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New Type of Star Can Emerge From Inside Black Holes, Say Cosmologists

Posted by Soulskill on from the cross-black-holes-off-your-list-of-good-hiding-places dept.

KentuckyFC writes "Black holes form when a large star runs out of fuel and collapses under its own weight. Since there is no known force that can stop this collapse, astrophysicists have always assumed that it forms a singularity, a region of space that is infinitely dense. Now cosmologists think quantum gravity might prevent this complete collapse after all. They say that the same force that stops an electron spiraling into a nucleus might also cause the collapsing star to 'bounce' at scales of around 10^-14cm. They're calling this new state a 'Planck star' and say its lifetime would match that of the black hole itself as it evaporates. That raises the possibility that the shrinking event horizon would eventually meet the expanding Planck star, which emerges with a sudden blast of gamma rays. That radiation would allow any information trapped in the black hole to escape, solving the infamous information paradox. If they're right, these gamma rays may already have been detected by space-based telescopes meaning that the evidence is already there for any enterprising astronomer to tease apart."

107 of 193 comments (clear)

  1. Its own weight? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Black holes form when a large star runs out of fuel and collapses under its own weight

    Isn't actually it's own gravity? The weight would increase with the gravity, doesn't it?

    1. Re:Its own weight? by suutar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Sort of yes. "...under the force of its own gravitational attraction" would be more precise, I think. Gravity is a force, and weight is the measure of the gravitational force on a particular item. But it's common to think of weight as the force of gravitational attraction itself, and it's shorter to type.

      And yes, as it collapses and the distance from particle A to the center of mass of the rest of the star decreases, the force of gravitational attraction (weight) increases.

    2. Re:Its own weight? by camperdave · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't get black hole evaporation. Suppose a proton/anti-proton pair gets created at the event horizon and the proton falls in. Hasn't the mass of the black hole increased by one proton? If the anti-proton falls in, it will meet another proton and annihilate it (assuming conditions within the black hole still allow this), but with no way for the energy to escape, isn't it the same as increasing by the mass of the anti-proton (which is the same as a proton)?

      I propose we try the experiment with whomever is supporting this switch to Beta.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    3. Re:Its own weight? by suutar · · Score: 4, Informative

      As I understand it, that's almost exactly it. The catch is that the universe is now 2 protons heavier than it was, and it can't keep them. "Normally" the proton and antiproton would recombine and annihilate and it would be gone, but now that they're separated that can't happen. So the black hole's mass gets debited 2 proton masses. So the final result is that the hole is down 1 proton mass and the rest of the universe is up 1 proton mass.

    4. Re:Its own weight? by camperdave · · Score: 1

      But how can the black hole's mass go down when particles are being added to it?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    5. Re:Its own weight? by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      As a matter of fact, yes. They appear and disappear all the time.

      Slashdot, for its turn can only go poof once, and it trying very hard to do exactly that...

      --
      Rethinking email
    6. Re:Its own weight? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Funny

      But how can the black hole's mass go down when particles are being added to it?

      Because the mass of that particle, and the particle that escaped, came from the black hole. So there is a net loss of mass. But the probability of this happening is so low that an immense number of eons are needed to evaporate a black hole, and the time required goes up with the cube of the mass. A solar mass black hole may take approx 10^66 years to evaporate. That is because its gravity sucks almost as hard as Slashdot Beta.

    7. Re:Its own weight? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't get black hole evaporation. Suppose a proton/anti-proton pair gets created at the event horizon and the proton falls in. Hasn't the mass of the black hole increased by one proton? If the anti-proton falls in, it will meet another proton and annihilate it (assuming conditions within the black hole still allow this), but with no way for the energy to escape, isn't it the same as increasing by the mass of the anti-proton (which is the same as a proton)?

      That's one interpretation of the effect. The part that you're missing is what those virtual pairs represent. Quantum mechanics allow for the violation of energy conservation laws, as long as the violation doesn't last long enough for it to measured (it doesn't matter if it's measured or not, it matters whether it happens during a time period in which it would be possible to measure it). Virtual particles pop in out of nothing, so suddenly you have extra energy in the universe. Then they annihilate and disappear again before it would be possible to measure their presence. However, in this case, one of them fell into the black hole, the other didn't, so now, from your perspective outside the black hole, you have a brand new particle and therefore extra energy and mass in the universe out of nothing. In order for that to be possible, from your perspective you'd have to witness the other particle as having negative energy. So the particle falling in to the black hole isn't a normal particle, it's a particle made up of negative energy.

      It's really hard to visualize that, so luckily there's another interpretation of the same effect that might be easier to swallow. The two virtual particles form inside the event horizon, using energy from inside the event horizon. If they're close enough to the horizon, one of them has a probability of leaving the event horizon through quantum tunneling. I always thought it was easier to visualize this interpretation.

    8. Re:Its own weight? by nanospook · · Score: 2

      However we describe it's actions, we really don't know what gravity is do we? It's not really explained.

      --
      Have you fscked your local propeller head today?
    9. Re:Its own weight? by camperdave · · Score: 2

      Because the mass of that particle, and the particle that escaped, came from the black hole.

      No. The particle and antiparticle came from a vacuum fluctuation occurring at the event horizon.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    10. Re:Its own weight? by suutar · · Score: 1

      well, both the proton and antiproton have mass, but in a sense, they have a sum of zero energy (since they came out of nothing, they add up to nothing). So one of them gets to have negative energy, and it's the one the black hole ate (otherwise you have a negative-energy proton floating around, which gets weird). So it's adding negative energy to a positive mass and winding up with a smaller positive mass.

      The wikipedia article on Hawking Radiation can probably explain it better than me; I'm about at the limit of my understanding.

    11. Re:Its own weight? by pantaril · · Score: 1

      But how can the black hole's mass go down when particles are being added to it?

      Pair of virtual particles is created on the event horizon of black hole. One particles falls into the black hole, other escapes it. Total energy of the virtual pair must be conserved. The particle that escapes the black hole has positive energy, so the other particle must have equal but negative energy. When negative energy is added to the blackhole, it loses some mass because energy = mass.

    12. Re:Its own weight? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      > Isn't actually it's own gravity?

      No, because that sentence doesn't make any sense.

      I'd wager up to ten of Her Majesty's finest pounds that the flapwart who designed slashdot beta can't use apostrophe's right either.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    13. Re:Its own weight? by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Obviously it's not the mass that composes the negative energy. It is whatever makes the particle the "anti-" of the other: spin, charge, what have you.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    14. Re:Its own weight? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      But how can the black hole's mass go down when particles are being added to it?

      ShanghaiBill answered you :

      Because the mass of that particle, and the particle that escaped, came from the black hole.

      , but you still didn't get it, because ShanghaiBill missed an important part of the explanation.

      The energy to create the pair of particles came from the potential energy of the strained space time in which the black hole is embedded.

      It is a zero-sum game : two particle's worth of energy came from the virtual background to make the original particles ; the black hole swallowed one of the particles and the other escaped to infinity (it had to have some kinetic energy to do this, but that's part of the sum) ; the virtual background then reclaimed the energy debt from the gravitationally strained space time of the black hole, which reduced the gravitational mass of the black hole by the mass of two particles (plus an appropriate amount of energy for the kinetic energy).

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  2. In before the Fuck Beta Burst by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So decaying black holes might be another source of gamma ray bursts? Interesting hypothesis. I suppose this would permit a big old star to bounce between being a black hole and a neutron star, depending on the rate of incoming material.

    So, do I have to point out the obvious that the /. beta is horribly user-hostile to keep this from getting modded -1 insightful?

    1. Re:In before the Fuck Beta Burst by i+kan+reed · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, you do. Beta is terrible and ignoring it clearly isn't making it go away.,

    2. Re:In before the Fuck Beta Burst by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So, do I have to point out the obvious that the /. beta is horribly user-hostile to keep this from getting modded -1 insightful?

      Yes. I've been spending points only on upmodding BETA SUCKS, but it looks like other mods have been negatively modding non BETA SUCKS comments.

      -Vel

    3. Re:In before the Fuck Beta Burst by egcagrac0 · · Score: 1

      I suppose this would permit a big old star to bounce between being a black hole and a neutron star

      I think they call this "doing the neutron dance".

    4. Re:In before the Fuck Beta Burst by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Neither will complaining about it.

      Which come to think of it, is a lot like branches of the government, actually.

      --
      File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
    5. Re:In before the Fuck Beta Burst by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      No clearly, only an effective boycott will work. We'll see if we succeed in organizing one.

    6. Re:In before the Fuck Beta Burst by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      Not really complaining, more threatening: if that abomination goes live, I'm out.

      I can't threaten the governemnt the same way.

      --
      Rethinking email
    7. Re:In before the Fuck Beta Burst by boristhespider · · Score: 1

      Certainly all this belly-aching means I see no point coming onto the comments pages anymore.

    8. Re:In before the Fuck Beta Burst by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      It'll all get better when Beta goes away.

    9. Re:In before the Fuck Beta Burst by lgw · · Score: 1

      See, this is what makes Slashdot cool: we'll turn even a Beta whine fest into a pro/anti libertarian fight. Well, we used to, before Beta came along and made /. a vast empty wilderness.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    10. Re:In before the Fuck Beta Burst by mark-t · · Score: 1

      You are perfectly welcome to threaten the government that you'll leave if they don't change... but it will accomplish about as much.

      --
      File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
    11. Re:In before the Fuck Beta Burst by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Undoubtedly... but why sabatoge even the classic experience for everybody while it lasts with fuck beta posts in every single story?

      Quite frankly, if they weren't frequently so lengthy... say, only one or two lines, with a link to a more detailed message embedded within, I wouldn't really care or mind them... but many of these anti-beta posts take up almost a full screen of real-estate in classic mode as they are getting modded up by supporters of the notion, and just plain get in the way of actually being just able to freaking use the site the way it was intended.

      It's an online version of a temper tantrum. And doesn't impress anyone with even a modicum of discernment. At best, all such rantings do is make it harder for people who don't like beta and might actually have genuinely constructive things to say to be heard, because they can get lumped in with the spammers.

      --
      File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
  3. Twitter Bootstrap event horizon by avandesande · · Score: 2, Insightful

    .... in Slashdot Beta

    --
    love is just extroverted narcissism
  4. Re:Car analogy time by OzPeter · · Score: 2

    Car analogy time:
    I have gotten rid of vehicles that sucked less than the Slashdot beta. Seriously even that '85 Bronco II where everything was rusty, none of the body panels matched, and that had bad compression on the #5 cylinder sucked less than beta.slashdot.org.

    Bronco's never run well

    --
    I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
  5. Information paradox? by gstoddart · · Score: 2, Interesting

    OK, so I understand (vaguely) that this essentially means stuff goes in but doesn't come out.

    But if this Planck star bursts forth from a black hole, is any 'information' in a meaningful sense coming back out? Or is the collection of random bits which we defined as 'information' coming back out just a bunch of meaningless noise?

    It sounds more like "stuff comes back out, but will have been so mangled by the process that it isn't, strictly speaking, what we'd call 'information'".

    I've never been really clear on what is meant by "information" in this context -- it's not like you can figure out that the burst of gamma radiation corresponds to anything specific, it's just a burst of gamma radiation (and whatever else comes out).

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:Information paradox? by DeadDecoy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think information is used in it's most abstract sense. Any particle or wave signals that that approach the black hole get consumed. I.e. when we look at it, we see nothing because light is absorbed. I'm probably wrong, though, and someone who studies the topic might be more apt at providing an explanation. Personally, I wonder what this means in terms of the second law of thermodynamics. When a black hole consumes energy and releases a Planck star, do either events reduce the entropy of the system?

    2. Re:Information paradox? by prgrmr · · Score: 1

      The 2nd law isn't violated as whatever falls into the black hole either becomes part of the singularity/Plank star, or is expelled during the transition via Hawking radiation. Your question on entropy doesn't make sense, as the cosmologists are postulating that the Plank star *is* the black hole.

    3. Re:Information paradox? by lgw · · Score: 1

      A black hole represents the maximum possible entropy for a fuck beta of that radius. Unless the Plank star is much much larger, and still has relatively high fuck beta, there would be a reduction in entropy in the fuck beta. However, reductions in entropy can happen "locally" when enough energy is fed into the fuck beta, so if this happens because of a lot of incoming energy, it would makes sense - much like fuck beta.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  6. Re:I'm wondering... by lvxferre · · Score: 1

    Meanwhile, please bring this fight over to reddit where the Slashdot moderators have no influence:

    I'm calling some /g/entlemen instead.

    --
    Nerdy news for your nerdy needs? http://www.soylentnews.org Soylent News is people!
  7. Re:The only thing that will emerge... by TigerPlish · · Score: 1

    Y te digo algo mas...

    Beta is as useless as Slashot Mobile. I quit using that to read, even tho I enjoyed reading slash on the go. But not anymore.

    And soon, I guess I won't be here at all. because fuck beta.

    Nothing of value will be lost. Users will probably create a fork / clone / workalike, and Dice will have a nice shiny site with diddly squat for content. At best, it'll be like CNN's coments.

    Slashdot, it was swank knowin' ya. Don't look now, but I think that stink behind you is the Grim Reaper come to collect you.

    --
    The "Civilized World" jumped the shark ca. 1973.
  8. Re:Beta-ized Summary by Sez+Zero · · Score: 1

    "That raises the possibility that the shrinking readership would eventually meet the expanding Beta suckitude, which emerges with a sudden blast of "fuck beta" comments. That black would allow any insightful commentary trapped in the black hole to escape, solving the infamous -1 Insightful paradox."

  9. Re:Beta Sucks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Have they been talking to the Windows 8 guys????
    Can everyone fuck up every UI???

  10. Re:Black hole by carlos92 · · Score: 1

    Boycott ... and EXODUS.

  11. What the TFS means: by TigerPlish · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What TFS really means is that out of the suck generated by Beta, a new site will emerge, free from corporate cocksuckery.

    Beta: Only slightly better than Facetwat.

    --
    The "Civilized World" jumped the shark ca. 1973.
  12. Re:Beta Sucks! by Ben4jammin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I usually try to stay on-topic, but this is a deserved exception.

    I logged in, perused some of my old comments just for nostalgia and will be logging out for at least the remainder of the proposed boycott period.

    I just wanted to say that it has been awesome being part of the Slashdot community. You guys are awesome. I have lost track of how much I have learned about different topics that I never would have learned were it not for participating in Slashdot discussions.

    I hope to see you on the other side...with Beta existing only as a memory of an epic fail.

  13. Re:Car analogy time by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1, Funny

    Car analogy time:
    I have gotten rid of vehicles that sucked less than the Slashdot beta. Seriously even that '85 Bronco II where everything was rusty, none of the body panels matched, and that had bad compression on the #5 cylinder sucked less than beta.slashdot.org.

    Bronco's never run well

    Not since 1994, anyway.

    Remember - if the glove doesn't fit, Slashdot Beta still sucks.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  14. What I don't get... by Vermonter · · Score: 1

    What I don't get is why people who are experts in cosmetics are talking about stars...

  15. Re:Car analogy time by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

    They can but it requires making what one of my buddies called the "weak mighty bronco". Take a Bronco II and stuff in a Ford 460 with an appropriate manual transmission and some better axles and they they are great.

    --
    Time to offend someone
  16. Beta solved the information paradox by cheese_boy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Slashdot's Beta has proved that it is possible for information to be sucked in and never get out.

    WTF is up with article titles that only the first 3 words are visible because of the huge font used?

    Slashdot beta - the artificial blackhole created by Dice that Slashdot will be sucked into

    1. Re:Beta solved the information paradox by Teun · · Score: 1
      Weird, I've now seen quite a few comments about a huge font but on this computer (Kubuntu with Firefox) I don't see much difference between the old and new re. fonts, maybe it's Windows/IE thing?

      As a matter of fact, I see about the same amount of information per page even though it seems the beta pages are rather empty.

      The rest of the beta is a different discussion, the lack of a proper time stamp, the missing links to previous posts etc.

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
  17. Re:I'm wondering... by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Nope. They think it sucks balls, too.

  18. Re:BETA SUCK by fisted · · Score: 1

    that was a nice story. did they died?

    --
    CLI paste? paste.pr0.tips!
  19. 10^-14cm by CurryCamel · · Score: 1

    I really like Slashot Beta. Not only does it look & feel nicer, but all stupid units of measure are automatically converted to SI units.

    That's 100 am.

  20. Gamma Ray Bursts, eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "the shrinking event horizon would eventually meet the expanding Planck star, which emerges with a sudden blast of gamma rays"

    So, this could be the source of Gamma Ray Bursts?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_ray_burst

  21. New Slashdot Beta is a black hole... by CoolHnd30 · · Score: 1

    Fuck the Black Hole!!!

  22. Re:Beta Sucks! by Random2 · · Score: 1

    You need to add "br" tags (replacing " with >'s) for the newlines.

    --
    "Our goal each year should be to increase the number of goals we set for ourselves!"
  23. Re:I'm wondering... by dysmal · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...if a star can emerge from Slashdot Beta. That shit is a black hole of user interface hell.

    There is no gravity. BETA just sucks that hard!

  24. Re:Black hole by olsmeister · · Score: 1

    I'll be gone if forced into Slashbeta. At least once I figure out where the consensus is for a good alternative.

  25. Cosmologists and Dice by sexconker · · Score: 2

    Neither know shit, they just throw shit at the wall and hope something sticks when someone finally gets around to testing.
    For Dice, that testing will come when they force me to use the shitty new beta version of the site. Spoiler: I won't stick around.

    Fuck beta. Fuck Dice.

  26. Beta problem is a financial one by mu51c10rd · · Score: 5, Informative

    Dice released their 4th quarter filing...and it does not cast Slashdot in a good light:


    Slashdot Media was acquired to provide content and services that are important to technology professionals in their everyday work lives and to leverage that reach into the global technology community benefiting user engagement on the Dice.com site. The expected benefits have started to be realized at Dice.com. However, advertising revenue has declined over the past year and there is no improvement expected in the future financial performance of Slashdot Media's underlying advertising business. Therefore, $7.2 million of intangible assets and $6.3 million of goodwill related to Slashdot Media were reduced to zero.

    Looks like running AdBlock on Slashdot and turning off ads may soon be the cause of their demise...

    1. Re:Beta problem is a financial one by PIBM · · Score: 1

      I was having a hard time believing him; but here`s the release:

      http://www.diceholdingsinc.com...

    2. Re:Beta problem is a financial one by Teun · · Score: 1
      I haven't seen the quoted article but can very much believe the story.

      Slashdot patrons are a very discerning kind of consumer, they're not going to put up with advertisers flogging bullshit.
      This obviously makes it hard for the typical Ad-agency boy to figure out what will pay the bills.

      Over many years of internet use I've acquired a blind eye for advertisements and am perfectly capable of ignoring them without the use of adblocks, the exception is Flash, it's generally uncalled for and usually in bad taste but there's no need to block it, the client is a plug-in malware magnet and I've chosen to not install it.

      Because I greatly appreciate the services rendered by Slashdot I've always declined the kind offer to switch off advertising.

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    3. Re:Beta problem is a financial one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This whole topic is becoming my favorite Slashdot topic ever. Blackhole devolving into Blackbeta.

      I was assaulted by the Beta interface when I accessed the site yesterday. I have not logged on in years and may be leaving soon if Beta is "Teh Futr".

      The comment quoted from the 4th Quarter filing is quite interesting because of the dichotomy between the stated mission of the Slashdot mission and management's expectations. A 13.5 million dollar hit on the balance sheet is a significant evaluation of the value the suits put on this audience. There only option "make money, make money, make money" is to develop a new audience by driving out "technology professionals" and replacing them with something else.

      Goodby and thanks for all the fish?

    4. Re:Beta problem is a financial one by sandytaru · · Score: 1

      PC Magazine did this to me too. I deleted my bookmark. Thankfully, I haven't been assaulted by the Beta Star just yet.

      --
      Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    5. Re:Beta problem is a financial one by mu51c10rd · · Score: 1

      Nice to know we as a community were worth 13.5 million as an intangible asset. However, now we are valued at 0...so we are now worthless to Dice.

    6. Re:Beta problem is a financial one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The never-ending story.

      Popular website gets known for its high, loyal, repeat traffic count, perhaps needs funding to maintain services due to increasing demand. Investors start to take notice - MBA marketing types equate loyal, repeat traffic with high Nielsen ratings of old media, convince big holding company to invest $$$ based on business plan for "leveraging" loyal, repeat traffic to site to sell other goods/services (MBA-speak: "monetization"). Doesn't work out, popular website not meeting projected profit goals. Loyal, repeat traffic not interested in any goods/services, not interested in being "leveraged", only interested in doing what they were doing (usually having something to do with "fun") before big holding company stepped in. MBA marketing types make last ditch effort to save face by reworking popular website, particularly toward goal of increasing "leverage" toward selling other goods/services (i.e., "monetization"). Loyal, repeat traffic revolts due to lack of "fun" and contempt for other goods/services (i.e., "monetization" at the expense of "fun"). MBA marketing types hold their ground to save face, changes are made permanent. Loyal, repeat traffic drops off. Popular website shows greater and greater losses to the big holding company. MBA marketing types sense the ax falling, jump ship. New MBA's advise big holding company to cut losses (i.e., "restructure"), shut down formerly popular website, but maintain all ownership to IP rights related to formerly popular website (you know, just in case it might be worth something some day). Loyal, repeat traffic cast adrift. Formerly popular website reduced to nostalgic memory of when web was fun. World less fun.

      and repeat for each and every cool thing that ever became popular simply due to being fun, capsized by the weight of disinterested investors with uninformed, unrealistic profit expectations.

    7. Re:Beta problem is a financial one by jafac · · Score: 1

      I don't turn off ads, and I whitelist slashdot.

      But that will change if this beta plan goes through.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    8. Re:Beta problem is a financial one by FatLittleMonkey · · Score: 1

      Looks like running AdBlock on Slashdot and turning off ads may soon be the cause of their demise

      So instead of just hosting their own ads, their solution is to set fire to their own hair?

      --
      Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
    9. Re:Beta problem is a financial one by steamraven · · Score: 1

      Of course, they could just do better ads:
      1. No Flash / Javascript
      2. Products that matter

  27. CMDRTACO WHY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Mr Malda, this site was once your little baby that you ran from your dorm. You've moved on to other things. We miss you but that's fine we can understand.

    But why couldn't you have left it in better hands? Why not a fucking not for profit Slashdot foundation. Dice is a fucking Answers.com wannabe. They're fucking butchering Slashdot.

    DOWN WITH BETA

  28. Re:FUCK BETA by Bearhouse · · Score: 2

    And when they take that away, as they surely will, what will those who detest "beta" do?
    Fuck beta, and fuck stupid, cowardly cunts like you.

  29. I'm going to use my deductive reasoning here... by Guy+From+V · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And say I think that most of the community thinks Slashdot Beta sucks.

    1. Re:I'm going to use my deductive reasoning here... by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      And say I think that most of the community thinks Slashdot Beta sucks.

      You can't tell that, since the vast majority of beta rants are by ACs. It could be the work of simply a small group. OTOH, if the people actually used their nicknames when posting, it might be possible to tell how many users are displeased.

      Anonymous tips may be useful for the police, but in just about every other instance, they are ignored because they can't be validated or followed up with. Likewise with AC rants here.

  30. I'll believe it when I see it! by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

    Oh, wait, it's in a black hole.

  31. Re:In memory of the old slashdot by Teun · · Score: 2
    I'm afraid you're double on topic, both for the article and the beta way of presenting it...

    I've got the two versions in adjacent tabs and they don't even have the same comments!
    As if two separate databases are being used.

    --
    "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
  32. Re:The only thing that will emerge... by Teun · · Score: 1

    At least with the mobile version you can easily switch to the regular one, well at least we still can.

    --
    "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
  33. Re:Car analogy time by camperdave · · Score: 1

    Bronco's never run well

    Well, not compared to Seahawks, apparently. Kind of like how Classic runs rings around Beta.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  34. No by mbone · · Score: 1

    If they're right, these gamma rays may already have been detected by space-based telescopes meaning that the evidence is already there for any enterprising astronomer to tease apart.

    .

    I doubt they said that, and whether they did or not the data is not there for any enterprising astronomer to tease out.

    Any black hole of any realistic mass (say, 2.5 Solar masses and up) will take much, much longer than the current duration of our universe to evaporate. So, maybe this will happen, maybe not, but it for sure hasn't happened yet. Come back in 10^100 years and let's talk,

    1. Re:No by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      Well first, they clearly state that these ARE NOT blackholes, they just look like them from the outside.
      Secondly, there are lots of blackholes about that are of many different sizes, including microscopic ones.
      Thirdly, it doesn't need to entirely evaporate, it just needs to shrink to the point that the event horizon meets the star.
      Lastly they did, in fact, make that statement if you read the article.

    2. Re:No by mbone · · Score: 1

      Yes, I have now read the article, and they were indeed talking about small primordial black holes. The trouble with that is

      - there is no evidence that any black hole with a mass good evidence that smaller primordial black holes do not exist

      I stand by my statement. There is no harm in pointing out the theoretical possibility, but in reality this is not going to be found buried in some the data for some astronomical explosion.

    3. Re:No by mbone · · Score: 1

      Sorry, without the typo

      Yes, I have now read the article, and they were indeed talking about small primordial black holes. The trouble with that is

      - there is no evidence that any black hole with a mass less than 2 solar masses exists.
      - there is no mechanism to form small black holes except primordially
      - there is good evidence that smaller primordial black holes do not exist

      I stand by my statement. There is no harm in pointing out the theoretical possibility, but in reality this is not going to be found buried in some the data for some astronomical explosion.

  35. De finibus by tepples · · Score: 1

    Yes, M.T. Cicero is dead. And if Slashdot keeps pushing this beta despite complaints that the beta is pain for its own sake (dolorem ipsum dolor), Slashdot will itself go as dark as a black hole.

  36. Re:Dumb question I know... by mbone · · Score: 1

    The idea is that quantum gravity stops the singularity from forming. It would still look like a black hole from the outside, for at least 10^100 years or so.

    Quick elimination round :

    Is it like a regular star? No
    Does this mean that we won't eventually end up with a universe full of black holes? No (but it would affect how these BH evaporate).
    Does this mean that there matter can actually escape from a black hole - yes, in their theory
    and that there are no white holes? - not unless you view the end explosion as a white hole

    Bonus question :
    What this does for wormholes is unclear. They need exotic matter to survive; maybe that could be done on the quantum gravity level

  37. BETA Boycott 2/7/2014 by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    If you hate Beta, DO NOT VISIT Slashdot on 2/7!!

    How you you show them Beta sucks? You drop their ad impressions!
    Keep Classic/Fix Beta, or we walk.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  38. Test of text rendering Slashdot Beta by oRCAD+Monkey · · Score: 1, Informative

    HI. I posted this to see what it would look like on the beta website.. If they call it beta isn't it supposed to be working? maybe they will fix Slashdot Beta and everyone will be happy again. Can you see this? I can't. What is wrong? Is this why they call it beta? I hope someone will be able to fix this because I am not happy it is not working. Maybe after the beta test is over it will work. It sure doesn't work now. I am getting even sadder. It seems to work on the old site but the beta site is not very good and is making me sad. sad sad sad. I am not very happy when Slashdot makes me very sad. What will happen to me when classic is GONE!!! I will try posting this on YouTube PLEASE HELP ME!!!!! A little history of Slashdot courtesy of Wikipedia. What it was before It was destroyed by Beta. I tried posting this before but could not see it with beta. What am I doing wrong? I guess I will have to keep on trying until I can read it. Maybe that is why they call it beta. I am sure they will fix everything and everyone will be happy again. Tell me if you can read this. I am really upset that I can not see my own posts Maybe that is why they call it beta. I am sure they will fix everything and everyone will be happy again. Can you see this? I can't. What is wrong? Is this why they call it beta? I hope someone will be able to fix this because I am not happy it is not working. Maybe after the beta test is over it will work. It sure doesn't work now. I am getting even sadder.PLEASE HELP ME!!!!! The origins of the site now known as Slashdot date back to July 1997 when Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda started a personal website called Chips & Dips, which featured a single "rant" each day about something that interested him – typically something to do with Linux or open-source software. At the time, Malda was a student at Hope College in Holland, Michigan, majoring in computer science. The site became Slashdot in September 1997 under the slogan "News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters," and quickly became a hotspot on the Web for news and information of interest to computer geeks.[4] The name "Slashdot" came from a somewhat "obnoxious parody of a URL" – when Malda registered the domain, he desired to make a name that was "silly and unpronounceable" – try pronouncing out, "h-t-t-p-colon-slash-slash-slashdot-dot-org".[5] By June 1998 the site was seeing as many as 100,000 page views per day and advertisers began to take notice.[4] By December 1998, Slashdot had net revenues of $18,000, yet its Internet profile was higher, and revenues were expected to increase. On June 29, 1999, the site was sold to Linux megasite Andover.net for $1.5 million in cash and $7 million in Andover stock at the IPO price. Part of the deal was contingent upon the continued employment of Rob Malda and Jeff Bates and on "the achievement of certain milestones". With the acquisition of Slashdot, Andover.net could now advertise itself as "the leading Linux/Open Source destination on the Internet".[6][7] Andover.net eventually merged with VA Linux on February 3, 2000,[8] which changed its name to SourceForge, Inc. on May 24, 2007, and became Geeknet, Inc. on November 4, 2009.[9] Slashdot's 10,000th article was posted after two and a half years on February 24, 2000,[10] and the 100,000th article was posted on December 11, 2009 after 12 years online.[11] During the first 12 years, the most active story with the most responses posted was the post-2004 US Presidential Election article "Kerry Concedes Election To Bush" with 5,687 posts. This followed the creation of a new article section, politics.slashdot.org, created at the start of the 2004 election on September 7, 2004.[12] Many of the most popular stories are political, with "Strike on Iraq" (March 19, 2003) the second-most-active article and "Barack Obama Wins US Presidency" (November 5, 2008) the third-most-active. The rest of the 10 most active articles are an article announcing the 2005 London bombings, and several articles about Evolution vs. Intelligent Design, Saddam Hussein's capture, and Fahr

    1. Re: Test of text rendering Slashdot Beta by Teun · · Score: 1
      The text shows for me but no formatting what-so-ever.

      And btw, the header remained empty until I copied and pasted the content, including the Re: This must be a badly labelled Alpha :)

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    2. Re: Test of text rendering Slashdot Beta by oRCAD+Monkey · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the help, I hope the get this fixed and everyone will be happy again

  39. Re:cm by master5o1 · · Score: 1

    Because they can't go under the 10^-14 threshold. If they stated 10^-16m then it would have caused a whole bunch of problems.

    --
    signature is pants
  40. Re:Beta Sucks! by toshikodo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm posting this from Opera 12. I think that tells you what I think of /. Beta.

    --
    No volcanos here
  41. Agreed. SlashdotBeta must die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Normal, classic, Slashdot *works*. It requires no makeover.

    Please make Beta stop.

  42. Re:I'm wondering... by egcagrac0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If there is a force that can prevent the total collapse of a star into a singularity, there is hope that we can harness such power to escape from beta...

  43. Re:To all the beta haters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Why? Do you somehow think having a login makes comments better? Perhaps you want to show how your new meta-mod system is way better than the one used here for nearly 15 years?

    Want a *real* rant against beta? Aside from the broken meta-moderation and that existing one works decently? How about the fact it now wastes nearly 1/4th of the horizontal space. Comment roll up is now gone. Do you dig thru 400 comments? The precious vertical space is wasted by taller fonts.

    Look the slashdot system is designed so you can skim and pick and choose. The new beta breaks that by using a font at least 4pt bigger and enough whitespace to drive a truck thru.

    It looks pretty. But you are saying a site read by technical people want pretty, and screw the usability. There is a *reason* windows 8.x failed. It looks *very* pretty. Its usability stinks. They are making the exact same mistake MS made last year with windows 8. Their user base is letting them know it. SD could have made a better site. But instead decided to ignore 15 years of usability for the latest fad in web2.0.

    SD only has one thing above all the other news aggregation sites out there. Its user base. Ignore that at your peril. I sure wouldnt want to be known as the guy who screwed up slashdot. That would be career poison.

    I stopped posting with my real user long ago when I picked up a stalker, I even know the password. I got tired of talking about nuclear proliferation on every topic.

  44. Slashdot Beta Boycott by mccotter · · Score: 1

    Unplugging 2/10-2/17

    1. Re:Slashdot Beta Boycott by Lieutenant_Dan · · Score: 1

      Same here.

      --
      Wearing pants should always be optional.
  45. Trashdot Beta by Mister+Liberty · · Score: 1

    To be paradoxical: Beta looks less 'trashy', as if everything is moderated,
    as if there's 'no drive by posting' anymore, as if the NSA is super-super-
    supermoderator, and we're al thinking of the kids right now.

    Beta Sucks? Beta Kills!

  46. because by Ed_1024 · · Score: 1

    "When a black hole consumes energy and releases a Planck star, do either events reduce the entropy of the system?"

    Probably when the Planck star re-emerges, back into the observable universe, like it's never been away, entropy is fuck beta conserved. Having just read the Wikipedia article (I'm an expert now) on the 2nd law of thermodynamics, there's an interesting fuck beta bit about gravitational systems being fuck beta different from normal ones in that the more fuck beta massive a black fuck beta hole becomes, the lower it's fuck beta temperature, so fuck beta fuck beta fuck beta?

  47. Bloody cosmologists by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

    First black holes swallow everything. Then they don't. Then Professor Wheels says they don't even exist. Now they're shitting out stars!

    astrophysicists have always assumed that it forms a singularity, a region of space that is infinitely dense. Now cosmologists think quantum gravity might prevent this complete collapse after all.

    I've been wondering if this (singularities not actually forming because some of unknown process) might be the case for years, but only because I found singularities a freaky concept.

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  48. Re:Dumb question I know... by fermion · · Score: 1
    I don't know if this is what they mean, but here is my guess.

    Max Plank was the person who stated that energy might be quantized. That mean that energy cannot just appear in any quantity, but must exist in multiples of a specific quantity, E=hv, where h is Planks constant, and indicates that fundemental minimum energy. This was a desperate act to solve a possible problem and was really a change in direction for Planck. It was one of those mathematical things where one takes a logical step and conclusions are there, as distasteful as they might be. In any case, 100 years of experiments have shown quantization models the universe well. One of the first problems in physics solved by this 'quantum mechanics' was the ultraviolet catastrophe, in which it was predicted that an Easy-Bake oven would produce infinite energy, something that is experimentally not the case. One we had energy quantized, and the energy mas relationship, and De Broglie's wavelength, everything began to have a 'Planck' effect. There is a smallest time that it makes sense to talk about called the Planck time. There is a smallest distance that be differentiated, can the Planck length. All times and distances are multiples of these. So one assumes that a Planck Star is simply the smallest volume that one can have. This is significant because we are no postulating that mass cannot be compressed indefinitely to a singularity. This is analogous to Einsteins notion that we cannot go at infinite speeds, something that Newtonian Mechanics did not rule out, or that we cannot have infinite energies, something that Classical E&M did not rule out. One problem with Relativity, the science that gave us infinite black holes is that when combined with Quantum Mechanics it gave us lots of infinities, which great minds like Hawkings allegedly worked out. If there is a Plank star, then there is no longer an infinite singularity. The density will be very very big, but not infinite. And information will not be lost, which is good from a classical thermodynamics point of view. Also, to the people who Beta, we get it. Everyone knows beta sucks. Maybe it will destroy /. But who cares. Stop wasting everyones time with your whining. Go out and find someone to cuddle.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  49. Re:Seen them already??? by rossdee · · Score: 1

    "The event horizon is not a special place, when you are close by, it looks just like any other close by place."

    Of course in practical terms you can't stay alive near the event horizon due to the radiation from matter colliding in the accretion disk and the tidal effects.
    (unless you use a galactic center supermassive black hole thats not feeding.

    Obtopic Beta : WTF is Dice anyway. I know there used to be a C compiler by that name back in the days when Fred Fish was collecting Free software for the Amiga
    but I guess that has nothing to do with the current owners of Slashdot

  50. Electron crashing into the nucleus by manu0601 · · Score: 1

    TFA says:

    [the] force that stops an electron spiraling into a nucleus

    It suddently strikes me that I never wondered about it: what prevents the electron from crashing into the nucleus?

    1. Re:Electron crashing into the nucleus by As_I_Please · · Score: 1

      Mostly quantum mechanics. The fact that an electron can only exist at certain distances from the nucleus has to do with its wave properties. It's similar to how there is a minimum frequency that a guitar string can vibrate at due to its length, tension, and mass. Due to the forces and energies involved, there is a minimum distance that an electron can exist from a nucleus.

      However, sometimes that minimum distance lies inside the nucleus. The element mercury (among others) can capture one of its own inner electrons. A proton reacts with the electron to form a neutron and a neutrino. Mercury minus one proton is gold.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...

    2. Re:Electron crashing into the nucleus by manu0601 · · Score: 1

      I get it. Electron can crash into the kernel, but probability of its presence there for lower energy levels is low, hence it almost never happens.

  51. Re:I'm wondering... by donaldm · · Score: 1

    You'll pry classic from my cold dead hands.

    Nice off-topic comment If you don't like the Beta you don't have to use it.

    reddit This is a site which you think has a better layout than /. Beta how?

    If you want to be critical of the new Beta fine but make that constructive criticism not what you are doing now which is not insightful especially when you criticise and basically insult Slashdot moderators who have generously marked you as that. Sure some the moderators may not be happy with the changes and even myself had problems with the Beta reply system which required me to switch back to the Classic.

    On a good note at least you aren't swearing which allot of posters (mainly but not all AC's) appear to be doing so there is room for constructive dialogue.

    --
    There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
  52. Re:Seen them already??? by deadzaphod · · Score: 1

    The Dice that owns slashdot was originally a job listings site. The C compiler called Dice (http://www.binarydevotion.com/?p=76) was written by Matt Dillon, who now works on DragonflyBSD. No relation.

  53. ... let me make a beta analogy for you by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

    It's kind of like people who are experts in bland, content-ruining, low-contrast, lower-functionality websites are talking about /.:

    Nothing good comes of it.

    --
    You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
  54. I'm logged in... by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

    ... and the beta sucks.

    --
    You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
  55. Conservation of Energy. by qubex · · Score: 1

    Let’s take your scenario: a proton/anti-proton pair of virtual particles pops into existence from the quantum vacuum near the event horizon and the anti-proton spirals into the black hole, meaning that the proton no longer has it’s antiparticle to annihilate against. (Clearly we’re talking about energy in terms of mass-energy terms here.)

    OK, the original virtual-particle pair ‘borrowed’ energy from the vacuum; that debt must be paid back because the universe’s energy must be conserved. If the energy can no longer be ‘returned’ by annihilating the virtual particles, the ‘energy debt’ must be subtracted from the mass-energy of the black hole. This, essentially, is the process of Hawking radiation that causes a black hole to evaporate: it’s kind of like cosmic repo-men demanding dues from the black hole. The universe wants to be made whole and it gets it’s due from wherever it can. If the repo-men can’t find you and repossess your unpaid television, they annoy your old folks instead.

    Here’s where the quantum-information question arises: is there any ‘information’ contained in that debt repayment? The classical view says ‘no’: it’s just the right amount of mass-energy, but all other parameters are random (spin, charge, bla bla bla). Quantum mechanics cannot accept that and insists that the information must be expressed as energy radiating with exactly the right characteristics. As if the dollars extracted from your parents must also, in some sense, carry a hint of that TV you haven’t paid for.

    --
    "Place me in the company of those who seek Truth, but deliver me from those who believe to have found it."
  56. Re:Beta Sucks! by arobatino · · Score: 1

    We should boycott stories and only discuss the abomination that is Slashdot Beta until Dice abandons the project.

    Unfortunately, if they only care about ad revenue, and not comments, the only way to have an effect is to start using an ad blocker, and let them know why.

  57. STFU about beta already by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

    Waaah, they changed a bit of the user interface, the internet is ruined forever. Get a blog or something.

  58. Re:Car analogy time by Scarletdown · · Score: 1

    Car analogy time:
    I have gotten rid of vehicles that sucked less than the Slashdot beta. Seriously even that '85 Bronco II where everything was rusty, none of the body panels matched, and that had bad compression on the #5 cylinder sucked less than beta.slashdot.org.

    Bronco's never run well

    Not since 1994, anyway.

    Remember - if the glove doesn't fit, Slashdot Beta still sucks.

    And reaffirmed in 2014.

    --
    This space unintentionally left blank.
  59. Re:I'm wondering... by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

    Nice off-topic comment If you don't like the Beta you don't have to use it.

    Yet.

    --
    Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
  60. Re:I'm wondering... by lvxferre · · Score: 1

    A somewhat old comment gets from +4 Insightful to -1 Offtopic after being moderated Flamebait. In the matter of seconds.
    The messages about comment moderation pop up in the panel, then disappear after a F5.
    "Not suspicious at all."

    Dice, if you're trying to cull anti-Beta comments, at least pretend some honesty and do it transparently.

    Time to go to SoylentNews.

    --
    Nerdy news for your nerdy needs? http://www.soylentnews.org Soylent News is people!