Wozniak To Apple: Consider Building an Android Phone

snydeq writes "Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak has some advice for Apple CEO Tim Cook: consider offering a phone based on the rival Google Android platform. Speaking at the Apps World conference in San Francisco, Wozniak made the suggestion of an Apple Android device when responding to a question about the fate of the faltering BlackBerry platform, saying that BlackBerry should have built an Android phone, and that Apple could do so, too. 'BlackBerry's very sad for me,' Wozniak lamented. 'I think it's probably too late now' for an Android-based BlackBerry phone. Apple, Woz said, has had some lucky victories in the marketplace in the past decade, and BlackBerry's demise may provide a cautionary tale: 'There's nothing to keep Apple out of the Android market as a secondary phone market.'"

Comments

first

[maliqua]

fuck beta

Re:first

[AmiMoJo]

Indeed, fuck the beta site.

This could have been a good flame war, fun for all the family. Instead we have the beta site hanging over us, preventing half the fanbois from participating. Fuck the whole thing.

Re:first

[Anonymous Coward]

There are a lot of snarky comments in the “fuck beta” threads right now, and reading what little has been posted by soulskill, the admins actually think that they are being unfairly targeted by a mob mentality. This is a problem because the issues here will likely get managerial attention at Dice soon and if the executives see what looks like a bunch of juvenile shite in the comments, they are likely to buy into that false world view. If that happens, then Beta will be pushed through and Dice will think of themselves as victims of Anonymous or whatever.

For this reason, I wish to lead a call for all users to spend the time from now until the boycott on the 10th to repost this as soon as a new story is posted.

----------------------

Dice: Frankly, many of us want a new design, Classic is broken in so many ways. But beta is terrible, and this is what is wrong:

    * The value that Slashdot brings to its users is not in its articles. Frankly, the articles are terrible. The value that Slashdot provides is a discussion forum for self-selected nerds.

* As such, it is vital that you remember that the community is not just an audience, it is also your primary content creator.

    * Your new redesign does not allow the community to create (or even consume) content because:
                    - It makes it impossible to follow discussions in the comments sections. This is largely because of the max-width on window and the fact that of the space left over is taken up by a useless sidebar. The vertical spacing is also overdone.
                        - Slashdot has a fragile but effective moderation system. Your changes make it impossible for readers to leverage that system to read a high quality discussion and ignore the trolls.
                    - It disregards conventions of the community. UIDs matter. We’re nerds. We understand that you need to attract a younger audience, but for a lot of us (including the younguns) it is thrilling to see a post from somebody who has been there from the beginning.

    * In the last 24 hours Soulskill has bitterly commented that the community has been involved since October and that they also get emails supporting the new design; only the comments are an echo chamber. This comment demonstrates a deep incompetence in your development team. Soulskill should have been citing A-B testing numbers. A-B testing is cheap, easy and effective but instead you are taking stabs in the dark.

    * Your ability to attain user acceptance is dismal. A number of years ago, when Taco needed to modernize the site, he solicited the community for designs, and awarded the best designer and used that design. That is how you leverage a community and gain their acceptance: incorporate them in the design process. As a bonus, you won’t have utterly useless redesigns that will either ruin your website or have to be scrapped.

Re:first

[pr0ntab]

Commenters are doing such things, but it is foolish to think that management is going to throw good money after bad to redesign the site again when they've had a bad year with Slashdot Media financially. Their best bet is to simply turn it into another buzzfeed-like linkfarm and hope it generates revenue somehow (maybe sell it). So ... yeah. Let's just take her out back and put her out of her misery. Maybe some angel investor will come in and buy up the property and allow us to like support the site's maintenance via paypal. Maybe I'll grow another dick. :3

Re:first

[s.petry]

I have a hopefully coherent thread written here which could be a point of discussion assuming enough people want it on the front page as a stand alone article.

Re:first

[steveg]

Let me endorse this. It's a very well thought out opening post for a discussion, and both Slashdot staff and users could benefit from reading it.

Re: first

[Anonymous Coward]

If the admin does believe it unfair, then maybe a POLL in in order.

Re:first

[Velex]

Just voted it up.

Re:first

[ImdatS]

Well, I guess it will be time to move on when beta becomes standard and/or the only option.

Sad that I will lose my "Karma: Excellent", but beta is really bad - actually, horrible.

Dice: Please go back to the drawing board and just make the classic/current design slightly nicer/better - that's all we need. No new fancy UI which I can't really use.

It will be a sad day when I ask for deletion of my account - all those times I spent trying to write really informative comments - lost in time like tears in rain...

Re:first

[Nethemas the Great]

Is it time to brush up on our Japanese?

Re:first

[DocHoncho]

Has anyone seen this?

Took the tour, laughed at gems like "A redesign 16 years in the making ... you know it's going to be good." LOL.

"Intuitive menus" that feature prominently the desolate ghettos that are the new "Channels," SlashBI, SlashCloud, etc. The rest is just a randomly sorted list of "popular topics."

"Social media integration" Oh, they've got Facebook spy bugs now! Too bad those dumb little buttons are probably blocked by a fairly large contingent of the userbase has those sad little abominations blocked (bonus points for IPTables or HOSTS based solutions!) they seem to exist solely to provide free advertising for cheap, lazy entities and to vigorously ejaculate banal content around the internet, like a giant mug of frothy, steaming semen. For god's sake, the stopwatch on my phone has a share feature, so you can litter your facebook with "My time is 00:01:22."

To top it all off, the tour ends with the text "The New Slashdot. Newsier. Nerdier." What the hell is so nerdy about a rotten abortion of an update that, so far as I can tell, the community nearly unilaterally despises? Hey advertisers! Come pay to advertise on a site that just alienated it's user base!

Re:first

[Dcnjoe60]

Commenters are doing such things, but it is foolish to think that management is going to throw good money after bad to redesign the site again when they've had a bad year with Slashdot Media financially.

Their best bet is to simply turn it into another buzzfeed-like linkfarm and hope it generates revenue somehow (maybe sell it). So ... yeah. Let's just take her out back and put her out of her misery.

Maybe some angel investor will come in and buy up the property and allow us to like support the site's maintenance via paypal.

Maybe I'll grow another dick. :3

It's even more foolish to think that Dice is going to respond to a bunch of "Fuck Beta" comments.

Re:first

[Dcnjoe60]

I don't really care if they go back to classic or keep beta, I would like the numerous bugs in classic fixed, however, regardless of which interface is used.

Re:first

[ChunderDownunder]

Barrapunto.com if you speak Spanish.

Re:first

[LinuxIsGarbage]

Too bad those dumb little buttons are probably blocked by a fairly large contingent of the userbase has those sad little abominations blocked (bonus points for IPTables or HOSTS based solutions!)

HUSH! You'll get apk the HOSTS guy going. Bad enough that we have Beta Slashcott going on!
http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Re:first

[akh]

That site has to be a parody.

Re:first

[DocHoncho]

The sad truth is that it probably isn't.

ateB kcuF

[DaveRexel]

ateB kcuF ateB kcuF

Any way to disable beta?

[mestar]

Any way to disable beta?

Re:Any way to disable beta?

[tepples]

Universal Studios tried disabling beta, and it failed. But you can do better by searching (Ctrl+F) for the word "classic" near the bottom of this page.

Re:Any way to disable beta?

[TWX]

Ask for Babs...

Re:Any way to disable beta?

[QuantumLeaper]

Try http://slashdot.org/?nobeta=1 at least until they switch completely over. I don't know I what I did but currently I never see the Beta.

Re:Any way to disable beta?

[Dcnjoe60]

Any way to disable beta?

go to the bottom of the page and hit classic mode.

Re:Any way to disable beta?

[Dcnjoe60]

Try http://slashdot.org/?nobeta=1 at least until they switch completely over. I don't know I what I did but currently I never see the Beta.

Evidently it remembers your last use. If you are in beta and click the classic mode link, then the next time you come back you will still be in classic mode. At least for now.

Re:Any way to disable beta?

[Anonymous Coward]

Please post this to new articles if it hasn't been posted yet.

On February 5, 2014, Slashdot announced through a javascript popup that they are starting to "move in to" the new Slashdot Beta design.

Slashdot Beta is a trend-following attempt to give Slashdot a fresh look, an approach that has led to less space for text and an abandonment of the traditional Slashdot look. Much worse than that, Slashdot Beta fundamentally breaks the classic Slashdot discussion and moderation system.

If you haven't seen Slashdot Beta already, open this in a new tab. After seeing that, click here to return to classic Slashdot.

We should boycott stories and only discuss the abomination that is Slashdot Beta until Dice abandons the project.
We should boycott slashdot entirely during the week of Feb 10 to Feb 17 as part of the wider slashcott [slashdot.org]

Moderators - only spend mod points on comments that discuss Beta
Commentors - only discuss the Beta - Vote up the Fuck Beta stories

Keep this up for a few days and we may finally get the PHBs attention.

Discussion of Beta
Discussion of where to go if Beta goes live
Boycott Slashdot Feb 10-17

Re: Any way to disable beta?

[Anonymous Coward]

nope. go die.

Re:Any way to disable beta?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe someone could make a Greasemonkey script to convert beta to classic?

Re:Any way to disable beta?

[mark-t]

A boycott is not necessary... if the experience that slashdot presents is unusable, people who are bothered by it won't use it.

Simple.

Some will continue to use slashdot even after beta goes live and becomes the standard slashdot site.

I probably won't be one of them, once it becomes mandatory, unless some rather significant changes are made between now and then.

But that won't be because I'll be doing anything as formal as "boycotting", it will simply be because using slashdot won't be enjoyable anymore.

Slashdot readership to Dice

[gumpish]

Consider scrapping beta.

Re:Slashdot readership to Dice

[ElementOfDestruction]

... didn't you just begin a sentence on the subject line and finish it in the body?

Re:Slashdot readership to Dice

[ElementOfDestruction]

.... and then change your sig from "I automatically downmod all posts which begin in the subject line and finish in the body?"

Re:Slashdot readership to Dice

[gumpish]

Yeah, then I changed my sig :)

Re:Slashdot readership to Dice

[gumpish]

Well, I could make the case that "X to Y" is more like a mail header. "Consider Z" does stand as a sentence on its own...

Re:Slashdot readership to Dice

[globaljustin]

Consider scrapping beta.

agree...i hate that we have to hijack threads to say this but they need to stop

plz Dice...stop...just stop

slashdot's 'look and feel' is fine how it is...ok, some could say its dated...but the is **not** to hack the content down to a big 'feed' that buries content under graphics

leave the main layout the same! tinker with logos/colors/menu types etc. but **don't remove whole sidebars** and put giant squares of color where informative text used to be

this is the worst trend in "U/X" right now....the idea that less information is somehow better and that users somehow prefer all content from one giant feed pipe

please...just stop...

if you want to make it look snappy, fine, but dont reduce the complexity & information level

Re:Slashdot readership to Dice

[Anonymous Coward]

Go fuck yourself, you homosexual pervert.

Re:Slashdot readership to Dice

[Velex]

Exactly.

I would be happy with [FUCK] BETA if it weren't for the superfluous sidebar that continues down the page to infinity and beyond, limiting space for comments and the various other layout issues. The font size is too big for another thing. Now I know I can hit ctrl+- a few times, but I mean, come on! I want comments to be the full width of my window, and I want to choose whether I want to see all comments when I'm moderating and whether I just want to browse at +1 or +2 depending on my attention span any particular day. In fact, I don't give a FUCK BETA whether a comment was modded up because it was funny, insightful, or interesting or whatever. All I care about is how many moderators thought the comment was noteworthy when I don't care to browse at 0 or -1.

FUCK BETA is like everything I hate about the mobile site brought to a desktop site. I even do "request desktop site" on my phone when browsing Slashdot because the mobile site is worthless. I once tried modding on the mobile site, and not a single mod ever took place! (Still had my mod points when I got home!)

We can argue about whether or not it's too AJAXy or whether JQuery is too onerous. All I want is the Slashdot I know and love for its threaded comment system and moderation/meta-moderation system. More power to Dice if they can realize a functional AJAXy vision of that in my opinion as long as it degrades gracefully for browsers such as elinks (yes, I actually do use elinks on occasion!) and screen readers, but FUCK BETA is not that.

Re:Slashdot readership to Dice

[DocHoncho]

FUCK BETA is like everything I hate about the mobile site brought to a desktop site.

You think the current mobile site is bad? Try the beta on your phone. Sweet raptor jesus, after the third nesting level or so the text is squeezed in a narrow little space and ends up being one or two words per line.

And there's no way to get it to show the "normal" layout on a mobile device, it seems to be based on window width somehow. For instance, if you take the beta site and shrink the window you can see it changing the layout to "suit" the smaller space, eventually ending up with this weird single column view that ends up being all you get on a phone. No, using "request desktop site" does nothing.

I suppose at the very least if they fixed the spacing issues the beta would be a worthwhile replacement for the current mobile site, which is, quite frankly, complete shit. I'll grant you that no matter what they do slashdotters are going to bitch, but the current outcry is far worse than for the current site, when it was a shitty beta.

Re:Slashdot readership to Dice

[Dcnjoe60]

Did you ever think that maybe that's why it is a beta?

Racial overtones to "MOVIN' ON UP"?

[Anonymous Coward]

My understanding is that the phrase "MOVIN' ON UP" comes from the theme song of a 1970s and 1980s American TV show called The Jeffersons. It is also my understanding that the show revolves around an African-American couple and the trials and tribulations they must deal with in their daily lives.

Given its ties to the African-American culture and experience, I find it a very odd phrase to be used here. While there are African-Americans here, no doubt, it is my understanding that the Slashdot demographic is generally that of the middle-aged white male.

The contrast between the phrase's origin and how it's being used here gives me the impression, perhaps wrongly, that we're being mocked by it.

It's inherently contradictory, at its most elemental level. The Slashdot beta is obviously inferior to the existing site. Some may even go so far as to say that the beta site is a steaming pile of horse shit. So being forced to use it clearly is not comparable to "moving on up" in society.

At a deeper level, the use of that phrase gives me the impression, again perhaps wrongly, that we users of Slashdot are considered an "underclass" here, much as African-Americans have been historically treated as such in the United States. It's as if we're being told that we are individuals with no free will; we are forced into doing the bidding of others. In this case, we are forced against our will to use the rancid Slashdot beta site.

I think it's a very poor choice of words, personally. While I don't care much for political correctness, I also do not care much for the unnecessary use of phrases that may be misinterpreted so easily. I care even less for wording that may very well be mocking me and my fellow Slashdot users, especially when there's the possibility that there's a racial element to it.

Re:Racial overtones to "MOVIN' ON UP"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Please, STFU. Do you have any clue how idiotic you sound?

Re: Racial overtones to "MOVIN' ON UP"?

[Anonymous Coward]

African American here. There were NP fucks given regarding your post. Bagel. Much like your sex life

AC to Slashdot: Consider offering "classic" option

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it is clear nobody likes your shitty Beta design. If you don't give us the option to continue using the "classic" mode we will leave.

Beta Sucks!

[Anonymous Coward]

Please post this to new articles if it hasn't been posted yet. (Copy-paste the html from here so links don't get mangled!)

On February 5, 2014, Slashdot announced through a javascript popup that they are starting to "move in to" the new Slashdot Beta design. Slashdot Beta is a trend-following attempt to give Slashdot a fresh look, an approach that has led to less space for text and an abandonment of the traditional Slashdot look. Much worse than that, Slashdot Beta fundamentally breaks the classic Slashdot discussion and moderation system.

If you haven't seen Slashdot Beta already, open this in a new tab. After seeing that, click here to return to classic Slashdot.

We should boycott stories and only discuss the abomination that is Slashdot Beta until Dice abandons the project.
We should boycott slashdot entirely during the week of Feb 10 to Feb 17 as part of the wider slashcott

Moderators - only spend mod points on comments that discuss Beta
Commentors - only discuss Beta
  http://slashdot.org/recent - Vote up the Fuck Beta stories

Keep this up for a few days and we may finally get the PHBs attention.

-----=====##### LINKS #####=====-----

Discussion of Beta: http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=56395415

Discussion of where to go if Beta goes live: http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&type=submission&id=3321441

Alternative Slashdot: http://altslashdot.org (thanks Okian Warrior (537106))

Re:Beta Sucks!

[FunPika]

Mod parent up.

Re:Beta Sucks!

[Dcnjoe60]

Mod parent up.

Why would you ever mod up somebody hiding behind an anonymous coward? If they aren't willing to sign their name, why should they be listened to?

WORST. BETA. EVER.

[2phar]

For a start, remove the MOVIN ON UP banner.

Postpone any plan to 'migrate' people to the beta at this time and make it clear that you have.

Go back and at least make sure all the current comments-handling functionality is in place on the new site before even thinking of trying it again. Run a story on the current site about the beta again when you have done that, and see how it's received in the comments [you know - the thing Slashdot excels at] before switching people over to it.

Then again, the above only matters if you're concerned about keeping the current user base. That's open to question.

Alleged Apple patents on Android

[tepples]

There's nothing to keep Apple out of the Android market as a secondary phone market.

Of course there is. Apple isn't allowed to distribute copies of Android to the public except under license from Linus Torvalds, Google, and other contributors to Android. If Apple accepts the license of Android (mostly Apache v2 and GPLv2), it has to give the public an implicit or explicit license to patents that Apple holds that Android allegedly infringes. So unless Apple wants to end up dropping lawsuits against Samsung, it has to refrain from making an iDroid.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[TWX]

You'd need to read up on SCO vs Novell et al, I don't think that the argument by Novell and company that SCO had implicitly granted permissions for the code that they were suing about by continuing to distribute the successor to Caldera OpenLinux, which contained a GPL license with the theoretically offending code, was recognized. If it had been then the suit would not have lasted for as long as it did.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[PolygamousRanchKid]

Apple's rich enough to duke it out with the other Big Boys over patents. But they don't want to dilute their high end hardware brand. It would be like BMW producing cheap Ford Locus copies. People buy Apple because they want "something special".

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Anonymous Coward]

If what you said was true in any way that would mean that anyone who builds an Android phone would be forfeiting patent rights to anyone else building an Android phone. We know that's not true.
 
Just more clueless FUD from the clueless masses.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Anonymous Coward]

This is funny, of course they'll use Android. They don't make anything themselves. Haven't you noticed how Mac OSX is a blatant rip off of Red Star OS? Glorious Leader spent several hours creating an operating system from scratch only to have it stolen by these capitalist lapdogs.

 

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[TWX]

They (BMW) already have a lower-end model, it's called the Mini Cooper.

And Mercedes has Smart, and even had Smart in North America for a time.

And the analogy falls apart when one considers that Apple isn't really a premium brand anyway. Unfortunately the premium brands are essentially gone now. SGI, Sun, hell, even HP and IBM had their high, high end workstations. Apple doesn't make high-end, they make commodity. They make some things that are better than others, but for every Cadillac they have plenty of Buicks and Chevrolets.

Re: Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Anonymous Coward]

BMW make the mini.
VW makes Skoda's and Audi's

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Anonymous Coward]

I was railing your mom'a ass yesterday morning and all she kept screaming was "fuck beta", fuck beta!"

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Anonymous Coward]

What the fuck are you on about? The GPLv2 says nothing about patents. The GPLv3 has a patent clause in it, but I'm sure none of the Android code uses GPLv3.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[tepples]

I base this on section "3. Grant of Patent License" in the license of Android.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[tepples]

Under the Apache license, Android phone makers are required to license their patents that cover Android itself to other Android phone makers.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[tepples]

The kernel is GPLv2. Modules specific to Android are under Apache v2, which has a patent clause. These modules implement things like overscroll bounce, pinch zoom, data tapping, and other user interface features on which Apple claims to hold patents.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Dcnjoe60]

There's nothing to keep Apple out of the Android market as a secondary phone market.

Of course there is. Apple isn't allowed to distribute copies of Android to the public except under license from Linus Torvalds, Google, and other contributors to Android. If Apple accepts the license of Android (mostly Apache v2 and GPLv2), it has to give the public an implicit or explicit license to patents that Apple holds that Android allegedly infringes. So unless Apple wants to end up dropping lawsuits against Samsung, it has to refrain from making an iDroid.

That would only be true if Apple incorporate those patents into their version of Android. If Apple left Apple stuff out of the Android operating system, they wouldn't have to give up anything.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Dcnjoe60]

Apple's rich enough to duke it out with the other Big Boys over patents. But they don't want to dilute their high end hardware brand. It would be like BMW producing cheap Ford Locus copies. People buy Apple because they want "something special".

People buy Apple because it says Apple. They could scoop up dogshit from the NY city streets and if they called it iShit and put an Apple logo on it, people would buy it.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Anonymous Coward]

There's nothing to keep Apple out of the Android market as a secondary phone market.

Of course there is. Apple isn't allowed to distribute copies of Android to the public except under license from Linus Torvalds, Google, and other contributors to Android. If Apple accepts the license of Android (mostly Apache v2 and GPLv2), it has to give the public an implicit or explicit license to patents that Apple holds that Android allegedly infringes. So unless Apple wants to end up dropping lawsuits against Samsung, it has to refrain from making an iDroid.

Apple making an Android phone is about as likely as Vladimir Putin coming out of the closet as a gay.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[narcc]

Indeed. Apple would be foolish to make an Android phone, just as Blackberry would have been foolish to do so. In BB's case, you don't drop a superior OS in favor of a dramatically inferior one. That's not a recipe for success! Whatever Blackberry's problems were, it wasn't the technology.

If Woz wants Apple to produce Android phone, that can mean only one thing: He wants to see Apple die.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[mjwx]

They (BMW) already have a lower-end model, it's called the Mini Cooper.

At the low end, BMW have the 1 series, which I don't think are available in the US.

Mini is a completely different badge altogether. Same with Smart (the cheap Merc's are the A class).

And the analogy falls apart when one considers that Apple isn't really a premium brand anyway.

This.

Apple is a luxury brand in the same way that VW is a luxury brand, it isn't. However this does not stop lot of people who buy a Golf GTI from pretending they have a European luxury car.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Applehu Akbar]

So how does your grammaw like her Mac Pro? Bet it comes in handy for polishing up those cruise videos with Final Cut Pro.

Re: Alleged Apple patents on Android

[shiruba3094]

Well, they wouldn't have to load android on it. They could just explain the specs well enough that people could make drivers for it, and then make it ready to load an alternative os. You know, like boot camp.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[ChaseTec]

I don't even think licensing is the main issue. Content (and making money off of it) is the big issue. iTunes could probably be modified to support additional phone types so music and movies aren't that big an issue but the real issue is the app store. Apple makes money on all apps sold (and in-app purchases) and none of those apps would work on an android device (without a WINE type API compatibility) so your talking about Apple creating a second Apple app store with zero existing apps. They'd have to encourage android developers to submit their apps to the google play store and the apple android store. That should sound familiar because that is basically what Amazon does. And you know what, their app selection sucks. No way would Apple ever release a phone that supports the google play store.

Maybe Apple should have pushed web apps a little more... If JavaScript was a "native" development language with true phone hardware APIs then we'd have apps that could enable them to swap the underlying platform without making their app store irrelevant.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Anubis IV]

I'm having trouble parsing your comment. Could you please rephrase why it is that you dislike the beta so that we can understand you better?

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Anonymous Coward]

People buy Apple because they want "something special".

iPhones aren't "special". They're reasonable quality and an unchallenging choice for people who want to blend in. An iPhone is as close to a generic product as you can get.

If you're desperate for a car analogy, Apple make Camrys, not Z4s.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Dragonslicer]

Of course there is. Apple isn't allowed to distribute copies of Android to the public except under license from Linus Torvalds, Google, and other contributors to Android. If Apple accepts the license of Android (mostly Apache v2 and GPLv2), it has to give the public an implicit or explicit license to patents that Apple holds that Android allegedly infringes. So unless Apple wants to end up dropping lawsuits against Samsung, it has to refrain from making an iDroid.

Is what you said true, though? Does the APL and GPL require granting the public a license to all of Apple's patents, or does it only require granting a license to users of the software when they use the software (i.e. you can't distribute some GPL software and then sue the people that got it from you)?

I haven't read the licenses lately, and I don't care enough to go read them right now, so that is a genuine question.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[tepples]

Does the APL and GPL require granting the public a license to all of Apple's patents, or does it only require granting a license to users of the software when they use the software

The Apache license (read it now) requires each "Contributor" to a covered program (those who modify it, as Apple would when porting Android to its device) to grant a license to its "patent claims licensable by such Contributor that are necessarily infringed" by the program.

Re: Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Dragonslicer]

It looks like the patent license only applies to their contrbutions, though ("where such license applies only to those patent claims licensable by such Contributor that are necessarily infringed by their Contribution(s) alone or by combination of their Contribution(s) with the Work"). So if they don't submit any changes, maybe other than device drivers, they could still use their patents against other Android manufacturers.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[dido]

In what way was BlackBerryOS superior to Android? Perhaps it is superior in many technical ways, but we all know that isn't what makes or breaks a platform. BBOS is, however, woefully deficient in the one thing that truly matters: DEVELOPER MINDSHARE. We all remember Steve Ballmer famously dancing around like a monkey shouting "Developers, Developers, Developers" but for all how ridiculous he looked, he was absolutely right. Without developers making applications for a platform, a platform has no users, and without users, a platform dies. Microsoft is seeing that right now with Windows Phone, and Blackberry never managed to attract much of a developer base. Like it or not, iOS and Android were the platforms that attracted a lot of mindshare, and even Microsoft with all its resources is having a hard time muscling themselves in.

Well, I've been on Slashdot since 1996 or thereabouts, and soon enough it would have been twenty years since I first registered. I'd hate to leave, but if the beta is shoved down my throat with no way to go back to something reasonably approximating classic, well, I'm outta here too. From what I've seen of it, it totally destroys the comments section, and that's really what I've found most valuable about Slashdot which has kept me coming back nearly every day for the past eighteen years!

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[unity]

I had to make a blackberry app for a customer and It was a total pain in the ass for too many reasons to list. I say good riddance to it. I wouldn't count windows phone out, its easy to develop for and I happen to really like the interface. They did take too long to get into all the carriers. My big complaint with MS was their total lack of support for corporate apps on the WP. They have recently rectified that FINALLY, but still its a pita and takes a fair number of steps to enable. oh, and i'm with you on the beta bullshit.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Anonymous Coward]

This sounds like a valid point. I'm glad that there is a lot of discussion and thinking about the issue. I was quickly answering a question and did comment that I wasn't privy to the business considerations. Thank you.

-- Woz (sorry I didn't login...I hate that anonymous thing)

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[stenvar]

Good analogy: BMW's are actually pretty unreliable and overpriced. There are much better deals out there if you want a good car, sports car or otherwise. The "quality" you pay for with BMW is all in the brand name and the styling.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[ozmanjusri]

I base this on section "3. Grant of Patent License" in the license of Android [apache.org].

So what you're saying is that if Nokia release their Normandy Android phone next month, it'll indemnify Android from both Nokia and Microsoft's patent extortion?

Does that include the FAT patents that they've been getting so much cash from?

If so, you've uncovered a far bigger story than Woz's opinion piece...

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[tepples]

Not if Nokisoft strips out FAT support from the version of Android on the phone. Besides, FAT is part of Linux, which is licensed separately (GPLv2) from the userland of Android (Apache v2).

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[dgatwood]

Apple's rich enough to duke it out with the other Big Boys over patents. But they don't want to dilute their high end hardware brand.

It would do more than just dilute the brand. It would be an entirely incompatible ecosystem that they'd have to somehow graft in support for, which would mean huge engineering overhead. It isn't like BMW building a copy of a Ford. It's more like living in a world in which there's a network of overhead tracks that run above all the roads, and BMW deciding to build a second version of their cars that hangs from those tracks and has to be driven by pushbuttons and a trackball instead of a steering wheel, so drivers have to relearn how to drive. And they would somehow have to modify all of their existing cars to add brake lights near the roof so that drivers of the new hanging cars could see them and wouldn't crash into people's rear windshields.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Anonymous Coward]

pple's rich enough to duke it out with the other Big Boys over patents. But they don't want to dilute their high end hardware brand. It would be like BMW producing cheap Ford Locus copies. People buy Apple because they want "something special".
1) Android isn't hardware, its software
2) Android is based on Linux, and it runs on hardware *A lot more high end* than a pissy little cell phone. Linux runs on (most) $200+ million dollar supercomputers. Lunkheads with perceived are clearly very wrong-headed. Also, BMW (the company) has a supercomputer they use to design their supercars (aerodynamics, engine design, etc.), and that supercomputer runs Linux.

Re: Alleged Apple patents on Android

[iamhassi]

Exactly. Apple doesn't need android anymore then apple has needed windows for the past 25+ years. Apple will survive just fine for many years without Android.
Android is the one in trouble. With Samsung making their own smartphone OS and China moving away from Android we might see Android quickly fall to 3rd or 4th in the most popular new smartphones OS's sold.

Re: Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Anonymous Coward]

You are wrong on so many levels about BMW...

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Anonymous Coward]

There's two billion dollars per annum flowing from Android vendors to Microsoft. http://gadgets.ndtv.com/mobile...

If that's at risk from Normandy, I'd expect their lawyers to be all over it.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Anonymous Coward]

And the fact that Woz still thinks Apple should go for it tells you exactly how valid he thinks those patents are.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Vintermann]

There's a reason why you can't just strip out FAT support, a reason those patents are so obscene. It's a de-facto standard, and you need it for compatibility with lots and lots of stuff.

The actual technical worth of the FAT filesystems is zero. They are dumb, slow, they fragment, and lacks essential features. You can have strictly superior systems for free. But due to network effects, it's very hard to get rid of as the lowest-common-denominator filesystem, that can be read on every Windows and OSX and dumb little flashcard-reading gadget.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[swilver]

Maybe that was the case a few years ago. Now it is just the phone that only comes in size 6. Don't have size 6? Too bad.

Apple is "special" alright, just not in the way you think.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Anonymous Coward]

OSX actually started off as the BSD codebase.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Anonymous Coward]

1. apple make android phone
2. Apple fanatics claim Apple invented Android
3. Apple sues every one else for patent infringement
.
Profit

Re: Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Anonymous Coward]

You're missing the cross licensing/retaliation agreement:

If You institute patent litigation against any entity (including a cross-claim or counterclaim in a lawsuit) alleging that the Work or a Contribution incorporated within the Work constitutes direct or contributory patent infringement, then any patent licenses granted to You under this License for that Work shall terminate as of the date such litigation is filed.

I.e. if Apple sues Android contributors for patent infringement, they immediately lose all rights to use any Android code covered by any other contributor's patents.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[JonnyCalcutta]

I wouldn't be that surprised if he was. I know its a cliche but I still suspect that the most anti-gay are really grappling with their own hidden feelings and (unjustified) self loathing. Otherwise why would they care so much?

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Anonymous Coward]

If You institute patent litigation against any entity (including a cross-claim or counterclaim in a lawsuit) alleging that the Work or a Contribution incorporated within the Work constitutes direct or contributory patent infringement, then any patent licenses granted to You under this License for that Work shall terminate as of the date such litigation is filed.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would you need FAT support on a phone again? That's right, you don't. There are other file systems to choose from.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you, Sir Buzz Killington.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[AmiMoJo]

It would have made a lot of sense for BB to switch to Android. Their big thing was the services they provided to business and end users (mainly BBM, which is now on Android too) and the fact that their hardware had a real keyboard. They could have saved a lot of money spent on OS development and focused on those services, while bringing their hardware to a wider audience of people who want an Android device.

For Apple I'm not so sure... It really depends how long they can keep iOS a viable platform.

Re: Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Anonymous Coward]

VW also do Seats (Spanish pronunciation) which are the "fun" brand.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is everyone enamoured with Google Android? The system has enough holes to drive malware through with ease. I use GNU/Linux on my notebook and servers but on my smartphone I ran a secure operating system called BlackBerry OS 10. Of course now that the truth about NSA involvement in ECC has come to light I feel less secure in the previous statement.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[AJH16]

If this were true, then the source for TouchWiz would also have to be released. You are allowed to make proprietary hardware and software without making it part of Android. If they don't alter the OS to include their patents, then it wouldn't release their patents. The point and definition of that clause is so that you can't patent encumber an open source project by contributing code that uses something you have a patent to without promising you won't go after anyone for using your contribution.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[tepples]

f this were true, then the source for TouchWiz would also have to be released. You are allowed to make proprietary hardware and software without making it part of Android.

Do most of the patents in suit in Apple v. Samsung cover TouchWiz, or do they cover features that are actually "part of Android"?

If they don't alter the OS to include their patents

Apple might claim that Apple wouldn't have to "alter the OS" because it already "include[s] their patents".

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Anonymous Coward]

This is not true. Citation please?

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[tepples]

Citation: Section 3 of the Apache license version 2

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[AJH16]

The point is that participating with an open source project doesn't make it so things that aren't part of that contribution are covered by the license. You can't modify the code without giving out a patent license for your contributions, but just because someone else decides to contribute something that violates your patent and you happen to make unrelated contributions doesn't mean that you authorized someone else's abuse.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[david_thornley]

Apple has been happy to use software under GPLv2, and apparently doesn't touch anything with GPLv3. I don't think there's anything GPLv3 in Android (there isn't in Linux), so it's not a matter of licensing. It's just that making Android iPhones would be a stupid thing to do. The Woz has done some marvelous things, but I don't think he's got comparable business savvy.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[david_thornley]

Except that Apple is a premium brand. They don't make things for the low end. They put a heck of a lot of finish on what they do. Their user and support satisfaction numbers are generally the best.

Thing is, /. caters to a crowd that generally doesn't care that much about the little things Apple puts into their systems, but tends to rate systems on raw power, which Apple doesn't usually compete on. There's nothing wrong with that, but the /. crowd also seems to come up short on empathy, so people here tend not to understand why other people are often willing to pay extra for Apple gear.

Consider the iPhone. It didn't have more capabilities than other smart phones of the time, but it was much more usable. iPhones still generate disproportionate amounts of web traffic, for example. That sort of thing is less important to somebody who likes the Unix/Linux command line than somebody who can't remember any of the options on the "find" command and doesn't want to learn.

Re:Alleged Apple patents on Android

[tepples]

Has Apple been happy to use software under Apache v2, the license of Android's userland?

Re: Alleged Apple patents on Android

[Anonymous Coward]

VW also do Seats (Spanish pronunciation) which are the "fun" brand.

They also do Bugatti.

Wozniak to Slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck Beta

Since slashdot is now run by marketing...

[MarkRose]

Since slashdot is now run by marketing, why not let them know about the beta where they might listen? Slashdot Media on LinkedIn.

Writing on the wall.....

[sfm]

Check out some of the predictions that came out when /. went to Dice. It is amazing how well some people can predict the future.

http://news.slashdot.org/story...

BRING ON THE BETA AND ALL THAT IS GOOD !!

[Anonymous Coward]

Because what is good for Dice is good for Slashdot and what is good from Slashdot is good for us !!

NOT !!

P.S. It will not work !! Beta is dead !! BUT !! Classic is already dead !! Beta is the new classic !! WELCOME TO MY NIGHTMARE !!

Users To Slashdot: Consider Building A Usable Site

[Anonymous Coward]

Consider offering a site that is not based on garbage.

Wacky Wozzy

[hondo77]

I wonder what caused him to start smoking crack?

Re:Wacky Wozzy

[aitmanga]

The slashdot beta, of course.

Re:Wacky Wozzy

[Bing Tsher E]

Well, he hung around with Jobs for awhile.

Re:Wacky Wozzy

[BasilBrush]

Woz had a plane crash in 1981, and suffered head injuries. He hasn't said much rational since then. Nor created anything of note.

Beta Sucks

[tekpagan]

Beta Sucks
Join the boycott Feb 10-17.
If Beta is still here on the 18th I will not return.
Do not fix what is not broken.

Re:Beta Sucks

[PGC]

Exuse me, but the proper pronounciation is 'Fuck Beta'.

Re:Beta Sucks

[Mitreya]

Join the boycott Feb 10-17.
If Beta is still here on the 18th I will not return.

Exactly. Let's do that
I have been here for well over 10 years, and I am now investigating possible /. alternatives.

We should have a discussion titled "Where would you go should Beta become permanent?"

Re:Beta Sucks

[Princeofcups]

Beta Sucks
Join the boycott Feb 10-17.
If Beta is still here on the 18th I will not return.
Do not fix what is not broken.

Please stop with this boycott nonsense. It accomplishes nothing except letting you "think" that you are doing something when you are powerless to do anything.

Re:Beta Sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

Consider it done!

captcha: bunkmate

Re:Beta Sucks

[sexconker]

Beta Sucks
Join the boycott Feb 10-17.
If Beta is still here on the 18th I will not return.
Do not fix what is not broken.

Please stop with this boycott nonsense. It accomplishes nothing except letting you "think" that you are doing something when you are powerless to do anything.

So you want to boycott the boycott? That accomplishes nothing except letting you "think" that you are doing something when you are powerless to do anything.
I'd rather boycott your boycott of the boycott.

F
U
C
K

B
E
T
A

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK BETA!!!!!!!!!!

Re:Beta Sucks

[B1ackDragon]

I will join you. I just burned all 15 of my mod points on other stories voting up "fuck beta" posts, but I won't even visit the site from the 10th to the 17th (or whenever we settle on for a boycott). It will be interesting to see how often I get mod points after this debacle is over one way or another ;)
Slashdot has never been a paragon of beauty OR usability, but this redesign really kills the discussion; I even gave it a shot.

Re:Beta Sucks

[pitchpipe]

Please stop with this boycott nonsense. It accomplishes nothing except letting you "think" that you are doing something when you are powerless to do anything.

Actually, it will just be a test to myself more likely. I won't go on Slashdot for a week in boycott. At the end of the week I'll come back to see if beta is 'live'. If it is the boycott will still end, and Slashdot will be a website that I used to go to.

Side note to all you longtime users/posters: I just want to thank you for all of the great commentary over the years, some comments have changed me and some had tears streaming down my cheeks with laughter.

The nerds are dead. Long live the nerds!

Re:Beta Sucks

[Dcnjoe60]

Beta Sucks
Join the boycott Feb 10-17.
If Beta is still here on the 18th I will not return.
Do not fix what is not broken.

If slashdot keeps the beta or even went away for good, it wouldn't be the end of the world. If you want to rally for a cause, then do so for something really important like abolishing human trafficking or protecting at risk youth or whatever. But really, all of this attention for something so trivial. People should be ashamed of themselves all of this hoopla over this.

Re:Beta Sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn! Was modding you up as 'funny' but had a senior moment and clicked 'overrated' instead. Currently investigating if I can fix the Karma injury...

Re:Beta Sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

technology is fixing what's not broken

Re:Beta Sucks

[SpaghettiPattern]

It accomplishes nothing except letting you "think" that you are doing something when you are powerless to do anything.

That bit of reality really made my day... Sigh...

Re:Beta Sucks

[Common Joe]

Strange. I'd say you're trolling, but you have a low count six-digit user ID. I'll choose to treat you as misinformed.

You say that we are powerless. I disagree. I intend to boycott. Should that fail, I'll leave for another site... which is already in the making. (I might frequent both if both can survive. There are other IT sites after all.) That is the power of my choice.

As for power the of Slashdot, it comes from the community -- people like you and me. If enough people boycott, the quality of Slashdot will be seriously affected for a week. It will be interesting to see the results.

-- Common Joe

Valentines Day Slashcott: Boycott Slashdot because "Fuck Beta!": February 10 - 17

Support Okian Warrior's alternate slashdot idea! Information can be found here: www.altslashdot.org.

Re:Beta Sucks

[karmawarrior]

Any chance you could start that boycott a little earlier? KTHXBYE.

So that we won't forget the Woz...

[Bill_the_Engineer]

It's that time of year again! Wozniak needs to remain visible and he delivers his usual controversial quotes to internet to feed the link baits.

Beta sucks btw.

Never a businessman

[amightywind]

Funny. Like committing hari-kari to keep from getting killed. You never were a businessman, Woz.

Fuck Beta!

[Striek]

That is all.

why oh why malda

[Anonymous Coward]

Why did you leave slashdot in the hands of bunch of marketing soulless faggots who created Beta
Fuck beta

Re:why oh why malda

[sexconker]

Why did you leave slashdot in the hands of bunch of marketing soulless faggots who created Beta
Fuck beta

Because he needed both hands - one for the magnifying glass and one for the tweezers - to find his micro penis.

beta is worse than meego

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck beta.

I've long considered Steve Wozniak a person to respect for his contributions to the early home PC market, but this right here? This is where he jumped the shark.

Not enough ad revenue? Why not piss off the users?

[Anonymous Coward]

What kind of brain-dead moron, when confronted with low ad revenue for a site, proceeds down a path that pisses off the users?

"Hey, I have a hemorrhoid! I'll shove a hand grenade up my ass to fix it!"

WRONG

[Anonymous Coward]

There are very good reasons.

1. profit - Apple already earns most of the profits to be made http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/08/22/apple-samsung-dediu-profits/
2. Control - unless they fork it, Google is in control , and if you are going to fork it why not just stick with IOS
3. Good taste - Apple does NOT want to be associated with all the low end crap
4. No eco-system - Apple will NOT want to support iTunes etc etc on a platform they don't control, particularly if people try to run the Apps on 3rd party phones

So if Apple were to make a high quality Android phone , it would probably cost the same money as the iPhone , so they may as well stick to IOS because its working for them.

Re: WRONG

[Scowler]

Apple should take this in the opposite direction... Provide tools to migrate Android data to iOS. For example, allow an Android user iCloud access, and be able to load that data (including app-specific data) from iPad/iPhone. Make the bar to convert to iOS as low as possible.

Re: WRONG

[xlsior]

Provide tools to migrate Android data to iOS. For example, allow an Android user iCloud access, and be able to load that data (including app-specific data) from iPad/iPhone. Make the bar to convert to iOS as low as possible.

Except doing so also lowers the bar leaving the Apple ecosystem behind... Given that Apple has a significantly smaller market share than Android does in most countries these days, it seems like it would be a losing strategy for them.

Comment to Wozniak

[Anonymous Coward]

Consider retiring or putting more effort into research before suggesting what you did.

Oh and down with Beta...

Don't care - Screw BETA

[Adeptus_Luminati]

You cannot ignore us forever... soon enough we will ignore you.

Re:Don't care - Screw BETA

[Anonymous Coward]

.. and don't forget, we are the ones who provides the content for which people visit your site. And FUCK BETA!!

errrr.. no

[Anonymous Coward]

That's about a likely as Microsoft building their own Linux distro

Wozniak To Apple: Consider Fucking Beta

[Thanosius]

n/t

-1 ontopic

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck you. Today,
fuck beta is all there is to say.

Slashdot sucks, why make it suck more?

[rdelsambuco]

I logged in just to say that. I NEVER login.

Beta

[CdBee]

...the anally-inserted chilli-soaked cactus of haemorrhoid remedies

Yes, quite the cautionary tale indeed.

[sootman]

The moral of BlackBerry's demise is, "Don't make be a show-moving turd and make crappy decisions when you're not the the world's most valuable and profitable company at the same time." I think Apple has a bit of a cushion before Mr. Cook is commiserating with Messrs. Lazaridis and Balsillie.

Seeing as how Apple managed to survive without ever shipping a Mac running Windows, I doubt we'll ever see Apple-made hardware leaving the factory with Android installed. That said, it's a neat idea, but it's about as pointless as wishing Ford would ship a Mustang with a Corvette engine.

In other news, slashdot beta still sucks.

Re:Yes, quite the cautionary tale indeed.

[larkost]

While your statement about Windows never shipping on a Mac is technically true, the "PC Compatibility Cards for Power Macintosh" cards came really close. They were basically most of a PC on a PCI card using a Pentium processor, so you could have a Windows machine running inside your PowerMac:

http://www.mug.jhmi.edu/mirrors/infoalley/0496/25/pc.html

They came with DOS installed, so you had to instal your own copy of Windows.

Re:Yes, quite the cautionary tale indeed.

[slew]

Apple managed to survive without ever shipping a Mac running Windows...

Yet they did switch to shipping Macs that could run Windows (boot camp, parallels).

In fact it wasn't just that Macs could run windows, the Apple folks that speced the HW for the Macs were always interested in how well the windows benchmarks performed on all the Mac HW they shipped because inevitably someone would use this as a basis to compare the value proposition of the machines and they knew many folks bought Macs because they could still get PC compatibility if necessary for their job/work.

Right now the world is on Apple's side, but when it hasn't they haven't been historically too proud to make their products useful if necessary (e.g., office on Mac, etc)... Of course the Apple fanbois don't tend to see things that way...

Running a hot android app under iOS might actually be a desired thing someday, you never know..

fuck beta

[Anonymous Coward]

fuck beta, fortunately i am still on classic in my browser at work

Would be a user-experience downgrade

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm one of those "retards" that still have a dumbphone, but having tried both iOS and Android, if I'd ever get a smart one, it sure as hell would not be one running Android.

The Woz.....

[Dega704]

Always a heretic in the church of Apple. That's why we love him.

would make Android into Apple's slave

[globaljustin]

Wozniak needs to remain visible and he delivers his usual controversial quotes

maybe Woz does this...idk...but on the merits this is an awesome idea. this is what actual "innovation" in business looks like

the iphone running Android would make Google into Apple's bitch...

strategically, you get them on your hardware with the option of using Android software...fine...if Google gets testy, **users can switch to iOS easily**

Android users on iPhone would always be *one click* away from iOS...that would let Apple dictate development terms to Android

fanboi disclaimer: I use devices with both Android and iOS so im not pimping one over the other..

Re: would make Android into Apple's slave

[David_Hart]

maybe Woz does this...idk...but on the merits this is an awesome idea. this is what actual "innovation" in business looks like the iphone running Android would make Google into Apple's bitch...

strategically, you get them on your hardware with the option of using Android software...fine...if Google gets testy, **users can switch to iOS easily**
Android users on iPhone would always be *one click* away from iOS...that would let Apple dictate development terms to Android

fanboi disclaimer: I use devices with both Android and iOS so im not pimping one over the other..

.
Today users can switch to an IOS device. Does that make Google Apple's bitch? No. Why would make you think that Apple using Android for their iDevices would take away any power from Google? It wouldn't.
.
Woz is being silly anyway. Apple isn't going to give up their walled garden app store, they make too much money off of it.

Re:would make Android into Apple's slave

[MoneyT]

the iphone running Android would make Google into Apple's bitch...

Just like Google is currently Samsung's bitch?

Jesus Christ they have 35 employees

[Anonymous Coward]

How can that be possible? How can they have possibly have 35 employees and not one competent web designer?

Wozniak has ruffled feathers before

[Anonymous Coward]

Wozniak has ruffled feathers before, in fact many times. This post concerns merely one issue though.

That is why, even as a longtime apple 2 -> Mac - OS X -> iOS pro developer I admire him for his candor when he slams Apple.

Usually he is right, even if he attacks his own investments, both financial or intellectual.

The best time he attacked apple was back around 1991 or 1992, when in a little publicized shaming of Apple, he complained about Apple's near retarded renaming of names and macros in the header files so that everything you compiled year to year would continually break. Including... THE ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE interface headers!

I had 500 kilobytes of hand crafted assembler and I got so sick of apple ruining my life with capricious and continual spelling changes (they foolishly use way too many abbreviations, and then gradually add more letters over time, like microsoft)... that I made my own headers for assembly language based off frozen header forks.

That way my stuff can always assemble and compile for many many years. This was for a variety of products with over 500,000 paid for licensed copies.

When wozniak bitched about the header utter disrespect at apple, I was so happy to have him in my corner.

Truthfully, Apple source code headers have always been 4 times more logical and better than microsofts, but in OS X they at least have various mechanisms to allow older code to compile with newer headers, with over 5 year overlap, if not 7. Also in OS X there are tools that can extract headers from apps or from the entombed headers in ".framework" files. So the header horror years are long over, except when bridging legacy mac, legacy windows, and Cocoa all into one huge namespace. ... i am digressing...

Breaking it year to year was foolish and wozniak called apple on it, for apple hiring morons.

Wozniak was always semi approachable, and I also like the fact that one of two of wozniaks non personal phone lines was always listed and publicly accessible in his den his whole career, for the polish joke on the tape he left. Many I know called it up in the late 70s early 80s. I was thrilled to see the thing in the recent movie "Jobs". Truthfully, Steve Jobs too, except in person on the sidewalk, was also very very openly approachable, primarily via beth or his other secretaries as intermediaries. And steve was far more humble than biographers give credit. In mid 2000s he drove his own kid to school every day on the way to work, not too many fathers did that.

Re:Wozniak has ruffled feathers before

[Xest]

"In mid 2000s he drove his own kid to school every day on the way to work, not too many fathers did that."

They did if they've not long found out they possibly have terminal cancer and wanted to optimise the amount of time they spend with their kid as a result.

I'm getting desperate.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm willing to accept them replacing the comments with Google+ at this point if it means beta goes away.

Re:I'm getting desperate.

[TWX]

*sigh* This.

A serious attempt to get some increased RPMs from

[gnujohn]

A remarkable tale. Not only is Woz reported as having farted at the Church service, we are to believe that he expected applause for his flatulence? But no, this must be a '/. beta bug', coming out of the closet.

Damn, this could have been an interesting topic

[excelsior_gr]

I was very interesting in reading what the slashdot crowd would have to say on this topic and on the opinion of Woz. However:
1. The slashdot crowd is too pissed of with Beta, so all they do is keep complaining about it, and,
2. If they didn't complain and Beta was rolled out in silence then I would still not be able to read what the slashdot crowd had to say on the comment of Woz, because the discussion section of Beta sucks.

So, pretty please, with sugar on top, take back the fucking Beta.

Re:Damn, this could have been an interesting topic

[coolmadsi]

Normally a topic on Apple and Android would be filled with snide remarks and anti-Apple/Android comments, but most people are complaining about the slashdot beta instead, which kinda shows how much people hate it.

Re:Damn, this could have been an interesting topic

[Anonymous Coward]

Woz has had ZERO to do with Apple now for 20+ years. There is a reason for that and this blurb from him proves the reason.

half wasted space

[Anonymous Coward]

half the space is wasted with all the comments jammed in a narrow column, WTF slashdot beta?

i agree and disagree

[Anonymous Coward]

Blackberry DEFINITELY should have come out with one of their phones (hardware) running Android. However i cannot say the same for Apple.

I would absolutely love a modern, high performance Android phone WITH A REAL KEYBOARD. (and not on the side!!!)

We have spoken...

[Nightbrood]

DICE, the community is trying to tell you something. We hope you are listening. This Slash Beta idea you all got obsessed with rolling out is a REALLY bad idea. You obviously tried pencil whip the user feedback portion of your launch plan otherwise the comment system wouldn't have devolved into an outright revolt against the Beta in EVERY. SINGLE. STORY. you have posted today.

Additionally, you should keep in mind that while we love Slashdot, we recognize all good things must come to and end. If this is what you want to do, then do it. However, don't expect a large portion of the community to follow you down that path. I know this because they have told you ALL DAY. I know this because I this community, unlike many others, is made up of the people who have the skills and abilities to REPLACE you. I know they will replace you because you've made them passionate about the cause. Even I, a 4 digit UID and pro-lurker, am fired up enough to post! Fix this guys or the community will fix it for you.

Must resist....MUST. RESIST. SPOCK!

[Anonymous Coward]

Story with Wozniak, Apple and Android...MUST RESIST! SPOCK! SPOCK! Slahsot Beta - SPOCK!

Scotty, beam. Me. Up! SPOCK!

MC - COY! I. NEED. Sorrian Brandy!

Give me the brandy!

I wonder if beta fixes things that are actually br

[thevirtualcat]

---
    .
---

This previous line was supposed to read "Like UTF-8 Support." in Unicode look-alike characters.

Incidentally, I don't think they need to throw out the new layout entirely. Just fix the things about it that are horribly broken. Like the huge swaths of empty space at the sides of the screen. Especially the right. Also the comment system.

Alas, I fear that it's only marginally less likely that Apple would build an Android phone than Slashdot is to address any of the community concerns about the layout.

Dude, there is plenty of fat to be trimmed

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot media has 35 employees. Can you believe the insanity of that? 35 fucking employees to run this site and a bunch of shit spin-offs. There is plenty of fat to trim there that will make Slashdot profitable for _years_, all they have to do is scrap this shitty beta and fire these incompetent assholes.

Re:Dude, there is plenty of fat to be trimmed

[Velex]

It may not be Slashdot Media employees per se. I think we have to look higher up the food chain.

Re:Dude, there is plenty of fat to be trimmed

[Dcnjoe60]

Slashdot media has 35 employees. Can you believe the insanity of that? 35 fucking employees to run this site and a bunch of shit spin-offs. There is plenty of fat to trim there that will make Slashdot profitable for _years_, all they have to do is scrap this shitty beta and fire these incompetent assholes.

I don't work for Slashdot media, but I'm sure they appreciate an anonymous coward saying to fire them. After all, usually it is not the decision maker that gets fired, but the rank and file employee. Since slashdot lost money this year, it would be cheaper for Dice to fire all 35 employees and just shut down the site. That would also end the beta.

Re: Dude, there is plenty of fat to be trimmed

[Anonymous Coward]

I think that was his point... That they should fire some of those 35 employees to save money.

Re: Dude, there is plenty of fat to be trimmed

[Dcnjoe60]

I think that was his point... That they should fire some of those 35 employees to save money.

It would seem to be prudent to first figure out what those employees bring to the bottom line. Slashing the workforce only saves money if the the same output can be achieved with fewer people. Maybe 34 of those 35 employees market slashdot to various entities for advertising. If they are covering their cost then cutting them cuts revenues, unless there is enough slack to be picked up by others. Of course, if the others do pick up the slack for those cut, then they don't have the time to go after new clients.

The labor force of a company is rarely the problem. They don't make managerial decisions. If change is needed, it needs to start at the top. The same is true with cost savings. With the pay disparity between rank and file workers and management, cutting one manager position is the equivalent of cutting several rank and file workers. And, is more just as the managers are the ones who made the decision that screwed things up.

What is a good alternative to slashdot if this cha

[Anonymous Coward]

As a long time slashdot reader, and thus a long time Internet user, I have seen many other technically oriented websites fade away as they chase "mainstream" viewership. Slashdot did not lose quality overnight with the beta design, this is just another example of how Dice is casting aside it's core community in its attempts to better "monetize the asset" of slashdot. If this trend continues, the "beta" switch will be he last straw for many. What web site is the "escape plan" for my fellow dedicated "slashdot of old" users?

What a perfect example of why beta is bad...

[Daneurysm]

This is absolutely astounding. This is one of the most absurd articles I have seen posted to /. in years...the amount of fanboy rage, absurd theories, wild conjecture, fallible prophesying....so much. This is such a juicy article. We have practically been waiting for this since the beginning of the iOS vs Android wars...

...and instead we have focused our efforts on drawing attention to the horrid design that is threatening our digital homestead.

If that doesn't drive home the point that beta = bad, well, I just don't know what will.

Flawless karma be damned, fuck beta.

After over 15 years of this site being my home page I will simply walk away and never look back if the concerns of the user community are not taken into serious consideration. Slashdot is the community.

Re:What a perfect example of why beta is bad...

[Anonymous Coward]

What is really striking is that right now, with 87 comments posted to this story, well over half are complaining about the beta and not a single comment in defense of the beta. With most dodgy UI's (e.g. the Windows Metro UI and Unity) you get some people that actually like it and will defend it, but not so for the new Slashdot beta.

Re:What a perfect example of why beta is bad...

[Anonymous Coward]

but not so for the new Slashdot beta

I think that's fear. There are a lot of anti-Beta mod points hunting for unfortunate comments; I have 15 myself. :)

oh, and Fuck Beta.

A real shame.

[simonwalton]

I really hope that someone with the skill and resources is creating an alternative for us all to flock to with a similarly functioning moderation system.

It would be amazing if Apple...

[fabioalcor]

... ah forget about it. FUCK SLASHDOT BETA. The coments aren't even working here, all I've got is a stupid message "Shazbot! We ran into some trouble getting the comments. Try again... na-nu, na-nu!".
Fuck you Dice Holdings.

Fuck Android

[Tailhook]

and Fuck Beta too.

Why would Apple downgrade from iOS to Android? Android works, but iOS is superior, and I say that as a loyal Nexus S/4/5 buyer. I don't even own an iPhone/whatever, but I know Objective-C/iOS/Xcode is an inherently better platform than Android's development stack; it's faster, more stable and easier to target.

Apple doesn't make a lot of bonehead maneuvers and, unlike Dice's attitude towards their CONTRIBUTORS, I expect they value their customers too much to inflict an obvious fail like that.

Sorry Woz, but I think Apple will, and probably should, remain the semi-boutique alternative that it has always been.

As for Slashdot Beta... well, they better take a few steps back and start listening to their contributors; forums are really easy to make. This crufty little corner of the Internets still punches above its weight with genuine nerds, but they're a fickle bunch and they're pissed off something fierce. Mea culpa time; suck it up, find a grown-up on the payroll that knows how to be sincere and has the authority to un-fuck this deal and get him in front of this.

Or not. It's your choice.

Re:Fuck Android

[JustNiz]

>> Android works, but iOS is superior

Not at all. My girlfriend has always been a hardcore apple fan/iPhone user. I've tried using her iphone 5 just to do some relatively simple stuff several times now and always ended up giving up and giving it back to her to get done whatever I needed to do. I think the iPhone user interface is highly unintuitive and a fundamentally terrible design. The screen is also tiny and poky. Since she has seen and tried using my (now relatively old) Samsung S3 even she, the diehard apple fan, can't wait to buy an android phone next.

I've been a mostly C/C++ embedded software dev. for 30 years and recently wrote my first Android phone app. Most of my career has been doing embedded programming on many different platforms and I have to say that eclipse + ADT is probably the slickest/best embedded development environment I've ever seen/used. Java is pretty easy too.

The reason I wrote the phone app was for a startup I'm helping with. We also need to do an iPhone app. To get our iPhone app on iTunes' App Store will be an absolute frickin nightmare compared to the ease of getting our Android version on the Play Store and all the early signs are that the Objective-C/iOS API will be much more of a pain in the ass than the Android API.

Re:Fuck Android

[Anonymous Coward]

I hear a lot of complaining, but zero explanation.

What was the simple stuff you were not able to do with an iPhone 5?

I have been developing for Android and iPhone for 4 years now. What are the early signs that the iOS API will be much worse than Android?

Re:Fuck Android

[Anonymous Coward]

What was the simple stuff you were not able to do with an iPhone 5?

Fixed and lousy keyboard, fixed launcher, very limited sharing between apps.

I have been developing for Android and iPhone for 4 years now. What are the early signs that the iOS API will be much worse than Android?

Bad speech recognition, tons of missing APIs for integrating different apps, intrinsically unsafe Objective-C language, for starters.

Re:Fuck Android

[maccodemonkey]

To get our iPhone app on iTunes' App Store will be an absolute frickin nightmare compared to the ease of getting our Android version on the Play Store and all the early signs are that the Objective-C/iOS API will be much more of a pain in the ass than the Android API.

I know both the Android and iOS APIs.

There are some things each API does better than the other. And one is written in Obj-C and one is written in Java. HOWEVER...

The iOS API is much more consistent than the Android API. Sure, it's Obj-C. And you have to learn Obj-C. And you might complain that Obj-C is new and different and not Java (which does NOT make it a bad language. Different != bad.) But if you know Obj-C, and if you know Java, the iOS API is just generally more sensible and easy to use. I would not define the iOS API as a pain in the ass. You'd call it a pain in the ass, but then again, I know it, and you don't.

The Android API has several advantages. The Activities concept is a nice thing the iOS 6 and later APIs are just starting to play with. But they also make several boneheaded decisions. Rotating the device creates a new activity? WTF? Fragments? Fragments are nice but they're window dressing on a broken concept that iOS at least got right the first time. And native code support on Android is... lacking. Yes, you can technically do it, but not without jumping through a lot of development hoops you don't have to with the iOS tools. It would be nice if Android at least shipped with some Neon optimization code paths. And low latency audio on Android? Nope, still not there. Great if you're playing back or recording an audio file. Not great for much else. And don't get me started on all the bizarre OpenGL issues that iOS doesn't have.

I don't mean to trash on Android too much. What I'm basically saying is I'm having trouble taking this seriously as a level headed comparison when it's basically "I spend a lot of time with Android, I know it, and I like it. I don't know iOS, and it seems totally crazy to me!" The iOS APIs are basically child APIs of what shipped in OS X, and from there what shipped in NeXTStep. A lot of developers have spent a lot of time with the APIs over the last 20 years. It's not like these are bizzaro APIs that came out of nowhere that have never been peer reviewed, iterated on and improved, or worked with for long periods of time. Which is more than I can say for the Android APIs.

Re:Fuck Android

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I tried to delete some apps off an iOS 7 iPhone and was confused as how to do it. Apps are listed under the Settings icon/window/tab/app, but there's no option to delete them.

Turns out you need to hold your finger on the screen until the app icons shake and then you can move/delete them. How is that intuitive?

Word verification: pranks

Re:Fuck Android

[Anonymous Coward]

whooooosh.

and BTW, beta sucks. join the slashcott, everybody.

Re:Fuck Android

[BigZee]

This sounds an awful lot like the arguments I heard in the early 90s on open systems vs proprietary. Your points are all valid but do they make the iOS platform sufficiently better for it to carry on? Given that Android is actively developed, just how long are the advantages you describe going to be an issue?

For now I see Android competing with iOS but I do think it's just a matter of time before there will be no advantage for Apple to continue developing their own OS. Woz is right, Apple could easily find themselves in the same situation as Blackberry and they need to be ready to deal with it.

Re:Fuck Android

[JustNiz]

you guys are wierd.
I appreciate the mod points, but where did you get "funny" from?

Re:Fuck Android

[Anonymous Coward]

... and please please, do go on about the laundry list of problems
you've had with iOS

we'd all like to know this time !

Re:Fuck Android

[david_thornley]

Android and iOS are both being developed, and Apple can throw an awful lot of resources into iOS. I'm really hoping that both stay as viable alternatives for a long time. That keeps each side working hard on making things better for me.

Re:Fuck Android

[maccodemonkey]

This sounds an awful lot like the arguments I heard in the early 90s on open systems vs proprietary. Your points are all valid but do they make the iOS platform sufficiently better for it to carry on? Given that Android is actively developed, just how long are the advantages you describe going to be an issue?

Maybe?

Large chunks of iOS are open source, so I don't know if I buy the "iOS will die because Android has more momentum." Android up until 4.4 was still using iOS's web renderer and JavaScript runtime, and finally in 4.4 they forked it.
http://opensource.apple.com/
(A lot of iOS stuff is in the Mac section.)

The private components of iOS are still being actively developed, and share a lot of foundation with the Mac, which is also being actively developed.

I think, like any platform, continued development of iOS will be reliant on it's market share. If market share dips below 15%, you'll see interest wane. But in the US, majority share is still going back and forth between iOS and Android. Worldwide, we typically see iOS more around the 30% mark, but iOS active usage share and app store activity is far higher. So I think we're looking at years before we settle whether or not Android or iOS will become the only OS worth someone's development time, if that ever gets settled at all. I don't think a Windows style OS monopoly in the OS industry would be good at all. And as Google has taken more share, we've seen them becoming more abusive of their power (such as clamping down on source availability and certification for Android.)

For now I see Android competing with iOS but I do think it's just a matter of time before there will be no advantage for Apple to continue developing their own OS. Woz is right, Apple could easily find themselves in the same situation as Blackberry and they need to be ready to deal with it.

And that is a possibility. But it's also a possibility that Google could stop working on Android. Google gives Android away, makes no money from it, and puts a lot of support into it. I know, similar arguments have been made against Linux, but hear me out... If you're Google, and Android is only being done to keep people on Google services and ads, the best course of action is to hand over Android to Samsung (which, to be frank, is the only Android manufacturer seeing significant adoption), make a services agreement with Samsung, and then re-build their services agreement with Apple. That gives Google %100 share of the market, excluding the insignificant Microsoft bits, and no cost of developing Android.

If you're Apple, that possibility looks ugly enough to keep you developing on iOS. Plus Apple gets the advantage that if they want to build a new device category like a watch or something akin to a new class like a tablet, they have enough expertise and resources in house to rearrange all the OS bits in a way they see fit.

There is also the Mac. Even if Apple dropped iOS in favor of Android, they can't stop developing iOS. iOS is Mac OS X, and Apple still sells Macs. So even if this all plays out the way it all seems to in Woz's head, Apple can't even stop iOS development.

Woz should have understood that, which makes me wonder about him. He's spent enough time at Apple, he understands Apple values knowing and controlling both the software and hardware, and he should understand that iOS and Mac share source and their fates are intertwined. I'm not sure if he realized that advocating for Apple to spin down iOS development isn't possible with the Mac existing. I've previously had a high opinion of Woz, but he's not thinking like an engineer or innovator here, which worries me. Apple adopting Android would make them a lot like Nokia, Dell, or HP. And look where those companies are now. I'm not even sure Woz is correct. If Blackberry had adopted Android would they have survived? Or would they have been run off the market by Samsung like every other company that put their lot in with Android (except for Samsung?)

Re:Fuck Android

[sydbarrett74]

I also observe Google progressively closing off more and more of Android's API's, making iOS comparatively less of a walled garden over time. In that respect, Android's comparative advantage is decreasing steadily.

An example of why Beta is bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Need an example why Beta is bad? Try finding comments relevant to this topic (or any other topic) on Beta, then try it on the normal Slashdot. ... This also means that if the admins are using the Beta layout themselves, they will never find the more detailed complaints and only see "Fuck Beta".

Re:An example of why Beta is bad

[dtfinch]

All these people upset with digg v4 are just a vocal minority trying to ruin the experience for everyone else.

WTF? Beta? Rename: Awesome Big Fuck

[Anonymous Coward]

Who wants to be associated with the "beta" of anything? 1. Rename to "Awesome Big Fuck." 2. Sit back and watch the praise flow in. I'm not a manager but I work for one. I know how these types of decisions are made.

Um Y

[MightyMartian]

es

Just Unlock the iPhone

[Bing Tsher E]

They don't need to port Android to the iPhone. They simply need to unlock the iPhone. It has essentially the same hardware as an Android phone, and I bet cynaogenmod would be running on the iPhone in short order if Apple simply unlocked the bootloader.

One can currently buy a Mac laptop and entirely wipe the MacOS on it and install Windows. This would be the same thing for the iPhone. Let people decide what OS they want to run on their iDevices.

Wouldn't pass testing

[tepples]

If Apple left Apple stuff out of the iDroid, then it more than likely wouldn't pass the Android compatibility tests. This would block applications that rely on things in the CDD over which Apple claims a patent. It would also block a lot of applications that rely on Google Play Services, which are available only on devices whose manufacturer demonstrates conformance to the CDD.

Re:Wouldn't pass testing

[Dcnjoe60]

If Apple left Apple stuff out of the iDroid, then it more than likely wouldn't pass the Android compatibility tests. This would block applications that rely on things in the CDD over which Apple claims a patent. It would also block a lot of applications that rely on Google Play Services, which are available only on devices whose manufacturer demonstrates conformance to the CDD.

What are you talking about. There is nothing stopping Apple creating an Android phone. It could be 100% pure android, just like HTC, Samsung, Motorola and others. Are you thinking that an Apple Android phone would need to be able to run iOS apps? That would be sweet, but that's not a requirement for Apple to sell an Android phone.

Look at it this way, say Apple licenses the Samsung Galaxy 4 to use as it's phone and they slap an Apple logo on it. There is now an Apple Android phone and it hasn't cost Apple one iota of intellectual property or anything else. Granted they probably wouldn't do that, but even if they ported Android to run on the iPhone, they aren't required to release their drivers open source. Even Android has closed source parts.

Re:Wouldn't pass testing

[tepples]

Apple holds patents that it claims cover specific features of Android (the "claimed features"). If Apple were to make and sell an Android device, it could either include the claimed features or remove the claimed features. Were you suggesting that Apple keep or remove the claimed features in its hypothetical Android device?

It could be 100% pure android, just like HTC, Samsung, Motorola and others. Are you thinking that an Apple Android phone would need to be able to run iOS apps?

No. But Android without the claimed features probably wouldn't be able to run Android apps either. A device must pass the Compatibility Test Suite, which tests conformance to the Android Compatibility Definition Document (CDD) published by Google, or it won't get Google Play Services and Google Play Store, which are the closed-source parts of Android. Apple could remove claimed features from its version of Android, but the resulting version of Android would likely fail this test suite.

There is now an Apple Android phone and it hasn't cost Apple one iota of intellectual property or anything else.

Android Open Source Project is distributed to the public under the Apache License 2.0, which states that anybody who redistributes a covered computer program and holds a patent on a feature of the program is required to license these patents at no charge to other users of the same program. If Apple were to distribute Android with the claimed features, Apple would end up licensing its patents on claimed features to the public. This means Apple wouldn't be able to use its patents on claimed features against other device makers anymore because these device makers would be licensees of Apple's patents under the Apache License.

...Exactly

[pr0ntab]

Fuck Beta. FUCK DICE :3

Don't waste time on Android.

[Kazoo the Clown]

I like open source and Linux and all that but Google can't design a worthwhile UI to save their life. I started out with an Android phone and was totally disgusted with it. Switched to an iOS phone and you couldn't pay me enough to go back to Android. I'm normally not an Apple fanboi but for a mobile UI, Android is simply the worst.

Re:Don't waste time on Android.

[Anonymous Coward]

Earlier Android versions, yes. But it's gotten significantly better.. Also being able to customize the home app, keyboard, and customized rom features make it so one can have a superior UI than iOS. At least in my opinion.

Animations, on the other hand, remain far better on iOS.

mystifying... why?

[jinchoung]

android provides two things:

- free, ready to go OS
- app ecosystem

apple already has both. using their existing OS incurs no additional cost. and it is a framework that they already know how to work around.

even if they wanted to make a dirt cheap phone based off of an iphone 3gs, it would be a matter of making hardware that would fit the bill as secondary market product. they ALREADY HAVE the os and ecosystem.

so WHY... in the WORLD... would apple do that? why in the world would woz say that?

and i come at this as a pc user with an android phone... this is truly mystifying.

Re:mystifying... why?

[Anonymous Coward]

even if they wanted to make a dirt cheap phone based off of an iphone 3gs, it would be a matter of making hardware that would fit the bill as secondary market product. they ALREADY HAVE the os and ecosystem.

so WHY... in the WORLD... would apple do that? why in the world would woz say that?

and i come at this as a pc user with an android phone... this is truly mystifying.

This is one big reason why they wont. Apple isn't just a manufacturer/developer, they are a brand that has an iDevice image to uphold. The iPhones sell for 3-4x their cost of parts, and they were flying off the shelves. None of their hardware is particularly special anymore, the price is mostly aesthetics with some strong-armed hardware supplier costs mixed in. The thing is they have such a cult following that they can get away with a 10 MHz upgrade on processor speed and charge another $100 because "it's the new Apple iBrick, oooh shiny 9000 edition".
 
My theory about Woz' train of thought is that the iDevice gravy train is slowing down due to increased, viable, competition. Since the passing of St. Jobs, Apple hasn't had much by way of any absolutely-must-wait-in-line-for-three-days-in-sub-zero-temperatures product releases and is slowly losing their edge. This is a "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" response; Jobs would have declared Woz guilty of treason just for thinking it, Cook may think differently.

Apple Improve the Android Toolchain

[Anonymous Coward]

If they could improve the toolchain for Android development at the same time, especially if it only built apps for their phones, it would be a significant improvement on the toolchain, and a curated store would improve the Android market in Apple's favor.

Boycott the beta Feb 10-17

[ppff]

I really hate this beta. Join the boycott Feb 10-17. If Beta is still here on the 18th I will not return. Do not fix what is not broken.

Not complaining about Beta

[Anonymous Coward]

I think Woz's comments are taken out of context. Apple has nothing to gain from making an Android phone. Only Android has something to gain from it.

What Woz probably meant was make a iPhone that can run Android software. I mean it's not like there is anything special about Android that would prevent it from being able to. Hell Apple could probably make a better Android than any Android OEM. The thinig is that the Android SDK, API's and the entire fragmented ecosystem is just utter hell to develop for and damn near nobody wants to develop for it unless there's a gun to their head (eg Electronic Arts)

Let alone the rampant fragmentation and piracy.

Hahahahahahaha!

[Anonymous Coward]

What was Wozniak drinking that evening? "Nokia" OS on our beloved iSmashers? That will never happen! What a fool he made of himself.

Very true

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess he's a brillant engineer, but often engineers need a businessman at their side for success (and vice versa).

Me to Apple:

[drolli]

License iOS to the competitors, and let them do their own app markets. Other hardware and iOS with a less-cencored market than the app store could brinf mroe money to apple (with less risk and investment) than trying to compete in the Hardware business.

There was a Mac running Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Power Macintosh 6100.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Macintosh_6100

It had a DOS card with a Cyrix processor on it. A friend had one.

that makes about as much sense as Eric Schmidt tea

[vancedecker]

People should stick to what they know. Eric should pursue being an asshole, and Steve should work on his role as perpetual victim.

I think several of the users did a study between t

[vancedecker]

whatever this puke color is called and determined that slashdot would make 200,000,000 dollars if they switched to a blue theme.

He should take all that apple money and start a co

[vancedecker]

I hear it's going to be big.

To have wasted such a large base of completely del

[vancedecker]

who were pathologically loyal, and utterly confused as to their actual level of tech savvy, should be criminal. In the future, corporate courts will prosecute this type of behavior.

My friend had to return his iphone because he said

[vancedecker]

Normally, I would laugh on the inside, but it turns out he was totally ahead everyone on the whole gluten craze, so basically...you might be on to something.

1995: "Unbundle The OS, 2014: "Unbundle The H/w"

[cmholm]

The margins on Android phones are razor thin. Apple has complete control over the iPhone, giving them a plausible rationale for marketing a premium phone. If they release an Android phone, that rationale evaporates.

How well has Nokia made out since dumping Symbion and MeeGo for someone else's OS? Yeah, that bad.

The hardest skill is knowing when to leave the par

[vancedecker]

Steve became the change. "Oh wow, Oh wow, Oh wow" While your false messiah is working all his 'miracles' through his foundation, such as, the miracle of the H1B visa increase, and the miracle of the blocky user interface from ten years ago, ours has long since ascended. ...and through his sacrifice allowed others to rise and grow, unlike that old carcass.

CUNTS!

[Anonymous Coward]

All you spammers should kill yourselves.

Article is troll

[Anonymous Coward]

Article is obvious Slashdit troll and everybody discusses Beta website version.

That's why it's good that Woz isn't CEO of Apple.

[Qbertino]

That's why it's good (for Apple) that Woz isn't and never was CEO of Apple. He obviously has absolutely not the faintest idea what he is talking about marketing and business-wise. I use Android for my phone and tablet, just recently backed off of buying an iPad Mini for development because it was to expensive ... and even *I* get the value-add that the sophisticated iOS devices bring along.

Apple should stick right where they are, perhaps move in closer with the opinion leaders a little again. Like XCode for free and without registration, direct access to iOS devices and filesystem, direct deployment of apps to iOS devices and some other stuff that's pissing of the top 0.2 % expertlayer of computer users, i.e. us, with Apple. That would be about all the changes I would make if I were in charge.

The rest is going absolutely perfect for Apple, a fashion mindshare Google, Samsung, MS and others would kill for and bizar gros margins of 30%+ on post-PC devices included. Thinking of bringing Android into that picture makes me cringe - and I'm not even an Apple Fanboy.

My 2 cents.

What a n00b

[Anonymous Coward]

You do realize that you can actually filter out based on +1, +2 etc. don't you? The cog wheel on the right by the insightful,funny tabs, have you clicked it?

All the people condemning the beta should be shot for being so darn set in yesterday mode that they cannot see the benefits of the new sight. This is a classic case of update blues .... seen this time and again when no training is provided with new software.

Grow up you lot and remember that the guys a /. are trying there best here to provide something of better value.

Re:What a n00b

[Dcnjoe60]

Too bad you posted as an AC, I would have modded you up. I have a policy, though, to only mod up people who are not ACs.

Re:What a n00b

[Anonymous Coward]

Why? (fuck beta)

Best of both worlds

[allo]

Superior Software combined with superior hardware.

In corporate America

[Anonymous Coward]

In corporate America, the beta fucks you.

BlackBerry 10 Android

[acoustix]

And BB 10 > iOS.

Seriously. Give BB 10 a try. It's clean, responsive and secure. Plus with the latest 10.2.1 OS you can load Android APK files directly on the device. It really is a solid platform.

Re:BlackBerry 10 Android

[acoustix]

WTF? The subject was supposed to be "BlackBerry 10 > Android". Thanks a lot Slashdot.

Sig

[Dcnjoe60]

I like you sig, however, I would be remiss to say that PL/1 helped put my kids through school, so I question whether it was a total loss.

Jobs is a more typical father in other ways.

[Anonymous Coward]

he drove his own kid to school every day on the way to work, not too many fathers did that.

But he was more than willing to deny Lisa as being his daughter.

Just like plenty of Dads in paternity cases.

Re:Jobs is a more typical father in other ways.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm no fan of Jobs (quite the opposite, I found him often insufferable), but unless you've got proof or at least significant evidence otherwise, I'm willing to believe him on this issue, if only because the courts are so utterly biased against fathers in the US that I can't imagine him actually being the father and somehow being able to avoid the wrath of the courts.

Just like plenty of Dads in paternity cases

Bullshit. You can deny it until you're red in the face, you're guilty until proven innocent in the modern court of parentship. If you don't take a paternity test, you're paying child support. And if you take a paternity test and you're proven not to be the father, you still might end up paying child support. That's how fucked up our system is. But God forbid you actually want to parent your child and the woman is opposed to it; there's no way in hell you're getting within a hundred miles of the kid.

Re:That's why it's good that Woz isn't CEO of Appl

[twocows]

He didn't say they should stop selling iOS devices, he said they should start selling Android devices as well. Your post seems to be predicated on the idea that Woz thinks they should stop selling iOS devices, which he never said. But maybe I misunderstood you.

They can't give up control

[AJH16]

I'm sure that an Android phone made by Apple would be a radical success in the market, but it is unlikely to be successful enough to make up for the vertical integration control that Apple has over iOS. The point of the iPhone and iPad has nothing to do with selling iPhones or iPads. The point of selling them is to get an Apple controlled system in the hands of users which they can then leverage to get money for everything someone does with their device.

They get a major cut of music, books, videos, apps, etc that you get through your phone or tablet, even for ad revenue from free apps. This and access to the information the devices provide is what makes them as successful as they are. This is why Microsoft released Windows 8 on the world (to try and copy the vertical integration through Metro.) And this is why Apple can not afford to release an Android phone, because it would actually harm their bottom line more than the sales would help.

Re:They can't give up control

[beefoot]

Never say never. Their market share (iphone and various sizes of its cousin) are down and there is no way it will ever go back up. The next thing we know, iphone market share will be down to single digit. Of course the company will continue doing well for the years to come. Look at blackberry, their major break through was with RIM 950. It took them 12-15 years to collapse. The market is more competitive now. I'm betting Apple has at least 7-8 years of time left if they don't do anything -- i.e. we will continue seeing record profits year after year until the end its sudden death.

Re:They can't give up control

[AJH16]

Yes, but until they can no longer get content to sell to their customer base at ridiculous margins, it will still be more profitable to keep whatever % of the market they have on their platform than to risk losing some to their own Android platform. By the time it breaks down significantly enough, the market share won't be big enough to matter particularly much as they will have lost relevance.

Not that they couldn't surprise me and do that now that Jobs isn't behind the wheel any more and so there isn't a trend to look at for them, but until a lot of factors change, it isn't in their best interest to make an Android device (which demonstrates yet again why Woz is not a business guy.) It still amazes me he managed to stay around Apple as long as he did given how juxtaposed Jobs desire to control was to Woz's desire to make technology work.

SD cards, USB flash drives, and cameras

[tepples]

You need FAT support if you want to be able to mount an SD card that the user has inserted (which likely was already formatted as FAT), mount a USB flash drive that the user has connected (which likely was already formatted as FAT), or mount the storage of a digital camera that the user has connected (which likely was already formatted as FAT).

Steve Jobs ...

[Rambo Tribble]

... would be aghast at such heresy. This calls for a public stoning! Anyone know where to get some Orange Sunshine?

Sure, now let's EVERYONE make Android phones.

[RocRizzo]

It's not like they are the least secure mobile OS out there. Let's make it easier for the bass turds making malware to grab naive people's money!

Bad Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Woz is the technologist. Jobs was the businessman. Nuff said.

reply to comment

[Anonymous Coward]

tanks

Re:1995: "Unbundle The OS, 2014: "Unbundle The H/w

[Anonymous Coward]

Key phrase was "secondary phone market".

This could be a smart play to mitigate risk as long as they didn't dilute their brand.

OS != device

[globaljustin]

Today users can switch to an IOS device.

and here we have it...you've shown us the source of 10^10 fanboi message board arguments...

iOS & Android are **operating systems**

iPhone, etc. are **devices**

if Apple let users run Android on their Apple devices, they would indeed be **one click** away from switching

they wouldn't **have to buy a new phone** because they are already using an Apple **device**

Re:OS != device

[rjstanford]

Today users can switch to an IOS device.

and here we have it...you've shown us the source of 10^10 fanboi message board arguments...

iOS & Android are **operating systems**

iPhone, etc. are **devices**

if Apple let users run Android on their Apple devices, they would indeed be **one click** away from switching

they wouldn't **have to buy a new phone** because they are already using an Apple **device**

And the same argument would let people switch to any other android device just as easily.

Besides, the reason that Apple delivers a premium experience is that they're neither a hardware vendor, nor an OS vendor, nor a software company. They're a Solutions Provider, and it shows. They offer - or attempt to offer - a tightly integrated experience between the hardware, OS, and userland software. Changing that experience would be corporate suicide.

we make websites

[globaljustin]

you know this is /. right?

someone on here probably *invented* the term 'beta' for tech usage...

alot of us are web coders...we know these problems because we deal with them every day...the problems in current web site design I mentioned are legit problems that hurt our industry & make people stupider for having visited a website (at times yes this happens)

we've done redesigns...we've had clients listen to us & clients who want the worst...now we see what is essentially our worst nightmare played out before our very eyes and commenting is the only way we can possibly stop it

Love Beta!

[Anonymous Coward]

Really really really. Now /. is actually readable!

Great

[Anonymous Coward]

Now Apple will be able to spy on android users as wel as googles.

marketing horseshit

[globaljustin]

they're neither a hardware vendor, nor an OS vendor, nor a software company. They're a Solutions Provider, and it shows

'Solutions Provider'

the term offends me...it's stupid marketing-style bullshit

do they sell hardware? then they're a damn hardware vendor

do they write software? then the're an OS vendor

do you make stupid distinctions with marketing words that make no sense to the conversation? yes

please, i know i'm spouting vitriol here but you must consider what i'm saying....you need to adjust your view of how the tech industry works

hype is always bullshit...always...

people like Steve Jobs talk alot of hype & that's what they're known for, but its not what made them successful

Re:marketing horseshit

[rjstanford]

On the contrary. No single component of the hardware, OS, or software on the iPhone was particularly revolutionary. Putting them together into a single, coherent, supported package was the step that made all the difference. Taking ownership of everything throughout the interaction chain is what allows Apple (and others, but this example is about Apple) to deliver a single high-quality experience, and their adoption rates show it.

You can have great hardware, a great OS, and great software that don't quite jibe together and you end up with great specs on paper but devices that feel unnatural and eventually get left in a drawer. Its a very real problem in the industry. Fixing those continuity errors and adding reasonable sales and support services (for the price) was a game-changer.

BTW, I've been in the tech industry for close on 25 years from peon to CTO - pretty sure I'm okay with my views on it. You don't have to share them, of course.