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IBM Looking To Sell Its Semiconductor Business

jfruh writes "Having already gotten out of the low-end server market, IBM appears to be trying to get out of the chip business as well. The company currently manufactures Power Architecture chips for its own use and for other customers. Big Blue wants to sell off its manufacturing operations, but will continue to design its own chips."

195 comments

  1. That's a surprise move by cold+fjord · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I thought IBM was able to leverage their detailed knowledge of their semiconductor processes to squeeze every bit of performance they can out of their Power architecture designs, and even tweak the processes to aid them. I doubt they will have enough volume for another company to do much of that unless they are willing to pay.

    --
    much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    1. Re:That's a surprise move by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It also seems a bit weird because the merchant foundry business isn't exactly facing a worldwide shortage of fabless companies, or demand for their designs burned into silicon(and, unlike AMD, IBM isn't having its face held underwater and being allowed to flop around just enough to satisfy the FTC, so they presumably aren't facing an impossible capital crunch). I'd also assume that IBM would be better placed than many to grab the (probably low volume; but nice margin) Must Be Red, White, and Blue and More American Than Mom's Apple Pie fab jobs. They've got domestic facilities, and have been doing assorted DoD and fed work longer than most of us have been alive.

      Have they recently acquired new executives that are hellbent on selling absolutely everything that isn't mainframes and $$$$$/hour consultants?

    2. Re:That's a surprise move by afidel · · Score: 5, Informative

      Have they recently acquired new executives that are hellbent on selling absolutely everything that isn't mainframes and $$$$$/hour consultants?

      Yes, their previous CEO made a stupid goal of $20 operating EPS by 2015 and the new CEO seems to be hell bent on hitting that target, whether that's from an incentive program or ego talking I'm not sure.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    3. Re:That's a surprise move by mlts · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I just don't get IBM's motive. In the past, they were a one stop shop for a business. Yes, expensive, but no matter what broke, be it software, hardware, or the application, the IBM CE either could fix, or could get someone on the line who would be able to deal with the problem.

      Then they sold most everything.

      Other than becoming a new EDS with mainframes, what is IBM going to gain by this long-term strategy? Each market they hand over is one that could end up a bonanza should a trend change in the IT world. Storage and SSD come to mind.

      Going to just mainframes won't help much -- zSeries machines are still the best hardware out there, but not everyone needs Parallel Sysplex, and a lot of companies are moving to Facebook's model of running with a craptastic generic hardware stack, with all the redundancy in the backend application programming.

      PS: #insert grumble about beta here.

    4. Re:That's a surprise move by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      > I just don't get IBM's motive. In the past, they were a one stop shop for a business.
      > Yes, expensive, but no matter what broke, be it software, hardware, or the application,
      > the IBM CE either could fix, or could get someone on the line who would be able to deal with the problem.

      Given that IBM is selling or has sold it's Microcomputer business, it's Server hardware business, and now it's Semiconductor business . . .

      . . . and given IBM's recent patent lawsuit against Twitter . . .

      maybe IBM is getting into the Patent Trolling business?

      I don't know. Just sayin'

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    5. Re:That's a surprise move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The cost of a new state-of-the-art facility has crossed the $3B to $4B mark and even companies like TSMC and GlobalFoundries (AMD spin-off) are having a hard time with the capital required to keep pace. Intel currently is the undisputed leader in terms of process and technology and has the financial muscle and discipline to make the technology investments to keep that edge. They are also taking baby steps into the "Must Be Red, White, and Blue and More American Than Mom's Apple Pie fab jobs."

      My guess is IBM looked and realized they couldn't compete.

    6. Re:That's a surprise move by alexander_686 · · Score: 1

      I think you can still do that – IBM engineers sitting down with the foundry engineers.

      The problem is that the fab plants are really big and massively efficient. IIRC Intel said that would only need to build a single (billion dollar?) fab plant for its next generation of chips. They are going to build more than that because they don’t want all of their eggs in one basket but you get the idea. At some point it is the costs of out outsourcing the production is going to be less than the costs of running a single small inefficient plant.

    7. Re:That's a surprise move by unixisc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is sad. I remember when IBM came out w/ some great innovations like the copper process. It's also disappointing to see even fewer, rather than more fabs. Yeah, I know that the costs are astronomical, but converting such a market into an Intel monopoly is a cause for concern

      Also, once that's gone, it will be the end of the road for Power as well: as it is, Freescale has all but abandoned it, the console guys have abandoned it and now it's IBM itself. An independent fab won't free up space for IBM's Power if there are more lucrative chips available - particularly in volume. Only reason SPARC is alive is really Fujitsu, and Itanic is almost dead. Power being gone would leave only MIPS for the embedded space, and Xeon/Opteron for the server space. I doubt that ARM8 will have a significant role there.

    8. Re:That's a surprise move by ebno-10db · · Score: 2

      maybe IBM is getting into the Patent Trolling business?

      They've been in that business for decades. I read one of the Sun founders talking about the shakedown they got from IBM around 30 years ago.

    9. Re:That's a surprise move by egcagrac0 · · Score: 1

      maybe IBM is getting into the Patent Trolling business?

      This is remarkably insightful.

      Selling products and services is boring. The protection racket ("pay us and we won't sue you") should be similarly lucrative, with less overhead.

    10. Re:That's a surprise move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd also assume that IBM would be better placed than many to grab the (probably low volume; but nice margin) Must Be Red, White, and Blue and More American Than Mom's Apple Pie fab jobs.

      Intel is opening it's fab to the foundry market.

    11. Re:That's a surprise move by afidel · · Score: 1

      Hell, even Intel is putting off equipping Fab 42 due to slack global demand and the huge $5B+ cost.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    12. Re:That's a surprise move by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      It's also very expensive to run a fab if you don't have the volumes to run it at full capacity.
      You've also got to keep pumping in billions to keep up with the latest in process technology. Again, not worth it without the volume. They've lost Apple products to Intel and the XBox 360, and the PS3 successors have gone to AMD.

    13. Re: That's a surprise move by Mabhatter · · Score: 1

      According to the Lego Movie $$$$ is $37 for coffee. So $$$$$ should be what?

      Come on nerds!! This stuff matters!!

    14. Re:That's a surprise move by RamiKro · · Score: 1

      Why is everyone so reluctant to consider that IBM's engineers have come across the same issues in the 14 nm and below scale as Intel. But, IBM being a more diverse business, have decided if it can't compete in 3-5 years time, they might as well sell off now while there are still interested buyers?
      Simply put, maybe the linear progression in the development of the silicon chip fabrication processes has reached it's end or is about to?

      On the other hand, we could be more optimistic and say IBM has reached a huge breakthrough with such a different process that all their current facilities are obsolete. But I prefer my science fiction of grim dark variety ;)

    15. Re:That's a surprise move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are doing what one of my old employers did, they had a bunch of different divisions making stuff and decided to divest themselves of all of them to "focus on their core business" - or, as we used to put it, "focus on their core business - of going out of business".

      Used to be a family/founder run company, then the founders both died and the family sold it off to 'investors', who promptly shredded it into pieces they sold off... and now, well, almost 30 years later from when I started there (think it was founded in the 1940's during WWII), it's pretty much a one building company (in the US) that mostly seems to sell spare parts for their old equipment (what they kept of the 'core business'), and if they still build anything it's 'made in China'.

    16. Re:That's a surprise move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps the process collaboration IBM is involved with few others is producing sufficiently good output at this point.

    17. Re:That's a surprise move by SolitaryMan · · Score: 1

      Nowadays IBM is just an IT consulting company. Good for them that they have realized it fast enough and got rid of all the ballast.

      --
      May Peace Prevail On Earth
    18. Re:That's a surprise move by waveman · · Score: 1

      > long-term

      I see the subtle flaw in your thinking. Anything that happens post the current CEO's tenure is discounted to zero. If doing this would cause the earth to fall into the Sun in 10 years, it would still happen.

    19. Re:That's a surprise move by Doghouse13 · · Score: 1

      The IBM of today is a slow-motion train-wreck that too many business people haven't tumbled to yet. At the executive level it hasn't been about the computer business for a couple of decades; it's simply about screwing as much money as possible out of anywhere it can be found, and damn the consequences. If that means selling off the family silver, that's what will happen.

    20. Re:That's a surprise move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then they sold most everything. = Asset stripping.

    21. Re:That's a surprise move by Reziac · · Score: 1

      Hmm. I think IBM stock might be in for another crash, temporary but significant, just like it did 20-some years ago.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    22. Re:That's a surprise move by ButchDeLoria · · Score: 1

      So IBM's gonna try to play the SCO game?

  2. slashdot beta is dying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    source: http://pastebin.com/eyQ9mSnn

      It is now official. Netcraft has confirmed: slashdot beta is dying

                    One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered slashdot beta community when IDC confirmed that slashdot beta market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that slashdot beta has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. slashdot beta is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last [samag.com] in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

                    You don't need to be the Amazing Kreskin [amazingkreskin.com] to predict slashdot beta's future. The hand writing is on the wall: slashdot beta faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for slashdot beta because slashdot beta is dying. Things are looking very bad for slashdot beta. As many of us are already aware, slashdot beta continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

                    Dice.com is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time Dice.com developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: Dice.com is dying.

                    Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

                    Slashdot beta leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of slashdot beta. How many users of Dice.com are there? Let's see. The number of Dice.com versus slashdot beta posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 Dice.com users. Slashdot beta on Usenet are about half of the volume of Dice.com posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of Dice.com. A recent article put Dice.com at about 80 percent of the slashdot beta market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 Dice.com users. This is consistent with the number of Dice.com Usenet posts.

                    Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, Dice.com went out of business and was taken over by Reddit who sell another troubled OS. Now Dice.com is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

                    All major surveys show that slashdot beta has steadily declined in market share. slashdot beta is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If slashdot beta is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. slashdot beta continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, slashdot beta is dead.

  3. Describe IBM in three words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Circling the bowl.

    1. Re:Describe IBM in three words by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      Patent Trolling Entity

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    2. Re:Describe IBM in three words by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      India Business Machines.

  4. Beta delenda est! by emmagsachs · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Nobody buys Playboy for the articles. They do it for the hot, nude women (sadly, sans grits). It just so happens that /. is exactly the same. No one reads /. for the articles. The articles were news two days ago. And no one reads /. for the summaries. The summaries are almost always wrong.

    Everyone reads /. for the comments. The comments are the /. equivalent of Playboy's naked chicks, with one crucial difference. Without the gentlemen at Playboy, there will be no naked chicks to look at. The service they provide is, for the most part, finding women that will agree to pose nude for pictures, which they most graciously distribute to their readers.

    But as for Slashdot -- the good people at Dice and their "editorial" team do diddly squat around here to generate content. The articles, old as they may be, are submitted by the users. The summaries, mistaken as they may be, are provided by the users, not by Timothy, Soulskill, et al. The comments, trollish as they may be, are written by the users.

    /. is of the users, by the users, for the users. The only people at Dice who deserve their paycheck are the IT people. The rest of you -- what is it that you do for our benefit? Why the hell do we need you clowns? Your music's bad and you should feel bad!

    Beta delenda est!

    1. Re:Beta delenda est! by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Nobody buys Playboy for the articles. They do it for the hot, nude women (sadly, sans grits). It just so happens that /. is exactly the same.

      Yes, but we have grits.

      And forks. Just sayin' If the pitchforks won't win, the code fork will.

    2. Re:Beta delenda est! by emmagsachs · · Score: 1

      Now there's a turn of phrase!

    3. Re:Beta delenda est! by rolfwind · · Score: 1

      I thought with the onset of internet porn, people who keep buying playboy are actually doing it for the articles.

      And lets get real, the babes in there aren't that hot.

  5. What's left? by MobyDisk · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I know of IBM as a:
    - Desktop PC manufacturer
    - Server manufacturer
    - Chip manufacturer

    If they don't have those 3 things any more, then what are they? To my knowledge, IBM has some of the best fabs in the world. It's amazing to me that this is not part of their core business. This is... wow... just wow.

    1. Re:What's left? by DougOtto · · Score: 4, Informative

      IBM is primarily a professional services company. They've been evolving into that for years.

      --
      Solving Unix problems since 1989...
    2. Re:What's left? by cold+fjord · · Score: 2

      They have a large consulting arm - IBM Global Services. (Not sure if that is still the name.)

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    3. Re:What's left? by Third+Position · · Score: 5, Funny

      Kind of like watching fingers fall off of a leper, isn't it?

      --
      American Third Position
      Finally, a real choice!
    4. Re:What's left? by alen · · Score: 1

      they sell lots of overpriced software like Cognos that is a huge PITA to set up, use, support and you need a maintenance contract since the documentation is crappola

      dozens and dozens of other business software that they sell including 2 different database products that no one seems to use.

    5. Re:What's left? by moogla · · Score: 2

      IBM's consulting services and design expertise on the big iron side is where all the money is. All the money in that they are the highest margin portions of the business and they get to set prices (very little meaningful competition, lots of opportunity for lockin)

      I'd love to explain it by way of analogy, but I don't want to stretch the concept of the fuck beta too thin, and car analogies are so last decade. Let's just say IBM wants to advise you on how you can escape from slashdot beta into their loving arms.

      --
      Black holes are where the Matrix raised SIGFPE
    6. Re:What's left? by hrvatska · · Score: 1

      IBM has a huge software group.

    7. Re:What's left? by schneidafunk · · Score: 2

      IBM stands for International Business Machines. They most certainly have evolved and will continue to do so, but their origins are quite fascinating and rooted in mechanics. Most importantly, the punch card system used for the 1900 census pretty much launched the success of IBM.

      --
      Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
    8. Re:What's left? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      They are spending a huge amount of money on advancing Watson right now. The intention seems obvious to me: Advance the technology to the point where, even if not a true science-fictiony AI, it can be applied to solving a lot of practical business situations. Then sell Watson not as a product but as a service - the technology isn't going to be usable without some highly trained specialists to maintain it. Think call-center positions: A rack of servers running it could take the place of hundreds of front-line telephone operators, and anything Watson can't handle can still be passed through to the humans at second-line. Or specialized search engines - how many legal firms would pay for access to a service where one could ask the computer 'Analyse this brief and tell me of any previous similar cases?' IBM won't be running that, but they'll be supplying the technology to whoever does.

      Between the sale of manufacturing and their substantial R&D investment in Watson technology, it appears they are betting the company on being a support services provider in future.

    9. Re:What's left? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which make first-rate crap. Lowest-rate quality. Only useable if supported by IBM engineers.

      Evil MS is superb compared to IBM crapware.

    10. Re:What's left? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I swear, after reading some of these comments you'd think these people around here never heard of DB2, Tivoli, Cognos, Lotus, Rational, WebSphere, Informix, etc etc etc..
       
      I guess most of the TechTV crowd never sees what really drives the larger world of computing.

    11. Re:What's left? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IBM is primarily a professional services company. They've been evolving into that for years.

      That is a great field to be in, but it requires expertise.
      Those other fields doesn't only build computers, they also build know-how and makes sure that there are people within the company that knows the details.

      Without those the knowledge of the workers at IBM will be what they acquire when they provide services. Ten years from now they will have no competitive advantage to any other gigolo.

    12. Re:What's left? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 3, Funny

      IBM stands for International Business Machines.

      Actually, for the employees, IBM also stood for "I've Been Moved", as in, "transferred".

      Now I guess they have changed that to "IBS", as in, "I've Been Sold".

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    13. Re:What's left? by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      That. That's about the image that got on my head.

      Except that they claim to be healty.

      Beta addendum: I'm waiting for an anouncement that classic won't go away, if it does not come, count me back into the complaining crowd.

    14. Re:What's left? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IBM is primarily a professional services company. They've been evolving into that for years.

      Why is it "professional services" sounds so much like whore ?

    15. Re:What's left? by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      Personaly, I want them to say "we wont force the new site on you before we have an acceptable redesign, and we want your opinion on what's acceptable".

      I parse what they said as "we see you are complaining, we'll try to polish it a bit if it's easy, and only then throw classic away", what's only milimeters from a plain "fuck you, you'll get it wanting or not". I'm wiling to not go away or troll the comments for a small while waiting for them to rectify that message. But it's clear that they just don't get it, so I'll be surprised if they actualy do the right thing.

    16. Re:What's left? by marcosdumay · · Score: 2

      Oh, we know it. That's exactly why we active ignore IBM software.

    17. Re:What's left? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know DB/2. Craptastic without an IBM sales engineer. Won't run properly out of the box.

      I used Purify. Clusterfuck to just get a license running. Not better than valgrind, costs 1200 Euros/year.

      I used AIX and POWER machines. Excellent stuff. Fast, reliable, all things nicely done. Good xlcr C++ compiler.

      I used S/390 machinery briefly. Worse crap than DB/2. Green like banana and will ripe at YOUR site instead of IBM labs.

      Lotus Notes - made by aliens to torture homo sapiens. Thank god it was killed by Outlook at my current job. For extra sadism, try to use it on Linux.

      They simply cannot compete except in their POWER/AIX line.

    18. Re:What's left? by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      > If they don't have those 3 things any more, then what are they?

      A major patent holder. I hear the patent trolling business is a growth industry.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    19. Re:What's left? by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2

      from what I can tell, much (most?) of ibm, these days, is all outsourced labor. I have never, once, gotton a reply to a job posting from IBM. not even a thankyou letter for applying. and I've applied to some jobs that were a near copy of my resume/background. problem is: I'm US born and raised and therefore, not 'cheap labor' for them.

      IBM fired a lot of US folks a few yrs ago and sent all the jobs to india.

      IBM can go fuck themselves, for all I care, now.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    20. Re:What's left? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dice already said they need to redesign the beta. What more do you want from them, blood? So lay off with the immature "Waaaahhh...they aren't doing what I want them to."

      Awww, and you believed their management speak. Isn't that just precious.

    21. Re:What's left? by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

      IBM has a huge software group...

      Based in Bangalore...

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    22. Re:What's left? by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      > They have a large consulting arm - IBM Global Services. (Not sure if that is still the name.)

      Yeah. It's full of 3rd party contractors.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    23. Re:What's left? by ebno-10db · · Score: 3, Insightful

      IBM stands for International Business Machines.

      Close, but it's now India Business Machines.

    24. Re:What's left? by ebno-10db · · Score: 1

      Why is it "professional services" sounds so much like whore ?

      Don't insult honest hard-working prostitutes.

    25. Re:What's left? by Honclfibr · · Score: 1

      Don't forget Typewriter manufacturer!

    26. Re:What's left? by serbanp · · Score: 1

      That's why they're called IBM (International or India, pick your choice) and not ABM.

    27. Re:What's left? by hendrips · · Score: 2

      According to Motley Fool, only 14% of IBM's sales are from hardware. And that 14% is including the x86 server business that they just sold. And yet, between 2002 and 2012, their sales grew 28% and their earnings per share grew a whopping 7x (total earnings grew much less because of huge share buybacks, but it's earnings per share that matter). IBM is a software and services company. They keep selling some "big iron" to promote lock-in for their software and services - essentially their hardware is the corporate version of Amazon's Kindle Fire. Cool stuff like Watson notwithstanding, IBM usually tends to dump hardware divisions around the time when that division can no longer provide any reliable software or services lock-in.

    28. Re:What's left? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IBM stands for International Business Machines.

      Actually, for the employees, IBM also stood for "I've Been Moved", as in, "transferred".

      Now I guess they have changed that to "IBS", as in, "I've Been Sold".

      Ive also heard Im By Myself by their employees

    29. Re:What's left? by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      Rational? Are you kidding? ClearCase is an utter abomination.

    30. Re:What's left? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IBS == Irritable Bowel Syndrome

    31. Re:What's left? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really that's not the case. I'm an employee of IBM's Software Group and I'm on the East Coast. More often than not, if I have to talk to somebody in India, it's a client.

    32. Re:What's left? by AnalogDiehard · · Score: 1

      IBM stands for International Business Machines.

      Actually, for the employees, IBM also stood for "I've Been Moved", as in, "transferred".
      Now I guess they have changed that to "IBS", as in, "I've Been Sold".

      "I Bought a Mac"

      That REALLY ruffled some feathers in the halls at IBM :)

      --
      Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
    33. Re:What's left? by armanox · · Score: 1

      I've also heard them say "I've been mistaken"

      --
      I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
    34. Re:What's left? by armanox · · Score: 1

      The iSeries line (previously AS/400) are pretty tough boxes.

      --
      I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
    35. Re:What's left? by OricAtmos48K · · Score: 1

      No, it is IBM Business Machines

    36. Re:What's left? by bored · · Score: 1

      they sell lots of overpriced software like Cognos that is a huge PITA to set up, use, support and you need a maintenance contract since the documentation is crappola

      That pretty much describes the entire mainframe business. The technology has evolved but its still managed like it was in the 1970's, which as you can imagine is a nightmare. Imagine a modern piece of hardware with hundreds of CPUs/etc managed like a early 80's era DOS machine where you have a:-zz:, have to set all the IRQ's of your hundreds of devices by hand, and everything is managed using an early version of edlin and text files. Plus, you have to hack the OS in assembly to do simple things like roll your logs or get notification of certain events.

      Its been a joke where I work that the zSeries is IBM's contribution to creating a jobs program to boost employment because things that take 30 seconds in vmware or with a modern OS can take days with z/vm or z/OS. Just installing and configuring the OS for basic operation can take weeks unless you clone an existing system.

    37. Re:What's left? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Soon to be India Business Men if this goes ahead

  6. Beta by mwecksell · · Score: 0

    Maybe Dice could sell it's slashdot business to someone who'll roll back the beta...

  7. America in decline ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    And yet another American innovator who actually built things is getting out of the business.

    America has tied her fortunes to copyright, patents, and 'knowledge' workers -- while simultaneously mostly switching to H1Bs, corporations which don't actually do anything, and a complete loss of manufacturing.

    America is becoming a country which is staking its real economy on virtual things, and is slowly losing capacity and competitiveness on the world stage.

    Fix this shit now, or in 15 years there won't be any domestic jobs, skills, or point. If you continue on this current trend, the actual economy of the US will be completely gutted and propped up with things which look good on paper but really have no value.

    1. Re:America in decline ... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      Manufacturing left America because China et al are cheaper. They are cheaper because they have minimal environmental regulations, a huge pool of labor willing to work for starvation wages, no workers' rights and no health-and-safety.

      The only way you're bringing manufacturing back is either blatant protectionism (which would be a diplomatic mess and likely result in retaliatory action in kind) or to beat China at their own game by returning to the days when many employees worked sixteen-hour days just to cover the rent, occasionally losing a hand in the machines was an acceptable risk and major cities were often covered by lethal levels of smog.

    2. Re:America in decline ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Capitalism and globalization make for a wonderful mix. Our country has to move away from being dominated by these two, or your comments will be exactly correct. In your future scenario, we are assimilated, bought out and owned by others. Or defeated by economic embargo, because we don't make anything anymore.

    3. Re:America in decline ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Or use robots. It costs less to have an automatic plant in usa than an automated or manual factory in china.

    4. Re:America in decline ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am sure Lord Protector John Cromwell will fix things.

    5. Re:America in decline ... by prefec2 · · Score: 0

      Capitalism will have many additional crises in future. The will be in the next 2-4 years due to the combined bubble building efforts of FED, ECB, and the national bank of Japan. And we will have more of these crises inline every one more intense than the one before until states can no longer bail out the economy and have to cut their debt. To be more precise invalidate all state debt papers. Further down the road, the limitations in natural and renewable resources will have an impact on those who believe in unlimiting growth which they measure in currency, which is artificially created.

      However, we are stuck with the present system as long as we cannot come up with a new one. And past implementation of this other globalization oriented economic model, called communism, did not work out either. Due to bad management and lack of democracy.

    6. Re:America in decline ... by GlennC · · Score: 2

      to beat China at their own game by returning to the days when many employees worked sixteen-hour days just to cover the rent, occasionally losing a hand in the machines was an acceptable risk and major cities were often covered by lethal levels of smog.

      In other words, the Republican Party's economic plan.

      ...and by the way, I don't like the new Slashdot Beta layout either.

      --
      Go on, citizen, stamp the vote card. R or D, your choice.
  8. Re:Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - 2 by gtall · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Dice already said they need to redesign the beta. What more do you want from them, blood? So lay off with the immature "Waaaahhh...they aren't doing what I want them to."

  9. Fun Fact about IBM by korbulon · · Score: 1

    IBM helped the Nazis with the punchcard technology used to keep track of prisoners in concentration camps during WWII:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...

    1. Re:Fun Fact about IBM by Dekonega · · Score: 1

      IBM helped the Nazis with the punchcard technology used to keep track of prisoners in concentration camps during WWII:

      Not IBM itself but its german daughter subsidary at the nazi germany. Parent company probably did knew what their subsidary was doing but since it was profitable for them they didn't ask unnecessary questions. Officially the machines were used in a similar manner in all over the world to count population. There was nothing suspicious about that. I mean, it was a complete surprice for the allied troops to even find out that there were such work camps in existance. Retropespectively IBM did wrong though. And its undeniable that they had a role in the big picture. But stating that IBM directly took part in the genocide by helping nazis and knew about that on top of that too is just stating too much. Where's the evidence to support that?

    2. Re:Fun Fact about IBM by korbulon · · Score: 1

      Not saying they actively participated, merely pointing out that for the sake of a few measly bucks they turned a very blind eye to one of the greatest atrocities ever committed on the face of the planet, thus, in contrast to their recent claims, making a dumber planet. But a lot of companies did this then and continue to thrive to this very day (lookin' at you UBS), so I guess it's OK.

    3. Re:Fun Fact about IBM by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      . . . the same Nazis that later helped us later to get to the moon:

      "The Russians put our camera made by our German scientists and your film made by your German scientists into their satellite made by their German scientists.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    4. Re:Fun Fact about IBM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody ever got accused of war crimes for buying IBM!

    5. Re:Fun Fact about IBM by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Racism including antisemitism was quite acceptable before WW2 all over the west. Hitler tried a few solutions before finalizing on the "final solution" starting out with simply exiling the undesirables. No one took them in, there were ship loads of Jews traveling around the worlds oceans looking for a country that would let them in and none did. This was one of the reasons that the final solution was considered acceptable, if other countries cared, they would have welcomed the undesirables.
      Things haven't changed that much besides the Jews doing a really good PR job. Think of the second most persecuted group in Nazi Germany and at least here in Canada they're still (lightly) prosecuted even while our PM claims the only reason people would dislike Israel is antisemitism and gives Israel a pass on breaking international law and running an apartheid state.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  10. Re:Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - 2 by TWiTfan · · Score: 0

    Maybe Taco could buy if back on the cheap.

    --
    The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
  11. that's what I was thinking too. by Virtucon · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Sad really, IBM once stood for innovation and industry leadership. Now they're all about maximizing shareholder equity and other buzzwords that have nothing to do with being a leader. The board needs to fire most of the C level MBA shit-for-brains and hire some tech talent from within to re-motivate the company before it's too late.

    --
    Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
  12. With Darth Vader voice... by Dekonega · · Score: 1

    NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

  13. and a truly bad organization it is. by Virtucon · · Score: 1

    GSD's motto: "Fuck the customers and provide service from a cornfield in Iowa"

    --
    Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
  14. Re:Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - 2 by StripedCow · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They should make beta opt-in, instead of opt-out. For ALL users.

    Plus, Dice thinks they can reach a broader audience.
    It isn't going to happen this way...

    We like slashdot because of the audience. Change the audience, and slashdot is over.

    --
    If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
  15. What will IBM have left by Chrisq · · Score: 1

    Selling hardware, semi conductors - moving from proprietary OSs to linux. Are they just going to be another consultancy group?

    1. Re:What will IBM have left by ebno-10db · · Score: 1

      Yup. But in charmingly short-sighted MBA think, all they know is what types of products have higher profit margins right now. Sell those off and for a while the companies finances will be better in the short term. What they don't realize is that sometimes those lower profit margin things give them an edge in the higher profit margin businesses, and create a barrier to entry for their competition. I don't know if that justifies the fabs, because the capital costs have become insane. There are some advantages to controlling the fab process, but unless you're as bleeding edge as Intel it may not matter that much. The merchant fabs usually aren't that far behind Intel.

      Nevertheless the "sell off the low margin stuff, no matter what" simple-minded MBA mentality prevails. Do they really think IBM will continue doing great selling services and custom software? I understand they have a less than stellar reputation, and I'd guess they're living off the IBM name, their size and the inertia that goes with it, and perhaps in the case of government jobs, the fantasy that they're an American company. Since they've moved so much offshore, why not cut out the middleman and go directly to one of the Indian outfits? How long before customers wise up to that?

  16. I don't get it. by ErichTheRed · · Score: 3, Interesting

    How is semiconductors not a core business for a company that still makes huge profits off mainframes and midranges?? Sure, keep design in house, but you'll lose the flexibility you have. Imagine your research division came up with an amazing new chip design they wanted to work on right away, but were told "Nope, it'll take 6 months to ramp up GlobalFoundries, TSMC, or whatever. Sorry."

    The thing I really don't get (in general) is the way businesses feel like they can have no assets on their books and just run everything with a massive tower of multi-layer outsourcing. It doesn't make sense -- outsourcing something is never cheaper than doing it yourself. As soon as you do that ,you add in a layer of middlemen who need to get paid for doing a task which was previously cheap or "free with purchase of inhouse labor." It never works out. I guess I'll never be an MBA, because I don't get the accounting tricks that make a company appear profitable when they're wasting money on things they could do cheaper and better themselves.

    For IBM's case, I do see what they're trying to do. Software is more profitable than hardware. But the problem is that IBM is/was a huge innovator in hardware and chips. They're one of the last US companies massive enough to support basic research that can improve those hardware innovations. IBM's software may be profitable, but I haven't seen anyone singing the praises of WebSphere or their Rational products lately. IBM also has a massive "services" division. I've had extremely good luck with the services people who service IBM hardware, but that's going away. So, we're left with the legendary crap outsourcing and offshoring stuff they do for large companies, and of course, "consulting." My experience with outsourced IT run by IBM is an ITIL nightmare of endless support tickets, revolving door engineers, meetings to plan meetings to plan the strategy for changes, etc.

    It's kind of a shame if you ask me. I am just old enough to remember when IBM was as powerful as Microsoft was and as Apple is right now. They were able to command huge margins on everything they sold because it was backed up by a really good services team. People I know who worked for IBM "back in the day" tell me the corporate culture was weird, but employees never wanted for anything because they made so much money. (I also know people who worked for Sun and Digital who say the same thing.) In some ways, it would have been much nicer to work in the computer field during this "golden age of computing." I guess my main question is where the new hardware innovations will come from when you don't have a massive company and research group driving them.

    1. Re:I don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Intel as usual

    2. Re:I don't get it. by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      It doesn't make sense -- outsourcing something is never cheaper than doing it yourself.

      That's not the case for IBM hardware, but there are plenty of benefits that come with scale that you may not be able to get if you do the task yourself.

    3. Re:I don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know it's perhaps not the best analogy given their history, but Sun did the same. They designed the SPARC chips and farmed out the fabrication to others (Texas Instruments, mainly IIRC).

    4. Re:I don't get it. by Nelson · · Score: 1

      How is semiconductors not a core business for a company that still makes huge profits off mainframes and midranges?? Sure, keep design in house, but you'll lose the flexibility you have. Imagine your research division came up with an amazing new chip design they wanted to work on right away, but were told "Nope, it'll take 6 months to ramp up GlobalFoundries, TSMC, or whatever. Sorry."

      Actually, if they can partner with a fabrication company and get the quality they need it will increase their margins. Fabs are expensive and just not worth it until you have massive volumes. Old IBM would buy up a stake (or more likely, keep a stake) their partner and it'll almost certainly be whomever buys their current fabrication ability.

      Look at Apple, they don't have a fab... It's odd to me that this issue strikes such a cord, IBM has a checkered history at best in this department. More importantly, the game has shifted from raw cycles and MIPS to performance per watt and while they've done some good stuff in that area a contract fab that can chase the field can probably do better. There was a good block of time, a decade, where IBM owned POWER end to end and it was mediocre compared to the competition. Ideally they can focus more on their designs and make them even better. It's also very clear that they have a new product family they are focusing on, they've made some bold predictions about how big the Watson market will potentially be and if they can really productize that stuff and make it work as good as it worked on Jeopardy without a support staff then I simply don't see why everyone won't have a Watson in 15 years. They are going after that. I'm 14 years removed from IBM but that looks like it's potentially an exciting development.

      It's just changing. Answer me this, realistically, what do any PC makes bring to the table any more? Apple brings it all, they are the odd one. HP? Dell? etc..? They take intel parts, they take other 3rdparty parts and integrate them, then they take software from MS and charge a premium on the whole thing. It's a commodity business. It can absolutely be done as well by China and India and other countries. Is there any special skill in assembling those parts? I don't mean this to offend anybody but all of the PC business is going to and should migrate to wherever the labor is the most plentiful and inexpensive. If anything, it seems shocking that all those companies haven't bailed out of that business years ago. Fabing chips in particular seems like a business already designed for that.

    5. Re:I don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then again, their loyal customers will lose trust in their AIX/Tivoli stack. IIRC, the only thing that's left with IBM for now is their zSeries business (incl. the hardware) and their appliances business (cash terminals, face recognition, etc.)

      At least I might personally profit of IBM's move by convincing our AIX/Power-Department of giving Red Hat instead of AIX a try on our Power7 frames.

    6. Re:I don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "How is semiconductors not a core business for a company that still makes huge profits off mainframes and midranges?? Sure, keep design in house, but you'll lose the flexibility you have. Imagine your research division came up with an amazing new chip design they wanted to work on right away, but were told "Nope, it'll take 6 months to ramp up GlobalFoundries, TSMC, or whatever. Sorry.""

      It takes a while to verify a design, and to also verify the integration of something novel for a critical enterprise server. An amazing new chip design that is revolutionary even more so,. I doubt a 6 month delay for production at scale is a particularly big issue in that context.

    7. Re: I don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HP tried a similar thing with autonomy. blew up in their faces.

      meanwhile apple rules with nicely built conventional stuff.

    8. Re:I don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is semiconductors not a core business for a company that still makes huge profits off mainframes and midranges??

      How is steel production not a core business for a company that still makes huge profits off automobiles??

  17. Re:Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about sinply not trying to push shit on users they don't want? Instead of redesigning th shitty beta site, just drop it. This isn't some Web 2.0 site nor is designing a Digg clone a good thing. Just have the web weenies fix the current bugs rather than wasting time rewriting the site in an even buggier version.

  18. Re:Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I'll tell you what: if you assholes continue with this crap, I'll not only "join" your "slashcott" from 2/10 - 2/17 -- I'll join it for good. The caveat is that I'll be doing so to avoid people like you, who are polluting discussions with valid complaints in an inappropriate way.

    (As implied above, I don't like the beta. Yet I appreciate that it is a beta. I also appreciate that there are better ways to provide input to the developers.)

  19. But wait, there's more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not only that, IBM also helped deliver people to said camps in the first place.

    It was all a big 1930s operation in Big Data. Data mining church books for ancestry data. Who is one-half Jewish, who is one-eighth Jewish.

    Worst of all, IBM knew precisely what Hollerith was doing. That knowledge was not even a speed bump on their way to the bank.

    1. Re:But wait, there's more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So what? We could look into past generations of your family and find things just as bad. And that's family, not business. The same genes are in you today and will be in your kids tomorrow. You can't fire them and they don't retire.

    2. Re:But wait, there's more by ebno-10db · · Score: 3, Informative

      IBM knew precisely what Hollerith was doing

      Hollerith wasn't involved in that - he died in 1929. Otherwise you're spot on. Hollerith worked on punch cards and tabulating machines, and his stuff was used in the 1890 US census. The Hollerith code bore his name though, and that's what was tattooed on death camp prisoners.

  20. Interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fuck the beta though. I'd like to know what /. thinks but fuck the beta.

  21. Re:Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Digg went from $170 million asking price (although it didn't sell at that price AFAIK) and ultimately sold for $500k.

    I don't know how Slashdot's peak valuation compares with Digg. If we're patient maybe we can get it for the price of a high-end automobile, which many individuals here could afford on their own. A "white knight" retired techie who doesn't need money and could afford to run it as a non-profit hobby. That'd be ideal.

  22. Salesmen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    IBM is primarily a professional services company. They've been evolving into that for years.

    In other words - salesmen - selling other firms' products and arbitraging labor costs between the Third World and the Western World at a huge markup.

    Same goes for the other big companies.

    And it's funny, they're "International" when it suits them and when they need that government contract, they're all of a sudden an "American" company.

  23. Re:Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - 2 by emmagsachs · · Score: 0

    Dice made it perfectly clear that, even after all the backlash, Classic will soon be gone:

    Most importantly, we want you to know that Classic Slashdot isn't going away until we're confident that the new site is ready.

    Dice ignores our complaints, while pretending to listen. Bitching and ruining every single discussion is the only option we have left.

  24. Re:Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - 2 by synapse7 · · Score: 0

    FUCK I forgot I wasn't suppose to visit Slashdot today, I have a habitual habbit I can't break... and FUCK BETA

  25. but.. by Virtucon · · Score: 1

    At least they built something.

    Oh and you forget, IBM has sold to anybody and in some cases with the Nod of the US government. This includes the Shah of Iran but lots of US companies dealt with the Nazis (Ford, ITT, US Steel etc.) It was just good business back then.

    --
    Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
    1. Re:but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The truth is that all over the world people suffered from the NY insanity in the 1930s. Henry Ford knew his company could be killed by finance insanities. Hitler was a reaction to this and industrialists like Ford liked someone getting a handle on finance insanity.

      Quite rational, at least in the beginning. You Americans will have your own Hitler in 2022, if you don't lock down NY.

      John Hitler will come out straight from your Armed Forces and there will be no place for the NY banksters to run any more. All their country castles will be worth zilch.

  26. IBM Laugh lines - AS/400 isn't dead either by marcgvky · · Score: 0

    If you want to chuckle, go to the AS/400 section of IBM's website. "It's not dead, we swear!" LOL It's interesting to see how IBM is selling off, all of their commodity business (laptops, servers, chips) to focus on the high margin stuff.... people should take note.

  27. Re:Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - 2 by emmagsachs · · Score: 0

    I also appreciate that there are better ways to provide input to the developers.

    And those ways are... what? Dice made it perfectly clear that, even after all the backlash, Classic will soon be gone:

    Most importantly, we want you to know that Classic Slashdot isn't going away until we're confident that the new site is ready.

    I have come to Slashdot for over a decade to enjoy the intelligent discussion that can only be had here. So I do apologize. But Dice ignores our complaints, while pretending to listen. Ruining every single discussion is the only option we have left.

  28. Re:Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We don't want a redesign of the Beta. Are you that lunk headed to not understand what we're saying? It's obvious that Dice did not hear us and we will continue to voice our opinion and there's nothing you or they can do about it.

  29. Screw this beta by ppff · · Score: 0

    It absolutely sucks!

    --
    x
    1. Re:Screw this beta by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      Nothing on Slashdot sucks.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
  30. Re:Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What more do you want from them, blood?

    Yes!
    Well, more actually a steak, medium rare, but there's blood in that. Maybe I shouldn't post hungry.

  31. Re:Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    can we call it FriendshipIsMagic???

  32. with Unicode and hookers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm going to put in a pony request for beta to allow ASCII art. Ya know, for "diagrams".

  33. Dice is failing by ZepHead · · Score: 0

    The "managers" at Dice are not only ruining Slashdot, they can't even run their legacy business. Look at Dice Holdings stock performance:

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=D...

    While the S&P 500 and Dow 30 are each up 20% and 10% over the last year, DHX is down close to 30%. I wonder if the stock analysts who cover DHX even know what is happening to this newly acquired "asset". I wonder how many DHX shareholders know.

    If the decision makers at Dice won't listen to the nerds, maybe they will listen to their shareholders.

  34. Re:Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    there are better ways to provide input to the developers

    No shit? We tried that already. This thing didn't start overnight - this is the result of completely ignoring community input for the past several months.

  35. IBM, no longer what it was by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It was once a fully integrated corporation, but that's not profitable enough anymore, so spin-spin-spin.

  36. Re:Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Grow up.

  37. Manufacturing is alive and well in the US by sjbe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Manufacturing left America because China et al are cheaper

    Completely off topic and completely wrong. Manufacturing is very strong in America to the tune of about $2 Trillion per year and for every dollar spend in US manufacturing it results in an additional $1.32 to the economy. The US manufacturing sector by itself would be one of the ten largest economies in the world - approximately the same size as the entire GDP of Russia even without considering the multiplier effects. The US presently has about 1/5 of global manufacturing activity. Some products are not manufactured in the US anymore (mostly high labor content low margin products) but any claim that "manufacturing left America" is completely false.

    The only way you're bringing manufacturing back...

    Manufacturing never left. If you think it did then you have no idea what you are talking about.

    1. Re:Manufacturing is alive and well in the US by ebno-10db · · Score: 1

      Manufacturing is very strong in America to the tune of about $2 Trillion per year

      Golly, that's a lot of money! However, like most big numbers that people throw around to impress, that means little because it's not expressed as a percentage, or a balance, or something meaningful. The US has a large trade deficit in manufactured goods, and raw materials. It has a small surplus in services. Despite the promises of the last several decades, the surplus in services hasn't increased much. We're not going to run a surplus in raw materials. Ergo manufactured goods are where we need a surplus. I don't expect it to be in low margin, labor intensive stuff like cutting/sewing clothes. More sophisticated industries are where we shine, but the "let's move it to China" trend keeps moving up the food chain. Applied Materials solar R&D, jet engines, etc.

    2. Re:Manufacturing is alive and well in the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, the US runs a surplus in a lot of raw materials. Soon oil will be added to that list.

      US Manufactured more goods in 2013 than any previous year. The difference is that it doesn't need 1/5 of the people it did in 1978. US manufacturing is lean and growing, which is a lot better than what can be said of the rest of developed nations, including Germany.

    3. Re:Manufacturing is alive and well in the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are dreaming. There are entire cities in my state that have no manufacturing plants at all anymore. Literally entire towns are devastated. What do we manufacture here? Seriously?

    4. Re:Manufacturing is alive and well in the US by ebno-10db · · Score: 1

      Actually, the US runs a surplus in a lot of raw materials.

      I'm sure that's true. I've no idea what our trade balance is in vanadium or ruthenium. The aggregate is not so good though.

      Soon oil will be added to that list.

      No, what everybody is celebrating is that our domestic production is now slightly higher than our imports. We still import almost half of what we use. That's a long way from a trade surplus.

      US manufacturing is lean and growing, which is a lot better than what can be said of the rest of developed nations, including Germany.

      That must explain the US trade deficit and the German surplus in manufactured goods.

    5. Re:Manufacturing is alive and well in the US by sjbe · · Score: 2

      However, like most big numbers that people throw around to impress, that means little because it's not expressed as a percentage, or a balance, or something meaningful.

      I did put it in context which you gleefully ignored. The three largest manufacturing "countries" in the world are the EU, the US and China with Japan a distant fourth. Together they make up somewhere over half of all global manufacturing and all three are within a few percentage points of each other. The claim is that the US does not manufacture anything anymore. That claim is demonstrably and ridiculously false and will remain so.

      The US has a large trade deficit in manufactured goods, and raw materials.

      A fact around which you have put no context whatsoever. You (wrongly) accuse me of not putting the size of the US manufacturing sector in context and then turn around and then do exactly what you are accusing me of. The effects of trade deficits are complicated and not necessarily bad.

      More sophisticated industries are where we shine, but the "let's move it to China" trend keeps moving up the food chain.

      Of course they do, just like Japan did some years ago. And as China's economy grows they are having to pay their workers more and industries that moved to China for cheap labor become less competitive. I run a manufacturing company and I see this first hand. The US will eventually have to compete with China on more sophisticated products the same as it does with Germany and Japan and others. This is normal.

    6. Re:Manufacturing is alive and well in the US by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I can name a bunch of things we manufacture here:
      - aircraft carriers
      - fighter jets (F-22, F-35)
      - rifles (M-4)
      - helicopters (Black Hawk, Apache)

      Of course, all this stuff is purchased by the US government, using printed money. If you're looking for stuff that isn't solely for the defense sector, I can only think of a couple of things: Intel CPUs and Boeing passenger jets, along with some automobiles (I think Chryslers are still mostly made in the US).

    7. Re:Manufacturing is alive and well in the US by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      They are assembled here. Not made here. The parts are made in China and robots put them together with bolts. Done.

      Intel is now overseas so that is not true.

    8. Re:Manufacturing is alive and well in the US by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I just looked at a Dodge that was made in either Indiana or Illinois, I forget which. The American content was around 60-70% (the big exception was the transmission, which came from Korea). No significant part came from China. I think you're making things up.

      Intel is not overseas, that's a blatant lie. Most of their fabs are in the US, mainly Oregon and Arizona. They have two 14nm fabs in Oregon and Ireland, 22nm fabs in Oregon, Arizona, and Israel, and their latest fab (14nm 450mm) is being built in Arizona. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...

    9. Re:Manufacturing is alive and well in the US by sjbe · · Score: 1

      I can name a bunch of things we manufacture here:

      Is that all you got? The real list is FAR FAR longer than a few military projects. Frankly those are relatively minor as far as US manufacturing goes. You would know this if you bothered to do any actual research on the topic.

      If you're looking for stuff that isn't solely for the defense sector, I can only think of a couple of things: Intel CPUs and Boeing passenger jets, along with some automobiles (I think Chryslers are still mostly made in the US).

      Then you have no idea what you are talking about and proclaiming that ignorance publicly. Almost every major auto manufacturer (foreign or domestic) has very substantial manufacturing operations in the US plus the attendant supply chain which they substantially share, much of which is domestic as well. (I have worked in that industry for well over a decade) Caterpillar has roughly 50 plants in the US (about half their total number) and they are among the worlds largest exporters. The US has extremely substantial manufacturing operations in pharmaceuticals, semiconductors (not just Intel), civilian and military aircraft, petroleum products, steel (yes we still make lots), chemicals, food processing, electronics, agriculture and mining equipment, jet engines, medical devices, and more. Go do some actual research before spouting off further ignorance.

    10. Re:Manufacturing is alive and well in the US by sjbe · · Score: 1

      I'm sure that's true. I've no idea what our trade balance is in vanadium or ruthenium. The aggregate is not so good though.

      And what do you think the US is doing with all those raw materials? They get bought and then used for productive purposes. Japan has virtually no natural resources but no one is arguing that they are screwed as a result. Being a net importer of raw materials is neither good nor bad by itself.

      No, what everybody is celebrating is that our domestic production is now slightly higher than our imports.

      What everyone is celebrating is that exports exceeded imports in 2013 and that looks to continue in 2014. Plus Canada and Mexico account for around half of US oil imports so it's not like the US is directly dependent on the middle east for supply.

      That must explain the US trade deficit and the German surplus in manufactured goods.

      The US exports more than Germany does AND has a GDP 4X the size of Germany meaning the US economy is not nearly so dependent on exports. You're a little too wrapped up in whether a country has a trade surplus or not. Having your economy so dependent on exports has both significant advantages and disadvantages. It's not simply suplus=good/deficit=bad.

    11. Re:Manufacturing is alive and well in the US by sjbe · · Score: 1

      There are entire cities in my state that have no manufacturing plants at all anymore.

      None of any substantial size. The only towns where there is no manufacturing at all are tiny ones. Some like Flint Michigan have been hit hard by companies leaving but even still they have substantial manufacturing operations.

      Literally entire towns are devastated. What do we manufacture here? Seriously?

      20 seconds on wikipedia would have answered your question. Are you really that lazy?

    12. Re:Manufacturing is alive and well in the US by sjbe · · Score: 1

      I just looked at a Dodge that was made in either Indiana or Illinois, I forget which. The American content was around 60-70% (the big exception was the transmission, which came from Korea).

      I have a Honda pickup which is 75% parts from the US/Canada (mostly US in this case). Even the Ford F150 does not have more US made content.

  38. No comma by barlevg · · Score: 1

    Big Blue wants to sell off its manufacturing operations, but will continue to design its own chips.

    As "will continue to design its own chips" is not a complete sentence, the comma before "but" is not appropriate.

  39. Next IBM press release... by chiller2 · · Score: 3, Funny

    01 Apr 2014: IBM (NYSE:IBM) International Business Machines Corporation (IBM) has changed back to it's original name, Computing-Tabulating-Recording Company (CTR) and will be selling off all post 1930 technology units to focus on it's core business of dial recorders, electric tabulating machines and time clocks.

    --
    --- Commission free trading & free stock up to $500 - use http://share.robinhood.com/kelvinp6 :)
    1. Re:Next IBM press release... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      eventually they will go into the Real Estate business selling off their former buildings.

    2. Re:Next IBM press release... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What, no meat scales!

  40. Re:Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - 2 by arth1 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Dice already said they need to redesign the beta.

    No, they didn't. They talk about "incremental improvements", which in this case is like jumping a chasm in multiple small steps.

    The Beta needs to be redesigned, yes. A redesign happens from ground up. Or, to use the obligatory car analogy: no amount of tuning your Mazda Miata will make it replace a bus.

  41. outsource THIS, beeotches! by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    I am eagerly awaiting the day when Watson is capable enough to replace 93% of doctors and lawyers. What's good for the plebs is good for the elite, right?

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    1. Re:outsource THIS, beeotches! by djupedal · · Score: 2

      But will 1000 Watsons chained together and tossed into the ocean be as easily defined as a "good start" ..?

    2. Re:outsource THIS, beeotches! by ebno-10db · · Score: 1

      I am eagerly awaiting the day when Watson is capable enough to replace 93% of doctors and lawyers. What's good for the plebs is good for the elite, right?

      Capable and will are two different things. Both of those groups have very good unions (oops, I meant professional organizations).

    3. Re:outsource THIS, beeotches! by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      It coul happen. If a Watson-based program can automate just the more routine aspects of the job, and do so better than an army of clerks, then it may allow a lawyer to handle twice as many cases at once. Which means half as many lawyers needed.

    4. Re:outsource THIS, beeotches! by mikael · · Score: 1

      Or it allows twice a many cases to conducted for half the price. The only limit on litigation in the past has been the expense of lawyers. In the UK, we have "ambulance chasers", "no win, no fee" lawyers who look for every opportunity to win a compensation payout.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
  42. Actually because your hate beta by future+assassin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    posts are makes it annoying to read here in the last few days its gonna be quite nice to not see you here for 7 days.

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
  43. WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Their hardware business is indeed a drain on their financial resources. Intel makes chips almost as fast as POWER and faster than the mainframe CPUs. Mainframe business shrinks every year. Linux is good enough vs expensive AIX.

    They make miniscule numbers of chips, compared to x86. Fabs are still extremely expensive. Intel and TSMC have blown them economically out of the water. At least they don't do an HP and still have their own chip designs.

    HP once had one of the best chip designs and made them in their own fabs (PA RISC). But even then they could not compete on economics with Intel fabs, processes and manufacturing scale. So they raised the white flag around 1998.

    IBM has by now only admitted half-defeat.

    If IBM weren't run by MBA muppets, they would use a Strategy Of Technology and try innovative things like FPGAs and associative memory directly on CPU. Or CPUs weaved into RAMs. But all an MBA can do is to streamline some engineer's ideas and process.

    Certainly IBM has to use TSMC or Global Foundries. Xilinix does it too and I think they are wildly successful. IBM simply can't afford massive capex for their puny number of chips made.

    Of course, they could have tried to take x86 head-on with a competitve Linux-power offering, but that would have meant a total change in style, culture and business model. Samsung can pull that, not big blue.

    Dipl.-Ing.(BA) Frank Gerlach

  44. you cannot fix the beta by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    there is so much wrong with it (discussed on the mentioned anouncement page you mentioned), you cannot improve on something that is utterly broken in the first place

  45. Re:Sell The Beta by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dice is lying through their teeth to the advertisers they hope to attract to Slashdot:
    Take the tour and you'll see how they claim the nerds will stick around and read their ads. They call Beta "newsier" and "nerdier", although they're well aware the nerd "audience" they're selling won't tolerate Beta.
    Advertisers, don't get ripped off! Demand an advertising platform that retains the demographic you want to target!

  46. I definitely do... by jopsen · · Score: 1

    I guess my main question is where the new hardware innovations will come from when you don't have a massive company and research group driving them.

    Did you ever consider that basic research is hard to justify in a cooperate environment? Hence, better left to public entities, as done in many countries.

    I think that big companies splitting up is a good thing, they'll be able to focus their research and be much more agile.. Other companies,start-up, etc. will also be able to compete better if they can purchase services from independent chip manufacturers. There will be less dirty game where chip manufacturers say they won't produce your chip because they are own by a big company (say IBM) whom you're trying to compete with.

    The free market works best when companies are fairly small. Otherwise companies can't fail without it having enormous impact on society. I for one applaud IBM for trying not to be too big to fail!

    For IBM this also means that they can't shop around for manufacturers, instead of being bound to use their own. Flexibility is not worthless.

  47. comparative advantage by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    US companies are selling off hardware because they discovered that bullshit (AKA "consulting") is America's comparative advantage.

    1. Re:comparative advantage by hendrips · · Score: 1

      I'm having a hard time deciding whether to argue with you or not. On the one hand, a great deal of consulting work is not bullshit, and is very valuable to the client company. Most companies would find it astonishingly stupid to pay a six figure salary to a full time actuary just to calculate their workers compensation reserves once a quarter, when they could pay a consultant (like me) four figures for the same service.

      On the other hand, IBM's consultants are so incredibly expensive and useless that, in the context of this article, you are absolutely spot on. I count it as a great blessing that I work for a small firm that never has to deal with IBM or their ilk.

    2. Re:comparative advantage by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Let me put it this way: with consulting you have far more opportunities for BS than in manufacturing.

  48. Lots of Companies would be interested in buying.,. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...if it includes complete cross-licensing of all IBM's process technology. IBM still has a reputation for some of the most efficient designs for logic gates, etc. Unlimited access and cross-licensing of that IP would probably be worth more than the physical fab business.

    I could see Intel, Samsung, TSMC and Apple all very interested in that...

  49. Re:Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, "blood" would be nice. After all, /. is a Liberal haven.

  50. F U C K B E T A by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please post this to new articles if it hasn't been posted yet. (Copy-paste the html from here so links don't get mangled!)

    On February 5, 2014, Slashdot announced through a javascript popup that they are starting to "move in to" the new Slashdot Beta design. Slashdot Beta is a trend-following attempt to give Slashdot a fresh look, an approach that has led to less space for text and an abandonment of the traditional Slashdot look. Much worse than that, Slashdot Beta fundamentally breaks the classic Slashdot discussion and moderation system.

    If you haven't seen Slashdot Beta already, open this in a new tab. After seeing that, click here to return to classic Slashdot.

    We should boycott stories and only discuss the abomination that is Slashdot Beta until Dice abandons the project.
    We should boycott slashdot entirely during the week of Feb 10 to Feb 17 as part of the wider slashcott

    Moderators - only spend mod points on comments that discuss Beta
    Commentors - only discuss Beta
      http://slashdot.org/recent - Vote up the Fuck Beta stories

    Keep this up for a few days and we may finally get the PHBs attention.

    -----=====##### LINKS #####=====-----

    Discussion of Beta: http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=56395415

    Discussion of where to go if Beta goes live: http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&type=submission&id=3321441

    Alternative Slashdot: http://altslashdot.org (thanks Okian Warrior (537106))

  51. Re:Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - 2 by gtall · · Score: 2

    " We have work to do on four big areas: feature parity (especially for commenting); the overall UI, especially in terms of information density and headline scanning; plain old bugs; and, lastly, the need for a better framework for communicating about the How and the Why of this process. "

    What is it about feature parity is it that you do not get? At least give them credit for trying. There is another way for Slashdot to die, it could die through doing the same old same old for the same old visitors.

    And for a group of people who claim to be the voice of the industry in the trenches, a lot of carping seems to ignore plain business sense. If this site doesn't hold its own in a marketplace, it will go away just like every other product that fails to capture a decent return. You might not like putting it in those terms but you know it's true. Sites rarely exist for the mere enjoyment of its visitors. In the end, someone has to pay for it. The Slashdot crowd is the same crowd that will crucify government waste along the lines of, there's too few served to justify the expense.

  52. Re:Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - 2 by runeghost · · Score: 1

    Dice made it perfectly clear that, even after all the backlash, Classic will soon be gone:

    Most importantly, we want you to know that Classic Slashdot isn't going away until we're confident that the new site is ready.

    Dice ignores our complaints, while pretending to listen. Bitching and ruining every single discussion is the only option we have left.

    And flat-out bailing, either for a while like the upcoming boycott week from the 10th to the 17th, or permanently.

  53. Core business economics by sjbe · · Score: 1

    How is semiconductors not a core business for a company that still makes huge profits off mainframes and midranges?

    Probably because the biggest part of the value added by them is in the design, not the manufacturing. IBM does not appear to have any competitive advantage in semiconductor manufacturing plus their core business now is in services. Their mainframe business really is to some extent really just a hook for their services. It remains significantly profitable but some of the components in those mainframes have become commodities which means low margins.

    Sure, keep design in house, but you'll lose the flexibility you have. Imagine your research division came up with an amazing new chip design they wanted to work on right away, but were told "Nope, it'll take 6 months to ramp up GlobalFoundries, TSMC, or whatever.

    Why do you presume IBM could ramp up any faster? Just because they can do it themselves doesn't mean they automatically can do it any quicker or better. IBM has some pretty smart financial, strategy and manufacturing people working for them. I've met quite a few of them myself. I assure you that they have done the math on this and while it's possible they are making a mistake, they're pretty good at this sort of calculation.

    The thing I really don't get (in general) is the way businesses feel like they can have no assets on their books and just run everything with a massive tower of multi-layer outsourcing

    Because the only reason to keep something in house is if it provides you an economic advantage. You outsource when someone else can do it as well or better for less money. My company makes wire harnesses. Many of our customers are capable of making the products we supply them but because of the structure of our company and the assets we have we can produce a better product for less money. We specialize in wire harnesses and we're enough better at it that we can save them money AND make a profit doing it. If we couldn't do it better and cheaper then they should (and often do) produce the item in house.

    I guess I'll never be an MBA, because I don't get the accounting tricks that make a company appear profitable when they're wasting money on things they could do cheaper and better themselves.

    Nobody "is" a MBA. Some people have a MBA degree. You might accurately call someone an accountant or a manager or an engineer but calling someone "a MBA" is exactly equivalent to calling someone a Master of Mechanical Engineering. It's stupid if you actually think about it.

    Look, I have degrees in both engineering and business. I'm a certified accountant and my day job is running a manufacturing company. There are cases where it makes sense to outsource something and cases where it makes sense to keep it in house. You are making a faulty assumption that it is always better to keep things in house and I can prove to you that that is frequently not true. Specialist companies can often make a component of a larger product better, faster and cheaper than a vertically integrated company. Not always but very often. Virtually all of manufacturing is based on this fact. The cost of vertical integration has to be offset by the ability to command larger margins due to that integration. \

    Ford once tried doing a complete vertical integration in their River Rouge plant. They brought iron ore in one end and produced automobiles out the other end. Thing was that it failed because they didn't have sufficient economies of scale nor the domain expertise to realize the cost advantages needed to make it work. A company that specializes in making steel is probably going to be able to make steel cheaper and better than an assembly company like Ford.

    I'll give you an example from my company. We make wire harnesses and one of the products our customer buys from us are sealed leads which

    1. Re:Core business economics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " That means we would have to produce 5 million leads to break even on the purchase of that machine. While we could do it in house, it makes more economic sense given our order volumes to outsource the production. Should volumes rise sufficiently then we might consider buying the machine and doing it in house."

      To amplify this further, if you bought a machine for $150,000 expecting to make 5 million leads but that part of the business changed after making 1 million, then you are left with a capital asset on the books to sell (at a loss) or mothball, tying up capital and that represents an opportunity cost and an associated risk.

      If you expect to make 5 million of something in a very short period of time then the risk is much less. By outsourcing the leads elsewhere the risk is transferred, but if it is transferred to a company that makes a lot of this type of widget then its risk of being left with a machine it won't use (assuming it makes a good quality product) is also lower. So potentially risk in the system might be reduced. Of course there is some counterparty risk that has been introduced, but hopefully even then the total system risk is lower and lower for each party.

  54. IBM of 20 years ago by sjbe · · Score: 1

    I know of IBM as a:
    - Desktop PC manufacturer
    - Server manufacturer
    - Chip manufacturer

    You're describing IBM as they existed 20 years ago. They haven't been primarily a manufacturing company for quite some time now. Technical and business services is the core of the company as it exists today. They still make some products (hardware and software) but they are high margin products with significant support requirements.

  55. Re:Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your comment was Slashdotted... Here's a mirror:

    This is like the old days! Crapflooding all over again... all we need are the page widening post, multiple posts, etc. w00t!

    -CM

  56. Typing this on an IBM Model M born in 1991. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IBM should solely make keyboards. Original Model Ms. Exactly to the original specs, including the PC speaker in the bottom. No cheap shit like the Unicomp keyboards (bought one from them and the Shift key died completely internally within a year).

    IBM's Model M is the best keyboard that has ever been made and will ever be made. I'm in love with it and I feel very sad about seeing IBM killing off their core business. Fuck outsourcing. Fuck the cloud. Fuck all these fucking retarded MBAs. Fuck Slashdot's new shitty site.

    Fuck everyone and everything except for the Model M keyboard.

    1. Re:Typing this on an IBM Model M born in 1991. by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      The Model F was better, at least for the keyswitch mechanism. They layout was awful though. The keyboard with the best layout is the Sun Type 5 (but the keyswitch mechanism there sucks).

  57. Re:Sell The Beta by Statecraftsman · · Score: 1

    That is literally disgusting. Worst is how they place all comments in a box and label it User Engagement like it's a widget they added.

  58. Is this the homeopathic theory of business? by khelms · · Score: 3, Funny

    Sell all your product lines in order to raise profits to the maximum?

  59. Actually, it sounds almost like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually, it sounds almost like their solid state labs have come up with an economical way to manufacture graphene based electronics. That would make their entire manufacturing line obsolete.

    So they would want to sell it/them off before it becomes a loss.

  60. Re:Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - 2 by danbert8 · · Score: 2

    But Miata is the answer to everything! Just ask Jalopnik, who like Slashdot is owned by idiots (Gawker in this case) that insist on repeatedly pissing off their users by changing the site layout and commenting system.

    --
    Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
  61. Cost cutting to the Nth degree by miller701 · · Score: 1

    This reminds me of an old bit in The Onion "Nike to Cease Manufacturing Products"

    http://www.theonion.com/articl...

    Big Blue might as well just liquidate and give the money back to the shareholders, they just don't care anymore.

  62. Re:Sell The Beta by demontechie · · Score: 1

    Wow. That is the clearest indication I've seen yet that there is no chance they are going to back down on this. "User Engagement", my eye.

    Thanks for the link.

  63. Re:Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - 2 by Idbar · · Score: 1

    What more do you want from them, blood?

    Oh please don't give them ideas... they may come back with Slashdot Beta in Red.

  64. IBM will be a VC fund soon. by gelfling · · Score: 1

    It's pretty much stopped making 'stuff' and sells intangible services while snapping up other people's software companies and rebranding them. But services require too much linear labor input even at firesale prices in China so it's probably just as well that half the employees now are lawyers and accountants. Soon IBM will be a holding company for buying and selling intellectual property and that's pretty much it.

  65. Re: Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Like William Wheton!

  66. ill just leave this here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2011/08/17/why-amazon-cant-make-a-kindle-in-the-usa/

    I would leave the other link about how the job market ain't ever going to recover but I don't have it handy. Its over my fellow Americans. We blew it.

  67. What's right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ehr, their core business would be manufacturing typewriters.....

  68. Anybody remember Digital Equipment Corporation? by DavidSpencer · · Score: 2

    DEC used to make everything they sold: the chips, drives, displays, circuit boards, software, you name it. Eventually, for the sake of raising profits, they sold it all off part by part. Then they were absorbed by Compaq, which in turn was absorbed by HP. Today they're nothing but a memory. So who will ultimately buy IBM and when will they do it? It's now just a matter of time...

  69. New tech? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe they are looking over graphene / new breakthrough in the mid term and squashing the current tech before its too late

  70. Semiconductors not an edge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look at what makes Xilinix or Apple hugely successful. It's not the semiconductor process. It's all the design.Face it.

    IBM CPUs can be made at TSMC and would still be "good enough" and costs come down by 70%. IBM fabs don't add a competitive edge, but drain billions every couple of years.

  71. why the revolt? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can some one give a detailed explanation as to why is the new beta broken? I see a lot of people complaining but I don't get it. I definitely don't like how it looks, it's ugly, so what? It may take some time to get used to it that's all.

  72. A sign of intelligence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think this is a sign of intelligence. IBM sold of its desktop and laptop businesses before the value of those businesses fell. I think IBM believes that the end of Moore's Law is real close. Some double patterning immersion lithography can get to 20 nm. Some triple patterning can get to 14 nm. The cost per transistor is no longer falling. Transistor speed is not improving much. Power consumption is still shrinking, but is that enough to justify multi-billion dollar fabs? 14 nm might be around for a long time. 14 nm might be good enough for IBM.

  73. Re:McDonalds is a manufacturer by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

    Bush decided to reclassify fast food as manufacturers to hid the job losses last decade to China.

    Since it would not surprise me if 1/3 of that is Mcdonalds alone that all fastfood joints make up most of that total.

    I do not know of anything made here? All the big names in my city are all service, banking, marketing, and restaurant headquarter companies. The only thing produced a fish from the nearbye sea. It is not sustainable as it depends on other people spending. The problem is that goes out once it is spent. Producers keep making value in comparison which is why China is growing 10% annual.

  74. Re:Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Dice is pulling a Windows 8 Metro-forced-down-your-throat move. I would expect they would get similar market results.

  75. Not great news for NVIDIA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is not great news for NVIDIA (they are in the business IBM wants to be in: design chips, let someone else fab them). NVIDIA gets their chips made by ....IBM. (I think it was mostly at IBM's plant in East Fishkill New York). I know that as fab die sizes shrink, keeping up with the technology is more expensive, and if you can subcontract that part of the operation, you can stick to design work, and let someone else worry about wafer success rates, and what new technology is required to go smaller than 22nm, etc.

  76. Re:McDonalds is a manufacturer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Caterpillar, General Motors, Ford Motors, General Electric, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Honeywell, United Technology, General Dynamics, 3M, Kimberley Clark, Archer Daniels Midland, Procter and Gamble, Johnson and Johnson, Dow Chemical, Merck, Johnson Controls, Abbott Laboratories, DuPont, Deere.

    Each of these US manufacturers are alone bigger than McDonald's.

    Their combined size, along with the tens of thousands of other manufacturers completely dwarves McDonald's and fast food.

    That most of their products are not consumer items just goes to show how important they are to the world economy.

    I'm not even an American, and I'm certainly no fan of US foreign policy, but I made a list twice this long of US manufacturers off the top of my head before deciding to make a list of US manufacturers larger than McDonald's (and I excluded companies like Cisco and Apple which outsource most or all of their manufacturing).

    It is fucking ludicrous to suggest the US does not reign supreme in manufacturing. The US sucks for a hundred other reasons I can pull off the top of my head, but manufacturing is not one of them.

  77. Re:Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The slashcott is not until the 10th. It runs through the 17th. You can block the site with iptables or ufw during that time to help keep you from forgetting.

  78. Re:Slashcott - don't visit this site from 2/10 - 2 by gottabeme · · Score: 1

    There is another way for Slashdot to die, it could die through doing the same old same old for the same old visitors.

    Eh, I think you still don't get it. Consider this: "There is another way for books to die, they could die through doing the same old same old for the same old readers." Yet, books have been around for thousands of years, because they work. They well-fulfill their intended purpose. Radio and movies and TV and online video haven't replaced books, and they never will.

    Slashdot is like a book in that it has a simple function: allow people to have reasonably (or comparably) intelligent discussions about topics of interest in a reasonably efficient way. Slashdot needs a redesign in the same way that books need to be redesigned: it doesn't, and they don't. Minor changes can make it more efficient, and that would be great.

    Basically, you're begging the question: who says Slashdot needs to change? Dice? How do they know? They just wasted some money on a site they didn't understand--that doesn't mean the site needs to change to suit their needs; that doesn't mean they need to change it to be like their other projects. They are the ones who need to change; they need to learn to understand what Slashdot is, not what they wish it would be.

    --
    "Those who consume the bulk of goods are those who make them. We must never forget this secret of our prosperity."
  79. McDonalds never has been a manufacturer by sjbe · · Score: 1

    Bush decided to reclassify fast food as manufacturers to hid the job losses last decade to China.

    Stop making nonsense up. Nothing of the sort happened and McDonalds is not and never has been classified as a manufacturer. Some of the products they purchase (food products) are manufactured but McDonalds themselves are not and never has been classified as a manufacturer.

    I do not know of anything made here

    Then you haven't actually bothered to look.