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FBI: $10,000 Reward For Info On Anyone Who Points a Laser At an Aircraft
coondoggie writes "Here's a good idea: The FBI has launched a targeted, 60-day program that will offer up to a $10,000 for information leading to the arrest of anyone who intentionally aims a laser at an aircraft. The FBI said the laser-pointing scourge continues to grow at an alarming rate. Since the FBI and the Federal Aviation Administration began tracking laser strikes in 2005, there has been ridiculous 1,000% increase in the number of laser pointing/aircraft incidents. Last year, 3,960 laser strikes against aircraft were reported — an average of almost 11 incidents per day."
Laser pointers are arbitrarily cheap and getting cheaper. The action of pointing them at an aircraft is arbitrarily easy. The action is motivated by basic human curiosity.
How is any sort of enforcement ever going to stop this behavior?
Shouldn't they be looking at a different solution here?
Isn't there something akin to a one-way mirror coating we could be putting on aircraft windshields to lessen or eliminate this threat? Certainly it would make it a tad darker for the pilots to see but also would assist them when flying towards the sun as well!
The laser incidents are so numerous that it will be impossible to deal with the problem by prosecutions. It seems to me that a problem that cannot be solved by stopping the perpetrators needs to be solved a different way, such as designing planes to not be vulnerable to the lasers.
The purpose of the windows in the aircraft is to let light in... not to let it out.
Why is this a problem? By the time it gets to that height, your average laser pointer has diffused out larger than the plane itself. Does it set off laser-guided weapons detectors in the cockpit or something?
Are the fines for pointng a laser at an aircraft less than the reward for turning someone in? Are the penalties less for juveniles? If so, I know what my 4 kids will be doing when they get home from school today.... Come-on $40k! Daddy needs a new gaming rig.
Okay, so an el-cheapo red laser pointer at a range of 500 ft (Aircraft on approach).
Daylight - Can the pilot even see it?
Night time. At 500 feet, is it even as bright as his instrument lights? Between dust and moisture vapor is the beam even still anywhere close to focused?
Yeah, I know people can go and by multi-watt green lasers that can pop balloons from 100 yards. But to say that an el-cheapo red light wielded with harmless intent should be subject to the same penalties as a multi-watt laser wielded with intent to disrupt/harm seems to be going the whole zero-tolerance BS route.
I'm curious. Has anyone ever actually caused harm in US airspace with a laser pointer yet? Or are we creating a crime around something that has never caused harm?
If it's worth doing, it's worth doing for money.
Agreed if it's adults who ought to know better.
Are you, however, going to throw children in jail too for this?
What are the rules for pointing a laser pointer at a drone? A drone operating before 500'? 50'?
1) Own a Cessna.
2) Aim a laser at it in the safety of your hangar.
3) ???
4) Profit!!!
Ezekiel 23:20
2. Turn him in.
3. Profit!
4. Repeat
I think people must be doing this out of boredom. With fun lasers like these people can find more constructive things to do with them.
I'll sell all you suckers out!
If they take "dare" you're $1000 richer. Just make sure you videotape them for proof so it can lead to an arrest. I see a potential to make a lot of money and to widdle down the stupid pool all in one shot here...
According to wikipedia it's only a real danger when the aircraft are on final approach and below 4000ft. In this case, the person with the laser should know better and it should be easier to find them. Even kids can imagine it's not good to blind or distract the pilot when they are trying to land. When the plane is cruising at 30k feet, I doubt this is even visible much less a problem.
You are wrong. Also take into account that some cretins use lasers that _can_ blind people permanently for this.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Felony prosecution. 25 years to life. No parole. Must register on the "laser pointing offenders" list. Driver's license suspended. Credit Score cut to one. Automatic bankruptcy. All assets forfeited. House fuel air bombed, bulldozed, soil salted and paved over with pig iron, rocks and low grade cement.
Must stand on a chair and sing the "I AM A VERY BAD PERSON" song while applying for any job. Five million dollar fine paid in equal daily installments for 35 years. Not allowed to date, marry or smile at anyone.
Must appear in at least five television commercials a year (at own expense) to announce "I am a poopy face" while dressed up like a cartoon airplane and being physically kicked in the ass by a sunglasses-wearing security officer with a blinking overlay of name and social security number.
If not 18 yet, then the parents and grandparents are all prosecuted instead.
And no laughing.
Perhaps someone from one of the airlines or better still the FAA could demonstrate just how disruptive a laser pointer is to flight operations? At 30,000 feet, I suspect that 2-3mm beam will already be scattered to several feet (with an attendant loss of intensity). On takeoff or final approach somebody might be able to paint the flight deck windows with a laser, but that puts yon numbskull in a very specific place (trespassing on airport property?), subject to monitoring and arrest.
Question - we are detecting all of these laser strikes on commercial aircraft. Have we detected any instances where it has actually posed a significant obstacle to safe flight operations? Not the "oh the red flash distracted me for an instant, we could have crashed!" hysteria, but some real "I was blinded for several seconds requiring the co-pilot to assume command briefly". I'm going to be honest - in my passenger car, those red flashing lights in the rearview mirror really mess with my ability to drive; but it's more than a momentary flash. With a lack of visible feedback, how many people can continuously paint the windshield of a jumbo jet in flight for more than a fraction of a second?
First thing to do is track all purchases made by everyone ever. Then track everyone's location using mobile phones, satellite imagery, and RFID embedded in shoes. Collect the data in a massive data bunker in Colorado Springs. Hire a dozen of the nations finest data crunchers for $45k salary. Triangulate flight paths with likely suspects using a GUI written in Visual Basic (as a SharePoint plugin). Problem solved!
If there were that many incidents, was there any damage? It seems like a sufficiently large sample to determine if there's a real risk or not...
So we should ban green laser pointers, right? Clearly, they're the problem since this wasn't happening when red pointers were all but the only option. No. The problem is that pilots, in the pitch black of night can see beams of green laser pointers off somewhere in the distance. With no useful reference for actual distance and nothing else in the night sky to compare it to, the pilots assume they're very nearby and must be being pointed at them. I have no doubt that some aircraft have had a beam enter the cabin or that some small number of pilots have witnessed a brief flash as a beam quickly crossed one of his or her eyes. That said, this is only now epidemic because pointers with visible beams are commonplace.
Wow, I'm gonna get rich at Bonnaroo this year! Every time the damn medical helicopter, photography helicopter, or sheriff's plane goes near the festival grounds, multiple people point green lasers at them. Gotta make sure to get the number of the local FBI field office, I guess. I'm not sure how musicians are never blinded at music festivals, since there are always idiots pointing lasers everywhere.
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
Sounds like a great money-making scheme to me. Get some drugged up homeless guy convinced it's a space ship and that he'd be helping to shoot it down and then capture the video on your phone for evidence and poof! $10,000!
Honest and serious questions
4000 reported strikes per year but there never seems to be verified reports of crashes, forced landings, or even documented injuries to pilots.
how many crashes? seems to be zero
how many injures? can't seem to find any verified injuries. Found a few that said pilot blinded but then later no actual injuries.
Is this really a national security issue??
The only real danger time is take off and landing. And pilots could wear anti-laser glasses at those times.
When a plane is in normal flight it's far too far away and fast moving to have any dangerous effect from a laser. Contrary to popular opinion laser light does diverge.
Think any different? Cite an example of a pilot with eye damage.
I know what all the neighborhood hooligans are getting for Christmas! LASER POINTERS!
I also know what I'll be getting for New Years, $10,000!
It's easy to talk shit when being anonymous and clueless.
Lasers are light, not magic. If you block the laser beam you block its frequency (color) of light. If you block all the possible laser frequencies I'm pretty sure the cockpit isn't going to be nearly as transparent, which is kind of the point of the cockpit. Raising the awareness that this is stupid and dangerous is a perfectly reasonable way to address the problem. A conviction shouldn't ruin someone's life forever but it sure as hell should make them and anyone that hears about it not want to do this.
Most of this is coming, I shit you not, from nutbag conspiracy theorists ranting about what they call "Chem trails" - Basically fucking morons that failed elementary school science class and don't know anything about condensation.
Someone told them that lasers neutralize the scary government chemical sprays put on aircraft to taint their precious bodily fluids. They point to recent news like this as proof. Clearly, government propaganda does not want them pointing lasers at planes!
I weep for this country sometimes.
No it will not stop the problem immediately but at least some idiots would stop and the rest will (hopefully) be thrown in jail.
At first, this whole article sounds like nonsense. But I think I figured out the key mistake here:
...aims a laser at an aircraft
This is about drones!
Surely they don't mean commercial planes. It doesn't make sense that a normal hand-held laser pointer could track a 700mph airplane 30,000 feet away, when it has no ground facing windows. Police and medevac helicopters are the current issue. They fly low, at night, over populated areas. But I wonder if part of the goal here is to nip this in the bud before police drones become a regular site in the sky.
I got a guy busted for shining lasers at aircraft.
I was a passenger on a flight out of O'Hare around dusk one day, and had a window seat. The takeoff was to the west, and we did a 180 turn to the right to head back east for the climbout. Knowing where this would take me, I was looking for Wrigley Field.
And right when we got over Wrigley, some jackass on the roof of one of the bars that you can see behind the bleachers and across the street behind right field when you're watching a Cubs game on TV painted the plane I was in with a BRIGHT green laser. I made my eyes hurt, but I nailed the exact location down to the building because the jackass did it right across the street from a major landmark. And it was deliberate - he tracked the plane with the laser for probably a minute or so.
After the seatbelt sign went off, I got up and told one of the flight attendants, and a few minutes later I was talking to the copilot and telling him EXACTLY where the laser was coming from. I read about it online a while later - idjit in Chicago busted for painting aircraft with lasers.
Where's my $10K?
From TFA: "As of December 2013, the FAA has documented at least 35 incidents where pilots required medical attention after a laser strike."
If they're adult males, they're called "suspected militants."
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
they should authorize jets to carry laser guided bombs
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
If i don't like my black/muslim/spanish/different-in-some-way neighbors, or the boyfriend of the girl i want, i can just report them as pointing a laser to a passing aircraft. In the worst case i could say that I mistook a keychain for a laser pointer. In the best case, i will get $10.000, and could get rid of that neighbor because he will be victim of authorities/nsa confirmation bias.
And it could work in both ways, if you don't want that nasty redneck falsely accuse you, you can accuse him first. In any case, whats the worst that could happen if you call the police?
1. most of the people caught pointing green lasers at aircraft have admitted to such.
2. Yes, you can see the laser even if it isn't pointed directly at the aircraft. but in many cases the pilots report not seeing the pointer but the effects of the lasers on the cockpit windows. Keep in mind for example that over Los Angeles and surrounding areas there are probably at least one first time at night soloing Private Helictoper Pilot every week. If he were to lose sight of the horizon for even a minute or two that helicopter is coming down...
3. Responsible people wouldn't be point lasers at the sky when they live near busy airports.
That laser pointers had anything to do with national security.
just ban the damn pointers. it's not like they are actually all that necessary. actually they are basically useless.
I don't know about planes but it's a real problem for helicopter pilots.
You could maybe fly a plane blind if you had someone giving you feedback, but it's impossible in a helicopter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P_S4m1vfR8
These lasers are often marketed as "great for sky pointing", and indeed a tour guide used one for that legitimate purpose on my recent trip to Puerto Rico. I am sure there are dumbasses purposely doing this to low-flying aircraft (during take-off, approach and landing), but I wonder if pilots are also reporting lasers that are unintentionally pointed in the vicinity of aircraft during legitimate ground uses. And yes, I will be buying mine before they get banned...
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from Macintosh...
I feel like Im getting dumber by reading this thread. Do any of you have anything relevant to the real world to say, or do you want to continue your fantasyland posturing?
Taking the pay someone to snitch approach is novel, but how hard would it be for Johnny A-hole neighbor to point the laser, then point the finger at someone else just to get his 10K.
We can't stop A-holes from doing dumb shit, so here's an idea:
How about putting a special reflective mask/window tint over the cockpit windows that blocks coherent light (aka, the "Frickin' LASERs"). I know this must be rocket science because it hasn't been done. I'm no inventor or I would have done this already, so don't flame me. I'm just putting this out as a suggestion.
Is it any of the cheap units professors use, or it is some kind of powerful hobby version?
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
When the laser hits the glass/plexiglass, it spreads all around the cabin, making it near impossible to see and possibly temporarily blinding the pilot.
It's pretty damn dangerous.
- Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
The problem is that pilots, in the pitch black of night can see beams of green laser pointers off somewhere in the distance. With no useful reference for actual distance and nothing else in the night sky to compare it to, the pilots assume they're very nearby and must be being pointed at them.
No, laser light is very directional, and having it pointed at you during nightime flying is a very definite experience. Search youtube for "helicopter lasers" to see what I mean.
So we should ban green laser pointers, right?
I know you asked sarcastically, but there are "soft-band" options that society may have to consider if the problem grows. For instance, using green lasers for stargazing could be outlawed (e.g., forcing laser makers to not use this as a selling point). Additionally, pen/pointer-shaped form factors could be prohibited. Gun-mounted green lasers could be forced to have a rail switch. Hopefully the laws don't have to go this far though.
-1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
"Shouldn't they be looking at a different solution here?"
OK. Laser light qualifies as polarized light. So, if the pilots wear polarized glasses (with rotatable lenses), then they can block the light almost as easily as it can be shined at them.
Not so much.
yes, and those lasers are illegal. then the issue is that they own illegal lasers, period. really no need to spread mass hysteria encouraging people to report anyone with a laser pointer to the FBI.
I knew a guy that had a really bright laser pointer. I don't know how powerful it was but it was definitely not your typical weak red dot.
Anyway, he was showing this to me one night back before there was all this talk about laser pointers blinding pilots. He showed me that he could actually point it at the night sky and it made a visible dot, I guess it was reflecting off something or other in the atmosphere.
What I found to be really cool about this is it was a way to actually point out stars and constelations to someone. I know I find it difficult to precisely follow where a finger is pointing to find something in the sky. The laser pointer made it easy!
There were no planes that we could see at that moment. I suppose you never know about ones that are high enough up, it could be possible to miss them. So.. was this dangerous? Is it ok to point out stars this way?
If not then I think airplanes should have blinds and cameras. The pilots could fly by camera. In event of the camera malfunctioning open the blinds.
Unless we're somehow going to regulate laser pointers like guns, it would be far more effective
LOL - yeah, because "gun regulation" in the US has proven *SO* effective at reducing gun crimes! Training an army of ninja squirrels to steal laser pointers from kids would be cheaper and more effective...
1. Have some sucker point a laser at a plane. 2. Turn them in 3. Profit!!!
I see you've never visited wicked laser's website.
Given how bad the economy has been for lower wage earners, it might be tempting to "confess" after one's spouse or loved one "informs" the FBI just to claim the $10k prize. 2-3 years in prison with with heat and A/C, soft beds, warm blankets, 1 hour of outdoor recreation each day, free health care for even the most expensive medical conditions, a public defender to advocate for early release or to appeal a conviction, job training programs, GED classes, fitness facilities, job programs to earn cash and rewards while in prison, networking opportunities to line up shady "opportunities" after getting out, cable TV for good behavior, the chance to join a gang that "has your back" for life - this all might sound like a good deal to many, not entirely unlike those desperadoes in the UK who would steal a loaf of breed just at the chance of winning an all expense paid trip to Australia, far, far away from their creditors and ex-wives back home in cold and foggy London.
"Shouldn't they be looking at a different solution here?"
What's wrong with the old system. Tell people they will burn in eternal hell fire if they point a laser at aircraft.
Either that or start a rumour about hairy palms.
Anyone smart enough to know this is BS probably isn't the type to do it in the first place.
Children and morons will be too scared to do it.
And they say religion has no place in modern society.
How are they tracking the "laser strikes"? Are there etch markes down the side of the fusilage? Is there some new fangled piece of equipment that detect over saturation of a specific wavelength?
Has there been a correlated increase in the number of accidents? Probably, not — or TFA would've mentioned it.
Without such, I don't see, how anything draconian can be justified. It is annoying, to be sure, but justice should not be emotional...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
There is not such thing as your magic "anti-laser glasses". Laser is light, any glasses which blocked all lasers would also block most of light, you wouldn't be able to see.
What exists are protective glasses tuned to specific wavelength laser. Not useful if you don't know what laser you are protecting yourself from.
Anti laser goggles only work against a limited set of wavelengths, otherwise they would be completely black. You can buy enough different lasers now (I've seen red, green orange, blue and near-UV) that it isn't practical to make goggles that will block them all.
Even if laesrs don't cause eye damage (and I believe they have), they can cause distraction (which is deadly in aircraft - one of the largest causes of accidents), and can prevent the pilot from seeing the instruments .
Lasers do diverge, but there are tricks to shine a collimated laser at a plane and make a really dangerous weapon.
Maybe FBI is worried that laser pointers registers with weapon systems that perhaps is made to pick up laser beams? As if laser beams are used in anti air weapon systems as guidance.
What exactly is an "illegal laser" and in what jurisdiction? In the US I can purchase a laser capable of cutting through metal or simulating a light saber injury without any legal restrictions. The seller would be more than happy to make a 5 digit price sale and the only legal thing to worry about is OSHA if using it some place with other employees.
They could (see others' comments for technical issues with that), but should they? Or rather, should they have to?
While it might be a reasonable precaution, I don't think that validates turning the tables around. Otherwise you might as well conclude that pilots should don bullet proof vests to deal with the people who discharge a firearm in the direction of a plane taking off/landing.
Obviously that is already covered by other laws. Laser pointer use may or may not be. Regardless, I'm not sure where your stance (if I'm interpreting it correctly) of "attempting to harshly punish those pointing laser pointers at planes, is a bad idea" is coming from.
huge waste of taxpayer money that the taxpayer has no say-so in
Under what circumstances will the full $10,000 reward be offered?
I have a powerful laser, and I know where to find a large supply of homeless people (who wouldn't mind a few months in jail if they got a $2,000 check at the end of it).
Sure, you can't repeat this trick in the same area, with the same witnesses, but with a big enough payoff it would be a worthwhile business venture.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
My most demoralising day as a police employee was reading a self-congratulatory intranet news article about how some 20-year-old had been successfully prosecuted and sentenced to a prison term for pointing a laser pointer at a police helicopter. Apparently the judge acknowledged the kid's lack of any previous criminal history and the likelihood that he was just messing about and didn't intend to put anyone in danger, but felt that a message needed to be sent. For goodness' sake If they're that dangerous just fucking ban them, don't ruin someone's life for playing with a toy.
While diode lasers can have fairly polarized output beams, whatever the polarization, all it takes is rotating the laser pointer 90 degrees to turn vertical polarization into horizontal. I have yet to see a laser pointer with the output polarization marked on the body and there is no restriction on how the perp holds it. Even with rotatable polarizers on the glasses pilots could wear, they still have to catch the light in their eye and rotate the polarizer - with a 50/50 chance of turning it initially to let more light through - to minimize the laser light.
The only solution is to start punishing the idiots who do this. Some of the laser pointers available are well over output power limits for the class rating they carry and can cause temporary blindness in a pilot who has dark-adjusted eyes. This generally happens on approach when the nose is low and is the most critical time for a pilot to have every bit of sight available to him or her. People who aim lasers at planes are risking (if not intentionally trying to cause) a crash with very high chances for major loss of life for those both in the plane and on the ground.
Fine the hell out of them. Put them in jail. Ruin their lives. And do it before they kill, injure, and maim innocent people.
I just deviced a plan that incorporates homeless folks, vodka bribes, laser pointers and $10000 profits.
'Once scientists, even the dim-witted social scientists, get muzzled, the Western Civilization is finished.' - oldhack
If the equipment on board can detect the laser strikes, can the planes have lasers on board that turn on and point back to the source? I'm pretty sure whoever is down there would look away pretty damn fast.
Does FDA have a mandatory limit on the power emitted by laser pointers?
Yes. Laser products promoted for pointing and demonstration purposes are limited to hazard Class IIIa by FDA regulation.
21 CFR 1040.11(b) and 1040.11(c), limit surveying, leveling, and alignment, and demonstration laser products to Class IIIa. This means that pointers are limited to 5 milliwatts output power in the visible wavelength range from 400 to 710 nanometers. There are also limits for any invisible wavelengths and for short pulses. Pointers may not exceed the accessible emission limits of CDRH Class IIIa or IEC1 Class 3R.
http://www.fda.gov/Radiation-E...
so yes, if you are employing a mounted laser in a scientific or industrial setting, no problem. if you bought a handheld 2w laser from wickedlasers.com and are storing it at your home and you have no reason to own such a device other than "hobby", that's illegal to own.
p.s., wickedlasers.com is out oh HK, so they can ship whatever they want. you can also buy a cell signal scrambler online, and guess what those aren't legal either.
1. most of the people caught pointing green lasers at aircraft have admitted to such.
Seems likely to me. How many people have been caught caught though? A dozen? A few hundred? By God, there's an epidemic of thousands upon thousands of people pointing lasers at aircraft and it's been skyrocketing over the last 3-5 years. (Even though the first readily available and stupidly-cheap red pointers were being sold for a couple of bucks at gas stations and the like 15 years ago.)
2. Yes, you can see the laser even if it isn't pointed directly at the aircraft. but in many cases the pilots report not seeing the pointer but the effects of the lasers on the cockpit windows. Keep in mind for example that over Los Angeles and surrounding areas there are probably at least one first time at night soloing Private Helictoper Pilot every week. If he were to lose sight of the horizon for even a minute or two that helicopter is coming down...
The first part of this statement, for me, only re-afirms my belief that people in general tend to report problems with the most dire, sensationalist spin because they feel like it's more likely to illicit a response. The latter sentence sounds as if you think you're arguing with someone who thinks it's ok for a pilot to have lasers shined into his eyes. For the record, I do not. I only believe the rash of reported incidents is exaggerated by the beam visibility of some non-red (often green) laser pointers.
3. Responsible people wouldn't be point lasers at the sky when they live near busy airports.
Agreed. Though, responsible people also wouldn't put 55W purple HID headlight bulbs into all 6 (low, high, fog) reflector-style housings on the front of their SUVs, nor would they bike around with a 1500 lumen strobe light strapped to their handle bars. Unfortunately, we have a shortage of responsible people.
Install imaging sensors constantly tracking all air vehicles for the purpose of bird strike prevention and general security in the dangerous areas. Use the accompanied standard issue laser targeting device detector and deliver the coordinates to an airport security team.
No, laser light is very directional, and having it pointed at you during nightime flying is a very definite experience. Search youtube for "helicopter lasers" to see what I mean.
I don't need to watch a video because we agree. Lasers are very directional. Having even a low power one pointed into your eyes can be temporarily disabling or even catastrophic if you're doing sensitive work like keeping an aircraft or vehicle under control. I also fully believe that people are doing this. What I don't believe is that, with cheap (sub-$5) red pointers having been readily available for about 15 years, there's only now a sudden jump in occurrences. An explanation that makes far more sense is that with cheap green lasers (which can produce a visible beam) now widely available, pilots are reporting many more instances of "beam sightings" in addition to "direct hits." If a red laser pointer, which generally does not have a visible beam, misses your aircraft, you never know it. If a green one does, perhaps even at a considerable distance, you might still see it and have something to get excited about and report.
So we should ban green laser pointers, right?
I know you asked sarcastically, but there are "soft-band" options that society may have to consider if the problem grows. For instance, using green lasers for stargazing could be outlawed (e.g., forcing laser makers to not use this as a selling point). Additionally, pen/pointer-shaped form factors could be prohibited. Gun-mounted green lasers could be forced to have a rail switch. Hopefully the laws don't have to go this far though.
You made me consider a point I hadn't before and that's that the visibility of green lasers' beams likely encourages people to point them into the night sky. With a red pointer, there's not much visual incentive to do so. I hate it when I make a big long point and then have to consider changing my mind. :)
Someone should invent dye pack armed laser seeking missiles... have a drone fly around an airport, someone uses a laser pointed at a plane, and poof, theyre fluro green, and theres video proof for court... win/win
I should clarify that by range I mean reliable distance reading. You could probably quadruple that distance for the blinding power of the beam itself.
Then I'll be damned if I do it with a measly laser pointer.
:D
I'll go buy 500 of the suckers from Wicked Lasers ( or the highest wattage output I can find ), build these suckers into some crazy array, add a focusing lens to this , paint it green, name it Lazilla, tie it into a passive motion tracking system, mount it on the rooftop and have a grand time pointing it at satellites, the neighbors dog, any aircraft within fifty miles and the FBI helicopters when they show up.
I mean, if you're going to go to jail for something, you may as well try and set the bar up as high as you can
Put all of them in the same airplane and point a laser at it.
The US Government should just accept that because they are no longer follow the constitution, that the people of the United States don't feel like we should follow any laws anymore.
See how it works? You break the law and act like it's okay, we'll break the law and tell you to fuck off.
Be seeing you...
This has already happened. several time. And more powerful lasers are becoming cheaper.
Hell, you can buy a 2000mw laser right now.
You should do what rational and thinking people do when thinking about a subject. Research then form an opinion.
Google:
pilot blinded laser
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I recall seeing a video talking about just how bad this was. About 50% of the video was "simulated cockpits" with blindingly bright green light flooding over a pilot's face. The other 50% was legitimate footage from a helicopter where the pilot not only had no issues flying, but also no issues directing police to the guy pointing a laser at him.
I've never seen a perfectly focused laser pointer. The beams always expand over distance. At a block away the beam is the size of a small window in a house. At the distance of a plane or helicopter, most of the beam is going to miss the aircraft no matter how steady and true one's aim might be simply because the point is going to be larger than the aircraft. Add to that the difficulty of holding a laser pointer steady on something in the same room as you, nevermind something a mile away and moving, and the idea that this is a real problem seems ridiculous.
I suspect it's more along the lines of an annoyance. It's stupid as fuck and people shouldn't be doing it and pilots are getting pissed about it the same way that drivers get pissed when someone drives down the highway with their brights on, but in the same way that driving down the highway with your brights on isn't all that likely to cause an accident, I doubt these laser pointers are all that likely to cause one either. ...but I fear that's getting lost in the hype as these things are made out to be much more of a danger than they actually are. Sure, driving down the road with your bright lights on might be dangerous, but that doesn't mean we make bright headlights illegal, or that we put people in prison for life when they do it.
It's like someone's trying to get lasers banned or something. If this were a real problem, the logical thing to do would be to make a law that every laser sold must come with a pamphlet about the danger of pointing lasers at aircraft and the punishment you'll face if your caught doing it, as I suspect the problem (the nuisance that it is) is mostly one of ignorance. However, no one wants to try the education route, it's all "ban! ban! ban!"
The only thing that needs to be banned is wickedlasers.com as those people don't need to be displaying high-powered lasers as merely cool toys and selling them to any moron with enough cash. It's simply irresponsible. Someone in my town who my sister knows got one of their lasers and proceeded to play with it by doing things like shining it into my mother's house. I'm surprised he hasn't blinded someone yet. ...or perhaps he has, I can't say I've seen the guy in a year, so maybe he's in prison.
A quick google search can find dozens or hundreds of people pointing lasers at helicopters. https://www.google.com/search?...
Fining and/or locking up the people pointing lasers at planes is all well and good, but so far-- at least as far as I'm aware --any such incidents have just been people being jackoffs. And yet pilots getting blinded by lasers, especially on approach and landing, is a real hazard. It's only a matter of time until someone does it 'seriously', like in a coordinated attempt to down a plane.
So why aren't there countermeasures? Protective filters in the windscreen, or special filtering glasses for the pilots, or somesuch? I wonder if there isn't something to be done with liquid crystal and active or passive sensing equipment that could automatically polarize the cockpit windows at the angle required to cut the light down as much as possible. Kind of like those auto-darkening welding masks, but you'd still be able to see through it.
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
FDA regulations limit how lasers made be labeled and sold, they do not make ownership of lasers illegal. And wickedlasers is by far not the only place to get lasers, you can try actual research supply places like Thorlabs, Newport, or CVI if you don't mind the price. For slightly cheaper new lasers, you can go straight to a lot of smaller system integrator companies and come away with multiwatt systems for under a thousand dollars. Or if you are really trying to save money, there are a lot of surplus equipment supplies, offering some pretty powerful medical lasers that can be had sometimes even under $100 with some luck. There are plenty of detailed descriptions around of how to service or fix some of those older units, or how to extra lasers from optical drives that can greatly exceed the IIIa limit. Not to mention that most off the shelf green laser pointers that are labeled as 5 mW or less actually put out more power if you put into a laser power meter.
While I work with high power lasers at my day job (which while dealing with OSHA and internal polices, has no issues purchasing high power lasers at a hefty price), I also mess around with a lot of them at home in my free time to try out things with more variety. With a little patience and ability to follow instructions, a high school student could assemble quite a variety of things that exceed those power limits, and not be illegal as long as they don't use the lasers to violate regular laws. Heck, there are d.i.y. designs for 50-200 W CO2 lasers for starting to get into laser cutting.
what happens when you point a laser at an aircraft?
Ummm...that's...insane. Let's bankrupt a 13 year old who just doesn't know any better.
Here's a better idea. What if airplane manufactures could design their aircraft windshields in such a way as to let in normal light, but reflect high intensity lasers. Hey, that would help in parts of the world where laws like this are totally unenforceable, like international pilots who fly into low and mid income nations.
About 3900 of the laser strikes were actually cops and criminals using their laser-equipped firearms in Newark and Camden.
It is actually a serious problem. A laser hitting the cockpit windshield reflects and temporally blinds the pilot...very dangerous during takeoffs and landings.
That being said, I totally agree with the previous commenter being bat shit crazy. Harsher penalties won't stop the action. You need to fix the plans so they don't have issues when it with lasers.
... it's a huge problem. I've spoken with helicopter pilots that have had their cockpits "flooded" with green laser light. lasers don't remain coherent after they enter the cockpit, and commercially available lasers instantly ruin a pilot's night vision.
when the police helicopter is tracking a suspect while hovering 200 ft agl, it's dangerous to not see where the high-tension power line went. It's also legitimately Obstruction, but that's usually less important, unless the perp is A&D. And no, most helicopters don't have detailed warning systems coupled to GPS to help the pilots avoid obstacles. those systems are expensive.
This article could do well to be from the "about-damn-time dept."
Night landings are, by their nature, more difficult and more dangerous than daytime landings. Assuming visual conditions, nearly everything is dependent upon being able to continuously see runway lights. About 10 minutes prior to landing, the standard procedure is to dim everything in the cockpit to it's lowest setting. The goal of this is to make sure the pilot's eyes are dilated as much as possible to see the runway lights and land safely.
About 5 years ago, I was landing at Chicago Dupage airport. About 1 mile from the runway threshold and about 500 ft above the ground, I was repeatedly hit by a bright red laser. Immediately after the first bright flash from the laser, I felt like I'd just walked from daylight into a dark room. I couldn't see anything. I couldn't see any instruments (Remember, they're all dimmed as low as possible) and the runway lights were suddenly very dim. After the second and third time, I couldn't see the runway lights anymore. My only choice was to add power, pull up and hope that I was still flying straight. I overflew most of the airport and remember finally getting good vision back about the time I was over the subdivision north of the airport. That subdivision is about 3 miles from where it all started. I turned over the subdivision and landed on a perpendicular runway.
I then released a torrent of profanities and considered all of the most painful ways to kill someone if I could ever find the #@(#*$@(#*$@(*##$(@* that hit me with that laser.
I'm all for higher penalties for this crap. It's probably already killed people. We don't know for sure because plane crash victims don't tend to be very talkative.
Aren't ground lasers what laser guided missiles use to target precise locations? A couple example cases of jets equipped with these should get the message across.
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First of all, anyone stupid enough to do this is stupid enough to post about it on Facebook or Twitter so just look there. Second, when someone laser paints a target, the missile can technically hit the target or the source depending on programming of the missile...from an aircraft...just saying (blow up the laser pointer-er)
Illegal to own? No. Read the regs. It is illegal to enter into commerce promoted as a pointing device. There is no law against possessing lasers of any type.
Photochromic windshield coating. Using an organic photochromic coating, the reaction time is on the order of nanoseconds.
They can paint short duration small back dots on the windshield of the plane, but not really do much else. Two coatings in perpendicular directions, with a separation angle window of about 1/2 the smallest wavelength you care about (which, with a band pass coating for visible light in the mix, means that it can be fixed at a pretty big distance), and the pilot won't even see black spots unless looking directly at the laser through the temporary perpendicularly organized difraction gratings.
It's my understanding that military aircraft already have laser protection due to an aircraft area denial weapons system I suggested back around 1976.
So....
1) Buy a 10$ laser pointer
2) Find a hobo and pay him another 10$ to point it at an airplane
3) Take a video and rat him out to FBI
4) 9980$ in profit!
5) Rinse and repeat, extra 10$ of profit for recycling the laser pointer
..but in cases like these they should not be held liable. Kids are imaginative and curious by nature. Only thing you'll be creating with punishing harshly will be misery and more people that hate the laws and government. The same kid might not point laser at the plane again, but there are more kids born every day. They can't be expected to not be kids.
Most likely the said isiot has some relatives around him, so the collateral damage is only a good thing.
Indeed, for various wavelengths.
Which wavelength should they choose to filter for? Or are you suggesting they should use glasses that filter all wavelengths?
Easy answer - people found guilty should be sterilised. They clearly are too stupid to be allowed to procreate
The problem is not the pilots eyes being shot out but the cockpit windows being illuminated beyond the point of seeing the darkness beyond them
Who use lasers as target designation systems. (on aircraft, amongst other targets) Riiight, that's a great idea.
Pardon me for being stupid...
I don't know what the danger is when a laser is pointed at an aircraft... anybody can help me out here?
This is really a super easy question for me, and I'm not sure how anyone else could possibly think otherwise -- Pilots should get safety gear that prevents laser flashes from doing the damage they supposedly cause, end of story. If the danger is authentic, then going without protection is an action of the pilot willingly putting the lives of the passengers in danger. There is no other interpretation. Arguments to the contrary are a bit like, let's drive a tandem bicycle into Mad Max world wearing a hunters-bright-orange business suit, and if anyone gets shot, we'll offer a reward for whoever finds who shot them. No. You drive a freaking cast iron battering ram of a vehicle in Mad Max world. If there is an authentic danger that a $10k reward would go to the discovery of someone who shines a laser pointer at an airplaine could cause it to crash, then the prevention of crashes is a matter for the pilot to assess. "Oh, it's all Pearl Harbor outside, and I'm a pilot. I don't need a vest or anything, because the company is supposed to pay for that stuff." In what reality does that make sense?
Step 1: Trick drunk friend into point laser at planes
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit!!!
In Soviet Russia, dot slashes YOU!
Anti laser goggles only work against a limited set of wavelengths, otherwise they would be completely black. You can buy enough different lasers now (I've seen red, green orange, blue and near-UV) that it isn't practical to make goggles that will block them all.
You only need to cover the common ones. Laser pointer incidents are relatively infrequent. Incidents with uncommon laser types will be very rare indeed.
Even if laesrs don't cause eye damage (and I believe they have), they can cause distraction (which is deadly in aircraft - one of the largest causes of accidents), and can prevent the pilot from seeing the instruments .
Since setting down the challenge to cite a pilot who's eyes have been damaged, there have been no takers. So I don't think it's happened.
Heck if it seriously put pilots and planes in danger, there'd be reports of terrorists doing it. High impact, and low risk, if the ground point is well chosen. But again I haven't seen it be a significant terrorist tactic.
For sure it's distracting, and I'm in no way defending those kids and idiots that do it. But there is no way of stamping this crime out. Catching the odd offender and giving harsh penalties hasn't eradicated other crimes and it won't this one either. Therefore a technical approach for when, not if, it happens is more sensible.
Other comments assumed technical issues have been refuted.
but should they? Or rather, should they have to?
It's a crime that won't be eradicated. Thus it's responding to a fact of life. You might as well ask whether a cyclist should have to wear a helmet, a car driver a seat belt, or a promiscuous teen a prophylactic.
Otherwise you might as well conclude that pilots should don bullet proof vests to deal with the people who discharge a firearm in the direction of a plane taking off/landing.
But they don't just ban guns, and give serious penalties to transgressors. They also have a security door to the cockpit, only openable from the cockpits side. Anti-laser glasses is the equivalent of that door.
Regardless, I'm not sure where your stance (if I'm interpreting it correctly) of "attempting to harshly punish those pointing laser pointers at planes, is a bad idea" is coming from.
a) It won't eradicate the crime. They never do. Drug dealing for example is harshly punished, but still very common. As is violence and murder.
b) These laser pointer attacks will either come from children, idiots or (if it's really a serious threat) terrorists. These are the types least likely to be affected by threat of serious punishment.
c) Serious punishment costs the taxpayer serious money. For little useful effect.
The technical approaches make much more sense.
We can use cameras and displays. And get rid of the windows
I had a long reply here but a fat-fingering of ctrl+r made it disappear.
The tl;dr of it is this: I may have misinterpreted your stance, could you clarify if you believe that the technical solution on the pilots' side is sufficient, or whether those who do aim laser pointers at cockpits should be punishable (just not 'seriously') as well?
Of course, if people are caught pointing lasers at planes, they should be punished. I just don't think that spending money on hunting them down, or sending them to jail for long periods is worth it. The money is better spent on technical means to reduce the effect on pilots.
ROTFLMAO @ "Chumpy" -> http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...
(You sure "talk a good game" -> http://games.slashdot.org/comm... but you can't even produce a MERE SCRIPT!, windbag...)
You aren't even on the level of a "script kiddie", & full of HOT AIR!
You certainly won't reply there in that 2nd link I posted either, as that would remove your downmods to my posts like this one you can't validly disprove or justify your downmod on -> http://games.slashdot.org/comm...
Oh, I suspect that IS the case here (simply logging out of a registered account & trolling by ac is a common troll trick around here OR using alternate registered 'luser' accounts sockpuppets to do the job will also, & Lumpy is LOADED with those & trolling - which doesn't matter: He PROVES he's all talk, no action (or skills, OR brains, lol))
(You're all TALK, & NO action "CHUMPY!)
* :)
(You know it, I know it, & so does anyone reading AND laughing their asses off @ you now... lol!)
APK
P.S.=> Answer the question in the subject-line Lumpy - since you had to "eat your wrods" in the 1st link above flavored with your FOOT IN YOUR MOUTH + the "bitter taste of SELF-defeat", lol...
... apk
ROTFLMAO @ "Chumpy" -> http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...
(You sure "talk a good game" -> http://games.slashdot.org/comm... but you can't even produce a MERE SCRIPT!, windbag...)
You aren't even on the level of a "script kiddie", & full of HOT AIR!
You certainly won't reply there in that 2nd link I posted either, as that would remove your downmods to my posts like this one you can't validly disprove or justify your downmod on -> http://games.slashdot.org/comm...
Oh, I suspect that IS the case here (simply logging out of a registered account & trolling by ac is a common troll trick around here OR using alternate registered 'luser' accounts sockpuppets to do the job will also, & Lumpy is LOADED with those & trolling - which doesn't matter: He PROVES he's all talk, no action (or skills, OR brains, lol))
(You're all TALK, & NO action "CHUMPY!)
* :)
(You know it, I know it, & so does anyone reading AND laughing their asses off @ you now... lol!)
APK
P.S.=> Answer the question in the subject-line Lumpy - since you had to "eat your wrods" in the 1st link above flavored with your FOOT IN YOUR MOUTH + the "bitter taste of SELF-defeat", lol...
... apk