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Electric Bikes Get More Elegant Every Year (Video)
Tim Lord first saw Faraday Bicycles at CES, where their bikes drew plenty of attention and a fair amount of media interest. The company ran a successful Kickstarter campaign in 2012, and 2014 is when they are starting to ship their pre-ordered bicycles and hope to get new orders for lots more. Tim's travels later took him to San Francisco, where he had a chance to visit the shop where Faraday bikes are made, and to talk with some of the people who are designing and making them. (If you don't see the video below, please use this link.)
I don't get why all these electric bikes have you sitting in such an upright position. I don't see why nobody takes an existing touring bike (like a road/racing bike, with drop bars, but a beefier frame and ability to add fenders and panniers), and adds an electric motor to that. With a much more aerodynamic position the motor would be much more efficient, and as most cyclists know, these bikes are much more comfortable anyway. Plus it would be a nice advantage to not have a completely unride-able bike in the case where your battery runs out.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
I think that bike is pretty cool, and I've been lucky to never have a bike stolen, but at that price tag, they better have put a LOT of thought into security before I would consider buying one.
Also, is it just me or does that bike scream hipster?
- Tempestdata
I'm confused why anyone would buy this when you could buy a cheap moped, scatter or motorcycle for less than this. Not only that a cheap motorcycle gets great mileage and will get you everywhere... They're also not so easy to steal as seems to be a hshugeissue in bit cities
You should take a look at the product of this austrian company if you're looking for good-looking E-Bikes that don't look like E-Bikes at all.
They put their motor in the seat tube and it merely assists the pedaling,
Aside from the battery pack that disguises as a tool-pack right underneath the saddle you can't see it's an electric bicycle on the outside.
Their system is supposed to work in almost any off-the-shelf frame (with limitations for carbon frames).
They also have some carbon frames that work with their system, though apparently this doesn't work with most "stock" carbon-frames.
Have a look at their website: http://www.vivax-assist.com/en...
The main problem with e-bikes is they don't fit the bicycle category; they're really underpowered motorcycles. One of the first things I noticed in the clip was a brag about being able to go 20mph--most urban bike traffic will be going at half that speed, say 8-12 mph. (For example, one of the local biking groups shows that 18-20 mph is for top cyclist in a paceline.)
These really don't belong on multi-purpose trails or in bike lanes. The speed differential between them and normal bikes is just asking for accidents.
For $3500 the components are a real mixed bag. Sure no visible battery is nice, but other bikes have that too and 195Whr is very low as far as e-bikes go. A brooks leather saddle is very nice, but Avid mechanical disc brakes are entry-level. That's not to mention the really questionable choices of a belt drive and bamboo fenders.
Compare it to something like the Stromer Elite: http://www.electricbikesla.com...
Same price, nearly double the battery (approx 350Whr), no visible battery, a standard shimano sora chain drivetrain any bike mechanic can work on, and hydraulic disc brakes.
The racing position is favoured by people who race bikes. Those people wouldn't want an electric bike. The upright position is preferred by most people going to work, school etc by bicycle -- there's a better view, and it's more comfortable.
That really depends on how far you have to go. In my experience, upright seating might be more comfortable for short distances, and it's probably easier to get on and off. But I bicycle to my office most days, about 4.5 miles one way (which is not long) on a road bike outfitted with a rack and panniers. It is not a "racing" position, but I do lean forward and have drop handlebars. The seat is level with the handlebars.
That position removes a lot of weight from your crotch area, and transfers it to your arms. I find sharing the weight between two areas to be more comfortable, although it requires proper positioning of the handlebars, wearing gloves, and switching grip positions to keep hands and wrists comfortable.
The view is fine, and is amplified by a rear view mirror. Also wearing a high-visibility vest will do much more for your visibility than the difference between the two positions.
Then, the nice thing is I can remove the panniers and easily ride 30 miles or more on a weekend in a reasonable amount of time without needing a second bicycle.
"Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/04/10/03/2137229/e-bike-e-xperiences/
Based on a steel mountain bike frame, it's decidedly INelegant and heavy, but super-effective on a commute that rarely exceeds 20 MPH by car.
I got a solid 7 years out of a 36V 10AH NiMH battery pack before it croaked. Now it is resting in the basement until I decide to re-power it with some flavor of lithium.
In the original post I asked if the Golden Island machinery motor was any good. Neither the motor nor the controller gave me a day's trouble though the original wire was too thin.
I also asked about lead-acid batteries. They were garbage. Too heavy and the power faded below a useful level long before they were considered discharged. I got a good deal on an NiMH pack and was very pleased with it overall.
I have since lashed up a 48V test pack and really enjoyed the power it gives. The original controller seems to work fine at 48V, the capacitors are all rated 60v.
The best thing I did was add a Watts-UP meter so I can keep an eye on remaining capacity and monitor power flow.
The most alarming thing about the bike is the brakes which are marginally adequate for the combined weight of bike and rider. They need to be upgraded before I hit the road again.
I know the sound varies from OK to less OK on here; that's because I somehow flubbed the audio recorded separately. Robin (Roblimo) Miller in editing the footage together did a great job of patching over some of the crazy industrial noises from the adjoining shop (which makes, of all things, electric motorcyles; the places are not related). I didn't realize I'd have a chance to shoot this video, so the footage is all from a point-and-shoot Canon camera that I bought via Craigslist for $80 a few weeks before; I think it did a credible job of focus, etc.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
The problem isn't elegance (by which I assume they mean style. Bicycles have been refined over 150 years, and are VERY elegant when it comes to their mechanical design, provided you're not shopping at Wallyworld or the very bottom of the market. NEVER buy a "big box" store bike, for a ton of reasons.) People ride all sorts of bikes. The problem is safety (the number one concern people have is fear of being hurt by drivers. Nobody answers "why aren't you biking?" with "oh, if only the bikes looked better"), infrastructure (on many levels, ranging from traffic sensors that detect bikes, to intersections and roads designed to accommodate more than just motor vehicles, to secure lockups, to being able to take a bicycle on other transit systems, etc...this is slowly starting to change), and societal attitudes. Namely that bicycles are toys, not serious transportation, and thus should not be accomodated...which is a bit circular...and a lot of attitudes and bias that should seem oddly familiar to anyone who has studied gender and racial bias. There's a great article out there from a psych magazine noting that cyclists are treated like any other minority outgroup. For example, emphasis of negative attributes, assumption of guilt, harassment and violence against them, etc.
Which is why so many cyclists now use helmet cameras to record their travels; it's to document the harassment (because people claim it doesn't happen, when it does), but also to have evidence if you're hit, because the driver is going to claim "I didn't see them" and they were doing nothing wrong, witnesses are going to think you were "flying" even if you were well below the speed limit, etc. There's a famous case of a DC cyclist who was cut off; the driver and two witnesses claimed he ran a red light. Surprise! Traffic camera video shows the light was green, and continued to be green as he lay on the ground unconscious after having slammed into the side of the car that had just cut him off. I generally find that drivers have far less understanding of the basic rules of the road and what cyclists are allowed to do or aren't, which is ironic, given that they're the ones piloting the massive machine that can (and does, to the tune of 40,000 a year in the US alone) kill people.
We live in a country where we had a network of well-maintained roads, which were the result of cycling clubs petitioning the government for roads that were rideable. Bicycling was HUGE in the late 1800's; it even factored into women's rights, believe it or not. Then the motor car came along. And people were horrified at the deaths and injuries; speed limits were imposed. The automobile industry panicked; customers wanted to go fast, unimpeded. So they fought back with a campaign of ridiculing pedestrians and cyclists. As the automobile became a symbol of success and achievement, suddenly if you had a car you were the elite, and if you were on foot or on a bicycle, you were not. You were poor, or stupid, or whathaveyou. And the American Dream became driving a car to your suburban house which was nowhere near the market, post office, bus stop, train station, your office, etc. We've only just started to slowly realize the idiocy of this and do more mixed zoning and transit-oriented development.
Just as it became the fault of the "jaywalker" for daring to step into the street except where specifically allowed to, suddenly it became the fault of cyclists when motorists plowed into them. We expect someone operating a power saw or a gun to be careful around others...but put them in a car, and suddenly we expect everyone else to be careful of them. And to protect themselves against you by dressing in foam hats and clothing that makes them look like traffic cones with all sort of blinking lights. Drivers can spot a 2 foot pothole, but can't spot a 6 foot tall, 3 foot wide object in the road? Riiiiiight....
This attitude spread in many places, except for the Netherlands, for example, where the car came relatively late...and Dutch society revolted after the skyrocketing inj
Please help metamoderate.
1)Buy a U-lock.
2)Change out anything "quick release" (aka quick-steal") to bolts or security skewers.
3)Put the U-lock through the rear wheel, inside the frame's rear triangle. Now neither the wheel nor frame can be stolen.
4)Attach the U-lock to something that is solidly and directly attached to the ground. Signposts that are bolted to something don't count. Porch railings don't count. Etc.
5)Remove lights and such.
Don't subscribe to the "cheap crappy bike nobody would want to steal." Guess what there's a large market for, and guess which bikes are the easiest for criminals to unload? It's hard to sell a $1k bike. Not so hard to sell a $100 beat-up bike.
Don't buy bikes from guys selling them out of the backs of vans, fly-by-night-looking shops, flea markets, etc. THEY ARE PROBABLY STOLEN.
Lastly: REPORT STOLEN BICYCLES. One of the reasons they continue to be stolen is that nobody bothers to report their bike getting stolen.
Please help metamoderate.
Welcome to slashdot, Glen Beck! One of the first things you might want to do here is friend cold fjord.
Happy posting!
Oh I understand you lot just can't stand to have your sacred cows challenged and always fallback to ad hominem attacks rather than using actual substance or logic.
Yes we understand that.
You know, unless you are somehow trying to assert that in fact 7 million Americans now have access to health care that did not prior to the ACA, because we all know it to be complete and total bullshit.
But hey, if it makes you guys feel better than that's all that really matters huh?
Keep voting for socialists! Someday one of them might actually do something good!
The Copenhagen Wheel is a much better concept, and cheaper, too.
It goes farther, runs longer, weighs less, uses regenerative braking to charge on the go, and best of all, you can remove it easily for security purposes.
[End Of Line]
the riders aren't.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
This is much more pragmatic. I wouldn't leave a $3500 bike locked up anywhere. Removing the wheel in shady neighborhoods (most everywhere?) is the only practical solution to problem of theft.
People are getting fatter and fatter, they need to be the engine so they can lose the excess baggage, not spend $3500 on something that allows them to continue to be lazy. Also E-bikes are way overpriced for what you get. I recommend getting a regular bike and saving yourself $2500 to $3000 instead. If it's really just for transporation then buy a used scooter or small motorcycle, they're a much better value.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
Oh please. I know 200+ pound guys who were bombing on mountain bikes before disks were invented, they survived just fine with cantilevers. A decent steel frame doesn't weigh much more than aluminum or carbon fiber, maybe a couple pounds, plus another 10-20 pounds for the battery and motor.
Not saying disks are a bad idea, but no, an electric bike isn't so heavy that it just can't be stopped without them.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
not so much if you want to turn. or having to hug the side of the road
your numbers are wayyyy of , sorry you are very misinformed
And not a single moment of the thing in operation. I smell a fish. And the price! Jeeze!
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
The Stromer Elite doesn't look totally gay like this thing does.
If people looking into this wanted a regular bike, they would already have one. I know it bothers you that others don't really give a shit about peddling everywhere, but that's the case. Whether you want to admit it or not, there are many downsides to riding a bicycle that an electric bike will (only partially) resolve.
You are likely not the intended audience.
People that drive a car only a few miles at most (especially in a warmer climate) are much more likely to buy something like this.
For all the wrongheaded transit ideas in NYC, banning electric bikes is on the list of bad ideas. Something between a bicycle and a taxi cab is needed, and Americans don't do mopeds.
Too late. I see these with LED light stalks all the time.
From someone who built his own electric bike, the one shown is pretty crap. zero suspension on a heavier than normal bike is a bad idea, and will limit what you can do. Also 250 watts is nothing, i know thats all that is legal in europe, and actully too powerfull for australia, but you can have 750 watts in america, and i havn't met a cop with multimeter yet; ultimately the more power, the more usefull, and fun (although it adds to the price of motor and battery). Lastly its too expensive, mine using a mountain bike frame, 1kw motor, and 1/2 kwh battery cost around $2000, it dosn't look as pretty, but it will kick this bikes ass (full offroad capable and will do 55kph on the flat if the wind is blowing the right way).
Rocket Surgeon.
Use some sense. Go slower or pedal. Your car can go 100+ but you don't. You go the speed of the traffic.
I use my motor to get up hills mostly. I rarely pass regular cyclists. My bike weighs 50 lbs so everyone pedals faster than I do.
On the downhill part of my commute home regular bicyclists have no trouble outdistancing me even if I do use my motor.
Bicycle are allowed to switch between the road and the sidewalk.
Tucking into blind spots? It's more usually, "I'm faster than you so I can cut around you. Ooops, I was wrong about that."
This is for helping your commute, not removing it. They describe it on Kickstarter as having "motor assist" not completely electric power. 350 watts is low, but enough to ease some hills. If you want a capable electric vehicle, make it yourself. I made a 2250 watt (3 horsepower) 20 mph top speed, 12-15 mile range out of standard hobby aircraft parts. Not terribly convenient, but very powerful.
Nope you should buy the wheel I invented... its powered by an interocitor for infinite free energy so you never need to pedal or recharge it...and just like the Copenhagen wheel it isn't actually available yet either.
Not bad, but you can improve your style, look at some italian bikes:
http://www.velorapida.com/Shop/p/45/mimetic-bicicletta-elettrica-vintage-in-stile-camouflage
http://www.bellabici.it/index2.html
http://www.elciclo.it/web/bici-elettriche-artigianali/bici-leonardo
http://littleitaly.motorinizanini.it/
There are also cardanic ones
That's why I recommend crank forward type of recumbent, it turns well enough and doesn't look weird compared to a full on recumbents:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Obviously doesn't have the full aerodymic efficiency of a full bent but it has the comfort.
I would put up pics of full on recumbents but there are so many varieties of type, short wheelbase to long wheelbase, to canopied ones like a velomobile, that it would be pointless, as what holds for one might not hold for another.
I'm guessing a short wheelbase recumbent with the crank over the front wheel should handle turns well also but that is just a guess.
Use a capacitor to soak up the braking burst and trickle it into the battery pack.
That said, regenerative braking likely adds complexity and weight and might require a different motor design. Also, an ideal implementation would need some kind of brake-by-wire system which would be more complicated than off-the-shelf disk brakes.
Yeah right... your an idiot but at least you are not alone. In the Netherlands, one of the most cycle friendly countries in the world, the "normal" bike is known elsewhere in the world as the Dutch model. It is the upright because it is the easiest and most comfortable to sit on for typical city commutes where you are not trying to kill yourself like some drugged out courier.
You can see a huge difference with the US where the majority of bicycles are hobby bikes, not used for daily commutes. This translates to electric bikes, in the EU 250 watt is the limit, in the US it goes far higher and frankly, that is insane. If you add a throttle option (illegal in the EU) you just got yourself a moped. 2KW throttle electric bike is just a motor cycle without the rigidity or the brakes.
There is a very simple reason you see very little electric racing bicycles. If you use them for your hobby, the point is to use your own leg muscles to go fast. Adding an electric motor is like adding an electric motor to a stationary exercise bike. It reminds me of people who equip mountain bikes with 1KW motors in each wheel. Just buy a cross motor already and be done with it.
Electric city bikes are about making your commute easier while still doing a bit of exercise. I got one myself, the 250 watt engine gives just that extra boost to keep going so that when the wind is against you (ain't it always) you don't give a shit. Neither with slight uphill gradiants. I also find I don't hate it as much when the lights are against me because it takes far less effort to get back up to speed again which has made me a saver rider since there is no need to take risks to cut the number of times you need to slow down.
Also, the more forward you sit on a bike, the more you are crushing bits. Racing bikes comfortable? That must be why the most common bicycles are racing bikes. Oh wait. They are not.
Just maybe bike makers know more then you about what sells.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
The bending over you do to reduce drag isn't needed on an electric bike because even with just 250 watt, you basically got another set of legs pedalling. I got one myself and the biggest difference you notice straight away, apart from the insane acceleration (even mopeds have a hard time keeping up) is that WIND, the eternal enemy, is NO LONGER A FACTOR. Whoosh, GONE!
And the upright is not about BEING seen, in either position you are at the height of normal car windows, so plenty visible, it is about how easy YOU can see.
There just isn't a market for electric racing bikes. Not just because most racers don't want a support engine OR because the weight of engine and battery would triple the bike weight but because most build their own custom bikes and the best electric bikes use custom frames (mid-motor is where things are going).
The market for electric bikes simply ain't the health freaks, it is the people faced with a commute that is just to uncomfortable to ride themselves but who are not opposed to moving their legs a bit. People like me, I am neither fit nor unfit, I could ride 30 miles, I have done so when needed BUT I wouldn't do it of my own choice. I have a choice, go by car (longer commute and more expensive), cycle all the way (about 45 minutes) NO FUCKING WAY, go train + bus (extra waiting time kills commute time) or train + electric bike. WINNER! Fast, bit of excersize (downside, pants starting to fall down), cheap.
I am the target of the bike in the article. You are not.
This is no different from the eternal and rather boring debate about how electric cars don't have enough range to drive to another continent. NOT THE TARGET MARKET.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Fat people are not going to on a pedellic to begin with, they are going at most for an electric moped.
And if you buy a 500 dollar bike, you are not buying the same class of bike as 3500 dollar electric bike. 500 dollar bike is equal to a 1000 dollar electric bike.
Never go into business, you have no idea about market segmentation.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
??? Whats the point of all that? and how do you stand up and ride on that thing?
I've ridden an electric bike for 10 years now. They're great, I love mine. But they have a ton of issues:
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
... I want one you can't steal. Or that is significantly unfeasable to steal. Two long integrated articulated heavy-duty locks and QR codes etched into the frame at various places once I buy one with my name and ownership certificate at the end of the URL and an alert if I reported it stolen. Plus hidden RFID Chips to do the same. And an optional hidden UMTS/GPS Module in sleep mode, powered by the batteries and integrated into the electronics so I/the authorities can track it down and/or lock down the power unit / motor / controls with a cryptocode if the need arises. And a battery and an electronics/controls unit you can remove and carry with you with zero fuss.
Oh, and it should be sturdy enough for everyday use. Have yet to see an uncustomized bike, e- or otherwise, that offers that.
Once that happens, *then* I'll seriously consider shelling out 2000 Euros for an E-Bike. Until then they are a toy for people with to much money.
My 2 cents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
"Here is you precious uLock Security"
Welcome to TEN YEARS AGO. Seriously, that was in 2004. Kryptonite recalled them rather quickly, and most of the cycling community is well aware of the problem. Thanks for 'splaining to us something we already know, jackass. Why don't you try finding someone you know who bikes, and asking to see what their u-lock key looks like?
For more than ten years, the standard has been a flat/square key. They're sufficiently strong enough that thieves don't bother with them, mostly because there are still people who use cable locks, which can be cut with a variety of tools.
And yes, the people selling bikes at flea markets and out of the back of vans ARE selling stolen bikes. Legitimate used bike sales are private individuals on various forums including Craigslist (thieves have noticed that people patrol Craigslist looking for their stolen bikes) and via shops which increasingly stock used bikes.
Please help metamoderate.
When I first heard of the concept, I wanted to RUN out and buy one. Then I thought some more.
.
i) Will I need a registration -- a license plate -- for this thing in my state? If not now, then in the future? Seriously, why would this bike not be classified as an electric motorcycle?
ii) The price is a showstopper. $3500 for a heavy-framed bike with mid-to-high-end components. I've bought $1400 bikes in the past, but I can't see how a model like this should cost more than twice the price of something like a classic Fuji F.
iii) It is absolutely the ugliest fucking bicycle I've seen in a long time.
iv) Got to assume Li-Ion batteries. If so, you wind up with all the problems surrounding this technology. Heat, fire/explosion potential, danger of exposure to the elements, expensive replacement. Not a showstopper by any means, at least for me, but just one more thing.
v) It's one thing to buy a multi-kilobuck specialty bike that you don't normally ride into town and lock up in front of a Starbucks. Something like this, apparently meant to be a general-transportation vehicle, is gonna be a thief magnet. Ergo, esp., given i) above, that probably means buying vehicle insurance -- including liability and PIP, since this thing seems like it could do some damage to pedestrians in a higher-speed collision.
Other than that, I still have to say that I'm lusting after one of these things. Maybe Faraday will follow-up with a lower-cost model. You'd think by now that mfrs of these types of pioneering products would realize that a Segue business plan can severely limit growth. Once the technology is shaken out on the road and the company assembles robust distribution & manufacturing mechanisms, I'd hope that Faraday would release a lower-end model at a sweeter price point. At $500 or $600, I'd probably buy two.