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Electric Bikes Get More Elegant Every Year (Video)
Tim Lord first saw Faraday Bicycles at CES, where their bikes drew plenty of attention and a fair amount of media interest. The company ran a successful Kickstarter campaign in 2012, and 2014 is when they are starting to ship their pre-ordered bicycles and hope to get new orders for lots more. Tim's travels later took him to San Francisco, where he had a chance to visit the shop where Faraday bikes are made, and to talk with some of the people who are designing and making them. (If you don't see the video below, please use this link.)
I don't get why all these electric bikes have you sitting in such an upright position. I don't see why nobody takes an existing touring bike (like a road/racing bike, with drop bars, but a beefier frame and ability to add fenders and panniers), and adds an electric motor to that. With a much more aerodynamic position the motor would be much more efficient, and as most cyclists know, these bikes are much more comfortable anyway. Plus it would be a nice advantage to not have a completely unride-able bike in the case where your battery runs out.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
I think that bike is pretty cool, and I've been lucky to never have a bike stolen, but at that price tag, they better have put a LOT of thought into security before I would consider buying one.
Also, is it just me or does that bike scream hipster?
- Tempestdata
You should take a look at the product of this austrian company if you're looking for good-looking E-Bikes that don't look like E-Bikes at all.
They put their motor in the seat tube and it merely assists the pedaling,
Aside from the battery pack that disguises as a tool-pack right underneath the saddle you can't see it's an electric bicycle on the outside.
Their system is supposed to work in almost any off-the-shelf frame (with limitations for carbon frames).
They also have some carbon frames that work with their system, though apparently this doesn't work with most "stock" carbon-frames.
Have a look at their website: http://www.vivax-assist.com/en...
The main problem with e-bikes is they don't fit the bicycle category; they're really underpowered motorcycles. One of the first things I noticed in the clip was a brag about being able to go 20mph--most urban bike traffic will be going at half that speed, say 8-12 mph. (For example, one of the local biking groups shows that 18-20 mph is for top cyclist in a paceline.)
These really don't belong on multi-purpose trails or in bike lanes. The speed differential between them and normal bikes is just asking for accidents.
For $3500 the components are a real mixed bag. Sure no visible battery is nice, but other bikes have that too and 195Whr is very low as far as e-bikes go. A brooks leather saddle is very nice, but Avid mechanical disc brakes are entry-level. That's not to mention the really questionable choices of a belt drive and bamboo fenders.
Compare it to something like the Stromer Elite: http://www.electricbikesla.com...
Same price, nearly double the battery (approx 350Whr), no visible battery, a standard shimano sora chain drivetrain any bike mechanic can work on, and hydraulic disc brakes.
The racing position is favoured by people who race bikes. Those people wouldn't want an electric bike. The upright position is preferred by most people going to work, school etc by bicycle -- there's a better view, and it's more comfortable.
That really depends on how far you have to go. In my experience, upright seating might be more comfortable for short distances, and it's probably easier to get on and off. But I bicycle to my office most days, about 4.5 miles one way (which is not long) on a road bike outfitted with a rack and panniers. It is not a "racing" position, but I do lean forward and have drop handlebars. The seat is level with the handlebars.
That position removes a lot of weight from your crotch area, and transfers it to your arms. I find sharing the weight between two areas to be more comfortable, although it requires proper positioning of the handlebars, wearing gloves, and switching grip positions to keep hands and wrists comfortable.
The view is fine, and is amplified by a rear view mirror. Also wearing a high-visibility vest will do much more for your visibility than the difference between the two positions.
Then, the nice thing is I can remove the panniers and easily ride 30 miles or more on a weekend in a reasonable amount of time without needing a second bicycle.
"Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/04/10/03/2137229/e-bike-e-xperiences/
Based on a steel mountain bike frame, it's decidedly INelegant and heavy, but super-effective on a commute that rarely exceeds 20 MPH by car.
I got a solid 7 years out of a 36V 10AH NiMH battery pack before it croaked. Now it is resting in the basement until I decide to re-power it with some flavor of lithium.
In the original post I asked if the Golden Island machinery motor was any good. Neither the motor nor the controller gave me a day's trouble though the original wire was too thin.
I also asked about lead-acid batteries. They were garbage. Too heavy and the power faded below a useful level long before they were considered discharged. I got a good deal on an NiMH pack and was very pleased with it overall.
I have since lashed up a 48V test pack and really enjoyed the power it gives. The original controller seems to work fine at 48V, the capacitors are all rated 60v.
The best thing I did was add a Watts-UP meter so I can keep an eye on remaining capacity and monitor power flow.
The most alarming thing about the bike is the brakes which are marginally adequate for the combined weight of bike and rider. They need to be upgraded before I hit the road again.
I know the sound varies from OK to less OK on here; that's because I somehow flubbed the audio recorded separately. Robin (Roblimo) Miller in editing the footage together did a great job of patching over some of the crazy industrial noises from the adjoining shop (which makes, of all things, electric motorcyles; the places are not related). I didn't realize I'd have a chance to shoot this video, so the footage is all from a point-and-shoot Canon camera that I bought via Craigslist for $80 a few weeks before; I think it did a credible job of focus, etc.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
1)Buy a U-lock.
2)Change out anything "quick release" (aka quick-steal") to bolts or security skewers.
3)Put the U-lock through the rear wheel, inside the frame's rear triangle. Now neither the wheel nor frame can be stolen.
4)Attach the U-lock to something that is solidly and directly attached to the ground. Signposts that are bolted to something don't count. Porch railings don't count. Etc.
5)Remove lights and such.
Don't subscribe to the "cheap crappy bike nobody would want to steal." Guess what there's a large market for, and guess which bikes are the easiest for criminals to unload? It's hard to sell a $1k bike. Not so hard to sell a $100 beat-up bike.
Don't buy bikes from guys selling them out of the backs of vans, fly-by-night-looking shops, flea markets, etc. THEY ARE PROBABLY STOLEN.
Lastly: REPORT STOLEN BICYCLES. One of the reasons they continue to be stolen is that nobody bothers to report their bike getting stolen.
Please help metamoderate.
Got me. My 1996 Jeep Cherokee cost me less than an electric hipster bike -- and I don't think I've ever paid more than $150 for a bike in my whole life. I've got maybe $125 in my current (highly customized) bike, including lights and a pretty good lock.
The Copenhagen Wheel is a much better concept, and cheaper, too.
It goes farther, runs longer, weighs less, uses regenerative braking to charge on the go, and best of all, you can remove it easily for security purposes.
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I live in the part of Florida (Manatee & Sarasota counties) that has the highest bicycle accident rate in the state. The bikes rarely cause accidents - crappy drivers do, and we've got a load of them around here.
Because of this, combined with poor balance and general weakness since my 2010 heart attacks, I don't ride on the main roads but stick to side streets around my home that have low speed limits.
Sometimes I think it would be nice to have a powered bike so I could keep up with traffic better but then I remember that I have a car. So I'll probably do a 6-speed or 7-speed trike as my next cycle-type transport device. And it probably won't have an electric assist unless one pops up really cheap on Craigslist. And even then, probably not. I need more exercise.
the riders aren't.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
That's right it's all the car driver. The Bicyclist never tuck into blind spots, jump on and off the side walk, and violate nearly ever pedestrian and vehicle law there is.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
You got it all:
Elitist:
". NEVER buy a "big box" store bike, for a ton of reasons."
Entitled:
"infrastructure " i.e. we want you to design the city for us..at other peoples expense.
Persecution
" and societal attitudes. Namely that bicycles are toys, not serious transportation,"
"noting that cyclists are treated like any other minority outgroup."
Superiority
" I generally find that drivers have far less understanding of the basic rules of the road and what cyclists are allowed to do or aren't"
Exaggeration. Also out of context factoid
"and does, to the tune of 40,000 a year in the US alone"
Pointless factoids:
"Bicycling was HUGE in the late 1800'"
Paranoia
"So they fought back with a campaign of ridiculing pedestrians and cyclists. "
Lies:
Just as it became the fault of the "jaywalker" for daring to step into the street except where specifically allowed to, suddenly it became the fault of cyclists when motorists plowed into them.
"Bicycling is the most energy-efficient way to move,"
nope.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
People are getting fatter and fatter, they need to be the engine so they can lose the excess baggage, not spend $3500 on something that allows them to continue to be lazy. Also E-bikes are way overpriced for what you get. I recommend getting a regular bike and saving yourself $2500 to $3000 instead. If it's really just for transporation then buy a used scooter or small motorcycle, they're a much better value.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
Oh please. I know 200+ pound guys who were bombing on mountain bikes before disks were invented, they survived just fine with cantilevers. A decent steel frame doesn't weigh much more than aluminum or carbon fiber, maybe a couple pounds, plus another 10-20 pounds for the battery and motor.
Not saying disks are a bad idea, but no, an electric bike isn't so heavy that it just can't be stopped without them.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
You can not get a good bicycle that cheap, sure you can spend lots of time renovating old bicycles, but they probably did cost a lot more than $150 when new.
"Bicycling is the most energy-efficient way to move,"
nope.
Yes it is. (I'm not going to bother with the rest since it's just your opinions)
not so much if you want to turn. or having to hug the side of the road
your numbers are wayyyy of , sorry you are very misinformed
And not a single moment of the thing in operation. I smell a fish. And the price! Jeeze!
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
For all the wrongheaded transit ideas in NYC, banning electric bikes is on the list of bad ideas. Something between a bicycle and a taxi cab is needed, and Americans don't do mopeds.
From someone who built his own electric bike, the one shown is pretty crap. zero suspension on a heavier than normal bike is a bad idea, and will limit what you can do. Also 250 watts is nothing, i know thats all that is legal in europe, and actully too powerfull for australia, but you can have 750 watts in america, and i havn't met a cop with multimeter yet; ultimately the more power, the more usefull, and fun (although it adds to the price of motor and battery). Lastly its too expensive, mine using a mountain bike frame, 1kw motor, and 1/2 kwh battery cost around $2000, it dosn't look as pretty, but it will kick this bikes ass (full offroad capable and will do 55kph on the flat if the wind is blowing the right way).
Rocket Surgeon.
Nope you should buy the wheel I invented... its powered by an interocitor for infinite free energy so you never need to pedal or recharge it...and just like the Copenhagen wheel it isn't actually available yet either.
That's why I recommend crank forward type of recumbent, it turns well enough and doesn't look weird compared to a full on recumbents:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Obviously doesn't have the full aerodymic efficiency of a full bent but it has the comfort.
I would put up pics of full on recumbents but there are so many varieties of type, short wheelbase to long wheelbase, to canopied ones like a velomobile, that it would be pointless, as what holds for one might not hold for another.
I'm guessing a short wheelbase recumbent with the crank over the front wheel should handle turns well also but that is just a guess.
The reason you don't buy bikes from a big-box store: they don't use standardized components, the components they come with don't last long (and then when it's time to replace them, surrrrrpise, your local bike shop can't find something that fits) and there are a lot of basic design flaws with the frames and such. It's not "elitist" to say "that bike you bought from Wallyworld is a waste of money because it's going to fall apart."
I'm not entitled if I want the roads *I PAID FOR JUST LIKE YOU* to be designed to not EXCLUDE me.
Cyclists ARE a persecuted group and I'm not going to debate that with you. Go argue with a black man about whether there's still racism Because Obama, or something.
Bicycles are the most energy-efficient transportation method. Google it.
I'm not going to bother responding to your other ignorant crap. Google it.
Please help metamoderate.
Yeah right... your an idiot but at least you are not alone. In the Netherlands, one of the most cycle friendly countries in the world, the "normal" bike is known elsewhere in the world as the Dutch model. It is the upright because it is the easiest and most comfortable to sit on for typical city commutes where you are not trying to kill yourself like some drugged out courier.
You can see a huge difference with the US where the majority of bicycles are hobby bikes, not used for daily commutes. This translates to electric bikes, in the EU 250 watt is the limit, in the US it goes far higher and frankly, that is insane. If you add a throttle option (illegal in the EU) you just got yourself a moped. 2KW throttle electric bike is just a motor cycle without the rigidity or the brakes.
There is a very simple reason you see very little electric racing bicycles. If you use them for your hobby, the point is to use your own leg muscles to go fast. Adding an electric motor is like adding an electric motor to a stationary exercise bike. It reminds me of people who equip mountain bikes with 1KW motors in each wheel. Just buy a cross motor already and be done with it.
Electric city bikes are about making your commute easier while still doing a bit of exercise. I got one myself, the 250 watt engine gives just that extra boost to keep going so that when the wind is against you (ain't it always) you don't give a shit. Neither with slight uphill gradiants. I also find I don't hate it as much when the lights are against me because it takes far less effort to get back up to speed again which has made me a saver rider since there is no need to take risks to cut the number of times you need to slow down.
Also, the more forward you sit on a bike, the more you are crushing bits. Racing bikes comfortable? That must be why the most common bicycles are racing bikes. Oh wait. They are not.
Just maybe bike makers know more then you about what sells.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
The bending over you do to reduce drag isn't needed on an electric bike because even with just 250 watt, you basically got another set of legs pedalling. I got one myself and the biggest difference you notice straight away, apart from the insane acceleration (even mopeds have a hard time keeping up) is that WIND, the eternal enemy, is NO LONGER A FACTOR. Whoosh, GONE!
And the upright is not about BEING seen, in either position you are at the height of normal car windows, so plenty visible, it is about how easy YOU can see.
There just isn't a market for electric racing bikes. Not just because most racers don't want a support engine OR because the weight of engine and battery would triple the bike weight but because most build their own custom bikes and the best electric bikes use custom frames (mid-motor is where things are going).
The market for electric bikes simply ain't the health freaks, it is the people faced with a commute that is just to uncomfortable to ride themselves but who are not opposed to moving their legs a bit. People like me, I am neither fit nor unfit, I could ride 30 miles, I have done so when needed BUT I wouldn't do it of my own choice. I have a choice, go by car (longer commute and more expensive), cycle all the way (about 45 minutes) NO FUCKING WAY, go train + bus (extra waiting time kills commute time) or train + electric bike. WINNER! Fast, bit of excersize (downside, pants starting to fall down), cheap.
I am the target of the bike in the article. You are not.
This is no different from the eternal and rather boring debate about how electric cars don't have enough range to drive to another continent. NOT THE TARGET MARKET.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Fat people are not going to on a pedellic to begin with, they are going at most for an electric moped.
And if you buy a 500 dollar bike, you are not buying the same class of bike as 3500 dollar electric bike. 500 dollar bike is equal to a 1000 dollar electric bike.
Never go into business, you have no idea about market segmentation.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
So you never know the feeling of riding a really good bike.
Just as a comparison, my commuter bike was worth about EUR2000 in parts (I build my bikes myself) and it is not an electric bike.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
??? Whats the point of all that? and how do you stand up and ride on that thing?
Isn't it wonderful FINALLY being able to label yourself as a member of a "persecuted group"? It must feel great, after being left out so long.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
I've ridden an electric bike for 10 years now. They're great, I love mine. But they have a ton of issues:
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
... I want one you can't steal. Or that is significantly unfeasable to steal. Two long integrated articulated heavy-duty locks and QR codes etched into the frame at various places once I buy one with my name and ownership certificate at the end of the URL and an alert if I reported it stolen. Plus hidden RFID Chips to do the same. And an optional hidden UMTS/GPS Module in sleep mode, powered by the batteries and integrated into the electronics so I/the authorities can track it down and/or lock down the power unit / motor / controls with a cryptocode if the need arises. And a battery and an electronics/controls unit you can remove and carry with you with zero fuss.
Oh, and it should be sturdy enough for everyday use. Have yet to see an uncustomized bike, e- or otherwise, that offers that.
Once that happens, *then* I'll seriously consider shelling out 2000 Euros for an E-Bike. Until then they are a toy for people with to much money.
My 2 cents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
"Here is you precious uLock Security"
Welcome to TEN YEARS AGO. Seriously, that was in 2004. Kryptonite recalled them rather quickly, and most of the cycling community is well aware of the problem. Thanks for 'splaining to us something we already know, jackass. Why don't you try finding someone you know who bikes, and asking to see what their u-lock key looks like?
For more than ten years, the standard has been a flat/square key. They're sufficiently strong enough that thieves don't bother with them, mostly because there are still people who use cable locks, which can be cut with a variety of tools.
And yes, the people selling bikes at flea markets and out of the back of vans ARE selling stolen bikes. Legitimate used bike sales are private individuals on various forums including Craigslist (thieves have noticed that people patrol Craigslist looking for their stolen bikes) and via shops which increasingly stock used bikes.
Please help metamoderate.