What If the Next Presidential Limo Was a Tesla?

cartechboy writes "The presidential limo is known as "The Beast," and it's getting to be about that time where it's replaced. Currently The Beast is a General Motors creation with a Cadillac badge, but what if the next presidential limo was a Tesla? Stick with me here. The Beast is a massive vehicle, which means there would be plenty of room in the structure to have a long battery pack a la Model S. Plus, it could use the upcoming Model X's all-wheel-drive system. Tesla's air suspension would keep it from encountering high-centering issues. There could even be a charging port on both the front and back so a battery truck could hook up while driving, like in-flight refueling. Obviously the battery pack would need to have extra protection so it wouldn't have any issues with road debris, but that's a minor issue. Tesla is an American company, and that's a requirement for The Beast. So is it that far fetched to think the next presidential limo could be a Tesla?"

Comments

Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't it weigh, well... quite a bit?

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[brainboyz]

You mean more than it already does loaded with armor?

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Cimexus]

It already weighs a LOT due to all the thick armor plating. In fact some places have issues with allowing it because it exceeds the design tolerances for the pavement. The added weight of battery packs wouldn't really be that significant, especially if they can save weight on the engine or other parts.

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Anonymous Coward]

20,000 pounds and 8mpg!. No way are you going to move that amount of weight around for any range on electric.

Personally I think he should be in a regular vehicle though, America needs to kick the fossil-fuel habit and drive smaller more efficient cars, and its 'leader' should give up the narcissism and lead by example.(no one human being is _that_ important)

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[viperidaenz]

I know, right!
They should remove the armour plating from all the tanks too. People aren't that important.

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Jarik C-Bol]

It weighs that much and gets that bad of milage because its as close to being an Abrams tank as you can get while still looking like a limo. I don't think the president has much of a say in the vehicles they use to transport him, and "The Beast" exists mostly because of Kennedy and various other attempts on American presidents. Besides, there are far more effective ways for the president to "Lead" us into a greener future. (Maybe cutting back on those vacations that are half a planet worth of jet fuel away for one.)

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, people are going to get shot in tanks regardless.

The presidential limousine could be made of paper machete as long as everybody believes it's a 20,000 pound piece of impenetrable steel.

Seriously, it's probably mostly dead weight. All you need to repel are small arms fire. If some organization was well prepared enough to place road side bombs, place shoulder fired rockets, etc, on American soil in major urban centers, then the strength of the limousine is the least of your problems.

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Think BIG!

What if the next presidential limo was 3000 mics of LSD, Donald Sutherland reading "The Cat In the Hat" and a disco ball?

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[mrchaotica]

Besides, there are far more effective ways for the president to "Lead" us into a greener future. (Maybe cutting back on those vacations that are half a planet worth of jet fuel away for one.)

More like "vacations that are a full plane load worth of secret service agents and other assorted aides away" -- if the Prez flew commercial it wouldn't be such a big deal.

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Trepidity]

"The Beast" exists mostly because of Kennedy and various other attempts on American presidents

That's true, but there's some middle ground between riding completely open-air in a convertible, and riding around in a quasi-tank. All you need to stop JFK-style attacks is an enclosed vehicle that can stop bullets, like the Popemobile.

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[ArcadeMan]

You don't need much armour plating if the driver is sitting in an office hundreds or thousands of kilometers away and the drones are fighting in space or at least at the top of very high mountains.

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Anonymous Coward]

that would be extraordinarily ineffective, to have a paper machete. what, you give everything paper cuts? Heck, my papier mache armor could block that!

Re: Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[kenh]

There's a number of reasons why we don't have electric tanks, and those are the reasons the next 'Beast' will not be electric:

Weight
Time to recharge
Life of charge
Massive engine needed to move armored vehicle
Massive batteries needed to power the massive engine

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Cley Faye]

If my memory's correct, one of the issue was that the car needed to have a certain minimal acceleration that couldn't be delivered by an electric engine, with all the weight it would have to pull. If I'm right, and the requirements didn't change, well...

Re: Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[kenh]

Solar panels on the roof of the White House? Jimmy Carter AND Barack Obama both put them on the roof, they were taken down when calmer heads prevailed and the symbolism was no longer needed after Carter left office.

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[amicusNYCL]

Bullets? What about IEDs? Or RPGs?

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Anonymous Coward]

WARNING: Do not allow the beast near water

Re: Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[The Cat]

You see kids, the internal combustion engine is the absolute pinnacle of automobile power technology.

So put away your chemistry sets and your CAD applications. There's nowhere to go from here.

Re: Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[guruevi]

You got bigger problems then. Even actual tanks are disabled/destroyed by those. Heck, an armor penetrating bullet or bullets will do.

Re: Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[jklovanc]

The article states we could do it now but the fact that the Beast is so heavy, due to its armor and other features, for batteries to be an effective power source. Keep inventing and when heavy battery power vehicles can match the performance of heavy IC vehicles then we can switch. Now is just not the time.

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Cimexus]

The Beast goes everywhere. They load it onto the plane and drive the President around in it when he makes any official visit to a country. So it's not just "on American soil" you need to worry about.

I strongly suspect it's the most-widely-travelled wheeled vehicle on earth actually :)

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Cimexus]

And that's saying something, considering the current Beast does 0-60 mph / 0-100 km/h in 14 or 15 seconds (due to its weight). It's not exactly the best performing thing on the road, that's for sure ;)

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[TheGavster]

As Truman famously said, The Buck Stops Here. The president is the head of the executive branch and the commander in chief of the armed forces. He absolutely has authority over his personal security. My opinion? Take a queue from the Queen and take public transit. Or from the Pope and walk. Even heads of states who have boots on the ground in Afghanistan fly commercial. Nothing supports a culture of fear more than a leader who doesn't have enough faith in his people to travel among them.

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[sphealey]

= = = I strongly suspect it's the most-widely-travelled wheeled vehicle on earth actually :) = = =

I believe Rolls Royce has some demo vehicles that have been on the road since the aughts (the 19-aughts that is, not the 20-aughts) and have visited more countries than all US Presidents combined ;-)

sPh

Re: Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Anonymous Coward]

Can't you line the passenger compartment with nice, dense Lithium polymer?

Forgive me if I'm wrong (yeah, right), but can't these newfangled batteries work with a hole in them?

Won't they stop a slug at 2" thick as well as provide emergency 'get POTUS out of Dodge' range?

Re: Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[cascadingstylesheet]

There's a number of reasons why we don't have electric tanks, and those are the reasons the next 'Beast' will not be electric:

Weight Time to recharge Life of charge Massive engine needed to move armored vehicle Massive batteries needed to power the massive engine

But, but ... actually working doesn't matter.

It's electric! {funky seventies jive plays ... }

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Anonymous Coward]

Acceleration and torque are not weaknesses of electric engines.

Re: Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, considering how fast engines matured vs how long ago that happened, I'd say there's a case there. I hope you're not one of these clowns who thinks that anything at all is possible because computers got better? We didn't discover any new elements recently, did we? I mean something that lasts more than a nanosecond before flying apart...

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[stabiesoft]

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. One of the things I hated about bush was his constant vacationing, and frankly obama has not been any better. I long for a president that actually takes the job seriously like clinton did. I want my prez to be like a startup, working his/her ass off. I had one vacation in 4 years at the startup I was at. Most holidays and weekends were at the plant too.

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[nobuddy]

http://www.dailybreeze.com/gen...

Try 80,000lbs.

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[nobuddy]

One engine driving 2 wheels (maybe one- does the Beast have positrac?) through a transmission and axle
vs
4 motors each applyting power directly to each wheel working in concert to maximize traction and acceleration.

I'll take option two if acceleration is needed.

Re: Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[JoeMerchant]

Ummm... what about the massive explosive potential of a battery big enough to power a beast that heavy?

O.K. O.K. so, it probably won't explode with deadly force, but imagine the news footage if somebody managed to get it to ignite.

Would you really want that tempting a target? Yes, yes, gasoline is also explosive, but it is all too common.

Having the POTUS' ride carrying a rare, if not unique, flammability potential feels, arrogant.

Re: Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Richy_T]

Having the POTUS' ride carrying a rare, if not unique, flammability potential feels, arrogant.

Perfect fit then.

Re: Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[TWX]

I'm fairly sure that the primary fuel for the current car is diesel, not gasoline, though I wouldn't be surprised if it's a multifuel engine capable of running on both. Diesel is a lot less volatile than gasoline and diesel engines are more efficient in larger displacements than gasoline engines.

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[YttriumOxide]

What if the next presidential limo was 3000 mics of LSD, Donald Sutherland reading "The Cat In the Hat" and a disco ball?

Then clearly the world would be a better place.

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Anonymous Coward]

The tgv is electric. top speed : 350 mph, with : weight : a lot more than this thing.

Re: Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[TheLink]

Yeah pure battery won't work well. Hybrid+battery/capacitor would be better. Electric motor tech is fine for heavy stuff - diesel electric locomotives are really heavy.

Depending on the engine/turbine you could even have multi-fuel support - gas, petrol diesel, vegetable oil. This gives you more options in crisis scenarios.

Re: Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Jack Griffin]

Why does the next beast have to be a beast? Why can't the POTUS just drive around in a regular car like everyone else? Assassination? Fuck him he'll be replaced easily, that is the strength of the democracy. I say give the next POTUS a standard Tesla S and get over the crazy security theatre that treats the President like a king. He (she one day) is supposed to be a public servant not a rock star. It's time to start acting like a servant and less like a deity.

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[FatLittleMonkey]

if the Prez flew commercial it wouldn't be such a big deal.

Nixon did that. [Turned out they were flying AF-1 along behind him, just in case he needed a fast return trip.]

Might as well fly on a military transport. Saves buying dedicated aircraft. And the President gets nice photo-ops in a military-style flight-suit, walking down the loading ramp of a C-130.

Which might solve the problem of the next Presidential limo. Just use a few off-the-shelf APCs. Problem solved.

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Anonymous Coward]

It uses the running gear off a Chevy "Kodiak" 4x4 light truck. (With the 7lt diesel option.)

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Talderas]

Even better! It comes equipped with Morgan Freeman reading a telephone book. That tops Donald Sutherland reading "The Cat in the Hat".

Re: Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[bmajik]

Diesel-electric hybrids (like how a locomotive works) are actually just starting to show up in heavy equipment like articulated wheel loaders. There are some huge advantages. The electric motors are quieter which means the operators can work closer to existing population and work more hours of the day. The combustion engine only ever runs at peak efficiency to generate electricity. Fuel savings is around 30% compared to mechanical drive. Packaging is much easier due to flexibility of routing cables instead of moving shafts.

An all electric beast is probably a ways off, but a diesel electric hybrid with even a trivial all-electric low speed cruising range before firing up the diesel is probably an interesting possibility.

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[aled]

I know, right!
They should remove the armour plating from all the tanks too. People aren't that important.

Count how many tanks there are and how many people in the world.
Which one is the scarcest resource?

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Miamicanes]

No sane airline would *allow* the President to fly commercially. It would be like painting a red target across its metaphorical face and daring terrorists to attack them, in return for less money and staggeringly-higher security expenses than it would otherwise have if normal people bought the tickets. And when the inevitable attack *did* happen, they'd get hit by lawsuits from everyone who ended up being "collateral damage". The amount of money they'd have to charge to guarantee that the service would be revenue-neutral for them (taking into account things like attacks) would probably be four times the amount we currently pay for the Secret Service and military to handle the logistics.

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Anonymous Coward]

The Queen and the Pope are almost universally liked. The POTUS, regardless of which one it is, usually has an approval rating of, at most, a little above 50%. That's a big difference.

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Quila]

Bush had a mini White House set up at the ranch in Texas. Aside from brush clearing photo ops, he was basically at work, just away from the DC crazy. He even hosted foreign dignitaries there. A lot of infrastructure was put in place at the ranch and could stay there until Bush left office.

What OP is talking about is the jet-setting of Obama and his wife around the world, filling many international flights of AF1 and attending cargo planes, extravagant hotels at an obscene cost. While a president can never truly be on vacation, these are more like real vacations than Bush usually took.

Re: Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Bob the Super Hamste]

They haven't just started showing up in heavy equipment but have been trickling down to smaller heavy equipment for a while. Going back to the 70s there were the 240 short ton trucks that were diesel electrics that were working in mines. These types of trucks are still in use and even the new ultra class of haul trucks are basically all diesel electrics.

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[stabiesoft]

I am afraid I'll disagree. While it may have cost less to fly bush to crawford, I don't agree he was working (well for us anyway). I live in TX so probably more aware of his activities in crawford. Mainly he worked his ranch, drove his ATV's around with friends, rode mountain bikes with people like armstrong and generally had a good time. He did host a couple of dignitaries one of which was putin if I remember right. I think these two provided/provide less than adequate effort to their job. Frankly I think part of the job description of prez should be no more than 2wks of vacation/yr. You want more time off, find another job. Need a break, they can always hang in the facilities in DC for weekends/short breaks. Obama plays bball, bush could have ridden around the whitehouse lawn on his bike. These people are the most powerful in the world. Take the job if your ready to man up, not use it for your ego.

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Quila]

So he rode bikes, while Obama goes golfing constantly. The rest of the time he was working. A president can't ever really go on vacation, but Bush had the facilities to do his job there.

Need a break, they can always hang in the facilities in DC for weekends/short breaks.

That's what Camp David is for, and why it's generally not counted as vacation time. The president can work in a more relaxed atmosphere away from the DC crazy, maybe take a quiet stroll, go horse riding, whatever. Bush just preferred home. Obama actually goes on real vacations, not having a vacation home (he likes to stay at the homes of rich Democrat donors).

Re: Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Marxist Hacker 42]

I want a diesel electric school bus.

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[RobertM1968]

If my memory's correct, one of the issue was that the car needed to have a certain minimal acceleration that couldn't be delivered by an electric engine, with all the weight it would have to pull. If I'm right, and the requirements didn't change, well...

Except, especially with all wheel drive and two to four motors, such is no longer true - as Tesla has proven with motors that aren't particularly large in a car that's considerably heavy compared to its gas counterparts.

The correct statement would have been " the car needed to have a certain minimal acceleration that couldn't be delivered (by GM) by an electric engine (as GM has no interest in doing anything that leads credence to the viability of any electric vehicles." The same would apply to other automakers - but more especially to the EV1 destroying, battery technology suppressing GM.

Considering the size of the vehicle (figure mega-Suburban, extended, if you don't recognize the truck platform mentioned), plenty of battery power could be put into it, and four larger motors (than the ONE motor in the Model S) could also fit - as would Subaru's concept 3 motor (two rear, one front) design. As a matter of fact, with all wheels independently driven via computer, there's also the increase in traction to consider for quick (from stop or slow speed) acceleration.

Re: Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[astar]

Ultracaps. A GF will replace my electric car battery nicely. This is off the shelf stuff. Energy to mass and energy to volume is little weak but it can discharge and recharge instantly. Powers the auto missile defense lasers too. Think of a beuwulf of those.

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[stabiesoft]

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I feel both bush and obama have a poor work ethic. Bush sr was much better as was clinton. I think the fundamental problem in politics now is that the prize/reward is the job and the work is the campaign. This is true for almost all politicians now, more so as the position elevates.

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[viperidaenz]

There are more tank operators than presidents.

Re: Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[qfman]

Ye of little vision. The ICE will go the way of the buggy whip as a more compact and longer lasting source of electricity comes on line. There is more than one on the way including this already road tested one. http://youtu.be/RqLpqR0SPnQ link found on http://www.gizmag.com/900-hp-s...

Re:Don't they have to fly that thing around?

[Wolfrider]

--Dude, he's the 1st black POTUS. You have NO IDEA what kind of stress he's under. Think you can do a better job? Then feel free, go ahead and run for office. I would rather have him be able to de-stress and be able to think with a clear(er) head.

/ not a fanboi, just being realistic - POTUS is a job I would never want. Turns your hair gray.

Probably still

[the_skywise]

be required to buy it through a dealer though...

Re:Probably still

[Anonymous Coward]

Can someone explain why that is the way it is?

Re:Probably still

[mcl630]

Dealers have a lot of political clout.

Re:Probably still

[bobbied]

And money to keep their political clout.

Re: Probably still

[Anonymous Coward]

Anti trust laws

Re:Probably still

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't buy these things from a dealer... but Tesla's probably not bidding on government contracts any time soon.

Re:Probably still

[Anonymous Coward]

From my understanding -
Basically the government made car manufacturing/selling a sort of mini-regulated industry to prevent monopolistic control and gain some political clout. Overtime everything just got entrenched. The dealers issue with Tesla isn't the car itself or even the competition per se (I'm sure some dealers would love to sell the car) but that the dealers have been forced to work under a regulatory framework that Tesla doesn't have to abide by and that gives Tesla an unfair advantage (spread the pain evenly, my friend).

Kind of like local mom and pop shops complaining about internet stores like Amazon.

Re:Probably still

[ClickOnThis]

You don't buy these things from a dealer...

Exactly. Good luck going to your Cadillac dealer and asking for the Presidential Limo options. I suppose a Saudi prince can order one, but it's a custom job in any case.

but Tesla's probably not bidding on government contracts any time soon.

Well, let's wait and see.

Re:Probably still

[R3d M3rcury]

Well, in the local economy, car dealers can be pretty important.

Car dealerships take up big hunks of land, and pay big hunks of property taxes. So the idea that you could have a car dealership in an extra-wide store in a mall is scary to local politicians because that's going to mean less revenue to the city. When GM closed their Pontiac and Saturn divisions, lots of localities felt the pinch. It was particularly bad in some areas that are zoned exclusively for auto dealerships--it's not like you could replace it with a mall or apartments or something like that.

So besides the dealers saying "We don't want competition," you also have local politicians saying, "if this catches on, we'll lose those property taxes!"

Re:Probably still

[davester666]

actually, property taxes for them are relatively low, because while they take up a bunch of land, they primarily pave over most of it and have a small [for the size of the property] building as a showroom/repair center. and they do things like set up in surrounding suburbs where property taxes are lower.

Well then it likely...

[Anonymous Coward]

...would get banned from New Jersey.

Re:Well then it likely...

[PrimeWaveZ]

...would get banned from New Jersey.

It'll get "stuck" trying to get out of NYC.

Re:Well then it likely...

[rossdee]

I'm sure Chris and his appointees at the port authority would love to have the GWB shut down for a day so that the presidential motorcade could get across

So what if the "presidential whatever" is whatever

[Lumpio-]

Does it make any practical difference? Is there any point to this post?

Armor is too heavy

[spiritplumber]

Tesla's drive system is not quite up there yet. But I wouldn't be surprised if the next one was a hybrid, just to show hybridness off.

Re:Armor is too heavy

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. No one knows the specs of the Presidential Limo; that's all classified, but the power train in that thing has got to outstrip anything Tesla is capable of yet, because all of the equipment and armor plating and the requirement for the number of staff the president always has with him, I think Tesla's a few years away from matching that.

Tesla's a great car, but their key hurdle to really make a difference is pure horsepower. Once you can replace an 18 wheeler's diesel engine with an electric drive system, then you've changed the world and made a real impact on emissions. Personal cars are a good start, but freight hauling is the real deal when it comes to replacing oil for transporation energy.

Re:Armor is too heavy

[profplump]

There are plenty of high-power electric drive systems. Trains and busses have been using them for decades. Walmart recently demoed a turbine-powered hybrid 18 wheeler with 100% electric drive power. The reason Tesla doesn't have an 800 HP electric drive is not that they don't exist, it's that they're big and expensive, just like 800 HP hydrocarbon engines.

Re:Armor is too heavy

[lucm]

If they do so, there will be an interesting question: do they have to pay the $1.43-a-mile EV tax when they drive on roads in other countries? Or maybe "not polluting" is worth a fine only in America?

Re:Armor is too heavy

[Anonymous Coward]

s/horsepower/torque, which electric engines are good at.

Re:Armor is too heavy

[bobbied]

Tesla's drive system is not quite up there yet. But I wouldn't be surprised if the next one was a hybrid, just to show hybridness off.

Perhaps, but if it goes much past just having the Hybrid insignia glued to the side, I'd be surprised. The presidential Limo is about two things. First, to protect the president from all manor of threats while going down the road (Which means armor, speed and agility). Second, maintain the illusion of being "normal" in appearance. Gas mileage or being "green" would have to be an illusion at best and unless the hybrid configuration added to the armor, speed or agility you can forget it.

Re:Armor is too heavy

[mrchaotica]

Once you can replace an 18 wheeler's diesel engine with an electric drive system, then you've changed the world and made a real impact on emissions.

Why bother? Just run the diesel engine you already have on biodiesel.

Re:Armor is too heavy

[wagnerrp]

If it's 100% electric drive, then it's a turbo-electric drive train, not a hybrid drive train. In order to be a hybrid, you need two or more types of motor directly providing motive force.

Re:Armor is too heavy

[O('_')O_Bush]

Well, the simple fact is that until the energy density problem is solved, electric vehicles, no matter who the manufacturer, will be a massive compromise with ICE vehicles.

You get to choose between power (acceleration, not speed) and range, when compared to ICEs. And that isn't even bringing up the problem of refueling (which is less of a problem since there are multiple 'Beasts' as backup).

The USSS won't be jumping on "we can get away from a trap, bomb, shootout, blockade, whatever, but can't make it to our safe destination" anytime soon.

Give the technology a few more decades, and maybe then it will compete. But given how ICEs have improved in the last decade, maybe not.

Re:Armor is too heavy

[Anonymous Coward]

s/horsepower/torque, which electric engines are good at.

That means nothing; we're talking about a full electric drive train. There are hybrid models that convert chemical to electric to kinetic, but that's not what we're discussing. A full electric drive train means sufficient battery power stored on board the vehicle and a motor that can convert it to kinetic energy without massive energy drain; none of that exists on a level that can provide sufficient horsepower to be meaningful for a truck haul, even short distance drayage from a seaport or airport direct delivery. Diesel is it.

There was a comment about bio-diesel below; that'll never happen. Biodiesel is not nearly as fuel efficient as oil, except for sugar based ethanol but there isn't a lot of traction there for reasons I can't fathom; plus there is a marked economic effect on the price of food if you mass switch to bio-diesel that will have other repercussions.

Re:Armor is too heavy

[Anonymous Coward]

And what Walmart demoed was in fact a hybrid, not 100% electric. It's a microturbine that can run on diesel, natural gas or biodiesal. It's also enormous. There's a reason that high power electric engines go in things like trains and buses. And there sure as shit isn't room for one in a limo that weighs as much as a bus.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/03/06/3372761/walmart-wave-truck-fuel-efficiency/

Re:Armor is too heavy

[wagnerrp]

The use of a true hybrid drive train (and not the nonsensical "serial hybrid") only makes sense in a tractor trailer because you need high sustained power output, and a hybrid helps keep weight and cost down by not requiring the use of an additional huge generator tied to the powerful engine. Hybrid race cars make sense for the same reason. Consumer vehicles have no such sustained power requirement, and thus do not make sense.

Re:Armor is too heavy

[wagnerrp]

Reading the article, it seems it's a "series hybrid"... aka, not-a-hybrid. It's just simple turbo-electric.

Re:Armor is too heavy

[ultranova]

Once you can replace an 18 wheeler's diesel engine with an electric drive system, then you've changed the world and made a real impact on emissions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_locomotive

It's a pity Tesla's wireless transmission of electricity didn't work, otherwise all vehicles would be electric.

Re:Armor is too heavy

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not horsepower, it's torque. Diesels and gas engines have very different specs in that regard and you can' compare HP between the two. Take a look at the HP of the Hummer, the real one.

Re:Armor is too heavy

[Teancum]

Wireless transmission of electricity works just fine. That is how radios work if you weren't aware of that feature, and how crystal radio sets get their power. Some rather innovative people living near high voltage power lines (the big stuff that carries electrical power from one major metro area to another) have even set up coils and "receivers" to tap into that power.... much to the bane of power companies who hunt those guys down and try to shut them down too (as they do draw power from the towers).

The largest problem with wireless power distribution on a large scale is that it plays havoc with communications frequencies. You also get no free lunch with the idea as power still is required in order to transmit the electricity in the first place, often with a substantial loss in power. On the whole, physical distribution lines are much more effective and efficient, which is why I guess Tesla "failed".

Tesla by it self not enough

[zlives]

and what if it was paid for by using bitcoin...
now i think this post has all the magic words to make it a successful slashertisment.

Re:Tesla by it self not enough

[oodaloop]

And Edward Snowden was the driver.

Re:Tesla by it self not enough

[zlives]

quit making my post uber good... o'wait NSA

Re:Tesla by it self not enough

[riverat1]

and what if it was paid for by using bitcoin...

Created out of thin air by the Federal Reserve.

Re:So what if the "presidential whatever" is whate

[the_skywise]

Heh... you mean like a History channel special?

What if the next Presidential Limo was... a space alien?!

Not EMP resistant

[EngineeringStudent]

If there was WWIII then el gran fromage would be powerless and unprotected where he was the moment it hit.
If there was the right, wrong time of solar storm, then el heffe might be getting an unintended suntan while waiting for combustion engine vehicles.

There might be a security issue.

And he doesn't own stock in Tesla, so he isn't going to be buying one.

Re:Not EMP resistant

[Anonymous Coward]

It would have to be a very simple IC engine. Most new ones are very dependent on some pretty sophisticated electronics to improve performance, control emissions, manage braking systems, etc..

Re:Not EMP resistant

[Onuma]

I'm fairly certain the current Beast is not HEMP protected. It's solidly constructed, but it doesn't have copper knife-edge seals and a complete faraday cage around all of its electrical and electronic components.

Besides; if there are EMPs anywhere in the area of the principal, there's already a major breakdown of security and things are likely out of their control. Their escort vehicles, mobile phones, radios and other electronics are all useless by that point, not even counting the other unknown factors which would subsequently arise.

Re:Not EMP resistant

[riverat1]

Yeah, hemp doesn't make very good armor.

Re:Not EMP resistant

[Anonymous Coward]

You're just spewing propaganda. Before WWII hemp was used to create bullet-proof clothing. Little known fact--President Theodore Roosevelt was actually shot point blank in Cuba, but survived because his suit was made of hemp. (His horse was also shot, but the bullet hit the hemp bridle, only knocking out a tooth. This is the origin of the phrase, "never look Theodore's horse in the mouth". But the horse smoked hemp for several years and the tooth grew back.)

But the government didn't like the idea of citizens walking around nearly impervious to government force. This is one of many reasons Director Hoover helped push through anti-marijuana legislation.

Hemp is also 30x more efficient than natural gas at producing electrical power. And--fact!--the reason cancer deaths have been going up is because, before WWII, marijuana was the most prescribed cancer medication.

You SHEEPLE need to open your eyes!

Re:Not EMP resistant

[Anonymous Coward]

If there was the right, wrong time of solar storm, then el heffe might be getting an unintended suntan while waiting for combustion engine vehicles.

If a solar storm knocks out your vehicle, maybe you shouldn't have looped miles of wire around that car and then connected it to a sensitive chip. For those with normal vehicles with wiring limited to about the length of the car, solar storms and geomagnetism is not going to be an issue, being too slow time scale to induce much voltage in such small circuits.

Re:Not EMP resistant

[O('_')O_Bush]

"I'm fairly certain the current Beast is not HEMP protected. It's solidly constructed, but it doesn't have copper knife-edge seals and a complete faraday cage around all of its electrical and electronic components."

No, it's a diesel. Always has been.

Doesn't need to protect electronics to keep power going to the wheels. Unlike an electric. And really, that is the only system that matters when push comes to shove. Everything else is mechanical or accessory.

Re:Not EMP resistant

[geekoid]

EMP has little to know impact on vehicles.

http://www.empcommission.org/d...

Stop, and I repeat STOP! getting you information form survivalist shows and movies. It's almost always wrong.

Re:Not EMP resistant

[EngineeringStudent]

Did you read your own article? Try page 113 where it says:
"An EMP attack will certainly, immediately disable a portion of the 130 million cars and 90 million trucks in operation in the United States. Vehicles disabled while operating on the road can be expected to cause accidents. With modern traffic patterns, even a small number of disabled vehicles or accidents can cause debilitating traffic jams."

What about page 115 with "The ultimate result of EMP expoure could be triggered crashes that damage many more vehicles than are damaged by eMP, the consequent loss of life, and multiple injuries.

EMP has little to know impact on vehicles.

http://www.empcommission.org/d...

Stop, and I repeat STOP! getting you information form survivalist shows and movies. It's almost always wrong.

Re:Not EMP resistant

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop and I repeat STOP posting idiotic drivel on Slashdot.

Also, get your spelling and grammar sorted out. Your argument falls flat on its ass when you can't even master "no" versus "know".

Re:Not EMP resistant

[riverat1]

Whoever modded that Offtopic didn't read it very carefully, or at least should have modded me Offtopic too.

Re:Not EMP resistant

[Anonymous Coward]

You think a modern diesel doesn't need electronics for the engine to work? Hahahaha!

Re:Not EMP resistant

[Meyaht]

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/wa...

No

[Anonymous Coward]

A Tesla will not be the presidential vehicle, that would be too much of an endorsement for Tesla at the expense of GM. In addition new vehicle may have electrical backups, but I very much doubt that it would be the only form of power. In the event of an attack on the president it would be far more dangerous to have a cable attached to an additional vehicle than to simply grab a gascan and dump it, possibly while inside the vehicle.

Re:So what if the "presidential whatever" is whate

[Anonymous Coward]

But what if the president was a space alien? Then we'd have an alien in an alien!
I don't even know what is right anymore.

Fanboi much?

[msobkow]

Everyone wants to provide the presidential vehicles. Does Tesla provide as many jobs as GM?

The votes those employees provide are probably the most important factor when deciding who gets to provide the presidential ride.

Re:Fanboi much?

[lucm]

Everyone wants to provide the presidential vehicles. Does Tesla provide as many jobs as GM?

The votes those employees provide are probably the most important factor when deciding who gets to provide the presidential ride.

How many members of the electoral college actually work in car factories? And for that matter, how many GM plants are located in states that are likely to switch side because they lose this symbolic business?

After the healthcare.gov fiasco, the Obama administration should learn from their mistake, stop pouring money in legacy businesses and embrace the brave new world. This means Tesla: a technology that does not require to bomb arab countries to keep oil prices low and that does not open the door to polluting the beautiful gulf of Mexico.

Re:Fanboi much?

[geekoid]

healtchcare.gov was no worse then any other website as complex as it.. oh wait, there has never been a launch of anything the complex on the web.

Tesla can't do the job.

Re:Fanboi much?

[lucm]

healtchcare.gov was no worse then any other website as complex as it.. oh wait, there has never been a launch of anything the complex on the web.

Clearly you have no idea how complex the world of airplane tickets and hotel bookings can be. Just like in health care there are a few big networks (SABRE, Apollo) and a few spinoffs (Galileo, Shares), none of which is compatible with the others, plus there are plenty of small providers who do things in their own way. Yet companies like Kayak or Orbitz managed to build decent platforms dealing with this chaotic industry without pouring billions of dollars in a half-baked implementation.

There are systems like Morningstar who manage to keep track of data provided by various incompatible and antiquated financial services systems. There are online home/life insurance quotes providers. There is Equifax that does a decent job of merging nightmarish data sources.

I could go on and keep talking about websites that are more complex than a simple healthcare marketplace, but one thing I know is that with Obamaniacs nothing even remotely linked to His Administration will ever be considered less than perfect, be it a botched healthcare program or spying on American citizens and getting caught by a bunch of army transvestites and Autralian rapists.

Re:Fanboi much?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why are you always so sure of yourself when most of what you type is illiterate rubbish easily smacked down by others?

Re:Fanboi much?

[Anonymous Coward]

Tesla provide as many jobs as GM?

Hmmm, seeing how the car makers are replacing humans with automated robots, your question was amusing, and off putting. Just as the goober who asked a brainless question without thinking, how the presidential car is "specially" made to protect the President.

There is a reason for the nickname 'The Beast'. It is more then likely armor plated, and of course the windows are bullet resistant. The Tesla is built to be lightweight, thus needing less power to get it going, that extends the batteries charge. You add all of the plating, and windows to a Tesla, and you begin to see the problem.

The important question is

[RevWaldo]

Would you depend on this vehicle if your life was at stake. Tesla can certainly bring it, but the internal combustion engine has over a century of demonstrated reliability.

.

Re:The important question is

[mojo-raisin]

Yeah. Electric motors have no track record.

{sarc}

Re: The important question is

[Scowler]

Reliable? I've had two regular cars in the last decade that died simply because they over-heated in normal urban driving, leading to engine block failures. And that's no weird anecdote, as that is still a common cause of auto EOL in general.

Re:The important question is

[Garble Snarky]

What you mean to say is, GM has a very long track record, while Tesla does not.

Re:The important question is

[ericloewe]

GM sure does have a track record, and that's exactly why I'd trust Tesla any day.

Re:The important question is

[tlhIngan]

Would you depend on this vehicle if your life was at stake. Tesla can certainly bring it, but the internal combustion engine has over a century of demonstrated reliability.

As do electric motors. I mean, the first cars were electric (or steam!) - the ICE didn't come about until much later.

The big problem with Tesla is the dealers. The reason Tesla sells directly is because no dealer wants to sell a Tesla. It's just like Nissan and the Leaf. Dealerships don't make much money on car sales - sometimes as little as a couple of hundred bucks profit. The real profit's in the dealer service because despite the number of independent garages, there's still a large number of people who bring their cars back for servicing to the dealer. (It doesn't help that the dealer often incentivizes it by offering loaners, pickup/dropoff services, free car washes and other value-adds).

An EV like a Tesla or a Leaf requires practically no servicing. They recommend a yearly look-over and inspection just to make sure things are on the up-and-up, but you can skip those.

That's why dealers are fighting against Tesla - not because of direct sales, but because EVs are bad for their business. They just cost less to maintain, have less to go wrong and are just simpler on the inside.

It's like computing going from vacuum tubes to transistors.

Re: The important question is

[Anonymous Coward]

What kind of temperature (outside air temperature) were you driving in? What vehicles?

Re: The important question is

[FuegoFuerte]

Yep, it's pretty common... they do that when you don't maintain them properly, which is also pretty common. There's a wonderful thing called preventative maintenance, which is a pain in the ass but means your car isn't likely to spontaneously break down on the side of the road. It's why my car with just shy of 200k miles hasn't let me down, and why the one before that made it to 320k, only letting me down once when the timing belt snapped - I hadn't checked the proper interval on that car, and accidentally took it to double that. Fortunately it was a non-interference engine, so I changed the belt and kept going.

You can bet the Beast won't overheat in traffic though, because it's no doubt meticulously maintained.

Re: The important question is

[Anonymous Coward]

The "Check oil" light is not there as a general public service announcement.

Re: The important question is

[captbob2002]

Pretty common if you were driving a 1971 Vega with its unsleeved aluminum block and cast iron head and ran with it low on oil and low on coolant as so many of them did back in the day.

These days cars require so little maintenance that many folks don't even bother with the tasks they should perform. Change the timing belt? Why? the car still runs.

Re:The important question is

[Bodero]

You couldn't be more wrong.

Dealers would love to sell Teslas, but Musk isn't allowing that - sticking to a factory-only model. If you were right, dealers would surely wish to sell Teslas in Texas, where it's illegal to go direct to the consumer, right? They wouldn't be competing directly with the factory there.

Dealers do make money in vehicle sales. Used moreso than new, but they absolutely make money on vehicle sales. The pre-2008 days of $5000 rebates and prices below invoice (and holdback) are no longer. No, it's not a fortune, but they do. And any good dealer will be making another thousand-plus in the finance office after the sale.

Their service department is important, and contributes to a metric known as "fixed absorption" - the percentage of profit the service and parts operation contributes as a portion of the total operating expenses of the dealership. If a dealership operates at 100% fixed absorption, that means their service and parts department completely pay all of the dealership's monthly expenses, and any profit made in new sales, used sales, F&I, or if the dealership has one, the body shop is pure profit.

You really think that a dealership doesn't want a new product to sell, one that will get brand new customers walking through their doors each month? BMWs, for example, already only require one service per year - so the trend towards less service is already occurring.

Re: The important question is

[Bob the Super Hamste]

Really, this sounds more like user error. I haven't had a vehicle overheat ever and yet I have driven probably about 300,000 miles in my life all in vehicles that initially had at least 80,000 miles on them when I purchased them. The total mileage on all vehicles I have ever owned is well over a million if not closer to 1.5 million with the average mileage when I sent them off to the scrap yard probably around 250,000 miles. The only strangeness I have ever had with the cooling system was when a temp sensor flaked out and would provide basically random readings that would jump around all over the place, and the time when the thermostat got stuck open on one vehicle.

This sounds more like you didn't take care of your stuff and then it took a shit on you. Sadly that is fairly common amongst most people. Why should they have to change belts, hoses, fluids, spark plugs, filters, the car still runs and there isn't a light on so they think they are good to go. I had a discussion like this with my step father who said he only goes and gets the oil changed on vehicles when the light comes on. The light he was referring to was the red idiot light on the dash telling you your oil pressure has dropped too low either because it cant pump the thick crud or it isn't sucking up enough oil to maintain pressure.

Re:The important question is

[Anonymous Coward]

Say no to GM cars. Buy organically grown electric cars instead.

Re: The important question is

[Anonymous Coward]

You are supposed to change your oil every so often, you know.

Re:The important question is

[jwhitener]

but the internal combustion engine has over a century of demonstrated reliability. .

So? The electric motor was invented in 1832 and has been powering various machinery reliably ever since.

Lack of range

[Lluc]

The lack of range would be a huge security hazard. It will have poor range to begin with when you consider the lack of aerodynamics and weight of the armor. You can't beat the energy storage capacity of petroleum.

Re:Lack of range

[mojo-raisin]

Yeah. I see the POTUS driving over 300 miles in a limo every week.

{sarc}

Marine One is for anything outside of a city. Jeez. Are we even half-awake here commenters?

Re:Lack of range

[Garble Snarky]

You are overlooking the fact that presidential vehicles are extremely over-designed.

Re:Lack of range

[Anonymous Coward]

The OP is obviously not talking about everyday use. Are you even half awake here?

Re:Lack of range

[O('_')O_Bush]

" I see the POTUS driving over 300 miles in a limo every week."

The Presidential Limo isn't designed for every week. Its primary design goal is to protect the President, which the primary mode of doing so is moving the President as far away from danger as fast as possible (electric cars can only do one of those).

That means not transferring to Marine One or Airforce One. That means way more power usage than current low-density battery technology can provide. That means being able to work in the many scenarios where electrical systems fail.

Re:Lack of range

[jklovanc]

The Beast is used to transport the President from where Marine One can land to where the president needs to be. It also needs to go from where the C-17 can land to where Marine 1 can drop off the president. Those miles can add up. For international visits Marine One may not even be available.

Re:Lack of range

[FlyingGuy]

Uhmmm Marine One ( actually at least two identical marine one's ) is packed up in a huge transport plane just like the limo.

Re:Lack of range

[Anonymous Coward]

Just replace the battery with a small nuclear cell. Now you can drive from Tampa to anchorage and then to Mexico city with nary a fuel stop.

Re:Lack of range

[jklovanc]

There are still many places where Marine One can not go.

Re:Lack of range

[Anonymous Coward]

The Presidential Limo isn't designed for every week. Its primary design goal is to protect the President, which the primary mode of doing so is moving the President as far away from danger as fast as possible (electric cars can only do one of those).

And a gas engine can only do the other.

That means not transferring to Marine One or Airforce One. That means way more power usage than current low-density battery technology can provide. That means being able to work in the many scenarios where electrical systems fail.

Interestingly it also means being able to work in the many scenarios where gas engines fail.

Electric engines have issues that gas engines doesn't have. Gas engines have issues that electric engines doesn't have. The flaws of one of them isn't an argument for not switching, you have to look at both.
Electric engines have the benefit of being possible to seal. This means that an EV could be made in a way so that it can cross flooded roads or pass through areas exposed to chemical weapons that makes the air unsuitable to support combustion.

There is a reason electric engines are used in extreme conditions.

Re:Lack of range

[Anonymous Coward]

yep, electrical vehicles no matter what tesla says are simply not truly practical over any reasonable distance. Hell in my commute(+ potential ancillary driving) they're not reasonable at all, and worse if it's your only vehicle and whoops you forget to plug it in to charge you're screwed as it's not like you can pull into the handy gas station for a quick recharge(c. 5m).

Adding to this general uselessness are their size, they have limited passenger and cargo capacity.

Now I could see a hybrid like the volt being a possibility, but not a pure electric ATM(and probably never). I have much more hope for fuel cells(still) in the future, or something that can generate power from a quickly replaceable fuel source.

I smell a guerrilla marketeer at work here, likely as tesla's behest.

Armor

[sugar and acid]

The Presidents limo is in a heavily disguised armour. It weighs multiple tonnes.

An electric design just can't make the range or extended get away speed required with the protection needed.

Of course the one true maker of presidential limousines is ford....

Re:Armor

[mojo-raisin]

The battery is actually double platted with metal that is quite protective.

There is no car with a better safety score than the Model S. The Model X could be far superior with minor modes compared to any Caddy.

Re:Armor

[drama]

I don't believe the comment refers to the safety of the battery as obviously it'd have to be equally protected as the rest of the vehicle to protect the president.

"The Beast" is HEAVY. It has to be able to drive quite a distance to affect an escape. As much as I'd love a Tesla for The Beast as a nod away from fossil fuels, it likely wouldn't be able to handle the sheer power required to meet the demands of being called "The Beast". It wouldn't be practical not to use a combustion engine.

Re:Armor

[gsnedders]

The constant, massive, torque from idle would surely be massively useful for a vehicle weighing multiple tons and needing quick acceleration?

Re:Armor

[Twinbee]

Sheer power? I think you'll find the Model S is superior to an ICE in this respect. Batteries have come of age, and the acceleration, especially at low speeds, crushes all or nearly all ICE vehicles.

Re:Armor

[T.E.D.]

I dunno...

For one thing, a bog standard Tesla already has pretty good protection. The NTSA actually had to make up new tests to find any kind of limits to the thing. For example, when they tried doing standard crashes into poles, it kept breaking their poles. They flat out could not get the thing to roll over. You'd think with that as a standard to start from, they could achieve some pretty great things if given the extra custom design latitude and budget a POTUS limo vendor is typically given.

For another, with the extra space under a stretch limo, as the article points out they ought to be able to pack enough extra battery to make up for the extra weight.

For another, electric cars already have much more power at lower revs than gasoline cars. I'd think that would be a pretty attractive feature for people worried about someone trying to block off their vehicle in an ambush.

Re:Armor

[multimediavt]

The Presidents limo is in a heavily disguised armour. It weighs multiple tonnes.

An electric design just can't make the range or extended get away speed required with the protection needed.

Of course the one true maker of presidential limousines is ford....

Range is more the issue, I would think given the weight of the vehicle sans any drivetrain components. How far away from a secure location would they go before switching to air transport (Marine One)? A gas or Diesel fuel is going to give you critical units of energy per gram of mass than batteries. Even if they use super-secret, only installed in the new Beast and some stealth drone battery I don't see a good 90% of 14,000 lbs going very far. You would get a hell of a recharge from breaking that thing to a stop, though. I guess it all depends on what the range and acceleration specs are for the limo. Probably classified.

Re:Armor

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the presidential limo needs more than crash test safety ratings.

The presidential limo is not a caddy, it just has a badge thrown on it.

Re:Armor

[Strudelkugel]

Actually electric motors power the biggest machines I can think of, such as draglines, railroad locomotives and ships. The Presidential limo is not designed for a high speed getaway, it is really an armored personnel carrier with a nice paint job. It also doesn't have to go very far. The only time a limo had to go very "fast" was after an assassination attempt, but remember that it has a police escort that will clear all other traffic ahead of it. In JFK's case, speed would have been irrelevant, and in Reagan's case, they still had to drive through Washington D.C. streets which were more of a speed limitation than the limo itself. In addition, there is always an ambulance following the motorcade, so the POTUS would be transferred to it for a medical emergency. (This didn't happen for Reagan since he was shot right next to the limo. His Secret Service agent pushed him in after noticing blood and made the decision to go to the ER immediately.)

Four independent electric motors might actually give the limo more mobility than a single ICE, since all four would have to be knocked out to immobilize the car. They would also be lighter than the ICE. As for power, they could always charge up an electric limo using the APU on board AF1, or just carry additional battery packs. Another option would be to put a turbine generator in the car if extra range were needed, but I seriously doubt the POTUS will ever take a road trip in the limo. Truman might have done it for fun since he liked driving so much, but that was a different time.

Re:Armor

[Anonymous Coward]

The model S has 416 horsepower like a ton of riceburners driven by 17 years olds down the strip on a Friday night. The base 2013 model has 0-60 and quarter mile times that put it in line with a Subaru WRX. The "performance" model is slightly better at about 3 times the price. Somehow I'm not drooling over this.
 
Please stop acting like the Tesla is the second coming of christ. It's neat, it's the best EV out there for public consumption if you can look past the price but it's not the answer to every question that comes on four wheels and fanbois like you cawing on about how they're better than anything else ever on the roads is doing a disservice to the strengths of the car and its potential.

Re:Armor

[rahvin112]

It's actually so heavy IIRC it's engine is a 8 cylinder diesel engine that's typically used in the largest commercial pick up trucks (think 1 ton dualies) with more than 7 liters of displacement and a fuel efficiency of 8MPG. The car has sealed air tight compartments, oxygen supplies, armor thick enough to stop armor piercing 50 caliber rounds, a blood bank in the trunk and numerous other features to prevent attacks on the president including physical, chemical and biological attacks.

The possibility of the presidential limo/tank being a Tesla are insignificant. It needs a big fucking engine. As others have noted it's a tank disguised to look like a Limo.

Re:Armor

[Anonymous Coward]

The Presidents limo is in a heavily disguised armour. It weighs multiple tonnes.

Why? Isn't this a democracy?

Re:Armor

[Anonymous Coward]

The Presidents limo is in a heavily disguised armour. It weighs multiple tonnes.

8 inch thick armor and 20,000 lbs (10 tons) vehicle weight.

Re:Armor

[Anonymous Coward]

so how many tons can it pull

yea exactly the problem, the presidential car is INCHES THICK OF ARMOR and still performs better than a standard big block

Re:Armor

[Anonymous Coward]

I also wonder how those Teslas would fair under an EMP.

Re:Armor

[FatLittleMonkey]

Tesla gets its acceleration from briefly over-volting the motor. That's why it's only available during acceleration. That's also why the top speed is much lower than an equivalent-acceleration ICE sedan. Whereas constant power (not just acceleration up to speed) is what is required to drag those ridiculous armoured limos around.

You're competing with a 7lt diesel light-truck engine.

Re:Armor

[serviscope_minor]

"The Beast" is HEAVY. It has to be able to drive quite a distance to affect an escape. As much as I'd love a Tesla for The Beast as a nod away from fossil fuels, it likely wouldn't be able to handle the sheer power required to meet the demands of being called "The Beast". It wouldn't be practical not to use a combustion engine.

You seem to have misunderstood the relative merits and properties of electric versus ICE. In terms of specific power, electric motors are clear winners, even including the batteries. For acceleration, they're clear winners since they produce maximum torque at zero speed.

This is why a lot of super-heavy vehicles use electric drivetrains.

The primary advantage of an ICE is not power but energy: when coupled with a local energy source, the specific energy of the complete package is much higher than for an electric motor/battery combo.

Re:Armor

[Anonymous Coward]

if(president.politicalParty == "Republican") {
    limoFactory.createLimo("ford",reason="anti union policies");
}
else if (president.politicalParty=="Democrat") {
    limoFactory.createLimo("generalmotors",reason="democrats are in the pocket of afl-cio");
}
else {
      throw new PresidentNotEntrenchedInDuopolisticHegemonyException(new org.politics.politicalmethods.defameInMassMediaBeforeElection);
}

Unlikely

[Anonymous Coward]

For the Presidential Limo, concerns such as proven technology, speed of fuelling, and total range would be considered tantamount.

The Presidential Limo is not only chosen for actual use, but for a wide array of unlikely scenarios involving the safety of the President.

"The Beast" is armored, weighs about 7 tons,

[Kevoco]

and is built on a GM truck frame.
I have a hard time imagining this level of protection working for an electric vehicle.

Re: "The Beast" is armored, weighs about 7 tons,

[Kremmy]

Pure electric, I'm inclined to agree to an extent, but due solely to the low spread of Tesla supercharger stations. That part is already improving. Now, a diesel-electric hybrid system, that's something I would expect to be a good fit. Give us a diesel generator that's designed to give us ample power while sipping the fuel at a steady rate. We're at the point where (power source) (power to electricity transformer) (electric motor) provides us the opportunity to make it so it Doesn't Matter what fuel we're using to generate the power, and it's silly not to be doing it.

Re: "The Beast" is armored, weighs about 7 tons,

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, because I seen Obama at the BP station the other day picking up a bag of chips and a Coke while his driver was fueling the car...

is it that far fetched to think... Tesla?

[flaming error]

Yeah, I think Teslas are designed to be light and aerodynamic. "The Beast" is neither.

Re:is it that far fetched to think... Tesla?

[cbhacking]

They aren't actually very light. Between the battery cells and the armor plate protecting them, the Model S weighs over two tons (4647 lb, or 2108 kilo). That said, the Beast weighs a few times as much, due to being armored on all sides (instead of just the underneath). With that said, they do save weight elsewhere when possible (aluminum for the body except the structural/safety parts, for example).

You *could* make an electric Beast, but it would have relatively short range hauling that much armor around.

Re:is it that far fetched to think... Tesla?

[Anonymous Coward]

A Tesla S is nearly 4,647 lbs. That's more than my Mercedes GLK350.

A Tesla S is closer to an F-150 pickup in terms of curb weight.

Re:is it that far fetched to think... Tesla?

[Anonymous Coward]

That means the entire car is lighter than 100 square feet of the armor that is likely on The Beast.
 
You really need to get a clue.

Getting stuck

[Anonymous Coward]

It didn't high center, it was a Bollard that popped up. Watch the video again, it can be seen. If it high centered it wouldn't have stopped so suddenly. Seems like someone has a lot of explaining to do if that's all it takes to stop the damn thing in it's tracks.

What if we put the petrol tank underneath the Pres

[Anonymous Coward]

What could possibly go wrong?

Tesla is the Apple Computer of cars: championed by a loud, overpaid minority of circle-jerkers.

Re:What If Slashdot Went One Day Without 10 Positi

[Anonymous Coward]

Obvious troll is obvious.

What if

[Anonymous Coward]

It was a monster truck?
Makes far more sense than a Tesla. I mean, being so far off the ground makes it harder to IED. Everyone knows Teslas burst into flames when you look at the battery pack crossly.

Why is this under YRO and not idle, where garbage belongs?

The Ultimate Electric Car

[Kevin Fishburne]

How small can they make nuclear reactors these days? Tesla could make the President's new "Beast" something like the Tumbler from the new Batman movies, with an extra 1000 HP thrown in for good measure.

Re:The Ultimate Electric Car

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not the size of the reactor.

It's the amount of shielding.

Re:The Ultimate Electric Car

[RivenAleem]

Scientists have a year to build a Mr Fusion.

Re:The Ultimate Electric Car

[Anonymous Coward]

There was a nuclear powered car in the 70's that could drive for 10 years without refueling. Big Oil made sure to whip the public into a panic over safety even though the reactor design was so secure they could drop it from the height of the empire state building, in a vacuum (so no wind resistance) and it wouldn't leak any detectable radiation. The POTUS might be able to pull it off though if he wanted to.

Re:The Ultimate Electric Car

[Kevin Fishburne]

Along that line of thought, they actually have all the time in the world. Unless they accidentally bang their mother, of course, which changes everything.

Re:The Ultimate Electric Car

[Anonymous Coward]

Or a simple diesel-electric-generator. Like modern diesel trains. Trains use electric engines for the torq. The beast is about as heavy as a train, seems like a nice fit.

Re:The Ultimate Electric Car

[Anonymous Coward]

Reactors can be pretty small. The shielding, on the other hand.... ;-)

Re:The Ultimate Electric Car

[Anonymous Coward]

Not even close. Posts above put the beast at 10 tons.
An empty box car weighs 30 tons.
Locomotives only suitable for light switching within an industry could potentially weigh as little as 50 tons.

Here are some approximate weights from the models I mostly interract with at work.
4 axle switch engines: 125 tons (gp15).
6 axle switch engines: 190 tons (sd40).
Modern road power: 205 tons (sd70ace).

Re:The Ultimate Electric Car

[RivenAleem]

Fuck, I read that as "accidentally bang YOUR mother" which nearly made me spit out my coffee.

A real alternative

[prefec2]

Just imaging the President on a presidential bike. True, nowadays he would most likely be shot by some idiot for stupid reasons or by a terrorist loaded with a lot of hate. However, future might be just so if we could learn to tolerate each other. I know, this is not going to happen soon ;-)

Re:A real alternative

[ArcadeMan]

If the president drove around on a bike, he would be the target of terrorists on bikes

Re:A real alternative

[R3d M3rcury]

Just imaging the President on a presidential bike.

George Bush and Bill Clinton.

Okay, the Clinton one is a joke, but George Bush used to ride quite a bit.

Re:A real alternative

[Anonymous Coward]

Just imaging the President on a presidential bike

In the spirit of the original article, would it have to be a fixie?

Should work fine

[Anonymous Coward]

Washington DC has stable and abundant electricity from one of the oldest, dirtiest coal power stations in the US, so a Tesla should work great there.

Yay coal powered cars.

Check your history.

[Anonymous Coward]

Electric motors and cars are older than gasoline engines and cars.

More development dollars have gone into gas cars for several reasons.

1) oil was cheap and plentiful.
2) the same group of people owned the oil companies, car companies, and rubber plantations.
3) these people believe pollution is a social good, because they don't want air and water to be cost-free.

what if it ran on biodiesel

[Anonymous Coward]

Instead of electric car fantasies, what if it ran on biodiesel?
1) Biodiesel is more environmentally responsible than electric
2) It wouldn't just be a marketing stunt, but would provide real value
3) Maybe it would signal we could get back to actually solving our energy issues rather than pretending they're ok just because people on the coasts can't see the smokestacks

Re:what if it ran on biodiesel

[Tailhook]

There probably isn't a supply of bio-diesel in the capitol, so they'd have to chopper in the fuel. There is already an ample supply of Jet-A to fuel our hypothetical bio-diesel choppers due to the squadron of giant Marine One Sikorskys the president uses to fly to and from either of his 747s.

So yeah, a bio-diesel car could work among all those turbines, and it'll give the greentards another fine token to hang their hat on.

But since Washington D.C. already has an ample supply of electricity from its notoriously dirty 100+ year old coal burning power station, using a battery powered limo is probably the better choice. Then they can forgo the whole bio-diesel chopper supply thing and nothing says you love the "environment" quite like a genuine coal-powered car.

Re:what if it ran on biodiesel

[Anonymous Coward]

That plant has provided only steam for the last 60 years, and serves only the Capitol complex. Most of the boilers currently use gas (only 5% of fuel was coal in 2011), and they are currently installing natural-gas fired CHP.

Re:So what if the "presidential whatever" is whate

[nadszyszkownik]

Yo dawg! I heard you like aliens...

Charging solutions

[Cimexus]

While I have no doubt that you could build a fully electric vehicle that would meet the specs required for the President's limo, I think the biggest hurdle will be charging it. The Beast is one of the only vehicles in the world that drives in countries all over the world without being registered, or modified in accordance with the local market. I've seen the Beast myself here in Canberra, Australia a couple of times. It is kind of a novelty seeing a left-hand drive vehicle with US license plates cruising around on the 'wrong' side of the road in Australia. :)

But I digress. Countries all use different shaped plugs, different voltages etc. and the charging infrastructure in some places the president might visit is not always reliable. Yes you can ensure that US embassies and the presidential plane/other vehicles have the right systems in place. But you never know what might happen ... one day they might be stuck somewhere with insufficient range and no charging options. Gasoline OTOH, you can find almost anywhere, and can carry a spare supply of it quite easily compared to lugging around some kind of backup battery. I think for that reason it'll be a while before you see a vehicle built for this purpose be fully electric. Maybe a hybrid would work. But I think all-electric vehicles need to become more widespread globally and another decade or two of track record behind them before they would fit the bill for this need.

Re:Charging solutions

[DutchUncle]

Plugs and voltages can be dealt with, especially since US voltage is the *lower* standard (considering the most available as (nominally) 120 and 240). Infrastructure is more touchy, and more easily interfered with, something the Secret Service tries to avoid. Just as important is the charge time; even if you have a second vehicle following with an any-combustible-fuel generator, it takes too long to refuel. Much easier carrying that second vehicle's weight in gasoline.

Re:Charging solutions

[Urza9814]

even if you have a second vehicle following with an any-combustible-fuel generator, it takes too long to refuel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D...

More torque (probably pretty important with all that armor), more reliable, possibly even more fuel efficient...more expensive too, but I doubt they care too much for "The Beast".

Re:Charging solutions

[Anonymous Coward]

one day they might be stuck somewhere with insufficient range and no charging options.

The day the sun does not come up, we have bigger concerns than protecting the president.

Re:Charging solutions

[Anonymous Coward]

The secret service does not fill the limo up abroad at any gas station. Fuel is transported specifically for limo refueling.

You pegged it in one.

[Anonymous Coward]

You can't beat the energy storage capacity of petroleum.

This is the only insurmountable obstacle at this time. I could build pretty easily a heavier, safer limo using pure electric technology, but I can't build a battery with the refuel speed or energy density of gasoline. It just can't be done at this time.

Re:So what if the "presidential whatever" is whate

[whisper_jeff]

You obviously never collected comics. Geeks who did are fond of "what if?..." special issues because the exploration of the possibility of something weird is fun.

You remember what fun was like, right?

Don't worry - I'll get off your lawn now.

And what if there were an EMP?

[ducomputergeek]

Would the electric car still work? Could you easily find a place to charge up in that event? A car for the president has some different considerations than me in Suburbia who works from home 3 days a week and doesn't drive much. (For the record I'm a Chevy Volt owner)

It is not a car

[houghi]

It is a tank made look like a car. It reminds of of this hammer I bought where all I changed was the head and the handle.

slashvertisement

[Anonymous Coward]

enough with the nonsense slashvertisement about:
tesla, calling elon musk tony stark of iron man (http://slashdot.org/topic/cloud/musks-new-hologram-project-invites-iron-man-comparisons/ and elsewhere)...
google is great how could the brilliant (the posters words) people there give us $.02 per GB/Yr cloud storage (http://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/03/13/1834208/1gb-of-google-drive-storage-now-costs-only-002-per-month)...
and all the other meaningless marketing, PR free ads here pathetically dressed up as organic grass roots feelings

Wouldn't happen

[Anonymous Coward]

The possibility of the battery packs exploding or catching fire from a jarring impact would most likely derail the project.

It's GM?

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess they had to go with GM since they ended up owning a chunk. I thought they were Lincolns. Maybe they were before this one. Having ridden in Caddies and Lincolns, I must say the Lincoln has a solid feel the GM product just can't match. It's like the Earth is unstable and then when you step into the Lincoln you're on solid ground. A teensy tiny little part of me feels sorry the prez has to ride around in a crap GM car.

Re:It's GM?

[compro01]

The Presidential limo has been a (completely custom) Cadillac since Clinton took office. Bush 1 was the last president who used a Lincoln, which was originally Reagan's, who used 3 different cars (2 Lincolns and a Cadillac).

EMP would kill ICE cars as well

[rsborg]

Would the electric car still work? Could you easily find a place to charge up in that event? A car for the president has some different considerations than me in Suburbia who works from home 3 days a week and doesn't drive much. (For the record I'm a Chevy Volt owner)

I drove 5-ton dump trucks in the military, most of systems were redundant including air-pressure brakes and the like. Your Honda, unless it's 30+ years old, will not survive the EMP either.

Re:EMP would kill ICE cars as well

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for the insightful post, faggot cunt.
 
dadinportland@yahoo.com

Re:EMP would kill ICE cars as well

[Anonymous Coward]

Please red up on technical shit before sounding like an idiot.

An excellent suggestion you would do well to apply to yourself.

Re:EMP would kill ICE cars as well

[Anonymous Coward]

Posting as AC because the filter at work hates /.

The government studied EMP and out of 37 models of vehicles tested only a few needed to be repaired, most only needed to be restarted. Vehicles that were off at the time all restarted perfectly.

http://www.survivalblog.com/2010/08/real_world_emp_effects_on_moto.html

Tekfactory

Educated guess

[cyberzephyr]

I feel the reason that the car will not be electric is that most Military vehicles can run on just about any fossil fuel available in case of emergencies or low fuel.

Re:Educated guess

[compro01]

The Presidential limo isn't military. It is diesel though (Duramax 6.6L V8, same engine as a Chevrolet Kodiak), so you'd just fill it with JP8.

beta IN CNAME idle.slashdot.org.

[Anonymous Coward]

because see subject

Tesla

[sharknado]

I wonder if Elon Musk would donate a Tesla as the presidential car. One the one hand, it could be great advertising. On the other hand, the thing might catch fire on the highway.

Can't kill him with bullets?

[dohzer]

Can't kill him with bullets? Kill him with fire instead!

Regenerative might be the winner

[Overzeetop]

I was going to post that the range would be teh suck, and disqualify a tesla, but a stretch version with 2-3x the batteries, and high-performance regenerative breaking might actually make it a better choice. Yes, it takes a shitload of energy to get the 10 ton vehicle moving, but this is mostly an in town car - lots of stop and go. You get a percentage of that kinetic energy back every time you brake. Even with an enhanced fuel tank of 30+ gallons, the Caddy probably doesn't have even a 200 mile range in town (best guess is that it gets 8mpg in the best scenario, on Diesel). An electric vehicle would be more limited by aerodynamics and heat losses, so it might actually be range-competitive except at highway cruising speeds.

Now, there still may be a scenario (extended evacuation distance) which the batteries just couldn't handle, but for normal to moderately-extreme conditions a battery pack car very well could out-perform the ICE version.

Re:Regenerative might be the winner

[R3d M3rcury]

Yes, it takes a shitload of energy to get the 10 ton vehicle moving, but this is mostly an in town car - lots of stop and go.

You've never had The President visit where you live, I assume. The President Does Not Sit In Traffic. The "stop and go" is mostly after miles of driving.

Re:Regenerative might be the winner

[Nethead]

Not much stop and go in a motorcade.

Re:Regenerative might be the winner

[Teancum]

Yes, it takes a shitload of energy to get the 10 ton vehicle moving, but this is mostly an in town car - lots of stop and go.

You've never had The President visit where you live, I assume. The President Does Not Sit In Traffic. The "stop and go" is mostly after miles of driving.

That is something I think is just plain wrong. In spite of being "The President", POTUS should still be bound to local laws of safety and order, like ordinary traffic laws. Yes, I understand the "national security implications" of having the presidential motorcade sitting at a stop light at a random intersection where I suppose a would-be assassin would take a random pot shot at the guy, but that speaks more to how that motorcade shouldn't be so obvious when it is passing through either.

This imperial bullshit really should end. The President isn't a king, and certainly shouldn't be treated like one.

Re:Regenerative might be the winner

[bill_mcgonigle]

I suppose a would-be assassin would take a random pot shot at the guy, but that speaks more to how that motorcade shouldn't be so obvious when it is passing through either.

Perhaps it speaks more to being the head of an organization that is so reviled. Jefferson made note of the huge lines of people who would come to his office to complain about this or that. He only detested the ones who came seeking political appointments. I never read about anybody taking so much as a swing at him in his office.

Re:Regenerative might be the winner

[FuegoFuerte]

A lot of towns/cities will stop traffic for things like very large pre-organized motorcycle rides, convoys, funeral processions, and the like. Just because you're not as special as the president doesn't mean he's being treated quite like a king. Stop and Go traffic is for individuals, while police escorts and blocked traffic are for large convoys, and the POTUS happens to travel in a large convoy.

Re:Regenerative might be the winner

[judoguy]

Years ago, Gerald Ford came to my town to make a speech of some sort. The local paper told when and where he'd be landing. It was a large grass area in a local park. My friends and I showed up for the heck of it. Marine One landed, POTUS got out, waved, got in the limo and drove off. No big deal. Didn't close the roads for miles, didn't keep us very far back, didn't have squads of machine gun toting military around. Hardly any noticeable security.

Yes, I remember RR getting shot, saw it on TV. But my point is that we now have an Imperial Presidency. Al Gore came to Minneapolis during the Clinton era. Shut down every road he might even consider traveling on. Screwed up the airport. Rode around like Caesar. The bastards now are so full of themselves that they don't even pretend anymore.

Sure, security is needed to POTUS, but damn, it's all gotten blown out of proportion.

Re:Regenerative might be the winner

[bill_mcgonigle]

The bastards now are so full of themselves that they don't even pretend anymore.

Well, that is part of it - to show you what's there place and your place. Like at the airport, nobody expects to find a bomb in the keester of a midwest sales manager, but he's gonna get the anal probe so that he knows just who's in charge. It's worse than most people would treat a dog, really.

Re:Regenerative might be the winner

[Teancum]

Fine, if they stop traffic for mere mortals like myself on special occasions, I'm fine with it too. Just don't go passing special laws just for these folks.

I had a friend of mine who was a local campaign manager for a presidential candidate (not even the President himself, just a major candidate for one of the two big parties). They met with the Secret Service and got to ignore every single traffic sign and signal even though the candidate wasn't even in the car. There wasn't any real emergency, no need to get to a hospital or anything. They just simply ignored local laws of any kind and showed no consideration for stuff like speed limits and such.

I simply disagree that this is something that should happen at all. It shows complete disregard to others who do have important things to do in their lives too, and the imperial king formerly known as The President does not have any special distinction either.

The governor of my state stops at all traffic lights and obeys the speed limit when driving in his limo. I certainly don't see why The President deserves any more special consideration. The local football teams get better treatment, and that is only because the police want to both protect the players from the public and the public from the football players. Besides, the motorcade for the football teams is made up of not just players but also the parents and a couple miles worth of traffic from fans following the procession.

Good As US Economy

[iinventstuff]

The Presidential limo is "too big to fail" and would need continual infusions [of power] just to keep going...

I think it would be a bad idea for Tesla

[Voyager529]

Now what DOES work well for Tesla is the blank check they'll get for making it. However, it will end up having a whole lot of redesign involved. Even if you tripled the battery pack's size, is it a linear gain for a vehicle that's somewhere around triple the weight of their existing models? Methinks not. The "in-flight refueling" truck situation has its own can of worms - you'd need a mobile charging unit capable of giving it enough juice to justify the trip in just a few minutes...I'm pretty sure that despite thirty years of work regarding power generation, we're still stuck with bolts of lightning and plutonium from Libyan nationalists to generate 1.21 gigawatts...neither of which are exactly 'portable', and all of THEM will have to be powered with something, so either you're simply offshoring the oil combustion, or "it's turtles all the way down".

Meanwhile, you'd need not just one of these things, but a dozen - remember that Tesla would have to build the decoy units, too...which means you'd also need a dozen refueling trucks. If you ditch all of that, then you'll have a fairly short range you'll be able to go, which will defeat most of the purpose of getting the limo replaced.

And after all of that...exactly what does that net Tesla? Are they looking to make alternatives to the Ford F150 or similar (justifying the work done on making a Tesla engine that can move that kind of weight)? Would it be a foot-in-door to get military contracts (justifying the R&D on an armored Tesla)? Could the charge-en-route tech be adapted for AAA tow trucks? ...Or would Uncle Sam simply pay for all the R&D because the tech needed for this project to work is so vastly different than Tesla's existing designs that monetizing them independently of the limo contract will prove impractical?

American made?

[PPH]

Buy a Mercedes off the Alabama production line.

Oh, you meant corporate citizenship? F*ck the workers. Buy a GM from a Mexican line.

Re:American made?

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly! It's amazing how many people still don't get this! Heck, even my grandpa who, for all his life, would only buy "american" Ford, GM or Chrysler, finally a few years ago bought a Toyota.

The Toyota built in Kentucky or the Mercedes built in Alabama is AT LEAST as "American" as that Ford built in Mexico.

What If the Next Presidential Limo Was a Yugo?

[NikeHerc]

It would be more fitting, cheaper, and in line with the common man.

Also Airplanes

[Anonymous Coward]

Why don't those windows open?

The flip side.. Can GM build it?

[Pontiac]

The 2009 Limo was built on the Medium duty Kodiac truck chassis.
GM shut down the Medium truck division in 2009.

What would they build it on?

At 7 tons it's more than even the 3500 series truck is rated for.

Re:The flip side.. Can GM build it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Navistar International still makes truck frames.

Durastar for example.

Re:So what if the "presidential whatever" is whate

[Etherwalk]

Does it make any practical difference? Is there any point to this post?

Yes. Practically the poster and various commentators enjoy the hypothetical. In addition, if there were actually a chance of this happening, it would make a practical difference in the security status of the president of the United States.

Unicorns ruling the universe...

[dstyle5]

I hope my just submitted "what if" about unicorns ruling the universe will make the front page as well. Given what they are posting these days I think I have a 50/50 chance of making it.

Re:Unicorns ruling the universe...

[uCallHimDrJ0NES]

I'm in.

Re: Unicorns ruling the universe...

[kj_in_ottawa]

You know I think they have a point....

Re:Unicorns ruling the universe...

[stoploss]

I hope my just submitted "what if" about unicorns ruling the universe will make the front page as well. Given what they are posting these days I think I have a 50/50 chance of making it.

I'm in.

I'm *not*! I am so sick of these fascist unicorns, their damn rallies, forcing people to hang rainbow banners everywhere... and then there are the book burnings! They say that they are just protecting us from the insidious effects that horses have on our culture, but I don't believe them.

The time for peaceful protest is over! Who will join the resistance?

Re:Unicorns ruling the universe...

[Anonymous Coward]

There's already a TV show about that.

Let me stand next to your Tesla

[kajong0007]

I can't wait for the headline "Presidential Tesla catches fire while stopped on the highway"

Whatever happened to the fires?

Re:Let me stand next to your Tesla

[geekoid]

they where cause by improper usage.
To answer your question, presumable they were put out.

Ideal case for an electric vehicle...

[tsprig]

I love all the uneducated comments about "it can't work because ... electricity."

There are very large/heavy/fast electric vehicles already. With a vehicle this large and one-off, you could do some pretty cool stuff:

    two (or more?) redundant electric motors for front vs rear drive
    inductive charging (just park next to a transformer somewhere ... haha)
    regenerative breaking for increased range in urban areas
    extreme high efficiency solar cells for maintaining charge/powering internal devices
    gas/diesel backup power plant

Also, with advances in materials, it's possible that armor isn't nearly as heavy for *better* protection.

The real limiting factor will be finding all of the components made exclusively in the US.

Re:Ideal case for an electric vehicle...

[geekoid]

Distance. IN a crisis were air travel isn't feasible, it may Need to go 200 miles in a hurry to get to a safe location.
It will need to fill up quickly and in emergency situation form locations it doesn't know in advance.

If you need to charge it in route, there would be very few locations(at this time) so route option would be predictable.

FYI it weighs about 20,000 lbs

Re:Ideal case for an electric vehicle...

[ArcadeMan]

I wonder if you could replace all the plating with some sort of multiple laminated kevlar layers.

It's too heavy

[geekoid]

and won't go far if it needs too.

the Danish royal family uses one already

[Trepidity]

The Queen's official car is a 1958 Rolls-Royce, but as of a few months ago the Crown Prince uses a Tesla Model S.

Solar panels

[ArcadeMan]

Given that the american presidential limo is more or less 500 meters long, how about putting solar panels on its roof?

Re:So what if the "presidential whatever" is whate

[ClickOnThis]

Does it make any practical difference? Is there any point to this post?

Yes. Practically the poster and various commentators enjoy the hypothetical. In addition, if there were actually a chance of this happening, it would make a practical difference in the security status of the president of the United States.

This.(**)

And also, note that many of the comments are technical in nature, regarding recharging, weight, etc.(*)

(*) News for nerds.
(**) Stuff that matters.

Re:So what if the "presidential whatever" is whate

[ButchDeLoria]

Fun is a buzzword.

Chief Minister of Gibraltar

[tesdaburys]

Chief Minister of Gibraltar has a Tesla. Swapped his Jaguar for it.

Re:Chief Minister of Gibraltar

[RDW]

It probably helps that (a) nobody wants to shoot him and (b) Gibraltar is small enough to drive the Tesla while it's still plugged into the mains.

Re:Chief Minister of Gibraltar

[serviscope_minor]

Gibraltar is small enough to drive the Tesla while it's still plugged into the mains.

Plus, if you tried to get the beast there, one end would probably always be hanging off the edge of the island.

Trolling is fun.

[uCallHimDrJ0NES]

What if the next presidential limo was an post Tesla-sale Apple iCar? Would it still be able to play FLAC?

Well spun, Tesla PR Guy

[Anonymous Coward]

Well spun.

What if - the movie!

[paiute]

What if the Presidential limo burst into flames and the Secret Service agents started shooting Elon Musk?

Not All Of the Magic Words

[jdschulteis]

and what if it was paid for by using bitcoin...
now i think this post has all the magic words to make it a successful slashertisment.

Not all of the magic words. "What if the next presidential limo was a 3D-printed Tesla paid for with bitcoin?" Now we're getting there.

Re:Not All Of the Magic Words

[Anonymous Coward]

Not all of the magic words. "What if the next presidential limo was a 3D-printed Tesla paid for with bitcoin?" Now we're getting there.

With Cloud Storage instead of a trunk

Re:Not All Of the Magic Words

[liquiddark]

And powered by thorium?

Re:So what if the "presidential whatever" is whate

[uCallHimDrJ0NES]

You SO do. You went there so fast...airbody nose you're talking about you.

were a Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

Correct form of the verb please.

What about the weight?

[Dcnjoe60]

Taking a Tesla and adding all of the weight from making it bullet and bomb proof would probably severly limit the range it could go, even if additional battery backs were added. If they want to go green, or at least greener, propane powered would make more sense, or better yet, hydrogen powered. Of course the energy required to produce enough hydrogen to use as a fuel would probably be greater than the energy used via conventional fuel (not much economy of scale for 1 vehicle).

Re:So what if the "presidential whatever" is whate

[Anonymous Coward]

Is English your first language?

Why the length?

[Anonymous Coward]

Could someone explain to me what is the point of using such lengthy cars? Why not the length of a SUV or Mini van? What is with this American politician culture of using "limos" Anyway? I can understand luxury and armored, but i seriously doubt they have any use for the length. And it makes the car harder to drive in case of emergencies.

If Tesla came out with a "Presidential" car, they might as well enter the truck market :)

How about one that runs on hot air or manure?

[PeeAitchPee]

Much more appropriate.

combustion engines: demonstrated unreliability

[SuperBanana]

Tesla can certainly bring it, but the internal combustion engine has over a century of demonstrated reliability.

Keeping in mind that electric cars have been around longer than gasoline cars, and than electric motors are used in the powertrain of every modern locomotive in the united states (and are the prime movers for almost any industrial plant)...not really, actually.

Car engines need a lot of maintenance due to all their sensors, electromechanical and mechanical valves, mazes of hoses and wiring (all of which has to deal with high temperatures), dependence on multiple fluid types (the fuel, the coolant, the lubricant) and need for so much cooling (gasoline engines waste 3/4 of their fuel on heat.) One of the reasons Tesla is getting away with not having dealers is that the cars are so much simpler drivetrain-wise. I imagine the only fluids that need changing are the brake fluid and probably the gearbox oil.

An electric car for the presidential limo would be brilliant, particularly since it typically doesn't need to travel very far most of the time, and an electric vehicle provides massive torque for handling the heft of all that chassis and armor. Adapting an electric drivetrain, in part because of how simple it is and how flexible one can be with component locations, would actually make it far easier on the coach builder. Tesla already has a dual-motor AWD drivetrain, so they've definitely got the oomph (although I suspect the dual-motor drivetrain motors are individually smaller.)

Emergency Scenario

[Ukab the Great]

To back up the parent post, let's say in a single day a sudden coup brings down the government of a development country the president is currently visiting. In i's place is an extremist government that's extremely hostile to the US made up of a lot of recently former terrorists who would love nothing more than hold the US president hostage (or worse). The president is nowhere near Air Force One, and The Beast has to drive 800 miles across hostile territory to reach a SEAL extraction team in a friendly country. The route has to go through very rural areas where Secret Service agents have to do things like hold up gas stations, spending only five minutes pumping before moving on. And where gas stations are sparse, forget even about electric fast-charging stations, the agents have to sneak up to parked cars and steal gas quickly with specialized pump-driven siphons, relying on the fact that gasoline can easily transferred from one car to another quickly. Far faster than any kind of scheme with jumper cables. In this nightmare scenario, you want something ridiculously ubiquitous and instantly replenishable.

An electric Beast would be an absolutely terrible idea. Stateside an electric Beast would actually be a neat PR bit to show the Oval Office cares about green technology. But the fact that electric car advocate geeks will take issue with the above scenario and will make endless excuses for their technology and will dismiss very legitimate practical concerns with electric says a lot about how detached from reality the electric car movement really is right now. Screaming "FUD" really doesn't make anything better.

Re:Emergency Scenario

[Urza9814]

To back up the parent post, let's say in a single day a sudden coup brings down the government of a development country the president is currently visiting. In i's place is an extremist government that's extremely hostile to the US made up of a lot of recently former terrorists who would love nothing more than hold the US president hostage (or worse). The president is nowhere near Air Force One, and The Beast has to drive 800 miles across hostile territory to reach a SEAL extraction team in a friendly country. The route has to go through very rural areas where Secret Service agents have to do things like hold up gas stations, spending only five minutes pumping before moving on. And where gas stations are sparse, forget even about electric fast-charging stations, the agents have to sneak up to parked cars and steal gas quickly with specialized pump-driven siphons, relying on the fact that gasoline can easily transferred from one car to another quickly. Far faster than any kind of scheme with jumper cables. In this nightmare scenario, you want something ridiculously ubiquitous and instantly replenishable.

Has anything like that ever actually happened?

Re:Emergency Scenario

[Anonymous Coward]

And really, the presidential limo should be running on a turbine like in the M1A1 tank that can burn practically anything from lamp oil to JP8 to diesel to natural gas in that kind of scenario.

Re:Emergency Scenario

[Anonymous Coward]

The Beast has to drive 800 miles across hostile territory to reach a SEAL extraction team in a friendly country.

So, we're ignoring the entourage of other vehicles that accompany the beast, or the engine and fuel storage overhauls... Well, if we're going to make up impossible scenarios, what if the president drove to the sun at night and couldn't charge the batteries before daybreak -- He'd roast to death because he didn't have Dinosaurs in his tank.

What if the secret service folks in your deranged imagination could simply avoid holding up gas stations and tap any available power line for power? Fucking idiot.

Re:Emergency Scenario

[ultranova]

But the fact that electric car advocate geeks will take issue with the above scenario and will make endless excuses for their technology and will dismiss very legitimate practical concerns with electric says a lot about how detached from reality the electric car movement really is right now.

Poe's law strikes again.

Re:Emergency Scenario

[Anonymous Coward]

Your example is so contrived that it is silly.

Imagine this scenario: The presidential vehicle is the target of a gas attack.
The vehicle itself is sealed to protect the driver and passengers from chemical attacks. The engine isn't and relies on air intake. It will not move an inch anymore.

What do you think is most likely, that the extremist government that the president for some reason is visiting uses a biochemical attack or that it impossible to extract the president within an 800 mile radius from his location?

It is way more important to get away from the immediate danger, something that combustion engines aren't good at. The improved acceleration of an EV is far more important in a dangerous situation. It could be the difference of getting away before someone has the time to bring up anti-tank weapons.

Don't act like electric engines haven't been used for a long time and in way more extreme environments than anything a presidential vehicle will ever be exposed of.

Re:Emergency Scenario

[swb]

While I'm sure there are contingency plans associated with being cut off from Air Force One and the need to travel to some rendezvous point to get choppered out, my guess is that the security protocol and planning is designed to prevent that very scenario.

The President doesn't just fly in solo on Air Force 1 -- often they send a second 747 as a backup along with a varying number of C-17s or C-5s with support vehicles and over a hundred Secret Service agents. On a Clinton trip to Africa, the air force ran 24 hour fighter missions overhead and the Navy kept a medical ship offshore.

I'm sure the goal is to both secure the plane, secure the route back to the plane and never leave the President cut off, up to the ability to conduct immediate air strikes to insure he can return to the plane.

There may be operational reliability or contingency issues which would limit an electric car overseas, but I think in DC it wouldn't be an unrealistic option.

Re:Emergency Scenario

[AmiMoJo]

To back up the parent post, let's say in a single day a sudden coup brings down the government of a development country the president is currently visiting. In i's place is an extremist government that's extremely hostile to the US made up of a lot of recently former terrorists who would love nothing more than hold the US president hostage (or worse). The president is nowhere near Air Force One, and The Beast has to drive 800 miles across hostile territory to reach a SEAL extraction team in a friendly country.

Sounds like a pretty epic failure in planning. Why would the president ever go into such a dangerous situation? Wouldn't helicopter extraction be safer than driving 800 miles through hostile terrain?

Besides which most of the time he is using this car in friendly countries where it is all about making him look important. Tesla is the only decent American car so he might as well show it off.

Re:Emergency Scenario

[Ukab the Great]

It would take 5-10 minutes of fill up the beast's tank with gas. I don't think an electric car can fully charge up in that amount of time. Any I've heard there are areas of the world that don't currently have available electric service. But again, I'd love to be wrong about both those things.

One problem....

[the eric conspiracy]

Well, presidential limos generally have to be built to withstand a pretty powerful explosion going off underneath the car. Think IED mines.

This would be kinda dicey given this is exactly the location of greatest vulnerability of the Tesla with all that battery + stored energy also located along the bottom of the car. Even a moderate explosion could set off a nasty fire forcing the Prez to abandon his protection.

No, I do not think this is a very good idea. Much better to base it on a conventional design.

Re:One problem....

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, presidential limos generally have to be built to withstand a pretty powerful explosion going off underneath the car. Think IED mines.

This would be kinda dicey given this is exactly the location of greatest vulnerability of the Tesla with all that battery + stored energy also located along the bottom of the car.

That is exactly the benefit of changing the presidential vehicle to electric. You need that extra protection regardless of if you use an ICE or a battery driven engine.
Since you already have the need for the reinforced underside the argument with batteries needing extra protection goes out the window.
On the other hand the current design with ICE doesn't handle gas-leaks very well. While the passengers and driver is protected from chemical attacks and accidents the engine needs air intake and exhaust, an electric engine does not.
This means that changing to electric can give the extra benefit of being able to handle situations where roads are partly flooded or where gas leaks makes the air oxygen deprived and/or explosive.

Re:One problem....

[liquiddark]

Luckily having a giant tank of gas under the car is much safer.

No it cant. Its pretty much a tank. Too heavy.

[enigmatic]

The beast is pretty much a tank. Heavily armored with a lot of communications gear.
I dont think its viable at this point to make it electric and still give it the range it requires.

I am not sure what kind of engine it has, but it has to be something powerful.

At the Paul inauguration in 2017...

[Applehu Akbar]

...I'd love to see the new President being driven slowly through New Jersey in his Tesla, mooning Gov. Christie.

Re:At the Paul inauguration in 2017...

[Anonymous Coward]

Paul is Hillary's best chance.

Wouldn't have the range

[Kjella]

A presidential car would never, ever under normal circumstances be allowed to run close to empty. It must be able to drive the President around all day and still have the range for any emergency that might occur at the worst possible moment and where boarding a helicopter or plane to get out of there is unsafe or unavailable, the nearest safe haven far, far away and getting out to swap cars totally out of the question. Yes, it weighs 20000 pounds and gets 8 MPG but one gallon is about 6 pounds. My guess is that it has a 50-100 gallon gas tank, 300-600 pounds for a 400-800 mile range is still less than half of the Model S's 1200 pound battery pack and I'm sure they always keep the tank over half full. By comparison the Tesla would have to drag around literally tons of batteries. Long, single haul emergency drives is pretty much the worst possible case for an electric.

The President brings his own fuel

[HockeyPuck]

There's talk here about charging stations vs. using local fuel. Well convoy that shows up along with the president brings its' own fuel. They don't trust the local gas in foreign countries because there's no guarantee as to the quality or any foreign additives. I believe the engine in The Beast is a diesel which gives it such torque to move this "tank but looks like a limo" down the street with sufficient speed and acceleration to get away from trouble.

How much battery would you need to accelerate what could be 5tons away from trouble? The model-S "performance" Telsa has 425ftlbs of torque. This is less than most mid size trucks and my 4yr old BMW diesel sedan. There's quite a few off the shelf pickup truck diesels (Cummings, Duramax, Powerstroke) that can put out 700ftlbs or more of torque and you could easily put in more than enough fuel for the president to drive to/from wherever he needed to go (50 gal?)

Battery heads.

[Anonymous Coward]

The new airheads are the battery heads.

If that happened ...

[gargleblast]

The Pope would ditch his Ford Focus for a recumbent bicycle.

But then, the Prez would trade in Air Force One for a Gossamer Albatross.

Checkmate, choirboy.

EMP?

[mechtech256]

Wouldn't the presidential car need to be EMP proof as part of basic security certification?

People would make jokes

[drakesword]

that he is going to get himself fired

Probably not.

[nashv]

A presidential vehicle needs to be a getaway vehicle if it is required to be. This means it must have great range and this range needs to be available reliable.

Energy density of Diesel : 9700 W/L
Energy denisty of Li-Ion : ~500 W/L

So no. Not going to happen. In fact, I can see in the future when all cars are electric, kids being told the awe-inspiring fact "The President is so important that his car has 6 inch armor and even a backup diesel engine!"

It'd have to be a hybrid

[Firethorn]

Personally, the moment you talk about 'in-flight' refueling, I'm thinking what you need to do is make a strong hybrid - battery assist, but also with an engine, most likely diesel*, perhaps even a turbine like what's in the M1(updated and smaller, of course).

This gives you monster power when you need it, and increased efficiency which also increases the range. Between the armor and the battery weight, many things that would normally stop a vehicle won't stop the presidential one.

*less likely to explode if attacked by something like an IED, RPG, and such.

The Secret Service will probably be after you

[Anonymous Coward]

The Secret Service will probably be after you for suggesting that our President put his life in danger by driving a Tesla

Re:So what if the "presidential whatever" is whate

[Anonymous Coward]

You remember what fun was like, right?

Back in my day we typed in hundreds or thousands of lines of code from a book taking painstaking care not to mistype a single character, and without ever running a subset of it. Once it was done we amused ourselves for less than an hour, then went right back to the grind. That was our fun. You young'ns would have called it "work".

Project Cost

[Bo'Bob'O]

Considering each one costs $300k I think there would be better environmental pay back just buying 5 random commuters with badly polluting cars a new Tesla.

The battery pack can't fly...

[Anonymous Coward]

The limo would need to be transported around the world on a cargo aircraft. The battery pack would be a serious hazard in flight...

Re:So what if the "presidential whatever" is whate

[Anonymous Coward]

You were able to type your code?? You young'un.

Back in my day, all we had was stacks of blank Hollerith cards. And an Xacto knife. With just one blade. When that got dull, you had to sharpen it on a dhrystone.

Re:So what if the "presidential whatever" is whate

[Anonymous Coward]

It will or rather should not be for one very simple reason. Reliability. The Tesla in itself is still being developed. Until the technology has a sizable chunk of time to mature, I don't think it should be used. A Hybrid could be used I think, but solely for having a backup system in place making it more likely to work than a single standard engine.

If they wanted to do something fun, they could make a Pope-mobile or have the next one also work as a boat. Either way, it will have the standard armament of heavy plating. The amount of weight may make anything but very powerful gas engines unfeasible.

Convenience of gasoline

[Anonymous Coward]

Gas is much more conveinent than 220 v chargin stations as well. Unless you want to go exchangeable battery packs.

Maybe a hybrid? The extra weight of batteries, etc isn't a big deal as compared to the armor. Run off the batteries, and use an engine to charge them. Have the security detail carry extra battery pack - just in case.

Re:Convenience of gasoline

[nobuddy]

A small 220v diesel generator would top that puppy off quick. And seriously, how often does it go more than a few miles in a ceremonial trip?

Re:Convenience of gasoline

[TWX]

It may not go very far very often, but it absolutely must be capable of going far for those few times when it's essential. I wouldn't be surprised if there are contingency plans to use the current presidential limo to escape every major metro area that the President could find himself in, and the car itself is designed to survive antitank weapons.

Re:Convenience of gasoline

[mwvdlee]

Make it a hybrid.
On it's normal trips (like 99.9999% of all trips) it could run 100% electric.
Whenever there's a shooting, switch to internal combustion.

Re: Convenience of gasoline

[worldthinker]

Would an escape require more than 280 miles? And a typical Presidential entourage is like 30 cars.

Re:Convenience of gasoline

[taiwanjohn]

Although Elon is not fond of hybrids, I reckon he'd make an exception for this case. There's plenty of room in the "frunk" for a gas turbine/generator and a large fuel supply.

WHAT IF THE editors of Slashdot died of HIV ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Posting ads which pretend to be articles causes AIDs.

What about the code that runs it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Could there be some way to remotely disable the car for an ambush attack? How secure are all the computers that control the vehicle?
Forget the weight, speed and range issues. This is a complete rule out. No way would you trust the car's code to be immune from remote attack!

1 Bust of this EMP device and the President is MIN

[Anonymous Coward]

Increasing the likelihood of a technological attack on the presidents vehicle. It's not ideal for security.
Nice ideal however.

there are some benefits...

[Anonymous Coward]

there is the benefit of no fuel tank to explode or worry about in case of an attack/accident. As for weight, there have been advancements in armor tech that would lower the weight of the armor for same level of protection as old armor which would compensate for additional weight gains of batteries.

It would also send a strong environmental message for the presidency if the presidential limo was an electric.

What IF it was a car that turned into a robot!?

[RubberDogBone]

What's the point of pointless what-ifs? It will not be a Tesla, or a Taurus or a Leaf or whatever. It'll probably be a Tahoe or another limo.

And by the way, there will be more than one of them. They always send at least two identical vehicles, and keep spares on stand by.

Weight is an issue

[Anonymous Coward]

The presidential limos are heavy on security features (bulletproof glass, bulletproof door/wall panels, explosion-resistant paneling, etc). These add a *lot* of weight. Obviously, I couldn't tell you how much The Beast weighs, but if you gave this kind of treatment to a normal car, it would easily more than double the stock weight. If you want any reasonable mileage range on it (and it needs to have a good range without support vehicles, if nothing else to allow for security contingencies at any point in its route), the fuel pretty much has to be gasoline or diesel. The raw energy per pound of fuel on gas/diesel is still vastly superior to a charged battery pack, especially when fuel/battery weight itself is factored in.

Been there, done that ...

[dbIII]

Been there, done that and Reagan ripped the solar panels off the roof to "send a message" that imported oil was a better idea than supporting local industry.
After years of people in the same party following that lead the photovoltaic market pioneered in the USA was hampered so much that the Chinese now own that entire industry. Something to be proud of?

Terrible Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Given the probable requirements for the car I believe it would be a terrible idea. But then I'm not a hipster.

Lol...sure...

[Anonymous Coward]

Tesla's little engine can't move anything that heavy - with the bulletproofing and anti-personell mine weight it'd need to have 10 standard Tesla batteries to be the longest vehicle in history.

Re:So what if the "presidential whatever" is whate

[Anonymous Coward]

Then we'd have an alien in an alien! I don't even know what is right anymore.

They are merely exchanging long protein strings. If you can think of a simpler way, I'd like to hear it.

Wisdom follows, pay attention!

[Anonymous Coward]

The US presidental limo has a diesel engine, so as to be resistant to electro-magnetic attacks (no spark plugs, ignition is achieved by air compression heating). There is a compressed air tank based engine starter system for backup and even a handcrank with a small flywheel is available for back-back-up starting. Furthermore, diesel fuel cannot explode, only burns reluctantly, which makes it safer than Otto cycle engines or electric energy storage. Batteries and ultracapacitors can explode spectacularly if something goes wrong. Furthermore, a well-designed and built diesel block will continue to run even if one of the cylinders is breached (think of being penetrated by a projectile or shaped charge).

A Tesla car , being electric and electronic, would be vulnerable to both EMP attacks and cybernetic attacks. Furthermore, the US presidental limo fleet is hauled around the world in a cargo plane, wherever the resident white, black or yellow clown of the white house goes, including climates where electric cars would face difficulty with excessively cold or hot climate.

Middle Men

[gd2shoe]

Probably still be required to buy it through a dealer though...

Can someone explain why that is the way it is?

It is a joke relevant to some of the political hijinks that car dealerships have been pulling lately to subvert Tesla. There are several states that now require any car sales to go through a dealer, specifically to prevent direct sales by Tesla.

The Pres car is not a car

[gelfling]

It's a truck. A Chevy/Isuzu truck with a Caddy DTS body more or less stuffed on it except not really since the body is a one off armored body made to look like a DTS

Re: Sure

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow. I think you spend too much time reading and watching "The Lorax" by Dr Suess. You just about quoted the plot line with this post.

Re:So what if the "presidential whatever" is whate

[Talderas]

...so I put an alien anal probe in your butt.

So I love Electric cars and all but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why bother? Create a solution that's suitable to the task. There's no need to go electric except for symbolism. It's far too impractical

lol

[sootman]

"The Beast is a massive vehicle, which means there would be plenty of room in the structure to have a long battery pack a la Model S... Obviously the battery pack would need to have extra protection so it wouldn't have any issues with road debris, but that's a minor issue."

lolol. Have you ever watched a show about the limo? There's TONS (literally) of extra stuff in there. It is NOT just a long car with thick windows.

Takes too long to refuel

[slapout]

Time to refuel a gas powered car: 10 minutes.
Time to recharge a Telsa: 1 hr and 6 minutes.

The only way I would care....

[TheCarp]

is if it burst into flames with the president in it..... then I might throw a party. Otherwise, this just associates Tesla with a mass murderer who condones torture and doesn't think it needs to be prosecuted aggressively.

Re:So what if the "presidential whatever" is whate

[K. S. Kyosuke]

A dhrystone?! Yeah, whathever floats your point...

what if WHAT IF

[Anonymous Coward]

Your head was made of glass and you had hammers for hands and a bird was trying take your CANDY BAR

WHAT IF

Bad choice

[jennatalia]

The government would get burned on the price.

Don't need those heavy batteries

[vandamme]

Obama can run it off of PV cells on the roof. Maybe he got some in the Solyndra liquidation.

State laws.

[Anonymous Coward]

When the auto industry was created, dealers had no incentive to set up local shops that could be pulled from them without notice, so to encourage local businesses the auto industry created state level laws that disallow selling of vehicles directly from the manufacturer and requiring a local agent. The laws are now antiquated but a lot of potential jobs could be lost through a more efficient distribution model.

There is no way

[Anonymous Coward]

No way an electric vehicle can haul around the amount of armor and equipment in the beast, unless you make a separate trailer for the batteries. (Then you start having the rocket fuel problem). ALso, I know some people may not be fans of the pres, but there's no need to subject him to the actualities of dying in a tesla fire. I'd be more comfortable knowing our pres was riding around in a mechanical injected diesel than anything they would need to plug in.

let's see it then

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's an idea: If you think it can be done, draw up blueprints and post them. Account for every situation, including component failure.

Ablative battery armor

[liquiddark]

So someone takes this, layers it with ablative armor, and suddenly you have a long-range, well-armored vehicle. What's the problem?