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EU Votes For Universal Phone Charger
SmartAboutThings writes "The European Union has voted in favor of a draft legislation which lists among the 'essential requirements' of electrical devices approved by the EU a compatibility with 'universal' chargers. According to a German MEP, this move will eliminate 51,000 tonnes of electronic waste. The draft law was approved by an overwhelming majority: 550 votes to 12. At the moment, according to estimates, there are around 30 different types of charger on the market, but manufacturers have two years at their disposal to get ready for the new restriction."
What phones don't simply use the micro or mini USB cable and 500ma? iPhone 5?
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Apple will do what they want and get away with it like usual.
"This is a backwards step because imposing a single charger stifles innovation, curbs research, and may impose extra costs on the consumer. The alternative and better action is to encourage diversity, competition and greater development..."
Seriously? How much "diversity" and "innovation" do you need in terms of a charger?
Uh, because shareholder-owned corporations have proven unable to come to terms with something this simple and sane, and thus require it imposed on them since they won't self-regulate?
This is just a guess, mind you...
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Innovation on a +5v, 1000mA charger.
What exciting times we live in.
I think the EU will have to show that either Micro USB can do everything that the Lightning connector can. Or they'd have to show that current phones can fit both a MicroUSB AND a Lightning connector. Or they'd have to allow an adapter between a MicroUSB charger and a lightning connector on a phone.
Otherwise, it'd be the EU regulating to reduce features on a popular device, without any safety rationale for doing so. I don't think that would wash.
For some reason I thought the current almost-everyone using microUSB cable was exactly such a requirement form Europe, but that they had for some reason let Apple out of it. And that's why new Samsungs use the microUSB instead of their previous custom connector on my old texting feature phone for example. I'm happy to see a real standard being done, at the same time as I'm surprised that this requirement is new news.
Any charger that MUST go in "this" way and gets slightly damaged every time you accidentally put it in "that" way, eventually leading to permanent damage, should not be considered for any standard. Period.
Oh. And 75% of your devices already use it? 0% of my devices use it. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.
This is not about the mechanical connector (you can always use an adapter cable). This is about those device manufacturers that verify via USB protocol that the charger is made by them too. So the device won't work with anything else regardless of the fact that the cable fits. The idea is that the check should be on the maximum current supported by the charger, not on its make and model.
All the existing USB connectors are about to be replaced too. Type A, type B, micro, mini, full sized; they are all being superseded by the new type C.
The USB IF hasn't showed any pictures or diagrams yet, but their design goals are that it be similar in size to micro, be reversible (like a Lightning connector), use the same connector on both ends (solving the printer problem, but with type A to C cables used for backwards compatibility), support USB 3.1 (with extra pins for forwards compatibility), and support the charging standards (which allow devices to say how much power they want, and get large amounts of power for charge-only situations).
Basically, it tries to address all the problems with the existing USB ecosystem, all the reasons why a company like Apple might make their own connector.
Except that's how it was and not only did every manufacturer have their own proprietary charger, but they tended to change them every couple of handsets just to keep things interesting. Your options were either to carry your charger everywhere with you (which somewhat defeats the point of having a mobile phone) or just hope that if you needed to charge your phone outside of your house that someone nearby had exactly the same charger as you so you could borrow it.
That's on top of the extra waste generated when you can't keep your old charger for use with your new phone.
There's nothing to stop the standard from being changed in the future as technology advances, it just means that you won't have 30 different proprietary cables to pick from.
No, you don't get a charger with every phone. Imagine being able to buy a phone that you already have a charger for so you don't have to have 20 different chargers in your house.
Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
Innovation on a +5v, 1000mA charger.
What exciting times we live in.
If you think that's cool, just wait until you see what we have in store for Cellphone and Internet data prices.
Progress!
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
This is what the European Union really does - they set standards so stuff works all over Europe, across borders and across vendors. Like GSM phones. In the past, over 20 years they moved the 220V and 240V countries to 230V. That was completed in 2003. Trying to get the whole EU to use the same AC power plug, though, was not successful.
Ooh, talking points! Let me try! Wait. OK, I've got it!
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Lot of things people say
What the heck's going on?
Let me tell ya!
Who built the pyramids?
ELVIS!
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ELVIS!
Yeah, man you see guys
walking down the street
pushing shopping carts
and you think they're talking to Allah,
they're talking to themself.
Man, no they're talking to ELVIS!
ELVIS! ELVIS!
You know whats going on in that Bermuda Triangle?
Down in the Bermuda Traingle
Elvis needs boats.
Elvis needs boats.
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Funny, my Android phone uses a common charger. Apple does not, so I don't buy from them (among other reasons). That's how a free market works. The problem is that too many people aren't willing to give up their precious iPhones in protest to Apple's greedy business practices of using expensive proprietary software. I guarantee you if the majority of Apple's customers stopped buying their products, Apple would start changing. But they don't, so Apple has no reason to stop doing what they are doing. Corporations won't usually self regulate. They will, however, take the most profitable route. If consumers don't demand regulation from corporations in exchange for their money, then obviously it won't happen.
The cord wont stay plugged into my s3, old or new. I have to pinch it against something or it falls out.
I replied to the wrong parent. Oops.
The "other jack" is a USB 3.0 microUSB port. It's backwards compatible with the USB 2.0 microUSB port.
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
No. He is. They are just his kind of clowns, so they don't look funny to him. That is the only difference.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
The USB3 micro plug, as seen on some Samsung phablets, is a micro-USB2 plug + an extra plug. So, you can either connect a micro-USB2 cable and get USB2 speeds, or you can connect a micro-USB3 cable and get USB3 speeds.
However, it's a HUGE connector, almost twice as wide as a micro-USB2 connector.
I believe the Note 3 uses it.
So can they make two standards, USB2 micro and USB3 micro?
The USB 3.0 microUSB port is fully backwards compatible with the USB 2.0 microUSB port.
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
Because exactly that is what a government is for.
You only see the plug, we see the environment and energy savings.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
I'm hoping they move away from the "tiny post with pins sticking up inside the slot" setup that USB of all stripes uses, and toward a "the pins are on the outside of the slot".
There's nothing worse than having that tiny post inside the micro-USB slot break off.
Look at the 3.5 mm headphone jack for inspiration. Look at the Lightning connector for inspiration. Hell, look at the old mini Christmas light bulbs for inspiration. Make the end plug solid, and connect to pins/connectors around the slot that it plugs into. Nothing to break off inside. Nothing to bend.
99% of the time my iPhone is "plugged in" it is plugged into a wall connector for charging. Every connector can do that. ... why do I need a special cable? Because it is 5% faster than an ordinary USB? I doubt it ...
No one prevents a phone from having two connectors, one for power and one for "what ever reason the lightning connector is used for".
I mean: you should be able to synch via bluetooth or wifi
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Because the corporations couldn't stop squabbling like children overdue for naptime long enough to come to an agreement. So papa government had to stand them in opposite corners and make the decision for them.
Now that would be a reliable connector, more power than piddly USB, and it would lead to widespread adoption of power-over-ethernet. win-win-win.
Now that's a bad idea: that would make the minimum cell phone thickness ~10mm. (An RJ45 is about 8 mm "tall".) Many (most?) smartphones are already less than 10 mm thick.
The only actual features of the lightning connector are that it can be used by people who have suffered too much brain damage to understand spatial orientation and Apple can use dirty tricks to make sure only the unique Apple special snowflake cable can work.
Over the last decade, everyone has already standardized on USB as the default. Everything I need to charge can be charged off a USB port, and I only need 2 different cables, one for my wife's iPod, and a micro USB for everything else.
The reason this is a terrible idea, is that when someone does come up with a better connector (for example, Apple's Lightning connector), they may not be able to produce/sell it because the standard has already been set. As usual, the EU is late to the party and trying to solve a problem that's already been solved, while potentially causing problems for the future.
Pro tip, the correct response when the cable won't go in with normal pressure is *NOT* CAPTAIN CAVEMAN!!!! WHAM!!!!!!! WHAM!!!!!! WHAM!!!!!!!
That takes care of all but the few exceptionally crappy connectors that would be made just as crappy if they were non-standard.
how is me talking about charger compatibility considered off topic?? lol
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
Funny, my Android phone uses a common charger. Apple does not, so I don't buy from them (among other reasons). That's how a free market works.
Android phones use a common charger because the EU started pushing for that standard years ago, not because of a free market. Apple signed on to the micro-usb 5V standard in Europe back in '09 and introduced the necessary adapters a few years later.
I hate having to try one way to plug in the cable, then flip it over, then flip it over again before finally getting it right. (It's more challenging than it sounds with a baby in one arm). That's one thing Apple got right.
The old EU standard for phones allowed the use of an adapter, which is how Apple met it. Presumably the new standard will as well.
I think its quite good decision in short run, since it will kill all those weird connectors with no merit to them aside from being unique and driving charger sales for manufacturer. On the other hand in the long run its bad, since it actually hampers ("why bother if we have to put usb anyway") or even completely blocks some possible innovation (eg wirelessly charged waterproof phone with no external connections at all).
IMO the best course would be to keep this legislation for a several years (5-10) to get everyone to standardize and then repeal it. Given its EU though, I expect we are stuck with those connectors long after it will become completely obsolete...
BS. Android phones would use USB charging anyway, it's the cheapest path.
Lolno. You _do_ get a charger with every phone. What phone have you ever bought that doesn't come with a charger?
Other than being uses in 99% of Ethernet devices? Uh...Nothing else, I guess?
I have a cell phone which is neither dumb nor smart but inbetween, and I can't get the pictures out of it (it has a webcam) or music into it. The memory card is proprietary micro "memory stick" (ha!), I don't have a bluetooth module on my PC, the one thing I can plug it in is the mains charger : power only, not data transfer.
Such a pain in the ass! (sending or configuring MMS doesn't seem to work)
I'm stuck with a useless webcam, sure I could order a bluetooth module or a special cable but it's an extra expense and hassle. Yes the phone is a bit old but looks about five year old.
If the EU mandates USB, and if the phone has a webcam, it would be nice that I can get these damn pictures out of a phone and onto my PC so I can look at them or send them by e-mail. i.e. mandate USB storage access (or SD card at least) if the cell phone has a webcam.
Why do they think this is a matter for governments to decide?
Same reason each country has a standard railroad track, a standard power outlet, etc. Letting industries decide on mutually incompatible standards largely serves to lock in consumers and also creates great inefficiencies in the economy due to incompatbility. Standardization would allow business like cafes & airports to offer charging solutions that fit all their customers, and it would produce less physical waste.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
While I like the idea of easy to swap chargers, I don't really like the idea of the government mandating it.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
Politicians don't even come close to corporate officers in their ability to line their own pockets and to set up a self-sustaining reaction to keep the money flowing in. If corporations are like a professional football league, politicians are like those youth leagues organized by the YMCA...
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
every 9 years or so.
I have used iPods with the dock-connector, the original iPhone and every iPhone and iPad up to the iPhone 5s now. I collected a pile of chargers and cables and they all are used, still. I'm sure that the charger of my very first iPhone is used everyday. There is no better investment into cables and chargers I have made within the last decade. Similar, but not as good, with the Powerbooks. Most of the chargers have had a very long life, and my very first Magsafe-Charger is still in use, daily. I have no use for the original Powerbook Charger anymore, though.
I own an assorted set of non-Appe tablets (currently Thinkpad T2, Nexus 7) and from daily use (they are fine devices for some uses) I'm very confident to have gathered enough datapoints to say:
"mini/micro-USB2/3 for a mobile phone or tablet on the device-side sucks. It's stupid and clumsy and everybody arguing that Apple should go USB (on the phone) is stupid, too, and most likely does not own such a device but just want's cover up a pychological deficite. Micro-USB-3 is just a really pathetic joke."
Don't force my to use the shit that you consider sufficient and I promise to keep quiet and use my chargers for years over years.
And now please have a look at
Apple vs. Samsung: A Decade Of Proprietary Connectors
http://www.cultofmac.com/19077...
Until recently, all Apple devices used a common charger. At some point in the not-too-distant future, all Apple devices will use a common charger again.
So, by platform, Android isn't that much different than iOS.
Apple made some design decisions vis-a-vis their connector. You don't have to agree with them, but they had some specifications that they wanted to meet that USB didn't and still doesn't allow them to. (Having a reversible connector that doesn't need to be aligned a specific way is a perfectly reasonable design decision from the point of view of usability.)
Anyway, you can plug that cable into basically anything that accepts a common USB 2 connector and it'll work. So it's compliant on at least one end of the cable.
I don't know what expensive proprietary software you're talking about--iOS? I mean, yeah, I don't want to stop using iOS because I like it. I'm not sure what you're getting at.
Most phones except for the American Company Apple uses a Micro USB.
Oh, please -- put down the flag.
As an American Apple user, I hate the fact that Apple doesn't use the same charger / data cable as everyone else and that, worse, my iPhone 5 isn't even compatible with my iPhone 3 charger. It's an overpriced, short POS that has a pointless chip in it to prevent third party cables from working properly. It's also not water-resistant (which is great in case you accidentally drop the end of it into a glass of water on your desk). All in all, Apple's new charger has significantly worsened my enjoyment of the phone.
So, I'm all for standardization on something nearly everyone else has agreed is sane. Apple gets no free pass for being American with me.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
I read it as:
EU Votes For Universal Phone Charger
The draft law was approved by an overwhelming majority: 550 volts to 12.
Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated up.
I wish DIN would make a standard specification for cordless power tool battery attachment. It'd be nice to be able to interchange brands with batteries and tools.
Funny at this point why even bother with a charging port standard wireless charging is the new hotness. QI medium power delivers 120w.
No sir I dont like it.
It's not worth fixing with a proprietary socket that actively detects generic versions and rejects them while more than doubling the cost. It would be worth fixing with a fully open design. Or it could be fixed with color coding the shell around the connectors. It could even be fixed by putting a bump on the top of the connector to make orientation clear.
At the same time, I don't see a bunch or people ripping their hair out because their house key needs a particular orientation.
My mum just bought a brand new Nokia 100 for £9, including SIM card and charger. The charger has a special Nokia proprietary connector on it, not USB. If USB were the cheapest option I'm sure they would have used it, but I imagine they are actually hoping to rip her off on spare cables and chargers. Fortunately I already have a USB adapter, otherwise it would have gone back to the shop.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
how is me talking about charger compatibility considered off topic?? lol
You must be new here.
Obviously you've upset a Samsung fanboi. An Apple fanboi will mod you as insightful shortly. I'm screwed as they will both mod me a troll for pointing this out.
By the time this gets implemented, every mobile device will be using a universal inductive charger.
In C++, your friends can see your privates.
Perhaps in the US where they're big on creating waste it might be different.
Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
The only actual features of the lightning connector are that it can be used by people who have suffered too much brain damage to understand spatial orientation
One way sockets that are hard to get the right way around first time annoy people. If you haven't noticed that, then you are very unobservant. If you think that kind of annoyance isn't worth fixing with new sockets, then you are an idiot.
Good plug & socket designs go in the first time, and don't require looking. Take the jack plug as an old, yet excellent example.
Yeah, I totally hate HDMI cables too, they suck! So what if I can get pure digital HD video and audio on the same tiny cable, as opposed to the five required for component (with stereo sound and lesser vidoe quality). I just hate having to actually look at the cable and port I'm trying to plug it into: I'd much rather just jab them together blindly until it goes in!
Same goes for DVI, S-Video and even VGA! Yeah, screw them all, I'll stick to composite, man! Fight the power!
"I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
It would be worth fixing with a fully open design.
In other words, you accept that it *IS* better, but you are prepared to put up with the currently worse open designs, because they are open. Much as the users of desktop Linux are using an inferior OS on the basis that openness trumps usability for them.
Or it could be fixed with color coding the shell around the connectors.
It would help, but it's still inferior to a design that doesn't need looking at.
At the same time, I don't see a bunch or people ripping their hair out because their house key needs a particular orientation.
Because the keyed side and the smooth side is so very clear, with or without looking. And they use their house key often enough that the up/down orientation of the key is remembered. This doesn't tend to happen with USB plugs of all types. People need to look at both plug and socket to match them up each time.
Because wireless charging is in its infancy and has a huge loss rate.
Why should I charge my phone wireless (does my hotel have such a charger or do I need to carry my own?) when I can use a wire and a plug and save 75% of the costs?
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Thats because the iPhone method is the best. You android dumb asses are too stupid to realize that.
Perhaps if Apple wasn't so damn greedy and would let everyone use it we would realize it. But as it is, I'd rather have a phone that meets my needs and has a lesser charging port than the other way around.
That's easy for adults to manage but not so much for kids. I just think it's miserable that we're still making connectors like this in the 21st century - just make all connectors cylindrical, dammit. It's not like we're talking about 32 pins here.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
I accept that all else being equal, a plug that doesn't care about orientation is slightly better. But all else is not equal here. The Apple connector adds complexity to the design that increases cost and failure rate. To add insult to injury, some of that complexity is added specifically to accomplish a goal that is detrimental to me. A universal power connector is too important to let a single sue-happy corporation control it.
As for the Linux thing, I choose Linux FOR it's usability. Offer me a free copy of Windows or OSX and I will still choose Linux.
Because the keyed side and the smooth side is so very clear, with or without looking.
So you acknowledge that adding a bump on the top would address the issue adequately.
They probably needed something "new" and thus patentable. And since all the good possibilities were already used (prior art), they came up with the contraption that you like to hate.
If the company can make extra money by selling after market proprietary chargers, then USB isn't the cheapest path.
I think part of the problem has to do with charging standards. There is a standard for USB charging. The problem is Apple doesn't follow it and has their own standard. I can't count the number of adapters I have bought where my phone won't charge properly because they follow the Apple "standard" rather than the USB standard. I have had a hell of a time finding a car charger that follows the USB standard. Almost all of them follow the Apple standard. My phone has actually gone dead plugged in to these chargers. I have to open them up and modify them to follow the USB standard. This basically involves shorting the two data pins together and removing a couple resistors. About the only thing Apple has in common with USB charging is the connector since they do not follow the USB charging standard.
This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
I actually gave that some thought, since it really does work well for stereo audio. Then I realized that it's the nature of the signal that makes that OK. Nothing in the audio signal is all that sensitive to being briefly shorted or connected to the wrong pin. OTOH, for USB both sides REALLY need ground to connect first and to have power connect only to power. It also has to work at considerably higher frequency.
Oddly enough, many kids seem to be fine with trying another orientation, it's the adults that try cramming connectors together.
With old chargers no longer becoming junk it's clear the market it cut down into fraction of what it used to be too, so perhaps we'll see only one or two charger manufactuers.
Markets dependent on planned obsolescence, and business models that rely on turning working and non-inferior equipment into e-waste, can go straight to hell.
The last thing I want is some politician locking me in to some similar BS desgn.
Got it, loud and clear.
So who, other than a politician, do you want locking you into a similar BS design, because you're going to get a BS design, whether you want one or not.
"We have established what you are, madam. We are now merely haggling over the price." -- G.B. Shaw
I think manufacturers might willingly omit cables from their products, like we see with printers. One effect of standardizing chargers is that everyone will just buy cheap generic chargers from China. (as opposed to expensive brand name chargers from China)
Regular USB will do 10 watts, 5 volts 2 amps. My Samsung phone uses just such a charger. Need more? The USB Power Delivery standard, which needs different cables, will handle up to 100 watts, that being 20v 5a.
USB PD was standardized in July 2012 so it has been around for awhile.
You can get 10 watts over it, no issue. All the new high end Samsung phones come with a 5v 2a charger that is nothing special. 10 watts is more than plenty for phone devices. That is enough to run the device at full bore and to still have power left over to charge. You wouldn't want a cellphone that could draw more than that, it would have next to no battery life.
I'd be fine with a connector that is better, if someone wants to work up and introduce a standard, meaning an open standard the whole industry can use (like USB). But I'm not buying the bullshit of needing proprietary connectors because of power requirements. No, not for handheld devices. USB is fine. Use it, or introduce a better standard.
And buy a new cable every few months?
I've had several cables whose plastic clippy endy things have snapped off, including ones with rubber covers. They still work but you have to hold the cable in place, rather than the satisfying click that normally accompanies inserting the cable.
That's just from carrying the cable in a laptop bag and plugging it in each day.
So expect Apple to provide a power-only micro-usb charger port on their devices, and it will be a slow charge... But still requiring their proprietary port for data / sync, which happens to also allow fast charging.
Which one would the apple sucker use? The proprietary port, of course.
There's nothing unreasonable about different companies having different standards. This is none of the governments' business. It's regulation where there should be none. The state should stick to their core business of protecting people from the initiation of force.
Now that would be a reliable connector, more power than piddly USB
USB-PD supports 5A at 12V (60W) or 20V (100W). Not so piddly compared to PoE with 720mA at 50V (36W).
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
I've snapped the central post off a micro-USB rendering the phone useless. Supposedly, this should never happen but does. Your assurances that inferior non reversible ports are a good solution sound false.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Note to mr condescending. I've snapped the central post off a blackberry micro-USB employing no particular force. Yeah, I'm sure blackberry uses crappy micro-USB connectors, how could they not when it's such a crappy standard.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Yup, when that central post in the micro USB connector snaps off, the micro-USB3 is just as useless as a micro-usb.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Centronix printer cables! People NEED those wire clips on each end to make sure that the phone doesn't unplug itself when charging...
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
If you used no particular force, what would keep a symmetrical connector from snapping off the same way?
Not having a fragile central post inside the connector helps
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
But it would have a central post. Axial connections don't work for this application.
It is worth noting that it is mostly poorly made USB connectors that have the center post break with no particular force. A manufacturer that uses such an inferior part will choose the inferior version of any standard connector.
Yes, when I went into the Verizon stofe to get a "charge cable for a Dalaxy Npte 3" they told me they didn't stock them, and that I should use a microUSB cable, it would just charge slower.
But I found that the USB3.0 cable that came with my USB3.0 hard drive would work fine.
And with the Samsung cable the side of the connecter that has the samsung name on faces towards you when you're looking at the screen of the phone. .
Does the Nokia 100 include a data port? I don't think so, in which case a charging only port would be cheaper. But if you're doing data as well, then it's cheaper to simply hook the USB up for charging as well.
I don't read AC A human right
The only actual features of the lightning connector are that it can be used by people who have suffered too much brain damage to understand spatial orientation
One way sockets that are hard to get the right way around first time annoy people. If you haven't noticed that, then you are very unobservant. If you think that kind of annoyance isn't worth fixing with new sockets, then you are an idiot.
Good plug & socket designs go in the first time, and don't require looking. Take the jack plug as an old, yet excellent example.
To be fair, a cable that is plugged in daily is a very different use case than one that is plugged in once and left plugged in until a component is replaced. The design tradeoffs are different if it gets a lot of plugging in/out action.
Yeah, I totally hate HDMI cables too, they suck! So what if I can get pure digital HD video and audio on the same tiny cable, as opposed to the five required for component (with stereo sound and lesser vidoe quality). I just hate having to actually look at the cable and port I'm trying to plug it into: I'd much rather just jab them together blindly until it goes in!
Same goes for DVI, S-Video and even VGA! Yeah, screw them all, I'll stick to composite, man! Fight the power!
Yeah, I totally hate HDMI cables too, they suck! So what if I can get pure digital HD video and audio on the same tiny cable, as opposed to the five required for component (with stereo sound and lesser vidoe quality). I just hate having to actually look at the cable and port I'm trying to plug it into: I'd much rather just jab them together blindly until it goes in!
Nice attempt at sarcasm, but you missed the point. People want 'everything'. I'd say that I've plugged more cables in under less than ideal circumstances than with a good view of what I'm trying to plug in - such as into the back of a computer when I can't see the back, less than ideal lighting, odd angles, etc.. Having a cable where I don't have to worry about orientation makes it so much easier. Component video is less than ideal because you still need 3-5 cables plugged into the correct spots.
Roughly speaking, the question might be WHY is HDMI only orientable in two ways? Could they have made it so it's reversible without sacrificing any utility?
Heck, consider the bandwidth available from coax. Why do we need all those wires, because it's cheaper?
I don't read AC A human right
Speaking of power, those wall outlets supplying mains voltage also require orienting them correctly, as do ethernet cords, even fibre optic cords are designed to require proper orientation (though that one has always struck me as odd) people seem to manage all of these in their daily lives without issues, yet as soon as you put it on a phone it confounds them.
While I am a fan of micro USB in general, I don't see why"axial connectors don't work" it's only 4 pins. Not that hard to do on an axial connector. In fact the other common connector on phones (headset) has the same number of pins and doesn't require any orientation.
Consider when you plug it in. How do you assure that it makes and maintains a ground connection first and breaks it last? How well will it handle the momentary shorts as you plug in? Analog signals in the audible range tend to be fairly insensitive to all of that. Digital connections operating in the MHz range are a different story.
No. Lightning has no central post. Again, I have personally broken the center post off of a blackberry phone -- a professional phone if ever there was one. It isn't just me either, it happens regularly given the drawer full of them we have at work.
It's not that some substandard connectors suck, it's that the micro-USB norm itself sucks. Micro-usb is just an inferior standard to Lightning, that tiny central post is a critical failure just waiting to happen.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
So it's your position that the shorts that happen rarely and when plugging in/out are the reason why axial plugs cannot be used? We couldn't use axial plugs that would initiate connections only at low voltage and then ramp up after negotiation? It's too hard to construct a minor variant that detects when the plug is being unconnected and cuts the juice? It's also too hard to design an axial plug that only initiates digital signals once the plug is fully inserted?
It's NOT that the USB geeks are too steeped in NIH to take a look at anything other than what they designed?
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
The shorts happen EVERY time. Ever plugged a cord into an amp that's turned on?
You sure do like adding complexity to the thing.
So is lightning a proximity device or magnetically coupled?
My phone has a micro-usb connector. It has worked flawlessly for years. It helps that it's designed to spec so that no contact can be made with the central connector if you have the plug oriented the wrong way. If the connectors you've seen didn't work that way, they were sub-standard and it's no wonder they broke.
You just know that Apple will continue to use a proprietary connector. I also wouldn't be surprised if they concoct some bullshit reason to put a chip into the cable that hobbles charging unless you happen to use an Apple authorised charger.
Any damage due to intermittent shorts can be designed around in order to produce a connector that is better adapted to the use people want to make of it. Say by not making the digital connections active until a good seat has been made and appropriate voltage has been negotiated.
Your position is apparently that Micro-USB needs no improvement. Why? Did you participate in designing Micro-USB and thus refuse to see any alternative?
Why don't you try answering the rest of my questions instead of cherry picking?
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Oh, good for you. You never broke the fragile post that's in the center of the Micro-USB connector rendering the device useless.
Now consider this: That post often breaks. Maybe it never happened to you, wonderful, but just maybe a better connector that DOESNT have that weakness is superior to one that does? Supposedly, Micro-USB was designed so that this would be well nigh impossible. Well the designers did a crappy job, we have a drawer full of useless phones at work due to bad contacts, broken posts, contacts that came unglued from the post and were bent up, etc.
In all the years I've been driving, I've never wrapped a car around a tree or even had a major accident. That does not blind me to the fact that modern cars with impact absorbing engine compartments, seat belts & airbags are better than a 57 Chevy.
Lightning is a connector that, not having that central post, being reversible and much more solidly constructed, does not suffer from these problems inherent in micro-USB. You should go out and look at one. It's not like looking at one would burn you like holy water is supposed to burn vampires...
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Yes.
But that was since 2009 the same parliament made a threat to pass such a ruling. Back then, all phone manufactures "voluntarily" agreed on using USB as standard charging plug until 2013. So this is just the next step, but manufacturers now have a chance to agree on some other standard (if neccessary)
So without this story, phones today would not have USB connections for charging.
bickerdyke
A iPhone, no idea about other smart phones, needs a charge nearly every day. Well, I usually have wifi off and don't phone much, so I manage 3 days usually.
So I have hundred charges per year, surely a few hundred watts, perhaps a killowatt. If I lose 75% during wireless charging that makes 4 kW instead of 1kW.
It is not much money but it is noticeable.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Your Android phone uses a common charger because the EU mandated all phones use a MicroUSB charger. Apple gets around that by providing an adapter, which I think is free for people in the EU and for a few dollars here in the States.
Your free-market argument is made in ignorance.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
That's only the cheapest path because all phones use it now... because it was mandated by the EU. Prior to that the "cheapest" (or more likely, most profitable) path was proprietary, which is why everyone did it pre-mandate.
This is why free-market libertarianism is akin to a religion: the arguments are largely based on counterfactual faith.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
Because all of your questions come down to "but it will be so simple if we just add two orders of magnitude more complexity". Also you forgot that the USB device is inert until it gets power from the USB host. How's it going to negotiate power and connection if it has no power?
I have seen lightning. Reinforce the tab, strip the circuitry that permits detection of non-apple cables, and make a version that Apple doesn't own, and I would consider it. Otherwise, replace center post in your complaints with flimsy tab, because once anyone can make one, you'll see shoddy ones on the market and complaints about how the tab broke off in the socket and such. In other words, like micro-USB, your experience will be directly related to the quality of the construction.
If the micro-usb socket and plug are made to spec, the center posts do not make contact at all unless plugged in in the correct orientation. No contact, no break.
The Apple connector adds complexity to the design that increases cost and failure rate.
Cost, maybe. Failure rate, no chance. MicroUSB is well known for breaking; there's no such reputation for Lightning. Just looking at the two and you can see Lightning is a more robust design. And of course the fact that you can't attempt to plug it in the wrong way helps reduce chances of damage.
Offer me a free copy of Windows or OSX and I will still choose Linux.
I didn't suggest people chose Linux for it's free-of-costness, but it's openness. And you convince yourself that it's more usable, but it's not. That's why it never got widespread adoption.
So you acknowledge that adding a bump on the top would address the issue adequately.
No, it would address it only partially. You snipped the other point that a door key is used often enough that it's orientation is second nature.
See what the failure rate looks like when there's a few dozen no-name manufacturers of lightning. Micro-USB built to spec don't have the center post breaking problem. Lightning cables built off spec would likely have problems.
Linux is ACTUALLY more usable to me than either Windows or OSX (if Linux isn't an option, OSX is second choice). Windows feels like trying to build a ship in a bottle while wearing boxing gloves. It's just plain clunky. OSX replaces the boxing gloves with mittens.
I plug/unplug my phone more often during the day than I use my house key. That is likely true for many people.
Ah, so you HAVE seen lightning. hope the admission that you have seen other than the holy Micro-USB didn't sting too much.
Now, to address clearly a point that you have repeatedly mis-characterized, the problem with micro-USB isn't with shoddy connectors. The cables and sockets in the blackberries i mentioned are top of the line, no micro-USB's problem is shoddy or at least obsolete technical conception. Without that fragile central plastic post and with an injection molded solid metal (& not hollow) connector, lightning does not have micro-USBs failures.
Do note that cheaper non-apple lightning connectors without micro-USBs failings already exist, but don't let that stop you from blindly ignoring it's advantages.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
No. Micro-USB has manifest weaknesses that you refuse to address. When I confront you with them with simple questions you avoid answering the majority, cherry pick one and say that the others are "too complicated". You're clearly beyond your competency level here.
You are mistaken in stating that I forgot anything. I stated early in the this read on that negotiating power up from a low level with a function to only start once the connector was completely seated was possible. You are clearly not reading all my posts or are incapable of understanding them.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
What makes you think the connectors on the Blackberry were top of the line? Apparently not their durability.
As for the clone lightning cables, you mean like this? Just waiting for Apple to nuke it with an update to the OS?
Like I said, strip the crap out and don't let a company like Apple control it and it might be worth discussing.
Did a cuckoo actually pop out of your forehead just now? I addressed your impractical scheme that near as I can tell would require all bus powered devices to have a battery in order to be able to connect in full.
I get it, USB left it's socks on your table, killed your cat and attempted to exterminate the Jews back in the mid 20th century. Good thing Lightning was there to stop it!
As I said, show me a decent and workable connector and it might be worth considering. Do not show me some crazy Rube Goldberg system owned by a single entity and protected by a crypto chip. Those are non-starters.
To be fair, a cable that is plugged in daily is a very different use case than one that is plugged in once and left plugged in until a component is replaced. The design tradeoffs are different if it gets a lot of plugging in/out action.
You mean...like USB Type A cables and thumb drives?
Yeah, maybe we should scrap the lot and go back to every developer using proprietary plugs to drive up peripheral sales. Works for me!
"I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
Speaking of power, those wall outlets supplying mains voltage also require orienting them correctly, as do ethernet cords, even fibre optic cords are designed to require proper orientation (though that one has always struck me as odd) people seem to manage all of these in their daily lives without issues, yet as soon as you put it on a phone it confounds them.
Yet they still manage to get their sparkly cases on their phones, even though there's not a camera and charger hole on both ends...funny, that :)
"I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
Yeah, I totally hate HDMI cables too, they suck! So what if I can get pure digital HD video and audio on the same tiny cable, as opposed to the five required for component (with stereo sound and lesser vidoe quality). I just hate having to actually look at the cable and port I'm trying to plug it into: I'd much rather just jab them together blindly until it goes in!
Nice attempt at sarcasm, but you missed the point. People want 'everything'. I'd say that I've plugged more cables in under less than ideal circumstances than with a good view of what I'm trying to plug in - such as into the back of a computer when I can't see the back, less than ideal lighting, odd angles, etc.. Having a cable where I don't have to worry about orientation makes it so much easier. Component video is less than ideal because you still need 3-5 cables plugged into the correct spots.
Roughly speaking, the question might be WHY is HDMI only orientable in two ways? Could they have made it so it's reversible without sacrificing any utility?
Heck, consider the bandwidth available from coax. Why do we need all those wires, because it's cheaper?
Well, I suspect it would have something to do with keeping to a standard pinout. Yes, they probably could have made HDMI a fully x/y mirrored plug, but probably at the cost of doubling the number of power and data connectors, hence doubling the connector and socket thickness or length...while knowing full well that one set of contacts will be idle every time the cable is plugged in. Apparently apple gets around this by using both serial data paths at the same time, but the HDMI standard needed a bit simpler connection: it didn't have the equivalent of a desktop computer's processing power on either end to handle variable serial data streams across one set of contacts. Note that I said didn't: with the rise of smarter and smarter devices, it's entirely possible that now it does have that brains on either end...but we do have to pick a system and go with it, and the one that works with the widest array of devices will ultimately win in the end.
From an engineering and materials efficiency point of view, having uni-directional plugs is simply an accepted standard. Other than audio and component video cables (and that little apple plug, of course), what else is omni-directional? (Okay, the lightning plug is only bi-directional, but you know what I mean) Hard drive connectors (sata and IDE), all of the power connectors in your computer, 120V plugs, 20A plugs, USB cables, thumb drives, etc, etc, they only go into the socket one way: if you force it you break it. At least micro-usb has those little springy things on the bottom: I can feel them with a finger, figure out the orientation and plug in my phone in the dark, no problem. If it were a USB-A plug, I might be cursing a bit...
"I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
To be fair, a cable that is plugged in daily is a very different use case than one that is plugged in once and left plugged in until a component is replaced. The design tradeoffs are different if it gets a lot of plugging in/out action.
You mean...like USB Type A cables and thumb drives?
Yeah, maybe we should scrap the lot and go back to every developer using proprietary plugs to drive up peripheral sales. Works for me!
I didn't say that everyone would come up with the same decision as to the importance of "ease of pluggin in". Certainly the USB standards decided that the tradeoffs of having a reversible plug were not worth it. I don't know if they were right or not, but I have spent a measurable amount of time flipping USB plugs around to get them in the right way, on an almost daily basis. It is not a *big* deal, but it would be nice not to wast that time.
The advantages of having a plug standard should not be undervalued however, even when that standard is not perfect. I certainly prefer the "U" in USB over the non-universality of almost every other form.
You put it in, and it doesn't fit, so you turn it over.
You put it in again, it doesn't fit, so you turn it back over.
Now it fits.
That's because USB connectors have a quantum spin of 1/2!
Oh, and http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id...
No, once again you did not:
"So it's your position that the shorts that happen rarely and when plugging in/out are the reason why axial plugs cannot be used? We couldn't use axial plugs that would initiate connections only at low voltage and then ramp up after negotiation? It's too hard to construct a minor variant that detects when the plug is being unconnected and cuts the juice? It's also too hard to design an axial plug that only initiates digital signals once the plug is fully inserted?"
You feebly objected that shorts would rule out axial & avoided answering the rest.
You've got two connectors (axial & lightning) that do not have rotation or fragile central post issues yet you continue to push micro-USB. Why have you systematically avoided answering why you defend micro-USB when it is clearly inferior?
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Snort, Blackberry, the original corporate phone & the only smartphone to have made it into the white house uses crappy connectors?!? Sure sport, whatever you say, what ever you say.
I've never snapped the central post off a Samsung which is your preferred phone but there are a few in that drawer at work. Samsung is crap now too, right? Will you now turn to HTC as the source of non-crappy phones? Maybe ZTE is more your speed, though.
Aww gee, you found a badly engineered Lightning cable that might rip away on the cable side of the connector. That certainly addresses my point that micro-USB has a weakness on the terminal side with an easily snapped central post, or at least it does in your mind. Good for you. You really argued that one well... Tell me again how lightning without that fragile central post is just as fragile as micro-usb that has one? Run it through your mind. Do you see where you didn't address my point? Still no? Well there is an expression "None are so blind as those who refuse to see" that applies.
I don't know what is is with micro-USB that gives it cult status as you have refused to answer every time I asked.
Clearly you're willing to live with crap as long as Apple (hope I didn't scare you there with that name, you flinch every time I use it) doesn't control it. Except that that's not true either, a connector similar to micro-jack could fairly easily be adapted to the task, isn't controlled by you know who (let you off easy this time), but you object to that too for equally feeble reasons.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
This is exactly why the EU needs to step in. A quality micro USB connector is pennies in volume, so at best they can only be saving a tiny amount by not fitting one. On the other hand they do sell a charging adapter which costs more than the phone.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
And look where the crackberry is now. Seem standards slipped.
As for fragile, all non-Apple Lightning connectors will all break at Apple's whim. They've done it before, and they'll do it again. That's not acceptable. Sorry fanboi, I don't worship at the church of Jobs.
As for your other suggestion, I hope to God you're not an engineer!
I did answer, but you can't see the answers I gave because your ego is in the way.
*PLONK*
These connectors all negotiate with the charger before drawing power, so I think it'd still be fine, or at least could be made to work. It's not like these devices are sub-$20 and it's critical to save 5 cents on the socket - we should be standardizing on what's best for the humans, not what's easiest for the machines. We're smart enough to build the machines that way, if we just stop accepting that technology is hard to use.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
No. They are limited to 100mA until they negotiate for more. If they got NO power before negotiating, they'd have to have a battery to power them through the negotiation process. The exception is charging ports that can provide full power if the right pins are shorted together (but that only makes things worse for your case). They all still need ground to engage first and break last.
The phones are not sub $20, but the chargers and many other devices that might be powered ARE. Remember, whatever complex negotiation you want to add here will apply to the charger as well as the phone. There's a reason there are so many power only USB chargers that skip all negotiation and just provide 5V at full current all the time.
It's also worth considering that due to USB being a mature standard, there are already bazillions (a highly technical term) of potential charge ports out there already. In the data center, I use any convenient server. On the road, my laptop. At home, a spare powered USB hub. In the car, a USB charge adapter for the cigarette lighter. All dirt cheap options because USB is everywhere.
I don't want to throw those advantages away just because a few vendors made out of spec fragile USB connectors.
Lol, as opposed to revisionist history, causation/correlation errors, and argument by make-believe which seems to be your preferred method.
I like how you and your ilk claim anyone who argues against any sort of needless, petty government interference (extra large sodas, bans on tobacco products, bans on talking on phones on plans because it's 'annoying', forcing silly mandates like the USB mandate down people's throats, etc...) is 'libertarian'.
It's even less meaningful that the other fucking tards who claim any sort of government program is "soshlism". You dumbasses are peas in a pod.
Lol, lie much? http://www.nokia.com/gb-en/pho...
What’s in the box...Nokia charger adaptor (CA-146C)
Second, I don't live anywhere near Great Britain. All I got was the micro-usb cable.
Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.