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China May Build an Undersea Train To America
New submitter howtokilltime sends this news from the Washington Post: "China is planning to build a train line that would, in theory, connect Beijing to the United States. According to a report in the Beijing Times, citing an expert at the Chinese Academy of Engineering, Chinese officials are considering a route that would start in the country's northeast, thread through eastern Siberia and cross the Bering Strait via a 125-mile long underwater tunnel into Alaska."
In the days of terrorists what could go possibly wrong with a 125-mile long underwater tunnel?
The title makes it sound like it would be under water the whole way. Obviously that is wrong
Also, Russia has talked of doing this to move freight for YEARS, so its one of those 'see it to believe it' deals
Right after we build the Hyperloop, send people to Mars and 3D print a house with a car parked in the garage.
Not America proper. You had us worried for a minute there, guys.
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Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
This project, a bridge tunnel between Alaska and either Russia or China, has been discussed for decades. It would be an awesome idea and a massive undertaking. To date, no one has actually done it because of the easy access to air travel, cheap ocean freight, and the expense of building a 100+ mile bridge in some of the harshest environment known to man.
World wide, 20 minutes or less?
It seems like building the railroad to the Berring Straight, and then using a ferry to cross would be the more practical approach. Can you imagine having a train fire half-way between Russia and the Alaska? The evacuation plans would be insane. On the other hand, high-speed rail up to the Straight and then a robust ferry system would be almost certainly cheaper, and would only add a bit of time to the overall route.
Blast my spelling, it's Bering Strait!
They've got the money and the manpower. Nationalism is the only resource that lack of may stop them. Projects such as these and their moon base plans are money well spent.
but it's just an accident waiting to happen
Over in Boston, they spent a decade on The Big Dig, a 'measly' 3.5 mile underground tunnel to try to deal with their traffic issue. The price tag was roughly 22 billion (when interest is factored in). It had several major lawsuits, mostly notably the epoxy used to hold up the ceiling tiles collapsing literally crushing a driver. In addition, it has some 400 leaks that will steadily destroy the tunnel.
And they want to make a tunnel 36 times longer? Take a country that isn't particularly concerned with safety and a trillion dollar project and tell me cutting corners isn't going to happen.
Are they building this tunnel to move cargo less efficiently than a cargo ship or to move people less efficiently than an airliner?
This was an actual thing on Seaquest DSV.
Though in practicality, the bering straight crossing gets proposed every year by Russia or some other billionaire in Asia-Pacific, but never from the US side.
There are plenty of technical problems but I think the founding problem is that we, as humans, have not mastered the sea, there's no undersea colonies, therefor there is no practical reason to have an undersea transportation network. You think oil spills are a bad idea, and derailments are a fact of life, imagine what would happen if there was a transpacific or transatlantic crossing that was treated exactly the same way. One fuckup and the entire line is destroyed. Ask the cities that have transport tunnels why they haven't built any more. A) Cost, B) in case of fire, die quietly.
They won because they planted seeds of fear. From the looks of it, those seeds of fear have fully bloomed.
This is a ridiculous project and will never get build. There are far cheaper and far more practical ways to get people to and from China/America.
All that being said, if they do waste lots of money building this, I'll be one of the first on it. It sounds like it would be the best train ride on earth!
Is there any Chinese propaganda that Slashdot won't breathlessly repeat?
Newly compiled Russian and U.S. seismological data support an independent Bering block in motion relative to the North American plate. This motion is likely to be driven by the westward extrusion of southwestern Alaska, resulting from compression in southern Alaska due to subduction of the Pacific plate and terrane accretion. Seismicity extends from central Alaska, through the Bering Strait, and into Chukotka. In eastern Chukotka several southwest trends are evident, some of which continue through the Koryak Highlands to Kamchatka. The seismicity outlines the Bering block, which includes most of the Bering Sea, Chukchi Peninsula, Seward Peninsula, and parts of western Alaska. Focal mechanisms, young basaltic volcanism, and normal faults in western Alaska and Chukotka indicate that the Bering Strait is under northeast-southwest extension. This, in conjunction with thrust faulting in the Koryak Highlands, indicates that the Bering block is rotating clockwise relative to the North American plate.
http://geology.gsapubs.org/con...
Also the Aleutian islands are quite active, that entire area is active.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Facepalm! Good idea, let's build a tunnel on the sea floor that crosses tectonic plates, what could go wrong? http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media...
For freight, you're absolutely right. When "the slow boat from China" is fast enough, cntainer ships are absolutely the most economical approach. For passengers though, a high-speed rail link between continents might make sense. For international business in 2050 it might be economical... although I am not sure how it might compete with the future versions of the Airbus A380 or Boeing 787...
That is one heck of a pipe they are talking about. I won't be using such a tunnel and I'll bet that it would be a financial blunder and practical nightmare. Does any American actually want such a tunnel?
Planes are faster, cheaper, and safer for passenger traffic at that distance.
Possibly they want the underwater tunnel for cargo trains? Then you're competing with container ships which are themselves very cheap though possibly not as fast.
The only way a train beats a plane is if the tunnel is a vacuum. And that radically complicates the engineering especially if you're putting it under the ocean.
And that doesn't even address the political problems.
Tensions with china are increasing and then you have this train going through Russian territory which has its own problems.
So... why would we build the train? Yes the chinese are saying they're paying for it. Great. But its going to go through our territory and give the Chinese physical access to the whole route. Why would we give them that for something which appears pointless and doomed?
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
What is the point of a passenger train to Alaska? There is not even a pasenger train from LA to Anchorage. From what I have seen there is only bus/plane/ferry travel from USA to Alaska.
Earthquake = non-project
The concept of an overland connection crossing the Bering Strait goes back before the 20th century. William Gilpin, first governor of the Colorado Territory, envisioned a vast ''Cosmopolitan Railway'' in 1890 linking the entire world via a series of railways. Two years later, Joseph Strauss, who went on to design over 400 bridges, including the Golden Gate Bridge, put forward the first proposal for a Bering Strait railroad bridge in his senior thesis. The project was presented to the government of the Russian Empire, but it was rejected.
A syndicate of American railroad magnates proposed in 1904 (via a French spokesman) a Siberian-Alaskan railroad from Cape Prince Wales in Alaska through a tunnel under the Bering Strait and across northeastern Siberia to Irkutsk via Cape Deshnev, Verkhnekolymsk and Yakutsk. The proposal was for a 90-year lease, and exclusive mineral rights for 8 miles (13 km) each side of the right-of-way. It was debated by officials and finally turned down on March 20, 1907.
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Aside from the obvious technical challenges of building two 40-kilometre (25 mi) bridges or a more than 80-kilometre (50 mi) tunnel across the strait, another major challenge is that, as of 2011, there is nothing on either side of the Bering Strait to connect the bridge to.
The Russian side, in particular, is severely lacking in infrastructure, without any highways for almost 2,000 kilometres (1,200 mi) (the nearest is M56) and no railroads or paved highways for over 3,200 kilometres (2,000 mi) in any direction from the strait.
On the American side, at least 800 kilometres (500 mi) of highways or railways would have to be constructed in order to connect to the American transport network
Bering Strait crossing
I rather like the status quo where they need a usable navy to get to resources that they will eventually want to take by force. They're about out of fresh water and other key resources aren't far behind.
This faces the same problem that a cross-Bering rail connection would have: "And then what?" Alaska doesn't have a particularly robust rail network (the tunnel would have to go all the way to Anchorage), and what it does have doesn't leave the state; there are no connections to Canada, let alone to the 48.
Anyone or anything that arrives by tunnel would immediately have to get onto a truck, bus, ship or plane. Unless China sees that much of an untapped market in Anchorage and Fairbanks.
This would provide Asia more access to Alaska than most US citizens in the lower 48. Alaska is not for sale!
Could they build a tunnel as a long conduit on the sea floor, perhaps giving it some flexibility to deal with the seismic activity in that area?
If the Americans do not respond, then their fate will be that of the Soviets who fled from Afghanistan to deal with their military defeat, political breakup, ideological downfall, and economic bankruptcy.
military defeat: score 0
political breakup: Score 0.5 - our political polarization is damn close to a breakup.
ideological downfall: score 1 - yep conservative, liberal, everyone is disgusted
economic bankruptcy: score 0.5 - came damn close in '08
Well, so far Osama is 2 for 4.
Here's the sad part, we did it to ourselves. All he did was push the right buttons and showed what a stupid people we are.
Everyone who "feels" safer with DHS and our police state is at fault. As well as the actors - like the NSA - they are in Osama's plan.
Everyone who is clinging to political ideology is at fault.
And everyone who is in deep with our consumerist-oil guzzling society is at fault.
With well known, Chinese workmanship quality!
I wonder who, in a good mental health,
would ride in this train, bellow the ocean....
I don't.!!!!!!
This makes little or no sense. Ship transport is many times cheaper than trains and, given how awful the weather can be up Alaska way, any time savings would not be reliable. It makes even less sense with the enlarged locks for the Panama Canal.
. . . Where George W. Bush is a hero. You will be modded down.
The last time we had a bridge up there, the USA was invaded by Siberians! Come on, Americans, get your heads out of your butts and fight back!
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
In a head 5pinning
funny how Deep Injections Fracking wells do essentially the same thing as a theoretical earthquake machine
remember the "US Navy Flood Map"?
http://earthshiftx.com/wp-cont...
Now correlate to where fracking has been alllowed...
Thank you Dave Raggett
Great. So China can, what, use it to infiltrate the U.S. with it's agents more readily? Will it be high-capacity so that when the day comes they want to openly invade with ground troops, they can use it to first establish a beachhead here, then use it to transport more troops to invade an occupy us? Or are they going to use it to transport more toxic shit to poison us, ruin our homes, and kill our pets? Fuck that shit, fuck China, fuck the whole thing.
No, they won't. Just because it can be done doesn't mean it should, or will. Alaska is too far away and it would cost too much. China won't build it, Russia won't build it and we won't build it.
I don't think the entire line needs to be a mag lev train but the connection between continents should be. The trip under the straight should be a short as possible with a little noise as possible.
Author, when pigs fly.
On one hand, you can look at this and wonder why anyone would want to undertake the incredible expense of a sub oceanic tunnel across the Bering Strait. What, with Anchorage already housing one of the world's busiest international airports, particularly for cargo aircraft.
However, completion of such a tunnel would have profound, long-reaching consequences, both negative and positive:
Chinese manufactured goods would presumably have shipping time cut in half. Even given the considerable distances, a 2km long freight train maintaining 110 km/h is a wee bit faster than a stacked & loaded Maersk container ship wallowing across the girth of the Pacific at a leisurely 20 km/h, and those trains can be run back to back separated only by a few km with basic logistics tools.
Rail and Trucking distribution arteries from Alaska down to the lower 48 would become among the busiest in the world.
American manufacturing jobs would be murdered. Already bled nearly to death, the ability to Skype an engineer in Guangdong, email schematics and have 14 boxcars of finished goods on your back dock in less than 2 weeks would be a deathblow to a lot of American jobs.
The economies of the U.S. and China would become increasingly tightly woven together, possibly creating a stabilizing effect diminishing the possibility of armed conflict - essentially the draft purpose of the European Union, after Germany went out on two world tours. The U.S. would be the loser in this scenario, as Chinas ascendancy would only continue on the world stage, while the U.S. ability to project and maintain power would suffer in the face of a diminished economy.
Americas incredible military would become unaffordable, and go through many rounds of contractions, until the U.S ends up a peer to countries like Russia or combined UK, FR and Germany - regionally powerful, globally insignificant.
So essentially this tunnel represents another step in a trade arrangement largely favoring only one partner, leading the other to contract, economy foundering, military eventually becoming unsustainable at current levels, heading into France-like levels of global insignificance excepting cultural impact.
Rome 2.0
THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK.
China wants revenge on America? Problem solved.
From a fair challenge like a chickenshit blowhard http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
From a fair challenge like a chickenshit blowhard http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
when Neil Armstrong and Edwin Aldrin, both White males, took selfies on the moon.
At the time, it was protested by Black activists, claiming that the money would have been better spent on uplifting the Black community.
Since then, America has made every effort to uplift the Black community - not just Section 8 and EBT, but affirmative action anywhere, that few can breathe a word against lest they lose their jobs.
As long as Americans have these priorities, they're not building anything.
I wonder how that will change the labor dynamics if we're just a 48 hour train ride to China? The best part is watching Ameicans labor on the train just like the Chinese did when we built the transcontinental railroad. :-) Payback? :-)
ask the Nazis
The Trans-Siberian Raylway, the Northern Route, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T... is almost reaching Yakutsk already http://osm.org/go/8_CbR-?m=
It is actively constructed.
OH NO! I know what's really happening. They're using it to steal our slightly better air! They'll pump it in rather than giving citizens the "novelty" of bagged air during the worst of their smog attacks.
Fucking thieving bastards!
They don't exactly buy software, they pirate it. They don't buy cars, since they manufacture their own and quality isn't actually better in USA cars. Food? There's only so much soy the USA can export to China at interesting prices. China is buying up the entire USA economy and buying shares in lots of companies.just like Japan and Arabian Oil states have been doing in the past. Sorry, but the USA doesn't really produce a lot of goods that other countries are interested in any more. If anything, China buys raw ores, fuel and such, not finished products.
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
numerous stories or novels contain a world war (ww3, final war, apocalyptic, etc, etc) of some sort that starts with a chinese (with or without other asian/middle east allies) invasion of north america by way of alaska and the bering strait..
be afraid, be very afraid.
Will our laws and regulations put up with the notorious quality of chinese mega engineering?
if you go undersea, just go underneat.
Let me add to this with a reminder for readers.
China first started making things for other countries as a mode of defense thousands of years ago.
Instead of spending money on standing armies, resources are spent on supporting economic dependence from other countries. This is more efficient. It is also less open to abuse.
The USA points out that this defensive move can be abused. It can be - but at cost. At least it is skewed towards the defensive. I'm not saying to be complacent. China plans 100's years ahead while we only have rich families planning ahead. America is not a million miles away with the petrodollar.
Propaganda or not, the poetic image of literally building a bridge between east and west (which are currently in economic war over natural gas in Ukraine) should not be lost in this discussion.
My god, how can that be overlooked? What are we to miss that!?
A blog I run for the wealth
Alaska, Canada and the US did a feasibility study in 2007 for connecting Fairbanks and Anchorage to the US by rail:
http://alaskacanadarail.com/in...
The Phase I report there refers to a "Nominal US$11 billion investment". This is only for connecting Anchorage to the US by rail. There has been no followup on this since 2007 that I am aware of. There are 521 miles of utterly undeveloped and unpopulated terrain between Nome and Fairbanks that includes 65 miles of mountains, 185 miles of wetlands, and the Yukon river. Just building a road between Fairbanks and Nome was estimated to cost $27 billion in 2010.
My family's small business in Fairbanks would inevitably be very much involved in any project to build railroads anywhere in Western Alaska, and there has been absolutely no indication that either the Alaskan government or the US government has ever had the slightest interest in building so much as a dirt road in that direction, much less a multi-continental railroad.
From a fair challenge like a chickenshit blowhard http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
From a fair challenge like a chickenshit blowhard http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
WAFJ! Let them! This will hasten the demise of their economic, house of cards.
Event he Alaska Railroad doesn't have a physical connection to the lower 48 states. Train cars to and from the Alaska Railroad are barged in via Seattle.
So, the underwater part would be across the Bering Strait, rather than the Pacific Ocean. Thus ends any chance of a quip about reality providing a sequel to Harry Harrison's alternate history, "A Transatlantic Tunnel, Hurrah!".
Instead, a question: Is that near the part of Alaska that doesn't get big earthquakes, and is far far away from the part that does? If not, I'm not riding on that train.
There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
With the current tensions from Russia and China's relations with the west not being so perfect. I am not sure what's the US views on having a high speed link between the two countries?
From a fair challenge like a chickenshit blowhard http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
From a fair challenge like a chickenshit blowhard http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
Using illogical offtopic ad hominem attacks (post parent to apk) http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
Is that true? i saw this on many sites. http://www.colombocitylife.com/2014/05/china-to-build-under-sea-train-to-america.html