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For Half, Degrees In Computing, Math, Or Stats Lead To Other Jobs
dcblogs (1096431) writes The Census Bureau reports that only 26% of people with any type of four-year STEM degree are working in a STEM field. For those with a degree specifically in computer, math or statistics, the figure is 49%, nearly the same for engineering degrees. What happens to the other STEM trained workers? The largest numbers are managers at non-STEM businesses (22.5%), or having careers in education (17.7%), business/finance (13.2%) and office support (11.5%). Some other data points: Among those with college degrees in computer-related occupations, men are paid more than women ($90,354 vs. $78,859 on average), and African American workers are more likely to be unemployed than white or Asian workers.
Around half of STEM workers have no four year degree, to me that is more interesting.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
My degree is in Computer Engineering, with some Master's work in Comp Sci...
And these days I mostly work system accreditation. That is, certifying that a given system is secure. I do relatively little of the tech work, but push a lot of paper.
I like you, Stuart. You're not like everyone else, here, at Slashdot.
As usual, jumping to conclusions with incomplete data.
First, why analyze the percentage of computer and math degree holders who hold an IT job? Why is a mathematics degree automatically equivalent to a CS degree?
Then we get leaps like the pay gap between men and women. Most likely it's the usual thing: comparing men and women of the same age, without accounting for the fact that the women took more time off for child-rearing, worked part-time, etc.. Compensate for these things, and watch the pay gap disappear.
Why do many people with STEM degrees not work in STEM jobs? They apparently count management and education as non-STEM, even if these people are managing STEM projects or teaching STEM courses. That already accounts for the two biggest groups.
The rest of the conclusions are just as shaky. This appears to be a crappy study, deserving of no attention whatsoever...
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
That's because they keep getting people on foreign visas to do the work cheaper and not hiring expensive Americans. I can't imagine the workload gets done at the same rate considering the language barrier. Maybe the industry will get a freaking clue just like call centers did. They're all back in the US because as it turns out, paying someone $3/hr in India to take phone calls that take 3x longer is the same as paying someone in the US $9/hr to make the phone call 3x faster. Only one of those two pisses off your customers so now all the call centers are back here in the US. Hopefully they realize that hiring American STEM workers has a lower total cost vs work done than hiring overseas workers.
Their degree is in Double Quarter Pounder with Cheese.
Do you want fries with that?
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Its natural that men are currently being paid more then women. When 75% of the positions are held by men, a higher percentage would have worked years longer then a women.
The lure of a liberal arts degree has always been to have a very well rounded education that just makes you a smarter person instead of just teaching a certain profession. In today's technological world, STEM education is performing a very similar role. Learning high level math provides extreme advances in our current economy regardless of your actual job.
Hopefully colleges start to understand this and increase the level of math that all college graduates are required to learn. Perhaps in 20 years the average Gen Ed requirements of a Bachelors will require 20+ credits of math related courses to help prepare students for the modern world.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
That has always been true. The share is even higher for other degrees. Probably 70 percent with degrees in Liberal Arts lead to other jobs -- waiting on tables, for instance.
Proverbs 21:19
The STEM label mushes together computing fields and engineering, which have high pay and demand for jobs, with the sciences, which to be completely honest with you don't pay that great and have about a twenty to one candidate to job ratio. What would the result be like if we split them, I wonder?
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
50% of STEM workers have no degree 50% of SETM degree'd folks don't work in STEM ...yet somehow corporations "need" H1-Bs?
And you know what? I bet the same holds true of accouting, finance, marketing and certainly humanities degrees too.
Mine was 3 years. BSc Mechanical Engineering, graduated in 1975.
Been writing software ever since and will do until I retire next month.
Based on the my own experience, the reaction from people when they discover I have a Math(s)/CS degree.
And who doesn't want to hire smart employees?
Well, as long as you don't appear lazy or offensive during the interview process.
And I'd guess Math/CS graduates are least likely to be working in customer service or similar customer oriented jobs for a variety of factors including interpersonal skills/ strength/ comfort.
Because the majority of the people getting CS degrees now-a-days have no idea what they are doing.
And I don't mean, they just aren't good. I mean they barely even know how to type.
I worked with a guy a while back that was given 4 projects in a row and did absolutely no work on them. I liked the guy personally so he felt safe in asking me questions... He didn't even know how to define a variable or call an Object in the Language he specialized in. And I've met LOTS of people like that. He was probably the worst, but the quality of people with degrees in programming is awful. I'm not sure if it's just because it's something really hard to test for or if cheating is rampant. But there is definitely a problem. Most of the people I work with that don't have a degree and had to claw their way up are a lot better than the people that have 4yr degrees.
Also, programming jobs don't pay crap anymore. Managers at McDonalds make about the same as entry level program jobs.
We have fewer engineering jobs in the US then we did 20 years ago.
That's the stat that matters. End of discussion.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Sorry, you've called out the African Americans, white, asian.. what about Black, Afro-Carribean, African, Arab workers? What about hispanics, European-American, Irish American, the "My great grandfather had a niece whose mother's great uncle was Scottish"-American?
Fuck you and your racist focus. Try breaking down employment by social background, place of abode and other factors before throwing racial fucking stereotypes at us.
well rounded cool but not at today's price levels.
In the past when you where able to work part time and go to school without big loans all of that well rounded stuff was ok. But now days the costs are to high and people need to learn more hands on skills in IT in school. Why should be forced to take an PE class at a cost that is way more then BUYING a 2 YEAR fitness club membership.
Seven years of inflation is at least 15%. Depending on whose stats you use.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
"STEM trained workers? "
They have degree in the field, not 'trained workers'.
You can have a BS Mathematics, and go into a number of fields that aren't specific to mathematics.
You think you get a degree in Mathematics and then go to the mathematics factory and churn out maths?
Plus, you can get a degree in something simply because it interests you, and not because you want a career in that field.
University is not job training. Please stop treating it as such.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Have gnu, will travel.
Why are you comparing "PE" in a 4 year degree to a fitness club? It's a full on class where you spend most of your time learning in a lecture hall. As for "hands on" skills, so many people that learn these "skills", but only know exactly what they were taught and nothing more. Those "hands on" skills have expiration dates when the technology changes. If you really want to learn something useful, learn they theory behind those skills. While theory and "hands on" skills can both be learned, most places tend to focus on one or the other and theory is much more important.
Talking about the non theory classes that are pure filler and fluff that are Not part of your core or gen edu's. can be replaced with classes that cover the more hands on parts of your core classes.
And comparing the cost of just one forced "PE" class (some schools want to have more then just 1) in a degree to the MUCH LOWER COST of a 2 YEAR fitness club membership that is OPEN 24 hours a day as well.
Four year math/science degrees- nigh-useless. In terms of job marketability, they are great for getting into grad school, and PhDs (or MDs, for bio) in most of those fields (save math) will then open up great job possibilities.
CS should clearly be grouped with engineering in this respect; a bachelor's in CS is really a software engineering degree.
Grouping them all together does a disservice to both sides and makes articles like these the worst kind of distortion and fear-mongering.
Is this supposed to be a bad thing? Why? This post seems to imply that your entire career should be determined by your major in college. Thank goodness that isn't true. How many people really know what they want to do at age 20? Lots of people change fields several times over their careers.
"I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
This data is grossly afflicted by the pre-med failures who didn't get to med school and now have a bachelors in chemistry or biology, which is not very employable in those fields. What isn't stated is if the doctors are counted as "in" or "out" of STEM fields.
A degree will not transform someone who isn't cut out for programming into a programmer. Furthermore, people who are cut out for programming can be very effective at it without a degree. However, a degree can make a good already-cut-out-for-it programmer into a really great already-cut-out-for-it programmer.
Of course the women and blacks make less...they were given affirmative action on college admissions and college scholarships.
The travesty is that they do not have to pay reparations to those of us that were discriminated against.
I was born Native American, but have always refused any preference or entitlement. I will earn my way, or starve trying. I do demand just compensation from the racists and sexists who gave or accepted any preference.
As usual, jumping to conclusions with incomplete data.
You don't seriously expect people to read beyond the article title before jumping into the comments?
One has to recall who is probably the most financially-successful mathematics graduate in the US is: Michael Jordan! Sometimes moving to another field does pay more.