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For Half, Degrees In Computing, Math, Or Stats Lead To Other Jobs
dcblogs (1096431) writes The Census Bureau reports that only 26% of people with any type of four-year STEM degree are working in a STEM field. For those with a degree specifically in computer, math or statistics, the figure is 49%, nearly the same for engineering degrees. What happens to the other STEM trained workers? The largest numbers are managers at non-STEM businesses (22.5%), or having careers in education (17.7%), business/finance (13.2%) and office support (11.5%). Some other data points: Among those with college degrees in computer-related occupations, men are paid more than women ($90,354 vs. $78,859 on average), and African American workers are more likely to be unemployed than white or Asian workers.
Around half of STEM workers have no four year degree, to me that is more interesting.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
My degree is in Computer Engineering, with some Master's work in Comp Sci...
And these days I mostly work system accreditation. That is, certifying that a given system is secure. I do relatively little of the tech work, but push a lot of paper.
I like you, Stuart. You're not like everyone else, here, at Slashdot.
As usual, jumping to conclusions with incomplete data.
First, why analyze the percentage of computer and math degree holders who hold an IT job? Why is a mathematics degree automatically equivalent to a CS degree?
Then we get leaps like the pay gap between men and women. Most likely it's the usual thing: comparing men and women of the same age, without accounting for the fact that the women took more time off for child-rearing, worked part-time, etc.. Compensate for these things, and watch the pay gap disappear.
Why do many people with STEM degrees not work in STEM jobs? They apparently count management and education as non-STEM, even if these people are managing STEM projects or teaching STEM courses. That already accounts for the two biggest groups.
The rest of the conclusions are just as shaky. This appears to be a crappy study, deserving of no attention whatsoever...
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Their degree is in Double Quarter Pounder with Cheese.
Do you want fries with that?
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The lure of a liberal arts degree has always been to have a very well rounded education that just makes you a smarter person instead of just teaching a certain profession. In today's technological world, STEM education is performing a very similar role. Learning high level math provides extreme advances in our current economy regardless of your actual job.
Hopefully colleges start to understand this and increase the level of math that all college graduates are required to learn. Perhaps in 20 years the average Gen Ed requirements of a Bachelors will require 20+ credits of math related courses to help prepare students for the modern world.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
That has always been true. The share is even higher for other degrees. Probably 70 percent with degrees in Liberal Arts lead to other jobs -- waiting on tables, for instance.
Proverbs 21:19
The STEM label mushes together computing fields and engineering, which have high pay and demand for jobs, with the sciences, which to be completely honest with you don't pay that great and have about a twenty to one candidate to job ratio. What would the result be like if we split them, I wonder?
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
Logical, but probably not the case; surveys matching career stage and field put the male-female wage gap on the order of 10%, which is in line with these results. (I forget the exact amount; it's likely to be a little more.)
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
50% of STEM workers have no degree 50% of SETM degree'd folks don't work in STEM ...yet somehow corporations "need" H1-Bs?
And you know what? I bet the same holds true of accouting, finance, marketing and certainly humanities degrees too.
Because the majority of the people getting CS degrees now-a-days have no idea what they are doing.
And I don't mean, they just aren't good. I mean they barely even know how to type.
I worked with a guy a while back that was given 4 projects in a row and did absolutely no work on them. I liked the guy personally so he felt safe in asking me questions... He didn't even know how to define a variable or call an Object in the Language he specialized in. And I've met LOTS of people like that. He was probably the worst, but the quality of people with degrees in programming is awful. I'm not sure if it's just because it's something really hard to test for or if cheating is rampant. But there is definitely a problem. Most of the people I work with that don't have a degree and had to claw their way up are a lot better than the people that have 4yr degrees.
Also, programming jobs don't pay crap anymore. Managers at McDonalds make about the same as entry level program jobs.
We have fewer engineering jobs in the US then we did 20 years ago.
That's the stat that matters. End of discussion.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Sorry, you've called out the African Americans, white, asian.. what about Black, Afro-Carribean, African, Arab workers? What about hispanics, European-American, Irish American, the "My great grandfather had a niece whose mother's great uncle was Scottish"-American?
Fuck you and your racist focus. Try breaking down employment by social background, place of abode and other factors before throwing racial fucking stereotypes at us.
well rounded cool but not at today's price levels.
In the past when you where able to work part time and go to school without big loans all of that well rounded stuff was ok. But now days the costs are to high and people need to learn more hands on skills in IT in school. Why should be forced to take an PE class at a cost that is way more then BUYING a 2 YEAR fitness club membership.
Logical, but probably not the case; surveys matching career stage and field put the male-female wage gap on the order of 10%, which is in line with these results. (I forget the exact amount; it's likely to be a little more.)
Depending on how "career stage" is measured, the value may still be skewed due to the greater tendency for females to take years off for family care, etc. When returning to work, she may have to take a pay cut due to percieved "staleness" of her knowledge. This was the case for my wife and I (both engineers). She made more than I did before she quit to raise our kids. Ten years later, she could not hire back in at the same wage she left at, due to the employment gap. So even if you evaluate "career stage" as years-of-experience in an attempt to account for the time shift, her wage is now lower that mine at that same numbers of years. No discrimination necessary, just cause and effect of choices made.
In fact, I would guess that I would have had a harder time getting hired at all if I had the same employment gap. Society is more forgiving of gaps in a woman's employment (for family care) than for a man doing the same.
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Seven years of inflation is at least 15%. Depending on whose stats you use.
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"STEM trained workers? "
They have degree in the field, not 'trained workers'.
You can have a BS Mathematics, and go into a number of fields that aren't specific to mathematics.
You think you get a degree in Mathematics and then go to the mathematics factory and churn out maths?
Plus, you can get a degree in something simply because it interests you, and not because you want a career in that field.
University is not job training. Please stop treating it as such.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Have gnu, will travel.
If they have a foreign visa, then that means they are living in America, working in America, and paying American taxes. The question is, why are they willing to accept less pay than an American citizen if they have all the same expenses as an American? They may (most likely?) have less student loans, but other than that, there's no reason you can't live off the same wages they are. I can understand complaining about overseas workers, because in some places it's actually cheaper for just about everything, even if you buy the exact same stuff. But for foreign workers living in the same city, with the same housing options, and shopping at the same stores, if they think the job is worth the lower wages, maybe you are the one who's expecting too much.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Why are you comparing "PE" in a 4 year degree to a fitness club? It's a full on class where you spend most of your time learning in a lecture hall. As for "hands on" skills, so many people that learn these "skills", but only know exactly what they were taught and nothing more. Those "hands on" skills have expiration dates when the technology changes. If you really want to learn something useful, learn they theory behind those skills. While theory and "hands on" skills can both be learned, most places tend to focus on one or the other and theory is much more important.
Talking about the non theory classes that are pure filler and fluff that are Not part of your core or gen edu's. can be replaced with classes that cover the more hands on parts of your core classes.
And comparing the cost of just one forced "PE" class (some schools want to have more then just 1) in a degree to the MUCH LOWER COST of a 2 YEAR fitness club membership that is OPEN 24 hours a day as well.
Is this supposed to be a bad thing? Why? This post seems to imply that your entire career should be determined by your major in college. Thank goodness that isn't true. How many people really know what they want to do at age 20? Lots of people change fields several times over their careers.
"I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
uh, yeah, a Ph.D. in mathematics might once have been a death sentence, but nowadays it's more like a license to print money (almost literally, in the case of Wall Street) if you're willing to hold your nose, check your ego, and get back out of pure math.
similarly, a four year math degree from a respectable (not even necessarily great) university, coupled with the right research experience, extracurriculars, and/or job experience/internships, is a solid credential. maybe not as much of a sure bet as engineering, but pretty damned good and much better for certain specialized areas.
"They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
They may not have the same expenses as an American. Let us suppose two hypothetical workers with very similar qualifications: one an American (A), and one from some place like India or Bangladesh (B). Assuming that A and B are both single, then you are correct---they have similar expenses. Now suppose that both workers have families to support. Worker A has to support their family in the United States at the going rate here, whereas Worker B may send remittences back to their family in their country of origin, where the cost of living may be significantly less. Hence it is quite possible that a foreign worker and the American worker both want to be paid well enough to support their families. The foreign worker has the advantage of needing much less in order to do so.
Rhapsody in Numbers
As usual, jumping to conclusions with incomplete data.
You don't seriously expect people to read beyond the article title before jumping into the comments?
By that logic, people who have kids should get paid more. People should be paid based on the work they accomplish, and not on their personal circumstances. If I choose to live in a smaller house, drive a cheap car, and live a meager lifestyle does that mean I should get paid less, because I don't "need" the money?
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
he switched majors, unless you're talking about this Michael Jordan, which would be a bit dishonest. :)
"They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky