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Is the App Store Broken?

A recent post by Instapaper's Marco Arment suggests that design flaws in Apple's App Store are harming the app ecosystem, and users are suffering because of it. "The dominance and prominence of 'top lists' stratifies the top 0.02% so far above everyone else that the entire ecosystem is encouraged to design for a theoretical top-list placement that, by definition, won’t happen to 99.98% of them." Arment notes that many good app developers are finding continued development to be unsustainable, while scammy apps are encouraged to flood the market.

"As the economics get tighter, it becomes much harder to support the lavish treatment that developers have given apps in the past, such as full-time staffs, offices, pixel-perfect custom designs of every screen, frequent free updates, and completely different iPhone and iPad interfaces. Many will give up and leave for stable, better-paying jobs. (Many already have.)" Brent Simmons points out the indie developers have largely given up the dream of being able to support themselves through iOS development. Yoni Heisler argues that their plight is simply a consequence of ever-increasing competition within the industry, though he acknowledges that more app curation would be a good thing. What strategies could Apple (and the operators of other mobile application stories) do to keep app quality high?

258 comments

  1. It's not a marketplace.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's not a marketplace, it's a lottery for developers.

    1. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is actually a much better way of framing what I was coming here to say.

      They're relying on the fact that big success stories are big to continue a narrative that encourages development targeting mobile platforms. It's every bit a bubble, where people see only the positive signs of the market in the news.

      Now the reality is starting to set in(and it's not just App Store, Play Store has the same problems), and serious "investors"(developers investing time in money in app development), are pulling out. The next step of a bubble is the "pop" where everyone realizes there's not much of a market left, and flees.

    2. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by DivineKnight · · Score: 2

      Which confirms what I thought about this market all along, that it was foolish developers chasing nickels in place of dollars.

    3. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by Noah+Haders · · Score: 5, Funny

      I don't have time to reply to this post. I'm too busy playing the kim kardashian game.

    4. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      It's just reheating the American Dream: Anyone could win. Just not everyone.

      So ... yes, it's a lottery. But then again, so is the Dream.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by NatasRevol · · Score: 0

      Yeah, hate that $13 billion *developers* have made so far.

      Foolish.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    6. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      There has never been much of a market to begin with.

      Given that you can today get quite decent indie games for your computer for 5-10 bucks, flashgames-gone-iPad can't sell for more than pennies. There was a bit of money in timewaster games, games you can pick up and put down at the spur of the moment as you have to kill a little time, waiting in line, waiting for the bus or waiting for your girlfriend to stop talking.

      The problem is that these games are rather easy to make and that only the first handful of people who had the idea to do so actually had a market to speak of. After the flood of copycat games drowned everyone, nobody really could make more than a handful of bucks out of the 99 cent game fad.

      The next step now are free-2-play, pay-2-stay games. Games that are "free" but require you to spend money (and often quite ridiculous amounts thereof) to keep playing. Considering that I now even start to see TV ads for them, I dare say that they, too, are no longer something an indie game maker can try his hand at, considering that very obviously the game mafia has cornered that market already.

      So, essentially, I'd say indie games on phones are over. Get over to Steam, there seems to be a market for indie games left.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    7. Re: It's not a marketplace.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The digital version of "the American dream".
      It takes more than skills and a good idea, it also takes luck. And the odds are getting worse every day if you haven't made it already.

    8. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Yeah, hate that $13 billion *developers* have made so far.

      That money's been spent a long time ago. A lot of it on development of more apps that have not been profitable.

      Assuming your figure of "$13billion" is correct, of course.

      Anyway, this article is about the marketplace, not about the relative handful who have scored big on an app, then hired a staff, invested in their businesses, took venture capital and private equity and now are well and truly fucked.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    9. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      Or, more correctly - you can't just develop an app. You must market your app too.

      Too many of the big guys got there because they got in early. Then everyone assumes "if you build it, they will come", but no, you have to advertise it, market it, or like obscure FOSS projects, no one knows about it.

      It's just like everything else - doesn't matter if it's Apple's App Store, Google Play, Steam, Xbox Live Market, Playstation Network, etc. Just putting it on there isn't enough - you have to get word out there.

      Perhaps the worst part is, developers really do NOT know how to market. Or they think they're above it - "I hate advertising, and everyone blocks ads, so it's pointless". Well, if people don't know, they can't find it.

      For iOS, there's a neat service called Appshopper.com, and it pulls new apps from the app store. There's easily over 100 pages of NEW apps every day. Relying on "stumble upon" traffic isn't going to happen.

    10. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by smaddox · · Score: 1

      I thought the American Dream was a house with a lawn, a wife, 2.5 kids, and a dog. When did it become hitting the lottery?

    11. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by timeOday · · Score: 2
      Any marketplace of infinitely scalable production is a lottery!

      Before music recordings, if you wanted to hear music, somebody had to play it. A more popular musician could make somewhat more than an average musician - maybe substantially more - but the top handful couldn't entertain the entire planet singlehandedly. Now they can. The economy of agrarian farmers - where a 20% more productive farmer makes 20% more money - is over. Now it's winner-takes-all.

    12. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by timeOday · · Score: 3, Informative

      There are various "dreams" of course, but the Gold Rush mentality has always been strong in US culture. Our current top marginal tax rates certainly support that assertion - average people pay dearly in real money to protect their fantasy future-self.

    13. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by paiute · · Score: 1

      I thought the American Dream was a house with a lawn, a wife, 2.5 kids, and a dog. When did it become hitting the lottery?

      When the middle class went extinct.

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    14. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by ozmanjusri · · Score: 1

      Which confirms what I thought about this market all along, that it was foolish developers chasing nickels in place of dollars.

      And I'm fine with that, as long as the market remains a competitive Darwinian pool.

      The nature of any rapidly expanding ecosystem is that there will be a multiplicity of variously capable denizens that'll be culled to the fittest survivors, particularly as resources become scarcer. Apple's app store is transitioning from that explosive expansion phase and is now hitting the resource ($) limits as iOS loses ground against their competitors. Other app stores will follow suit as they also reach saturation point, and that's - potentially - a good thing.

      The only reason it could become a negative is if App store owner/managers promote products for their own reasons instead of letting competition cull the weakest.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    15. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by chmod+a+x+mojo · · Score: 2

      The next step of a bubble is the "pop" where everyone realizes there's not much of a market left, and flees.

      Well, only the get rich quick hunters will flee. The ones that stay will be the ones that realise that providing something "boring" but essential are the ones that will make it big and stay on top, just so long as they aren't sleeping at the wheel and let someone else do it better.
      That, and those who are dedicated to making good games / timewaster applications that people will actually want to play... not just the floods of "me too" copy apps.

      --
      To err is human; effective mayhem requires the root password!
    16. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Your theory would be plausible except that investors are pouring in not out as they are getting terrific returns on investment.

    17. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by Grizzley9 · · Score: 1

      It's not a marketplace, it's a lottery for developers.

      Quite true and one where you have to make something that likely already exists.

      Besides games, I haven't downloaded a new app in a long time. Most of the ones I have and use are mature and do their function well. There was a wild time when many functions and app types weren't yet developed but now? Not everything has been invented, but most categories are fairly mature and there is less and less room for groundbreaking apps for the overall market (still plenty for niche markets).

    18. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by putaro · · Score: 1

      Apple claims developers have made $15B since 2008. That's 6 years. If you divided it out equally, that $2.5B per year. In contrast, Adobe alone takes in $4B a year in revenues. Even if you assume that the market has grown substantially and 2013 developer payouts were half, that's still $7.5 billion.

      The iOS marketplace is still a lot smaller than the general software marketplace in terms of revenue thanks to the ridiculously low prices Apple has pushed on app developers.

    19. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by sg_oneill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's not a marketplace, it's a lottery for developers.

      Or at least for our clients. I cottoned on *very* early that the SAFE money isn't in the app store, but in writing apps for others. Usually poor schmucks who believe their "Floppy duck clone will corner the market if only they had a coder". At first I was pretty OK with this, after all no one else in my hometown was doing it, and I could easily clock $4K a week ($12K for 3 weeks development with contracts back to back) and dude these where pretty good apps. But after a while it sort of started to feel like I was taking people for a ride by not explaining the market to these people. In the end I decided to stop doing social networking apps simply because they almost NEVER succeed , and I started insisting that they needed to start on a marketing plan with a professional *before* the contract starts (Since marketing considerations DO in fact drive it). This was all to protect my clients and ultimately my own reputation (Sometimes when an app fails in the market the client will blame the coder and thats BAD for reputation, even if its just total unfair nonsense).

      And in the end I was lucky to get $500 a week because the work dried up as people moved to less ethical mass-production offshore developers who wouldnt say unpleasant things like "You need to spend some money on a marketing plan first" or "I dont feel comfortable spending your life savings on yet another facebook clone"

      Yeah, I work for the government now. Somehow this feels more ethical.

      --
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    20. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      When people learned that working won't get them a house that you want to live in and that one income just ain't enough to get by on, let alone when you have kids and a dog.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    21. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      first one point is spot on

      the second one misses completely that the good games/timewaster will still have to contend with the top list lottery

    22. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by EnsilZah · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'm too busy playing the kim kardashian game

      Is that some kind of euphemism?

    23. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Informative
      $13b is a big-sounding number. But it's not that big in comparison to some other numbers. For example, there were 75b downloads from the Apple App Store last month, so even if that $13b were just for the last month, not for the lifetime of the App Store, it would amount to less than 20 for each download. There are 1.2m apps available, so $13b means just over $10K per app. That's quite a lot for a week's work, but it's a pittance compared to the cost of developing a typical program, especially when you consider the earnings per year.

      Oh, and for reference, Microsoft's revenue for the last quarter was about $20b. Which makes $13b spread between 1.2m apps seem very, very small. (I'm assuming that your $13b number is just for developers selling through the Apple App Store. If it also includes Android then it's an even more laughable number).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    24. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Let me see if I can follow the bouncing ball on this one.

      1. Some guy writes an app that he had an idea for in his spare time, and it sells well.
      2. He then quits his day job and hires a bunch of people, taking on VC and private funding based on a business plan of "I had one good idea, so clearly I'm going to have unlimited good ideas, and there will never be any competition in any idea that I have"
      3. When his business plan proves to not be accurate or sustainable, he ends up in financial difficulty.

      And this is the fault of Apple / Google ? If anything, it's the fault of the VC guys for giving out money to people that have done no planning whatsoever.

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    25. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      And Adobe gets there by maintaining an effective monopoly over the entire creative industry. See: their forced migration to their subscription versions of Creative Suite for all volume license customers in June.

      Do you really think that enterprise businesses want "cloud" subscription versions ticking away at operational expense, rather than the perpetual license versions they used to be able to spend capital expense dollars on?

      Adobe finally realized that they have the balls of the world's media and advertising business in a bench vise, and that they really like money.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    26. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's odd, because I'm about to buy a house that I want to live in, and it's on one income that is enough to "get by on" if not more so.

      There's a bit of a secret to it: don't spend money on stupid fucking shit, pay off your debts early, and save up to buy the things that are important. In that order.

      Example: I have a coworker that always complains about being broke, but has no problem throwing hundreds of dollars at a new tattoo, or buying a massive TV that barely fits in his home on a credit card that he'll be paying interest on for the next two years.

      And it's not like I'm some highly paid executive or something, or incredibly privileged to get where I have. I've done it though being smarter than my competition, a hell of a lot of work, finding a niche that I excel at, and a bit of luck.

      Just because someone will mention that fourth thing, it was in far less quantity than the first three.

      Posting anonymously because I don't want to deal with the bullshit responses that are inevitable. I don't like posting all about "the glory of me", but it is still possible to make a decent middle class life if you choose what is important to you, and work for it. Only the incredibly lucky get everything in life - everyone else has to choose what is most important to them and plan accordingly.

    27. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Complete nonsense. Serious investors are in the market making money right now, and have no intention of quitting. They are why the market has become a lottery for the amateurs. Only amateurs are pulling out, because let's face it they were only "in" because they thought they could make money easier of App Store than off PC software or Mac software, and it turns out the dynamics of the App Store are just the same as any other market with winners and losers and consolidation. There's no bubble. If people flee the market with things nobody buys anyway, nobody will notice. If people flee the market with profitable products, they're dumb, but they just leave the market open to others. The idea there is no market is absolute bullshit. People are buying apps left, right and center. JUST NOT YOURS. Stop with the wishful thinking masquerading as analysis. App Store didn't fail, you did.

    28. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      And this is the fault of Apple / Google ?

      No, it's not the fault of Apple/Google. It's a feature/bug of any bubble market. If you can get in early and score, get out fast and buy real property. Then think about what you're going to do next. Not the other way around.

      I bet a lot of those app guys wish they had bought a house with their money instead of renting that warehouse and hiring their WoW clan members to develop the next big app.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    29. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      The problem is a bit more subtle than that.

      The app "gold rush" encourages people to out in untold millions of man-hours of development time to get a piece of the multi-billion action. What it doesn't say is that a huge chunk of that goes to some random guy who just got lucky (think Flappy Bird) and someone who just took a very common game idea and stuck cutesy graphics on it (Angry Birds). It also doesn't take into account that if you come up with a good idea for a game, you're likely to get cloned almost immediately, and quite possibly by Zynga, who will use their marketing muscle to push you out.

      A lot of app developers end up never even making back their Developer Programme membership fees.

      But Apple doesn't care, because their customers have a limited amount of spending money, and they're probably spending it all as it is. Given that Apple's cut is a fixed percentage, there's no financial motive for Apple to change the model. And developers are instant profit for Apple, even if they never sell a single app.

      --
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    30. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by Stele · · Score: 1

      Yikes! Put your clothes and phone in a burn barrel and take a shower immediately!

    31. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the major thing to remember is the rockstar effect. for every 1 blockbuster that can support a developer, 9 developers don't get any downloads at all. for every 1 million dollar doing awesome company started, there are 9 independents getting a decent income, and 90 develpers not get any downloads at all.

      story of every industry really.

    32. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      The app store model doesn't reward the best - there's a lot of luck involved in getting into the charts, and being in the charts is self-sustaining.

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
    33. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Adobe's net income was only $290 million last year.

      Are you sure you want to compare those two apples?

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    34. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Yeah, lets compare a 40 year old monopoly company (making money w large contracts) to a bunch of small upstart developers (making money $0.99 at a time) and laugh.

      More people are laughing at you.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    35. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you really think that enterprise businesses want "cloud" subscription versions ticking away at operational expense, rather than the perpetual license versions they used to be able to spend capital expense dollars on?

      Yes. Unless you are one of the exceedingly rare companies that sits on a giant pile of cash, capital is really fucking expensive. I'd prefer not to tie it all up in a bunch of software licenses.

    36. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, lets compare a 40 year old monopoly company (making money w large contracts) to a bunch of small upstart developers (making money $0.99 at a time) and laugh.

      Let's not. Let's compare the mobile app market to one company. The mobile app market has a number of small upstart developers making $0.99 at a time, but it also includes companies like IBM, Microsoft, Apple, Adobe, and a large number of software houses that are 20-40 years old, several of which have been on the receiving end of antitrust lawsuits.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    37. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by dave420 · · Score: 1

      You are confusing two concepts: "you" and "everyone". What is possible for you might not be for everyone else.

    38. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes it can. One just has to lower expectations. The house doesn't have to be a McMansion and/or be near the center of some trendy city where the DINKs have driven prices sky high. One also doesn't have buy or lease a new car every X years along with heaps of other luxury items that people in the 50s-70s never had either.

    39. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      By today's standard, you're rich. So am I, actually. When I look around me and consider how well I'm off compared to others...

      I can survive on one income. I also like my job and have the luxury to even choose where I want to work at, and where I simply refuse to work. I live in a rather large apartment (mostly because I couldn't find another one in the area where I CHOSE to live in).

      That's luxury today for most people. Having a CHOICE.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    40. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      Crreating apps is just something companies have to do to support their customers now-. I have been playing some good games that professionally developed but I'm not going to pay for them. The fact that I play the game and engage in PVP is enough payment--my participation adds value to their product. If you are going to create a killer app the mobile version is only going to be one aspect of it.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    41. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Apple claims developers have made $15B since 2008. That's 6 years. If you divided it out equally, that $2.5B per year. In contrast, Adobe alone takes in $4B a year in revenues. Even if you assume that the market has grown substantially and 2013 developer payouts were half, that's still $7.5 billion.

      Interesting statistics you present there. Too bad they are a little out of date: http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrogowsky/2014/07/22/apple-earnings-live/ - "developers have now made $20 billion from the App Store, nearly half in the past 12 months"

      The iOS marketplace is still a lot smaller than the general software marketplace in terms of revenue thanks to the ridiculously low prices Apple has pushed on app developers.

      I guess Apple can't win here - either they don't have enough free apps, or they are too cheap.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    42. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by ozmanjusri · · Score: 1

      You mean it's just like the market outside the app stores then?

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    43. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Yeah, let's compare a company to a market that includes the company - and declare the market the loser. I couldn't have put it better myself.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    44. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Are you really that obtuse? A marketplace that someone is saying is large is significantly smaller than a single company that sells products in that market. Your argument is equivalent to saying 'this big shop has a huge profit and sells thousands of products!' and then mocking people who point out that there are individual suppliers of single products in that shop that have an order of magnitude higher profit nationwide than the total profit from all sales in the shop.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    45. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      If the richest 20% had all their annual incomes confiscated (100% tax rate at all levels) it would fund the government by itself for a year and a half.

      In other words, the rich are not the potential piggy banks Hollywood makes them out to be.

      If you want to fund just our existing government programs (not counting the welfare pipe dreams, etc) the non-rich are going to have to pay dearly.

    46. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      If the richest 20% had all their annual incomes confiscated (100% tax rate at all levels) it would fund the government by itself for a year and a half. In other words, the rich are not the potential piggy banks Hollywood makes them out to be. If you want to fund just our existing government programs (not counting the welfare pipe dreams, etc) the non-rich are going to have to pay dearly.

      Top 1% incomes grew by 31.4% while bottom 99% incomes grew only by 0.4% from 2009 to 2012. http://eml.berkeley.edu/~saez/...

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    47. Re:It's not a marketplace.. by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      So you are saying the rich get richer 60x or so faster than everyone else.

      Are you acknowledging that expanding government means broadening the tax base?

  2. App stores are like dating sites... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nobody choses me!

    1. Re:App stores are like dating sites... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... and job boards where everyone ignores my resume!

    2. Re:App stores are like dating sites... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      RMS had a girlfriend once. He named a kernel after her and she dumped him. So he dated the kernel instead. Then it dumped him.

    3. Re:App stores are like dating sites... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thats the result when you give the kernel the ability to make kerneldumps.

  3. Obvious solution. by grub · · Score: 5, Funny


    Become the sole developer for Blackberry app!

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:Obvious solution. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Already tried that. Didn't work.

    2. Re:Obvious solution. by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 0

      That's an amusing but perhaps slightly ironic comment. One of the few places left in mobile app development where someone new could really win big would be releasing a killer business app. If you could do it on the BB platform as well then they would probably throw their substantial resources behind you, because it would be in their interests to rejuvenate their platform on the back of your success.

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    3. Re:Obvious solution. by Provocateur · · Score: 1

      i told you, not all of them have touchscreens!

      --
      WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
    4. Re:Obvious solution. by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      It is actually a bit late with Blackberry. It is has plenty of apps, but the "new" platforms (BB10 and WP8) were actually a good business when they come out and you couldget first mover advantage, by the time the platforms were big enough to make profits the the first moverswere on top of the top10 lists. Not sure though if I would bet on a 5th or 6th platform at this point though. The lottery odds might still be better on BB10 and WP8 than on Android and iOS, though the jackpot is also significantly smaller.

  4. Rock Star Economy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't quit your day job.

  5. Is there a question here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A bunch of guys run off to make apps for one of the more profitable mobile app stores and as the mad rush of fart apps and candy crush clones begins to wane these guys need to go back to regular day jobs. News at 11.
     
    I seriously don't understand what this story is suppose to be. App quality is not going to suffer. Sure, a few good coders lost their shirt in the deal and now are gun shy but overall the market for apps will be fine.

    1. Re:Is there a question here? by Kaenneth · · Score: 1

      "candy crush clone"

      http://m.tickld.com/x/i-cant-b...
      http://www.gamespot.com/articl...

      The problem is separating the clones from the originals.

    2. Re:Is there a question here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I know all about it. It still doesn't make a bit of difference in the reality of the app store nor does it invalidate any point I made. Thanks for playing though.

    3. Re:Is there a question here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, it's a thinly veiled way of saying that Apple has crushed the hopes and dreams of the little guy again, so it's going to get attention on Slashdot.

      Never mind that the exact same dynamics are at work on Google Play, where there is a larger count of apps available for Android...

  6. uh, get rid of the "top X" ranking? by swschrad · · Score: 4, Insightful

    that thing gets in my way as a user all the time anyway. I do NOT want to see the stacks of pre-teen games, I am looking for a specific app almost all the time. just blow the sucker away, and if somebody wants to see downloads by counts, sell them an app to pull in the data.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
    1. Re:uh, get rid of the "top X" ranking? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that thing gets in my way as a user all the time anyway. I do NOT want to see the stacks of pre-teen games, I am looking for a specific app almost all the time. just blow the sucker away, and if somebody wants to see downloads by counts, sell them an app to pull in the data.

      I think Apple knows what they're doing...

    2. Re:uh, get rid of the "top X" ranking? by Noah+Haders · · Score: 2

      I think what's needed (and what I use) is third party sites to vet and recommend apps. I really like toucharcade for games. if they say something is good, then I often go check it out.

    3. Re:uh, get rid of the "top X" ranking? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Nice try, dude waiting to release a $1 "app to show the top downloads" that you already know everyone would buy, so you'd be an instant billionaire.

    4. Re:uh, get rid of the "top X" ranking? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that thing gets in my way as a user all the time anyway. I do NOT want to see the stacks of pre-teen games, I am looking for a specific app almost all the time. just blow the sucker away, and if somebody wants to see downloads by counts, sell them an app to pull in the data.

      When the ipad 2 first came out the App Store allowed you to view apps by date posted ... and if you wanted to spend the time you could wade as far back through the list as you wanted. Sure, flipping past a few pages of foreign-language apps for every day's post set was annoying but I loved how discoverable new apps were.

    5. Re:uh, get rid of the "top X" ranking? by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

      I reject his premise prime facia. There is no evidence to believe that not having a top ten list would lead to a more equitable pay distribution. Its just something he can bitch about.

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    6. Re:uh, get rid of the "top X" ranking? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's "prima facie," and you misused the phrase anyway.

    7. Re:uh, get rid of the "top X" ranking? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      Amazon's app store is a bit better, because they're good at correlating things you've bought with things you might want to buy, so have recommendations that don't totally suck. The only reason I actually have it installed though is their free app of the day (which isn't necessarily a good thing - there are a couple of games that it's given me that have wasted a lot of my time...)

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    8. Re:uh, get rid of the "top X" ranking? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      What leads to a more equitable pay distribution is having apps with a more equitable quality distribution.

      I'm not shocked that most of these apps never make a dime. Nor should they - they are terrible.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    9. Re:uh, get rid of the "top X" ranking? by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      you mean like the magazines we all read in the 80s and 90s to tell us what was worth buying? Just what I was going to say. The problem is... who's going to pay for it? Computer mags were full of ads, but who's going to pay to advertise when either A) your site tells people their software is rubbish or B) your site tells people that they should buy the software anyway.

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
    10. Re:uh, get rid of the "top X" ranking? by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      And given that Amazon allegedly don't pay developers for their free app of the day, it does very little to sort the balance of power in app land....

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
    11. Re:uh, get rid of the "top X" ranking? by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      The problem is... who's going to pay for it? Computer mags were full of ads, but who's going to pay to advertise when either A) your site tells people their software is rubbish or B) your site tells people that they should buy the software anyway.

      you are a marketing wiz! you must be a billionaire! Except, these sites DO exist and are successful but how can that be when you're a wiz? does not compute.

    12. Re:uh, get rid of the "top X" ranking? by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      I have seen many such sites, but they're all hugely out of date, and often review exactly the same software as each other. All they end up achieving is a slightly differently skewed marketplace.

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
    13. Re:uh, get rid of the "top X" ranking? by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I really wobbled the ranger on that one.

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    14. Re:uh, get rid of the "top X" ranking? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      They do pay developers, but they pay them quite a lot less than the purchase price. The logic is that they'll get a load more downloads. That makes sense, as I've downloaded several things for free that I'd never pay for and a few that I've only run for 5-10 minutes and never touched again.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    15. Re:uh, get rid of the "top X" ranking? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Wasn't there a Slashdot article about some developers who had their app selected for free app of the day, and wound up with support costs considerably greater than what they actually made?

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    16. Re:uh, get rid of the "top X" ranking? by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      No, they say they pay them, but then they "renegotiate" the fee down to zero.

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
    17. Re:uh, get rid of the "top X" ranking? by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      I believe you're referring to this story. The wprding of Amazon's email strongly suggests the whole 20% thing is just bait-and-switch.

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
  7. Recent purchases/downloads by Travis+Mansbridge · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A list of recently purchased/downloaded or even new additions would cycle a larger group of useful apps to the app store audience.

    1. Re:Recent purchases/downloads by multimediavt · · Score: 1

      A list of recently purchased/downloaded or even new additions would cycle a larger group of useful apps to the app store audience.

      New apps should be featured, not most popular or most sold. Right now there are an extremely limited number of ways to filter apps when you browse and this more than anything is hurting the smaller, startup app developers. I know, I've been one!

    2. Re:Recent purchases/downloads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      To my mind, Amazon 10-15 years ago was better designed than the App Store is today. I've had people tell me they had trouble finding my app when they knew the name, so that tells me basic search is borderline incompetent. Then just some basic association or personalization lists -- people who rated this app high also rated these other apps, bought this/bought that, etc. -- would be huge. I've actually found out about some of my favorite bands from Amazon, whereas I stay the hell away from the iTunes/App Store unless I know exactly what I'm looking for (or I'm checking the discount bin).

    3. Re:Recent purchases/downloads by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      Then just some basic association or personalization lists -- people who rated this app high also rated these other apps, bought this/bought that, etc. -- would be huge.

      they have this.

    4. Re:Recent purchases/downloads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right, my bad. I guess the only time I've seen it is on the movie page where it's so consistently awful I look past it and forgot it existed -- e.g., right now my top picks include "Housesitter", "Fletch", a Mummy sequel, and "The Break-up" in the initially-visible part of the list. It's like an anti-recommendation list. So I guess I need to change my request to include some level of competence, although I'd hope the "also bought" lists would be better.

    5. Re:Recent purchases/downloads by scm · · Score: 1

      If you open the App Store on an iOS device, the first thing you see is a list of new apps.

    6. Re:Recent purchases/downloads by Voyager529 · · Score: 1

      This is already a solved problem:

      www.crooklynclan.net

      The first thing you see on the page is the most recent entries, no matter what they are. Genre pages are available, with each genre getting their own page of recent entries. Completely separate to that are 'charts', which show the top tracks from this month, past six months, and 'all time', with both site-wide and per-genre charts available.

      The site's search feature needs work, but that's a different problem altogether. The point is that there is room for both a 'recently added' and a 'most popular' set of rankings, and the way to do it is already in place, and in service. Crooklyn Clan has plenty of the same issues that cause the problems shown in the App Store (lots and lots of contributions, poor SnR, frequent turnover, fickle customers), and they've been doing it right for years. All Apple needs to do is forego their adherence to "not invented here".

    7. Re:Recent purchases/downloads by pkinetics · · Score: 1

      How about a date range option. Something like Monthly, Yearly, All Time.

      It'd be great if there was an option to see best apps from year to year.

    8. Re:Recent purchases/downloads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      New apps should be featured, not most popular or most sold. Right now there are an extremely limited number of ways to filter apps when you browse and this more than anything is hurting the smaller, startup app developers. I know, I've been one!

      I hate to break it to you, but there are hundreds of new apps per day. Featuring them individually would do nothing for developers since any given new app would be pushed several pages down the list within an hour of release. Besides, users just aren't interested in tapping through half a dozen selections to set parameters by which to filter.

        There's just no way to fix this with a billion titles in the App Store. The key is for Apple to raise the barrier to entry in iOS app development and start culling older, out of date apps. I would be thrilled to pay not just $99 per year to play, but $99 per app submission. Yes, THRILLED. Why? Because it would instantly eliminate the practice of releasing the same re-skinned, re-named app dozens of times while having no discernible negative effect on developers putting forward their best effort. Let's face it, if your app's not worth an individual $99 investment, it doesn't need to be crowding the catalog anyway.

    9. Re:Recent purchases/downloads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then just some basic association or personalization lists -- people who rated this app high also rated these other apps, bought this/bought that, etc. -- would be huge.

      they have this.

      And have for years. The problem is that for all apps, those lists are populated by the various top ten mega-apps. Apple's being truthful here; The typical buyer of any random low-success indie app is also likely to have bought many apps from the top ten lists... and it's an absolute for the composite of typical buyers. If Apple wanted to foster an "App Store Middle Class" they'd have to take a patently dishonest approach and rig the system to stop promoting apps that are already highly successful.

    10. Re:Recent purchases/downloads by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      Apple's being truthful here; The typical buyer of any random low-success indie app is also likely to have bought many apps from the top ten lists... and it's an absolute for the composite of typical buyers. If Apple wanted to foster an "App Store Middle Class" they'd have to take a patently dishonest approach and rig the system to stop promoting apps that are already highly successful.

      It wouldn't be dishonest. Right now, a lot of the recommendations are things you've probably already heard of anyway. A policy of "discovery" recommendations would be no bad thing.

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
    11. Re:Recent purchases/downloads by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Apple's being truthful here; The typical buyer of any random low-success indie app is also likely to have bought many apps from the top ten lists... and it's an absolute for the composite of typical buyers. If Apple wanted to foster an "App Store Middle Class" they'd have to take a patently dishonest approach and rig the system to stop promoting apps that are already highly successful.

      It wouldn't be dishonest. Right now, a lot of the recommendations are things you've probably already heard of anyway. A policy of "discovery" recommendations would be no bad thing.

      So they should have "people who bought this also bought this - but nobody else did" lists.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  8. Start looking for other places to promote.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe /. could see some new advertisement revenue

  9. Too many apps, too much appcrap by Animats · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There should be far fewer "apps". Any "app" that just displays content should be a web site. Once you get rid of the appcrap, there probably is no need for more apps than there were boxed software products.

    1. Re:Too many apps, too much appcrap by nwf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most apps perform way, way faster all the while using significantly less data than do web sites. This may be more a ding against most web sites, but is valid none the less. I use a number of apps that can fetch their data and display it before a mobile browser has even pulled down the main content, let alone the 20 JavaScript libraries, 12 crap affiliate site icons/links and the countless images that add nothing.

      However, some apps are worse than their mobile web site versions, e.g. most news sites.

      My own company's mobile app, which I developed, can typically refresh a page in under 25 ms via 3G. Plus, customers prefer the apps to the mobile web sites.

      --
      I don't know, but it works for me.
    2. Re:Too many apps, too much appcrap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sounds like you need an adblocker and selective script blocking for your ios's safari browser? oh? you cant do that? perhaps you also then need a more open ecosystem for your device?

      far better than some ad infested, usage tracking, data mining, location monitoring, home phoning, piece of shit single purpose app.

    3. Re:Too many apps, too much appcrap by jxander · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Question for you, as someone who has developed a mobile app:

      How much harder is it to optimize a mobile version of the webpage vs writing an app from scratch and getting it approved for App Store release?

      --
      This signature is false.
    4. Re:Too many apps, too much appcrap by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      All I see is a natural settling of the app bubble. This is a good thing. It just means the market is maturing. The alternative is a hard crash, like when the dot-com bubble popped, and no one wants that.

      The author all but admits that app development was seen as a get-rich-quick scheme, and acknowledges the market is maturing, but falters when it comes time to face reality. Removing "top sales" lists or curtailing frivolous app development would be a bandaid. It would inconvenience users in a ham-handed attempt to "spread the wealth" - exactly the wrong approach to take, since users would simply lash out at the app store developers for doing that.

      What's the solution? Probably the same as it's always been: work hard, create a great product, sell it for a fair price, market it in a unique and clever way, and hope for the best. If an app developer goes under, it just demonstrates that wasn't exactly beating a door down for their app. It's harsh, but that's how markets work. App stores could better solve the problem by developing algorithms to show more relevant products based on purchasing and browsing history, but honestly, you can't rely on anyone else to sell your app for you.

      Launching a startup has always been immensely risky. The notion that app developers should somehow be immune from normal market realities is laughable.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    5. Re:Too many apps, too much appcrap by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      The problem is when you have no access to data, then your website solution's useless to me.

      For example, the Ultra Street Fighter 4 Framedata app for tablets would be useless to me if I had to have data to access it. the data's rarely going to get updated, and the structure of the data doesn't fit nicely into ebook format either.

      This also isn't the biggest problem either. The biggest problem is the amount of apps. For example, there's a ton of twitter apps in the store, which one do you use? Also what reason is there to pay for say, Tweetbot when the official app is free? Also do you get gun-shy because you've bought a few apps and they suck?

      Some of this isn't being touched upon by TFA, so. Take that for what it's worth.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    6. Re:Too many apps, too much appcrap by onix · · Score: 1

      Oh man, couldn't have said it better. nwf's opinion is of course self-serving. In all seriousness, Apple doesn't help to reduce web clutter. I'm forced to use iPhone's safari, but also use Weblock in combination.

    7. Re: Too many apps, too much appcrap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends on the app and what platforms you want. I think ios and android development are pretty easy. Web seems harder to get right on all browsers, but most stuff is pretty easy.

    8. Re:Too many apps, too much appcrap by Hewligan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, I've done both of those, and the webpage option is far, far easier.

      But people always want you to build an app, because apps are cool and websites are old hat.

      --

      "If God created us in his own image, we have more than reciprocated"

    9. Re:Too many apps, too much appcrap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My question for him was a bit more simplistic. I'm a cell infrastructure developer, and most 3G ping times are north of 100ms, so how the hell is he getting a 25ms update?

    10. Re:Too many apps, too much appcrap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I can't even get an ACK in 25ms over 3G, let alone any data. Are you sure you're not blowing your own trumpet a tad?

    11. Re:Too many apps, too much appcrap by maccodemonkey · · Score: 5, Informative

      Question for you, as someone who has developed a mobile app:

      How much harder is it to optimize a mobile version of the webpage vs writing an app from scratch and getting it approved for App Store release?

      Mobile developer here who has done hybrid apps, Android apps, iOS apps, web apps, etc.

      It's hard.

      Web apps do not get the native scrolling mechanism, so scrolling feels very funky in web apps. Web app developers write their own inertial scrolling mechanisms to try to deal with it, but web apps always feel wrong as a result.

      You also don't get access to a lot of native functions. No barcode scanning. No access to the user's preloaded Facebook account (with authorization, of course.)

      There is another problem in that, especially on Android, web technologies are just badly supported. It's getting better in more recent versions of Android where Chrome is actually the engine used end to end by everyone, but earlier versions still on Google's old ass version of WebKit blew chunks.

      Loading can be a problem as well. Real apps by definition cache a certain amount of code and resources on the device. A web page has to fetch all resources from start to finish. So while a real app has it's loading UI cached on device, and can display it right away when the user taps a link, a web page has to go fetch a UI over the network to display a loading UI for the operation the web app is about to do over the network. Gross.

      The other really messy thing is a real app is pretty easily able to figure out what kind of device it's on and render content accordingly. Web apps can kind of guess what type of display/device they are running on, but again, it can be messy. Especially with new things coming like Adaptive UI/multi windowing coming on iOS where your window or screen size may have no real connection to what kind of device you're running on. Web pages at this point basically assuming they're always rendering full screen on mobile, and do their layout computations based on that, but that looks like it will change on future iOS and Android devices.

      You also have a problem with native widgets. If I code a real iOS app, if I run it on iOS 6, it looks like iOS 6. If I run it on iOS 7, it looks like iOS 7. I don't have to create new assets, the app automatically ingests the correct look from the widget set built into the OS. With a web page, I get the "joy" of building my widget set from scratch, and trying to make it at least resemble the system UI widgets the user has been trained to use. And better yet, if I make my web app look like an iOS app, I suddenly have a bunch of Android users unhappy my web app looks like an Android app.

      Finally, web apps don't offer any way to be embedded as extensions on iOS, or activities on Android. You can kind of fake it with some really really ugly URL handling handshaking, but this is really problem prone.

      TL; DR: Mobile web frameworks/browsers are still immature, and don't offer basically mobile specific functionality that's needed to do apps well. It's not a problem of it being hard to do a web app just as good as a native app, it's a problem of it being impossible because the feature sets just aren't there.

    12. Re:Too many apps, too much appcrap by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Question for you, as someone who has developed a mobile app:

      How much harder is it to optimize a mobile version of the webpage vs writing an app from scratch and getting it approved for App Store release?

      Answer for you, as someone who has used web pages, mobile pages, and apps:

      Have you seen most mobile web pages? They're absolutely crap most of the time.

      Often time you'll follow a link in a browser on a tablet, get redirected to their mobile site, and more or less dumped at the home page -- you don't actually ever get to the link you followed.

      I've set my browsers on my Nexus 7 to always ask for the desktop version, because in enough cases the mobile is unusable, so I don't bother.

      In my experience, most sites write their mobile as an afterthought, do a terrible job of it, and auto redirect you to the landing page instead of the link you were trying to see.

      Which has the net effect of making them utterly useless.

      I certainly don't subscribe to the notion that every web site needs an app, but I've seen many examples of the app being of far better quality than pathetic attempts at writing the mobile site.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    13. Re:Too many apps, too much appcrap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Link is related.

      http://sealedabstract.com/rants/why-mobile-web-apps-are-slow/

    14. Re:Too many apps, too much appcrap by jxander · · Score: 1

      Don't disagree about most mobile sites being junk

      My question was more about distribution of effort. Is it easier to make a decent app, than to make a decent mobile page?

      Or, put another way: Do mobile sites suck because they're harder to code? Or because web companies would rather make us install THEIR proprietary software?

      --
      This signature is false.
  10. economy bullshit argument by Tom · · Score: 0, Troll

    As the economics get tighter, it becomes much harder to support the lavish treatment that developers have given apps in the past, such as full-time staffs, offices, pixel-perfect custom designs of every screen, frequent free updates, and completely different iPhone and iPad interfaces.

    This is why these app developers fail where Apple succeeds. They create apps for an environment they don't get. Apple is very much about this attention to detail in everything they do, and it's a huge part of why they are successful.

    The "economics get tighter" argument is a strawman. Apple users are not the kind of people who drive to a different supermarket because the tomatoes are 5 cents cheaper there.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    1. Re:economy bullshit argument by Zordak · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Apple users are not the kind of people who drive to a different supermarket because the tomatoes are 5 cents cheaper there.

      Exactly. They're the type of people who always shop at the same supermarket, where the tomatoes cost twice as much as anywhere else and have a glossy wax coating, are all the same, approved size, and are utterly free of any flavor. In fact, they don't even know how to cook, and don't know why they're buying tomatoes in the first place, except that the reanimated corpse of Steve Jobs told them to. They buy their precious, shiny iTomatoes and dutifully display them in the crispers of their iRefrigerators. Then a week later, they toss them out and go back to the iGroceryStore and buy the new, upgraded iTomato 5S, with even more shiny and even less flavor.

      --

      Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
    2. Re:economy bullshit argument by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Part of the problem for developers is that Apple has banned some of the most profitable types of app, i.e. anything that competes with the functionality of Apple apps. For example alternative web browsers that are more than just a skin like Firefox. I'm amazed they bowed to pressure and allowed 3rd party keyboards, which are always top sellers on other platforms.

      The other part of the problem is that Apple does little to prevent developers being screwed, and to be fair most app stores are guilty of this. If someone has an interesting idea you can guarantee that about 15 minutes later Zynga will have cloned it, and then thrown money at marketing it and probably sued the original developer for good measure. The App Store only rewards Zynga for this behaviour.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:economy bullshit argument by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The most profitable apps are web browsers? What are you smoking?

    4. Re:economy bullshit argument by jbolden · · Score: 0, Troll

      For example alternative web browsers that are more than just a skin like Firefox

      Apple has most certainly not banned those. They have however held interpreters to very high standards. For example they've been trying to get Microsoft to port a trident based browser to Mac. There are no engines from indy developers so they can't do more than skin one of the few engines.

      If someone has an interesting idea you can guarantee that about 15 minutes later Zynga will have cloned it, and then thrown money at marketing it and probably sued the original developer for good measure.

      You do realize you are coming out in favor of strong IP protection in the first clause and then coming out against it in the 2nd?

    5. Re:economy bullshit argument by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If someone has an interesting idea you can guarantee that about 15 minutes later Zynga will have cloned it, and then thrown money at marketing it and probably sued the original developer for good measure.

      You do realize you are coming out in favor of strong IP protection in the first clause and then coming out against it in the 2nd?

      I don't see that. It's not the comment which is inconsistent, but the IP system.

    6. Re:economy bullshit argument by Tom · · Score: 1, Insightful

      that Apple has banned some of the most profitable types of app, [...] For example alternative web browsers

      Uh... because web browsers are certainly the most profitable software outside the app store. It's a real shame that all those multi-billion dollar browser makers cannot port their cash cows to iOS. Why does Apple not realize that thousands of jobs depend on the sales of web browsers?

      The App Store only rewards Zynga for this behaviour.

      The App Store doesn't give a fuck. Users reward Zynga by flocking to their copycat games while at the same time complaining that all games have become the same and there's no innovation anymore.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    7. Re:economy bullshit argument by Tom · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nice rant, but like all hyperboles, it left reality far behind in the second sentence.

      I've used DOS originally, then some Windows and hated it pretty much from the start, so I switched to Linux as soon as I heard about it, I think it was 1997 or so. Do you know why I've been a Mac users for about 10 years now? Because it simply works. I don't have to spend half of my time on just maintaining the system and searching for obscure failure cases. I love my iMac and my iPhone because they allow me to focus almost all of my time on actually doing the work that I want to do.

      To most people in this world, computers are a tool. Just like cars. Most people who own a car use it to get from A to B. Some people own cars so they can tinker with them on the weekend and replace parts just because they can - but they are a tiny minority.

      I love that I could get a system running from scratch, compile my own kernel and base tools and so on. I've done it and it was a great experience. At the same time, I'm very happy that I don't actually have to do it. I'm tired of tinkering with the machine, I have actual work I want to get done. I have places A and B that I want to get to.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    8. Re:economy bullshit argument by Xtravar · · Score: 1

      Also, for the OCD control freaks like myself, having a more locked down, yet polished, system is a plus. Otherwise, I'd be customizing, tweaking, and optimizing (and breaking, and fixing) all day.

      --
      Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
    9. Re:economy bullshit argument by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Uh... because web browsers are certainly the most profitable software outside the app store.

      Yes they are. They regularly appear in the top selling apps on Android.

      The App Store doesn't give a fuck.

      Exactly. The best search engines tend to rank pages by reputation, so if software is just a copy of something else and lots of people point that out it usually becomes apparent to anyone searching. The Play store uses a similar system where apps that are recommended on web sites often get promoted in the store, where as the App Store isn't quite that sophisticated. The result is that people like Zynga can steal other people's ideas and SEO their way to the top, where as it is much harder to do on Play.

      Essentially Play has a better spam filter.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    10. Re:economy bullshit argument by Tom · · Score: 1

      Nice to see that paid shills are now downvoting factual statements about the market of their paycheck issuers competitors.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    11. Re:economy bullshit argument by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      The most profitable apps are web browsers? What are you smoking?

      Well, some of the "non-existing" web browsers on iOS cost money, so he may be right in his drug-addled delusions.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    12. Re:economy bullshit argument by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you know why I've been a Mac users for about 10 years now?

      I can think of several reasons: you have too much money; you like shiny things; you're stupid and tribal.

      Because it simply works.

      No, that's not it, because Macs don't "just work", Apple marketing notwithstanding.

    13. Re:economy bullshit argument by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I don't see why they downvoted you either. I mean, you pretty much nailed it: Apple users are obsessive-compulsive geeks with an irrational perfectionism and too much money on their hands. Cost-conscious people who want to get the job done go elsewhere.

    14. Re:economy bullshit argument by Tom · · Score: 1

      No, that's not it, because Macs don't "just work", Apple marketing notwithstanding.

      Trollish nonsense nonwithstanding, I've worked with DOS, Windows, Linux, Solaris, HP/UX, OpenBSD and some ancient VMS whose exact name I've forgotten. None of them worked as well and went out of my way as nicely as OS X does.

      YMMV, but my experience is my experience, like it or not.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  11. Welcome to application development by blueshift_1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I feel like this is basically the same story as Desktop application development. A few started, as time went on and it was profitable many people entered the market, and eventually the main market is controlled by a few key players. There will be a handful of smaller companies making modest profits on really useful tools, but a lot of it will go unnoticed by the masses. People download what they need. Period. If your app doesn't apply to the masses, then the masses aren't going to buy it. But if it is useful enough and polished enough, there is a good chance it will flourish (though like anything viral - some ridiculous things will get through).

  12. Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Works exactly as designed.

  13. Apple wants few high quality apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    vs a bunch low quality ones.
    Since that might make their platform look more appealing, one could say that maybe these standards are too high but calling them broken might be too much.

  14. Hire Netflix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Personalized app recommendations, since Apple banned third parties from doing it.

  15. People expecting their marketing for free by jolyonr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Too many people want to get rich by selling apps and expect Apple to pay for the marketing of their apps for free on the App Store.

    The App Store serves one purpose - not to promote your apps, but to make money for Apple.

    If you want to go into business selling an app for iOS then you need to have some plan in place to market it. That doesn't mean sticking it on the App Store and hoping for the best.

    If you can't afford to market your app (either by paying for advertising somewhere or just physically spending your own time promoting it) then you really shouldn't waste money or time to develop it either.

    --


    Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
    1. Re:People expecting their marketing for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think most developers would be happy if the App Store just had competent search and good personalization/recommendations, like other sites have had for over a decade. As it is, the store is the equivalent of putting something at the end of the aisle for couple of weeks and then immediately putting it in a back room where people have to ask for it by name and an employee brings out a box of crap you have to sift through that might not even contain what you asked for. I would guess that one factor in the failure of the music+social thing Apple tried a couple of years ago is in part because no one wants to consider the horror of trying to discover music on the iTunes Store.

    2. Re:People expecting their marketing for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Keep in mind you can't sell your iOS apps outside the Apple marketplace. So if you invest in promoting your app, you're also forced to invest in promoting Apple's App Store!

    3. Re:People expecting their marketing for free by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah, what the world needs is more advertising. If that takes off, I'll create an adblocker for the appstore and get rich, for there will be ONE app that EVERYBODY wants!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:People expecting their marketing for free by jolyonr · · Score: 3, Informative

      Advertising is marketing. But not all marketing is advertising.

      For example, how did you learn about adblock?

      --


      Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
    5. Re:People expecting their marketing for free by maccodemonkey · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Too many people want to get rich by selling apps and expect Apple to pay for the marketing of their apps for free on the App Store.

      I don't think this is quite what people are expecting. Rather, the problem is Apple directly prohibits most ways that an app can be promoted. Want to do a demo? No great way to do it in the app store. A trial? Forbidden. Want to offer a download directly from the developer? Nope.

      So really what developers are requesting is simple: If Apple wants to directly hand hold the distribution and retail channel of an application, they either need to improve visibility for applications within that retail channel, or give developers more flexibility in how they can market applications. Apple isn't entirely responsible, but because they want developers to be so reliant on their store front, the argument is that Apple needs to actually provide a good store front to make that trade off worth it.

      It would be like if you struck a deal with Target where they had full control over how your product was sold and exclusive rights to sell it, and then they stuck it in a dark corner of their store and never sold a single unit.

    6. Re:People expecting their marketing for free by jbolden · · Score: 2

      Want to do a demo? No great way to do it in the app store. A trial? Forbidden.

      Huh? There are tons of apps with a free version and a paid version and/or paid upgrade. That's a demo / trial.

      or give developers more flexibility in how they can market applications

      Apple doesn't control marketing they control the point of sale. I get marketed all the time where various sites I'm on tell me if they an associated mobile application that does XYZ.

    7. Re:People expecting their marketing for free by windwalkr · · Score: 1

      Huh? There are tons of apps with a free version and a paid version and/or paid upgrade. That's a demo / trial.

      Not exactly. Apple doesn't allow actual demos, they're pretty explicit about this. "Lite" apps are the workaround and they tend to offer reduced functionality but are free- this can serve as a demo if it's easy to divide your app into "the intro stuff" and "the longer term stuff", for example by giving away the first few levels of a game- but cannot serve as a demo if your app doesn't have this distinction.

      For example, I'm pretty sure that Apple will not permit a 30-day free trial, nor do they permit you to have functionality which is "disabled in this demo version." You can get around this to some extent with in-app purchases, but that's not quite the same as a demo.

      At best, it's a very different way of monetising your software, and a way that some developers may not like. At worst, GP is right and it could compromise your ability to effectively market your app.

    8. Re:People expecting their marketing for free by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      By typing "how the fuck can I get rid of the damn ads" into google.

      In other words, I went looking for it. Nobody ever bothered to shove their crap in my face to convince me it's a good idea. They had plenty of others who did that convinced me without even trying.

      If there's a market for a product, there's no need to slap someone in his face with it.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    9. Re: People expecting their marketing for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's marketing too :) you can't live in a world without it unless you never want to find new things.

    10. Re:People expecting their marketing for free by jbolden · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure that Apple will not permit a 30-day free trial,

      Well they sort of allow that. For exampleif there is a backend service then that service can handle the 30-day free trial. But... generally Apple is going to want the purchase to happen via. App Store or via. a computer.

      nor do they permit you to have functionality which is "disabled in this demo version."

      They most certainly do allow functionality that is disabled until you pay for the upgrade. I've bought tons of functionality that way.

      At worst, GP is right and it could compromise your ability to effectively market your app.

      I'm still not seeing what you can't do.

    11. Re:People expecting their marketing for free by rgbscan · · Score: 1

      Plenty of iOS apps do a trial period. I've had apps that limit the functionality after 30 days unless you pay in-app to unlock it. I've had photo apps that allow you to use all the filters for free for 'x' number of pictures to sample them and then you had to in-app purchase them to keep using them. And just last night I downloaded Revolution 60 (excellent game BTW) and you get the whole game but there's a countdown timer. After an hour of playtime you have to pay for it via in-app purchase or it stops working and won't read your save file.

    12. Re:People expecting their marketing for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Marketing includes search-engine optimization and word-of-mouth.

    13. Re:People expecting their marketing for free by jbolden · · Score: 1

      OK good even better. I hadn't run into that on any I use. So they specifically allow for a countdown.

    14. Re:People expecting their marketing for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Want to make a fantastic app that's productive/addictive that people WANT to play and tell their friends about? Apple's not stopping that. Want to offer free copies to targeted websites so they can sing the praises of your awesomesuperfantastic app? Apple's not stopping that.

      However, just know that if the above doesn't work, then a demo/trial/download directly from the developer will likely yield the same non-results. I would love to see someone do a study (for Android of course) on how all the demo's, downloads from developers and trials allowed over there helps it to power WAAAAAY past the app store to be the moneymaking powerhouse of the mobile industry that it is.

    15. Re:People expecting their marketing for free by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      That's the kind of marketing I can go for. Less so the search engine crippling, but being recommended by people using it (and not getting paid for recommending stuff).

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  16. Curation: Apple does high profile reviews... by west · · Score: 2

    One possible imperfect solution:

    For $x ($200? $500? $1,000?), Apple will do a real review of the application and attach the results to the app store listing. Then allow sorting by rating.

    This is imperfect, in that it's still one person's opinion and subjective as any review is, but:

    - It allows good applications to have an possible (no guarantees) avenue to stand-out apart from sales.
    - By charging enough to cover the cost, it allows Apple to hire enough people to do timely reviews.
    - Keeps out the chaff (who's willing to pay $500 for a guaranteed 'F' rating)

    Nothing will guarantee successful curation. The question is what methods might *improve* discovery. Remember that any method that can be done by anyone, will be done by everyone, making it useless.

    1. Re:Curation: Apple does high profile reviews... by MouseR · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Adding more category tags and features filtering to the search engine would let you find precisely what you are looking for.

      But despite the absence of a very good search engine, even my two dinky Apps have managed to gather thousands of download.

      What's really missing IMO is an in-app rating SDK. Users just cant be bothered to rate Apps because it takes them out of their task and into a different app where they must navigate the comments & ratings links in your App listing on the App Store.

      Something akin to Netflix. Right in the app where you can star it and add a comment.

    2. Re:Curation: Apple does high profile reviews... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For $x ($200? $500? $1,000?), Apple will do a real review of the application and attach the results to the app store listing.

      Do you think anyone would believe their review? If it's good - Apple is on the take. If it's bad - Apple was paid off by a competitor. Just like the millions of other "reviews" on the Internet.

    3. Re:Curation: Apple does high profile reviews... by west · · Score: 1

      First, if Apple puts a measure to sort by review score, then absolutely it will be taken seriously. Most people would not be informed enough to even care where the review came from - it's simply a metric.

      For the informed, I would expect it to have as much credence as magazine reviews, which get taken fairly seriously by most.

      Remember, *nothing* is going to work perfectly. What I want to see is ideas that allow more (not all, more) decent apps without $100K budget to get some more discoverability.

    4. Re:Curation: Apple does high profile reviews... by west · · Score: 1

      Indeed, I am not certain why Apple hasn't done this. Can they not ensure the external call to rate the app isn't hacked to always give 5 stars?

      I'd love to hear the technical justification (and I'm sure there is one, but I'm curious).

    5. Re:Curation: Apple does high profile reviews... by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      There already were several "app discovery" apps; things like AppShopper and Toucharcade that let you see news and reviews, friends' preferred apps, and so on. However Apple got kind of ban-happy with them a while back for replicating App Store functionality and the ones that are still around are on thin ice. They should be cultivating that category instead. The whole point of Apps is to fill functionality niches that the host company overlooks.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    6. Re:Curation: Apple does high profile reviews... by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      You know, the iOS8 extensions API lets you securely launch code from inside another app; perhaps they could include an App Store extension that does this?

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    7. Re:Curation: Apple does high profile reviews... by west · · Score: 1

      I wasn't aware of this. Apple still gets its cut, so why are they worried?

      I'd fully agree that apps and sites like this are an important part of the app ecosystem. Any mechanism for curated discoverability is a plus.

    8. Re:Curation: Apple does high profile reviews... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The one time I wanted to rate an app, it told me to make an app-rating account with a distinct name. That's when I stopped.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    9. Re:Curation: Apple does high profile reviews... by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Just add a social component, and bamm! they are back https://itunes.apple.com/us/ap...

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  17. The Entire Web Dev "Ecosystem" is Broken by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 2

    With all these frameworks and "platforms", and more and more "drag and drop" app building for Mobile and Browser apps, Web Development is no longer a sustainable means of employment for freelancing. Within the next 5 years, any High Schooler CS student will be able to drag and drop their way to a Cloud Hosted Web and Mobile App with a REST-API. It's to the point that the median wage is less than I can make as a full-time employee -- which means contracting is becoming no longer viable a because clients willing to pay my rate of $110/hr (which I consider very reasonable considering my skillset) are farer and fewer between especially when there's a legion of scrubs out there willing to together something in Angular (today's a very popular MVC that holds your dick for you while taking away all that nasty OOP stuff like inheritance and abstraction) for as low as $35 or $40 an hour. Thank god I have a few in-demand specializations and some arcane knowledge. But it's hard to want to stay Contracting when lately I get job offers (just one today in fact) offering $150k to $200k a year + benes on a regular basis. So while Contract work seems less viable, Full-Time seems to be offering better wages than ever. Probably due to the strong demand for Developers capable of filling Leadership roles. However, I'm not giving up just yet, and working on creating something that doesn't exist yet, a self-generating API platform and hopefully will turn to the new fangled "begging" economy to raise a livable wage (or more) to develop the UI portion in the form of some Services or Apps over on Kickstarter once I have a demo and a fancy video. But if the Begging Economy stuff doesn't work, yes I will likely take a FTE position at a Company sometime in the next year or two.

    1. Re:The Entire Web Dev "Ecosystem" is Broken by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I don't really fear that you'll be going extinct anytime soon. Web designers were in that bind before. "Nephew art" anyone? Where webdesigners got fired 'cause "my nephew can do it, he's good with computers".

      Development doesn't stop, especially not in a technical field so closely tied with marketing and PR as web design. What "anyone" can do will flood the market, to the point where webpages that offer it will be met with "been there, done that" yawns. What people want is something new. New ways of presenting stuff to them is the key. Because that's something those "web kits" can, of course, not offer.

      And don't get me started on security...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:The Entire Web Dev "Ecosystem" is Broken by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So much bitterness just because you couldn't manage to keep up with modern development.

    3. Re:The Entire Web Dev "Ecosystem" is Broken by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TLDR. Next time try using paragraphs.

  18. Top lists aren't the problem by unimacs · · Score: 1

    The problem is that the mobile app market has become saturated and the price users are willing to pay for apps is so low. Getting rid of top lists may remove some perceived unfairness but it won't solve the fundamental problem (from the app developer perspective) of supply and demand.

    1. Re:Top lists aren't the problem by jbolden · · Score: 1

      the price users are willing to pay for apps is so low.

      Prices have been going up. I'm seeing applications all the time with prices around $65 / user / mo for licensing. You didn't see that 3 years ago. Now if you mean generic mass popular crap for which there are hundreds of alternatives there the price may very well be going to 0.

      The fundamental problem for app developers is they are still going after mass market rather than verticals or niches.

  19. A random freebie with comparison program by gurps_npc · · Score: 1
    That is, if you already own app A that does (x) then you can sign up to randomly get a random app B that also does x.

    If you agree to rate and compare both of them, then at the end of one week, you can if you desire, trade in app A for app B for free if A costs more than B (or the price differential if B costs more than A.)

    When buying apps, these ratings would be shown next to the regular ones, and be sortable.

    The app creators (and the app store) would have to agree to this program, giving up their products for free in exchange for this rating system.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
  20. Decaying ratings by pla · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Subject says it all:

    Don't allow a once-five-star app to rest on its laurels forever. After six months if you haven't inspired anyone new to rate you, your rating should decay to zero. Not only would this tend to favor new apps over old ones, but it would also effectively punish those developers who "fire and forget" app after app after app with zero support or updates for old apps.

    1. Re:Decaying ratings by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And what exactly is the advantage for an app to be new? Or what is the disadvantage for an app to be old?
      Last time I checked software did not age.
      I rather have an old working app than a new immature one ... that does not mean new apps are immature by definition.

      And why do users demand updates for old apps if the app is just working fine? I hate this update mania.

      40 Apps on my iPad and many more on my iPhone demand that I update. I don't ... as long there os nothing broken I keep the old one.

      If I easy could fallback to the previous one, then I would try new updates. But more interesting would be too have the old _and_ the new one.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    2. Re:Decaying ratings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, that's nice of you, but just like there are newer versions of chrome and firefox for new HTML5 tricks, there are new versions of the OS. If you don't update you don't get newer features. And after a few years you are unlikely to get *any* updates for any app, since all require you to upgrade the OS. So most popular and used apps update just because they have to adapt. With this in mind, it actually makes sense for two or three year old apps to rot in ratings, since they are unlikely to support new features.

      Of course this is all from the point of view that more features is better, which I don't agree though.

    3. Re:Decaying ratings by timeOday · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What you are missing is that ratings are assigned relative to the competition that existed when the rating was assigned. Go over to gamespot and check out the graphics of a game that got the top rating for graphics 8 years ago. Are those graphics still 10/10? Not even close. Go over to Amazon.com and search SD Cards by "Average Customer Review." Many of the top-ranked cards are little 8 and 16 GB cards that were rated up years ago.

    4. Re:Decaying ratings by pla · · Score: 1

      Last time I checked software did not age.

      In a static world, on a static computing platform, I would agree with you entirely. We do not live in that world.

      I remember back in the DOS days I had a wonderful programming-oriented text editor, named "Brief". It supported programmable macros, column editing, triggering external programs (ie, compile and run without leaving the editor). Completely blew away everything else available at the time.

      I don't still use Brief, despite it still working just as well as it ever did, and despite still having a need for a solid programming-oriented text editor.

    5. Re:Decaying ratings by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Well, you have a point here, but when I like to buy such a game or SD card I surely like to see the old rating as well.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  21. MOAR STATS!!! by war4peace · · Score: 1

    No, seriously.
    I would like to sort by app age (time elapsed since it was first published) then average # of updates/month. Then take that output and breakdown by category. Or breakdown by free, freemium, shareware, paid, paid for by ads, etc.

    As an Android user, I loathe using Google Play to look for software. I have 5 games on my phone, all casual, the sort of things that you play while waiting for the bus or on the loo, and still I get shitty recommendations like Batman Arkham Origins (I hate Batman), Holly Hobbie and Friends Party (seriously??? what the fuck!) and Fantastic Eleven (I only watch the World Cup and European Cup, and only if I have time).

    Under "Recommended for You" I see "in the Mood for Romance" (HUH!), Muscle Meals (the fuck, I don't cook), and so on, and so forth. Golden prize goes to "Hairstyle Guide" e-book. No Scifi, which I love.
    recommendations based on installed apps ratings is flaky at best. I gave an app 2 stars (because it's mostly bad and I am looking for another), Google Play says "no recommendations based on your score" but when I give an internet Radio app a score of 5 stars (because it's awesome) it recommends me... more Internet Radio apps. It somehow seems to think that bad ratings mean "I don't need apps with that functionality" and good ratings mean "I'm looking for more of the same type" while it's quite the other way around.

    --
    ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
  22. You mean having a trillion apps isn't wonderful? by gelfling · · Score: 1

    We were all told we'd be billionaires. Oh well.

  23. News from 5 years ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This has always been a problem with app-stores. The most popular apps will always be the most popular apps because everyone uses the most popular apps because everyone else uses the most popular apps.

    1. Re:News from 5 years ago by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      You just conclusively explained Windows and WoW.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  24. Try finding games and apps for kids. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Download a few kids games and you'll see what the problem is immediately. They're mostly freemium garbage where "success" requires an endless stream of money. Finding decent games for kids has become a chore. Relying on the "curation" in the App Store is a good way to guarantee you're going to be installing shit games and apps.

    It's so frustrating to see the App Store filled with games where the goal is to manipulate a little kid into begging for in game currency instead of being fun / educational.

    Also, the ads that hijack my browser and open the App Store really need to fuck off and die.

  25. Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...their problem isn't the appstore.

    Their problem is that they are developing for the current underdog (i.e. iPhones/iPads...)

    1. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really. When you're talking about making money, even the pittance they're making is far and away MORE than what they'd make on Android.

  26. What Apple .. do.. app quality. by aliquis · · Score: 1

    On Steam there's the Greenlit section.

    Only vote for what you want, don't vote for the rest.

    However it's abused by developers and bundle makers in that the developers may for instance run a contest where you're supposed to vote it up to be part of it or the bundle makers promising Steam keys if the game is greenlit.

    Hence you get votes for shit.

    If it was more restrictive and shit wasn't let it that might had been a good thing.

    Alternative is to put badges on all the titles where you put gold badges on actually good products played by many, silver on other good/decent products and nothing on the rest or something such.

  27. The solution is simple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All you need to do is remove the app store. Simply curate which apps will and will not run and let people buy apps like they do any other piece of software. Problem solved.

  28. Develop Business Apps by PineHall · · Score: 1

    Matt Asay says there is more certain money when you develop apps for enterprise. "[D]evelopers who target the enterprise are twice as likely to make $5,000 per app per month and 3 times as likely to earn over $25,000 per app per month."

    1. Re:Develop Business Apps by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      You mean you can make more money developing software to do things that people need than churning out the same old crap games and hoping to make money from advertising or in-app purchases?

      I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you!

  29. Most online stores are "broken" by CityZen · · Score: 2

    I'm consistently amazed how everyone continues to make bad online stores when there are good examples to follow.
    Ebay and Newegg are fairly good examples. They have extensive hierarchies of categorization, a healthy supply of
    sensible filters, and, most importantly, they work in a sensible manner.

    Case in point: you navigate down various categories, set up some filters, click on a product, then hit the "back"
    button, and, lo and behold, you're taken back to where you expected to be. With some stores, once you
    click on a product, it loses all the history of how you got there, which is totally nuts. You have to start over from
    the top again. (Or, even if there is a sensible back option, it may be painfully slow to get you there again.)

    Of course, having a tabbed web browser makes things even easier, since I can drill down, set up filters, then
    middle-click on several different products (opening up each in a new tab), and flick between them at will.
    I can add products to a "watch" list, so I can look now and decide later if I want to get it.

    The only way that I use the App stores on iOS or Android are to already know the app I want (from having
    looked at the wider internet), click on "search", and find that specific app. Anything else is just a hopeless
    potshot. I think that Apple/Google know that this is the only method that needs to work, and thus they
    don't try to improve things.

  30. Just one data point here... by Torp · · Score: 1

    ... but I stopped looking for new apps (well, i was getting mostly games) for iOS because there's simply too much free to play shit.

    --
    I apologize for the lack of a signature.
  31. Not sure, never used it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not someone who trusts those places in the first place.

    Not because of malware, but because I saw it immediately as a way to eventually restrict the kinds of programs that can be loaded on your hardware.

    The whole point is to eventually bring this to the PC. Then the Gov. can outlaw something and remotely wipe it from your machine. You'll wake up to find files missing that were recently deemed sensitive. Your recording of police beating you will be remotely wiped off your phone before your lawyer can obtain it.

    The service from the very beginning was about control. I've chosen to never use it. So I couldn't tell ya if it's broken but I sure as hell thought it's very concept was broken since the beginning.

  32. How to fix the app-store by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1) Prevent any paid app from including in-app purchases, require paid apps to present full content unlocked by default, and any future content to be added for free.
    2) Prevent any paid app from being replaced by a "free" version containing in-app purchases.
    3) Segregate demo versions of paid apps, and apps with in-app purchases into their own sections of the app store, taking them out of the FREE section.
    4) Allow users to delete apps from their purchase history.

    1. Re:How to fix the app-store by ledow · · Score: 1

      Don't see what the hell #4 is supposed to do, to be honest.

      But the rest is easier solved with "don't allow in-app purchases".

    2. Re:How to fix the app-store by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      5) in-app purchase total spend limit. Sure if someone wants to spend $1,000 playing candy crush, who are we to stop them? They're probably mentally ill though, so perhaps we should?

    3. Re:How to fix the app-store by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Allowing users to delete apps from their purchase history would allow apple to keep track of that stat. Right now all the keep track of are installs. I've no doubt that a good many apps which gamed the system to get onto the top chart would be relegated to the dustbin of history, if people were allowed to tell apple "this thing is junk and I want to be rid of it, forever" - and if that stat became relevant to the rating.

      As for in-app purchases, they aren't inherently bad, but with apple having basically no regulations on their placement or use, we're seeing a ton of abuses. Just recently I had a game which I bought way back in 2008 (Wild West Pinball) replace the version I paid for with a "free" version that displays full-screen advertizing, during gameplay, with an in-app purchase to remove the obstructive ads. This sort of thing happens because right now, there's no regulation saying you can't do that.

      We've seen what happens when a marketplace runs without regulations. Complete meltdown.

  33. This whole principle is the flaw by Mister+Liberty · · Score: 1

    in the glory over capitalism.

  34. Search and categorization are hopelessly broken by swb · · Score: 1

    I can't tell you the number of times I've searched for games and occasionally other categories and gotten fed up and not bought anything. The categories are mostly unhelpful, the search is completely useless, there's no good filtering, it's awful.

    That being said, I still have dozens of apps, some with obscure features that I don't know how I found them, so it's not impossible to find apps, it's just hard to fine tune a search.

    One filter I would like to see is "Has In-App Purchases" being something I can filter out. Especially with games. I'll pay $10 for a good game, happily, if it is feature-complete without buying add-ons.

    1. Re:Search and categorization are hopelessly broken by JoeCommodore · · Score: 1

      This, Just 'categories'?? really? How about a level or two of additional sub-categories, so when people are looking for say a graphics program they could go to productivity->graphics->cad..

      --
      "Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
    2. Re:Search and categorization are hopelessly broken by swb · · Score: 1

      Categories is plural. I'd like multiple categories, possibly including some kind of tagging so you could find things that overlapped.

      It's not just one-level of category hierarchies.

  35. Not Broken by Petersko · · Score: 1

    It doesn't mean the whole Web Dev "Ecosystem" is broken. It's working fine. People just have unreasonable expectations of it.

    It has changed, and may no longer support the way you want to engage it... if you don't adapt, it's you that's broken.

    1. Re:Not Broken by Narcocide · · Score: 1

      Uh... sadly I'm afraid he's right. Its actually eating itself alive, and only the most experienced can see it. By the time none of us are left, it will be already too late to save the economy as a whole.

  36. Re:MORE STATS!!! by Hadlock · · Score: 1

    Yes, this is idea. The google play store is completely useless for finding top notch apps. As with the PC market, there's usually 2-3 applications that have all the features and aren't buggy and don't have a terrible user interface, and then 1-2 open source options that are very similar, and then 10,000 one-off single feature applets which are mostly useless and ancient.
     
    I don't even use the google play store search function. I just google for lists of top versions of the type of app I need (with this year's year in the search results), then go download/buy that one and hope it stays updated.
     
    I used to wonder why people use brand names when product names are so important. This is why. Complete chaos. In 10-15 years there will probably be an umbrella of 20-30 companies that offer suites of good programs that all work together well. Right now I'm going to avoid a new program by a new developer unless it does proper magic like Word Lens (which is now owned by Google), and just stick with curated lists on %RandomAndroidApprRviewSite%.

    --
    moox. for a new generation.
  37. Sales != Marketing by asz1596 · · Score: 1

    I think the problem here is that people expect that App Store will do marketing for them. Well, it does, in form of the top lists, but they shouldn't really rely on it. What App Store is for is sales: a venue for people to buy your app, when they already know they want it. It is poor for marketing (making people aware of your app and wanting to buy it); you should handle that externally. It's not just an App Store issue either, although it's probably most prominent example - seller marketplaces like Etsy etc. are also exhibiting the problem, but they too can only be considered to be solutions to a sales problem, not a marketing problem.

  38. Re:You mean having a trillion apps isn't wonderful by Noah+Haders · · Score: 2

    I am a billionaire yet I only download free apps. how do you think I became a billionaire?

  39. Easy for Marco Arment to say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Marco Arment is as close as you get to an "Apple Insider" outside of Apple. He's in a chosen clique of developers whose work always gets featured in curated lists in the App Store.

    "Top lists" are not the problem, curated lists into which developers such as him get a backdoor entry by sucking up to Apple regularly are.

    Getting rid of top lists is not the answer, getting rid of curated lists is. Doing so would level the playing field for everyone. If the apps that are currently promoted by Apple truly provide value, people would use them, talk about them, and they would climb up the charts. It's not surprising that a lot of curated apps are also in the top lists.

    After all, why wouldn't you let users decide what they want? And if swamping people with high quality content is the goal, then why not let users decide the metrics of quality?

    1. Re:Easy for Marco Arment to say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck you. I like curated lists.

    2. Re:Easy for Marco Arment to say... by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure why removing the Curated lists would help. If a developer is on neither the charts nor the curated lists, what good is it going to do them?

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    3. Re:Easy for Marco Arment to say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You would keep the charts, but drop the curated lists. It would still be very unlikely for developers to be successful, but at least everyone would get a short in a fair game, rather than having to play a game of cronyism.

      If you dropped both the charts and curated lists and only had search, then that would be fine too. If people want apps they'll find them one way or another, the App Store doesn't need to stuff those apps down their throats. It's partly because the App Store does that that people are in a phase of app overdose and the industry is undergoing an implosion.

    4. Re:Easy for Marco Arment to say... by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      I see, just get rid of the edge for people who get curated. I wasn't sure if you also saw some way that it would benefit people stuck in lower end of the charts. (I wonder if maybe it would encourage people to dig deeper into them.)

      I'm all for dropping the lists simply because they've got exactly the same godawful discovery issues as the charts, in that they tend to recommend the same few popular apps over dozens of different lists scattered around like advertising flyers.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
  40. It was broken when it went live by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    when the MARKET doesn't get to determine what they see in the store, the store is broken.

    You can stock your shelves with as much cat crap as you want, but people won't buy it and
    will eventually quit coming to your store looking for the things they actually want and go to a
    competitor...

    Take note Apple...folks been hop'n off the bandwagon for years already...

  41. better filterintg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd also like to filter on which services the app wants acces to. So I could ignore those that want access to my photos or contact list.

  42. Come my fellow picketers. by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

    We are the 99.98%!

  43. Developers, developers, developers! by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yeah, hate that $13 billion *developers* have made so far.

    That's rather like judging the profitability of web development by how much money Facebook make. The total market value is vast, but extremely concentrated on the success stories and with massive variability.

    This was entirely predictable as soon as Apple allowed user expectations to settle on buying any app, no matter how useful or entertaining, for almost no money. I'm actually a little surprised that it's taken so long for the exodus to really get going, but I guess as long as Apple's own fortunes were improving and thus the market for iOS apps was getting larger, a lot of developers held out hope that they hadn't really picked the wrong strategy.

    Now that Apple's own iOS strategy is looking tired -- I can't remember any exciting new product since Jobs stood down, and iOS 7 seems to be competing with Windows Vista and Windows 8 for the "most unimpressed user base in recent computing history" award -- I suspect all but the bravest app developers or those who already won in the gold rush are checking where the exit is. And thus the vicious circle will strengthen, unless Apple can pull some sort of remarkable rabbit out of the hat to re-energise their once fanatically loyal customer base pretty soon.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    1. Re:Developers, developers, developers! by jbolden · · Score: 1, Troll

      I can't remember any exciting new product since Jobs stood down

      The entirely new MacPro? The Macbook retina. The iPhone 5S including a shift to an entirely new CPU architecture? An new iOS operating system. An entire web / mobile based office suite.

    2. Re:Developers, developers, developers! by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Sorry, but I just don't see any of those things you cited as any sort of game-changer. They are just incremental, evolutionary developments, not radical ideas that will move or create entire markets and lifestyles the way the original iPhone or iPad did.

      The entirely new MacPro... is a moderately powerful PC in an awkward form factor.

      The Macbook retina... is a computer with a high-resolution display but only a small physical area.

      The iPhone 5S including a shift to an entirely new CPU architecture... is a smart phone that can run some apps.

      An new iOS operating system... is a disaster that looks like it was designed for use in kindergarten.

      An entire web / mobile based office suite... is so significant that I hadn't even registered that it was available yet until you mentioned it, probably because the whole idea of running an office suite on a touch-based mobile device is daft.

      So sorry again, but I stand by my previous comments. These things might be decent technology, at least in some cases, but they just aren't anything special, and it was the anything-specials of the Jobs era that made Apple what it is today. If your hardware is no longer a radical advance over what everyone else offered, you need something special in the software instead, but the App Store has... awkward ports of puzzle games with crazy expensive in-app purchases. Oh, and iFart apps.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    3. Re:Developers, developers, developers! by jbolden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They are just incremental, evolutionary developments, not radical ideas that will move or create entire markets and lifestyles the way the original iPhone or iPad did.

        The core of the iPhone (2007) was:
      a) capacitive touchscreen as the primary or sole means of input
      b) animation based interaction
      c) high speed web rendering

      All 3 existed separately in other phones. The only major innovation was Apple putting them together first and seeing how the package would work. The iPhone was an incremental, evolutionary development from the smartphones of 2006.

      If you want a Tim Cook idea that creates new markets the manufacturing process for the iPhone 5. Getting that phone as thin and as light has required manufacturing techniques that have never been used on a mass consumer product. That means entirely new types of factories i.e. entirely new types of machining. Apple's model for that where they produce the machining, let others borrow money for the factory and earn it back creates a new financing model. So there you go.

      The iPhone 5S including a shift to an entirely new CPU architecture... is a smart phone that can run some apps.

      I said the CPU architecture that's entirely new. The instruction handling on that CPU is unique brand new. The instruction classification system it uses is generally not even seen in desktop CPUs more likely server class. There is no reason that this process might far more complex chips to be designed and kept cool.

      but the App Store has... awkward ports of puzzle games with crazy expensive in-app purchases

      What? iPhone has by far the best vertical applications so far of any phone no one else is close and with the pairing with Softlayer's component mobile system this is getting more advanced.

      ____

      Apple hasn't done any innovation if you ignore all the innovations they have done. The graphics model that made the animations possible on the iPhone came out in OSX 10.2 (October 3, 2003). There were not magic products during the Jobs era either. It was a slow process of building a foundation and then expanding from there. It takes years. Most certainly looking back from say 2024 things Apple is doing now will have had that kind of impact. But they haven't had the impact in 10 minutes.

    4. Re:Developers, developers, developers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, hate that $13 billion *developers* have made so far.

      That's rather like judging the profitability of web development by how much money Facebook make.

      That's _NOTHING_ like judging the profitability of web development based on how much money one company is making. The OP made a statement about the ENTIRE DEVELOPMENT INDUSTRY and you're comparing it to ONE COMPANY.

      NOT AT ALL THE SAME.

    5. Re:Developers, developers, developers! by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      I'm not disputing the facts of anything you say here, nor that Apple may have made some excellent technical developments under the hood or that their management team may have introduced commercially useful improvements behind the scenes.

      But the simple reality is that when the first iPhone arrived, every geek and gadget-lover I know was interested. The media was in a frenzy about this new "smart phone" idea. Everyone was talking about it, and quite a few went out of their way to buy it.

      When the iPhone 5 arrived, someone dutifully republished a press release, and the world carried on turning. I don't recall any sense of excitement in anything I read at the time, and I don't know anyone who queued up to buy an iPhone 5.

      In the context we're discussing -- the app development culture for iOS devices, and whether Apple's overall kudos helps or harms the enthusiasm of app developers -- the original iPhone was a smash hit, but the iPhone 5 was an incremental revision of an existing product line. It is just this year's edition of a popular "franchise".

      Same goes for the original iPad, IMHO. Other people had made tablets before. Apple got them right and made them cool and suddenly everyone wanted one. Nothing they've done in recent years generated that kind of interest, IME. Do you know any developer who switched from building some other kind of software to making iOS apps just because a smaller/lighter iPad with iOS 7 came out? Me neither, and that's my point.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    6. Re:Developers, developers, developers! by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's very much the same. App development has become a winner-takes-all kind of industry, where the overwhelming majority of profit is generated by a relatively tiny number of smash hits. A few people got rich making iOS apps. Most people who make iOS apps didn't, and plenty aren't making any significant amount of money at all. That's the point of this whole discussion.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    7. Re:Developers, developers, developers! by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Well, what's the total market then? Probably not a whole lot more than $13B. So what's the financial difference then?

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    8. Re:Developers, developers, developers! by schnell · · Score: 1

      The iPhone was an incremental, evolutionary development from the smartphones of 2006

      Did you actually use any smartphones in 2006?

      The typical smartphone of 2006 - think BlackBerry Curve or Motorola Q - was a keyboard-driven (it may or may not have had a touchscreen, and if it did it probably had a stylus) and optimized to do e-mail and calendaring passably well. The experience of browsing the web on BB OS or Windows Mobile (or, God help you, Windows CE) was so painful as to be something you did in a pinch because you had to, not because you wanted to. Built-in apps were generally carrier-loaded crapware. Don't even get me started on how difficult it was to do things like, you know, make phone calls.

      So the smartphone of 2006 was basically a decent mobile e-mail device, and that's it. The all-touchscreen, web-friendly user experience of the iPhone - remember, back then stuff like "pinch to zoom" was a big deal that nobody had seen before - was radically different. It may have been evolutionary, but it certainly wasn't incremental.

      --
      "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
    9. Re:Developers, developers, developers! by jbolden · · Score: 1

      BlackBerry and Symbian existed at the time and was far more of a smartphone. the iPhone 1 didn't have apps at all. What was new about it was combining those features. I'm not sure what to say other than there weren't any new concepts, vs. what else was out there. They were just put together really well.

      As for the iPhone 5 I'm talking about the product I was talking about the manufacturing process. That was innovative. Customers just got something a little thinner and lighter. I agree that's no biggee. Manufacturers all over the planet stood up and took notice. That was a new arket.

    10. Re:Developers, developers, developers! by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Yes I did use a BlackBerry pearl. I agree with you while I had web it was something I used when I couldn't use a desktop. The applications were really quite good, though pricey. And remember the iPhone didn't have apps.

      pinch to zoom web hits all 3 of my areas. The motion itself is an example of animation based interfaces and capitative interfaces. Those existed on other phones but not combined with a web page.

    11. Re:Developers, developers, developers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the iPod and iPhone did have immediate impact.

    12. Re:Developers, developers, developers! by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      What was new about it was combining those features. I'm not sure what to say other than there weren't any new concepts, vs. what else was out there. They were just put together really well.

      I'd argue that the form factor was novel -- no BlackBerry model of that generation had a full-size screen, for example -- but sure, I agree with your general point. That point is probably even more applicable to iPads, too. However, because, as you seem to agree, Apple did a really good job putting the whole package together, they generated hype and customers, and that in turn generated a market for the apps that would follow and ultimately the whole ecosystem we now know.

      From the point of view of whether iOS is an attractive platform for developing apps today, I think some of Apple's long-standard strategy -- the emphasis on low-price apps, the 30% developer tax, the ability to kill an entire project at will -- are now starting to have the opposite effect. iOS is no longer the dominant mobile OS, and the momentum is all firmly in Android's direction for the foreseeable future too. The 30% tax and the exclusive distribution channel are big downsides for any developer, no matter how successful they are. It used to be that the sheer popularity of Apple gear, and the demographics who would buy it and then passionately advocate for it, could overcome those downsides. That's not so much the case any more, it seems.

      --
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    13. Re:Developers, developers, developers! by jbolden · · Score: 1

      I'd argue that the form factor was novel -- no BlackBerry model of that generation had a full-size screen, for example

      There were other phones with full sized screens: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...

      Apple did a really good job putting the whole package together, they generated hype and customers, and that in turn generated a market for the apps that would follow and ultimately the whole ecosystem we now know.

      Exactly. The original claim was that there was some revolutionary technology. Also that it was immediately apparent that this was a game changes. What was revolutionary was the synthesis of ideas, putting them all together. And it wasn't immediately apparent that this was a game changer and not just another good design.

      ____

      We do disagree on iOS as an app development platform. The iPhone store's revenues have increased to 2x the size of Android play store. Moreover advertising revenue is substantially higher . Finally enterprise development spend is much better, something like an order of magnitude the SoftLayer / IBM partnership is only going to enhance that. It takes a lot of $.99 game to make up for a single $1m enterprise license. So no the momentum is not in Android's direction. Moreover Google's direction is to weaken the app ecosystem further towards better web integration. So I'm disagreeing with you across the board here.

      I think the Apple killing projects is working to the benefit of the platform though is a tough cultural shift for people coming from Android or Windows. They aren't used to a platform owner exercising that kind of control. I don't see how it is really too much of a problem for applications developers that aren't trying to be irresponsible or damaging though. I can only think of a very small number of projects that were even questionably that got blocked. I can think of many projects where developers were required to do something right and that's a good thing.

      What I think in terms of this thread is it is mostly BS. A large numbers of people who design mediocre general purpose applications are finding that they have 0 market on iPhone. The action is in market leaders, niche applications that can sell at a high price and vertical applications that can sell at a high price. Most of the applications that can't be found, can't be found because they are bad. The 30% developer tax doesn't apply there.

      As for low app prices, prices have been going up since 2010. The iPad in particular created the ability to offer a more expensive version and drove prices up not down. The enterprise stuff drives prices way up.

    14. Re:Developers, developers, developers! by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Interesting observation about the other phone. I wasn't aware that anyone else had actually made it fully to market prior to Apple on that score.

      As for the iOS vs. Android situation, I'm not sure we disagree as much as you suggest, but I do think perhaps we are talking slightly at cross-purposes. For example, I agree with just about everything you said about which apps are and aren't successful on the iOS platform today. As I think I mentioned right back in my first post to this thread, I don't see the wildly successful iOS app developers leaving the platform any time soon. However, I suspect those represent only a very small minority of the overall iOS developer population.

      My point there is that simply in terms of the popularity of the platform -- hardware sales, in short -- Apple seems to be losing momentum, while Android devices are gaining market share. I'm not necessarily suggesting that this will result in native Android apps becoming a better market for developers. I don't think I've suggested anything at all like that anywhere in this discussion, and if I did appear to imply that then it was entirely accidental. I'm just suggesting that those iOS developers who haven't either hit the big time in the initial gold rush or carved out a niche where they can stand out and charge sensible money seem to be starting to give up and look elsewhere, wherever that might be.

      Personally, I do have my (and my businesses') bet firmly on web apps being the way forward for a lot of general informational/basic interactive apps for the near future. These work portably across all the main mobile devices and of course desktops as well, they have no lock-in or tax, and most importantly, they don't come with the preconception that something good that cost a small fortune to develop should still be sold for peanuts, which means you can viably invest enough time and money to offer something well polished and comprehensive/innovative/otherwise interesting. We could have built similar things as native apps on each mobile platform, but we saw little if any advantage to doing so.

      The fact that Google seem to be betting the same way, and applying their considerable resources to further that end, and slowly capturing market share from Apple (whether as a consequence or coincidentally for other reasons doesn't really matter) just makes the prospect of developing such projects as iOS apps that much less appealing in the long run.

      As a final point, while there certainly are premium apps out there, typical B2C apps on the App Store are not among them. Sure, prices might be up from 5 cents to 6 cents this year, but based on the stats that have been floating around in various on-line discussions this week, it appears that I already pull in more revenue per month from a side project web app that isn't complete yet and has had almost no advertising than the average (mean) app on the App Store. We appear to have reached the point where anyone who doesn't win big fairly quickly can't actually sustain a viable business writing iOS apps, and any way you look at it, that surely can't be promising for the future of the platform.

      --
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    15. Re:Developers, developers, developers! by jbolden · · Score: 1

      My point there is that simply in terms of the popularity of the platform -- hardware sales, in short -- Apple seems to be losing momentum, while Android devices are gaining market share

      Actually the opposite is happening, which is going to come as a bit of a shock. There is a tendency to consider "smartphones" as a single category which would be very much like grouping "transportation facilitation devices" including planes, cars, bicycles and sneakers. If you look at the market as segmented financially as something like

      $500+ phones
      $300-499
      $200-299
      $120-199
      $80-119
      $45-79
      $45-

      There is tremendous growth in Android at the $80-119 level, caused by people migrating up from $60 feature phones to say $90 Android phones. There is some growth at $120-199 and $45-79. There is actual shrinkage at $500+ and some shrinkage at the top end of the i.e. $450+ phones. The phone market appears to be segmenting in a way very similar to what happened to tablets, where a large price gap is opening up between Android phones and iOS phones with either attracting a different group of users. There is some resistance to this but the trend has been steady for years.

      My point there is that simply in terms of the popularity of the platform -- hardware sales, in short -- Apple seems to be losing momentum,

      Well yes. Their market segment is almost fully converted. So they are becoming a comfortable majority platform with the only possibility being a gradual move towards a monopoly at those price points.

      I'm just suggesting that those iOS developers who haven't either hit the big time in the initial gold rush or carved out a niche where they can stand out and charge sensible money seem to be starting to give up and look elsewhere, wherever that might be.

      I think they are getting jobs as corporate app developers. The enterprise mobility space is exploding. Lots of young entrepreneurs becoming employees. Much more fun to build your dream application than a passenger activity application for a cruise ship.

      As a final point, while there certainly are premium apps out there, typical B2C apps on the App Store are not among them.

      Let me rephrase that. Non niche B2C applications are consolidating. Which is what you would expect in a maturing market. The niche apps are still exploding. App store revenues for B2C are still rising at 50% annually on a platform that is growing much more slowly.

      We appear to have reached the point where anyone who doesn't win big fairly quickly can't actually sustain a viable business writing iOS apps

      Again I'd say non-niche, non-vertical and that's kinda healthy. It creates an incentive to develop a broader and deeper portfolio. Mobility still needs better niche and vertical applications. Which is BTW why I do think it is fine for the future. Developers now need to write apps that are about something specialized and partner with someone with domain expertise.

    16. Re:Developers, developers, developers! by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      "This was entirely predictable as soon as Apple allowed user expectations to settle on buying any app, no matter how useful or entertaining, for almost no money."

      Sounds like you're saying Apple made the mistake of letting consumers make their own choices.

      Would you like to walk into a restaurant and have the cashier or waiter tell you what to order?

    17. Re:Developers, developers, developers! by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you're saying Apple made the mistake of letting consumers make their own choices.

      Yes and no. They let their platform get taken over by the kind of users who will choose to buy $1 "make your iPhone a torch" applications, which makes it less appealing to users who might pay more money for better apps.

      Would you like to walk into a restaurant and have the cashier or waiter tell you what to order?

      In some of the best restaurants in the world, that is exactly what happens, but that's not really the point.

      A better analogy would be to say that you won't go to a fine dining restaurant and find plastic cheeseburger and fries at fast food prices on the menu.

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    18. Re:Developers, developers, developers! by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      I think we have a philosophical difference about the value of affectation, high brow approval from experts.

      To me these are usually indications of smoke surrounding low quality.

      Anecdotally, being the most profitable company in the world suggests to me they are doing something right.

      That being said ... shovelware has been known to doom entire industries (e.g. ET on the Atari, which Nintendo corrected by actively certifying 3rd party titles).

    19. Re:Developers, developers, developers! by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      This was entirely predictable as soon as Apple allowed user expectations to settle on buying any app, no matter how useful or entertaining, for almost no money.

      Are you actually blaming Apple for the pricing decided by the app developers?

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    20. Re:Developers, developers, developers! by strikethree · · Score: 1

      The core of the iPhone (2007) was:
      a) capacitive touchscreen as the primary or sole means of input
      b) animation based interaction
      c) high speed web rendering

      You are forgetting that it was also a phone and a music player as well. Those were also very important.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    21. Re:Developers, developers, developers! by jbolden · · Score: 1

      No I'm not. The other phones had music playback. They were equally capable in that regard. If there was any difference at that point it was the music playback interface. What capabilities did it have on playback that other smartphones didn't that you believe are key?

    22. Re:Developers, developers, developers! by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      No I'm not. The other phones had music playback. They were equally capable in that regard.

      Having "music playback" doesn't mean they were even remotely decent music players.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  44. Re:THIS Re:People expecting their marketing for fr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is funny, you're currently modded -1 for stating "business 101". Wow, people here are so pissy to anything contrary to their world view.

  45. A solution for Top Lists? by Sasquatch6 · · Score: 1

    One of the main problems I've always seen with top lists is that the ones who make it in there stay there, because people don't see anything else. One solution I would propose is that the requirements for listing in a top list change the longer you are there. Sure, you made 10,000 downloads in your first day. great. You'd better make 12,000 the next day. And 14,000 the day after that.... and so on. With that method, even the most popular apps will eventually drop off to make room for the newer apps which are just getting started.

  46. This isn't Apple's fault or their problem by sirwired · · Score: 1

    Apple's job is to sell devices, and to a lesser extent, sell some apps to skim off the top. Apple doesn't owe developers a living.

    A torrent of Shovelware seems to be a phase each new platform goes through (I remember when CD-ROMs became popular, you could literally buy Shovelware from K-Mart that was sold by the foot), and this phase eventually pass here too. Those that suck at it will figure out that app development isn't an easy goldmine, and they'll be less me-too-ware.

    And I'll echo what somebody else said: If your "marketing plan" consists of "upload and wait for the money to roll in" it's no wonder you can't make any money. You have to figure out a means of getting the word out beyond sticking the thing on the proverbial shelf.

    1. Re:This isn't Apple's fault or their problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People don't find my app on the app store. They find my app on my blog, with a link that takes them to the app store.

      Unless you have the front page of the app store, and get the eyeballs, having *content* that drives people to want to use your app to produce their own content is the way to get into the game.

    2. Re:This isn't Apple's fault or their problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And I'll echo what somebody else said: If your "marketing plan" consists of "upload and wait for the money to roll in" it's no wonder you can't make any money. You have to figure out a means of getting the word out beyond sticking the thing on the proverbial shelf.

      That's pretty much the marketing plan was told to use. A CEO (luckily not my boss) told me that since I'm good at programming, I should make an app and earn extra money. Most successful games are quite simple and considering what I have coded so far, I should have an easy time making something great.

      I objected with the following arguments:
      - no idea for a concept for a game
      - no graphical/audio skills (I mainly work on core functionality or embedded devices)
      - lacks an iPhone/iPad
      - even simple games are tricky to design
      - no marketing plan other than putting it in AppStore
      - no idea on how to get anything approved in AppStore

      Even then I was told to go for it. However my own boring engineering point of view tells me that profits are unlikely to even cover hardware costs. Still it somewhat tells why there are so many apps, which are worthless.

  47. The iTMS App store is a strange beast by Overzeetop · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Imagine you have a store the size of you typical WalMart Supercenter, packed with aisle upon aisle of app boxes. There are 5-6 generalized sections, and absolutely no organization within the sections - apps just set in rows on the shelf. Except it's not even that convenient, because when you walk into the store you are in a small space with what are effectively endcaps for each section. To get through to the rest of the store, you have to go around the side of this front display area through a small, unmarked door. So you usually just pick what's on the endcap and checkout because even for people who have wandered into the main body of the store, they find it's just stocked with thousands upon thousands of seemingly identical products for a single task - most of which mirror an app that's on the end cap with a 4+ star review from a million users.

    It's dysfunctional, but in a very Apple way.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:The iTMS App store is a strange beast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now, think about if there was a person at the front door you could speak to and say, "I've come here for one thing and one thing only and that's this new widget my friend told me about/I read about on a website called Joopy Dews". Magically, that item appears in the person's hands AND you can pay them and not go any further into the store.

      "Cool deal, thanks buddy!" on your way out you notice that everyone's doing the same thing, just asking the magical guy to whip up exactly what they want. They ALL are buying based on recommendations, not because they're perusing through the aisles looking for the next big thing.

      True story, was looking for a vector drawing app. Went to 10-20 websites with reviews, found the one I wanted, went to the App Store and bought it.

  48. App Store bugs = Apple's lack of interest & fo by seoras · · Score: 1

    The USA App store appears to be the only one which is bug free and maintained.
    Take for example the UK App store where I used to rank #1 on a keyword pair.
    Great but there are only 2 other Apps with that keyword combo in the UK.

    Then I recently changed my keywords and to my utter disbelief I've dropped off the search results for that keyword combo in the UK.
    In the USA I'm #1 out of 37 for that keyword combo. Same for New Zealand, only 2 App's listed, but not mine, for that combo.
    This would indicate that Apple just doesn't give a sh*t right now, they've no focus on the App store short of keeping the USA one running smoothly.
    Otherwise I'm happy, I'm ranking really well on all the other keywords and combo's and I've seen an 10x increase in installs this month.

    A fair system would rotate the top 10-15 App's dependant on a combination of factors like the average session length, un-install rate, feedback rating, total app revenue, etc
    Don't let's get start on the broken rating system either....

    I hope they don't do a Google and start favouring those who make them the most money.
    The whole Google search is commercially "broken" with it's focus on delivering search results weighted in the interests of Google's "share holders".
    Website's which Google's software deems as "able to pay to display" got chopped off the top keywords a while back.
    A website of mine suffered that fate and in the same month Google bombarded me with emails about getting started on AdWords.
    That move didn't favour the users of Google search, it favoured Google's bottom line.
    If Apple's philosophy of "doing the right thing" still holds post-Jobs then they will (hopefully) come up with an algorithm which favours the best Apps being presented to the users in search results.
     

  49. CrApp Store? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Never understood the benefit of these gazillions of apps... whatever dpkg --list | wc -l returns should be sufficient.

  50. Battling the Free Apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It was an issue I saw in the beginning as well. People would code up a paid app that was decent, and then some asshole would redo the entire thing and toss it up there for free. I dont see how any of these guys can compete with that.

    In the end App developers can not initially depend on the App store to get them much in the way of sales. They need proper web advertising, getting on the blogs, and app website reviews etc etc to build up some recognition. Once they do that they will naturally float higher on the App store. Only other alternative is if their app actually walked on water and was just that great.

  51. They should present a different ranking list.... by AmazingRuss · · Score: 1

    ... on every device. Swap in lower ranked stuff, so the top 100 covers the top 100k.

  52. Shareware anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is nothing new. Anyone remember shareware in the 80s and 90s?

  53. ObBetteridge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No.

  54. There's a simple and obvious solution... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and I'm filing a patent for it!

  55. A 'No-Clones' Policy by balajeerc · · Score: 1

    This is applicable to other app stores as well. There must be a policy which states that any app, cannot be a clone or closely resemble a clone of another application created within the last n months. Developers and users must be given a facility where they can report violations of this policy to the app store. Thus, if I made the next '2048', and if another of the thousands of copy cat app developers decides to clone my application, I can report this violation culminating in the clone being taken down. I think this is the single most important innovation that can help app developers who are really putting thousands of man hours of creative effort in producing an original and compelling application. Abuse of this provision can also be checked by giving app developers a 3 strike policy when it comes to reporting this violation. If a developer consecutively flags three applications as copying his app while in fact they were not, then the developer is barred from reporting any further such violations. A good app-store is a result of good curation.

    1. Re:A 'No-Clones' Policy by Chrontius · · Score: 1

      I downloaded the clone of 2048, because it offered multiplayer and chromecast support.

      Sometimes cloning is the only hope I (and other users) have of getting a critical but niche feature implemented if the original developer isn't interested in implementing it because it's too much effort, or clutters up their app.

    2. Re:A 'No-Clones' Policy by Tanuki64 · · Score: 1

      So, suppose there is an app in the store. I generally need this app, but it misses a feature, I need. Or I am not too happy with the overall user experience and improve parts of it so it better fits my needs. I add a feature, even if a small one, I adjust the user interface the way I like it. For me this app is definitely better than the original, perhaps for others, too. Does this count as copying? Who has to decide this? How different has an app to be to count as work of its own. Or are we all cursed with inferior apps, because they were developed more quickly, sloppy and therefore released earlier?

      Proposals like yours are quickly made, but rarely thought through. They would work fine, if there were only black and white cases, but there never are. As experience in many areas shows, only wannabe block wardens and lawyers benefit from rules like that.

    3. Re:A 'No-Clones' Policy by balajeerc · · Score: 1

      Yes, I admit that denying 'better' clones would be a consequence of the proposal I made above. However, look at the evils of enforcing it: the user misses a few auxiliary (even if they be useful) features. Look at the evils of NOT enforcing it: an ecosystem dominated by predatory developers intent on exploiting the next simple but elegant app idea on the market by cloning it. That design, while being easily copied, took considerable intellectual effort to produce. Copycats like the above, stifle innovation in design - we know this for sure because smaller creative development teams are abandoning app development in droves. In my opinion, this latter scenario is much worse for everyone concerned - Apple/Google, developers, AND end users - than the former.

  56. Race to the bottom by Sockatume · · Score: 1

    The big issue is that there is a "race to the bottom" in apps. There's always someone with deep pockets who can create an app that does what yours does, a little worse, and a little cheaper or for free, and because you've got a market with low discoverability, it's the cheapest app that wins. You only have to look at the startling decline in iPhone gaming over the past few years; after a lot of promising experiments in new titles around 2010-2012, games over $1 now almost exclusively ports of successful titles from other platforms to minimise development costs. The vast majority of iPhone gaming lies under that line, and is dominated by F2P and a few 99-cent apps that win the popularity lottery.

    Apple seems to be actively cultivating that price-driven market, in particular through its ruthless promotion of F2P games as its "free app of the week". It's in Apple's favour because they make money selling hardware, and an iPhone is more attractive if it has lots of apps that do whatever the customer needs for free or next to free. Heck, they've all but killed off several app niches themselves by giving away iWork and iLife. It's not something that can go on indefinitely unless they plan on being the only quality iPhone app developer though.

    If they want to solve this problem, they have to put discoverability of apps back to the fore, so people bother to find good things and not just the first cheap or free option.

    --
    No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    1. Re:Race to the bottom by zisel · · Score: 1

      The truth is only rare people wants to install even paid application and most people wants free.

  57. "entirely new CPU architecture" ? by AC-x · · Score: 1

    "entirely new CPU architecture" ? The A7 uses a 64 bit variant of ARM. If you want a mobile OS that's been ported to completely different CPU architectures then look at Android; It supports ARM, MIPS and x86. They can even run the same apps.

    1. Re:"entirely new CPU architecture" ? by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Getting a Linux to run on a bunch of different architectures was done many years ago. That's not remotely the same or even a similar thing as designing a new strategy for low power CPUs. It isn't ARM that is different. It is the instruction execution strategy and the tremendous internal parallelism that's different. The A7 is amazingly efficient using all sorts of small limited functionality subsystems to execute in parallel.

      http://www.extremetech.com/wp-...

      There are designs like this in the Intel Sandy Bridge but nothing like it at these power levels. For example the ROB is the same size as you see in the Haswell to allow for this much out of order execution!

    2. Re:"entirely new CPU architecture" ? by dave420 · · Score: 2

      You do realise the fact you have to explain all these things to people means they're not as game-changing as you seem to think they are? It's like trying to explain why a joke is funny - if you have to, it's not funny.

    3. Re:"entirely new CPU architecture" ? by jbolden · · Score: 1

      People don't understand what's game-changing when it happens. It is only in retrospect which creates a bias towards events of the past. So for example when movable type was invented it was a substantial improvement to the cost of laying out plates of text and thus allowed for shorter runs. The game changing aspects would take a few more years to become apparent.

    4. Re:"entirely new CPU architecture" ? by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      You do realise the fact you have to explain all these things to people means they're not as game-changing as you seem to think they are? It's like trying to explain why a joke is funny - if you have to, it's not funny.

      Yeah, "it's just not funny" - that's what the people who lack humor and/or are too dumb to understand the joke always say. And they also say "it was no game changer - every product hat came after it was exactly like it, so what was so special?"

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  58. Just more Apple marketing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple is all about marketing and it is very good at stimulating impulse buying habits and making the most of what it has to offer. I see nothing wrong with how Apple markets apps or for that matter content on any of its online stores. It does what every big brick and mortar store does. Grocery stores are typical of having its vendors
    make deals for shelf space and location. In a app store location is all a app has to work with. Obviously Apple wants to sell you apps and not provide you with free ones. Welcome to marketing 101 and yes its not fair to the little guy and yes its all about helping the successful developers who not only make money for themselves.
    But keep Apple happy too.

  59. It's not 'broken' by ColonelClaw · · Score: 1

    I don't think the term 'broken' is correct when it comes to describing the App Store. Technically it works absolutely fine. If I want an app, and know roughly what it's called, I can always find it. The process of buying the app or freely downloading it works flawlessly. There's nothing 'broken' about that. However, I would call the design and layout of it 'completely shit' or 'goddamn terrible'. But not 'broken'.

  60. What I never understood... by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

    For decades, computer games manufacturers have put out limited demos to encourage people to buy the full thing. Some even experimented with DRM to give time-limited access to the full thing. The App Store and iOS give 99.9% security (most iOS users don't jailbreak) so why haven't Apple given the developers a toolkit for time-limited demos? Why are free and paid-for versions listed as separate apps? As an iPad user, I want a proper try-before-you-buy that lets me see exactly what I'm going to get, and if I had that, I'd certainly spend more money. (I could even say the same about Steam, actually...)

    --
    Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
  61. Same problem as brick-n-mortar stores by Imazalil · · Score: 1

    So the complaint is essentially the same as one would have for a brick and mortar store. There is limited capacity to store or showcase content so only the most popular items get to the top/on the shelves.

    I really don't think there is any way around this, unless you have a team of people going through and creating personal lists. Even if you allowed people to create their own 'playlists' of apps it would be full of angry birds or whatever the kids are into. Any 'related' suggestions will still be based around general popularity of an app so it still doesn't help.

    Really, it comes down to you not liking what the majority of the app store customers like.

  62. Blame it on PPI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It seems that the norm for some developers/startups is to just start a pay per install campaign to boost their ranking in the market. While Apple and Google both have policies essentially against this, they don't seem to actually enforce it. This then creates the bubble for the investors to invest in garbage apps that may "look" good, but really aren't actually producing any form of real income. I'm convinced a majority of apps aren't really making money. It's only the very small percentage at the top that make money from app currency in-app purchases required to use the app. These same companies are also the ones engaging in massive PPI campaigns.

    I have an app that I have never put any marketing behind and it has grown entirely organically and by word of mouth. It's had close to 100k downloads and 30k unique user registrations in 1 year and it has somehow been ranked in the top 100 music grossing apps. On Apple, my profit was roughly $600 for the whole year from in-app purchases. Roughly 0.01% have actually purchased the pro version of the app. If my app can be ranked that high and has made that little money, certainly the majority of apps are not making any money and it's all a giant bubble. I actually make 3-5x more money monthly off interstitial ads in the free version than I do from in-app purchases.

  63. Re:App Store bugs = Apple's lack of interest & by PipsqueakOnAP133 · · Score: 1

    Maybe I'll get flamed by somebody for thinking this, but the idea of rotating the top 10's by average session length, un-install rate, and other similar metrics would at the same time be literally asking for Apple to gather usage data about individual users.

    Personally, I don't see that happening. I can't say I'm fond of the idea of invading my privacy by monitoring what I do remotely and spending my battery life simply to augment a store. I'm not even sure which one I find harder to give up: battery life or privacy.
    Given Apple's stance on privacy, I can't see them taking the time to implement such a monitoring system, even if it's reasonably anonymous.

    For Google, on the other hand, this is right up their alley. Power management sucks as it is on Android, so it wouldn't be hard to sneak that by anyways.

  64. Old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.unwesen.de/2011/03/12/app-store-economies/

    Been saying it for a while, you know?