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Hack an Oscilloscope, Get a DMCA Take-Down Notice From Tektronix

An anonymous reader writes with the news that Hackaday published an article on the poor security of the add-on modules that Tektronix sells as expensive add-ons to unlock features in certain of its oscilloscopes. The reader writes: "It has come to attention of Tek's legal eagles and they now want the article to be taken down. Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page?"

200 of 273 comments (clear)

  1. Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page? by frootcakeuk · · Score: 1

    No need when HAD instantly back down and alter the content of the page.

    Also, for it to be a DCMA, doesn't the requested takedown have to have something to do with DRM?

    --
    Remember kids: What's right isn't as important as what's profitable.
  2. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by frootcakeuk · · Score: 1

    Sorry, DMCA. damn typo.

    --
    Remember kids: What's right isn't as important as what's profitable.
  3. Not people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Corporations are not people

    1. Re:Not people by MrKaos · · Score: 4, Funny

      Corporations are not people

      but Solyent Green is.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    2. Re:Not people by DaHat · · Score: 2

      Ever read the Dictionary Act? You know, 1 US Code 1? It disagrees: http://www.law.cornell.edu/usc...

    3. Re:Not people by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

      How does it taste?

    4. Re:Not people by BigT · · Score: 4, Funny

      It varies from person to person....

      --
      Is it weird in here, or is it just me?
    5. Re:Not people by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      You want the vegan, not the dude who lived on potato chips and Taco Bell.

  4. A comment from the linked site: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The car analogy:
    "Owen says:
    July 28, 2014 at 8:09 am
    If you download the trial version of a piece of software you might also have to pay $500 to “de-cripple” features that are already present in the version you’ve got.

    If you download a crack for it to unlock those features because the company didn’t make it difficult enough for people to get around their protection, that still doesn’t make it right.

    I imagine Tektronix just rely on the fact that a lot of people that buy their expensive kit will be businesses and businesses generally have to do things by the book, so they won’t bother unlocking things they haven’t paid for, in the same way Adobe relies on business users to buy Photoshop and mostly overlooks all the home users not paying for it."

    1. Re:A comment from the linked site: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Woops, This is what I meant to post:
      "MRE says:
      July 28, 2014 at 10:41 am
      I think it is more like this:
      You buy a new car, and to save money, you opt for the ‘no thrills’ package. No radio. No electric windows. No heated seats.
      Upon receiving the car, you discover that the manufacturer did in fact install the radio. Did in fact install the electric windows. And did install the seat heaters.
      However, none of them work. Upon further investigation you discover that to have the items enabled, you must pay the difference in price. But, you poke around and discover that in the fuse box (which required a special screw driver to open), three slots are empty: Radio, Windows, Seats.
      You pop fuses into each slot and everything comes alive.

      Was this theft, or did the factory simply give you the stuff at no cost, and hope you would pay them more money when you decided you wanted the options enabled after all?"

    2. Re:A comment from the linked site: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you download the trial version of a piece of software you might also have to pay $500 to “de-cripple” features that are already present in the version you’ve got.

      Yes, and I don't have a problem with that. There is plenty of good software that is downloadable for free and you either unlock all of its features or abort its time-trial limitations by loading a key into it. People will pay for it if they think it's useful enough to them and/or worth it. Software developers with half-a-clue issue a unique code to the purchaser (like a PKI certificate) to unlock the feature instead of the brain-dead text-file-with-the-SKU, though. This has been the norm since at least the 1990's.

      I do have a problem with Tektronix using DMCA to takedown something that does not qualify as an intellectual property violation.

    3. Re:A comment from the linked site: by tompatman · · Score: 5, Informative

      The G37 Sport package includes paddle shifters on the steering column. If you wanted them on a non-sport version though, there was an ebay seller who sold the paddles. All of the wiring and functionality was already there, just bolt on the paddles plug them in and you were done. Car manufacturers include a lot of stuff like this by default because it would be more expensive to install different features based on what the buyer was willing to pay for.

    4. Re:A comment from the linked site: by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      Actually, you, as an individual could enable all fo those things. Same for the oscilloscope. You cannot, however, post online how to do it--at least not according to Tektronics.

    5. Re:A comment from the linked site: by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

      The G37 Sport package includes paddle shifters on the steering column. If you wanted them on a non-sport version though, there was an ebay seller who sold the paddles. All of the wiring and functionality was already there, just bolt on the paddles plug them in and you were done.

      Don't be so sure - if I want to add steering wheel audio controls to my truck, I have to take it to the dealership* to get it programmed (in addition to adding the proper parts), despite the fact that "all the wiring and functionality [is] already there".

      * Or spend a few grand on a Tech II and GM software subscription.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    6. Re:A comment from the linked site: by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Actually, you, as an individual could enable all fo those things. Same for the oscilloscope. You cannot, however, post online how to do it--at least not according to Tektronics.

      So, what Tektronics is saying is that the dissemination of knowledge is a crime?

      Do I even have to point out how slippery that slope is?

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    7. Re:A comment from the linked site: by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 2

      Actually, you, as an individual could enable all fo those things. Same for the oscilloscope. You cannot, however, post online how to do it--at least not according to Tektronics.

      So, what Tektronics is saying is that the dissemination of knowledge is a crime?

      Do I even have to point out how slippery that slope is?

      I agree it is a slippery slope, however, technically, they are correct in that the information being disseminated is from their copyrighted manuals. Posting their copyrighted information has led to the takedown notice. I'm curious, though, if the process could be posted without referencing their specific content - such as "look up the serial number for the feature you want to enable and enter it on such and such screen," instead of "Enter xyz1234 to enable this feature." Technically, if you aren't reproducing their content, they can't use the DMCA to knock it down.

      As long as a how to is produced without using specific content, it shouldn't be a violation.

    8. Re:A comment from the linked site: by CanHasDIY · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I read the original article (thanks to the WayBack Machine), and unless the "copyrighted manual" tells you how to program an EEPROM with an SKU, then I don't see how it's a violation of DMCA.

      Boy, wouldn't that be a kick in the face? For corporations to be able to limit access to knowledge by writing it in a book and copyrighting said tome? Sounds like the premise for a dystopian novel.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    9. Re:A comment from the linked site: by s0nicfreak · · Score: 2

      Unless they copy/pasted (or typed word-for-word) exactly what was in the instruction manual, it's not a copyright violation. It is not a copyright violation to read instructions and re-write them in your own words.

    10. Re:A comment from the linked site: by complete+loony · · Score: 1

      Car? First sale doctrine. It's yours.

      Software? It's not yours, you (most likely) agreed to a license to use it, which may include a fee per feature.

      Are click through licenses, after purchase / install valid? Debatable, and untested in the court room.

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
    11. Re:A comment from the linked site: by whistlingtony · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If they had posted, verbatim, Tektronics documents showing how to do this hack.... that would be a copyright abuse. If I write up some notes on how to hack their scope, that document is MINE, and it is protected by copyright the moment I wrote it.

      I get that the DMCA makes it illegal to circumvent the protections on a copyrighted work.... How is an oscilloscope a protected work?

      Do I get to slap a DMCA notice on a burglar to my house?

    12. Re:A comment from the linked site: by whistlingtony · · Score: 2

      You can quote text. Copyright protects the work as a whole, not snippets of the work. I can quote you a sentence from a popular novel and the author can't do shit about it. Fair Use does still exist.

    13. Re:A comment from the linked site: by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Hopefully you learned your lesson and won't be buying another GM vehicle.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    14. Re:A comment from the linked site: by Garfong · · Score: 1

      Many oscilloscopes are Windows PCs with signal acquisition cards and special software, in an oscilloscope case. So the theory is probably that the pre-loaded oscilloscope software is the "protected work".

    15. Re:A comment from the linked site: by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      If you're scared, then you can get him labelled as a terrorist.

    16. Re:A comment from the linked site: by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      If you modify the config for it to unlock those features because the company put the enable flags for those features in the config, that makes it legal.

      Fixed that for ya. That's essentially all this guy did; he wrote *unencrypted* SKU numbers, available in plain-text on the company's website, to an EEPROM and plugged it into a PCB that slotted into a configuration expansion slot on the device. That's very much akin to creating a config file that the application in your example knows to look for, with plain text values in it. That the file doesn't already exist isn't a form of protection; think about it -- if you buy the unlock for one feature, the file now exists, and it's plaintext -- no protection, just add the feature SKUs to it and enable the rest of the features in your application for free.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    17. Re:A comment from the linked site: by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Well, if you were somehow able to copy the feature code off of the scope (rather than just enabling the feature), and that were not possible before the hack, then I could totally see this as a DMCA violation. Hell, just the act of copying the code off of the scope in the first place would technically infringe Tektronix's copyright. However, while that answers your first question, neither of those things are happening, so it's not really relevant, no matter how much Tektronix thinks and wishes it were.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    18. Re:A comment from the linked site: by houghi · · Score: 1

      A few years ago you could buy a Packard Bell PC and you would get some software with it. If you bought a different modell, you would get a lot more software with it. Often also complete games and a complete Windows Office suit.

      During the first boot it would loo what PC you had, installed that and deleted all the rest. It did this by you typing in the 'pass' code you god with the PC. Later it looked at the serial number.

      A bit of searching would give you the default 'override' password that you had to type in, instead of the standard code and you would have access to all the software with licenses.

      So the image on the HD would be the same for all PCs. Not sure if that is still the case. Not sure if other brands (still) do this. The reason was also price.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    19. Re:A comment from the linked site: by garyebickford · · Score: 2

      An older example: Back in the day, IBM sold two card punch/readers, IIRC the 620 and 630. One was much faster and more expensive than the other. According to what I was told back then, the difference was that the slower cheaper one had an extra circuit board that slowed it down. Remove the extra, and voila! faster - plus loss of warranty, no field service, etc. of course.

      It's quite common on most cars to have a single wiring harness that includes all the plugs for the extra features, possibly for all models of the car. E.g. you might even fit wiring for a station wagon feature in a sedan. This allows a single inventory item to cover all versions of the car (i.e. cheaper), simplifies documentation, and avoids problems with the wrong harness being used, shipped for a car repair, etc. It would also be either impossible or overly expensive for dealers to install dealer add-ons otherwise. The cost of the wire and connectors is so low as to be in the noise.

      --
      It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
    20. Re:A comment from the linked site: by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Meh, these days they're all kind of the same, at least in regard to repairability. I'm certain there's a way to hack it, but my laptop doesn't have a good battery and I haven't yet installed an inverter.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    21. Re:A comment from the linked site: by garyebickford · · Score: 1

      Would a password, or an item code that had to be entered in an instruction, such as "Enter 'F2-ABC' to select the proper module" - would the use of "F2-ABC" be a violation? IDK. It might even be trademarked, and trademarks never expire as long as they are maintained.

      --
      It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
    22. Re:A comment from the linked site: by sjames · · Score: 1

      Only if it is copied. Paraphrasing technical information is not a copyright violation.

    23. Re:A comment from the linked site: by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      Only if it is copied. Paraphrasing technical information is not a copyright violation.

      Actually, it doesn't matter whether it is a copyright violation or not. per the DMCA, publishing how to circumvent a protection is a violation of the DMCA regardless of copyright. The question is whether or not the software running on the oscilloscope is protected under the DMCA and most experts believe it is.

    24. Re:A comment from the linked site: by sjames · · Score: 1

      The DMCA prohibits manufacturing the circumvention device. It does not prohibit describing it.

    25. Re:A comment from the linked site: by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      In my research, the DIC panel is about the only thing on those trucks that doesn't require a reprogram. I've even heard swapping radios requires it, although in fairness I haven't bothered to verify that claim.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    26. Re:A comment from the linked site: by s0nicfreak · · Score: 1
      It could possibly be trademarked. But unlike copyright, trademark is not automatic. They would have to specifically register (and be granted trademark protection; it could - and likely would - be denied) and maintain the trademark for each code.

      In this case, though, this is not what happened though because the email specifically says:

      I have been notified of a posting on the “Hack A Day” website concerning hacking of Tektronix’ copyrighted modules for use in oscilloscopes. Hacking those modules permits unauthorized access to and use of Tektronix’ copyrighted software by means of copying of Tektronix’ copyrighted code in those modules.

      Which to me seems like a purposely confusing way of saying the article is telling people how to violate copyright... but that isn't even copyright violation.

  5. Hack-a-day cowed to Tektronics, unfortunately ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Since this is an abuse of the DMCA law Hack-a-day could have told Tektronics to go fuck themselves, but no ...
     
    After receiving that DMCA notice Hack-a-day quickly changed the wording of the original article (without the permission of the original author, of course)

    1. Re:Hack-a-day cowed to Tektronics, unfortunately ! by frootcakeuk · · Score: 5, Informative

      Don't forget to mention they also changed every single post from commentors as well. Can't say i've seen that before!

      --
      Remember kids: What's right isn't as important as what's profitable.
    2. Re:Hack-a-day cowed to Tektronics, unfortunately ! by ArcadeMan · · Score: 2

      And I don't think you'll ever see something like that on Slashdot, because HEY I'M AN ORANGE, ALL IS WELL, NOTHING TO SEE HERE.

  6. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Using copyright to censor a hack which consist basically in explaining that the crippled features of the oscilloscope can be unlocked using the plain SKUs listed in the very own manufacturer page is a DCMA abuse.

  7. A side benefit of DMCA, perhaps ? by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No need when HAD instantly back down and alter the content of the page

    Perhaps this is not intended, but a side benefit of DMCA is that the use of DMCA against a certain website will give indication of which site has backbone which site hasn't
     
    HAD certain hasn't

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:A side benefit of DMCA, perhaps ? by Sockatume · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Backbone is cheap when you've got the money to stage even a token legal defense, or your hosting provider is a known safe haven from spurious copyright requests. For most of us, it's a luxury we can't afford.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    2. Re:A side benefit of DMCA, perhaps ? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

      There are plenty of lawyers that would take this on Pro Bono or Counter Suit Contingency. And it is perfectly acceptable to simply say, "Go Ahead! Have you never heard of the Streisand Effect" and then sit back and grab a bucket of popcorn as the exact opposite of what they want happens.

      The point being, it is easy to be a coward, until everyone is a coward, then bullies win. The hardest thing to do, is to stand up to bullies, but those that do, aren't going to see much in the way of bullying.

      Personally, if I were a lawyer advising my client, I would love to get them the publicity by advising my client to give a big "EFF YU" to take down notices.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    3. Re:A side benefit of DMCA, perhaps ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      >There are plenty of lawyers that would take this on Pro Bono.

      LMAO, name 'em. It'll be a really short list.

      >or Counter Suit Contingency

      Because DMCA countersuits rake in enough bucks to make the work worthwhile? Yeah, no.

    4. Re:A side benefit of DMCA, perhaps ? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Perhaps this is not intended, but a side benefit of DMCA is that the use of DMCA against a certain website will give indication of which site has backbone which site hasn't

      HAD certain hasn't

      This doesn't follow. "Backbone" only applies when another company is bullying you with no legal basis. Unfortunately, what Tektronix is doing is THE WHOLE REASON corporations had DMCA passed in the first place: protecting themselves from their own stupidity. And it's perfectly legal.

      The only thing this actually serves to illustrate is why DMCA is bad law. And come on, folks, we've know this for going on 15 YEARS now. It's far past time we all stood the hell up and did something about it. Support EFF and EPIC. Write your elected representatives. Etc.

    5. Re:A side benefit of DMCA, perhaps ? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 3, Informative

      There are plenty of lawyers that would take this on Pro Bono or Counter Suit Contingency. And it is perfectly acceptable to simply say, "Go Ahead! Have you never heard of the Streisand Effect" and then sit back and grab a bucket of popcorn as the exact opposite of what they want happens.

      The problem with this idea is that based on the evidence, this DMCA takedown is perfectly legal. Which means if HAD ignored it, they could be taken to court and raked over the coals.

      It's one thing to thumb your nose at baseless cyber-bullying, and saying "You're a fool." It's quite another to be a victim of a bad law, and not really have that option. Sadly, it looks like HAD's situation is the latter one.

    6. Re:A side benefit of DMCA, perhaps ? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2

      What I didn't make clear is: no, there probably aren't many lawyers who would take this on, because from all appearances, Tektronix' takedown notice was fully compliant with the law.

      Yes, it's a VERY BAD law. But it is the law.

    7. Re:A side benefit of DMCA, perhaps ? by muridae · · Score: 2

      That exists for indie sites, HAD was one of those once. It now has corporate backers, who did not mind the original Tektronic article but who seem wary to expend that much defending a suit.

      Were they still a small indie LLC, with little to no resources, they could probably get a Pro Bono lawyer and have fun with it. What would be the worst Tektronics could win? The domain, if things were structured well; but not even the content (posts owned by poster, sub-license to a new LLC to set up a clone site, blah blah blah). But that isn't the case anymore. With a real bank roll behind them, and big advertisers, a lawyer is more likely to ask for money and a suit could be pretty damaging. If their advertisers pull out, the site goes away.

      What confounds me is that Tek went after HAD in the first place. HAD didn't discover the hack, they just posted a link to someone who had a demo key that they had to return, an EEPROM reader that they hooked up, and the brains to spot a publicly available string and wire up another EEPROM to do the same thing. How did HAD suddenly become the party that needs a suit? Other than them just having deeper pockets that Joe Random Hacker.
      And maybe Tektronics is busy with a breach of NDA or some other suit against the guy who tinkered with the EEPROM key that he was being loaned.

      Disclaimer: I read HAD daily. I hope to get some hacks up there eventually, so maybe I have a vested interest in defending them.

    8. Re:A side benefit of DMCA, perhaps ? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Backbone is cheap when you've got the money ...

      I trust you see the inherent contradiction you just made there.

    9. Re:A side benefit of DMCA, perhaps ? by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Irony or sarcasm, perhaps. I don't see contradiction.

      When I was just leaning chess, I thought it the right thing to do to never resign, and fight to the end. Later I realized that this just proved I didn't understand my position...but that was only after working through a lot of endgames.

      When you see clearly that an action will be disasterous, then to go ahead and do it anyway shows stupidity, not courage. A better point would be that Hack-a-day showed that they identified with a smaller proportion of internet users than you would like, or some such. In such a case, when you identify with a wide variety of users you can justifiably engage in personally disasterous actions with the goal of destroying your opposition. In chess this is analogous to a sacrifice play, where a piece is intentionally sacrificed in order to lead the opponent into a disasterous reply. (Think of how it would look if each of the pieces were intelligent, and identified with itself rather than with its side.)

      OTOH, do note that sacrifice plays are inherently tricky, and one usually can't depend on them working as well as one would hope. It's rare than one can really understand the full consequences ahead of time.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  8. wayback machine by sxpert · · Score: 5, Informative

    the article is safely stored in the wayback machine, and i have made a backup away from the reaches of the stupid DMCA.
    yet another project ripe for the application of the streisand effect

    1. Re:Wayback Machine by Sockatume · · Score: 5, Funny

      So it turns out that the "module" is just an EEPROM which contains the module's own product SKU. Which is information that Tektronix provides in their own catalogue. Genius. Nobody will never crack that code.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    2. Re: Wayback Machine by wiredlogic · · Score: 1

      Copyright law seems more applicable.

      You can't copyright non-creative information like data. The SKU is used as a key to enable the option already stored in the firmware. That is why they are invoking the DMCA.

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    3. Re:Wayback Machine by Cramer · · Score: 1

      Of course, you have to know exactly where in the eeprom to put the SKU's. (which wouldn't take long to figure out, btw.)

  9. Wayback Machine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Fear not, the original article is still available http://web.archive.org/web/201...

  10. Tek smeck by labnet · · Score: 4, Informative

    Have never like tek scopes that much, or Agilent. In fact my fav. Scopes are Yokogawa DLM series.
    All the manufacturers do the cripple thing though. If you want free I2C or LIN or CAN or USB or UART, buy a PC scope like a CleverScope.

    --
    46137
    1. Re:Tek smeck by harrkev · · Score: 5, Informative

      In all fairness (and as a former Agilent employee), you would not believe the amount of work that goes into those things that you don't get with cheap PC-based scopes and low-end stand-along scopes. They do a LOT of work making sure that the front end (analog stuff between BNC and A/D converters) is correct. Also, lots of DSP-ish type stuff right after the A/D too. I am a digital designer, and I worked on some of the oscilloscope chips, and I don't even understand a lot of that of that stuff.

      For a hobbyist working with bandwidth-limited signals, and everything is 5V or less, the cheaper brands are probably fine. However, how do you tell if your scope is lying to you? Do you know aliasing when you see it? I have seen some PC-based scopes do the voltage offset (where you twist the little knob to move the waveform up and down) all in software, and seen the clipping in the A/D -- nasty stuff. You really need do to that in the analog front end You also have how many waveforms per second that you can display. If you have a glitch that happens only rarely, if you are capturing only 30 or 100 waveforms per seconds, you might not see the glitch. On the other hand, if your scope is capturing 50,000 waveform/second, you stand a MUCH greater chance of seeing it.

      I do admit that scopes are a pricey purchase, and part of that is due to the low volumes involved and the high amount of R&D. But, if you need something that you can trust (you make your living off design work and are not just a hobbyist), you really need to get something professional from a reputable company.

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    2. Re:Tek smeck by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      It's interesting that Agilent was recently offering all optional extra software features for the price of one. IIRC it amounted to several thousands of dollars of discount. Presumably they were motivated by Tektronix releasing a new scope, and pressure at the low end from Rigol.

      The basic problem seems to be that hobbyists really benefit from this stuff but can't afford it. It's like much piracy - even if you could force them to pay for it they wouldn't, they would just have to go without. Some companies offer a hobbyist license for this reason. If you can get those who can afford to pay to pay (mostly companies) while allowing hobbyists a concession that seems like a good compromise.

      FWIW we recently bought a few Rigol scopes at work on my recommendation, mainly because I have been using hacked ones as a hobbyist. Naturally work paid full price for all the options and bandwidth they wanted.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:Tek smeck by harrkev · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You could say that offering all options at a discount costs them nothing. You could also argue that it does deprive them of revenues. There are arguments both ways.

      It is sort of like Windows 7 home vs Windows 7 pro vs. WIndows Server. They all pretty much share the same code base (maybe less so for the Server version). The only difference is a switch or two.

      If you argue that turning on the FFT and serial protocols costs them nothing, you are right! Once the scope is in your hands, it costs Agilent and Tek next to nothing to enable that feature. For Agilent, it is an unlock code. For Tek, it is a module that costs them only a buck or two to make.

      On the other hand, it actually DID cost something to include those features. A lot of serial decode stuff is done hardware and software. The software costs a lot of money to develop and test. The hardware part adds some cost to every single unit sold, plus the cost to develop that test that. So, imagine that all of these extra features (FFT, serial decode, etc.) were included standard with every scope. This means that the price would have to be raised to cover all of the NRE costs. So, the price of the scope rises for everybody. For those that need the extra features, they are getting a great bargain. For everybody else, they are paying more for something that they don't need.

      So, by locking features that need to be unlocked, you piss off the people who feel like the features are already there, and they are being artificially prevented from doing something that they ought to be able to do. If you unlock everything, you raise the price for the very budget-conscious customers. There is no perfect answer.

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    4. Re:Tek smeck by Cramer · · Score: 1

      Right, because they all put $100k worth of tech in a scope for $4k, and get the rest of it when you pay to use that tech. The hardware costs what it costs; if they can afford to put dormant hardware in the thing, then they're just screwing over their customers. It's like a lot of networking vendors being dicks by including a 10G interface put only allowing to link at 100M unless you pay them $$$$$. Or a fiber channel switch with 32 ports, but only 8 enabled in software.

  11. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by MrKaos · · Score: 4, Funny

    Also, for it to be a DCMA,

    Sorry, DMCA. damn typo.

    It's an acronym for Digital Control My Ass, so you were right the first time.

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  12. Hey Tektronic by MrKaos · · Score: 1
    I want to buy one of your oh so silly scopes now I know it can be hacked.

    oh, dear you're being assholes about releasing broken software - maybe I won't then.

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    1. Re:Hey Tektronic by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Probably a knock-off asian brand. Like the Sozy cassette tape a friend of mine had years ago that he'd bought somewhere in the Middle East.

    2. Re:Hey Tektronic by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      It's a late 80's techno band famous for 'Pump up the hax'

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  13. WebArchive by jiadran · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Google cache was taken down. The original author seems to have agreed to take down the information on his site as well, even without having been contacted him-self:
    https://sites.google.com/site/...

    However, they were too late. The web archive has already archived their pages. Here are the relevant links:

    http://web.archive.org/web/201...

    http://web.archive.org/web/201...

    (not modified)
    https://oshpark.com/profiles/m...
    http://web.archive.org/web/201...

  14. DMCA? by Sockatume · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm not sure that the letter published qualifies as a DMCA takedown request, as it doesn't actually mention any part of the DMCA or any other copyright act that has been broken. I'm not sure that a short keyphrase constitutes copyright-protected matter, for one thing. And it's not like publishing the information violates the noncircumvention part of the Act, because they aren't circumventing an anticopying mechanism. They're circumventing a different mechanism entirely I suspect they're just trying their luck.

    --
    No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    1. Re:DMCA? by SLi · · Score: 2

      A mechanism doesn't need to prevent copying in order to qualify for DMCA's anticircumvention protections; it only needs to control access to a work. That's why you specifically need an exception for phones, among other things, even if phone unlocking does not let you copy the phone or its software.

      "No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under [the Copyright Law]".

      You would be right that this does not qualify as a DMCA takedown request. In this case that doesn't matter very much though, because the letter was sent to the publisher of the article, not only to a mere carrier of the article (like an ISP).

      Normally carriers are not liable for what their customers do, unless they have sufficient (in legal terms, actual or constructive) knowledge of the infringing activity. The idea behind DMCA takedown requests is that by sending a certain formal request to an ISP, where you among other things must allege in good faith that your copyrights are being infringed, you put the ISP formally on notice that certain activity is infringing and thereby oblige the ISP to provisionally remove the content pending a counter-notice from the poster of the content. An ISP still has the option to not remove the content, but in that case it assumes liability if it turns out the content was in fact infringing. Significantly, sending a formal DMCA takedown request to an ISP has three special effects compared to sending a free-form cease and desist letter:

      1) It puts the ISP under a threat of liability if it does not remove the content;

      2) It absolves the ISP from liability towards the customer for removing the content;

      3) It makes the sender of the takedown notice liable for damages and attorney's fees for knowingly materially misrepresenting facts in the notice.

      So when sending a notice to an ISP (party other than who posted the information), it makes sense to send a DMCA notice, because the party has less incentive to act on free-form requests and because it can actually incur liability if it does. Thus many ISPs routinely disregard non-DMCA takedown requests.

      When sending a notice to someone who actually posted the allegedly infringing content, it makes less sense to send a DMCA takedown request. The recipient is liable in any case, and sending the notice puts you in a disadvantage by making it more likely that you are liable for damages and attorney's fees.

      I speculate Tektronix's challenge would most likely fail in this case rather because the information posted is not "any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof" that is primarily designed to circumvent a technical measure that effectively controls access to a protected work. (It certainly is primarily designed to circumvent, but it doesn't fall into any of the enumerated categories of technology, product, service, device or component.)

    2. Re:DMCA? by msauve · · Score: 1

      No one is circumventing (literally, "come around," e.g. bypass) anything. That would be the case if the product's firmware were being hacked/modified to not do the entitlement checks.

      Instead, this is a straight up duplication of the factory hardware which enables entitlements. It's not getting around the protections, it's opening them in exactly the way they were designed to be opened.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    3. Re:DMCA? by SLi · · Score: 1

      Whether the access is gained by the same way or a different way from how a copyright owner would do it is not material to the law; the authorization of the copyright owner is the defining criterion. The law defines circumvention thus:

      to "circumvent a technological measure" means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner'

      For example, most non-authorized decryption would quite obviously be done in the same way as a copyright owner authorized device would do it. This would not make it not circumvention within the meaning of the law; the definition of circumvention is quite broad and essentially focuses on circumventing the requirement for authorization.

    4. Re:DMCA? by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      Is blocking functionality controlling access to a work, though? Can an oscilloscope's behaviour even qualify as a work under copyright law?

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    5. Re:DMCA? by sjames · · Score: 1

      The article isn't circumventing anything. I showed it to my scope and nothing changed.

      Actually carrying out the steps in the article would result in a small device that if inserted into the scope would circumvent it's feature lock,

      For the same reason, a TV show depicting killing someone with a gun is not itself committing murder even if you could copy the steps as shown to commit murder yourself.

  15. This is Danaher Corp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Tektronix is now owned by DANAHER corp. It is the same corp that bought Fluke and declared that nobody else can produce yellow DVMâ(TM)s. Remember the DVMs Sparkfun was importing but were seized at the border? Same company.

    They gobble up good brands, and it seems the production is often sent overseas. Some folks say the quality of those great Amercian brands then suffers. Do a search and you'll see a long list of companies.

    1. Re:This is Danaher Corp by cdrudge · · Score: 1

      Or you could just go here instead of searching (not that it took much to find it.)

      Of the list of companies, I only recognized Amprobe, Fluke, Textronix, and Matco. But I don't really work in most of those industries where the other companies are better known.

    2. Re:This is Danaher Corp by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      Tektronix is now owned by DANAHER corp. It is the same corp that bought Fluke and declared that nobody else can produce yellow DVMÃ(TM)s. Remember the DVMs Sparkfun was importing but were seized at the border? Same company.

      You probably think Apple patented "rounded corners" too and think Apple owns the entire market.

      The yellow-jacketed-DMMs are a Fluke TRADEMARK. They are a design that Fluke uses to make their designs distinct so people can recognize it as a Fluke.

      Sparkfun imported crappy (unsafe) DMMs that violated the trademark and Fluke is right to enforce it. In fact, you can get cheap DMMs that have non-yellow jackets on them (I have one with a blue PVC jacket). Big mistake on their part, the manufacturer may very well be doing it to purposely confuse the issue (and they import it saying "hey, why not, it looks like a Fluke!").

      And no, Apple doesn't own a patent on rounded corners. They own a design patent on a slate with rounded corners with a display consisting of a grid of icons (one row of which is static) that move left or right to expose more icons. Which was not duplicated by Android at all (since the "grid of icons" was the app launcher, separate from the home screen thus not violating the patent), but Samsung decided to model TouchWiz on it (enough so that the original Galaxy S was called "it looks like an iPhone!" by practically every reviewer, something not said about other Android phones on the market) including using very similar iconography.

      Many things are trademarked as well because they represent very distinct elements of the brand. The sound of a Harley-Davidson motorcycle, the layout of an Apple Store, the 4 squares that make the Windows logo, Tux the penguin, the Android robot, etc. I'm sure no one would appreciate if someone put Tux on their own OS that doesn't run Linux, or a smartphone OS that features the Android robot as people would think it ran Android.

    3. Re:This is Danaher Corp by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The yellow-jacketed-DMMs are a Fluke TRADEMARK.

      Actually they are "trade dress", not a trademark. Trade dress is a nice compromise between stupid design patents and companies cloning each other's products. Essentially Fuke DMM trade dress is grey plastic with a particular shade of yellow jacket, and buttons arranged in a grid.

      They own a design patent on a slate with rounded corners with a display consisting of a grid of icons (one row of which is static) that move left or right to expose more icons.

      Unfortunately that design existed long before the iPhone did, so even if such design patents were not fundamentally stupid that one should be invalidated by prior art.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:This is Danaher Corp by Rich0 · · Score: 2

      Well, the lawsuit is something new, but Tek has been using software-unlockable features since the 80s as far as I'm aware.

      It doesn't make sense for them to have 14 different front-end designs and software designs to allow for different feature sets. On the other hand, the cost to develop the high-end features is higher than developing a cheap scope, so they don't want to just give that stuff away for free. From what I understand there is some really good design in the high-end gear.

      So, if you want companies to produce really high-quality gear, you have to pay them for the effort somehow. If they only sold one high-end model for a very high price and a different low-end model for a low price you still wouldn't get the high end features for free, and it would actually raise the cost to buy either. By having a consolidated design it lowers their total costs and thus everybody's price.

    5. Re:This is Danaher Corp by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      I do believe that based on limited number of colors, one should not be able to trademark or block merely the color.

      Well, the interesting thing about the "rule of law" is that your individual opinion concerning whether one should be able to trademark a color is just that -- your individual opinion.

      Meanwhile, the law says that Fluke can do that, and the USPTO has said that Fluke can do that, and a court has said that Fluke can do that, and US Customs listens to those entities.

      BTW: GP was wrong. The registration is for a trademark. Whether you choose to call it trade dress because it relates to packaging/construction and separately consider a trademark to be symbols and other abstract graphics does not matter, it's all the same under the trademark act. 15 U.S.C. sec. 1052; Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. v. Samara Bros., 529 U.S. 205, 209-210, 54 USPQ2d 1065, 1065-66 (2000).

  16. That is surely going to work by Brandano · · Score: 2

    Because who bought their oscilloscopes is unlikely to have the expertise necessary to replicate this hack. It's not like they are people that work with digital electronics every day. I wonder what combination they use for their briefcase.

    1. Re:That is surely going to work by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Just looked at product page - this is mixed signal 200MHz scope. They don't even put price on it, you have to request a quote.

      From some googling it looks like a few grands worth of scope so not totally out of the reach of hobbyists.

      not to void warranty of their instruments.

      From tek's POV the nasty thing about this hack is that it's quite hard to prove someone used it. AIUI the whole point of using modules (rather than serial number tied unlock codes) is to let you move options between scopes. So even if the scope records what modules have been used in it how do you tell the difference between someone using a cloned module and someone using a borrowed module.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  17. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by 91degrees · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Also, for it to be a DCMA, doesn't the requested takedown have to have something to do with DRM?

    The DMCA doesn't mention DRM. It mentions somethign along the lines of mechanisms that prevent access to protected works (software can be a mechanism for the purposes of the act).

    Personally I don't think this should qualify as infringement since it prevents use - which should not be a copyright violation - rather than duplication, but that's my opinion on what the law should be rather than what it would be when interpreted by the courts.

  18. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by JosKarith · · Score: 1, Funny

    And here I was thinking it was Don't Copy My Ass...

    --
    'Don't worry' said the trees when they saw the axe coming, 'The handle is one of us.'
  19. This is why we can't have nice things by jones_supa · · Score: 1, Interesting

    An anonymous reader writes with the news that Hackaday published an article on the poor security of the add-on modules that Tektronix sells as expensive add-ons to unlock features in certain of its oscilloscopes.

    The add-on modules are expensive because you pay for the features they unlock, not for the components of the unlock device itself. It's a dongle.

    This guy is essentially trying to cheat. It's like you could unlock some cool DLC content for a game, but instead just went cracking the encrypted data files and getting that content without paying the game company.

    Hey, if you don't like a scope which has this kind of feature unlock capability, just don't buy it. But stop messing with other people's legitimate business. I can understand why Tektronix is upset about this.

    1. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by Sockatume · · Score: 4, Informative

      A poor analogy. You would have to actually download the DLC files first, in almost all cases.

      And he's not cracking encrypted data files, he's putting in a cheat code, which happens to be the name of the DLC, because the company are morons.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    2. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Informative

      The add-on modules are expensive because you pay for the features they unlock, not for the components of the unlock device itself. It's a dongle.

      This guy is essentially trying to cheat.

      I disagree.

      To me, they've sold you a fully functional product, and only for extra money will they 'license' you to use all of the features.

      So, imagine you've bought a car, it's got an awesome radio and a turbo charger and a backup camera. They're hooked up and working, just not active unless you shell out a bunch more money.

      This is saying we'll give you the rest of the functionality of the device we've sold you if you'll hand over more money.

      This is intentionally making a crippled product, and then gouging your consumers to get the full version.

      I see this as just rent seeking, and a business model based on upgrades.

      I don't see this as legitimate business, I see it as gouging the consumer and getting found out that your "upgrades" are doing nothing more than unlocking functionality you already have.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by kbg · · Score: 1

      No actually most DLC files are already on the disk. The only thing you download is a small file containing the key to enable the DLC.

    4. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by cdrudge · · Score: 1

      I forget, what does the D in DLC stand for?

    5. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by kbg · · Score: 1

      "Downloadable", that doesn't make it true though just because it is in the name. Just like DRM doesn't actually give you any "Digital Rights" or "Microsoft PlaysForSure" doesn't actually plays for sure or "Disney FastPlay" isn't actually fast play.

    6. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Bulldust.

      This kind of thing happens a lot where manufacturers make a product (hardware/software) that is feature-rich and the consumer chooses which features to pay for.

      Breaching unpaid-for features is theft.

      It's real simple, folks: Pay for the stuff you use.

      As for TFA, while it's questionable that publishing a "how to," violated DMCA, not in question is the wisdom of getting into a pissing contest unnecessarily.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    7. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      Even in the instances where some DLC resources were on the disk (e.g. the infamous "From Ashes" day-one DLC) most of the actual game logic usually has to be downloaded. The whole point of that sort of DLC is that you can ship part of the game in an incomplete and untested state and work up until the launch day on debugging and refinement. (In From Ashes' case, it was a huge chunk of the game narrative that had been reworked in aid of a different ending.)

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    8. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by fnj · · Score: 1

      Breaching unpaid-for features is theft.

      You are so full of bullshit that it is leaking out of your nose. Shill.

      Theft: the wrongful removal of personal property. You have to deprive some owner of the benefits of his ownership. Tangibly. Never mind bullshit like "presumed profits now unrealized". Nobody is taking away anything that belongs to anybody else here. This is simple reverse engineering (a rather trivial form of same) which has been a natural right since time immemorial. Not until governments were completely bought off by fucking soulless corporations did patently immoral and unfair shit like the DMCA get passed into (grossly evil and illegitimate) law.

      Suppose someone actually discovered a natural fountain of youth, took ownership of it by bribing the government, and merchandised it. Suppose he sells 100 ml bottles of it labeled "plant food" for $5, and 100 ml bottles of it labeled "cancer cure" for $500,000. Let it be stipulated that they both "work"; i.e., they are effective in their labeled applications. Now someone analyzes them both chemically and determines that they are identical. So he publishes his findings on the internet and points out that you only have to spend $5, not $500,000 to cure your cancer. Theft? HELL NO.

    9. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by kbg · · Score: 1

      The Interweb disagrees with you: http://disclockedcontent.wikia...

      You can also add Gears of War 3 to that list.

    10. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      That's one reason. The other reason is to peanalise buyers who buy the game used.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    11. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      "You have to deprive some owner of the benefits of his ownership."

      You stepped on your pee pee.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    12. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by fnj · · Score: 1

      That's the best you got? Did you even look at the definition of "theft"?

    13. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Did you even look at the quote I lifted from your quote?

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    14. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by vux984 · · Score: 1

      "You have to deprive some owner of the benefits of his ownership."

      That quote?

      The 'owner' is the guy who bought the oscilloscope. The guy who sold it to him doesn't still own it.

    15. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Wrong.

      The "available options," belong to the vendor until the customer pays for them.

      Right?

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    16. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by vux984 · · Score: 1

      The "available options," belong to the vendor until the customer pays for them. Right?

      That's the question. But think about it for half a second.

      Scenario 1: If I buy a base model computer, notice it has an unused slot, and add a PCI card ... am I stealing from the vendor? I didn't buy the card I put into that slot from him. What if he sells the same card I bought? Am I *STEALING* from him by adding an "available option" from another source?

      Scenario 2: If I buy yet another computer, and this time I want to do some GPU computing, but the version of the drivers installed don't have it enabled. The vendor again makes, for a price, drivers available that have it enabled. But its a bog standard nvidia card -- I can get the reference drivers from them, and the feature comes online. Am I stealing? The hardware I bought already had the capability; is it theft for me to install (or write) software to use it?

      Scenario 3: I buy a bog standard high end consumer router from Netgear or Dlink, install OpenWRT on it and can now do all kinds of things with it that I'd normally have to buy much higher priced gear from the vendor to do. Am I "stealing" from the vendor?

      Scenario 4: One more computer, same GPU computing requirement, this time the vendor even installed the GPU enabled drivers, but went into the registry and disabled it. He offers, for $$ he'll enable GPU computing for me. Or I can just edit the registry and turn it on. Am I stealing now? I bought the hardware, and the copy of the software.

      Why on earth does the vendor still retain rights over what registry settings are set?

        If I wipe the computer and install linux and use it as a server when the vendor only sold me a "desktop PC for facebook" am I stealing because I didn't buy his "datacenter server PC" what if the 2 pc's turn out to be exactly the same, and the only difference all along was price?

      Arguing that the vendor owns the possibility of you doing things with it that you didn't expressly pay the vendor for leads to absurdities. Next thing you'll be saying I owe Adidas money because I'm playing basketball in shoes I only paid for walking and running capabilities with. If Adidas sells the exact same shoe but in a box with the labels "Walking, Running, Basketball" and charges more for it, am I now stealing?

    17. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      It stands for "screw the customer" many companies have been sprung including DLC in the original product DVD and all that was downloaded was the unlock code.

    18. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Is hate tosee the cost of these complicated to develop and low volume products of they didn't do this.

    19. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but when it takes that much narrative, it's because the guy was stealing.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    20. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but when it takes that much narrative, it's because the guy was stealing.

      Ok... TLDR version:

      He wasn't stealing because he already literally physically owned the thing he is alleged to have stolen.

      That it needs more narrative than that is because you are being deliberately obtuse... perhaps even outright dense.

    21. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Recall that we learned all we to know about theft in kindergarten.

      The choice is clear: Pay up or steal.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    22. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Recall that we learned all we to know [..] in kindergarten.

      That once you trade some marbles, the marbles you traded are someone elses now? You don't get to control what he does with them, take them back, or demand something additional for them after the fact?

      Didn't they teach you that too?

    23. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      They taught me how to tell the difference between bullshit and wild honey.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  20. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Personally I don't think this should qualify as infringement since it prevents use - which should not be a copyright violation - rather than duplication

    I agree with you, but the law has more or less been written to allow corporations to maximize profits.

    In truth, I think the DMCA is so broadly written that if they had a default password of "password", their level of incompetence at security is irrelevant. What matters is they had a pretense of security.

    In this case, they've locked out functionality which is already there, and are charging for access to it -- or it sounds like that.

    I agree that it's your device and you should be able to do anything with it, but apparently publishing it so allow other people to not pay for already there features is a bad thing -- because it interferes with a shitty business model and involves a digital lock.

    I think in general, people should just start posting reviews of Techtronix saying they're greedy bastards who sell crippled hardware and then charge ransom to unlock it.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  21. SOP for Test Equipment makers by x0 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    All of the manufacturers now ship devices fully kitted and use licenses to unlock/enable additional features. It's less expensive to manufacture one SKU, and then differentiate models by selectively enabling features.

    At least one of the Chinese manufacturers has know about these hacks for quite a while and apparently isn't doing much about it. I expect that they are allowing this to obtain more market share from the hobbyists as I doubt most commercial operators would void warranties.

    Tek is essentially selling a software package as a value add, and they'll charge what they can until Agilent/Keysight one ups them with less expansive software.

    --
    In the immortal words of Socrates, who said; 'I drank what?'
    1. Re:SOP for Test Equipment makers by delt0r · · Score: 1

      So when will this magical free market fix things and have someone sell a fully featured out of the box scope at the base model price?

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    2. Re:SOP for Test Equipment makers by x0 · · Score: 1

      So when will this magical free market fix things and have someone sell a fully featured out of the box scope at the base model price?

      Why are you expecting a 'fully featured' box for base model pricing? What is fully featured? What needs fixing? Products have tiers, and while the HW (sometimes) is the the same across those tiers, the software is not. Expecting that software for free is unrealistic.

      As for the market driving prices down, it's happening all of the time. Rigol released the DS1052 5-6 years ago for cheap, and that drove Agilent to release the DSOX2000 at a pretty good price. The Rigol DS2000A is very competitive with the low end Agilent and Tek scopes, and will further drive down the costs.

      On this site, I'd expect more people to call for an open architecture where OSS analysis software could be loaded to fully utilize the hardware versus complaining about 'fixing' things to make the high end models cheap.

      I

      --
      In the immortal words of Socrates, who said; 'I drank what?'
  22. Who'd buy a Tek? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Then complain the modules are expensive? Get a Rigol. If you even still need a scope nowadays.

    This scope worship is baffling to me. Sure, Tektronix was instrumental (ha ha) in creating the modern oscilloscope and built really good ones, but that was decades ago.

    With today's very small features and gargantuan SoCs, what's the use of a scope? 99% of the time all you need is a DMM and a logic analyzer, the system can diagnose itself as long as the power is good!

    And for hacker/hobby stuff, it's not the '60s anymore. I think scopes have become like a hardware fetish for some people.

    "OOoohh gotta have one!"

    "Um, what for?"

    "CUZ YOU GOTTA HAVE ONE!!!!"

    1. Re:Who'd buy a Tek? by Teun · · Score: 1

      If you run a lab and a CIO or CFO comes in the scope is an essential part of your work's legitimacy, even if it's just hooked up to the headphone output of your media player.

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    2. Re:Who'd buy a Tek? by kilodelta · · Score: 1

      You obviously don't do any RF work.

    3. Re:Who'd buy a Tek? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      With today's very small features and gargantuan SoCs, what's the use of a scope? 99% of the time all you need is a DMM and a logic analyzer, the system can diagnose itself as long as the power is good!

      I am SO glad you know more than all of the engineers at our company! Why don't you come show us how your logic probe can can measure the rise and fall times of a signal, and measure the reflections caused by a bad trace on a board. We could then get rid of the 30 or so 16 channel 500MHz scopes that we use every day.

      TWIT

    4. Re:Who'd buy a Tek? by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Only for the no skill guys that dont really do any design or hacking.

      Please feel free to show me your technique for RF transmitter hacking without a scope, hell there are thousands of things that a scope is useful for that really open up abilities.

      Honestly only the poesur that really cant do shit in electronics say that a scope is not needed.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    5. Re:Who'd buy a Tek? by macs4all · · Score: 1

      With today's very small features and gargantuan SoCs, what's the use of a scope? 99% of the time all you need is a DMM and a logic analyzer, the system can diagnose itself as long as the power is good!

      ...Sez the guy who's obviously never designed any hardware that operated above 100 kHz.

      You do realize, of course, that there are still a LOT of what would typically be called "analog" design considerations even in what you would obviously consider purely "digital" designs; and that the terms "analog" and "digital" become less and less meaningful to the hardware designer (especially once you start laying-out a PCB) as clock frequencies start to go up and up.

      Stick to what you know; not to what you think you know.

      I am an embedded developer (for both hardware and software) with over 30 years' of employment in the field.

      How about you?

    6. Re:Who'd buy a Tek? by delt0r · · Score: 1

      Of course you use a scope/samplers with RF (at uni, we use scopes a lot). And yea quite a few hobbyist mess around with that stuff too. For fun.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    7. Re:Who'd buy a Tek? by fnj · · Score: 1

      what's the use of a scope?

      It may very well be that the necessity of a scope is less widespread today than in times past. However, when the argument is made that analog circuits are dead nowadays, it is HIGHLY questionable. The simple fact is that the real world, and ALL circuits built in the real world, are, when you come right down to it, fundamentally analog. True, if all you ever did was hook up single standalone "digital" ICs to power and done, then you wouldn't need a scope. But think, whatever you are building has to have SOME input from somewhere and has to output to SOMETHING. Now you are interfacing time-varying voltages and currents, almost certainly with some degree of parallelism. Those parts all have analog attributes: logic level voltage windows, rise times, pulse widths, current source capability, input capacitance, etc.

      I remember when we were no longer able to source the latches in an in-house circuit used in a product. So we substituted a "better" one. The minimum strobe pulse width required was shorter. How could that ever be bad, right? Well, we started getting glitches where latches were triggered when not addressed. Not addressed on purpose, that is. Turns out the decoder chips always had very brief glitches during state changes, but they were never a problem until the strobe inputs they were connected to were actually able to "see" those glitches. We found that one on a scope.

      Cruel fact: even when you set, say, 4 bits of a single output port of a microcontroller in a single atomic instruction, you don't get a perfect idealized syncing of the 4 transitions to within a 0.0 nS window. If those 4 bits are inputs to a decoder, you've got a potential glitch in the decoder output.

    8. Re:Who'd buy a Tek? by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      A scope is really not that useful for many things these days.

      I disagree, a scope is the go-to tool for poking around an electronic system that isn't working as you expect checking which signals are doing what you think they should be doing and which are not.

      A logic analyser does have advantages over a scope (more channels, more decode capabilities) but it won't tell you that the IO voltage is wrong or that a line is sitting at intermediate levels because of conflicting drive.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    9. Re:Who'd buy a Tek? by macs4all · · Score: 1

      I develop boards running at 40Gbps+. "Scopes" (DCA really) at that level become so expensive and esoteric, we often design "blind". Just getting the probe to stay put for five minutes is a major accomplishment, and you still have the feeling that the probing loaded the signal anyways.

      Good for you! Now you admit you should know better!

      I agree that at those frequencies, "scopes" are very expensive, and signal-loading from the probes themselves is a real problem.

      But I also point out that not one "hobbyist" out of 100,000 is designing in that world. But they probably often ARE developing mixed-mode Analog/Digital designs, where things like ground-bounce (which BTW, does matter in purely digital designs as well), supply filtering, analog signal paths, and the like, are simply not amenable to either "blind" development, nor your "DMM and Logic Analyzer" approach.

      The answer is, you stepped in it; but rather than concede that you were being hasty in your dismissal of oscilloscopes as some sort of engineering dinosaur that should go the way of the slide-rule (slide-rule enthusiasts give it a rest!), you instead simply keep attempting to defend the indefensible.

      Pretty immature and illogical, don't you think?

    10. Re:Who'd buy a Tek? by anybody_out_there · · Score: 1

      The simple fact is that the real world, and ALL circuits built in the real world, are, when you come right down to it, fundamentally analog.

      This. I've done embedded designs for over 20 years and this is a rule I live by. Even digital circuits are analog!

  23. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by 91degrees · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Yes. You may be able to guess the password, but based on the "reasonable man" test, I think most people would assume that you weren't meant to guess it. I don't have a problem with this in principle. I do have a problem that it seems to allow companies to extend the reach of copyright.

    My way of seeing it is that anyone who buys the oscilloscope has a legally acquired copy of the software. They just can't access it. Actually accessing legally acquired software should not be illegal. It's not like there's a business model that would be unsustainable without the protection. If they don't want people to use the software, then don't give them the software. If they pay extra then provide the software.

    I agree with your desscription of it being "crippled". This is essentially a law criminalising repair. In the physical world, if I were to sell off faulty stock (which is legitimate as long as I was honest about the fact that it was faulty), I would not be able to use the law to prevent them from repairing it, even if the buyer was competing with my repair business.

  24. lexmark tried to use the DMCA to lockout 3rd party by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    lexmark tried to use the DMCA to lockout 3rd party ink and lost in the courts.

  25. Analog by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

    Nobody ever does work with analog circuits...

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    1. Re:Analog by rhodium_mir · · Score: 1

      I don't own a fishing boat because if I want fish I'll just buy it at the store. Why do fishing boats even still exist?

      --
      You can't spell "oneiromancy" without "roman".
    2. Re:Analog by macs4all · · Score: 1

      I don't design and build my own brushless motor controller for example. What the hell for?

      Hey, I designed that Brushless Motor Controller, you insensitive clod!

    3. Re:Analog by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      You'd be amazed at the quality of the parts that went into 60's high end test gear. Let's just say that in that era the Asians were busily focused on making shitty six-transistor AM radios. Not counterfeiting shitty electrolyte into caps that went into any equipment that mattered. The calibration in, for example, my Fluke Differential Voltmeter is rock solid. Can't say that for any newer gear where the 'calibration' is some battery backed-up RAM block.

      The calibration cost for older Tek gear and plugins can be frightening, though. Because there are tweaks for everything. So a high three figure calibration bill for a high frequency differential plug-in is to be expected. But the stuff just sits there with the tweak points solidly in place, so it really doesn't go out of spec very fast.

    4. Re:Analog by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Or did you really mean 1960s-style crotchety nasty old crappy electronics with 2N2222 and SCRs and diodes and neon lamps?

      It's okay to be afraid of something you don't understand anymore (for some reason.) It's not okay, however, to spatter the piss running down your leg all over it. Go ahead and stick to slapping together the modules that the marketing reps from the parts dealers tell you will do the job right. Your boss is probably stupid enough to buy into it. Glue the whole mess together with some DSP software. We're impressed.

      Saving money is: a dual op-amp design that costs a quarter cent instead of using a microcontroller that costs eight cents.

    5. Re:Analog by Agripa · · Score: 1

      Differential amp with mV sensitivity but with hundreds of volts of common mode range? Yeah, and? Who cares?

      These are handy for offline switching power supplies and high power audio amplifiers.

      DC-50MHz current probe? Again, who cares? If you're that determined to get a current waveform, design your board with a current to voltage chip. You know, those systems on a chip? Then use a ADC and pump the data out to a PC.

      These is also handy for switching power supplies and it is not always convenient to design in a ground referenced current output.

      Analog? You mean a code word for "thinks he's saving money but is actually wasting time"?

      I do not know why they even train analog engineers anymore.

    6. Re:Analog by Agripa · · Score: 1

      You don't need a recent Tektronix for that. As a matter of fact, I have a Tek 547 with a full suite of plug-ins. Does everything I need, and will probably continue to do so even after I'm dead. The scope's already half a century old, the original owner died 20 years ago.

      A Tektronix 547 does more than most need and some things modern DSOs cannot like alternate sweep. My solution for that was to buy two of the same DSO.

      I don't design and build my own brushless motor controller for example. What the hell for?

      Oddly enough, Tektronix did design and build their own brushless motor controllers for maybe 2 decades.

    7. Re:Analog by Agripa · · Score: 1

      For an older analog oscilloscope calibration is not difficult but for one that stores the calibration data digitally, calibration can be a problem.

      Changing aluminum electrolytic capacitors is just another maintenance task for a test instrument old enough to need it.

  26. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

    Don't worry, I'm sure Tektronix will suffer the full penalties of abusing the DMCA. *doles out zero penalties* There, done.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  27. Re:Defective by Design by jones_supa · · Score: 1

    Good choice. Buying from another vendor sends much better message than buying the Tektronix product ("hey, I like your artificially crippled products, please make more") and then going with the pirate modules.

  28. VHS machines. by tekrat · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Back in the day, a lot of manufacturers sold different types of VHS recorders, some with more "features" than others. It turned out that all the "buttons" were there behind the plastic faceplate, and it was just the faceplate itself that determined which were the cheap/feature-less models and which were the more expensive models.

    And of course, simply prying off the plastic revealed the extra features.

    So, back in the day, would that be a DMCA violation? Would that be theft? Would the IP police be busting down my door and holding a gun to my head for removing a piece of plastic???

    'Cause that's what we're headed towards, boys and girls.

    --
    If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
    1. Re:VHS machines. by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      Back in the day, a lot of manufacturers sold different types of VHS recorders, some with more "features" than others. It turned out that all the "buttons" were there behind the plastic faceplate, and it was just the faceplate itself that determined which were the cheap/feature-less models and which were the more expensive models.

      Interesting. This reminds me of some current news sites that are paywalled by CSS, and everything is readable when you disable CSS.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    2. Re:VHS machines. by complete+loony · · Score: 1

      Or calculators 20+ years ago. My dad used to recommend one of the cheaper programmable calculators to his students, suggesting they cut a hole to press the missing button.

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
    3. Re:VHS machines. by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      Normally that's done to let them turn defective merchandise into a functional product. Those disabled features probably didn't all pass QA testing, whether because they just plain didn't work or were out of tolerance. Later in an item's production, there might just not be enough of a market for the expensive model and they'll start shipping perfectly good inventory as the lower-spec model too, just because the increased cost loss per unit is smaller than retooling the assembly line. This goes on to this day in things like GPUs and CPUs, and there doesn't seem to be much of an objection from manufacturers when people circumvent it given that you're using the product "at risk".

      So, I think economically, you're unlikely to see it become a problem.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    4. Re:VHS machines. by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Also, in the case of something like a VCR, just because the buttons are there behind the panel doesn't mean they'll actually function. It may be cheaper just to produce one button panel and cover up the ones that aren't applicable, but that may not be the case for the drive mechanism or the heads.

  29. FU techass by AndyKron · · Score: 2

    Old tube scopes turned on faster than the shitty new ones from Techtronix

    1. Re:FU techass by InvalidError · · Score: 1

      Many analog scopes had many more trigger options than that.

      But with modern low-end scopes like Rigol's DS1xxxZ-series featuring relatively deep memory, 20k waveforms per second trigger rates, intensity grading, up to 1GSPS sampling rate (single channel), relatively easy hacks to enable all the options, segmented memory to record events, pass/fail mask, etc., the 10-20 second startup time on an instrument most people will usually use for hours at a time is well worth it.

      Nowhere near as bad as Agilent's Windows-based bench multimeters that take nearly two minutes to boot... but even that is fine since they need ~10 minutes of warm-up time to fully stabilize before you can get the full 6.5-digits precision.

      Boot time in lab instruments is a silly thing to worry/bitch about when most instruments have long warm-up times and should ideally be powered up 10-30 minutes before use anyway.

  30. The Streisand effect strikes again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    By now, most people interested in this, who might otherwise never heard about it, know about it. Good work, Tektronix lawyers. Welcome to the Streisand effect.

    1. Re:The Streisand effect strikes again by mark-t · · Score: 1

      They might now know about it, perhaps... but don't know how to actually perform the hack, since H.A.D. modified the web page.

  31. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by omnichad · · Score: 1

    It's not like there's a business model that would be unsustainable without the protection

    A free 30-day trial is a fairly common business model in software. And it involves giving access to software with full functionality.

  32. back in my day AMCA by netsavior · · Score: 1

    back in my day, an Oscilloscope would be exempt from the DMCA, unless they passed an Analog version.

  33. Streisand effect! by gmarsh · · Score: 1

    Funny. Yesterday we had a couple of modules come in for our MDO3K series scopes, and a co-worker and I were hypothesizing about what's in the modules. We concluded they were probably using smartcard IC's, because after all you're selling these things to engineers - people who would be smart enough to break the system if you did something cheap like a TWI EEPROM.

    Ha!

    Thanks to this DMCA takedown, and the attention it brought, we'll be breaking out the Bus Pirate. You won't need a smartcard connector or custom PCB - a half dozen pogo pins on protoboard will do the job just fine.

  34. Another example Re:A comment from the linked site: by Camembert · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In my company, one of our products comes with a useful database. The license clearly stipulates that the database and its updates are only allowed to be used with the product. It is a kind of courtesy to make that product more user friendly. For integration into big central systems the database is available separately with different licensing schemes. Predictably, in the end we had to encrypt the database to enforce compliance, as too many customers (it must be said: less so in western countries) would not care to follow the license. Just because you technically can do something, doesn't make it right, esp. if it is not allowed according to the license.

  35. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by countach · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So if Chrysler sold a car without working air-con and without a working stereo, but if you pay $3000 they will enable them, and then someone discovers that the technological measure is they don't put a fuse in the fuse box, and then you stick a fuse in there, is that a technological measure protected by the DMCA?

  36. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by 91degrees · · Score: 1

    I don't think so, because it's not obvious that this is a mechanism to prevent access, but if they put a lock there (no matter how weak) to prevent you from adding the fuse then it possibly would be. At least that's the analogy. If we're talking about a real car then obviously it wouldn't be.

  37. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by sjbe · · Score: 1

    So if Chrysler sold a car without working air-con and without a working stereo, but if you pay $3000 they will enable them, and then someone discovers that the technological measure is they don't put a fuse in the fuse box, and then you stick a fuse in there, is that a technological measure protected by the DMCA?

    I think it has to be something covered by copyright law like computer code. I don't think that particular use case would apply here since it involves nothing that is affected by copyright law.

  38. Drivers not included. by Technician · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is unfortunately an old practice that has been going on for decades.

    I bought a US made digital scope over a decade ago the TDS220. With it I bought the communications module providing serial RS232, Parallel centronics, and HPGIB interfaces. With it I could connect an HP Laser printer, or Epson Dot Matrix printer and produce hard copies with a limited library of printers. Ths goal was to print to my PC. Then I found out that capibility was bundled in an expensive software package which was extra. Due to my low volume, I could not justify the expense, so to post documentation online, I used an HP 1100 laser printer and a Cannon flatbed scanner.

    Tecktronics did not offer a simple driver just to capture the image on a PC.

    Needless to say, that was the last Tektronics scope I purchased. Any future purchases would include a built in USB interface, with nessarry software as part of the TCO when shopping. I won't be burned twice by the batteries not included sales games.

    As a scope, the scope works fine as long as you don't want a screenshot directly transferred to a PC. For what I paid to obtain the communications module without any communicaitons software was a huge letdown. The printer module was only a little cheaper. Without the software, that is all this module can be used for. Let the buyer beware.

    If you want to buy Made in America, the Americans need to knock off selling cripple ware. It is a bad model and is a huge customer turn off.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
    1. Re:Drivers not included. by Technician · · Score: 1

      I would have been happy with a basic image capture from RS-232, but to get the funciton, you had to buy the software package at 4X the cost of the hardware module. I did not need all the other fancy functions in the software. It was a nice package but for electronics troubleshooting, I didn't need the functionality for the price. For the price of the software, I could buy some very nice Fluke DVMs instead.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
    2. Re:Drivers not included. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      You call it unfortunate, I say it's a great business practice.
      You call it crippleware, I call it getting exactly what I paid for + conveniently easy upgrades.

      I would hate to have to pay full price for features I don't use. I may need a 200GHz scope but have no use for FFT or Power Quality Analysis or any of those additional things.
      I would likewise have to hate to send my scope back to the vendor for what amounts to a software change when it can easily be unlocked with a licence key.
      I would hate for my devices to have bugs thanks to a company having to support multiple different firmware and software items which do essentially almost exactly the same thing.

      I ask you, how is your scope in anyway crippled? Does it not do absolutely everything it says on the box? Mine does, even without the keys.

      For me all this is a huge customer turn-on.

    3. Re:Drivers not included. by Technician · · Score: 1

      I bought a communications module for it. I bought it to save screenshots. See the problem? The software package can remotely save and recall settings for automated testing, do FFT, etc. I don't need that. Would not like to have to by the Rolls to use a spare tire for my econnobox. Would you pay $400 for an app to save a screenshot from your scope that should have been shipped with the communications module? No thanks. I don't do automated testing. Not needed.

      Not realated to the scope, I bought a MP3 player. The software to transfer songs to it is NOT and add on package 4X the price of the player.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
    4. Re:Drivers not included. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I do see a problem with that. But your argument boils down to the company not providing the feature set you want at the price you want to pay for. Quite a bit different from the philosophical argument that we are discussing.

      By the way, guess what, they heard you!
      All their scopes now even in the most basic models have screenshot ability straight to USB stick. (I too have a GPIO module in mine so I can effectively get screenshots).

      Also your MP3 example falls flat on its face. The primary function for an oscilloscope has not been getting data off in a printable format. It has been purely a measurement and diagnostic tool. Also the ability to print a screen show was the primary reason they introduced the expansion modules some 20 years ago. One module was specifically dedicated to printing the screen.

      But hey I'm equally pissed I can't use a cron job to make my morning coffee, why do these designers not think of this. I'm sure I can find a coffee machine that integrates with my linux server but clearly this should a feature in every machine dammit!

    5. Re:Drivers not included. by Technician · · Score: 1

      I bought the scope to use as a scope. That is just fine.

      Problem is I bought the optional communicaitons module, and can't communicate except by the hardcopy printer port.

      I guess a better analogy would be buying a USB port card for your PC. Only the card manufacture will provide the propritary drivers.. for 6X the cost of the card. You can use it as a cell phone charging port without the drivers if you like. See the problem?

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
  39. cars with an oil change light that needs a code to by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    cars with an oil change light that needs a code to reset and they intend for that code to only be told to the dealers? and it's some thing that is really easy to do?

    Can they sue jiffy lube and others who do there own oil change from resetting the light under the DMCA?

  40. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

    That's a marketing gimmick, not a business model.

  41. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by macs4all · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My way of seeing it is that anyone who buys the oscilloscope has a legally acquired copy of the software. They just can't access it. Actually accessing legally acquired software should not be illegal. It's not like there's a business model that would be unsustainable without the protection. If they don't want people to use the software, then don't give them the software. If they pay extra then provide the software.

    Exactly this!

    I have personally used the MSO series of 'scopes. And I am certain that there wasn't a EULA that I had to click-through when the scope first powered-up. I'm sure there is one along with the Warranty and other info; but, I am pretty certain that, under the "Shrink Wrap" Licensing precedents, I would have not "signed" anything simply by using the 'scope, anymore than I agree to licensing of the applications that are embedded in my TV set, simply by turning it on.

    So long as you are not creating a "Derivative Work", nor "Reselling" that firmware, there simply is no Copyright issue here. Tek is DEFINITELY abusing the DMCA here, as well as simply trying to cover-up for a sloppy attempt at what is nothing more than a cost-saving measure.

    In fact, they would have had a much more defensible position if they took Hackaday to court for "circumventing security measures of a computing device" (or however that bit is worded in 18 USC...?). But DMCA "Takedown Notices" are hardly EVER challenged, and take only a lawyer-letter with scary language.

  42. A Devils Advocate writes by maroberts · · Score: 1

    Technically, one could see the various software modules as "works protected etc.". The module is effectively a "key" granting access to the work. By creating this device, you are circumventing a technological measure.

    It's a bit of a stretch, but you can probably sell this to a judge.

    --

    Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
    Karma: Chameleon

    1. Re:A Devils Advocate writes by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      I can see your argument, although I still think it's a bit of a stretch to argue that circumventing the key grants you access to the work. The code's still inaccessible.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
  43. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by omnichad · · Score: 1

    marketing...gimmick...Nope. It's an effective business plan. It's the forerunner to the Freemium business model (which I hate by comparison).

  44. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by petermgreen · · Score: 1

    I think in general, people should just start posting reviews of Techtronix saying they're greedy bastards who sell crippled hardware and then charge ransom to unlock it.

    Selling crippled test equipment and charging to unlock features seems to be standard operating procedure in the industry. Some use dongles, some use codes that are coupled to the serial number of your instrument but afaict all the major vendors of such equipment do it one way or the other.

    --
    note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  45. copyright doesn't protect facts, protects paragrap by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Copyright doesn't give them control over a fact. "The SKU for feature X isyyyyyyyy" is a fact, and therefore not protectable. If hackaday had copied and pasted paragraphs of prose from the manual, that would have been copyright infringement because copyright protects a unique expression.

    If the manual had a table of SKU numbers and the article had a list, there's no copyright infringement because it's a different, unique expression.

  46. This is a tough one. by ErichTheRed · · Score: 2

    On one hand, some people might say they paid a huge amount of money for a product that had this (locked) functionality built in, and they have the right to hack it. On another, it's not a trivial amount of effort to write the software that does the analysis, so I could see why a company wants to protect its intellectual property. Otherwise, why would they bother? They would have to ship the device at a higher price to cover the cost of developing the features.

    I think the solution here is for the companies to implement reasonable security. Cisco is famous (at least lately) for shipping crippled hardware that is fully capable of performing the functions that are unlocked by various licenses. They implement it as a soft key that ties in with the device serial number (i.e. pay your money, go online to Cisco, give them the license code and your serial number, and they give back another code to enter into the device. And presto, instant feature. Another example I have right here at work is an IBM DS3500 disk array. There are feature keys for everything -- volume snapshots, remote copy, SSD support, increased number of hosts, and a very mysterious, strangely named "Turbo Performance" option [1]. So this is nothing new -- my disk array is running the base configuration and I'm fully aware the controllers in it are shipped with these capabilities. It's weird having to buy $10K pieces of paper, but I see why they do it.

    It seems like Tektronix was relying on security through obscurity and they assumed no one would try to build hardware keys to work around their feature protection. HP recently did something similar with the ProLiant and Integrity server line that Oracle/Sun did a while back -- they simply stated that no firmware upgrades would be available on their machines without a warranty or service contract. As someone why buys old hardware for fun, it makes it difficult to get it to the last firmware that HP released for it. But, fixing firmware isn't free, so there's that angle as well. I think the HP/Sun/Oracle stuff is aimed more at forcing you to buy service from them, so it's a little different.

    [1] Side note - even the reseller who sold us the device couldn't tell us what Turbo Performance did. After a lot of digging, I figured out that this option is used when you add tons of disk shelves to the array, and it lifts an artificial performance cap on the controllers.

  47. What if? by Sentrion · · Score: 1

    What if I didn't like the software running on my scope hardware and I decided to erase all of it, wrote my own software and firmware to load onto the EEPROMS, etc, and then released my software as free and open source, along with installation and usage manuals. Seems like DMCA could be used against me in such as a case as well, or am I wrong?

  48. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

    Also, for it to be a DCMA, doesn't the requested takedown have to have something to do with DRM?

    No. DMCA is a "big" law with several parts. Part of it is to outlaw DRM compatibility and another part is about takedown notices. There's even a part specific to boat hull designs, though I don't know if it's as controversial as the crazier stuff.

    The reason it's so confusing is that when someone makes something that works with DRM, whoever's interests are negatively impacted by people buying the DRMed item (e.g. Disney fears that if you have a way to play "The Little Mermaid" DVD then you might buy one instead of just downloading the mp4), they'll have their lawyer write a nastygram. People sometimes confuse this nastygram with a DMCA takedown notice, but it's a different thing. Same named laws being referenced, possibly even the same lawyer, but a totally different part of the law.

    DMCA is about balance. The anti-circumvention part was written with a pro-piracy agenda and the notice part was written with anti-piracy agenda. The idea is that unless you just completely abstain, they'll have you breaking some law, so most people should be extortable.

    --
    "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
  49. Re:copyright doesn't protect facts, protects parag by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

    Copyright doesn't give them control over a fact. "The SKU for feature X isyyyyyyyy" is a fact, and therefore not protectable. If hackaday had copied and pasted paragraphs of prose from the manual, that would have been copyright infringement because copyright protects a unique expression.

    If the manual had a table of SKU numbers and the article had a list, there's no copyright infringement because it's a different, unique expression.

    IANAL, but based on what I have read elsewhere, I believe you are incorrect.

  50. LeCroy makes a superior scope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I used Tek scopes for over 40 years - until I got my hands on a LeCroy.
    Wow! My only regret is the time I wasted attempting to get Tek scopes to perform.
    If you've never used LeCroy, you are in for a pleasant surprise. ... and LeCroy has never issued a DMCA take-down notice.

  51. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by Megane · · Score: 1

    Maybe people can start putting hex dumps of the EEPROM data to unlock tek scope features in their Slashdot signatures?

    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  52. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

    Also, for it to be a DCMA, doesn't the requested takedown have to have something to do with DRM?

    It looks like it has. It seems that you pay different prices for oscilloscopes with different feature sets (which is common sense). And it seems that these oscilloscopes have different feature sets because features are produced by software, and access to the software is locked. That's what's called DRM - you didn't pay for the feature, you don't have access to it. And a hack that gives you access to the feature without paying is circumventing the DRM to give you access to the software, exactly what the DMCA is about.

  53. Re:Defective by Design by 50000BTU_barbecue · · Score: 1

    I think you'll find that the "software features turned on by an option" is widespread, not just with Tektronix. It isn't "defective", it's how engineering is done these days.

    --
    Mostly random stuff.
  54. Re:Defective by Design by petermgreen · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately locking out features and charging for unlocking them seems to be the industry standard. I can't think of any scope vendors that DON'T do it.

    --
    note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  55. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Thankfully the Internet Archive crawled the page before HAD redacted it.

    Here's the original:

    Tektronix’s MSO2000 line of oscilloscopes are great tools, and with the addition of a few ‘application modules’, can do some pretty interesting tasks: decoding serial protocols, embedded protocols like I2C and SPI, and automotive protocols like CAN and LIN. While testing out hisMSO2012B, [jm] really like the (limited time) demo of the I2C decoder, but figured it wasn’t worth the $500 price the application module sells for. No matter, because it’s just some data on a cheap24c08EEPROM, and with a little bit of PCB design it’s possible to build this module for under $5.

    The application module Tektronix are selling is simply just a small EEPROM loaded up with an SKU. By writing this value to a $0.25 EEPROM, [jm] can enable two applications. The only problem was getting his scope to read the EEPROM, a problem easily solved with a custom board.

    The board [jm] designed is available at OSH Park, with the only additional components needed being an EEPROM, a set of contacts for reading a SIM card, and a little bit of plastic glued onto the back of the board for proper spacing.

    And Jm's post:

    I purchased a new Tektronix MSO2012B Oscilloscope and quickly found utility in the demo I2C decoder for when I need to diagnose the failed controller in my hot tub. Before the demo period expired, I decided that the capability was rather compelling but didn't have money to purchase the actual application modules. This scope is used purely for hobbies and will never make a buck. After scraping the internet (and Google Translate) for information about this scope, I was able to produce my own Application Modules. It was a whole lot easier than I expected it to be.

    After some investigation and trial/error I found that each application module can be enabled with up to two applications by writing the SKU of the application module (SKU can be found on the Tektronix website) onto a 24c08 eeprom.

    Once this was proven, boards were created at OSHPark, a few parts purchased from Digikey and I now have a rather capable device.

    For reference, dumps of the 24c08 are provided along with a part list to recreate this and my open source board published on OSHPark

    1x Haktek Module ($3.00) - https://oshpark.com/profiles/m...
    1x 24c08 ($0.25) - Digikey - 24LC08BT-I/OTCT-ND
    1x Sim holder ($1.50) Digikey - 609-1401-1-ND
    1x Spacer - Free

    The 24c08 goes on the back of the board while the SIM holder will need to be trimmed to fit onto the board. Program the 24c08 by any means you have. I used a spare RaspberryPi. The I2C header to write to the module is labeled on the PCB.

    To make it fit in the Tektronix, use a spacer to fill the gap between the PCB and the module bay. I initially used a piece of paper folded up but eventually found a scrap piece of plastic and glued it on.

    What amazed me about this was Tektronix used no encryption, hashing or any other forms of authentication. It's just an EEPROM and for under $5 I was able to enable functionality that was not initially exposed. This shouldn't even be considered hacking. It's synonymous to flipping a bit in a configuration file.

    Please comment below if this same methodology works with other Tektronix scopes.

    Thanks!

    - Jm

    And the board design

  56. Perhaps they can do security right? by swschrad · · Score: 1

    Tek has had period-great products for half a century and more, and many are still usable from that period. I have a used dual-trace with digital that is probably 20 years old, and works great on a ham testbench.

    so whether the rumors floating around that portions of the line are rebadged Anritsu scopes are true or not, there should be enough intelligence at the company(-ies) to do a proper init check with a little math involved, not just a string match, of feature modules.

    next time around, perhaps they could even forget the freakin' magic, and just use software keys to enable already-loaded features? that's worked for telco companies since the second digital voice switch.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
    1. Re:Perhaps they can do security right? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      RTFA- that is exactly what they did.

      And what Hack-a-day pointed out, which apparently was worth a DMCA takedown notice.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  57. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by Sloppy · · Score: 1

    There would have to be a "work under this title" (something copyrightable) which becomes accessible by putting in the fuse. If plugging in the fuse causes their copyrighted AC-available icon show up on the dashboard, for example, then it'd be a DMCA violation to plug in the fuse without their authorization. Also, it might become illegal to manufacture or traffick or sell fuses without Chrysler's authorization, but that's subjective and subject to judges' whims (how they decide to interpret your fuse's primary purpose, commercially significant uses, Chrysler's marketing, etc).

    But if all it does is enable the air conditioner (if there's no copyrighted work protected by it), then it's not a DMCA violation.

    This wouldn't ever happen, though. Suppose you made your own copyrighted work and also had it become accessible only by plugging in the exact same sort of fuse. If you became "commercially significant" enough, then Chrysler's own fuse sales to their own customers would become illegal (devices that circumvent your DRM). It's for this reason that all DRM schemes need to be trade secrets or patented, to keep different copyright holders from using each other's schemes (or at least keep 'em from doing it without a contract to cooperate). That's why no one would really use fuse as DRM. It's not that they'd worry about their customers "hacking," but because they'd need to worry about someone (anyone!) coming and suddenly making their own business illegal.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  58. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by shadowknot · · Score: 1

    Apples to oranges. This all comes back to property rights and what you're actually buying. In your example I don't own the race track so I have no rights to it without the express permission of the owner, a fee may be involved. In this case, however, the discussion revolves around what one can do with property they own. Sharing information about that property is neither immoral nor unlawful. It would seem it is illegal under the DMCA but that seems rather ridiculous to most with rational heads on their shoulders. If the manufacturer wanted to sell added capacity they shouldn't sell the unit in a crippled state but make the add-on features available by way of additional/replacement hardware. A good example of this is the Roland synthesizer expansion cards that provide additional instrument patches. They're a little PCB that you pop in to a slot under an easily accessible panel. I don't really know a great deal about oscilloscopes but I suspect it's not beyond reason to expect that a company producing complex electronic devices do something similar. This is especially true given how technical the consumer base is for such products and the idea they're surprised by it is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

  59. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by BronsCon · · Score: 1

    so, Motorola's e-fuses, then?

    --
    APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
  60. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by BronsCon · · Score: 1

    The problem with your analogy is that you didn't buy the race track and the rec track wasn't extra crap that was included with your car; further, there is only one track, which all users must share. The features being unlocked here did, however, come with the oscilloscope, which you bought, and of which there are many; you unlocking yours doesn't deprive someone else of theirs.

    --
    APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
  61. Why car analogies are stupid. by freeze128 · · Score: 1

    The whole thing is: That would never happen. Electric windows require motors and switches which cost money. Heated seats require coils and thermistors which cost money. Radios require receivers that cost money. There is no way a car manufacturer (especially in this day and age) would spend the money on those things for EVERY car and not expect to get paid for them!

    Now with the scopes, the DAC required for FFT is already in the scope doing its job. It just requires the SOFTWARE in order to activate the menu item, and handle the analysis. No extra hardware is needed.

    So this comes down to: How do you reasonably add software features? If you just sent the user a USB stick with the code on it, then how would you prevent the user from installing that code on 100 scopes instead of the one that was paid for? The scopes are not (normally) internet connected devices, so a scheme like Windows Activation is out of the question.

  62. A couple citations for you. Phone book not (c) by raymorris · · Score: 2

    > IANAL

    If you were a lawyer, you might start by reading the law (statute).
      102 . Subject matter of copyright: In general ...
      b) In no case does copyright protection ... extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery
    from http://www.copyright.gov/title...

    Also 499 U.S. 340, 345 "[n]o author may copyright his ideas or the facts he narrates."

    If the wording of the statutes are unclear, you would look at how the court has interpreted it. Feist v Rural was a Supreme Court case in which someone made an unauthorized copy of somebody else's phone directory. A list of phone numbers is simply facts, not a work of original authorship, the defendant claimed, and the court agreed.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...

    The court ruled "In no event may copyright extend to the facts themselves".
    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/...

    1. Re:A couple citations for you. Phone book not (c) by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      All I can say is that evidently, Tectronix things the DMCA is on their side. It would seem foolish to issue a takedown notice for something obviously not protected as you state. Maybe it's as simple as the oscilloscope runs software and the hack talks about how to circumvent the built in protection. I mean, if a takedown notice can be validly issued for how to circumvent protection on a game or other software, why not on the oscilloscope's software, too?

      But as I said, IANAL and will defer to those that are.

  63. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by BronsCon · · Score: 1

    It's also worth noting that "accessible", in the context of the DMCA means, roughly, "made available in an unencrypted and copyable form". After this hack, the only copies that exist are the copies made by Tektronix, at their factory, and those remain just as encrypted or unencrypted as they were when Tektronix made them. Simply causing already-existing code to become executable does not meet that definition.

    That said, this is covered by a completely different section of the DMCA, so, still an issue for those involved.

    --
    APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
  64. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by BronsCon · · Score: 1

    Actually... upon further reading, it looks like the "security" is just a list of SKUs written to an EEPROM. In other words, it's a feature list, not a security measure, and, it would appear, is not protected by the DMCA.

    --
    APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
  65. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by hodagacz · · Score: 1

    Used to be, many car companies did this with Remote Unlock fobs. The hardware would be installed but wouldn't be enabled.

  66. Re:copyright doesn't protect facts, protects parag by BronsCon · · Score: 1

    Even if it did, that information is publicly and freely available on their own website, and will remain there as it is necessary in order to facilitate people ordering the modules in question. That the contents of the module are an EEPROM, with one or two unencrypted SKUs (from their website) written to it, and a SIM slot, is entirely their own doing, and there's nothing illegal about telling someone how to write raw data to an EEPROM or wire said EEPROM up to a SIM card slot.

    --
    APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
  67. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by rickb928 · · Score: 1

    "I agree that it's your device and you should be able to do anything with it,"

    Has anyone considered reading the licensing and/or EULA? Claiming it's 'your device' is all well and good, but legally licensing decides this.

    I'm not taking sides, just pointing out the legalities. YMMV.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  68. Re:cars with an oil change light that needs a code by garyebickford · · Score: 1

    In Massachusetts, the State (IIRC) took Toyota to court to require them to release the codes to independent mechanics so they could fix the cars and do warranty work. I think the State won, but I'm not sure, and it was tied pretty closely to existing MA law.

    --
    It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
  69. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by HiThere · · Score: 1

    So it is your contention that Techtronix sells ransomeware. I will agree that ransomware sounds like a reasonable description of this Techtronix featue. Ransomeware is usually implemented in a different manner, but this feature makes Ransomware seem as if it is and intentional Techtronix feature.

    I wouldn't want to blatantly claim that "Techtronix is Ransomware" without a clearer understanding. But I also wouldn't want to deny that Techtronix is Ransomware.

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  70. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by Lord+Lemur · · Score: 1

    How about computer code that sends an encrypted "able to turn on" signal to the affected systems?

  71. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by david_thornley · · Score: 2

    However, the information is itself a DMCA violation, in that it explains how to circumvent a technical protection scheme. This doesn't look like a DMCA takedown notice to me, but an invocation of what I consider one of the really bad parts of the DMCA. The DMCA takedown system is not well understood, and is controversial, but it's by far the best part of the act.

    Note: I'm not a lawyer. Anybody relying on what I say without consulting a real lawyer is a doo-doo head, and deserves what he or she gets.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  72. circumvention not related to copyright of the manu by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Under DMCA, trading in circumventing protection measures is unlawful.
    The scope has some mechanism that controls access to the copyright protected software on the scope. Circumventing that is a DMCA violation, absent an exclusion.

    That has nothing whatsoever to do with the copyright of the owner's manual. The circumvention is unlawful because DMCA says circumvention is unlawful, period. It's not that it is unlawful because it uses a number that is also mentioned in the owner's manual. The owner's manual doesn't matter - circumvention is unlawful because DMCA says so.

    DMCA isn't that long of a law, if you care to simply read it and see what it says. You seem to be perfectly capable of reading and thinking about what you read.

  73. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by rogoshen1 · · Score: 2

    Yeah, this is basically the same deal from the early 2000's where people could use a pencil to allow overclocking on a few AMD chips. I don't recall AMD issuing take-downs, or suing anyone for distributing said trick.

    If you decide as a company to intentionally gimp products to create price differentiation, expect people to find workarounds. You are creating 'value' out of thin air at the expense of the customer. They are simply taking it back.

    In short; whine less, figure out better ways to increase revenue, and don't be a dick to your customers.

  74. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by chuckugly · · Score: 1

    Unless the firmware is copied to RAM at boot time and executes from RAM, and the dongle allows the added functionality to now be copied, maybe in that case it would be a circumvention of copyright protection.

  75. Re:Another example Re:A comment from the linked si by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    My scope didn't come with a licence agreement.

  76. Are you kidding? by mark_reh · · Score: 1

    No one has any privacy thanks to the government and corporations who both profit from our lack of ability to control who gets to see what data. THAT is the new norm. Tek is going to complain when someone cracks their "security" on hardware and software built into the scope? Why should they be any different from the rest of us?

  77. Re: Another example Re:A comment from the linked s by Camembert · · Score: 1

    Ah my young padawan, you are wrong about the license. It is a binding contract that is accepted when placing the order. In our case, the database costs a lot of effort to keep up to date. It is a small part of an affordable tool for manual use. It is perfectly inline with normal practice that an integration license of this database is separate and more expensive. If everyone would simply buy the cheap product and reuse the database elsewhere, then quite simply we would bot be able to continue updating the database. Also, in professional organisations it would next to normal compliance with terms of use, be more expensive to put the man effort to try to decrypt these files.

  78. Oh but they can take you to court by marxmarv · · Score: 1

    Oracle v. Google was about a nine-line range checking routine, written by the same guy at different jobs. The jury found it copyrightable, I seem to remember. (WAT)

    Fair Use still exists, but so too does everything short of barratry.

    --
    /. -- the Free Republic of technology.
  79. If you're an Ardweenie, maybe by marxmarv · · Score: 1

    Those of us who actually make boards are quite happy to have scopes. Or those of us who work with analog circuits (YES! you CAN still buy REAL OP-AMPS in SO-8 packages OMGWTFBBQ!) or, say, power supplies, or any sort of signal processing. A scope is quite a bit more than a nice-to-have. You may as well tell a machinist a Bridgeport is a "nice thing to have".

    --
    /. -- the Free Republic of technology.
  80. DeCSS by tepples · · Score: 1

    So now even Pigdog DeCSS is a circumvention device. I've seen everything.

  81. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

    So how is a ROM chip programmed with a publicly available SKU number any different?

    --
    SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  82. Re:Perhaps they can ask Google to forget that page by Hamsterdan · · Score: 1

    A friend of mine had the sensor for automatic lights in his Intrepid, but the switch wouldn't go to the left because of a little plastic pin. Remove switch, break the pin, and it worked.

    many higher-end cameras can also have features reenabled by flashing the firmware from a more expensive model.

    --
    I've got better things to do tonight than die.