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The Frustrations of Supporting Users In Remote Offices

Esther Schindler writes "You're not alone in your struggle against people who think a shell is something you hold to your ear," writes Carol Pinchefsky. "Other techies are out there supporting users in remote offices, fighting the good fight against computer- and user-related mishaps – or at least tolerating user frustration with a modicum of grace." One example she gives is a tech support person whose systems in Brazil went down — during Carnival: "...We had to wait more than a week for the locals to sober up enough to reconnect the line. In the end, I had to walk a tech (who did not know the system) through the process step by step via an interpreter. Of course, the interpreter was not technical. So it was kind of like explaining to your mom to tell your grandfather (who is hard of hearing) how to do something while she is on the phone and he is across the room from her."

129 comments

  1. Users in remote offices are the best users! by ShaunC · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Users in remote offices are the best users! They can email, they can call, and they all get a ticket opened for their issue. But they can't come make a scene in your department (or worse, at your own desk) because "the data pull I asked for last week is clearly out of date, my customer from yesterday isn't listed" etc. I would much rather support users via email, via ticketing, and via phone if necessary, than support them in person.

    --
    Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
    1. Re:Users in remote offices are the best users! by roc97007 · · Score: 2

      Indeed. Moreover, email and/or texting helps surmount miscommunication due to heavy accents and bad phone connections. Often I've ended a puzzling scratchy phone call with "can you send me that request through email?" And then I get the email, oh yeah, that's what he meant.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    2. Re:Users in remote offices are the best users! by ShaunC · · Score: 1

      Moreover, email and/or texting helps surmount miscommunication due to heavy accents and bad phone connections.

      Indeed.

      --
      Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
    3. Re:Users in remote offices are the best users! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nu-uh, they can't call - there's the helpdesk for that.

      I absolutely despise when users call me. Besides I won't help - they can call the helpdesk, then the helpdesk can create a ticket, and that ticket will be prioritized and given to someone that is hopefully not me.
      A few is okay - the superusers, I love them. There's also only 5 of them on the system I'm administering, and we've got a close collaboration. The 6000 non-super users, no thanks.

      Worst is when end-costumers is directed to me, from a user. I.cannot.speak.human. I don't know what to say to these things, and they're certainly not allowed to know what I know anyway. I just hang up. I'm also pretty sure it's not allowed to redirect them to me.

    4. Re:Users in remote offices are the best users! by ShaunC · · Score: 1

      Hey, I don't like doing phone support either. Taking a phone call puts you on the spot, with no time to think through your response or prepare an answer. There's no proofreading on a phone call. Which is precisely why some people will always insist on calling, because they know it makes you uncomfortable and assume they can take advantage. It's poor form to say "no," so I learned a long time ago to use the "I'm not sure, but I can find that out for you, I'll shoot you an email" approach. Most folks catch on and initiate contact via email because they know I'll deliver the results they're after. I often need to tweak the machines and grease the firmenpolitik; I can't do that on demand over the phone.

      That said, yes, there are the treasured users, the ones whose calls I will take by default and the rest of the department knows it. The really cool ones even have my cell number, and I'll answer that for them, too!

      --
      Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
  2. learn Portuguese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Brazilian-style may be better

    1. Re:learn Portuguese by tepples · · Score: 1

      Portuguese won't help you when you get clients in Russia and China, and not all companies are big enough to have fluent speakers of all official languages of the G-20 advanced and emerging economies on staff.

    2. Re:learn Portuguese by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      It would make far more sense for the Brazilian tech to learn English. Many technical docs are available only in English. It is the language of science and technology, and any journal or conference that wants an international audience is conducted in English. It is the language of international business. If the Brazilian tech has any ambition, he is going to have to learn it.

      I once spent three weeks in Sao Paulo. I don't speak Portuguese, and only know a little Spanish, but I didn't have much problem. Plenty of people there knew enough English to get their point across, and most tech people that I met were fluent.

    3. Re:learn Portuguese by jedidiah · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you are big enough to have a branch office in Timbuktu then you should be big enough for there to be someone in the home office that speaks whatever they speak there.

      Of course this runs counter to the current corporate culture fad of cost cutting and defining success based on quarterly profits and stock results.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    4. Re: learn Portuguese by jd2112 · · Score: 1

      Easier said than done. Portuguese is one of the most difficult languages to learn.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    5. Re: learn Portuguese by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      -1 disagree. it's like spanish. source: i learned it.

    6. Re: learn Portuguese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I disagree. It's not like Spanish: source: I didn't learn it very well (and Brazilians can understand some Spanish but few speak it, notwithstanding having plenty of Spanish-speaking visitors).

    7. Re:learn Portuguese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bully for you. I just spent five weeks in Brazil, and I can assure you there are 199m people in Brazil who don't speak English.

    8. Re:learn Portuguese by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

      Spanish? Brazil is Porra last I checked.

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    9. Re:learn Portuguese by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Spanish? Brazil is Porra last I checked.

      Look at a map. Portugal and Spain share a 1,214 km border. Portuguese is more similar to standard Spanish than some Spanish "dialects" within Spain. If you speak Spanish in Brazil, people will usually get the gist of what you are trying to say. You are not going to be able to do standup comedy, but it will suffice for simple phrases like "I want that" or "where is the toilet". Lots of Brazilians are familiar with Spanish because they watch Mexican soap operas.

    10. Re:learn Portuguese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would make far more sense for the Brazilian tech to learn English. Many technical docs are available only in English. It is the language of science and technology, and any journal or conference that wants an international audience is conducted in English. It is the language of international business. If the Brazilian tech has any ambition, he is going to have to learn it.

      I once spent three weeks in Sao Paulo. I don't speak Portuguese, and only know a little Spanish, but I didn't have much problem. Plenty of people there knew enough English to get their point across, and most tech people that I met were fluent.

      I once spent two hours trying to get a remote user to hit the physical on/off wireless switch on their laptop. I don't know why my company hires people in the USA that can't speak 1st grade English. Minimum support call from her is 30 min. Granted, I was training another tech who initially took the call, and that two hours is total time we both spent. I would have probably resolved it in 45 min....

      Before I started at help desk she would drive 30 min to another office just to print or scan because the on-site printer was not functioning. She was not able to communicate this problem to IT and it was broken for months (I blame the previous tech's impatience).

      I have also had a user who used their nephew to translate (this is in the USA as well) because she could not speak English AT ALL. However, this was a foster parent, so we didn't really "hire" her.

      As long as you can shadow the session, remote support is not an issue. They can just show you where they are getting stuck and the rest is you showing them a process that works. However, if it is a network connectivity issue or a physical hardware issue things change quite a bit, as you're relying on the users ability to describe the situation/problem.

    11. Re:learn Portuguese by fuzzywig · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure that cost-cutting is a particularly new-fangled business method, or measuring success based on profits come to that.

    12. Re:learn Portuguese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well now - finding someone who can solve the problem at hand AND speaks Timbuktu in all your offices is an unreasonable idea. Much more productive idea is to have everyone learn one language to communicate. 200 years ago such language used to be French (lingua franca), now it happens to be English. Perhaps 200 years from now it will be something else.

    13. Re:learn Portuguese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You will certainly get much further with spanish in Portugal than you will with spanish in Catalonia :-)

      Pro tip: If you're in Catalonia make it very clear you're NOT spanish...

    14. Re:learn Portuguese by plopez · · Score: 1

      I was going to post that! Seriously if we now have "Dev-Ops" why not "Dev-Interps". This is the age of flexibility and doing more with less. I always feel embarrased when I work with someone overseas and I do not know their language, not even please or thank you. They took the trouble to learn my language, I should reciprocate.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    15. Re: learn Portuguese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Portuguese really is much like Spanish. That may have been your problem if you know Spanish, but not natively. I have seen many cases where those who learn Spanish as a second language try to learn Portuguese as well since they figure it would be easy since they are so similar, but either eventually give up or end up fucking up their Spanish knowledge. It probably works the opposite way as well.

  3. Show Users some love! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    IT needs to let go of PEBKAC and ID-10-T errors. Your users have difficult jobs and they probably don't want to deal with you any more than you want to deal with them. They probably aren't "bothering" you for fun. If they are, you're doing your job well.

    Yes, they can be dense. But guess what -- they are human and so are you! They make mistakes. So do you!
    I enjoy The IT Crowd and BOFH, but those are fantasies and should remain such.

    There are many reasons to show appreciation for the work your coworkers do. The most important is that without them, you may be lucky enough to find yourself in their shoes.

    1. Re:Show Users some love! by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      FANTASY? Obviously you've never worked a help desk. The IT Crowd was very accurate, "have you tried turning it off and back on again" solves 80% of all calls.

    2. Re:Show Users some love! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're part of the problem with that attitude. Rebooting only masks the problem/makes it go away temporarily, it doesn't really fix anything. The problem lingers and your user remains frustrated and the cycle continues..

    3. Re: Show Users some love! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      With closed source there is often no other solution available, though. I pity those poor bastards that have to work around problems caused by software they can't do anything about...

    4. Re:Show Users some love! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually many times its just some sort of conflict. If a reboot causes the issue to go away and it doesn't reoccur then I don't worry about it. If it happens again then it is an issue that needs to be properly diaged.

      Hell, I often stay on the phone with my user until I know he/she is back up and running. I then instruct them to shoot me an email if it reoccurs. Id say about three quarters of the time it does not reoccur. I am guessing you have never actually worked a help desk for a windows shop have you.

    5. Re:Show Users some love! by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      That doesnt mean your users are idiots, and if thats your starting point, you're probably creating more of your own problems than anyone else.

    6. Re:Show Users some love! by wisnoskij · · Score: 0

      You have obviously never used a computer, nor understand how they work. Billions of complex things happen every second with hundreds of programs interacting and random errors popping up and propagating. The idea that you could solve a random wrong bit in 8 gigs, or even just some weird bug in the source code of windows is beyond absurd. Rebooting permanently SOLVES at least 80% of all problems.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    7. Re:Show Users some love! by spire3661 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Stop. Users are often absolutely unreasonable. I understand what you are saying but it swings both ways. You ever have a high school drop-out salesman flat out tell you that they dont know why we have I.T. at all? Users often ARE idiots. You know what office workers in the past did? THEY TOOK CLASSES IN OFFICE AUTOMATION so that they understood the tools they work with every day.

      --
      Good-bye
    8. Re:Show Users some love! by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      No. this is wrong. Rebooting shows that the machine can boot properly and the OS is working. It doesnt mask anything, its a basic functionality TEST.

      --
      Good-bye
    9. Re:Show Users some love! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Sometimes it does. For example, Windows Servers will occasionally just lose the fact that they have file locks on certain files. They will function, but can't be accessed via the UI.

      Only way to fix it is to reboot the server. Trust me, I thought it was insane at first, coming from a Linux/Unix background. There had to be something... nope. If it's not in the main UI, it won't show in any other locations, however, it'll function just fine to lock that file. Rebooting saves a hell of a lot of time. Even if I have to rarely argue with some other IT person. Tell you what, do whatever you want, tell me if the file lock is still there, then reboot the server, and then tell me if it's still there.

      Just goes to show how for the fact that Windows Servers have gone along the way to not so crappy, they still have things like that. That's far from the only thing!

    10. Re:Show Users some love! by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sorry, but no. Simple as that. No. The problem is that people are to use a tool and cannot be assed to learn how to use it. And don't turn around and blame corporate by "but they make me". Then learn to do your goddamn job or GTFO of it, you're wasting valuable oxygen someone else could use productively.

      I've spent a good deal of my youth in support jobs. They work well as part time during your university years, and that you're treated like garbage by the cheese-for-brains idiots doesn't really help to endear them to you either. I've seen them all. From the lady who flat out refuses to remember passwords and needs a reset twice a day (one in the morning, one when she returns from lunch) to the gentleman who calls every other day to be walked step by step through the same problem who yells obscenities at you to compensate for his own idiocy that apparently keeps him from writing down those steps.

      No. Sorry. My patience with users has expired long, long ago. Learn to use your tools or vacate the position for someone willing and able to do so.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    11. Re:Show Users some love! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously? Reboot a server to unlock a file? Stick with your Linux background if you don't want to learn how to work with a Windows server. Then get out of the help desk area, as you obviously don't care about doing some root cause analysis to find out the real source of the problem.

      That's the kind of help desk support that masks a problem longer than it needs to.

      Looking for job security?

    12. Re:Show Users some love! by vtcodger · · Score: 1

      Maybe you're both correct to some extent. Rebooting certainly doesn't solve all problems. But the software architecture used in Windows/Unix does have the unfortunate characteristic that it sometimes manages to transition into states that no one anticipated and that do undesirable things. Rebooting restores a more desirable state. At least for a while.

      There is also a problem that few modern PCs use memory capable of detecting memory errors Thus it's possible for values defining system state to change spontaneously without being detected. That's an interesting case of shifting costs from visible hardware costs to less visible support costs -- largely Microsoft's (bad) idea BTW. Long story there. Anyway rebooting will help if important bits somewhere in memory have reset themselves.

      There is some credible evidence that flaky PC memory is more common than most people assume. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R...

      OTOH, if the problem is a logic error in code, or bad documentation, or an atrocious user interface, or the user -- rebooting can't fix it.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    13. Re:Show Users some love! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have no idea what most computers do when they reboot. In a normal domain environment a computer and user accounts loads it's data on boot. Most basic issues involving GPO updates or access to shared resources can be reset by simply rebooting the PC. The computer goes down, it comes back up, inherits all of it's rights and access information, and the user logs back in with a fresh connection to all of the network resources. It's the simplest and easiest way to handle users, especially remote users, when you want to get them back up and running asap.

    14. Re:Show Users some love! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      an issue that needs to be properly diaged.

      Is this a half-assed version of triaged? Or two-thirds assed?

    15. Re:Show Users some love! by BVis · · Score: 1

      They could do that, but their whiny lazy asses would want the company to pay for the training. Paying for training literally makes you Hitler.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    16. Re:Show Users some love! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the flip side, since I don't have admin privileges on the box I am using, don't whine about it when you have to come do something for me that I can't access.

    17. Re:Show Users some love! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      DEAL!

      You have NO idea what uphill battle it is to convince certain people in upper management that they do not need admin privileges on their PC. I know, I know, what kinda audacity that I wanna give that tech peon more "power" than his excellency the CfuckmeO and his secretary.

      Because he doesn't fuck your machine up for good by downloading every single friggin' shit angry-birds-knockoff game, that's why!

      I swear, one of those meetings I'm gonna flip.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    18. Re:Show Users some love! by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      There was one place I contracted at. As a developer, I was allowed administrator privileges. First, though, I had to read and sign a document that said that I understood that tech support was limited, and that if a tech worked on my computer for more than half an hour he or she would wipe and re-image.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  4. Au contraire! by nuckfuts · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What a useless and whinging article! You find remote support frustrating? Some of us recall the days before remote support was an option, having to hop in a car and drive somewhere every time a problem occurred. Remote support is a f*cking godsend. Don't work in support if you can't handle a bit of frustration.

    1. Re:Au contraire! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some of us recall the days before...

      Here we go!

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAtSw3daGoo

    2. Re:Au contraire! by roc97007 · · Score: 2

      What a useless and whinging article! You find remote support frustrating? Some of us recall the days before remote support was an option, having to hop in a car and drive somewhere every time a problem occurred. Remote support is a f*cking godsend. Don't work in support if you can't handle a bit of frustration.

      I remember those days. We had to strip RG58 cable with our teeth and punch down wires with our foreheads while holding a 50 pound roll of Cat 3 in each hand. Kids today, they don't know how good they got it.

      Now get off my BBS.

      I think the author's point was, in today's world remote support has a few new wrinkles, like distances you couldn't drive in a reasonable amount of time, different cultures, language and technology barriers. Some of us got an early start in this area (I worked for a Japanese-based company in the 1980's) but for many people, having to support users outside the country is a new thing.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    3. Re:Au contraire! by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      What I found really smooth was to use create a mix of internal and external contracted support. Troublesome users are passed off to the external support and good users are done internally. The troublesome types want to use some else to prove how bad you are and they are happy until they start to realise how long external support takes and management gets the bill for that detailed external support of them. Everyone else learns to be a lot happier with the quick, direct, personal support and of course in overload situations passing them off to the external contractors helps balance out costs and in the case of remote locations, establishes the use of external contractors. Of course relying on external contractors alone becomes really costly and response times being grossly inefficient.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    4. Re:Au contraire! by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      They're still whiners. Try writing code to support multiple languages simultaneously on heterogenous environments with users attempting to look at the same data. Back around Y2K. And then supports those users.

      For some reason, kids today think they have all these new exciting special problems and that they're in a eureka moment. That wasn't even true when I encountered those issues more than a decade earlier. I'm pretty sure the initial international connections for what became the internet were not even the first instance of this issue, as there were those wonderful 300 baud links way back in the 70s, and possibly earlier.

      I think I'd rather see a story about the challenges of dealing with clueless tech support. Yes, I rebooted the system. Yes, I rebooted the network. I even checked that all links internally are live and that the problem appears to be your modem not connecting reliably to the outside world. Response: can you unplug your computer and reboot it? (Just one example of idiot tech support)

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    5. Re:Au contraire! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A couple of years ago someone on slashdot posted an interesting system for dealing with obnoxious assholes. If I recall correctly they were doing support as external contractors.
      What they did was that they always wrote down who it was that needed support and how much time was spent on it, and then they put together a high-score list every month.
      This had many benefits. First of all their customer got to see that they weren't really expensive, it was just that some people in the office needed a lot of support.
      Those who couldn't be arsed to do simple tasks were quicker to learn it since no-one wanted to be the one who needed a lot of support when there were others in the office that needed none and the regular assholes who just called support to get someone to abuse couldn't do that without getting on the list and end up looking incompetent. There are few things assholes dislike as much as looking incompetent.

    6. Re:Au contraire! by TheGoodNamesWereGone · · Score: 1

      I would *much* rather help a user by actually being there than trying to explain how the CD-ROM tray isn't a coffee cup holder. I've worked in IT since the mid-90s and let me tell you, it's less frustrating for all involved that way-- except for the bean counters, who have to pay me to hop in my car and do that. They'd much rather pay a less skilled person less money to try to resolve things over the phone. Except for the smallest problems, THAT is the only reason remote support exists. How many times have you called a big company for help with something (not just computers, but anything) only to be stymied by some level one drone who reads from a script? They provide this crappy support because they can get away with it.

    7. Re:Au contraire! by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1

      They provide this crappy support because they can get away with it.

      You're lying. Everyone knows private industry is so much more efficient and responsive than the government so you're just making up this shit.

      Private industry would NEVER treat their customers in the manner you described. They would bend over backwards, expending all needed time, effort and money to make sure your problem is resolved quickly and efficiently.

      For those who don't grasp sarcasm, this was it. I work for a government agency and while we have all the people described in this thread, I can assure you, the private sector is just as incompetent and slow moving as anything the government does. The stories I could tell you about slow response, pawned off troubles and general incompetence. . .

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    8. Re:Au contraire! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For some reason, kids today think they have all these new exciting special problems and that they're in a eureka moment. That wasn't even true when I encountered those issues more than a decade earlier. I'm pretty sure the initial international connections for what became the internet were not even the first instance of this issue, as there were those wonderful 300 baud links way back in the 70s, and possibly earlier.

      Sounds like you were one of those kids in your own time, just grown up now. It was not special then either.

    9. Re:Au contraire! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Part of the reason helpdesk makes you go through all the basic steps with them is the common practice amongst users of lying about whether they've done the basic steps before they called you. It is incredible the number of times users SWEAR they rebooted, then I check system uptime and it is at 10+ days.

    10. Re:Au contraire! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think I'd rather see a story about the challenges of dealing with clueless tech support.

      Fucking this. There have been times when I have needed to contact support where I basically give them the solution to the problem on a silver platter, and it either goes over their heads or they insist on doing stupid, and often irrelevant, shit first. I can see not hearing everything over a phone or me forgetting to say, and the other person remembering, aboslutely everything said, so I do not get as annoyed there there. However, when I open a support ticket, there should be no excuse for stupidity. I detail what the issue is, what I have done to try to fix it, when it started, how it might be fixed if I know the system, steps to reproduce the issue, error codes, etc. Most of the time, support just shows that they did not even bother reading and suggests to do things that I already stated had been done, even if it is an issue that I know and said is on their end. I may put much information in support tickets, but they are not filled with irrelevant fluff. Fucking read.

      I work in tech support. It just irks me to no end the shitty level of support I usually encounter.

      This is basically how one of my support ticket exchanges went:
      Submit ticket for issue X on their end (some conflicting items on my account causing the main program to do unpredictable things).
      "Thanks for contacting support. Try this, this, and this."
      "That is completely irrelevant. As stated in the ticket, the issue with X and I cannot really do anything about it. But you might."
      "We need one item of information."
      "Here it is."
      "Please disable feature Y."
      "It was never enabled."
      "Reinstall the program."
      "Okay, X is still an issue."
      "Reinstall the program following these crazy steps using a cleanup ultility and manually editing the Windows registry along the way."
      "Uh... wow, okay. Ah, X is still an issue."
      "Thanks for contacting support. Our team is aware of the issue. Hopefully it might be fixed in the future."

      That last line kills me every time. Fucking Steam support.

    11. Re:Au contraire! by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      A decade or more ago? Only one part was notable. In the 70s or earlier? That predates my professional involvement.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    12. Re:Au contraire! by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      That is true, but when a user tells you that interface eth1 is tied to the modem's internal port and that the outer IP is 'x' and that you can't get past that point, I'd think a lightbulb would go off that perhaps, just maybe, this user might be smarter than the average moron and isn't lying about rebooting everything.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
  5. Patience is the key by roc97007 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    For me it's important to keep in mind, I get paid the same regardless, so it's not worth getting twisted up about it. Communicate slowly and clearly, use simple instructions, ask politely for feedback (what do you see on your screen now?) and you'll eventually get there. Unless your remote user is trying to defuse a bomb, how long this takes probably doesn't matter much in the long run. So relax.

    Once, at 3AM or so, modem out of commission, no way to log in, I talked an operator through editing a backup script that another admin had broken. (Made a change, didn't test it.) It took a long time, but we got it done and I didn't have to drive in. In his favor, the operator was excellent at following instructions and telling me what exactly he was seeing on the screen.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    1. Re:Patience is the key by ldobehardcore · · Score: 4, Insightful

      the operator was excellent at following instructions and telling me what exactly he was seeing on the screen.

      As someone fairly green on the helpdesk (just hit the 1 year mark), I must say that I appreciate ten times more a user who follows instructions and describes what's on their screen, than users who claim to be tech savvy, broke what they were working on, and can't seem to fix it themselves.

      What I really hate are those users who never learned how to use their computer. They know how to operate one or two programs on the computer, but they always say "I'm not a computer person", and use that as an excuse for never learning the difference between the mouse, the monitor and the tower. The kinds of users who can't take instructions because they're unwilling to focus their eyes in unfamiliar territory on the the screen.

      I'm fine with ignorance, ignorance can be fixed, and ignorance is honest. What I can't stand is when people call in asking for help, but refusing to say what they need help with, then when you pry it out of them, they refuse to follow the instructions you give them. Those are the worst users.

      So yeah. Compassion is great. I do my level best every day to put myself in the users shoes, because I understand how stressful it is when your tools fail you. But there is certainly a point where the patience runs out, because someone who is asking for help (often demanding help) is not willing to be helped once they have my attention.

      --
      Hectice, baby, Mercator says hello to you
    2. Re:Patience is the key by Harlequin80 · · Score: 1

      My favourite ones are ones that go along the lines of.
      "My email is all gobbledy gook, can you fix it"
      "Ok, forward the email to it@blah.com and I will have a look"
      "How do I forward an email?"
      "Push the button that says forward and has an arrow pointing right. It is on the right hand side of your email about half way up"
      "No it's not"
      "Ok. Can you see a menu up the top marked message"
      "No - where would that be"
      "If you start at the top left corner you will see File, then Edit, View, and finally Message"
      "Oooo the forward button has appeared! It wasn't there before!"

      Calm. Calm. Deep Breaths....

    3. Re:Patience is the key by David_Hart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For me it's important to keep in mind, I get paid the same regardless, so it's not worth getting twisted up about it. Communicate slowly and clearly, use simple instructions, ask politely for feedback (what do you see on your screen now?) and you'll eventually get there. Unless your remote user is trying to defuse a bomb, how long this takes probably doesn't matter much in the long run. So relax.

      Once, at 3AM or so, modem out of commission, no way to log in, I talked an operator through editing a backup script that another admin had broken. (Made a change, didn't test it.) It took a long time, but we got it done and I didn't have to drive in. In his favor, the operator was excellent at following instructions and telling me what exactly he was seeing on the screen.

      In some ways I got lucky. One of my first jobs was supporting point-of-sale systems and pump controllers at 100 gas stations, about 30% were 24-hour. There is nothing like walking a minimum wage cashier through resetting a pump controller and being woken up at 3:00am in the morning as trucks are lining up and they can't pump gas... If you have the patience to do that, you can support just about anything...

      It taught me how to be patient, professional, to ask all kinds of questions, and to pay attention to any and all details that are provided. It also taught me how to put myself in the place of the person on the other end of the phone and how to calm them down.

    4. Re:Patience is the key by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      A year? You're a veteran. Maybe at the pinnacle of your productivity.

      Past the 1.5 years mark, everyone just either loses any kind of motivation or starts doing happy pills to stomach the crap.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:Patience is the key by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My first support was also POS, for fast food places.

      once you figure out how to ask the questions that give you the answer you want (and begin to speak their language, like instead of saying "CPU" call everything a "modem") things get easier.
      NEVER ASK A QUESTION THAT HAS A YES/NO ANSWER. When you do you'll always get a yes or a no (and consistently the same answer) no matter what the reality of the situation is.
      Don't ask "Does it say 'started' next to the line for 'print spooler'?" they will always say yes.
      instead ask "What does it say next to 'print spooler'?" you'll get a longer answer... it will include some useless information, but eventually they will tell you that it says "stopped"

      The other thing I learned is that rebooting machines is for whimps who don't want to know what is really wrong... we couldn't reboot certain machines, it'd take 20 minutes to get the store back up if we did... so we'd troubleshoot the actual software configuration and restart processes that were hung instead of taking the entire system down for one failed service... Of course that is an ideology that doesn't permeate the world of support.... and quality support is rare because most people in support seem to think that IT Crowd is 100% real and they should be disillusioned into thinking their job is so easy they shouldn't bother to try to actually do anything other than give users what they want, not what they really need.

    6. Re:Patience is the key by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      > The other thing I learned is that rebooting machines is for whimps who don't want to know what is really wrong... we couldn't reboot certain machines, it'd take 20 minutes to get the store back up if we did... so we'd troubleshoot the actual software configuration and restart processes that were hung instead of taking the entire system down for one failed service... Of course that is an ideology that doesn't permeate the world of support.... and quality support is rare because most people in support seem to think that IT Crowd is 100% real and they should be disillusioned into thinking their job is so easy they shouldn't bother to try to actually do anything other than give users what they want, not what they really need.

      Man, I hear ya. I have a nephew who works in support for a company's products who's initials are Microsoft... His response to troubleshooting is (a) have the user reboot (no matter what kind of system or what task(s) it's doing), if that doesn't work, (b) uninstall the software, and then reinstall, (c) if that doesn't work, reinstall the operating system. "What? It's no trouble. I do it all the time." If that doesn't work, or the user declines to reinstall the entire frakking machine, (d) say "well, it works on my machine. It has 36 processors and eighty-twelve gigabytes of ram and an ATI 36000000 video card. You should upgrade your machine."

      At this point, I'll enter the conversation, maybe ask the user to open the task manager and resource monitor, look for processes that are hung, pinning the CPU, taking an inordinate amount of memory, camping on a disk, or all of the above. Trace the offending process to the offending application, and start there.

      Or at very least, google the error message, for Fudd's sake.

      When I take him (nephew) to task for passing out idiot troubleshooting steps suitable for someone getting paid in paises, he gets huffy. Go figure.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    7. Re:Patience is the key by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Desktop systems are worth rebooting, patching problems require rebooting, installation problems require rebooting, memory faults require rebooting, power faults often require rebooting, malware and virus removal require rebooting even if automated. Complicated systems where the objectionable service is unknown and the system provides a certain amount of redundancy are worth rebooting.

    8. Re:Patience is the key by houghi · · Score: 1

      I'm fine with ignorance, ignorance can be fixed, and ignorance is honest. What I can't stand is when people call in asking for help, but refusing to say what they need help with, then when you pry it out of them, they refuse to follow the instructions you give them. Those are the worst users.

      Unless they are extremely mean people, they actualy do not know what to ask or what feedback to give you.
      They realy have no idea what they are looking at. What is obvious for you makes absolutely no sense to them. They do not know there is a difference between a computer and a screen. They have no idea what a browser is.

      When you ask them "What do you see?" The answer is a truthfull (although not a litteral) "Nothing." because they see nothing. As if you go hunting with somebody and he asks you to identify what the bird is you see and all you see is a lot of green stuff. You have no idea what the differnce between a bush or a shrubbery is, let alone where the one green thing ends and the other starts and then they say "Look at the left bottom of the Asian Bird Cherry where you see a Slaty brislefront. Now, is it male or female?"

      Or perhaps more like https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    9. Re:Patience is the key by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      I remember a job where I had to take acid suppressors (the kind you take for acid reflux) during the workday just to get through the day. I'm really glad I don't work there anymore. Some places are just poison. The only solution is to be somewhere else.

      But in that case, the user community had built up a remarkable hostility towards IT (somewhat deserved) over a number of years. Not something you could easily solve in a few months.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  6. local support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    all major cities have some form of IT support available on an adhoc basis for remote hands - what is the problem? ping off an email to the local LUG for supplier recommendations...

    1. Re:local support by BitZtream · · Score: 2

      The problem is the person complaining isn't very good at his job or prepared for situations that should be expected.

      He seems to think getting something done during Carnival is supposed to be easier than getting anything done in France during August or over Christmas weekend in Spain or the USA.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    2. Re:local support by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      My clients still get 24/7 support over holidays...but the main client is American Airlines so I'm sure their paying $$$$$ to have use here.

    3. Re:local support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know wtf you're talking about. It's pretty standard for any *real* datacenters to be staffed 24/7 with helpdesk who can always reach out to a proper technical resources. It's pretty simple:

      - Change requests are scheduled with at minimum 1wk notice unless it can be justified as having a severe impact if not done sooner.
      - We won't accept any change requests to be scheduled on the 25th or 26th of December.
      - On-call support is available is always available. Our SLAs applies 365 days a year

      Btw, I'm in Canada but I'm pretty sure what I've described above applies to datacenters in the US as well. Someone who runs a hosting company with one of those lame website templates and calls himself a datacenter because he rents a rack isn't who I'm talking about here...

    4. Re:local support by ruir · · Score: 1

      We also do not accept changes to the systems Fridays and a few days before senior admins go in vacations.

    5. Re:local support by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      So do mine, but I'm prepared for providing them service during holidays by having SLAs across my vendors that ensure they will be supported during those holidays.

      I also test on random occasions my vendors ability to support these times by intentionally 'breaking' something or at least simulating a break.

      What I don't do is act surprised that Joe's no name 'data center in my closet at home' isn't around to support my servers in his closet because its that time of year when he goes and does something else ... at the same time ... every year ... for the past several hundred years ... without any backup or any expectation of backup ... which is essentially what this story is about.

      If you need to provide 24/7 support, you plan for it. The story author apparently didn't plan for a well known (around the world) holiday and then got caught with his pants down. I've been there myself, made that mistake ... I learned from it.

      I did not, however come to slashdot and whine about it, in fact I tried not to tell a bunch of people about it, I get embarrassed when I make mistakes due to my own ignorance and lack of training.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  7. Au contraire - INDEED by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What a useless and whinging article! You find remote support frustrating?

    It's more than that. these "support" people find their "users" objectionable - the people for whom they serve and the reason they have a job.

    Many if not most people use computers for a varying scale of applications. Most of these people are not "computer professionals". If you are in "support", your job is to "support" these people. If you can't handle that, it's time for a new job.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    1. Re:Au contraire - INDEED by rmdingler · · Score: 2
      You're right, of course, but there are always tendencies towards tribalism within the support team.

      Stupid customer said what?

      Sure, it's biting the hand that feeds you, but the us versus them theme is practically genetic.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    2. Re:Au contraire - INDEED by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      I dont 'serve' you, we are peers. Support only goes so far. Office professionals should take classes in the tools they use everyday. If you use a computer everyday for work and dont understand it, the fault lies with you. Its not my job to wipe your fucking nose and do your work for you. Learn office automation like people in the past did.

      --
      Good-bye
    3. Re:Au contraire - INDEED by BVis · · Score: 1

      If you are in "support", your job is to "support" these people. If you can't handle that, it's time for a new job.

      You sound like a real treat to work with. Issues like yours mysteriously found their way to the absolute bottom of my list, because when you treat people whose assistance you need to do your job like shit, they react accordingly. Tech support is not your personal abuse sponge. And you don't need to be a fucking "computer professional" to remember an 8-character password, or to know that you should try rebooting your system before you call.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    4. Re:Au contraire - INDEED by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      Issues like yours mysteriously found their way to the absolute bottom of my list

      And then IT wonders why people circumvent their policies. And then semi-tech-savvy people implement workarounds outside of IT and it all goes well until it doesn't.

      And when it doesn't, the crap hits the fan quickly because most likely it's some hacked-together system some manager set up years ago that ended up as a production critical system. That no one remembers, or even knows where it's at until some move later or IT comes around and cleans up an odd PC sitting by the wall.

      Be difficult, and people will find an easier solution. Now, sometimes emergencies are unavoidable (and using the old "your lack of planning doesn't constitute an emergency on my part" can lead to shadow IT as well when someone needs a server quickly and IT gives them the runaround), so the goal is to find a way to accommodate those requests reasonably.

      The other problem with "expect people to learn their tools" is well, there's a gulf between "knows little" and "knows enough to support themselves" which is called "knows enough to be extremely dangerous". You know the kind - need to share a document with a customer? They'll set up a dropbox account or 10.

      That, and tools are tools. Unless you want to wait while your mechanic compiles a new kernel while fixing your car, that is.

      Computers are wonderful tools because they enable a lot, but they're also quite complex to use because they can do a lot. It's the role of IT to provide the systems necessary so users can use the tools in ways it was designed to, and try to prevent users from doing things they aren't supposed to.

      And no, I rarely need support unless it's really a problem outside of my control (our IT guy comes to ME (and several others) for problems!). And I also know how users get creative in order to do their jobs.

    5. Re: Au contraire - INDEED by BVis · · Score: 1

      I counted 5 terminable offenses at most sane companies in this comment. IT policies are not there to impede you or just annoy you; they are there because assholes like you think you know IT's job better than they do. If you are not getting the answers or support you need from IT, or you don't like a decision they make, the answer is not to break policy and work around it. The answer is to escalate the problem up the chain and lay out very clearly and patiently what you are asking for and why it's important to the company. If a million-dollar deal is being impeded by IT, they will either require an exception or explain why making that exception would either be unlawful or potentially cost the company more than that due to increased liability.

      You wouldn't tell accounting how to file their paperwork or what information to require to do their jobs. You wouldn't go over to Sales and tell them how to sell things. You wouldn't go over to Payroll and demand to be paid earlier than everyone else. Why is IT different? Why is it OK to ignore THEIR rules if you don't like them? They know their jobs MUCH better than you do. And the reason those requests make it to the bottom of the pile is because being an asshole to the people whose help you need is pretty much the best way to ensure you don't get it.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    6. Re:Au contraire - INDEED by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

      I dont 'serve' you, we are peers.

      If you are in "support" than yes, you *do* serve me. We may be "peers", but I AM YOUR CUSTOMER.

      If you can't handle that, get out of "support".

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    7. Re:Au contraire - INDEED by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      I got news for you, desktop support is a TINY slice of what you think I.T is. And yes we support, not train. And often your desktop is my customer, not you, as laid out in inter-dept SLAs. The reason I.T. treats people at arms length is exactly because of people like you. I am not your trained monkey. you may request, you dont get to demand.

      --
      Good-bye
    8. Re:Au contraire - INDEED by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

      Did I specify "desktop"? No I did not. I'm still the customer, asshole, get over yourself.

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
  8. heldesk people writing articles wow! by ruir · · Score: 2

    No, your problems are not "people who think a shell is something you hold to your ear"; your bigger problems are people who *think* they know something, specially when in positions of power, or the miraculous consultants management brings him, that where captured by the consulting firm as rookies (because you know, rookies dont have vices and are better to "reprogram") that think they are the best thing since sliced bread, but only know how to use expensive suits, spew pretty reports and shrink wrap what bobs that hates you tells them during the "discover/gathering facts" phase.

  9. Remote Presence Devices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not just for wielding the clue bat. A camera to obviate the endless "what's on the screen" back-and-forth would often shorten the pain drastically.

    1. Re:Remote Presence Devices by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      If only someone invented something that allowed me to see what's on the person's screen...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re: Remote Presence Devices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've clearly never had one of those clients who cannot even find the address bar in internet explorer...

    3. Re: Remote Presence Devices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have clearly not heard of remote desktop sharing. It can even be initiated by the support person, and companywide configured to auto-accept on the users dekstop.

    4. Re: Remote Presence Devices by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      "But ... but ... but then the techs could SPY ON ME!!!!!1elevenexclamationmark!"

      Yeah. Because they got nothing better to do than watch you play Angry Birds. Why does everyone think he's interesting once his title starts with a C?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  10. Bad Analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So it was kind of like explaining to your mom to tell your grandfather (who is hard of hearing) how to do something while she is on the phone and he is across the room from her.

    This assumes that your grandfather is technical and your mom is not. Even then, your mom can just repeat what you say word for word loudly enough for grandpa to hear. I think a better analogy is to say it's like trying to work with someone that speaks another language, when the interpreter is not a technical person.

    1. Re:Bad Analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I think a better analogy is to say it's like trying to work with someone that speaks another language, when the interpreter is not a technical person.

      That's not an analogy. That's a summary.

  11. Use your cell phone by DigiShaman · · Score: 2

    When conducting remote support, the cell phone is an invaluable tool. For one, you can talk to someone directly as you walk them through the wiring closet / rack if needed. Most importantly, is the ability for them to take photos and send them via SMS. Video capture can be important if you suspect activity lights are wonky (failing switch, rare but happens). But most important, you are providing them to tools to help you dive remotely and be self-sufficient. Remember the phrase "help me, help you".

    --
    Life is not for the lazy.
    1. Re:Use your cell phone by Frankie70 · · Score: 1

      Remember the phrase "help me, help you"

      The right phrase is "Help me help you". The comma changes the meaning to something irrelevant to this discussion.

  12. I never thought I'd be one of these posters by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

    but consider yourself lucky someone wants or needs your help. This industry and capitalism's desire for endless efficiency and profit means a fair few of us reading your post are sitting at home without a job at all.

    I'd gladly sit on the phone through a translator to fix something, infact I'd be inclined to think you're probably at a medium sized business or smaller if you're dealing with something like that, so it's probably within your power to do some pretty interesting and dare I say "cowboy-ish" stuff. Once a business reaches a certain size, your hands are constantly tied for experimenting or learning.

    Meanwhile, yeah I'm here in my pajamas still at midday but my bank account won't last forever.

    1. Re:I never thought I'd be one of these posters by zephvark · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'd gladly sit on the phone

      You're doing it wrong.

      See, this is the kind of problem that makes it difficult for tech support to help you.

    2. Re:I never thought I'd be one of these posters by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

      If you read his post, I got the impression the link was down, remote access wasn't a viable option. If that means an administrator needs to talk someone through unplugging / re-plugging something or confirming a diagnostics LED, so be it, they're employed regardless.

    3. Re:I never thought I'd be one of these posters by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

      Oh wait, I just got it........sheeeit.

    4. Re:I never thought I'd be one of these posters by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      ***woooooosh

      If you're sitting on the phone, you probably can't hear whats being said or talk to the person on the other end.

      It was a joke.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    5. Re:I never thought I'd be one of these posters by sjames · · Score: 1

      I believe he's suggesting that sitting on a chair and talking on the phone is more effective than the other way around.

  13. this by BringsApples · · Score: 1

    This article really brings to light the fact that some people seem to require perfection to the extent that they cannot see life as it is, but only how it's supposed to be. There is no way to ease their frustration.

    If you work in support, you're going to eventually end up in a situation where there is a server that needs to be addressed, but there is no phone in that room, and so you end up with this same sort of scenario (talking through someone). You should probably just express your frustrations with your work mates, blow off some steam, try to laugh, but then forget about it.

    Lots of people in the IT world seem to feel that their ability/knowledge should allow them to get frustrated when things don't go smoothly. Hell one reason that I have a successful IT business is due to the fact that I'm able to cope with people who need my services. I make sure that I do it in a way that makes them feel better. That way whenever there's some PC problem at a site, no one there hates to have to call me, and then bombard me with criticism once I get there.

    Focus on the solution and the problem goes away. Make sure that the client is focused on what's going right, and not what's going wrong.

    --
    Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
    1. Re:this by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Personally, I'm surprised if someone in IT even knows what a shell is. As an end user I'm frustrated by being told to turn it off and back on again, or being transferred through three departments until they find the one and only IT employee who actually understands computers.

      Remote offices are great. It means not everyone has to crowd into the main headquarters, it also means that the IT people don't have to all crowd together too. What's good for all workers is good for IT workers, so it's a good thing to allow remote offices and allow working from home and allow going home at 5pm, etc. If too many complain about the frustration of remote users then be careful that the boss doesn't pull a Marissa Mayers and cancel the perqs.

      The solution is to put an IT worker in the remote site, or get a contractor on retainer. If it's a really small site then hopefully someone is at least in the region that can drive over. If not, well, put up with it because that remote site is most likely earning revenue for the company, and IT's job is to support the company.

  14. It's easier now by colinjl · · Score: 1

    My first experience of remote tech support was in 1986, when one of our systems in Bahrain needed support. The only communications available were phone or Telex. With timezone differences, we used Telex. I had to anticipate what might happen, describe what to look for, detail what to type, etc. without knowing if they'd get it right until the return Telex the next day. One of the trickier bits was describing what keys to press, as Telex had a far more limited character set than the computer keyboard. I would spend the first half of a message defining what keys I meant. Later experience showed me that users tend to lie: "Would you check that the cable is plugged in, please?" 3 microseconds later "Yep!" So I started resorting to "Please unplug the cable" 10 seconds later "OK". "Now plug it in again, please, and make sure it is the right way up and all the way in".

  15. what? by Charliemopps · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One example she gives is a tech support person whose systems in Brazil went down — during Carnival: "...We had to wait more than a week for the locals to sober up enough to reconnect the line. In the end, I had to walk a tech (who did not know the system) through the process step by step via an interpreter. Of course, the interpreter was not technical. So it was kind of like explaining to your mom to tell your grandfather (who is hard of hearing) how to do something while she is on the phone and he is across the room from her."

    Ok, that's just... I don't even know what it is... ethnocentric? It's stupid... not everyone in Brazil gets wasted during carnival. Businesses still run, things still work. If you had a line go down for a week without repair, that wasn't your remote users fault. That was your businesses fault for having a shit contract. Where we work we have tens of thousands of data and voice connections in every remote area you can imagine and there's no way something could go out for a week without a very good excuse like the building burnt down, or there was a flood. Even then we'd find a way around the problem temporarily. It's been more than one time I've kept a company in business with Cat5 strung through some trees.

    And the language thing? Give me an Fing break. I had to support a doctor in India that did not speak english, so I made a wild guess, hit the directory of the hospital and looked for an American sounding name. Sure enough it was an American and he was nice, helped translate. I sent him detailed instructions and he helped walk the other doctor through it. That's our Job If I'm a window washer, I'm not going to complain when I come across a dirty one.

  16. The website is down by RevWaldo · · Score: 1

    We may have to reboot it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    .

  17. /. is dead by vbraga · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Is this stuff that matters?!

    filling filling for the filter filling filling
    Cat got your tongue? (something important seems to be missing from your comment ... like the body or the subject!)
    Cat got your tongue? (something important seems to be missing from your comment ... like the body or the subject!)

    --
    English is not my first language. Corrections and suggestions are welcome.
  18. Got you all beat. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Applecare tech support, with a phone call from a tele-sign language interpreter.

    Talking to someone who is being filmed turning your words into sign language, which is sent over a shitty connection to a user looking for support on the computer that happens to be running the sign language call software.

    Exercise in futility. And illegal to hang up.

  19. You are there to serve them by iamacat · · Score: 2

    Calmly try your best for 40 hours/week or whatever you agreed to. Explain limitations and possible solutions, like user training and shifting parts of infrastructure to where you are in a better position to maintain it. Then set the limits, but don't be rude. You don't pay the company's bills, your users do.

  20. who hasn't made a 12 hour flight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to explain that the blue cable goes into the port with the nice big blue sticker, the yellow to yellow and green to green. In person because the email, phone calls and skype were apparently not enough.

    Then back to the airport and another 12 hour return home.

  21. Your company's fault actually by Torp · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... for not having contacted a local tech contractor with some english speaking skills that could help. Someone that comes in a couple hours now and then to solve any issues.
    Remote tech support is all fine and dandy, but sometimes you do need (technically literate) hands and eyes on the ground. I've taken care of servers on a different continent - 99% of the time I just ssh-ed in. The 1% I've had someone local - and technical! - drive in with a laptop and help.

    --
    I apologize for the lack of a signature.
    1. Re:Your company's fault actually by Daniel+Hoffmann · · Score: 1

      Correct and as a brazilian working in the IT field I can attest that those times of the year (carnaval, christmas, mothers day) the techies are usually doing overtime to assure your shit does not break down. Carnaval is like any other holiday either you are on call receiving overtime or you are not and the next day after the holiday is over is back to business as usual.

  22. BT, DT... by Terje+Mathisen · · Score: 1

    Many, many years ago (1986 or so?) we had a branch oil exploration office in Iran, surveying new oil fields close to the border with Iraq.

    Getting any kind of computer gear in or or out of the country was "difficult", and the best possible data connection was an extremely expensive 256 kbit/s satellite line.

    One day I was told to help, over a bad phone line, a guy down in Teheran whose PcDos computer had crashed:

    I was able to figure out that his crash had modified/overwritten the Boot Block on his hard drive, but that he did have a bootable Dos diskette available, so I sat for about 45 minutes on the phone, talking him through the DEBUG commands needed to load the boot block and manually modify it back to how it should have been, then write it back.

    It worked on the first attempt. :-)

    Terje

    --
    "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"
    1. Re:BT, DT... by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      DEBUG?

      How about FDISK /MBR and SYS C:?

    2. Re:BT, DT... by Terje+Mathisen · · Score: 1

      You are right, if it had been a pure Dos problem those would have worked, this probably means that the partition table was the victim, but I obviously don't remember all the details now. :-(

      --
      "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"
  23. I see it differently... by Max_W · · Score: 3, Insightful

    She works with a whole system in Brazil via an non technical interpreter? Did it ever occur to her to learn Portuguese language?

    1. Re:I see it differently... by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

      She works with a whole system in Brazil via an non technical interpreter? Did it ever occur to her to learn Portuguese language?

      Sure that's practical, along with learning all the languages of all the offices one has to support globally.

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    2. Re:I see it differently... by Max_W · · Score: 1

      Then at least she could avoid blaming a carnival, and concentrate more on her linguistic skills. Or hiring Portuguese speaking engineers instead of non technical interpreters to run a computer system in Brazil.

      Many people around the world speak English at different levels. Sometimes it is just Globish or an Airport English. But Brazil is an enormous country where people do speak Portuguese. No way around it.

    3. Re:I see it differently... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It depends on their situation.

      It's possible she works for a company with dozens of satellite sites across the globe, and the Brazil one was just a minor one. My friend is in that situation: literally 50+ sites, some have thousands of people and some have 10 people.

      In which case, what do you do? Lean dozens of languages... often so you can help the 5 Portuguese-speaking people in a site that hardly ever call?

    4. Re:I see it differently... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe the summary implied that while they had someone that could NORMALLY help the customer / or at least the primary IT in the US... but said person was having fun at Carnivale.

      So the only person they could get ahold of was a non-tech employee to act as an interpreter for the customer.

    5. Re:I see it differently... by BitZtream · · Score: 0

      Not being able to communicate with people you are hired to support is most certainly your problem. If she had no viable method to do the job, why did she accept it? That makes her pretty stupid from the start.

      If you want to talk about practical, it started long before someone mentioned learning the language.

      Do you think its okay for someone to claim they are a Java developer without knowing a single bit of Java?

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    6. Re:I see it differently... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Frankly we have exactly the same problem at my place, we have a small office in Brazil, while our main office is in London. 80% of my work is supporting systems in the UK and 20% in overseas offices, but support for our Brazil office is tacked on. The applications and technology I am supporting for the London office are so obscure and industry specific that I seriously doubt that there is anyone in the world who can support the UK software and speaks Portuguese.

      The best bit is that the applications used in Brazil is very standard and it would be fairly easy to get someone to support them, but their are not enough of them to justify having a support person on tap.

    7. Re:I see it differently... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My guess is they didnt want to actually pay for the 24/7 tech availability (or were stupid enough not to require it in contract) and now they are reaping the benefits (and blaming someone else)

    8. Re:I see it differently... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You hire bi-fucking-lingual locals at the remote site (or train them if you are that remote). but that would cost more than the cheap labour they get now. It is _all_ about the company not wanting to actually pay what it costs to get what they need/want. You do NOT whine about how the people you hired with a certain skillset under a ceetain contract does not have a different skillset or are not working outside the agreed contract, even if you only hired them on a site you hardly ever call.

      This person is a whining about a problem they (or at least their own company) have 100% created for themself. And then trying to blame it on "lazy brazillian culture" thats just sad.

      You would only need one person (per language used at remote sites) at the main site who speaks the remote sites local language... a great way to get that race-diversity quota filled up i suppose. and it might be worth it when you need the help of those portugese people.

    9. Re:I see it differently... by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

      Then at least she could avoid blaming a carnival, and concentrate more on her linguistic skills. Or hiring Portuguese speaking engineers instead of non technical interpreters to run a computer system in Brazil.

      Many people around the world speak English at different levels. Sometimes it is just Globish or an Airport English. But Brazil is an enormous country where people do speak Portuguese. No way around it.

      Or maybe the people in Brazil were out partying instead of working. Were you there somehow and you have information that lets you assume that the author is actually incorrect in their statement?

      Anyway. I support networks in many countries around the world including Brazil and it is just not realistic to learn another language to be able to support them.

      Perhaps if it were my primary or only customer base, maybe. But you have no idea that this is the case with the author.

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    10. Re:I see it differently... by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

      Not being able to communicate with people you are hired to support is most certainly your problem. If she had no viable method to do the job, why did she accept it? That makes her pretty stupid from the start.

      If you want to talk about practical, it started long before someone mentioned learning the language.

      Do you think its okay for someone to claim they are a Java developer without knowing a single bit of Java?

      What in the world are you talking about? Did you even bother to read the article?

      Let me help you:
      "Unfortunately, this was during Carnival. The local phone company did not answer, and the local employees did not answer their mobile phones. After two days we got someone from the phone company on the line — and they were too drunk to understand us."

      Where in that is there a language problem?

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    11. Re:I see it differently... by Max_W · · Score: 1

      ... it is just not realistic to learn another language to be able to support them ...

      It is quite common in Europe to speak two or three languages fluently. If there are 2 - 3 engineers who speak 2 - 3 languages fluently then most of the major languages are covered.

      By the way, it is often just a stereotype that all people are drunk here or there. Brazil economy grew 2.5% in 2013, it is certainly achieved by hard working people.

    12. Re:I see it differently... by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

      ... it is just not realistic to learn another language to be able to support them ...

      It is quite common in Europe to speak two or three languages fluently. If there are 2 - 3 engineers who speak 2 - 3 languages fluently then most of the major languages are covered.

      By the way, it is often just a stereotype that all people are drunk here or there. Brazil economy grew 2.5% in 2013, it is certainly achieved by hard working people.

      I live in Europe and I speak two languages fluently but I still believe it's completely impractical to learn all the languages when supporting a global deployment of systems or network devices. If you had to interface with users, then I would agree - but that isn't the case here.

      Anyway, if you read the article the problems they encountered had nothing to do with language:
      "Unfortunately, this was during Carnival. The local phone company did not answer, and the local employees did not answer their mobile phones. After two days we got someone from the phone company on the line — and they were too drunk to understand us."

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
  24. What is support? by gelfling · · Score: 1

    This is the NEW economy, pal. There's no support. But no one cares either because all executives are compensated according to how LITTLE they spend even if, especially if, the job done is shit.

  25. Soo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like you missed a chance to go to Brazil for carnivale

  26. Did it a long time ago ... by kbahey · · Score: 1

    I had to deal with a remote customer whose person on site does not speak English, by getting him to enter UNIX shell commands. His native language (and mine) was Arabic.

    What I did was to tell him what Arabic key to press so that the English equivalent would be the one sent to the shell.

    We were lucky that his Arabic keyboard layout was the same as mine. That was not a given in those days (Late 80s, early 90s), but we lucked out.

    He was describing to me the output in English (vertical bar, vertical bar with a circle at the bottom, ...etc).

    It worked out and we solved the problem in less than an hour.

  27. "Best" users by freeze128 · · Score: 2

    I disagree.

    For your company, remote users are the most expensive to support. It often takes several minutes to try to make the user understand what you want them to do, and to do it PROPERLY, where locally, you could just go to a user's desk and fix the problem in seconds.

    When dealing with local users, you get to use *ALL* of your senses to diagnose a problem. Does the computer feel abnormally hot? Does it smell like something burning? Can you see that the little tab on the ethernet cable is broken off?

    Likewise, users on the other end of the phone are trying to describe a problem to you using only their voice, and they don't know the jargon: "There is this THING on my browser and it won't go away."
    What is this THING that they are talking about? A window? An icon? A toolbar?

    All of these factors use up a lot of time, and time costs money.

    Also, isolating yourself from the users limits the quality of your work. If you work with them, and see how they use their computers, it will give you a better overall view which helps you support them even better in the future.

    1. Re:"Best" users by HappyPsycho · · Score: 1

      For your company, remote users are the most expensive to support. It often takes several minutes to try to make the user understand what you want them to do, and to do it PROPERLY, where locally, you could just go to a user's desk and fix the problem in seconds.

      Therein lies a pretty big problem IMHO, even if it takes you a couple minutes the remote user can now deal with the issue themselves (assuming its something that doesn't require co-ordination with us). Also they now have documentation (in the form of e-mail) in the event they forget. If you just walk over to the user's desk they are not going to bother remembering how to fix it themselves they will remember where your desk is the next time.

      I acknowledge from a debugging perspective it can be harder but I work for an ISP, most cases are remote and we've put in lots of instrumentation to help in those circumstances. As for some of my local users, they know where my desk is by heart and almost never provide any sort of useful information in their reports.

  28. Support peeps who bitch about users ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

    ... should STFU.

    Professionals walk a fine line between dealing with distraught users and causing World War III.

    Doing your job in a way where you get invited to lunch with your other coworkers is the right way to do things.

    People who call users "idiots" are "jerks".

    So it is written, so let it be done.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  29. Solved! by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    I got so tired of supporting remote offices that I outsourced that task to a remote office.