Canadian Regulator Threatens To Impose New Netflix Regulation

An anonymous reader writes: Netflix appeared before the Canadian broadcast regulator today, resulting in a remarkably heated exchange, with threats of new regulation. The discussion was very hostile — the CRTC repeatedly ordered Netflix to provide subscriber information and other confidential data. As tempers frayed, the Canadian regulator expressed disappointment over the responses from a company that it said "takes hundreds of millions of dollars out of Canada." The CRTC implicitly threatened to regulate the company by taking away its ability to rely on the new media exception if it did not cooperate with its orders.

Comments

why does the CRTC need this list?

[ganjadude]

why does anyone other than netflix need to know who their customers are?

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Anonymous Coward]

The CRTC is in the pockets of companies that don't like netflix, aka cable companies.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah! So the cable companies get the list form the CRTC and then send goons to all the Netflix subscribers and force them to watch Star Trek: The Motion Picture a hundred times in a row all the while, screaming, "How do you like Netflix now!"

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Archangel Michael]

CRTC is nothing more than another bureaucratic regulatory agency that is seeking to expand its powers by doing the bidding of the kings and queens, against the interests of the serfs. Anyone that seeks to limit these new expansions of powers is quickly labeled as wanting "Somalia" or "Dirty air and water" or other such nonsense.

The result, is the fear mongers win, and those are the Bureaucrats and Politicians seeking to expand their power and authority, and bribes and future "consulting agreements"

So, the next time a Libertarian mentions limiting government, and you kneejerk into a "somalia" rant, here is what you're actually promoting. This is actual reality of what your viewpoint actually is advocating. Nice Job A-Hole

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[__aaclcg7560]

Probably to send out advertisement that Latino channels in Spanish are available. I get those all the time in Silicon Valley.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Charliemopps]

why does anyone other than netflix need to know who their customers are?

Why does a government regulatory body need to know who your customers are? Are you kidding?

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[i kan reed]

To clarify, in this case they claim that netflix doesn't do enough to encourage the production and consumption of Canadian entertainment, a requirement they place on other distributors.

So they're, in theory, doing exactly what you say, just in less harsh terms. They want to ensure the continued interest of Canadian producers, and not American.

And they're using arbitrary leverage like demanding subscriber lists to push netflix to obey. It's not neat or nice. But they're kinda being upfront that it's just leverage not genuine interest in the records.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Tailhook]

Tax subscribers. Obviously. The funds will be pissed away giving Canadian cable executives better bonuses

Is Canada still taxing blank media to subsidize the "victims" of "piracy?"

Whatever. Enjoy your cable monopoly Canuckistan. You deserve it. As do we.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

Check the facts before making snap judgements. This article is blatantly misleading to the events that actually occurred. Here's the actual video from the hearing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Summary: Commission is seeking information to make a decision - even in its conversation with Netflix they state they are not leaning in any direction (regulation or deregulation). The commission requested information, Netflix rep refused to commit to provide it. This pissed off the head of the CRTC because Netflix doesn't have a choice - by operating in Canada they must provide the information. The CRTC repeatedly had to make it an order for Netflix to provide the information it was requesting to backup assertions made by Netflix to the commission with actual facts/data.

Re: why does the CRTC need this list?

[NeutronCowboy]

Wow. Every regulatory agency is just there to expand its own powers? They do nothing else?

The reason people point you at Somalia is because your hyperbole leads you directly there. Want to have a civilized discussion about the optImal size of government? Great, start by dropping the ridiculous hyperbole.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[iriecolorado]

"What does God need with a starship?"

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[lgw]

No, really, why is it anyone's business at all?

Governments' legitimate interest in regulation is in product safety and fraud prevention, not in deciding who gets to do business with whom and at what price.

We've had far too many "regulation: good vs bad?" debates here on /., and we should really stop that, as that's a silly question. The interesting question is "regulation: what scope?".

Is there any legitimate reason for a government regulatory body to inspect and control subscriber lists for an entertainment product? Any good reason for it to examine who has watched what? I can think of only evil reasons: to target people with the wrong tastes in (legal) entertainment as anti-government dissidents: likely troublemakers to take pre-emptive action against. That's an old song that many governments have seen before, and one we don't need ot hear in Canada or the US!

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[aristotle-dude]

why does anyone other than netflix need to know who their customers are?

Why does a government regulatory body need to know who your customers are? Are you kidding?

No, we are not kidding. Tell us why bureaucrats, who are paid for by tax payer dollars need to know anything. I want to know who is being bribed and by who so I can both demand that the official be fired immediately and so that we can demand that the bribers can be brought up on bribery charges.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[doconnor]

I suspect they just want to know how many customers they have, not specifically who they are.

One of the CRTC jobs is to ensure Canadian TV content gets created and we are not stuck with 100% American programming and Canadian culture disappears entirely. If everyone starts watching all their TV on Netflex and similar services, Canadian TV could all but disappear. Most counties other then US have systems to ensure domestic content is produced, but Canada is so close to the US, the pressure far greater.

Movies aren't subject to regulation and Canadian made movies are barely seen in cinemas (and the few that are tend to be based on Canadian TVs shows).

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[aristotle-dude]

The CRTC is in the pockets of companies that don't like netflix, aka cable companies.

Fire the CRTC from the top to the bottom. If they are having their salaries paid for by taxpayers but are not looking out for their interests then let them go work directly for the cable companies instead.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[lucm]

No it's not. That's quite the opposite: most cable companies would like to see the CRTC go away because it forces those who have specialized channels (basically every single profitable cable company) to contribute to a big pool of money that public services can tap into to subsidize their ad-free programming (which directly competes with private cable companies) and to pay for content that nobody cares about and that will never make money (a la CSPAN or PBS).

The truth is that the CRTC is mostly a symbolic agency with very little power. They report to the Minister of Canadian Heritage, which has maybe 3 employees and 2 interns. They don't control the frequencies or anything like that.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[jedidiah]

> I suspect they just want to know how many customers they have, not specifically who they are.

Nonsense.

I am sure that Netflix is more than willing to BRAG about how many Canadian customers it has, or how many customers it has in ANY country.

Way different kettle of fish than actual subscriber info.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Anonymous Coward]

... by operating in Canada they must provide the information.

Netflix maintains that they do not operate in Canada. They do not have Canadian employees, nor do they have offices in Canada.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[doconnor]

It was the number of subscribers:

http://business.financialpost....

Estimates of the number of Canadian subscribes are only available from surveys:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2...

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[afidel]

that nobody cares about ... or PBS).

Your ignorance is showing.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

... by operating in Canada they must provide the information.

Netflix maintains that they do not operate in Canada. They do not have Canadian employees, nor do they have offices in Canada.

This is a common misconception. You do not need to have a physical presence in a country anymore to be operating there. You need "significant ties" - hundreds of thousands/millions of customers qualifies as "significant ties".

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Dixie_Flatline]

I'm not sure if anyone commenting on this story is actually Canadian, but the Canadian Content mandate has existed for years. It's not about favouring Canadian production companies so much as encouraging Canadian content for cultural reasons. Being so close to the USA leaves us vulnerable to sort of being swamped, culturally.

Radio stations are required to play a certain amount of Canadian music as well. It's not really anything new.

Personally, I like the idea of that. It encourages and funds a lot of Canadian artists that might otherwise get swamped out of the market by monied American interests.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[LifesABeach]

Could it be that Terrorists watch movies? In Canada? And that the Kanucks don't know who they are unless they subscribe to Netflix?

What a great Movie and Game idea!

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[DoofusOfDeath]

Maybe they should just offer a link to a free YYZ download with every Netflix membership. Problem solved.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[taustin]

And Canada doesn't?

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

why does anyone other than netflix need to know who their customers are?

They weren't asking for who the customers where, they were asking for a total subscriber number (I'd suspect to help assess the scale of "new media" vs traditional broadcaster market penetration), information on Canadian content (aggregate, anonymous information not customer specific), and information on PIPEDA compliance (Canadian privacy law).

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[oh_my_080980980]

Except Netflix is **not** a Canadian company.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

Yay useless, ad hominem comments.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[taustin]

That sounds great until there is a conflict between the laws of different countries, like the Microsoft/Irish data center case. When a company can't obey the laws of one country without breaking the laws of the other, it's not a legal issue involving the company, it's a political issue between two governments.

And if it comes to One World Government taking precedence over all others, it won't be Canada deciding what international law is.

Canada only has jurisdiction over what is can enforce its orders on. If Netflix has no employees or assets in Canada, Canada has no jurisdiction over Netflix.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

Except Netflix is **not** a Canadian company.

Your point? ABC/NBC/Fox/etc are not Canadian companies, they still have to comply with CanCon rules within Canada. Netflix is operating under an exemption from those rules right now.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[oh_my_080980980]

What!?! Citation needed. Yes you need a physical presence. International law has not changed. Good luck dragging Netflix into a Canadian court of law.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[mrchaotica]

Then why did they appear before the Commission at all? If they truly do not operate in Canada, then nothing the CRTC does affects them and they could blow off the whole thing with impunity.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am Canadian and wonder just what the fuck the CRTC wants with subscriber lists. They're of no value to the CRTC. Maybe they should shut the fuck up.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

There are a bunch of cases out there in Canada/UK/US (like the Microsoft/Ireland case posted by taustin)

Here's a nice summary by a law firm from a privacy standpoint: http://www.nixonpeabody.com/fi... which is based on rulings like: https://www.priv.gc.ca/cf-dc/2...

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[LifesABeach]

And who can forget, "Wind At My Back"? Brilliant!

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[pslytely psycho]

No it doesn't.
Canada blows, Mexico sucks.
That's why the prevailing winds in North America are north to south......

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[doconnor]

Show written by and for an Americans but filmed here may contribute to the Canadian economy, but they do little for Canadian culture.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[dskoll]

If everyone starts watching all their TV on Netflex and similar services, Canadian TV could all but disappear.

Speaking as a proud Canadian, I say: Good. That's called the power of the free market.

I have no doubt that 90% of Canadian content producers would shrivel up and die without CRTC protection. I also have no doubt that the survivors would adapt, improve, and make shows that people actually want to watch, possibly even opening up an export market for Canadian content.

Any time the government protects cultural content, the quality of that content plummets because there's no free market competition to keep producers sharp.

Government can help content producers with strategic investments. TV Ontario produces far superior shows to the CBC with a fraction of the amount of government investment and in a commercial-free environment. The CBC needs to go commercial-free and concentrate on making decent shows, not copycat shows of American crap.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[kristianbrigman]

Except.... cable companies program what they are going to play. Netflix plays what their subscribers want to see. What are they supposed to do, put up a notice saying 'You can't watch the next episode of "Under the Dome" until you first watch your quota of 3 of these other Canadian shows?' The rules don't even make sense for the Netflix model.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

The Microsoft case is definitely interesting but ultimately it comes down to origin of the data. I suspect that it'll end up coming down to a question of whether or not the data originated in the US (ie US user on US soil submitting the information) and is then delivered to another country. If the latter is the case then the new country does not have full jurisdiction over the data - just like if a company shipped paper documents to another country they'd be guilty of obstructing an investigation.

As to the jurisdictional issue, just look at the Microsoft case, similar cases in the UK, and ones in Canada (see links in other post for examples). Like it or not it's the reality.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Citizen of Earth]

Huh? The American networks as carried in Canada do not have 50% Canadian content in prime time. In fact, it's probably zero percent.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Bob the Super Hamste]

Sadly one of the most watched things on netflix in my household is Mighty Machines which is a Canadian show. With 2 small boys it is a godsend and so much less grating that Hard Hat Harry.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[geekmux]

The CRTC is in the pockets of companies that don't like netflix, aka cable companies.

So, they'll end up with a list of people who can't stand cable companies?

Oh yeah, I can smell the value steaming out the marketing department already.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[i kan reed]

Netflix plays what their subscribers want to see

Then why do they have so many reality TV shows? Ugh.

No, but really, the set of inputs to what Netflix has is quite complicated. They love things with cheap per showing licenses, like off-the-air TV shows, unpopular movies, documentaries where the producers are more interested in pushing a message than making a profit, and a smattering of more popular "draw" shows/movies to bring in the popular audience.

And then there's the loss-leader shows trying to get people to start watching the series as it comes out, either on pay services or with commercials.

And then there's the various "taste profiles" of the people who are netflix subscribers, and what's both cheap and good within that frame.

There's some pitiable accountants in the company who's responsible for balancing all those factors, while making a profit.

Reducing all that to "giving the people what they want" is a little unpragmatic.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Noah Haders]

Wasn't there something in the news recently about a Canadian streaming co and Netflix?

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

It's 55% from 6pm to midnight, however, part of the way they get around it is that commercials are included which means they only need to air 66 minutes of non-commercial Canadian content during that period. Usually that takes the form of news.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[omkhar]

CanCon doesn't mandate playing Canadian music per se. Time spent by the hosts reading the news or other such content counts towards CanCon.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

They didn't ask for subscriber lists - they asked for the total number of subscribers only.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[rider_prider]

No I don't think they do, american feeds on cable come across untouched for content, except of course ads....

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Mashiki]

You've got no idea of what you're talking about. The biggest reach that politicians have on this is being able to threaten to take their mandate away on broadcast regulatory issues. And it has nothing to do with libertarianism, this is due to excessive regulation not too little. And why is this happening? Because the CRTC is packed with suits from the major telcos, cableco's, and industry insiders. I'm sure someone will scream "lulz harper" but I'll point out now that this is how it has been since the CRTC got started.

The CRTC mandates: internet, pricing controls for the internet, third party pricing controls for the internet, cancon, who can or can't have a broadcast license, telephone, telephone quality, and several other things. Industry Canada on the other hand their biggest reach is spectrum.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[rhazz]

Canada only has jurisdiction over what is can enforce its orders on. If Netflix has no employees or assets in Canada, Canada has no jurisdiction over Netflix.

The CRTC doesn't need jurisdiction over Netflix to make them play ball. They already have jursidiction over the ISPs which deliver Netflix content to canadian consumers, and I'm sure they could easily make doing business in Canada more expensive for them. If Netflix was untouchable then they would not have bothered to show up to the hearings.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[rhazz]

Personally, I'd love to see Netflix carry Têtes à claques

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[kristianbrigman]

That's not the point... i don't know the details, maybe it's more complicated than this, but as i understand it there are rules about playing X% of canadian content. for a radio station, this means that if there are 24 hours in a day, they may need to play e.g. 10 hours of canadian music and 14 hours of everything else (announcers, commercials, foreign music, etc). And you either listen to it, or don't, but you can guarantee a certain percentage of supply. If you watch or listen to any particular station for any length of time, you'll see or listen to some canadian content.

Netflix doesn't work like that... i say i want to watch X, Y, and Z. if those aren't canadian, what do they realistically want netflix to do? throttle me? pay a tax on every non-canadian item? force the catalog of choices to be X% canadian? ensure that some canadian content is shown (but that's usually based on my watching history... guess it would have to take some additional input)? none of those are really very similar to the content quotas on radio/TV, and are far less effective at promoting Canadian cultural content....

in general, culture is transitioning from a push model to a pull model. There's just not as much room for central control of any kind to meaningfully control it.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[phorm]

Being so close to the USA leaves us vulnerable to sort of being swamped, culturally.

What *is* culturally *Canadian*? Seriously, we've all seen the stereotypes like mounties and beavers (or a mountain and a wolf a la "Due South"), but is that really a defining part of Canadian identity?

I enjoyed "Bon Cop Bad Cop", but it wasn't really special content-wise. I certainly hope that we're not expecting that "Trailer Park Boys" or "Corner Gas" is really Canadian? Do we expect the actors to drink Canadian beer instead of Bud?

A lot of so-called American movies are actually shot in Canadian cities too, so scenery-wise they're pretty domestic. Ditto for Canadian actors (particular comedic actors) in American movies.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[substance2003]

It's the commercials.

Let's say a US show like Sleepy Hollow from Fox is playing for instance.
I'm only thinking of that one as it's totally being bombarded on me as part of the fall lineup at the moment and know which station in the US plays it.
Now, Global TV in Canada has the rights to play that same show in Canada and is doing so at the same time.
Well what would be the point of paying for ads on Global if everyone is watching the US feed via cable and satellite?
So the solution is to have the Global TV feed play which is playing simultaneously to FOX replace the feed from the FOX channel and insure we see those commercials targeting Canadians. At least that's what I was noticing when I had cable. I believe there is talk about changing that.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Mashiki]

Huh? The American networks as carried in Canada do not have 50% Canadian content in prime time. In fact, it's probably zero percent.

You're right, the only reason they don't is because the channels that are canadian get overwritten by the cableco/satellite provider when it's also broadcast on a US channel. So they get their "canadian content" that way. The only way to get a US channel in Canada that isn't simulcast is by OTA.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[future assassin]

Canadian culture disappears entirely. If everyone starts watching all their TV on Netflex and similar services, Canadian TV could all but disapper.

What Canadian culture? I am Canadian culture, my friends are Canadian culture, a big chunk of the Canadian population being immigrants are Canadian culture. Maybe they should make more Native shows/programming to teach some Canadian culture.

90% of things we buy is made somewhere else but Canada. How about penalizing clothing manufacturers unless they make certain amount of clothing in Canada with a Canadian theme.

`

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[kuzb]

Watching under the dome wouldn't be a reward, it would be a punishment.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[phorm]

Replying to my own comment. Good shows stand up themselves. "Just for Laughs Gags" for example, has a segment in the US and even Asian markets/Mexico. Perhaps that could be considered a kooky "Canadian" sense of human, and it's certainly popular everywhere.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[c-A-d]

There is no real "canadian culture" where mass media is concerned. As for the definition of Canadian Culture, I think the best one I've heard is, "It's not american".

My nickel (now that we no longer have pennies).

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[BringsApples]

I didn't know that, probably many here didn't. But it does seem a bit odd, as I've never even heard of such a thing happening in any other country. Why doesn't Canada just take justin beiber back, call it even?

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[c-A-d]

Clothing is tarriffed on import. I know, I got nailed with that when I came back from India a few years back.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Gliscameria]

Alternatively - Netflix tells Canada that it will pull Canadian content off of their service. I've watched some great Canadian stuff on Netflix that I would have normally never found. Netflix is in the business of promoting what's good (and their own stuff...). If you want Canadians to consume canadian made stuff then just keep on making good stuff. This sounds like something Saudis would do.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[dskoll]

How about penalizing clothing manufacturers unless they make certain amount of clothing in Canada with a Canadian theme.

You've been listening to the CBC again. Link is to an excellent Canadian comedy show, by the way, that I'm sure would survive even without CanCon protection.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Gliscameria]

WARNING CITIZEN - As of 20:34 Sept 20 2014 you have consumed 90% of your allowed American Culture Units (ACU). If you exceed 100% of your allowed units you must report to your local Canadian Reintegration Center within 15 days. Your ACU allotment will reset on Oct 1, 2014.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[__aaclcg7560]

Just because you can see Russia over the North Pole from your backdoor step doesn't mean that Russia blows. The polar bears are a different story.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[mark-t]

Is Canada still taxing blank media

Youu mean the blank media levy? Yes.

Which is particularly ironic now that Bill C-11 passed in 2011 (despite otherwise unanimous objection to it by all other parties, the Conservative government, controlling slightly more than 50% of the seats in the House of Commons, was able to finally push it through, which they had been trying to do repeatedly since 2006, and were only able to do so once they had a majority government), and which happens to make it illegal to bypass or break any kind of technological protection measures on copyrighted works, even for personal use, and considering the increased reliance of such measures in an only ever-increasingly digital era, this bill makes the levy on blank media, which was supposed to exist to subsidize for private copying only by the way (not piracy, as some people believe), an extra expense that Canadians are paying for and practically don't even have the right to legally enjoy (although the government has said they will not enforce the bill in matters for strictly private use, it would still apparently be technically illegal).

Did I mention that I really hate the Canadian Conservative government? I sure as hell didn't vote for them.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[superdave80]

The problem with broadcast vs. internet streaming is that the streaming companies don't have a set amount of broadcast time. Netflix is on demand, so it only streams what a customer asks. The networks can set x% of their broadcast time to Canadian content, but that won't fly with a service like Netflix.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Minwee]

Is Canada still taxing blank media to subsidize the "victims" of "piracy?"

Yes. Is the USA still allowing copyright trolls to financially ruin people in ways that are not legal in Canada?

Enjoy that.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Gliscameria]

CSPAN is pretty damn essential. Sure, most of it is just ambient noise for catching sleep in a hotel, but just about anytime you see or hear any footage of some politician doing actual dumb stuff while at their job - it's from CSPAN.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Minwee]

Except Netflix is **not** a Canadian company.

If they want to operate in Canada, then they **are**.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[TubeSteak]

Governments' legitimate interest in regulation is in product safety and fraud prevention, not in deciding who gets to do business with whom and at what price.

That's a nice statement of "scope," to bad it completely ignores reality.
Government (in most states) sets the prices for utilities.
Government sets build out requirements for utilities.
Government prevents discrimination in the offering of services.
Government requires handicap accessibility in public accommodations.
Government prevents excessive interest rates being charged on loans.
I could go on.

Government has a legitimate interest in deciding who gets to do business with whom and at what price.
Unless you want to abandon all the existing protections of the law, you might want to redefine what you consider to be the appropriate scope of government regulation.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[jader3rd]

It's not about favouring Canadian production companies so much as encouraging Canadian content for cultural reasons. Being so close to the USA leaves us vulnerable to sort of being swamped, culturally.

Given that the only show I'm watching right now is Continuum (and via Netflix) should I be feeling culturally swamped by Canada right now?

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[jader3rd]

Then why did they appear before the Commission at all? If they truly do not operate in Canada, then nothing the CRTC does affects them and they could blow off the whole thing with impunity.

Because they have Canadian customers (both subscribers and producers of shows), and if a deal could be worked out by talking, they might as well try to talk.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[jader3rd]

One of the CRTC jobs is to ensure Canadian TV content gets created and we are not stuck with 100% American programming and Canadian culture disappears entirely. If everyone starts watching all their TV on Netflex and similar services, Canadian TV could all but disappear.

So if Canada got rid of the CRTC they could pay less in taxes, and get to watch what they want to watch? Dear me, whatever shall we do?

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Minwee]

It just proves so called Canadian culture, art, music sucks and cannot stand on it own two feet. Canada would rather have American culture than its own shitty home grown crap.

Hell yeah! Why would they want to see Canadian movies when they could be watching films with good, ole AMERICAN actors like Dan Ackroyd, Raymond Burr, John Candy, Neve Campbell, Jim Carrey, Michael Cera, James Doohan, Nathan Fillion, Michael J. Fox, Matt Frewer, Lorne Greene, Corey Haim, Phil Hartman, Tricia Helfer, Michael Ironside, Margot Kidder, Eugene Levy, Eric McCormack, Norm McDonald, Rick Moranis, Carrie-Anne Moss, Mike Myers, Leslie Neilsen, Catherine O'Hara, Sandra Oh, Tahmoh Penikett, Christopher Plummer, Seth Rogen, William Shatner, Martin Short, Jewel Staite, Donald Sutherland... Heck, that's half the cast of almost every Comedy or SF film ever made.

All Canada has is Justin Bieber and Nickleback.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Minwee]

Why doesn't Canada just take justin beiber back, call it even?

Unless the USA restores him to the condition in which he was originally received, they're going to have to forfeit their damage deposit.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

Netflix isn't subject to the CanCon requirements nor has anyone indicated they should be. In that particular model the focus is not on the amount of time watched it's on the level of promotion received and amount/quality available. In this regard, if you watch the video I posted, they focus on questions regarding how much Netflix is investing in production of Canadian works (that meet the CanCon definition), how their promotion of Canadian content works, etc.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

It happens all over the place. Even in the hearing they discussed the French equivalent of the CRTC and how Netflix was dealing with the 2% VOD tax.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[dargon]

It just proves so called Canadian culture, art, music sucks and cannot stand on it own two feet. Canada would rather have American culture than its own shitty home grown crap.

One could say this, one could also say that American mass market programming a) just appeals to the lowest common denominator (reality crap, game shows, manipulated news programs, etc etc) b) is so overpowering and invasive that it's like the kudzu of the media world.

The US has a much larger budget for the production of TV shows, music, etc, that a country with a population that is only slightly more than 10% of yours (35.3M vs 317M) just plain and simply can't compete, so we know this and have simply enabled laws to protect our culture in that regard. Imagine what a movie like Avatar would look like if instead of of a budget of $237M it had been created with a budget of $23.7M (please note, I'm not going to get into the argument of whether or not it was a good movie overall, but it had pretty damn good special effects). The difference would have been night and day, lesser known actors of probably lesser caliber (Sigourny Weaver earned $8M on her own for her role, with a budget of just $23.7M no way would they have gotten her), much poorer special effects (think the Scorpion King in the Mummy 2 and how bad he looked), etc etc.

Just because we tend to consume more US culture, art, music, etc than our own, in no way means ours sucks, just yours is more shiny.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

That's what the CRTC is trying to accomplish - their end-game is that there will be companies paying for the production of good/high budget content from Canada. Not to be confused with "about Canada" - they really don't care if it's Caillou or Porkeys as long as money continues to be put back into the Canadian industry not just taken out.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Obfuscant]

Netflix is in the business of promoting what's good (and their own stuff...).

Netflix neither knows nor cares what is good or bad, they're in the business of selling people what people will pay to see.

If you want Canadians to consume canadian made stuff then just keep on making good stuff.

Those laws were created a long time ago when Canada was pushing back against the USification of broadcast television content. It has nothing to do with trying to force Canadians to consume Canadian made stuff.

I, for one, am glad those laws exist, because it promoted the creation of shows like SCTV (not the SCTV New York dreck) and "You Can't Do That On Television". Gosh I miss Moose. And even Barth.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

That's why the CRTC is focusing on availability, investment, and promotion in their questions to Netflix.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[vm146j2]

Oh yeah! I drive through Ontario all the time, tune in CBC two, and they really bring great unheard of (even on alt US stations) bands. Along with every Gordon Lightfoot song ever, over and over.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[lgw]

Sure, sure, preventing discrimination is good, but that's a somewhat limited excursion into regulating who can do business that ensures more people can participate in the economy. But what we usually see is government doing the opposite granting monopoly, and otherwise excluding people form the market, instead of busting trusts and otherwise enabling participation.

We see this in spades in the entertainment industry in the US, with cable monopolies being granted like localities were competing in "monopoly granting" as an Olympic sport or something.

But anyway, none of that has anything to do with giving the government access to what books you read, or what movies you watch, or the like. Governments just need to stay the Hell away from that data, even if it would be convenient for the government, well, too bad!

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

In 2012 Time Warner lost more revenue ($29 billion) than the top 10 grossing media companies in Canada made in 2011 ($24 billion combined) and still managed $3.5 billion in profit.

If CanCon and Canadian media ownership rules didn't exist, there would be no Canadian media/content - it would have been bought up decades ago.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

The lawyer was the one being questioned by the commission and the commission has the authority to obtain the documents just as the FCC has the same authority in the US.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Archangel Michael]

Netflix is providing content Canadians want, and the government is deciding that isn't good enough. Netflix is STREAMING video, and there is a shit ton of content available, most of it isn't Canadian. If Netflix is required to carry one Canadian show, per non-Canadian show, they better start making a shit ton of new shows. Otherwise it is impossible to comply. Basically it shows that the original mandate is no longer feasible because of technology changes. This is exactly what can be expected when the world changes around those that wish it to remain the same.

Good luck making it work.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Obfuscant]

This is the key question, because unless Canaduh expects it's Netflix using citizens to pay a tax on each video they watch, it's really NONE of their business...

There are a large number of people in the US who care very much if the companies they deal with have corporate offices in the US so they will be paying US business taxes on money they make by selling things in the US. Burger King has a lot of people angry because it bought Tim Horton's and it was claimed that they were moving their corporate HQ to Canada to avoid US taxes. Several other companies are doing the same thing, and our President has said he's going to stop this if the congress doesn't.

So, perhaps, the Canadian government has a vested interest in knowing how may of Netflix' customers are in Canada so they know if Netflix is paying the right amount of Canadian taxes on the money they make from Canadian services?

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[BringsApples]

See, to my way of thinking, and probably netflix's too, TV is a stream of information built by the network that doesn't generate "members" but rather "subscribers". These subscribers know that the information stream is going to have stuff that they don't want to see (forced Canadian commercials). Netflix has "members", but those members get to choose their own stream of information. What's the problem with Canada making movies, and putting them on netflix for everyone to choose to watch? It'd be the same thing as dictating to stores that rent videos (do these still even exist?) that not only do they have to make available videos made by Canada, but they have to force their members to rent those videos - this or pay a tax to Canada.

Where am I thinking wrong?

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

There are numerous treaties/agreements that can be used, but usually they just place a lien on their accounts for any fines levied. It's also not going to be chaos because it's been done for decades. How do you think US lawsuits got money out of foreign manufacturing companies with no presence in the US?

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

CRTC has a lot of issues but I'm actually encouraged by Blais' actions - he's actually willing to use the power given to him to get things done. Slower than I'd like and with far too many compromises to protect incumbents in the short term but everything has been moving in the right direction, generally speaking.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

They won't end up with any list - they didn't ask them for a subscriber list they asked them for the total number of subscribers. A very different thing.

Re: why does the CRTC need this list?

[Archangel Michael]

Actually, give me one regulatory agency that has shrunk or disbanded itself when it was no longer needed. Off the top of your head. I'm sure one exists, but for the life of me, I can't think of one.

While not "proof" of expanding powers, it is something to contemplate.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

OMG - how many times is this going to be repeated.

CRTC did not ask for their subscriber lists. They asked for a total number of Canadian subscribers.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[mysidia]

Your point? ABC/NBC/Fox/etc are not Canadian companies, they still have to comply with CanCon rules within Canada. Netflix is operating under an exemption from those rules right now.

Netflix is not a broadcaster/Television company. They are a subscription internet service that streams video over the internet or ships DVDs for rental on demand.

As such, they do not need to license any spectrum or broadcast rights, as their transmissions are in private over the telecommunications network. And they are essentially an equivalent to an online "All You can Eat" DVD/Video rental shoppe.

Last I checked, video rental shoppes and other businesses besides broadcasters are not subject to regulation in regards to what their video library can carry.

There would be fundamental free speech rights violations in attempting to dictate what a store or information service should carry.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

> I suspect they just want to know how many customers they have, not specifically who they are.

Nonsense.

I am sure that Netflix is more than willing to BRAG about how many Canadian customers it has, or how many customers it has in ANY country.

Way different kettle of fish than actual subscriber info.

Watch the hearing, I posted the YouTube link above - they only asked for the total number of Canadian subscribers and Netflix considered that "sensitive" information and refused to give it.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Man On Pink Corner]

So much for the ideal of the borderless Internet. I guess it's more important to artificially prop up your own country's "content" purveyors, than to allow human culture as a whole to move forward unthreatened by the guns of government.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

Netflix agreed to pay the 2% VOD tax for their upcoming launch in France.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[wisnoskij]

I think the point is that they should provide x% of Canadian movies/tv shows and feature it in such a way that Canadian viewers are likely to watch it.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

The law deals with "signals which carry sound and images" - it's not technology specific. That's why, years ago, they introduced the "digital exemption" for internet based services to allow them to grow/keep entry barriers low for new services. That exemption is granted (or revoked) a the CRTC's discretion and that's what this set of hearings is for - to figure out whether to regulate, deregulate, or maintain the status quo on both traditional broadcasters and new media.

In Canada corporations are not people, they do not have free speech rights.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Attila Dimedici]

Um, you do know that if Canadians preferred Canadian music, there would be no need to force companies to play it.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Anonymous Coward]

The blank media levy isn't for victims of piracy; it makes it legal to copy music for private use in Canada.

Basically, Canadian recording companies constantly lobbied the government saying "People are copying our music. There's no other use for a blank cassette but to copy music. We want to be paid a little for all those blank cassettes, and then we'll make copying music legal." The Canadian government resisted for a while, but eventually caved in, and there was much rejoicing from the record execs.

And then a short while later Napster appeared on the scene, and suddenly all the record execs said "noooooooooo!" They suddenly started lobbying to remove their new bill. :P

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[CohibaVancouver]

In fact, it's probably zero percent.

Except when it comes to the filming locations (mostly filmed in Toronto and Vancouver) and the actors (mostly Canadians).

But other than that, yeah.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Nemyst]

Most people don't like the Conservatives. They only had 39% of the vote, after all, and with a heavy bias towards the Midwest.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[c]

Personally, I like the idea of that. It encourages and funds a lot of Canadian artists that might otherwise get swamped out of the market by monied American interests.

Personally, I would much, much, much rather the CRTC enforce rules for true network neutrality for Canadian internet users and find some other way to promote Canadian content.

Or, more accurately, for someone else to force the CRTC to go that way, because there's pretty much zero probability that they'll do it without coercion.

Re: why does the CRTC need this list?

[Anonymous Coward]

The "Somalia" reply is because too many people conflate libertarianism with anarchy.

Remember when Cons were saying "if you hate it here so much, why don't you leave?"
Now libs get to say it. "Move to somalia if you hate it here."
Feels good.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[debrain]

One of the many cases that now clarify this topic include Easthaven, Ltd. v. Nutrisystem.com Inc., 2001 CanLII 27992 (ON SC), http://canlii.ca/t/1vz4l retrieved on 2014-09-19, which states at para. 29 (where the 'person' is referring a company whose presence was based on Internet activity in Canada):

The court held that general jurisdiction could be found in such a case [with an Internet company] only if the person was domiciled in the jurisdiction or his activities there were "substantial" or "continuous and systematic".

Jurisdiction can also arise for specific subject matter, as in the case here involving Netflix and the CRTC, by certain statute or treaty (viz. the NAFTA provisions for cultural accommodations for media). Of course a Court in Canada could just assume jurisdiction and give a paper judgment - the question then becomes whether an American court would recognize the judgment through the process called comity. With extremely rare exceptions between Canada and the USA, the Courts will recognize the judgments reciprocally.

There is also nothing stopping the CRTC from bringing an action in the USA based on violations that occurred in Canada. The applicable law may be different from the law of the jurisdiction that addresses the allegations of wrongdoing (i.e. it may be Canadian law that applies, but heard by an American Court, or vice versa). In any case an operation being abroad is not a defence from wrongdoing - notwithstanding e.g. extraterritorial immunity arising from a treaty.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Dragonslicer]

Ignoring the desires of 40% of the population is a wee bit undemocratic, wouldn't you agree?

Uh, no, if the other 60% desired otherwise, ignoring the desires of 40% of the population would, by definition, be completely democratic. That's why we don't have true democracies.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Stoutlimb]

Because of population differences, Canadian content producers would have to be 10x more productive and competitive just to even the playing field. Anything less, and a deregulated culture would look no different than USA culture. This is just facts, and most Canadians want their own unique culture to remain strong, and this is the only way to do it. We're not another state in the union, we're our own unique culture. Of course people in the USA wouldn't find this worth fighting for.

If I may make an analogy that will surely be torn apart, this is like installing soundproofing and turning up the volume on the TV because the neighbour is a bar with concerts going on 24/7. It's our right.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[BringsApples]

Right. I wonder if google has to do the same thing, for youtube.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Darinbob]

There's not even American culture per se. Do you think people in Iowa watch shows from LA and NY and think "wow, that's American culture I can relate to!" What next, make sure you have shows produced in Vancouver get the same amount of air time as shows from Toronto and Montreal, so that Canadian culture isn't dominated by eastern cities?

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Stoutlimb]

Said the perpatrator of every genocide, ever.

Stoutlimb (a Canadian) says the goodness of every culture should be cherished, and those at risk of being unfairly erased due to circumstance need protecting. Part of Canadian culture is to protect our own against impossible odds. Our nation was founded on the premise of joint defence against encroachment from the south, and here we are 147 years later, still facing 10 to 1 odds. With your attitude, you won't remain Canadian for long.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Darinbob]

It's ok, I think we know a way to get the tattoos off.

Re: why does the CRTC need this list?

[Dragonslicer]

Actually, give me one regulatory agency that has shrunk or disbanded itself when it was no longer needed.

Your request contains an assumption that you have provided no reason to believe is true.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Darinbob]

Actually, I didn't even think Canadians could officially get Netflix. Though after a search it turns out there is a Netflix Canada, but a lot of Canadians use workarounds to get the American Netflix so that they can get more content.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[c-A-d]

When you consider that this is actually fairly typical of the returns in any Canadian federal election since the 1950s, then I can make the same claim of many Liberal governments as well, except for the bias towards Ontario in those cases. The west votes Conservative for some very good reasons (NEP and CWB for starters).

http://www.electionalmanac.com/ea/canada-popular-vote-results/

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[c-A-d]

Will it also fix that attitude of his?

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Stoutlimb]

You are incorrect on the Internet, so I must correct you.

Hits these days aren't discovered so much as made. CanCon must makes sure that some of the people making the hits are Canadian. It's just business, and Canadians have at least a 10/1 disadvantage, with the added pitfall that if these Canadian businesses fail, our culture gets completely swallowed up by USA megacorps. The truth is that USA can and will buy and sell Canada 10 times over without anyone south of the border even noticing. We as a country need to stand up and say that our culture is not for sale, or it will be gone.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[cascadingstylesheet]

because Netflix doesn't have a choice - by operating in Canada they must provide the information.

Or ... what, exactly? Mountie stormtroopers will come arrest them?

Or Canada shall taunt them a second time?

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[cascadingstylesheet]

Then why did they appear before the Commission at all? If they truly do not operate in Canada, then nothing the CRTC does affects them and they could blow off the whole thing with impunity.

Maybe they wanted to hear "the Commission" (caps? should I say it in an evil accent or something?) out. Maybe they wanted to make them look foolish. Who knows?

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[dk20]

Funny, the US is pretty big on this as well:

Lets try a few popular sites and see what we get:

----
Dear Pandora Visitor,

We are deeply, deeply sorry to say that due to licensing constraints, we can no longer allow access to Pandora for listeners located outside of the U.S., Australia and New Zealand.
------

Sorry, currently our video library can only be watched from within the United States
Hulu is committed to making its content available worldwide.

-------

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[mark-t]

Did I ever once suggest that I would Liberal? The conservatives might tend to be the lesser evil of the two, but we have more than two parties.

I vote with the party that most closely aligns to my own views... that doesn't necessarily mean I'll vote for the winning party (I can't remember the last election where I voted for the winning party actually), but I know in the end that it's the most I can do to give my own personal values a voice in Parliament, and an alternative view for them to consider when enough people in my voting district vote the same.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Herder Of Code]

That's a really cute argument but the fact of the matter is that if Canada were to decide to levy a fine agaisnt Netflix it would have to pay if they want to keep having canadian customers. It doesn't take much imagination to figure out all the ways in which we would screw with Netflix like making their service unavailable in Canada. Frankly, we wouldn't be missing much, we saw a mention of this on the news at a bar and everyone was like, oh well it wouldn't be a huge loss their Canadian service is kind of useless anyway.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Herder Of Code]

It's simple, Netflix made claims based on that data. The CRTC called them on it and said they wanted them to prove it with the raw data.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[mrchaotica]

"the Commission" (caps? should I say it in an evil accent or something?)

I was referring to it as a proper noun ("the [Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications] Commission"), not as a generic commission.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[LihTox]

And Netflix provides *different* content in Canada than it does in the US (or other countries, presumably). They might have a better argument if they provided an identical product to anyone in the world who signed up for it, but in this case their product is specifically for the Canadian market.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[funwithBSD]

Except this appears to be case of using regulatory power grab to do something that is probably not within the regulatory statute i.e. having to identify users. Does any other regulated service have to do so? cable? Broadcast?

Since they can't just order it via a judge or some other method apparently, they are trying to strong arm by threatening with an unrelated to the issue regulation they CAN control.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[funwithBSD]

if not, we will staple his eyes open and make him watch Hockey, Strange Brew, and drink Canadian beer until he can only say "Eh" and "Hoser".

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Man On Pink Corner]

Those are private licensing conditions, nothing to do with the government except insofar as basic copyright law is being cited.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

Except this appears to be case of using regulatory power grab to do something that is probably not within the regulatory statute i.e. having to identify users.

As stated in about half a dozen posts, the CRTC did not request user information - they requested the total number of Canadian subscribers. They do have the authority to request any non-personal information for the purpose of implementing their mandate.

Does any other regulated service have to do so? cable? Broadcast?

Yes, those and internet, and radio, and so on.

Since they can't just order it via a judge or some other method apparently, they are trying to strong arm by threatening with an unrelated to the issue regulation they CAN control.

No, they have the authority to make the order; it's part of the Broadcasting Act. They cannot order or even request a court disclose personal information, otherwise, if it has anything to do with TV/Movies/Radio/Internet/etc they have the power to gather information, regulate (or not), and take action against those who do not comply in order to meet the requirements of their mandate. They have very similar, one might argue even broader, powers than the FCC in the US.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[c-A-d]

Never said you were Liberal. I was just pointing out the stats. For me, the old Reform now CPC seems to hold closest to my views.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[c-A-d]

We should probably put in some episodes of "Due South" (which was a fantastic series. I'm gonna have to revist that in another 5-10 years.) and Trailer Park Boys.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[T-Bucket]

Wait, "You can't do that on television" was CANADIAN?!?!

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[silfen]

Anything less, and a deregulated culture would look no different than USA

You mean it would risk being innovative, interesting, diverse, and popular? Horrible, can't have that!

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[puto]

You actually listed Corey Haim.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[silfen]

This is a common misconception. You do not need to have a physical presence in a country anymore to be operating there. You need "significant ties"

"Significant ties" are irrelevant. What is relevant is whether Canada can enforce their judgments. They might be able to force Canadian ISPs to block Netflix or make it illegal for Canadian consumers to do business with Netflix. They can do nothing to Netflix itself.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Minwee]

Don't disrespect The Lost Boys.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Citizen of Earth]

So they get their "canadian content" that way.

Except that the simulcast material is *American* content. Its origin doesn't change just because it's been licensed by Canadian channels for broadcast in Canada. I haven't read the rules, but counting commercials as Can-Con would be pure lunacy. In fact, it would allow all Canadian channels to carry nothing but American content all of the time, defeating any pretense of Can-Con requirements actually existing.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[seanvaandering]

Although I agree with where your going.... a HELL of a lot of us "Canadian" Netflix users actually proxy to American Netflix servers. Even we don't like the Canadian content were supposed to watch.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Stoutlimb]

You don't get it... Canadian meda can be twice as innovative, interesting, diverse, and popular than USA media, but because of the population difference, it would still drown in a sea of mediocre USA programming without some sort of protection in place. This has nothing to do with quality, Canadians can kick ass at that, it's a simple numbers game. For every Canadian doing something awesome, there's at least 10 people in the USA doing something at least as good.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[silfen]

Your reasoning is idiotic. And your premise that throwing government money at artists is going to produce competitive programming or attract viewership is utter nonsense.

Take it from someone who grew up in a country that actually has a bigger and better public TV system and art funding than Canada: you are wasting your money.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[dk20]

I didnt say they were government mandated, just that the US does regional restrictions as well.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[geekmux]

They won't end up with any list - they didn't ask them for a subscriber list they asked them for the total number of subscribers. A very different thing.

Ah. I see they're out hunting for fresh taxpayers then.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Attila Dimedici]

I wouldn't know about "hits" as I rarely hear or see them (if a radio station plays "hits", I don't listen to it). I listen to the music I like and watch the movies I like, I have not liked a hit song in longer than I can remember. The last hit movie I liked was LOTR, and I was a fan of the books long before they were popular. I could go on, but the point is, if you want to have an independent culture you need to be willing to not be part of "pop" culture. If Canadians want to be part of "pop" culture, why should their government prevent them from doing so?
Apparently, you fail to understand that if the USA can buy and sell Canada, then this law is an exercise in futility because it has been bought by the USA. I could go on, but I will conclude by saying that government subsidies of culture fail to actually preserve said culture. If Canadians are not interested enough in preserving their own culture without a law forcing them to do so, that culture is doomed anyway.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

This was addressed in another post.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

That makes no sense what so ever. Netflix doesn't pay Canadian taxes and the CRTC is not responsible for taxes - that would be Revenue Canada.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[l0n3s0m3phr34k]

Too bad it won't work like they want. I love many shows from Canada...New Girl, Continuum, Trailer Park Boys (top 5 tv shows ever), ReGenesis, The Nature of Things, Doc Zone, etc. If CRTC actually showed a flow of money from regulations into various show productions and maybe make some marketing to show the public "Your $XYZ taxes help fund $A to Continuum, $B to Doc Zone" etc people might be far less upset.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[l0n3s0m3phr34k]

All US TV stations should just show marathons of Trailer Park Boys all night. It's one of the funniest shows EVER.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[pcb]

You must be an Albertan! I don't mean any disrespect, but Albertans need to stop beating that dead horse called the NEP. It was 35 bloody years ago! Were you even born? It may even be relevant for your comment, but it still drives me nuts. Every time I'm in Calgary, it takes no less than 5 minutes for someone to mention the NEP. Doesn't matter the topic, eventually the NEP is mention. WTF!

Sorry, just needed to vent....

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[dj245]

Netflix plays what their subscribers want to see

Then why do they have so many reality TV shows? Ugh.

Ah, the "Nobody could possibly like things I don't like, and so that is why there is a much bigger conspiracy going on" argument. Hilarious every time!

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[lsatenstein]

why does anyone other than netflix need to know who their customers are?

If your article is for sale in a foreign country, and I pay for it with local currency, I would like to know how many millions are leaking out of the economy. Perhaps VISA, MASTERCARD, and other payment systems should be obliged to report foreign purchase payments.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[lsatenstein]

Is Canada still taxing blank media

Youu mean the blank media levy? Yes.

Which is particularly ironic now that Bill C-11 passed in 2011 (despite otherwise unanimous objection to it by all other parties, the Conservative government, controlling slightly more than 50% of the seats in the House of Commons, was able to finally push it through, which they had been trying to do repeatedly since 2006, and were only able to do so once they had a majority government), and which happens to make it illegal to bypass or break any kind of technological protection measures on copyrighted works, even for personal use, and considering the increased reliance of such measures in an only ever-increasingly digital era, this bill makes the levy on blank media, which was supposed to exist to subsidize for private copying only by the way (not piracy, as some people believe), an extra expense that Canadians are paying for and practically don't even have the right to legally enjoy (although the government has said they will not enforce the bill in matters for strictly private use, it would still apparently be technically illegal).

Did I mention that I really hate the Canadian Conservative government? I sure as hell didn't vote for them.

My goodness, If the line for Conservative dislike is formed single file, it would stretch from Ocean to Ocean. Time for a new broom to do some clean sweeping.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[silfen]

Doesn't matter how you "addressed" it; the fact remains: your criterion of "significant ties" is nonsense. Jurisdiction only exists where governments can enforce that jurisdiction. Unless Netflix actually operates as a business in Canada or the Canadian government has some kind agreement with the US, Canada has no more jurisdiction over Netflix than Iran or North Korea do.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

You're an idiot if you think governments don't have mechanisms for dealing with companies outside of their physical territories. Especially Canada and the US.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[silfen]

You're right that the US has a lot of ways of pressuring foreign companies, but that's for the simple reason that the US is a big and desirable market. Saying "if you do X, you can't use US banks, you can't travel to the US, and you can never open a branch in the US" is pressure, but it doesn't establish jurisdiction.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

You're right that the US has a lot of ways of pressuring foreign companies, but that's for the simple reason that the US is a big and desirable market. Saying "if you do X, you can't use US banks, you can't travel to the US, and you can never open a branch in the US" is pressure, but it doesn't establish jurisdiction.

Not pressuring, taking legal action against. Try giving this a read: http://www.kelleydrye.com/imag... in particular paragraph 2 of page 8.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[silfen]

Try giving this a read: http://www.kelleydrye.com/imag... [kelleydrye.com] in particular paragraph 2 of page 8.

A US court may have jurisdiction over a Swiss citizen in some proceedings according to US laws, but it doesn't generally have jurisdiction over a Swiss citizen in Switzerland according to Swiss laws (unless established by a separate treaty). In order for the US court's judgment to be effective, it needs both kinds of jurisdiction.

Obviously, when talking about "the jurisdiction of Canada over Netflix", we are already assuming that the Canadian court has jurisdiction according to Canadian law (otherwise the discussion is moot), and we are talking about the ability of Canada to enforce its laws against Netflix Inc.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

Try giving this a read: http://www.kelleydrye.com/imag... [kelleydrye.com] in particular paragraph 2 of page 8.

Obviously, when talking about "the jurisdiction of Canada over Netflix", we are already assuming that the Canadian court has jurisdiction according to Canadian law (otherwise the discussion is moot), and we are talking about the ability of Canada to enforce its laws against Netflix Inc.

But previously you said

Jurisdiction only exists where governments can enforce that jurisdiction.

The document states that personal jurisdiction exists "... a court may exercise jurisdiction over a foreign company: First,if the company is regularly and continuously doing business in a state (even if it is not registered to do business there),it can usually be sued in that state’s courts and the federal courts located there,for a claim which arose anywhere in the world. Doing business may include systematically selling products into a state."

No "both kinds of jurisdiction" - just the one.

As to enforcement, aside from numerous treaties between Canada and the US where it could be enforced, international law also allows for it to a certain extent. Also, simply enforcing a judgement by preventing funds from leaving the country or extraditing those responsible are options. There are probably some I'm not even aware of.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[stoploss]

Our nation was founded on the premise of joint defence against encroachment from the south, and here we are 147 years later, still facing 10 to 1 odds. With your attitude, you won't remain Canadian for long.

Oh, trust us: we don't want any of your land or your citizenry. Hell, you can keep the tar sands and everything else. Yes, there was a risk a long time ago, but it's been over for, what, 150+ years now? First you beat us in the War of 1812 invasion, then we had some bellicose posturing about the undefined border by British Columbia, then... what? Are you seriously losing sleep over threats like the Maine timber war from about 200 years ago?

What some of us *would* like to do is to ship the segment of our population I call "closeted Canadians" up to you. They would fit right in, help you with that ratio you're unnecessarily concerned about, and would agree with your cultural perspectives on removing firearm rights, socialism, taxation levels, etc. We would welcome any "closeted Americans" you would like to ship to us.

-stoploss, American

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[MitchDev]

That's up to the users of Netflix to report.

The most Canaduh needs is a total number, they don't need names, etc...

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Obfuscant]

That's up to the users of Netflix to report.

You must be nuts. You think the Canadian government should be asking everyone in the country if they are Netflix subscribers? Or that Netflix subscribers should have to register with the government? Don't be looney.

It's the job of the company paying the corporate income taxes to justify the amount of payment, not the job of every customer of that company.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[MitchDev]

Not Netflix job to justify anything to Canada if they don't have an office there.

Again, the most Canaduh needs is raw numbers, not subscriber data.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Zxern]

Great!. So when do you plan to implement the great firewall of china?

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[JMJimmy]

Canadians are smarter than trying to play whack-a-mole. We just go after the money.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[Stoutlimb]

I'm not suggesting throwing money at the problem.

The point is that Canada is being put to a very awkward choice: Allow our culture to be overwhelmed and abosorbed into the United States, or limit the free speech rights of corporations that throw scads of US content at Canadians for profit.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[silfen]

The point is that Canada is being put to a very awkward choice: Allow our culture to be overwhelmed and abosorbed into the United States, or limit the free speech rights of corporations that throw scads of US content at Canadians for profit.

Your premise is false: there is no choice. You cannot create a culture or maintain it through these kinds of government programs, you actually kill it that way. People are going to watch what they like no matter what you do, and crony capitalism for culture has the same effect as crony capitalism for anything else: it makes the "product" (culture) worse.

Re:why does the CRTC need this list?

[sg_oneill]

Same cable companies (I'm looking at YOU foxtel) that convinced the incoming australian conservative government to cancell the national fibre optic broadband network half way thru construction because it'd compete with cable TV.

These people are seriously harmful to democracy.

I might've sided with Netflix...

[Anonymous Coward]

except the number of shows available in Canada is terrible! License some decent programming to make the subscription actually worthwhile!

Re:I might've sided with Netflix...

[JMJimmy]

You mean you actually don't use your Canadian sub to access the US system?

Re:I might've sided with Netflix...

[what2123]

Such bullshit. I read all the time that they are just using simple proxies to get the US content and Netflix themselves aren't discouraging the use. If there is any crackdown it's from the CA telecoms and possible the CRTC since they are in bed with the big three there.

Re:I might've sided with Netflix...

[Your.Master]

He didn't specify who the "they" were. I assume that he didn't really know and wasn't guessing that it was any particular entity. You seem to assume he was talking about Netflix, which I think is unwarranted.

Re:I might've sided with Netflix...

[JMJimmy]

They are "cracking down" on it by using a 3rd party to identify/block IPs - but it's so simple to bypass, even after being blocked that just about anyone can do it.

Easier way to get the list...

[QuietLagoon]

Institute a low cap on monthly data consumption, then watch who hits the cap.

Re:Easier way to get the list...

[JMJimmy]

Not if you go with a company like Teksavvy or Start - aside from offering unlimited data plans, they also offer 300gb plans where uploads are not counted and 2am-8am is not counted. Teksavvy even has a "Zap the Cap" program where you can get a cheaper capped plan and still get unlimited data by allowing speeds to be slowed from 8pm to midnight. It's opt in, and you can opt-out any time.

Re:Easier way to get the list...

[c-A-d]

They tried this a few years back out east. Needless to say, they kinda had to back off due to the backlash. I'm sure they'll try again though.

BLAME CANADA!!!

[ganjadude]

BLAME CANADA!!! BLAME CANADA!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Why does the US need this list?

[Etherwalk]

FTA: "(conversely, U.S. regulators can provide guarantees of confidentiality)"

WHY does ANYONE other than Netflix need to know who the subscribers are or what they watch?

Re:Why does the US need this list?

[gnupun]

If this type of info gathering is common from governments and commercial agencies, we need a more anonymous Internet.

Re:Why does the US need this list?

[JMJimmy]

FTA: "(conversely, U.S. regulators can provide guarantees of confidentiality)"

WHY does ANYONE other than Netflix need to know who the subscribers are or what they watch?

CRTC didn't ask for that information

What they did ask for was:

a) Total number of subscribers
b) Anonymous data on total views of content found in the "Canadian" genre that Netflix maintains
c) How PIPEDA was being complied with, especially given the way the Netflix recommendation algorithms work
d) How much they were investing in Canadian produced content

Re:Uh

[JMJimmy]

Canada is their 2nd most successful market.

Fuck Canadian content welfare system

[future assassin]

I could care less to support Canadian made content that I could care less to watch. Funny how this pops up just when Shaw and Rogers are releasing their version of Netflix. Netflix should just pull out but allow people to buy and look the other way. I`d rather pay for a VPN to access than to let the gov clamp down on emerging technology and markets.

Re:Fuck Canadian content welfare system

[apraetor]

Netflix can't do as you suggest, because they want to continue operating in the US. Positive verification of the billing zip code is required; Netflix didn't implement that on a whim, they do it because the rights-holders require such checks. The TV and film industries like to control the availability of their properties at a national level, and since all the most desirably content comes from a small few corporations Netflix has to be careful not to offend.

Re:Fuck Canadian content welfare system

[future assassin]

Singing up for Hulu worked fine for me using a US zip code and my Canadian cc. Although I don`t have Hulu anymore I used it for a VPN for over a year.

Re:Fuck Canadian content welfare system

[JohnSearle]

Not that I necessarily agree with regulating content on Netflix; but there is a connection between media and opinions around ideologies, national unity, political awareness, amongst other topics. Being overwhelmed with cheap American content doesn't assist in educating Canadians about Canadian values and awarenesses. This is even more problematic when the viewers are still learning / developing their value systems (e.g. children).

I recall seeing some statistic that showed that an increasing number Canadians were more aware of the American political system then there own... a sad state of affairs that is due to an overwhelming amount of American media presence. It is this type of situation is what the CRTC is attempting to mitigate through regulation.

Re:Fuck Canadian content welfare system

[Anonymous Coward]

Without Canadian content rules, there would be no Canadian contents. US content is much cheaper than making something new. Always has been.

I for one, prefer Canadian content to most of the crap on US TV. Terrible shows like 24 or some similar cop or hospital drama crap. Murdoch Mysteries or Mantracker or even Lexx (over a decade old now) or Stargate SG-1 - all Canadian content.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...

Sorry, but some of the best shows over the years are "Canadian contents" and would not have happened if there wasn't some money to at least start them.

Want to see more? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...

Heck, there probably would not be much NHL on TV either if it wasn't Canadian Content either.

Re:Fuck Canadian content welfare system

[dskoll]

If you want Canadians to watch Canadian content, then... make content that Canadians want to watch. It's that simple.

I watch a few excellent Canadian shows (for example, TV Ontario's The Agenda). But most TV shows produced in Canada are crap. They're no better than the cheap American shlock.

Re:Fuck Canadian content welfare system

[edawstwin]

Being overwhelmed with cheap American content doesn't assist in educating Canadians about Canadian values and awarenesses.

Why should this even remotely matter? It is not a government's job to educate its citizens about values that it wants to promote. In fact, that's an extraordinarily bad idea.

Re:Fuck Canadian content welfare system

[c-A-d]

>The most telling artefact of CanCon is still the radio though, try listening to a rock station for more than a day in a row without hearing at least one Rush, Guess Who or Nickelback (ugh) track. I don't mind some of it but you can tell when it's Canadian percentile block time and you'll want to shoot yourself in the face with a 22

Crap like that is the reason I don't listen to domestic music radio. Ever. Period. I listen to the local news/traffic station and the rest of the time, it's satellite radio.

As for the 22, I'll need to see your firearms permit before you discharge that firearm.

Re:Fuck Canadian content welfare system

[andydread]

its couldn't care less. Could care less means you care. Couldn't care less means you cannot care any less than you do now. geez.

Re:Fuck Canadian content welfare system

[jader3rd]

It is not a government's job to educate its citizens about values that it wants to promote.

I can see that being a good thing. Citizens with experience have a better chance at knowing which values are sustainable and those which are self destructive feel that it's worthwhile to find multiple ways to inform the populace of that experience. So if they want to government to do that they can. But if the idea is to create entertainment to educate the citizens, that entertainment needs to compete with existing entertainment.

Re:Fuck Canadian content welfare system

[silfen]

educating Canadians about Canadian values and awarenesses.

And by that, you mean instill nationalism, jingoism, and anti-Americanism?

Defund the CRTC. Problem solved.

[aristotle-dude]

Fire the entire entity and create a new one that is responsive to taxpayer needs and concerns instead of big companies.

Re:Let's Regulate Canada

[ustolemyname]

Those limits were imposed by modifications to the copyright act 2 years ago. What was there excuse before then?

Hahaha

[man_ls]

Netflix should have laughed in their faces and told them that if they want to stop Canadians from subscribing, they'd need to get every ISP and VPN provider in the country to block access to it, then continued on happily taking credit card payments and sending traffic to Canada.

It's not Netflix fault that Canada doesn't produce any noteworthy cultural exports. Lots of other good stuff, sure, but TV and movies not so much.

Re:Hahaha

[blueshift_1]

While this is pretty acurate, Continuum was pretty good.

Re:Hahaha

[vux984]

they'd need to get every ISP and VPN provider in the country to block access to it,

You make that sound hard.

If they block it from about 5 companies that'll cover most of the countries reasonable choices, and most of the remainder are just resellers of bandwidth from the big ones.

And blocking VPN providers? Why bother? Only a small fraction will bother using one. Just because people -can- get around it, doesn't mean most of them will bother trying.

Meanwhile the cable and dsl providers would probably jump for joy at at a government ordered netflix ban. It eliminates a significant competitor, and a huge source of bandwidth usage all in one fell swoop, and if anyone complains its the governments fault.

So no, your full of it, if you think netflix can just 'laugh in their faces'. It would be pretty easy for Canada to toss them out if they wanted to. Blocking access at the cross-border links, and seizing any netflix equipment in the country. I'm not in favor of any such draconian action, don't for a second think it isn't both possible and easy.

then continued on happily taking credit card payments and sending traffic to Canada.

Given they have to license content separately specifically to send it to Canada this would not make the slightest bit of sense. The ONLY content they can turn a 'blind eye' to, would be Canadian's paying from a US address/US card and funnelling traffic through a VPN. And they can only do THAT as long as its not a big enough issue to get them in trouble with the rights owners -- who will start demanding netflix blacklist VPN providers etc.

It's not Netflix fault that Canada doesn't produce any noteworthy cultural exports. Lots of other good stuff, sure, but TV and movies not so much.

Two words: "Hollywoord North" I mean seriously, Canada may not produce much worthwhile truly independent content but its been very successful at using Canadian content requirements coupled with tax incentives to create a pretty substantial tv/movie production industry where one would otherwise not exist, creating jobs, and funneling some money into Canada in the process.

How uncanadian

[blueshift_1]

I guess they might be concerned about international users viewing Canadian content - though seems unlikely.

Otherwise, I just see it as a government body trying to throw its weight around... however that just seems quite un-canadian though.

Welp...

[Mashiki]

Sounds like I need to contact my MP, last time the CRTC pulled this shit with UBB it took the federal government threatening to pull their mandate for them to smarten up. Fellow canucks can contact their MP via this list here. Sounds like they need to be threatened again, and if they decide to piss on us--I'll get a VPN and get the US netflix. And if they make it illegal like US satellite dishes, people will say fuck you anyway.

There's a reason why the cableco's up here are hemorrhaging subscribers.

They will support Canadian content worthwhile...

[Chubby_C]

Trailer Park Boys for example now only available on Netflix due to Netflix financing seasons 8 and 9 (plus however many more).

What other Canadian shows would be worth brining back as Netflix exclusives?

Easy solution...

[Em Adespoton]

I've got a solution that will make everyone happy:
Have NetFlix partner with the NFB to distribute NFB content... globally. Nothing like providing global access to Canadian content. NetFlix could even provide it for free to everyone in Canada with an account but no current subscription. Under this setup, the CRTC wouldn't have a leg to stand on, as at that point, they will get their Canadian Content on NetFlix (not sure about the French/English ratio though).

HOWEVER

I'm pretty sure this really has nothing to do with NetFlix and EVERYTHING to do with the new consortium raising a Canadian NetFlix "competitor" (Shomi) whispering nasty things in the CRTC's ear. Yes, blame Rogers/Shaw for this fracas, as they're likely where the blame really lies.

Re:Easy solution...

[future assassin]

NFG has some cool stuff. BEST is https://www.nfb.ca/film/juke_b...

Re:Let's Regulate Canada

[damien_kane]

Those limits were imposed by modifications to the copyright act 2 years ago. What was there excuse before then?

Most US companies (particularly the major networks) have distribution deals in Canada (i.e. Canadian broadcasters pay the networks to air the US content, but with their own Canadian ads)
If US networks started airing their shows online and allowed Canadians to watch on their .com (instead of through their cable-company; with US Networks getting the ad $$$ and not Rogers/Bell), then those companies in Canada would sue the US networks for loss of revenue and breach of contract.

Stop bitching....

[Bomarc]

Someone should tell the Canadian regulator he (they) got Burger King.

Re:They will support Canadian content worthwhile..

[future assassin]

You Can`t Do That on Television
War Of The Worlds
Live It Up
My Secret Identity
Beach Combers
Earth Final Conflict
First Wave
Friday the 13th: The Series
The Friendly Giant
Jonovision could lead into Trailer Park Vision
Just For Laughs
Kevin Spencer even my kids were like WTF?

There`s lots but not that many vs the shiat ones.

CRTC needs to be reined in

[dskoll]

The CRTC is nuts. The only things the CRTC should regulate are telecommunication tariffs, bandwidth allocation, telemarketing abuse and wireless interference. Trying to "protect" Canadian content is ridiculous in 2014. Either our Canadian content is good and will find a Canadian and international audience, or it's crap and the content producers will deservedly go out of business.

There's no place any more for cultural protectionism.

Re:CRTC needs to be reined in

[vux984]

There's no place any more for cultural protectionism.

Canadian content laws combined with tax incentives are what created and sustains hollywood north, a significant film and TV production industry within Canada that would otherwise not exist, that generates jobs and incomes in Canada.

Kill the laws, and you kill an industry. How does Canada win that way exactly?

Protecting Canadian content is far more than just protecting Canadian "culture", its a very real protection of a whole industry that pretty clearly and objectively benefits the country overall.

Re:CRTC needs to be reined in

[dskoll]

Killing a non-competitive industry causes short-term pain. But in the long-term, a more competitive and stronger industry will emerge.

Just as the US and Canada should never have rescued the auto-makers when they imploded, there's no way a government should use taxes or protectionist laws to protect non-competitive industries.

Re:CRTC needs to be reined in

[c-A-d]

They could roll the CRTC stuff into Industry Canada, ditch the political crap, and everyone would be happier. And I suspect more would get done.

Re:CRTC needs to be reined in

[vux984]

Killing a non-competitive industry

What's non-competitive about it? You think other tax jurisdictions aren't playing the same game?

But in the long-term, a more competitive and stronger industry will emerge.

Or it will nestle somewhere else where it can squeeze the local government for some concessions. I'd rather the jobs be in Canada than elsewhere. The candian content regulations provide some unique leverage over the industry. The tax breaks are the carrot... and the canadian content regulations (that they qualify under if its produced significantly within canada) is the stick.

Just as the US and Canada should never have rescued the auto-makers when they imploded

I agree they handled it pretty poorly, but letting it collapse would have been stupid too. The country would not be better if all those jobs, and supply chains, and the service industries supported by that industry had all collapsed like a string of dominoes. Sure the market would have corrected itself and sorted itself out after a 'great depression', but millions of people still have to eat in the meantime. That's a huge drain on the economy, and an incubator for crime and even real civil unrest. Far better to prop up the industry up with bridge financing then to put them all on various welfare programs.

They handled it poorly though. Those who were responsible for manufacturing the crisis should have been reduced to poverty.

Re:Uh

[dskoll]

Actually, this federal government is more likely than the Liberals and way more likely than the NDP to restrain the CRTC. So if you are not happy with the CRTC, giving Harper the boot is not going to help. (Not that I'm a Harper fan, particularly, but on this issue his party is probably closer to the consumers' position than the other parties.)

Canadian market is too small for real pressure

[SleepyHappyDoc]

If Netflix really feels pressured, they will simply leave Canada. I suspect their Canadian revenues make up a pretty small piece of their pie. Thanks, CRTC.

Re:Canadian market is too small for real pressure

[dskoll]

The population of Canada is roughly the same as the population of California. I can't see any company willingly ceding such a market.

Yet Another Worthless Summary

[meustrus]

Netflix appeared before the Canadian broadcast regulator today, resulting in a remarkably heated exchange, with threats of new regulation. Blah blah blah, confidential data that CRTC may or may not have right to see but we won't tell you, blah blah blah, redundant stuff, blah blah, no more information, blah blah blah, click the link if you actually want to know what the fuck we're talking about, blah blah blah...

It's pretty much impossible to expect a reasonable discussion on Slashdot when the summary is such redundant tripe. After all, nobody around here RTFA. So all we have is basically, "Netflix and CRTC had a fight about something". I'm not Canadian, I don't know anything about the CRTC or why it has any regulatory authority over Netflix, or what these ominous-sounding "regulations" might be. And I doubt every Canadian could answer those questions either.

Although considering the article itself, maybe that's actually the best the summary could do. I learned more than the article had to say just by scrolling through the existing Slashdot comments to see if anybody else had already made the comment I'm making. These being Slashdot comments, however, I'm a little scared about the value of that information.

They Do Not.

[CrashNBrn]

Global, CBC, ATV, CTV, etc have to to comply. The stations that rebroadcast or simulcast American Television content.

Re:They Do Not.

[JMJimmy]

Global, CBC, ATV, CTV, etc have to to comply. The stations that rebroadcast or simulcast American Television content.

I believe you are mistaken. The act makes no exceptions for rebroadcasts or simulcast (do you mean simultaneous substitution?). The 55% rule applies or if they are exempt from that rule for being a "remote station" the 50% rule applies. A station that rebroadcasts doesn't have to meet the requirements only in that the station which they are rebroadcasting must be licensed and compliant. ie: when they want to go after someone for not complying they go after the originator not the rebroadcaster.

Re:They Do Not.

[CrashNBrn]

The ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, and PBS stations that are provided via Cable may or may not have "some" Canadian content. Most-likely not. They are not local stations. Your local cable company has made a deal with an American affiliate to carry that channel. Except for when Global, ATV, CTV, ASN, or CBC simulcasts a show the Ads aren't even changed from what that American affiliate airs.
I lived in Canada for 39 years, the only "Canadian-Content" I ever saw on American television Networks was the odd time they would cover a Canadian news story. Less than a half-dozen of the countless Canadian television shows ever made it to the US. More than likely as America always does, they would take scripts/ideas and redo the whole thing instead of airing the original.

Re:Easy fix

[future assassin]

I'd shoot to kill any American that tried to take a piece of Canada and I think Canadian made content holding back things is rediculious. I can make my own idea what is it to be Canadian, I don't need a to show to guide me.

the CRTC maximizes Canadian culture

[swschrad]

so it's time for Canadian Corner (aka The Great White North) 24x7x365 now, eh. ya hosers.

I guess by now they could run Mike Holmes and Love It or List It on the second channel, too.

if they want educational TV, put a camera outside Churchill, and the kids can guess which tourists will get eaten by polar bears. math, least-path theory, lots of fine educational opportunities.

Stronger government -- weaker citizens

[mi]

The CRTC implicitly threatened to regulate the company by taking away its ability to rely on the new media exception if it did not cooperate with its orders.

Statists rejoice...

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have."

— Thomas Jefferson

Voluntary vs compulsary.

[Lord Kano]

Netflix should seriously consider abandoning Canada. Or even, just take a week off and refund all of their customers 1/4 of their monthly payment.

People will call their elected representatives if they lose access to something they want.

LK

But they are already pushing Canadian content ...

[RaccoonBandit]

I lived in Canada for a year and kept my netflix subscription at the time. The content there was definitely different, and somewhere near the top of lists of suggestions has always been the category of Canadian shows (of all genres bunched together). So they are promoting Canadian content in Canada, as far as their model of allowing the viewer to freely pick what they want to watch allows. In fact, that's no different from having a certain amount of Canadian shows on a cable channel, where the viewer can just turn off the TV at the right times to avoid all the Canadian content, except it's much more convenient.

Two questions

[WillAffleckUW]

1. Did Netflix think it could get away without offering 1/3 Canadian content in Canada in both English and French?

2. Why do they need subscriber data (unless it proves Netflix isn't addressing 1)?

It's Canada. You don't want to deal with Canadian regulators, don't do business in Canada, it's that simple (and, yes, I do have a degree in business in Canada and have run businesses and worked for them there).

Re:Uh

[JMJimmy]

Yeah, and being 2nd, they account for less than 5% of their total subscriber base.

True, but if that's accurate that means they have 13% penetration in the Canadian market and only 12% in the US.

Re:Let's Regulate Canada

[ustolemyname]

Actually, I'm Canadian.

My point was that regional blocking of Canadians by .com's predated the updated copyright legislation, they are entirely separate issues. damien_kane below provides a nice explanation why.

As an aside, the updates to the Copyright Act were to satisfy obligations to WIPO treaties more than a decade old. And it beat the hell out of C-60 that the liberals proposed in 2005, which was just "Let's add the bad parts of the DMCA to Canadian copyright law and call it a day." (Don't get me wrong, if I had my druthers I would have put Charlie Angus (NDP) in charge of this bill, but that's not going to happen any time soon. Lazy youth voters, grr).

Speaking as a Canadian,

[jenningsthecat]

I am truly ashamed right now. I'm pissed off too, at the Canadian government and bureaucracy that are increasingly taking their cues, and sometimes even their orders, from our Big Brother south of the border.

My country used to be better than this.

Re:Uh

[c-A-d]

For what it's worth, losing the Canadian market would be roughly the equivalent to losing the California market for them as far as population goes. From a regulatory perspective, it'd be even easier.

Meh.

[Ralph Spoilsport]

No one in Canada with any sense watches netflix.ca. Everyone runs a proxy and watches netflix.com, because the selection on netflix.ca blows chunks.

The real reason behind this...

[gtworld2001]

This silliness can be explained by the streaming service offered by Shaw/Rogers. That's what is really behind this CRTC furor in a teapot. Perhaps S/R want to know who is watching Netflix now so they can make them an offer they can refuse...and most will. The new service 'Shomi' is dead in the water before it even is launched. Roger's hoped that by buying hockey they could make everyone go back to cable. That's not going to happen either.

IP Addresses

[DarthVain]

They do not need customer information to asses Canadian content, they need only to look at their licencing list. They probably already meet the requirements, or could meet it pretty easily, I doubt licencing a bunch of Canadian content would be all that expensive. I suspect it is more about how well Netflix enforces the Canada VS US access. That is how many subscribers that have a Canadian billing address and credit card information that happen to be connecting to Netflix using a US IP address which is a very easy thing to do, and Netflix doesn't really try to stop it all that hard really, probably because it isn't really in their best interests to do so. I would say a good chuck of Canadian customers have used the US version of Netflix on more than one occasion because certain content is only available on the US version and not on the Canadian one. You can enforce all the Canadian Content rules you like, but if everyone just connects to the US version it isn't going to make a lick of difference.

That is of course if this whole debate really has anything to do with Canadian content, and not about the CRTC being a shill for the Canadian telecommunications industry which are launching their own competition for Netflix...