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Your Incompetent Boss Is Making You Unhappy

HnT writes A new working paper shows strong support for what many have always suspected: your boss's technical competence is the single strongest predictor of workers' well-being, way ahead of other factors such as education, earnings, job tenure and public vs. private sector. On top of other studies which have already demonstrated that happy workers are more productive workers (e.g. this 2012 paper.), it does make you wonder how long organizations can afford to continue promoting incompetent bosses in today's very dynamic and competitive business world.

125 of 204 comments (clear)

  1. Duh by darkain · · Score: 4, Funny

    NO SHIT. We needed a paper to tell us what we already knew? Damn, why didn't I write that paper... Here goes.

    "INCOMPETENT BOSSES ARE THE LEADING CAUSE OF CAPSLOCK RAGE ON THE INTERNET"

    1. Re:Duh by ArcadeMan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We need a paper to tell our bosses what we already knew.

    2. Re:Duh by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Funny

      We've received your concerns, and our reply will be arriving on a pink slip shortly.

    3. Re:Duh by ArcadeMan · · Score: 5, Funny

      Joke's on you, I'm self-employed! That means I'm my own stupid boss!

      Oh wait.

    4. Re:Duh by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Funny

      If you are dead, you don't know you are dead but all the people you know are effected from your death.

      The same is true with Stupidity.
      Your Incompetent boss doesn't know that he is incompetent, yet we all suffer from this.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    5. Re:Duh by darkain · · Score: 4, Informative

      Since I was able to get off a wise ass crack joke for a first post, let me follow it up with something actually insightful for you other readers out there.

      What makes a "good" or "bad" boss anyways? Well, this article is one that I've always lived by, and it explains things quite well for both us techies and for those who are not of the tech mindset and skill set.

      http://www.computerworld.com/a...

    6. Re:Duh by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      Hey, if they PAY me enough I can withstand almost anything, bad boss or not.

      If it weren't for needing to earn money, I'd NOT be working at all, I have plenty I'd rather be doing if independently wealthy.

      The only reason to work is money. Paying me enough to suffer it from whatever the source (boss, co-workers, the work itself) is the only thing I'm really interested in.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    7. Re:Duh by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Wow, +1 for the elegant analogy. You could extend that, and note that the incompetent boss is dead from the neck up.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    8. Re:Duh by ediron2 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Hadn't seen, read big chunks thru carefully and scanned the rest. Looks like it has potential to stand alongside the old bell labs star performers study/doc. Thank you 1e6.

    9. Re:Duh by s.petry · · Score: 1

      Thank goodness you are posting anonymously, he will never be able to figure that one out!

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    10. Re:Duh by kevingolding2001 · · Score: 1

      ... I can withstand... ... to suffer it...

      I don't either of these phrases equate to 'being happy', which is what TFA was actually referring to.

      But yeah, most of us keep showing up anyway because we need the money.

    11. Re:Duh by s.petry · · Score: 1

      You are one of those idiots that can not decipher the meaning of "do not expect", and confuse it with "refusal". They are not synonymous.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  2. No shit, by Sneeka2 · · Score: 1

    Sherlock.

    This needed studying?

    --
    Bitten Apples are still better than dirty Windows...
    1. Re:No shit, by Tom · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, it did. Because quite regularly, those things that "everybody knows" turn out to be not actually true.

      We as humans are amazing at spotting some things and judging them correctly immediately. It's a survival trait, which is why it's so highly developed.

      But it goes wrong in many cases, especially in those where false positives are harmless but false negatives deadly.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    2. Re:No shit, by oodaloop · · Score: 1

      Sometimes studies find things that defy our intuitions, no matter how strong. So yes, even things you are certain of should be checked. What's the harm in verifying something you "knew"?

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    3. Re:No shit, by oodaloop · · Score: 1

      Well said. The first snarky remark I thought of was, there's a reason the word counter-intuitive exists.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    4. Re:No shit, by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      You underestimate management's inability to look critically at itself as the cause of employee unhappiness. The workers damn well know it. This report is simply to clue in management.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    5. Re:No shit, by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Not just the knowing, but how important it is for productivity.

      Send this to your HR person.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    6. Re:No shit, by iamgnat · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Studying why people are unhappy in their jobs is worthwhile so that people can learn how to find jobs that they are happier in as happier workers tend to be more productive.

      I'm not sure I agree with the conclusion though. Personally I find that my best managers were the ones that had little or no technical ability in the realm of what their staff did. They also happened to be the ones that actually understood the role of a manager and managed the team/projects on the whole rather than trying to get into the details. All the "knowledgeable" managers I've had fall into two equally bad (to me) categories. The first really doesn't know as much as they think and make life more difficult by injecting bad or wrong information into the process which (at best) drags things out or (at worst) makes the whole team look like a bunch of idiots that can't get their stories straight. The other group is those that actually do know their stuff, but they fall back to just doing it themselves rather than managing their team to get things done.

      The real key is that the staff has to trust the manager to stay out of the low level details and the manager has to trust his staff to actually be competent at their jobs (and if not, do something proactive about it). Without the trust and everyone sticking to their actual role it all falls apart and people are miserable.

    7. Re:No shit, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And indeed, recent studies indicate "counter-intuitive" is two words.

    8. Re:No shit, by skids · · Score: 1

      Yes, it did. Because quite regularly, those things that "everybody knows" turn out to be not actually true.

      This is evident since people seem to "just know" things that are easily disprovable, not just hard to prove subject matter that requires a research paper.

      A google of phrases like "most people think" can make for some fun afternoon reading.

    9. Re:No shit, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That depends. If you are knowledgeable, you don't ask your staff to do stupid shit. That means their work feels more productive.

      However, I agree that managers who know how to manage, as opposed to simply being taskmasters or senior technologists, is a desirable position to fill. That means your managers do things like take your training seriously, and work to provide reviews that actually help you be successful instead of copy pasting comments for each person or just providing a rating. They also know how to manage your time and tasks, and they keep upper management and their managerial peers off their team's ass by managing expectations. Priorities are set which align with the real goals of the company.

      I'm a technical manager in a small company, which means I have to do the work as well as manage. I can tell you that managing well requires a set of tasks completely aside from tech work that needs to be taken seriously. You are not supposed to simply be the Alpha Coder (or Admin or whatever). I know too many of my peers who act that way and are well hated.

    10. Re:No shit, by nine-times · · Score: 2

      quite regularly, those things that "everybody knows" turn out to be not actually true.

      Yes, and this is why we bother to study things. If you could go back in time a few hundred years, you'd find that already "everybody knows" how the world works, more or less, and they'd be wrong about a lot of it.

      In fact, I don't even think this is necessarily what I'd expect. Yes, of course your boss's competence would have some relationship with your job satisfaction, but this goes much farther: "your boss's technical competence is the single strongest predictor of workers' well-being"

      That's quite a statement. I haven't read the whole thing yet, but I'm not sure I buy it. There are multiple things about this statement that give me pause. For one thing, there's the issue of it being a predictor for your total well-being, and not just job satisfaction. I can see how that could be, since our jobs are such a huge part of most of our lives, but it's still a bit surprising. Second, that it's the strongest predictor, which means that if you search through all kinds of things in a person's life-- marriage, family, education level, wealth, body fat percentage, serotonin levels-- you can best predict a person's total well-being by looking at their boss. That's quite a claim. Finally, it stands out that they're indicating the problem is "technical" competence. I'm not even sure what that means, but I suspect the implication is something like, "General competence as a worker or a manager aren't an indicator. It's an issue of technical competence in your particular field."

      Further, one of my immediate questions when reading this was, "Is it that having an incompetent boss makes you unhappy, or that being unhappy makes you more likely to rate your boss as incompetent?" I read enough of the paper to see that they anticipated this and attempted to rule out the latter possibility.

    11. Re:No shit, by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      Counter-intuitively, the phrase comes from an analysis of lunch counters i the 50's.

    12. Re:No shit, by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

      But it goes wrong in many cases, especially in those where false positives are harmless but false negatives deadly.

      Correction: false positives are mostly harmless.

    13. Re:No shit, by deadweight · · Score: 1

      Here is the deal. My techniclly marginal-at-best bosses CANNOT sort out competing ideas. Everything turns into a 3rd grade popularity contest with bonus points to anyone who can "cloud" or "virtulize". The bosses are not sure what it means, but they know they like it.

    14. Re:No shit, by nine-times · · Score: 2

      Believe me, I understand the problem, but I would suggest that the problem might not be quite where you think it is.

      For example, someone who is a competent manager might have developed a process for sorting out issues that are beyond their technical expertise. They might choose someone from among the techies to serve as an adviser, or choose a technical lead who is capable of making those decisions, and delegating those decisions outright. They could round up the senior techs and have them vote on it.

      Or honestly, they could ask you to present your arguments, and judge based on the information that they can gather from people who understand it better. I've had plenty of bosses do this pretty successfully. They see that there's a technical disagreement, and they ask each side to explain what the consequences are. When you reframe the question from, "Which technical decision is better?" to "What are the consequences to our business of one technical decision vs. another?" then you don't need to be a technical genius to make the decision. You just need to understand your business needs.

      And if it turns into a popularity contest, then that's a failure of management, and not technical incompetence.

    15. Re:No shit, by Tom · · Score: 1

      It's really simple:

      All managers have to make decisions based on limited information. They have neither the time nor luxury of weighing all data. It's their business to make a decision when the decision needs to be made, not when all data analysis has been finished.

      Good manager know what to look for and what to discard. That may include the expertise of their people, but every case is different and just because one manager they admire once went against the expertise of the experts he employs and was right doesn't mean doing so is always a good idea. Good managers know when to listen and when to smile and ignore you.

      Bad managers don't really understand what they're doing and are either winging it, or run the show by some mostly bullshit management principles. They listen always or never, they include too much and/or the wrong information in their decision-making, and they make the wrong decisions and then find someone to blame for it.

      The important expertise of a manager is not technical. It's how to make decisions. Technical knowledge helps, but it's not the whole story.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  3. It does make you wonder ... by PPH · · Score: 1

    how long organizations can afford to continue promoting incompetent bosses ....

    Depends on how many idiot son-in-laws you have working there.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:It does make you wonder ... by TWX · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately many companies can stand to have a layer of incompentency between those that make decisions and those that actually do work. One can even argue that when the workers actually know what they're doing and are actually working toward a goal, most of Management's job should be to keep obstacles out of their way, to anticipate the needs of the project, and to handle the company-external communications and initial deal-making. While it's true that some companies do make their earnings using entry-level workers or are structured to be profitable even with incompetent workers making up sizable portions of their ranks (Walmart, Fry's Electronics, and just about all fast-food come to mind), that should not hold true for companies that employ primarily skilled workers.

      It's really aggrevating when skilled workers are both treated as if they're unskilled workers, and when they're managed by a former unskilled worker that somehow managed to get promoted up to lower-level management. Those kinds of managers tend to push everyone down to the lowest level, and to treat the skills of the talented workers as if they are unimportant. Ironically though, even good workers can often make for terrible managers, as often they cannot accept someone working in a different way than they did/do.

      I will say that I have been happiest when I've had bosses that were better at the job than I was, that I could learn from, that actually respected what I was able to do even when it was not necessarily what they would have done. I felt that they trusted me to do the damn job and to get a positive result, without worrying about my methods so long as they didn't make things worse in the process. Those bosses have been very, very few and far between though.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  4. My boss I am by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I was hired by my boss to do his job when he fails to do it himself. Essentially, he drops balls and I have to be there to catch them mid-flight unexpectedly.

    Actually, I like my boss as he's extremely knowledgeable and intelligent. But dammit, he can't multitask his way out of a paper bag. When he attempt, everything is left to half-ass completion!

    1. Re:My boss I am by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

      Obviously not covered by the study but IMO important:

      A major factor in "competence" is knowing your own limitations and being able to identify when you don't know something. So a boss that KNOWS their limitations and delegates those tasks is, IMO, a highly competent one.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
  5. Peter Principle by Solandri · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The Peter Principle is a concept in management theory in which the selection of a candidate for a position is based on the candidate's performance in his or her current role rather than on abilities relevant to the intended role. Thus, employees only stop being promoted once they can no longer perform effectively, and "managers rise to the level of their incompetence."

    The solution (assuming you're already in a state with incompetent managers) is to allow incompetent managers to be demoted back into a position they're competent in. Unfortunately, society has a huge bias against workplace demotion.

    1. Re:Peter Principle by Tom · · Score: 2

      This one hundred times.

      The company who can solve the issue of demotion without loss of face is going to go far.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    2. Re:Peter Principle by smooth+wombat · · Score: 2

      Can we do the same with incompetent workers? Based solely on the lousy software from multi-billion dollar companies I have to deal with on a daily basis, there are many programmers who would do wonderfully as janitors.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    3. Re:Peter Principle by Shoten · · Score: 1

      This one hundred times.

      The company who can solve the issue of demotion without loss of face is going to go far.

      How about demoting the incompetent boss and the fuckwit who promoted them that one step too far together? Root cause analysis, after all, is crucial when resolving a process failure...

      --

      For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
    4. Re:Peter Principle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      How about demoting the incompetent boss and the fuckwit who promoted them that one step too far together? Root cause analysis, after all, is crucial when resolving a process failure...

      So, I'd agree with you in principle if we put in two safeguards: (1) it never rises to the level of more than incompetent boss and person who promoted said boss and (2) that there's a grace period where promoter can demote said person without fear of punishment. The former is to avoid it having an unintentional ripple effect in the company. The latter is to at least force promoters and the new bosses to spend at least some effort on the competence part on their own end for a time. The long-term idea of just equating leaving a person promoted who is incompetent as equivalent to gross incompetence won't work for the same reason it doesn't work in tenured positions, and that's effectively what most middle management is. It's a shame more people who decry tenure don't realize that and focus it towards company hierarchies which rarely are subjected to the laws of the free market.

    5. Re:Peter Principle by sjames · · Score: 1

      The very fact that it is considered a demotion says a lot. The further you are away from the actual product, the greater your status. Pay structure is arranged in such a way that the most incompetent district manager will always make more than the most brilliant engineer. The only way to increase the engineer's pay is to 'promote' him to be an incompetent district manager.

      The problem is that we see manager not as a vocation and a skillset but as a position in a hierarchy of merit.

    6. Re:Peter Principle by jbolden · · Score: 1

      I worked for a company that had a good solution for that. Project managers reported to either managers or directors. Program managers handled much larger assignments and reported to VPs, SVPs, C-level... They had tremendous juice and the fact they got assigned sent a "I want to get this done" message from the executive level down to middle management. Program managers were generally chosen from directors or VPs. So this offered a way for them to demote people who had risen up to middle management and weren't cut out for it, while still retaining their skills. At the same time it made use of the contacts and skills they had developed at the director / VP level. It also wasn't so face losing as a pure demotion would be.

    7. Re:Peter Principle by CrankyFool · · Score: 2

      My company seems to have gotten to the point of doing this reasonably well -- in the last 18 months or so, I saw three individual contributors (IC) get promoted to manager, and then within 3-6 months decide the job wasn't for them. In all cases, the general perception from around them was admiration they were introspective enough to realize this, and happiness they'd decide to go back to IC instead of leaving (I've also seen at least one case of someone promoted to management, who didn't realize he wasn't into management until another company offered him an IC position, at which point he jumped ship. I was sad about that).

      It helps to work in an environment where there are no formalized payscales that are affected by the mgmt/IC choice -- typical managers here get paid somewhere around the average for their team's salaries, so it's not like you're going to get an automatic raise if you go to management, nor get a pay cut if you go back to being an IC.

      (That said, an important distinction here is that this was driven by the new managers' own decisions. I suspect that if they were terrible, but decided they were happy being managers and clawed onto the role with all their might, the only way we'd have dislodged them would have been through more ... traditional means).

    8. Re:Peter Principle by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

      The Peter Principle is a concept in management theory in which the selection of a candidate for a position is based on the candidate's performance in his or her current role rather than on abilities relevant to the intended role. Thus, employees only stop being promoted once they can no longer perform effectively, and "managers rise to the level of their incompetence."

      While this is part of the story, it can get even worse under situations with a lot of pressure.

      The summary says:

      it does make you wonder how long organizations can afford to continue promoting incompetent bosses in today's very dynamic and competitive business world.

      There are a couple misunderstandings here. First off, "very dynamic and competitive" often means a lot of small businesses simply won't succeed. So, frankly, most businesses will NOT afford it. They will fail or be bought out by a competitor.

      The other problem is that in such high-pressure situations (and even in less pressured situations in the business world) promotions tend to be made on the basis of those who can demonstrate outlier positive results. Someone who makes a major advance that gives a significant sudden advantage in the marketplace will often be valued more than someone who has given consistently positive -- but more mediocre -- results for years.

      The problem with promoting outliers is that they are often just that: outliers. Which means there's usually a lot of luck or "just being in the right place at the right time" involved. It's like picking a stock on the basis of which company performed best last week -- sure a 50% gain in a few days looks terrific, but is it sustainable? Or is that really just a lucky break, a weird blip in the market, a one-time shift, etc.?

      Promotions can sometimes happen on the same basis, particularly when there is competitive pressure to take risks and produce an outlier result. Many will fail, but some will succeed -- and is their success due to skill, or simply due to the fact that they actually made some really risky decisions that just paid off by chance? If the latter, you've just promoted a guy because he tends to be a risky outlier, not because he actually has proven he can keep things going up steadily for years as a manager or executive.

      So I absolutely agree with the parent that demotion NEEDS to be a part of corporate culture. It's the only way to weed out the statistical blips and outliers that get promoted for their chance performance, particularly in a competitive world that encourages higher risk-taking.

    9. Re:Peter Principle by Tom · · Score: 1

      It helps to work in an environment where there are no formalized payscales that are affected by the mgmt/IC choice

      This is probably the biggest contributor. Largely, for completely irrational reasons, management is he higher-paying job and that's why people want to be there, even if it's not for them.

      It's also the reason you end up not just with the incompetent, but also with the even worse: The purely ambition driven eat-my-dust assholes who'll gladly sacrifice your happiness, career, success and first born son if it helps them score the next raise or the next step up their personal career ladder.

      Those guys are worse than the incompetent.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    10. Re:Peter Principle by Tom · · Score: 1

      How about demoting the incompetent boss and the fuckwit who promoted them that one step too far together?

      You can only discourage risk-taking to a certain extend before your machine comes to a stop because nobody dares to move anymore.

      Promoting people to management positions who have no management experience is always a risky move. Sometimes they turn out to be brilliant, sometimes not. But it's almost impossible to find out beforehand, so you just have to take the risk. The problem is that due to pay scales and perception, it's largely a one-way street and that's a huge problem.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    11. Re:Peter Principle by cant_get_a_good_nick · · Score: 1

      "The Peter Principle", yeah, my uncle bought this book when it was "new", when he was studying his MBA. A good read.

      Also in the book was "Peter's Parry", with parry having the meaning "to dodge". If you know you're going to suck in the higher role, how do you back off? Sadly, there's also a huge bias against people knowing their skill set limitations and saying no. "How can you refuse a promotion?!!??".

      Another solution is parallel tracks. If you don't want to promote your developer into a management track (going from technical skills to more organizational and people skills) what's a parallel track for promoting her as an engineer? Senior engineer is bandied around a lot, but how about architecture roles, platform evangelist, etc, to keep them in roles with skill sets closer to what they've shown.

  6. I Once Had A Boss Tell Us He 'Hates Computers.' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    He was a VP in charge of a large software development organization for a Fortune Five company subsidiary.

    After a reorg, and this guy came in, he called the staff to his (large, well-appointed) office, and told us to note that he did not have a computer on his desk.

    He mentioned that he was a lawyer, and disliked computers.

    That was my 'résumé moment' at that company.

    Needless to say, that subsidiary has long since gone the way of the dodo.

    1. Re:I Once Had A Boss Tell Us He 'Hates Computers.' by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      He probably didn't care. He probably got paid well.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    2. Re:I Once Had A Boss Tell Us He 'Hates Computers.' by khchung · · Score: 1

      Far easier solution than announcing lay-offs.

      Exactly what I thought also.

      --
      Oliver.
  7. Re:Office Space by goarilla · · Score: 1

    I'm a government worker. I have 8 bosses (actually probably more, but who cares). None of them manage me at all.

    Only 8, I work at a university in a niche engineering department.
    We have +12 professors. 12 Kings who only care about their "research" and prestigeprojects.

  8. How do you get good people to step up? by PeterM+from+Berkeley · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Many people don't want to manage other people. It's a tough job, often thankless, and in the words of a co-worker who quit being a boss and went back to technical work, it's like managing a bunch of four-year-olds who can't get along.

    If you want good bosses, step up to the plate and make the sacrifice and do the job. Also, be a good employee, good employees can attract good bosses.

    Also, in a random digression, I don't think a good technical boss necessarily HAS to be good technically. S/he just has to be able to listen effectively to the people who ARE good technically--which is something s/he should be doing even if s/he IS good technically. A boss who doesn't listen is in my opinion worse than a boss who is ignorant, knows it, and respects the experts s/he supervises.

    --PeterM

    1. Re:How do you get good people to step up? by gsslay · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Employees having been whining about their boss' incompetence since the beginning of time. A large percentage of them reckon they can do their bosses job, and better.

      And then one day they have to do a bosses job. That's when they find out that there's way more to it than they imagined.

    2. Re:How do you get good people to step up? by Enry · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Honestly, it depends on the outlook of the boss. I went from technical to management and back to sorta technical/sorta management. The proper attitude for a mid-level manager especially for technical staff is "what can I do to make sure they can do their job?". And that's how I approached my staff at the time - what do they need from me, what tasks do I think they could be doing to further their career, what grunt work stuff has to be done and assigned to somebody? Balance all that out, make sure your team knows you are looking out for them (and take their side when dealing with upper management) and you'll have their support and enthusiasm. I wound up getting laid off and still talk to the people that used to work for me. They say I was one of the best managers they had, partially because I was technical enough to know what they were talking about, but also I was working with them before being promoted so I was almost literally in their shoes and could see their side of issues.

    3. Re:How do you get good people to step up? by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      Also, in a random digression, I don't think a good technical boss necessarily HAS to be good technically. S/he just has to be able to listen effectively to the people who ARE good technically--which is something s/he should be doing even if s/he IS good technically. A boss who doesn't listen is in my opinion worse than a boss who is ignorant, knows it, and respects the experts s/he supervises.

      --PeterM

      A similar thought. Can a boss remain good technically? Most of my bosses used to be tech people, presumably reasonably good at their jobs. But when they got promoted to the big chair, they were kept busy with boss-stuff, and their tech-skills fell behind.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    4. Re:How do you get good people to step up? by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      And then one day they have to do a bosses job. That's when they find out that there's way more to it than they imagined.

      Yep. When I was in the Navy, one of my juniors bitched about his workload and lack of sleep and how he couldn't wait to be senior... so I put him on my schedule for a week. He was remarkably meek after that.

    5. Re:How do you get good people to step up? by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

      If you want good bosses, step up to the plate and make the sacrifice and do the job.

      I am pretty sure this is how we will (if ever) get a good government, too. The government has to be "us" not "them" yet almost none of us are willing to let it be "me."

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    6. Re:How do you get good people to step up? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Employees having been whining about their boss' incompetence since the beginning of time

      This is true. However sometimes a boss really is incompetent.

      When you have to find ways to work around your boss to actually get your work done, it's probably a good indicator that your boss doesn't know what he's doing.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    7. Re:How do you get good people to step up? by Atrox666 · · Score: 1

      The boss in IT does not have to be technically competent but they have to be a techie for two reasons.

      1) You have to be able to understand the lingo and the significance of it. I've had project managers that didn't know what a driver is. That was insulting and we had to drag this moron through the whole process.

      2) If IT is run by non-techies then it's always a clusterfuck. It also tells your IT people that you think any schlub in a suit can just step in and do it.
       

  9. In further shocking news... by cogeek · · Score: 1, Funny

    Fire is hot, water is wet!

  10. Soylent blue is managers! MAAAANAGGGERSS!! by Thud457 · · Score: 2

    And what are we supposed to do with these incompetents if we can't promote them out to management?
    We can't very well grind them up into hamburger and feed them to the poor.
    There aren't enough circuses left anymore where we can rely on escaped lions to keep the manager population in check.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    1. Re:Soylent blue is managers! MAAAANAGGGERSS!! by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Funny

      And what are we supposed to do with these incompetents if we can't promote them out to management?

      Something about a B Ark ...

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Soylent blue is managers! MAAAANAGGGERSS!! by plover · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And what are we supposed to do with these incompetents if we can't promote them out to management?

      Where do you think executives come from.

      You'd be surprised how much damage an incompetent executive can do. It may not be immediate, but it poisons an organization systemically. A bad boss can be fired. Firing a bad exec may not remove the toxins fast enough for the organization to recover.

      --
      John
    3. Re:Soylent blue is managers! MAAAANAGGGERSS!! by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      And what are we supposed to do with these incompetents if we can't promote them out to management?

      Where do you think executives come from.

      You'd be surprised how much damage an incompetent executive can do. It may not be immediate, but it poisons an organization systemically. A bad boss can be fired. Firing a bad exec may not remove the toxins fast enough for the organization to recover.

      Is that the reason Scott Adams developed Dilbert?

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    4. Re:Soylent blue is managers! MAAAANAGGGERSS!! by Bengie · · Score: 1

      My work has a paper you sign every year about if you understand that process of reporting people.

      Nutshell:
      1) Report the offense to that person's superior
      2) If #1 didn't work, report it to HR
      3) If #2 didn't work, report it to the CEO
      4) If #3 didn't work, report it to the local government and report it to the news agencies. Paper included contact numbers for local government and news organizations.
      a) If it's something illegal, always report it to the law

      They take the stance that if an offense continues to happen that they deserve to be smeared publicly.

    5. Re:Soylent blue is managers! MAAAANAGGGERSS!! by Bengie · · Score: 1

      If it's something criminal, not illegal.

  11. Looks Like This May Be Controversial ... by CrankyFool · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I manage a group of engineers; I've spent about half of my career being an IC engineer and half managing engineers, and it's been intertwined -- in this company, I started off as an IC, then became a manager, moved to another group as an IC, then became a manager. When my boss proposed to me that I manage the group I manage today, I declined because I didn't think I was technically competent enough -- I'd never actually built the huge, scalable, systems they built, and I knew they could run laps around me.

    Eventually, he persuaded me to take the position, with my team's consent. On my first day with my team I sat down with each person in the team and literally my first question to each of them was "What's my job around here?" And they told me they didn't need or want someone to review or approve their technical decisions -- when they had doubt, they talked with each other. They wanted someone to help them understand our customers a little better, and that's why they wanted me.

    Generally speaking, I figure my job is to act as a retention aid (my presence around should make my engineers want to stick around more than if I wasn't around) and doing whatever the hell my team needs done that engineers don't want to do. I have technical opinions, sure, and sometimes I even disagree with my engineers. And they do whatever they think is the right thing to do. I think about 80% of the time we disagree, they're right.

    I'm good at some things; I'm bad at others. I wonder if the issue is not whether or not a manager is technically competent, but whether or not a manager is competent in the area in which that manager actually spends their time, and their team expects them to spend their time.

    1. Re:Looks Like This May Be Controversial ... by tomhath · · Score: 1

      I wonder if the issue is not whether or not a manager is technically competent, but whether or not a manager is competent in the area in which that manager actually spends their time

      I completely agree. A good manager does management functions (forecasting/budgeting, recruiting, team building, training, etc). If a manager tries to be the technical lead it rips the team apart; subordinates cannot make any decisions (or their decisions are overruled) and the other functions that a manager should be doing are ignored.

    2. Re:Looks Like This May Be Controversial ... by CrankyFool · · Score: 1

      It's worth noting that this isn't always the manager's fault. A bunch of companies look for their managers to do both the classic people management stuff and the technical leadership stuff. I interviewed at Facebook some time ago, for example; FB tries to create heterogeneous engineering teams with widely disparate levels of technical expertise. While the more experienced engineers are expected to provide some technical mentoring to the engineers, most of the responsibility seems to be expected to fall to the manager, so the manager has to provide technical leadership to the team, in various degrees based on which team member they're dealing with. Once you open the door to "the manager knows best sometimes," I think it makes it much harder to know where to draw the line.

  12. Bottom-Up Feedback Lacking by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    The biggest problem with most orgs in my opinion is lack of bottom-up feedback. As long as a boss kisses up to the right superiors and same-level managers, they can be dickheads to their subordinates or get away with glaring gaps.

    There should be more feedback from subordinates in their evaluations. Often managers have one two bad habits that if not kept in check, will run out of control. I have bad habits also that would get worse if not kept in check by my boss and colleagues, such as silly things I can get fastidious about or being too frank at the wrong time.

    I'm not saying subordinate feedback should be given the same weight as superior evaluations, only that it play a role.

    And non-technical managers can still do a decent job in my opinion if they are good listeners and seek a variety of opinions. A good manager can manage just about anything. All else being equal, a boss with a tech background is better, but if they suck in other areas, I'll take a balanced non-tech boss instead.

    1. Re:Bottom-Up Feedback Lacking by blackraven14250 · · Score: 1

      A good manager can manage just about anything.

      I'm glad you bolded this part, because I completely to agree, and it's one of the most important parts of understanding management overall. Management anything requires a certain skillset, particularly focused on listening and delegation (recognizing employees' skillsets and enabling employees to use them efficiently). If you're able to do that, you're able to manage any employee in any industry once you have a basic understanding of what the company and that particular group is trying to achieve.

  13. The point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    You seem to have missed the point. I don't think it's a mystery that the competence of your boss contributes to your workplace happiness. The important thing relevant to this study, however, is that the competence of your boss is the single strongest predictor of workers' well-being, way ahead of other factors such as education, earnings, job tenure and public vs. private sector.

    That's not a "duh", and it's a valuable piece of data that companies can use to try to retain valuable employees, a direction in which they can invest resources to avoid costly turnover and the constant expense of training new employees and/or avoid loss of productivity due to miserable employees.

    1. Re:The point by flyingsquid · · Score: 1

      You seem to have missed the point. I don't think it's a mystery that the competence of your boss contributes to your workplace happiness. The important thing relevant to this study, however, is that the competence of your boss is the single strongest predictor of workers' well-being, way ahead of other factors such as education, earnings, job tenure and public vs. private sector.

      That's not a "duh", and it's a valuable piece of data that companies can use to try to retain valuable employees, a direction in which they can invest resources to avoid costly turnover and the constant expense of training new employees and/or avoid loss of productivity due to miserable employees.

      So how do companies recognize these valuable bosses? The study itself may provide the answer. If competency predicts happiness, then perhaps worker happiness is a predictor of competence? The implication is that perhaps employees should be given a bigger say in who gets promotions. I suppose we run the risk of bosses taking a bread-and-circuses approach to employee management, but it seems fairly obvious that if the people you're already managing are miserable, you shouldn't be promoted so that you manage even more people.

  14. Rubbish by taustin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It is not the technical competence of the boss that is the determining factor, it is the competence at managing technical people. Technical competence of their own can help this, though it doesn't always, But it's not mandatory. I have one boss (out of three) who can reliably turn a computer on and off without printed notes (with pictures), and he has very little idea what I do. But they're good people managers. They recognize that they know basically nothing of what I do, and leave me alone to do it. They know what they want - network up and running, computers not overly slow, various new toys their friends have, and they know how to tell whether or not they're getting it. Everything else they leave to me, and when I tell them "that's not going to work" or "it's going to cost this much, and you don't want to spend that much," they trust my judgment because they know I know more about my job than they do. I've been on the same job for over 20 years, and still look forward to going to work every morning.

    Managing people is a specific skillset, and not an easy one to master. And it's an important one, that computer geeks wrongly dismiss in much the same way that MBAs wrongly dismiss technical skillsets. It's a popular mistake that managers have to (pretend to) be able to do every job in their department, because MBAs are taught that. But it just isn't true.

    1. Re:Rubbish by DerekLyons · · Score: 2

      Managing people is a specific skillset, and not an easy one to master. And it's an important one, that computer geeks wrongly dismiss in much the same way that MBAs wrongly dismiss technical skillsets.

      The problem with geeks isn't so much they dismiss management skillsets, as they dismiss pretty much every non-geek skillset or imagine that said all such sets can be reduced and converted square-peg-into-round-hole into the geek skillset. They also strongly tend to have what I call the "worm's eye view problem"... they see what the world looks like from their desk, and assume that's the whole of the world. (Though this problem isn't limited to geeks, they're particularly susceptible to it due to the aforementioned mistaken belief that every skillset is a subset of the geek set.)

  15. Well, yeah. by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1
    I could have told you that decades ago.

    .
    I was recently "managed" by a CIO who told me outright that he does not understand technology.

    Working for him was like participating in a slow motion train wreck. People were leaving the department left and right. I knew the whole situation would not end up in a happy place. And it didn't.

  16. How about rotating the boss hat? by PeterM+from+Berkeley · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Have a culture of rotating people in and out of management to "lower" positions. Like department heads at universities, the job lasts a year or two then you're back as a normal faculty.

    I rotated in and out of a money management job, now I'm back doing technical stuff. As a result I have a very good understanding of that end of the business as well as the techical end.

    --PM

    1. Re:How about rotating the boss hat? by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

      I can't figure out if that's stunningly brilliant (gets people to learn a shitload more, and in wider scope), or a cowardly copout to avoid the stigma of demotion ("we demote everybody"). Maybe it's both.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    2. Re:How about rotating the boss hat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I personally object to the idea of "management" versus "lower" positions.

      If a guy's my manager it merely means he is a cheap way to have me concentrating on higher value technical tasks than tedious and repetitive administration. He needs me and I need him. The minute he starts thinking I'm "lower" than him will be the day he starts looking for a new engineer.

    3. Re:How about rotating the boss hat? by neonfrog · · Score: 1

      How about, "Never let any one person stay in a management position for too long, so you never have to pay that position too much?" The reason could be Just Business (TM).

      --

      I'm thinking about it, therefore I might be.

    4. Re:How about rotating the boss hat? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      It's extremely brilliant, actually. It's useful to have your employees be able to follow the workflow for as many aspects of your company as possible, which often means getting them to work in as many departments as possible. How do you get someone to willingly move from engineering to accounting? A promotion, of course!

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    5. Re:How about rotating the boss hat? by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

      There's the up or out philosophy used by the military, financial industry, law firms, and academia. You either excel and move on to better things or you're fired. Needs a lot of people striving for the top. But it solves the peter principle. People are not allowed to simply remain incompetent in a position for too long.

  17. Re:What if you have a technically incompetent boss by Enry · · Score: 2

    If they have good leadership skills, they'll get out of your way and provide cover. In which case you better have someone with serious technical chops to lead the group in a technical manner.

  18. Re:Office Space by afidel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You don't have to be a tech wiz to manage an IT department. In fact my bosses boss is a business degree guy who managed malls before being thrust into IT management (he had run his own skunkworks IT group at a previous employer because their central IT was so horrible, new CEO came in, got wind of what he was doing and promoted him to CIO). What he DOES do is listen to both the business people AND his technical people. He won't force a solution that doesn't work for both sides and he won't promise anything to the business that we technically can't deliver. He's by far the best IT manager I've ever worked under. My direct supervisor is technical, and I'm a technical manager, but the guys running the show don't have to be tech guys for things to run correctly, they need to be good managers.

    --
    There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  19. The Technical conundrum.... by erp_consultant · · Score: 4, Informative

    This kind of thing seems to happen a lot in big companies. People that are deemed "talented" in technical jobs are "promoted" into management jobs. Other managers see this as some sort of reward for being so good at what you do. Often the technical person has risen as far as they can in terms of salary and responsibility and the only place left to go is management.

    That's the conundrum. Do you stay in your current position, effectively dead-ending yourself career wise, or do you make the leap into management for greater potential riches?

    The problem, as I see it, is that very few companies offer a track to senior management by sticking to the technical path. Inevitably, someone will try and steer you towards project management or some other management job. Google is a notable exception to this.

    Many technical people are just not well suited to management jobs. Too many meetings, too much posturing, too many political games...too many whatever. Putting people like this in management jobs helps nobody - especially the technical person that is Ill suited for management.

    So what to do?

    I think that salary ranges are part of the problem. It guarantees that eventually a person will "top out" salary wise at a given job. At that point you can either go the management route or, more likely, go to a competitor that offers more money. Your hand is kind of being forced. Instead, why not continue to give this employee raises? If they have hung around long enough to get to the top pay scale and they are good at what they do then why force them to have to make that choice?

    I have been a technical manager and I can say without hesitation that one great developer is worth more than 10 average ones. If I have a great developer on my team I'm going to pay them really well. If he ends up making more than me then so be it. In the end, I will look good because this rock star will carry the team. It's a win-win.

    1. Re:The Technical conundrum.... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Inevitably, someone will try and steer you towards project management or some other management job. Google is a notable exception to this.

      How does Google handle this?

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re:The Technical conundrum.... by erp_consultant · · Score: 1

      As i understand it, you can rise quite high at Google as a purely technical person. Google, being a newer company, tends to have a flatter organization structure than older more established companies. Old companies (Banks, Government, Automotive, Insurance, etc.) tend to have a lot of fat in the middle.

    3. Re:The Technical conundrum.... by RyoShin · · Score: 1

      Instead, why not continue to give this employee raises?

      There seems to be a rough idea, at least in America, that the higher you are on the org chart the greater your income should be; not just greater in general, but it also has to be greater than anyone who is below you on the chart. The only regular exceptions seem to be AAA rockstars of whatever it is they do (Hollywood being an example of this, where actors seem to make more money than producers or studio execs) or contract positions.

      I'm with you on this: Someone's income should be related to the relative value they bring to the company, not the position they hold. A good manager is a good thing, but it's the manager's team that actually creates the product/value and there should be nothing wrong with any number of them making more money than the manager. The manager may be a guiding and protective force, but he can't replace his team (and may not even be able to replace a single person on his team, which isn't a problem IMO), and so they should

      But, if this were taken up by the general public, the income of CEOs would plummet, so that won't happen. For some reason our capitalistic society says that money must flow to the top. It's odd, like having a maintenance team for a large suspension bridge who spends the vast majority of their time maintaining the warning lights at the top. Yes, those are certainly important, but while you're polishing those light fixtures the bridge will crumble from the bottom up.

  20. continue promoting incompetent bosses by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    And it will continue as long as the rest of us continue promoting 'incompetent' politicians. It really is no different. We act the same on every level, in every organization. It's just our nature... Maybe we'll come around, but first we need to recognize the world isn't driven by human intellect. Primitive emotions and instinct trump all of that. Hence the apparent chaos.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    1. Re:continue promoting incompetent bosses by Truekaiser · · Score: 1

      I have heard it said that the worst people for the job of management and political heads of state(city, state, etc) are the ones who ask for it the most.

  21. Re:Office Space by blue9steel · · Score: 1

    My direct supervisor is technical, and I'm a technical manager, but the guys running the show don't have to be tech guys for things to run correctly, they need to be good managers.

    Supervisors should be technically competent. For managers this isn't as big a deal. Your CIO sounds like he has exactly the right way to approach the problem. Hire the right people, then listen to them.

  22. Obvious by ledow · · Score: 1

    Apart from the obviously correct outcome;

    I've found that what matters most about a job is who I work under. I can't properly work under idiots. The person above me - getting on with them, not having to put on a front with them, having them understand or have done my job themselves - is the most important aspect of my selecting a job. And, sorry, but I select jobs as much as they choose whether they want me.

    If you want me to work for you, you have to have done - or could do in a pinch - my job. It's a simple rule.

    My favourite time was working under a boss who was technically literate if not complete expert (but good enough to spot the difference between technical mumbo-jumbo and actual technical solutions) who answered to only one person - who was also technically literate if not expert. Between the two of them, they rebuilt an entire school network after a disappointing experience with some contracted-out IT. They were literally there pushing the Windows CD's into the servers and bringing up the AD themselves from scratch.

    Though their effort was far from perfect, it did the job, and THEY UNDERSTOOD that it was only ever a stopgap. And, in fact, hired me to clean it up. That was brilliant. I was there for several years. When the boss's boss left to retire (and his retirement gift was a Mini-ITX PC loaded up with DosBOX and Linux and his favourite games!), my boss still kept the place good to work for.

    After a while, he was forcibly removed from his job (he nearly had a heart attack from work stress, and quit to work elsewhere encouraging me to follow suit) because his boss did not appreciate or understand what he did for a living. From that point on, I was managed by someone with no clue about what I did for a living. I delivered all the promises I'd made, and got the hell out of there.

    I took a six-month hiatus of taking only temporary work for places I liked (including taking a "demotion" and working for someone who was in the same job role as I was previously - it was fabulous, I think we both loved it, we're still friends on Facebook etc.) because I was promised a job.

    My boss had spoken to his friend, who worked in the same position at a place nearer to my home, to contact me after they got into IT trouble. I was available but it wasn't the "right time" for the other place (they needed to get rid of someone first!), yet I was hired on the basis of starting the next April. Promises were delivered upon, and I was more than happy to hold out for the right job rather than be dumped into a job under someone who doesn't understand what I do for a living.

    My new boss knows what I do for a living, understands it, works with it, can't be duped by my waffling, and knows what's reasonable and what's not. In a pinch, he could do my job. The new job is great. His own boss may not know much about IT, but it doesn't matter - his boss could do his job in a pinch. It works. It makes for a perfect work environment.

    I still talk to my old boss regularly. I still keep in contact with the temporary boss I had in between. And my new boss and I have a laugh almost every day. Everyone else? Pah. Who cares?

    Work for someone who could do your job. Maybe not forever. Maybe to the same depth of skill. But understands what you do because they've been there or know enough.

  23. Re:Office Space by goarilla · · Score: 1

    You're absolutely right, But it's been this way for 5 years and in academia this client/employer distinction is
    especially blurry.

  24. Unfortunately there is no solution by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Since the fix would have to start at the C-Level. And these duds will certainly not fire themselves.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  25. The other side of the coin by sandytaru · · Score: 1

    It's also difficult to work under a boss who is not only smarter than you, but also smarter than those above them too. Brilliant people have no trouble understanding the technical aspects in addition to the managerial aspects. What they do have issues with is setting the right expectations for their subordinates, and letting go of their perfectionism in light of realistic expectations of average human capabilities. My current boss will go far in his career, but my secret hope is that he might get promoted out from under his current boss and I'll be shifted to someone else who is perhaps less brilliant.... but also easier to work with as a result.

    --
    Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
  26. They're not hired for their writing ability! by Mad-Bassist · · Score: 1

    I've frequently had bosses that wrote cringeworthy notes, the latest being a reminder to turn the clocks back for...

    "Daylight Saving's Time."

    Ugh. No "saving" some people.

    --
    "The only legitimate use of a computer is to play games." - Eugene Jarvis
  27. And this is where editors might be nice... by sirwired · · Score: 1

    Look at the following phrase at the end of TFS: "...it does make you wonder how long organizations can afford to continue promoting incompetent bosses in today's very dynamic and competitive business world."

    Any editor with a nicely-sharpened red pencil would cross that right out. The first thing that pops into my head was "As opposed to some world in the past that was neither competitive nor dynamic?" When exactly was this, 'cause I don't know when it was. Being hide-bound and slow has never exactly been a recipe for business success, even if other factors meant you didn't go bankrupt right away.

  28. Re:Office Space by tnk1 · · Score: 1

    You don't have to move if you don't want to. And perhaps you shouldn't, if your support network is important to you.

    Still, there are places in the US where more tech people are needed and advancement is 100% possible. I moved from a place that was probably not Southern Indiana but still low opportunity, and took up residence in a metro area with a lot of tech. I have not had to worry about true unemployment at any time, even during all recessions we've had and I have been regularly promoted.

    One of the worst tasks I have is trying to fill empty positions, because everyone good already has a job, and even people who aren't so good already have jobs.

    What is important to you? If you want money, and career opportunity, you probably need to move. And honestly, it will suck for a little while, but you'll be doing financially much better in very little time if you have any skills whatsoever. Before I moved, I couldn't even afford to buy a TV, let alone cable. First thing I did on my new salary was buy a damn TV and cable. My income literally tripled on that move.

    However, there are a lot of sacrifices in going to a tech center. Traffic, suburban sprawl, probably worst of all, poor interpersonal contacts. On the flip side, there's a lot more to do and very often a lot more culture. Significantly more people who you can talk to about tech. And when you decide to retire, you can sell your overpriced townhouse for a profit and live comfortably anywhere you want, including Indiana.

    I'm not telling you to move, but if you are in tech, you have options. It is simply a matter of deciding what is important to you and making an informed decision.

    Moving isn't free, but it is far from impossible. If that is your only excuse, then it is a bad one.

    Deciding that your true priority is to live in the sticks and thereby remain close to home is an informed decision based on what makes you happy and is entirely reasonable.

    Just don't use moving expenses as an excuse for inertia. Only you know enough to decide, but moving for a single guy only requires a little savings and some determination. And sometimes, they'll even pay moving expenses, and not just for hot shots.

  29. My experience by Marginal+Coward · · Score: 1

    My experience has been that the biggest factor in how my boss affects my happiness is the boss's people skills. After that, there's resource management, and technical competance probably comes about third. Let's look at these individually:

    People skills: Obviously, somebody who doesn't manage people well shouldn't be a boss. This sometimes gets overlooked during promotion, when they promote someone who is technically smart (or else just a good politician) but who lacks people skills. It's always a disaster. A primary part of being a good boss is making people feel respected and valued. Many technical geniuses simply don't think that way.

    Resource management: This has to do with boring stuff like schedules, budgets, equipment, etc. Aside from being treated badly personally, few things can make technical people unhappier than having an unrealistic schedule and not being given what they need to do the job.

    Technical skills: It can be very bad to have a technical boss who doesn't understand technical stuff. In my experience, the best bosses have been people who were good - but not necessarily great - at the technical stuff. If they're completely incompetent, that's a red flag for the Dilbert Principle. Conversely, someone who is a technical genius is probably happier doing what they're best at: being a technical genius. The very worst case is someone who isn't very good and knows that (as everybody else does), and is insecure about it. That's real trouble. I once left a job precisely because of one such boss.

    With those categories covered, everything else is round-off error.

  30. Does your boss know their limits by BenSchuarmer · · Score: 2

    In my experience, it's OK if my boss isn't technical if:

    • 1) they know it
    • 2) their boss knows it
    • 3) the team is technically competent
    • 4) the team's opinions are respected
    • 4) the boss doesn't make any promises (without consulting the team first)
  31. not going to change by tverbeek · · Score: 1

    "it does make you wonder how long organizations can afford to continue promoting incompetent bosses in today's very dynamic and competitive business world."

    Indefinitely? As long as all organizations are doing it, there's no competitive disadvantage to it. And as long as the job market remains one in which the overall supply of workers exceeds the demand (no change of that in sight), employees will continue to put up with unhappiness, incompetent bosses, etc (at least up to the point where the incompetent boss fires them for threatening their own employment ... no, I'm not bitter, why do you ask?)

    --
    http://alternatives.rzero.com/
  32. The worst place to have a bad boss by Capt.Albatross · · Score: 1

    If you think it is unpleasant to have an incompetent boss at work, spare a thought for all the soldiers in WW1 whose bosses thought massive frontal assaults were the way to win.
     

  33. Side Effects by Jodka · · Score: 1

    your boss's technical competence is the single strongest predictor of workers' well-being

    I am not disputing that that is the best correlated variable, but in my experience it is not the lack of technical competence per se which causes problems with bad bosses but instead the concomitant pathologists exhibited by low-skill bosses to compensate for their own incompetence.

    I have a story which illustrates the point: Earlier in my career I worked for a state government. One day I get to work and the lead programmer is having something of a breakdown in front of the project manager and they both happen to be standing in front of the entrance to my cubicle. So all I could do was wait there and listen. Turns out that the lead programmer had been devoting all of her time, and struggling for months, to find any way to digest and print the document files previously used in the old oracle/COBOL/dumb terminal system in our new custom client software running on OS X and which was replacing the dumb terminals. So I stand there and listen to the irate complaints from the lead programmer about how the problem was impossible to solve. At the end of the conversation I ask if she would like me to take a look at it. I was done by about 2:00pm the same day. It was easy. I just asked the DB programmer in the cubicle next to me for a sample of a document file. Looks like gibberish so I figure it's not PostScript and therefore must by PCL. Download and install the free GhostPCL renderer, an offshoot of the GhostScript project. Built and installed it. Wrapped the command-line GhostScript in Cocoa's NSTask. Threw together a GUI in interface builder. Wrote a little glue code in Objective-C to invoke Cocoa native classes for loading and displaying the output of GhostPCL and to invoke my NSTask GhostPCL wrapper. And checked the GhostPCL license, which I think might have been GPL, but since I was running it as a separate process and not modifying the source, or redistributing it outside of or organization, we were not compelled to share our custom OS X client source.

    Worked great. Everyone was happy. Except the lead programmer, who was livid and from then on set about trying to make my life hell. She banned the project manager from speaking to me. She excluded me from meetings.

    The fundamental problem was that the lead programmer did not know how to code. That is not a criticism of her programming skill, I mean she really did not know how to code. As in, literally, could not have programmed a single line to save her life. (Although I can not think of an actual circumstance where anyone would have to do that.) She did not understand what a pointer is. Did not now how to check code out of the repository. Would not have done any good if she had because she did not know how to build code. (In XCode. You click the build button.) Being technically incompetent, she was completely preoccupied with compensating for her own lack of skill, and it was that, not the lack of skill itself, which caused the problems.

    --
    Ceci n'est pas une signature.
    1. Re:Side Effects by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      I mean she really did not know how to code. As in, literally, could not have programmed a single line to save her life. (Although I can not think of an actual circumstance where anyone would have to do that.) She did not understand what a pointer is. Did not now how to check code out of the repository. Would not have done any good if she had because she did not know how to build code. (In XCode. You click the build button.) Being technically incompetent, she was completely preoccupied with compensating for her own lack of skill, and it was that, not the lack of skill itself, which caused the problems.

      If she had an MBA, it doesn't matter. That's all you need to be a supervisor today.

      That would be sarcasm, if it were not considered true - by the other MBA's/

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  34. Read this article several years ago by waspleg · · Score: 1

    and it feels even more true today. Thanks for the repost, I had forgotten about it.

  35. Wow! by buggsdummy · · Score: 1

    Just WOW!

  36. Representation by lottery by PeterM+from+Berkeley · · Score: 1

    >I am pretty sure this is how we will (if ever) get a good government, too. The government has to be "us" not "them" yet almost none of us are willing to let it be "me."

    How about representation by lottery? Every eligible adult (I guess I mean everyone except those currently serving a prison sentence) is entered into a lottery. The winners go serve in state or federal legislatures as representatives.

    They are beholden to NO ONE to get "elected", so don't show up corrupted. And they're far more representative a sample of the population. You'd get homeless people, teachers, blue collar workers, not just the rich privileged bastards we have now. Decriminalizing marijuana would already be accomplished nationwide under this scheme.

    My one fear is that the state/federal bureaucracy would end up all-powerful, because the legislators would be unskilled enough to push back vs. the bureaucracy.

    --PM

  37. The MBAs keep coming by echtertyp · · Score: 1

    the consequences follow.

  38. Fuck Technical Competence by WhoBeDaPlaya · · Score: 1

    I'm rather more concerned with his/her managerial competence, provided that they are decent enough technically.

  39. and i quote: by MossStan · · Score: 1

    "people are promoted to their highest level of incompetence." -mr. carroll in other news babies feel pain and the sky is blue. why does it always take a study to show what anyone whos head is not inserted in their anus knows already? since birth.

    --
    It is what it is.
  40. Re: Office Space by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    You want respect for sucking the government tit? Fuck you!

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  41. Re:Office Space by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

    Huh? Why months to pack up?

    He said build up a cushion. As in saving money. Shocking as this might be, a lot of people live paycheck to paycheck. My last boss made $100,000, his wife more than that, in Iowa, and they still had money woes. Which strikes me as crazy, but hey, not everyone has the best financial restraint.

    Seriously what could possible lock you into a single location?

    Family. A lot of people get such a large benefit from their local family support group that they would be devastated if that simply went away. Ever look at how much quality daycare costs in Boulder Colorado?

    Alternatively, the spouse. Changing cities is a major life change and it's best if everyone is on board. And they can have careers that anchor them to a city just as much as you want to leave it. Whose career is more important?

    And lastly, friends. You know how most people get their jobs through "networking" rather than their resume or merit? Guess how many friends people typically have out of town.

    Oh, but hey, you don't have any commitments or responsibilities as a 20-something tech professional and you think hopping on a greyhound to Silicon Valley is a viable choice for everyone else.

    Personally I think that even if you're cash-strapped with family bonds, you can still shop around on the international/global market for a better job. The worst that happens is you decline the job for not paying enough. If you find something that warrants the move, and I mean it pays off the moving costs and counter-balances the lost roots and all that jazz, go for it.

  42. Potemkin by ScooterComputer · · Score: 1

    "it does make you wonder how long organizations can afford to continue promoting incompetent bosses in today's very dynamic and competitive business world."

    As with Potemkin villages "all the way down", many organizations today are effectively "governed" by Potemkin mayors all the way up. Their success is largely due to momentum, market lethargy, and "luck" stemming from the overall skillset of their workforce.

    --
    Scott
    "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
  43. Your headlines are annoying and condescending by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

    Your Incompetent Boss Is Making You Unhappy

    No he isn't. Who started this stupid trend of headlines that think they know you?

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  44. But THAT's NOT HOW IT WORKS!!!! by tinkerghost · · Score: 1

    See, managers don't manage things, they manage people. And as long as you can manage your people you will lead your business to success. It says so right there in every MBA book ever written.

  45. I disagree 100% by msobkow · · Score: 1

    With one exception, the best managers I had over a 30+ year career knew nothing about programming. What they knew about was shielding developers from unrealistic expectations, pushing back on the user community's unreasonable and inconsistent demands, ensuring that budgets were adequate for the projects, arranging support from other departments (such as shipping/receiving and purchasing), and listening to what their technical staff were telling them about proposals and in-the-pipe projects.

    The one exception was good at those things, too; they just happened to also have over 20 years of programming experience from running their own consulting business.

    The worst bosses I had were the ones who'd take the arbitrary "requirements" dictated by the user communities and tell the developers they "had" to meet those impossible schedules, who failed to make resources and budget available to do the work necessary, who overscheduled critical resources such as designers and senior developers, and who insisted on meetings between the users and even the most junior of technicians to "get on the same page."

    The one common thread of every bad manager I ever had? They were MBA majors. Not as a secondary add-on degree, but as their primary degree.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  46. Re:Office Space by lgw · · Score: 2

    . Shocking as this might be, a lot of people live paycheck to paycheck

    To live paycheck-to-paycheck as an adult is to fail at life, or at least to fail at being an adult. Adulthood means responsibility, which for most of us primarily means financial responsibility.

    Alternatively, the spouse.

    IMO, the only good reason not to move to a better city for your line of work is because your spouse has a better career, and you're following his or her job around the country instead. Of course, not wanting to move with no job lined up is totally understandable, but to not even look for work in a hot market - well, it's fine to have other priorities, sure, but you chose not to have your career as a priority, don't blame others for that.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  47. Correlation by Livius · · Score: 1

    Maybe unhappy people are just more likely to perceive their bosses as incompetent at something or other. Because obviously the problem isn't them.

  48. You mean other than being a douchebag? by gelfling · · Score: 1

    My company has a j-shaped earning curve. Everyone scrapes by until they make "Director" level then it's millions in compensation. And when they reach that level they spend most of their time spitting on their employees just for shits and giggles. So fuck them, fuck their husbands wives and kids. Fuck them all kill them all.

  49. OH! Is THAT what it is? by Stubbyfingers · · Score: 1

    Wondered about that.

    Seriously, I had one boss that earned the nickname "Special Ed".

    He could turn on his PC and check email--and that was pretty much the limit of his technical prowess. So, upper management put him in charge of IT. He didn't know the difference between a DBA and network engineer. Worse--HE DIDN'T CARE if there was a difference. He would basically RANDOMLY assign tasks to people without regard to their skillset or even whether they had tools or access.

    EVER SEE AN APPLICATION PROGRAMMER TRYING TO BREAK INTO A WIRING CLOSET?

    YEAH, it happened.

  50. Oh the humanity... by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

    So the report confirms an earlier study that "Happy Workers are More Productive" yet every day on /. I read how the evil corporations always exploit the workers, believe they are interchangeable cogs, wah, wah, wah oh boo hoo. And yet as a hiring manager I know that in fact, happy employees come from NOT fucking them over. Will this stop the propaganda? Nope.

    And now, we learn that employees don't respect stupid bosses who don't know how to do their jobs. Imagine that! It's shocking!

    As an ex-developer turned boss I can state several some facts here based on actual life experience (As opposed to ivory tower study):

    The best developer makes a horrible boss. I know, I sucked at being a boss when I first got there because I was the hot shot developer

    One can code. Or one can manage. But one cannot code and manage. It's fantasy. Even if you do get a fancy title like "Architect"

    Developers mistakenly believe that management is easy, and their jobs are hard. Nothing could be further from the truth. Management is damn hard too.

    The "Project Manager" role is one of the most stupid things organizations ever came up with. With the possible exception of flat organizational charts and matrix organizational structures.

    Despite the thousands of books being written about management, most people suck at it until they have been at it for years. Funny thing, most junior programmers aren't as great as they think they are either, it takes years to develop good craft. So before you rant about your clueless boss, look in the mirror...

    YMMV

    --
    Murphy was an optimist
  51. Re:Office Space by lgw · · Score: 1

    I made sending out resumes work once - I tried to make 3 contacts a day, and it took six months - got to the West Coast that way. But now that I got my resume right on LinkedIn, I get a couple of contacts a month from recruiters with no effort on my part. (Look carefully at job descriptions/requirements, find any phrasing that appears commonly, use that exact phrasing.)

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  52. Re:Office Space by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

    Yeah, I agree you probably shouldn't just move to the coast and hope to land a job. That's crazy-talk from the stupidly over-optimistic guy telling you that hitchhiking your way there is a viable alternative. Don't listen to that guy.

    But send me your resume at heckruler83@yahoo.com. I'll let you know what I think of it.

  53. Upper-class individuals behave more unethically by NewYork · · Score: 1

    Upper-class individuals behave more unethically than lower-class individuals.
    http://www.pnas.org/cgi/doi/10.1073/pnas.1118373109

  54. Here is a trick. by NewYork · · Score: 1

    When studying a certain subject, pretending that you'll have to teach the material you're studying helps you pay more attention.

  55. Counterpoint by laughingskeptic · · Score: 1

    One of the best bosses I ever had was technically clueless. He had been the company's best salesman. When he wanted to travel less, the president made him our fledgling team's director. He viewed his new job's duty as 'selling the team to management'. He figured out what management wanted for him to look good and shared that with us. His attitude was 'make me look good and I'll make you look good'. He also understood his cluelessness and asked about what to read. He would take books like Steve McConnell's Rapid Development, photocopy chapters and read them one by one while he ran on his treadmill in the evenings. It was always fun noting his progress based on his behavior and questions. Seriously one of the best bosses ever and taken way too young by Lou Gehrig's.

  56. Re:Office Space by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

    That coward can't be job hunting all that hard if he never sent me a resume. Or hey, maybe just just finally stopped browsing slashdot and got back to work.

  57. Re:Office Space by Sardaukar86 · · Score: 1

    To live paycheck-to-paycheck as an adult is to fail at life, or at least to fail at being an adult.

    Assuming the adult in question is earning something more than just a basic living wage, I completely agree with you.

    Quelle suprise: there are precious few adults to be found amongst an over-abundance of idiotic, petulant children in adult bodies.

    --
    ..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?