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Sony Leaks Reveal Hollywood Is Trying To Break DNS
schwit1 sends this report from The Verge:
Most anti-piracy tools take one of two paths: they either target the server that's sharing the files (pulling videos off YouTube or taking down sites like The Pirate Bay) or they make it harder to find (delisting offshore sites that share infringing content). But leaked documents reveal a frightening line of attack that's currently being considered by the MPAA: What if you simply erased any record that the site was there in the first place? To do that, the MPAA's lawyers would target the Domain Name System that directs traffic across the internet.
The tactic was first proposed as part of the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) in 2011, but three years after the law failed in Congress, the MPAA has been looking for legal justification for the practice in existing law and working with ISPs like Comcast to examine how a system might work technically. If a takedown notice could blacklist a site from every available DNS provider, the URL would be effectively erased from the internet. No one's ever tried to issue a takedown notice like that, but this latest memo suggests the MPAA is looking into it as a potentially powerful new tool in the fight against piracy.
The tactic was first proposed as part of the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) in 2011, but three years after the law failed in Congress, the MPAA has been looking for legal justification for the practice in existing law and working with ISPs like Comcast to examine how a system might work technically. If a takedown notice could blacklist a site from every available DNS provider, the URL would be effectively erased from the internet. No one's ever tried to issue a takedown notice like that, but this latest memo suggests the MPAA is looking into it as a potentially powerful new tool in the fight against piracy.
Good for them. I hope their cartel takes over the world.
Lots of people prefer to ignore that the world's root DNS servers are controlled by US companies...
The MPAA et al feel they have the right to undermine every bit of technology to server their purposes. They want veto over all new technology to ensure that it aligns with their goals, and makes sure their rent seeking is entrenched in law.
Sony was more than willing to spread malware, and as a cartel these clowns have way too much sway over governments, and seem to think they can act with impunity.
Want the sure file way to the shitty oligarchy of the future? Keep letting these bastards call the shots.
I don't know who actually is behind this attack, but I'm starting to applaud them.
Sony and the other members of the MPAA are out of control, and pretty much deserve to be burned to the ground for the crap they do.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Good strategy. Go ahead with that plan and let us know how that turns out.
If they break DNS, we'll just move to a shadow system, whether based on hosts or just another flavor of DNS.
Fuck them.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
> and working with ISPs like Comcast to examine how a system might work technically
Yet another reason not to do business... well, you know.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
So how long until we scrap DNS for something both secure and P2P?
No one's ever tried to issue a takedown notice like that...
Really?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...
They haven't?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...
Tried this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...
Because, the last I checked...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R...
It was happening
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...
all the time...
This is totally unacceptable, IMO. I don't care if it's the MPAA suggesting it or the FBI or InterPol, or ??
There should be plenty of ways to deal with hosted content on someone's server without resorting to breaking core functionality of Internet services like DNS!
You could make hundreds of analogies (most of which would probably not be all that great), but to use the ever-popular automobile analogies for a minute? This is a little bit like trying to stop illegal sale of goods by a business by tearing out all of the street signs around them (in an effort to prevent people from finding the store)!
So then we all get to subscribe to $10-30/yr private DNSs which aren't poisoned, I presume. It's not like I'm using my ISP for my DNS.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Isn't the Internet over due for a DNS system that is not at the whim of corporate overloads? First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Esra Erimez
In Europe happens quite often that ISP are forced to remove "bad" sites (torrent, stream) from their DNS.
People just learned to not use their ISP DNS anymore.
It's shocking that an organization like the MPAA is afflicted with such hubris that they would consider such underhanded tactics. In other news, the sky is blue.
We'll make our own DNS!
With blackjack and hookers!
Can MPAA.org be removed?
Great idea, but I bet they will figure out a paid verified DNS registration that will prevent this. Better - it's there yet: TLS with those green bars!
Even though the Pirate Bay move to North Korea was a hoax, but if North Korea really wanted to exact revenge on the industry why wouldn't they take an approach that would really hurt them and actually host pirated content?
Esra Erimez
It's bad enough that companies like Verizon, in a effort to help us and provide better service, hijack 404 errors and redirect them to their tailored search results, now this. In light of how little vetting some of these take down notices seem to receive before the ban hammer falls, this is truly scary. Scary in that they think this is how to go about business. Like others have already alluded too, this is likely to at worst cause a minor bit of annoyance before a way to protect against this silliness is found.
I already override my ISP's advertised DNS settings to point to something that doesn't redirect to their advertising pages when I typo a URL. I can easily point it at something that doesn't listen to MPAA's bizarre demands.
And they have a better track record of enforcing the people's will than the supreme court at the moment when it comes to Sony.
So, instead of saying: "Hey Joe, check out vids.com", I'll say "Hey Joe, check out 74.238.38.132". Because that's somehow so much harder to do, especially in a link. Welcome to your HOSTS file.
Look at who runs that section of Sony, look at who runs Comcast, look at who finances the MPAA, RIAA, etc, look at who runs Hollywood, look at who lobbies "Net neutrality", piracy issues, and ME foreign policy, look at the finance industry and who the majority of leaders are there. look at who we let tell our stories.
Look at how important story telling is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Understand the fundamental nature of storytelling and the importance this aspect of humanity, and then look again at who we let tell our stories.
Just look, pay attention.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Would a distributed hash table system (like eMule used(uses?)) make a good DNS replacement?
DNS already *is* distributed. Don't you really mean something that's not hierarchal?
I'm not following you on the crypto currency framework thing. Can you elaborate?
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
This story reminds me of the wasp that landed on the thistle. One of them is going to get stung but I really don't care which. It's bad that anyone gets hacked but it it Sony after all.
Piracy will just go to dark nets...
Yeah yeah yeah. You keep forgetting who owns the wire.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
This would not really work. In practice, it would likely mean a return of Alternic system, with multiple roots - i.e., a dark DNS for the dark net, probably temporary DNS extensions for file sharing, etc.
Somewhere, I suspect Eugene Kashpureff is smiling.
DNS was created in 1984 to replace the old flat HOSTS.TXT system, at which time the file contained only "several thousand" entries, according to one source I found. Maintenance and distribution of the file was already becoming a problem by that point.
The oldest actual HOSTS.TXT file I found for download was from 1990, and contained about 9,200 lines. (No link; don't want to spam someone's Internet history server just to prove a point. Do your own Googling if you don't believe me.)
There are single data centers with more than a few thousand public-facing IPs in use.
As for this vague handwavy idea of a shadow domain name system, what's going to make that immune from the same sorts of attacks? There's this vague notion that if it's distributed and encrypted, it will be impossible to kill, but guess what? DNS is distributed and encrypted already.
For other types of distribution, what remedies at law exist?
For instance, if I start mailing pirated Blu-Ray disc all over the world, do they instruct the various shipping agents, postal agencies, and so forth to refuse to accept anything from me, and also to refuse to deliver to me? Can they do this without informing me? Do I have recourse if this also denies me lawful services?
If I merely pack and ship these discs for someone else, is there a fix in law to also deny me access to shipping methods?
Do they put me/us in jail? Do they have the right to go wherever I am in the world, arrest me, and imprison me for this? Would I be denied even the mail from the court informing me of this?
This seems to be another example of technology being used to accomplish what could not be otherwise done. Removing a domain from DNS sure does eliminate their ability to distribute illegally-derived content, but doing so surreptitiously seems to be nasty business.
Is this an expansion of enforcement actions that may not itself be legal?
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
They can compromise DNS all they want, but they can't prevent routing of packets from one numeric IP address to another numeric IP address.
If they were actually trying to mess with DNS then they should be prosecuted under hacking laws, because if you or I were to do this thing, that's what would happen to us.
Bastards.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
A huge number of people already barely use DNS. They go to places like "The Pirate Bay" by entering "The Pirate Bay" in the Google Search window, and following the first link or two that they find. So, if Google indexes 194.71.107.27 or there's a Wikipedia link to it (since, you know, that'd be newsworthy), the effect of a DNS ban has little impact on the original discovery of the site URL.
Some (stupid) ISP's already take care of this search mechanism... enter a bad URL, go right to a search page. Most browsers will also be more than happy to help out.
It'll break bookmarks, but once you know something exists, has value to you, and you know how to find it, it's nothing more than an inconvenience.
In other words, delisting doesn't work for longer than it takes a new URL to propagate.
Taking over the hostname would last a little longer, but news travels fast.
Log in or piss off.
Could be a fun idea if enough companies with their own DNS servers would redirect MPAA.org to a parody website instead.
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
Will you also be quoting the National Enquirer in your quest to demonize anyone questioning the MPAA and/or Sony's behavior?
Do you believe that vigilantism is always wrong? Robin Hood was criminal stealing from "rich" who used criminal means of gaining wealth, and the peasants he was giving money to should have lynched him on the spot? (I realize this one is a fable, but a well known one and high on moral fabric).
If you don't believe vigilantism is always wrong, where do you think the line should be? Big companies are fine to do anything they want, as long as they pay the Governments to get away with it? Do the Governments have to be the actual robbers? (see next)
For posterity, the MPAA and RIAA have already targeted domains though requests to Government agencies. In this case, the MPAA is specifically considering acting as a vigilante and bypassing the Government. Can you attack a vigilante as a vigilante? Seriously, provide a rational perspective instead of gossip rags and OPED pieces. If you can't base your opinion on reason, don't bother.
And lets take out the BS regarding the DPRK launching a massive attack on the US. If you spent a few minutes contemplating the logistics you would see that this is not valid.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
A dozen viable DNS lookup services spring up in the event of a takedown.
Somehow, I doubt that any country outside the USA is going to tolerate this nonsense for very long. Entertainment can be boycotted. Other networks can be created. If the MPAA is dumb enough to try this (which is likely, because, you know... entertainment industry), they will just hasten the creation of a new and better decentralized set of internets.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
It seems that the bipeds who once inhabited this planet had, at one time, developed a comprehensive worldwide networking system. They accomplished much through it, from exchange of all kinds of information to commercial transactions, education, and even personal communications.
But suddenly, one day, this useful system was destroyed. Apparently a small group of bipeds, which had enriched themselves by creating carefully distorted fictional representations of life and events, decided that the network might be slightly reducing the rate at which they amassed wealth. So they sabotaged it.
We really have no idea what kind of intelligence those bipeds had - if it was even intelligence as we know it.
I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
uhm, regular old dotted quads (ip addrs) work fine and cannot be 'taken down' since they are not lookup based but topology based.
and even with ip alias and redirects, a dotted quad can be just about as good as a dns name. better, in some ways, since it cant' be faked like a name can, and does not require another fetch for the name->ipaddr lookup.
...about the awesome library of stuff hosted at 127.0.0.1
Just spread the ip addresses, like in the old days. /etc/hosts for that. Almost like a bookmark...
In 1988, I used to know lots of IP addresses by heart. Though that will be a bit more difficult with IPv6.
But we have
I think they're referring to something like Namecoin.
Can't you just go directly to the IP Address? A system without dns and where people have the ability to get static ip addresses at home would be much more liberal than the current system.
207.99.133.7
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
If A breaks or gets broken, B will emerge to fill the void.
For reference, see content. When content for sale was broken past its usefulness by DRM, download pages popped up left and right where you could get it not only in better quality (no unskipable ads, no "always on" online connection for offline playing...), even the price was better!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Jon Postel. He's got the experience and people trust him.
Unfortunately, he left us awhile back to take on the task of running The Great Internet In The Sky.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
How should Comcast objectors living in Comcast territory cope with the 10 GB/mo cap of non-Comcast home Internet through the sat or cell company?
DNS is not needed to connect to the address of any offending node. This could only hurt legitimate uses of DNS. It will not shut them down.
Better we hop to the year 2015 and use more of this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...
I took a vacation from RIAA and MPAA entertainment purchases from 2000-2013, but it seems I need that vacation again. Thanks for the reminder.
Also, anyone not running a DNS server, you should. We also need a durable decentralized method of locating a server or more mobile content delevery methods.
-- Prepared at the direction of, or to be sent to Legal Counsel, in anticipation of litigation. Attorney Client Pri
To use TFA's illustration: "The address is removed from the phone book" ... Yes but the store is still there and open for business.
Those who really want the content will obtain the IP address and bookmark that....or put it in their hosts file. or publish an app that does this for non power users automatically.
If the content is there, it will be found.
It would be trivial to just use the IP address instead.
the DNS idea is stupid, but not surprisingly so, given the level of practice the Sony hack has disclosed.
I still disagree with your solution, but at least it applies to this topic. You should've posted with an ID instead of as A/C.
All they're going to be able to do is attack US DNS servers. But I can point my router at any DNS server in the world.
What is more, the entire DNS system can be bypassed with sufficiently detailed host files.
It sounds absurd but consider how cheap storage is these days? I could maintain a pretty comprehensive private DNS list on my own systems without burning that much HD space. What are we talking about here? Maybe a couple gigabytes? Map that into a fast database and you could literally point your computer to look up DNS entries locally.
Or if you prefer you could just have it look up blocked sites locally. Either way, the DNS pitch is counter productive. They're just going to encourage pirates to learn how to play with DNS.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
I will migrate to plain-text web pages, searchable via google
Here's the first one
slashdot.org 216.34.181.45
attack the DNS, eh? The Community objects. now we get to boycott EVERYTHING Sony, including your stupid Adam Sandler movies.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
The "I will remove your phone number from the phone book on the payphone at the end of the block and you will then cease to exist" mentality is truly laughable. I would say these fools need better experts but hey, who am to judge the comedy value of the overfunded clueless people of the world? The problem with MPSonyAA is while they may have more money, other people will always have more brains. Resistance is futile and greed is pointless.
Once this happens, the tenuous hold of the US on DNS would be broken.
I would expect the industry heavy weights would not take a lose of control of 'their' domains lightly.
I wonder what we could find if we did this to other studios, and their ancillary companies? But let's be careful about overreach. If we penetrated the shielding at Comcast, so many evil spirits could be released at once that the whole world could go Taliban.
Ah, so that's why my WHOIS searches don't work any more. Seriously though, what's the best WHOIS website?
I once prepared to give court evidence where police had framed a student of mine who was on remand in a jail I was teaching in. The case was simple because the police had "verballed" the guy in perfect English with the exception that "-ed" endings were left off verbs where they needed to be (LOL). The police dropped their case.
My guess is that the SONY hack 9/11 type threat is written by someone who has strong command of English but is pretending they don't. In particular it would be interesting to see if grammatical errors conform to those a Korean might make. Here it is:
"We will clearly show it to you at the very time and places “The Interview” be shown, including the premiere, how bitter fate those who seek fun in terror should be doomed to.
Soon all the world will see what an awful movie Sony Pictures Entertainment has made.
The world will be full of fear.
Remember the 11th of September 2001.
We recommend you to keep yourself distant from the places at that time.
(If your house is nearby, you’d better leave.)
Whatever comes in the coming days is called by the greed of Sony Pictures Entertainment.
All the world will denounce the SONY.
More to come"
work in progress
You assume the owners can actually see what's passing through their wires.
This signature is false.
If they want to and can't, they will just drop the packet. They can very easily block anything that is not in plain text. There goes your 'dark net'. And with their state protected monopolies there is nowhere for you to go until you can roll your own.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
They can very easily block anything that is not in plain text.
You can put whatever data you want inside a "plain text" message. Even under wartime conditions where all messages in and out are reviewed by actual humans, people still manage to get secrets through—and that approach doesn't scale. Any automated Internet censorship system (short of shutting down the Internet entirely) would leak like a sieve.
"The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
The internet needs a big threatening stick to cut the legacy cord of DNS and start the evolution to a decentralised system.
There are enough existing protocols to draw upon that contain conceptual components of a distributed DNS: Zero config DNS, Bittorrent etc.
And they can even, gasp!, used in hyperlinks!
These people are as greedy as they are stupid.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Here we have Sony trying to interfere with routing in order to accomplish censorship. That certainly won't backfire...
well this Sony hack sure has been a good thing for us so far. It is bringing a lot of things into the open/spotlight that we would otherwise not know of (unless it is too late perhaps, and the lobbyists work is done). Could it have been een inside job? It this the equivalent of snowden-nsa but for one big media company?
No wonder who ever did it doesn't want to step up, they would be trailed and sued to death, all the while Sony just continues whatever they've been doing without consequences (the impact of this will be minimal, just as all other crooked things they did, didn't have any impact).
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
So Sony is holier than thou? Probably not. Does anyone remember the CD Player Rootkit? http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Son...
TV-MA - the Beginning: "Ward, don't you think you were a little hard on the Beaver last night?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
If they these sites had a fixed IP.. wouldn't that solve the problem? Maybe they could set up their own DNS server. Also how would it affect sevices like freeDNS?