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Colorado Sued By Neighboring States Over Legal Pot

SternisheFan notes that Nebraska and Oklahoma are suing Colorado over marijuana legalization. The attorneys general of Nebraska and Oklahoma sued Colorado in the U.S. Supreme Court on Thursday, arguing state-legalized marijuana from Colorado is improperly spilling across state lines. The suit invokes the federal government's right to regulate both drugs and interstate commerce, and says Colorado's decision to legalize marijuana has been "particularly burdensome" to police agencies on the other side of the state line. In June, USA TODAY highlighted the flow of marijuana from Colorado into small towns across Nebraska: felony drug arrests in Chappell, Neb., just 7 miles north of the Colorado border have skyrocketed 400% in three years. "In passing and enforcing Amendment 64, the state of Colorado has created a dangerous gap in the federal drug control system enacted by the United States Congress. Marijuana flows from this gap into neighboring states, undermining plaintiff states' own marijuana bans, draining their treasuries, and placing stress on their criminal justice systems," says the lawsuit. "The Constitution and the federal anti-drug laws do not permit the development of a patchwork of state and local pro-drug policies and licensed distribution schemes throughout the country which conflict with federal laws."

297 of 484 comments (clear)

  1. Simple answer... by Dins · · Score: 5, Interesting

    All they need to do is legalize it themselves.

    1. Re:Simple answer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And give up all those extra federal enforcement dollars they hope to get as a result of this suit. You're hopped up crazy, man.

    2. Re:Simple answer... by Guy+From+V · · Score: 3, Interesting

      By mot doing so, Congress makes itself look weak..er. I have heard rumors in the county next to me in OR (I'm in WA) that last year there were a a lot of instances of jury nullification brought up in some marijuana cases. They either never carried all the jury or judges lied and intimidated the jury beforehand or after...illegally...but still effective. Not too long after that Measure 91 passed. Even just the rumor is an indication of a shifting awareness, go with the flow, D.C. and not look any wimpier than you already do.

    3. Re: Simple answer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Legalize itnand tax it and make up the difference many times over

    4. Re: Simple answer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Pot doesn't kill. Only the ignorant/misinformed believe it does.

    5. Re:Simple answer... by ganjadude · · Score: 5, Insightful

      or they could you know, legalize and tax, making money legit instead of stealing it to use against good americans

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    6. Re: Simple answer... by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      i know, I injected 5 joints yesterday, now im gay!

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    7. Re: Simple answer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Nobody said you have to smoke it or that smoking is even a good way to ingest it.

    8. Re: Simple answer... by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 4, Informative

      And taxes are good, right? Not like that's stealing or anything.

      And it all goes to a good cause.

      Yeah, because shit like highways, water and land management, law enforcement and public infrastructure is self-sustained, for free, with nothing but bunnies' farts and pixie dust magically coming out of Tinkerbell's ass.

    9. Re: Simple answer... by Bigbutt · · Score: 4, Funny

      Has Tinkerbell been fucking bunnies [b]again[/b]! Honestly you'd think she'd learn after last time. (Bunnies with wings :rolleyes: )

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
    10. Re:Simple answer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Which will be offset by not having to bust and jail stoners from Colorado, you nitwit.

    11. Re: Simple answer... by Dunbal · · Score: 2, Informative

      Hahahahahaha you think tax money goes to pay for water and highways. No. Tax money goes to pay for stuff like this, this and this.

      Haven't you noticed that America's infrastructure is crumbling? Now why is that?

      Giving more tax income for the government is no better than giving a crackhead more money. It has been a long time since the US government has made effective use of its money. Besides - all tax revenue is barely enough to cover the INTEREST on the deficit (even at these low low rates) - let alone the deficit. A few hundred million here or there will make zero difference to the ocean of pork.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    12. Re: Simple answer... by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 2

      Oh go eat a taco, you pissy sarcastic twat.

      I bow to your excellent display of 3rd grade come backs.

    13. Re: Simple answer... by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      if the choices are taxes or robbing americans and putting them behind bars, yes

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    14. Re: Simple answer... by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hahahahahaha you think tax money goes to pay for water and highways. No. Tax money goes to pay for stuff like this, this and this.

      I know that *some* (not all) taxes go to stuff like that. If you are claiming that NO TAXES go ever to public infrastructure, then you are going to have to do better than just pointing at counter examples.

      I never claimed that ALL TAXES go to public infrastructure. I claim that taxes PAY for infrastructure. That claim does not says "ALL TAXES go to infrastructure" or that "infrastructure gets funded PROPERLY by ALL TAXES."

      As a result, your reply, by logical necessity, is misplaced and inadequate. Unless you can prove anywhere that I've said anything that warrants your reply, you have to admit, if you are honest, that you are simply building a strawman.

      Haven't you noticed that America's infrastructure is crumbling?

      Yes.

      Now why is that?

      Because its maintenance and expansion is not funded properly. This is no proof that taxes never go there. It is certainly not proof of the following statement:

      And taxes are good, right? Not like that's stealing or anything.

      People shouldn't expect not to be challenged when they post asinine shit like that without a context or at least some thought behind it.

      Giving more tax income for the government is no better than giving a crackhead more money.

      There is not one government. There is federal government, there is state and local government, and depending on the region, tribal government. Each operates differently, with different levels of efficiency and honesty (or lack thereof) when it comes to collecting taxes (and putting them to good use.)

      In this specific context, this thread, taxation is being referred to state and local taxation. It is not accurate to describe taxation and public spending in such over-generalized terms. It is great from the point of rhetoric.

      It has been a long time since the US government has made effective use of its money. Besides - all tax revenue is barely enough to cover the INTEREST on the deficit (even at these low low rates) - let alone the deficit. A few hundred million here or there will make zero difference to the ocean of pork.

      Here you are properly elaborating a good point (finally). It still does not explain what states are to do with pot legalization, the war on drugs, state rights over their own taxation, their relation on that topic to the federal state, the nature of interstate commerce, free passage of citizens from one state to another to purchase an item and the arbiter role of federal government in such activities.

      There are the goddamned subjects of this threat. Alcohol is already taxed with different sale taxes across the states, so logically legalization of pot by a state will imply its taxation by said state.

      Inefficiency of (or even corruption during) taxation of an item by a government, be it local, state or federal, does not preclude a government, in particular a state government from exercising that sovereign power. If you oppose a state from taxing pot as a condition for legalization, you are going to have to do better than saying "taxation is bad or badly done."

    15. Re:Simple answer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Small government" conservatives will never go for such madness. How dare you suggest the government get out of people's lives!!

    16. Re: Simple answer... by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      :)

      Grassyass, moochachoes

      Oh bilingual, how cute. I see a bright future ahead of you. Here, have a cookie.

    17. Re:Simple answer... by TheCarp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But if 100g or less is legal, why is 101g illegal? What is the purpose of such a law?
      What do you actually expect it is protecting us from?

      Do you feel some responsibility to violent gangs like....we created them with bad laws, and now we have to nurture them? Why do you not want legal production in the daylight where product can be weighed and inspected. Where people who defraud their customers or violent thugs who would prey on honest businessmen and their wares can be brought to justice instead of left out in the cold to the wolves....over what?

      Seriously....what the fuck justifies arrest and incarceration over pot? What justifies AT ALL interfering with the lives of consenting adults over this flower? I really want to know because in 20 years of being a pot smoker the worst negatives I have seen have all been the result of these stupid laws.

      Honest people being robbed and held at gunpoint with no recourse, nobody to call. Dishonest dealers who rip off their customers. Families torn apart, jobs lost, all over... some mad obsession with moralistic laws against what is, at worst, a minor vice.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    18. Re: Simple answer... by Talderas · · Score: 1

      Despite being called a boner, the penis has no bones or joints.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    19. Re: Simple answer... by frig.neutron · · Score: 1

      Could have been an ok reply, if not for that homophobic slur at the end...

    20. Re:Simple answer... by gnasher719 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      But if 100g or less is legal, why is 101g illegal? What is the purpose of such a law?

      That's not unusual at all. It draws a clear line between what is allowed and what is not. Would you prefer vague guidelines like "for private consumption" vs. "for sale", or "small amounts"? Having strict and easily to check guidelines also avoids wasting time on law enforcements and court costs. 100 grams, and the police lets you go. 101 grams, the hold you and take you to court. Whether you're guilty or innocent, it is _clear_ which one, and that is a good thing

      Obviously you shouldn't try to go to the extreme limit of what's allowed. If your scales say you have 100 grams, but your scales are off and you really have 101, that's no excuse. Just stay below 90 and you're fine.

    21. Re: Simple answer... by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      That's what Colorado did.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    22. Re: Simple answer... by lq_x_pl · · Score: 1

      The anonymous internet badasses are out in force, this morning.

      --
      An internal system operation returned the error "The operation completed successfully.".
    23. Re:Simple answer... by krept · · Score: 1

      Do you mean the D.C. that voted to legalize and were told to shove off by the congress critters from other states that the rest of the country elected?

      --
      None of us know everything. Therefore we're all naïve.
    24. Re:Simple answer... by barbariccow · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But if 100g or less is legal, why is 101g illegal? What is the purpose of such a law?

      That's not unusual at all. It draws a clear line between what is allowed and what is not. Would you prefer vague guidelines like "for private consumption" vs. "for sale", or "small amounts"? Having strict and easily to check guidelines also avoids wasting time on law enforcements and court costs. 100 grams, and the police lets you go. 101 grams, the hold you and take you to court. Whether you're guilty or innocent, it is _clear_ which one, and that is a good thing Obviously you shouldn't try to go to the extreme limit of what's allowed. If your scales say you have 100 grams, but your scales are off and you really have 101, that's no excuse. Just stay below 90 and you're fine.

      I think parent was questioning why any limit at all, as in what makes possessing 101g turn you into an evil anti-american, versus an upstanding 99g toter.

    25. Re:Simple answer... by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Actually, what they need to do is mandate all substances at a federal level, rather than state level, because any difference in policies between adjoining states will always carry this problem, so there's nothing special about marijuana in this regard... unless, of course, they want to institute state border checks similar to what they already have in place between the US and Canada.

    26. Re:Simple answer... by NatasRevol · · Score: 2

      Perfect. Colorado will just let them free BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING ILLEGAL THERE.

      Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    27. Re: Simple answer... by judoguy · · Score: 2

      I'm not against allowing adults to shoot, snort, sniff, smoke, drink or otherwise wallow in whatever they can want BUT...

      Coming from a state where moonshine has been a long time pasttime, I can tell you that if push comes to shove, you'd rather deal with the DEA than the BATF.

      Not just flaming here, but remember Waco? That whole thing was initiated over alleged tax issues. That's really what the permits are in the end. Tax issues. Don't forget that the BATF is the enforcement arm of Treasury. They don't fuck around.

      --
      Peace is easy to achieve, just surrender. Liberty is much harder get/keep.
    28. Re: Simple answer... by nbauman · · Score: 1

      Inhaling any smoke into your lungs can cause damage and long term health problems. Chronic cough, emphysema, and even lung cancer are all possible outcomes of smoking pot. it also raises your blood pressure and your heart rate, similar to smoking tobacco.

      only the ignorant or misinformed deny it has any ill health effects.
      its not that different from smoking tobacco.

      It is ironic that somebody who posts this much ignorance and misinformation can accuse others of being ignorant and misinformed.

      Even Nora Volkow, the head of NIDA, in her review article in the New England Journal of Medicine trying to defend the war on drugs, doesn't go that far. http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/1...

      Just because tobacco causes chronic cough, emphysema, and lung cancer, that doesn't mean that anything you smoke has the same effect. That's like sympathetic magic.

      Actually, when medical researchers tried to prove that cannabis caused those things, they failed. When you look at people who smoke marijuana, and compare them to people who don't, the marijuana smokers have no more chronic cough, empysema and lung cancer than non-marijuana smokers.

      Look at it this way: If I chew tobacco, I'm more likely to get cancer of the jaw. But I can chew all the carrots I want, and I won't be more likely to get cancer. Obviously, there's something in tobacco that isn't found in carrots that causes cancer. And there's something in tobacco that isn't found in marijuana that causes cancer.

    29. Re: Simple answer... by nbauman · · Score: 1

      Despite being called a boner, the penis has no bones or joints.

      Only in humans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      And don't get me started on ducks.

    30. Re: Simple answer... by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      You wrote that as if there is a difference.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    31. Re:Simple answer... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Why does jay-walking turn you into an evil anti-american, versus walking ten feet down the road to use the crosswalk?

      It doesn't, and the law is mostly ignored*, unless your flouting of it is causing problems. For example that guy that's always hanging out near the high school with 10lbs of weed in his pack is probably not a being of sweetness and light, but if he's slimy _enough_ it will be difficult to catch him in the act. Considering the ambivalence and outright dread of legalization among a not-insignificant portion of the population, it is reasonable to give the authorities the power to preemptively intervene in the most problematic potential side effects, forseen and unforseen.

      And yeah, I know that was a literal "think of a children" argument there, but I think this is one of the times when that is a legitimate concern. I don't know about you, but I certainly remember such people from my high school days, including cases of kids ending up dead because of (presumed) business disagreements.

      * Of course the problem with any law often ignored is that the authorities can also decide to use it to harass people for ...unauthorized reasons. It would be nice if there was a way to explicitly state that certain laws exist are intended to be applied with discretion, and give them additional safeguards against abuse.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    32. Re: Simple answer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      YES, you fucking MORON, TAXES SERVE A PUBLIC GOOD. The fact that you cannot understand that taxation serves a PUBLIC GOOD shows that you have the intelligence of a turnip.

      Go crawl back under your libertarian rock and jack off while you oil your extensive collection of AR-15s.

    33. Re:Simple answer... by scuzzlebutt · · Score: 1

      And technically, a cop can pull you over for going 1MPH over the speed limit, but they don't because they have some discretion in enforcing the law. There is always wiggle room. Now, if the limit were 100g and you were carrying 200g, for example, then they have a stronger case against you and they're more likely to get a conviction.

      --
      In C++, your friends can see your privates.
    34. Re: Simple answer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Don't forget that the BATF is the enforcement arm of Treasury.

      FYI: BATFE (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives) transferred to the Department of Justice in 2003.

    35. Re: Simple answer... by kilfarsnar · · Score: 1

      Inhaling any smoke into your lungs can cause damage and long term health problems. Chronic cough, emphysema, and even lung cancer are all possible outcomes of smoking pot. it also raises your blood pressure and your heart rate, similar to smoking tobacco.

      only the ignorant or misinformed deny it has any ill health effects. its not that different from smoking tobacco.

      Pot smoke has not been shown to cause cancer or emphysema. Even if there are other health effects, I'm not sure how we are helping people by putting them in jail for doing it. The message seems to be, "Don't do this harmful thing, or we'll do this other harmful thing to you."

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    36. Re: Simple answer... by anagama · · Score: 1

      Your tax dollars at work:

      • 13 years of continuous war
      • Paying off Wallstreet and banksters to trash the economy
      • Massive universal surveillance
      • Importing cheap labor and exporting jobs
      • The most awesome largest prison industry on the planet
      • Mine resistant vehicles for rural sheriff's departments
      • Forced subsidization of the for-profit health insurance industry
      • Monopolies for Comcast (and its ilk)
      • And oh yeah, maybe, if there is anything left over, and after they fall into rivers, bridge repairs

      The fact that a small percentage of the tax dollars go to something useful, is like saying that Jeffry Dahmer was nice to puppies so we should forget everything else about him.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    37. Re:Simple answer... by Pubstar · · Score: 1

      Most states have this rule already. The limit it's 27g (1oz) in places where weed is legal.

    38. Re:Simple answer... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Why does jay-walking turn you into an evil anti-american, versus walking ten feet down the road to use the crosswalk?

      Why indeed? Jay-walking is another of those insane laws. We get around fine without jaywalking laws in the UK. It's much more pedestrian friendly for a start.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    39. Re:Simple answer... by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

      Because there are obvious safety issues with crossing a road outside a crosswalk, whereas you'd be hard-pressed to come up with a similar rationale for carrying ±2 grams of pot.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    40. Re: Simple answer... by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      And taxes are good, right?

      Yes, they are. Glad you realise it.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    41. Re: Simple answer... by sexconker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The money is the icing on the cake.
      The militarized enforcement and unchecked abuse of power against the populace is the real goal.

    42. Re:Simple answer... by praxis · · Score: 1

      Because there are obvious safety issues with crossing a road outside a crosswalk, whereas you'd be hard-pressed to come up with a similar rationale for carrying ±2 grams of pot.

      It, again comes does to removing judgment and making clear lines. First, the premises of both laws: crossing the street can be done safely or unsafely; smoking pot by yourself is not harming anyone but providing pot for others could be a harm to others. Now, how to enforce them without making vague rules: lines painted where it's permitted; a mass measure to determine how much is more than for oneself.

      Of course, there are times when one can cross safely outside the lines and there are times when one wants to smoke a lot more, but if we make laws to encourage one type of behavior it's better for those laws to be clear. Lines and numbers do that; that's why there's a number.

      One can disagree with the number, but that's how limits work. Same goes for BAC or number of times you enter the country on a visa or amount of money you can carry across a border without declaring it or value of a gift you can give without it being taxable income or so many other things.

    43. Re:Simple answer... by wormparoxysm · · Score: 1

      80% of the +5 comments for this article are me2s for whichever position. now i dnrtfa, but i did give a speech on legalization in 1994. during my research of the opposition's view point, i discovered that legalization had failed previously due to disruption of border areas, still under prohibition. that is to say, legalization had occurred and then was rescinded. so i approve of the lawsuit since it will direct 1st attention, and 2ndly research to determine more information.

    44. Re:Simple answer... by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      Actually, what they need to do is mandate all substances at a federal level, rather than state level, because any difference in policies between adjoining states will always carry this problem, so there's nothing special about marijuana in this regard... unless, of course, they want to institute state border checks similar to what they already have in place between the US and Canada.

      What you're speaking of is not a federated republic; the United *States* would have to change its name, as making substance intake a federal issue removes significant power of statehood.

      Of course, the DEA and Congress are already at the state level, which means they're already mandating all substances at a federal level -- they just (wisely) aren't enforcing these mandates when individual states choose to ignore them.

    45. Re:Simple answer... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      He have jaywalking laws in the US because car drivers are considered more important than pedestrians.

    46. Re: Simple answer... by tepples · · Score: 1

      Has Tinkerbell been fucking bunnies again!
      [...]
      [John]

      That depends, John. Have you been doing "dust" to stay young?

    47. Re: Simple answer... by scarboni888 · · Score: 1

      CORRECT!!!

    48. Re: Simple answer... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      The whole thing was initiated because Clinton needed a media distraction. It was orchestrated for TV and blew up in their faces.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    49. Re:Simple answer... by mark-t · · Score: 1

      If matters of a particular substance is important enough to a state that it wants to sue an adjacent one simply because it has looser restrictions on that substance, then it seems to me that the only alternative is to either tighten borders between those states, which would completely change what the United States actually is, as you pointed out, or else the substance needs to be regulated federally, and enforced against states that don't adhere to those regulations. As you said, however, that would remove a significant power of statehood. But threatening to sue an adjoining state simply because it has different practices which happen to spill over simply as a result of the people commuting or traveling between them is just as much of a threat against that same power of statehood as federal regulation would be.

    50. Re: Simple answer... by firesyde424 · · Score: 2

      I keep hearing this argument. Our infrastructure is crap and getting worse. And yet, when the roads need repaved, somehow they are being repaved. When a storm comes through and knocks down utility lines, someone comes and repairs them. When some idiot digs up a fiber optic line and cuts it, otherwise known as backhoe fade, someone repairs that too.

      Statements like this make it sound like our roads, electrical lines, and telecommunications are on the verge of collapse due to neglect. Our did you mean some other kind of infrastructure?

    51. Re:Simple answer... by lars_stefan_axelsson · · Score: 1

      Because there are obvious safety issues with crossing a road outside a crosswalk,

      Yepp. All research points to it being safer to much safer, to cross outside a "crosswalk". That's why (here in Sweden) we've started to remove them, and refuse to put them in in more difficult traffic situations. It has already had a measurable positive impact on pedestrian safety.

      Why you'd want a jay walking law is completely beyond me...

      --
      Stefan Axelsson
    52. Re:Simple answer... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Sure ±2 grams isn't going to make any real difference, but if you're going to put a limit into law you have to draw the line somewhere, and border cases will always be ridiculous. I doubt anyone will be arrested for carrying 101g unless they really piss off the cop.

      It's not like there's all that many legitimate reasons to be walking around with over 3.5 oz of weed - that's probably the intoxication equivalent of many gallons of vodka (insofar as you can compare intoxication between different drugs). Granted, we have no similar limits for alcohol, but again: we're cautiously re-legalizing a drug that's been the target of a massive demonization campaign for a couple generations now. Plus weed is far more convenient to resell than alcohol, and far more profitable than tobacco. We're not going to be able to keep it out of the hands of kids, but we can at least make it more challenging and expensive, and crack down on the bootleggers.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    53. Re:Simple answer... by TimboJones · · Score: 1

      No he means the state WA that neighbors the state OR.

    54. Re: Simple answer... by __Paul__ · · Score: 1

      Haven't you noticed that America's infrastructure is crumbling? Now why is that?

      It's crumbling because you don't pay enough tax. Stop being selfish, pay decent taxes (45-49% for high-earners would be a start) and then you can have decent facilities, transport and health-care.

      --
      worldmobilenet.com -- World Prepaid Wireless Internet plans
    55. Re:Simple answer... by krept · · Score: 1

      He said D.C.

      --
      None of us know everything. Therefore we're all naïve.
    56. Re: Simple answer... by anagama · · Score: 1

      I won't vote for either the GOP or DNC as a protest vote. I get that it is a protest vote and my candidates (I'd vote for Satan if he ran as a third party candidate, barring any 3d party candidates, I vote for my cat) and that my candidate won't win. The best hope I have is to be perceived as a spoiler which _might_ shift a party my direction.

      The simple fact is, the GOP and DNC totally agree on all of those issues. We basically have two Republican parties: the one in favor of gay marriage and abortion, and the one against. But if I expect that voting for GOP or DNC candidates will change anything I mentioned above, I would be deluded.

      So in fact, we do have people to blame other than ourselves. We can blame the people that own the parties and we can blame the parties for a lack of actual choice. And I suppose we can blame "ourselves" -- or at least those who affiliate with either party -- for thinking there is one ioata of difference between the parties.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    57. Re: Simple answer... by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      You think taxation and theft are different? One takes from you for the benefit of another, against your specific will, and on penalty of death. The other takes from you, well, you get it yet?

      Or perhaps you not only accept that you pay taxes that go towards what you find abhorrent, but you agreed that failure to pay can ultimately be punished by death.

      In America, we have killed for selling cigarettes without paying the proper tax. Cigarettes.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    58. Re: Simple answer... by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      Not to mention keeping a truly ridiculous several percent of the population in unproductive incarceration.

      At least most of them are niggers, who might otherwise get uppity and out of their place. Boy!

      [racist thug stereotypes rolled out for emphasis of the Reason That Dare Not Speak It's Name.]

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    59. Re:Simple answer... by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      I didn't ask if the form of he law was unusual. I asked what supporters of such a law what they expect it would accomplish, and what they imagine they are protecting us from.

      It seems pretty clear to me the ONLY effect such a law will have is to continue a policy of allowing gangs to flousrish and creating black markets for them. I see no benefti at all to such a law in the first place and no danger that it protects anyone from.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    60. Re:Simple answer... by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      I am not questioning the concept of lines, I am asking why this line even needs to be drawn.

      Don't you think that before drawing lines there should be a reason? I happen to think so. Wht the fuck justifies these laws? I see no more reason to arrest a person with 100 lbs of pot than to arrest a person with a cup of coffee. I see these laws doing little more than creating black markets for no benefit.

      Drug laws have not even been shown to reduce drug use, if they don't do that, then what the fuck point do they even have? If they don't reduce use, then isn't having them drive people to worst drugs, to more underground production....bad. If they can't even do the ONE good thing they intended?

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    61. Re:Simple answer... by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Well, then they'll just roll it up & smoke it.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    62. Re: Simple answer... by Shortguy881 · · Score: 1

      What roads do you drive on? Ever since I've been driving, everywhere I go the roads are terrible; they are riddled with pot holes and, in many instances, are more quick patch asphalt than road. In a truck built for off-roading you may not notice, but in a small car on the interstate at 60-70 miles an hour it can crack your suspension. In many cities, the roads might as well not be paved, they are so full of patches. I've driven over smoother dirt roads.

      Telecom companies fix phone, cable and fiber lines. You pay for that by paying for cable/phone/internet, not through taxes. Taxes for the telcom industry, like the Universal Service Fund, go to creating new lines, upgrading speeds and lowering costs, not repair.

      Power lines are the same for the power company.

      --
      Brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants.
    63. Re: Simple answer... by Shortguy881 · · Score: 1

      No its because we spend it on the wrong things.

      discretionary spending, This is 29% of all spending: https://static.nationalpriorit...

      mandatory spending This is 65% of all spending: https://static.nationalpriorit...

      A tiny, tiny bit of our spending goes to infrastructure. Most is wasted on areas with a less then 1:1 return on investment.

      --
      Brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants.
  2. How about ignoring it? by bucket_brigade · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How about not enforcing the laws there since doing otherwise is a stupid waste of law enforcement time and resources? I can't believe anyone can be stupid enough to think cannabis is dangerous enough to merit criminalization. You have to be basically live up your own ass for decades to come up with that opinion.

    1. Re:How about ignoring it? by Fjandr · · Score: 3, Funny

      You are obviously a part of Satan's cabal, attempting to spread his grip to God-fearing communities through the insanity-inducing devil-weed known as marajawana...

    2. Re:How about ignoring it? by david_bonn · · Score: 3, Informative

      How about not enforcing the laws there since doing otherwise is a stupid waste of law enforcement time and resources? I can't believe anyone can be stupid enough to think cannabis is dangerous enough to merit criminalization. You have to be basically live up your own ass for decades to come up with that opinion.

      There are lots of examples of this in action. Many states have laws against adultery, cohabitation, and consensual oral sex. Yet when was the last time someone got a felony rap for carpet munching?

      On a even less serious note, many states have ridiculous laws which were put on the books back during the Jurassic period of American jurisprudence. So, as an example, in Washington state it is illegal to sell bedding or meat on a Sunday. You will recall the wave of busts against Bed Bath and Beyond, Pottery Barn, and Safeway. Yeah, right...

    3. Re:How about ignoring it? by sribe · · Score: 2

      Actually, pot has more harmful chemicals in the smoke you inhale than cigarettes do. And since the goal of smoking pot is to hold the smoke in for longer, it makes it worse.

      Show me anybody in the world who smokes 40-60 marijuana cigarettes per day.

    4. Re:How about ignoring it? by Ottibus · · Score: 2

      I can't believe anyone can be stupid enough to think cannabis is dangerous enough to merit criminalization.

      What you can or cannot believe isn't important, the truth is that canabis can have a devastating effect on the developing teenage mind. Even if you don't consider that enough to warrant criminalization, that does not justify insulting those of us who do.

    5. Re:How about ignoring it? by Meneth · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm sorry to say your belief in people's lack of stupidity is flawed.

    6. Re:How about ignoring it? by Killer+Instinct · · Score: 2

      Care to cite any references, or you just prefer speaking out yer ass..

      --
      #include bier;
    7. Re:How about ignoring it? by flink · · Score: 2

      I can't believe anyone can be stupid enough to think cannabis is dangerous enough to merit criminalization.

      What you can or cannot believe isn't important, the truth is that cannabis can have a devastating effect on the developing teenage mind. Even if you don't consider that enough to warrant criminalization, that does not justify insulting those of us who do.

      By that measure, so is alcohol, or any number of other drugs that are sold over the counter. Yes it should be age restricted, but the point is that it is not any more dangerous than plenty of other substances that are legal. It's certainly less dangerous than cigarettes.

    8. Re:How about ignoring it? by HangingChad · · Score: 1

      I can't believe anyone can be stupid enough to think cannabis is dangerous enough to merit criminalization.

      Not only that but to then turn around and whine about the neighboring state, which adopted a smarter policy, making your life difficult. That's not just being stupid, it's being stupid and a big whiny cry baby

      --
      That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    9. Re:How about ignoring it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Challenge accepted!

    10. Re:How about ignoring it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Show me anybody in the world who smokes 40-60 marijuana cigarettes per day.

      Bob Marley, Snoop Lion, Cheech Marin, Tommy Chong...

    11. Re:How about ignoring it? by barbariccow · · Score: 1

      Yes it should be age restricted

      Right, because the government should determine a fixed line representing when you are mature enough to make your own decisions!

    12. Re:How about ignoring it? by chihowa · · Score: 2

      Are you serious? Most of the felony cases prosecuted are done so by states. Most of the felonies that you can name are state laws.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    13. Re:How about ignoring it? by boristdog · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I remember this Nancy Reagan talking point. Proved to be 100% bullshit.

      Look, I believed all the BS I was taught in my childhood as well. I believed it until I was in my late 40's. Then I finally tried the devil weed.
      My life has improved greatly since I became a regular "pothead" at age 48 ( I'm now 51). I'm happier, I sleep better, I get more things done, I'm a nicer person. I smoke weed almost every evening after work.

      You should try it.

    14. Re:How about ignoring it? by boristdog · · Score: 1

      I remember this Nancy Reagan talking point. Proved to be 100% bullshit.

      Look, I believed all the BS I was taught in my childhood as well. I believed it until I was in my late 40's. Then I finally tried the devil weed.
      My life has improved greatly since I became a regular "pothead" at age 48 ( I'm now 51). I'm happier, I sleep better, I get more things done, I'm a nicer person. I smoke weed almost every evening after work.

      You should try it.

    15. Re:How about ignoring it? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      When was the last time anybody got a "felony rap" for a state law?

      Umm, you are aware that MURDER is a State crime, not a Federal one, right?

      As is kidnapping, assault, robbery, well, pretty much everything not related to taxes or committed on a Federal Reservation (military base, that sort of thing)....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    16. Re:How about ignoring it? by Sperbels · · Score: 1

      What you can or cannot believe isn't important, the truth is that canabis can have a devastating effect on the developing teenage mind.

      Then legalizing and age restricting it will probably make it harder to acquire. As I recall, when I was in highschool in the early 90's--with the "War on Drugs" in full force--it was far easier to acquire pot, LSD, and cocaine than it was to get beer. Now that's just sad.

    17. Re:How about ignoring it? by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Snoop Dogg, for starters. Shit, last time I got a chance to hang, we nailed about 80 blunts in a day. Boys on the floor knocked the fuck out while us champs are still puffin.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    18. Re:How about ignoring it? by judoguy · · Score: 1
      It's a Bad Idea to have cops/building inspectors/government functionary decide who to screw whenever they feel like it. Far better to just have fewer stupid laws. I know, there are always boundary situations, but fewer stupid laws is the best route to take.

      What we have now is a situation where so many things are illegal no one can keep up. Then TPTB can simply prosecute the desired subgroup and leave their supporters/funders alone. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

      --
      Peace is easy to achieve, just surrender. Liberty is much harder get/keep.
    19. Re:How about ignoring it? by nbauman · · Score: 1

      I can't believe anyone can be stupid enough to think cannabis is dangerous enough to merit criminalization.

      What you can or cannot believe isn't important, the truth is that canabis can have a devastating effect on the developing teenage mind. Even if you don't consider that enough to warrant criminalization, that does not justify insulting those of us who do.

      I wonder how you arrive at that "truth". Even the arch-enemy of cannabis, Nora Volkow, head of NIDA, admits that they can't prove it because association is not causation. http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/1... Or at least that's what she was forced to admit when the reviewers at the New England Journal of Medicine insisted she back everything up with published research.

    20. Re:How about ignoring it? by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      I see it does have side effects though.... ;)

    21. Re:How about ignoring it? by guises · · Score: 2

      The first part is true - marijuana has more carcinogens than tobacco does. The fact that a marijuana smoker smokes far less in quantity than a tobacco smoker makes a much bigger difference though. There's was also a suggestion, at one point, that THC might slow the growth of tumors.

      So that's certainly something, but absolutely not 100% bullshit. "Mostly bullshit," perhaps.

    22. Re:How about ignoring it? by ITRambo · · Score: 1

      I agree with you. Pot is not dangerous and should be legal everywhere. It is pricey though, unless you grow your own. Don't smoke and drive kids.

    23. Re:How about ignoring it? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Carpet munching is protected by the constitution?

    24. Re:How about ignoring it? by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      9th & 10th Amendments. Unless it's a power granted to the Federal Government, or reserved by a State, it's a right retained by the people.

      Unfortunately, the Supreme Court has ruled that even the most tenuous, indirect link to interstate commerce creates Federal jurisdiction, which means only those rights specifically enumerated are actually protected in their eyes.

    25. Re:How about ignoring it? by gatkinso · · Score: 1

      Legal != uncontrolled. Apply a minimum age, so kids can ignore it the same way they ignore the minimum age laws for alcohol.

      --
      I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
    26. Re:How about ignoring it? by Ottibus · · Score: 1

      I can't believe anyone can be stupid enough to think cannabis is dangerous enough to merit criminalization.

      What you can or cannot believe isn't important, the truth is that canabis can have a devastating effect on the developing teenage mind. Even if you don't consider that enough to warrant criminalization, that does not justify insulting those of us who do.

      I wonder how you arrive at that "truth".

      Simple, I saw it happen to someone close to me.

      Even the arch-enemy of cannabis, Nora Volkow, head of NIDA, admits that they can't prove it because association is not causation.

      Unfortunately you can't ethically perform the experiments that would prove this in the way that you would like. The fact is that a lot of medical evidence comes from looking at the results of long-term population studies which can show correlation but can never prove causation.

    27. Re:How about ignoring it? by nbauman · · Score: 1

      This is known as anecdotal evidence, and a datapoint of 1. It's a fallacious argument, since you can use it to prove anything.

      People have lots of habits, and people wind up in devastating situations. Sometimes they are the same people. You could substitute anything for "cannabis," and (falsely) draw the same conclusions -- comic books, the Internet, teenage sex, masturbation, TV, rock 'n roll, negroes, Mexicans, the military, and religion, were all blamed for having devastating effects on teenagers. If I had somebody close to me who was religious, and turned into a schizophrenic, can I therefore conclude that religion causes schizophrenia?

      Conversely, when I was in college, some of the most successful students, including the valedictorians, were heavy users of marijuana (and rock 'n roll). So obiously many people escape the evil effects of marijuana, and if I use your logic of anecdotal evidence it caused their success.

      This person close to you might have had just as much of a decline without cannabis. How do you know he wouldn't have? Lots of people with marijuana were very successful, and lots of people without marijuana turned out terribly.

      People claim all the time that you can't use randomized, controlled trials on marijuana, but we've done similar trials many times in the past. (When we finally did a RCT with estrogen replacement therapy, it turned out that ERT was a major cause of breast cancer.)

      If in the 1980s, when the highly suggestive evidence of the benefits of marijuana started to appear, we had started RCTs of marijuana for conditions like AIDS wasting syndrome and epilepsy, we incidentally would have had data on the adverse effects of marijuana, and we'd know whether it ever has these devastating consequences that you claim.

      But instead the DEA refused to allow studies even from legitimate, respected scientists.

      You can debate marijuana all you want, and there may well be some rare or minor adverse effects, but the DEA and other prohibitionists don't have enough scientific evidence that it's dangerous enough to justify putting people in jail.

      And you don't have enough evidence to claim that you have the "truth" and that everybody who disagrees with you is wrong.

  3. Enforcing pot laws is big business by The+Real+Dr+John · · Score: 5, Insightful

    in many states, and they don't want to lose that revenue. It is not about right or wrong, legal or illegal, it is really about money. But as the various other states see revenue flow into states like Colorado in the form of pot taxes, they may change their minds, just like all states changed their minds about gambling and lotteries.

    --
    A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
    1. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by FudRucker · · Score: 5, Insightful

      still, legalizing it would be the better option, Colorado already proved that with the tax revenue they brought in from legalized marijuana, plus it frees up law enforcement to pursuit more serious crimes, empties jails and prisons of otherwise law abiding citizens that were only merely in possession or smoking a small amount of herb, i hope this forces the federal Govt to finally realize that marijuana should be legalized just like alcohol (legal for any adult, and no driving under the influence)

      --
      Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    2. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by turp182 · · Score: 1

      It would seem, if the other states don't want to lose the revenue from drug enforcement (which I believe is certainly true), that this increase in arrests and subsequent convictions/asset forfeiture would be welcomed.

      --
      BlameBillCosby.com
    3. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 5, Informative

      still, legalizing it would be the better option, Colorado already proved that with the tax revenue they brought in from legalized marijuana, plus it frees up law enforcement to pursuit more serious crimes, empties jails and prisons of otherwise law abiding citizens that were only merely in possession or smoking a small amount of herb, i hope this forces the federal Govt to finally realize that marijuana should be legalized just like alcohol (legal for any adult, and no driving under the influence)

      The problem is that federal Byrne grants are very lucrative and legalized marijuana is probably a losing proposition financially for states. Or, at least, for police agencies. Ever wonder why the officers on COPS turn into raving lunatics looking for drugs every time they pull some poor guy over? I mean, seriously, they act like addicts looking for a fix. The reason is that if they find drugs they make money from the feds, so every little joint is worth money.

      We've set up a system of perverse incentives. Apparently in Nebraska it's reached the point that subsequent arrests for drugs aren't yielding more federal dollars so it's not worth it to them.

    4. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by Charliemopps · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It would seem, if the other states don't want to lose the revenue from drug enforcement (which I believe is certainly true), that this increase in arrests and subsequent convictions/asset forfeiture would be welcomed.

      Yea, but now they also want a paycheck from Colorado. See how that works?

    5. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by GauteL · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Colorado already proved that with the tax revenue they brought in from legalized marijuana"

      Colorado probably got significantly increased business from being the first, surrounded by neighbours where it is still illegal. They probably even have increased secondary trade from people travelling in to get marijuana and then buying other stuff. Also, there's probably the effect of the novelty. I'm not saying there isn't a permanent increase, but it will be less if Nebraska and Oklahoma also legalise it.

    6. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by MachineShedFred · · Score: 4, Funny

      And what means are used to detect drivers who are high on pot?

      Show them a clip of a Pauli Shore movie on YouTube. If they laugh, they're driving under the influence.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    7. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1, Troll

      Colorado already proved that with the tax revenue they brought in from legalized marijuana,

      False. Colorado brought in 20% of the promised revenue from legalization and the prospects of them meeting their initial projections are about as likely as Steve Ballmer running Linux.

      Before you then say, "Well, they at least got something," I would like to remind you of this article wherein people on here were claiming Chicago's use of red light cameras a failure when they only got 44% of the initial projected income. Apparently getting 44% of of something is much worse than getting 20% of something.

      Still further, Colorado is seeing the general effects of people being stoned, such as deaths, robberies and murder, and of course the general loss of productivity from people unable to perform their jobs such as two nurses who quit their good paying jobs at a hospital where a family member works because they would have failed the mandatory drug tests.

      Just like Kansas' failed experiment of lowering taxes and cutting services didn't magically produce more revenue, whatever amount of money Colorado brings in will be eaten up by the side effects of legalization and, as this article clearly indicates, bordering states will also suffer financial losses and deaths.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    8. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by MachineShedFred · · Score: 2

      How is it hard to harass someone on drug charges, if they are not using or possessing drugs at the time of a police stop?

      "Can I search your vehicle / bag?"

      "Affording my constitutional rights, No."

      Now the police either has to show a judge probable cause to get a warrant, or they let you go. So called "reasonable suspicion" doesn't even work because there has to be some form of evidence for that - if you don't have dilated pupils, slurred speech, or loss of coordination / balance they don't have that either.

      Know your rights, and exercise them, and most cops don't get to play their cop games. If they do it anyway, you've got a nice legal settlement coming from the city / county / state.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    9. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by qwijibo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      From my point of view any compromise in the belief that it is morally wrong to ....

      This is why the states rights model makes more sense than overbearing federal laws.

      Reading your position, I think you and the people of the bible belt would get along just fine. Nothing negative against you or them is meant or implied in any way. While I may not agree on this specific point, you're promoting personal responsibility, which I support completely.

      However, I'm also positive that the people of California and the people of Tennessee have some pretty significant differences of opinion on several legislative topics. There's nothing wrong with either side, the people just need to respect that others may believe differently and not try to force it down each others throats.

      If more laws were handled at city and state levels and fewer at federal levels, the discussion could be a lot more rational. i.e., there are people who use marijuana recreationally and there are people who carry loaded guns in public. Both of these groups are generally not going around hurting anyone, so I don't have a problem with either of them. However, those should remain two separate groups and it seems reasonable for people to choose one or the other, not both, just like we do with alcohol today.

      The people who are bringing pot from Colorado into the neighboring states are committing a handful of crimes. Those states could pass laws requiring high restitution fees for those crimes to support the increased enforcement costs. Or they could decriminalize or legalize it. Each state should make their own choices and deal with enforcement accordingly. If it's not cost effective to prosecute people who have small amounts of pot and those people are generally not hurting anyone, a good business decision is to look the other way, just like with the other hundreds of thousands of laws on the books that are selectively enforced today.

    10. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      Aparently not. They are taking the RIAA/MPAA aproach and attempting to get their part of the money through litigation instead of changing with the times.

    11. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      Yah, as a white man I can walk around town smoking anything I want and nobody bats an eye...

    12. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      all of your post assumes that cops play fair and by the rules.

      so, lets stop right here and call a spade a spade. cops break laws AT WILL. there's a famous meme, "I'm going to kick your ass... and get away with it!" and its more true than false, these days.

      even if you are innocent, they can 'drop' whatever they want on you and make it stick. they can claim 'you went for a gun and I feared for my life' and kill you. a dead man makes no lawsuits.

      they can steal your money and say 'we THINK it may have been used for drug deals' and now its up to you to prove a negative. GLWT.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    13. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by operagost · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Blaming dispensaries for robbery is like blaming a woman's attire for her being raped. From the same article you linked:

      Because marijuana remains banned by Congress, banks and security firms deny services to most dispensaries. That leaves them cash-based and vulnerable, a magnet for criminals who like the idea of unguarded counting rooms and shelves lined with lucrative horticulture.

      THIS is the problem. It needs to be made totally legal, so we can end this dangerous nonsense.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    14. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by Sique · · Score: 2

      So you are advocating getting rid of caffeine and sugar, of glutamine and perfume, of acetylsalicylic acid, sodium carbonate and all those little substances that help us to overcome some unpleasant moments. No more tea, no more pepper, no more chili for us, because this is just getting us high!

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    15. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by fhage · · Score: 1

      How is it hard to harass someone on drug charges, if they are not using or possessing drugs at the time of a police stop?

      Cops often carry a "Ham Sandwich" in their "lunchbox". Anybody that they don't like will end up with a felony possession charge.

      NOPD officer Mike Thames: "Every cop I knew carried a ham sandwich," he told us. "I carried mine with me wherever I went."

    16. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by CaptainLard · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Also, there's probably the effect of the novelty. I'm not saying there isn't a permanent increase, but it will be less if Nebraska and Oklahoma also legalise it.

      True, that's why the fundamental reason for legalizing marijuana should be: "Its safe for society at large and the people want it so"

      Taxes are just a happy side effect.

    17. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by Dragonslicer · · Score: 2

      And what means are used to detect drivers who are high on pot?

      You've never seen anyone high before, have you? Detecting such drivers won't be any more difficult than detecting drivers who are drunk. The same laws most likely apply, as well, since "Driving Under the Influence" probably isn't specifically limited to alcohol.

    18. Re: Enforcing pot laws is big business by groach · · Score: 2

      That's funny because the actual numbers from taxed is upwards of 80 million, and they have seen a drop in drug use...including marijuana, and the associated crime with it. In fact the organization most hurt by legalization is drug cartels....

    19. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by nbauman · · Score: 1

      Still further, Colorado is seeing the general effects of people being stoned, such as deaths,

      This turns out to be hysterical misinterpretation of the evidence. If you follow that link back to the source, https://www.sciencenews.org/ar... you'll see what they really say is

      The results offer just a “snapshot at the time we did the testing,” Thames says. They describe an association, not causation. “The question down the road is, what kind of implications does that have for everyday functioning?”

      Scientists have largely failed to turn up compelling evidence that adult pot smokers risk permanent brain problems, Earleywine says. “Being stoned all the time is a strange way to live your life,” he says, but data just aren’t there to argue that a cannabis-fueled lifestyle is permanently harmful to the adult body and brain.

      So far nobody has been able to supply any evidence (good enough to be published in a peer-reviewed journal) that marijuana is harmful.

      A bigger problem than marijuana is a lack of the public understanding of science. These people don't understand what "evidence" is.

    20. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by nbauman · · Score: 1

      How is it hard to harass someone on drug charges, if they are not using or possessing drugs at the time of a police stop?

      "Can I search your vehicle / bag?"

      "Affording my constitutional rights, No."

      Now the police either has to show a judge probable cause to get a warrant, or they let you go.

      What ivory tower have you been living in for the last 40 years?

      If you tell some donut-stuffed cop, "Affording my constitutional rights, No," he's going to say something like, "OK, if you don't give me permission to search your car, I'll call the drug-sniffing dog, and if he wags his tail, we'll take apart your car until we find it." You're liable to wind up with your car unscrewed into a heap of parts on the side of the roadway.

      Of course it's illegal, but you'd have to be a lawyer yourself to know how far you can push it (and it varies by state).

      And if they want they can always plant it on you. They've been planting evidence on innocent people again in New York City. The Times had a few stories about that recently.

    21. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      The only problem is that those predictions and the article you are quoting were later shown to be a bunch of hogwash.

      Pro-prohibition people you like you always want to have your cake and eat it too.

      Why don't you write an essay on the effects of legalization on say gang violence, the reduced spending due to far fewer incarceration. The available police time because they are no longer arresting everyone found with an ounce of weed. Pointing to robberies associated with legalization while ignoring that criminal gangs can no longer exploit weed for illegal profit is the height of dishonesty.

      The fact is the US spends 12 billion dollars a year on drug enforcement, between enforcement and incarceration. That is a ridiculous amount of money. The social and secondary costs of said enforcement and incarceration are probably double or triple the actual expenditure. The war on drugs is a failure just like prohibition 1.0. It's insanity to continue with prohibition 2.0.

    22. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      but it will be less if Nebraska and Oklahoma also legalise it.

      I think of it like red light cameras, the 2nd invasion of Iraq, and most political campaigns - the justification they will give for the action isn't necessarily their justification, but the justification they think YOU will care most about.

      IE for red light cameras they'll advertise on safety, but to most planning boards they're trying to sell them to they'll talk revenue. Bush wanted to finish daddy's war, but talked chemical weapons to the world for allied assistance.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    23. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by smellsofbikes · · Score: 1

      "Colorado already proved that with the tax revenue they brought in from legalized marijuana"

      Colorado probably got significantly increased business from being the first, surrounded by neighbours where it is still illegal. They probably even have increased secondary trade from people travelling in to get marijuana and then buying other stuff. Also, there's probably the effect of the novelty. I'm not saying there isn't a permanent increase, but it will be less if Nebraska and Oklahoma also legalise it.

      "Probably even have increased secondary trade" doesn't even begin to cover it. My wife works in ophthalmology and she has four patients who have moved to colorado just because of pot. That's likewise cited as a primary reason that housing prices have increased recently. I find it hard to believe that people would uproot their lives just for weed, but it appears to be happening.
      Colorado is making an estimated $1M/day in taxes on pot and that's probably significantly lower than the actual revenue, since because there are virtually no banks (one credit union) that'll deal with marijuana dispensaries, it's a cash-only business so the businesses could in theory only report as much business as they wish, and pocket the rest. If/when more financial institutions start dealing with them, and people feel they can use credit cards to pay for pot, the tax revenues are likely to increase.
      It's also not clear that the novelty is outweighed by the convenience. There are a lot of people who didn't use pot previously because it was just a hassle to get and there was a bit of risk involved. The people I know who are long-term smokers have stayed with their black-market dealers because they know it's safe and it's cheaper. But people who want to use it occasionally, or don't know/want to deal with black-market stuff, is apparently a huge market. They may overwhelm the local novelty effect.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    24. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by celle · · Score: 1

      "Blaming dispensaries for robbery is like blaming a woman's attire for her being raped"

          Actually it's like blaming the nun's attire the woman was wearing when she was raped.

            Robbers are a natural enemy of businesses just like foxes are of chickens.

    25. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by rijrunner · · Score: 1

      Why should the crime be " And what means are used to detect drivers who are high on pot?"

      We have laws on the books for reckless driving, speeding, etc, etc. We don't have legal limits established for all sorts of drugs that people can legally obtain (including amphetemines, and opiodes). The current metric is how safe a person is handling the vehicle for pretty much every single item a person can ingest. Why would marijuana have a different standard than Vicoden? Than Percocet?

    26. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      Hmm...have any of them considered using bitcoin?

    27. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by RazorSharp · · Score: 1

      empties jails and prisons of otherwise law abiding citizens that were only merely in possession or smoking a small amount of herb

      Perhaps if you were in the prison business you'd make some significant campaign contributions to prevent this from happening. Or if you were part of a police union or prison guard union.

      It's not a matter of how much money is being brought in by legalization or prohibition -- it's a matter of who benefits from that money.

      --
      "From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
    28. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Or, "Charge me or let me go. I'm calling a lawyer."

      If they're calling in someone, I'm calling in someone too. And if they don't let me without me formally being under arrest for a charge, then I'm suing their asses.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    29. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by nbauman · · Score: 1

      Or, "Charge me or let me go. I'm calling a lawyer."

      If they're calling in someone, I'm calling in someone too. And if they don't let me without me formally being under arrest for a charge, then I'm suing their asses.

      Well, yeah, that's the right answer, but it doesn't always work. And it's pretty hard to sue their asses. Some states have sovereign immunity. So that family whose infant was horribly burned by a flash-bang explosive in a no-knock warrant can't sue the state, and is stuck in bankruptcy with a million dollars in medical bills.

      Monica Lewinsky also said she wanted to call her lawyer, but they wouldn't let her do it.

      All they have to do is take away your cell phone. And if you resist their illegal seizure of your cell phone, that's a felony.

      A friend of mine in college was busted for pot, and the cops gave him the Miranda line, including, "You have a right to a lawyer." He said, "OK, I want a lawyer." The pigxxxcop said, "Shut the fuck up, you're not getting any lawyer." They wanted him to rat on the biggest dealer at Stony Brook, whom I will only refer to as "Howie X."

      As a practical matter, you can assert your rights and the pigsxxxxcops can ignore you, and keep threatening you. They can lie and plant drugs and guns on you. There were a series of cases in New York City where the pigsxxxxcops were arresting innocent people on the street, and planting guns on them. They had a choice between staying in jail indefinitely, and risking a 15-year felony, or pleading guilty to a misdemeanor, and getting 6 or 12 months, which was usually the time served. One guy managed to fight it on principle, and he was lucky enough to find a lawyer who was also willing to fight it on principle.

      Even when I get stopped by the pigsxxxxcops, I'm not sure what to do. Do I have a legal obligation to identify myself? Do I have to show them identification? What would happen if they just lie in court?

    30. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      If more laws were handled at city and state levels and fewer at federal levels, the discussion could be a lot more rational. i.e., there are people who use marijuana recreationally and there are people who carry loaded guns in public. Both of these groups are generally not going around hurting anyone, so I don't have a problem with either of them. However, those should remain two separate groups and it seems reasonable for people to choose one or the other, not both, just like we do with alcohol today.

      The problem with this is that US states are not allowed to interfere with interstate commerce, control immigration, etc. So, your model really only works if you have a very liberal mindset of anybody can possess anything they want to possess (no controls on drugs, guns, etc), and no significant amount of socialism.

      If you want to ban all guns in your state, then you'll need border controls to prevent the flow of guns from states where they aren't completely banned. If you want to have strong worker protection laws in the manufacturing sector, then you need to be able to charge tariffs on goods produced elsewhere that did not have to comply with those laws. If you want to have basic income, then you need to be able to place tariffs on good produced in places that don't have basic income, and heavily tax anybody who wants to leave your state. All of these sorts of things are prohibited by the US constitution, which is why all these kinds of issues tend to become federal issues.

    31. Re:Enforcing pot laws is big business by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

      It's a net loss *for the police departments*. Less law enforcement is needed so there are fewer officers. That means fewer union members, which means less union money with which to buy politicians. It might also be a loss for the state when you factor in Byrne grants, but it's the police unions that are going nuts over this.

  4. With that logic... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The US should sue Mexico and Canada. Stupid.

    1. Re: With that logic... by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      And Mexico can't even keep people from being killed by the drug cartels - no way they even give a shit about people getting high.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
  5. Dry Counties? by jeillah · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why is this any different than counties that don't allow the sale of alcohol adjacent to counties that do? Do the dry counties sue the wet counties because they have to be on the lookout for drunk drivers on their borders? Looks like a way to get some attention or maybe some cash to me...

    1. Re:Dry Counties? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm posting anonymously on purpose. I work in Scottsbluff, Nebraska and in my profession need to work with various law enforcement agencies. What they have been telling me is that since Colorado legalized pot, they have seen a huge increase in people bringing pot into the state. That is the difference from a dry to wet county. Those counties have existed for some time and police are accustomed to dealing with it. At least in Nebraska, the police reports I've seen show quite a large increase in the number of people trafficking pot within the state.

      I spoke with one officer a couple of weeks ago and he said to me, "I don't care if you go to Colorado and smoke pot, but it's still illegal here and if I catch you with it, I have to arrest you." Law enforcement officers I know are mixed on whether they think pot is okay or not, but they all agree that if you're caught with it, they can't just let you go. I would also estimate that probably 70 percent of the folks I know in the area are against legalization.

      Now, the folks they are stopping are being stopped for other things first, such as speeding. These folks also aren't bringing back a little for themselves. They bring so much that it's obvious that it's for sale. I know of one stop earlier this year near Kimball, Nebraska of folks that were trying to take pot back to Minnesota to sell. They were originally stopped for speeding.

      Also in western Nebraska is the Wing Drug Task Force. Think of what their sole existence is for. We have a problem with meth in western Nebraska. There's lots of wide open spaces here, so a meth lab is easy to hide, yet I always read more about pot busts than meth with the task force.

      We also have police officers who do outreaches to the schools. They talk about railroad safety (because kids still think they can beat the trains) and not doing drugs. While all drugs are covered in their talks to students, meth and pot are the main focus.They tell the kids about these big studies that tell how bad pot is and then detail the awful things pot does to you.

      I personally wish Nebraska would just legalize pot, but I'm pretty sure the state government wants the title of "last state to legalize pot."

    2. Re:Dry Counties? by Molt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think you misread slightly, they said it was like 'dry counties' not 'dry countries' - as in a county in a US state where alcohol is prohibited, and which will often border another county in the same state where alcohol is freely available.

      --
      404 Not Found: No such file or resource as '.sig'
    3. Re:Dry Counties? by Alrescha · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Why is this any different than counties that don't allow the sale of alcohol adjacent to counties that do?"

      I think the difference here is that marijuana is illegal under federal law. It is not a law the states created, and so they are complaining about the disproportionate burden placed on them.

      A.

      --
      ...bringing you cynical quips since 1998
    4. Re:Dry Counties? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I grew up in a dry town, the first store you saw upon leaving it was a liquor store. Didn't matter which road you took. Once you left it was Haxton's, Douglas, or 1776 Liquors.

    5. Re:Dry Counties? by AK+Marc · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "I don't care if you go to Colorado and smoke pot, but it's still illegal here and if I catch you with it, I have to arrest you." Law enforcement officers I know are mixed on whether they think pot is okay or not, but they all agree that if you're caught with it, they can't just let you go.

      But the police have argued all the way to the Supreme Court that "discretion" is a right of the cops, and they are *never* required to enforce any law.

    6. Re:Dry Counties? by plover · · Score: 1

      It's harder to carry a trunkful of "gambling" back across the border to sell to the people back home.

      Pot is a noun. Gambling is a verb.

      --
      John
    7. Re:Dry Counties? by 605dave · · Score: 2

      Well I am not going to post anonymously.

      While I don't believe that marijuana is without it's risks, if police are telling children that meth and weed are the same then they are doing a disservice to the children. There is absolutely no comparison between the impact of the two drugs on peoples lives. Meth is highly addictive, and will make your body slowly melt into death. I should know, I watched it happen to my uncle. I on the other hand have stayed away from all drugs (including alcohol) for years, but have enjoyed and used marijuana on a regular basis. I am in great health, have a happy, fulfilled life, and am in loving relationship. Weed didn't wreck my life, in fact it has helped in many ways.

      So when part of what you tell a child is a lie, they won't believe the parts you told them that were true. When people lump marijuana in with harder drugs like heroin and meth and kids then don't have a bad experience with weed, they will believe that what you told them about everything else was also a lie.

      --
      Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a difficult battle. - Plato
    8. Re:Dry Counties? by pla · · Score: 1

      What they have been telling me is that since Colorado legalized pot, they have seen a huge increase in people bringing pot into the state. That is the difference from a dry to wet county.

      I wouldn't really call that a "difference" - The exact same thing happens in "dry" counties/town. Maybe somewhere in the deep, dark South you can find a town or two that really believe in all that "dry" bullshit, but in practice, prohibitions against alcohol work just as well as prohibitions against pot - ie, not at all.


      they all agree that if you're caught with it, they can't just let you go.

      I realize you said that as a paraphrased quote, not a personal stance, but... Of course they can! Did you ever get pulled over for speeding or an expired inspection, and the cop let you off with a warning?

      Ironically enough, the idea of "police discretion" applies all the way up the food chain - Colorado can "get away" with its legalization precisely because the federal government has decided that, for now at least, it will turn a blind eye to marijuana use in states that legalize it.

    9. Re:Dry Counties? by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      I on the other hand have stayed away from all drugs (including alcohol) for years, but have enjoyed and used marijuana on a regular basis.

      I hate to break it to you but THC is a drug by any definition.....

      Mind you, so is caffeine, and I'm not passing judgment on you for using THC, been there done that. You just can't claim that you have stayed away from all drugs while simultaneously admitting that you use marijuana on a regular basis....

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    10. Re:Dry Counties? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I grew up in a dry town, the first store you saw upon leaving it was a liquor store. Didn't matter which road you took. Once you left it was Haxton's, Douglas, or 1776 Liquors.

      And chances are pretty good that the owners/investors of those stores are either officials in the dry town, or relatives/friends of such officials.

    11. Re: Dry Counties? by 605dave · · Score: 1

      Fair enough, I should have said "except marijuana". I certainly agree it's s drug, but like your caffeine analogy.

      --
      Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a difficult battle. - Plato
    12. Re:Dry Counties? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I guess Colorado is different somehow, but in Washington the legal weed costs about twice as much as what you'd find from a traditional dealer, so I can't see how it would be cost effective to buy it, then sell it again, unless they've tapped into the supply chain at some other level. Even then, considering the ubiquity of weed in this country, especially since all of the medical marijuana that's been going around for the last decade, you'd have to be getting a huge discount to make it worthwhile.

    13. Re:Dry Counties? by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Surprise, surprise a cop who lies.

      I promise that officer has not arrested people who were breaking the law numerous times. They've probably let a bunch of people off with warnings for various things, plain ignored an offense they consider minor, and so on.

      Police have discretion: http://www.law.cornell.edu/sup...

    14. Re:Dry Counties? by c · · Score: 1

      Why is this any different than counties that don't allow the sale of alcohol adjacent to counties that do?

      Applying logic to the War On Drugs is a lot like bringing spaghetti to the beach.

      --
      Log in or piss off.
    15. Re:Dry Counties? by lexman098 · · Score: 1

      I would also estimate that probably 70 percent of the folks I know in the area are against legalization.

      Then they can pay for the law enforcement required. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

    16. Re:Dry Counties? by slaughts · · Score: 3, Funny

      What county has alcohol freely available? I need to move there...

    17. Re:Dry Counties? by xfade551 · · Score: 1

      "I don't care if you go to Colorado and smoke pot, but it's still illegal here and if I catch you with it, I have to arrest you." Law enforcement officers I know are mixed on whether they think pot is okay or not, but they all agree that if you're caught with it, they can't just let you go.

      But the police have argued all the way to the Supreme Court that "discretion" is a right of the cops, and they are *never* required to enforce any law.

      I'm pretty sure the GP was speaking with officers working the beat, not the city police chief, county sheriff, or prosecutor, in whom that full discretion actually lies. "Don't let marijuana violators go, or else you lose your job" is pretty strong motivation to enforce.

    18. Re:Dry Counties? by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      Perhaps, but there's a difference between looking the other way when you find a joint on somebody and looking the other way when you find 20 pounds of weed destined for illicit sale.

      It would be great if every state and the federal government would just legalize it, but in the meantime, cops still need to enforce their state laws. "Discretion" is one thing. Completely ignoring their job requirements and the mandate of their bosses and the public (who in Nebraska, still want marijuana to be illegal) is something else entirely.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    19. Re:Dry Counties? by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      They just need to tell them the truth. Drinking and using marijuana as an adult in moderation is a choice with moderate and controllable health and lifestyle risks. Drinking and using marijuana as a child who's still developing mentally and physically is a terrible idea that can result in permanent harm. And then meth will just wreck your shit no matter what.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    20. Re:Dry Counties? by ragethehotey · · Score: 2

      I'm posting anonymously on purpose. I work in Scottsbluff, Nebraska and in my profession need to work with various law enforcement agencies. What they have been telling me is that since Colorado legalized pot, they have seen a huge increase in people bringing pot into the state. That is the difference from a dry to wet county.

      Now, the folks they are stopping are being stopped for other things first, such as speeding. These folks also aren't bringing back a little for themselves. They bring so much that it's obvious that it's for sale. I know of one stop earlier this year near Kimball, Nebraska of folks that were trying to take pot back to Minnesota to sell.

      You have no clue what you are talking about. The prices of "legitimate" cannabis purchased in Colorado are around 35% higher than black market cannabis you can purchase in neighboring states due to increased overhead and high taxation levels. While I have absolutely no doubt in my mind there is an uptick in college kids carrying across a single ounce or two, no dealer or wholesaler in their right mind would procure from the legitimate market and transport vs. obtaining it on the black market or producing it themselves. The math simply does not work unless you somehow found people willing to pay a 50-100% markup over the existing black market in their state.

    21. Re:Dry Counties? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      "Discretion" is one thing. Completely ignoring their job requirements and the mandate of their bosses and the public (who in Nebraska, still want marijuana to be illegal) is something else entirely.

      Are you familiar with the cases the police used to get "discretion" essentially coded into law?

      The example I heard is where a woman had a restraining order out against an ex. He threatened her life, "I'm coming to kill you tonight at 7" kind of specific threat. She called the police and told them that he violated his restraining order by making the threat. He made the threat. He was arrestable at that point. She gave his last known address. She gave the time and place of her death. The police went out hours after her death, on the call of a neighbor. He showed up at the appointed time and killed her.

      The Police discretion was used to ignore a whiney bitch who probably deserved what she got. If you think that not arresting someone for violating a restraining order, not going out on a call for help, and letting people die is not "completely ignoring their job requirements" I'd like to know what is.

      On a more personal level, my uncle (rich white guy, elected judge in IL) was pulled over at least 10 times for DUI between #2 and #3 because he'd be let off every time by the police, knowing that a felony conviction would end his career. They finally gave him #3 when he crashed his wifes car, stumbled home, and got into his car and drove back to see how bad it was. There was a crowd of civilians around the crash site, as well as the officers that recognized his wife's car and his car as he drove back, and with all the civilian witnesses, decided it was finally time to arrest him for #3.

      Police have long fought to never enforce a law they don't want to, and to get to enforce knowingly bad laws. They almost always win.

    22. Re:Dry Counties? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Is that an official policy? Cops are brainwashed. All harm they see they are told "drugs caused this" regardless of cause. And so they "want" to stop drugs. Drugs didn't cause it though, that distincton goes to 20+ year old economic policy, and 200+ years of racism in the courts. There were two lynchings this year, both quickly ruled suicides, with evidence destroyed before independent investigators could examine the evidence. Both were black men hanged for dating white women. Why aren't the police investigating/enforcing the laws in those cases? Oh yeah, the Chief knows that enforcing an anti-lynching law against a white person will cause race riots, so the black man beat himself up, rolled in an ant hill and leaped up into a noose with no step stool, obviously suicide.

    23. Re:Dry Counties? by Firethorn · · Score: 2

      They bring so much that it's obvious that it's for sale.

      And how much would that be? I know that federal statutes have rules in them where if you have more then X amount it's 'obvious' you intended to sell them, then lowered said amounts because the dealers simply started carrying less, stashing their stuff in small amounts. The only ones with large amounts were the mules. There are recorded cases of tolerant people where a week's worth of their habit busted those limits easily.

      If you're an individual user driving the 200 miles from Denver to Scottsbluff, or the roughly 500 miles from Denver to Lincoln or Omaha, how much are you going to buy? Enough for a weekend, week, or are you going to consider buy months worth?

      That being said, I'd rather see small scale dealers buying from Colorado than large scale drug gangs bringing it up from Mexico.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    24. Re:Dry Counties? by Patent+Lover · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but an out of state resident can only buy 1/4 ounce in a dispensary per month in Colorado. Not nearly enough to do any real trafficking. It's just the usual bs by people who have watched Reefer Madness one too many times.

    25. Re:Dry Counties? by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      but in practice, prohibitions against alcohol work just as well as prohibitions against pot - ie, not at all.

      You want 'effective' dry counties, look towards Alaska. There are places that are pretty much only accessible by plane, and they have officers there that are almost like customs. They still get alcohol in there, but it's at a lot lower rate.

      Down south, the only reason most counties are still 'dry' is a combination of:
      1. Cronyism - the politicians are relatives/part owners of the alcohol stores located just outside of their jurisdiction
      2. Temperance types - MAD types that are against any alcohol
      3. NIMBY types - they're convinced that any change would be bad and that a liquor store would set up right next to them and draw drunks from counties over to their door step(despite the fact that the only reason they see lots of drunks at the store the next county over is all the people migrating from their county PLUS the drunks in the county the store is located in).

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    26. Re:Dry Counties? by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      but in Washington the legal weed costs about twice as much as what you'd find from a traditional dealer,

      Yeah, when I saw the measures I said they were setting the tax too high. Part of the problem is higher expenses due to the Fed's threatening the banks and such.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    27. Re:Dry Counties? by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      I think the difference here is that marijuana is illegal under federal law. It is not a law the states created, and so they are complaining about the disproportionate burden placed on them.

      There's a really simple solution here: Do basically what Colorado did, and tell the feds that if they want to prohibit weed they can do it themselves.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    28. Re:Dry Counties? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      erm. Gambling is a noun.

      Sorry :(

    29. Re:Dry Counties? by Alrescha · · Score: 1

      We could wish. But these states apparently don't want to do this, and so this is their response (one which I hadn't considered, actually).

      A.

      --
      ...bringing you cynical quips since 1998
    30. Re:Dry Counties? by elvesrus · · Score: 1

      Using a local example (Maggie's Farm) ounce prices are 160 at a medical location compared to 380 recreational with black market prices in the middle somewhere.

    31. Re: Dry Counties? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      So, your argument is essentially, "because one police department was derelict in their duties and got away with it, we should force *all* police departments to be derelict in their duties."

      Yes. Like all cops are bad cops. 1% of the cops are dirty, and 99% of the cops are bad cops for covering up for them. Note when the police sued in court for the right to never enforce the law, other departments came to stand with them, not against them. That makes *all* cops culpable.

  6. Let me FTFY ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... this is similar in nature to same sex marriage, and women's reproductive rights.

    It's legal some places and banned in others.

    America needs to make up its mind. Which way are we going to go?

    The decision should be based on case law and public need and citizen's rights.

    Legalize all that shit and let's play spin the bottle and stuff.

    yw

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  7. Really? by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It sounds like the cops have nothing better to do that waste time on pot arrests. They just want money from taxes on pot without having to collect it themselves

    1. Re:Really? by gatkinso · · Score: 1

      So let them enforce them.

      --
      I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
  8. Hope they win this case. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1, Interesting

    If they do win, it will set a nice precedent for the Gun control states to force the neighboring lax gun control laws to clean up their act. Go for it.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:Hope they win this case. by Guy+From+V · · Score: 2

      No because 2nd Amendment.

    2. Re:Hope they win this case. by Guy+From+V · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Also because more guns, less crime.

    3. Re:Hope they win this case. by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      They won't. States are allowed to pass whatever laws they like, as long as the laws don't interfere with Interstate Commerce or other applicable parts of the Constitution.

      A law saying it was legal to raise and sell pot, but NOT in Interstate Commerce, would be clearly unconstitutional (the Feds can decide that, the States, not so much).

      Similarly, the State next door whinging about your local laws would be unconstitutional (note Nevada's gambling laws going way back)....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    4. Re:Hope they win this case. by swb · · Score: 3, Informative

      I kind of doubt it. States enjoy sovereign immunity thanks to the 11th Amendment and generally can't be sued by other states.

      Without this, you would have all manner of lawsuits about neighboring states tax laws, liquor and cigarette control regimes, abortion, etc. Bigger states could dominate smaller states via sheer resources.

    5. Re:Hope they win this case. by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      if they do win it will be a sad day for america because of that, as well as the issue you bring forth

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    6. Re:Hope they win this case. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 3, Interesting
      The second amendment might apply to all Americans. But, on the ground, the reality is, it applies only to White Americans. Black/brown/yellow Americans with guns, even toy guns are being shot at sight by police. White guys with long guns get deferential treatment from police. Blacks kids with toy guns get shot within seconds.

      None of the gun rights guys are standing up for the blacks who were shot merely because they had real or toy guns with them. I am sure there will be tons of comments demonizing the dead victims. Will NRA stand up for the blacks to own guns for self protection and to fight against the tyranny of the police?

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    7. Re:Hope they win this case. by debrain · · Score: 1

      The SCOTUS has the sole jurisdiction to hear disputes between US States. In joining the union they delegated authority to that court as the sole arbiter of inter-state disputes.

      So states can sue each other, but only before the Supreme Court of the United States.

    8. Re:Hope they win this case. by Guy+From+V · · Score: 1

      Yes.

    9. Re:Hope they win this case. by DigitalReverend · · Score: 1

      Citation needed. l

      --
      I read Slashdot for the headlines, because the headlines, unlike the articles, are usually original and never duplicated
    10. Re:Hope they win this case. by flopsquad · · Score: 1

      I don't think that the 11th Amendment has been interpreted to bar states from suing each other, just citizens of states (or foreign nationals) from suing states for monetary relief. See e.g. the water wars between GA and FL.

      Note that even if the 11th was implicated in State v. State, it would only stop a suit for damages. Anyone can still sue a state (or its agent/official, etc) for prospective injunctive relief. So, exactly the kind of thing OK and NB want: "Hey CO, stop selling legal pot!"

      --
      Nothing posted to /. has ever been legal advice, including this.
    11. Re:Hope they win this case. by flopsquad · · Score: 1

      Err, NE for Nebraska, not NB for niobium....

      --
      Nothing posted to /. has ever been legal advice, including this.
    12. Re:Hope they win this case. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The SJW is strong with this one.

      The kid in Ohio who was shot because he had a toy gun, that's absolutely appalling to me. The police in New York who choked the guy to death should be given life in prison. I believe in gun rights. I stand up for blacks (or any innocent person) shot/killed/assaulted by police. Michael Brown on the other hand, clearly was attacking the police and, well, when you attack the police you also get what you get, regardless of your color. Not sure why he was picked as the poster child of police brutality when there are literally hundreds of actual cut-and-dried cases of brutality.

      So, yes, I stand up for any innocent person, I fully support law-abiding citizens of any color to own guns (I wouldn't recommend using them against the "tyranny of the police", lest you end up in a box) to defend themselves. And I know the NRA would do so, as well.

      Why you choose to further the narrative that gun owners are somehow racists or bigots is beyond me. There is no basis in reality for it, and it's furthering the divide and conquer strategy of the power elite who hate all of us, white or black, and want to keep us fighting with each other.

    13. Re:Hope they win this case. by operagost · · Score: 1

      Wow... you took the worst parts of both the Democratic and Republican party platforms and made a turd sandwich of them.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    14. Re:Hope they win this case. by operagost · · Score: 1

      The NRA stands up for all citizens equally. If you have evidence to the contrary, the burden lies on you to bring it up.

      Here's my question: why doesn't the NAACP stand up for the right of black people to keep guns?

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    15. Re:Hope they win this case. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

      David Koresh fired the first shot. He killed six ATF agents before the siege began. You feel strong enough affinity to that thug who killed law enforcement officers?

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    16. Re:Hope they win this case. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2

      Did you see the footage on that thug tax evader Cliven Bundy's ranch? If the same number of blacks had amassed there with long weapons, you think the law enforcement would be so timid and deferential?

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    17. Re:Hope they win this case. by xfade551 · · Score: 1

      Maybe because white guys arent pointing the long guns at cops.

      Mostly true, but more true is that when a white (or any race) guy with a gun points said gun at the cops and gets shot by the cops, other white guys with guns usually say, "Dumbass! What the hell was he thinking would happen!?! Better nominate him for a Darwin Award!"

      This is neglecting now too frequent edge cases like "cops get warrant for wrong house, homeowner dies in ensuing firefight" or "child with obvious fake gun gets shot by police"

    18. Re:Hope they win this case. by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Here's my question: why doesn't the NAACP stand up for the right of black people to keep guns?

      Because a more important goal of theirs is to stop the police from shooting/killing their constituents. And the message conflicts with "and also, they will be carrying one to three concealed weapons"

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      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    19. Re:Hope they win this case. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
      I agree with you, they should have rallied behind a better figure. The black leaders in 1960 did a very good job of picking who to make the face of the movement. Rosa Parks was very carefully chosen. They should have done something like that.

      But look at the New York incident, how that guy selling loose cigarettes was being demonized in the right wing media. His tax evasion is nothing compared to the millions of dollars evaded by Cliven Bundy. Still, that racist white thug is a media darling, till he was caught on tape being undeniably racist. You look at yourself in the mirror. Recall what your feelings were with respect to the Bundy ranch incident and with loose cigarette guy in New York. Judge yourself, if your views are tainted by racism or not.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    20. Re:Hope they win this case. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

      Saw the footage in Cliven Bundy ranch? Still say white guys don't threaten law enforcement? Government is weak and timid when white guys trot out long weapons. Fact. Undeniable. Other races, your mileage might vary.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    21. Re:Hope they win this case. by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      The kid in Ohio who was shot because he had a toy gun,

      A toy gun that had been painted to look like a real gun. That he was pointing at a cop... a rookie cop. I don't think there's much dispute that a better trained cop (like his partner) would not have shot the kid, but of all the incidents, it seems the most reasonable.

      The police in NY clearly should have gone to trial, and, based on what I saw, jail

      I assume Michael Brown became the poster child because the local community organized, which gave news crews something to film, which lead to more people, etc. in the snowball effect. And the facts of the case seem to be disputable.

      Why you choose to further the narrative that gun owners are somehow racists or bigots is beyond me. here is no basis in reality for it...

      Okay, first, there seems to be a correlation, esp. among people who don't know many gun owners, between gun ownership and crazy racist. Look at Cliven Bundy, or Ted Nugent. Now, that's a skewed sample, but it's the sample most people have.

      Second, the NRA itself promotes this. The most recent 35 ads I could find for the NRA feature white people. Same with the first few pages on their website.

      I'm not saying they're correct, but it's easy to see how those views could form.

      --
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    22. Re:Hope they win this case. by buck-yar · · Score: 1

      What about the ATF agent that told investigators agents fired first at dogs? Or the house hearings where one of the davidians testified that agents fired first at Koresh? Or the missing door that had the crucial evidence...

    23. Re:Hope they win this case. by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      New Brunswick?

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    24. Re:Hope they win this case. by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 1

      Is that why the US almost leads the developed world in gun ownership, and blows it away in incarceration rates and gun deaths?

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    25. Re:Hope they win this case. by buck-yar · · Score: 1

      Specious argument.

      High crime areas area in the metros where often guns are heavily regulated. IE places like D.C. and Chicago.

      Vermont has one of the lowest crime rates in the US/world and has virtually no gun laws. Can carry concealed without a permit.

    26. Re:Hope they win this case. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      If they do win, it will set a nice precedent for the Gun control states to force the neighboring lax gun control laws to clean up their act.

      It will also set a nice precedent for anti-abortion states to force the neighboring lax abortion laws states to "clean up their act".

      And it will set a nice precedent for states that ban gay marriage to force the neighboring states that have gay marriage to "clean up their act".

      Careful what you wish for. You might just get it.

  9. Yeah, about that Constitution Thing by sirwired · · Score: 1

    Attn Border States:

    The Interstate Commerce Clause. Read up on it, and how it means you can't do jack about what a neighboring state does or does not legalize. The feds certainly can, and do, have anti-drug laws, but states have no jurisdiction over federal law enforcement priorities.

    1. Re:Yeah, about that Constitution Thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
      This should be interesting (Score:1)

      by apraetor (248989) Alter Relationship on Thursday December 18, 2014 @07:09PM (#48630003)

      Last I checked there was no amendment giving the Federal gov't authority to create drug laws; it's an interpretation of the commerce clause that's been used as legal justification. Wikipedia has an interesting break-down of the source of constitutional authority for drug laws. The argument is tenuous and based on the idea that if the federal gov't refuses to tax something, then it has the authority to make laws criminalizing all trade. It's an argument which gives the fed broad reach beyond the letter of the US Constitution; it doesn't mean it's right or wrong -- just that it's the kind of interpretation liable to being changed as our society loses it's hard-nosed Puritanical belief in regulating the private lives of others.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...

      Laws constructed under the Commerce Clause authority to restrict the interstate sale of alcohol have been ruled unconstitutional; maybe this will mark the end of our prohibition-era drug war nonsense. This could well be a can of worms the Attorneys-General will regret opening.

    2. Re:Yeah, about that Constitution Thing by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      Seems to me they should be suing the federal government for not enforcing federal laws in neighboring states, placing an undue burden on Nebraska.

      I think weed should be legal (for adults) everywhere, but in the meantime, Nebraska wants it illegal. Because the federal government isn't doing its job of enforcing federal laws, Nebraska's police and judicial system are feeling the pain. Nebraska taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for this. They pay taxes to the federal government to enforce federal laws, and they're not doing it.

      Also, Colorado should (if they don't already) have laws preventing the export of marijuana to other states where it is illegal. Want to grow for distribution in Colorado? Fine. Want to grow in the safety of Colorado to go profiteer in Nebraska? Jail.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    3. Re:Yeah, about that Constitution Thing by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      Also, Colorado should (if they don't already) have laws preventing the export of marijuana to other states where it is illegal. Want to grow for distribution in Colorado? Fine. Want to grow in the safety of Colorado to go profiteer in Nebraska? Jail.

      I'm not a lawyer, but I think that would actually be illegal under the constitution. The states aren't allowed to get into trade wars with each other with prohibitions, taxes, duties, and such.

      Yes, I know in this case that Nebraska doesn't want the stuff, but it's free to pass a general prohibition, it's not allowed to ban only weed from Colorado. Colorado isn't allowed to ban weed to Nebraska.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
  10. Re:Yup. by Chrisq · · Score: 3, Informative

    Same thing happened when they outlawed dancing.

    I thought you were joking, but its true.

  11. Marijuana is still illegal everwhere in the US by Derling+Whirvish · · Score: 2

    ... this is similar in nature to same sex marriage, and women's reproductive rights.

    It's legal some places and banned in others.

    No, it's not. Marijuana is still illegal throughout the United States due to federal law. In no state (including Colorado) is it legal. It's simply that Colorado has removed any state law criminalizing it. The federal prohibition remains. That is not the case with same sex marriage and women's reproductive rights. The next president could easily tell the DEA to go in and shut down every marijuana dealer and grower in Colorado if he/she orders it.

    1. Re:Marijuana is still illegal everwhere in the US by Charliemopps · · Score: 2

      ... this is similar in nature to same sex marriage, and women's reproductive rights.

      It's legal some places and banned in others.

      No, it's not. Marijuana is still illegal throughout the United States due to federal law. In no state (including Colorado) is it legal. It's simply that Colorado has removed any state law criminalizing it. The federal prohibition remains. That is not the case with same sex marriage and women's reproductive rights. The next president could easily tell the DEA to go in and shut down every marijuana dealer and grower in Colorado if he/she orders it.

      You're neglecting the fact that the DEA doesn't have the resources to enforce that. The DEA relies on local law enforcement to do almost all of their work. They only become involved in very big cases. So yes, they could take out the stores and maybe the larger farms, but the real change is the hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of people growing it in their back yards. What I'm really surprised about is that the price hasn't really gone down yet. The prices you see at those dispensaries are still higher than street prices in states where it's illegal, which is baffling.

    2. Re:Marijuana is still illegal everwhere in the US by plover · · Score: 1

      Supply, demand, taxes, and regulations all combine to control the prices. If people are willing to pay X, and you're selling all your product, why would you reduce prices? All it would do is lower their profits; if they're even making any.

      My guess is there are a lot of hidden factors, like big insurance costs. Most insurance policies have an exemption so they don't pay out if you're doing something illegal. This means they may have to self-insure, or find a company willing to take on the risk of a federal bust - and that likely isn't cheap. Maybe the state has a tax rate designed to keep the costs high to minimize chronic abuse. Maybe the costs of physical security are high. Likely all of the above will continue to keep prices very high.

      --
      John
    3. Re:Marijuana is still illegal everwhere in the US by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      The Constitution doesn't have much to say about drugs or same sex marriage or women's reproductive rights.

      The Constitution provides the big picture and, from there, the states do what they can and then the counties and cities write ordinances.

      We The People don't have the stroke to second-guess the Constitution unless we can apply due process.

      For instance, we are free to roam about the country and assemble except if we are sent to jail or don't have a permit, respectively.

      Some federal housing prohibits firearms on the premises, and tenants waiver their 2nd amendment right.

      So, the laws you are discussing fall within the Constitution as long as due process has been applied.

      To pick one: Same sex marriage is a civil right. While there are faith-based arguments that use, "the sanctity of marriage," "against nature," "against the (Christian) bible, etc.

      None of those meet the standard of due process, so the higher standard, the Constitution, whereby "all men are created equal," prevails.

      So it is written, so let it be done and stuff.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    4. Re:Marijuana is still illegal everwhere in the US by operagost · · Score: 1

      What I'm really surprised about is that the price hasn't really gone down yet. The prices you see at those dispensaries are still higher than street prices in states where it's illegal, which is baffling.

      The statists would say this is because deregulation doesn't work, while I believe it's because banks and investors won't work with dispensaries for fear of being attacked by the federal government. Also, with the legal states being surrounded by the illegal states, you're limited to local sources. When the supply is limited, any demand tends to push prices up.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    5. Re:Marijuana is still illegal everwhere in the US by buck-yar · · Score: 1

      I doubt you understand the legality behind it, but currently you are correct. Raich vs Gonzales 2005 supports your statement but read Thomas' dissent in Raich 2005:

      "Respondents Diane Monson and Angel Raich use marijuana that has never been bought or sold, that has never crossed state lines, and that has had no demonstrable effect on the national market for marijuana. If Congress can regulate this under the Commerce Clause, then it can regulate virtually anything–and the Federal Government is no longer one of limited and enumerated powers.

              Respondents’ local cultivation and consumption of marijuana is not “Commerce among the several States.” U.S. Const., Art. I, 8, cl. 3. By holding that Congress may regulate activity that is neither interstate nor commerce under the Interstate Commerce Clause, the Court abandons any attempt to enforce the Constitution’s limits on federal power. The majority supports this conclusion by invoking, without explanation, the Necessary and Proper Clause. Regulating respondents’ conduct, however, is not “necessary and proper for carrying into Execution” Congress’ restrictions on the interstate drug trade. Art. I, 8, cl. 18. Thus, neither the Commerce Clause nor the Necessary and Proper Clause grants Congress the power to regulate respondents’ conduct.

      A

              As I explained at length in United States v. Lopez, 514 U.S. 549 (1995), the Commerce Clause empowers Congress to regulate the buying and selling of goods and services trafficked across state lines. Id., at 586—589 (concurring opinion). The Clause’s text, structure, and history all indicate that, at the time of the founding, the term “ ‘commerce’ consisted of selling, buying, and bartering, as well as transporting for these purposes.” Id., at 585 (Thomas, J., concurring). Commerce, or trade, stood in contrast to productive activities like manufacturing and agriculture. Id., at 586—587 (Thomas, J., concurring). Throughout founding-era dictionaries, Madison’s notes from the Constitutional Convention, The Federalist Papers, and the ratification debates, the term “commerce” is consistently used to mean trade or exchange–not all economic or gainful activity that has some attenuated connection to trade or exchange. Ibid. (Thomas, J., concurring); Barnett, The Original Meaning of the Commerce Clause, 68 U. Chi. L. Rev. 101, 112—125 (2001). The term “commerce” commonly meant trade or exchange (and shipping for these purposes) not simply to those involved in the drafting and ratification processes, but also to the general public. Barnett, New Evidence of the Original Meaning of the Commerce Clause, 55 Ark. L. Rev. 847, 857—862 (2003).

              Even the majority does not argue that respondents’ conduct is itself “Commerce among the several States.” Art. I, 8, cl. 3. Ante, at 19. Monson and Raich neither buy nor sell the marijuana that they consume. They cultivate their cannabis entirely in the State of California–it never crosses state lines, much less as part of a commercial transaction. Certainly no evidence from the founding suggests that “commerce” included the mere possession of a good or some purely personal activity that did not involve trade or exchange for value. In the early days of the Republic, it would have been unthinkable that Congress could prohibit the local cultivation, possession, and consumption of marijuana.

              On this traditional understanding of “commerce,” the Controlled Substances Act (CSA), 21 U.S.C. 801 et seq., regulates a great deal of marijuana trafficking that is interstate and commercial in character. The CSA does not, however, criminalize only the interstate buying and selling of marijuana. Instead, it bans the entire market–intrastate or interstate, noncommercial or commercial–for marijuana. Respondents are correct that the CSA exceeds Congress’ commerce power as applied to their conduct, which is purely intrastate and noncommercial."

    6. Re:Marijuana is still illegal everwhere in the US by buck-yar · · Score: 2

      Under what authority does the federal govt have to regulate pot? It doesn't.

      http://www.law.cornell.edu/sup...

    7. Re:Marijuana is still illegal everwhere in the US by Cederic · · Score: 1

      They're being arrested for possession in a state in which it is illegal to possess marijuana.

      How is the legality of the purchase of that marijuana in one jurisdiction relevant to its illegal possession in another?

      Tax receipts are pretty irrelevant on that front.

    8. Re:Marijuana is still illegal everwhere in the US by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      You can't be that anonymous, can you?

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  12. Arrest increase because they're looking for it? by swb · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Chappell, NE is a don't-blink-or-you'll-miss-it town of 929 on I-80 between North Platte, NE and Cheyenne, Wyoming. A 400% increase in felony drug arrests sounds like a lot, but how many felony drug arrests could there ever have been in a town of 929? Did we go from 1 to 4?

    I also wonder how many shitkicker rural sheriffs in neighboring states went on full batshit alert once Colorado legalized it and began pulling over every car they could with out of state license plates coming from Colorado, knowing that they would hit paydirt on at least some of them? You can pretty easily create your own crisis if you start looking for it.

    To be fair to the sheriffs, I don't doubt there is some increased amount of pot leaving Colorado -- it's a tourist destination even without pot and it wouldn't surprise me at all if people who go there for other reasons (like skiing or other outdoor activities) decide to bring some home.

    It also wouldn't surprise me if some people went there specifically to bring some home, although from what I've been told the retail pricing isn't all that competitive on a dollar basis with black market pot and the economics of driving cross-country to pick up a couple of ounces of weed don't seem to lend themselves to a lot of people deciding to make that trip.

    I don't think you can factor in any kind of organized criminal enterprises into these complaints -- that was a "problem" *before* it was legalized. Bitching about it now because you're frothed up about pot legalization and seeing it everywhere you look just seems paranoid.

    1. Re:Arrest increase because they're looking for it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I also wonder how many shitkicker rural sheriffs in neighboring states went on full batshit alert once Colorado legalized it and began pulling over every car they could with out of state license plates coming from Colorado, knowing that they would hit paydirt on at least some of them? You can pretty easily create your own crisis if you start looking for it.

      As someone with several friends in Colorado who frequently leave the state by car I'm gonna go by what they've told me which is that since day one of legal cannabis in Colorado cops in neighboring states have pretty much been camped out at the state line stopping cars for pretty much no reason at all ("You were going 3 mph over the limit, DO YOU HAVE ANY DRUGS IN THE VEHICLE?").

    2. Re:Arrest increase because they're looking for it? by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

      That is common whenever the laws change when passing an unseen line. They do that in my city during New Years an July 4th since we aren't allowed fireworks in the city. Firework stands are set up right outside city limits and cops right inside city limits.

      Only the city and big / influential businesses are allowed to shoot off fireworks in San Antonio.

      Same with highways that drop to 15 miles an hour to sustain small towns via tourist tickets

    3. Re:Arrest increase because they're looking for it? by sribe · · Score: 1

      I don't think you can factor in any kind of organized criminal enterprises into these complaints -- that was a "problem" *before* it was legalized.

      FYI, a couple of years ago the pot boom here reached the point where there was an oversupply, leading to a dip in prices, leading to some operations having financial problems. A handful of them engaged in bulk sales on the black market to drug dealers who were smuggling it to other states. Care to guess how I know this as a fact? Simple, it was all over the evening news when the DEA made the raids and shut them down.

      The state of CO and the federal government only have this weird detente for in-state sales which follow all the CO regulations (and there are a lot of them). The feds are still actively investigating for and prosecuting any attempt to divert marijuana to bulk sales or export out of state.

      So yeah, these fucking morons in our neighboring states are complaining about exactly what you suspect, the occasional dummy who crosses state lines with an ounce. And, yes, they have been very aggressive about stopping cars with CO license plates and harassing drivers from CO. Fuck these cave dwellers!

    4. Re:Arrest increase because they're looking for it? by sribe · · Score: 2

      From 1 to 4 would be a 300% increase. You suck at math.

      Nope, his math is fine. It is you who does not understand political math. In politics, 1 to 4 is a 400% increase ;-)

    5. Re:Arrest increase because they're looking for it? by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      it was all over the evening news

      oh! so it must be true, then.

      the evening news would not lie to us. they don't have an agenda. they don't keep 'in good' with the politicians and cops and judges and jailers and (and and and...). no, they report honestly and without fear. they expose bad actions of our government.

      (wakes up).

      wow, what a dream I just had.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    6. Re:Arrest increase because they're looking for it? by sribe · · Score: 1

      oh! so it must be true, then.

      Why yes, I am pretty sure that when the evening news runs a story about ~12 being raided by the DEA, complete with pictures, that in fact those dispensaries were raided by the DEA. I also actually tend to trust that when they raid ~12, and leave hundreds of others alone, that in fact those ~12 were engaging in black market trafficking. Raiding that few does absolutely nothing to disrupt the trade that is in compliance with CO regulations, it does absolutely nothing to intimidate shops that operating illegally. In short, the only reasonable explanation for the DEA's action in this particular instance was the one they gave.

    7. Re:Arrest increase because they're looking for it? by sribe · · Score: 1

      ...it does absolutely nothing to intimidate shops that operating illegally

      Ugh. Me need caffeine. Should have been "it does absolutely nothing to intimidate shops that are operating legally".

    8. Re:Arrest increase because they're looking for it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I live in Colorado and have family in Kansas, I can say this is completely true.. Old back routes between Denver and Wichita that might have had 1 lone sheriff on it somewhere near a small village before recreational MJ now are crawling with Highway patrol vehicles.

      In Wyoming I have been followed by Highway Patrol vehicles the very moment I got on there side of the interstate, I used to drive all the way across Wyoming without seeing a single LEO, now I see a ton of them on the eastern range colorado boarder.

      Ive seen signs setup on i70 in Kansas that say, "Checkpoint ahead, be prepared to stop" only to be followed by a lonely looking exit ramp thats crawling with hidden cops, guess what there was no checkpoint.. it was all a ruse. Ive also read an article that says Kansas HighPo's have a mobile X-Ray (MWI mebe?) in the back of an unmarked cemi truck so they can drive it down i70 and look inside all the vehicles that pass it by.

      There finding more pot because there looking for it alot harder, Ive heard Colorado License plates on neighboring interstates is considered a "Green Badge of Courage"

  13. Solution is End Federal Ban by retroworks · · Score: 1

    Unlike the dry county / wet county and guns references (or gay marriage, etc), this particular case uses the fact that marijuana remains illegal under federal law.

    The suit should prod US Congress to pass a law explicitly allowing Colorado and Washington to self regulate marijuana.

    If that happens, it's all good, the Nebraskas actually move the ball forward by removing the legal dichotomy.

    I'd think Congress could do that. They might be chicken to actually remove the federal law, but they could explicitly create an exemption for state law since there is no Constitutional (civil rights) issue at stake. And it's because it's a commerce issue more than a rights issue, it doesn't belong in Courts in the first place. If Congress cannot act on it one way or the other, it must be just as dysfunctional as its members claim and agree it is.

    --
    Gently reply
    1. Re:Solution is End Federal Ban by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      They would also now need to add Oregon and Alaska. And when even more of these laws pass, they would need to add them too. And don't forget medical use states - need an exemption for all of them too.

      At the end of the day, you're just going to have a massive jumble-fuck of legalese that nobody understands. Just do away with the Federal blanket ban already and let States decide, since that's what is happening right now anyway.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
  14. A gap? by TrentTheThief · · Score: 1

    There is a gap in the program, and fortunately, Colorado, Washington, Alaska are leading the way through it.

  15. Re:10th amendment by transporter_ii · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Yes. And why did alcohol prohibition require a Constitutional amendment, but not marijuana prohibition? The answer is, during alcohol prohibition, the constitution was being followed. Under marijuana prohibition, they wiped their asses with the Constitution.

    --
    Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
  16. Crimes, period by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    frees up law enforcement to pursuit more serious crimes

    You mean crimes, period. It's time to peel off the indoctination and admit that voluntary recreational drug use is not a criminal matter.

    1. Re:Crimes, period by dbreeze · · Score: 2

      Something having to do with a "victim" comes to mind.......?

      --
      When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
  17. good luck with that.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2014/12/department-justice-congress-war-medical-marijuana
    The $1.1 trillion federal spending bill approved by the Senate on Saturday has effectively ended the longstanding federal war on medical marijuana. An amendment to the bill blocks the Department of Justice from spending money to prosecute medical marijuana dispensaries or patients that abide by state laws.

  18. Put up a wall at the border. by buckfeta2014 · · Score: 1

    Toll booths. "Random" inspections. Lengthy waits in a office while people tear your car apart and give you an anal probe. I mean, it works for Canada and Mexico, right?

    --
    Buck Feta. You know what to do.
    1. Re:Put up a wall at the border. by Bigby · · Score: 1

      I know it is in jest, but that is actually illegal per the Constitution. "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States." Not necessarily a toll or random inspections, but you can't treat it like its a border of the country or someone is going to take it to the Supreme Court and likely win.

  19. Dear Nebraska and Oklahoma.... by MitchDev · · Score: 3, Funny

    Fuck off losers

  20. Antique laws are to blame by SternisheFan · · Score: 2, Informative
    This whole criminalization debacle was started by paper magnate William Randolph Hearst and his buddies to keep hemp from competing with their product. Why U.S. citizens are still jailed for pot in this day and age is idiotic, we aren't living in the 1930's anymore, are we?

    (From Wiki) - Regulations and restrictions on the sale of cannabis sativa as a drug began as early as 1860 (see Legal history of cannabis in the United States). The head of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics (FBN), Harry J. Anslinger, argued that, in the 1930s, the FBN had noticed an increase of reports of people smoking marijuana. He had also, in 1935, received support from president Franklin D. Roosevelt for adoption of the Uniform State Narcotic Act, state laws that included regulations of cannabis. The total production of hemp fiber in the United States had in 1933 decreased to around 500 tons/year. Cultivation of hemp began to increase in 1934 and 1935 but production remained at very low volume compared with other fibers.

    Some parties have argued that the aim of the Act was to reduce the size of the hemp industry largely as an effort of businessmen Andrew Mellon, Randolph Hearst, and the Du Pont family. The same parties have argued that with the invention of the decorticator, hemp had become a very cheap substitute for the paper pulp that was used in the newspaper industry. These parties argue that Hearst felt that this was a threat to his extensive timber holdings. Mellon, Secretary of the Treasury and the wealthiest man in America, had invested heavily in the Du Pont family's new synthetic fiber, nylon, a fiber that was competing with hemp. In 1916, United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) chief scientists Jason L. Merrill and Lyster H. Dewey created a paper, USDA Bulletin No. 404 "Hemp Hurds as Paper-Making Material", in which they concluded that paper from the woody inner portion of the hemp stem broken into pieces, so called hemp hurds, was "favorable in comparison with those used with pulp wood". Dewey and Merrill believed that hemp hurds were a suitable source for paper production. However, later research does not confirm this. The concentration of cellulose in hemp hurds is only between 32% and 38% (not 77%, a number often repeated by Jack Herer and others on the Internet). Manufacture of paper with hemp as a raw material has shown that hemp lacks the qualities needed to become a major competitor to the traditional paper industry, which still uses wood or waste paper as raw material. In 2003, 95% of the hemp hurds in the EU were used for animal bedding, almost 5% were used as building material.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    1. Re:Antique laws are to blame by will_die · · Score: 1

      Not this garbage again.
      If this is true please answer this.
      Where are Hearst vast forests? Plesae give coordinates so far there is more proof of the elephant graveyard. However you can easily find receipts of his newspaper companies purchasing large quantities of paper and of the paper companies purchasing wood.
      Since there are no vast Hearst forests he then had to be the stupidest business man in history since he was throwing away a resource that would of resulted in cheaper production costs for him.
      The reason later laws, the 1937 was a taxation law, passed was not some mythical Hearst stopping it but that the public got upset with the stories and effect on people it was causing.

    2. Re:Antique laws are to blame by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Don't forget that in his own post he is saying that laws started in 1860, but it was the evil hegemony of industrialists 80 years later that are to blame.

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    3. Re:Antique laws are to blame by SternisheFan · · Score: 1

      Not this garbage again. If this is true please answer this. Where are Hearst vast forests? Plesae give coordinates so far there is more proof of the elephant graveyard. However you can easily find receipts of his newspaper companies purchasing large quantities of paper and of the paper companies purchasing wood. Since there are no vast Hearst forests he then had to be the stupidest business man in history since he was throwing away a resource that would of resulted in cheaper production costs for him. The reason later laws, the 1937 was a taxation law, passed was not some mythical Hearst stopping it but that the public got upset with the stories and effect on people it was causing.

      One comment up, an AC posted this: "Hearst's forest land in Mexico was nationalized in 1937, just as they nationalized oil lands in 1938. No wonder Hearst hated Mexicans. And with high unemployment there was unreasoning hatred over jobs, just as now, even though most americans didn't do agricultural work, just as now. The forests no longer exist because most of them have since been cut down. Much of that was done illegally by drug cartels. The 1937 law was a prohibition masquerading as a tax.

      http://www.druglibrary.org/sch...

      The garbage is the propaganda campaign that resulted, and which you have apparently swallowed whole. Reefer Madness."

      This was the beginning of the demonizing of hemp/marijuana. Those wealthy men then had an (erroneous) belief that their dynasties were being threatened by hemp. They purposely used the word "marijuana" in their anti-hemp campaigns because it was a foreign (Mexican) sounding word that scared people far more than the word "hemp". Marijuana would corrupt our youth and lead to dark-skinned men defiling our white women/ daughters. All of this and more due to now dead white men who (then) were feeling their source of income was being threatened.

  21. Commerce clause abuse by bradley13 · · Score: 5, Informative

    The stupid thing is: it may well work. The federal government regularly twists the Commerce Clause beyond all recognition. The most egregious case, the one that really set the ball rolling, was the one where the federal government claimed the right to regulate farmers feeding their own grain to their own livestock. Why? Because that meant that they bought less grain from elsewhere, some of which might, potentially come from out of state. Hence, the Commerce Clause allowed the regulation.

    Given that sort of precedent, the federal government can justify essentially any regulation that it wants. Certainly including telling Colorado that it's state-wide laws are invalid, because they happen to indirectly affect neighboring states.

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    1. Re:Commerce clause abuse by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Yeah I see nothing in the Constitution allowing the Federal government to actually criminalize the possession or use of substances like marijuana. The Supreme Court could decide the DEA is unconstitutional, and decapitate it. That could be ... chaotic.

    2. Re:Commerce clause abuse by somenickname · · Score: 1

      Colorado should counter sue these states under the same Commerce Clause. As a state that takes in billions of dollars in tourism each year, having neighboring state police border camp and harass people driving on federally owned interstates is, in effect, the states regulating interstate commerce.

    3. Re:Commerce clause abuse by Smauler · · Score: 1

      This cases has been cited by a more relevant one, Gonzales v. Reich which was about the right to grow your own marijuana in states in which it is legal to use it medicinally : "The government also contended that consuming one's locally grown marijuana for medical purposes affects the interstate market of marijuana, and hence that the federal government may regulate—and prohibit—such consumption."

  22. Re:Yup. by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    That reads like an Onion of a movie plot. Or the makers of Footloose read that and thought "Kevin Bacon would make a great Mike Niblett."

  23. Colorado could require state ID by donheff · · Score: 1

    If Colorado simply required a state ID for purchasers that would seem to mute the issue. Purchases by out of state people would be illegal like anywhere else and CO would have done nothing to impact NE and OK. Of course, we tourists would be infuriated and might try our own suit claiming unfair impact.

    1. Re:Colorado could require state ID by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      That would quite probably be a violation of the Equal Protection Clause....

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    2. Re:Colorado could require state ID by fhage · · Score: 1

      If Colorado simply required a state ID for purchasers that would seem to mute the issue. Purchases by out of state people would be illegal like anywhere else and CO would have done nothing to impact NE and OK. Of course, we tourists would be infuriated and might try our own suit claiming unfair impact.

      Colorado law allows residents to purchase 1 oz at a time and nonresidents only 1/4 oz. There's nothing to prevent people from hitting multiple shops, but possession of over 1 oz for rec use is still illegal as is selling any quantity without a license. Taxes total around 30% of the retail price.

      Tourists pay $45-60 per 1/8, tax included. Residents (repeat customers) often get a 20-30% discount. The legal shops are not a significant source of MJ for resale out of state due to it's high cost.

      State Patrols in surrounding states are getting the reputation of acting like highway bandits near the CO borders. By now, every NE or OK, cop has some nice, labeled Colorado bud to plant on anyone who gives them trouble. Eventually, they will figure out it's more lucrative to target drivers right before leaving the state to get their cash rather than the MJ on return. I'd recommend spending as little time and money as possible in those states while traveling.

    3. Re:Colorado could require state ID by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      By now, every NE or OK, cop has some nice, labeled Colorado bud to plant on anyone who gives them trouble.

      If they're doing it regularly it's just asking for an eventual FBI sting and ensuing shitstorm.

      --
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  24. The case of Idaho is particularly interesting by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

    The state is libertarian, not Bible Belt, and yet Idaho police organizations are incensed over pot legalization in neighboring Oregon and Washington. There have been a number of well-publicized cases of Bad Cop behavior exercised against out-of-state pot users, even to the extent of spying by Idaho cops in the pot-legal states in hopes of entrapping legally operating businessmen passing through Idaho.

    Idaho has such a large population of anti-government types that I can see it not only legalizing pot, which they regard as basically a side issue, but being the first state to seriously cut back on law enforcement property seizure powers. Based on this year's headlines, this will start an even more popular serious of referenda across the country than pot legalization.

    1. Re:The case of Idaho is particularly interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Idaho is only "libertarian" in the sense that the Republican party is just way too progressive and inclusive for them. /former Idahoian

    2. Re:The case of Idaho is particularly interesting by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

      Well, you must be smoking something assuming that Idaho would legalize. Boise might be down with it, but the rest of state, due to its high rate of Mormon population, will never let it happen. Remember that Mormonism is a high indicator of Libertarian- (or Republican-) leaning behavior. They'll vote as Mormons first, not as Libertarians. And Mormons don't want legal weed in Idaho.

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    3. Re:The case of Idaho is particularly interesting by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      The Oregon law specifically says that crossing out of state with legally purchased pot is illegal. Idaho is fully in their right to drop the hammer on someone doing so, and Oregon won't say shit about it.

      This really isn't that hard to figure out.

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    4. Re:The case of Idaho is particularly interesting by penandpaper · · Score: 1
      This. I remember hearing about a public debate in Boise about medicinal marijuana with legislators. Consensus was they want to keep it completely illegal and more funding (from Federal grants ofc). Idaho will be one of the last states to legalize any aspect of it.

      Can't find source it was a year back or so.

      Boise might be down with it,

      Maybe a small lead in the popular vote in the city limits. But the districts/sate legislators are very few and far between.

  25. Re: 10th amendment by david_bonn · · Score: 1

    Another ignored amendment: the 2nd. And just about every other recently by the Obama administration.

    Say what you want about republicans, but they don't shit over the constitution like the dems do.

    Yeah, because suspending habeus corpus indefinitely is so constitutional. And reading everyone's email doesn't violate the fourth amendment. I'm also pretty sure that torture violates the fourth and fifth amendments.

    Please.

  26. How long has the War on Drugs lasted? by Bruinwar · · Score: 1

    Decades?

    Trillions spent on it? And I can still go down the street & score. Why are people crossing into Colorado to score when Billy next door grows it? This really makes no sense.

    Stressing their law enforcement resources my ass... Nebraska is making money on these busts, we know that. Now they want to double dip & get some of Colorado's tax windfall.

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  27. Re:flaimbait??? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

    Someone doesn't agree with you, therefore they must have an agenda aligning with a corporate / government cabal?

    I do hear that cannabis makes you paranoid...

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  28. the REAL solution: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    strip the DEA of scheduling authority!

    here's a simple thought experiment:

    you just awoke from a 50 year coma and in playing around with this new-fangled interweb thingy you learn that final authority over the legality of a given substance rests NOT with the FDA (an army of PhDs) or the AMA (an army of MDs) but with this new agency called the "DEA" - a bunch of frakin' COPS! "wait? say that again?!?" you say "a bunch of COPS who know as much about chemistry, biology & medicine as my dead cat have VETO POWER over armies of MDs & PhDs on the legality of ingesting a given chemical?!? what rocket surgeon came up with that bright idea?!?"

    we need to abolish the DEA not just b/c we happen to disagree with them on THC (and MDMA, etc) but b/c the basic model is IDIOTIC!!!

    1. Re:the REAL solution: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Only one problem with your complaint. The DEA is responsible for the Enforcement of the laws. Not the creation of them. Now that doesn't mean that the people making the laws pay any attention to the FDA or AMA but that isn't the fault of the DEA.

    2. Re:the REAL solution: by ganjadude · · Score: 3, Informative

      DEA has "emergency scheduling" powers, its how they went after bath salts and legal marijuana alternatives over the past decade

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    3. Re:the REAL solution: by sjames · · Score: 1

      His complaint is valid because the foolish lawmakers handed the DEA their authority to schedule a drug. They should at least take that back.

  29. Re:Second Hand Smoke? by retroworks · · Score: 1

    Um, there's that?

    --
    Gently reply
  30. Why not a purge? by Carnivore24 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Make all drugs legal for 1 month out of every year. That way Darwin comes in and filters through all the idiots who can't control themselves. By the end of the month everyone who practices personal responsibility and respect continue contributing to the normal human gene pool. It it's a hit expand it to 2-3 months a year.

  31. WTF happended to "small gubmint and freedom fries" by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The attorneys general of Nebraska and Oklahoma sued Colorado in the U.S. Supreme Court on Thursday, arguing state-legalized marijuana from Colorado is improperly spilling across state lines

    Seriously, wtf. Oklahoma is way up there among the meth'iest states in the Union, and in Nebraska, LEO's report 1 meth lab incident per 200K people (compared to 1 incident per 376K people in Colorado.) Meth is far more dangerous than pot, I would think these two states should get their shit together before trying to drag another state to federal court.

    Furthermore, Colorado is doing far better in almost all indicators than these two states. Not because of pot legalization obviously, but because of a variety of reasons (many of them social).

    So, Oklahoma and Nebraska, butt off. Get your shit together. Then worry about legal consequences, if any, that you might be experiencing because Coloradoans are baking brownies the type your granny used to eat back in Woodstock (yes, either she did that there or in a barn, get over it.)

  32. Re:10th amendment by Shakrai · · Score: 2

    It started with FDR (*), the New Deal, and a little known SCOTUS case involving wheat....

    Thanks Democrats!

    (*) Actually the progressive philosophy really got started with Wilson but that asshat didn't have FDR's cojones. I guess FDR did save Western Civilization as we know it; that probably should count for something....

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  33. astroturf by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As you can see, the moderation converged on a more proper +5 Insightful

      I've read the post carefully and it doesn't qualify as Flamebait IMHO. It states a controversial political opinion and thus invites a discussion, which may lead to flamage, but does not itself lead with a flame.

    So this looks like someone who doesn't like the position trying to suppress it, by hitting it with the most plausible -1, in the hope that one more like-minded person will have mod points and get it suppressed before very many people see it. That works for "politically incorrect" subjects (such as criticisms of the "heat death of the Earth, everybody panic and suppress technology" interpretation of climate data), where a crowd of like-minded free speech haters are ready to suppress opposing opinions. But pro-pot doesn't appear to attract that much system-gaming opposition.

    Right now it only takes two downmods to hide a non-anonymous itme. It seems to me that we have enough people willing to moderate that it's time to scale up the mod system, so a small astroturf operation can't shut down debate. Say: double it: Mods get 10 points, -2 hides, non-anynomous starts at +2, high-karma at +4, doulble everybody's current karma and readjust the cutpoints for bonuses, caps, and the like. That would mean it would take two moderators to suppress a anonymous post and four for authors willing to risk reputation. (It would also mean more work for those who are willing to moderate - but they might be more willing to spend a point if they had more to spend.)

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    1. Re:astroturf by SternisheFan · · Score: 1

      You can comment on a story that you're moderating only as an AC, after you've signed out completely.

  34. Interesting turnabout. Pot instead of fireworks by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

    I find this somewhat interesting given that people in Colorado go to Nebraska to get good fireworks, when ever I am heading out there to visit friends and relatives in CO there is always a request to pick them up some fireworks from either South Dakota or Nebraska on my way in. What is most amusing is that in both Nebraska and South Dakota any out of stater can purchase fireworks but residents are required to have a special permit that costs extra, so at least COis more open in that they don't restrict their own citizens like NE does with fireworks.

    --
    Time to offend someone
  35. Was Going On Before by Greyfox · · Score: 1
    All that pot was crossing their borders before, they just weren't paying attention. A majority of states now allow it for medical use, so it's not like Colorado's the only source of the stuff. And it's not hard to get a medical card. Find the right doctor and tell him you have a headache, stress or PMS.

    I don't think I could do better than my house in Longmont, Colorado right now. Weed's legal, we're rolling out a gigabit municipal fiber network, there's a skydiving dropzone 10 minutes from my house, a vertical wind tunnel ("indoor skydiving") an hour from my house, the food here is amazing and the gays can get married in the state now. Suck it, rest of the world!

    --

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  36. Re:Yup. by Meneth · · Score: 3, Informative

    That People article was written in 1980, and the makers of Footloose did read it. See wikipedia.

  37. On paper, sure. But in reality the DEA makes law. by Ellis+D.+Tripp · · Score: 5, Informative

    Going back at least as far as the 1980s, the DEA has used their "emergency scheduling" powers to ban various substances by fiat.

    Drugs like MDMA, GHB, "bath salts", and various synthetic cannabinoids were all summarily placed in Schedule I by unelected DEA bureaucrats. All they have to do is wave their pen, and any substance they want to ban is made illegal.

    Yes, such actions are theoretically open to review by congress, but in reality Congress has never denied any DEA action of this nature, and simply rubber stamps whatever the DEA does.

    So the DEA has the ability to CREATE drug laws, as well as ENFORCE them.

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  38. Their argument sounds weak. by wcrowe · · Score: 1

    They argue that a "patchwork of state and local pro-drug policies and licensed distribution schemes" are in conflict with federal law. Yet the very same patchwork exists with regards to alcohol, firearms, and a whole host of other things.

    --
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  39. State Run Liquor Stores in New Hampshire by Irate+Engineer · · Score: 1

    For crying out loud, the NH State Liquor Commission actually operates liquor stores just across the Massachusetts border, no sales tax. Most of that liquor rides north to the White Mountains, but a lot of it goes right back to Massachusetts.

    I'd bet the Massachusetts AG would love to sue NH for this to recover the sales tax losses. In practice, this caused Massachusetts to repeal blue laws, so you can now buy liquor and beer in many stores on Sundays. You'd really have to be buying high shelf stuff to warrant a special trip to NH for it to be worth the effort, so the situation has stabilized. The average Joe looking for a case of beer isn't going to bother.

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    1. Re:State Run Liquor Stores in New Hampshire by Irate+Engineer · · Score: 1

      The average Joe looking for a case of beer isn't going to bother.

      I actually have to qualify this; the NH Liquor stores don't sell beer, but there are a lot of package stores also right across the state border that do. They certainly pull beer business from Massachusetts.

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  40. Re:On paper, sure. But in reality the DEA makes la by Dragonslicer · · Score: 2

    Yes, such actions are theoretically open to review by congress, but in reality Congress has never denied any DEA action of this nature, and simply rubber stamps whatever the DEA does.

    So what you're saying is that it isn't really a failure of the DEA, but a failure of Congress?

  41. Re:"Legal Pot" is a total fiction by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

    What could be interesting is what happens if the next President decides to enforce Federal law in Colorado / Washington / Oregon / Alaska, and if someone makes an 8th Amendment case saying it is "cruel and unusual" to enforce laws at the whim of the Executive.

    That could be a precedent that causes repealing of a whole lot of so-called "blue laws" that go unenforced, or just ridiculous laws like Indiana declaring "The value of Pi is 3."

    Well, if we're lucky.

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  42. Like, Nebraska and Oklahoma don't have illegal MJ by Streetlight · · Score: 1

    One thing legalizing marijuana may do, besides producing some tax revenue, is allow for reasonable regulation of it's distribution. Nebraska and Oklahoma authorities are whistling past the graveyard if they think they don't have any marijuana in their states and any there must have come from Colorado. I would also guess that the MJ dealers in those two states are not getting it from legal sources in Colorado. There are likely cheaper sources from elsewhere including home grown stuff. I haven't heard whether legal marijuana sales in Colorado has eliminated illegal sales, but it has likely reduced the cost of police searching for it and housing offenders. Police and jailers have better things to do. By the way, I live in Colorado and have never used marijuana.

    --
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  43. Just doing their Job. by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    Seems normal to me. Police enforce laws not make them.

    There was a number of police that came out in Canada that said basically that busting pot was a huge waste of time and drain of resources, however they are still tasked to do it. Their complaint wasn't so much about the morality of doing pot, but that of a staffing and resources issue, where they thought it was a waste of time and resources that could be better spent, you know solving real crimes, or targeting more harmful drugs.

    The only horse that law makers keep beating about pot is that it is a "gateway" drug that leads users to do harder drugs. Which is complete BS, but even if it were, the only reason it might be is you have you drug dealers that sell both, "oh we're all out of pot, here try some Meth!". By legalizing it, and selling it, regulating it, and taxing it, you can still enforce the sale (just like cigarettes), but you would basically be putting the pot black market out of business, essentially eliminating the "gateway" to begin with.

    How will this change? Eventually the old farts that made the laws will die, and newer more progressive law makers will change them. Slow change, but it is going to happen.

  44. Canada by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    OK. Maybe Canada should sue the USA for all the gun crimes that occur in Canada because the US gun laws suck.

  45. What is their point exactly ? by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 2

    The same argument can be said for ANY laws that differ from States, Cities, Counties, jurisdictions, etc.

    Town X is dry ( no alcohol can be sold ) yet town Y is not. End result is all citizens from Town X drive to Town Y to buy all their alcohol. Town Y planning on suing Town X in the near future because of it ? Unlikely.

    State X prohibits gambling, yet all adjacent States have multiple casinos running and welcome all of State X's residents with open arms. Is State X planning on suing all the other surrounding States because of it ? Only if they're idiots. The smart State would legalize gambling, tax it appropriately and quit giving truckloads of tax money to surrounding States instead.

    Pick a law. Any law that differs from State to State and try to rationalize going the litigation route claiming it's the other guys fault because they're doing things differently.

  46. Re:Second Hand Smoke? by fhage · · Score: 1
    Eat a cookie.

    I attended 2 concerts at Red Rocks this summer. There was far less MJ in the air than I've ever experienced in concerts before legalization. We should have done this decades ago.

  47. Re:On paper, sure. But in reality the DEA makes la by Ellis+D.+Tripp · · Score: 1

    Well, a group of lawyers and businessmen (Congress) is about as poorly equipped as a group of prosecutors and cops (DEA) to render an impartial decision about the potential risks/benefits of various chemicals based on scientific fact, rather than political expedience or ideology.

    About the ONLY thing that Congress has over the DEA is that (again, in theory) they are responsible to the will of the people that elect them. Of course, in reality, they are beholden to the needs of the corporations (Pharma, Booze, Tobacco, Corrections) who fund their campaigns, so we end up with more and more substances being made illegal every year, science be damned.

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  48. Hey Red States by Seraphim_72 · · Score: 1

    Hey you know those States Rights you want to drone on about and vote about and tear your hair and cover yourselves in ashes about?

    Yeah, SUCK IT.

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  49. Re:On paper, sure. But in reality the DEA makes la by Dragonslicer · · Score: 2

    The solution is simple, though. Congress can write a law that says that the FDA and/or Surgeon General decides how to classify drugs, and the DEA can only enforce those decisions. If the DEA really needs emergency classification authority, such a decision can be limited to a duration of 1 year before it must be approved by the FDA (of course, I can't think of why the DEA would be better equipped than the FDA to make emergency decisions).

    Now if only something this logical had any chance of getting done by Congress.

  50. That is trademarked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    That is trademarked by Victoria Secrets. They can call them angels, but they are bunnies with wings.

  51. Re:WTF happended to "small gubmint and freedom fri by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 1

    My guess is that some corporations or interest groups are sending money to politicos in these neighboring states because they want to stop the legalization of drugs.

    Or the cops are complaining because they can't get what they used to on confiscated marijuana.

    Honestly, if they could hand out pot at high schools to keep kids off Meth -- that would be an improvement.

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  52. Not sure the FDA would be much better... by Ellis+D.+Tripp · · Score: 1

    If they use the standards that they use for regulating pharmaceuticals, and tried to apply them to recreational drugs.

    Their risk/benefit analysis procedures would need a major realignment, as the current methods would disallow essentially ANY substance as having risks that outweigh the benefits (getting high).

    Because getting high is not a medical necessity, the amount of potential risk would need to be essentially non-existent for the FDA to allow a substance on the market. Even relatively benign recreational drugs like pot or psychedelics have potential risks that would preclude them from approval according to current FDA standards.

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    1. Re:Not sure the FDA would be much better... by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      I certainly didn't mean to imply that it necessarily has to be the FDA. You're certainly right that this would be outside of the FDA's typically mandate. My point was just that the decisions should be made by people with the appropriate education and experience, which isn't the DEA. One post farther up this chain mentioned the FDA and AMA, but I don't think the AMA has the legal authority, which is why I also mentioned the Surgeon General. I'm not sure exactly which agency within the Department of Health would be the best for this.

    2. Re:Not sure the FDA would be much better... by Ellis+D.+Tripp · · Score: 1

      In the case of pot, the most logical thing would be a division of efforts, such as we currently have for our other (much more harmful and addictive) recreational drugs, alcohol and tobacco.

      Surgeon general can force warning labels and release reports, but little else.

      FTC/FDA/BATFE can police ingredients, labeling/packaging, production facilities, overseas shipping, etc.

      Home production/non profit distribution allowed with generous limits and no more oversight than homebrewing beer or amateur winemaking is subject to now.

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    3. Re:Not sure the FDA would be much better... by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      The same sort of logic is the reason why there aren't a lot of new painkillers. That and tort issues.

      Painkillers save zero lives per year (directly - maybe you could make a hand-waving argument about suicide prevention or something like that). Even the most common and safest ones have some risk of serious side-effects, including death. Thus, looking at it in a simplistic manner, painkillers are almost never of medical benefit.

      Now, when you get to quality of life then obviously painkillers make a lot of sense. The problem is that when one person in 10 million takes your pill and dies, and you get sued, you can't point to the millions of people who are happier as a result of taking your fancy pill and use that to justify the occasional death. The result is that people developing painkillers tend to abandon them early in development if there are any issues.

      The result is that we have a rather poor selection of painkillers to choose from.

  53. Re:On paper, sure. But in reality the DEA makes la by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

    Do you honestly think that the FDA, another branch of government wouldn't just rubber stamp it?

    We shouldn't be trying to nanny people. I think attitudes about this south of the border are far more enlighten about this. And because you don't know what those attitudes are I will enlighten you. Drugs are a personal problem across the border, it's not anyones business but the person taking the drugs and potentially their family. See down there they get it, you can't stop someone from hurting themselves. If someone is going to do it they are going to do it regardless, it's foolishness to try to prevent them from doing it by putting them in jail for doing it.

    The drug laws are an abomination. They've been used to gut much of the 4th amendment. Civil forfeiture is nothing more than government sponsored theft.

  54. state rights by danlip · · Score: 1

    It's a good thing those Republicans support state rights. oh wait ...

    1. Re:state rights by plopez · · Score: 1

      And personal Freedom and Liberty and Justice for All!

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  55. Re:10th amendment by Shakrai · · Score: 1
    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
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  56. Re:10th amendment by buck-yar · · Score: 1

    Federal power got rolled back with Lopez and Morrison.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U...

  57. Re:On paper, sure. But in reality the DEA makes la by ganjadude · · Score: 1

    yes, because the democrats have been wonderful at not taking away our rights.....

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  58. Re:On paper, sure. But in reality the DEA makes la by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

    (of course, I can't think of why the DEA would be better equipped than the FDA to make emergency decisions)..

    I can think of just one: LEOs see a bunch of people lurching around and groaning "braains!" after ingesting some new chemical compound.

    The truth is that policy should belong to the FDA, but LEOs are first responders, and should have some say in correlations. Most of this should be data fed back to the FDA to help them make their decisions, but there are some remote possibilities where this process may take longer than quat is required to prevent actual harm to society.

    Stretching the argument I know, but it's still a reason.

  59. Re:Second Hand Smoke? by penandpaper · · Score: 2
  60. Re:On paper, sure. But in reality the DEA makes la by netsavior · · Score: 1

    The DEA and FDA have unconstitutional power, thanks to a little bill Nixon pushed through so he could arrest hippies. Now it will take some serious congressional balls to "look soft" on the war on drugs, in order to reverse this unconstitutional affront to our system of checks and balances.

  61. Welfare to discourage Robin Hood gangs by tepples · · Score: 1

    The existence of public goods as an argument that taxes are not theft assumes:
    1) There is no other way to provide public goods

    Please provide a counterexample to the claim "There is no other way [than taxation] to provide public goods" and I'll believe you. Preferably more than one, so that other Slashdot users don't shoot each down as impractical.

    would it not be stealing if I took your money and gave it to orphans?

    Would it not be stealing if I took your money and used it to shoot other people who try to take not only more of your money but also your life? Police and military are public goods. Giving a reasonable peaceful livelihood to orphans helps reduce the cost of police by keeping orphans from forming gangs that use violence against rich people.

    1. Re:Welfare to discourage Robin Hood gangs by Shortguy881 · · Score: 1

      Not in Massachusetts: http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

      --
      Brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants.
  62. Oh, I totally agree about the feds by sirwired · · Score: 1

    I totally agree that the Fed's ability to CREATE drug laws is legally tenuous. But that's really irrelevant here. A state has no right of action to force another state to conform their laws to this or that federal law. If the feds have a problem with it, it'll be between the feds and that state. It's simply not a matter for one state to go after another.

  63. Watch out Nevada by paiute · · Score: 1

    If this argument has any legs, then states bordering Nevada can begin to stop and detain women on their way to work in legal brothels, citing the Mann Act.

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  64. Re:Just like the old days. by groach · · Score: 1

    Yea, its a common occurrence in Georgia, my cousins had a normal run they did on sunday because the county was dry on sunday...so if they ran out of beer for football, it was a 1 hour drive to south Carolina to get more. It became a regular thing for years...

  65. News for nerds? by Jonboy+X · · Score: 1

    I'm no prude, what what the hell does this story have to do with "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"?

    Fsck this crap, I'm out.

    --

    "In a 32-bit world, you're a 2-bit user. You've got your own newsgroup, alt.total.loser." -Weird Al
  66. Re:10th amendment by jklovanc · · Score: 1

    According to a Ken Burns documentary. an amendment was used because the Temperance Movement thought a constitutional amendment would never be repealed. Amending the Constitution is difficult and the only way to repeal an Amendment is to make another Amendment. No Amendment had ever been repealed and it was thought that no Amendment ever would be. Federal laws, on the other hand, can be repealed by any sitting Congress. The Temperance Movement thought they had certainty with an Amendment. It was never tested as to whether a federal law would be shot down by the SCOTUS. Using a constitutional amendment was a choice not a requirement.

    As evidence of this in 1914 the Federal government passed the Harrison Narcotics Tax Act which nationally regulated and taxed the production, importation, and distribution of opiates and coca products. That law was upheld by SCOTUS in United States v. Doremus, 249 u.s. 86. Regulating alcohol is quite similar to regulating narcotics but the Temperance Movement wanted the certainty, or at least what they thought was certainty, of a constitutional amendment.

    Sorry but the evidence does not match the idea that Congress is now viewing the Constitution differently than they did in 1920.

  67. Interesting hypocrisy at play in Nebraska.... by Ellis+D.+Tripp · · Score: 1

    So legal weed coming INTO the state constitutes a great threat, but setting up cheap liquor stores just across the state border from the Lakota reservation (with a huge alcoholism rate) is just swell...

    Nebraska Complains About Colorado Weed While Enabling South Dakota Alcoholism

    http://www.hightimes.com/read/nebraska-complains-about-colorado-weed-while-enabling-south-dakota-alcoholism/

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  68. There are 929 people in Chappell, Neb by ToddInSF · · Score: 1

    Whenever someone says such and such "skyrocketed" 400%, instead of stating the real numbers, I know that they're a fucking deceiving, lying sack of dogshit.

    Whoever wrote the article is a piece of shit.

  69. Why is Oklahoma so upset? by lightbounce · · Score: 1

    Oklahoma and Colorado share only a short border, and there are no major roads connecting them. What makes Oklahoma think Colorado is to blame for all its marijuana issues?

  70. Denver is headed to Mexico City by FreedomFirstThenPeac · · Score: 1

    Denver already has the smog, now it can grow a narcotics trade as well. Then Nebraska will get some surplus drones and start a campaign agaist the drug trade, then ...

    --
    "There is no god but allah" - well, they got it half right.
  71. Taxpayer-funded rent-a-cops by tepples · · Score: 1

    From the article you linked: "working with public money".

    Essentially these LECs operate as private security contractors paid for with public funds obtained through taxation. And you'll only see them on the level of the several states because the Anti-Pinkerton Act of 1893 prohibits the U.S. federal government from hiring private rent-a-cops.

    1. Re:Taxpayer-funded rent-a-cops by Shortguy881 · · Score: 1

      So do farms, the telcom industry, and the long list of other industries receiving subsidies.

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      Brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants.