Study: Light-Emitting Screens Before Bedtime Disrupt Sleep

At a guess . . . by mmell · 2014-12-22 17:20 · Score: 4, Insightful

The amount of light entering the eye and stimulating the optic nerve is higher for the tablet. More light == more wakefulness. We're wired that way.

Re:At a guess . . . by fustakrakich · 2014-12-22 17:32 · Score: 2

There's always the brightness control. I suspect most people set it too high.

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“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Re:At a guess . . . by SeaFox · 2014-12-22 17:38 · Score: 2

I set mine waaay low when I'm reading late at night. Then again the room lights are also pretty dim, too. It's always surprising how dim it is if I try using it the next day in a fully lit room.
Re:At a guess . . . by carlhaagen · 2014-12-22 17:43 · Score: 2

It's about light at the blue wavelength - the intensity obviously plays a part, but the wavelength is the primary cause. When the optical nerve receives EM at this wavelength the brain tells the pineal gland to not produce melatonin.
Re:At a guess . . . by davester666 · 2014-12-22 17:51 · Score: 1

and everybody knows melatonin puts you to sleep.

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Re:At a guess . . . by pushing-robot · 2014-12-22 18:11 · Score: 1

Good luck finding devices that get dim enough, though; manufacturers have focused on making screens brighter for daytime use at the expense of nighttime usability.
About the only devices I have that dim enough to tolerably use in a dark room are my Retina MBP and iPad, and even then I must use f.lux or light-on-dark color schemes to make it comfortable. I've tried screen filtering apps for Android, but they never seem to dim the soft keys and can cause unexpected battery drain.
Oh, and don't get me started on backlit keyboards.

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Re:At a guess . . . by ProzacPatient · 2014-12-22 18:13 · Score: 4, Informative

Since most reading you'll do is black text on a white background I always go into accessibility settings and invert the screen so it will be white text on a black background which will emit significantly less light than the former.
Re:At a guess . . . by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-22 18:26 · Score: 2, Interesting

There's always the brightness control. I suspect most people set it too high.
No. That has much less to do with it than the frequency of the light. There is specific blue wavelength that triggers circadian rhythm. Essentially, if you are looking at a screen before bed, you are screwed. (and this seems to include me too)
220V incandescent in a 120V plug tends to produce the light you need to get to sleep. So if you want to read, get a 40W 240V bulb on ebay from China, and use it in your 120V light fixture. It will be a dim, orange 10W bulb, but more than enough to read by. And doesn't disrupt melatonin production.
If you are in 220V country, well, not such an easy solution. Needs a dimmer switch.
And yes, has to be incandescent. CFS, LED, all are terrible. Unless you wish to light your book with red LEDs!
Re:At a guess . . . by cold+fjord · 2014-12-22 18:29 · Score: 1

How do you think the pineal gland reacted due to inputs conveying this scheme?
Double shot of espresso?

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much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Re:At a guess . . . by fustakrakich · 2014-12-22 18:44 · Score: 1

I can change the background color in the reader also, and reduce it to a nice barely green-yellow, right in the middle of the eye's frequency response. It's very easy on the eyes. The combination is every bit as good as paper for me. There's plenty of blue in the sky at the time we need it the most.

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“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Re:At a guess . . . by JMJimmy · 2014-12-22 19:06 · Score: 1

The amount of light entering the eye and stimulating the optic nerve is higher for the tablet. More light == more wakefulness. We're wired that way.
You'd be wrong. This is old news, it's something in the blue spectrum that causes the disruption. My parents already have a film on their glasses which filters out the light - they've been bugging me to get it for months.
Re:At a guess . . . by JMJimmy · 2014-12-22 19:14 · Score: 2

and everybody knows melatonin puts you to sleep.
Melatonin is a neurotransmitter involved in triggering sleep, it's also involved in gallbladder function converting cholesterol into bile. What most people don't know though is that it can cause eye damage in high doses (above 0.8mg) if taken regularly. Health food stores sell the stuff in 3mg+ tablets of course.
Re:At a guess . . . by Barsteward · 2014-12-22 19:41 · Score: 1

I'm sure this was also reported years ago with TVs being an issue for sleeping, something about blue light being a disrupter

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Re:At a guess . . . by l0n3s0m3phr34k · 2014-12-22 22:15 · Score: 2

I've made a few "sleep light" things. Nothing complex, one is four blue florecent bulbs all plugged into the outlet-to-plug recepticals. This I can take and plug into whatever room I'm in when I'm trying to wake up. Not just by itself but in addition to the other lights. It's pretty bright and I think it's working. In the bedroom I've got red lights under the bed, and blacked out everything else I can find. I work 10 and 12hr shifts and it REALLY has been helping my sleep cycles.

LED's aren't terrible, they are just "not adjustable" much with wattage. But you can get red / orange LEDs for night-time ambient lighting so when you get up to go to the bathroom you aren't kicked into the "wakeness cycle"
Re:At a guess . . . by jones_supa · 2014-12-22 22:43 · Score: 1

What most people don't know though is that it can cause eye damage in high doses (above 0.8mg) if taken regularly.
Citation?
Re:At a guess . . . by WillKemp · 2014-12-22 23:05 · Score: 1

It's the colour of the light, more than its brightness. Blue light inhibits melatonin production, increasing wakefulness. Red light's ok at night, blue light's not.
Re:At a guess . . . by WillKemp · 2014-12-22 23:09 · Score: 1

A better idea is to get a red led bulb off ebay. Save electricty and sleep better.
Re:At a guess . . . by Cinnamon+Beige · 2014-12-23 01:04 · Score: 4, Informative

I went and poked around medical journal databases. MedlinePlus has little, though it confirms the dosage recommendations, while a bit of work via PubMed located this study which I think may be the correct citation. Its PubMed listing seems to indicate that it's not the sole possibility, though, as do its references.
Re:At a guess . . . by jones_supa · 2014-12-23 01:28 · Score: 1

Okay! Thank you for the effort.
Re:At a guess . . . by The+Grim+Reefer · 2014-12-23 02:45 · Score: 1

There have been numerous studies that show the color of the light also has a surprising impact on sleep too. Blue light is more disruptive than red or yellow prior to going to sleep.
Re:At a guess . . . by BarbaraHudson · 2014-12-23 03:49 · Score: 2

Easy solution - get a screen made out of dark matter ... since it's 90% of the universe, what could possibly go wrong?

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Re:At a guess . . . by kencurry · 2014-12-23 04:21 · Score: 1

+1 on "adjust background color"

I changed my page color to sepia, and dim the brightness quite a bit. I like this better then the white on black inverted look.

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Re:At a guess . . . by pepty · 2014-12-23 04:58 · Score: 1

For Windows: Negativescreen. I have it set to go to red text on a black background or go back to normal when I hit alt-win-v. It' much harder to get a useful setting on my tablet.
Re:At a guess . . . by arth1 · 2014-12-23 05:04 · Score: 1

It's also the spectrum. It doesn't matter if the light is marked with a "warm" temperature, if it's really a mix of cold and warms with more warms. Light doesn't blend - our brain tricks us into thinking it's warm, filling in the blanks.
To get broad continuous spectrum light, you need incandescent bulbs or halogen lights - even the best fluorescent and LED lamps don't exceed much more than a 80% color rendering index.
So a book or an e-ink device without LED sidelight is what you want. I use warm halogen reading lights, finding them to be easier to dim at night without getting mains fllicker/hum like normal incandescent lights.
Re:At a guess . . . by X0563511 · 2014-12-23 05:13 · Score: 1

It would be nice if they would build that into the screen. It doesn't need to be a lowpass, a notch would work fine without mangling the perceived colors.

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For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Re:At a guess . . . by matbury · 2014-12-23 05:55 · Score: 1

An alternative interpretation of the data: Reading for four hours and taking blood samples every hour disrupted the subjects' sleep but after a few days, they got used to it (while they were reading paper-based text). This study doesn't control for other variables and establish and correlation, let alone a cause-effect relationship. And a sample size of n12, seriously? I'll wait for a decently designed study to come out. Anyone know of any?
Re:At a guess . . . by hey! · 2014-12-23 06:15 · Score: 1

I actually use yellow tinted goggles after 6PM this time of year. The sunlight is so short and weak this time of year my sleep schedule gets totally messed up. When that happens in the summer I just get up in the middle of the night and work until bedtime, but that doesn't work here in December because there's not enough light during the day to get synced up.
So I try to go outdoors every day for an hour around noon, particularly if its overcast. And I wear those stupid goggles after 6PM, which is a PITA but beats lying in bed awake all night only to fall asleep at noon.
The particular pair I use (Uvex S1933X) cost only $8 and are, surprisingly, optically pretty good. There's slight distortion at the edge-of-field but they're fine in the center of the field. They don't actually block much blue light, but by looking at color swatches I've determined the cut off violet quite dramatically. When I put them on, all those irritating "blue" LEDS (which are actually violet) simply disappear. You can be looking straight at one with these puppies on and you'd never know it was lit, much less annoyingly bright. Subjectively, my eyes feel less tired too, although the lenses need frequent cleaning.
Another thing I find useful is a word processor called FocusWriter. It can edit ODT files, but it ignores all the color styling and hides all the Windows controls. The intent is to eliminate writing distractions, but I find it useful to eliminate blue-violet light exposure. I set the display background to black and the text background to amber, and those are the only colors on screen. I'd pay good money for an epaper ereader with an amber backlight. As for tablets, Amazon's Kindle App doesn't give you any nighttime-friendly options; the best is black text on sepia, but it's far too bright. Moon+ Reader is a good alternative for ePub files; Cool Reader is a GPL'd ebook reader that can be configured for comfortable nighttime reading, although it's UI isn't quite as polished as Moon+ Reader.

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Re:At a guess . . . by DocSavage64109 · 2014-12-23 07:33 · Score: 1

iphones seem to get plenty dim. I also second the thought that most people turn up the brightness. My friends, and their kids, have learned to max out the brightness every time they touch my phone.
Re:At a guess . . . by angel'o'sphere · 2014-12-23 10:18 · Score: 1

It is beyond me why people demand citations for stuff they can google themselves ...
Actually it is a form of "intellectual violence" forcing someone "who is likely right" to prove it to someone "who is completely ignorant".

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Re:At a guess . . . by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-23 12:16 · Score: 1

No problem. I just throw on my computer glasses and all is good. They are specifically designed to combat eye fatigue and to block high frequency blue light.
Re:At a guess . . . by st0nes · 2014-12-24 20:24 · Score: 1

It Isn't the brightness of the light so much as the colour that's important. Blue light induces wakefulness, red light tells the brain it's time for sleep. If you can adjust the colour spectrum of your tablet, nudge it towards the red end of the spectrum and eliminate the blue and violet end.

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Always good to have confirmation of the obvious by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-22 17:24 · Score: 1

Install f.lux or redshift

I had this problem, then I got f.lux. by pushing-robot · 2014-12-22 17:25 · Score: 5, Informative

Just get f.lux.

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How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?

Re:I had this problem, then I got f.lux. by carlhaagen · 2014-12-22 17:41 · Score: 3, Interesting

Same. I'm on 3200K during evening, 3000K before bed. Using the laptop before bedtime no longer affects my sleep, not even the least. The problem with blue light preventing melatonin production is long gone.
Re:I had this problem, then I got f.lux. by kvl6 · 2014-12-22 18:14 · Score: 1

Me too, surprised it doesn't get more coverage.
Re:I had this problem, then I got f.lux. by fustakrakich · 2014-12-22 19:07 · Score: 1

I guess that's fine if you don't want to bother setting your own background colors. A very pale green-yellow is the most comfortable for me.

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“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Re:I had this problem, then I got f.lux. by Mitaphane · 2014-12-22 19:18 · Score: 1

This. It helps immensely helped with keeping my sleep cycle consistent. There's also Lux for Android (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vito.lux&hl=en) which was very helpful too

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-Shawn "If the Name Don't Rhyme It Ain't Mine" Conn
Re:I had this problem, then I got f.lux. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-22 19:28 · Score: 1

Why flux? You would need at most a soldering iron and a desoldering pump to remove that pesky tablet screen and most of the time, you can just snap the connectors off once you've pried the device open.
Re:I had this problem, then I got f.lux. by disambiguated · 2014-12-22 20:29 · Score: 4, Informative

when things are dark, and you need more light, it dims things.
Exactly the opposite: when things are dark, your pupils dilate and you need less light. Do you turn your smartphone brightness down in bright sunlight?

But brightness isn't the point -- color temperature is. I haven't read the documentation; the software is too simple and easy for that, but the homepage describes what it does. Flux lowers the color temperature at night, which interferes less with sleep. I also find it much more pleasant.
Re:I had this problem, then I got f.lux. by drinkypoo · 2014-12-23 00:19 · Score: 4, Informative

Or for Android, since the summary implies mobile devices, there's Twilight.
Or for Unix, since this is slashdot you fucking savage, Redshift.
On Unix, sadly, only Adobe Flash player detects color corrections and plays your video in proper color. Neither Google nor Mozilla have figured this out for flash video, either. Also, Flash player is the only video player which properly suppresses the screensaver on Linux. What year is it?

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"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:I had this problem, then I got f.lux. by cyberchondriac · 2014-12-23 04:15 · Score: 1

Ar ar ar. At least he didn't mention a butane torch.

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Re:I had this problem, then I got f.lux. by X0563511 · 2014-12-23 05:19 · Score: 1

Background colors? Nope. Black. There is zero need for a background.

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For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Re:I had this problem, then I got f.lux. by X0563511 · 2014-12-23 05:25 · Score: 1

I just tried it and I can't stand it - I'd far prefer it only adjusting brightness.

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For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Re:I had this problem, then I got f.lux. by fustakrakich · 2014-12-23 05:54 · Score: 1

The whole white text thing is ridiculous. The after effects when you look away are just too much. I prefer the 'natural' look

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“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Re:I had this problem, then I got f.lux. by GrumpySteen · 2014-12-23 07:22 · Score: 1

What year is it?
Not the year of Linux on the desktop, apparently.
Re:I had this problem, then I got f.lux. by sound+vision · 2014-12-23 07:26 · Score: 1

Did you come across any tiny paper squares and chew on them recently? "after-effects" happen to me on acid, but not really at any other time.
Re:I had this problem, then I got f.lux. by sound+vision · 2014-12-23 07:33 · Score: 2

If you flipped it on and then flipped it off 2 minutes later, that's probably why. Like going from an incandescent-lit room to a fluorescent-lit room, it takes a bit for your eyes to adjust to the new color temperature. I use f.lux on a daily basis, and often I actually have to check to see if it's enabled, because it's not immediately noticeable after the changeover and your subsequent adjustment.
Re:I had this problem, then I got f.lux. by FatLittleMonkey · 2014-12-23 08:22 · Score: 2

It looks weird if you go between day/night settings abruptly. During the normal cycle, your eyes adjust as it fades/brightens, so you barely notice it. Try it for a few days. Since using it, I've reduced the night colour-temperature quite a bit (below 4000K) from where I originally set it (about 4800k), you underestimate just how much your eyes can adjust. (Use the slow-transition, the fast-transition is buggy anyway.)
Also, manually adjust the lat/long to suit your sleep pattern, rather than your actual location.

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Re:I had this problem, then I got f.lux. by david_thornley · 2014-12-23 09:38 · Score: 1

When things are light, and so there is less of a need to rely on the monitor's brightness

I don't get this. You don't see an image on a monitor through reflected light, you see it from the light emitted by the monitor. I need more light when it's bright out, because it has to outshine the ambient light to be seen.

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Re:I had this problem, then I got f.lux. by rdnetto · 2014-12-23 10:42 · Score: 1

On Unix, sadly, only Adobe Flash player detects color corrections and plays your video in proper color. Neither Google nor Mozilla have figured this out for flash video, either.
Strictly speaking, wouldn't you want the video to be in the adjusted colour? Most of my late night PC usage is watching video, and I don't even notice the change anymore. (It helps that Redshift gradually changes the colour temp.) That said, I found it made a huge difference to my sleeping patterns.

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Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
Re:I had this problem, then I got f.lux. by drinkypoo · 2014-12-23 12:09 · Score: 1

Strictly speaking, wouldn't you want the video to be in the adjusted colour?
No. I want it to be in corrected but not adjusted color. It gets hard to see some stuff in some video otherwise. It probably ought to be a config flag, though.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:I had this problem, then I got f.lux. by rdnetto · 2014-12-23 13:12 · Score: 1

If you're watching it full screen, you could just turn it off temporarily.

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Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
Re:I had this problem, then I got f.lux. by vandamme · 2014-12-24 06:41 · Score: 1

Redshift works OK on my Linux desktop.
Re:I had this problem, then I got f.lux. by X0563511 · 2014-12-27 02:55 · Score: 1

So an after-image of a huge white rectangle is better than an after-image of text?

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For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Re:I had this problem, then I got f.lux. by fustakrakich · 2014-12-27 03:57 · Score: 1

No, because I can keep the brightness much lower I don't have that problem. The after-image is much stronger with white on black. I think they only did that to save power on the old CRTs

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“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Re:I had this problem, then I got f.lux. by X0563511 · 2014-12-27 11:29 · Score: 1

Either that, or reduce burn-in.

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For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...

Next on Bennett Haselton's Blog by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-22 17:37 · Score: 2, Informative

"The math behind news reporting obvious,primordially old fact" Subtitle: "Algorithmic inspections into primordial facts: Case study: My own experience glimpsing into the cosmos thru words, heavenly turquoise light bathing my retinas in sweet abyss, long into the night, of wordy, frequent contributions".

Posted at 12:17AM by wisnoskij · 2014-12-22 17:38 · Score: 1

Posted at 12:17AM.

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Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.

Re:Posted at 12:17AM by ChunderDownunder · 2014-12-22 17:42 · Score: 1

Hmmm, I get
Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday December 23, 2014 @04:17PM
What weird, obscure timezone are you using? :)
Re:Posted at 12:17AM by wisnoskij · 2014-12-22 17:45 · Score: 1

EST. It just includes like half the population of the US and Canada.

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Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.

I sat right next to the CRT as a kid, and I lived by mbstone · 2014-12-22 17:41 · Score: 1

By the time the light affects you, there will be a different display technology in use that doesn't pose the same alleged health risk

...tablet before bed don't sleep as well... by turkeydance · 2014-12-22 17:44 · Score: 1

that's a really good marketing slogan. Soulskill should copywrite it.

Set text to amber on black in evening by idealego · 2014-12-22 17:51 · Score: 1

The blue light decreases melatonin production. Set your device to display amber on black and dim the room's lights. If you're extra sensitive to it like me, get yourself a pair of blue-blocking glasses.

Old news... by rnturn · 2014-12-22 17:52 · Score: 1

This information was making the rounds 1-2 years ago. Seems some submitters are way behind in their reading.

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CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M

Re: Always good to have confirmation of the obviou by bill_mcgonigle · 2014-12-22 17:57 · Score: 2

Twilight on Android.

Also, points to Soulskill for posting this after midnight.

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Re:What about... by mark-t · 2014-12-22 17:58 · Score: 3, Informative

1. e-paper has a positively abysmal screen update time

I use my tablet a lot for reading highly technical articles, and I often end up flipping back and forth between different pages of the text while I am reading, usually between a page with a figure or code listing and an explanation that follows or precedes it. I'd rather not add an easily perceptible delay between the time that I slide my finger one way or the other to advance or go back a page and the time it takes to actually show it.

2. e-paper's full color support is poor.

Many of the articles that I read come with slides which I also view on the tablet, and color is very useful at conveying information. Some progress has been made on this front, but for most practical purposes, epaper is generally monochrome.

But certainly, if they ever get around to making a non-emissive display technology with a fast enough screen update time that you can't notice any delay between your actions and when the screen update is complete, and they provide respectable full color support, I'll be all over it. The only reason I use a tablet instead of hard copy at all is portability.

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File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'

Just get f.lux! by Radak · 2014-12-22 18:09 · Score: 4, Informative

I use f.lux on my MacBook and it's great (also available for Windows and Linux, but I haven't tried those versions). It adjusts the colour temperature of the screen, using your location and the time of day, to match the colour temperature of the natural light of that time of day. I have noticed a significant difference in the quality of my sleep since I started using it. Plus, whenever I happen to get up during the night and want use the computer for something, I'm not blinded by the screen.

Re:Just get f.lux! by jafac · 2014-12-22 18:42 · Score: 2

just a word about this program - sometimes it gets flagged as spyware. I don't know if it's because f.lux has to know your location (in order to time the local sunset) - or if there's something else going on. There are some other programs. There is g.lux, and redshift, for starters.

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Re:Just get f.lux! by Intrepid+imaginaut · 2014-12-22 19:23 · Score: 1

What if you don't habitually use your computer/tablet outdoors?
Re:Just get f.lux! by Radak · 2014-12-22 20:01 · Score: 2

f.lux isn't designed for outdoor use (although there's no reason you couldn't use it there). The idea is that the light coming off your screen matches the colour temperature of the natural light you'd be receiving if you were outdoors (and whatever might be coming through your windows), so that your brain's neurochemistry (melatonin in particular) matches what it should be doing at that time of day, helping you maintain a natural circadian rhythm, which it seems to accomplish in spades.
Re:Just get f.lux! by Radak · 2014-12-22 20:07 · Score: 3, Informative

I can't speak for the Windows and Linux versions, but I know from Little Snitch that the Mac version attempts to talk to port 443 on their webserver when it starts up, presumably for an update check. Additionally, it attempts to contact doubleclick.net and googleapis.com when you search for location. I just block all this traffic and haven't seen any adverse effects.
Thanks for the pointers to g.lux and redshift. I'll check those out and see if they offer anything better for me.
Re:Just get f.lux! by Radak · 2014-12-22 21:55 · Score: 1

Heh, I almost thought of adding a disclaimer. No, I have nothing to do with the software. Just a happy user.

Re:I sat right next to the CRT as a kid, and I liv by Skidborg · 2014-12-22 18:29 · Score: 1

I'm not sure what vague risk you are referring to, but I don't think it has much of anything to do with the effect observed here.

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E-Reader does work for some technical stuff ... by perpenso · 2014-12-22 18:31 · Score: 5, Interesting

I understand what you are getting at. I'll use an iPad Retina or laptop during the day to check technical books, reference manuals and other documentation.

However when reading at night its generally a more traditional book (history, sci fi, etc) on a Kindle PaperWhite, in my opinion, its equivalent to a paper book but more convenient. I feel it is a better experience even when compared to the lightest color tablets. Certainly it will vary from one technical field to another but I've had surprisingly good results when reading programming and software development books on the PaperWhite, not as good as a higher resolution color tablet but better than I expected and acceptable with respect to the illustrations and diagrams and such. Then again I haven't tried something like the latest edition of Foley and van Dam (a computer graphics text).

I see the refresh you speak of but its less than turning a paper page of a real book. As for the time you believe you are saving, maybe the faster refresh of a color tablet is not a win once you consider the sleep disruption and also the lowered productivity that results?

Re:E-Reader does work for some technical stuff ... by X0563511 · 2014-12-23 05:16 · Score: 1

I do the same, but I've an older Kindle DX. I prefer to lay on my back and hold the book up. Naturally, using a Kindle means a lot less wear on the arms during an extended episode of reading...
Really though, I find reading before bed to be far more disruptive than blue light, because I often can't put the book down until I have 4 hours to sleep left...

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For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...

Sample size a wee bit small by Morpeth · 2014-12-22 18:32 · Score: 1

12 people is really small for a study imo. I think there might be something to the idea, but the study seems lacking.

There's so many variables that a much larger pool would be helpful.

Are these 12 all regular bedtime readers? Which ones regularly read with an ipad/kindle vs. paper book? Are these 12 normally good sleepers or not? Why did they make them read for 4 hours (personally, that's much longer than anyone I know of reads before falling asleep)? I dunno too much left out of the study.

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'The unexamined life is not worth living' - Socrates

Re:What about... by Cochonou · 2014-12-22 18:41 · Score: 1

You read technical articles and code listing at bedtime ?
In that case i'm not sure that this study really applies to you. The studied case is reading books within one hour to bedtime, for which refresh time or color do not matter at all.

e-ink or GTFO by Randle_Revar · 2014-12-22 18:46 · Score: 1

Reading books on an LCD device if fucking stupid anyway. Use e-ink, it is better for almost all books except certain technical ones (which mostly aren't that great as bedtime reading anyway).

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Climate Progress - Hell and High Water

Re:e-ink or GTFO by hooiberg · 2014-12-22 21:02 · Score: 1

Still, paper all the way, for me. :-)
Re:e-ink or GTFO by dunkelfalke · 2014-12-23 00:49 · Score: 1

It is not "fucking stupid", some people just don't want to possess a dozen of vaguely similar devices.

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"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Re:e-ink or GTFO by Gryle · 2014-12-23 01:51 · Score: 1

[cynic] This is Slashdot, where anyone who disagrees with you is obviously a moron. Otherwise, they'd share your opinion. [/cynic]

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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely sure about the universe - Einstein
Re:e-ink or GTFO by camazotz · 2014-12-23 10:13 · Score: 1

Guy probably has terrible eyesight issues or something and is incapable of externalizing the idea that not everyone has the same problem reading on tablets that he does. I have no problem with reading on my Nook HD+ vs. my e-ink readers.
Re:e-ink or GTFO by StarFace · 2014-12-24 08:26 · Score: 1

I am confused, the suggestion was to use an E Ink device for reading, not to buy a dozen (or presumably eleven if you already have a phone) different gadgets.

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V

Not surprising. by Techguy666 · 2014-12-22 18:57 · Score: 1

Seems like common sense, biologically. More directed lights and more intense lights hitting an eyeball probably tricks the mind into wakefulness; less directed or less intense lights is more conducive to sleep behaviour. Not all that surprising. Also, this study can't be entirely conclusive with only 12 subjects being tested... I'm just going to go "meh" for now.

oops. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-22 19:15 · Score: 1

It is 00:14 and I am in bed reading slashdot...

Re:oops. by thephydes · 2014-12-22 19:22 · Score: 1

sad

Statistic wonders by GlowingCat · 2014-12-22 20:11 · Score: 1

And if blue end brown eyed people are compared, you'll find that one group is more prominent to public urination.

Misleading summary/abstract by reve_etrange · 2014-12-22 20:25 · Score: 2

They used iPads, so this paper isn't really about e-readers in general, just tablets.

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.: Semper Absurda :.

Re:Misleading summary/abstract by HJED · 2014-12-23 12:33 · Score: 1

Most ereaders aren't backlit

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Blue light by Roodvlees · 2014-12-22 21:34 · Score: 1

Causes the body to suspend production of the sleepiness stuff. Or something like that. There's a way to change the screen color: https://justgetflux.com/

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Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!

Total integrated light by kanoalani · 2014-12-22 21:35 · Score: 1

The paper suggests that light prevents us from sleeping well, but does an e-reader emit more light than a reflective paper book with an ambient light source? It's hard to believe that it does; a typical bedside lamp is a few tens of watts (incandescent equivalent) while a phone or small tablet is in the ones. Even if this was real science, people who read for four hours before going to sleep are an odd group to study. In that group a 10 minute difference in falling asleep probably depends more on how much they enjoy the book than environmental factors. We could just as easily argue that transmissive book readers engage people better than their reflective counterparts.

Re:Total integrated light by nashv · 2014-12-23 02:52 · Score: 1

It's not wattage , it's the lumens that matter. I have worked with an IR-laser of a measly 3W that will burn through your tissue because of the way it is focused.
Ambient light is typically diffused. If you replaced that tablet with the actual light bulb that you kept staring at, I assure you, you will not fall asleep.

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Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.

Brightness controls? by rrohbeck · 2014-12-22 22:00 · Score: 1

If I read something at full brightness on my laptop I won't fall asleep either. Conversely, if I reduce the brightness to minimum over a minute or two I'll fall asleep soon.

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thegodmovie.com - watch it

Re:How about a traditional ebook? by MacTO · 2014-12-22 22:12 · Score: 1

This study doesn't really address that since it is based upon a very narrow selection of devices (i.e. the iPad). Indeed, none of the studies that I have encountered have addressed that because they are based upon a narrow range of technologies. I have seen anecdotes suggesting that eink based devices are less disruptive to sleep cycles, but my opinion on that is: if it works for you, great, but don't attribute it to anything more than wishful thinking and selection bias.

A study like this doesn't apply to eink based readers because it doesn't isolate the cause. Is it the intensity or spectrum of the light? Is it our response to the type of device in question (e.g. iPads are more exciting than ereaders)? Is it the difference between the screen brightness and ambient light? For all we know it has something to do with polarization or how the screen is refreshed. While some of the variables that I mentioned are dubious, they are still unexamined variables so we cannot make a comparison across a broader range of devices than those studied. (Then there is the sample size ...)

In Other News... by Kuroji · 2014-12-22 22:36 · Score: 4, Insightful

Related studies have found that the main reason light-emitting screens keep people from sleeping is because they don't ever fucking shut them off and the next thing they know it's 5:36 in the bloody morning!

Yeah me too by codeButcher · 2014-12-22 22:46 · Score: 2

I sometimes work into the night ("flow"). Other times I read a while in bed on my (big-screen) phone. I use f.lux on the computer, Bluelight Filter on android - other apps have been mentioned.

The science seems to be fairly well understood for a number of years, long enough to develop these apps. See e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M... for pointers, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C... may also be of interest (other effects than light on sleep).

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Another option by MrKaos · 2014-12-22 23:30 · Score: 1

You could just knock yourself unconscious with it.

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My ism, it's full of beliefs.

Re:Another option by Chrisq · 2014-12-23 02:37 · Score: 1

You could just knock yourself unconscious with it.
Or watch porn until you exhaust yourself

Not all tablets by itzly · 2014-12-23 00:45 · Score: 1

Taking a sleeping tablet to bed doesn't have the same effect apparently.

Re:What about... by AmiMoJo · 2014-12-23 01:21 · Score: 1

ePaper will be fine once we get extremely cheap networked readers. I remember scenes from Star Trek where they had a dozen padds on the table, and that's what you need with eReaders. A dozen of them, all displaying different parts of the same document. Networked to make it all seamless and easy.

ePaper devices are already pretty cheap... I think I paid Â£20 for one a while back. It's just the networking and software aspect we need to get right, and make them a bit bigger. Would be fantastic for textbooks and datasheets.

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const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC

Front-lit e-ink? by Chrisq · 2014-12-23 02:05 · Score: 1

Its a shame it doesn't comment on front-lit e-ink displays (e.g. paperwhite). I would think these would be better than backlit displays, but not as good as unlit displays or books,

Can we get some mod points for parent? by jeffb+(2.718) · 2014-12-23 03:28 · Score: 1

This is the first I'd heard of this potential risk from melatonin supplementation. I'd like to see this information more widely discussed.

Re:Can we get some mod points for parent? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-23 04:50 · Score: 1

It is widely discussed, but only by the people for whom it really matters. Look into the DSPS and N24 communities. Those are sleep disorders and those people keep on top of all the latest of everything relating to sleep as it directly effects their ability to live 'normally'.
As to the people popping melatonin pills to counter jet lag, there's no magic pill without side effects in any area of health, so why would melatonin pills be different? The data isn't hidden if you take a moment to look for it. Wikipedia does mention the possible eye damage, though oddly it doesn't mention that it can cause depression (anything that effects your sleep can cause or reduce depression. Depression is a tricky, complex bastard.)
1.5-3mg is a good dose to knock you out. The 'high' dosage has little effect on your circadian rhythm. The lower dosages of a drop to 1mg do more to effect your circadian rhythm, so it's good that jet lager don't take them. For those of us with sleep disorders, it's really annoying that we can't buy low dose melatonin and have to cut up those pills into 1/4ths. However, the higher doses won't screw with the uninformed/uncaring rhythms of the general population, so 3mg is a good amount to sell. Defiantly ignore the pills with more than 3.5mg. Those people are playing the "bigger is better" game to make you spend more. If 3.5mg isn't enough to make you tired, change your sleep habits and cut out the caffeine and stop becoming overstimulated. If you still need more than 3.5mg, then your body can't process melatonin correctly and you probably already know you have a sleep disorder. If you didn't know that, then yes you likely have one. Go rejoice that you're not a lazy asshole who can never get to sleep/up on time and are tired all day long with all the bad effects of chronic sleep loss. It's not your fault. But now that you know that, it is your fault if you don't look into the related treatments and don't use them.
Re:Can we get some mod points for parent? by Cinnamon+Beige · 2014-12-23 09:04 · Score: 1

Supplements are basically unregulated, so doing your own research is a must--stick the name of what is in the supplement into PubMed and check over MedlinePlus, as the first is meant to be used by researchers (jargon-heavy but the bleeding edge will be listed there) and the latter is meant to educate the general public. Make sure you go into the advanced search on PubMed and set it to only look at either keywords or the title and abstract, though; that'll keep the results close to what you want.
That said, an annoyingly significant percentage of people do believe that magic pills without side effects exist--many people may not even realize this, with it only showing through their behavior. ("Let's Mix Meds & Booze" is a classic.)
Either infrequent high doses or frequent low doses seem to be relatively safe, as far as I can tell; it's typically the best way to bet, at least. Somebody who is popping the high dose regularly, without having checked with a doctor, does need to see one--and if they're doing it for jet lag, consider one of the alternates such as timed light exposure/avoidance outlined in this article or elsewhere. (I have no idea if they can be used with other sleep disorders, though I would certainly hope somebody's at least checked!)

I don't have this problem. by wcrowe · 2014-12-23 03:46 · Score: 1

I enjoy the Kindle app on my iPad and read in bed every night before I go to sleep. Occasionally, I fall asleep while reading. Sometimes I read paper books too. I have noticed no difference in my sleep patterns, and I sleep quite satisfactorily.

A couple of things come to mind. First, even when I read with my tablet, I still have the lamp on, just like I would with a paper book. That may make a difference. Second, is it possible that the content is different when using a tablet for most people. That is to say, if you're reading the news, or facebook on your tablet before you sleep, perhaps it is the CONTENT that is bothering you and keeping you awake.

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Proverbs 21:19

Let me rephrase that... by Sir_Eptishous · 2014-12-23 03:50 · Score: 1

a study has shown that people who read text on a tablet before bed are douchebags

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We play the game with the bravery of being out of range

Re: Always good to have confirmation of the obviou by cyberchondriac · 2014-12-23 04:13 · Score: 1

Huh.. I read my Nexus 7 almost every night, I've never had a problem sleeping, but I'll give Twilight a shot anyway. I could use a little extra screen dimming (even if the blue wavelengths don't seem to bother me).

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Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.

Four Hours of Reading? by shambalagoon · 2014-12-23 04:18 · Score: 2

In the study the people read for four hours before sleeping. I love reading as much as anybody, but is this a realistic scenario? I'd be more interested to see the sleep disruption from 30 minutes to an hour of reading on light-emitting screens before sleeping.

Re:Four Hours of Reading? by PPH · 2014-12-23 04:53 · Score: 2

Four hours of H.P. Lovecraft will keep anyone awake.

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Have gnu, will travel.
Re:Four Hours of Reading? by sound+vision · 2014-12-23 08:03 · Score: 1

You might only use the tablet for 30-60 minutes, but myself, most of the previous 4 hours were already spent looking into various bright screens (a little better now with f.lux).

Re:What about... by X0563511 · 2014-12-23 05:17 · Score: 1

A dozen of them, all displaying different parts of the same document.

Why? What does that give you?

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For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...

Re:What about... by Fishchip · 2014-12-23 05:59 · Score: 1

Lots of ereaders.

Especially the Kindle Fire by orgelspieler · 2014-12-23 07:08 · Score: 1

We won a Fire in a raffle, so I put the next book of a series I've been reading on it. It works fine during the day and on the can, but it's awful right before bed. Even on its lowest brightness setting, it feels like staring into the sun (probably why it chews through battery so fast). Anybody know how to get Kindle books on an old Sony e-reader? Yay LCD!

Can anyone recommend an app that... by euroq · 2014-12-23 07:44 · Score: 1

Can anyone recommend an Android app that can filter the screen by either dimming it past what it normally does with the built-in settings, or removes certain light frequencies?

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Just because the U.S. is a republic does not mean it is not a democracy. Democracy/republic are not mutually exclusive.

Re:What about... by mark-t · 2014-12-23 08:35 · Score: 1

I don't know if you noticed or not, but my comment was a response to a particular question that was the parent of my own above post, and was not simply posted as commentary upon the article itself. That poster asked about using epaper, and I simply explained why epaper might not always be adequate. If my post is offtopic, then so is asking questions about the viability of alternative technologies in the first place.

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File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'

Re:f.lux by FatLittleMonkey · 2014-12-23 08:40 · Score: 1

f.lux is available for iDevices, but not Android.

For Android devices there's nearly identical products like Twilight. Plus a thousand apps that dim or invert the display without affecting the colour temp.

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Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.

Re:What about... by david_thornley · 2014-12-23 09:33 · Score: 1

I've tried more technical stuff on my eInk reader, and it doesn't work. It's great for reading something from start to finish, as long as I don't care about illustrations, and I read a whole lot of things that way, including anything I'd want to read around bedtime. It's lousy with PDF files, since it isn't big enough for most of them, and Calibre is iffy on converting PDF to ePub.

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"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes

Re:What about... by angel'o'sphere · 2014-12-23 10:41 · Score: 1

Overview! It is just the same as having the same source code file open in multiple views in your IDE ... oh, you never do that? Ah, you are not a coder? Fine!

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Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.

Light-Emitting Screens Before Bedtime by janenichols · 2014-12-23 21:13 · Score: 1

Good Article!! The sleeping habit changes with the electronic devices usage before bed time.many times this leads to vision problems as well.

Re:What about... by nobodie · 2014-12-28 07:48 · Score: 1

I have used e-ink displays for years, actually more than 15 now (Sony PRS, the first one was my first) and a high quality e-reader whips butt. The iRex, from Europe, was used by pilots (for example) to hold their logs as well as their flight manuals instead of rolling the kilos of paper required for that task. Obviously scrolling/paging back and forth was important for them as well.
The problem is the common American mistake of assuming that the cheapest is the best. The iRex not only had two screens, but also cost $900.00 and came with an integral cover and other goodies (I forget the whole list). It was quite impressive.

Can you get one now? DIIK, but if you can't, I will blame the Americanization of commerce for that, too;)

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Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.

Re:What about... by nobodie · 2014-12-28 07:54 · Score: 1

You are using an e-reader that won't read PDF? Probably using some kind of DRM trash I guess. As I said above, it is the Americanization of commerce (the cheapest is always the best) that is destroying this particular market. e-readers can be cheap, for the romance/vampire novel set, but if you are going to need to do higher level work then there should be higher quality tools that meet your needs.

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Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.

Re:What about... by david_thornley · 2014-12-29 05:38 · Score: 1

No DRM problems. I've got plenty of Project Gutenberg ePubs on it. Nor is it a matter of going for the cheapest eReader. It's a matter of technical books not being really compatible with other things I want.

My Nook eReader uses eInk, because I find that the best way for me to read text, so it doesn't do color or really fast page refreshes. It's small and easy to use, but PDF doesn't reflow worth a darn, so PDFs of full-sized pages don't work well.

A full-sized iPad or similar tablet computer would doubtless work much better for technical PDFs, but I'd find it less convenient to carry around, heavier in use, and not as easy on my eyes. At that point, I'd rather use paper books.

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"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes

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Study: Light-Emitting Screens Before Bedtime Disrupt Sleep

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