AirAsia Flight Goes Missing Between Indonesia and Singapore

iONiUM (530420) writes As reported by many news sources, yet another plane has lost contact during a trip. This comes on the heels of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 which is still missing, and Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, which was shot down. From ABC's coverage: Sixteen children and one infant were among the passengers. At a press conference this morning, Indonesian officials said the plane was several hours past the time when its fuel would have been exhausted. The six-year-old aircraft was on the submitted flight plan but requested a deviation because of enroute weather before communication with the aircraft was lost. The plane was under the control of the Indonesian Air Traffic Control and had been in the air for about 42 minutes when contact was lost, AirAsia said.

Comments

who cares how many children

[Anonymous Coward]

were on the flight, as if adult lifes did not matter just as much.

Re:who cares how many children

[Anonymous Coward]

No, no. Children's lives are the ones that aren't worth as much. The idea is, 155 adults were on board, but at least the other seventeen people were only children and infants.

Re:who cares how many children

[hamster_nz]

Let me guess, you don't have children? Come back in 20 years and see what you think then.

I am sure that in the fullness of time you will understand why loss of ones so young is more of a tragedy.

Re: who cares how many children

[Anonymous Coward]

GP would have to get out of mama's cellar first,

Re: who cares how many children

[Anonymous Coward]

Children have more time left to live. So, children's lives ARE worth more.

Now, when they say WOMEN, that's where there's an obvious sexist bias. Women's lives AREN'T worth more than men's.

Re: who cares how many children

[Anonymous Coward]

You know the difference between "You don't have children" and "You haven't got children"?

Re: who cares how many children

[K. S. Kyosuke]

Don't women have more time to live, too?

Re: who cares how many children

[Anonymous Coward]

Children have more time left to live. So, children's lives ARE worth more.

Now, when they say WOMEN, that's where there's an obvious sexist bias. Women's lives AREN'T worth more than men's.

Women have longer life expectancies than men. So by your own logic, yes they are worth more.

Re: who cares how many children

[thegarbz]

No. Children are underdeveloped and require a considerable amount of investment before they create value. Compared to adults where the investment has already been made and who now cannot pay it back, children are worth less.

Re: who cares how many children

[Anonymous Coward]

Talk to an insurance actuary
Adults have a higher payoff amount than children or infants
Within the group of 'adults', ones with more earning potential have a higher payoff and those with notoriety and lawyers have the highest payoff

Re:who cares how many children

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a father. He's also family. Should I care less about him?

Loss of life early is a tragedy regardless if its a kind old man or one of your little brats.

Re: who cares how many children

[zoom-ping]

Statistically yes.

Re: who cares how many children

[Anonymous Coward]

The statistics are skewed though, because off themselves young a lot more through their risky behaviors. And even ignoring that, the difference is only a year or two longer lifespan, so little that it's essentially meaningless.

(Posting as AC in case the feminist army comes out of the woodwork and downmods me into oblivion)

Re:who cares how many children

[AK Marc]

Meh, I have children, and I think the "appeal on behalf of the children" calls are stupid and illogical. Having children doesn't give you brain damage, and I find it hilarious all the dumb parents who think that.

Re:who cares how many children

[Pikoro]

Sorry, but I've never heard "get fucked" uttered by someone from the USA. You appear to be an Aussie, mate.

Re: who cares how many children

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

What's the value of an asshole that spends his evening judging the value of others he has never met?

Re: who cares how many children

[Anonymous Coward]

Women's lives AREN'T worth more than men's.

All human history disagrees with you. It is still primal instincts that make us put women in lifeboats before men, save women first from burning buildings etc. etc. Why? Because the number of uteruses is what matters for the survival of the population. One (very lucky) man can impregnate a practically unlimited number of women but a woman can only carry one fetus at a time (the exceptions are too rare to matter). If there are too few women in the population, it's guaranteed to be the end of it. This does of course not make it right but it's the reality.

Re: who cares how many children

[ScentCone]

What's the value of an asshole that spends his evening judging the value of others he has never met?

You mean, like you're doing right now? Good question.

Re: who cares how many children

[drinkypoo]

No. Children are underdeveloped and require a considerable amount of investment before they create value. Compared to adults where the investment has already been made and who now cannot pay it back, children are worth less.

Children have potential and with considerable investment may create value, compared to adults who have already proven that they lack potential and will never do anything more significant in their lifetime than pollute.

Re: who cares how many children

[Anonymous Coward]

Children have more time left to live. So, children's lives ARE worth more.

No. It's the difference between the invest to get the being to be productive, and the productivity expected over the remaining life time. Basically, value(human being) = (expected productivity until end of live) - (efforts required after end of productivity) - (invest required to reach productivity).

The obvious peak points are
- person just reaching productivity (zero further invest required)
- person just ending productivity (no further productivity, negative value)

So the value of children isn't much different than persons in their late 20s or early 30s (estimated).

Re: who cares how many children

[fustakrakich]

Next time you bump into an insurance adjuster, you can ask him.

Re: who cares how many children

[Anonymous Coward]

Techically asking is not judging, and 'asshole' is not a value judgement. So, no.

Re:who cares how many children

[ledow]

Try watching it on the news.

In Italy: "There were no Italians on board" x 5 within the space of a 2 minute news article.

In England: Even BBC News has a headline "Only one Brit onboard".

The crash isn't news if they're foreign or old. Same as everything else they portray on the news. War in the Middle East that involves no European/American countries? Barely mentioned. The US says something about a war in the Middle East? News article. The US is IN the Middle East, can't move for "news" of it, down to deaths of individual soldiers (an unprecedented coverage of a war).

TV News doesn't care about the news. They care about making you go "Oh my God!" when you see it, so you keep watching through the adverts.

Re:who cares how many children

[ColdWetDog]

(Looks around. Seems wetter and colder than Australasia usually is.)

It's popular up here in Alaska. Not sure just what that means, but there you have it....

Re: who cares how many children

[umghhh]

So we miss vital information - how many lawyers were on the missing plane.
I can imagine, that in not so distant future the news on such sad occasion would look like this: A plane X from Y to Z went missing with N people on board of which M were lawyers. If M were close to N (conference in some nice brothel in Prague etc) there would be additional info about an official day of mourning.

Re: who cares how many children

[umghhh]

You know of course that talking about reality in such politicized subject is not going any good to the moding situation of your post, do you?

Re: who cares how many children

[Anonymous Coward]

I actually had this thought on a recent flight. I got stuck in an exit row, with two women and a baby. It dawned on me that, in the event the cabin lost pressure, what do you do with four people and three oxygen masks?

I have people who depend on my income. Outside of family, I co-own a business, which employs a number of people, who in turn are depended upon by others. Our work allows companies to do a variety of income-generated things, which throws the net even wider.

The baby? The baby's got pooping itself totally nailed, I admit, but other than that? Ain't got nothin' in terms of societal worth. And I'm pretty sure I could poop myself if I really needed to.

I've come to terms with the fact that screw women and children first, I'm securing my own mask before assisting others. Also, if I ever have kids, they're getting their own seats, regardless of age.

Re: who cares how many children

[t_ban]

No. Children are underdeveloped and require a considerable amount of investment before they create value. Compared to adults where the investment has already been made and who now cannot pay it back, children are worth less.

So unless a child holds the promise of creating 'value' in the future, it is worthless to you? How about children with disabilities? Or old people who have spent all their 'value'? Or adults without any particular skill?
It is a great misfortune of modern Western civilization that power is concentrated in the hands of people like you - those who think economic value is the only value.

Re: who cares how many children

[Anonymous Coward]

"Children have more time left to live." Nope. This argument assumes that everyone has some span of life to live before dying. That's false .... understandable and empathic, but from a purely biological basis, stupidly false.

The human being that becomes "you" is only in one of three states: doesn't exist (aren't born yet), has been born and is alive, or is dead (back to non-existence). Human beings die. They could die when they're 5 or 10 or 70 or 80 or 110, or they could die minutes or hours after being born. No one has a span of life or time they "should have had" that is lost when they die, they just die. Children die, adults die. Sometimes suddenly in accidents, sometimes after an illness, sometimes of old age. To suggest that someone "had all their life ahead of them" is logically silly and biologically wrong. But everyone makes this mistake because of our belief that there is a future beyond just the moment we're living in. Your belief that children are "more valuable" is borne out word wide though. In ethics studies when a subject is given the moral choice of accidentally killing 100 children or 100 elderly people, 95%+ of us will still choose the elderly to die. But what if those 100 children a;; would have turned into murders, and one of the elderly folks was just on the verge of solving the riddle of cancer? The future doesn't exist until it is created and happens. So you don't know the value of anyone's life.

It's nice to *hope* that every human being born will all have a long life where we've found a meaning for our lives, but it's irrational and sadly wrong. Everyone's life is of equal value, to say a child's life is more valuable than their grandparents is wrong.

Re: who cares how many children

[Anonymous Coward]

I've come to terms with the fact that screw women and children first, I'm securing my own mask before assisting others. Also, if I ever have kids, they're getting their own seats, regardless of age.

You've never watched/listened to the safety information, have you? Because you're explicitly TOLD to first SECURE YOUR OWN MASK before assisting others. You know, if you just paid attention for 30 seconds and learned something ONCE you wouldn't have your big, public wrestle-match with your conscience only to come to the same conclusion as the airlines tell millions of people a day...

Re: who cares how many children

[LynnwoodRooster]

So we miss vital information - how many lawyers were on the missing plane. I can imagine, that in not so distant future the news on such sad occasion would look like this: A plane X from Y to Z went missing with N people on board of which M were lawyers. If M were close to N (conference in some nice brothel in Prague etc) there would be additional info about an official day of mourning.

Mourning? I think the situation works out that as M approaches N, the amount of partying increases, and if M happens to equal N then a national holiday is created.

Re: who cares how many children

[Anonymous Coward]

What's the value of an asshole that spends his evening judging the value of others he has never met?

Much higher than your value, you pretentious holier-than-thou sack of human waste.

Re:who cares how many children

[david_thornley]

The wording in TFS implies that adults don't matter at all. If it had said something like "5 crew and 116 passengers, including sixteen children and a baby", that'd be cool. It would acknowledge all lives lost, with some additional description for human interest.

I haven't looked at news reports, so I don't know if TFS is unusually egregious here (not unusual for /., really).

Re:who cares how many children

[itzly]

The crash is still news, but nonetheless people in Italy or England probably would like to know that none of their friends and family were involved. I'm guessing you'd want to know that too in a case like that.

Re: who cares how many children

[Anonymous Coward]

In earlier days one of the constraints on a population's (make that village, kingdom, etc) ability to expand was the number of children women could birth before they died (often in childbirth). Losing a fertile woman meant a real decrease in the capability of the population to grow. Since men do not have the same biological limits as women in making children, losing a man in the village doesn't have the same impact. So traditionally women were protected. Even now, population growth and decline rates are linked to the number of children women have on average -- the number of children men have is not figured into the equation. The bias you point out is real, but it is an old, biologically based bias,as are many of the values a society holds.

Re: who cares how many children

[hey!]

That's an interesting take on the idea. There may be, almost certainly is an "optimal" point of view where the balance of future carrying cost, productive potential, experience and future work expectancy.

If you value experience the highest, then older people are the most valuable. Children have highest carrying cost, least experience, but the highest adaptability and future earning potential.

Now you could take a *market* approach to valuing lives by holding an auction to see how much people will contribute to save a life. In that case I have no doubt that children would win hands down. In a sense we do this already; charities which rescue children have a distinct advantage over those that target adults or the elderly.

Re: who cares how many children

[x0ra]

Children are more easily replaceable, and the loss of experience is much less. If a newborn dies, that's just a few weeks wasted, if a 40 years old dies, it's 40 years worth of experience wasted.

Re: who cares how many children

[x0ra]

Socially, it is. Though, the social value of an "asshole" is undervalue compared to the biological value of being able to get rid of element the body cannot process. In other words, I'm glad to be an asshole.

Re: who cares how many children

[x0ra]

All in all, children will turn into adults and will, all things considered, not do anything significant other than pollute.

Re: who cares how many children

[x0ra]

Evolution had a wonderful way to handle child with disabilities, though, in between, we fucked it up and allowed them to now potentially procreate...

Re: who cares how many children

[x0ra]

Only if you assume your retirement is gonna be a loss, which is not always true, especially in third world countries where you are likely to die while still being productive.

Re:who cares how many children

[x0ra]

This doesn't means emotion the person will have will be rational. By definition, they aren't

Re: who cares how many children

[thegarbz]

True. But now we run in to the problem with all economic models, they rely on assumptions of an ideal standard, whether is be a standard market, standard competition, or in this case a standard person. The GP could have been right, maybe all the adults on the plane were worthless unemployed drains on social security and all the children were potential future Einsteins. Or maybe it's all reversed. That's the problem with potential.

The market approach does not determine the value of something to the general world. It determines the value of something to a specific person, and in this case children will always win because of an emotional attachment. The world's media and politicians have already proven that. The market is often not the best person to decide what they need, that is why some insurance systems are mandatory (i.e. where I live we are forced to pay for ambulance insurance cover through the power bill and forced to take out 3rd party liability insurance when we register our cars).

The market is run by people, and people in the grand sense are who caused things like the global financial crisis. We are poor judges or risk and live in a society that promotes greed.

Re: who cares how many children

[Anonymous Coward]

They don't.

Also, kids don't have the choice to fly. So their deaths are beyond the control adults have of a choice of taking a flight.

Re: who cares how many children

[Spy Handler]

Now, when they say WOMEN, that's where there's an obvious sexist bias. Women's lives AREN'T worth more than men's.

History and evolution would say you're wrong.

After a disaster where a large percentage of your tribe/village are wiped out, who is more valuable among the survivors? Women capable of childbearing would be the most valuable, because you need to replace the dead people with new babies.

You can still see this in action today in endangered species management. Ask the wildlife experts which is more valuable, the male or female Siberian white tiger. Kill the male and you're killing one white tiger. Kill the female and you might be killing 5 or 6 (not only the cubs that won't be born in the future, but also existing cubs that depend on the mother for survival might die)

Re: who cares how many children

[Anonymous Coward]

But they require maybe like 10 more years of investment while the adult was already probably working at a high efficiency already. lets call it a tie.

Re: who cares how many children

[Anonymous Coward]

4 people, 3 masks is the issue.

Re: who cares how many children

[antifoidulus]

Wow, I didn't realize Jonathan Swift posted on slashdot.

Re:who cares how many children

[larryjoe]

Why shouldn't the news to targeted to what is of greatest interest to the viewers of that particular newscast? Italians should be interested to know if any Italians were on board, and that interest doesn't necessarily indicate that Italian lives are of greater worth than non-Italian lives. If my friend or family member might have been on that flight, the importance of that piece of information trumps all other facets of the situation.

I find this type of sentiment to be fairly common, for example, when Europeans complain about the scarcity of soccer coverage on American TV news, with the implication that subjects of high global interest as gauged statistically should be of interest to all people.

Re:who cares how many children

[Anonymous Coward]

How exactly telling how many brits/italians were in the crash would answer that question?

Most people have foreign friends or family members.

Re: who cares how many children

[Anonymous Coward]

>What's the value of an asshole that spends his evening judging the value of others he has never met?

It depends on what he weighs, and whether you have a car with the liposuction powered-by-fat option.

Re:who cares how many children

[Anonymous Coward]

The Western mass media are merely propaganda organs of the state now. There are no more journalists. There is no more reporting. None. Nada. Zip.

If you aren't at least getting news from the Net and a number of news sources expressly declaimed by your own government or your own mass media itself, you are an uninformed sheep collaborating with evil.

Western government now use propaganda to further their war and imperial aims. Some of it is a mad scramble for finite resources - all the stuff about Peak Oil etc. - except for the useful idiots at lower and middle management, they understand it's true. That they torture and commit crimes of humanity, crimes of war and treason, they understand this too. That the entire financial system is set to collapse due to egregious and fatal decision made in the 1970s and since, they understand, and they claw at their power and wealth so tenuously that absolutely no moral barriers exist anymore. Includes the freedoms of speech and the press. They don't need to always be so blatant but you certainly have noticed they relax their guard and gotten sloppier over the years with how blatantly they lie and rend the truth or omit the truth.

A US Citizen

Re:who cares how many children

[ledow]

Precisely what I was going to reply.

Not only that, people had dual-nationalities, the nationalities might be wrong (how many people were on the Greek ferry this week? I heard at least a hundred different answers over the course of a couple of days).

And if you think one of your friends might be on there, you'll be concerned whether or not the nationalities are right, surely? What would be infinitely more important would be, say, a copy of the list of names that they show you on the news being pored over by crying relatives, no? But a definitive list of names doesn't create drama, except for relative reactions.

Report news or don't report news. The list of names is fact and news that you could use to check if your friends are involved. That there were no particular race / nationality / age / gender on board is worthless when you have a list of names you could publish for those interested, and may be so inaccurate as to be worthless anyway.

How do they know there's no Brits, say, if people have dual nationality, have flown from another country, hold two passports, etc. unless they have a fucking list of names of who was involved - detailed down to their passport and original country of origin?

Re:who cares how many children

[Pikoro]

I live in Alaska. Never heard it uttered here. Strange.

Developing Story

[spacefight]

With regular updates: http://www.aeroinside.com/item...

Re:Developing Story

[TitusC3v5]

Why is this on Slashdot? It isn't even remotely news for nerds, nor is it stuff that matters. If I want to read about this sort of thing I'll go over to BBC.

Re:Developing Story

[Anonymous Coward]

Because it was submitted by a reader and then voted up in the recent submissions page.

Re:Developing Story

[geekymachoman]

Slashdot - News for nerds, stuff that matters.

So... airplane crashes and other huge international events is not what matters to a nerd ? To a nerd the only thing that matters is C, Linux, ASM and Stephen Hawking ? Talk about narrow mindedness.

Why is there one of you commenting every time airplane crashes ?

Re:Developing Story

[Anonymous Coward]

- An airplane crash isn't a huge international event.

- Nerds care about plane crashes, but so does everyone else. "News for nerds" should be news that's especially relevant to nerds, otherwise we might as well be on a mainstream news site.

Re:Developing Story

[Richard_at_work]

I read it on the BBC and came here for the discussion - as with any story, if you don't like it, skip it. Nothing is forcing you to read or take part in comments, so why bitch and moan about Slashdot covering something you personally don't like.

Re:Developing Story

[Anonymous Coward]

- An aeroplane crash is indeed a huge international event. You may notice that it is a top story on many major news organisations. Or you may not if your case of stupidity has gone full-blown.

- News for Nerds doesn't imply "and not covered by major news organisations". There is no reason whatsoever that a nerd news site cannot cover mainstream stories but with a slant (for example that nerds may be more interested in knowing what happened than the "human interest" of no-show passengers whose family got sick and so were "saved".

Re:Developing Story

[Anonymous Coward]

Just email refunds@slashdot.org for your refund.

Re: Developing Story

[kenh]

What is the relevant 'slant' here?

Re:Developing Story

[ledow]

There are children starving in Africa.

There are still forced marriages around the globe.

There are female circumcisions taking place this isn't.

Unless you want to be a "ANY NEWS!" site, this isn't the place for those stories. It doesn't mean they aren't important, or don't matter. It means that it's not appropriate for a tech-news site unless, specifically, there is tech involved in a non-trivial way.

The tech side of this story is "a plane". That's about it.

You want the non-tech stories, go elsewhere, or tell us where a PURELY tech news site is.

Re:Developing Story

[ihtoit]

Stephen is currently Director of Research at the Department of Applied Mathematics and Theoretical Physics (DAMTP) and Founder of the Centre for Theoretical Cosmology (CTC) at the University of Cambridge. He has been Principal Investigator of the COSMOS National Cosmology Supercomputer since 1997. Stephen is also the Emeritus Lucasian Professor for Cambridge.

In other words, he is probably smarter than every single numbered account on this website combined.

Re:Developing Story

[phayes]

In a word? Timothy

Re:Developing Story

[fustakrakich]

Why is this on Slashdot?

Because Airbus makes shitty Angle Of Attack probes (caution:pdf). And if I remember right, they don't even provide an indicator for the pilots! Angle of attack is one of the most basic and most important things to know.

Oh, did you mean computer nerds? Well, unfortunately Airbus (and probably the newest Boeings) is controlled by a computer that can't be overridden when it suffers from bad data input.

Re:Developing Story

[CRC'99]

I read it on the BBC and came here for the discussion - as with any story, if you don't like it, skip it. Nothing is forcing you to read or take part in comments, so why bitch and moan about Slashdot covering something you personally don't like.

People bitch and moan because that is what the internet has devolved to. Look at any forum or discussion site and you'll see the same thing, day in, day out.

The Internet was supposed to be one of mankinds greatest achievements - yet looking at it now, it makes me want to punch random strangers in the face. Social media constantly reminds me how dumb people are, and forums how arrogant humans can be.

Re:Developing Story

[jbwolfe]

Because Airbus makes shitty Angle Of Attack probes

It was iced pitot tubes that caused problems for AF447. Thales was the manufacturer of the pitot tubes, not Airbus. No modern transport category aircraft come equipped to display AOA anymore. It is no longer relevant in digital flight displays as the quality of flight parameters and method of display is so much better for pilots. However, AOA is still measured and provided to flight control computers.

...controlled by a computer that can't be overridden when it suffers from bad data input.

Completely incrrect. When the computers suffer from lack of information or "bad data" they revert to a fail safe mode; alternate law first then direct law. Basically they get out of the way, not "can't be overridden".

Re:Developing Story

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Yeah, you can tell how unknown he is by the fact a movie was just released about him.

I wish contrarianism didn't beocome so popular on this site. I mean, really, taking a shot at Hawking?

Re:Developing Story

[BForrester]

All of the examples you've given here are relevant, pressing issues, but they aren't news.

Re:Developing Story

[slacktide]

The statement regarding aOA display is incorrect. All current production Boeing aircraft can be configured to display current AOA, target AOA, and limitations in the top right corner of the primary flight display. Whether this option is displayed or used depends on the specific airline's operating certificate and FAA approved procedures specific to that airline. http://www.boeing.com/commerci... The illustration above is old, so it does not mention that this feature is also on the 787 ( which i have flown with AOA active) and on the 747-8 ( which I have not flown but have seen the AOA feature used from the jumpseat)

Re:Developing Story

[fustakrakich]

Basically they get out of the way, not "can't be overridden".

If you read the AD, the only method of getting them 'out of the way' is to disable (turn off) all but one of them, and even that doesn't look like a guarantee.

Re:Developing Story

[jbwolfe]

I stand corrected. Perhaps it would have been better to say almost no modern transport category aircraft come equipped to display AOA anymore. While this may be an option that Boeing have begun offering (that article I believe dates from 2012), I have never seen one in use. Do you work for a US certificated carrier- BizJet contract maybe? After looking through our flight manuals for the 787, I see that we do not have AOA display on that type. We are the only US part 121 carrier to operate 787s. I have flown 737,747,757,767,777 and A320 types, but none have AOA and I have not encountered them while jumpseating. I still find AOA irrelevant to modern cockpits- at least transport category cockpits. What's your opinion of AOA presented as part of PFD, useful or not? Target AOA might have some relevance but not when max L/D can be calculated and displayed on speed tape or FMC.

Re:Developing Story

[fustakrakich]

Have you forgotten your basic stick and rudder? Angle of attack is everything. It applies to the biguns as much as any Piper Cub out there. Personally, nothing would make me feel more secure than having a direct readout, as opposed to deducing it from airspeed and density and wing loading. If I keep the wing below a specific angle of attack, I can be certain it will not stall regardless the speed or altitude, just want to keep enough of both to reach the runway :-)

Re:Developing Story

[jrumney]

Why is this on Slashdot?

Ever considered the possibility of a software bug that strikes under certain input conditions at the very moment a plane crosses the equator? I know there was a similar issue caught early in the development of the F16 (under simulation), but is there a possibility of such a bug making it into production if the input conditions were rare enough?

Re: Developing Story

[hattable]

Maybe not as apparent in this story as they have started finding wreckage, but the 'slant' on 370 was exactly how the search area was being determined.

Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is that so important? Are the other passengers just some randoms we shouldn't give a shit about? Not that we truly do, anyway.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[smittyoneeach]

Because children are presumed innocent, and tragedy befalling innocence turns the emotional value of the story up eleventy times.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

I bet you don't consider children all that innocent when in the uterus, do you?

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

I make a point of having several abortions a year after having sex with my gay lover, just because of morons like you.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[topcoder1]

Why is that so important? Are the other passengers just some randoms we shouldn't give a shit about? Not that we truly do, anyway.

yeah because if it's your children you would care, not that you have any.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

Basically, yes. We are totally illogical and driven by instincts to protect children, even though logically the death of an adult is a bigger tragedy as it takes longer to replace him or her. Especially an infant should - by pure logic - be a shrug event as it takes one year to make a new one and there are no accomplishments to replicate.

But our biology begs to differ. To your genes, your survival is secondary. That's why we age and die once we're beyond birthing and parenting age, because when you (statistically speaking) won't reproduce anymore or protect the results of such, your genes stop giving a fuck.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[thegarbz]

Or in simpler language: "Think of the children!"

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

Like all those girls kidnapped from school in Africa some months ago?

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[AK Marc]

That's a lie. I have children, and care no less for adults than I do children.

Re: Sixteen children and one infant

[topcoder1]

Good for you, it's amazing how my fellow slashdoters care more about logic than common decency and common sense. Speaking as a very logical software engineer.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

I make a point of having several abortions a year after having sex with my gay lover, just because of morons like you.

This is what deserves those "just spewed coffee all over my keyboard from laughing so hard" comments. But then I notice most Slashdotters are rather Ned Flanders in terms of what the groupthink will accept as funny. Good humor isn't a regurgitated meme we've all heard before. Good humor will usually offend somebody. When that person gets offended it's even more humorous.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Adults have lived some of their life. Kids have missed out on things most believe everbody should be able to do before they die, like their first kiss.

Everybody here actually understands this, I have no idea why you all picked now to suddenly act like you're Mr. Spock.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

Men are just seed carries, we have the man-made (through physical violence) illusion that women can't do without us, but the reality is as males we are lucky to be around let alone in a dominant position, nature pretty much proves this as well as highlighting that our species oddity isn't unique in the animal kingdom, a constant in nature is the ability to kick-start and go through the cycle of reproduction, females in our species have that ability, we don't, that makes them a bit special.

As Males our only function is to reproduce by passing on our seed, beyond that function we haven't actually got anything special to offer, physically we seem stronger sure, but a women has the same biology and body and can be adapted to most physical tasks just like us, we've got nothing other than a pair of balls to offer in the big poker game of life. For all intents and purposes the difference between the two sexes stops at the womb and gonads, everything else is equal. Their depth of skin (layers thin), variation in their rib cage and hip structure is an aside, the rest of their anatomy is identical.

Children come first, sure I can make another one but I cannot make that one again, a life is unique, you don't need to turn to religion to see that, if you look at humans as numbers (and cold logic) its easy to dismiss a life, but every life is unique, but, some are worth more in the evolutionary sense, children might require an investment of time but they become productive for a lot longer than an existing adult by virtue of the fact that the adult is well into their life cycle, and its most likely that the knowledge or capability of a single adult can be replaced easily by a child at a point in time, a child can become productive at a very early age, 4-5 and they are ready for menial chores, on upwards they pretty much replace the function of men outside of anything that requires serious adult physical exertion (hunting), which, isn't exclusively the realm of adult men, women could just as easily replace us in that role, as an added bonus they can reproduce and rear, that means they come 2nd, leaving us seed carries last.

If there was one Male, Female and Child on the planet left, then we have to change to a new model were survival of the species is urgently required, in which case the child comes last, the two adults come first, lose one adult and we're gone, lose the child, we can make another one. When we're got enough adults to support the loss of a male adult, the child becomes numero uno again, the female comes in 2nd and the men fall to the back of the line as we're the most replaceable. That male child you saved will replace the male adult in time, it isn't a big loss, lose a womb and you've broken the reproduction chain.

My ten cents as anon :-)

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

"Things ahead of you in life" only works if you believe in fate or some other version of pre-ordained future. As the reality is, there is no evidence for such a thing. There is nothing that substantiates your argument that there are things everybody should be able to do. More importantly, unless you augment your assumption into a personal "promised future", there's not even a reason to complain because the replacement child will most likely have those experiences.

You seem to think that I don't understand personal tragedy. You don't see that my argument is simply that it is dishonest if not outright evil to weigh one life higher than another based on purely impersonal statistical numbers such as age. Many adults also missed out on things, you know?

It's the same evil that makes people save women and children first, as if the life of a man were somehow less important. The root is, of course, the assumption that women and children are weak and cannot save themselves - so at least it's an equal-opportunity insult to dignity and worth.

I stand by my words that a childs life is in no way more valuable or important than an adult life. I also amend my position to say that I will consider accomplishments made to be more valuable than potential futures to be had or not. It's stupid if not outright evil to say the death of a doctor or engineer who saves or improves lives on a daily basis matters less than that of a child because it didn't yet experience its first kiss.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, Mr Logic.

I personally think it's sadder because a child has not had the opportunity to pursue happiness or callings, nor to make their mark on their world, nor to be remembered for decisions they made as an adult, nor to be remembered by descendents. Rather than a mark or impression, they will merely leave a fleeting shadow largely in the memories of their older relatives or parents.

If you don't think that way, it's fine. However anyone who doesn't think the way you do still has a perfect right to think however they like, and it seems apparent that most people don't think as you do.

What part of that don't you understand?

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[angel'o'sphere]

The children I know are full of mischief ... not sure if that counts as innocent ;D

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

Because the chances of a random child being a bitter, unfulfilled, pissant fuck like you are much less than for a random adult.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[fsck1nhippies]

Your example works the exact same way against women if it was a female child.

Re: Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

Common decency and common sense are misnomers invented in the minds of the people dumb enough to believe there is some "Objectivist" universal experience of reality. It's not a surprise Objectivism can be attributed to Ayn Rand since it's not substantially different from Egoism, and the trappings of Ayn Rand's psuedo-philosophy make it repulsive to all but the most self-centered and ignorant people.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

Everybody here actually understands this,

Except for the fifty percent who are posting counter to your position, you overly-emotional dumbass.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

But our biology begs to differ. To your genes, your survival is secondary. That's why we age and die once we're beyond birthing and parenting age, because when you (statistically speaking) won't reproduce anymore or protect the results of such, your genes stop giving a fuck.

By that reasoning women should be dead by 40 years of age. Most men would welcome the opportunity to marry a younger woman to produce more offspring after their current aged wife dies. In today's society the value of women has decreased significantly so dying by 40 would be a net benefit to the long-term survival of the human species. Truthfully, beyond 30 years of age most women have little to offer a man.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

Adults have lived some of their life. Kids have missed out on things most believe everbody should be able to do before they die, like their first kiss.

Your argument is illogical. Whether you ever kiss another person is irrelevant. Children are a net burden on society as are the elderly. Nature factored these realities into the survival equation for humans long ago.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow! Sometimes you can be so... lucid! We rarely see this side of you. I guess you really were trolling us all this time.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Your argument is illogical. Whether you ever kiss another person is irrelevant.

I heard your entire post in my head in Seven of Nine's voice.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[umghhh]

With one womb and one sperm carrier you are not going to restart the civilization anyway so better choice would possibly be realize that shit is coming down and enjoy the time left by drinking up beverages, using drugs and having sex or just cuddle and comfort each other before the ultimate question is put up in front of us.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

16 kids, 1 infant and several slashdot readers

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Solandri]

Logically, if you tabulate the expected remaining years of life lost, rather than simply count the number of lives lost, then children and infants increase the degree of the tragedy. For this reason, 20 children dying because a preschool burned down is a greater tragedy than 20 elderly patients dying because a nursing home burned down.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Type44Q]

Kids have missed out on things most believe everbody should be able to do before they die, like their first kiss.

Apparently there are organizations that would like to do something about that...

:p

Re: Sixteen children and one infant

[AK Marc]

What is indecent about placing all humans on an equal scale? Since I'm not a bigot, I'm not decent. Only bigots can be decent people?

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

Willful ignorance is not a sign of intelligence.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[itzly]

What if a bunch of 35 year old parents were in the plane, while their kids stayed at home ? What's the formula for tragedy then ?

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

They did leave their mark on the world: they were included in today's news.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

For all intents and purposes the difference between the two sexes stops at the womb and gonads, everything else is equal.

So minor differences don't matter. Got it.

sure I can make another one but I cannot make that one again, a life is unique

So minor differences are super important. Oops.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah because if it's your children you would care, not that you have any.

If it was any of his friends or family he'd care, not just children.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[x0ra]

They aren't children yet when in the uterus.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[x0ra]

So what ? Should all adults become progressive libtards believing in unicorn and fairy tales ? How is that a proof of goodness (or badness) ?

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[thegarbz]

That's only because we have a rosy view on what should be the best experiences someone should have. Yes kids may have missed out on first kisses, but they have also missed out on a lot of other hateful things that happen in the world. Being a child was the best time of my life. Being an adult now with girlfriend, house, mortgage et al. I wish for nothing more than to re-live my childhood over and over again.

Being young and carefree is the ultimate experience in my view. The GP may come across as Mr Spock, but maybe he just values a different life experience to you.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

'Different' meaning he doesn't value it at all. He was being contrarian, not insightful.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is now yesterday's news. That's not an impression but a shadow.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[antdude]

I'll be a 40 years old virgin, and people still think I still look like a kid (not a baby goat). :P

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm 28 and have never been kissed. I'm around 5' 10'', 145 lbs, and have good hygiene. I don't talk enough. Please pamper me until someone kisses me.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps if you travelled...

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

Adults have lived some of their life. Kids have missed out on things most believe everbody should be able to do before they die, like their first kiss.

Everybody here actually understands this, I have no idea why you all picked now to suddenly act like you're Mr. Spock.

By your reasoning, it should be worse, emotionally, to kill an old person who has tried little than a child who has tried more things in life, but that's not how it works. What's going on is that you (and everyone else) can't help but have a feeling that a child's welfare is more important than an adult's welfare (as explained by the GP). You'd like your feelings to be logical, so you grab on to a reasonable-sounding justification and then at that point you can pretend that your feelings come from that justification rather than the other way around. The justification doesn't have to really make sense, it just has to mostly appear as though it does. The insidious thing is that we ALL rationalize things like that and it is very hard to notice oneself doing it and snap out of it - even when it's explicitly pointed out by someone else. To the point that you'll say things like "everybody here actually understands this" while unknowingly presenting a non-sense argument.

There's lots of other reasonable-sounding rationalizations: Children can't take care of themselves, so it is the obligation of adults to help them, so we care more when they get hurt, because that is a failure of that obligation - so our emotions all make sense, see? It's still non-sense since in that case you'd also care just as much when a mentally disabled adult got killed in a plane crash, but you don't. Or how about this: Children have more years to live, so it's worse if they get killed, because then more potential years are lost. You'd then have to care more about the death of an adult with a 20 year remaining life expectancy than a child with a 19 year life expectancy (say, due to some disease), but of course, again, you don't.

In each case, my counter-examples seem like they just completely miss the point, even if they are logically correct, don't they? That's because the point that is being missed is that children just inherently play into our emotions and they don't do that for any of the reasons given in these arguments, like inexperience, ineptitude or high life expectancy. The GP is right - it's programmed in. We don't feel that way due to some justification, we just do feel that way because we can't help it and then we rationalize that.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

We don't feel that way due to some justification, we just do feel that way because we can't help it and then we rationalize that.

Actually... It is being rationalized on both sides of the debate, not one. Logic is being used, but only for one set of values, leading to a mistaken impression that one is right, as opposed to just having an opinion. Nobody is on any higher ground than "I have buddies here that agree with me". The reason for that is that this article was never about choosing which lives to save. The poster I replied to, in order to pose as a 'smarter than the rest of us' person, attempted to pervert it into that. But since he based it on a misunderstanding of why it came up in the first place, replying to my post about the actual value of the individual lives is fruitless. This scenario doesn't lend itself to this discussion.

None of what you said has any relevance to why the number of children and infants was brought up by the news outlet. If you want to have a hypothetical debate about the value of children, then let's talk about a scenario involving life boats.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, dump her.

Lose your cash to your first and second wives. Stop seeing your kids due to friction and the sheer complexity of juggling. Eat nothing but microwaved ready meals until you finally die with a cirrhotic liver, alone.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

But that, again, is an argument from hypothesis and it assumes without evidence that somehow those "lost" life-years have any reality. They don't, that is the nature of future. It's hard to grasp emotionally, but unless to subscribe to some of the very fancy interpretations of physics, the future isn't real, yet, so any future something "lost" is not a loss, it's just a hypothetical thing whose coming-into-existence was uncertain, and now is certain in that it will not.

Maybe it's easier to understand when you think to the "piracy losses" that the music and movie industry post. They're the same thing - there is no money actually being taken from their accounts, the "loss" is entirely in expected revenue that doesn't appear. But nobody knows for sure if it would have appeared at all, it's all hypothetical.

That revenue may be lost due to piracy, or because the movie sucks. That life-years may be lost due to this airplane crash, or because the kid would've died the next day in a car accident. Most importantly, however, I consider it unethical to attribute value to a human life based on impersonal, statistical numbers such as life expectancy.

Re:Sixteen children and one infant

[Anonymous Coward]

That approach is perfectly fine. The part I don't understand is where you postulate your personal opinions as if they were objective truth and everyone else ought to feel the same way.

Please, feel whatever you want. Just don't tell me that something is wrong with me because I have a different opinion.

Re:Note to Self....

[Anonymous Coward]

Why write that note on the day of an unrelated airline crash?

Re:Note to Self....

[Panoptes]

Point of information - this wasn't Malaysia Airlines, it was AirAsia.

Coffin Corner?

[mentil]

The pilot tried to ascend over a cloud. My guess is that he hit the coffin corner, stalled, and crashed.

Re:Coffin Corner?

[Anonymous Coward]

its so impressive that you know airplane words

Re:Coffin Corner?

[Anonymous Coward]

My guess is that it's way too early for anyone, especially Slashdot armchair pilots, to guess anything. Go be a showoff somewhere else.

Re:Coffin Corner?

[Anonymous Coward]

mentil has a point, according to this report:
"A radar screenshot leaked from AirNav Indonesia shows the aircraft had turned left off the airway and was climbing through FL363, the speed over ground had decayed to 353 knots however."
http://www.aeroinside.com/item/5119/indonesia-asia-a320-over-java-sea-on-dec-28th-2014-aircraft-went-missing-believed-to-have-impacted-waters

slowing could be related to a stall

Re:Coffin Corner?

[Anonymous Coward]

You sound like a man who enjoys a good rhubarb pie.

Re:Coffin Corner?

[Anonymous Coward]

This was an Airbus 320. Unless there was a severe problem with the aircraft the Airbus would be in (Normal Law or Primary Law) for its control logic. In "Normal Law" the aircraft would not allow this. Period.

Re:Coffin Corner?

[Anonymous Coward]

mentil has a point, according to this report:
"A radar screenshot leaked from AirNav Indonesia shows the aircraft had turned left off the airway and was climbing through FL363, the speed over ground had decayed to 353 knots however."
http://www.aeroinside.com/item/5119/indonesia-asia-a320-over-java-sea-on-dec-28th-2014-aircraft-went-missing-believed-to-have-impacted-waters

slowing could be related to a stall

This is confusing two different data points. FL363 is Flight Level 363, indicating an altitude of 36,300 feet above sea level. Ground speed of 353 knots is the speed that the airplane was traveling over the earth, which is not entirely related to the airspeed, which is dependent on wind. Even with a sudden 100 knot tailwind, they would be at 253 knots, about 100 knots faster than stall. Coffin corner is specific to super high altitude airplanes, where stall speed and Mach overspeed are so close together that going too slow or too fast will destroy the airplane. This airliner was a couple miles below the altitudes that make that condition, and it didn't have the horsepower to climb that high on its own. Coffin corner, specifically, is not likely to be the cause of this crash in my opinion.

Some news reports indicate the airplane may have flown into a supercell thunderstorm. Those often contain hail, rain so heavy that the engines can't get air to burn, and updrafts / downdrafts that can practically throw an airliner into the earth. The pilots asked for 38,000 feet altitude, disappeared at 36,300, near a thunderstorm with tops at 50,000 feet. They would have been flying into the middle of the top of the thunderstorm, if they did actually penetrate it.

There was a MD-80 or DC-9 that flew through a dense part of a thunderstorm, that got so much hail that the front windows were broken when they landed. Obviously, a thunderstorm of 5 miles diameter is stronger and more powerful than a 150 foot long airplane. I'm hoping for a good outcome, but history doesn't have nice things to say when airplanes enter storms.

Re:Coffin Corner?

[Solandri]

Unlikely. It is extraordinarily difficult to crash a plane because you hit the coffin corner. The moment you stall, you lose altitude, and you're no longer in the coffin corner. A simple stall recovery, and you're back in normal flight. The A320 in particular is designed so the computer will automatically recover from stalls if the pilots simply release all controls. It takes severe disorientation or stupidity (e.g. one of the pilots on AF447 kept directing the plane to pitch up without telling the other pilot what he was doing, as the other pilot was trying to pitch it down to recover from the stall) for a plane to crash because of this.

Re:Coffin Corner?

[Dan East]

That site appears to have just copy / pasted the story from The Aviation Herald, and they didn't even bother to link to the images. Here's the original article with the radar images:
http://avherald.com/h?article=...

Does that radar indicate ground speed or airspeed? If ground speed then of course that will drop as the aircraft climbs, although the airspeed may stay the same.

Re:Coffin Corner?

[jbwolfe]

The moment you stall, you lose altitude, and you're no longer in the coffin corner.

The moment you stall, you are outside the flight envelope which includes that corner. You remain outside until you recover from stall. Losing altitude is not a stall recovery technique. Restoring laminar flow over the wing is. That may involve sacrificing altitude for airspeed, assuming you still have enough elevator authority to reduce AOA. Another method is to use excess thrust, assuming it is available at that altitude (the higher you are the, less available.)

A simple stall recovery, and you're back in normal flight.

Stall recovery in large swept-wing aircraft at cruise altitude is anything but simple. It requires a great deal of patience and energy management to avoid secondary stalls. Once recovered, you remain in alternate or direct law- no more normal law until on the ground and reset.

The A320 in particular is designed so the computer will automatically recover from stalls if the pilots simply release all controls.

Untrue. When you stall an A320, you revert to alternate law (hopefully with speed stability), as normal law will not let you stall. If you stalled, something went wrong. The flight control computers are saying essentially that "I cant fly the plane anymore- you the pilot must do it." It will not recover without pilot intervention.

...one of the pilots on AF447 kept directing the plane to pitch up without telling the other pilot what he was doing, as the other pilot was trying to pitch it down to recover from the stall

This did happen, and they were disoriented but not stupid, just poorly trained. The aircraft also gave them a "dual input" aural warning and averaged their inputs. The first sense to disappear when under stress is hearing. They were under stress and poor training in stall recovery left them unable to prevent secondary stalls. This was one of many other factors to this particular accident as well as all accidents in general.

Re:Coffin Corner?

[Anonymous Coward]

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

7 is a new 13

[Anonymous Coward]

It is all Putin's fault anyway

Re: Note to Self....

[Anonymous Coward]

Very similar location though. I wonder if this is where the black hole is that CNN proposed.

Re:Russian media reports flight downed by US missi

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd recommend waiting until there's some actual facts. Or at least somebody knows where the plane is. It certainly is possible and it wouldn't be the first time, but this is the same Russian media that's beholden to the guy that gave terrorists in Ukraine the munitions necessary to shoot down that passenger jet.

Re:Russian media reports flight downed by US missi

[ttucker]

Russian media is reporting the plane was downed by a US Navy missile: http://www.pravda.ru/news/poli...

If this is true, this is an unconscionable provocation.

Seems legit...

Because No One Ever Said

[Anonymous Coward]

Why won't someone think of the adults! It's a given. You know there were some. Most parents are not stupid enough to bring a child on a plane.

Re:Because No One Ever Said

[Zontar The Mindless]

Right. Since it's a well-known fact that children of most travelling parents are transported via shipping container to join Mom and Dad at their destination.

Re:Russian media reports flight downed by US missi

[Anonymous Coward]

There's no mention of the incident, US Navy, missiles, or anything related to AirAsia on that article.

Go marry your cousin or whatever it is that people in Texas do.

Re:Russian media reports flight downed by US missi

[Zontar The Mindless]

It's doing nothing of the sort. The linked story appears to be a Pravda op-ed piece quoting Foreign Minister (?) Alexei Pushkov to the effect that Russia isn't really isolated internationally despite the efforts and claims of President Obama to this effect. A native speaker could provide more detail, but that's the gist of it. As for the missing plane, I don't see a single mention of it anywhere on Pravda's main or Asian news pages.

Re:Russian media reports flight downed by US missi

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not 100% fluent in Russian, but this really is some domestic political piece critical of Obama (surprise!!), nothing to do with any missing aircraft.

I think you've been trolled... O_o

Lulz whut??

[Anonymous Coward]

You got down-modded here with the large left-wing element on this site?

Re:Lulz whut??

[Zontar The Mindless]

What does that have to do with the price of borshcht in Belgorod? The AC made an easily refuted false claim, end of story.

Re: Lulz whut??

[Anonymous Coward]

You say that the problem with the plane was the large left wing?

Re: Lulz whut??

[deniable]

The computer reported an imbalance.

Reddit live thread

[Zanadou]

Reddit live news thread: http://www.reddit.com/live/u5b...

Honestly, compared to most news sources these days, it's probably the best one to read.

Re:Reddit live thread

[Anonymous Coward]

Reddit is for kids with no life, wake up

Re:Reddit live thread

[Anonymous Coward]

uh, reposts from actual news sources? Reddit is acting like a new aggregator. The only "content" they put out is combining official statements (gathered from wire news) and file photos they scrap online.

Re:Note to Self....

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? This gets modded down? Have you looked at the flood of moronic comments here?

Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[Anonymous Coward]

Never Fly On Malaysia Airlines!

Your "Note to Self needs to change something

I am from Singapore, and I can tell you this one thing ...
 
The problem is not only "Malaysian Airlines" but any airplane that is being piloted by the Malays

In all the 3 air planes, 2 from Malaysian Airline and one from Air Asia, the pilots are Malays

I do not mean to be racist, but fact is ... and you can see it from the even the road traffic in Singapore and also in Indonesia and in Malaysia, the Malay drivers are among the most incompetent drivers available

If they can't drive properly, what makes you think that they can FLY an airplane ?

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[Anonymous Coward]

That actually deserves to be modded up. That's a high level of correlation. It's possible there are training issues.

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[Anonymous Coward]

Having taught a bunch of Singaporean airline pilots, I can assure you that you guys suck just as much...

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't be stupid. One of those three planes was shot down by a missile. That clearly had nothing to do with the race of the pilot.

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[Anonymous Coward]

Air Asia and Malaysia Airlines are competitors in the lowest cost airline for the region

There has got be to be a time when cutting costs takes a lower priority than human lives

Somebody made the decision not to pay for GPS tracking on Malaysian Airlines, was a similar decision made on the Air Asia flights?

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[K. S. Kyosuke]

It has everything to do with the race of the pilot: the pilot didn't race away from the missile quickly enough!

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[Anonymous Coward]

The plane that got shot down was off course. The pilot tried to take a shortcut over an area where he wasn't authorised to be flying.

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[Anonymous Coward]

That is 100% untrue.

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[AK Marc]

The plane was flying the filed pattern and was where it was authorized to be. The airline should have re-routed it, but that's not entirely the pilot's call. Like the weather, they rely on the word of others for the conditions, then do what they can with that information. They were told the flight path was safe, and it was the one the owners of the plane he was flying told him to take. How is that his fault for being off course?

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to correct you slightly even though I don't blame the pilots at all: The pilot does decide the route on his own. However, his options are decided by the airline. Normally airlines have no reason to restrict those options other than what authorities already restrict by closing airspace (for e.g. military training reasons). Russia blamed Ukraine for - among other things - not closing that airspace. The route is thus chosen based on weather to exploit favrouable winds and avoid unfavourable winds and bad weather so that flight time and fuel use is minimized. Plenty of other airlines flew precisely the same route (so close that some even should've seen the missile, if they had happened to look). MH17 was precisely where it had informed ATC that it would be and not off course. However, the (drunken?) rebels didn't exactly consult with Ukrainian ATC regarding civil aviation.

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[angel'o'sphere]

It is always the pilots responsibility.
Regardless what the owner or someone else says.

Define "off course". Off from the filed plan? As far as I understood the pilot wanted to change course because of weather conditions. Or do you mean he was "off" from the course he changed to? If he really was "off" it is ofc his fault as well.

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[amorsen]

He was authorized to be flying there. Planes fly over conflict zones all the time, because non-idiots know the difference between civilian airliners and military planes, and no-one gives SAMs worth millions of dollars to imbeciles, and the cheap ones cannot fly 10km.

As it turns out, that was no-one except Vladimir Putin, so now the game has changed.

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[budgenator]

Yes the game has changed, now the House of Saud is kicking Russia's economic ass up around their ears; and if Da`eth's funding is collateral damage so much the better.

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh? So the details from the black box have been released and there's now actual evidence instead of just accusations that Russia did it?

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[jbwolfe]

The airline should have re-routed it, but that's not entirely the pilot's call.

The route and safety of flight are shared responsibilities between the dispatcher and pilot. The final authority rests with the Captain per regulation. Were the captain to feel deviation or complete re-route was necessary, he had full authority and responsibility to do so. Where ATC is not accommodating, he can exercise emergency authority to preserve safety of flight.

...it was the one the owners of the plane he was flying told him to take.

Point of information: The "owners" explicitly do not have that authority.

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[ihtoit]

it's a fucking war zone, daily flash should have (would have) alerted EVERY civilian airline to that fact, general sensibility is to AVOID civilian overflights of war zones. Missiles are NOT picky. They go where they're told, and generally SAM systems are not equipped with transponder readers.

MH17 would NOT have happened had the person responsible for pointing the nose of the aircraft not done so in such a way in an attempt to shave five minutes off the flight and/or save a gallon or so of kerosene.

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[umghhh]

The pilot of MH-17 could have flown slightly to the right, over the black sea, as other intelligent pilots at this and earlier days did and at least MH-17 would not have been shot down. It maybe that this was incompetence or just bad risk taking to save on fuel - still risk assessment is a vital part of any commercial pilot education I shall think.

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[Anonymous Coward]

it's a fucking war zone, daily flash should have (would have) alerted EVERY civilian airline to that fact, general sensibility is to AVOID civilian overflights of war zones. Missiles are NOT picky. They go where they're told, and generally SAM systems are not equipped with transponder readers.

MH17 would NOT have happened had the person responsible for pointing the nose of the aircraft not done so in such a way in an attempt to shave five minutes off the flight and/or save a gallon or so of kerosene.

Well, ironically, many flights that go around Eastern Ukraine still go over Syria because that airspace isn't closed. You seem fairly confused about aviation terminology as well as the varying capabilities of SAMs (if only shoulder launched ones are present in an area, they pose no harm to civilian flights at cruise altitudes).

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[ihtoit]

uh... bollocks. The missile that brought down MH17 was not a shoulder fired job, it was a serviced phased-array RADAR guided system with a hundred seventy pound warhead housed in a twenty foot tube. The track left the ground at a range of more than twenty miles, after the system had been actively tracking the target from over 100 miles range (over the horizon). Also, war zones are generally out of bounds for civilian traffic, whether ground based or air, or even water based. You take your own life into your hands if you choose to ignore the warnings, no nation will protect you if you happen to survive being shot out of the sky in a large aircraft, over a war zone.

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[umghhh]

This is not entirely true - there have been airlines that took precautions and flew over Black Sea instead. Is it not he captain of the plane that has the ultimate power to go for a safer route? We would not have known that MH-17 were at risk then, unless of course somebody were to shoot something out of the skies anyway. This makes for an interesting decision tree. I fly over Black Sea and spend a bit more on fuel and clearly risk my job or I fly over an area where from time to time other planes were shot down and hope that 10+km is enough not to be in a missile range. If he had saved his life, while flying over Black Sea, we possibly would have never known, that flying over Ukraine was such a high risk or maybe we would if other plane were shot down. If another plane were to be shot down, it could have saved his job then. If OTOH his job was not at risk due to slightly higher costs of fuel used to fly over Black Sea then he took moronic decision (together with the guy who pushed the button - if this were the BUK missile operator he probably faced bad choices as well, as there were enemy military aircraft in vicinity).

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[ColdWetDog]

Not really, it's US shale oil that is kicking the Russian's economic butt. Wasn't planned, won't last all that long, but what the hell, take it.

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[ihtoit]

check your sources: US airlines (and most if not all European ones) studiously AVOID Syria AND Ukraine AND Iraq PRECISELY BECAUSE THEY ARE DESIGNATED WAR ZONES. Malaysia, AirAsia and other Far Eastern airlines which generally seem to have saving as much fuel as possible as the pimary profit motive, IGNORE war zones and yes, they do fly over them regularly.

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[AK Marc]

Is it not he captain of the plane that has the ultimate power to go for a safer route?

He is Captain, but not God. He knows what he's told. No more. He was told "this is safe" so acted on that. It you are a pilot and presume your airline is lying to you every day, you should find another job or another airline.

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[slacktide]

You are wrong. Generally SAM missle systems (i.e. not MANPDS) generally ARE equipped with transponder/IFF code selection. In the Russian case the BUK missile is capable of being operated seperately from it's command and control ground radar, in which case it looses IFF protection.

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[amorsen]

You just said bollocks and repeated my point: it was not a shoulder fired missile that any guerilla soldier can get, it was a SAM system previously only available to nation states.

Conflict zones are not out of bound of civilian traffic in general; have a look at a map and see how that would make a lot of routes impossible.

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[Dunbal]

I don't think there's a malaysian "race" so you're pretty clear of racism while still being insensitive :P

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[Anonymous Coward]

Ruble at 54/USD. To all the speculators who jumped in at 80/USD I say thanks for the money. Don't mess with the bear.

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[swilly]

This isn't 100% true. I recently flew on a United flight from Atlanta to Dubai, and the nifty map showing the flight path displayed us flying right through the middle of Iraq. Perhaps it used to be true that we wouldn't fly over Iraq, but we do now. I'm sure that there are still altitude restrictions, but I'm just guessing.

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[0111 1110]

I don't think there's a malaysian "race"

Well if Malays are not a race perhaps you should tell them that. They seem to believe that they are and as such give themselves special treatment under the law when compared to the Chinese and Indians who were also born here.

Re:Don't take airplanes piloted by the Malays

[Anonymous Coward]

There are only four basic ethnic backgrounds in humanity - the caucasians, the african blacks, the east asian and the australian aborigine. This according to DNA. Everyone else is a mix of some of the above gene pools.

Track record

[Anonymous Coward]

Does not bode well. Not well at all.

Pirates

[Anonymous Coward]

Pirates did it.

so?

[Anonymous Coward]

what does this story have to do with anything slashdot related? go read drudge report and leave us alone

North Kora

[Anonymous Coward]

I would rule out North Kora and Kim-Jung Mentally-Ill

Leaked List

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone leaked a generated Navitaire report which seems to have the list of passengers. I can only partially verify it though. http://radiopetti.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/B564L3dCYAAimjN.jpg

Re:Leaked List

[Anonymous Coward]

http://radiopetti.com/2014/12/...

Re:Escort

[deniable]

I can only think of two. What was the third lost in Asia?

Re:Escort

[Anonymous Coward]

> I wonder how viable it would be to just quietly escort flights in that region with stealth aircraft for a while to determine what's actually happening.

With thousands of flights a day, there aren't enough military jets and support crews to do that.

Re:Escort

[Jbcarpen]

From TFA

This comes on the heels of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 which is still missing, and Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, which was shot down.

This is the third one. The first two were 370 and 17.

Re:Escort

[AK Marc]

When you don't mention the two you are thinking of, how can we name the 3rd? MH 370, MH17, QZ8501. MH17 wasn't lost in Asia, but the OP didn't specify Asia, you did. MH17 was destined for Malaysia, the same airport MH370 took off from. And Singapore borders Malaysia. They are clustered, even if they didn't all go down in the same place.

Re:Escort

[Anonymous Coward]

I can only think of two. What was the third lost in Asia?

You know that he just incorrectly counted MH17 to be lost in Asia.

Re:Escort

[ChunderDownunder]

His point was that MH17 was shot down in Ukrainian airspace, half a world away from Malaysia or Indonesia.

Re:Note to Self....

[mjwx]

Point of information - this wasn't Malaysia Airlines, it was AirAsia.

More precisely it was Indonesian AirAsia, which is a separate company to AirAsia BHD as Indonesia prohibits majority foreign ownership on airlines. Indonesian AirAsia has its own staff, management and maintenance.

It should also be noted that AirAsia BHD practically owns Indonesia AirAsia as they completely funded the holding company that owns the other 51% of the stock.

Re:Escort

[ledow]

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/...

Commercial aircraft go down anything up to 20 times a year, even in modern times. Back when you were a kid, likely 30 times a year or more.

Already we have this lot:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...

That's one every two weeks. One of the ones you hint at was, what, July and over an entirely different continent anyway.

Learn some statistics. You soon find that people have selection-bias on what they see in the news, what they perceive as a "close fact" (being a plane heading TO Malaysia crashing in another continent, instead of one heading from Malaysia that crashes near Malaysia... very different things), and what they want to lump together to form some kind of extraordinary circumstance.

Some background information FYI

[Anonymous Coward]

Air Asia and Malaysia Airlines are competitors in the lowest cost airline for the region

Not true!

Malaysian Airline is never a budget airline. It does not have to, because it has all the financial backing from the Malaysian government

Both the Malaysian Airline and the Singaporean Airline were from the same company - Malaysian - Singapore Airline (MSA) established back in 1966. In year 1972 they split

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...â"Singapore_Airlines

Since 1972, Singaporean Airlines have been growing by leaps and bounds, upgrading its service and focus on servicing the flying customers, and for the past 42 years the Singaporean Airline has been making money, every single year

On the other hand, for the past 42 years since the split, the Malaysian Airline has been losing money, 38 years out of the 42 years. In the 42 years since the split, the Malaysian government (or in actual fact, the citizens of Malaysia) have been subsidizing the Malaysian Airline to the tune of TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS but yet, the quality of its service, the condition of its airplane, the food it serves, the service it gives to the flying customers, have been mediocre at best

There has got be to be a time when cutting costs takes a lower priority than human lives

Somebody made the decision not to pay for GPS tracking on Malaysian Airlines, was a similar decision made on the Air Asia flights?

The fact that someone made the decision to not pay for GPS tracking points to the fact that the Malaysian Airline has been plagued by RAMPANT CORRUPTION

Although the Malaysian Airline have been heavily subsidized by the Malaysian government, people working inside still try everything they can to cut corners, so that they can get extra income for themselves

Corruption is nothing new in Malaysia, by the way. What happens in the Malaysian Airline reflects what happens in Malaysia. Everywhere in Malaysia, everything in Malaysia, is connected to corruption

As for AirAsia I do not know if the plane has GPS tracking or not

The history of AirAsia is that that boss of AirAsia used to work for Virgin Airline, and he essentially copied the concept from the "Southwest Airline" of the United States, and applied to Malaysia and South East Asia

Hope the info here can be of some help

Re:Some background information FYI

[Anonymous Coward]

Kind of unrelated but...

My company has an offices in Hong Kong, Beijing, and Shanghai. We have a global presence and all IT functions are handled at our headquarters. In the past 6 years we've had 3 different IT supervisors in our Asia region and everyone of them seems to be doing shady deals with circuits, purchasing of equipment, and maintenance contracts. They switch them often, cancel existing contracts that the previous supervisor had made, and buy equipment and services that we do not need or want. Some examples, ordered new internet service when our existing contract was adequate and average utilization was less than 50%, he swapped out the AC units in two data centers when the existing units were still under contract and cooling fine, never once informing the infrastructure teams to ask about load, plans, requirements, or the need, he ordered some new laptops but never consulted the desktop team to see if they would work with our existing images, etc.. All of this and let us know AFTER the fact.

Re:Escort

[Anonymous Coward]

You seem really bent on finding a connection when there isn't one. MH370 is a big fucking mystery. The reason why MH17 came down was clear from the very beginning even though some (uh, Russia...) still dispute who fired the missile. QZ8501 was a different airline and one that is notorious for its bad safety (until recently banned from flying in the EU) and disappeared during bad weather. So bad that the last message evidently was that they were going to deviate from the planned route. So do you really think there's a strange coincidence? I certainly don't.

"Now Everyone Can Fly"

[hcs_$reboot]

... is AirAsia motto. For about 43 seconds it seems...

Re:"Now Everyone Can Fly"

[Anonymous Coward]

"We'll get you there cheaper and faster, even if it kills us."

Re: Note to Self....

[Anonymous Coward]

This is Slashdot. Do you think he read the article? Half the time we're lucky if they even read the title.

Re: Note to Self....

[bejiitas_wrath]

Just a question, if there was a black hole in the air at 25000 feet, that just materialised there, would the gravity of the Earth cause it to fall to the ground and into the planets core? Say if it was the size of a marble? Just a hypothetical.

Re:"half white" ?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, you're offended because there's a middle-to-upper class half-white male adult in the White House?

The only "white stuffs" of that male adult in the White House is his teeth and the sclera (the white part) of his eyes

Right.... So what about his mother? Or are you trying to slip in the No True Scotsman logical fallacy?

Three words: Fly by wire

[cjonslashdot]

When lightning hits.... That part of the world is known for really massive lightning - lightning with far more power than average lightning.

Re:Cha và iu tr viêm ng tit niu hiu qu

[Anonymous Coward]

'Bnh inflammatory vi ng tit loving but must SYMPTOM or gp nh tiu but, tiu rt, tiu nhiu ln ... but must be non-bnh not be him.' (Google translate)

I think slashdot ate your non-latin characters.

Re:Note to Self....

[Anonymous Coward]

weakhearted people with no self-esteem who think they can find self-worth by being "helpful", but their "help" is so basic it consists of things people should do for themselves

The is no argument against decency more fucking stupid than, "If I help you, you'll never learn!"

If you want someone to learn something teach them. If you won't teach them, you're just finding an excuse to be a lazy douchebag. If you can't teach them, you failed. And, as a failure, you should shut the fuck up.

Have a nice day.

Now Everyone Can Die

[Anonymous Coward]

Putin did it. Those Russian bastards.

Re: Note to Self....

[angel'o'sphere]

No, why would it?
I mean think about it: what if a stone materializes 'just like that' at 25000 feet? It certainly would not fall down to earth by gravity. After all the earth does not know the stone is there and the stone likely just vanishes milli second later in a flash. I guess a hypothetical black hole would simply vanish in a bigger flash ... but obviously darker.

Re: Note to Self....

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you both retarded? Or did I miss a joke somewhere?

Re:Escort

[Anonymous Coward]

Small portion of the globe? Ukraine and the ocean East of Australia...

Re: Note to Self....

[Anonymous Coward]

Joke's on you, retard

Re:Escort

[deniable]

North or west of Australia but still closer than Ukraine.

Re:Escort

[Anonanonaon]

What would be interesting is if it isn't found.

We've never yet had two big planes with 100+ passengers go un-recovered in a given year.

Also.., another Air Asia passenger jet made an emergency landing a few hours later.

Plenty for the connecting mind to chew on.

Whatever the case, hopefully there will be survivors found, (though statistically, that's not a good bet).

Re:Escort

[deniable]

In addition, the escort might (given ROE / oversight) be able to deal with external threats. For on-board problems all they could do is watch.

how in the hell

[Anonymous Coward]

Is this considered on the heels of...

Re: Note to Self....

[unixisc]

Well, the first paragraph from iONiUM had the completely irrelevant links to Malaysian Airlines flights 370 and 17, which was probably what put him on the wrong scent. CRETIN editors of /.

MOD PARENT UP!

[Futurepower(R)]

Quoting from the India Times:

"08:45 PM
In a separate incident later Sunday, an AirAsia flight carrying more than 150 passengers experiences a technical problem about 10 minutes after taking off from Penang, Malaysia, and has to return to the airport, AirAsia says. The flight takes off again for the short flight to Langkawi island and safely reaches its destination."

More sanctions against Russia needed!

[Anonymous Coward]

It is clearly Putin and his barbaric regime. I am really surprised NATO has not issued a report confirmed by a photo of a tank (it would be good if NATO changed the photos from time to time).

Re:Russian media reports flight downed by US missi

[umghhh]

Is this then Putin's fault or not?
Confusing this all is.

Better computer tracking

[Futurepower(R)]

That's easy. There should be better computer tracking. There should never be a "search". Some of us will need to write the code and design the electronics for that.

Re:Better computer tracking

[currently_awake]

You would need a global sat network to monitor (in real time) the pings from the aircraft transmitter/locator so you would know exactly where to find the wreck. And a power sensor and battery backup so you'd know if the aircraft power went down. And a decompression sensor. And mandatory for all civilian aircraft.

Re:Better computer tracking

[tlhIngan]

You would need a global sat network to monitor (in real time) the pings from the aircraft transmitter/locator so you would know exactly where to find the wreck. And a power sensor and battery backup so you'd know if the aircraft power went down. And a decompression sensor. And mandatory for all civilian aircraft.

And yet, GA aircraft have that functionality. It's contained within a box that costs around $200 (plus around $80 annually).

Inside the box is a GPS receiver and a GlobalSat or Iridium satellite modem.

Check out Spot - just one of the few global satellite tracking devices out there.

Of course, not sufficient for navigational purposes (you still require an ELT), but many pilots carry a PLB (using SARSAT 406MHz monitoring network) or a SPOT device.

PLBs are common these days too, and effectively "free" since you buy it once (maybe $400 or so) and they communicate with SARSAT when activated. Of course, they don't do tracking and have to be manually activated, while SPOT lets you send a "ping" every 10 minutes or so or more frequently if you push the emergency button.

So yes, the technology already exists for tracking, and is fairly cheap for consumer purposes. The global network exists - be it GlobalStar or Iridium, and GPS. And no, it doesn't require ship power for it - a SPOT only uses 4 AA batteries for 10-20 hours.

And I believe you can even mark up your flight plan to indicate you're carrying such a device so SAR can use it to narrow down your location ahead of time (or even to see if you forgot to close your flight plan if you reported landing).

Perhaps airlines could equip their pilots with such things - they're battery powered, and can be tossed on the glareshield and activated.

Air disasters always have technical angle

[SuperKendall]

Why is this on Slashdot?

I think a story like this belongs, because it can bring together knowledgeable people who can speculate on possible technical issues that may have been the cause of a problem...

Re:Air disasters always have technical angle

[ultranova]

I think a story like this belongs, because it can bring together knowledgeable people who can speculate on possible technical issues that may have been the cause of a problem...

Not to mention speculate about the worthlessness of those lost.

The cause of the crash was almost certainly being hit by a thunderstorm, rather than a technical issue, seeing how the plane was last heard of when it asked for permission to dodge.

Re: Note to Self....

[currently_awake]

Basic physics: The attractive force of the earth on the black hole would move the black hole towards the earth, while the attractive force of the black hole on the earth pulls the earth into the black hole, so they both move. How much they move is dependant on relative mass: the heavier one moves the least, so a super-massive black hole would just sit there while the earth was pulled in.

Reliance on automation.

[asasdlfgnjl]

Take away part of the automation process, and the pilots will have a hard time trying to figure out what should be done. AFR447 repeat.

I'm sure that'll help.

[Anonymous Coward]

Djoko Murjatmodjo, Indonesia's acting director general of transportation:

"We hope we can find the location of the plane as soon as possible, and we hope that God will give us guidance to find it," Murjatmodjo said.

That's all you've got? Reliance on an imaginary friend?

Re:Escort

[AK Marc]

I didn't assert any connection. I'm pointing out the 3 "lost" airplanes linked to SE Asia. Any relation you see is in your own mind.

./ in a nose dive

[Anonymous Coward]

There was a time when I believed ./ harbored slightly more advanced life forms than mindless slime creatures inhabiting twitter and YouTube comments.

Yes there has always been a select few churning out outrageous comments just for their shock value yet this was generally offset by people having slightly interesting things to say... perhaps based even on professional experience and insight.

Here we have one or two people talking about the dangers of flying on the ceiling while the rest masturbate about relative value of humans based on age while rest are busy shoving caviar into the pie-holes of trolls.

In other news...

[x0ra]

162 people disappeared, and it didn't change the face of the Earth.

Re:In other news...

[Anonymous Coward]

Tell that to the relatives and friends of those 162... learn to sympathize. It can happen to anyone.

Re:In other news...

[x0ra]

Still, the face of the earth won't change. I can mourn relatives, but the end result won't change. Even if mankind disappeared, the fate of the earth would not be affected.

Re: Note to Self....

[Dunbal]

Actually the gravity of the black hole would cause the earth to fall "up" into the black hole. Also the difference in gravity from one random distance to another from the black hole would tear the earth apart. Don't mess with black holes. If they exist, that is...

Re: Note to Self....

[Anonymous Coward]

Rule#1 of physics: Black holes the size of marbles don't materialize 250 kilofeet above the surface. OK, this may not be rule number one, but obviously you don't know rule number one so this rule is for you.
There are no stupid questions,as of yesterday.

Maybe I should upgrade

[Anonymous Coward]

to a 2-ply tinfoil hat :/

Anytime a plane " crashes " or goes missing, the very first thing I would do would be to pull a passenger manifest and see if anyone on board might have skills or knowledge that certain nations would like to get their hands on.

Re:Maybe I should upgrade

[dl_sledding]

Not a totally crazy idea... I think the single-ply hat is just fine.

Don't let people run things remotely

[RogueWarrior65]

This is why the people on location know better about how to run things than do people elsewhere. Hear that, Washington, DC? Here that, U.N.?

Use GPS, radio the info.

[Futurepower(R)]

There is already a "global sat network": GPS satellites. All that is necessary is that each aircraft radio its position and sensor indications every minute or less.

Re:Use GPS, radio the info.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it's true that GPS satellites allow you to pinpoint your place on the planet's surface... but knowing where you are is only half the battle. You also have to be able to tell someone else. Land-based radio towers don't exactly pick up your signal when 70% of the earth is covered in water,

"On the heels of..." Give me a break

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing like sensationalizing old news... It still sucks, but just report the facts and leave the editorializing at the door.

Re:Escort

[jrumney]

I wonder how viable it would be to just quietly escort flights in that region with stealth aircraft for a while to determine what's actually happening.

It doesn't take much wondering to figure out how viable that idea is.

Re: Note to Self....

[Anonymous Coward]

Java Sea, South China Sea, Southern Indian Ocean, everything is close when its on the other side of the world.

Re: Note to Self....

[Anonymous Coward]

It's probably not related to the Sony hack, but it can't be ruled out at this time.

Not in this era

[thedonofdons]

There should be better ways to track such planes, its unfortunate that such incidents still happen even with so much technological developments! Looks like we are still in the 50's on these aspects which are most critical.
http://popularbloggingtopics.c...

Re: Note to Self....

[Anonymous Coward]

49% owned by AirAsia Malaysia.

Re: Note to Self....

[MichaelMacDonald]

And the other 49% is owned by AirAsia Malaysia...

Re: Note to Self....

[dl_sledding]

In this case, 25 kilofeet. If the airliner was at 250 kilofeet, they had other problems than black holes to deal with.
Just sayin'. :)

Re:Escort

[dl_sledding]

Curious if the two lost in the region were both under the control of Indonesian Air Traffic Control. 8501 was, according to the article. Do they have a fscked up controller working the scopes?

Re:Escort

[AK Marc]

MH 370 wasn't, but may have passed through Indonesian space after the transponder was off.

AIRASIA QZ8501

[Anonymous Coward]

my condolences to the families involved with the tragedy. this season of plane troubles have been haunting many people all around. the pilots should be more disciplined, have enough rest, sleep early. important that the leader of any airline show a good example and focus on the airline 100 percent and safety features 1000 percent. Such airline leader must not practice conflicting lifestyles which will only confuse the crew including the pilots. Such leader when they have other businesses which may require them to celebrate sporting or other victories with drinking CHEERS sessions, will create conflicting signals to the pilots and stewardesses. that is if its ok for my boss to party late, it must also be ok for the crew to follow that example, Pilots cannot fly without their proper sleep and full capabilities, especially if they were up late, and then expect to get ready and work so much earlier, let alone if they are required to fly into a storm knowingly coming. Strange also they brought the flight earlier, isn’t it normal for the flight to be delayed until the storm is over then fly, rather than fly earlier knowing full well the storm is going to hit.

Re: Note to Self....

[Anonymous Coward]

Things have been happening since the beginning of time that have been unexplainable....or are they just bs that keeps us entertained or completely in the dark...or just plain gullible...I'm just saying...keep that s#&t 1000...say what it really is or don't say anything...

Re: Note to Self....

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually...all of the planets are all getting closer to the sun..of course mars was just like earth it was in our position....and the closer mars got to the sun it was so hot...they jumped ship so to speak...it is common sence. Really..earth was frozen the people were harry cuz we adapted to our surroundings...we got closer to the sun the eafth thawed out we stood up the hair wasn't needed so much.....common sence....really people..