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Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug Or a Feature?

sarahnaomi writes: SimCity players have discussed a variety of creative strategies for their virtual homelessness problem. They've suggested waiting for natural disasters like tornadoes to blow the vagrants away, bulldozing parks where they congregate, or creating such a woefully insufficient city infrastructure that the homeless would leave on their own.

You can read all of these proposed final solutions in Matteo Bittanti's How to Get Rid of Homelessness, "a 600-page epic split in two volumes documenting the so-called 'homeless scandal' that affected 2013's SimCity." Bittanti collected, selected, and transcribed thousands of these messages exchanged by players on publisher Electronic Arts' official forums, Reddit, and the largest online SimCity community Simtropolis, who experienced and then tried to "eradicate" the phenomenon of homelessness that "plagued" SimCity."

393 comments

  1. TSDR, too stupid, yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    This is noise.

    1. Re:TSDR, too stupid, yes. by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 2, Informative

      Besides, south park already addressed the final solution to the homeless question:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Basically you just entice them to move to another city.

    2. Re: TSDR, too stupid, yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someday you will realize that you used a cartoon as a source of authority in a discussion.

    3. Re:TSDR, too stupid, yes. by reve_etrange · · Score: 2

      Basically you just entice them to move to another city.

      This technique is a significant contributor to the Bay Area's homelessness problem.

      --
      .: Semper Absurda :.
    4. Re: TSDR, too stupid, yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Canada did it first

    5. Re: TSDR, too stupid, yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's obviously joking you complete gimp.

    6. Re: TSDR, too stupid, yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Blame Canada!

    7. Re: TSDR, too stupid, yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes its well known the Canadian homeless migrate annually from east to west. Attracted by prospects of warmer weather, free food, and camping areas close to city centers. The Canadian homeless wander aimlessly throughout the lower mainland in search of recyclables and handouts. Never venturing far from their camps on the outskirts of the cities, they push their carts in search of anything shiny. Efforts to displace the homeless have been all for nought and many who come seeking refuge from cold winter weather, simply end up staying all year round.
      A quick tour through Vancouvers streets will show you just how prevelent the homeless are. Just look at those shiny clean streets! Not a can in sight!

    8. Re:TSDR, too stupid, yes. by Stubbyfingers · · Score: 1

      I used to live in a city, Roanoke, VA, where THAT was the EXACT solution--Only, it wasn't "Entice"...it was put them on an old school bus and drive them to a city 40 miles away--Lynchburg, VA. Lynchburg would then round up a bus load of their own and send them to Roanoke.

      It really didn't SOLVE anything--it just kept the homeless population well churned.

    9. Re:TSDR, too stupid, yes. by reve_etrange · · Score: 1

      Yeah, entice is the wrong word, it's definitely "put."

      There are also a lot of cities that buy Greyhound tickets to San Francisco, specifically, which is what I meant to refer to.

      --
      .: Semper Absurda :.
  2. SimCity 2000 available for free by mcrbids · · Score: 5, Informative

    I found this one on a trip down memory lane. Runs in a DOSBox and works great on my Win7 laptop! Yes, it's ENTIRELY LEGAL. you can get the download here.

    --
    I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    1. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's also available on GOG, albeit not free, but with no need to have Origin.

    2. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      ... Yes, it's ENTIRELY LEGAL.

      Is this abandoned software? The World's finest retro gaming resource thinks so. Plus, one can download it without creating a 'you are the product' account.

    3. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by jonwil · · Score: 2

      How is Origin malware? What does it do that makes it malware?
      It does have DRM but (depending on the game) its not exactly rocket science to either remove the DRM or find an existing no-DRM crack for your purchased game.

    4. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      DRM is malware. Software wants to be free.

      You FreeTard Terrorist.

    5. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 2

      Well, how can it be malware in a DOSbox?

      --
      Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    6. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

      Is it as enjoyable as the newer versions?

      --
      Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    7. Re: SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      The first versions of EA Downloader, which later became Origin, were essentially indistinguishable from malware, so the confusion is understandable.

    8. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by kelemvor4 · · Score: 4, Informative

      How is Origin malware? What does it do that makes it malware? It does have DRM but (depending on the game) its not exactly rocket science to either remove the DRM or find an existing no-DRM crack for your purchased game.

      Origin gathers your personal information, computer information, application usage, software inventory, software usage, and peripheral hardware usage. It reports this data back to EA/Origin. You can Google about it or spend a few minutes and read your origin EULA.

    9. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Last time I checked, Steam does most if not all of that too, but I suppose at least with Steam it's either opt-in or the user is told in an obvious way rather than braving the bengal tiger in the council office's basement.

    10. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by greg1104 · · Score: 1

      Well, how can it be malware in a DOSbox?

      With network sims. Err, shims.

    11. Re: SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Steam literally asks you when they want to take a hardware or software profile.

    12. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by youngone · · Score: 1

      In my view Sim City 2000 was the best version of the game ever, but I haven't actually played all of them, so maybe there is a better one somewhere.

    13. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you think Steam doesn't do that? Origin is basically a Steam wannabe. My only real problems with it are that it pops up an advertising page every time you run it and it makes me login again after every update while Steam remembers my credentials.

    14. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Software should be free!

      Unless I'm producing it. Then you should pay for my time.

    15. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by cas2000 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Origin may be basically a steam-wannabe, but it's without realising that the reason steam doesn't piss people off very much is that they're not arseholes about what they do - the DRM is minimal and mostly unobtrusive, and they ASK people if they want to participate in their surveys rather than just abuse the fact that their software is installed and simply steal the information.

    16. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Geek_Cop · · Score: 1

      I have played them all and I think SimCity 3000 is my favorite. The new one is a bit too ridiculously complex and 2000 is a bit too simple...and the sims nagged the hell out of you. With the new one I'm constantly having to deal with shit. I don't mean a bunch of stuff shit, I mean shit, sewage. Constant problem. I don't like dealing with poo in real life, and definitely don't want poo in my games. I guess it's realistic enough.

    17. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by ultranova · · Score: 0

      simply steal the information

      Origin doesn't "steal" information - you don't lose it. It spies on you, which is a completely different thing. Although I suppose you could say it steals your privacy.

      Oh well, any cracker groups out there care to reverse engineer the protocol and make a privacy proxy for Origin?

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    18. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Origin may be basically a steam-wannabe, but it's without realising that the reason steam doesn't piss people off very much is that they're not arseholes about what they do

      I don't know. I only use origin in my 32-bit gaming chroot under Wine (Linux Windows API library). It can only see its origin only prefix. Not sure how much it can spy, but it seems to work for me. Now, all the games I got there were either from humble bundle or their free offerings, so I'm not really invested in that software (in case it stops working one day).

    19. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Drinking+Bleach · · Score: 1

      It cannot possibly be abandoned in any sense of the word if it is still actively supported and sold.

    20. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well you are wrong. Words have specific meanings, and they don't change based on what you think they mean.

    21. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Origin doesn't "steal" information - you don't lose it.

      Oh come on, EA hasn't thought like that for a long time. After all, if you download EA's game from TPB, they will say that you stole a game.

    22. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's abandoned in the sense that the Maxis that created it no longer exists. Fuck, the whole industry that created SC2000 no longer exists in any recognisable form. It is literally impossible to support the guys who made it. And EA can blow goats.

    23. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      it wastes your time.
      and it's named after a company that published good games.

      it's extra shit you need to install to play.. same bin as uplay and all the other shit.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    24. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by MrBigInThePants · · Score: 0

      Only if it is an advanced AI able to comprehend the meaning behind the concepts: Want, free and "to be"

      Otherwise you are just being the IT equivalent of a stoned, dirty hippy.

    25. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by GNious · · Score: 4, Informative

      I just installed the Origin client - it specifically asked for permissions to collect statistics during the install process.

    26. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      +1 Insightful

      It's so easy to say that software should be free when you're not doing the hard work of producing it.

    27. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by advocate_one · · Score: 1

      it isn't going to get much information with me running it in DOSBox on Linux...

      --
      Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
    28. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by jones_supa · · Score: 2

      What about SimCity 4?

    29. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is Origin malware? What does it do that makes it malware?

      It prevents you (Intentionally or unintentionally) to play the games you bought.

    30. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by jarkus4 · · Score: 2

      In settings, advanced tab you will find section named Origin Experience Reporting when you can uncheck "Share hardware specification" and "Share system interaction data" to get rid of most of this (or at least the part that is objectionable to most people).

    31. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by jarkus4 · · Score: 2

      My only real problems with it are that it pops up an advertising page every time you run it.

      You can disable it in advanced settings ("Hide Featured Today..."). The other problem is annoying me too.

    32. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, specifically you didn't steal the game, but you stole the ability for them to make money from that copy.

    33. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Cenan · · Score: 4, Funny

      Facts? Here? How DARE you?

      --
      ... whatever ...
    34. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd say it's obstrusive: try to start a Steam game with the steam://name shortcut while offline, with Steam not launched yet. It takes about 10 seconds before it asks if you wish to play offline, instead of actually launching the game.

    35. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by mwvdlee · · Score: 2

      Software doesn't want anything, it just does what it's told.
      Your labour though, definitely DOES want to be free, so why are you getting paid for it?

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    36. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Richard_at_work · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Bullshit, software doesn't want anything - *you* want it to be free so you aren't burdened with the problem of paying someone for it.

    37. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't mod a thread in which you are commenting.

    38. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SC4 + expansion and mods is the best city sim every made. sc2k is second to that.

    39. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      Steam does log the time you've spent on every game, last time you've played it and has a "social" system which leaks to your friends such information. I guess such crap as achievements goes there to if you have a game that supports them.
      Sure, Valve gets some "telemetry" that is legitimately very useful to them but this is not too far from Amazon (I believe) spying and timestamping on your e-book, even right down to which page you have been reading.

    40. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by smallfries · · Score: 1

      In a comment about how spying is not stealing you then go on to suppose that it steals your privacy!?! How would that even work? Are you suggesting that origin actually has your privacy after taking it from you?

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
    41. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We all consider you to be a complete mong, so don't stress it.

    42. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty much every game in existence that has saving logs how long you have been playing them.
      People like to know.

      The social side of when you last played games and so on are also quite useful because then your friends can be like, "hey man, we haven't played Killing Floor in a while, let's hop on it and kick some zeds arses!"
      "But it just isn't the same without the Skynet Elite server. That community was so much fun, the mods were well balanced. All other servers are just vanilla.", and then we cry in the corner.

      But really, it is beneficial to both the gamers, developers and Valve.
      Valve got that part right.
      Some of the newer stuff is a little confusing though, even coming from a programmer. It sounds a bit obtuse in the ways it is worded and how it plays out, like all the card stuff and so on.

    43. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      Is it as enjoyable as the newer versions?

      Arguably more so. SC3000 adds additional complexity; but the general consensus is that it didn't really retain the same coherent elegance in doing so. SC4000, in stock form, is a mess, though I'm told that the right collection of mods really helps.

      The most recent one? Less of a sequel, more of an atrocity.

    44. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by antdude · · Score: 1

      How do we know Steam doesn't capture other data like IP addresses?

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    45. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry to break it to you, but you are exactly wrong in both parts of your second sentence.

      For the first fragment: Some words have generally accepted specific meanings. I will take it as accepted that it is possible for a word to have have only one specific meaning, but I'll challenge you to find any in the grandparent comment (yes, I am pointing to 'malware', contending that it doesn't have as specific a meaning as you seem to think). The majority of words (as a prime example, look up the word 'set') have many meanings.

      For the second fragment: In natural languages (as humans spoken outside of the realm of languages that have formal or legal constructions attempting to halt the mutability of language) the meaning of words does exactly that - they change based on what the speaker and the listener think they mean. You are welcome of course to attempt to change human nature if you like, but I'm not too worried that you will impact me personally with your attempts to impose your will on all people.

    46. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      I forgot that it spies your pc and sends home info.(unrelated info)

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    47. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can turn your profile "off" essentially. It isn't difficult and I had my profile set like that for a very long time.

      The amount of time you have been playing the game really doesn't mean shit anyways, at least for me. I leave games running all the time minimized. I have actually forgotten I had borderlands open once for like two days.

    48. Re: SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Steam is being polite. Isn't that special.

      That still doesn't make the process potentially dangerous from a security standpoint.

    49. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      SimCity 4 was the start into the overly complex mess it has become. This exposed too many flaws in the engine. Just try to get people to use that superhighway you built that is an obvious short cut between the residential and industrial centers. It was the last one I played, and from what I have heard from the most recent game, a good thing.

      I agree that SC3000 was the best of the series. Similar to SC2000 but a bit more content.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    50. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by blackomegax · · Score: 1

      +1 lol

    51. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by xclr8r · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Does it allow installation to continue if you decline data collection?

      --
      Beware of those who profit off the docile and persecute the unbelievers.
    52. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Cito · · Score: 1

      That's why any games on origin only I pirate.

      On kickass torrents you can get origin free DRM free games like new dragon age zero DRM

      Quite nice, until DRM is unused torrent is the way

    53. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's why any games on origin only I pirate.

      On kickass torrents you can get origin free DRM free games like new dragon age zero DRM

      Quite nice, until DRM is unused torrent is the way

      Justify your piracy all you like, but the only real way to fight back about DRM is to not use the DRM'd product. To accounting weasels, any pirated copy equals a lost sale and that the DRM wasn't up to snuff, requiring more DRM next time.

    54. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Software should be free. Time and effort should not.

    55. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      False. I want it to be free so that I can *keep using it* without worrying whether the company keeps the DRM server running.

    56. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by kurzweilfreak · · Score: 1

      Really full disclosure: no one really gives a shit. Honestly, people just want to play games. So EA knows my name and computer spec. Big fucking whoop. If you don't want to use it, fucking don't. I'm enjoying Simcity 2000 again.

      --

      kurzweil_freak

      5th Kyu Genbukan Ninpo/KJJR student

      Be the darkness that allows the light to shine.

    57. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Steam does log the time you've spent on every game, last time you've played it and has a "social" system which leaks to your friends such information.

      You can make your profile private so either no, one or just your friends can see it.

      You can also play offline with any game that doesn't require an internet connection. I'm not sure how much telemetry valve gets when you do that.

      On the flipside, you can also leave a game running at the title screen while you go away for 2 weeks, and they'll think you've played for 336 hours... so im not sure how much the teletry is really worth at an individual level; more at an aggregate level maybe.

    58. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're running it in DOSBox on linux do you really want to be downloading, and running under wine, a hulking digital distribution platform/download manager in order to slurp down a single free 2.5MB game?

      I know this makes me an objectively objectionable person(downloading abandonware is, it seems, pretty much up there with killing kittens in blenders thesedays, and as for the argument that abandonware no longer exists, when EA ports this stuff to linux natively and starts genuinely supporting it, i'll be first to cough up some cash), but i'd be inclined to get it for free without installing EA's store
      http://www.xtcabandonware.com/game/832/simcity-2000

    59. Re: SimCity 2000 available for free by tobenemo32 · · Score: 0

      The gas company provides a service to you. Feel free to replace the utility of your choice. Are you at all freaked out if the utility company takes inventory of your room/bedroom?

    60. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by GNious · · Score: 1

      Worked for me - don't know if it is still collecting data, but I did untick the checkbox.

    61. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by Slashjones · · Score: 1

      I would say it should be free as in freedom. Whether it's free as in price would be another matter.

      But software doesn't want anything. It can't.

    62. Re: SimCity 2000 available for free by smallfries · · Score: 1

      If I was would that provide a connection between your comment and mine?
      If I was not would that provide a connection between your comment and mine?

      Is the issue of origin taking information without asking for it related to my comment in any way, or was it specifically about the previous poster doing exactly the thing that he claimed was wrong?

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
    63. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by pchimp · · Score: 1

      Software wants to be free.

      Only if programmers want to be hobbyists.

    64. Re:SimCity 2000 available for free by toddestan · · Score: 1

      I'm kind of the same way, SimCity 3000 just added too much micromanaging. It's fine when you have a small town, but who wants to deal with stuff like individual water pumps wearing out in a large city when you have dozens of the things all built at different times. That's why real cities hire city managers to deal with that kind of stuff. I played the heck out of the first game (on the SNES) and SC2000, but just couldn't get into SC3000. I also played SC4 and it had a lot of problems similar to SC3000 but the mods helped keep it interesting for a bit longer. The mods also actually made my city look like a real city. I also tried the newest game, and it seems more like the Sims on a city (or small town) level than a Simcity game.

  3. doesn't meaning anything ... right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It sure is a good thing that players' behavior as modeled in games has no effect whatsoever on their offline behavior, or in any way informs us about their attitudes toward the real world. That might be disconcerting.

    1. Re:doesn't meaning anything ... right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      If it were, I'd be upset at plumbers who think that the way to solve problems with fungi is to stomp on them.

    2. Re:doesn't meaning anything ... right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You think you're being sarcastic, but you're actually telling the objective truth.

    3. Re:doesn't meaning anything ... right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Games probably influence how people think, but so do books, movies, music, etc. Be consistent and either push for censorship on everything or leave my games alone... Jack Thompson.

    4. Re:doesn't meaning anything ... right? by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      I enjoy going full murder hobo in several games. Postal and Postal II were my absolute favorites.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    5. Re:doesn't meaning anything ... right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apocalypse Weekend. Rescue your dog from the pound, then kill him. Regret nothing.

    6. Re:doesn't meaning anything ... right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair, they also eat some of them. And rescue others, albeit accidentally.

      Just think if Mario had known which castle to go to first instead of wasting all that time rescuing retainers.

    7. Re:doesn't meaning anything ... right? by ZeRu · · Score: 2

      It's even better that politicians don't visit Slashdot, or they might get ideas about what to do with the homeless people.

      --
      If you post as an AC, don't expect me to spend a mod point on you.
    8. Re:doesn't meaning anything ... right? by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      It sure is a good thing that players' behavior as modeled in games has no effect whatsoever on their offline behavior, or in any way informs us about their attitudes toward the real world. That might be disconcerting.

      That is not the interesting part. The players behavior might not match their offline behavior, but it does match the offline behavior of some politicians.

    9. Re:doesn't meaning anything ... right? by v1 · · Score: 1

      It sure is a good thing that players' behavior as modeled in games has no effect whatsoever on their offline behavior,

      Considering all the people that play GTA, I'd tend to agree with that. My car insurance is already too high.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    10. Re:doesn't meaning anything ... right? by neurovish · · Score: 1

      I enjoy going full murder hobo in several games. Postal and Postal II were my absolute favorites.

      My favorite was prompting mass social unrest in Syndicate. Gather up a huge crowd of civillians with the persuadatron, then go around killing a lot of cops so your persuaded citizens pick up their weapons, then turn off the persuadatron and watch as the civillians just start randomly shooting each other.

    11. Re:doesn't meaning anything ... right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hope that people will always be aware of the boundaries between reality and fiction. This world should never be subjected to such horrors as Dwarven Child Care or the Goblinite Refinery.

    12. Re:doesn't meaning anything ... right? by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

      Vlad Tepes had similar ideas.

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
  4. If you can't beat them, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    join them!

  5. Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That game has more problems than just the homeless population.

    1. Re:Who cares? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 4, Informative

      That game has more problems than just the homeless population.

      So does the author:

      Bittanti says that it's impossible to distinguish between videogames and America in the same way that Jean Baudrillard thought it was impossible to distinguish between Disneyland and America. The book, he told me, is about simulation and its discontents, the unexpected convergence and collapse between reality and simulation.

      "To me video games are the so-called 'real America,'" he said. "The real America operates according to a video game logic, and that game logic is neo-liberalism, and that absolutely manifests in San Francisco, that to me is the epicenter of inequality. In San Francisco you either have a Tesla and you drink a seven dollar cappuccino or you're homeless in the streets."

      I think he's been playing games too long. SimCity's reality distortion field claims another victim, which is amazing because it's crap compared to its' predecessors.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    2. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about you stop referring to yourself in the third person, Alex? You're not fooling anyone into thinking you have supporters.

      Also, get a job.

    3. Re:Who cares? by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      To me video games are the so-called 'real America,'" he said. "The real America operates according to a video game logic, and that game logic is neo-liberalism, and that absolutely manifests in San Francisco, that to me is the epicenter of inequality. In San Francisco you either have a Tesla and you drink a seven dollar cappuccino or you're homeless in the streets."

      I think he's been playing games too long. SimCity's reality distortion field claims another victim, which is amazing because it's crap compared to its' predecessors.

      Ever lived in San Francisco? Sounds pretty close to reality to me. Not everyone who isn't rich is homeless in the streets, though. Some of them are students with rich parents, but they themselves aren't technically rich yet. They just look rich with their Audi and their expensive clothes and new phone every year. While the rank and file who make the seven dollar cappucinos, flip the burgers and whatnot are stacked up five or six to a house with people living in hallways and closets.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      APK? You're wasting our time with _that_ mendicant?

      His only skill is making a hundred eyes roll with every one of his posts.

    5. Re:Who cares? by Cito · · Score: 1

      APK, can I solve homelessness in my PC games with a good hosts file??? :-P

    6. Re:Who cares? by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      And homeless population - that's a problem that occurs in most cities.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    7. Re:Who cares? by reve_etrange · · Score: 1

      I think he's been playing games too long.

      He certainly hasn't been reading San Francisco demographic information.

      --
      .: Semper Absurda :.
    8. Re:Who cares? by reve_etrange · · Score: 1

      Ever lived in San Francisco? Sounds pretty close to reality to me.

      I can understand why someone who didn't grow up in the Bay and who hasn't spend much time outside of certain districts would have that impression.

      About 25% of San Franciscan households have incomes above $100,000 and about 13% are poverty-level or below. For comparison, those numbers for Alameda County are ~17% and ~13%, respectively. Yeah, SF has more inequality, but not to the extremes sometimes imagined.

      (Numbers from demographia.com and US census data).

      --
      .: Semper Absurda :.
    9. Re: Who cares? by JockTroll · · Score: 1, Funny

      Yeah, like we cannot take on more than one problem at a time, right? Face it: homelessness in Sim City IS A PROBLEM. It needs to be addressed NOW. It's not like all those homeless are going away if you ignore them. What are you going to do, force them to emigrate? To where, the Mushroom Kingdom? In case you haven't noticed there's a permanent status of civil war there. Some of these homeless people are veterans with severe psych issues and they're of all ages - from Battlezone tank crewmembers to Call of Duty former SpecOps - they need HELP. So get off your high Skyrim-imported horse and press F12, dammit!

      --
      Geeks are so full of shit that "beating the crap out of them" takes a whole new meaning.
    10. Re:Who cares? by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      How about you respond to APK? You spouted some bullshit claims and he called you out. Where's your response?

      Jeez, give it a rest man. You're getting worse than the mycleanpc thing but not as funny.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    11. Re:Who cares? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      I can understand why someone who didn't grow up in the Bay and who hasn't spend much time outside of certain districts would have that impression.

      I grew up in Santa Cruz, and I've been to SF dozens of times. I lived there for about a year. I know many people who live there. It's you that's ignorant as to how people live in SF.

      About 25% of San Franciscan households have incomes above $100,000 and about 13% are poverty-level or below.

      How is a "household" defined? If you put five kids making minimum wage into a house, that's a household with income above $100,000, but everyone in that house is still in poverty.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    12. Re:Who cares? by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      if those homeless moved to somewhere that didnt cost 5 grand a month to live in a 500 foot 1 room studio, they might be able to actually live. I have no pity for people who force themselves into these issues.

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    13. Re:Who cares? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      if those homeless moved to somewhere that didnt cost 5 grand a month to live in a 500 foot 1 room studio, they might be able to actually live. I have no pity for people who force themselves into these issues.

      The question then becomes, who's going to make coffee, and pizza? Who's going to man the cash registers? They're really all expected to scurry in from outside the city limits to do the bidding of their corporate masters? The public transportation system in SF is a bit shit, that's really not practical.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    14. Re:Who cares? by ganjadude · · Score: 0

      costs will eventually even out if people stop trying to live above their means. When no one who lives there is willing to work at starbucks because it doesnt pay enough, they will either start paying better or the cost of living will fall to normal levels.

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    15. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This didn't use to happen when we could ignore people's freedom and lock them up in mental institutions.

    16. Re:Who cares? by ComputerGeek01 · · Score: 1

      How is a "household" defined? If you put five kids making minimum wage into a house, that's a household with income above $100,000, but everyone in that house is still in poverty.

      That's only if you interpret the poverty line in terms of individual discretionary income as opposed to a standard of living. A large part of the cost of living is fixed costs such as rent and utilities which would be split among the occupants. In addition, the potentially variable costs of necessities such as food, scale pretty well in this country where whole sale markets are adjacent to pretty much every major city. I'll grant you that things like health care and auto insurance would still be a problem, but that's because they're still broken.

    17. Re:Who cares? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      So according to your definition, a single-income family with a spouse and 3 kids with an income of over $100,000 is still living in poverty. I don't think so.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    18. Re:Who cares? by ComputerGeek01 · · Score: 1

      When no one who lives there is willing to work at starbucks because it doesnt pay enough, they will either start paying better or the cost of living will fall to normal levels.

      Are you even from America? Neither one of those scenarios is what happens in the situation you propose to engineer here. What happens is that the cities form economic enclaves for the lower class that are "separated" from the rest of the city by some subtle landmark such as a city park, commercial\industrial district, railroad track or other non-residential zone. These areas are called Municipal Housing Projects and the properties are ubiquitously subsidized with rent assistance programs such as Section 8 to make the prospect of living there attractive to the point where some people think it's their only viable option. I'm not sure where you got these romanticized ideas of collective bargaining for the unskilled labor market, or why you think that you can win at this game by not playing but you need to drop them while you're ostensibly still young. Now I have nothing against Bohemianism if that's your choice, but remember that literally any other life style is going to require some actual effort on your part

    19. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only 50 people see his posts on /.? I guess that's what I get for cruising at -1.

    20. Re:Who cares? by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      i think you are missing the point I was trying to make which was to simply leave the area that is expensive and move to somewhere that is affordable. 20 grand in NYC or san fran is "homeless" but in other states it is enough to live comfortably.

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    21. Re:Who cares? by reve_etrange · · Score: 1

      So according to your definition, a single-income family with a spouse and 3 kids with an income of over $100,000 is still living in poverty. I don't think so.

      Actually, they wouldn't be even then. The federal poverty line is $11,670 for an individual. Of course, there's actually a nonlinear dependence on the household size - the line for a household of 5 is $27,910. I guess (like most) the parent doesn't really understand poverty.

      --
      .: Semper Absurda :.
    22. Re:Who cares? by reve_etrange · · Score: 1

      I grew up in Santa Cruz, and I've been to SF dozens of times. I lived there for about a year. I know many people who live there. It's you that's ignorant as to how people live in SF.

      Wow, dozens. </eyeroll>

      If you put five kids making minimum wage into a house, that's a household with income above $100,000, but everyone in that house is still in poverty.

      No, they aren't. The poverty line for an individual is $11,670, and $27,910 total for a family/household of 5 people.

      --
      .: Semper Absurda :.
    23. Re:Who cares? by reve_etrange · · Score: 1

      That's only if you interpret the poverty line in terms of individual discretionary income as opposed to a standard of living.

      Not even then. The federal poverty line for a single person is $11,670, not $20,000. The poverty line for a five-person household is $27,910.

      I'll grant you that things like health care and auto insurance would still be a problem, but that's because they're still broken.

      I wont dispute that our health care system is broken, but...$100,000 per year is easily enough for auto insurance and Brone or Silver level subsidized ACA plans. If the five 20-somethings in the example somehow managed to file together, a Bronze plan would cost them ~$250 / mo. This is out of a monthly income of $8333 and includes all five individuals. Actually, if they filed separately, the Bronze plan would be free (estimated cost of $0 for 1 adult making $20,000).

      Now, Medicaid (Medi-Cal here) provides free coverage to an individual making 133% of the poverty line or below ($15,521 or $37,120 for five people). At this level, the main barrier to receiving healthcare are knowledge of the process, transit time/cost and the local availability of Medicaid doctors, as opposed to direct health care costs.

      Auto insurance is a different story in most places. But in California, the CCLA program provides very low cost insurance to people making less than 250% of the poverty line. For one person in San Francisco County, the annual premium is ~$265.

      --
      .: Semper Absurda :.
    24. Re:Who cares? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Wow, dozens.

      Yes, before I lived there.

      The poverty line for an individual is $11,670, and $27,910 total for a family/household of 5 people.

      Not in San Francisco, it ain't.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    25. Re:Who cares? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      A large part of the cost of living is fixed costs such as rent and utilities which would be split among the occupants.

      Have you ever paid $800/mo for rent while making minimum wage part time? Because you can easily pay that much for a room in a house in many cities, not just San Francisco. And not a big room, with a walk-in closet. You might well pay that much for the closet, irony of ironies.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    26. Re:Who cares? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Well, we can always see if they can keep a roof over their head at the poverty line if you throw in $300 a month for prescription drugs.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    27. Re:Who cares? by ComputerGeek01 · · Score: 1

      Ah, so you are exalting the fluidity of transiatism. Sorry for missing that. It doesn't actually impugn* upon the issue of a localized labor shortage, which is the point that I was trying to extrapolate on. You seem to be suggesting that the upper middle class would fall into hopeless desperation upon the exit of your (constituents?**/cohorts). I want to remind you that every political party have been gunning for our necks for more then a couple of centuries and that we have neither staggered nor fallen in our pursuit.

      *: Literal Ancillary Comment: Parlez vous le francais. I'm from Buffalo, Give me a freaking break here!!!

      **: Question, not a comment.

    28. Re:Who cares? by reve_etrange · · Score: 1

      And $4.50 per day for cheeseburgers.

      --
      .: Semper Absurda :.
    29. Re:Who cares? by cwsumner · · Score: 1

      Living in big cities is crazy! What are you doing there? Move to where you can afford to live... Like I did.

  6. Does SimCity allow you to.... by elfprince13 · · Score: 5, Funny

    host the Olympics?

    1. Re:Does SimCity allow you to.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Not in muslin countries. I suggest the cure for terrorism is burkas of LINEN. It doesn't make you itch.

    2. Re:Does SimCity allow you to.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      ... burkas of LINEN ...

      Men don't wear burqas, so I don't know how this stops terrorism.

      Give a man a uniform, he's the boss. Give a man a bible/quoran, he's right. Give a man a gun, he owns the unarmed.

    3. Re:Does SimCity allow you to.... by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1
      --
      Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
  7. basic income for the poor! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just type FUND.

    Oh wait, that only gives free money to the elite capitalists. Why is SimCity so classist??

  8. oh the humanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    If this dude is morally outraged by the way people play Sim City I can only hope someone alerts them to the way people play Dwarf Fortress.

    1. Re: oh the humanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I say we strap him to a chair A Clockwork Orange style and make him watch a teenager play Hatred.
      That oughta break him.

    2. Re:oh the humanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think the PC name for that game is Little People's Fortress.

    3. Re:oh the humanity by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      I think the PC name for that game is Little People's Fortress.

      Vertically Challenged People's Fortress, you pusillanimous poltroon.

    4. Re:oh the humanity by thunderclap · · Score: 1

      If this dude is morally outraged by the way people play Sim City I can only hope someone alerts them to the way people play Dwarf Fortress.

      Are their homeless people in Dwarf Fortress? I think not.

    5. Re:oh the humanity by SharpFang · · Score: 2

      Nope, but there are lazy Nobles, who do nothing except making demands (between trivial and impossible), which you are obligued to obey or face sanctions.

      So people build "immigrant sorters". A gate which remains open when the immigrants arrive, then lines them up allowing only one immigrant at a time to pass, and allow Nazi concentration camp style selection with a toggle of a switch. Left - work. Right - gas chamber. That way they eliminate the nobles before they can become a problem.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    6. Re:oh the humanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, depends on how you count it if you don't build them bedrooms.

      Though if you turn your entire fortress into vampires I don't think they really need them.

    7. Re:oh the humanity by smallfries · · Score: 1

      Is that some kind of copyright thing with the console version?

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
    8. Re:oh the humanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my fort? Yes. All of them.
      Oh god I wish I could play.
      But that menu system man. THAT MENU SYSTEM.
      It breaks every reg in the handbook except contrast. (in fact, partially scratch that, dorf profiles break that regularly with those dark colors!)
      (I am sorta playing around, I can play the game)

      Every time the menu system is brought up, Toady (and others) always goes on about how it is fine.
      It isn't fine at all. The menu system is literally the hardest part of the game simply because it is tedious and obtuse as high hell.
      The game outside of that is relatively simple, straightforward and fun. (and FUN)
      The menu blows so much. That is mostly down to inconsistency in hotkeys and scrolling, not to mention the different ways of assigning areas of an activity, such as building a wall, plots and so on. I think there are like 4 different sets of keys to assign areas! WHY?!
      One day, one day I wish he would just sit down and get pissed off enough at the UI that he says, "nope, that's it, done with this, time to make a consistent menu builder, hotkey system and controls!"
      He won't. He'll die before that. Don't die you toad! I WILL RAISE HELL IF YOU DIE.
      Half the menu items in some menus are alphabetical and then suddenly become a mish-mash of order. And from what I heard, there are STILL menu items that have the wrong names / inconsistent names between different menus. (throne/chair, etc.)

      There comes a point when adding features simply isn't worth it when your car has 5 different types of wheel with 1 of them not even connected to anything, 1 door, seats made of shattered glass and a steering wheel made out of lava.
      It makes me cry inside. And outside. And it just made you cry thinking about it.

    9. Re:oh the humanity by rHBa · · Score: 1

      Are SimCity's homeless people in Dwarf Fortress or the player's homeless people?

    10. Re:oh the humanity by Talderas · · Score: 1

      People who are homeless are most often unable to acquire and maintain regular, safe, secure, and adequate housing/

      The housing for dwarfs in dwarf fortress typically fails on the safe and secure parts. So they're pretty much a bunch of squatters.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    11. Re:oh the humanity by Talderas · · Score: 1

      That is brilliant.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    12. Re:oh the humanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Are their homeless people in Dwarf Fortress?"

      Depends how you build your fortress.

    13. Re:oh the humanity by steelfood · · Score: 1

      There's a version for Macs?

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    14. Re:oh the humanity by Zephyn · · Score: 1

      Nope, but there are lazy Nobles, who do nothing except making demands (between trivial and impossible), which you are obligued to obey or face sanctions.

      So people build "immigrant sorters". A gate which remains open when the immigrants arrive, then lines them up allowing only one immigrant at a time to pass, and allow Nazi concentration camp style selection with a toggle of a switch. Left - work. Right - gas chamber. That way they eliminate the nobles before they can become a problem.

      Glory to Arstotzka!

    15. Re:oh the humanity by airdweller · · Score: 1

      " A gate which remains open when the immigrants arrive, then lines them up allowing only one immigrant at a time to pass, and allow Nazi concentration camp style selection with a toggle of a switch. Left - work. Right - gas chamber. That way they eliminate the nobles before they can become a problem."

      "Noble = death" was more of a Soviet paradigm.

    16. Re:oh the humanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      differently heightened, alternatively heightened, height questioning, or LPDHAQH (for little people/differently heightened/alternatively heightened/height questioning)

    17. Re:oh the humanity by cwsumner · · Score: 1

      I think the PC name for that game is Little People's Fortress.

      No they are not little, they are full size... for them. You are just oversized!

  9. What ?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... creative strategies for their virtual homelessness ...

    What, no turning them into dog-food (see 'Soylent green'), or killing the elderly (see "Logan's run")? Or if you like socialism, raise a tax to fund soup kitchens and free contraception.

  10. One solution, I would think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Would be to build your city above the arctic circle.

    1. Re:One solution, I would think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nope

      signed
      northern canada

  11. Not a problem by Blaskowicz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Better to have homeless people on welfare in the streets rather than only drunken frat boys, small criminals and drug addicts. Problem in the US is you don't give them enough welfare (or at all) and no healthcare, hell homeful people at full time min wage employment don't even have healthcare. Nationalise all the evul healthcare companies (this cuts red tape), make the price of medicines drop, make welfare easier to get (less red tape) and redistribute the half a trillion or so you've saved in welfare.

    1. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HA. You make it sound like it would be a good idea to provide healthcare and welfare support instead of the more expensive option of not doing that. What a prole. Don't you know that what we have done in the past is always the best option. At the way things are going, people will sail west in hopes of getting away from persecution, but they wouldn't know the world is flat, so they'd fall off beyond Hawaii.

    2. Re:Not a problem by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      We tried to fix the healthcare. We have Mitt Romney care and it sucks for everyone.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    3. Re: Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Considering the "productive" people are hoarding up all the work and basically forcing as many people as they can to be unproductive...

    4. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This simply isn't true. If were simply a question of the amount of resources available, then the U.S. is not much different than any other developed country. San Francisco in particular has a more progressive homeless outreach program than almost any other city in the entire world--if the homeless population hadn't doubled in the past 15 years, we'd have already housed every last homeless person in the city.

      The problem with homelessness in America is complex, but it mostly comes down to two things: 1) you have to jump through a ridiculous amount of hoops to get assistance, and 2) the people most vulnerable to falling into homelessness (i.e. those with mental illness or disorders) are the least capable of jumping through those hoops.

      We have lots of hoops because of two things: 1.a) our patchwork of federal, state, and municipal programs and 1.b) the American idea of self-help and individualism. The source of 1.a is obvious. 1.b is problematic not because our ideas of self-help and our belief that America is a meritocratic land of opportunity is fundamentally bad. As an American I'm aware of and conscious of my own emphasis on these qualities, and I frankly I like that I'm that way. The problem is that too many Americans don't realize that these ideas are just cultural preferences, and are not connected to reality. They're aspirations rather descriptions of our society. Because people don't realize this, they think that self-help is easier than it is. To admit that self-help isn't very easy is in some sense a denial of the vision of America they hold in their head.

      As for #2, since we've dismantled our mental institutions we've abandoned a huge segment of our population in dire need of state assistance. We did that for two reasons, 2.a) money and 2.b) concern with freedom. Regarding 2.a, I think it's fair to say that we're losing more wealth thanks to our failure to address these problems. Regarding 2.b: it's true that the government once abusively used it's power to commit people to mental institutions without them having committed a crime. From the perspective of a society obsessed with individual liberty, that's an abhorrent state of affairs. However, the problem with mental illness and disorders (of all varieties, not simply clinical illness) is that it's fundamentally in conflict with our assumptions about free will, as well as with an economic approach (personal incentives, costs, etc) to the problem. We need to adjust the way we resolve this conflict and become more comfortable with the idea of _forcing_ people into assistance. And we need to realize that the moral of hazard of "handouts" is nowhere near as significant as it would be if we were all perfectly rational actors, _especially_ when we're giving handouts to those people at the very bottom.

    5. Re:Not a problem by Livius · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There's really not a lot of correlation between success and productivity.

      Sure there's some, but not as much as you might think.

    6. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Strawman arguments are lies.

    7. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Don't worry, eventually we'll get smart enough to blame the parasites leeching off the system to the disadvantage of the rest of us....

      By which I mean the Insurance companies, of course, who did YOU think I was talking about?

    8. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      1.a) our patchwork of federal, state, and municipal programs and 1.b) the American idea of self-help and individualism.

      And reason c: People are worried someone might abuse the system. For some reason, people like the idea that it is better to let 9 guilty men go than an innocent man go to prison, so promote the idea of a justice system that makes it harder to get convicted (or at least used to...), but think it is better to let 9 people starve so one person can't scam his way into a small amount of money and crappy way of life.

    9. Re:Not a problem by ultranova · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We have lots of hoops because of two things: 1.a) our patchwork of federal, state, and municipal programs and 1.b) the American idea of self-help and individualism.

      No, the truth is uglier than that. A society committed to "self-help and individualism" would strive to ensure opportunities are available to anyone who cares to take them, no matter where they happen to be, and that one can actually risk failing without also risking homelessness. Such societies exist, and are typically derided as "nanny states" by Americans - because compensating for human frailties and failings is what it takes to actually make it possible for people to follow their own path and seek their dreams.

      Someone once said US's problem is that everyone thinks they're a temporarily embarassed millionaire. But that leaves out a key fact: everyone thinks they're a temporarily embarassed millionaire who wants to ensure they can stomp on those below them, once they get to the top, and votes accordingly. Thus the seemingly irrational support from middle class to policies destructive to said middle class. It's a self-made hell.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    10. Re:Not a problem by jader3rd · · Score: 2

      since we've dismantled our mental institutions we've abandoned a huge segment of our population in dire need of state assistance. We did that for two reasons, 2.a) money and 2.b) concern with freedom.

      I'm pretty sure it was due to the fact that media, particularly Hollywood, loved to portray those institutions in as negative a light as possible. They succeeded so well that instead of trying to encourage improvements, no politician has the political capital to survive should something imperfect happen in them while they're in office. So it's easier to get rid of the institutions than risk some sort of scandal.

    11. Re:Not a problem by s.petry · · Score: 3, Insightful

      1.a) our patchwork of federal, state, and municipal programs and 1.b) the American idea of self-help and individualism.

      And reason c: People are worried someone might abuse the system. For some reason, people like the idea that it is better to let 9 guilty men go than an innocent man go to prison, so promote the idea of a justice system that makes it harder to get convicted (or at least used to...), but think it is better to let 9 people starve so one person can't scam his way into a small amount of money and crappy way of life.

      People _DO_ abuse the system, in fact show me a country with any form of welfare that is not abused. The problem in the US is that those abuses are on both ends of the spectrum. Like other countries we have people that camp on welfare because it's easier than working. That is the portion of risk we consider to be manageable and expected because the percentage is generally very small. Where the US differs greatly is that our programs are abused at the top as well. People "managing" these services receive extra pay for not doing their job. Performing actions like cancelling programs instead of improving programs. This is a very open corruption that anyone can see, though few dare call it corruption... our media calls it "cost saving". This does not just happen with Welfare either, but VA benefits, and Social Security, and just about everything else.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    12. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ...ensure opportunities are available to anyone who cares to take them...

      Yes, I'd like to live in a world where anyone who was willing to do an honest days work could easily find a job that paid enough to support a small family simply but comfortably (and safely). There's certainly a huge amount of work that needs doing to solve the world's big problems.

      Something that worries me, though, is that much of the work that needs doing isn't work that rich people who control the most of the economy are particularly inclined to pay for. In theory, it should be possible to achieve full employment in an economy that produces mostly designer handbags and other frivolous luxury goods. But an economy can only consume what it produces - so if only a small fraction of the economy is devoted to producing basic necessities (with the rest going to designer handbags) then most of the population will face a shortage of basic necessities.

      In a perfect capitalist free market, there should never be any unemployment because wages should always adjust to a level that achieves full employment. But what if the free market wages are less than what is needed to live simply but comfortably? In developing countries, you'll see a little five year old girl standing in a busy intersection beating a broken drum hoping to earn enough coins by entertaining the passing motorists that she won't starve to death. In a certain sense, a triumph of capitalism. Now, there are countries that seem to do pretty well at providing almost everyone with work that pays enough to live comfortably. But such countries have strong socialist tax systems that redistribute large amounts of wealth from the rich to everyone else (with much of the redistribution being indirect in the form of such things as public infrastructure and education).

      It's nice to imagine that a capitalist free market could provide not only full employment but full employment in jobs that pay a living wage - that one could have a small government with low taxes that mostly just kept out of everyone's way where good jobs that paid enough to live on were easily available. But factual observation really just doesn't support that fantasy.

    13. Re: Not a problem by gordo3000 · · Score: 1

      Actually we have a system where justices are happy to see a not guilty man fry as long as the paper work is in order. Proof of innocence isn't enough, you need to get that paperwork filed in time, and before they throw the switch may not be in time.

    14. Re: Not a problem by gordo3000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There is also an incredible lack of knowledge about other systems. The choice isn't between working people starving on the streets and French style socialism where every job and employer has tons of regulation and tons of worker classifications along with huge welfare payments.

      I've come to enjoy the Japanese system. It has a fundamental thread of responsibilitythat resonates with me and a strong sense of EVERYONE pays something, even the guy with 0 income for an extended period. It may not be much (20 bucks a month for health insurance) but you are legally required to get it and pay for it. The state will watch out for you, as long as you always fulfill your own responsibilities to society.

      And yeah, if you go cheap and try to save 20 bucks don't get sick because you are expected to show an ability to pay immediately (but you can always get back into the state program by paying all your owed back premiums).

    15. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      But that leaves out a key fact: everyone thinks they're a temporarily embarassed millionaire who wants to ensure they can stomp on those below them, once they get to the top, and votes accordingly.

      A great quote from ST:DS9: "You don't understand. Ferengi workers don't want to stop the exploitation. We want to find a way to become the exploiters." And considering that Ferengis were originally stated to be 19th century Yankee traders (in the more derogatory sense, it rather fits. The same era that creates the archetype of Scrooge McDuck. Pre-unions. With all the notion that the world ran on ambition and that somehow that was a way to live.

      The real disgusting part of it all is precisely that 99% of people can't be in the 1% by the very definition of it. So, to aim for that and chide everyone else.. But, as you say, it's a self-made hell.

    16. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In a perfect capitalist free market, there should never be any unemployment because wages should always adjust to a level that achieves full employment.

      Not really, no. Even a cursory look at example supply and demand charts invariably show that supply and demand almost always meet somewhere lower than maximum supply. The law of diminishing returns gives a hint why. Further, you can pay the worst employees less and less because of their lackluster performance until the point that employees slowly or quickly starve to death. Finally, full employment would create massive liquidity issues which would have a yoyo effect on wages; a short-term shortage could double wages and a short-term surplus could cause wages to halve. This because 100% (or near 100%) consumption of a good tends to result in great elasticity--the risk of famine, perhaps, or the possibility to resell to others at a higher rate.

      In any case, this but one of many reasons why the whole notion of people being able to support themselves wholly even in theory is rubbish.

    17. Re:Not a problem by reve_etrange · · Score: 4, Informative

      Like other countries we have people that camp on welfare because it's easier than working.

      I do agree with the substance of your post, but what do you mean by welfare? The United States doesn't really have any unconditional cash transfer programs, which is what most people think of when they hear the term "welfare." TANF for example is restricted to families with children, has a lifetime limit of 60 months of benefits for any individual and recipients must have a job within 24 months of joining the program. After doing a bunch of research on our means-tested social programs, I just don't see how it would be possible for a single, able-bodied, working-age individual to satisfy all their needs using federal transfers alone.

      I also don't think it's far to call social insurance programs "welfare." They're insurance policies operated by government, with mandatory premiums garnished from wages. You have to have paid the premiums to get the benefits.

      Where the US differs greatly is that our programs are abused at the top as well.

      Agree 100%, though I don't think the US is alone worldwide in this regard, even if it stands out among OECD members.

      --
      .: Semper Absurda :.
    18. Re: Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thoughtful post - eureka, eureka
      now i get arrested for running around naked and that is all your fault.

    19. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even a cursory look at example supply and demand charts invariably show that supply and demand almost always meet somewhere lower than maximum supply.

      That's a good point that it's a bit more complicated. Now, on one hand, full employment doesn't mean that everyone is employed 100% of the time. It means that everyone is employed as much as they want to be - that they can find as much work as they want.

      But how much work does a person want? Well, in a perfect free market there would be no social safety net so presumably a person would want enough work to at least cover basic necessities. If wages are high then a person may be able to only work a few hours a day and still live a comfortable life. As wages start to fall, though, they need to work more and more just to cover basic necessities - until they eventually reach the maximum that they are physically capable of working each day. And when wages fall below that point then they won't even be able to cover their basic necessities. And this is, in fact, what seems to happen in free market economies without income redistribution: most of the population ends up being desperately poor unable to work enough to afford basic necessities.

      Imagine, on the other hand, a country with a guaranteed minimum income. In that case, as wages fell people would work less and less until some people dropped out of the economy entirely. You'd have to be careful not to set the minimum income too high or the total economic productivity of the economy would drop below the total economic productivity required to provide the minimum income. But that would be fairly easy to avoid: just take some fraction of the total economic productivity in the country and redistribute it equally as the minimum income.

    20. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A startling observation that many fail to fully appreciate: the US has a very effective welfare system and it's called the "Armed Forces". The only catch (compared to more enlightened nations around the globe) is that you may be killed in exchange for your welfare check...

    21. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Of course, yes. Anyone who is successful is eeeeeevil and greedy, anyone who is poor is noble and just and deserves to be taken care of for free. "

      Do you think we in europe take care of our poor because we feel they are noble and just and actually deserve it? Think again. We are the people who gassed jews and poor. The people who have annihilated millions of people with no remorse, the people who genocide with smile on our faces. The poor are taken care of because that's cheap, and it protects us. We currently don't want to kill that human trash (and neither do you), so we keep them content enough not to rob and steal, and healthy enough not to spread diseases, and so their condition doesn't get expensive. We prevent the expensive conditions before they are emergencies. US waits for the poor to almost die, then heal them back up, and THAT costs shittons of money.

    22. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you think we in europe take care of our poor because we feel they are noble and just and actually deserve it? Think again. We are the people who gassed jews and poor. The people who have annihilated millions of people with no remorse, the people who genocide with smile on our faces.

      Huh? /Swedish

    23. Re:Not a problem by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Informative

      San Francisco in particular has a more progressive homeless outreach program than almost any other city in the entire world

      Not really. In the EU shelter is a human right. I haven't travelled to every country, but at least in the UK and France we don't have homeless people any more. Everyone has the right to shelter - it might not be very nice shelter, but the government will put a roof over your head no matter what. It's massively reduced begging too, because no no-one has an excuse for being on the street when they could be helping themselves with government assistance.

      Having a fixed address is really important. You can't get a job without a fixed address, and somewhere to shower and shave. Plus, it keeps people off the streets and out of the criminal justice system, so it's a win for everyone.

      I'm sure San Fran is doing better than most US cities, but the US is so far behind Europe to start with... You can't really make that claim.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    24. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People _DO_ abuse the system, in fact show me a country with any form of welfare that is not abused.

      The post you are replying to didn't say it was without abuse. The point was that people make all sorts of justifications based on a small portion of abusers, or at least without making any effort to establish how many people are abusing it. That factors into things like you say about temptations to cancel instead of improve services. Way too often I've seen people, both actually involved in the government, and just regular people expressing a political views, that amounts to, "I saw today that someone did X and this is why we can't have such a system.," in reference to a single person. How many nonabusers are using the system? How many people don't care, and are just using it as a thin cover to them not wanting a system that helps others?

    25. Re:Not a problem by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Welfare is not a solution.
      Welfare is great for helping people having a hard time, the ill, and old. What is needed is jobs and education. Sitting home all day doing nothing helps no one.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    26. Re:Not a problem by ganjadude · · Score: 0

      romney only worked in one state, as per the 10th amendment. Obamacare on the other hand, was forced on us by 1 party.

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    27. Re:Not a problem by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      if the homeless population hadn't doubled in the past 15 years, we'd have already housed every last homeless person in the city.

      Is it not possible that San Frans take care of the homeless problem is what caused the homeless population to double? Make it known that you will give free stuff to homeless, they will continue to go there. Make it known that homeless people will have to look for a job to get help, and they will leave for somewhere that doesnt. (not all of them of course, but enough of them to make it a problem)

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    28. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup, the republican party. Those assholes fucked up single payer and now we have this unholy Romney mess.

    29. Re:Not a problem by gl4ss · · Score: 2

      "Yes, I'd like to live in a world where anyone who was willing to do an honest days work could easily find a job that paid enough to support a small family simply but comfortably (and safely)."

      that criteria is always unfortunately compared to those around you.

      so "comfortably" might mean a two bedroom apartment or a 4 bedroom house with garden and everything. it might mean being able to drink 3 nights a week or 1 night a month. ...and if you look at globally, then nordic nanny states are best at providing what you described as ideal. sure it might be -20C outside but you sure wouldn't be freezing but being in a comfortable warm home with hot running water.. ..and in the countries where almost everyone works for cash money with no protections or paying taxes everyone is fucked and making day by day

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    30. Re:Not a problem by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      That probably cuts both ways. When you are a major city in a part of the country that has very mild weather year round, and you get a reputation for helping the homeless then you will likely attract more homeless. If other major cities, even in crappier climates did a better job, then SF would probably get less homeless immigration. SF also has very high property values and is surrounded by other areas with outrageous property values, so it wouldn't surprise me if they actually generated a significant amount of homeless people.

    31. Re:Not a problem by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      1b. I think another issue is that if people acknowledge that self help and personal effort is a smaller part of the pie success wise, then they have to admit that much of what they have is a result of luck, rather than their own efforts. Few people like to admit that they are where they are, and have what they have, primarily because of luck, rather than because of their hard work.

      As evidence of that witness all the rage about the "you didn't build that all on your own" that Elizabeth Warren stirred up some time ago.

    32. Re:Not a problem by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      Uhhh... Why are you giving credit to Mitt Romney for President Obama's signature legislative achievement? Romney has never held office in the Federal Government and anyway hasn't held any office since 2007.

      If you don't like Obamacare, that's fine. But realize that the reason that you have Obamacare is because President Obama wants you to. He burned every last iota of his political capital to get it passed. Obamacare is 100% Obama.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    33. Re:Not a problem by killfixx · · Score: 2

      Last Week Tonight with John Oliver had a great segment about this exact problem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      --
      "Helping to keep you two steps ahead of the Thought Police!"
    34. Re:Not a problem by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      I will admit that it has been about 10 years since I lived in Paris but I seem to remember a fair number of people living in subway stations and in some of the gardens fairly well hidden. So have things changed recently or is this just viewing things through rose colored glasses? Also I remember a fair number of panhandlers, not as bad a down town Portland, OR but substantially higher than in the Twin Cities in Minnesota.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    35. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A society committed to "self-help and individualism" would strive to ensure opportunities are available to anyone who cares to take them, no matter where they happen to be, and that one can actually risk failing without also risking homelessness.

      Some people (mentally ill, severely disabled, addicts) can't take those opportunities. Not to say that society shouldn't put more resources into mental health services and rehab, but there will always be some people who just need to be taken care of.

    36. Re:Not a problem by blackomegax · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The ACA was cooked up by a republican thinktank and forced down the democrats throats as a 'compromise' to single-payer, for the sole benefit of insurance companies, and now you get to blame democrats for your problems. Perfect.

    37. Re:Not a problem by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1

      Obamacare is 100% Obama.

      Had Republican Mitt Romney not implemented socialized medicine in his state, there wouldn't have been the impetus to force it on the rest of us.

      However, since Mitt felt it was perfectly acceptable to force people to hand over their money to private companies, one can't complain when the President does the same thing to everyone else.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    38. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's modeled after a similar statewide program signed into law by Romney when he was governor of Massechusetts.

    39. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Homelessness seems tied to drug addiction and mental illness from what I can see. Most these people don't want help, they just want their next fix.

      I regularly gave to the homeless in SF, but I knew where my money was going.

    40. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here in the UK, our current government is "cracking down" on disability benefit fraud by making those benefits harder to get for everyone (especially the mentally ill and developmentally disabled, who can't jump through the necessary hoops as easily). But our fraud rate for those benefits is about 0.5%. So the ratio is more like "let 199 starve to prevent 1 scamming of the system".

    41. Re: Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everytime I hear someone bragging about working 60 hours a week for 40 hours salary I just laugh and shake my head.

    42. Re:Not a problem by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      Had Republican Mitt Romney not implemented socialized medicine in his state, there wouldn't have been the impetus to force it on the rest of us.

      This is not a reasonable argument. There are many places in the world where the government runs healthcare and central to both Clinton's and Obama's presidential campaigns were a promise that the federal government would take over healthcare. Socialized medicine was coming irrespective of the Massachusetts experiment.

      However, since Mitt felt it was perfectly acceptable to force people to hand over their money to private companies, one can't complain when the President does the same thing to everyone else.

      This is ridiculous. Why could President Obama not have learned from the mistakes of MassHealth?

      All of the Republicans' warnings about what would happen under Obamacare, which all came true of course, where do you think we came up with those objections? Off the top of my head: We warned that employers would drop coverage for their employees because it happened in MA. We warned that doctors would stop accepting Obamacare plans because that's what happened in MA. We warned that it would be expensive for both the taxpayer and the policyholder because that's what happened in MA. We said that it still wouldn't cover everyone because that's what happened in MA.

      For this we were labeled obstructionist. But when the president is in the process of fucking up by not learning from the mistakes made in MA, obstructing was the proper course of action! Now we have to live with the consequences. My insurance costs tripled because of Obamacare and the coverage is worse and my taxes are higher. This is the exact opposite of what President Obama promised me would happen, and I am not happy.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    43. Re:Not a problem by operagost · · Score: 1

      Romney explained that he felt his plan only worked on the state level. In other words, if every state did what he did, administered it within in each state, and tailored it for its citizens, he would be OK with it. You can decide he lied, but the fact is that he never once claimed it would work on a federal level. There are also several parts of the Massachusetts health care law that he vetoed, but the Democrats unilaterally (because they controlled the legislature) reinstated.

      FWIW, I'm not even fond of this on the state level. But at least, when states do it by definition it is limited in scope and subject to greater influence by the people subjected to it.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    44. Re:Not a problem by operagost · · Score: 2

      What you have said is a flat out lie. The ACA came out of a Senate finance committee that was all Democrats and liberal Republicans-- mostly Democrats-- and was passed without a single vote from a Republican in a Democrat-controlled congress.

      Did something resembling it appear from the Heritage Foundation? Yes, and it was a bad idea then. But a sketchy proposal from a "Republican think-tank" is not the same as legislation from elected representatives.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    45. Re:Not a problem by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      It has improved in the last 10 years, not least because they were bidding for the 2012 Olympics.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    46. Re:Not a problem by ganjadude · · Score: 2

      wow, the spin is strong here. frame it how you wish, no republican voted for the actual bill, that was all democrats, and obama owns it.

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    47. Re:Not a problem by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      Thanks. I didn't know that.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    48. Re:Not a problem by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      read up on the 10th amendement and you will see why you sound like an uneducated american (you know, the ones obama calls stupid)

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    49. Re: Not a problem by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      An excellent reason for getting rid of the death penalty. One of many. There should as few situations as possible where someone dies based on bureaucracy.

      However, in the sense that paperwork needs to be filed in time for anything, I'd have to point out that if you have a process, you have to draw a line somewhere. Even in life and death issues. The more allowances you make for people who don't follow a process properly, the more the people behind that person in line are forced backward.

      There's only so many resources, judicial or otherwise, to go around. If you waste the time of the court, or fail to do what you need to do, you're potentially hurting other people. I think we should end the death penalty, but there can't be special snowflakes in processes, or everyone pays the price.

    50. Re:Not a problem by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      What is needed is jobs and education. Sitting home all day doing nothing helps no one.

      You're assuming that all individuals have a level of potential productivity that exceeds the minimum wage. There is no rule that untrained labor must be able to create more value than the cost of their subsistence let alone the statutory minimum. In fact, it's easily possible that some people could create negative value, in that employing them would actually be more expensive than having them live off of transfer payments.

    51. Re:Not a problem by Cyberax · · Score: 2

      I know people involved in writing ACA. It was clearly understood that single-payer was out for Lieberman (who was in a pocket of insurance companies) and a handful of other DINOs. And since Republicans were stonewalling _anything_, single payer had to go.

    52. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We tried to fix the healthcare. We have Mitt Romney care and it sucks for everyone.

      It's working pretty well in Massachusetts..but that was from the Mitt-Romney-the-sane-and-moderate era when he was governor here. Don't confuse that with the Mitt-Romney-the-neocon-extremist that lost to Obama.

      I have doubts they were even the same person. Under Romney-the-Governor, we got same-sex marriage, marijuana decriminalization, and universal healthcare, cost-controls on the Big Dig, and tax reform. Then he decided to run for President and got lobotomized, tea-party style.

    53. Re:Not a problem by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      Honestly, I like working. It allows me to do interesting things and provides me motivation to get up in the morning and challenge myself.

      However, I don't mind if people don't work and still live comfortable lives. I look forward to doing so in my retirement, someday.

      Work don't make you a worthy person by itself. It's just a means of assigning scarce resources based on your role in producing those resources. If you weren't required to produce those products or services, that's not your fault.

      If, someday, we completely automated our production of just about everything, what would we do? Would we insist on continuing to try and have full employment in a world where that is completely inefficient?

      I'm not a big fan of socialism, because I think that state operation of production and resources is a bad idea for many reasons. It just changes who is telling you what to do. Even if it was fully democratic, the last thing I want is for people who are average, on average, to have the power over my health care and other things, where they feel that they have a say in my own choices.

      I firmly believe that people should have the right to make bad decisions. However, they need to accept the consequences of their decisions. If you're a smoker, you need to pay for your habit. You know it is bad for you, you do it anyway. You should have the right to smoke all day (as long as it isn't in public). Just don't expect to have your lung cancer treatments paid for.

      What I do NOT believe, however, is that it is wrong to support people who aren't employed. By itself, that's not an issue to me. I don't believe that work is what makes you a good person, deserving of resources.

      There are issues with supporting an idle population, of course. People get bored, there's unrest, there are existential crises. And of course, until we do have a post-scarcity economy, certain people are doing the work that keeps other people fed. These are issues that we need to consider, and we had better start considering, because structural unemployment is just code for "we have automated this stuff to the point that using people isn't necessary any more".

    54. Re:Not a problem by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      People _DO_ abuse the system, in fact show me a country with any form of welfare that is not abused. The problem in the US is that those abuses are on both ends of the spectrum.

      Actually, in my country at least the fraud from people getting undue welfare is thought to be low (far less than a billion) ; business owners not paying their fair share in the system is double or triple that (still fairly low relatively speaking). Undeclared and underdeclared labor don't contribute their share. Then there's the rather more political aspect of businesses getting contribution relieves (especially strong on the lower wages) which runs in the few tens of billions. Note that in that system the "contributions" are about proportional to wages and are a separate thing altogether from taxes.

      It feels useful that employers pay very few contribution on unskilled workers, but that is contested by economists. In the end most people end up with a rather low wage (let's say 1.2x to 1.5x the US federal min wage or more) and the work isn't that "unskilled" at all as both "qualifications" and experience are demanded.

    55. Re:Not a problem by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      A cynical interpretation would be that there has been more effort to sweep them to the side.
      There is quite a general housing shortage in France (or rather the rents have gone up, and forget about buying), there is also quite an underclass of people never working or occasionally working (picking fruits, etc.). The social safety net is strong so starvation is vanishingly low, people "only" suffer morally for the most part.

    56. Re:Not a problem by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      I guess you did not see that part about jobs and education.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    57. Re:Not a problem by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      I did actually, which is why I said "potential productivity" instead of "current productivity".

    58. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well, that's just, like, your opinion, man!

    59. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the president is in the process of fucking up by not learning from the mistakes made in MA

      He was trying to learn from their mistakes by trying to pass Single Payer Healthcare, but you assholes wouldn't go with that so we had to compromise------ON ROMNEYCARE. This is the EXACT opposite of what President Obama promised me would happen, and I am not happy!

      In regards to you two arguing: neither of your arguments are reasonable. wombat can't know what would have happened just as you cannot know that it was "coming irrespective".

      My insurance premiums dropped and my coverage increased by swapping into an approved BCBS of Alabama plan. I don't live in Alabama btw. I paid my $500 deductible earlier in the year and I have not paid a dime since. Not copays nor even the 15% portion I'm supposed to cover that my employer doesn't! Maybe you should shop around. My anecdote now negates your anecdote. Anecdotes are not data.

      Also, as a Democrat, I must take offense to something and today that something is your use of terminology to spin your argument. Even though you claim to detest MassHealth(Romneycare), you refuse to call it Romneycare but have no qualms calling the Affordable Healthcare Act Obamacare as that carries a negative connotation. In response, my posts contains the use of Romneycare as much as possible so that the other readers know a negative connotation also applies to the Republican "solution".

    60. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stop it with your "facts" and "reasoned logic". They have no place here! We are supposed to hate those money grubbing, lazy, two timin, Cadillac queen Takers who only pump out kids to get that extra $28 per week! And don't you go shitting on the Makers here. They provide...jobs or some shit...they stimulate the....ummm...WE HAVE TO HAVE THE SUBSIDIES BECAUSE WE PRODUCE DAMMIT!!
       
      /sarcasm

    61. Re: Not a problem by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      I've come to enjoy the Japanese system. It has a fundamental thread of responsibility that resonates with me and a strong sense of EVERYONE pays something

      You're talking about the country where people literally work themselves to death. Their healthcare system is fairly distinctive, though there are so many cultural differences in Japan I'm not sure how much of their health stems from their healthcare system and how much stems from everything else.

    62. Re:Not a problem by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 2

      He was trying to learn from their mistakes by trying to pass Single Payer Healthcare, but you assholes wouldn't go with that so we had to compromise------ON ROMNEYCARE.

      I'm sorry, but the Affordable Care Act was no compromise. A "compromise" is a meeting of the minds based on negotiation. The Affordable Care Act was forced down the GOP's and the American people's throats. Polls showed that the American people didn't want Obamacare at the time, and that we don't want it today. I predict that tomorrow, we still won't want it.

      Even though you claim to detest MassHealth(Romneycare), you refuse to call it Romneycare but have no qualms calling the Affordable Healthcare Act Obamacare as that carries a negative connotation.

      For what it's worth, I didn't intend that as a slight. MassHealth is just not as commonly called "Romneycare", so I don't refer to it as such. Indeed, when I google for "MassHealth", I get 456,000 results, but when I google for Romneycare, I get only 298,000 results. On the other hand, when I google "affordable care act" I get 23,400,000 results, but I get 38,000,000 results for "obamacare".

      So, based on my super serious and rigorous scientific research, "Obamacare" is more familiar than "Affordable Care Act" and "MassHealth" is more familiar than "Romneycare". That's why I used those. If it makes you feel any better, I'll just come right out and say that MassHealth was then-Governor Mitt Romney's policy.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    63. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People "managing" these services receive extra pay for not doing their job

      You mean, for not doing anything at all. Far too many useless parasites in our society offering no contribution whatever beyond the illusion that they are somehow necessary to the process of civilization. Open the soylent factories and feed the starving with them.

    64. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Part of the problem is that some cities put their homeless people on a bus to other cities with generous programs for homeless people. I don't know how many people are bused in like this, but it definitely increases the number of the most problematic homeless people (sick, severely mentally ill, etc) in cities like SF, because these will be the first people that the other cities will want to get rid of.

    65. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea republicans are responsible for it. All zero of them that voted for the 'compromise'...

    66. Re:Not a problem by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      I guess you did not see that part about jobs and education.

      There are people who are born with mental and physical disabilities such that it would be impossible to train them to perform any job whatsoever. There are also people who become this way later in life. Between them and yourself is a continuum where you'll find an example of somebody at virtually every possible level of performance (with or without training).

      Some of them simply won't be able to get a job. As automation replaces many menial tasks, we basically raise the bar steadily making more and more of the population unemployable. In the more distant future there is no reason to think that machines won't be able to outperform people in every possible way, and at that point everybody will be unemployed (they might do makework of some kind, but they wouldn't be doing economically efficient work).

      This is a good thing, actually, as long as you don't punish people who are unable to find work. We're a ways off from the point where we have 100% unemployment, but simply sending somebody to some classes isn't going to make them employable.

    67. Re:Not a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope! It is a RECOGNITION that they got the FULL IDEA for the game from VOICES IN THEIR HEADS/AROUND IN THE AIR. Just like the Civilization guys. And they are still informed!!! There was a big trace in university of THIS, except that now DORNBUSCH IS DEAD while he was being contacted ON IT in the 90s when best there was around was DOS 5 and LOTUS 123. Most people who __KNEW__ are now exterminated or in the process of being exterminated because the person they meant as Sid Meier did not recognize .myself.! Anyway... In any case I did start taking notes from my own thinking for a homeless-based game, but the notes were STOLEN. They may be reacting to that fact/news now so they included the issue in the game (as if voices in the head were ORDERS and they think all voices RELATE TO THEM). I call these situations *knots* in schizophrenia, but the signal is real and some people do have the key, but the hearers may be stubborn to the utmost extreme... DJB

    68. Re:Not a problem by s.petry · · Score: 1

      What I intended with Welfare is actually the mass of solutions that people are provided with when they "need" assistance. This used to be just "Welfare", "Food Stamps", and "Medicaid", but has turned into dozens of additional programs today.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    69. Re:Not a problem by reve_etrange · · Score: 1

      What I intended with Welfare is actually the mass of solutions that people are provided with when they "need" assistance.

      Why the scare quotes? Do you simply not believe that ~17 million Americans live with food insecurity and ~50 million have annual incomes under $12,000?

      This used to be just "Welfare", "Food Stamps", and "Medicaid"

      Unlike SNAP (food stamps) and Medicaid, "Welfare" is not and has never been the name of a US aid program. Indeed, contrary to the commonly understood meaning of the term, there are no unconditional cash transfer programs in the US. Since existing programs are highly conditional / restricted lumping them together and implying they consist in UCTs seems misleading at best.

      dozens of additional programs today

      192 programs IIRC.

      --
      .: Semper Absurda :.
    70. Re:Not a problem by s.petry · · Score: 1

      Quoting is not scary, you should brush up on your English language skills. Maybe even read a Wiki page to find out why quotes get used in writing. That you find them "scary" (your words, not mine) is telling.

      Untrue, there used to be a single program which provided housing funding, utility payments, and a small amount of cash each month. Food stamps and Medicaid used to be the other programs people signed up for.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  12. One sentence answer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    The homeless people are who lived in all the neighborhoods of players who no longer play the game due to being locked out by intrusive DRM.

  13. Which is stupider, the book or the game? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 4, Informative

    A limited run of 99 copies of How to get Rid of Homeless is available from Bittanti's Concrete Press via Amazon. Volume I is $150 and Volume II is $70.

    Like anyone's going to pay $220.00 for a collection of reddit posts ...

    They lost their way after SimCity 4 + Rush Hour. For aficionados of previous versions of the game, read the reviews first, it'll save you money. As for the "books", you can get the raw posts from reddit and the Simcity site.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    1. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only in America, greatest and most compassionate nation on the earth, can you find people greedy enough to take online Reddit posts discussing how to "eradicate homeless game characters, compile it into not one but two books, and sell the whole thing for 200+ dollars.

      One wonders if there were less greed and selfishness in the US, there would be less people eating from garbage cans and seeping in our sewers within our cities.

    2. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "eradicate", sleeping, and numerous grammatical mistakes. Poor prose, too. I'd rewrite the whole damned thing.

      ACs cannot edit, apparently.

    3. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by plover · · Score: 1

      Only in America, greatest and most compassionate nation on the earth, can you find people greedy enough to take online Reddit posts discussing how to "eradicate homeless game characters, compile it into not one but two books, and sell the whole thing for 200+ dollars.

      I think he may be trying to eradicate his own homelessness with those prices. Although with the prices for printing vanity books, he might not be making enough to pay the rent for two months.

      --
      John
    4. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, because some people choose that life and no amount of help will make a difference.

      Here in Dallas it was tried over 10 years ago... million of dollars were spent to refurbish several old hotels and make them liveable, rooms were offered free of charge to homeless people to give them a place to get back on their feet, to give them a place to have a hot shower, give them a mailing address so they could look for work (you might find it hard to get work without an address), etc.

      After 6 months, most of them were empty, the homeless didn't want them. Probably had something to do with a requirement that in return for a FREE PLACE TO LIVE, they had to actually look for work, or attend job training.

      I kid you not, a free place to live, a working bathroom with a toilet and shower, an address to use to get back on their feet and the homeless by and large didn't want it.

    5. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      After 6 months, most of them were empty, the homeless didn't want them. Probably had something to do with a requirement that in return for a FREE PLACE TO LIVE, they had to actually look for work, or attend job training.

      I kid you not, a free place to live, a working bathroom with a toilet and shower, an address to use to get back on their feet and the homeless by and large didn't want it.

      Given that a lot of homeless people have a mental illness and/or are addicted to drugs, that is not surprising.

    6. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't check from where I am, but odds are it's simply the price for some PoD service rather than his greed or attempt at a profit.

    7. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I am not sure of the difference between the two programmes, but what failed in Dallas 10 years ago seems to be working in Salt Lake City now: http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/lntv3q/the-homeless-homed

      Yeah, it is not the best source for news, but it is the only way I heard about it.

    8. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by duke_cheetah2003 · · Score: 2

      They lost their way after SimCity 4 + Rush Hour.

      This. SimCity 4 was in my mind the last SimCity game. The two games that followed it with that 'brand' on it (SimCity Societies and SimCity 2013) are not part of the series. They're just bad ripoffs.

    9. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      It fascinates me that he can even publish them without running into copyright issues.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    10. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by reve_etrange · · Score: 1

      Here in Dallas it was tried over 10 years ago... million of dollars were spent to refurbish several old hotels and make them liveable, rooms were offered free of charge to homeless people to give them a place to get back on their feet, to give them a place to have a hot shower, give them a mailing address so they could look for work (you might find it hard to get work without an address), etc.

      Can you provide a citation? I can't find any information at all about such a project.

      --
      .: Semper Absurda :.
    11. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by the+grace+of+R'hllor · · Score: 1

      Having been on unemployment here in the Netherlands, I can say this: Waiting for people who haven't been looking for work to look for work is not going to... uhm... work. If you want people to get work, you need to have a bridge between employers and the jobless. I am very employable, but despise searching for jobs.

      What worked for me was a newsletter from the unemployment agency to potential employers, listing candidates looking for work. The 'recruiters' knew my strengths and weaknesses, and could use that to advantage. Importantly, employers started calling me, instead of the other way around. Had a few meet-ups, still got turned down by a few, turned one down myself, and accepted another. So now I'm gainfully employed and posting on Slashdot.

      Mind you, I wasn't even remotely in danger of being homeless, especially with the Netherlands' good unemployment system, and when that runs out welfare. If I were homeless, I'd not be employable, which would make forcing me to look for a job fruitless.

    12. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The who post is about this guy and his book. So, "Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug Or a Feature?", how the fuck could i know, it doesn't say anything about it.

    13. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The who post" should be "The whole post"

    14. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All the information on the project was published in a basement toilet with no ladder and a sign reading 'Beware of the Tiger', and nobody knew about it?

    15. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      That in large part is probably due to the Mormon culture in Utah.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    16. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      Is he the same guy that created that How to Avoid Huge Ships book? (Wow, it is only a $57 paperback now, it was several hundred when it became a meme.)

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    17. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by Whorhay · · Score: 2

      It probably has a lot to do with the demographic makeup of the homeless changing in the last decade, especially with the housing and mortgage collapse. I don't think the homeless has ever been one homogenous group, but it is more diverse now than it was 10 years ago. And I would suspect that there is now a large portion of the homeless that don't have mental issues and want to get back into a home of some kind.

      The location also makes a difference. SLC is a bad place to try and live outside full time during the winter. SLC has also for years now had a lot of homeless young people, kids and young adults that are LGBT. The Mormon culture isn't the most hospitable for LGBT's and so they've had a systemic problem for awhile dealing with runaways and people that have effectively been disowned by their families living on the streets.

    18. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      It fascinates me that he can even publish them without running into copyright issues.

      He can't. Here is the relevant portion of Simtropolis TOS:

      By making services available to you, the site editor is not providing you with any implied or express licenses or rights, and you will have no rights to make any commercial use of this web site or provided services without the site editor's prior written consent.

      Worse, he's not even providing attribution to the individual comment authors.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    19. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Texas, people receiving social benefits are universally reviled scum of the earth. Accepting one of those hotel rooms is an admission that they are broken and cannot stand on their own two feet.

      Maybe they are just too proud to accept handouts and would rather be homeless under their own power than housed through the charity of others?

      Also, forcing homeless people to look for work when they are mentally ill or don't have skills is essentially forcing them to subject themselves to the indignity of service sector wage slavery. Some people are two proud to prostitute themselves to petty tyrants fiefdoms for $8/hr. I've seen homeless people with advanced degrees that would rather disengage from society than participate in the job market, not because of laziness, but from a philosophical objection from participating in activities they consider to be so distasteful.

      I'm not homeless, but I can sympathize with their position. I love working, but I hate the job market. The workplace politics are disgusting and I hate people.

    20. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The difference is significant. SLC is paying rent for apartments - not refurbishing a giant hotel. The apartments shown in the DS clip are 2 story buildings. A giant building creates and reinforces a culture of poverty. SLC is paying rent regardless of work for chronic homeless because it was cheaper than all the unpaid emergency services. Dallas was kicking people out - and surprise, the chronically homeless aren't highly skilled enough to have more than some percent get permanent jobs right away. The DS clip has an incisive quote on this, from a formerly chronic homeless man, "no one wants to be poor". This belief that GP has about people who "don't want it" is garbage. If this were true you would find that some homeless people actually had a large trust fund, but the homeless lifestyle is just too appealing.

    21. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      You have to be kidding me...

      If I want people to get off their fat lazy butts and look for work, I have to do all the work for them?

      Really? You said that with a straight face?

    22. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      No, I haven't found much either, given the age and the poor online archives of the remaining local paper (we lost our other paper back then as well)

      Searching for it now returns lots of current results however, including stuff build by charity's, one of which is providing a whole 50 units at a cost of $2.5 million taxpayer dollars (yea, really), to homeless people.

    23. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this being in Texas, i bet all the properties belong to a fat politician. all were extremely isolated from major cities and the only reasonable work you could expect for someone living there was ranch work or something.

      nothing is as clear cut as you want to believe.

    24. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SLC has also for years now had a lot of homeless young people, kids and young adults that are LGBT. The Mormon culture isn't the most hospitable for LGBT's and so they've had a systemic problem for awhile dealing with runaways and people that have effectively been disowned by their families living on the streets.

      Aha, context. I was wondering what that quip about converting the homeless from mormon to gay or vice versa was about, other than being obtuse that is.

    25. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by sudon't · · Score: 1

      Actually, it is one of the better sources of news.

      --
      -- sudon't

      Air-ride Equipped

    26. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While true, being a news source is not the primary function of The Daily Show. For what they do cover, like in the linked video above, they have stated multiple times that they try to not have any errors, not misrepresent anything, and have people genuinely respond to questions using their own words. It is not difficult to believe that either, since if even one thing wrong or someone feels they were misrepresented on the show, it ends up addressed on the show like in this piece: http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/xn508x/a-single-factual-error

    27. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "eradicate", sleeping, and numerous grammatical mistakes.

      Not a complete sentence!

      Poor prose, too.

      That sentence no verb!

      I'd rewrite the whole damned thing.

      Don't get too ambitious. Try for just one good sentence.

    28. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      But are they as bad as RollerCoaster Tycoon 4?

    29. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by airdweller · · Score: 1

      "You have to be kidding me...
      If I want people to get off their fat lazy butts and look for work, I have to do all the work for them?
      Really? You said that with a straight face?"

      Firstly, is it really that hard to realize that some people may have disabilities (physical, mental, etc.) that may hinder their attempts to look for work, etc. and they need help? Let me guess... Republican?

      Secondly, you have to work on finding an employee who meets your requirements too. If you just sit and wait for them to come to you, guess whose ass is lazy?

    30. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      I am all for helping those who have disabilities. My sister is 41 years old and lives in a state school for those who cannot care for themselves, rest assured I'm a supporter of helping those who need it.

      If you don't want to go look for a job because you don't like looking for a job (which is what I heard you say), then I have no sympathy for you.

      I'm happy to help people who "need" it. Not people who "want" it.

    31. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Using your oft repeated Libertardian quips, those homes were NOT free! You even put "in return for" right in the statement. How about you go ahead and actually give them some FREE homes? You can't do that though can you? Charity is only good when in regards to your church and jesus. Real people who may need charity can go die in the streets!

    32. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      Given that a lot of homeless people have a mental illness and/or are addicted to drugs, that is not surprising.

      You might be right, I don't know...

      I would agree that the mental healthcare system and the drug addition treatment programs are HORRIBLE in the US.

      If we spent half as much on treatment as we do on prisons for pot smokers, we probably could solve this problem...

    33. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by cfsops · · Score: 1

      Probably had something to do with a requirement that in return for a FREE PLACE TO LIVE, they had to actually look for work, or attend job training.

      Right. And that's a problem. Try providing something for less fortunate people without strings. You know, providing for the sake of providing, because it's the RightThing(tm) to do, rather than as an effort to force your will on powerless people. What no one wants is the leash around their neck.

    34. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by cfsops · · Score: 1

      And not just that; there are many things about homelessness that hinder efforts to find work. In the end, there has to be some level of empathy for people. Without it there's little hope for the understanding that leads to proper solutions.

    35. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by reve_etrange · · Score: 1

      50 units at a cost of $2.5 million taxpayer dollars

      How much do you think a large building should cost per unit?

      --
      .: Semper Absurda :.
    36. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by sudon't · · Score: 1

      Right, most news outlets bury corrections.

      You are right that news is not their "primary" function, but the fact that a comedy program does a better job of covering the news than do most cable news outlets really says something, doesn't it? I decided to have a look at that poll they do each year, where they show how informed people are, based on their news source. I wondered if the Daily Show was included. Turns out Daily Show viewers are second only to NPR listeners. I suspect it's for the same reason - both do in-depth coverage of issues. It is unfortunate that, while their listeners are first and second most informed, they are last and second-to-last in numbers.

      Read it and weep:

      http://publicmind.fdu.edu/2012...

      --
      -- sudon't

      Air-ride Equipped

    37. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for the link. I actually had heard about that before, but it was from an unreliable source in passing, so I kind of dismissed it without too much thought. To see that it is true is fairly gross.

    38. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      While I understand the thought behind that...

      The problem you run into is that you end up with people saying, "well if I don't have to work and I get a free place to live... then why should I work?"

      Answer this question... When do you stop providing stuff to less fortunate people? Ever? Do you just hand stuff out to anyone who asks? Maybe I want a free place to live...

      Limited resources, unlimited demand for free stuff... It only ends one way...

    39. Re:Which is stupider, the book or the game? by the+grace+of+R'hllor · · Score: 1

      That depends on your point of view. From the point of view of the unemployment administration, yes. The program works.

      From my point of view, it was pleasant as well. I was looking, but not very aggressively. Partly because my previous salary was good enough that I could get by on 70% of it (standard unemployment in the Netherlands). I'd had plenty of rejections without even a meet-up. Being approached by multiple employers meant I had choice, more confidence, and eventually a great job.

  14. How to "solve" the problem of the homeless? by Trogre · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Clearly your city needs a better welfare and education system, and perhaps a work incentive scheme.

    --
    "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
  15. Does anyone care about SimCity2013? by Verdatum · · Score: 1

    I was under the impression that no one plays this game. The cities are so tiny that the game gets boring after about 2 hours of playtime. Support for the game has ended. And everyone went back to playing the previous Sim City game, or Cities XL.

    1. Re:Does anyone care about SimCity2013? by Sowelu · · Score: 5, Informative

      Are...are you kidding? Cities XL is barely a game. It has some really nice features that were innovative for its time, like free-drawing roads, but a lot of its implementations are complete and utter BS. Like, you have to zone regions based on social class. Part of the challenge of SimCity is that you can't directly control that. Natural resources are garbage... the supply/demand graphs of different zones have hardly any bounce or buffer zone and your citizens move in with no intelligence at all. If you build twice as much unskilled-labor residential than you need--probably because you're trying to plan your city out early--people will SWARM in, and then whine about how there's not enough jobs. Even the very first SimCity game made people only move in if there were jobs (+/- a fudge factor). This is a really huge problem because you have to micromanage your zoning and build it a little bit at a time, rotating through all different kinds. You can't prebuild or everyone goes ballistic. Oh yeah, and road widths. God damn it, road widths. Hey great, I can upgrade this three-lane to a four-lane!...if I bulldoze everything along it, because the game cares about road width down to the foot, and you aren't allowed to build small roads with extra buffer on the side for future expansion. Dump tons of money now to build the nice roads, or you're hosed later.

      All of this leads to extremely formulaic gameplay. There's not much variation in what works, and it feels tedious to do. I spent a lot of hours trying to find the fun, on a couple different versions, and it wasn't there. Went back to SC4.

    2. Re:Does anyone care about SimCity2013? by houghi · · Score: 1

      I don't play the game, but what you describe is pretty much what happens in the real world. Especially the road part.

      Might make a lousy game, but it looks like a pretty good City Simulation to me from what you describe.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    3. Re:Does anyone care about SimCity2013? by dj245 · · Score: 1

      I don't play the game, but what you describe is pretty much what happens in the real world. Especially the road part.

      Might make a lousy game, but it looks like a pretty good City Simulation to me from what you describe.

      But Real World City Planner isn't a fun game. It's a job with stacks of paperwork and dealing with lawyers, accountants, etc. People want to play Authoritarian City Planner.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
  16. Re:Bennet Hasleton by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 0

    Is 'Slashdot' Bennet Haselton a Bug Or a Feature?

    "You've got a bug in my feature!"
    "You've got a feature in my bug!"
    "I have an idea ... It's our featured bug!"

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  17. easy solution by acroyear · · Score: 1

    go back to simcity version 1 or 2. homelessness wasn't a problem 22 years ago, right?

    --
    "But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
    -- Joe
    1. Re:easy solution by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We used to forcibly institutionalize mentally ill people instead of kicking them out on the street en mass to fend for themselves. A significant portion of what we call "homeless" have mental health and substance abuse issues, of course. Is releasing them to life in the streets more compassionate or humanitarian than confining them to an institution where they can actually get some help? I'm not sure there's an easy answer there, to be honest. In my neck of the woods, people are getting robbed and assaulted on the streets by homeless people on a pretty regular basis. It's not a good situation for anyone.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    2. Re:easy solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No shit. The government here released all the mentally ill people to 'avoid trampling their human rights". They get social benefits and are on their own. Now all the drug dealers and con artists are having a field day on them.

    3. Re:easy solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Welcome to Reagan's America.

    4. Re:easy solution by houghi · · Score: 1

      You do not know what is better: Trowing people on the street or helping them? I think I found where the problem is.
      These people are unable to fend for themselves.

      There obviously is a difference between helping people and locking them up.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    5. Re:easy solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You do not know what is better: Trowing people on the street or helping them? I think I found where the problem is.

      You do not know which is better: Incarcerating them or granting them freedom of choice? I think I found where the problem is.

      Incendiary comments can be made on both sides of most arguments. They don't advance the narative or lead to a resolution of the problem. They polarize the idiots and create 'political parties'. On a further note: Forcing someone to accept your "help" isn't done for their good. You're doing it for yourself at that point.

    6. Re:easy solution by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      if my choice is between being homeless on the street, but free Or my choice is being ina padded room, im going to be free.

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    7. Re:easy solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's way more complicated than you make it out to be, because not 100% of people who are taken out of institutions become homeless people. Some of the people being "helped" were really put it a shitty situation.

      I have no data on how many people became dangerous street people and how many improved on release.

    8. Re:easy solution by LMariachi · · Score: 1

      And obviously if your choice is between imagining false dichotomies and acknowledging that adequately funded mental health care is not "padded rooms," you go with the former.

    9. Re:easy solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but the mentally ill, frail and handicapped are regularly robbed and assaulted in government or private institutions as well. Take off your rose coloured glasses.

  18. It's a feature -- duh. by SeaFox · · Score: 3

    Are we now going to say it's incorrect for a city simulator to present the player with problems that currently occur in actual real cities?

    1. Re:It's a feature -- duh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the story here is that average people think that good solutions to this problem involve bulldozing others, or otherwise killing them off somehow. The same sort of thinking that tin-pot dictators have. Scary to think there's that many people out there with that mindset.

      Yeah, I know it's just a video game, but the fact that so many people just seem to care-freely resort to these types of solutions right away is a bit.. concerning, to say the least.

      I see this in all kinds of online forums too, including slashdot. As soon as there's any group of people that bothers another, there's no "talking things over", or looking for solutions that work for both parties. It's an immediate jump to accusations, name-calling, and appalling amounts of ill-conceived overreacting. People are caring less and less about others. It's the degradation of society, and it's picking up speed.

    2. Re:It's a feature -- duh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, to put the same another way, the problem is that the game included mechanics that presented the problem of homelessness, but it didn't include mechanics that would restrict solutions to that problem to ones that most real citizens would find acceptable. If the simulated citizens began demonstrating in the streets when their homeless brethren died en masse, it might force the demiurge User to consider solutions other than calling down tornadoes upon the homeless.

    3. Re:It's a feature -- duh. by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      well the game shouldn't have needed to restrict them to acceptable solutions.

      but the problem is it seems the game mostly doesn't have acceptable solutions.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    4. Re:It's a feature -- duh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, modern planned cities (not the old organically grown ones) are designed in such a way as to have lots of greenery and other free space between roads and buildings, exactly to anticipate the time when those roads need to be expanded. So yes, the option to reserve space around a road from the start is quite realistic.

  19. Have they tried... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Jumping the homeless?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=44s81sZPFOA

  20. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  21. Re:Games versus reality by Livius · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As long as there are people starving and going mad in the streets

    Mental health problems are far more likely to be the cause of homelessness than the reverse.

    And I encounter someone who is mentally ill on the street, I'm not sure what you think I could do for them that the social workers and the police couldn't.

  22. Re:Games versus reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Really, you mean they are not just lazy freeloaders? I can't believe the republicans steered us wrong!

  23. Re:Games versus reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Note to self: Avoid Santa Monica. Non-zero probability of encountering strange person trying to make an obscure point while disguised as a homeless person.

  24. Re:Games versus reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't really understand how it has gotten so bad, I live In NZ we have a few homeless, I used to work in the center of our major city night shift, and I got to meet quite a few of them in a city of 2 Million (at the time) we had less than 50 homeless, I don't see any at all now I live In dunedin (a small city) How could the most powerful, influential, wealthiest country in the world have tens of thousands of homeless citizens plaguing its streets?

  25. not just a game by cas2000 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    the thing that most players don't realise about games like simcity (and other "simulation" games including civilisation and clones, the sims, and many others) is that they're not just simulations, they're also propaganda tools with a particular model of how reality is, or should, be.

    for the most part, these games push the theology of "meritocratic" free market laissez-faire capitalism - with the deserving rich being those who worked hard and the undeserving poor being worthless lazy slobs. this simulates american moralising and judgemental opinions fairly well, but not the real world.

    1. Re:not just a game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do know that games like Simcity make it literally impossible (without cheating or modding) to achieve fundamental goals like "0% unemployment" right?

    2. Re:not just a game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Simcity is a propaganda tool?
      That's a neat conspiracy theory.

    3. Re:not just a game by cas2000 · · Score: 1

      it doesn't have to be conscious and deliberate to be propaganda. simcity definitely pushes specific beliefs about how cities work and people behave. to play the game, you have to internalise those beliefs, at least for as long as you're playing.

  26. SimCity 4... by x_t0ken_407 · · Score: 1

    ...was the last actual SimCity. Every subsequent game with that name was a dumbed-down fucking shell, a goddamn disgrace. Had high hopes for this latest iteration before all the BS came to light. SMH.

    Hell I still play SC4 now when I get bored. Have an awesome realistic region of 4+ million or so, based on a map made from the Oxnard, CA area (scaled way up). Bah...but enough waxing nostalgic. Fuck fucking EA and what they did to Maxis, smfh.

    1. Re:SimCity 4... by duke_cheetah2003 · · Score: 1

      I'm with ya there! I was glad the rollout of the new 'wanna-be-SimCity' was a flop cuz I managed to get a refund for it. Terrible game. Wouldn't even pirate it. SC4 was the last true SimCity.

  27. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  28. Re:Games versus reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Greed.

  29. Re:Games versus reality by LordLucless · · Score: 0

    Most aren't, but sounds like the OP is.

    --
    Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
  30. Re:Games versus reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There was a time when people without the mental capacity to provide for themselves would simply die. Later, these people were thrown in jail. Then we decided this was not humane, and we confined them all to a hellish existence in insane asylums. Then we decided this was no longer humane, and we tore the asylums down, condemning them to a hellish existence on the street living off infrastructure, the public safety net, and the few services we provide to those who are not simply in need of a way out of a bad economic situation.

    I'm curious as to what your solution is, as warehousing these people the way we do with the elderly seems no better, and impractical as these are not people who are approaching their expiration date.

  31. Fisher-Price by tepples · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    I think the PC name for that game is Little People's Fortress.

    Only if it's made by Fisher-Price.

  32. Treat the mental condition by tepples · · Score: 2

    Given that a lot of homeless people have a mental illness and/or are addicted to drugs, that is not surprising.

    Then perhaps the package should have included health care, such as a psychiatric evaluation and warm turkey treatment (first dose 1 minute later each day) for any chemical dependence.

    1. Re:Treat the mental condition by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    2. Re:Treat the mental condition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But if you hold his head underwater, either his stomach or his lungs will fill up.

      Anon... cuz Karma

  33. Welcome to Earth, third realm from the Sun by tepples · · Score: 1

    Note to self: Avoid Santa Monica. Non-zero probability of encountering strange person trying to make an obscure point while disguised as a homeless person.

    For that matter, avoid Earth in general.

    1. Re:Welcome to Earth, third realm from the Sun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For that matter, avoid Earth in general.

      Why? It's mostly harmless...

  34. Re:Games versus reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I think you are missing the point. The vast majority of homeless have mental health issues, and that is why they are homeless. There is nothing that we can do to help them that the social workers cannot. The fact that you are using homelessness as a protest against capitalism is a bit wierd. Why not just move to another country you might be more happy with?

  35. You blogged as a doper and thief in Oct/Nov 2014? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    "Personally, I just don't care to contribute to a system/country that I find vomit-inducing and am pretty comfortable sleeping under a bridge."

    Yeah, so I read your blog - you were arrested for holding burglary tools and appearing to be high and when you got out the first thing you did was score some weed, got high, then at some point got some schrooms, got high, then complained about the homeless life, etc. You sir, are in my opinion, a bullshit artist and your homeless has nothing to do with solidarity; I believe it has everything to do with you being in need of some serious mental help. Of course, I'm pretty sure you won't see it that way. Please, get yourself some help, you don't have to live with substance abuse issues and you don't appear to need to be a burglar to make a living if you actually are a programmer. Good luck, man.

  36. Re:Games versus reality by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    I know my sig says "hire me", but I have had offers in real-life and turned them down because I didn't agree with the what/how the employer produced.

    The guy above suggested forced-hospitalization of mentally-ill people as a way to help them. If he gets his way, you could be 'hospitalized' with that attitude.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  37. Re:Games versus reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In case you didn't get it from the other posts above, the single largest factor in current homeless levels in the US seems to be the accumulated damage from changes in mental health policy in the past generation or two. Do you have mental hospitals and asylums in NZ? Do you have figures on what percentage of the population suffers from psychological disorders requiring intervention? In the US, many of those people are out on the streets or in prison for drug offenses rather than in a care providing facility. What might have been a temporary crisis can instead become a one-way trip to chronic dysfunction.

    I suppose the reason for the policy failure is the same reason we are struggling with health care in general. There is something broken in the American psyche when it comes to community and compassion. I am sure I am over simplifying things, but the cultural emphasis on individualism and the prevalence of the post-WW2, small, "nuclear family" seems to have weakened social ties and our ability to identify with and reach out to one another. There is so little exposure and experience with care-giving that people recoil in confusion when faced with someone who is not self-sufficient.

  38. Like Real Life by JimSadler · · Score: 2

    The real answer is to make certain that all people have good quality housing without regard for their ability to pay. More than ever human labor is being replaced and devalued. Work related education is not an answer when jobs do not exist. And for those than can do the math it is cheaper to buy a poor person a home and keep it up for him than to slap him in jail or prison. It is an issue similar to medical care. It is far cheaper to simply give a poor person a whiz bang medical policy for free than to pay his bills when he is sick and at the emergency room door. But if we compromise and give the poor inadequate insurance coverage they will still end up at the emergency room. Oddly the way to save money can be to spend money more freely.

    1. Re:Like Real Life by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      also when the jail / prison does cover more stuff then the ER at a much higher cost. Also some people use the jail / prison as there home as well.

  39. Boulder, Colorado by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If natural disasters dealt with the homeless, Boulder, Colorado, would have a lot less.

  40. Re:Games versus reality by Livius · · Score: 1

    There are places where welfare is less generous than others, but where I live homelessness is a lifestyle choice, the way it is for yourself. Now, it's not reasonable to expect the mentally ill to take responsibility for making the best choices for themselves, but again, there's nothing I can do that the professionals can't.

  41. Feature not Bug by medv4380 · · Score: 2

    The bugs, and people glossing over the basic info on homeless made them much more of a problem. Homeless only really became a problem with going up to the largest cities. Traffic would snarl resulting in people not getting enough work resulting in homeless. Homeless would build up in that scenario until traffic got under control. Getting rid of homeless was only an issue if you recklessly upgraded everything. Homeless need a level 1 business that needs workers to get out of becoming homeless. If you have too many people and not enough jobs these jobs will be filled by people with homes. I've yet to see a scenario where I changed the economy to level 1 businesses with a surplus of jobs that didn't slowly remove the homeless without going all Machiavellian. Though Machiavellian is a much faster route.

  42. Re:Games versus reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Personally, I like to just sit in affluent areas looking poor and reaching into trash cans in front of rich people and not asking them for stuff or being rude. And when I have to communicate with them, I like to surprise them with a modicum of well measured speech, generally changing the perception of what it means to be 'poor' in the modern world.

    So you're deliberately giving different projection to the experiences that the rich person would experience.

    But you know, just because you're 'nice' perhaps, it doesn't make the rest of the homeless 'nice'.

    If you follow your line of thinking backwards, you really should be hanging out with the homeless folks, trying to get them to be more of a well-spoken homeless hipster like yourself. Raise the perception of the homeless by educating -them-.

  43. SimCity has gone Hyper-realistic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Sim City is a utopian planner/dictator simulator already (one person, the human player, dictates to the society) .... so now it produces the natural results of central planning (a large homeless discouraged population in an artificially-crippled economy where the "invisible hand" of the free economy can NEVER solve the problem) and induces the player (the central planner/dictator) to dream of ways of killing them off (or neglecting them to death) for the benefit of his/her whim, preferences of societal "cleanliness", organization, etc? The central planner wants his city to look fantastic, and to hell with all the inconvenient people! Ha! that's quite possibly the best simulation ever written! Very meta.

    The solution is also a hyper-realistic one. Copy the example of our current President; double the budget for food stamps, promise them free phones and free junior college and free healthcare to keep them from getting too squirrly.... and then pretend they simply do not exist so you can cite new updated low unemployment numbers (leaving out the millions of unemployed you choose to pretend have been killed by Godzilla) while you push very hard to import another huge population to do all the work those people already in the sim wont't do.

    1. Re:SimCity has gone Hyper-realistic? by reve_etrange · · Score: 0

      I guess you dropped out before they covered "automatic stabilizers" in high school civics.

      --
      .: Semper Absurda :.
    2. Re:SimCity has gone Hyper-realistic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They don't have high school civics in Buggeraria or Tschekopolakia or wherever it is he comes from.

      (He's roman_mir, for those who couldn't work it out).

  44. Re:Games versus reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, if I walk around naked or dive under water (preferably both) then I'm okay?

    The solution is simple: you have to want to live in a world that's worth living in. So many people really don't.

  45. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 0

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  46. Re:Games versus reality by codepigeon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I know my sig says "hire me", but I have had offers in real-life and turned them down because I didn't agree with the what/how the employer produced.

    I took a two minute glance at your blog. I read your comment here and a little bit of your other writings. You sound like you have a decent level of intelligence. I am gonna go out on a limb and assume that you are young (20 - 30). At some point in your life you are going to realize your wasted potential. When that moment of clarity hits you,... it is going to hit you like a stone to the head.

    Part of 'being a man' is doing the work you don't want to do. It is the daily struggle so you can provide for a family; not living under a bridge so your values can remain intact. We are all idealistic at some point in our lives, but, there comes a time to grow up. Don't wait until it is too late.

    my $.02

  47. eh, close enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Men wear something almost just like a burka without the hood.
      Instead they get a fancy headband with it's own cloak.

  48. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  49. Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    buy the all 1 way tickets to another city (far away).

  50. Re:Games versus reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    For fuck's sake man, pick a class and get a job. Fighter mage thief multi? No wonder you're homeless.

  51. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  52. Re:Games versus reality by eriks · · Score: 0

    Much of the time when I see a homeless person, I think "There but for the grace of God, go I." -- I can imagine any number of poor choices I could have made earlier in life, or perhaps even just bad luck, that could have led me to a similar situation. It's seldom that I am able to "help" such an individual, though I try make a point of acknowledging them as a fellow human, like I would do with any other person, with a nod, or a smile. Interesting twist of irony: smiling at most homeless people will get you a "Hi" or a smile back, whereas nodding or smiling at random people on the street will often (but not always) get you a glare and a wide berth, I guess some would say that's as it should be.

    There's really only a thin veneer separating the homeless from about half of the US population. In fact, I'm sure that there are a lot of people that while having a place to live, are actually worse off than some who are homeless, wintertime in northern climates wholly excepted of course.

    So anyway, basically, I agree with you, and what you're doing, though lack the temperament to employ your methods myself -- though I do strive to "consume" as little as possible, just on principle. I've been called "unamerican" (whatever that means, can you be "uncanadian" or "unswedish") for this philosophy, though not by many fellow "yankees" here in rural New England, some of whom still practice the art of frugality for it's own sake.

    Americans, on the whole, however, are too willing to say "Those people are just lazy." or "Those people are mentally ill." And while I'm sure those descriptions fit, for some percentage of humans (not just the homeless) more often than not, it seems to me that those two statements are essentially regurgitation of propaganda; platitudes to make us feel less ashamed that we live in a society with so little regard for our brothers and sisters, especially in a supposedly "christian nation", that we allow some of them to languish in the streets, to the detriment of the communities they inhabit, out of some bizarre philosophy that to "give handouts" to them would somehow harm our society. It really is the most twisted logic: damage the culture in order to save it.

    Salt Lake City has a program where they're simply providing housing for their homeless population. So far, it's a resounding success, though I'm sure the program isn't perfect (what is?). The city is actually *saving money* since the load on social workers, emergency services and law enforcement is lower. San Fransisco has a similar program, but it hasn't worked as well there, probably for a whole host of reasons.

    It seems to me that homelessness is just the tip of the iceberg of America's social ills, a glaring symptom of a root cause that very few are willing to face: monstrous greed produced by a highly-infectious "mental illness", the carriers of which are "neo-liberal" economists and policy makers, convincing us that all we have to do is keep buying shit and working at our jobs that we hate and All Will Be Well, while most of the the imaginary wealth is transferred to a ever smaller sector of the population, as it has done for the better part of a century. It seems they've even deluded themselves into thinking that this can continue indefinitely, by hand-waving away the mathematical absurdities that result if one actually looks at the reality.

    I'm not surprised that SimCity has a "virtual homelessness" problem, since the simulation models are probably as absurd as the models used in the real world -- though it has an excuse, it's just supposed to be a fun game, where the outcome doesn't cause real suffering and death for those on the losing side.

  53. Re:Games versus reality by dbIII · · Score: 1

    Wow - somebody modded up a post asking why the poor don't just splash out on travel expenses.

  54. Re:Games versus reality by reve_etrange · · Score: 1

    And I encounter someone who is mentally ill on the street, I'm not sure what you think I could do for them that the social workers and the police couldn't.

    It's hard not to take this as a troll. The police are not generally inclined to help homeless people - although I see police harassing them almost every day. Social workers for the most part would help the homeless - but they're underpaid, understaffed and institutionally handicapped. Maybe you don't live in the United States?

    I personally don't expect you to personally spend time / effort / money helping an individual homeless person in some way, but if you're unhappy with how local, state and federal governments are handling the problem at large, then the same recourse exists as for any other social problem.

    --
    .: Semper Absurda :.
  55. Re:Games versus reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Much of the time when I see a homeless person, I think "There but for the grace of God, go I."

    One of the main things I want in life is for my descendants not to suffer too much. Now, in retrospect the best way for me to guarantee that my descendants wouldn't suffer too much would have been not to have any. Unfortunately, that train has already left the station. So now, when I see extreme poverty, I think "There but for the grace of God, go my descendants." The thing is, short of taking big risks and doing things that most people would consider to be wildly unethical, there's no way I'm going to be rich enough to give my descendants enough inheritance to guarantee that they will avoid poverty.

    On the other hand, there are countries (not the USA unfortunately) where essentially no one is living in desperate poverty. It's not that almost everyone is sitting around doing nothing collecting welfare while a few people do all the work. Instead, almost everyone has access to good jobs that pay at least enough to live simply but comfortably. And that's what I want for my descendants - that they can feel secure in the knowledge that they will be able to live simply but comfortably as long as they're willing to do an honest days work.

    It would be great if the USA could get it's act together and become one of those countries - because it happens to be where I have citizenship. But, failing that, the best thing I could do for my descendants would be to find a way to move them to a country without desperate poverty and that's likely to stay that way for a long time.

  56. Re:Games versus reality by BitZtream · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I write this while homeless in Santa Monica, CA

    Yet, you can somehow manage to post on slashdot.

    Your priorities are puzzling to say the least.

    --
    Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  57. Headline clarification by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

    Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug Or a Feature?

    Homelessness is obviously a feature. It's the level of homelessness and the impact it has on gameplay that is being questioned in the article.

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  58. Re:Games versus reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Doing what you don't want to do is the very definition of wasting rather than realising your potential.

  59. How is that different from ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dwarf Fortress where babies are considered a plague for many forts ...

  60. Re:Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

    Efficiency and progress are ours once more; now that we have the neutron bomb.

  61. The majority of homeless are mentally ill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apart from a minority of people with bad luck and little job skills, most homeless are chronically mentally ill. They were thrown out on the street or ended up in jail (40%) when Reagan "downsized" the mental hospitals. When there is a cure for schizophrenia and other incurable mental illnesses, the "homeless" problem will go away.

  62. Troubling phrase used in the sarahnaomi article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you sure you should have used the phrase final solutions in a story of removing the homeless?

    It echoes statements used in 1940's Germany.

  63. Re:Games versus reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know my sig says "hire me", but I have had offers in real-life and turned them down because I didn't agree with the what/how the employer produced.

    I took a two minute glance at your blog. I read your comment here and a little bit of your other writings. You sound like you have a decent level of intelligence. I am gonna go out on a limb and assume that you are young (20 - 30). At some point in your life you are going to realize your wasted potential. When that moment of clarity hits you,... it is going to hit you like a stone to the head.

    Part of 'being a man' is doing the work you don't want to do. It is the daily struggle so you can provide for a family; not living under a bridge so your values can remain intact. We are all idealistic at some point in our lives, but, there comes a time to grow up. Don't wait until it is too late.

    my $.02

    I disagree completely.

    I have worked since I was 17 in two countries, and lived a pretty comfortable life by most people's standards.

    Recently I bought a brand new 2 bedroom flat in zone 2 of London, and earn enough in the first 5 days of each month to cover the mortgage. I have an attractive, loving partner, a lot of spare cash, three passports, play in bands, am physically fit, and work for a well respected company.

    I am also bored as shit, and wake up every morning dreading the day ahead.

    Living under a bridge sounds pretty good to me. Not all of us get a hard on for buying things. I think it's an American thing.

  64. Re:Games versus reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hanging out in a library reading and posting on Slashdot is probably a hell of a lot more fun than sitting on a park bench in the rain.

  65. Re:Games versus reality by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

    "while they step over the clinging-desperately-to-life 'problem' all around them."

    The *most* pathetic looking and in-your-face are conmen and criminals. Giving money is a transaction where they sell you a show where you can feel like you've done something good. In reality, you've just encouraged a beggar who fought for that premium corner.

    Many of the people with real problems are quieter, and some of them don't even live on the streets. But hey, entitlement comes with believing that being on the street gives you some kind of credibility.

    Mental illness is the real problem, and for those who can't fit into the mold of alcoholism, drug abuse, depression or schizophrenia, defiantly homeless should be considered a mental illness. It's certainly not making you or the people around you happy.

    Few countries are equipped to deal with mental illness, so people live hard and die on the streets, and that's horrible.

  66. Re:Games versus reality by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 2

    "Don't let businesses run homeless people off who are trying to get out of the cold"

    Damn right. Screw those bourguois minimum wage kids trying to make it through school cleaning vomit and filth out of bathrooms by people who view the coffee shop where they warmed up as the enemy!

    Can't reason with crazy.

  67. Re:Games versus reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Homeless bloggers, even more dangerous.

    I don't have much sympathy for a homeless person that turns down a job because they don't agree with the company. Literally, beggars can't be choosers.

  68. Re:You blogged as a doper and thief in Oct/Nov 201 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Based on your first sentence, I don't believe for a god damned second that you are for real. I did not read the rest of your post.

    Troll more carefully, bro.

  69. Re:You blogged as a doper and thief in Oct/Nov 201 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Just because you are in a jam and feel it's ok to steal something to survive, it doesn't mean you don't owe something in return to work off that debt. If you steal food from me because you are starving, fine, but you better help me replace that food. Don't expect to take out of need without ever feeling like you owe a debt.

  70. Re:Games versus reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I write this while homeless in Santa Monica, CA

    Yet, you can somehow manage to post on slashdot.

    Your priorities are puzzling to say the least.

    I may be able to shed some light. I volunteered at a soup kitchen once, and when we were serving a whole room full of people, I noticed a couple of them had laptops. While I cannot know the exact reason, I had made a few guesses myself. I guessed that maybe a relative or a friend had given it to them, or they may have acquired it during a more plentiful portion of their lives, or an old laptop from the garbage that people start to throw out not so uncommon these days. So I would say it would be possible for a laptop to be in the possession of the homeless' stash.

    As for priorities, I would say that being connected to the rest of the world, even though if only online, would be a great way for someone homeless to stay mentally sane and updated on the world and perhaps find access to support programmes or odd jobs. Without a support tools, it is very hard for somebody homeless to re-enter society. Thus, I would say that our homeless friend who posted on slashdot's priorities make sense to me.

  71. Re:Games versus reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like you should have been a CIA assassin with that "level of detachment and ability to withstand what would be torturous for most people". You could be in Nigeria right now, knocking off Boko Haram kidnappers or something. Bloody, ugly work, and pure hell if you get caught . . . but what do you care?

    Don't like the US? Get out of the country and rip apart someone else's even-worse system from the inside. Being a snarky quasi-advocate for the American homeless doesn't seem to be doing anyone any good.

  72. Re:You blogged as a doper and thief in Oct/Nov 201 by blackomegax · · Score: 1

    I doubt you'll be dismantling any hegemony anytime soon sleeping inside abandoned buildings and under bridges floating food kitchen to food kitchen.

  73. Re:Games versus reality by neurovish · · Score: 1

    I hear you, but my genetics are corrupt and most people would never believe that I have lived through what I have. I would not want to relate any of the details. It would be irresponsible for me to father a child. Realizing that I don't have the emotional tools to deal with people on a normal level, much less raise a child, is something that I have come to grips with over a long process. My level of detachment and ability to withstand what would be torturous for most people makes me a good candidate to be a sort of martyr for those in similarly hellish situations but without the ability to express their feelings. You are right, and a wise old guy on the street told me something very similar, but this is "the work I don't want to do."

    If you are genuine and not fabricating this homeless persona ("running to a chowline for lentis and rice", who talks like that?), then reducing everything to your "genetics are corrupt" is rather fatalistic and sounds like you're ignoring the real cause of your situation. If you truly would rather live in homelessness, then own it and acknowledge that it is your choice. Don't blame it on your genetics. You can't deal with people on a normal level because you don't have the emotional tools? Fine, neither can a lot of people and they find ways to work around that. You have options and aren't on a set course that you can't deviate from, so don't pretend or lie to yourself that that is the case.

  74. BarbaraHudson: "Eat your words"... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I tore apart your stupid hosts file crapola." - by BarbaraHudson (3785311) on Tuesday August 19, 2014 @10:46AM (#47703255)

    Where? You RAN from trying recently -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... & you're FAIRLY given the opportunity to make good on those words of yours - you downmodded (via your many sockpuppets) & ran, lol, after your wise-ass comment on hosts here JUST before that challenge -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... quoted next below:

    ---

    "scans multiple forums repeatedly to troll his crappy HOSTS file " - by BarbaraHudson (3785311) on Sunday January 04, 2015 @11:58AM (#48730581) from http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...

    I only post on them where they apply (or confronting naysayers like you). Prove otherwise!

    (Oh, that's right - you're NOT BIG ON PROOF, are you? See below next...)

    ---

    "His only "legend in his own mind" was that he claimed that "his" hosts file could completely secure a windows computer. " - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday February 12, @11:19AM (#35186644)

    Where did I even *once* claim hosts completely secure a computer? Hosts are, however, the BEST single tool for more speed, security, reliability, & more. Prove otherwise.

    Putting words in my mouth I never stated != truth, or a good argument on YOUR part. You RAN from that too!

    ---

    "Who has independently vetted it?" - by BarbaraHudson (3785311) on Tuesday August 19, 2014 @10:46AM (#47703255)

    You tried to say it's malware/spyware too - guess what:

    Answer = The BEST in the security antimalware & antispyware business currently, http://www.av-test.org/en/news... per that VERY recent test's results, who also host & RECOMMEND my program for hosts, is who -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl... (Malwarebytes' hpHosts)

    * You've done better? No... lol!

    APK

    P.S.=> You fail: "Eat your words, Forrest" & you told others to stalk/harass me by ac posts as YOU YOURSELF do, unceasingly, for years http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    ... apk

  75. BarbaraHudson's b.s. answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You stalk me by ac posts & that's quoted in your words http://slashdot.org/comments.p... & your "points" vs. hosts = b.s. (in a 'journal' - not publicly since you KNOW they're bullshit):

    "We don't need to use a hosts file to block ads (adblock does it better)" - by BarbaraHudson (3785311) on Sunday September 21, 2014 @02:09PM

    FROM-> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    To THAT b.s. I point out how NOT BETTER it is, tearing up 4++gb of RAM & flooring CPU too -> https://blog.mozilla.org/nneth...

    +

    By default (since advertisers KNOW most folks using "Almost ALL Ads Blocked" won't change that) adblock's PAID OFF NOT TO DO ITS JOB FULLY -> http://techcrunch.com/2013/07/...

    ClarityRay's also DESTROYING AdBlock but it's NOT ABLE TO DO THAT to custom hosts files.

    You're *trying* to tell us that Adblock's vastly inferior in abilities + chews up resources LIKE MAD is "superior" to hosts that do all of what adblock does, and FAR more - with less? Please... lol!

    * I'm confronting YOU directly (despite your constant trollings of myself often behind my back like now from you, that I do *NOT* start 1st, until YOU pull your crap on me like usual: That's all!) for closure of this publicly so You can "eat her words" in front of us all!

    APK

    P.S.=> Facts above vs. BarbaraHudson's fictions & the FACT BarbaraHudson CANNOT DISPROVE that hosts do more w/ LESS, & far, Far, FAR MORE for added speed, security, reliability, + even anonymity (to an extent) vs. adblock & that hosts fix DNS security issues in DNS amplification attacks, DNS being downed, DNS being redirect poisoned etc. - et al as well: NO SINGLE SOLUTION does more & w/ less, period/fact, for all those points of mine here YOU downmodded & RAN from -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... like the troll & multiple account using sockpuppeteer YOU are... apk

  76. Warning, tastless joke by plopez · · Score: 1

    Easy problem to solve, just export them to SimAuschwitz.

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    1. Re:Warning, tastless joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Godwin's Law, Thread terminated

  77. SimCity Homelessness?? by MTEK · · Score: 1

    As a comfy westerner, this story made me blush. Talk about first world problems!

  78. Re:You blogged as a doper and thief in Oct/Nov 201 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I bet you really like the movie Fight Club.

  79. BarbaraHudson: "Eat your words"... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I tore apart your stupid hosts file crapola." - by BarbaraHudson (3785311) on Tuesday August 19, 2014 @10:46AM (#47703255)

    Where? You RAN from trying recently -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... & you're FAIRLY given the opportunity to make good on those words of yours - you downmodded (via your many sockpuppets) & ran, lol, after your wise-ass comment on hosts here JUST before that challenge -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... quoted next below:

    ---

    "scans multiple forums repeatedly to troll his crappy HOSTS file " - by BarbaraHudson (3785311) on Sunday January 04, 2015 @11:58AM (#48730581) from http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...

    I only post on them where they apply (or confronting naysayers like you). Prove otherwise!

    (Oh, that's right - you're NOT BIG ON PROOF, are you? See below next...)

    ---

    "His only "legend in his own mind" was that he claimed that "his" hosts file could completely secure a windows computer. " - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday February 12, @11:19AM (#35186644)

    Where did I even *once* claim hosts completely secure a computer? Hosts are, however, the BEST single tool for more speed, security, reliability, & more. Prove otherwise.

    Putting words in my mouth I never stated != truth, or a good argument on YOUR part. You RAN from that too!

    ---

    "Who has independently vetted it?" - by BarbaraHudson (3785311) on Tuesday August 19, 2014 @10:46AM (#47703255)

    You tried to say it's malware/spyware too - guess what:

    Answer = The BEST in the security antimalware & antispyware business currently, http://www.av-test.org/en/news... per that VERY recent test's results, who also host & RECOMMEND my program for hosts, is who -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl... (Malwarebytes' hpHosts)

    * You've done better? No... lol!

    APK

    P.S.=> You fail: "Eat your words, Forrest" & you told others to stalk/harass me by ac posts as YOU YOURSELF do, unceasingly, for years http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    ... apk

  80. BarbaraHudson's b.s. answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    BarbaraHudson stalks me by ac posts & that's quoted in your words http://slashdot.org/comments.p... & your "points" vs. hosts = b.s. (in a 'journal' - not publicly since you KNOW they're bullshit):

    "We don't need to use a hosts file to block ads (adblock does it better)" - by BarbaraHudson (3785311) on Sunday September 21, 2014 @02:09PM

    FROM-> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    To THAT b.s. I point out how NOT BETTER it is, tearing up 4++gb of RAM & flooring CPU too -> https://blog.mozilla.org/nneth...

    +

    By default (since advertisers KNOW most folks using "Almost ALL Ads Blocked" won't change that) adblock's PAID OFF NOT TO DO ITS JOB FULLY -> http://techcrunch.com/2013/07/...

    ClarityRay's also DESTROYING AdBlock but it's NOT ABLE TO DO THAT to custom hosts files.

    ---

    * You're *trying* to tell us that Adblock's vastly inferior abilities + chewing up resources LIKE MAD is "superior" to hosts?? Please... lol!

    (Hosts do all of what adblock does, + FAR more - with less!)

    APK

    P.S.=> Facts above vs. BarbaraHudson's fictions & the FACT BarbaraHudson CANNOT DISPROVE that hosts do more w/ LESS, & far, Far, FAR MORE for added speed, security, reliability, + even anonymity (to an extent) vs. adblock

    &

    That hosts fix DNS security issues in DNS amplification attacks, DNS being downed, DNS being redirect poisoned etc. - et al as well:

    NO SINGLE SOLUTION does more & w/ less, period/fact, for all those points of mine here YOU downmodded & RAN from -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... like the troll & multiple account using sockpuppeteer YOU are... apk

  81. Video Games are Not Real Life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the game Banished, I often find myself with houses holding childless elderly people while young people are unable to procreate because they are still having to live with their parents. I want a way to kill off, or at the very least make homeless, the elderly people to free up the house for the young. Hell, if I could grind them up to make another food source that would be ideal. This says nothing about my opinions on the elderly in real life, just as my constant destroying of crates in order to take supplies that obviously don't belong to me doesn't say anything about my opinions on theft and vandalism. Looking at how people in Sim City treat a factor of that simulation as any sort of indication on the real issue of homelessness is about as valid as figuring out society's treatment of prostitutes from Grand Theft Auto.

  82. Re:Games versus reality by eriks · · Score: 1

    Same here, though I don't have kids, and won't ever have kids, though I do have siblings with kids... so the same concept holds -- though poverty is not the only cause of suffering -- I'd imagine there are plenty of "well off" people who live with suffering of some sort, perhaps not so much physical suffering, but suffering nonetheless. So leaving one's kids a large inheritance is hardly a guarantee of them not suffering. I've heard too many horror stories of siblings fighting bitterly over inheritance... which I'm sure causes suffering. Anxiety and fear of losing one's worldly possessions is a form of suffering.

    Something like a universal basic income would likely solve the most egregious physical suffering for most that simply lack basic survival necessities, and an actual functioning public mental health system would take care of most who wouldn't benefit from just a basic income.

    The other kinds of suffering can only be eliminated by good friends, more advanced medicine, therapy, and personal philosophy or spirituality.

  83. Re:Games versus reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He said he has already been in pure hell... Atlanta.

  84. Re:Who cares? Uh Oh, somebody wrote San Francisco by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Rent Control and zoning are a real political hot potato in San Francisco with a lot of militants (and it may be even worse across the Bay in Berkeley.) You can always of course, find poster people where some long time tenant is evicted (this is what the local media like the late Bay Guardian like to show), or, if you're brave, show a poster child of a landlord who can't evict some tenant from hell. I mention this in case any outsiders are wondering what the fuss is about here.

  85. You forgot the other answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The other answer is to completely devalue the poor. You are worth what you own or the resources you command. If you don't control resources, that's it, you're a serf, or worse, a thing.

    The ownership class will then feel free to ignore or dispose of the things they don't want, as inexpensively as possible. Possibly using aerial drones or ground robots.

  86. Re:Games versus reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes_of_Sinope

    You could do a lot worse than potentially follow in the footsteps a man who mocked Plato and Alexander, if that is your lot.

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  91. fuck right off! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First off, don't come on here acting all superior and calling people stupid when you didn't even make one complete English sentence. You did not use one single capital letter nor one useful piece of punctuation.

    Also, throwing out the 10th is a complete cop-out. It has absolutely nothing to do with this. The question posited was "why is it ok to force people to pay for something they don't want when it goes into corporate hands but it's an unholy proposition to do so when the money goes back to the government?" How does the 10th apply to this? It doesn't. You merely handwaved the problem away.

    As is usual with you, Stoney McStonerstein, that's just, like, your opinion, man!

    1. Re:fuck right off! by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      ugh no, the point was that since mitt did it in mass, then its somehow ok to do at a federal level, which is wrong.

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  92. Re:Games versus reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People in this thread have mentioned your blog on more than one occasion. Where are they finding it? I want to read your blog but I can't find it. Where's your blog?

  93. Re:Games versus reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ah, yes, because there's no such thing as public libraries. And obviously, the homeless and poor must spend every waking moment trying to earn money and finding a job, and even a moment of respite or relaxation mean they're lazy sponges mooching off the system who want to be homeless.

    What a crock.

  94. Re:Games versus reality by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

    You do know what a coffee shop is for?

  95. Re:Games versus reality by ToddInSF · · Score: 2

    I'm a bit stunned that this comment is modded to a +5. I suddenly have a lot more respect for the homeless than I do slashdotters. After all, they've managed to befuddle slashdotters with their amazing abilities to get online, despite being poor.

  96. Re:Games versus reality by ToddInSF · · Score: 2

    I've been where you are now. What I don't understand is, why are you arguing with the fools here ?

    Most people simply lack the capacity to comprehend where you are simply because their life experiences and their own limitations prevent them from understanding. Not only are they not going to be of any assistance, their comments are going to be detrimental. They'll simply never understand. Why bother with them ? They are idiots.

    You seem perfectly coherent, articulate, and intelligent to me. So what if you have a less than ideal personality right now ? That doesn't have to be a permanent state any more than living on the street does, not for you it doesn't.

    The wealth of experience and understanding that you already have surpasses the average persons by far at this point. Accept help wherever you can get it. It doesn't matter what people's motivations are! Just take whatever you can get right now until you reach the goal of getting off the street. Other people's opinions are entirely insignificant. What and who you are now does not have to be what you are in a year, five years, ten years. That's what some people will never get. People change and evolve all the time.

    Given what you've described you've been through, I wouldn't be surprised that you are suffering from PTSD to some extent. You need to get stable. You need a decent place to stay. You need decent nutrition and something to do consistently. Go for those things, accept the help that you can, and keep trying. It can take a long time to heal, but you need to; your'e too intelligent and articulate to stay in the situation you're in now, and your ability to help people will be exponentially enhanced.

    I hope I haven't offended you. You just remind me so much of where I was nearly 25 years ago. I'm married now, I have friends that value me, and I'm able to help people. A LOT of people. Sometimes I look back and am amazed I survived. It would have been a whole hell of a lot easier if I'd just accepted help more often than I did. When I finally did, everything changed; not overnight, but gradually everything got better. Every little doubt that I had about myself and my limitations (which I might point out were put on me by fools) was dissolved over time.

    Get out of the trap, never forget that you were in the trap, and help others when you're able, to get out of the trap.

    And recognize that the comments made by fools here are part of the trap, too.

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  99. Re:Games versus reality by Rich0 · · Score: 1

    Hanging out in a library reading and posting on Slashdot is probably a hell of a lot more fun than sitting on a park bench in the rain.

    Yup, and a lot more fun than what I'll be doing for the next 8 hours... Your point?

  100. Re:You blogged as a doper and thief in Oct/Nov 201 by blackomegax · · Score: 1

    You can't get everyone to tune in and wake up enough to do that. You can't even get 5% to do that. Especially not from your platform.