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Ask Slashdot: Where Can You Get a Good 3-Button Mouse Today?
guises writes Ever since mouse wheels were introduced the middle mouse button has been sidelined to an inadequate click-wheel function, or in some cases ditched altogether. This has never sat well with me, a proper middle button is invaluable for pasting, games, and navigation. More than that, my hand categorically rejects two button mice — the dangling ring finger causes me genuine physical discomfort. I have begged Logitech on multiple occasions to make just one, among their many screwy specialty mice, to replace the Mouseman which I loved so dearly. I thought for a moment that I had been answered with the g600, only to find that they had put the right mouse button in the middle.
So my question to Slashdot is: where does a person turn for a three button mouse these days? I've only found two, both ergonomic and priced accordingly. I use the Contour and like the shape and wheel position, but would love to find something wireless and with a higher DPI sensor.
So my question to Slashdot is: where does a person turn for a three button mouse these days? I've only found two, both ergonomic and priced accordingly. I use the Contour and like the shape and wheel position, but would love to find something wireless and with a higher DPI sensor.
Just glue three Apple Mice together.
$69 for a mouse, especially a specialty one like you're wanting, is not that much. The only alternative is going to be buying a good used one from eBay.
Can't recommend enough the Performance Mouse MX enough.
While it does have the middle button integrated into the scroll wheel, once used to it you will find it completely intuitive. I middle click hundreds of times a day and only found it difficult during the first two weeks of owning the mouse. 5 years later I still prefer the Performance MX over anything else.
To middle click I typically shift my index finger over a centimeter or two. My hands are slightly above average size and ergonomically the PerfMX is perfect for me.
The g600 certainly looks programmable - is there no option to reassign the primary buttons? Hell, it seems like even the buttons on my normal Logitech office mouse can be reassigned, certainly the click-wheel can be. (on Linux at the moment, so I can't double check)
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
That sounds like something pretty basic that either Logitech or Microsoft would provide.
Not sure why a scroll wheel will not work for you, but check out the Logitech Couch Mouse M515. The wheel is not a middle, the button below the wheel is the third mouse button.
Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life
xmodmap -e "pointer = 1 3 2"
Can you share details on what the problems are with the clickable middle wheel? You mentioned it's "inadequate", but what makes it so? Just wondering because I use the middle-button/wheel all the time and it seems to work as well as the other buttons - no discomfort, no extra thought, etc.
The Logitech Anywhere Mouse MX is a wireless mouse, so may not suit. It does nonetheless have a middle button distinct from the scroll wheel, and is not a weird 'ergonomic' shape.
I use it with the laptop, but at work I'm on the sadly long-discontinued Logitech Marble Mouse, with middle-button emulation. (I see that there is now the Trackman Marble, so perhaps I will still have somewhere to go if my venerable trackball ever dies!)
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/products/oas/product-detail.html?oid=403895
I think the general case for right handed people is that the pointer finger is used for left click, ring finger is used for right click. I imagine this is now due to the mice having two large buttons and a scroll wheel instead of three large buttons. Try using only two fingers on the mouse instead of three, then your ring finger will not dangle, unlike other appendages.
The middle mouse button is certainly useful, but I find the scroll wheel being a button is sufficient for me. I don't like Apple's multitouch mouse at all. Real buttons for me, thanks.
But I guess paradigms are changing. In Linux, as we move forward to Wayland, policies regarding the middle click are pushed into the toolkits. I hope they see fit to allow the enabling of select and middle-click paste. I can understand that not all users want it (some actually like the middle-click to start a page scroll), but for those that do, it's so fast and handy.
Mice are so mass-market these days that it is hard to find one that actually performs properly. I've gone through a lot of mice over the years, always preferring the hardwired mice over the wireless (dead battery == unhappy), but in the last round I simply couldn't find a wired mouse that worked well. Everything being sold was wireless.
Of late, many of the mice I've tried have simply been too big and bulky, stretching my fingers and generally uncomfortable.
I wound up going with a Microsoft Sculpt 1569 wireless mouse (w/ Nano Transceiver). The Logitech M325 wireless also works but its middle-button-scroll wheel isn't ratcheted. These small mice are nice, my thumb and two right fingers hang over the edge and stay relaxed.
Also I recommend buying a non-rechargable alkaline AA for it, which will last 6 months. The rechargable NiMH batteries usually only last 1-2 months before they have to be replaced/recharged due to nominal leakage, which is too annoying (though I suppose one could buy low-leakage NiMHs).
The middle button scroll wheel isn't a problem. Most of them can also be clicked left and right which IS a problem because it's trivial to accidently click left or click right when you are just trying to push down on it as a middle button. So I disable the mouse-wheel left/right action entirely via:
xinput set-button-map Mouse1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 0 0 10 11
For the transceiver I find that (obviously) the closer it is to the mouse the better. The best solution is to buy a keyboard that has a USB extension on its right or left side and plug the transceiver into that. Then the transceiver is right next to the mouse with no extra cabling. The Razer (mechanical) gaming keyboards are my favorite... very heavy so they don't move around and have the same feel as the old IBM mechnical keyboards had. 80 WPM is a breeze on them.
-Matt
Vertical mouse best mouse. Yeah it takes a week or so to really get used to the new hand position and buttons but after the learning period it's everything a regular mouse is but without the wrist/forearm pain I used to have after long gaming sessions.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
I have one of these - ostensibly a gaming mouse, I use it as my only mouse. You can't go wrong. Give it a go.
Requiem for the American Dream
Get a used mouseman from ebay ($10 and free shipping), throw away the top cover, and 3-d print your own.
Don't own a 3-d printer? Probably one of your friends does, or the local university, or the local hackerspace, or as a last resort you can use shapeways.
Grab some modeling clay in your hand, make a 3-d scan of the resulting "handle", add fasteners for the buttons and ball (or IR chip), then 3-d print a custom-grip top cover. You can get IR mouse elements and ball elements from old mice, usually for free on Craigslist. Or the local Salvation Army store.
Purchase a sheet of friendly plastic (polycaprolactone), soften it in a pan of boiling water, then lay it over your relaxed open hand like a handkerchief. Wait for it to cool and harden, take a dremel to it, and use that as a custom-molded mouse top.
Get an Arduino, or any of the zillions of hobbyist microcontroller systems (pic, propeller, &c) which have a USB interface, and add buttons and an IR chip from an existing older mouse and program the buttons specifically for your needs.
Get a used mouse with lots of buttons, remount the buttons into a custom top as mentioned, then reprogram the button codes in the driver.
Or write your own USB driver at the OS level - it's not that hard. (For windows, it involves downloading the DDK and modifying an example found on the net.)
next you will want a FOUR button mouse .
Bluetooth, comfortable mouse with a wheel, but a split 3rd button. Instead of a 3rd button integrated with the will, it's a smaller button closer to the palm.
Onda Technology Institute
The erosion of middle-button paste functionality is a continual frustration.
There are cultural differences between the Windows and Macintosh personal computing worlds, and that of X11 on Unix workstations. While always allowing customisability, we should hold on to the good ideas of the past, rather than dismiss them as being unfamiliar to the personal computer user.
What irks me especially is that the same forces that are driving us towards a Windows-like experience on the Linux desktop are also removing the ability to easily customise our environment, if only to retain the functionality that is being deprecated or dismissed. (I'm looking at you, GNOME.)
You can - I've done that exact thing.
It doesn't work without driver software, though, so you might have a problem with any OS that isn't Windows...
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
A lot of people are suggesting that the G600 might be reprogrammable, but they all note that they don't have the mouse, so they don't know for sure.
I do.
I just checked it, and you can reprogram the primary mouse buttons to anything you want. You can also set that as the mouse's built-in configuration, so you don't need to use the drivers and the settings will be persistent across computers. Have fun.
If you can't convince them, convict them.
Dont know about anyone else but I have not looked back since discovering track balls. Seem to be a lot more precise to maneuver than a mouse and there is always a plethora of buttons. My current trackball is billiard ball size with buttons on four sides. I forget the vendor... Use it for Autocad, Photoshop etc. One huge difference -- it just sits there so no real estate needed to swing it around. With a cluttered desk... bonus.
The six button gaming mice encourage you to retrain your hand position. Mouse wheels are big and made to be clicked easily without disturbing the scroll wheel. You should just learn to adapt to this new stuff imo.
Clickety Click
Here you go - http://www.amazon.com/Sun-Microsystems-MOUSE-Crossbow-370-3631-02/dp/B00B86XP0C/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1422139384&sr=8-10&keywords=sun+mouse
They have an excellent selection of 3-button mice at Circuit City. What, don't you have a time machine?
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
I've been disappointed with most of the click-wheel mice I've used. I guess it's hard to balance the stiffness of the wheel and the button - either the button is too easy to click by mistake when scrolling, or too stiff so it's hard to click without moving the scroll wheel. I've had problems with brands like Microsoft and Logitech.
My favourite mouse currently is a Razer Taipan. I got it for gaming, but I love it for general desktop use. It's got the best button feel of any mouse I've used, including the scroll-wheel button. It's not cheap, but I don't mind spending a few bucks on a tool I use all the time.
Ive been using a contour perfit mouse now for some 8 or so years and love the ergonomics, its genuinely saved me from the RSI monster that was giving me problems. But as you say, the optical tracking is just about as bad as it gets; it often skips over 2-3 pixels randomly and the low dpi means you cant speed it up to any useful degree on high DPI screens. This sucks majorly for doing photoshop and 3D stuff and making gaming a less than great experience. I mailed them 2-3 years back asking if they had any plans to upgrade the tracking and just got a generic canned response that they will look into it.
the lenovo scrollpoint mouse (http://support.lenovo.com/at/de/documents/migr-43954) has a fairly well accessible third button. IIRC it was quite popular in the Plan9 community a few years ago (their tools heavily depend on a third button)
If want real geek points make one. Take a conventional wireless wheel mouse, remove the wheel, and print a new 3D case what has the shape and button layout you want.
Bonus points, put a howto up on Hackaday.
USB 3-button optical mouse for $12. Problem solved.
I bought a logitech mx dark field mouse because i've got a glass-topped desk.
But it turns out it's got a little button in the middle behind the wheel; that's the third button.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
remember when they put out the MS Optical 3 button "Business 200"? OYG that was an amazing piece of kit. Best £8 I ever spent, right there. It has a well behind the scroll wheel which helps prevent accidental scrolling (somehow you have to have your finger directly on the wheel to move it, glancing it doesn't work), and the 3rd button is actually under the well. A later model (with an LED out the back just to let you and the rest of the office know your mouse is plugged in) has button 3 as a thumb switch (and annoyingly only comes in right handed variant)
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
Why wouldn't xmodmap work for the OP? It's not portable but, if you're the type that carries their personal mouse around with them, the configuration commands could easily be stashed on a USB drive and loaded onto any (UNIX/Linux) computer you're going to attach your mouse to.
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
Logitech Marble. Ambidextrous, bloody huge ball (I mean it's like off a kangaroo or something, handy when you've got hands the size of dinner plates like I have), 4 buttons (UI configurable, you don't need ANY extra software), lasts for fucking ever. I have several, had 'em for well over ten years and they've never given me a jot of trouble through daily use.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
so what happened to your old thumbball?
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
Because the mouse in it's default hardware profile (without the driver) mostly plays a USB keyboard and sends keystrokes for the other buttons; and without the driver's software profile support you can't even freely map the middle mouse button to where the right mouse button is by default...
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
The Logitech Anywhere MX has a physical middle-click button underneath the scroll wheel ("clicking" the wheel itself just toggles a friction gear on the scroll wheel). If it weren't for your additional complaint about needing a massive mouse (this thing is tiny), it would be perfect for you.
Interestingly, while it really can run perfectly on surfaces as weird as glass, I have found one surface it does not work on: my old mousepad.
I've been using a Kensington Expert Mouse trackball for years and left-click with my thumb, right-click with my pinky, and manipulate the large track ball with the other three fingers. I got it after my index finger started to develop signs of arthritis after having used a regular mouse for so many years. (Anyone remember the Logitech 3-button bus mouse and the Point text editor? (Yeah that long.) I want to find another one of those trackballs.
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
tells you how low slashdot has gotten, when it says at the top, instead of "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters" (why has this gone?), now "Become a fan of Slashdot on Facebook". Er, how about "NO!"?
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
You can disable the mouse wheel while keeping the middle-click functionality by taking off the shell and using a dab of crazy glue.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
The cheapest mice are symetrical. $14 got me a new keyboard and mouse that work fine left-handed.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
I still have a hand-me-down from Doug Englebart. Now, get of my lawn.
Well, the Contour mouse that I mentioned in the summary comes in several sizes for lefties. Not wireless though, we're in the same boat there. The Evolent mouse also has a left-handed version, though no no wireless for that one.
I don't have an answer, but I'm reading this with keen interest as I feel similarly about input devices. I recently wrote up some of my ongoing keyboard rants where scrollwheels are also discussed. One general issue seems to be that those who don't learn to use keyboards properly, will reinvent similar functionality in mice (arrow keys and pgup/pgdn -> scrollwheels).
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Why don't you design one and get your project funded on kickstarter? You would get the exact mouse you want, plus money.
lucm, indeed.
Link 3 on the Google search for "3 button mouse without scroll wheel"
http://www.amazon.com/HP-Optic...
Plus the 2 new models you found there does not really seem to be a real shortage of your niche product.
I am a HUGE believer in the G600. You see all those 12 buttons on the side? You see the two buttons at the top? You can configure them however you want, and you'll never need to do the clicky-wheel.
So, what's the problem? I really don't see it. Oh, there's a button on the far right that your pinky or ring finger can get to.
You DO realize you can map the G600 buttons... right?
As I've posted elsewhere, it's easy to just unscrew the casing and disable the scrolling function of the scroll wheel with a dab of crazy glue. Or, you can just cut the lead to the wheel inside the mouse - the click will still work.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Make sure the configuration is stored in the mouse itself. Most mice do it in the driver and that does not work with other OSes. For example, the Sharkoon Fireglider and Darkglider mice store config in the mouse and hence work the same under Windows, Linux, etc. I have put the middle button on the thumb button permanently this way.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
You save to the on-board memory it's a basic function, and everything works the same in linux etc. http://support.logitech.com/en... if ya need instructions. Works fine for me when I multi boot.
No sir I dont like it.
I use a Microsoft Wireless Mouse 5000. Completely symetrical, so it works left exactly the same a right. I mouse left, but I got used to the "left click" on the left. It works fine with the buttons remapped (ie left click on right button) I just don't use it that way. It's nothing special otherwise, and I'm sure gamerz will laugh at it, but it works ok for me.
I guess I didn't emphasize this.
1)- Map your left button (button 1) to left button.
2)- Map the button to the right of that (button 2) to middle button [normally this is right button]
3)- Map the far right button (the "g-shift" button normally, but it can do ANYTHING AT ALL including typing letters) to right button.
Problem solved. With nothing but the mouse and the software that comes with it. Which you can run yourself, go to a friends house and run it there, get a VM and run it there, run it on a laptop, or hack it up somehow, because the G600 has internal memory. But it's super easy and user friendly. And then you just ignore the mouse wheel or wheel it with your "button 2" finger.
lasts for fucking ever
I'm using trackman wheels, the mouse that replaced the original trackman marble, and which was contemporary to the device you are thinking of as the marble. They're the thumb trackball. The actually original trackman marble might have been available without a wheel, but that was a long time ago. But the reason I posted is that I've had to replace both my left and middle buttons because they used cheap shit omron microswitches. did they actually use something reputable in the 2nd marble?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Or you can do that all in the settings (at least on Linux and OS X)
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
The original variant of the optical IBM/Lenovo scrollpoints are really nice and have a separate third button above the XY scroll saddle. Bonus points for having a two axis scroller that is hard to slip off when pressing left or right and being symmetric for ambidextrous use. The later models fail by putting the third button on the side.
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
Or instead of calling the person an idiot, try reading the summary?
"...the middle mouse button has been sidelined to an inadequate click-wheel function..."
But he doesn't explain why it is "inadequate". A middle button that functions as both a button and a scroll wheel is a clear improvement. The scroll wheel does not detract from the button click functionality, and in fact, improves it, since the middle button has a distinctly different tactile feel, so you don't fat-finger it by accident. The old three-button-no-scroll-wheel mouse died for a reason. It was inferior in every way.
A friend of mine runs a training center for the disabled, and many of those physically challenged people do not have the agility to use computer mice effectively
On the other hand, trackballs, especially the trackballs with 'big size ball' seem to work with most of them
My friend's training center used to stock many of those trackballs with 'big size balls' but unfortunately most of his trackballs have worn out
And that nobody these days seems to make trackballs anymore
So, may I peruse this thread to ask where can one buy good trackballs, perferably those with 'bit size balls' ?
If you know of any source, please share, as this would greatly help many of the disabled people encumbered with physical difficulties
I thank all of you in advance !
Cool. I might even buy one. Or more.
I've used some click wheel mice that are extremely difficult to click without triggering side scroll functionality. Perhaps they're soured by these types of mice?
Not sure if this is true, but someone claimed recently that highlight to copy, middle-click to paste was a bug in X originally, but it was found useful so kept. Also, as it currently stands it is a highly useful, but very insecure mode of operation. In effect anything you highlight is immediately visible to other apps running. In today's world this starts to become a security concern, especially if you run something that's not fully vetted and trusted (that's what non-root is for, after all!). Not sure quite how this dilemma will be solved.
Middle mouse works to paste in terminals, like Xterm, where ctrl+v does not work. Additionally, it's very efficient. In a terminal I can double click a string and paste the string much more efficiently than using a keyboard. Yeah, I know.. if you are using Windows you really don't worry too much about efficiency either.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
I have to middle-click all day, the stock DELL mouse with raised scroll wheel/middle button does just fine. And you may be able to get a free one from a sys admin somewhere.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
this is it. This is the ORIGINAL Trackman Marble. The USB model actually came out before the PS/2 model (I know this because I had to buy a PS/2 adapter, having only two USB ports at the time which were both already in use and hubs cost a fortune back then)
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
addendum: the DOM on one of the trackballs I have is 2002.04.01, the label on the other one that's immediately to hand is too worn to read.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
yep. Noticed for some reason slashdot dropped the amazon link. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trackm...
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/produ...
That was easy.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
You basically already found the mouse you want. That g60 thing or whatever that had the three buttons on top. Your problem was that they're mapped incorrectly for your tastes.
Okay. Use autohotkey to remap the keys. Problem solved.
Someone beer me.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
If your beef with mice is phisical discomfort clicking mice - get a roccat mouse. It has utility to rebind buttons. Use side buttons, rebind them as middle button, and your physical discomfort is gone.
Stupid name, but I have been using the mouse for a couple of years and like it a lot. I find that my hand rests more comfortably on this mouse than any other I've used.
In trying to decide which mouse to get, I relaxed my hands and kind of hung them in the air over my desk, without twisting them in anticipation of a mouse. Tried to imagine being weightless. That position was probably 80 degrees off from what I would have to do to use an 'ordinary' mouse. So I thought, 'Hey, if the mouse is oriented the same as my hand would be in a relaxed state, maybe they're onto something'.
Anyway, it has several buttons, though I only use the three large ones. And the scrollwheel.
this is it. This is the ORIGINAL Trackman Marble.
The original Logitech Trackman Marble was a thumb trackball which predates that mouse by so much it didn't even have the super-smooth, metallic-painted design. You have no idea what you're on about, perhaps because you're twelve. The device you linked to came years later, after they had discontinued the original marble and replaced it with the Logitech Trackman Wheel T-BB18. I went through about three of the original Marbles back when I was into a whole lotta FPS gaming, they would just die. The Trackman Wheel, on the other hand, just the microswitches die most of the time. It's a relatively easy job to replace them. I got the last replacements out of a T-BB18 that did just become unresponsive, though.
The "Marble" name made a whole lot more sense with the original device, because the ball was smaller. But don't take my word for it, educate yourself on logitech thumb-operated trackballs and then you can scroll down past the device I'm using now and see the original Trackman Marble. Hooray internet.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
This and a Wacom tablet and you are all set. Bit pricy though when you add the needed Wacom tablet. https://store.wacom.com/us/en/... OR you could just get one of these which took about 2 min to find with the Google http://www.chairslimited.com/p... http://evoluent.com/ Or for a whole page full of them http://www.aliexpress.com/popu...
OMG Ponies!!! with Glitter!!!! I miss Pink
One of the latest trends I have seen is to make the middle mouse button a touch surface.
As I also love the middle mouse button but hate the wheel I have found these to be excellent. I have three of them (all Microsoft mice if you want to hold that against me) and the middle button is just as easy to press as either of the side ones.
Well two anyway. Do a bit of research first. The Surface Arc for instance looks like it has a middle button but it doesn't. It requires a double touch on the middle section to simulate a middle click which is really annoying.
The one I use at home is similar but not exactly this model: Sculpt Touch Mouse
I've heard of Winmodems. Today I learned about the Winmouse. Ugh.
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
The Logitech G600 is pretty decent if you can get used to the larger size and all the buttons on the side. Stupidly, it forbids you from programming the middle button to middle click and right button to right click. You can program the middle button to right click and right button to middle click, though, and then swap the two with xmodmap if you're using linux. You might also want to program the resolution down much lower than the default for linux use. Of course, since it's from Logitech, you'll need Windows or MacOS to program it.
Hate to break it to you, but that is the TRACKMAN MARBLE PLUS (THE PAGE YOU LINKED!!). Mine is the TRACKMAN MARBLE. http://www.logitech.com/en-gb/...
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
"Open link in new tab" in most web browsers
Panning the view in many graphics editors (don't even talk to me about tilt-wheels - I want to be able to scroll in whatever arbitrary direction is appropriate to whatever I'm doing at the moment)
Lots of different stuff in 3D modeling software.
Lots of advanced functionality in multi-clickable interfaces where, generally speaking, left-click=most common action, right-click = context menu, and middle click is usually a moderately common alternate action, often user-configurable. For just normal Window GUI stuff it's not uncommon to middle click the title bar and widgets to roll-up to window shade view, send to back or make always on top, minimize to the tray, or various other options. It often takes a 3rd-party extension, but power users have the option to do such things on all the major OSes
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Can;t you reconfigure the logitech g600 you mentioned to have a third button in the middle and a right button on the right?
I switched to the Kensington Expert Mouse trackball when it first came out many years ago. All versions have four buttons. The newer versions have added a scroll ring around the trackball. As a result, I have been able to avoid RSIs. The added benefit is that users of these trackballs have enhanced functionality in day-to-day operations, from programming, to browsing, to graphics work, and gaming.
Since you mentioned physical discomfort with a dangling ring finger I must stress that you try out the Kensington Expert Mouse (can be bought new as cheap as $60). The ring finger rests on the right button or the upper-right button depending on your preference.
Kriston
Arg. I knew that was too good to be true. I knew it!
"Lets make a totally customizable mouse with tons of buttons so users can configure it however they like."
"Great idea! Only, you know, not anyone who doesn't use Windows or Mac OS."
"Natch."
"Also, let's make it totally customizable _except_ for the ability to put the middle mouse button in the middle or the right button on the right."
"Ha! Won't it be hilarious to see all those idiots trying to right click with the right mouse button. What a bunch of moroons..."
I've used some as well, but only some. This guys argument for a button-only middle button hinges on *every* click-wheel mouse being hard to use, and that's clearly false. I've been through about 5 mice in the last few months trying to find a comfortable replacement for the intellimouse explorer 3.0 (why did they stop making it?), and of all the problems I've had, accidental scrolling while middleclicking never happened.
It honestly sounds like a problem out of a late night infomercial.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Are you tired of accidentally scrolling when you mean to paste?
I am an extremely happy Evoluent customer. The mouse is absolutely terrific, very comfortable and actually _more_ intuitive than a flat mouse once you get used to it. With the exception of my graphics designer, every single person in the office fell in love with my vertical mouse when I let them try it for a few days.
However, nobody is willing to pay $100 for the mouse, just like they are not willing to pay $70 for a mechanical keyboard. I think that people see cheap mice and keyboards for $10, so they feel cheated when they spend much more than that on peripheral equipment. The truth is that I'm a sucker as well. Even though I have an Evoluent at work I still use a flat mouse at home as the price of a second Evoluent is hard to justify to myself when I hardly use the mouse at all (Vimperator, Linux).
Damn the price, trust me, you want that mouse though. The discrete middle-mouse button is only the icing on the cake. Almost _everything_ on that mouse is absolutely terrific.
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
More than that, my hand categorically rejects two button mice — the dangling ring finger causes me genuine physical discomfort.
I have a feeling you also missed this sentence. He is bemoaning the loss of the middle button as much for the form factor as for the additional features. The old three-button mice were designed to allow index-middle-ring fingers to rest on the mouse with the thumb and pinky around the edges. Everyone has a favorite mouse shape - ivory soap bar, ergonomic hockey puck, small and narrow, palm vertical, etc - his just happens to be the three-button mouse.
~~
It has a small button below the wheel that you can program as the middle button. It's a decent mouse. I'm a happy with it. http://www.logitech.com/en-us/...
The Logitech M500 has just a couple of side buttons, making them easier to reliably select with your thumb. These can be assigned to any of a large number of functions. I use mine for "double-click", which works nicely in both shell and GUI to reduce finger fatigue. $30 list. Wheel shifts between fast-as-hell smooth roll and traditional clunky roll actions. It can act as a middle mouse button. Corded, so batteries are not an issue. "http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/corded-mouse-m500"
Windows and Linux both interpret pressing both mouse buttons as pressing the middle mouse button.
Buck Feta. You know what to do.
The Logitech G600 is wonderful. You just need third-party software to remap the buttons.
On Windows, I recommend "X-Mouse Button Control": http://www.highrez.co.uk/downl...
On OSX, I recommend either SteerMouse or "USB Overdrive"
A few years ago I broke my right hand and with the cast I could not twist my hand and arm so that I could have used a conventional mouse. So I got an Evoluent vertical mouse. I've stuck with it since because I no longer have a mouse hand and the mouse does have a fully funcctional correctly placed middle button. It also has a scroll wheel but most importantly, it also is in the right place.
Logitech isreally good at making wonky speciality mice that are almost perfect but then there is something that completely puts you off and they refuse to do anything about it. It's works, we won't fix it.
According to the authority Mr Jinks, the correct plural is "meeces"
Get a vertical mouse, no more discomfort for any finger or arm, it also has 6 buttons.
http://evoluent.com/
"(...) my hand categorically rejects two button mice â" the dangling ring finger causes me genuine physical discomfort (...)"
I recently noticed that a colleague that suffers from RSI and was in the process of trying different mouses holds his mouse different from what I do; I hold keep my ring finger and little finger both on the right side of the mouse, either stacked on top of each other or with both fingertips touching the desk surface. Mouse movement is controlled only using the thumb and the ring finger; the rest of my hand is normally not touching the mouse except for my finger tips. Forefinger controls the left mouse button, middle finger controls the right mouse button and the middle button/scroll wheel can be controlled by both fingers. I've always held my house that way and being a long time X-user, I have always used 3-button mice.
Having noticed that difference, I tried holding my mouse the way my colleague did: one finger for each button. This causes major strain in my hand (exactly the place where my colleague had troubles), probably because my fingers have different lengths. So I went around the office, asking people how the held their mouse and whether they had complaints. Turns out, most people held their mice in a way similar to how I do it. Those that didn't had more trouble with their hands.
I'm not saying you should switch hand-on-mouse position; everybody's different. However, you might want give it a try.
0x or or snor perron?!
The most common mouse failure is the microswitches. Most mice use the exact same switch... Ten minutes, a cheap pencil iron, desolder wick, and some solder, and you are good to go for another few years.
I've been nursing along an original Trackman Marble for twenty years this way.
Yay so you are put out that mice have 10+ buttons these days, well done you have the most replies to a topic on the front page, and for why? Because you can't handle change and embrace the much more useful modern mice designs and all their dizzying functions by retraining yourself to use your "ring finger" for right click and your thumb for everything else. Behold this persons inability to learn a new skill. bravo, we should hold you aloft.
Hate to break it to you, but that is the TRACKMAN MARBLE PLUS (THE PAGE YOU LINKED!!).
That's what they originally called the model with the wheel, dildo.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Got to say, I middle-click a lot and I've not had a problem with the MS Intelimouse for this purpose.
soylentnews.org
you linked to a blog. GP linked to the manufacturers website, fucktard.
Yes, and the product he linked to didn't even exist when Logitech brought out the original Trackman Marble. I know what it was called because I was there and I bought several of them. I bought them both with and without scrolling wheels. You two kids are talking about something you know nothing about, and misinterpreting the data that you're seeing. But I can see why you were too afraid of me to log in. Typical coward.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
For me it's the best device I ever had to work with.
It's a 5 Button mouse with 2 for the Thumb, and three on top.
The scrollwheel can easily be swithched from stepping mode to free wheeling which is very convenient when surfing the net or reading big documents. It also supports sideways scrolling. The middle button is behnd the wheel. I also have come across mice with scroll wheels also been used as middle button and found this setup almost unusable.
As I hold the mous loosely between thump and pinky, I have three fingers resting relaxed on top of mouse and use the middle finger for scrolling and pasting.
Early last year I had to work at a customers premise with a 2 Button mouse with tail ;) and got a severe RSI.
After changing to use my own - and of course some treatment and changing to my left hand for mouse usage - I'm now fine again.
BTW: There I have to work in a W7 environment :-((( - OTOH hand in my own organisation there is not even a single peace of crap from Seattle.
My ring finger sits nicely on the side of the mouse. I have an LG gaming mouse though so maybe that is why it is comfortable.
Obviously, what you want is a really old mouse. There's loads of them out there. Lots of the ball mice were perfectly useful. Get a 3M precision mousing surface to go with your mouse, they lay very flat and they grip very well. Every time I go to a flea market I see dozens of old PS2/Serial Logitech mice with three buttons.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Anecdotally, I can't think of a mouse I've had that problem with for the past umpty years. Perhaps it's poor technique? I tend to arch my fingers over the mouse's front end and touch the buttons with the tips.
so link to the manufacturers website to the page which supports your claim
You still don't understand how the Logitech website works. When they reuse a product name, the old product is renamed in the database to remove the conflict, and listed only under its model number. But here is an ebay listing showing the exact device in question, asshole. You could have found this yourself with google if you weren't such a dumbshit.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
You really should just look on eBay. I see several listed.
The Evoluent Vertical mouses have three base buttons, are ergonomical and is programmable.
http://evoluent.com/products/v...
Serge
It's really absurd, isn't it? Logitech could win the favor of linux users if they offered something even as rudimentary as a command line programming tool or a protocol spec.
I would have bought a mouse from a company that supports linux, but since I really wanted all those extra buttons, my options were severely limited. The G600 was the least bad option.
In case you decide to buy it, here's the ~/.Xmodmap file I use to swap the middle and right buttons:
pointer = 1 3 2 4 5 6 7 8 9
keycode 78 = Multi_key
(That second line is unrelated; it lets me use Scroll Lock as my compose key.)
You can also let your parrot chew on it until the scroll functionality is disabled
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
The only benefits CST trackballs have is that they are reasonably rugged, and that it is impossible to remove the ball itself without disassembling the casing. Both are obvious benefits when it comes to users with limited motor skills.
In every other case, they're completely inferior in ergonomics. Because of the bearings, they are very much biased towards X and Y movements, diagonal movements tend to wander and feel stiffer than straight up/down or left/right. Completely inferior to a trackball with "floating" ruby bearing, like what Logitech and Kensington use.
Eat the rich.
Or drop some Cheetos crumbs into it :-)
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
It took him two days to destroy my brand new gaming mouse. Very sad. Then he destroyed my expensive headphones. But we love him and wouldn't wish him away ever.
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
Thanks. I'll probably get one, judging from this thread it seems like the best option available.
You obviously dont know what he is talking about. CAD mice are also shaped different so that it wider so that 3 finger are all on the mouse comfortably.
OMG Ponies!!! with Glitter!!!! I miss Pink
Sure.
Another option is to get a mouse with a thumb button and map it to middle-click. I did that with my old Logitech, and would probably have done the same with an Anker CG100 if I didn't want an MMO gaming mouse like the G600.
I've used a *lot* of different mice out there, and I keep settling on Logitech's MX series as one of my favorites. .... and now the Performance Mouse MX.
I used to have their MX1000 laser mouse, and then the MX Revolution
My only complaint about these mice is that the black rubber "grippy" areas on the sides where you rest your fingers wears off after a while in spots, making the mouse look pretty ragged/beat-up at that point, even if it's still functional otherwise.
I also preferred the MX Revolution's charging cradle to the current design where you just plug a micro-USB cable into the front of the mouse to recharge it. (I find the micro USB cable to be a bit difficult to get inserted just right, and I have a feeling it will be one of the things that breaks first on this mouse.)
What I'd really like to see, though, is a bluetooth version of one of these. If you're a Mac user (especially of a notebook like the Air which doesn't have a lot of ports), a bluetooth mouse makes much more sense than wasting a USB port with a wireless receiver dongle. But there's VERY little available in the way of quality bluetooth mice. HP makes a couple of Z series BT mice, but the more expensive ($60 or so) one that tries to look like an Apple product (complete with gesture support on the flat top surface) fails to impress. Other than it's promised long battery life, it was nothing but negatives when I tried it. Gesture support is jerky and overly sensitive, unlike Apple's own Magic Mouse -- and the buttons start acting up where they stick when pressed or fail to register when pressed. The cheaper black Z series BT mouse from HP actually feels more comfortable in my hand and works better as a standard mouse (no fancy gesture support or slim line buttons that don't work right). BUT, drop it on the floor even once and expect it to blow up into pieces all over the floor.
It is inferior in that when trying to do a middle click (e.g. for a paste function in Linux) you also do a scroll up or down. This means that you paste it to the wrong place.
As this did not happened when there was no scroll.
If something is not an issue for you does not mean there is no issue for anybody.
I solved it by using a multi-button trackball and assigning the middle click to another button.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Yeah. The reason you can't find 3-button mice are because scroll mice provide everything they did and more. Honestly I find it easier to position my fingers since the middle "button" is significantly different in feel than the others.
The only issue is that on SOME mice it's too easy to accidentally scroll.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I like the scroll wheel for scrolling, but I don't find it at all easy to click the wheel. That function may as well not exist for me.
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
Yeah, but there's no way to map the "middle" of the three top buttons to the middle mouse button - with on-board memory you can just swap the left and middle buttons...
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
Nothing wrong with that. I bought a new system from nixsys about a month ago so that I can play old Windows 98 games on a system made from mostly new components. Personally, I love Apple trackpad for use on both OSX and Windows. But early mouse systems 3 button mice with a special metal pad also had amazing and reliable precision, unlike modern optical mice where you constantly have to worry about having perfect surface or suffering from little slips when you move them around.
You can enable chord-middle (I don't like it) or setup your .Xdefaults to use a different mouse button or key stroke for past. those xrdb files are ugly, but quite powerful.
I drilled a hole in my trackball and mounted momentary switch for middle click, makes for a cool retro looking button. Since most mouse buttons are a basic switch, it's very easy to keep the original circuit in parallel without any fancy electrical knowledge.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
That's actually the part that I didn't understand... the shape feels same to me and my middle finger just rests on the scroll wheel instead of the middle button. Is it just the slightly wider area?