Slashdot Mirror
Windows 10: Charms Bar Removed, No Start Screen For Desktops
jones_supa writes Late last week, Microsoft pushed out a new build (9926) of Windows 10 to those of you who are running the Technical Preview. The latest version comes with many new features, some easily accessible, others bubbling under, but two big changes are now certain: the Charms bar is dead, and Start Screen for large devices is no more. Replacing the Charms bar is the Action Center, which has many of the same shortcuts as the Charms bar, but also has a plethora of other information too. Notifications are now bundled into the Action Center and the shortcuts to individual settings are still easily accessible from this window. The Start Screen is no longer present for desktop users, the options for opening it are gone. Continuum is the future, and it has taken over what the Start Screen initiated with Windows 8.
Screenshots of more than just the settings would have been nice.
I'm using the large Start screen as we speak(on desktop)
I just resized it?
as for charms bar I won't miss that on desktop
Google Images search for windows 10 continuum brings up images such as this one from this page. It looks like a small chunk of a Windows 8 Start screen and part of a Windows 7 Start menu put together. I'm assuming that the appearance of the new Continuum start menu didn't change when Microsoft removed the option to use full-screen Start screen.
Charms bar? Continuum?
Names used to be fairly intuitive, and even when they weren't completely intuitive their names were derived from their technical function. I'm thinking "context menu", "start menu", "task list", "quick-launch menu", and "system tray".
Now they're just marketing doublespeak.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
... they took the Win 7 desktop + the win 8 kernel and called it windows 10. Job done. The days when anyone cared about all these GUI toys like the charms bar/continuum/whatever on a PC is long gone - people have got all that crap on their smartphones now.
It sounded stupid and it was stupid, an artifact of trying to force desktop computers to have the interface of a mobile device. Please stop this insanity. At work everyone has 17" monitors, at home I have a 22" monitor, and none of them are (or will be) touch screens. There's plenty of room for a real UI.
There's an icon for it.
Thanks for the heads up. I have been and Windows user since it was DOS but now I know it's time to get a Mac!
oh god what's wrong with you
the start menu still contains a mini start screen. George Lucas pulled this shit in the prequels by wedging jar jar binks into the last one, and you know what it has in common? Lucas and Microsoft are doing it as a big "Fuck You" to their respective audiences for refusing to accept what everyone but the author knew sucked. Saying "continuum is the future" is a strange way of saying, "Listening to your fucking customers is a novel approach microsoft is begrudgingly accepting piecemeal after a blinding 2 years of profit loss"
Good people go to bed earlier.
Thank you, Mr. Ballmer.
Seriously. It seems like Microsoft decides what are the systems that users should be working with and runs from there with no regard to what users are actually working with.
The biggest irony is that they don't seem to understand that the people who will have the biggest problem with what they are throwing out are developers. I can't imagine that Microsoft's own developers are running their own development systems on Windows 8.1 - I wouldn't be surprised if it were a dirty secret within Microsoft that application development takes place on Win7 (and maybe WinXP).
I understand the appeal of having one OS and UI for all devices but a Phone isn't a Tablet which isn't a laptop which isn't a desktop which isn't a server. And if you're a developer, requiring a touch screen hurts your productivity.
myke
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
Now they're just marketing doublespeak.
So true. When I saw the blurb about the 'charms bar' I immediately imagined an exclusive hipster cereal bar in San Francisco that exclusively served lucky charms cereal with organic unpasteurized milk. The flatware was reclaimed 1890s mining camp tin spoons, and the maitre'd was dressed like lucky the leprechaun.
I suppose we have that dumb fuck Balmer to thank for this....
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
What I still don't understand is how management, which is presumably comprised of older, more conservative, more experienced types, fell for the ridiculous idea of replacing the proven desktop metaphor with a tablet interface. (I'm assuming the idea was proposed by young, inexperienced marketers and junior executives.) What in the world was upper management thinking when they signed off on this, and why are they still working at microsoft after it's been proven a disaster?
Wow! HAHAHAHAHAH. No one could have predicted that one. Have you considered a career as a comedian or comedy writer? Everyone lives a good jokes like yours that are so fresh, original, and witty. It would be a real shame if you let that talent go to waste on Slashdot.
The screenshots of the Action Center and the Continuum are amazing! Wait, I'm not the only one not seeing any? Good, I didn't break my browser then...
Microsoft returns to the delusion that they can drop nearly 25 years of desktop productivity and working style with a wave of their magic wand and everyone will fall happily in line. Changes have to make sense, an offer an advantage, or they will never be adopted. Has Microsoft decided to completely concede the desktop space to Macintosh and Linux? The biggest strength of Windows for years has been that when you start a program, you know how to use it, even if you do not know what it actually does - F1 for help, File > open to get whatever you're working with as material,and other similar conventions that allowed users to go from one program to the next with a modicum of understanding of the tools, if not the functions. The Microsoft design team has gone deaf to the actual user, and it all about the science fiction interface. Funny how you never see anyone in those scifi images do anything for more than a minute at a time.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/... The real Windows 10! We fixed everything.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Now, waiting for Microsoft to get rid of those fugly Metro tiles attached to the desktop Start menu. This is a DESKTOP environment, not a phone or tablet.
How about practicing what you preach regarding Continuum?
And while you're at it, why not make the Start menu more functional and sensible? At least implement something from Stardock's Start8, Classic Shell or Vistart.
IF not, WHY not? Apple does it. WTF?
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
LOL. Nothing is certain, everything is subject to change.
The fullscreen start screen is still there for me and I can switch between small menu and big start.
Those names weren't Apple-ley enough I guess.
Hey, who woke up Billy G?
Time to go back to your retirement.
Lots of us use Linux on the Desktop.
Apple sold a lot of Mac's last year. Very profitable it was too.
Now why don't you explain exactly why you think that Apple should be worried by ANYTHING coming out of Redmond thee days?
No?
Thought not...
On the off chance your serious, my first reaction to the start screen was "good grief, look at all this shit I don't care about". Facebook (which I don't have), headlines and news I don't care about, a bunch of stuff I didn't even know what it was, etc. The whole thing struck me as a huge disorganized mess, way worse then even the messiest start menu or desktop. Maybe it gets better once you customize it, and maybe the default is useful to most users, but my initial impression was that it's shit.
Windows 8 and these screenshots look really ugly. Why the switch to every shape being super sharp and using a 4 bit color palette? Looks like something I could draw up in paint in a few minutes. At least Apple's designs are aesthetically pleasing. This just hurts your eyes.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
lipstick was 3 releases ago. now they are left with shoe polish.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
i've been running win10 on my primary dev desktop for months now and on an i3 laptop, and i can say, without a doubt, the best thing about it is the install.
i have yet to have to install a driver for anything, and everything "just works" right from the jump.
its a pretty amazing technical achievement, considering the size of the wintel environment.
never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
And I'm not talking about playing Punch Buggy!
Victory over Windows Day!
How do I turn all this crap off? I do not want "charms" or active notifications or dancing paper clips.
Just run all my programs fast and don't make me notice your interface. Why is that so hard?
You are welcome on my lawn.
You can iterate all over Windows 8 all you like Microsoft, it still looks like crap. If you want to go minimal with your metro style crap, go minimal. Stop adding complexity to the design. Either go minimal, or not. I don't care either way as I use osx and gnome far more than I use windows. But still, it looks to me as if they can't make up their minds about the design of it all.
Me Charms are gone! (*said in Irishest of accents)
In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
It's not at all clear to me what "Replacing the Charms bar is the Action center which has many of the same shortcuts as the Charms bar but also has a plethora of other information too." actually means.
If it means you still have to point your mouse to a corner and wait for a hidden window to magically appear, then it doesn't fix the major problem with the Charms bar.
If it means you have a bunch of options and settings that are only accessible from this hidden menu which you have no indication on the screen whether or not it exists, then it doesn't fix the major problem with the Charms bar.
If it means you only get a bunch of random icons with no label for what those icons mean, then it doesn't fix the second problem with the Charms bar.
Having a secondary OS Settings menu to complement the Start menu for programs isn't necessarily a poor design choice, but I am really concerned that they're not going to correct the fact that the theme of Windows 8 was to remove the user interface from the screen and magically expect the user to know what to do.
The road to tyranny has always been paved with claims of necessity.
Have you considered a career as anything other than a comment critic?
I love the new minimalist, flat look of Windows 8 and Windows 10. Windows XP, Vista and 7 all looked way too garish and cheesy. It's an operating system, not a video game.
yeah because learning MAC, an entire new eco system is going to be easier than learning about the incremental (although visually major) update to windows??
The Mac interface is a LOT closer to classic Windows (XP through 7) than Windows 8 is. I've transitioned plenty of people between OSX and Windows XP/Vista/7 in both directions. They're not all that different and transitioning between them isn't hard for most folks. I use both on a daily basis. Windows 8 is a HUGE departure in interface intended to merge touch screen and keyboard/mouse interfaces.
Personally I absolutely loathe Window 8. For me it is the most annoyingly unintuitive OS interface I've used in the last 20 years. Maybe it's fine on a tablet but I absolutely hate using it on a desktop.
All 3 remaining desktop linux users will be using Windows 10 shortly. I have not seen this much anticipation for a windows release in many many years. Hell, Apple should be shaking in their boots too.
Yeah, we seem to be entering a new era. I never thought I would say this, but as a long time Linux user I'm most likely switching. I played around with the Windows 10 Technical Preview (hey, it's free) and it gave me much better experience than any desktop Linux distro has in a long time.
Only if your filesystem has poor metadata support, which sadly, is quite common.
But I like the charms bar :(
That brown stuff isn't shoe polish.
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
I tried latest release of windows 10 and it's alright but nothing to brag about. Very very slow in vmware and virtualbox but it was never an issue with 8/8.1 early and final releases. Assigned 4 cores out of 6, 4gb out of 8gb ram, 512 vram out of 1gb. Windows 10 is mostly a cosmetic change than anything else. Do they really expect people to shell out another $100 - $300 for a new Windows. Upgrades will be free for the first year but imagine the size you have to freaking download and not everyone has fios.
Start Menu customization options still grayed out so I guess no transparencies or scaling the start menu size with the mouse like I have seen in videos.
Linux still beats Windows platform when it comes to skin theme and other DE customizations but fails miserably when it comes to the amount of A+ software, and stability(glitchy, buggy). Linux live usb/dvd's still awesome.
I installed kde in xubuntu and after removing the kde, for some reason, parts of it was still installed and the kde settings and software packages spilled over into the xfce and replaced some of my settings including skin themes. So now I had an xfce/kde hybrid desktop not working well. Weird and funny.
Thanks for falling into the racist slurs to really drive your point out to lunch and not come back.
:P
Hey, I bet if you gave our ancestors the new OS interface they'd totally freak!
In my opinion, if something works, why replace it with something that doesn't.
From what I read in the commentary of the people actually running Windows 10, it seems like Microsoft is just being true to form. Every second operating system must be crappy (8, Vista, ME). Perhaps the relatively good ones (allegedly 10,7, XP, 98) are so good that Microsoft know they have no justification in coming out with a new version, so they release whatever crappy tech toys they have bundled together as an OS rather than just tossing out the bad ideas.
I tested all the beta versions of 8 and told my IT community friends how absolutely stupid 8 was. I remember telling them the concept was great for tablets and phones, but not for the everyday work desktop. But the IT sheeple spit out the typical. Oh, your just resistant to change and the same old rethoric that sheeple where told to accept. Um, yeah...so not only did Windows 8 fail miserably. When Windows 8.1 came out you could now click on the start button. It brought back the metro apps. Really? How ***** dumb and blind can one be? I don't know, but you can ask him and see him dancing with his new basketball team, because he "resigned" from Microsoft after that. Yet, here they go again. Following Apple's model when clearly the Android market took over YEARS ago. In other words the people wanted a la cart. The newer generation of users are not like Apple users that want to be told to sit down, shut up, and do what we say. They want more freedom to be unique. So, this whole concept of unified OS is nice in a browser, but the whole OS across all devices. Get over it, that's the difference between and Apple, Windows, and Android user. It's kind of like New Coke. Someone had to be sitting at the exec table when they made New Coke, took a sip, thought it tasted like crap, but just smiled, and said, "Yep JP that's a good decision". FYI, Coke never regained top dog of soda after that seriously stupid move. Not mention "original Coke" was brought back. Ah-ha! Some people will have Windows 10 forced on them, some people will give into Windows 10 out of convenience, and the majority will just hang to Windows 7 like they did XP. If they were really smart Microsoft could make a business/pro version of this. With an extra $20 charge or so, you would have the option to get the start button. People would actually pay to keep it and Microsoft could make what they want..more money. I'm telling you I don't care how many sheeples blindly jump on the bandwagon. The modern consumer will talk with their money, by not buying it. Unless, they make some sort of option. They will make more failsauce like Windows 8, Windows 8.1,.....and now Windows 10?
Because cheap phones can not do a full palette
All 3 remaining desktop linux users will be using Windows 10 shortly. I have not seen this much anticipation for a windows release in many many years. Hell, Apple should be shaking in their boots too.
Why? OS X's UI is simply light-years ahead of anything that has come out of Redmond. Ever. And that is even with the fact that it has seen relatively minor FUNDAMENTAL changes (compared with Windows) over the decades that both OSes have been in existence.
Seriously. You can place someone who hasn't touched a Mac in 30 years in front of Yosemite, and I GUARANTEE they will be comfortable FAR before someone who last saw Windows 3.11 and is now in front of Windows 8.1
Microsoft are still putting silly tiles into the start menu. Why on earth does a desktop user want silly tiles in the start menu ?
The first thing I tried to do on installing windows 10 tech preview was try and remove them and get the start menu looking more like windows 7's which i think is quite clean.
Cat exists under Linux.
You can do that natively :
make a box :
if (( RANDOM % 2 )); then echo "Cat is dead">/tmp/Box; else echo "Cat is alive">/tmp/Box; fi
open the box :
cat /tmp/Box
aaaaaaa
Glory and Honor to Senator Binks of the Naboo!
the start menu still contains a mini start screen. George Lucas pulled this shit in the prequels by wedging jar jar binks into the last one, and you know what it has in common? Lucas and Microsoft are doing it as a big "Fuck You" to their respective audiences for refusing to accept what everyone but the author knew sucked. Saying "continuum is the future" is a strange way of saying, "Listening to your fucking customers is a novel approach microsoft is begrudgingly accepting piecemeal after a blinding 2 years of profit loss"
Huh - 2 years of profit loss eh?
http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/2...
I'm no friend of MS, but you really need to work on your facts. The rest of your comment I can agree with.
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
For the same reason that the iPad wins out over Android: it's all about the apps. Windows 10 will match and largely exceed the speed, security, ease of use and compatibility of OS X and Lin-sux, while at the same time allowing end users a full compliment of applications for every conceivable use including of course GAMES GAMES and more GAMES. Apple and Linus Torballs should be scared shitless.
Everywhere I worked in those days, there was Win98 on desktops throughout the corporations. Only the engineers and developers ran NT anywhere I worked.
Of course we're talking a period where "networking" meant file and printer sharing and nothing more.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
I'm sticking with Windows 7.
It is not as if we must have the 'start' menu, or even a work-like or work-similar functionality. What fills us with dread is that the new Windows 10 UI is likely to be difficult and time-wasting to use...and since Windows is ubiquitous...we will likely be using it anyway. We, all of us, use a variety of digital UIs every day...the dashboard on our car, the screen on our home entertainment system, our smart phone, kitchen appliances, etc. Most of these are fairly simple and intuitive to use...simple enough that we don't give them a second thought. That's the point, here. Windows 8 is NOT simple or intuitive. It is painful, irritating, and time-wasting. That 'start' menu was nothing special as a UI feature. It was actually very poor...beginning with the obvious conflict between clicking on 'start' to perform a 'shutdown.' But...we were used to it. We were familiar with it. There's nothing wrong with a new UI if it is good as in 'powerful,' 'simple,' 'easy,' and 'fast.' The first iPhone (and ipod touch) was radically different from anything that had gone before it but it was a very good UI and people were able to use it effectively after just a few minutes. The Windows 8 UI, on the other hand, requires a book with screenshots in one hand and a smartphone with tips in the other hand to really accomplish anything for a first-timer. So...Windows 10, whatever it ends up being, will be carrying a lot of baggage to the rollout. Know that Microsoft.
Because screenshots show the GUI, which should be interchangeable with any of a multitude of interactive experiences to fit the needs of the user. Microsoft should market GUIs separately from their OS because if they are revamping the kernel every few years I wouldn't touch that security and reliability hazard with a 50ft pole.
I'm happy you're upset. It gives me great joy to know that people who liked the start screen are being fucked over by this. Much like when politicians, lawyers, or government employees get the shaft, this bestows upon my heart a warm glow. I can only hope that the other idiotic things you like slowly, but inexorably, continue to fade to the realms of discarded technology. In fact, I think Microsoft should hire you as a sort of stupidity canary. Anything you like, anything you think of as a good idea, should be abandoned before it can be unleashed upon humanity. God speed, brave sir.
they want me to go to their store and buy every little update and app for some extra fee.
Think of it this way: If you were distributing software for home users, how would you recover the cost of making and testing updates to correct security vulnerabilities? I'm interested in what you'd recommend other than charging for updates after several years.
It's an operating system, not a video game.
It's a video game. The Start screen appeared in Xbox 360 before Windows 8.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I want to know who decides to break things that used to work (I am mainly complaining about keyboard shortcuts) for no reason?
I can't remember if it was vista or 7, but one used to be able to type "windows key -> r" and get the run box. Handy for anything anywhere (cmd, \\somethingorother). Me being a good doggie, I could do this without thinking of it as I probably typed this sequence thousands of times over the years.
But not with vista or 7. They broke it. Some smarty pants at Microsoft said "You can mash them together and get the same thing!". Sounds great, execpt its not the same. Still pissed about that one. What I couldn't understand was why they took it away? WTF? Its not like the replaced the same keyboard shortcut with a new result - they just killed the old one.
Now with 8.x and windows 2012/R2 you can't use more keyboard shortcuts. In explorer, trying typing alt, v, l to switch to list view in Windows 8 or 2012, and you won't get to change your view. Why? It's not like that sequence does something different? You can type alt, v and it gives you the view menu, but now I have to f-ing click on the view I want? WTF? Who okays these changes at MS? Why aren't they fired?
OI!
They still don't understand that the damn thing should be OPTIONAL so the user can decide.
....====>>>>>APAKAH ANDA TERMASUK DALAM KATEGORI INI
1: DILILIT HUTANG
2: SELALU KALAH DALAM BERMAIN TOGEL
3: BUTUH MODAL DALAM BUKA USAHA
5: BARANG BERHARGA ANDA SUDAH HABIS
BUAT JUDI TOGEL
ANDA SUDAH KEMANA MANA TAPI TIDAK MENDAPATKAN
Jangan Anda Putus Asa...Karna anda sudah berada di kata kata yang sangat tepat,
Mbah akan membantu anda dengan angka ritual Mbah...
Pengakuan tulus dari Saya Yunita TKW bekerja di malaysia. Saya mau mengucapkan terima ksih yang tidak terhingga, serta penghargaan dan rasa kagum yg setinggi-tingginya kepada MBAH DIMAS KANJENG, saya sudah bekerja sebagai TKW selama 7 tahun di malaysia,dengan gaji kurang lebih 1.5jt/bln,tidak cukup untuk memenuhi kebutuhan sehari-hari,apalagi setiap bulan harus mengirimkan ke orang tua di jawa, sudah lama saya mengetahui roomnya om ini, juga sudah lama mendengar nama besar MBAH,tapi saya termasuk orang yg tidak terlalu percaya dengan hal ghoib, jadi saya pikir ini pasti kerjaan orang iseng yg mau menipu. tetapi kemarin waktu pengeluaran 7609 , saya benar-benar tidak percaya dan hampir pingsang,angka yang diberi MBAH DIMAS KANJENG 7609 ternyata tembus, awalnya saya coba-coba menelpon, saya bilang saya terlantar di malaysia, tidak ada ongkos pulang,terus beliau bantu kasih angka 7609. mulanya saya tidak percaya,mana mungkin angka ini keluar, tapi dengan penuh pengharapan saya pasangin kali 100 lembar, sisa gaji bulan Januari, ternyata meledakæ.!!! dapat BLT 250jt, sekali lagi terima kasih banyak MBAH DIMAS, saya sudah kapok kerja jadi TKW, rencana minggu depan mau pulang aja ke Jawa Timur.buat MBAH, saya tidak akan lupa bantuan dan budi baik MBAH. yang ingin merubah nasib seperti saya silahkan hub MBAH DIMAS KANJENG di nomor. 082 277 277 370 {.Demikian kisah nyata dari saya tanpa rekayasa.}
MBAH DIMAS KANJENG
NO TELPON/HP : >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>082277277370
Too late. MS wasn't just wrong with Windows 8 they were rude about it.
The single biggest gripe I have with Windows is that I frequently lose state: I usually have lots of programs and files open. When a Windows update requires a reboot, I lose all of this so I have to spend time reopening apps, finding which files I was working on and reopening them.
Apple has figured this out for OS X, and Microsoft planned it as a feature of Windows 7. I've seen no mention of this for Windows 10. What's keeping them so long?
So much opinion masquerading as fact. Incredible. You should probably stay out of these threads, as all you seem to do is harp on about OSX like your life depends on it, which seems a bit desperate. I feel bad for you if you have to hang out in Windows threads to make yourself feel better by pointing out to everyone why they're retarded and you (and your OS of choice) is awesome.
Just accept that you are you, and others are others. What you like might not be what they like, and vice versa. Getting all upset because not everyone agrees with you is only serving to make you look like a jealous school kid, regardless of whether that is true or not, or maybe some sort of egocentric lunatic who simply can not fathom why others might disagree with them.
I was under the impression that even automakers had a statute of limitations for product defects. Or would someone have grounds to sue Ford over a defect in the Model T?
You can't even do ctrl-alt-del on a Mac.
The equivalent on a mac is Command-Option-Esc which is identical to pretty much every unix system out there.
Really, the interface is weird and dated.
Right. Apple sells millions of these things thanks to their "weird and dated" interface. Clearly that is a huge problem for them.
I thought the summary said they killed the Start Menu (again!!!) If they did that, then how the holy heck did you not notice it being any different than Windows 7??!!
Or is this a case of the summary exaggerating the change to get us to click?
So much opinion masquerading as fact. Incredible.
If we collectively removed all the comments on /. that fall into that category, there would only be about 10 comments-per-article. Plus, I don't think I ever claimed that my post was pure "fact". Of COURSE it is my opinion; that's what makes Slashdot, er, Slashdot... Next!
You should probably stay out of these threads, as all you seem to do is harp on about OSX like your life depends on it, which seems a bit desperate. I feel bad for you if you have to hang out in Windows threads to make yourself feel better by pointing out to everyone why they're retarded and you (and your OS of choice) is awesome.
Ah, now you are assuming that I don't have a dog in this fight. You would be wrong.
I currently am employed developing custom application software for a Microsoft-owned ERP package, and so spend every workday (at least!) using various Microsoft OSes and other software products. I am, for instance, typing this on my work laptop, a Sammy that runs W7 (which, like most Slashdotters, I am fairly happy with, OS-wise).
I deal on a daily basis with MS Server installs from Server 2003 through Server 2012 R2 at my office and at client sites. I occasionally have to interact with Windows 8 on co-worker's computers.
And before this job, I have had to run Windows at work (at least) clear back to W 3.10 and NT 3.51 in various Development jobs.
So, I think most people reading these words would agree that I am fully qualified to give an "Expert Opinion" on the various pros and cons of various Windows and MacOS versions up through the years.
In contrast, you will NEVER see me even attempt to chime in on various Linux distros, UIs, etc; because I have little to no experience with that platform.
Just accept that you are you, and others are others. What you like might not be what they like, and vice versa. Getting all upset because not everyone agrees with you is only serving to make you look like a jealous school kid, regardless of whether that is true or not, or maybe some sort of egocentric lunatic who simply can not fathom why others might disagree with them.
As I stated above, I happen to have deep and daily experience with nearly every version of Windows, both "desktop" and "server", since W3.10 to W8 and NT3.51 to Server 2012 R2, as well as deep and daily experience with every version of MacOS and OS X, since System 1.0 to OS X 10.9 (haven't loaded Yosemite yet). Can you claim the same?
So I am FAR from the "jealous school kid" you try to make me out to be.
Oh, and speaking of "Hanging out in (other platform's threads)" (even though I believe I have amply demonstrated my "bona fides" to be in this thread, above), if we removed all the comments from the Linux and Windows fans that contiually Apple-bash in "Apple threads" on Slashdot (but, unlike you and me, usually masquerading as ACs, instead of putting their Karma on the line like us adults (not jealous school kids)), again, we'd have a pretty lonely site.
Afterall, controversy is what drives this site, to a very large extent; and that ain't going away on ANY front any time soon...
Got it? Good!
vista
vista sp1
vista sp2
vista sp3 (aka windows 7)
vista sp4 (aka windows 7 sp1)
vista sp5 (aka windows 8)
vista sp6 (aka windows 8.1)
vista sp7 (aka windows 8.1 Update1)
NT7 (aka windows 10)
Some of us use windows for work, so haven't seen any of this shit, and are unlikely to.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"