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What Happens When the "Sharing Economy" Meets Higher Education

jyosim writes Professors now make big bucks teaching in educational marketplaces. Sites that let anyone teach courses might just change the way people think about the value of education, about the nature of expertise, and about what teaching is worth. From the article: "When Nick Walter graduated with an information-systems degree, he intended to start his own tech company to create the next big iPhone app, as so many twenty-somethings have tried in recent years. But then something dawned on him: He could make more money teaching. He set up a free account on a site called Udemy, which lets anyone teach online courses and charge for them, and then uploaded a series of lecture videos and exercises showing other people how to make apps. Walter had no experience teaching, no affiliation with a university or accredited educational institution, and—by his own admission—no particular gifts as a computer-science student. But that doesn’t matter to Udemy, or to any of a number of similar platforms that have emerged in recent years."

94 comments

  1. Big bucks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Big bucks, eh? I guess it depends on what your definition of big bucks is. If you mean barely scraping by with a family of 4, then I guess big bucks it is.

    1. Re:Big bucks? by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

      You obviously didn't read the article. They are talking about non salaried teachers making up to 20k in a single day
      selling online courses. The summary is a bit deceiving though. The article actually talks about someone who isn't
      even a professor but just a random guy with a 4 year degree who started making videos.

    2. Re:Big bucks? by Lab+Rat+Jason · · Score: 2

      What I'm hearing is that making apps pays worse than teaching people to make apps. By comparison yes, it's a triumph. But to everyone else with a real job...

      --
      Which has more power: the hammer, or the anvil?
    3. Re:Big bucks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I work for a University IT, and run the budget reports. There isn't a single professor making under 6 figures ( this obviously doesn't include the slave labor of "associate" professors, but at this school, they only make up a small portion of the teaching). Add in the "required" *NEW AND IMPROVED* version 146 of calculus book that students HAVE to buy because we changed 4 problems, that just happens to be written by the head of the math department.... yeah, I have little pity for most professors claiming to be underpaid.

    4. Re:Big bucks? by i.r.id10t · · Score: 1

      Perhaps because in order to make $ off an app you have to have *the* app to do it wiht... and while a lot of us can code, not that many have a great idea for something that will get someone to pay a few bucks for it.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    5. Re:Big bucks? by Pascoea · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's the same theory as a gold rush. The guy selling buckets and shovels is going to make more money than 99% of the people that go there to dig up gold.

    6. Re:Big bucks? by Lab+Rat+Jason · · Score: 2

      I absolutely agree. Coming up with the idea is harder than implementing it. Which actually speaks to another interesting thing: He has no way to protect what he is doing... he's first to market, which is why he's making cash hand over fist... but that's going to evaporate in about 2.5 seconds when other people who are equally smart go out and undercut him on price for their own tutorials... and eventually you will get that high quality education for free from YouTube. So hopefully he milks it for as long as he can, because there are plenty of people who are better coders/more charismatic/whatever trait sells... that are willing to take a piece of that pie.

      --
      Which has more power: the hammer, or the anvil?
    7. Re:Big bucks? by Lab+Rat+Jason · · Score: 1

      LOL I wish I could mod this up, but I've already commented here. Dead right!

      --
      Which has more power: the hammer, or the anvil?
    8. Re:Big bucks? by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      $20k a day, or $20k, once, on sales for a particularly timely topic?

      $20k a day sounds great, $20k, once every 2-4 months, less costs and overhead, sounds pretty pedestrian.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    9. Re:Big bucks? by blue+trane · · Score: 2

      Is he first to market? MOOCs offer app-writing classes for free.

    10. Re:Big bucks? by JackieBrown · · Score: 2

      20K every 2-4 month is big bucks.

    11. Re:Big bucks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      20K every 2-4 month is big bucks.

      $60-$120K/year for a quality STEM lecturer is not big bucks.

    12. Re:Big bucks? by Lab+Rat+Jason · · Score: 1

      I haven't seen this guy's material, but I got the impression that his work was a big improvement over the super-generic MOOC offerings. Maybe he wasn't first to market, but at least he's in a rarefied market now, and because there is no protection for it... it won't be rarefied for long.

      --
      Which has more power: the hammer, or the anvil?
    13. Re:Big bucks? by just_a_monkey · · Score: 1, Funny

      So you're saying there are campaign contributions to be had for politicians stepping in and "protecting" this market...

      --
      How inappropriate to call this planet Earth, when clearly it is Ocean.
    14. Re:Big bucks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and the taxpays are stuck with the bill when the loans default.

    15. Re:Big bucks? by Lab+Rat+Jason · · Score: 0

      You'll make a fine young capitalist!

      --
      Which has more power: the hammer, or the anvil?
    16. Re:Big bucks? by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

      20K every two months is in the range for Senior Software Engineers here in the Portland, OR Area. In the absolute sense, this is "big bucks" as it's above the median salary in the US. On the other hand, if it's what I'm getting paid for doing now? Not so much.

      The perception of "big bucks" has three components - a higher salary, less effort, or more security/less risk for future payment streams. Coming up with compelling video presentations on various subjects seems to achieve none of these.

      --
      That is all.
    17. Re:Big bucks? by Tom · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This.

      He went to give courses in a gold rush topic at the gold rush time. Don't think you can get anywhere near his success teaching Programming in C++ or Knitting or whatever. I'm not saying you can't make a buck, but the story is about being in the right place at the right time more than about online education.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    18. Re:Big bucks? by jythie · · Score: 2

      20k/day until, like the App Store, the service gets saturated.

    19. Re:Big bucks? by jythie · · Score: 3, Informative

      Mileage will vary greatly here. I know plenty of tenured professors making making in the 40-60 range which, while not bad, is far from 6 figures. Professors who work for MBA/Law/Tech oriented schools (within a university) tend to be pretty well paid, but the money can be pretty bad outside that band.

    20. Re:Big bucks? by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      Why should someone else get to define what big bucks are?

  2. in 'Murica... by OrugTor · · Score: 0

    caveat emptor.

  3. In what universe? by meustrus · · Score: 4, Funny

    But then something dawned on him: He could make more money teaching.

    What? You lost me there.

    --
    I sometimes ask revealing, often ignorant-seeming questions. Maybe they're harder to answer than you think.
    1. Re:In what universe? by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      You can make a lot of money in education, Just as long as you are not in the teachers Union.
      No this isn't about being Anti-Union. But the fact the Union tries to protect the member, they offer less risk in a teaching career, however as a non-member there is a lot more risk of failure, so you get more reward. So if you want a job and you don't get fired for giving billy the son of the mayor an F because he didn't do his homework all semester, then union protection is important. However if you are willing to risk the politics and have the option of total failure, then you will probably make more money out of it.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:In what universe? by oodaloop · · Score: 0

      Your sig is spot on. Your comment does indeed seem ignorant. Now go RTFA.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    3. Re:In what universe? by meustrus · · Score: 1

      It does make sense that there is money to be made in education. But I've never known anybody who says to themselves, "Gee, you know who makes money hand over fist? Teachers!"

      --
      I sometimes ask revealing, often ignorant-seeming questions. Maybe they're harder to answer than you think.
  4. Misunderstanding of Higher Education Economics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The summary (though not the article) begins on the assumption that professors make big bucks. That may have been true at one point, but it's certainly not true now. Yes, full-time tenure track faculty average close to six figures annually, but only 27% of university instructors are full-time or tenure-tracked[1]. The remaining 73% or so is made up of adjunct faculty, who typically earn somewhere between $20-25k annually[2]. So, the idea that the sharing economy is going to be able to massively bring down educational costs by putting market pressure on faculty salaries doesn't really hold up. That market pressure was already there, and faculty salaries are already in the toilet. I'm not sure salaries can go down further without those teachers exiting the market entirely.

    It's probably also worth mentioning, the vast majority of traditional (and non-traditional) students don't really go to an educational institute just to learn (though, it would be nice if they were to learn too). Students usually go to those institutions for a recognized credential or degree. Even if you're obtaining excellent instruction from the Internet, you're not going to get that degree. The real scarcity isn't teachers at the university level (as demonstrated by super-low wages for adjuncts). The real thing that keeps prices up is the artificial monopoly created by accreditation systems.

    And, that might not entirely be a bad thing. Four year universities usually try to create well-rounded students, who learn much more than they'd ever need in their personal career. Students often complain about having to take classes they don't care about, but being broadly educated does seem to make individuals more open minded to solutions to problems that are not necessarily within their usual field of vision. If students could pick and choose their own courses, they'd rarely get that broad-view approach.

    In short: this new app might be fine, but it won't revolutionize higher education in any meaningful fashion.

    [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01...
    [2] http://www.npr.org/2013/09/22/...

    1. Re:Misunderstanding of Higher Education Economics by i.r.id10t · · Score: 2

      FWIW I get paid about $700 per credit hour per semester to teach as an adjunct... IF you don't go crazy with course design, grading assignments, etc. you can do a good job in about 8 hours per week for a 3 credit course so it works out to about $20/hr over the term.

      Do it wrong, and you'll sink a ton of hours into it though. Teaching 20 students is a lot less work than tutoring 20 students...

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    2. Re:Misunderstanding of Higher Education Economics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Assuming you're working full-time as an adjunct, and you're doing 8 hours a week per course, you'd need to find 5 courses per term of teaching to be working full time. Most of the time as an adjunct, a single institution won't give you 5 courses a semester as an adjunct (usually because they would have to give you health benefits). So, presumably, you're having to have work at 2-3 different institutions to maintain a full-time load, which often means increased commute time due to having to travel to multiple job sites on the same day, or travel substantial distances to get to the various institutions that hire you. Not to mention the work of finding work.

      Yes, the university is paying you about $17.50 an hour for the work you do for them, but the structure of the employment is such that you have to do extra unpaid work in order to have adjuncting as a full-time job. So compensation per time spent on your career is almost certainly lower than $17.50. It's probably closer to $15, which is what left argues minimum wage should probably be these days. Keeping in mind that adjuncts usually have some graduate education, this isn't exactly a high-paying industry.

    3. Re:Misunderstanding of Higher Education Economics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yikes! I thought I was underpaid as an adjunct making $900/credit hour. I did the math, and factoring in benefits, I actually made more per credit hour while TAing as a graduate student. I stopped doing it (though am officially still listed as an adjunct with my university) because it wasn't worth the time investment, and I make a whole heck of a lot more coding.

    4. Re:Misunderstanding of Higher Education Economics by Sarlok · · Score: 2

      The 27% in your first article is full-time tenure-track. The remaining 73% does include adjuncts, but there are also full-time non tenure-track positions, such as a yearly contract. I know because I have a friend in academia that has been doing those positions for a several years now. He at least is paid decently as a full-time position, but he has to essentially reapply every year and doesn't get paid as well as tenure-track positions. Several of those spots have been truly temporary positions (a permanent faculty on sabbatical or something), so he is pretty much job searching every year.

    5. Re:Misunderstanding of Higher Education Economics by sandytaru · · Score: 1

      Correction: Full time, already tenured professors who have been teaching for a few decades might hit close to six figures. Tenure-track, or just-tenured professors are usually in the 50K-60K range. Still better than the adjuncts, but still not as much, adjusted for inflation, as my father made processing medical records in the '80s. (Source: I'm married to a tenured professor. I sure wish he was making close to six figures....)

      --
      Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    6. Re:Misunderstanding of Higher Education Economics by supercrisp · · Score: 1

      I'm an assistant professor, the lowest rank. And I'm in the humanities My salary is just very slightly over $50k. I am paid more than most of my colleagues because my institution was bidding against another similar institution. A starting humanities prof will earn in the mid-40s, as of now. A few years ago it was the low 40s. I'm getting the numbers based on what I know about several R1s, one very, very well-endowed, and from lesser schools. Event at the highest rank, I--and my colleagues at peer institutions--will never see six figures. I don't have any polemical intent. This is just FYI because I hear crazy figures thrown around. In the humanities, you have to hold a quite well-supported endowed chair to hit six figures. I know it's different in STEM. At my school, which is more or less bankrupt, a lot of the STEM folks start in the mid 70s.

  5. No experience teaching no particular gift for it by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

    And a great gift for fooling students ?

    He could get tenure at most universities

  6. Big surprise by penguinoid · · Score: 1

    Turns out that producing a product worth thousands (a piece of college-level education) is worth more than producing a random app of worth a couple dollars and which might be a flop.

    And good for him. Thanks to his efforts, we're one little step closer to education actually being free to everyone (instead of merely subsidized by taxpayers and limited to people of the correct nationality).

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    1. Re:Big surprise by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      This is the point that all those "Ask Slashdot - I'm about to get laid off at my job and I hear there's big money in making apps. I have no programming experience but I have an idea, so how can I get it done in less than 6 months" fail to get. The app gold rush is well and truly dead, and the way to make money is to milk the suckers.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    2. Re:Big surprise by gnupun · · Score: 1

      Turns out that producing a product worth thousands (a piece of college-level education) is worth more than producing a random app of worth a couple dollars and which might be a flop.

      But now that the secret's out, won't Udemy be flooded with lectures by people wanting to make $1,000 a day? Programming a 99 cents app is a lot harder than making a lecture about some easy subject.

    3. Re:Big surprise by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      But now that the secret's out, won't Udemy be flooded with lectures by people wanting to make $1,000 a day?

      I hope so! More education available in a format that can be infinitely reproduced at near zero marginal cost will put some bounds on the cost and quality of traditional education, as they will be rightly afraid of losing business if they don't perform.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    4. Re:Big surprise by just_a_monkey · · Score: 2

      Until Khan and these other shareducators get the ability to issue actual degrees, this won't matter that much. In many career jobs, you have to have a degree. Just knowing your stuff will only get you so far. (Also, it is easy for HR to see if you have a degree or not. It is hard for them to know if you are any good, but no-one has ever been fired for hiring some-one with a degree. So HR departments will prefer to require degrees.)

      --
      How inappropriate to call this planet Earth, when clearly it is Ocean.
    5. Re:Big surprise by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      Kind of like the "flipping houses" gold rush. As a property manager, part of my job is to buy houses that some poor sucker bought and sunk tens of thousands of dollars into and is now worth maybe $1,000 more than when he bought it. The people really making a killing are the lecturers who go around the country selling "programs" on how to flip houses.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    6. Re:Big surprise by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      The job of educators is to educate people, not make life simple for some company's HR department.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    7. Re:Big surprise by narcc · · Score: 1

      It won't happen. With a flood of idiots making 'educational videos' looking to turn a quick buck, you're going to end up with a lot of nonsense. You won't find an accrediting body willing to overlook that.

    8. Re:Big surprise by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Ditto with all those "Believe your way to success" self-improvement scams. The big hook is that, if you do this right, you too can make money teaching others how to improve themselves. I've had friends fall for these stupidities, and a few times it's gotten to the point of just letting them do it instead of trying to talk some sense into them, because people get angry when you throw water on their "get-rich the easy way" schemes.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  7. Sharing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is being shared here? Can I just provide any full-time for-profit service, call it "the sharing economy", and land on Slashdot?

    1. Re:Sharing? by gnupun · · Score: 2

      I guess "sharing" sounds a lot better than "low-priced amateur products."

    2. Re:Sharing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess "sharing" sounds a lot better than "low-priced amateur products."

      But at least without prior experience in neither teaching nor the specific subject it's at least higher education.

  8. A teacher with misc. experience by myid · · Score: 1

    I don't know how much he gets paid, but here are the qualifications for the ed2go "Mac, iPhone, and iPad Programming" teacher:

    Wallace Wang is the author of more than 40 computer books including Microsoft Office 2010 For Dummies. In addition to writing computer books, he has co-authored Breaking Into Acting for Dummies and has ghostwritten several books about investing in real estate, day trading stocks, and becoming an entrepreneur. His past jobs have included teaching computer science courses at the University of Zimbabwe, performing stand-up comedy, and appearing on a weekly radio show.

    (Most programming ed2go teachers are more qualified that that.)

  9. Goodbye college football by wcrowe · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Forty years ago there were people out there, sci-fi writers and others, who envisioned that this was how all education would eventually be done, from elementary school all the way through college. They seemed to sense that the television and computer and telephone would somehow be put together to create a learning environment. The entire idea sounded fantastic to me.

    When I got out of high school I joined the Navy and went through avionics school. The school was computer-driven and self-paced, and I loved it. For once I didn't have to be held back in classes that had to be taught to the level of the lowest common denominator. I remember thinking that I wish all education was like this.

    Now the technology is here to create these kind of learning environments for nearly everyone, and it's affordable. I think that traditional universities, and even high schools and elementary schools, will eventually go away. We're seeing the beginnings of that now.

    If I live long enough, I suppose I will miss college football, but in the long run, this is the best thing for education.

    --
    Proverbs 21:19
    1. Re:Goodbye college football by hibiki_r · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Schools will probably not go away quickly, as there is plenty of value in learning socialization, and kids will not learn that by sitting at home in front of a computer.

      Schools are moving towards having some of that kind of learning though. Take, for instance, elementary school math. You have a bunch of kids coming in at K or 1st grade, which have drastically different experience and skill levels. Some kids will barely be able to count to 10, and read small numbers. Others enter K understanding multiplication and division. And yet traditionally, we put them in the same class, and teach them math together.

      Now we have computer systems that can throw math exercises and lessons to kids, individualized to their skill level. So when the kindergartener that should be in 4th grade, seems to never miss at counting and number recognition, he just keeps getting more challenging material, until he's quickly doing 4th grade math.

    2. Re:Goodbye college football by dcollins · · Score: 1

      The evidence is phenomenally consistent that the online self-paced stuff works great for professional people who've mastered college-level skills in reading, writing, and math... but falls on its face for people who don't have that. For example, every attempt at getting the horde of people who need algebra remediation through online course has been a disaster. UDacity tried it at San Jose state and was suspended after one semester. Community colleges in Philadelphia tried it and concluded "The failure rates were so high that it seemed almost unethical to offer the option". So I highly doubt you can replace elementary/secondary schools with this method; at that level, most student need a personal face and hand-holding through the material, especially with technical stuff like using, interpreting, and debugging online resources in the first place.

      http://www.angrymath.com/2013/06/online-remedial-courses-considered.html
      http://www.angrymath.com/2013/07/san-jose-state-suspends-udacity.html

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    3. Re:Goodbye college football by dcollins · · Score: 2

      This has been the dream for, like, a century now... but schools are simply not structured to permit that. Actually about 20 years ago in the USA we/they doubled-down on the issue; the phrase "tracking students" into different classes or programs by ability was effectively prohibited everywhere, and is considered inequitable, immoral, and kind of offensive to even mention in many educational circles. The standard response in recent decades is that the bright kids should spend their time group-tutoring the slower kids.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    4. Re:Goodbye college football by wcrowe · · Score: 1

      I'm sure they won't go away quickly -- probably not in my lifetime -- but I do think they will evolve into something radically different from what they are now.

      --
      Proverbs 21:19
    5. Re:Goodbye college football by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      FWIW, my son (now about 20) did wind up in special programs, particularly in high school. The high school program he was in was specifically aimed at college prep, and he graduated high school with over half the college credits he needed to graduate (which didn't mean he finished in two years, because a lot of them were in places that didn't count much towards graduation, but did give him junior priority in scheduling classes). The Minneapolis Public School System has its failings, but it does provide different opportunities for different abilities.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    6. Re: Goodbye college football by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Shareducation" had been around for years. its called books. education isn't going anywhere. the point is that educational materials and schools did and will continue to serve different purposes. end of story, nothing to see here.

    7. Re:Goodbye college football by rdnetto · · Score: 1

      The evidence is phenomenally consistent that the online self-paced stuff works great for professional people who've mastered college-level skills in reading, writing, and math... but falls on its face for people who don't have that. For example, every attempt at getting the horde of people who need algebra remediation through online course has been a disaster. UDacity tried it at San Jose state and was suspended after one semester. Community colleges in Philadelphia tried it and concluded "The failure rates were so high that it seemed almost unethical to offer the option". So I highly doubt you can replace elementary/secondary schools with this method; at that level, most student need a personal face and hand-holding through the material, especially with technical stuff like using, interpreting, and debugging online resources in the first place.

      http://www.angrymath.com/2013/06/online-remedial-courses-considered.html
      http://www.angrymath.com/2013/...

      I think there is a bit of selection bias here. Each course has pre-requisite knowledge, and I suspect a large part of the reason people can struggle with a course (and therefore need a remedial course) is because they don't have a solid grasp of the assumed knowledge. This is especially true for subjects like math, where all the different subdisciplines are inter-connected (e.g. consider how often log and trig laws turn up in calculus).

      This problem arises partly because students are not held back a year if they perform poorly in one or two subjects, but are then assumed to have the same knowledge as everyone else in the year. The primary advantage of an online system is that the content can be tailored to each student. e.g. you can force a student to re-do a unit of math until they are able to pass without impacting their ability to take higher level units in other subjects.

      Of course, this doesn't in any way negate the need for one-on-one time with remedial students. But by automating the more repetitive parts of the knowledge transfer process, it frees up the educator to spend more one-on-one time with struggling students.

      There are also issues with the increased need for students to have self-motivation and drive, but I suspect it would be beneficial to imbue them with those traits from a young age anyway.

      --
      Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
  10. Beware the Do vs Teach dilemma by PseudoCoder · · Score: 4, Insightful

    More than half of my engineering curriculum was taught by prolific researchers who couldn't teach worth a damn. I was a tutor through most of college and found myself "reteaching" a lot of the stuff they would teach to others who came looking for help. Not because I was bright, see I struggled to understand the same topics, but I was able to break the topics down in a way that made more sense. Tying "building block" concepts progressively, until the process showed the complete picture, at which point I could teach them to myself for my own understanding, and then to others. That's when I realized good teachers require the whole package of skills; proficiency in their subject and a mind to educate by facilitating the process of connecting concepts.

    Sounds like a good place for a free market to open up. What teaching is worth should lean heavily on a feedback/review framework like Amazon's such that people don't end up paying for a class that sucks, by every student's experience, because the professor can't communicate concepts, or communicate at all. Like the time I spent almost weeks trying to figure out what the foreigner in my Space Systems course meant by "papamaaa". By the way, that's "performance".

    --
    "Now, I doubt any of you would prefer a rolled up newspaper as a weapon against a dictator or a criminal intruder."
    1. Re:Beware the Do vs Teach dilemma by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >More than half of my engineering curriculum was taught by prolific researchers who couldn't teach worth a damn.

      Sounds like you went to a research university.

      There's two types of post-secondary institutions, speaking in terms of STEM: research institutions and teaching institutions. The former have outstanding research opportunities on the bleeding edge and students have the opportunity to talk to and work with the best and brightest people in the world in their field but the quality of the undergraduate (and even post-graduate) teaching tends to be uneven, to put it mildly. The latter focuses on providing a quality education to its undergraduates but advanced courses tend to be sparse, if available at all, resulting in a rather limited perspective in its graduates.

    2. Re:Beware the Do vs Teach dilemma by m00sh · · Score: 1

      More than half of my engineering curriculum was taught by prolific researchers who couldn't teach worth a damn. I was a tutor through most of college and found myself "reteaching" a lot of the stuff they would teach to others who came looking for help. Not because I was bright, see I struggled to understand the same topics, but I was able to break the topics down in a way that made more sense. Tying "building block" concepts progressively, until the process showed the complete picture, at which point I could teach them to myself for my own understanding, and then to others. That's when I realized good teachers require the whole package of skills; proficiency in their subject and a mind to educate by facilitating the process of connecting concepts.

      Sounds like a good place for a free market to open up. What teaching is worth should lean heavily on a feedback/review framework like Amazon's such that people don't end up paying for a class that sucks, by every student's experience, because the professor can't communicate concepts, or communicate at all. Like the time I spent almost weeks trying to figure out what the foreigner in my Space Systems course meant by "papamaaa". By the way, that's "performance".

      Let me guess, you didn't do well in the classes and you've found it very convenient to blame the professor's accent for your failures.

      Just kidding, LOL.

      We're in college, there is the internet. You don't need professors of a skill of a stand up comedian to keep you entertained for 3 hours/week. Don't look at the professor for learning, the most important aspect is your classmates. Take classes with your friends or make new friends. You'll do well, you'll have fun and learn a lot. Just don't expect your professor to be your buddy buddy and guide you through everything.

      The professor is the guy you ask why you can't figure something out and he'll tell you in 1 second what you're doing wrong. He's not the resource for keeping you entertained and motivated during class.

    3. Re:Beware the Do vs Teach dilemma by PseudoCoder · · Score: 2

      Wow. You get to miss the point of my post AND show yourself a smart-ass all in one post. Such efficiency!

      When I went to college the internet was but a fetus compared to what it is now. And regardless, my classmates were not tasked and paid to teach me something; the guy up front with the diplomas on his wall and the chalk in his hand was. To give a pass to the person who has an assigned responsibility and fails, only to put that responsibility on your buds isn't as clever as you make it sound.

      --
      "Now, I doubt any of you would prefer a rolled up newspaper as a weapon against a dictator or a criminal intruder."
    4. Re:Beware the Do vs Teach dilemma by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like a good place for a free market to open up.

      There's but one problem. More often than not, being taught is not a matter of being interested in learning. But in getting a piece of paper that helps to qualify for a job. Consequently, someone might be rated as a good teacher because said paper is easy to come by.
      The underlying problem is that it is very very difficult to judge the proficiency of people. Get the Xs in the right boxes surely isn't, and orals are much more costly, but not much better either.

    5. Re:Beware the Do vs Teach dilemma by m00sh · · Score: 0

      Wow. You get to miss the point of my post AND show yourself a smart-ass all in one post. Such efficiency!

      When I went to college the internet was but a fetus compared to what it is now. And regardless, my classmates were not tasked and paid to teach me something; the guy up front with the diplomas on his wall and the chalk in his hand was. To give a pass to the person who has an assigned responsibility and fails, only to put that responsibility on your buds isn't as clever as you make it sound.

      First of all, grow a sense of humor buddy. Don't assume I'm insulting you. I'm replying to your post to add something to what you said.

      Anyways, he's not paid to teach you, he's paid to teach the class. If you don't learn anything in the class and you fail, that's not his problem. You and your classmates have a shared goal of learning the material and working together will make the goal easier to attain for both of you.

      Anyways you're not in school anymore so this is all just pointless talking.

  11. Teachin music by anmre · · Score: 1

    This sounds like almost every free-lance "music" teacher I've ever come across.

    Just because you can play some chords on a guitar doesn't make you qualified to teach music. These folks are either naive about how much work and expertise it actually takes to be a true teacher, or they're charlatans attempting to prey off the naivete of others. I mean, there's a reason why we have education accreditation boards, right?

    1. Re:Teachin music by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I mean, there's a reason why we have education accreditation boards, right

      The thing is I have a BS degree in CS. I can safely say about 3 of the professors in my curriculum track could not teach worth a damn. It was a real gamble, as in it cost me money, taking a new teacher. I rearranged my final two years to make sure I did not get particular teachers. Many students did the same as me. We compared notes on the subject.

      Those 3 professors however brought in TONS of research money. The school did not really care about making sure we got an education. They cared about how the football stadium looked, the rec center looked (for the football players only, the rest of you use the other one), and that particular endowments were being used for statutes. They chronically have parking issues and distance to class issues. They had at least 5 buildings with no AC in them and regularly taught classes in 100+ degree weather (another thing students would make sure to rearrange classes on).

      Universities and colleges are rarely about teaching. They are about ye ol green backs.

      To put it in perspective. I remember visiting the campus museum in the late 70s. I went in there a few weeks ago. Nearly all the exhibits are identical. A very few have been rotated out. But it is 99% exactly the same with the distinct removal of 2 exhibits that embarrassed them when proven they were hoaxes. Yet the stadium now seats 50k more people per game day (with nowhere for them to park).

    2. Re:Teachin music by fche · · Score: 1

      "I mean, there's a reason why we have education accreditation
      boards, right?"

      That would make a good line in a lullaby.

      Government accreditation, certification, regulation, are all just well-intentioned market-suppression efforts. With information flowing so freely now, these will be routed around.

    3. Re:Teachin music by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      This was my first thought, too. People who can barely program in PHP have been posting what I will generously call "tutorials" online for well over a decade, and the result has been a wild proliferation of people who only think they're good programmers.

  12. Re:No experience teaching no particular gift for i by rockmuelle · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have a Ph.D. and am now fully qualified to teach university courses. The funny thing about that is that in the course of getting my Ph.D., I never once had to take a course on how to teach or even teach/TA a course (I was a research assistant the whole time I was in grad school).

    I'm an outlier on not having to teach/TA a course in grad school (I did TA an undergrad, though) , but I don't know of any graduate programs that require actual training for teaching.

    The person cited in the summary is just as qualified as most Ph.D.s. :)

    As for the big bucks, two of my good friends from grad school (both computer scientists) spent their first two years working for free waiting for tenure track positions to open up. They get decent salaries now, but over the course of their careers, it's not what I'd call big bucks.

    -Chris

  13. So he pointedly never utters the word "Boolean" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So he pointedly never utters the word "Boolean" or other coding jargon in his video lectures if he can avoid it.

    Sounds like you'd become a great programmer after watching his lectures. $199 well spent there.

    To be fair, university lectures are equally worthless. The best way to learn programming is from a book as they give you the opportunity to try things out as you go along. You learn very little from sitting in a lecture theatre and listening about programming.

    That applies to most other things as well. I always prefer to learn from a book, work at my own pace and try things out myself instead of sitting in a classroom and being lectured at.

    1. Re:So he pointedly never utters the word "Boolean" by blue+trane · · Score: 1

      MOOCs provide programming exercises, and forums to ask questions. The problem is with the silly honor code, which results in cryptic, deliberately obfuscated posts that beat around the bush and encourage deviousness, instead of letting students help each other with direct clear answers.

    2. Re:So he pointedly never utters the word "Boolean" by tompaulco · · Score: 2

      University is not supposed to teach you how to program. Computer Science teaches you the theory of computing. Computer Engineering teaches you how computers work. MIS teaches you how to manage techies. None of those are specifically supposed to teach you how to program. However, all of them will likely have a class in which programming is used as a tool. There are also classes available in University which do specifically teach programming languages.
      However, they true purpose of University is to make you a well-rounded, socially adjusted person, who is teachable and has a good grounding in the concepts with which one would be working in that field. You don't actually learn how to do your job until you are in the field.
      Vocational Institutions are very good at teaching specific skills. However, they don't focus on teaching how to learn new skills, just how to be good at one particular one. As a manager, I would hire a developer fresh out of University and showed an understanding of the concepts of programming languages over one from a vocational institution who knew the syntax of a particular language.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  14. Minerva Etc. by retroworks · · Score: 2

    I'm married to a tenured prof, and I had the idea about 7 years ago (reserved a domain guerillacampus.org) to "uber" the college classroom. My idea was to use only fully tenured professors at area colleges to teach "on the side", so that students who paid would know they were getting the same generic teaching ingredients. Now I've got twins entering as freshmen, and looking at all the expenses and loans anew. I see Minerva Project is trying something similar, to replicate a "highly selective" competitive environment without the added expense of "campus" largesse.

    No doubt there is an opportunity somewhere in MOOCs or Minervas or Uber-professors to provide the teaching with lower expense. However, I found that it was a lot more difficult than having an idea and recruiting the teachers. Vetting students, recruiting, providing a certified brand of diploma, etc. proved fairly significant, and without scale of students one faces very high administrative challenges. He's not the first to have the idea and it's not going to be easy when students drop out or demand transcripts 5 years later, or don't pay their teachers as planned. But I hope he succeeds, if only to send a warning shot over the universities bows, ie that colleges have potential competition if they remain in the "arms race" to build massive capital intensive campuses.

    --
    Gently reply
  15. Sounds familiar... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    Most people work after graduating, become consultants, and hit the rubber chicken circuit by writing books and doing videos. So someone figured out how to skip working and consulting, went straight to the videos, and made big bucks. Meh... I got a business plan on the back of a napkin that will make zillions. Give me your money.

  16. Professors now make big bucks teaching by 0WaitState · · Score: 1

    "Professors now make big bucks teaching"

    BWA! HA! HA!

    Sorry, couldn't read beyond this. Too damned funny. Or stupid, if you prefer.

    --

    Remain calm! All is well!
    1. Re:Professors now make big bucks teaching by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Professors make an amazing salary for little work. The salary schedules are out there. Since you appear to lazy to check, I will offer nothing except facts for you to check. Tenured professors teach the same course year after year, they make $100k -$200k a year, in all areas of the country, have sabbatical, and fantastic sick and vacation policies, and a pensions unmatched in the private for profit sector. It is a theft of money from the subjects of TUSA to a small group of connected individuals spewing forth their garbage onto young minds.

      Oh well. Join in and wallow in the pig sh!t. It's more fun. Have a feeling you must be enjoying the romp, no?

    2. Re:Professors now make big bucks teaching by Phronesis · · Score: 1

      You're exaggerating the salaries: Median salaries for tenured Associate Professors is a bit under $70K. Median salaries for tenured Full Professors is a bit under $100K. Not bad, but not the "$100k-200k" that you describe.

      Few universities have pensions these days. They mostly have 403(b) retirement plans, which are basically the same as 401(k)s: Faculty contribute their own money and get matching up to some maximum (usually around 5 to 10 percent). How is that unmatched in the private sector?

    3. Re:Professors now make big bucks teaching by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that these are jobs that require a Ph.D. and a considerable amount of experience. If you figure two years of scraping by on a postdoc's pay, and four years as an assistant professor, that's six years of experience after your doctorate when you can be making that princely $70K.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  17. Khan Acadamy by PPH · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Salman Khan has done rather well considering he didn't get a degree in 'education'. The ability to teach has little to do with the teaching credentials that our education system demands. It's comunication, coaching and mentoring skills. The whole certification industry only serves to maintain scarcity and keep union teachers' wages and tuitions artificially high.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:Khan Acadamy by unimacs · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Put Salmon Khan in a classroom with 25 third graders and see how well he does.

      I'm not saying you need a degree in education to teach, but different sets of skills are required for different students in different settings. Degree programs prepare teachers to succeed in a variety of situations many of which are more challenging than making videos.

    2. Re:Khan Acadamy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If by that you mean that he is very well paid for an educator, I would agree. If you check out the Khan Academy's tax return
      at guidestar.org, you will find that Salman Khan made something like $300K in 2012. BTW, I think he has had a very significant effect on education as well; but since how much money people make in "education" was being discussed, I thought it was worth adding this (outlier) data point.

    3. Re:Khan Acadamy by jammz · · Score: 1

      Uh, no. The "certification industry" as you call it is based on a history much older than industry and it isn't about "maintaining scarcity" or "wages and tuition artificially high." Accreditation is about standards for an institution of higher learning. You can look at the scandals around for-profit organizations like Corinthian College, Inc. as a perfect example of why it's important to protect and foster higher education standards. Yes, "communication, coaching and mentoring" are important skills in a good teacher, but great teachers understand critical thinking and have the ability to repackage complex ideas in multiple ways to be accessible to a variety of learning styles and people. Disclaimer: I'm married to one of America's recognized experts in rhetoric, critical thinking, communication and teaching with technology.

    4. Re:Khan Acadamy by PPH · · Score: 1

      The "certification industry" as you call it is based on a history much older than industry

      Not really. People have been learning from elders or through apprenticeship for far longer than universities have been handing out degrees in education. Possibly longer than universities have existed. Where did Plato earn his teaching certificate?

      Accreditation is about standards for an institution of higher learning.

      Yes, but I was addressing teaching certification (of individuals). Which provides a barrier to entry into the education industry (albeit a pretty low one). But once people have their certificate and a job at the local high school, the union fights any further quality control measures. Its all about seniority and tenure.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    5. Re:Khan Acadamy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read the book: Building a Better Teacher, by Elizabeth Green.

      READ IT!!!

      Also read: Make it Stick, by Peter C. Brown.
        (Warning-- this book WILL make you want to go back to college and do it all again. If you're still in college, lucky you!)

      Then go watch a Khan Academy video and see how effective you think they are for making a more educated society.

      You're welcome.

    6. Re:Khan Acadamy by kefalonia · · Score: 1

      Couldn't agree more.

      I happen to have both an Engineering degree and a postgraduate degree in relation to (Computer) Science Education; These are all good baggage to have, however after 100s of technical trainings assignments I can testify that nothing beats to be committed to the task of helping others through knowledge. It requires both self-reflection on how we learn and beyond average self-investment in gently pushing others through conceptual leaps and mental barriers.

      If teaching was teachable, then who taught the first teacher?
      and we may add: and who certified whom first as expert in education? ;-)

  18. Slippery slope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I watched an intriguing documentary about a high school chemistry teacher that lost his job and began dealing drugs...

  19. MOOCs et. al. require motivated students by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All of ya'll who have posted so far on your success via online material have said "I wanted to do it and pushed myself through it." One prime reason for the failure, of most online teaching systems that are hands off like this is motivation on the student's part to push through. Pure online doesn't seem to work for the majority (vast majority?) of people. Hybrid models that I've seen, with tutors and teachers in the room or interacting individually somehow, seem to be better.

    A relative is taking online classes to get a late in life degree, one class at a time, slowly but surely. It's a degree for his field, classes are self driven through an online school. He can finish classes whenever he wants and start a new one. In the end it turns out slower than traditional college, but works at a distance for him.

    "Salman Khan has done rather well..." He produces content. He doesn't teach. Until you can measure what product he provides by some sort of system (that's the concept of accreditation, it's not an evil word), you have no idea if it's effective by itself.

    Certification is not evil. The world has to have some way to measure what you've learned and achieved. That's certificates/degrees. Some fields work without it, but few. Otherwise, the world's a mess.

    Teachers, especially high school and the adjuncts at community colleges/universities/degree mills are not making lots of money. Far from it. If you think otherwise, show some data to back yourself up.

    Yes, I'm union. No, I don't have a teaching degree. MS in Physics.

  20. Some amateurs are Sherlock; some are just amateurs by DutchUncle · · Score: 2

    Problem is, this could go right up next to the "common folks'" belief in "common sense over so-called science", and derision of "experts" of any sort. Degrees and certificates do not necessarily impart wisdom; many without degrees or certificates have wisdom; and neither paperwork nor wisdom are necessarily combined with an ability to instruct others, in either positive or negative correlation. OTOH, the Youtube attitude that "lots of people can make an entertaining performance video" does not mean that all of them are of good quality (either the video or the performance or both), and certainly does not mean that "anybody can make an instructional video too". Most Americans profess to speak English, but an immigrant seeking to learn English would get wildly varying results picking one at random as an instructor.

  21. Re:No experience teaching no particular gift for i by jythie · · Score: 1

    Well, just as qualified in terms of knowing how to teach, but I would wager that a PhD knows more about their field then some random person who failed at making iPhone apps. Even if the guy is really bright, there is going to be a lot of try, tedious material that he never learned which is going to impact his teaching if he has to stray from 'here is how you use XYZ framework/API/etc'.

  22. Re:No experience teaching no particular gift for i by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

    I never once had to take a course on how to teach or even teach/TA a course (I was a research assistant the whole time I was in grad school).

    You are a textbook example of why many professors in colleges are horrible teachers. They have no experience, and they are more interested in doing their research than teaching.

    The person cited in the summary is just as qualified as most Ph.D.s. :)

    Not true. He is not as educated or experienced in the topic as someone who has a Ph.D would be, and it would be trivial to stump him with a more advanced question. He is as qualified with respect to experience actually teaching, but he has not been in as many classes to see what hasn't worked by experiencing it. He may have had a good example which he can copy, but it is more likely the Ph.D has had one.

    As for the big bucks,

    I believe the realization was that he could make more money, which is certainly true for most app developers. The claim that academics make big bucks in any absolute sense is absurd.

  23. Also by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    Turns out most people aren't good self-motivated learners. You find that if you have the "courseware" kind of model where people can just go and watch lectures and do assignments at their own pace the attrition and failure rate is very high. People just won't do what they need to do. They need a more structured environment to succeed. Now you can get all self superior and say "Well they should just work harder and not suck!" but we have to deal with the real world and that means educating all types of people.

  24. Idiot's guide by matbury · · Score: 1

    Ah, so the "Idiot's Guide to..." has made its way onto the web. Except for, in this instance, without any editorial or quality control. I bet most of the semi-decent courses are posted there free for promotional purposes, either for anyone who might be interested in attending their educational organisation, e.g. college or university, or for using a particular product, e.g. high-end media production software and/or hardware. There's nothing new here and it simply encourages the typical Silicon Valley business model of make your content producers compete with each other in a race to the bottom and make the real profits for yourself from hosting, administering, and promoting the system... you know, by pushing stories into media outlets about how it's going to revolutionise education. Here's a great video about the history of new media technologies in education, "This Will Revolutionize Education": https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

  25. Overpriced by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sadly

  26. Re:Big bucks? Privaate teaching by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are three categories of students in general, who come to study. The top 10% don't need teachers, they learn on their own like in Stanford, MIT etc., the bottom 10% who have no interest in learning go to community college that baby sits them and give them a "bogus" associate degree (I have have taken classes there and verified this) and the majority of students about 80% are average and want to learn and get a degree for betterment of their life. Neither the text books nor the teachers take care of these 80% future tax paying citizens. Text books in general, are written by contract writers who have almost no teaching experience but enough material to cover the course requirement and the best teachers do not want to write to just get 10-15% if they are lucky while the publishers can even deny publishing the books after getting the rights transferred to them. So, where are you going to find the best teachers to teach most of the 80% average students? No where. This is the case not only in US but also in most other countries except Japan. Teaching needs a lot of deep thinking, passion to help the average students, enormous patience and a well paid job. Universities are in general, a den of intellectual corruption – 2nd and 3rd rate professors preventing the first rate to enter their, teach there and get tenure because like politicians, they can not survive if the students compare them to the best. The scene is from elementary school to Universities in the USA. No solution now with electing bogus politicians and people are willing to be cheated by them but do not realize that their chidlren's life is at stake.T

  27. Re:No experience teaching no particular gift for i by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I beleive that Carleton U in Ottawa has a required set of mini courses for masters and PHD students that give them a minimum level of teaching skills

  28. Re:No experience teaching no particular gift for i by i.r.id10t · · Score: 1

    Not only that, but someone with a PhD has had their share of teachers who were great, and those that weren't. I've never had a "teach 'em how to teach" course, but I can read about best practices, emulate the good teachers I've had, and do those things I want done to/for me as a student.

    --
    Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos