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Ask Slashdot: Affordable Large HD/UHD/4K "Stupid" Screens?
New submitter LOGINS SUC (713291) writes Truly in the first-world problems category, I've been looking for large format (>55") HD/UHD screens for home entertainment. In light of the recent Samsung big-brother monitoring and advertisement injection concerns, does any reputable manufacturer still make "stupid" TVs? I don't want to pay for all the WiFi, apps, cameras, or microphones. I don't need it to have speakers. And at this point, I don't even care if it has the TV receiver functionality. All this stuff leads to vendor lock-in or is well on the path to obsolescence by the time I purchase the device. I prefer all of this non-visual functionality be handled by devices better suited to the purpose and I don't want to pay for screens including these widgets I have no intention of ever using, at all.
I've searched all the normal retail outlets. If I find anything, they are wildly expensive. "Computer monitors" fit the bill but are almost all 55") LCDs in the sub-$3,000 range anymore? Are projectors the last bastion of visual purity for home entertainment?
I've searched all the normal retail outlets. If I find anything, they are wildly expensive. "Computer monitors" fit the bill but are almost all 55") LCDs in the sub-$3,000 range anymore? Are projectors the last bastion of visual purity for home entertainment?
http://www.vizio.com/p-series
QED
Just use a projector. It's inexpensive and typically has no features other than projecting.
You may actually have to pay more for a large screen without all the WiFi and stuff because the production volume for them is a lot smaller.
Live with the fact that you get "extras" for almost no cost.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Was get a 70" smart TV, and not use any of the smart TV features. It seemed to work out alright.
hey!
You can buy black projector screens around 100" for about 500 dollars or so. And that means you can watch your projector with the lights on.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Got it at Walmart. I don't particular like Walmart, but... they sell stuff which nobody else does because they demand those selling to them cut prices and to do that you have to cut corners. Now I don't know if it is going to die on me early because its of poorer quality or anything like that. It may. But in either event it is stupid.
Been through this a few years ago with a 53" 1080p plasma, and just went through it again for a UHD 65" LCD. If you want a better picture you'll have to get the extras, just don't use them. There simply isn't a high quality screen that isn't "smart" these days.
...to put on your tinfoil hat before you get out of your bed from your lead-lined walled bedroom....
It's not tinfoil-hatism when it's true. Big brother issues aside, there's a very valid point in his post: Why pay for all those extra electronics/failure points when all you want is a display device. Personally, all I want is a screen and speakers with enough ports on the back for my various systems.
The word is "dumb."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Remo...
http://gizmodo.com/5887808/eve...
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Chang Hong (sp?) produces large "dumb" screens cheaply. Quality seems to be not-the-best-but-not-the-worst.
Agree w/ OP that smart devices that don't need to be are annoying shit.
Can I get a "smart tv" with a user replaceable OS? I'd rather load an interface more suited to my needs (something like Kodi) that I can upgrade/maintain on my timetable.
When 'all those extra electronics' probably cost the manufacturer less than $20, why would they take on the expense of supporting a separate model without them?
Oh yeah, when some dumb shit company who's core business is putting those retards into cubicles bought it.
head to http://soylentnews.org/ and be happy
factor 966971: 966971
I have a 47" LG TV. I have no idea what smart features it has. I don't use them. Like everyone else said, don't use them if you don't want to. It still will do the basic job of displaying whatever you want. I like simplicity; but in this case, simplicity is more of a state of mind.
And if the poor thing gets lonely and needs to pickup a conversation or two and listen to them for the lulz, it can do so. I don't mind. Oh wait, those are Samsung TVs. Maybe I will get one of those, I could use a creeper TV.
Agreed. I wasn't very interested in a "Smart" TV, my Sony BluRay player already does all that. But, I was set on a Samsung UHD 50", and they don't make a dumb TV that's UHD that I've seen. Not locally in the stores at any rate. When I got it home, I enabled Internet on it anyway, I was curious to see just what else it might offer. I was chagrined to learn of the microphone/data mining issue though.
It shouldn't be difficult to just turn off the networking, unless the TV refuses to work without it or something insidious, that would be serious problem. I'll test mine tonight.
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
Their 65" 4k (30hz @ 4k resolution) is now on Amazon for $999. The 39" has worked just fine for me, so I imagine the 65" is comparable in terms of quality. (It does have 4 stars on 600+ reviews)
I had to go with a projector, and you might have to also. It was the only way I could find to get a piece of equipment that didn't screw with the picture in ways I didn't want screwed with (i.e. I can't stand the soap-opera effect, or the idiotic way modern sets turn the backlight down in dark scenes. No, I'm not kidding, they really do that. Try watching Alien, or anything at all with a lot of night / dark scenes and most modern sets will ruin it completely. In quite a few sets you can't turn this feature off without voiding your warranty, even if you can figure out how in the first place through the service menu).
I have a great projector, it does one thing, does it well, and has basic controls and nothing extra. Is 3D (does a great job of it) and total cost including screen was around a grand! It's "only" 1080p of course, but it looks basically perfect. This might be your best / only bet...
seiki 4k 65inch? 1000$ on amazon
I see your point; how can they sell their "smart" device when it performs worse than a "dumb" device that costs $20 less? (Actually the price difference would be more than the BOM because they also have to hire terrible programmers to crap up the device too though.).
A perfect example is my LG "smart" TV. So damn "smart" that it takes no less than 30 seconds to change inputs! Grab control device (which thinks it is a mouse), click the "apps" button, wait 7 seconds, point mouse at "input" and click. Click again because it wasn't "pink" and active yet. Wait for 8 seconds for input list to load. Point at HDMI 1, attempt to click. Wait and curse while it redraws the screen and loads DLNA sources. Now HDMI 1 is off the screen. Mouse "mouse" to right, click next page. Find HDMI 1, and wait til it is "pink" and active. Click. 30 seconds is about the quickest you can get through this.
I long for a dumb slab of glass TV with a bunch of HDMI inputs that I can switch by just a click. Oh, and this TV gets 400 MB software updates all the time. It pops up while you are watching a show and asks you to install it. Fuckers!
If you live in a "first world", you are likely to have a first world problem. Solving your first world problem can be just as important as solving a third world problem. And solving it does not prevent you from helping solving third world problems. :)
However, while it is an interesting question you have, I don't think this even qualifies as a problem.
Don't connect your TV to WiFi... Done.
You can have a smart tv no problem, but just make sure it does not connect to internet.
You don't need to buy a dumb TV. All you need to avoid is plugging it into a network.
If you don't plug your home theatre equipment into your network, it can't call home. Done.
Just don't supply your Smart TV with the password to your Wi-Fi network.
I always buy my TV at Dell.com, because they have good price for their electronic. Don't buy computer there because they are too priced and too low spec, but the price for their TV are more than honest. They have lot of dumb tv set. By the way, for me the only good smart TV is adding a andoird stick on a dumb tv.
unbundled hardware is expensive because it's expensive to make. Bundled features such as a tv tuner, voice monitoring, tivo, etc., aren't value-added consumer perks, they're incentives for the consumer to part with their privacy and in some cases, their hard earned on an ongoing basis through channel subscriptions and TV licensing. Without those ongoing incentives, there is little to persuade retailers to sell you the hardware. I found the same with laptops. No retailer wanted to sell me a laptop without Windows for the same price minus the cost of an OEM Windows licence (which is the way it should be done), the incentive for them to bundle Windows is £175. I figured and decided it would be less painful for me just to swallow the £5 worth of hurt and ditch the Windows licence at the first opportunity (glad I didn't, Windows 7 is actually pretty decent notwithstanding its glaring faults). That perceived value-added for Joe Sixpack is the Windows licence (which as far as he's concerned is £180 worth but in reality it's a fucking FIVER), but the real incentive for the retailer is less of that, it's service contracts, insurance policies, finance and whatever else they can stuff your shopping cart with (hard drives, headphones, mp3 players, how about a nice velour-lined backpack?). Phones, same thing. An unbundled phone costs what, £600-£1000? Same phone, locked to a single carrier, quick credit check and BAM, your "free" phone is attached to a 24 month contract (that just happens to be about the same or +£200 the cost of the phone) with a limited amount of what you "bought" the contract for in the first place: a meaty data deal with voice minutes and text bundles thrown in. Bundling/unbundling is a giant fucking ripoff.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
Either in the settings by turning it off, or by putting bogus login information in. Or you can block the TVs MAC address at the router.
No wifi, no networking, no smart functionality.
Best Slashdot Co
The second-to-last sentence of the post is so mangled, I have no idea what you are saying (asking?).
"Computer monitors" fit the bill but are almost all 55") LCDs in the sub-$3,000 range anymore?
> They aren't manditory.
So? They're still there and open for abuse either by some hacker or by the company that put those features there to begin with.
The most secure web server is the one that's not even installed.
The whole point of this nonsense is that these devices aren't in our control. We can't burn this stuff to the ground. The best we can do is set a flag somewhere. It's like "uninstalling" Internet Exploder from Windows.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
http://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-55LN5400-55-Inch-1080p/dp/B00BB9OOFG/ref=sr_1_4?s=tv&rps=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1423761868&sr=1-4&keywords=lg+55+inch+tv
I am thinking of getting a 40"ish 4k display for developer work.. What would you guys recommend? The LG UB8000 seeems like a good choice. I only really care about text quality / ease of reading...
sMart features are not adding significant cost to these products. instead of whining like a paranoid neckbeard just dont use them.
Get a Panasonic professional display. We use them in art galleries and for digital signage.
http://www.panasonic.com/business/flat-panel-displays/index.asp
Is UHD or 4K better? I want to watch my Night Court tape.
Yeah, because disabling it in SOFTWARE makes it impossible for the tv to activate it when your not looking right?
If you want to be totally safe, you need to cripple the hardware itself!
Agreed. I'd love to ditch the tuner. what a pain in the ass having it switch inputs to the tuner automatically if you dare touch certain remote buttons. "Guide" is what kills me, as I usually adjust volume on TV the hit guide. Whoops, have to adjust volume then hit CABLE, then hit guide...but now to clear the guide I have to Exit, exit, input, input, input then cable, then guide again. I'd keep the speakers if I could, but would take no smart, no tuner, no speakers over smart+tuner+speakers.
I just bought a 50 inch Hitachi TV for ~400 bucks at a local Sams Club. It was the standard 1080 resolution and is not a smart TV. I guess I've been used to "smart" TV delay when turning the TV on, so when this one turned on instantly it took me by surprise.
I don't know why you care, since you can always just not use the smart features, but if you insist you must not have them professional monitors fit the bill. NEC makes the ones I generally spec out. Very well built, high brightness, rated for 24/7 operation, etc. You pay for it, of course, since they are commercial grade rather than residential grade.
This is where Comcast building wifi hotspots into their cable modems becomes pretty damned insidious - how long until devices like this are "pre-authorized" to automatically connect to the mothership through any available wireless connection?
Imagine if a Samsung TV automatically phoned home through your neighbor's Comcast wifi/modem link not because you enabled it but because Samsung had paid Comcast to allow its devices through. And of course this behavior is on by default and block it, thanks to some timely lobbying, is now a violation of the first amendment (or something equally deranged-but-feasible vis-a-vis corporate personhood).
I have a projector that I project onto a very white surface,
Black is fine, because the BRIGHTEST aspects of the image are so bright that the non-illuminated parts of the screen are, in fact, quite black.
If I bring a totally white piece of paper in a cave, and shine a light away from it, will it glow like the su? Of course not.
Modern projectors are usually pretty bright. And you can of course easily provide some darker surface to project upon if you really feel it is an issue.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Please let's start calling them what they are.
A Telescreen.
Please stop calling them a Smart TV. That implies something positive about them over ordinary TVs. Also don't qualify dumb TVs as dumb. It is actually smart to prefer an ordinary TV. Let's put the negative focus on Smart TVs, or rather Telescreens, as it should be.
I'll take the "smart" part in a separate box thank you. This allows competition from any vendor. The 'smart' box becomes obsolete much sooner than the TV and can be easily and cheaply replaced. I can have more than one smart box rather than the preselected one built in to a Telescreen. (Amazon, Google, Roku, etc) If I don't like the EULA for one vendor's smart box, it doesn't stop me from buying an outstanding TV.
The public needs to become more aware of this issue so that Telescreens have negative market value.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Look at Samsung's "evolution upgrade kits" for a point of reference how much those extra bits cost. Approximately 300$.
What I think really needs to happen, and we'll never see it is that these screens need to come with exactly two ports: Displayport and HDMI.
You connect all your home-entertainment gear to the single HDMI port via the "surround sound receiver" which you can tune the surround latency for all your passive "watch TV" stuff. You may even get lucky and the latency will will be good enough to plug all your game consoles into it.
Meanwhile the displayport you connect to an actual display-port switcher, or directly to your computer. The TV would then reverse the direction of the HDMI port and send the digital audio back to the surround receiver.
The ATSC tuner, Analog tuner, and Cablecard system is all unusable everywhere outside major cities in the US. So these parts may as well be removed from the television entirely.
"Smart TV"'s are basically a dumbTV with a smartphone-minus-the-LTE/GSM radio built into it. And both LG and Samsung's SmartTV's are atrociously awful. You get a better experience with a Wii U or an external AppleTV/Roku/etc
...to put on your tinfoil hat before you get out of your bed from your lead-lined walled bedroom....
It's not tinfoil-hatism when it's true. Big brother issues aside, there's a very valid point in his post: Why pay for all those extra electronics/failure points when all you want is a display device. Personally, all I want is a screen and speakers with enough ports on the back for my various systems.
Then just shop for those features and focus on making sure the panel supports CEC on/off/input-grab and you can throw away the TVs remote and forget about the "smart" features entirely after you have all your fancy stuff hooked up. If the smart wifi module breaks and you arent using it, who cares?
a 42" LG about a year ago, it has no apps but cost within 10$ of all of the equivalent tvs with apps.
Projectors are harder to position in a home
Not if you place them on the ceiling. You can simply run cabling along the ceiling to where it needs to go.
A projector on the ceiling can go pretty much anywhere.
are significantly more expensive for equal quality
For the size? Don't think so.
require expensive screens if you want decent contrast and visibility
I project onto a piece of why vinyl I think cost me around $10, over a small wood frame I made myself for around another $10. That works great.
So many people on Slashdot today seem to have projector info from the 80's when projectors were not nearly so bright as they are now. Projectors are far more awesome than any TV can ever be, AND you can take them with you someplace else if you want to.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Seiki makes some good "dumb" 4K TVs. I have been quite happy with my 50"
If you are looking for a dumb 4K display that is above PC monitor size and cheaper or even the same price as a comparable "smart" tv, then the answer is probably no. The only real options you have are A) get the smart TV and never connect it to your network or B) buy a commercial grade display. Option B is going to be much more expensive than Option A. Well I guess there is always option C) Contract with a manufacturer to create a private brand line of your own. Pretty sure option C is not going to scale down to a production run of 1 very well cost wise though.
I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
This is where Comcast building wifi hotspots into their cable modems becomes pretty damned insidious - how long until devices like this are "pre-authorized" to automatically connect to the mothership through any available wireless connection?
Agreed but then that's part of the reasons why I own my own cable modem> It does not have built in wifi so Comcast can't pull any hijinks and it costs me less since I'm not paying any rental fees. Also fortunately I live far enough away from my neighbors that no wifi signals but my own are within range of my house.
They aren't manditory.
And yet I'd still have to pay for them to be there, which is a giant rip-off.
Also, not all "smart TVs" will allow you to turn their "smart" features off. The one my parents have pops up a "network connection unavailable, please select from available wifi networks" warning that lasts for a minute every time you turn it on, if you aren't connected to the internet, and has exactly zero options for disabling any of the features, including the ones that wouldn't work anyways because they connect to services and servers that have long since gone out of business.
Personally, I lucked out and found a nice crisp high quality 56" 1080p display that has a pile of inputs, and barely even supports TV channels. It was the only non-smart TV in the whole store at the time (Future Shop in Canada), was the display model, and they didn't have a box or even records of when it came into the store, so the manager let me have it for $150. I've checked there a few times since, and the only non-smart TVs they ever have are around the 16" to 24" size variety. Anything bigger and you're paying double price for a giant pile of features most people don't want and will never use.
Jesus fuck when did this site change from a tech savvy bunch of geeks to a bunch of dribbling retards?
When they started pandering to morons with zero ability to understand problems. Like you.
Yeah, because disabling it in SOFTWARE makes it impossible for the tv to activate it when your not looking right?
If you want to be totally safe, you need to cripple the hardware itself!
1. Take large roll of aluminum foil
2. Wrap TV carefully, don't allow any gaps
3. Take a small piece of foil, roll it up to look like a wire, tape it to the bigger piece (use duct tape here), and push it into the GROUND line of your wall outlet.
4. The GROUND line, stupid.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
It seems simple to just not connect it. Just do not plug it in and do not configure a wifi connection.
I care because it increases the cost of the device, increases electrical consumption in operating the device (again, costing more money), generates extra heat which shortens the lifespan of the electronics, creates possible failure points which could cause electrical shorts/interference with other parts of the device. Then there's the software aspect, bugs which require patching, "features" which can't be turned off, slowness in turning the device on and off, advertising when no signal is present, etc.
I want my devices to be smart, not my displays. I want my displays to be interoperable through several generations of devices.
Seiki 4k, available at Amazon
For example don't user the remote control that came with it, because it has dedicated app buttons that will take 30seconds to fail to launch netflix for you, or worse, offer to walk your wife through wi-fi setup. So you need another remote too. And since they are special your universal remote won't work out of the box, so you'll need to to button to button remapping to get that to work.
You know what would be even better than turning wi-fi off? Not having it at all...kinda of like what the OP asks for.
To answer the OP's question you can buy commercial TV's (like hotel rooms or restaurants buy for their active menus) and they have no smart features. They are widely available at commerical type stores. Lg also makes them up to 65" (we have some installed here). Big, dumb panel. Here is their site:
http://www.lg.com/us/commercia...
Here's a 65" one from Staples:
http://www.staples.com/LG-Supe...
They also drop in price slower than the mass market ones, so expect to pay more for the same size....
The most secure web server is the one that's not even installed.
Then it's not a web server, is it?
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Because those failure points will still be there in a "dumb" TV.
The TV needs a video processor and modern video processors already have multi cores with GPUs and all that. You can thank the smartphone revolution, but the SoCs used in TVs are often derived from the SoCs used in smartphones. Enough so that TV-specific SoCs can be more expensive.
So you're already talking about a TV with dual or quad core processors, 1GB of RAM, and other things. WiFi/Ethernet isn't pricey (and often bundled because most SoC vendors encourage bundling - if you go Broadcom, and use Broadcom WiFi/Ethernet ICs too, you get a break on the whole package).
Basically, TVs have gotten to the point where thanks to smartphones, they're swimming with CPU power, already run Android or Linux, and are sitting there as required pieces for the video processing chain. "Smart" features are merely software items that are trivial to add on because they come "for free".
Plus, it's one of the few ways to get Netflix in 4K. Netflix doesn't support 4K on PCs.
2. Wrap TV carefully, don't allow any gaps
That's a joke, right?
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
Worse still, they could attach robot legs to each TV so if it's unable to get a Wifi signal, it automatically walks out of your house, tries to find some kind of connection, steals two Pringle cans and some foil, and then builds a special mirror that will beam the signal right into your home.
Also they could attach guns to each TV, to ensure that you only change channel when your corporate masters tell you to, and never go to the bathrooms during commercial breaks.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
I have a old Cornea 17 inch LCD monitor. At this point the back light has done pretty dim, I believe my father got it in the year 2003-4 for like 600$+.
It had a TV tuner, HDMI, DVI, RCA, SVID... and I gotta say it worked fucking wonderfully. The view angle was pretty terrible but I loved how responsive it was. Like, mere tens of miliseconds to switch channels and perform any monitor functionality, like they had optimized the code or used some kind of FPGA or even an ASIC as the control driver.
Like, you could rapid cycle through channels and actually images see all of them, like flipping through a picture book. My new TV's (even on TV tuning) cannot do this, the control system on it seems shitty.
Btw, if your paranoid then I suggest getting some basic electronics technician skills and simply taking apart and removing the microphone/wifi/etc. I do this with laptops, usually the microphone/camera module will just require you to unplug a ribbon cable (and stick some tape over it so it does not short out on something!). I have yet had to de-solder anything to disable the camera (even in an iMac that I found in the trash).
Holy cats, yes.
I run a weekend cabin rental business on the side and at least once a month I get a renter who pushed the wrong button on the TV or DVD remote that screws up everything and I have to go help them figure out how to get it back to a state where they can watch a DVD.
At the very least put a "Reset" button that can be programmed to put everything back to a particular state with one touch.
For each "SMART" TV they typically have the same model with none of the "SMART" features for cheaper. I don't need or want any of the smart features, so I never buy Samsung's SMART TVs but I have bought the non-SMART equivalent. Many people seem to think ahh a "SMART" brand TV for more money and don't realize that they are paying for "SMART" features that they never had plans to use. SMART just sounds like a better TV.....
Btw, its likely if you disable the wifi functionality, some one would need to break into your house to re-enable it.
furthermore, like in the iMAC, the camera has its own little PCB connected by a ribbon cable with the mic/camera. You can probobly sell this on ebay to get some of your costs back.
Or if your really clever, splice in a switch on the power rail for the spy module.. In case you want it for some reason.
How many of us have these lying around the bedroom? These are serious issues. We've literally been ignoring them blissfully unaware or thinking we won't be targeted. The problem is many of us are being targeted for "crimes" that hurt no one and some of the technology being used against us is extremely terrifying.
The reality is those of us smart enough to object or want to object aren't dumb enough to put ourselves directly in harms way through violent action. Which leads to an authoritarian state.You might think your screwed now with no improvement in your economic status, increasing taxes, decreasing benefits, longer hours at work, and more things your told you can't do, but the state is just getting started.
This is why I ended up buying a smart TV even though I don't use any of the smart TV features. Several companies I looked at treat dumb TVs as a lower tier and smart TVs as their upper tier, and not just in terms of the software functionality. Or at the least, because the smart TVs were newer models, they had other newer parts. The screens they use can be different, with different performances. In my case, there still was a literal $20 between a smart TV model and the dumb TV model of the same size, but the smart TV had better color and a wider viewing angle because it used a newer screen. So when they push new features, they update other parts of the TV too, while even if still selling separate models without those features, not updating them.
Really, this is hard to find? A quick 5 search on Amazon or NewEgg turned up a plethora of non smart TVs of all types. 4K, LED, you name it, it was there.
Just avoid the Smart TV categories.
I have EXACTLY the same issue with cars.
I really don't want (to buy, maintain, or the extra weight, complexity and/or immediate outdatedness of) LCD touchscreens, navigation, parking aids, multimedia systems, blind spot monitors, voice control, OnStar, 57 airbags, hybrid technology, my car connecting to its manufacturer, etc etc.
These "features" are pretty much all literally unavoidable in all cars these days.
I ESPECIALLY don't EVER want a car that drives itself.
I wish someone would just make a new version what used to pass for a sporty car about 20-30 years ago. I.e.a simple, ergonomic cabin that uses physical controls, analog dials, a good motor and a well-sorted suspension, all without the need for any onboard computers at all. I say this as a software engineer, even I know there are some places that are better off without any technology and computers, and the car is one of the best examples I can think of.
btw, same thing with all laptops. you can sell the cam/mic as replacements.
I did that and now my TV doesn't work!
I just took the wifi chips out of the TVs at work. Much more reliable.
There is a very limited market for "dumb" TVs that "smart" TVs don't fill just as well.
That is, almost everyone who thinks they want a "dumb" TV will choose a "smart" one if the price of the "dumb" one is even $1 more than the "smart" one.
There are some markets where a "smart" TV is just not an option. Any location where policy prohibits any device that's even capable of being connected to a network, such as prisons, come to mind. Another place is where the "smart" devices are perceived as being more likely to be abused/vandalized/stolen than a "dumb" one, such as hotel rooms in high-theft-risk locations. However, most of these users would be perfectly happy with a tuner-less monitor rather than a television, thereby making the question about "dumb TELEVISIONS" irrelevant to them.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Not if you place them on the ceiling. You can simply run cabling along the ceiling to where it needs to go.
Run cabling "along the ceiling"? Maybe you like your house to look like crap but personally I think running wires along the ceiling looks terrible and my wife would feel even stronger about it. To do it so it doesn't look all JV requires actually putting holes in the ceiling/walls and is a substantial project. It also requires hiring an electrician unless you are planning to violate a whole bunch of code and safety regulations.
A projector on the ceiling can go pretty much anywhere.
No it cannot because you have to project it onto something. Maybe every wall you have is a blank white wall but that doesn't describe my house. Furthermore once you mount it it's staying there and is non-trivial to move elsewhere.
For the size? Don't think so.
Then you haven't looked into it. Unless you are talking about >80" screen size, projectors lose to flatscreens at the same price points. Good luck getting a good cheap 4K projector plus accessories cheaper than a 70" flatscreen.
So many people on Slashdot today seem to have projector info from the 80's when projectors were not nearly so bright as they are now. Projectors are far more awesome than any TV can ever be, AND you can take them with you someplace else if you want to.
I thought you were just telling us to mount it to the ceiling.
I also second the Seiki 39". Got mine from Amazon.com when it was $400. Now it's 2/3 of that.
On my NUC it actually uses the 4K resolution but I rarely use it as a monitor because of the low refresh rate (15Hz) at that resolution.
It is an AWESOME TV!!! I have it hooked up to
- Roku3
- Google Chromecast
- Amazon Fire Stick
If I had to find downsides it would be
- no "discrete code" to switch to a particular input. One selects "source" then scrolls up or down from the current source to the eventual source input. This makes things tougher for scene-remotes.
Ehud
As someone already mentioned, a 1280x720 native projector is a good option (I use one myself and have a 120" diagonal screen on my wall), or just buy a large monitor. You know, the display device that doesn't have a tuner or any other silly guts in it. Why do you need a device with a tuner and speakers anymore to view broadcast media? I am guessing you have a box from your cable or satellite provider that does the tuning and DVR functions, so that takes care of that issue. If your stereo isn't already hooked in, why? The only thing that should be connected to your display device is HDMI cable(s) and power.
These modern "smart" TVs are nothing more than scams to make you pay more for things you don't need all in one device.
Maybe you're paying to not have those extra "features"? Think of it like Amazon's strategy where they sold two Kindles: One with ads, and another for a little more money with no ads.
It is possible. With LG getting out of the plasma market, I found a new 60" one for $400. My only complaint is that LG has always been stingy with their inputs. This one only has one HDMI input.
Don't buy one now. High-dynamic-range television is coming, and a consortium of TV suppliers was announced at COMDEX recently. They will work together on coming up with a single standard for HDR. Netflix has also promised to deliver HDR content by year's end. It would be silly to buy a 4K panel that can only process rec-709 now when HDR is right around the corner.
Your Already looking for a Dumb TV that doesn't have any capability of network access... Just simply don't give it any.. Problem solved and you get the low price point... and if you feeling your paying for something you don't use you will see you getting a discount in the long run... Its the product of the economics of scale...
Your looking for a item that would be for a very niche market and the price will be influenced by that... Just treat it like a dumb TV and it will be...
Kind of like a Car... If you live in central america and have no needed for a heater in your car are you going to be able to find a car without a heater that meets your other needs? Probably not... or if you do will you be getting the best value for your money? very unlikely
Who needs WiFi when we can have Packet Over Sheep! http://datacomm.org/PoS-InternetDraft.txt
Or if they put in a cell-phone data link, like the non-Android Kindles (and some Android Kindles) and preauthorize the data services.
People rent cabins to watch DVDs?
Buy some old CRT TVs, that would seem to fit the cabin experience better anyway...
My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
He wants a 4K display, though, and most (if not all) of the TV's on that site are 1080p.
I'd imagine that it will still be awhile before we're going to have commercial grade 4K displays, since they aren't commodity parts yet.
If you decide you want "smart", add a Roku.
Gently reply
The problem with this argument is that there isn't really a price difference between smart and dumb TVs anymore. While the failure point argument is valid, I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you never use the smart features then those parts are not going to have a high failure rate.
More importantly, if you do buy a smart TV and chose not to use its features you will want to make sure you spend some time with the remote in the store. You'll want to either check it out in a store that doesn't have wifi or that allows you to disable it on the TV to test it out. Find out how well it works as a simple screen. Is it quick to switch between inputs? Is the remote good enough or does it at least support using a Harmony replacement? Are interfaces slow because the software on it is too heavy?
Basically, I'm advocating that you just don't care what features the TV has that you don't use and instead find the cheapest set where the features you do want to use work well. If that set has smart features, don't use them and you probably won't have an issue.
Yeah, because disabling it in SOFTWARE makes it impossible for the tv to activate it when your not looking right?
If you want to be totally safe, you need to cripple the hardware itself!
And how hard is that? In my home, the wifi is encrypted so if the TV connects via wifi, I simply don't give it the key. If it connects via ethernet, I disconnect the ethernet cable. It's not too hard to prevent the TV from phoning home.
As for the original question, at this time it doesn't seem like there are too many options for this. I bought a "smart" tv several years ago, I thought it would be helpful since I wanted to be able to stream Netflix without getting a third-party box. The interface is terrible, it's very slow and unresponsive. There haven't been any updates to the "NetTV" portion of the software, so pretty much the only thing worthwhile is Netflix - most of the other services it supports either are useless or don't even exist anymore. If the company cared about providing updates and staying current with services it might be worth it but there is no motivation for the company to provide software updates since they would prefer I just buy a new TV if I want access to current services. With things like Chromecast and FireTV, it makes a lot more sense to get a dumb TV and add the smart features you want via a cheap dongle rather than paying hundreds of dollars for the TV manufacturer to add the same hardware with a crappier interface to the TV.
Enigma
You might not use the features, but they might be active all the same, and snooping on you. Even if you have not configured them or think you have turned them off.
Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
You don't need to buy a dumb TV. All you need to avoid is plugging it into a network.
If you don't plug your home theatre equipment into your network, it can't call home. Done.
I certainly hope you don't have that same "authorize" mentality when it comes to cell phones, unless you actually took the time to read through those two dozen EULAs built in.
I also have no idea what you're going to do when your "disconnected" TV acts more like a cell phone when it comes to network activity, constantly on spew mode.
Maintaining inventory isn't cheap on such a large and expensive item.
People rent cabins to watch DVDs?
Buy some old CRT TVs, that would seem to fit the cabin experience better anyway...
The TV is to distract the kids while I'm doing something to their mom.
You could look for a LDF 4k display
We're making a Faraday cage here. Bonus points - You don't have to watch '50 Shades of Grey'.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Maybe around 32" can be enough?
I question the need for a giant monitor (55", 65" etc.) in the first place. I don't even think they look good as you're looking at LCD motion artifacts, other LCD failings and excess brightness beamed at your eyes.
There's now a 40" PC monitor even, Philips BDM4065UC. Just what you're looking for with plenty of inputs except that according to the review I've just looked up, the scaling of HD sources is a bit crap. It shows content without processing it and has low input lag. Perhaps good if you use a PC with displayport or otherwise have players, receiver etc. that scale to 4K on their own. And oh, the HDMI is 1.4 not 2.0
Just set the TV to log into your neighbor's router. Kinda like swapping store tracking cards to confuse things a bit.
The electronics won't appreciate the ventilation slits being covered. Why not make the Faraday cage out of mesh/screen?
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
I have a large Sony Trinatron CRT style TV circa 1991 gathering dust in my house. Its as dumb as a box of rocks network connectivity wise. It's your's if you pay for the shipping.
I noticed that Target - which is pulling out of Canada - has a bunch of 4k 55" Element TV's. These are going for around $500 (less if you're in Canada and get the "liquidation" discount of 20%).
I wasn't able to find a huge amount of info on them, as it appears that Element made them exclusively for Target, but the few reviews I found seem to indicate they're not half bad.
I house-sat for my sister once years ago, and she had an AV receiver that was hooked up to a DVD player. Once I got bored watching DVDs I tried hooking up my playstation but couldn't get any sound. It took me several hours to accidentally realize that the genius who created it thought it would be a great idea to have completely independent audio and video inputs so even after selecting Video 2, the DVD audio (which was off) was still coming out the speakers.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
His original question is for something that is cheaper because he thinks it should be when it does not have the extra features. As that simply will not happen, he has been offered alternatives.
Thinking that removing features from a mass market product will make it cheaper only shows that the poster does not understand the economics of mass production. Mass market: Cheap. Niche: Not so cheap.
Autism is definitely a big bucket of diagnoses, everything from we-honestly-don't-know to Asperger's. Since this is a very wide-ranging family of diagnoses the available therapies are also wide-ranging in methodologies and effectiveness. Autism therapy is more about teaching them how to deal with the outside world rather than making them act differently or "normally," whatever that means.
I have 2 sons with autism, both high functioning and one of them was also diagnosed with Asperger's. Neither is a "prodigy" but both are absolutely on-par with their peers in terms of intelligence. When you look at social/emotional maturity they are 2-4 years behind.
In the case of my boys, group therapy didn't work very well. The best thing for them so far has been ABA therapy-
http://www.autismspeaks.org/what-autism/treatment/applied-behavior-analysis-aba
They spend 4 hours per week in ABA therapy doing occupational and speech therapy which they have been doing quite successfully for about 4 years now. Social interactions are still painful with neuro-typical peers (yes, "neuro-typical" is how their doctors refer to "normal" kids).
An example from last week- At a park playground with my kids, one son walks right up to a woman (never seen before or since) and dead-pan tells her, "Your dog is ugly." She grabs his arm and drags her over to me demanding an apology.
Me: "Did he shout at or harm your dog in any way?"
Her; "No, but what he did was not right."
Me: "You're right. He does deserve an apology. Are you going to apologize to him for physically dragging him over here over something as minor as insulting your dog?"
She just stared at me with her mouth open and then walked away in a huff.
Schools are a very sore subject with me. School staff (teachers, administrators, para-educators, etc.) are either incredibly gifted with special-needs kids or they are completely inept: there doesn't seem to be a middle ground. Be prepared to (calmly) escalate concerns to people higher up the chain of command in your district and be prepared to go all the way to the superintendent, office of ombudsman, or state superintendent of public instruction (person in your state in charge of education, if in the US. no idea who this would be outside US). Be prepared to go school shopping to find one that better meets your needs.
One more word of advice: look for an autism support group in your area. Even if you don't go to regular group meetings they are a great resource for finding local therapists, finding strategies for navigating school district bureaucracy, and finding different types of therapies (music, nature, etc.).
There is no magic bullet here but there are a lot of different ways to approach Autism.
RmSnwBrdr, The one and only! "Life SuX! Get a F@#%ing Helmet!" -Denis Leary
Whoops, wrong thread...
RmSnwBrdr, The one and only! "Life SuX! Get a F@#%ing Helmet!" -Denis Leary
You aren't paying a penny for the typical "smart" tv feature-set. If samsung chose to make a dumb version of a tv then it'd cost at least as much because they'd effectively have the same BOM but end up with a product that was designed for a niche market.
Technology aside, i'm pretty sure TV makers actually collect from netflix/spotify/hulu and whoever else is pre-installed, which ultimately makes the smart product cheaper still.
It's much like adding video features to digital cameras - the extra features bring the final price down.
The problem isn't smart TVs. It's stupid consumers.
When you're out buying a new TV, if you're too dumb not to notice the webcam on the top of the TV, and the Eternet port on back, then you're a fool.
Am I missing something? Why not buy a smart TV but don't connect it to the internet if that is the TV you want?
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Back in May 2011 I bought a LG 60LD550, 60" 1080p LCD for about $1050 + VAT. It was on clearance sale because it had no 3D, no "smart" functionality, it was only a dumb 2D screen and that was uncool. Even now in 2015 the cheapest 60" 1080p LCD is LG 60LB561V for about $840 + VAT, that's 20% down in over 3.5 years. I still can't get a similar 65" TV for the same money.
Taking a panel, putting in a cheap box and selling it cheap is a low margin business. I have an uncle of mine who bought into that whole "smart" thing, they sold him a slightly smaller TV for almost twice the price. When you look at Apple TV, Chromecast etc. you realize they added $100 of smarts and sold it for $1000 extra. If I was a for-profit company hell yeah I'd push smart TVs. And lately UHD has been all the hype I have a 28" UHD monitor and I really don't see the point in a 60" TV, I'd minimum have to upgrade to 75" for that to make sense but that's $3500 + VAT for a Samsung UE75HU7505. Maybe when BluRay 4K is established and getting high bitrate native UHD is easy, Netflix is selling hype with UHD streams at less than BluRay bitrates.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
For all those suggesting a smart tv without usingvthe smart features, it's not that easy. I had that idea but was almost forced to connect to the Internet to accept a Eula. I don't remember exactly what the deal was, but otherwise it disabled some core functionality, like channel numbers.
I also tried just using it on my network while disallowing the Internet, but none of the apps worked, I was hoping to use video streaming apps from my local media but they were blocked unless they could call home,
http://isthisretina.com/ will or should prove to you that there is no such thing as affordable UHD/4K. You need a screen way too big, and/or you have to sit way too close, to make anything over standard HD worthwhile. $85,000 for a 120" TV that you have to sit 8' from does not make much sense to me. If it makes sense to you, good for you. ;)
I care because it increases the cost of the device, increases electrical consumption in operating the device (again, costing more money), generates extra heat which shortens the lifespan of the electronics, creates possible failure points which could cause electrical shorts/interference with other parts of the device. Then there's the software aspect, bugs which require patching, "features" which can't be turned off, slowness in turning the device on and off, advertising when no signal is present, etc.
I want my devices to be smart, not my displays. I want my displays to be interoperable through several generations of devices.
And it contains a microphone that is always on waiting for you to say something important or incriminating.
OP probably won't see this as there are already over 200 comments, but here's what I know: They make/sell HDTV monitors that don't even have so much as an HDTV tuner in them, and they're intended for commercial use for things like menu boards, advertising, etc. They're not particularly cheap, though, compared to a regular consumer-grade HDTV, but if price is no object then that's one way to go. The other way to go is to buy a freakishly large computer monitor and use that, or as others have suggested, just don't connect the thing to your network at all, without a data connection the so-called 'smart' features are disabled anyway.
On an associated note, I'm surprised the hacker community hasn't come up wtih hacked firmware to load onto 'smart' HDTVs to do specifically this sort of thing, or at least give you the option of 'lobotomizing' your HDTV so it is just a monitor.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
TCL is a relatively recent entrant to the US market. I think they're a Chinese company. Their web site shows a 58" HD and a 50" 4k TV that don't list any smart TV functions. I have a 40" version that has a good complement if inputs, but no smart features beyond a USB port. It is even able to access an OTA program guide.
I heard Samsung makes a few.
Back button / undo button - then they would be smart.
how long until devices like this are "pre-authorized" to automatically connect to the mothership through any available wireless connection?
Unlikely scenario thanks to government insisting we use WiFi encryption to stop third parties using our connections for terrorism / kiddie fiddling.
If Comcast actually puts unsecured WiFi into the modem itself, it may find itself being the FBI's bitch at some point in the future, guaranteed.
Look for a "Demo Mode" in the manual. When I first got my older non-smart Samsung TV it would reset to defaults every time it was power cycled. This got really annoying really quick if you wanted to tune your color temperatures at all, but might be great in your situation.
Nevermore.
BTW, I had a 802.11 CPE that I needed to disconnect for a minute, keeping the power on. Rather than pull it off the mount I wrapped it completely, dish and all in foil but...it stayed connected and kept passing data. This is a 2 mile connection at 5Ghz 100mW TX power, a Ubiquiti NanoBridge M5 22dBi. I put on two more layers and finally it disconnected. So play it safe, 3 layers.
They were available in 37" & 42" under the model numbers LVM-37W# & LVM-42W#, where # was the version number.
They were 1080 LCD units, with *no* tuner.
They had all the usual analog inputs, plus (2) DVI inputs and an HDMI input.
I'm still using the 37" I bought years ago, wishing I'd opted for the 42".
...to put on your tinfoil hat before you get out of your bed from your lead-lined walled bedroom....
It's not tinfoil-hatism when it's true. Big brother issues aside, there's a very valid point in his post: Why pay for all those extra electronics/failure points when all you want is a display device. Personally, all I want is a screen and speakers with enough ports on the back for my various systems.
Yep, less to go wrong.
These days I find myself more tempted by the cheap Chinese/Korean "unkown" brands like Conia and Kogan here in Australia. They're often the same panels bought direct from Samsung and Meizu and LG but have less "smarts" and a different brand slapped on the front. If all you care about is a panel, you may as well ignore the major brands.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Yeah, because disabling it in SOFTWARE makes it impossible for the tv to activate it when your not looking right?
If you want to be totally safe, you need to cripple the hardware itself!
Wait. You mean your home network is setup such that any device can magically connect to it at will, without passwords or anything?
We don't buy consumer displays at work for signage as they need to be on 14+ hours a day for years.
Commercial displays are what you are looking for. Sony has them, nec has some, im sure others. Prepare to pay more, double or triple the consumer cost. They are much more durable with prolonged use and you will probably not have to replace it for 10+ years. We have some plasmas from 2002 still running fine with the above dutycycle for instance.
They have features such as scheduling, remote turn on and are just simply built better. But you gotta pay.
-
Many manufacturers have very dumb panels for commercial digital signage.
Compare that to a Plasma TV,
Why should I when they are dying.
Yes, Plasma TV's have amazing contrast - which is an utterly irrelevant fact in 2015.
Frankly even though the blacks are a little better there's no way I'd buy one of any size due to how delicate and heavy the beasts are. Projectors are vastly more practical than Plasma.
Even decent cheap projectors now are as good as LCD TV's, which are all you can find anymore... and you can always control viewing conditions to improve a projected image to your liking if you are fussy.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
This AC needs serious +1's
The MyTh - I am a figment of the Imagination - [Im Probably even not here]
I just got a new 'dumb' TV a week ago and I'm quite pleased with what I have. True it's a Samsung and that's a naughty brand given the recent article. It's not 4K, but there's a 4K calculator available where you can ask do I really need 4K? This Samsung is big: 64", has no "smart" features, two HDMI ports, no 3D support. I have an external sound system and at least 7 more HDMI ports on my receiver. The TV I replaced was a Samsung LED H5000 series that was also basically a dumb TV which is also all I want.
Samsung PN64H5000 64-Inch 1080p 600Hz Plasma HDTV
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I4OBXWI?tag=wcarstsynd-20
This thing has great reviews and it helps that I just got it for $400 less than Amazon's $1300 price from buydig on a slickdeals post.
Part of what influenced my decision was this article on what are the best TVs over at Ars Technica:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/12/from-the-wirecutter-the-best-tv-you-can-buy/
Then also linked in the Ars Article is this handy chart for approximating where 4K will make a difference:
4k calculator:
http://referencehometheater.com/2013/commentary/4k-calculator/
So over all I'm pretty stoked about my purchase and I don't think I have to worry about spy apps and all the smart tv controversy for now. It also supposedly has lower input lag than LED TVs which is a bonus if I want to try and play games on the thing...
I picked up a Samsung UN65FH6001F in a 2013 Black Friday deal at Best Buy for under $1,000. It's very simple as far as current TV features go, but it's a great screen if you don't need 50 inputs and 200 apps on your TV.
I think the trend is to make every TV "smart" because it costs them little to nothing to put the existing "smart" chip in the TV, and it gives them more features to list on the box. Worst case scenario, they figure people simply won't use it if they don't want it. I expect the dumb TVs to become harder and harder to find, but you might still find the occasional gem out there. Mine was a BB-specific model, and wasn't even on Samsung's site at first (had to submit a ticket to get them to add it to even register the warranty).
I care because it increases the cost of the device, increases electrical consumption in operating the device (again, costing more money), generates extra heat which shortens the lifespan of the electronics, creates possible failure points which could cause electrical shorts/interference with other parts of the device. Then there's the software aspect, bugs which require patching, "features" which can't be turned off, slowness in turning the device on and off, advertising when no signal is present, etc.
I want my devices to be smart, not my displays. I want my displays to be interoperable through several generations of devices.
And it contains a microphone that is always on waiting for you to say something important or incriminating.
Your 'smart' phone has detected your voice and logged it with the Ministry of Truth as expressing an undesirable message. Men will be showing up at your door to escort you to the Ministry of Love, room 101.
Not every Smart TV has a microphone, camera or any of Samsung's spying ambitions. Most just have slow Netflix and Vudu apps and 3 HDMI ports. I would guess there is some profit sharing arrangement with included providers that makes the TV cheaper than it would be without mediocre hardware to allow these apps. After all, there is an $40 Fire TV stick with much wider capabilities.
So relax, buy the TV and don't use these apps. Personally I find them handy as the last resort when I moved other devices to another room or don't want to hunt for my cell phone or remote. But nobody is forcing you to even configure WiFi to enable them.
Proxy/firewall. They can't snoop if they can't hear you. I'd like to use a few features but I bought the device from a publicly traded manufacturer. They're in it to make money for stake holders. I'm just making sure I don't become a revenue stream at the price of my personal info. I can play movies off the nas via wireless which is all I need.
Consider industrial panels, for digital signage perhaps. They're not cheaper (in contrary) but these are rigid and simply work .. and lack the excess smart features.
Most are meant to integrate in a wall, either framed/sunken or just really flat and bolted on.
*shivers* It appears even this page has "SMART" all over it.. http://www.samsung.com/us/busi...
Hivemind harvest in progress..
Then your neighbor puts up an open WiFi and your TV phones home...
I use a logitech harmony keyboard. It's a little quirky, but I only use the remote functions I want to use, and assign them to the keyboard. I haven't seen my remote since I bought my TV. That said, I would like a stupid tv, for sure. My next one will be 4k, and I would rather have it stripped down.
The most I will pay to get a smart TV instead of a dumb one is the cost of a Chromecast, Fire Stick, Roku Stick, etc. That's the upper bound of its value to me, because I can turn a dumb TV into a smart one by adding an external device. Within three years I will probably have to add an external device anyway because the built in smart features will be obsolete. So really, what I will pay extra for a smart TV is zero.
Just for Christmas I was looking for a new TV. Not 55" but 47" but all brands have the whole range of screen size. I checked out all models a local big shop (Mediamarkt) had and non of them was dumb.
When the TV came (a LG model) I installed it with network connected. Upon installing it asked if it could send information to LG and I declined (needed for giving suggestions what to watch). Later it ask if it could send audio to its server which I also declined (needed for audio control). If you want to you can change the setting in the menu.
From the smart part of the tv I only use the ability to watch tv I missed and to play movies from a Serviio server (because Plex couldn't get the subtitles right).
turn the modem/router into bridge mode and use your own router. good bye hotspot.
Problem is, although they may be the same panels, they don't have the same video processing. That makes a difference in the picture quality.
Perhaps thse panasonic commercial displays might be suitable:
http://www.panasonic.com/business/flat-panel-displays/
I've heard good things about changhong tvs. Inexpensive and skipping the "smart tv" features. Newegg carries some. Though the 4k 55" is a little pricey @$999, the smaller screens are a lot cheaper!
Look for CCTV monitors.
No smart features. Just lots of inputs. Typically will have several of CVBS, HDMI, VGA, component, S-Video.
Typically glass fronted, often metal chassis. zero dead pixel. Very long lifespans & warranty.