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How Walking With Smartphones May Have Changed Pedestrian Etiquette

An anonymous reader writes The phenomenon of 'distracted walking' — pedestrians who walk while using smartphones — has raised civic attention in the last few years, with Utah issuing fines and cities in China creating dedicated 'smartphone lanes' for walkers who need to keep up with Whatsapp on the move. This article argues that smartphone users have become so accustomed to other people getting out of their way that they will no longer negotiate for sidewalk space even when not using their phones.

290 comments

  1. Take your space by ADRA · · Score: 4, Informative

    Too many people period are idiots about not negotiating equitable space that I just bowl them down. I'm taller and large bigger than most, so if I think they're being oblivious or careless, down they go! Being a dick about sharing a laneway is a dick move and the only ONLY way to punish it is to not yield.

    If you wanted to be an uber dick, you'd pick up their phone and throw it away, but that's too much for me =) Oh, that goes double for movie theatre texters! Die in a pit of hell assholes!

    --
    Bye!
    1. Re:Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I hope you are modded up.

      While this isn't as bad as people who think they are entitled to text while driving (the kind that thinks it's okay, and will hold their phone under their dash to avoid getting caught by cops), it's still bad just in the sense that it's so very rude.

      I can understand someone checking their phone while walking. But to actively engage in it just shows how impatient people are. It's like their soul is glued to it.

      I think the last time I went to a theater was 2009 for Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince. I think that was before the era of smartphones. I don't recall it being an issue that summer. However, I know I'd be angry if people were to text while I tried to see a movie. I'd probably demand a refund... or better yet, it'd give me my first-ever attempt at a charge-back if they refuse.

    2. Re:Take your space by TWX · · Score: 5, Interesting

      When my wife and I were fairly new as a couple she would get annoyed when I would precede her through crowds. What she came to realize though, was that since my work takes me into secondary schools and I have to navigate halls between periods, I've had to become a master of the Morpheus Walk, referring to the scene in The Matrix where Fishburne's character is teaching Neo of the risks of agents in the Matrix, and the crowd parts for him while Reeves' character is colliding with all of the simulated people. I'm also fairly tall, and I'm able to put on a demeanor that usually gets people to move out of my way.

      Once she saw how much easier it is to navigate a crowd that way she has been a lot happier in crowded situations to let me go first. If she sticks close behind then she can follow easily and we end up where we want to faster.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    3. Re:Take your space by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      I found what you wrote to be Bitter Sweet.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    4. Re:Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends on where you live... like sense of humor, this is something that is quite local. Living in Boston I have not seen a problem; living in Paris... little old ladies will knock you over like a linebacker if you don't get out of their way. Returning to Boston, I pushed someone out of the way when they didn't move and it took me about 10 minutes before I realized that it was probably rude. (And I was completely puzzled when, on a flight back to the US through Dallas, someone apologized for barely running into my coat....)

    5. Re:Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Read the article. This is not about morons that walk into fountains because they are not paying attention. [[www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGpVpsaItpU]] Instead it is about arrogant asses that ARE NOT DISTRACTED and naturally expect other people to get out of their way, to the point of collision.

      The solution seems simple. Stop about three feet in front of them and if they run into you have them arrested for assault and battery. That would probably work against the idiot with the cell phone too.

    6. Re:Take your space by nitehawk214 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I am with you on this. If you have a place to go, walk with determination. Don't look like you are in a hurry, just go. If you are just aimlessly wandering around, pretend you are trying to get somewhere. Obviously I am not being a dick and running people over.

      Being over six feet tall does help, but anyone of any size or gender can do it. Works great at concerts too.

      Though sometimes the lady in red grabs my attention and I walk face first into an agent... doh!

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    7. Re:Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      But the female place is behind the male (except for the minefields etc) - everybody knows that, so why was she upset?

    8. Re:Take your space by retech · · Score: 3, Funny

      Amen! I do the same thing. At nearly 6' 6" I just act like a wall and let them hit me. Then enjoy the squirming as they look up and try to apologize out of it. It's a good moment to let them know what rude asshats they are for not paying attention.

    9. Re:Take your space by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 0

      I don't really get this. I'm a heavy smartphone user but I've never walked into people if I use my phone while walking. Is it just that some people put priority of what their hands are doing way above that of their spatial awareness?

      I'd venture to guess that it's those people who also get into car accidents when their phone is in their hand. I've used my phone while driving (typically to look up directions) but my eyes never leave the road for more than a quarter of a second (e.g. just enough time to push the voice search button.) When I heard that most people take their eyes off of the road for up to 5 seconds...egad...though I think those people are just as likely to get in a car wreck while trying to tune the radio (and I've watched people driving take about that long to fiddle with a radio, and shouted at them afterwards.)

    10. Re:Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So to punish people that wont get out of your way, you get in their way. That sounds like you are more guilty than they are as at least they are not doing it on purpose.

    11. Re:Take your space by gatkinso · · Score: 1

      Come to Baltimore and try that.

      --
      I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
    12. Re: Take your space by Garybaldy · · Score: 1

      Ah yes the 12 year AC in moms basement has come out to play.

    13. Re:Take your space by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      quarter of a second

      Say no more, say no more....

      You should have a passenger verify the time you take looking at the phone, because personally, I don't believe it.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    14. Re: Take your space by Garybaldy · · Score: 1

      Really need to work on my proof reading.

      12 year old.

    15. Re: Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm a special snowflake just like you. It's okay for us to use cellphones when driving but not anyone else. We are special and know how to do it safely. Rules are for other people.

    16. Re:Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Elbows OUT... OHHHH sooooo sorry bet that hurt...

    17. Re:Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I do the same. Every day I walk through one of the busiest train stations in the world. Head held high, I barrel into those who don't look. Yesterday I had the distinct pleasure of hammering into an angry jackass in a suit, who yelled his series of invectices... until I stepped down rather hard on the phone that ended up beneath my boot.

      The only thing that made this better was when the policeman in the station asked me if I'd like to charge the chap with assault, as in his mind, the gentleman had hit me. That was brilliant

    18. Re:Take your space by newbie_fantod · · Score: 1

      I just bowl them down. I'm taller and large bigger than most, so if I think they're being oblivious or careless, down they go!

      OK, so might makes right.

    19. Re:Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but my eyes never leave the road for more than a quarter of a second

      Bullshit.

      And that's still more than a car length at 60mph.

      Just to blink takes a full tenth of a second.

    20. Re:Take your space by stevedog · · Score: 2

      Yeah, that probably was pretty funny. Except that, when accounting for the retail cost of the phone, you almost certainly caused over $500 of damage. Then, when you charged him with assault (which would be dismissed), he would have your name and would then charge you with felony vandalism, for which you would be convicted, probably summarily. Now you can't vote in most states, carry a firearm, or get a decent job. Oopsies!

    21. Re:Take your space by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      I mostly agree. I refuse to negotiate over the last bit of the sidewalk on the right-hand side. If forced, I will simply stop and they can run into me, or go around. It is rare, maybe 1 in 250 people I pass, I have to stop. Maybe 1 in 50 waits until they're inside 5' before moving over. The vast majority identify that I'm in the correct lane, and move over. There is no need for negotiation unless you're doing it wrong.

    22. Re:Take your space by stevedog · · Score: 1

      By the way, just to be clear, I strongly dislike entitled people who walk around doing things like wandering obliviously while using smartphones then expect the rest of the world to revolve around them and adapt accordingly.

      I just hate bullies even more.

    23. Re:Take your space by Aighearach · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If they maintain their lane, and just follow the traffic rules robotically then there is no problem. When I was a kid I'd walk and read a book at the same time, no problem. The problem is that people aren't following the traffic rules when they are paying attention, so when they're not paying attention they're just sortof stumbling into the street without knowing what the state is. If they're practiced in following the rules, they can do that on autopilot and they'll wait for the light to change before crossing without consciously even realizing they had stopped for it. And they'll maintain their lane, too.

    24. Re: Take your space by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 1

      At least you're bringing a gun to a gun fight - but remember, he's got the edge, you're too busy with the smartphone. By the time you drop it and reach he can shoot in self defense.

      I think a better option would be to not collide with him in the first place. That way you won't get shot.

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    25. Re:Take your space by chihowa · · Score: 1

      I assume he's talking about people who are taking up more than a fair share of the space to walk (ie negotiating equitable space). Situations like people walking down the center of a busy sidewalk so that everybody else has to step aside or bump into them or people walking two or three abreast and taking up the whole sidewalk. They're either oblivious or abusing people's desire to avoid confrontation.

      His approach is similar to what I've noticed, too. If people are occupying so much of the sidewalk that you can't walk normally (to one side of the sidewalk) without walking into them, it's almost your social duty to not yield to them. Be prepared to walk right into them. It's not acceptable for them to be so oblivious or such an asshole in public and expect others to go out of their way to accommodate them.

      It's the other people in this thread who are talking about backing up their "right" to be an asshole by shooting/stabbing people who don't yield to them that are claiming that might makes right.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    26. Re:Take your space by antdude · · Score: 1

      What about the lady in the red you were distracted with? ;)

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    27. Re: Take your space by Aighearach · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually, it is the best way to get through a rough neighborhood. If you can walk tall, confident, but not swaggering or strutting, you can pass right through almost anything. You do have to weave around gang-bangers, you can't crash into them, but if you maintain the right walk they usually won't even see you, you're just background. If they're also walking, they always make room for me, I only have to weave around them when they're loitering. I've done that in most major American cities, and I've never had a problem.

      In fact, the places I have had problems have been small towns, usually without sidewalks. Places where it doesn't matter how you walk, because there isn't enough traffic for it to matter.

      As somebody who lived in rough neighborhoods as a teen, one thing I picked up on: You're actually less likely to get shot/stabbed or randomly assaulted there. A lot of people have some means of self defense. Picking a fight could get you shot, so people don't pick fights unless you're obviously walking scared. You're unlikely to get robbed in a drug neighborhood, for example, because most people either don't have anything to steal, or have a weapon, or will fight to the death over their last $2. There are people getting robbed, but the perp knows the victim, and knows they have drugs, or knows they have money that they're trying to buy drugs with.

      The neighborhood where you might get stabbed over stupid shit is usually a University Neighborhood, the same place where you're likely to be assaulted by strangers. Those high crime neighborhoods, they're stabbing/shooting people that they know, and have a real dispute with. Don't borrow/loan money, don't borrow/loan drugs, don't arrange drug deals that might go bad, etc., and they probably won't involve you.

    28. Re:Take your space by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      Good luck with that when you have a policeman as a witness about who walked into whom.

      You'd have as much chance of getting a refund from DeVry on their JD program. Which you should try.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    29. Re:Take your space by Aighearach · · Score: 2

      I do that already, and they really do move after you stop. They'll only crash into you when you're both in motion and it is no-fault.

    30. Re:Take your space by Aighearach · · Score: 2

      Except that in cities we have this concept of "keep right* except when passing." There is room for travel in both directions. If there isn't room, the obstruction is on one person's side, or the other person's side. The person on the side of the obstruction is expected to wait. Some people, mostly youngsters, haven't figured this out. But it is actually somewhat rare. Most of the people will sort themselves to the correct lane if you force them to. You're not in "their" way if you're on the right side of the sidewalk.

      * Some locations use a different side than this.

    31. Re:Take your space by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      He didn't say that. He said might makes win.

    32. Re:Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Too many people period are idiots about not negotiating equitable space that I just bowl them down. I'm taller and large bigger than most, so if I think they're being oblivious or careless, down they go! Being a dick about sharing a laneway is a dick move and the only ONLY way to punish it is to not yield.

      If you wanted to be an uber dick, you'd pick up their phone and throw it away, but that's too much for me =) Oh, that goes double for movie theatre texters! Die in a pit of hell assholes!

      Sounds like you're a dick, too.

    33. Re:Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That should be common sense. Like when two people are walking toward each other, wherever, just step to the right. When both people step to the right, no collision occurs. It avoids that awkwardness of two people stepping the same way, back again, and so on, failing to pass each other. Whatever it's called.

    34. Re:Take your space by TWX · · Score: 1

      Married her, now among my duties are to see her through crowds safely...

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    35. Re:Take your space by antdude · · Score: 1

      Ha. Why didn't Neo or Mouse do this? ;)

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    36. Re:Take your space by Hartree · · Score: 1

      That video was the first thing that came to my mind as well.

    37. Re:Take your space by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      That's fine with people on their phones, but it's people on mobility scooters who are the real menace. You can't just stand your ground, those things will injure you. Anyone can buy one with no training or test to see if they are fit to operate the damn thing.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    38. Re: Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, there are such things as differences in skill levels and differences in circumstances. Maybe you're one of those people who just knows that looking at a cell phone is the absolute most dangerous thing a driver can ever do ever because some legislator says so, but paying the same amount of attention to your built in GPS or even a paper map is ok, right?

      Look, I get that certain uses of handheld devices are dangerous, but how about we get over the notion that all bad driving ever is caused by that, ok?

    39. Re:Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I had the opposite experience. I was attending the 1997 Presidential Inauguration in DC as a freshman at a local college. Because I was from out west, I was able to get two very good tickets, and offered to take a floor-mate who was desperate to go. We got to the event without much problem, as people arrived throughout the morning, but on the return, it was everyone for themselves on the Metro subway system. She saw the crowds, said "I'm from New York City" and grabbed my hand. She pulled me through the crowd on to the first available train without what appeared to be any effort.

    40. Re: Take your space by Garybaldy · · Score: 1

      Over 40, 43 to be exact live in Atlanta. If you are top stupid to pay attention. you deserve to get knocked down. If you pull a gun out and end my life. Guess who ends up in jail.

    41. Re: Take your space by Garybaldy · · Score: 1

      I can imagine the judge now. So you were not paying attention. With your face buried in a phone. You bumped into someone and you fell down. In self defense you shot them. Good luck with no lawyer. Heck, good luck with a lawyer.

    42. Re:Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Amen! I do the same thing. At nearly 6' 6" I just act like a wall and let them hit me. Then enjoy the squirming as they look up and try to apologize out of it. It's a good moment to let them know what rude asshats they are for not paying attention.

      I'm 5'6", and that's what I do - just stop.
      I stay on the right-hand side of the sidewalk, and if someone is walking on my side, oblivious or expecting me to get out of the way, I just stop and stand there.
      No one has ever bumped me when I do that. I have gotten some dirty looks and mumbling as they move around me, but that comes from the group-of-four that wants to walk side by side.

    43. Re:Take your space by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Because she's not real?

    44. Re: Take your space by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Bumping into someone on the sidewalk isn't "assault". For all you know, it was caught on video and the judge thinks you are the one who didn't yield, and committed assault, followed by murder.

    45. Re: Take your space by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      Humans are animals. All animals have instincts. I've walked through some rougher neighborhoods than most people will ever encounter in their lives.

      You know what startled people? I said "hi". A white guy walking through the bad part of the projects, most adults went inside and locked the doors. No good in their lives has ever come from a white person. But they kept an eye out as I passed, making sure that I passed. The neighborhood kids ran up and made all sorts of odd and racist comments. I just said "hi" with a smile and kept walking. A number of them followed me to my friend's house. The crime is high because "everyone" knows that the police doesn't go there. The people were nice, but the predators, none out at the time, know that they have no accountability in such neighborhoods.

    46. Re:Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately meeting force with force is never a long term solution. However desireable it might be, it just shows how happy people are to dish it out.

      Understandably as well. We live in a society built on force and based largely on force. It's a commonly held "solution" but is in fact a third rate solution. Many people have been abused and are cheering when the bully "get's it."

      The proper use of force is to use just as much as is needed to get someones attention and then to back off. Resuming at a level that is comfortable for the recipient. That could mean a fist fight, but for most people a loud "HEY!" will get their attention without the use of physical force.

      Many also never realizes what the effect is that they are creating until pointed out. And since most people hate being told how wrong they are it may require some finess in handling it to a good result. Here ethics presence comes handy.

      I'm not a big guy but was often the one chosen to bounce guys too big for the bouncers (at the nightclub). I simple consulted their understanding as to what is going on and things resolved very nicely. It's amazing what can be accomplished without any physical force. (I once brought down a big cop killer armed with a knife in a tight space by simply holding my space and not showing signs of being threatened. My weapon of choice - putting more value on the person than the money he offered to right his wrong (to me). But that's another (good) story. Point being that an idea is more powerful than the sword.

    47. Re:Take your space by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      He said "Every day I walk through one of the busiest train stations in the world."

      I doubt he's in the USA, so no longer being able to carry a firearm is likely not a deal breaker.

    48. Re:Take your space by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Two people refuse to yield, and collide, and you are blaming him why?

    49. Re:Take your space by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      Nothing pisses off a 3-wide group of assholes more than walking towards them, not dashing to the side, then stopping as you get close, so that they have to consciously split to get past. If you keep walking into them, they think you are the asshole. If you stop and make them think about themselves, then they get it.

    50. Re: Take your space by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      You may not be 12, but you're not from the south either. That's not the attitude there, or of concealed carry citizens (they've studied the pertinent laws). You're just an AC troll.

    51. Re:Take your space by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      No, he *doesn't* get out of *their* way and lets them bounce off.

    52. Re: Take your space by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      "... how about we get over the notion that all bad driving ever is caused by that, ok?" Done - since no one thought that or promoted it.

    53. Re: Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So you are willing to die to be right? Have fun with that.

    54. Re:Take your space by fisted · · Score: 1

      Mh, the link should link to *CA, not *CD

    55. Re: Take your space by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      So a dedicated GPS unit is ok (I mean shit, they actually sell them as standalone devices intended to be used while driving,) but using my phone for the same purpose is not?

      Fuck you. With a red hot iron poker in the ass.

    56. Re:Take your space by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      I'm going to be 100% honest here and say the situation shown in that video has never applied to me. When my phone beeps or rings and it isn't already in my hand, I don't bother with it, even when I'm not driving (probably because 99% of the time those beeps ore rings are events or people that I don't care to deal with right at the moment.)

      That said, I use my phone the same way somebody would use a map or a GPS unit that is sold for the express purpose of being used while driving.

    57. Re: Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Take it easy there little fella. Boasting about your gun isn't gonna make your dick stop being small.

    58. Re:Take your space by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I am with you on this. If you have a place to go, walk with determination. Don't look like you are in a hurry, just go.

      You left out the most important part: Don't look at anyone. You must look through them, as if they were below your notice entirely. Once you appear not just to have someplace to go but also to be completely oblivious of anyone in your path, that is when they tend to move out of your way of their own accord.

      It doesn't hurt that I'm over two meters and twenty stone, of course. If you're small, prepare to be ignored even harder.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    59. Re:Take your space by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      That's fine with people on their phones, but it's people on mobility scooters who are the real menace. You can't just stand your ground, those things will injure you.

      That's why you need to always wear a cape. ÂToro!

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    60. Re: Take your space by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      So a dedicated GPS unit is ok (I mean shit, they actually sell them as standalone devices intended to be used while driving,)

      WRONG. The devices explicitly tell you not to use them while driving on every boot. Your inability to read is not the responsibility of the manufacturer. It does speak to your general inability to use the devices ever, let alone while driving. You're unqualified. You should give up GPS technology immediately. Its use is restricted to those who can read.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    61. Re:Take your space by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

      But that doesn't matter.

    62. Re:Take your space by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Yup, the story headline needs to read, " are stupid people using smartphones as an excuse to be rude"

      The answer is yes. Dumb people are being dumber. Kudos for you, I will also stand my ground, a friend of mine that is 6ft 9 inches tall will actually plant his feet so he is a brick wall and then say, "sorry, I know I am kind of hard to see..."

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    63. Re:Take your space by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      people who text and drive need to be punched in the face.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    64. Re: Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yea I watch the wire no

    65. Re:Take your space by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      the situation shown in that video has never applied to me.

      Of course!

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    66. Re: Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, a dedicated GPS unit is not OK.

      If you actually bothered to read the little warning that pops up on them at power on (unless you selected the "never show this warning again" box after the first time), they actually tell you that the devices are not intended to be used (ie: fiddled with) while driving.

      Now, you might want to bend over yourself. I have a nice length of razor wire I've just wartmed up in the furnace that needs a new home.

      Twat.

    67. Re:Take your space by LinuxIsGarbage · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Except that in cities we have this concept of "keep right* except when passing." There is room for travel in both directions. If there isn't room, the obstruction is on one person's side, or the other person's side. The person on the side of the obstruction is expected to wait. Some people, mostly youngsters, haven't figured this out. But it is actually somewhat rare. Most of the people will sort themselves to the correct lane if you force them to. You're not in "their" way if you're on the right side of the sidewalk.

      * Some locations use a different side than this.

      Some people find this keep right except to pass on a sidewalk a strange concept... I think it's even in our motor vehicle act. Even on a sparsely populated suburban sidewalk I keep to the right edge so if a runner or a faster walker comes up behind me, I'm predictable and they can pass with ease. It irritates me to see slow walkers erratically walking all over the sidewalk making it difficult to pass.

      Sometimes people will walk two abreast, which is fine, but if you saw an oncoming walker you think you'd go single file. A surprising number of people (not just youngsters) fail to do this. I don't bowl them down, but I just keep walking till I'm a step from them, stop, then let them negotiate the fact that they can't just walk straight.

    68. Re: Take your space by LinuxIsGarbage · · Score: 1

      So a dedicated GPS unit is ok (I mean shit, they actually sell them as standalone devices intended to be used while driving,) but using my phone for the same purpose is not?

      Fuck you. With a red hot iron poker in the ass.

      Generally "Cellphone use while driving laws" will specify that devices like GPS (and a phone used as a GPS) must be in a mount. This reduces the fumbling to hold it, and can put the device in your line of sight, so a quick glance over to see the distance to turn, is a lot quicker than looking down at your lap. Further, in some cases for the laws, or at least in recommendations / manuals, you're only supposed to program your destination or otherwise configure the device, while the vehicle is stationary.

    69. Re:Take your space by rikkards · · Score: 1

      I had that when out for a run, I usually take the right hand 6" of side walk and when running I saw a guy about 200 yards in front of me walking the opposite direction right in the middle of the sidewalk. Needless to say he was quite shocked when I didn't move onto the grass. I outweighed him by probably 30lbs so he definitely felt it.
      Needless to say I don't think he will assume people will get out of his way from now on.

    70. Re:Take your space by aXis100 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There's plenty of time when "lanes" on a footpath dissapear and you have to be more dynamic in your pathfinding. People looking at their smarphone arent doing this to the point that it's rude.

    71. Re:Take your space by aXis100 · · Score: 1

      Singapore is shocking for people walking two abreast and not splitting up when someone else approaches. My mate has taken to walking into them too, scares the crap out of them.

    72. Re: Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cool story, bro.

    73. Re: Take your space by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Riiiight. That's why they have "avoid roadblock in 400 yard" options.

      But if their lawyers made them say it then it must be true!

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    74. Re:Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just go right through them. Crowds of international students filling up the whole sidewalk smoking, too.

    75. Re:Take your space by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1
      Did this for a long time, then almost got hit by an ambulance with siren on.

      Sadly people who walk and read are generally intelligent and busy (looking for extra information, instead of overwhelmed by it at least) and to loose a few during their learning period probably isn't great for society as a whole. Considering how few people do this it's amazing that they're even talking about it.

      It is a scary notion that this is replicating.

      Actually I used to run everywhere until I was about 8, enjoyed the exercise + hey more videogames! I only stopped because of social pressure, which is sad. Running gives people more time in their lives rather than spending less time at the Gym :) If you start young, you don't get stinky.

    76. Re: Take your space by glitch23 · · Score: 2

      Humans are not animals, unless you have chosen to fall for the lie of evolution. If you have fallen for that then by extension you believe that we have no morals to abide by (animals kill out of instinct so that means we can too). But humans know right from wrong and can choose to act accordingly. Animals, not so much. If you still disagree then you shouldn't mind people killing each other out of instinct. So the question is, would you mind that? Being mere animals also means we are no longer responsible for our actions because everything is an instinct rather than being based on a moral code of conduct. I advise you to rethink your statement. It has far reaching consequences.

      --
      this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
    77. Re:Take your space by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      I would be fine with assigned lanes with everyone keep-to-the-right (or left if you are in a country that leans that way). I usually stick to the right even when there is plenty of room to move if someone is on the wrong side. They usually figure out to get on their side of the walk by the time we meet.

      However the city I live in is laid out rather dumbly with every store putting tones of shit all over the too-narrow sidewalk, or those trap door to the basement things that are corroded and look dangerous to step on. You are lucky to have a single lane to get past.

      In that situation I am totally good with taking turns as long as everyone is keeping their head up and paying attention. If some douche is going to stick his head in his phone while moving through the one-lane section... he might get introduced to mister shoulder. Catch them in the arm, makes it more plausible you did it on accident, and more likely to knock the phone out of his hand.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    78. Re: Take your space by jrumney · · Score: 1

      You're unlikely to get robbed in a drug neighborhood, for example, because most people either don't have anything to steal, or have a weapon, or will fight to the death over their last $2.

      There's also the fact that the gang that controls distribution has no interest in increased police presence on their turf, so they tend to keep petty street crime under control.

    79. Re:Take your space by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      They usually figure out to get on their side of the walk by the time we meet.

      I like the look on their face when I stop, and they walk into shadow and then stop, and then look up... my nose.

      However the city I live in is laid out rather dumbly with every store putting tones of shit all over the too-narrow sidewalk,

      Futbol!

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    80. Re:Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't look at anyone. You must look through them, as if they were below your notice entirely.

      And you missed the most obvious point: Be really tall and solidly built. Not short, not scrawny, just really big. Once you are really big and moving, people tend to not want to get steamrolled.

    81. Re: Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      TL;DR
      A girl touched me once.

    82. Re: Take your space by RuffMasterD · · Score: 2

      Dang, you must think humans are special or something. I can't think of a single period in history when people weren't mindlessly killing each other, let alone other animals.

      Right now we have Syria, Iraq, Ukraine, Central African Republic, and Israel vs Palestine. Mexico just killed 43 students, plus countless other drug cartel related deaths we never hear about. A few years ago it was Libya, Egypt, and Mali. Since the end of the second world war... Pol Pot comes to mind, for killing 25% of the people of Cambodia in the 1970s. Rwanda genocide wiped out between 500,000 and 1,000,000 Rwandans during a 100 day period in 1994. Vietnam War, nuff said. The first and second world wars were simply meat grinders. The Nazis hardly even bothered to disguise the herding and butchering like animals of thousands of civilians per day.

      Humans are animals. We strut around in our fancy clothes, scratching ourselves, picking our noses, and pointing bang sticks at the other tribe.

      --
      Human Rights, Article 12: Freedom from Interference with Privacy, Family, Home and Correspondence
    83. Re:Take your space by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      Someone must have modeled this, but a footpath full of aware pedestrians is surprisingly functional as everyone magically navigates small gaps to make space for others. I work in the centre of a large city, and it's surprising how well things work until a jerk on a phone enters the fray, or a tourist staring and pointing while drifting in the another direction. I am also tall and bigger than most, with a history of rugby under my belt I will quite happily drop the shoulder on some unsuspecting jerk who thinks they don't have to play their part. It's surprising how far to can send someone flying when they aren't expecting it.

    84. Re:Take your space by aduxorth · · Score: 1

      It doesn't hurt that I'm over two meters and twenty stone, of course.

      Of course this helps in other places too, like clubs and bars. Bump into someone they turn around with an angry riled up look, then they look up, their face goes oh shit, then they turn around again. Doorways suck though :(

    85. Re:Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm average height, 1.74m and rarely have an issue. Admittedly tall does help but not as much as the attitude.

    86. Re:Take your space by SuperDre · · Score: 1

      haha, I agree completely with you.. Why should I move because the other is in 'my lane' but isn't paying attention to where he/she is walking..
      And I agree especially with your remark on movie theatre texters...... haha...

    87. Re:Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very Funny, +5 funny. You should do some standup, or maybe you cant..

    88. Re:Take your space by Tom · · Score: 1

      I am with you on this. If you have a place to go, walk with determination. Don't look like you are in a hurry, just go.

      This used to work, it doesn't work anymore.

      I've been using this trick for more than a decade. If your body language shows clearly that you're not going to give way, that you will go where you want to go and if you have to kill someone to do it, you will, crowds part in front of you like waves for a ship. Well, it's not movie-perfect, of course, but largely it works like a charm.

      But it works because people see and subconsciously understand your body language. Mobile users are not paying attention. You are, at best, in the far corner of their visual field, where the retinal resolution is too low to discern nuances of posture. They will not understand that it's better for them to move a little left, they will walk right into you.

      Source: Been there, done that.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    89. Re:Take your space by rioki · · Score: 2

      Funny you say that. i have noticed that this depends on the size of the city. For example, I currently live in a medium sized European city (Karlsruhe, Garmany). This is the largest city in the area and as a result many people "go to town"; which results in quite a chaos in down town on a Saturday. The average person is incapable of negotiating a crowded area. In contrast, cities like Paris, Berlin or Munich this was never an issue. The flow of people is almost always running quite smoothly... until a Tourist stumbles on the scene. You also don't see many people using their smartphone while walking; because you can't. If you use your smart phone you either get bumped into or run in front of a tram or bus.

    90. Re:Take your space by KlomDark · · Score: 1

      You sound short

    91. Re:Take your space by Toad-san · · Score: 1

      I'm a fairly large person as well, so I have no problems whatsoever in stopping, holding my ground, and letting the oblivious asses walk into ME! They usually look quite irritated (although they seldom dare to get angry with me, what with the size and all).

      I'm usually very polite, but these asses are pushing the limits. So I just won't take it any more.

    92. Re:Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If people are walking two abreast, showing no signs of moving, split them. Bonus points if one is startled into the mud on the side of the walk.

    93. Re:Take your space by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      Well you can only make people that are paying attention move. If there is plenty of room on the sidewalk and they are not walking against the flow, whatever. I don't even recall the last person I bumped into, accidentally or not. But, I think the theme of this thread is the people walking around with their head down deserve to get run into.

      Perhaps they will learn to pay attention in the future. If they are lucky they will run into a person and not into a car.

      Though, it does remind me. I once saw a cellphone-walker walk straight into the side of a stopped city bus that was blocking a crosswalk. Multiple people saw it coming and did nothing to prevent it. Everyone (including the person involved) had a good laugh.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    94. Re:Take your space by mlts · · Score: 2

      I have given up on theaters except for the Alamo Drafthouse here in Austin. Where other theaters have the constant people prattling and tapping on their devices, I have seen the ADH ushers be pretty proactive at tossing the texters and the yakkers out.

      Long term, with people's tempers already raw, I wonder how long it will take until brawls start happening because people end up just sick and tired of the phone zombies, be it the cretin with one finger in his ear, screaming into his phone, or the people expecting others to clear a trail for them on the road. It only is a matter of time before this starts rubbing people past their breaking point.

      As for lanes... good luck with that as pedestrians, that is great in theory, but once you get the people walking 3-5 abreast, that idea is going to go out the window unless there is a physical barrier preventing people from doing that.

    95. Re:Take your space by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I'm average height, 1.74m and rarely have an issue. Admittedly tall does help but not as much as the attitude.

      The attitude is definitely the most important component. I used to live down in the flats of Santa Cruz, the most efficient way to downtown was to walk down Barson st. which at least at the time was where the budget whores hung out. Kind of a seedy neighborhood in general, right? This was a group house of mixed gender and one of the women who lived there never got hassled walking down that street, while another did pretty much every time. And the primary difference was posture.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    96. Re:Take your space by dave-man · · Score: 2

      I don't think this is a smartphone problem. I think it is an attention and etiquette problem. Children in particular are not educated by the parents to have good manners. Keeps me out of malls and on Amazon.

      --
      Bill Gates is a communist -- he's just more equal than the rest of us.
    97. Re: Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's hilarious how all the big-dicks are quick call someone with a gun (911) when they're in the littlest bit of trouble.

      However, to be fair, the parent poster was a little too macho...

    98. Re:Take your space by cusco · · Score: 1

      I've noticed this on the bus, generally if some jackass is taking up a second seat with his bag on a crowded bus they're under 30. There's one jerk who sits in the back row and deliberately sits spanning two seats, even when there are dozens of people standing. I make it a point to make him move over so that I can sit down, and if there is anyone nearby who I think needs the seat more I'll almost immediately get up and offer it to them.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    99. Re: Take your space by Lallo · · Score: 1

      "Too many people period are idiots about not negotiating equitable space that I just bowl them down." Showing that you are unwilling to negotiate for sidewalk space, which shows you to be equal parts asshat and hypocrite. Grow up.

    100. Re: Take your space by Lallo · · Score: 0

      Yes, because frequently KNOCKING PEOPLE TO THE GROUND because you don't like what they're doing is the correct response. Not rude at all. Certainly not arguable as assault.

    101. Re:Take your space by Rato+Ruter · · Score: 1

      Luck you! I'm 1.90m tall and weight over a 100Kg, but even though I can (and used to) do the same as you, when my wife is nearby she complains and get in a bad mood if I do that.

    102. Re: Take your space by cusco · · Score: 1

      You really don't understand evolution at all. The development of morality stems from evolution among social animals such as buffalo, horses or chickens. Observe a herd of horses, a pack of canines, or a flock of crows. They each have a moral structure to their societies, which has evolved to further their species' survival (an individual's survival is unimportant to evolution, only the group's survival).

      Rather amusing that a religious fanatic quotes an atheist politician's words celebrating a battle fought to overthrow a practice supported by both the Old and New Testament.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    103. Re:Take your space by cusco · · Score: 1

      Some stupid woman in my wife's store ran into a post in the middle of the aisle Saturday night because she was too busy texting. She then proceeded to the front of the store, demanded to see the manager on duty, and told her that there should be a beeper on the post so that people would know it was there.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    104. Re: Take your space by cusco · · Score: 1

      Generally if they're too stupid to use GPS they'll probably be too stupid to know how to read a map as well. So now they're stuck at home, I'd say that's a win for everyone! (except them of course)

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    105. Re:Take your space by Fortran+IV · · Score: 1

      "...over two meters and twenty stone..."

      I do love the metric system so.

      --
      I figure by 2030 or so my 6-digit UID will be something to brag about.
    106. Re:Take your space by Triklyn · · Score: 1

      :) put my phone into airplane mode someone during trailer time. Never bring out the phone during the actual movie... unless i'm really starting to wonder how long the movie runs for... which says something very specific about the movie i guess.

    107. Re:Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Intent. The cell phone looker, while a douche, is not intending to bully others. The bully, who states his intention is to knock people over, *is* intending to cause harm.

    108. Re: Take your space by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      We are special and know how to do it safely. Rules are for other people.

      True of most people for most rules. After all, it isn't the fact that murder is illegal that stops most people; it's the fact that it's repugnant.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    109. Re:Take your space by MarbleMunkey · · Score: 2

      They usually figure out to get on their side of the walk by the time we meet.

      I like the look on their face when I stop, and they walk into shadow and then stop, and then look up... my nose.

      This! So much this!
      I've had people (usually college age girls) walk right into me; No clue that I was even there. The reactions are priceless.

    110. Re: Take your space by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Humans are not animals, unless you have chosen to fall for the lie of evolution.

      We aren't animals, but animal testing works. How?

      If you have fallen for that then by extension you believe that we have no morals to abide by (animals kill out of instinct so that means we can too).

      No, I don't. Your logic doesn't work. Because you understand electricity, you must be a thundercloud. That's 100x more logical than your statement, but provably wrong.

      So the question is, would you mind that?

      What I would like to be reality doesn't change reality. So whether I'd mind is irrelevant.

      Being mere animals also means we are no longer responsible for our actions because everything is an instinct rather than being based on a moral code of conduct. I advise you to rethink your statement. It has far reaching consequences.

      It has no such consequences. Having instincts doesn't mean one has only instincts.

    111. Re:Take your space by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      To a 3rd party observer, how can you tell? If the bully held a cell phone, he'd be blameless too?

    112. Re:Take your space by nightsky30 · · Score: 2

      Can the beeper sound like, "DERP, DERP"?

    113. Re: Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not rude. Know your role!!!

    114. Re:Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Being small make it even easier to negotiate crowds since people think you're "getting out of the way" when you're really just navigating around them, just out of notice.

    115. Re: Take your space by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it's no coincidence then that I have and use one of those. I got mine for about $10 on Amazon.

    116. Re: Take your space by weweedmaniii · · Score: 1

      Welcome to Europe! If you scream assault you will be laughed at. I am currently immigrating to the Netherlands, there are bike lanes all over the country, they are bike lanes not for anything else. My first time there, being a tourist I stopped on a bike lane to take a photo...the man who ran me over never apologized he just hit me and continued on...my Bride and in-laws politely informed me I was wrong and photos should be taken off the bike path. They also were snickering as I was picking myself up after being hit.

      --
      "If stupid things work...then they are not stupid."
    117. Re:Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't just stand your ground, those things will injure you.

      "I won't lie to you, Neo. Everyone who stood their ground, everyone who fought a mobility scooter riding, cellphone wielding agent, died. But where they failed, you will succeed."
      "Do you mean I can dodge a speeding scooter?"
      "No. I mean when you are ready, you won't have to!"

    118. Re:Take your space by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      I live in a small touristy town with a lot of visitors and window shoppers. Sidewalk navigation is unpredictable at best. Sudden stops, people veering from one side or the other to look at something, the odd dance where they step forward to look, then backward to take it all in, thus blocking traffic in both directions. We also get a lot of families who apparently think if they're not walking side-by-side they'll get separated and lost or something and refuse to scoot over for oncoming walkers. I'm usually more interested in getting by, and thus skip around the far side of parking meters or into the road itself if there's room, but I've often been tempted to just hold my place and see if they run straight into me.

    119. Re: Take your space by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      To be clear, it's not that frequent, just special times when it's called for. Evil happens when good men do nothing. Or some shit.

    120. Re:Take your space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You left out the most important part: Don't look at anyone. You must look through them, as if they were below your notice entirely.

      So just like cell-phone users right? I guess that brings us back to TFA :)

  2. List of folks with permanent rights of way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1. SUV and pickup truck drivers

    2. Women with baby strollers

    3. Bicyclists

    4. People interacting with their smartphones

    1. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      5) Farm equipment on the road

      6) Profit!

    2. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by pspahn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      3. Bicyclists

      You haven't ridden a bike since you were 16, have you?

      Do you think cyclists feel entitled to their right of way to the point where they are oblivious to oncoming collisions? If that were true, don't you think after, say, six months, there wouldn't be any cyclists left because they had all been run over?

      Walking down the street with a screen attached to your face and being oblivious to the world around you is a lot different than riding a bike through a busy intersection and dodging every third car driven by someone with a screen attached to their face.

      --
      Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
    3. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do you think cyclists feel entitled to their right of way to the point where they are oblivious to oncoming collisions?

      Yes.

    4. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by ATMAvatar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      3. Bicyclists

      That one goes both ways. I see plenty of entitled cyclists asserting right of way when they don't have it, but I have also seen a number of times where drivers are either oblivious or malicious to bicyclists, nearly running them down. This includes cases where there are bike lanes and the cars feel the need to cross into said lanes for nothing more than getting around another car or running through crosswalks despite the signal and despite having a red.

      tl:dr: people are dicks, especially on the road

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    5. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you think cyclists feel entitled to their right of way to the point where they are oblivious to oncoming collisions?

      They feel entitled to everything. Which life a living hell for real cyclists like me.

    6. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      You haven't ridden a bike since you were 16, have you?

      Do you think cyclists feel entitled to their right of way to the point where they are oblivious to oncoming collisions? If that were true, don't you think after, say, six months, there wouldn't be any cyclists left because they had all been run over?

      You haven't driven a car through a city since you were 16, right?

    7. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by pspahn · · Score: 1

      What are you saying? Please elaborate.

      --
      Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
    8. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by chmod+a+x+mojo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      He's saying the truth. 8-9 / 10 asshats on bikes don't follow the rules of the road that they are legally required to. Just a few things:

      1: don't stop for stop signs... many times not even slowing down, then expecting traffic to magically not hit them. I have personally witnessed several tickets being handed out to them since my city is FINALLY starting to crack down on them, they will even do it right in front of a cop....
      2: riding on sidewalks instead of using the apparently wasted bike lanes, and hitting people walking ( you know the ones that belong on the sidewalks ). Happens with different asshats several times a month in my city alone, and I doubt it is a fluke since you see all the other asshattery anywhere you go. Hell because of #1 I have been hit by a stupid ass biker in a fucking crosswalk with the light in MY favor.
      3: they observe speed limits worse than 4-wheel car drivers. School zone? Still going as fast as possible, on the sidewalk where they don't belong. They should be ticketed just as if a car was speeding ( this does occasionally happen, just needs to more often).

      There you go, took mere minutes to come up with just a few things that 80% of the observed bike riders do to make everyone look down on bike riders. Sucks for the last 10-20% that actually are courteous, but then maybe THEY should start bashing heads of the rest if they want their image to look better.

      --
      To err is human; effective mayhem requires the root password!
    9. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      after, say, six months, there wouldn't be any cyclists left because they had all been run over

      If only.

    10. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All signs point to yes. I'm amazed when I see bicyclists actually follow the rules of the road. They ride in the lane when traffic is moving, slowing them down. They ride on the side when they want to pass traffic stopped at a light. They don't stop at lights or stop signs. And if they can't get down the side when traffic is stopped, they ride on the sidewalk. And groups of them are even worse because they take up the bike lane and the entire road.

    11. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Honestly he seemed rather polite. At least he was making enough noise to let other's know that there's an asshole approaching, most are a lot sneaker about it.

    12. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree bicycles do not belong on sidewalks unless they are ridden by toddlers with training wheels.

      But where do you live that bicycles are regularly exceeding speed limits? Unless it's a steep hill, most bicyclists are rarely going to sustain more than about 18-20 mph and that is only quite fit ones. You either have absurdly low speed limits, a bunch of extreme athletes, or perhaps you've mistaken something motor-assisted for a bicycle.

    13. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1

      A few weeks ago I had my dog on a bike harness and we were cycling / galloping down a street in Salt Lake City (about 15 mph). Some guy was yakking on his phone and obliviously started wandering backwards off the curb into an intersection while facing 180 degrees away. I slammed on the brakes (along with someone driving a car) and my dog's leash broke off its safety hitch since he'd made a split second decision to pass the guy on his right side. The dude turned around and said, "what the hell [can't you see I'm on the phone here]?" This was in Salt Lake City; I didn't know he could have been fined $50. Although around here, they ticket cyclists for not having their bikes registered. The rules for driving in Utah are shocking to anyone from out-of-state; they were apparently written for demolition derby. I've seen safer driving in Mad Max movies. You have right of way if you think someone can slam on their brakes and leave streaks in the road without T-boning your ass. (I guess you have to, since you can never see around the guy next to you straddling the crosswalk with his Ford F300.) I'm always seeing drivers holding phones against their heads and gesticulating with their other hand to people who aren't physically present, instead of actually touching the steering wheel. (And I won't say much about the baby strollers around here, except that they're often going side-by-side in formation.)

    14. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      You either have absurdly low speed limits, a bunch of extreme athletes, or perhaps you've mistaken something motor-assisted for a bicycle.

      He did say "in a school zone", which is not uncommon to have a speed limit of 15-20 at the start and end of the school day, when the sidewalks and streets are going to be lousy with buses, cars, and pedestrians.

    15. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      It depends on the location. In the Pacific Northwest there are clear rules for sharing the road, and if you don't share it with bicyclists you will hit them, because they really do use the space allotted to them. You'll probably lose your license, too, if it was your fault. Vehicle-on-bicycle or -pedestrian is taken seriously. If your phone records show you were distracted, and you kill them, you'll go to prison. Real prison.

      As a pedestrian, if it is my turn, I can walk. They *will* yield. I understand, in Boston I'd be dead and even the cops would blame me. But that isn't universal.

    16. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm amazed when I see bicyclists actually follow the rules of the road. They ride in the lane when traffic is moving, slowing them down.

      Taking up the lane is following the rules of the road. If you get slowed down because of it, tuff shit for you. A bike slowing down cars is no different than a carriage, farm equipment, construction equipment or any other slow moving vehicle.

    17. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Aighearach · · Score: 4, Informative

      In Idaho bicycles can treat stop signs as yield signs. When a bike does a "rolling-stop" through a stop-sign, it is called an "Idaho stop." Many states are legalizing it. It passes most places it is considered. Expect it to be the norm in 20 years. Just like, there was a time where only a few states allowed a right turn at a red light; now it is nearly universal. Because it works. My dad told me a story about driving in the midwest when he was a kid, and they didn't have that rule yet. He made a right turn on red, and had people shouting at him for just brazenly running a light! lol "it just seemed so natural"

      In my State bicycles are allowed to use the sidewalks. Also, vechicles with 3-or-less wheels that are hardware limited to 15mph or less are considered bicycles, and can also use the sidewalk. (this was to allow Segways without going into the weeds and endorsing specific wheel configurations) Luckily, pedestrians have the right-of-way and the bicycles are required to always yield.

      The speed limit applies to the street, not the sidewalk. They'll beat that ticket. However, many places have a rule that bicycles on the sidewalk have to go walking speed, so there might be a different non-speeding ticket they can get. Most cyclists don't actually go over the 20MPH of a school zone, certainly not over 25 which is the normal real speed. (limit+5 is standard for cars, except in places where it is limit+8)

      There are real problems with cyclists that ride poorly and don't follow the rules, but I'm not convinced you know the rules well enough that you're driving according to them. ;)

    18. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      All but 1 of those things are the correct, legal way to ride in most places.

    19. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Idaho bicycles can treat stop signs as yield signs. When a bike does a "rolling-stop" through a stop-sign, it is called an "Idaho stop."

      That fine and good except bikes are ignoring that yield part.

    20. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There would be a lot fewer cyclists if automobile drivers were as big a dicks as cyclists are.

    21. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by PPH · · Score: 1

      Expect it to be the norm in 20 years.

      That's OK. Quite a few aftermarket suppliers are doing a brisk business selling 'Idaho Stop' bars for trucks and SUVs. These used to be called 'bull bars', used to protect the trucks grill and radiator from damage from wandering livestock. They work for bicycles just as well.

      But seriously; cyclists already blow through stop signs without looking. And that's fine if you know what you are doing. But some kid is going to see a skilled adult doing this and follow the example without the experience. Result: squashed kid.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    22. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Think of the children!

      But seriously; your argument is that a traffic maneuver that increases safety for the vast majority of users should be illegal because some parents are so neglectful that they won't teach their kids how to be a safe bicyclist will perform it incorrectly.

      Great!

    23. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > In my State bicycles are allowed to use the sidewalks.

      People like you are such narcissists. Nobody cares that it is your state. Literally nobody.
      Tells us which state it is, or don't even bother mentioning it.

    24. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Around here in Southern England, we have split pedestrian/bicycle markings in some places, where cyclists are supposed to ride on one side of a white line and pedestrians are supposed to walk on the other. Of course, nine out of ten pedestrians ignore the line and walk on whatever side they feel like and then cyclists break the rules to get past the pedestrians. The whole thing is a waste of time; they might as well designate the entire width as being for both pedestrians and cyclists and rely on cyclists being careful when they pass pedestrians, because that's effectively what happens. (In other locations, they do designate the entire width for both types of user.)

      As an occasional cyclist, I'm always frustrated by the apparent deafness of pedestrians in these shared areas. I've got a fairly loud bell on my bike, and yet I still get people act surprised, give me dirty looks and even yell out "USE YOUR BELL!" as I carefully pass them at 2-3 mph, even though I've been ringing the damn thing like crazy on the approach to warn them of my presence! At the other extreme, some people think I'm being impatient for ringing it so much and say things like "All right! I heard you!". You just can't win!

      That said, I have not noticed a particular problem with people being distracted by phones while walking. In fact, I haven't really noticed people using phones much at all while walking. At the very least, people seem to put the phone away when they need to cross the street. I come across more people who are distracted by their conversation with the person they are physically walking with. Maybe it's a regional thing.

      It's worth noting that pedestrians do actually have ultimate priority on most general purpose roads in the United Kingdom. In most cases, it is entirely legal to cross the road while the red man is showing on the pedestrian signals. Of course, if you try to cross when a vehicle is actually approaching, you'll get honked at and possibly be verbally abused, but when there's time to cross safely, crossing on red is pretty much expected behaviour. People who install traffic signals at junctions don't seem to bother to optimise the pedestrian signals, and sometimes they stay red for minutes while all the traffic that could possibly come your way has actually been stopped at the lights to allow traffic from other directions to flow. If you strictly obey the lights, you can sometimes be standing around for several minutes, missing two or three large gaps in the traffic until the lights pedantically turn green at the allotted point in the sequence when pedestrians may cross. This is annoying on shared pedestrian/cyclist crossings, because it IS illegal to cross at a red light on a bicycle. You're unlikely to get punished for it though, unless you don't look out for traffic. The social (as opposed to legal) expectation in this situation is the same as for pedestrians; you are expected to cross when it's safe, rather than when the lights say you can cross.

    25. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by PPH · · Score: 1

      a traffic maneuver that increases safety for the vast majority of users

      [citation needed]

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    26. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Yep, cyclists aren't passive. They will scream abuse as pedestrians who dare use the hiking trail in front of them, and bang on the side of my car to make sure I don't turn suddenly.

    27. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Kremmy · · Score: 1

      Riding a bicycle while making an honest attempt to follow the rules of the road is by far one of the most frightening experiences, period.
      Car drivers will often merge into the bicycle lane to make a right turn. Some of the bicycle lines are dashed to show that this is acceptable, because it's technically the legal way things are supposed to be done. For the bicyclist however, this means that you're constantly at risk of being slammed into by car drivers who are doing what they're supposed to do and the only thing you can do about it is refuse to follow the rules. You don't always hear the car coming up behind you, especially if the streets are busy and traffic is getting hectic.
      I've found that the safest way to ride is almost always by doing the OPPOSITE of what you're legally obligated to do. Ride against traffic in the bike lane, making it so you are face to face with the people who are most at risk of hitting you. Make eye contact with drivers as you approach. This also helps with people who are parked and opening their doors. People are more likely to recognize you are there because they have a face coming at them, which the human brain is very adept at spotting. I hang back at intersections and wait until it's actually safe to proceed because I can't trust drivers to accept that a bicyclist has any right-of-way. Too many near misses when doing things the "right" way. The rate of close calls that I've experienced has been drastically reduced since I stopped trying to "share the road".

    28. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by omfgnosis · · Score: 1

      As a pedestrian, if it is my turn, I can walk. They *will* yield.

      In Seattle, especially in the downtown/Belltown area in my experience, this is becoming less of a safe assumption. When I worked in Belltown, it was a rare day that I wasn't nearly hit by an impatient driver; now, working closer into the downtown core, the near-collisions are somewhat less but still far too frequent for comfort.

      I do tend to assert my right of way where the vehicle's speed is not likely to do serious harm, because I'm not ready to give up safe pedestrian right of way that I've become accustomed to. But there are also times I have to actively dodge an oncoming vehicle to ensure my safety.

    29. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by LinuxIsGarbage · · Score: 1

      What are you saying? Please elaborate.

      Some bicyclists are good, have proper lane discipline, signal, obay lights / signs, others don't. Some of the worst cyclists I have ever seen:

      -At a signalized crosswalk on a 6 lane road. All four lanes came to a stop for the pedestrian who had activated the overhead flashing lights (eg: it was obvious all traffic had stopped for a pedestrian). I was in the curb lane on the ped's destination side of the road. She was in front of my car and I happened to notice in my right mirror Lance Armstrong coming up the gutter at full speed, oblivious to the overhead flashing lights, and lineup of stopped cars. I sounded the horn, which startled the pedestrian, but cause her to stop and not step in front of the bike. I should have had the passenger deploy their door.

      -One 3 way stop I used to go through a lot. Curb lane was RIGHT TURN ONLY, inside lane was straight lane. Bicycles would continuously run the stop sign going straight in the gutter of the curb lane. WTF? How can bicycles complain about being hooked if they pass turning traffic in a turn only lane that all have their signals on? The vehicles don't expect someone to be passing illegally like this. If they want to pass going straight, they should split the lanes. Bikes talk about "taking the lane". I started "taking the gutter" at this and other intersections. Driving as close to the curb as possible to prevent bikes from trying to pass when I'm trying to turn right.

      -Amsterdam, land of the bicycle, at a major intersection pedestrians had a green light. A big sea of pedestrians were crossing the road, when suddenly perpendicular to the pedestrians a bike was going against the signal, ringing his bell "DING DING DING DING" plowing through pedestrians that had the right of way.

      To me, carefully crossing against a signal (slow, look, proceed), and driving on the sidewalk aren't as bad as this. Unfortunately there's a lot of bad apples that give the few good bicyclists a bad name. I will respect bicyclists if they respect other people.

    30. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Locando · · Score: 1

      8-9 / 10 asshats on bikes don't follow the rules of the road that they are legally required to.

      You realize that laws are made by humans, and in many cases they are created for the benefit of only certain groups, independent of what is just or most practical, right? It's the same as with pirating music, smoking weed, or speeding on the freeway. If all you have to go on is "but it's the LAW!" then you don't have much of an argument, never mind an excuse to be as pissed off as you are. In other words, if you think there is some decent, equitable reason why bikes should be required to stop at stop signs, go on, explain it.

      Sucks for the last 10-20% that actually are courteous, but then maybe THEY should start bashing heads of the rest if they want their image to look better.

      There are more bad drivers, so can you start bashing their heads first? Oh wait, that's impractical, isn't it. Back to what you said: Since when did I become responsible for the actions of people I've never met simply because they use the same mode of transport as I do? Asshole bikers piss me off probably more than they piss you off, considering that I have to share bike paths with them. But if we're going to discuss this stuff like reasonable people, rather than screaming and expecting things based on feelings that the world owes us something, there's no place for talking about image. People feel that cyclists are dangerous and feel that SUVs are safe and feel that the economy is improving and feel that Jenny McCarthy can be trusted when she says vaccines might cause autism.

      A lot of the best ideas in the world have bad PR. And we as a nation have a huge self-entitlement problem — especially on the part of those whose politics are the most self-proclaimedly selfless, good God — that I doubt is getting any better as the years go by. To assume that it's limited to just people on bikes (or whatever other smallish category you want to come up with) is to scapegoat on the basis of popularity, normality, or some other attribute of convenience.

    31. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Do you think cyclists feel entitled to their right of way to the point where they are oblivious to oncoming collisions? If that were true, don't you think after, say, six months, there wouldn't be any cyclists left because they had all been run over?

      You're assuming they're on the roads, where the cars and vans and buses and trucks are. Round here the precious snowflakes are mostly on the pavement(UK)/sidewalk(US), so sadly the person who tends to get run over isn't them but elderly and infirm people or small children.

      By the way, I used to ride a bike before it was fashionable - heck, it was practically illegal. But I used to obey the highway code.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    32. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by mjwx · · Score: 2

      3. Bicyclists

      You haven't ridden a bike since you were 16, have you?

      Do you think cyclists feel entitled to their right of way to the point where they are oblivious to oncoming collisions?

      You haven't ridden a bike since you were 16 have you.

      Cyclists will happily turn into traffic without as second thought and expect everyone else to get out their way. I've got a nice highlight reel from my dashcam of cyclists behaving badly. Some of my favourites are people riding right at me the wrong way down the road... and they're all on the road because they hate slower pedestrians getting in their way the same way cyclists get in the way of motorists (oh the irony).

      People walking with their heads buried in their phones are extremely rude, but the Lycra warriors on their bikes are the gods that the rude and inconsiderate pray to. They have no consideration for other road users and are so arrogant that they never believe anything they do can be wrong.

      If that were true, don't you think after, say, six months, there wouldn't be any cyclists left because they had all been run over?

      No, the cyclists are trying to get laws changed in every western country to make the driver automatically responsible for any accident with a cyclist regardless of what actually happened. One of the big reasons I have a dash cam is because cyclists are so reckless. This has only been reinforced by new research in my city (Perth, Western Australia) that cyclists are at fault the majority of the time (along the lines of 60% of collisions).

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    33. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was on a bicycle approaching a 4-way stop. There was no oncoming traffic but I stopped completely anyway because the visibility at the intersection wasn't particularly great (safety first, even though I could have done a rolling-stop). I was hit from behind by a guy in a massive SUV. I was OK, but my rear wheel was damaged. The driver of the SUV said he hit me by accident because he assumed I wouldn't actually stop at the intersection !

    34. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by dave420 · · Score: 1

      ... and then using cars, causing even more traffic for you to deal with.

    35. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (1) They're called mirrors.
      (2) Riding the bike in the opposite direction of travel is insanely dangerous. Lets say the road speed limit is 40 MPH. You are inviting a 60MPH head on collision from a driver who may unexpectedly swerve, instead of a 20MPH bump from behind. In addition, you are reducing the driver's reaction time. A stationary object in a roadway is scary enough when going 40, you've decided to be an unpredictable object coming *towards* the driver, worse than a stationary object!

      Also, cars turning right might glance right, see a bike in the bike lane 30 feet away, and figure it is either stationary or moving *away* from them, certainly not towards them!

    36. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Ryanrule · · Score: 1

      some asshole biker ran a red light and almost pegged my gf the other night. motherfucker was lucky, i engage in disproportionate retribution. fucking beardy would have been eating his bike.

    37. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Ryanrule · · Score: 1

      fuck that. ban that, dont legalize.

    38. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Idaho bicycles can treat stop signs as yield signs. When a bike does a "rolling-stop" through a stop-sign, it is called an "Idaho stop." Many states are legalizing it. It passes most places it is considered. Expect it to be the norm in 20 years.

      Idaho passed that law over 30 years ago. Less than 5 cities/counties have since adopted it and no other states. Why do you expect that in the next 20 years it is suddenly going to take off?

    39. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by cusco · · Score: 1

      I generally wear boots, and will give them a good kick in the quarter panel if they've cut me off. Scares the crap out of them, they think they've hit someone and their insurance will go up.

      The issue I run into more often in Bellevue is people coming out of a parking lot driveway waiting for traffic to clear and only looking one direction to see if cars are coming, oblivious to the fact that pedestrians even exist. (The T-Mobile headquarters is especially bad for this.) If I'm in front of them and they start to move I'll slap my hand down hard on their hood to let them know I'm there. The better ones are appalled that they almost ran someone down, the executive-looking BMW types are just annoyed that I've touched their precious baby.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    40. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depending on the state they might have the right to ride their bike on the side walk. I know that in Washington you can ride on the sidewalk, but you must follow the laws of pedestrians

    41. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've found that the safest way to ride is almost always by doing the OPPOSITE of what you're legally obligated to do. Ride against traffic in the bike lane, making it so you are face to face with the people who are most at risk of hitting you. Make eye contact with drivers as you approach..

      You are playing with your life, there is a reason the rules are there, so to try and force some semblance of order and save lives.. you riding against traffic will shortly get you run over when someone is making a right turn and looking left to make sure no one following the rules is coming, then comes you and bump bump you are run over.

    42. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      They won't be using cars if they get run over properly.

    43. Re: List of folks with permanent rights of way by Kremmy · · Score: 1

      Riding toward them gives me the only chance I have to avoid that swerve. Thanks for suggesting I should get fucked without seeing It coming!

    44. Re: List of folks with permanent rights of way by Kremmy · · Score: 1

      Which is why I hang back and pay attention at intersections. On the 'correct' side of the road, the guy would merge into me in the situation You describe. I am saving my life.

    45. Re:List of folks with permanent rights of way by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      He doesn't need a citation to mention something easily searchable. Stop being a baby. I know you're new here, but you're not that green. Surely you're capable of doing a basic search on the context: "Idaho stop traffic safety." According to wikipedia there was 1 study and it showed a slight increase in safety.

      The reason for "citation needed" when not actually posting to wikipedia is to challenge the accuracy of something asserted, where you believe the actual citation would disprove the claim, or prove biased sources.

      In this case, you're requesting a citation, where you could have easily checked and found out that the only source agrees with the claim. People who actually care to read the study would have searched for it right away, and wouldn't have relied on a link anyways. They'd have to do a search even with the link, to find out if it was to the most relevant study.

      Also, the maneuver in question increases bicycle rule compliance in general, it doesn't decrease it. The grandparent's logic for it being dangerous to children is absurd; children need to be supervised, and "what would children do if they don't learn anything and just try to mimic adult behavior" is not a valid basis for writing law. If a person bought into that, they'd have to agree to ban anything for adults that is not also suitable for children. It goes way beyond "think of the children" and is somehow even stupider.

  3. Self-absorbtion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    From what I observe, people are increasingly self-absorbed. Phones are certainly part of it, but I'm often surprised when I see a driver behaving like someone on a phone, but when I can see them clearly, they're not on a phone or doing anything else, they're just spaced out / lost in daydreaming.

  4. Cellphone morons by technical_maven · · Score: 5, Funny

    I love walking in to people like that on purpose and then saying, "Oh... Sorry..." I secretly hope they drop their damn phone!

    1. Re:Cellphone morons by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Informative

      Use more force to ensure success.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Cellphone morons by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Me too, but only if they are smaller than me or don't look like a pirate wannabe.

    3. Re:Cellphone morons by nitehawk214 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Learn from hockey. Lead with the shoulder, if you are a bit taller crouch down a bit to catch them in the chest. If you are short, jump a bit right at the moment of contact, the refs will never call charging on the short guys.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    4. Re:Cellphone morons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Learn from hockey. Lead with the shoulder

      Lean from Gordie Howe. Lead with the elbow.

    5. Re:Cellphone morons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Learn from hockey. Lead with the shoulder, if you are a bit taller crouch down a bit to catch them in the chest. If you are short, jump a bit right at the moment of contact, the refs will never call charging on the short guys.

      And tape the shit out of the butt of your stick, then just after your body obscures the ref's view, jam that fucker up into the other's solar plexus. As they're going down, drop your knee guard right into the middle of the other's thigh and charlie horse the fuck out of it. Then as they try to get up, pretend to slip and hit their faceguard with an open palm and drive their head back onto the ice—er, I mean the sidewalk.

      Sorry, was I being too literal there?

    6. Re:Cellphone morons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Learn from hockey. Lead with the shoulder [...]

      As Sheryl Sandberg's book says, you need to lean in. There is a whole movement around it at http://leanin.org/.

    7. Re:Cellphone morons by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Leave a few banana peels around.

    8. Re:Cellphone morons by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      Agree, got to put your weight into it. Disappointed that website had nothing to do with hockey, though.

      Read the list of articles on the front page, still have no idea what the movement is about. Though I can take a guess since the only article that had a picture of a guy on the homepage started with "A stay at home dad..."

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
  5. Tie your shoes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Pretend to tie your shoes if you feel like being run off the sidewalk is immenint. This is the perfect strategy when people fly in formation taking up the entire sidewalk but refuse to move for people walking the other direction.

    1. Re:Tie your shoes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends on where you live. I've lived in towns where that's just a great way to get knocked on your ass. (Also, most of the time I wear loafers... then what am I supposed to do?)

    2. Re:Tie your shoes by greg1104 · · Score: 1

      It's a great idea to wear loafers and stop periodically to tie your shoes; people will go out of their way to avoid your personal space. No one wants to collide with a crazy person.

    3. Re:Tie your shoes by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      It is more effective to stop and give them a really nasty mean-face. Pretending to tie your shoes is so passive-aggressive you've lost the aggression, and any potential influence on their future behavior.

      If you whack them in the head they'll just learn there are evil people who will assault them. It wouldn't work. But dirty looks in a context where they have to modify their behavior and go around, it can have deep psychological impact on their subconscious attitudes.

    4. Re:Tie your shoes by turp182 · · Score: 1

      Nasty face isn't required, just the dead stare. Relax face completely and stare directly into the eyes of the other. Let them move. And don't look back, but they will.

      I'm not imposing but move with purpose. And I'm not aggressive or passive, just standing there, staring at you. I've walked into larger drunk guys with their chick who initially start to act aggressive but stand down once they meet my eyes. The dead stare says "I don't care."

      --
      BlameBillCosby.com
    5. Re:Tie your shoes by Phreakiture · · Score: 1

      Also, most of the time I wear loafers... then what am I supposed to do?

      Step out of one accidentally on purpose, then backtrack and bend over to pick it up and put it back on your foot.

      --
      www.wavefront-av.com
    6. Re:Tie your shoes by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

      Personally I like to throw myself down to the sidewalk and feign a grand mal seizure, that manages to get their attention usually.

      But seriously, when I'm on the correct side of the walkway, observing proper etiquette and leaving others room, and some rude asshat feels that the rest of the world revolves around him (or her), and decides that I'm moving out of their way because, I dunno, they're a more important human being, we may have an issue, because that kind of rudeness pisses me off. I think the truth is, a fair number of these people are in fact aware of you walking their way, via peripheral vision, but they choose to ignore you, and be a jerk. And now that we see people behaving this way without their phones, I think it reinforces that notion.
      If a person is genuinely unaware and walks into you, they're more likely to apologize sincerely, and I can forgive that (though it's still annoying). It's the asshats that cop an attitude of self-entitlement that really irritate me. That's not how a civilized society should operate.

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
  6. Maybe Not by JimSadler · · Score: 0

    Keep in mind that battery is any unwanted touching and one can get real jail time or even prison time for battery. And if you decide to yank a phone or Ipad off of someone that can be taken as a major theft along with the battery. Of course you have the same privileges in law. If someone bumps into you you actually can cause them to be arrested. It is true that the courts will usually simply give them a fine but missing work for a trial and a pre trial hearing as well as posting bail and having to sign applications stating that you have been arrested for battery or assault are a real chiller and life changer. So instead of using your fists simply use the courts to achieve your means.

    1. Re:Maybe Not by JustNiz · · Score: 3

      seriously if you're trying to get someone arrested/fined/sent to court just because they accidentally bumped into you on the sidewalk, then you have a much bigger issue than they do.

    2. Re:Maybe Not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If somebody bumps into you accidentally on the sidewalk and you take them to court over it, you're a far bigger asshole than they are.

    3. Re:Maybe Not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please help promote etiquette in society by not having any kids.

    4. Re:Maybe Not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hope no one is relying on you for legal advice, because that's civil battery, not criminal.

      Criminal battery require intent (actual or criminal negligence) plus an unlawful application of force plus actual harm or offensive touching being caused.
      If a cop is arresting someone for accidentally bumping into someone, knowing or suspecting that it was an accident, then it is the cop who is committing a crime.

      Yanking the phone off of a person would be robbery, since it involves the unlawful application of force to the person of another with the intent to steal. I

    5. Re:Maybe Not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what a pathetic litigious culture

    6. Re:Maybe Not by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

      ..or being decent parents. My kid is very respectful of others, almost to a fault.

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
  7. Learned to drive where... by niftymitch · · Score: 2

    One very real issue is where someone grew up
    and learned the rules of the road. Phones and distracted
    walking make it all worse.

    There are nations with left hand and right hand auto driving.
    Pedestrian bias is shaped by these early days and parents.

    Many communities now have a large enough community of newcomers
    that these habits collide on the sidewalk. Mericans in Stralia, Brits
    in France, .... India, Japan, Indonesia,,.... all nations now have a large enough
    influx of newcomers that this is important.

    I first encountered this at airports. Then the powered walkways seemed
    to make it go away but.. no it is still there....

    Worse or perhaps more importantly Mericans have highly controlled cross walks
    for K-12 students. Students do not learn to look all ways for traffic. They simply
    step out -- many will wait for a light but many not. No officer blows a whistle and
    hollers get yer butt off the road. No one hollers get a move on you are blocking
    traffic. Entitlement like turtles goes all the way down...

    Universities have always had pedestrian accidents as egg heads oblivious to the world forget that
    they have left the safe roads of the school and stepped into townie roads. This and the
    localized communities of H1B visa holder make this obvious in some parts of the US.
    Other nations have the same problems with clusters of expats.

    --
    Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
    1. Re:Learned to drive where... by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      There are nations with left hand and right hand auto driving.

      Yep we drive on the left in Oz, the first time I went to Europe I wondered why I was having so much trouble walking around the shopping mall.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    2. Re:Learned to drive where... by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Brits in France

      The British have been coming to France since the 1400's... often in great number.

      One very real issue is where someone grew up and learned the rules of the road.

      As someone who's driven on the wrong side of the road in the States :)

      You have to remember you have learned a bias in your own country, I would drift left and needed to correct it a bit when I first started. You kind of have to go back to the techniques you used when you were first learning to drive to keep yourself tracking straight and this is where the quality of your instruction matters. I was able to correct all my bad habits in a number of hours. Car parks confused the hell out of me because there were no lane markings.

      This is how where you learned to drive really comes into it. If you learned to drive in the UK, Germany or the Nordic Nations where getting your license is quite difficult and requires a good amount of quality training then you'll find that they can quickly adapt to drive well on the wrong side of the road. If you're from a nation that hands them out on wheatbix boxes then you're going to have a bad time. The same goes with walking on paths, if you've got a modicum of intelligence, you can notice pasterns and quickly adjust your own behaviour.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    3. Re:Learned to drive where... by cusco · · Score: 1

      I grew up in a tourist town and learned early that more people are killed crossing with the light than are killed jay walking, probably because the jay walker is actually paying attention to traffic rather than just assuming that the signal is correct.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    4. Re:Learned to drive where... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Worse or perhaps more importantly Mericans have highly controlled cross walks
      for K-12 students. Students do not learn to look all ways for traffic. They simply
      step out -- many will wait for a light but many not.

      Absolute bullshit from someone making assumptions about a nation foreign to him. Children are taught at a very early age to always look both ways before crossing a street, because those controlled crosswalks are only right in front of a school.

  8. basket ball pick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When someone is walking on the wrong side of the side walk (the left) and I have to avoid them, I don't , I set my feet come to a complete stop turn my shoulder in and if they make contact - make it painful. I am not moving but taking my space.

    They get hurt, good, if you are offend or find this not proper, thats your right and I don't care what you think.

    1. Re:basket ball pick by mrbester · · Score: 1

      Don't try that on the tube...

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    2. Re:basket ball pick by anonymous_echidna · · Score: 1

      Your comment does not apply universally. In Australia, the left of the sidewalk is the correct side. See niftymitch's remarks in the comment above: you are an arsehole to assume that everyone is as familiar with the local conventions as you are.

      --
      In most times, most places, by most people, liars are considered contemptible. - Ursula Le Guin
    3. Re:basket ball pick by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      I gotta go with, when in Rome do as the Romans do, and the person who doesn't know the local customs should be proactively staying out of the way of the locals passing by them.

      You're a real "piece of work" to be calling somebody names over that one, wow.

  9. Apparently it depends on where you live by msobkow · · Score: 1

    Apparently the issue depends on where you live, because while I used to see such wankers in Regina, Saskatchewan, I've never had the problem in the smaller community of Yorkton. Not only will people both walk through the snowbank on the side of the tromped-down path here, they'll actually say "Hi" to you while you're passing them.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  10. New App! by retech · · Score: 3, Funny

    Time to make an app that warns people when they're about to collide.

    1. Re:New App! by willworkforbeer · · Score: 1

      Mark One EyeBall ?

      --
      Pretending this is my office full of bitter coworkers..
    2. Re:New App! by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      Mark it with what?

    3. Re:New App! by CmdrTamale · · Score: 1

      ISTR there is one, using the forward facing camera.
      --
      The truth is, you never do get old enough to know better -- Joe Martin

    4. Re:New App! by Tom · · Score: 1

      Several prototypes for such an app already exist. Here's one I found fast, there are others, giyf:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  11. Simple solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't move out of the way and watch them drop their expensive toys.

  12. WhatsApp in China? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A minor, but noticeable smell of cultural ignorance here.. I'm pretty sure Chinese users are not concerned with keeping up with WhatsApp while they should be paying attention to the path. They are much more likely to be using Tencent-endorsed super-huge apps like WeChat.

  13. Last week ... by Martin+S. · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Last week when I was driving to work as was approaching a traffic light that turned from red to green as I approached. I noticed a youth crossing the other side, head phones in and face down in his phone, slowed down in anticipation of him walking out in front of me. He did, I braked and blew my horn in warning and stopped and stepped backwards onto the central refuge and launched into a tirade of abuse and offensive gestures. Despite the fact I'd just saved him from serious injury at minimum as a result of his own stupidity.

    You just cannot help some people.

    1. Re:Last week ... by redelm · · Score: 2, Informative

      You might be right or you might be wrong: Most places, traffic entering an intersection on the green must yield to traffic already in the intersection. That would include yielding to a pedestrian who got half-way across unless the crosswalk was clearly two-phases (London), usually with railings.

      Of course smart pedestrians expect aggressive drivers. And smart drivers know better than to blow through fresh greens.

    2. Re:Last week ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is hard to know without knowing what country the GP is from. Being Slashdot, I guess we assume the default is US? In Russia, cars go right away, there is no wait for the pedestrians after their light changes. In Italy... the GP is not from Italy unless they have been neutered, that much is clear.

    3. Re:Last week ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would include yielding to a pedestrian who got half-way across...

      As someone who abhors cyclists and wishes an eternity in the bowels of hell upon all of them...

      This. Too many idiots got their driver's license out of a cracker jack box and don't realize pedestrians and cyclists have every goddamned right to be where they are, and piloting (very badly, I might add) a shitton of metal powered by exploding dinosaurs does not give you right of way.

    4. Re:Last week ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's ok, Darwin will eventually find him

    5. Re:Last week ... by bsolar · · Score: 1

      You are missing the point. This time this pedestrian met a responsible driver who noticed him and anticipated his careless crossing but next time he might meet a distracted or intoxicated or incompetent driver and get hit: then of course the driver would be in the wrong for not "doing his job", but it would be a pretty meager consolation for the pedestrian who would be dead.

    6. Re:Last week ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I am not the gpp you responded to...

      I am a native Californian who was taught both that pedestrians have the right of way in crosswalks and that it would be shameful to walk out into one against the lights, including entering with the flashing don't walk sign that is equivalent to a yellow light for drivers. People who crossed randomly in mid-block would be ticketed for jay-walking if observed by a cop, and found at fault if they were run down by a car. As a bicyclist I was taught that I should ride in the roadway and follow vehicle rules including direction of travel, signaling turns, and observing traffic control signals and right-of-way rules.

      Continuing to live in California now in my forties, I observe so much behavior that is counter to what I was taught and obeyed. I don't know if it is all immigration with newcomers having learned different rules. Or, it might just be a general erosion of a sense of civic responsibility. Or I might just be turning into a cranky old man who complains about kids these days.

      I frequently bicycle to work using a circuitous route that links scenic paths and bike lanes to minimize my time sharing lanes with cars. I have seen more close calls in the past few years than I saw in my entire life before, with cars clearly running red lights, overtaking and swerving across bike lanes with no concern for cyclists occupying the lane, etc. I have also seen so many cyclists and pedestrians doing equivalently careless things like crossing against lights, ignoring direction of travel rules, and mindlessly entering and leaving the roadway without looking.

    7. Re:Last week ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You just cannot help some people."

      I wish I could pee pee in their faces.

    8. Re:Last week ... by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Yeah, here we have both rules, if there was a cop there who cared about giving out tickets, they'd both get tickets, and the driver would be paying more. :)

      Some places the details are hyper-technical, too; if you're required to yield to the person already there, there is no emergency, and there is no cause for the horn. This is true even if he was in violation of the crosswalk rules. And if he was scared back onto the island by the actions, that could actually be "criminal mischief," which often includes any time that you're making noise with the purpose of obstructing traffic. The driver could actually go to jail, except that cops only charge pedestrians with "criminal mischief" so it wouldn't happen. But if you scared them back, it would certainly be a failure to yield.

      Where I am, drivers know to expect assertive pedestrians who take their turn when the light changes.

    9. Re:Last week ... by PPH · · Score: 1

      What you did was your job.

      Right. Part of which was blowing the horn and getting the inattentive pedestrian to shit himself.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    10. Re:Last week ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the flashing don't walk sign that is equivalent to a yellow light for drivers.

      No, it's equivalent to a red light for drivers, the same as the solid don't walk sign. Both mean "do not enter the intersection," unlike a yellow light for drivers which means "the light is about to turn to red."

      It doesn't make sense that pedestrians get two red phases where drivers get a yellow and a red phase, but that's how it is.

    11. Re:Last week ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't drive across a crosswalk when someone is still in it, doesn't matter if it's halfway or all the way on the other side. Automatic ticket if a cop sees you, been there twice.

    12. Re:Last week ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was in the other version of this story: a rainy night, and a young woman talking on her cell phone stepped out as I was crossing the intersection at 50kph, on a light that had just turned green. I swerved when I saw her, but I still clipped her with (only) my mirror. She fell down, and her phone went flying. Thank god she wasn't badly hurt.

      So the cops show up, and luckily there were enough eyewitnesses around to corroborate that she was jaywalking. She was in shock, so the police called in an ambulance. Her boyfriend shows up, yelling and screaming until the bystanders tell him what happened and tell him to calm down. As the officer is taking my statement, he finishes by saying: "Don't worry, she'll be just fine. She's going to the hospital for a checkup. She's gonna be really pissed off though." I asked him why; "because her phone is completely busted, she has to pay $85 for the ambulance ride, and to add insulty to injury, as an officially logged event, we have no choice but to give her a fairly expensive jaywalking ticket. Still, much better than the alternative."

      I agreed with him. (Still cost me $400 to repair the mirror though.)

    13. Re:Last week ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I were half-way into an intersection when the light turned against me, I absolutely would expect to be honked at, right-of-way or no.

    14. Re:Last week ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And not killing someone with your 2 ton piece of metal? Yeah, it is.

    15. Re:Last week ... by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      You've worked yourself into such a tizzy that you're arguing against views that haven't been expressed. Is there a point?

    16. Re:Last week ... by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      Both of you stated opinion with no cite. My guess is that it varies by locale.

    17. Re:Last week ... by dj245 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I am not the gpp you responded to...

      I am a native Californian who was taught both that pedestrians have the right of way in crosswalks and that it would be shameful to walk out into one against the lights, including entering with the flashing don't walk sign that is equivalent to a yellow light for drivers. People who crossed randomly in mid-block would be ticketed for jay-walking if observed by a cop, and found at fault if they were run down by a car. As a bicyclist I was taught that I should ride in the roadway and follow vehicle rules including direction of travel, signaling turns, and observing traffic control signals and right-of-way rules.

      Continuing to live in California now in my forties, I observe so much behavior that is counter to what I was taught and obeyed. I don't know if it is all immigration with newcomers having learned different rules. Or, it might just be a general erosion of a sense of civic responsibility. Or I might just be turning into a cranky old man who complains about kids these days.

      I frequently bicycle to work using a circuitous route that links scenic paths and bike lanes to minimize my time sharing lanes with cars. I have seen more close calls in the past few years than I saw in my entire life before, with cars clearly running red lights, overtaking and swerving across bike lanes with no concern for cyclists occupying the lane, etc. I have also seen so many cyclists and pedestrians doing equivalently careless things like crossing against lights, ignoring direction of travel rules, and mindlessly entering and leaving the roadway without looking.

      Police used to issue tickets for these things. But sitting in a speed trap maximizes more revenue. I have never heard of anyone in my lifetime (30 years) getting a ticket for actual unsafe driving, despite seeing it every day. Everyone I know has gotten a speeding ticket however.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    18. Re:Last week ... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I don't know if it is all immigration with newcomers having learned different rules. Or, it might just be a general erosion of a sense of civic responsibility.

      It's that one. I notice that most of the fatality accidents, especially the ones where a person runs over a whole bunch of people, tend to involve old men or young girls. Whereas most of the ones where everyone in the car dies involve young men. None of these are groups which tend to value others highly. (Hey, let's face it, most of the people really shitting up the planet are old wrinkly white men)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    19. Re:Last week ... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Too many idiots got their driver's license out of a cracker jack box and don't realize pedestrians and cyclists have every goddamned right to be where they are

      Actually, I commonly see both where they explicitly do not have a legal right to be, like cyclists who can't be arsed to ride on the shoulder because it might harm their precious tires. Well, I'm not allowed to pull into the oncoming lane simply because I might damage some rubber. Get the fuck over, you spandex dildo.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    20. Re:Last week ... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Personally, I'd rather be dead than know that I caused the life of someone else to end without cause.

      That is not what this is about. Personally, I'd rather be alive than oblivious while walking in traffic, and dead with the right-of-way. It is very little comfort after death, or in the painful events which will proceed if if you don't watch where you're going like any higher life form.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    21. Re:Last week ... by Trogre · · Score: 1

      I have seen far too much of that sentiment. That someone with right-of-way is entitled to plough through whatever hazards may be present and consequences be damned. I have sat in a car and actually hear the driver, after taking part in a near-miss event at an intersection, say that it's okay because they would win if it ever went to court.

      Little consolation indeed, if you have to go carless for four weeks while it's being panelbeaten back into shape, or six months in hospital.

      If this sort of mentality ever finds you, a good counter-principle is this:
      You never have the right of way until everyone else gives it to you.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    22. Re:Last week ... by GerryGilmore · · Score: 1

      "Personally, I'd rather be dead than know that I caused the life of someone else to end without cause." I call 100% organic, dolphin-free BullShit. Especially when the "cause" is simple narcissitic stupidity and inattentiveness to the most basic awareness for which you are responsible - your survival. I'm sure it feels all superior and noble to say what you did, but you're delusional if you really believe in a Real(TM) situation that you'd give up your life to save an asshole.

    23. Re:Last week ... by Locando · · Score: 1

      Actually, I commonly see both where they explicitly do not have a legal right to be, like cyclists who can't be arsed to ride on the shoulder because it might harm their precious tires.

      Sounds like a straw man to me. Usually the reason to not be all the way over to the right is that there's crap over there that isn't safe to ride over (protecting one's tires is a distant afterthought if it's enough debris to result in loss of control) or, more commonly, to maximize visibility when sharing the road with the self-important sorts of drivers who consider it beneath them to slow down until it's safe to pass. Even where the issue is merely about tire damage, how is using the shoulder reasonable if doing so pops your tires, i.e., makes it so you can't ride?

      Also, I don't know about your jurisdiction, but in many it's perfectly legal in the absence of a bike lane for a rider to take the entire right-hand lane (unlike, of course, the illegality of crossing the double yellow line). Those laws were created in the interest of safety, an objectively more valuable concern than drivers' self-righteousness. If you live in an area with a lot of cyclists, and you're really concerned about making the roads more drivable, why aren't you complaining about a lack of bike paths? Or are you just trolling here?

    24. Re:Last week ... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Also, I don't know about your jurisdiction, but in many it's perfectly legal in the absence of a bike lane for a rider to take the entire right-hand lane (unlike, of course, the illegality of crossing the double yellow line).

      Only as necessary, not on a whim. When there's a bike lane, the cyclist is required to use it. At least, here in California, where we're also now required to give them three feet of space. Not from the side of the road, from wherever they happen to be, whether where they are is legal or not.

      If you live in an area with a lot of cyclists, and you're really concerned about making the roads more drivable, why aren't you complaining about a lack of bike paths?

      In fact, I have repeatedly advocated for the construction of more bike paths (here on slashdot and elsewhere) specifically so that cyclists don't have to share space with motorists, which is a recipe for disaster. If a car were operating in the way most cyclists seem to, it would be recognized as a danger and the driver's behavior would be illegal.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    25. Re:Last week ... by Locando · · Score: 1

      Only as necessary, not on a whim.

      We weren't talking about whims, now, were we?

      When there's a bike lane, the cyclist is required to use it.

      We weren't talking about places with nice, clean, broken glass–free bike lanes, either!

      If a car were operating in the way most cyclists seem to, it would be recognized as a danger and the driver's behavior would be illegal.

      But they're not cars, they're bikes! They're a lot smaller, have no blind spots, and require a lot more effort on the part of the user to kill people with them! Hence the danger is only on the part of drivers who don't have enough control over their vehicle and/or themselves to avoid hitting other road users. I suppose it's inevitable that a number of them will get behind the wheel anyway, but I don't see why we should act as if they aren't the ones that create the danger. If they hit a bike or pedestrian, they're not the ones who will be injured!

    26. Re:Last week ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      CVC 21456(b).
      Flashing or steady "DONT WALK" or "WAIT" or approved "Upraised
      Hand" symbol. No pedestrian shall start to cross the roadway in the
      direction of the signal, but any pedestrian who has partially
      completed crossing shall proceed to a sidewalk or safety zone or
      otherwise leave the roadway while the "WAIT" or "DONT WALK" or
      approved "Upraised Hand" symbol is showing.

    27. Re:Last week ... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      They're a lot smaller, have no blind spots, and require a lot more effort on the part of the user to kill people with them! Hence the danger is only on the part of drivers who don't have enough control over their vehicle and/or themselves to avoid hitting other road users.

      The only bicycle vs. car accident I've ever seen was when a bicyclist was where he shouldn't have been, and tried to turn left into a vehicle which was going straight because he didn't take over the lane. Luckily, everyone was going pretty slowly at the time, and he was not seriously injured. The truth is that no matter how few blind spots bicycles have, bicyclists still veer into the road for no justifiable reason because they have poor control over their vehicle, or because they're dodging a rock. And since they have so much less mass, the obligation to navigate should be theirs. A car simply cannot stop if a bicyclist swerves directly in front of them, it's not an option made available by physics. But a bicyclist can stop and actually take their vehicle completely off of the pavement pretty much anywhere. In spite of this, I've been part of long strings of cars behind bicyclists who refuse to yield the lane to permit passing as they are legally obligated to do — like anyone else using the road in the state of California.

      I am opposed to the attitude that someone who can take action to permit passing should not simply do it.

      If they hit a bike or pedestrian, they're not the ones who will be injured!

      I don't want to hit a bicycle or a pedestrian. Besides the consideration of damage to my vehicle, which I should not have to suffer simply because of lack of consideration on the part of some wild-handed bicyclist or iPod-entranced zombie shuffler, there's also the horror of having the experience. I don't need PTSD any more than dents.

      I have spent considerable time as a pedestrian, since my mother refused to own a car, and a fair amount of time bicycling for similar and other reasons, and I have managed to not get run over by the simple expedient of not walking or bicycling where I don't belong.

      As I said above, I do believe in making bike paths, so that bicyclists have someplace to belong. In fact, I'm of the opinion that bicyclists will do it themselves if they are simply not prevented from doing so by property ownership, local ordinance, et cetera, and that a tiny amount of government support (mostly in the form of gravel, delivered) could make a massive positive difference in quality of life for the citizenry by promoting cycling. Since we can't seem to get our shit together with rail, I'm a pretty big fan of rails-to-trails, too. But I just experience too many overly entitled cyclists who think that because they're saving the planet, they are not only entitled but obligated to be a pain in the asshole for me to believe in the idea that the motorists of the world are causing all the safety issues.

      It may seem callous to be concerned about damaging my vehicle or my psyche if I run over a cyclist with two or more wheels, but that's how it is. I'm not more concerned about it than their life, but I'm not in control of their actions.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    28. Re:Last week ... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      You have no business in traffic on a 125+psi road bike. Normal mountain/city bike tires handle a little glass just fine. With liners, HD tubes and slime I basically ignore crap in the bike lane. Road bike riders make crazy unpredictable swerves to avoid glass nobody but them can see. Too much focus is on avoiding flats, leaving not enough focus for not dying.

      Road bikes belong on dedicated paved trails and tracks. Not city streets, for exactly the reason you use to justify them riding in traffic while ignoring the bike lane (debris).

      There is a reason all the hate is for 'Lycra clad shell heads'; they deserve it. Jackhole posers wearing costumes to go for a ride.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    29. Re:Last week ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tizzy? No.

      The original poster is basically saying, "what an idiot, tightrope walking across the Niagara... I could just lean over here and cut the rope with this knife I have here and there'd be nothing he could do about it!" -- expecting all of us to agree that yes, that guy was an idiot -- when in fact, who cares, you aren't supposed to go around killing people! You don't deserve a round of applause for this!

    30. Re:Last week ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      . None of these are groups which tend to value others highly. (Hey, let's face it, most of the people really shitting up the planet are old wrinkly white men)

      [citation needed]

    31. Re:Last week ... by bsolar · · Score: 1

      You're still missing the point. The amount of sheet metal surrounding you doesn't determine your worth but it surely determines the outcome of a collision with something else, be it your fault or not or even without a fault at all. A pedestrian has to accept reality: if he gets hit by a car he easily risks injury or death, which means that for him being careless when crossing is much more dangerous.

      Common advice for "soft" street users, be it pedestrian, cyclist or motocyclists, is to assume that everyone else is either completely incompetent or actively trying to kill you since in case of accident you dont want to be right but dead, you want to avoid the accident in the first place.

      You cannot force other drivers to always pay attention or always "do their jobs": it would be nice but reality begs to differ. Being defensive is the best survival strategy.

    32. Re:Last week ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'Having right of way means ploughing on regardless' != 'having right of way means its OK to safely point this out when someone ignores it'. Following right-of-way rules makes things safer, especially in the presence of other mistakes. There's nothing wrong with encouraging that with a purely social response to them being broken (nor do those other mistakes go away or stop being important just because they're illegitimate).

    33. Re:Last week ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pedestrians have right of way on crossings. Perhaps you need to take your driving test again?

    34. Re:Last week ... by Martin+Spamer · · Score: 1

      I was acting entirely properly by local traffic regulations in the UK. The fact that I had a green light means the youth was crossing against the red man. The junction on google street view to draw your own conclusions.

      https://www.google.co.uk/maps/...

      The main point of my post is that the youth was oblivious to the danger he placed himself in then when startled out of this reacted with anger not gratefulness. Clearly a very same ignorance and sense of entitlement the original story highlights.

    35. Re:Last week ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think part of it is a loss of a sense of dignity. 'My life sucks at slave wages, but I can make you, who can afford a car, stop for me. That's the only power I have.'

    36. Re:Last week ... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I try to avoid hitting idiots. It's not as good for the gene pool, but it makes me happier.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    37. Re:Last week ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's no legal requirement to cycle on the shoulder. Indeed, it is a bad idea since it's littered. The cyclist is traffic and should use the lane on the left or right as per their country. Of course, there often isn't a shoulder for a cyclist to be on. So there's no 'explicitly do not have a legal right to be' as regards shoulders as a matter of legal fact. It's your attitude that's the problem I think here.

    38. Re:Last week ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Last week when I was driving to work as was approaching a traffic light that turned from red to green as I approached. I noticed a youth crossing the other side, head phones in and face down in his phone, slowed down in anticipation of him walking out in front of me. He did, I braked and blew my horn in warning and stopped and stepped backwards onto the central refuge and launched into a tirade of abuse and offensive gestures. Despite the fact I'd just saved him from serious injury at minimum as a result of his own stupidity.

      You just cannot help some people.

      Just another fine example of smartphones turning people dumb.

  14. we should probably execute everyone in the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    who walks on the left side of the sidewalk and doesn't get out of the way when someone on the correct side is on a collision course with them.

  15. I have a better idea by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    Put smart phone users lanes out in the street in traffic. They'll start being more respectful then.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  16. Gestural language of public places by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    She hung up before he could say goodbye. Stood there with her arm cocked, phone at ear-level, suddenly aware of the iconic nature of her unconscious pose. Some very considerable part of the gestural language of public places, that had one belonged to cigarettes, now belonged to phones. Human figures, a block down the street, in postures utterly familiar, were no longer smoking.

    Zero History

  17. Walk into them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I purposefully walk right into people doing that if they are in my path and i would have to move around them to get by. I have no compunction about reminding you that your choices have consequences.

  18. Terribly unscientific by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Author is just inventing theories and sharing anecdotes. No research of any kind has gone into this.

    1. Re:Terribly unscientific by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Author is just inventing theories and sharing anecdotes. No research of any kind has gone into this.

      I'm the author - you're absolutely right. It is entirely anecdotal, an opinion piece based on my experience on London sidewalks in the last 3-4 years. My opinion on the matter isn't presented as anything else, and I am merely suggesting that mobile technology may have changed pedestrian behaviour. Since I'm on the receiving end of this behaviour on a regular basis these days, I decided to put the matter out there with a possible theory. - Martin Anderson

    2. Re:Terribly unscientific by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We don't call them sidewalks in the UK. Try again.

    3. Re:Terribly unscientific by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Author is just inventing theories and sharing anecdotes. No research of any kind has gone into this.

      Thank you.

  19. WTF is up with that web page by Snotnose · · Score: 1

    The top half of it is static info that not only doesn't interest me, it doesn't change nor scroll. The scrollable article is on the bottom half. I assume it was the whole article, I scrolled a bit, saw the top wasn't gonna move, and left.

    1. Re:WTF is up with that web page by GrandCow · · Score: 1

      Did you try moving your mouse down 3 inches? As soon as you're off the collapsible part, it *gasp* collapses back out of the way!

      --
      "Well kids, you tried your best, and you failed. The lesson is, never try." -Homer Simpson
  20. Just read a book syndrome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This has been going on for decades before the introduction of smartphones. The worse offenders were college campuses where the newly minted generation could not grasp that having a legal right of way is significantly different than the physical reality of stopping several tons of steel on a dime when they decide to step out into traffic. A complete obliviousness to surroundings. I had relayed it to their young minds being so engrossed, they forgot the simple lesson of stop, look, listen.

    So special crosswalks were put up, with flashing lights warning drivers of the herd stupidity approaching, little different than deer crossing the highway, down to the same blank stares. And still, people were being run over. Even traveling at 20MPH, you can't stop in time for someone who steps out from behind a truck parked on the side of the road.

    So then a crosswalk was built over the road, but that only works if people actually use them, and navigating two flights of stairs is much, much too burdensome.

    You can't legislate away stupidity. I figure between distracted drivers and distracted pedestrians, we'll have an exercise in Darwinism, and a new colloquialism for road kill.

    Or we'll have the masses on bumper-car electric scooters, and the city centers will turn into giant pachinko machines.

    For a generation that is supposed the most educated and the most intelligent, you wouldn't guess it by observing their behavior.

  21. heh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just move half way. Then anyone bumping into me better hope they have enough momentum to move my ass on impact. Male or female.

  22. ...whereas cities such as Utah... by nichogenius · · Score: 1

    Just thought it was funny how the author of the article thinks Utah is a city... not particularly relevant, but funny all the same.

  23. Opps, sorry about that shoulder check by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I didn't notice you. I regularly have small collisions, I'll make a little effort to avoid others, enough so that if they make a little effort there will be no contact.

  24. Let 3 by, then forget it. by thedarb · · Score: 0

    After I've had to move for 3 people, I'm done. I am not their doormat. After letting the third person by in a walk, I switch to 'you will respect me' mode, and I will mow you down. Nope, I'm not 6' +. Just 5' 10". But I feel like a wall. And yes, I am READY to punch your lights out if you try to go violent on me. The worst ones are the ones who look right at you and still just move as a wall of 4 or 5 people. Fine, elbows out, fists ready, and I'm busting through.

    I give 3, then I demand the same in return.

    --
    This sig intentionally left blank.
  25. global issue? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wasn't aware that people outside of the United States stare at their smartphone while walking down the street or crossing a street. Someone in Washington, D.C. almost ran into me while I was walking to the subway station. I saw him at the last second because he came from behind me. Saw him from the corner of my eye and almost tripped over him.

  26. Re:Take your space, except in Santa Ana by BoRegardless · · Score: 1

    Knock down a homie and you could visit the morgue.

  27. Thin the herd. by mschaffer · · Score: 0

    Run them over.
    Knock them down.
    Thin the herd.

    I have seen videos of phone-toting idiots falling into fountains while looking at their phone. What's next?

  28. So you're saying smartphones are making people... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...act like women?

  29. Bourgeois smartphone users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The common people have started to walk and drive in an unapproved, disorderly fashion while operating their bourgeois smartphones. Penalties must be imposed! We must stamp out this behavior now, before it becomes a threat to the social order!

  30. Re:Take your space, except in Santa Ana by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know down homies all the time. Most are scared little girls that have big mouths.
    Plus they cant shoot shit with their low IQ's holding ther pistol sideways over their heads. Homies are stupid.

  31. Whatever, I'm gonna smash them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I walk in a very clear line but I give way as appropriate. However, if some distracted dumbass walks in to me, I'm going to knock them on the ground. I'm a fairly large individual and can generally deflect the "normal" (ie. moron) petite skinny-jeans-wearing pedestrian. Too bad for you, jackass

  32. The obvious solution: STOP by n3r0.m4dski11z · · Score: 2

    All these replies, and not one person has said that they would stop.

    I always stop if someones coming at me with a phone. 9 times out of 10, for whatever reason, they process a static object in-front of them differently and look up before collision. Most likely also apologizing to me at the same time.

    If 2 walkers collide, it could be said that they were both negligent. If someone walks into you though, they look like a complete dumbass and cannot possibly blame you (after all you are simply standing there, already staring at them angrily)

    --
    -
  33. NYC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I lived in New York City briefly a few years back. One of the fun things I would do was if someone was on his or her cellphone on the wrong side of the sidewalk, I would just ram into him or her. Also, I learned to square up my shoulders before we collided so as to come out better off. I did say "excuse me" to give the appearance of the collisions being unintentional. Someone who is not paying attention should be rammed into. That is being assertive.

  34. Coward Anonymous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sadly distracted people are not always on cell phones, some times they are talking among themselves and do dumb things. I was waiting to cross an intersection going west but I'm pointing north to keep the sun out of my daughter's eyes. Three people are waiting to cross with me and they are talking to each other within their group. The light goes green for me and I start to cross west and they start to cross north against the red, I call them college educated. :)

  35. The old mustang by onkelonkel · · Score: 1

    Used to drive an old 67 Mustang. Pretty car but a piece of early 60s crap mechanically. The rear drum brakes had grooves worn in the backing plates over the years such that a sudden sharp application of the brakes would cause them to lock up hard.
     
      It was very useful for distracted pedestrians; you would slow down gradually, and if they still didn't notice hey were wandering out in front of a car, I would twitch the steering wheel left, whap the brake pedal hard, the back wheels would lock up, and the car would do a screeching starsky and hutch fishtail stop. Nothing scares the crap out of a pedestrian like a car skidding sideways to a stop 3 feet from them. (Before anyone freaks out, I could do this at about 10 mph, so mr. pedestrian was never in any danger).

    --
    None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
  36. Sometimes they just need a little nudge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mostly teenagers that think they can force others to move by pretending they do not see us.
    They start paying attention once their 500Euro turd hits the ground ;)

  37. Sadly.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sadly most people dont even need a phone to do that, as they are all dicks anyway.

  38. Anecdotes from Germany ... by Qbertino · · Score: 2

    Germans are sort of polite, but they have some anoyingly stupid habits that I've only seen here:

    1.) When a train stops, those wanting to get on will group around the doors and give those wanting to get of a hard time in doing so. It's a site like from a Monty Python sketch. Like sheep you often have to shove them aside. I've resolved to boldly stepping straight out and onto the feet of anybody standing smack in the middle of the way and making loud suggestions on how to organise things so the people getting off can do so quickly for the benefit of all.

    2.) Blocking the left side of escalators. Really annoying! I recently was to belgium and was astonished how orderly people standing on an escalator would move to the right side, so that people could walk on the left side. I was so astonished I pulled out my camera and took a series of pictures of this "phenomenon". ... Not so in Germany. Regularly people will stop and stand wherever they like to, no matter if they're blocking the way or not. I've resolved to the habit of just about stepping on peoples heels and breathing into their ear if they're unneccessarily blocking the way. Stupid remarks are riposted with witty "... or you could just stand on the right side just like everybody else in every other country on the planet." ... Usually shuts them up. I've actually seen people embarassed because of this. Good.

    3.) As for people mindlessly tumbling about with their smartphones and earplugs: That annoys me greatly, especially in public spaces that are crowded and where you have to expect frequent social interaction, like on a crowded trainstation during rush-hour. ... Take out your f*cking earplugs and put them in when you've found your place on the train, for goodness sake! Nowadays, whenever I try to address someone and he doesn't listen because of earplugs and/or audio cranked up to max, I usually just push or pull them aside gently. Some are so zoned out they're actually OK with that. ... Guess electronic escapisim is shaping our social interaction in that way too.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
    1. Re:Anecdotes from Germany ... by FreedomFirstThenPeac · · Score: 1

      A friend told me that in China the elevator door etiquette was for in-bounds to stand in the door and, similar to the German train behavior, block the door. He is big, and would stand in the elevator with his nose almost touching the door waiting for it to open. Startled a few people, for cure. Social interaction rules are learned behavior, and we are all both teacher and student, if it is done right. Unfortunately, as a child of the 60's, I know that many of my peers refused to be bound by cultural customs, leading to a ruder world, IMNSHO.

      --
      "There is no god but allah" - well, they got it half right.
    2. Re:Anecdotes from Germany ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Germans are sort of polite, but they have some anoyingly stupid habits that I've only seen here:

      1.) When a train stops, those wanting to get on will group around the doors and give those wanting to get of a hard time in doing so. It's a site like from a Monty Python sketch. Like sheep you often have to shove them aside. I've resolved to boldly stepping straight out and onto the feet of anybody standing smack in the middle of the way and making loud suggestions on how to organise things so the people getting off can do so quickly for the benefit of all.

      2.) Blocking the left side of escalators. Really annoying! I recently was to belgium and was astonished how orderly people standing on an escalator would move to the right side, so that people could walk on the left side. I was so astonished I pulled out my camera and took a series of pictures of this "phenomenon". ... Not so in Germany. Regularly people will stop and stand wherever they like to, no matter if they're blocking the way or not. I've resolved to the habit of just about stepping on peoples heels and breathing into their ear if they're unneccessarily blocking the way. Stupid remarks are riposted with witty "... or you could just stand on the right side just like everybody else in every other country on the planet." ... Usually shuts them up. I've actually seen people embarassed because of this. Good.

      3.) As for people mindlessly tumbling about with their smartphones and earplugs: That annoys me greatly, especially in public spaces that are crowded and where you have to expect frequent social interaction, like on a crowded trainstation during rush-hour. ... Take out your f*cking earplugs and put them in when you've found your place on the train, for goodness sake! Nowadays, whenever I try to address someone and he doesn't listen because of earplugs and/or audio cranked up to max, I usually just push or pull them aside gently. Some are so zoned out they're actually OK with that. ... Guess electronic escapisim is shaping our social interaction in that way too.

      As for train stops, I can tell you the same phenomenon happens in the New York subway, system-wide, despite the incessantly over-polite reminders from the PA system to let people off the cars first. As to why we need to be reminded of so many common sense courtesies like this is another matter entirely...

  39. Rule of the sea by FreedomFirstThenPeac · · Score: 1

    A vessel at anchor always has right of way (though I would not try this with a small boat and a big tanker). So I sometimes stop, take out cell phone and pretend to be answering a call. Since I am stopped, I have the right of way under most social rules of traffic in common spaces.

    --
    "There is no god but allah" - well, they got it half right.
  40. China doesn't use WhatsApp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They all use WeChat or QQ, so the lane is for people who need to keep on WeChat and QQ. Interestingly both WeChat and QQ are made by the same company...

  41. "smartphone etiquette" is a oxymoron by peter303 · · Score: 1

    Lack of considering other people when using phone.

  42. they cross streets already w/o reguards to lights by peter303 · · Score: 1

    I have to assume any pedestrian near the curb anywhere whether stoned or on the phone or whatever is about to cross. An accident is not worth the hassle. The police in our city rarely ticket drivers hitting jaywalkers however.

  43. Walking by danielbenn · · Score: 1

    I (and most other people) treat the sidewalk like a roadway, meaning you always walk on the right side, letting oncoming people walking the opposite way pass on your left. Why some people decide to walk on the left side just to be annoying or right down the middle when there is a ton of other people using that same sidewalk is just plain obnoxious. Not yielding to those type of idiots is the only way to go.

  44. Calaifacation by Zanadou · · Score: 1

    ...and cities in China creating dedicated 'smartphone lanes' for walkers who need to keep up with WeChat on the move.

    I know I'm a little late to this discussion (days later via email subscription), but FTFY.