Slashdot Mirror
How Walking With Smartphones May Have Changed Pedestrian Etiquette
An anonymous reader writes The phenomenon of 'distracted walking' — pedestrians who walk while using smartphones — has raised civic attention in the last few years, with Utah issuing fines and cities in China creating dedicated 'smartphone lanes' for walkers who need to keep up with Whatsapp on the move. This article argues that smartphone users have become so accustomed to other people getting out of their way that they will no longer negotiate for sidewalk space even when not using their phones.
Too many people period are idiots about not negotiating equitable space that I just bowl them down. I'm taller and large bigger than most, so if I think they're being oblivious or careless, down they go! Being a dick about sharing a laneway is a dick move and the only ONLY way to punish it is to not yield.
If you wanted to be an uber dick, you'd pick up their phone and throw it away, but that's too much for me =) Oh, that goes double for movie theatre texters! Die in a pit of hell assholes!
Bye!
5) Farm equipment on the road
6) Profit!
From what I observe, people are increasingly self-absorbed. Phones are certainly part of it, but I'm often surprised when I see a driver behaving like someone on a phone, but when I can see them clearly, they're not on a phone or doing anything else, they're just spaced out / lost in daydreaming.
I love walking in to people like that on purpose and then saying, "Oh... Sorry..." I secretly hope they drop their damn phone!
3. Bicyclists
You haven't ridden a bike since you were 16, have you?
Do you think cyclists feel entitled to their right of way to the point where they are oblivious to oncoming collisions? If that were true, don't you think after, say, six months, there wouldn't be any cyclists left because they had all been run over?
Walking down the street with a screen attached to your face and being oblivious to the world around you is a lot different than riding a bike through a busy intersection and dodging every third car driven by someone with a screen attached to their face.
Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
Pretend to tie your shoes if you feel like being run off the sidewalk is immenint. This is the perfect strategy when people fly in formation taking up the entire sidewalk but refuse to move for people walking the other direction.
Do you think cyclists feel entitled to their right of way to the point where they are oblivious to oncoming collisions?
Yes.
3. Bicyclists
That one goes both ways. I see plenty of entitled cyclists asserting right of way when they don't have it, but I have also seen a number of times where drivers are either oblivious or malicious to bicyclists, nearly running them down. This includes cases where there are bike lanes and the cars feel the need to cross into said lanes for nothing more than getting around another car or running through crosswalks despite the signal and despite having a red.
tl:dr: people are dicks, especially on the road
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
You haven't ridden a bike since you were 16, have you?
Do you think cyclists feel entitled to their right of way to the point where they are oblivious to oncoming collisions? If that were true, don't you think after, say, six months, there wouldn't be any cyclists left because they had all been run over?
You haven't driven a car through a city since you were 16, right?
One very real issue is where someone grew up
and learned the rules of the road. Phones and distracted
walking make it all worse.
There are nations with left hand and right hand auto driving.
Pedestrian bias is shaped by these early days and parents.
Many communities now have a large enough community of newcomers .... India, Japan, Indonesia,,.... all nations now have a large enough
that these habits collide on the sidewalk. Mericans in Stralia, Brits
in France,
influx of newcomers that this is important.
I first encountered this at airports. Then the powered walkways seemed
to make it go away but.. no it is still there....
Worse or perhaps more importantly Mericans have highly controlled cross walks
for K-12 students. Students do not learn to look all ways for traffic. They simply
step out -- many will wait for a light but many not. No officer blows a whistle and
hollers get yer butt off the road. No one hollers get a move on you are blocking
traffic. Entitlement like turtles goes all the way down...
Universities have always had pedestrian accidents as egg heads oblivious to the world forget that
they have left the safe roads of the school and stepped into townie roads. This and the
localized communities of H1B visa holder make this obvious in some parts of the US.
Other nations have the same problems with clusters of expats.
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
Apparently the issue depends on where you live, because while I used to see such wankers in Regina, Saskatchewan, I've never had the problem in the smaller community of Yorkton. Not only will people both walk through the snowbank on the side of the tromped-down path here, they'll actually say "Hi" to you while you're passing them.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Time to make an app that warns people when they're about to collide.
seriously if you're trying to get someone arrested/fined/sent to court just because they accidentally bumped into you on the sidewalk, then you have a much bigger issue than they do.
If somebody bumps into you accidentally on the sidewalk and you take them to court over it, you're a far bigger asshole than they are.
What are you saying? Please elaborate.
Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
Last week when I was driving to work as was approaching a traffic light that turned from red to green as I approached. I noticed a youth crossing the other side, head phones in and face down in his phone, slowed down in anticipation of him walking out in front of me. He did, I braked and blew my horn in warning and stopped and stepped backwards onto the central refuge and launched into a tirade of abuse and offensive gestures. Despite the fact I'd just saved him from serious injury at minimum as a result of his own stupidity.
You just cannot help some people.
Don't try that on the tube...
"Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
Put smart phone users lanes out in the street in traffic. They'll start being more respectful then.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
He's saying the truth. 8-9 / 10 asshats on bikes don't follow the rules of the road that they are legally required to. Just a few things:
1: don't stop for stop signs... many times not even slowing down, then expecting traffic to magically not hit them. I have personally witnessed several tickets being handed out to them since my city is FINALLY starting to crack down on them, they will even do it right in front of a cop....
2: riding on sidewalks instead of using the apparently wasted bike lanes, and hitting people walking ( you know the ones that belong on the sidewalks ). Happens with different asshats several times a month in my city alone, and I doubt it is a fluke since you see all the other asshattery anywhere you go. Hell because of #1 I have been hit by a stupid ass biker in a fucking crosswalk with the light in MY favor.
3: they observe speed limits worse than 4-wheel car drivers. School zone? Still going as fast as possible, on the sidewalk where they don't belong. They should be ticketed just as if a car was speeding ( this does occasionally happen, just needs to more often).
There you go, took mere minutes to come up with just a few things that 80% of the observed bike riders do to make everyone look down on bike riders. Sucks for the last 10-20% that actually are courteous, but then maybe THEY should start bashing heads of the rest if they want their image to look better.
To err is human; effective mayhem requires the root password!
after, say, six months, there wouldn't be any cyclists left because they had all been run over
If only.
She hung up before he could say goodbye. Stood there with her arm cocked, phone at ear-level, suddenly aware of the iconic nature of her unconscious pose. Some very considerable part of the gestural language of public places, that had one belonged to cigarettes, now belonged to phones. Human figures, a block down the street, in postures utterly familiar, were no longer smoking.
Zero History
Your comment does not apply universally. In Australia, the left of the sidewalk is the correct side. See niftymitch's remarks in the comment above: you are an arsehole to assume that everyone is as familiar with the local conventions as you are.
In most times, most places, by most people, liars are considered contemptible. - Ursula Le Guin
Author is just inventing theories and sharing anecdotes. No research of any kind has gone into this.
The top half of it is static info that not only doesn't interest me, it doesn't change nor scroll. The scrollable article is on the bottom half. I assume it was the whole article, I scrolled a bit, saw the top wasn't gonna move, and left.
A few weeks ago I had my dog on a bike harness and we were cycling / galloping down a street in Salt Lake City (about 15 mph). Some guy was yakking on his phone and obliviously started wandering backwards off the curb into an intersection while facing 180 degrees away. I slammed on the brakes (along with someone driving a car) and my dog's leash broke off its safety hitch since he'd made a split second decision to pass the guy on his right side. The dude turned around and said, "what the hell [can't you see I'm on the phone here]?" This was in Salt Lake City; I didn't know he could have been fined $50. Although around here, they ticket cyclists for not having their bikes registered. The rules for driving in Utah are shocking to anyone from out-of-state; they were apparently written for demolition derby. I've seen safer driving in Mad Max movies. You have right of way if you think someone can slam on their brakes and leave streaks in the road without T-boning your ass. (I guess you have to, since you can never see around the guy next to you straddling the crosswalk with his Ford F300.) I'm always seeing drivers holding phones against their heads and gesticulating with their other hand to people who aren't physically present, instead of actually touching the steering wheel. (And I won't say much about the baby strollers around here, except that they're often going side-by-side in formation.)
You either have absurdly low speed limits, a bunch of extreme athletes, or perhaps you've mistaken something motor-assisted for a bicycle.
He did say "in a school zone", which is not uncommon to have a speed limit of 15-20 at the start and end of the school day, when the sidewalks and streets are going to be lousy with buses, cars, and pedestrians.
It depends on the location. In the Pacific Northwest there are clear rules for sharing the road, and if you don't share it with bicyclists you will hit them, because they really do use the space allotted to them. You'll probably lose your license, too, if it was your fault. Vehicle-on-bicycle or -pedestrian is taken seriously. If your phone records show you were distracted, and you kill them, you'll go to prison. Real prison.
As a pedestrian, if it is my turn, I can walk. They *will* yield. I understand, in Boston I'd be dead and even the cops would blame me. But that isn't universal.
In Idaho bicycles can treat stop signs as yield signs. When a bike does a "rolling-stop" through a stop-sign, it is called an "Idaho stop." Many states are legalizing it. It passes most places it is considered. Expect it to be the norm in 20 years. Just like, there was a time where only a few states allowed a right turn at a red light; now it is nearly universal. Because it works. My dad told me a story about driving in the midwest when he was a kid, and they didn't have that rule yet. He made a right turn on red, and had people shouting at him for just brazenly running a light! lol "it just seemed so natural"
In my State bicycles are allowed to use the sidewalks. Also, vechicles with 3-or-less wheels that are hardware limited to 15mph or less are considered bicycles, and can also use the sidewalk. (this was to allow Segways without going into the weeds and endorsing specific wheel configurations) Luckily, pedestrians have the right-of-way and the bicycles are required to always yield.
The speed limit applies to the street, not the sidewalk. They'll beat that ticket. However, many places have a rule that bicycles on the sidewalk have to go walking speed, so there might be a different non-speeding ticket they can get. Most cyclists don't actually go over the 20MPH of a school zone, certainly not over 25 which is the normal real speed. (limit+5 is standard for cars, except in places where it is limit+8)
There are real problems with cyclists that ride poorly and don't follow the rules, but I'm not convinced you know the rules well enough that you're driving according to them. ;)
All but 1 of those things are the correct, legal way to ride in most places.
I gotta go with, when in Rome do as the Romans do, and the person who doesn't know the local customs should be proactively staying out of the way of the locals passing by them.
You're a real "piece of work" to be calling somebody names over that one, wow.
Just thought it was funny how the author of the article thinks Utah is a city... not particularly relevant, but funny all the same.
There would be a lot fewer cyclists if automobile drivers were as big a dicks as cyclists are.
Expect it to be the norm in 20 years.
That's OK. Quite a few aftermarket suppliers are doing a brisk business selling 'Idaho Stop' bars for trucks and SUVs. These used to be called 'bull bars', used to protect the trucks grill and radiator from damage from wandering livestock. They work for bicycles just as well.
But seriously; cyclists already blow through stop signs without looking. And that's fine if you know what you are doing. But some kid is going to see a skilled adult doing this and follow the example without the experience. Result: squashed kid.
Have gnu, will travel.
Knock down a homie and you could visit the morgue.
a traffic maneuver that increases safety for the vast majority of users
[citation needed]
Have gnu, will travel.
Yep, cyclists aren't passive. They will scream abuse as pedestrians who dare use the hiking trail in front of them, and bang on the side of my car to make sure I don't turn suddenly.
Riding a bicycle while making an honest attempt to follow the rules of the road is by far one of the most frightening experiences, period.
Car drivers will often merge into the bicycle lane to make a right turn. Some of the bicycle lines are dashed to show that this is acceptable, because it's technically the legal way things are supposed to be done. For the bicyclist however, this means that you're constantly at risk of being slammed into by car drivers who are doing what they're supposed to do and the only thing you can do about it is refuse to follow the rules. You don't always hear the car coming up behind you, especially if the streets are busy and traffic is getting hectic.
I've found that the safest way to ride is almost always by doing the OPPOSITE of what you're legally obligated to do. Ride against traffic in the bike lane, making it so you are face to face with the people who are most at risk of hitting you. Make eye contact with drivers as you approach. This also helps with people who are parked and opening their doors. People are more likely to recognize you are there because they have a face coming at them, which the human brain is very adept at spotting. I hang back at intersections and wait until it's actually safe to proceed because I can't trust drivers to accept that a bicyclist has any right-of-way. Too many near misses when doing things the "right" way. The rate of close calls that I've experienced has been drastically reduced since I stopped trying to "share the road".
As a pedestrian, if it is my turn, I can walk. They *will* yield.
In Seattle, especially in the downtown/Belltown area in my experience, this is becoming less of a safe assumption. When I worked in Belltown, it was a rare day that I wasn't nearly hit by an impatient driver; now, working closer into the downtown core, the near-collisions are somewhat less but still far too frequent for comfort.
I do tend to assert my right of way where the vehicle's speed is not likely to do serious harm, because I'm not ready to give up safe pedestrian right of way that I've become accustomed to. But there are also times I have to actively dodge an oncoming vehicle to ensure my safety.
What are you saying? Please elaborate.
Some bicyclists are good, have proper lane discipline, signal, obay lights / signs, others don't. Some of the worst cyclists I have ever seen:
-At a signalized crosswalk on a 6 lane road. All four lanes came to a stop for the pedestrian who had activated the overhead flashing lights (eg: it was obvious all traffic had stopped for a pedestrian). I was in the curb lane on the ped's destination side of the road. She was in front of my car and I happened to notice in my right mirror Lance Armstrong coming up the gutter at full speed, oblivious to the overhead flashing lights, and lineup of stopped cars. I sounded the horn, which startled the pedestrian, but cause her to stop and not step in front of the bike. I should have had the passenger deploy their door.
-One 3 way stop I used to go through a lot. Curb lane was RIGHT TURN ONLY, inside lane was straight lane. Bicycles would continuously run the stop sign going straight in the gutter of the curb lane. WTF? How can bicycles complain about being hooked if they pass turning traffic in a turn only lane that all have their signals on? The vehicles don't expect someone to be passing illegally like this. If they want to pass going straight, they should split the lanes. Bikes talk about "taking the lane". I started "taking the gutter" at this and other intersections. Driving as close to the curb as possible to prevent bikes from trying to pass when I'm trying to turn right.
-Amsterdam, land of the bicycle, at a major intersection pedestrians had a green light. A big sea of pedestrians were crossing the road, when suddenly perpendicular to the pedestrians a bike was going against the signal, ringing his bell "DING DING DING DING" plowing through pedestrians that had the right of way.
To me, carefully crossing against a signal (slow, look, proceed), and driving on the sidewalk aren't as bad as this. Unfortunately there's a lot of bad apples that give the few good bicyclists a bad name. I will respect bicyclists if they respect other people.
All these replies, and not one person has said that they would stop.
I always stop if someones coming at me with a phone. 9 times out of 10, for whatever reason, they process a static object in-front of them differently and look up before collision. Most likely also apologizing to me at the same time.
If 2 walkers collide, it could be said that they were both negligent. If someone walks into you though, they look like a complete dumbass and cannot possibly blame you (after all you are simply standing there, already staring at them angrily)
-
Used to drive an old 67 Mustang. Pretty car but a piece of early 60s crap mechanically. The rear drum brakes had grooves worn in the backing plates over the years such that a sudden sharp application of the brakes would cause them to lock up hard.
It was very useful for distracted pedestrians; you would slow down gradually, and if they still didn't notice hey were wandering out in front of a car, I would twitch the steering wheel left, whap the brake pedal hard, the back wheels would lock up, and the car would do a screeching starsky and hutch fishtail stop. Nothing scares the crap out of a pedestrian like a car skidding sideways to a stop 3 feet from them. (Before anyone freaks out, I could do this at about 10 mph, so mr. pedestrian was never in any danger).
None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
8-9 / 10 asshats on bikes don't follow the rules of the road that they are legally required to.
You realize that laws are made by humans, and in many cases they are created for the benefit of only certain groups, independent of what is just or most practical, right? It's the same as with pirating music, smoking weed, or speeding on the freeway. If all you have to go on is "but it's the LAW!" then you don't have much of an argument, never mind an excuse to be as pissed off as you are. In other words, if you think there is some decent, equitable reason why bikes should be required to stop at stop signs, go on, explain it.
Sucks for the last 10-20% that actually are courteous, but then maybe THEY should start bashing heads of the rest if they want their image to look better.
There are more bad drivers, so can you start bashing their heads first? Oh wait, that's impractical, isn't it. Back to what you said: Since when did I become responsible for the actions of people I've never met simply because they use the same mode of transport as I do? Asshole bikers piss me off probably more than they piss you off, considering that I have to share bike paths with them. But if we're going to discuss this stuff like reasonable people, rather than screaming and expecting things based on feelings that the world owes us something, there's no place for talking about image. People feel that cyclists are dangerous and feel that SUVs are safe and feel that the economy is improving and feel that Jenny McCarthy can be trusted when she says vaccines might cause autism.
A lot of the best ideas in the world have bad PR. And we as a nation have a huge self-entitlement problem — especially on the part of those whose politics are the most self-proclaimedly selfless, good God — that I doubt is getting any better as the years go by. To assume that it's limited to just people on bikes (or whatever other smallish category you want to come up with) is to scapegoat on the basis of popularity, normality, or some other attribute of convenience.
You're assuming they're on the roads, where the cars and vans and buses and trucks are. Round here the precious snowflakes are mostly on the pavement(UK)/sidewalk(US), so sadly the person who tends to get run over isn't them but elderly and infirm people or small children.
By the way, I used to ride a bike before it was fashionable - heck, it was practically illegal. But I used to obey the highway code.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
3. Bicyclists
You haven't ridden a bike since you were 16, have you?
Do you think cyclists feel entitled to their right of way to the point where they are oblivious to oncoming collisions?
You haven't ridden a bike since you were 16 have you.
Cyclists will happily turn into traffic without as second thought and expect everyone else to get out their way. I've got a nice highlight reel from my dashcam of cyclists behaving badly. Some of my favourites are people riding right at me the wrong way down the road... and they're all on the road because they hate slower pedestrians getting in their way the same way cyclists get in the way of motorists (oh the irony).
People walking with their heads buried in their phones are extremely rude, but the Lycra warriors on their bikes are the gods that the rude and inconsiderate pray to. They have no consideration for other road users and are so arrogant that they never believe anything they do can be wrong.
If that were true, don't you think after, say, six months, there wouldn't be any cyclists left because they had all been run over?
No, the cyclists are trying to get laws changed in every western country to make the driver automatically responsible for any accident with a cyclist regardless of what actually happened. One of the big reasons I have a dash cam is because cyclists are so reckless. This has only been reinforced by new research in my city (Perth, Western Australia) that cyclists are at fault the majority of the time (along the lines of 60% of collisions).
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Germans are sort of polite, but they have some anoyingly stupid habits that I've only seen here:
1.) When a train stops, those wanting to get on will group around the doors and give those wanting to get of a hard time in doing so. It's a site like from a Monty Python sketch. Like sheep you often have to shove them aside. I've resolved to boldly stepping straight out and onto the feet of anybody standing smack in the middle of the way and making loud suggestions on how to organise things so the people getting off can do so quickly for the benefit of all.
2.) Blocking the left side of escalators. Really annoying! I recently was to belgium and was astonished how orderly people standing on an escalator would move to the right side, so that people could walk on the left side. I was so astonished I pulled out my camera and took a series of pictures of this "phenomenon". ... Not so in Germany. Regularly people will stop and stand wherever they like to, no matter if they're blocking the way or not. I've resolved to the habit of just about stepping on peoples heels and breathing into their ear if they're unneccessarily blocking the way. Stupid remarks are riposted with witty "... or you could just stand on the right side just like everybody else in every other country on the planet." ... Usually shuts them up. I've actually seen people embarassed because of this. Good.
3.) As for people mindlessly tumbling about with their smartphones and earplugs: That annoys me greatly, especially in public spaces that are crowded and where you have to expect frequent social interaction, like on a crowded trainstation during rush-hour. ... Take out your f*cking earplugs and put them in when you've found your place on the train, for goodness sake! Nowadays, whenever I try to address someone and he doesn't listen because of earplugs and/or audio cranked up to max, I usually just push or pull them aside gently. Some are so zoned out they're actually OK with that. ... Guess electronic escapisim is shaping our social interaction in that way too.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
... and then using cars, causing even more traffic for you to deal with.
some asshole biker ran a red light and almost pegged my gf the other night. motherfucker was lucky, i engage in disproportionate retribution. fucking beardy would have been eating his bike.
fuck that. ban that, dont legalize.
..or being decent parents. My kid is very respectful of others, almost to a fault.
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
A vessel at anchor always has right of way (though I would not try this with a small boat and a big tanker). So I sometimes stop, take out cell phone and pretend to be answering a call. Since I am stopped, I have the right of way under most social rules of traffic in common spaces.
"There is no god but allah" - well, they got it half right.
I generally wear boots, and will give them a good kick in the quarter panel if they've cut me off. Scares the crap out of them, they think they've hit someone and their insurance will go up.
The issue I run into more often in Bellevue is people coming out of a parking lot driveway waiting for traffic to clear and only looking one direction to see if cars are coming, oblivious to the fact that pedestrians even exist. (The T-Mobile headquarters is especially bad for this.) If I'm in front of them and they start to move I'll slap my hand down hard on their hood to let them know I'm there. The better ones are appalled that they almost ran someone down, the executive-looking BMW types are just annoyed that I've touched their precious baby.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
Lack of considering other people when using phone.
I have to assume any pedestrian near the curb anywhere whether stoned or on the phone or whatever is about to cross. An accident is not worth the hassle. The police in our city rarely ticket drivers hitting jaywalkers however.
They won't be using cars if they get run over properly.
Riding toward them gives me the only chance I have to avoid that swerve. Thanks for suggesting I should get fucked without seeing It coming!
Which is why I hang back and pay attention at intersections. On the 'correct' side of the road, the guy would merge into me in the situation You describe. I am saving my life.
I (and most other people) treat the sidewalk like a roadway, meaning you always walk on the right side, letting oncoming people walking the opposite way pass on your left. Why some people decide to walk on the left side just to be annoying or right down the middle when there is a ton of other people using that same sidewalk is just plain obnoxious. Not yielding to those type of idiots is the only way to go.
I know I'm a little late to this discussion (days later via email subscription), but FTFY.
He doesn't need a citation to mention something easily searchable. Stop being a baby. I know you're new here, but you're not that green. Surely you're capable of doing a basic search on the context: "Idaho stop traffic safety." According to wikipedia there was 1 study and it showed a slight increase in safety.
The reason for "citation needed" when not actually posting to wikipedia is to challenge the accuracy of something asserted, where you believe the actual citation would disprove the claim, or prove biased sources.
In this case, you're requesting a citation, where you could have easily checked and found out that the only source agrees with the claim. People who actually care to read the study would have searched for it right away, and wouldn't have relied on a link anyways. They'd have to do a search even with the link, to find out if it was to the most relevant study.
Also, the maneuver in question increases bicycle rule compliance in general, it doesn't decrease it. The grandparent's logic for it being dangerous to children is absurd; children need to be supervised, and "what would children do if they don't learn anything and just try to mimic adult behavior" is not a valid basis for writing law. If a person bought into that, they'd have to agree to ban anything for adults that is not also suitable for children. It goes way beyond "think of the children" and is somehow even stupider.