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Former MLB Pitcher Doxes Internet Trolls, Delivers Real-World Consequences
An anonymous reader writes: When Twitter trolls began posting obscene, sexually explicit comments about his teenage daughter, former MLB pitcher Curt Schilling responded by recording their comments and gathering personal information readily available to the public. He then doxxed two of them on his blog, resulting in one being suspended from his community college and the other being fired from his part-time job as a ticket seller for the New York Yankees. There were seven others in Curt's crosshairs, all college athletes, but although he hasn't publicly doxxed those individuals, he hints, "I found it rather funny at how quickly tone changed when I heard via email from a few athletes who'd been suspended by their coaches. Gone was the tough guy tweeter, replaced by the 'I'm so sorry' apology used by those only sorry because they got caught."
There are far too many sociopaths in the world, and the Internet seems to be a perfect playground for their misanthropy.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Doxing isn't using public information. It's using private information. Otherwise a phone book would be doxing, so would house addresses.
Om, nomnomnom...
We should hire Curt to rid Slashdot of the GNAA, MyCleanPC, etc trolls.
Curt "Haha RI Taxpayers" Schilling
Have Dox, Will Travel
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
At least that would be something useful to do with taxpayer money
You'll love it here when the trolls are gone. It'll be just like Zuckerbook, only with fewer girls.
He didn't. Summary is sentationalistic.
away
The guys who were just messing around with stuff like "Can't wait to date her!" he responded in kind, and the people who were total shits he took the gloves off with.
Except most of them don't end up being more careful, and those that would be careful could already have done so. It is the same when dealing with spammers, forum trolls, and script kiddies. The majority of them are not that careful, and this hasn't changed in the last decade. I still see hacking and troll spamming (as in spamming stupid crap, not for selling stuff) come from a dorm room ip addresses all the time. They know proxies exist, and if you block their first ip, they will start using proxies all over the world. But many of them are stupid enough to try such stuff from a computer on a university or employer's campus, and the IT departments of both kinds of places don't take it lightly (as opposed to crap on some generic ISP when someone does it from their parent's basement).
Sure, most people will just meekly apologize when they are doxed. But not all people will react this way. Schilling took very real
risks playing the passive-aggressive doxing game. Why ? Because fucking with people you don't really know is a bad idea. Actually,
fucking with people you do know is a bad idea too, because any human being can snap if certain stressors are introduced. If you don't
believe this is true, do a Google search on "workplace shooting".
A truly intelligent person ignores the taunts of idiots on the internet, rather than taking the bait. If that's not sufficient, the next intelligent step
is to hire a firm which will "erase" all public record of the ugly posts ( the firms which offer to "fix reputations" for money are an example of
this, and I have no affiliation with any of them ). Doxing someone is _never_ the wise answer.
There are far too many trolls who ill deserve the title. If you can be doxxed you're doing it very wrong. You have to create a whole new identity, use proxies located in non-friendly nations or TOR and never ever let your two identities share a single solitary detail.
If you want to troll with the big boys you become somebody entirely new, someone completely unconnected to the real you.
So shitposters are allowed to be as vile as is possible to be, and nobody is allowed to do anything to fight back or we're "stooping to their level."
How very convenient... for the shitposters.
Let me guess, you still believe the "don't feed the trolls" line? And I guess you also fell for "if you ignore them they'll stop teasing you" too? Most kids eventually discover that the only way to actually make that stop is to, completely out of the blue and unexpectedly, knock the teaser's front teeth out... and that's basically what Schilling did.
All too often we assume that dealing with trolls is like pissing in the wind but a few crushing responses now and then (being made "famous" and getting fired) is a start. The idiocy of these guys writing stuff like that to a dude who has a wide audience is nothing short of astounding. It's akin to threatening Obama and then being surprised when the Secret Service shows up.
At any rate, screw the scumbags, they deserve their comeuppance.
Yeah, 'cause it's so much better to let the trolls troll.
"The wiser head gives in" only means that the assholes get their way. Nothing else.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Knocking their teeth out only works if you aren't outnumbered. Better take a gun to school...
This guy just made himself the target of trolls everywhere. Boasting about this will prove to have been a very poor choice.
is that sooner or later we're all witches.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
Although not technically Doxxing, I have no problem with someone being publicly shamed for their stupidity.
The irresponsibility with which the modern media operates astounds me. The cheerleading tone of this article is unmissable. We are supposed to rise from our seats and applaud this sportsmensch who hunted down the skeeves speaking ill of his daughter. And hey, on one level, I do.
But here's a little perspective that NJ.com apparently can't be counted on to supply. Just because this case is pretty black and white doesn't mean they all will be. The next time, some jackass will create social networking profiles with breadcrumbs leading back to their real target, and with minimal effort will get a Curt Schilling to do the dirty work, and bear the legal liability, for them.
This is why we have police departments. I fully recognize that they've deteriorated in capability and trustworthiness, losing their role as guardians of the real public interest to politics and less esoteric concerns like meeting budgets and justifying headcounts, but that's a reason to fix what's broken about our system, not replace it with every-man-for-himself vigilantism.
The comments were horrific. Directed at her, because she was his daughter. Her only "crime" was being the daughter of a sports star. She had done nothing, but comments ranged from raping her, to penetrating her with a baseball bat.
I hope every one of these sick little fuckers loses their job, gets kicked out of school *and* has their name attached to the story. I want somebody to find these comments *every* time that one of these guys is googled, forever.
This shit won't stop until there are actual consequences. It won't ever stop completely, but it could certainly help.
Look in the mirror lately?
Slashdot's very own Jim Lahey, everyone!!
Funny how the person who recommends violent responses to trouble hides their identity to prevent anyone from responding in kind to them.
Supporter of the +1 Over Dramatic mod option. In memory of apk.
On Slashdot, maybe 'former MLB pitcher' is less noteworthy than 'creator of Kingdoms of Amalur'.
... also, I can kill you with my brain.
This is why we have police departments.
Come on, you realistically expect the police to handle every case like this?
This is no different from having a reasonable right to self defense to protect your life. If you are being harassed online you should be able to do something about it, because chances are the police will not are at least not nearly as expediently as you can. The earlier you take action, the more you cut off the really bad stuff.
that's a reason to fix what's broken about our system
What if what is broken is having inherent trust in the system to do everything for you?
Sounds like it is being fixed.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The next generation of "trolls" will only be more careful. Hope he feels proud of himself for stooping to their level.
Unfortunately (for the Internet trolls) being "more careful" isn't necessarily an option. What Curt Schilling actually demonstrated is that it's trivially easy to "out" or "dox" most people due to their blindly spewing every last bit of personal information about themselves all over the Internet.
The Salem Witch Trials were good thing. After all, there might have been some real witches there.
In this case you have people literally flying around on metaphorical brooms on Twitter.
If there had been actual witches eating children, are you saying they should have done nothing? Because that's what you are saying should be done in the case of people talking on Twitter about how they want to rape his daughter.
We aren't talking about witch-hunts here against people who have done nothing. We are talking about bringing consequences to people who in fact HAVE done something and expect nothing to happen as a result.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Either the chief apologist for the local constabulary should
Guess what? Harassment is anti-social behaviour which should be criminal. (Pressurising a politician is different.)
Interesting he didn't dox other athletes.
You should probably contemplate the meaning of "live by the sword, die by the sword", particularly as it pertains to the reasons for strict legal limits on violence.
I'm not saying it is. It's just ironic that the man with confrontational words chooses the most evasive identity.
Supporter of the +1 Over Dramatic mod option. In memory of apk.
The Salem witch trial methods would still have killed many innocents even if witches did exist
But all that we are seeing in THIS case is someone pointing out what people are saying to others. So the harm done is directly proportional ONLY to the persons own actions.
Someone moderately clever will post horrifically offensive content under someone else's name, then "catch" the designated offender and post their info and purported crimes to social media.
So since that might happen one in 500 million times of ACTUAL trolling - so we should do nothing at all about real trolls that we can actually combat. Even though it can be disproved...
The good of the many and all that. We should not back down from preventing common crime because of a hypothetical.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
and the screwing over of the Rhode Island taxpayers to the tune of ~115 MILLION forever puts him on the scumbag list (especially given his hardcore right wing rants about welfare, etc when he's happy to take corporate welfare)
HOWEVER, his daughter has nothing to do with him being a raging a-hole complete douchebag and anti-science nut.
'The unexamined life is not worth living' - Socrates
Most kids eventually discover that the only way to actually make that stop is to, completely out of the blue and unexpectedly, knock the teaser's front teeth out... and that's basically what Schilling did.
To be fair, it really depends on the specific teaser and their motivations. The ones who do a half-assed job of it and are easily bored will usually move on if you ignore them. The ones who are more tenacious probably do need a kick in the teeth to get the message. Then there are the ones who are both tenacious and actively malicious, those are the ones that it's not a good idea to escalate with unless you're really prepared to follow through as far as it takes.
The police only investigate serious crimes or imminent threats where either a lot of money or someone's life is on the line, and even then, they aren't fast, accurate, or trustworthy. The legal system does not have the time or the motivation or the resources to deal with what is the online equivalent of schoolyard antics.
That is not to say what these idiots were doing was trivial or harmless. But let's put it this way: suppose every time you had someone come up to you and say something completely disgusting and violent to your face, that your response was to do absolutely NOTHING except file a police report, do you really think that would stop such behavior? If someone punched you, are you just going to stand there and not defend yourself, instead electing to wait until you can go to the nearest station and file a report?
The bottom line is that you cannot reasonably expect to have a free internet while at the same time tell the government or law enforcement that users must be held accountable for their online actions. People suggesting that victims simply shrug off such behavior are either themselves psychopaths or have never themselves been the target of such abuse. And to then call out the victim for vigilantism is the height of delusion. Oh, but what if this opens up a slippery slope of unchecked vigilantism and real-world consequences for people who are the mistaken subject of retaliation?
Um,... I have some news for you: it's already lawless out there. It has always been. You can't simultaneously tell people to shrug off the trolls because "oh well that's the internet for you," yet cry foul when people fight back, saying "but what if innocent people lose their jobs?" That's hypocrisy. People are already suffering real-world consequences of the behaviors of trolls. You are just selectively inured to it because it happens a LOT more often and it's been going on for a lot longer than people successfully fighting back...and when they do fight back, it goes viral and makes the news because so many people are so desperate for a solution that it feels good to see the good guy winning for once.
That should tell you how completely nonexistent civility is in the online realm. People SHOULD be accountable for their actions online. But don't fucking tell me that it's the job of the government to do that for me, because we all know how PERFECTLY that works. What a joke. Accountability is not actually kicking someone in the balls for being a jackass. It's being able to carry out the promise of that consequence.
This is really bad stuff. It should not happen. I'm glad at least some of the creeps who wrote that stuff got doxxed and fired.
It's sad, but maybe Mr. Schilling could have shared his joy at his daughter going to college only with family and friends. That way he would not get the extremely harassing comments in response.
A couple of unrelated issues: why does Mr. Schilling pretend on his blog like because he is a Republican that all Democrats are vile? I have seen sooooo many disgusting attacks made by self-described "family values" Republicans against anyone they don't like or don't agree with. Just watch Fox News for five seconds to see examples of this. Not all Republicans are vile. But several prominent ones are. Second, anyone remember that Curt Schilling started a gaming company and got a $75 million loan from the state of Rhode Island? Rhode Island eventually sued Curt Schilling in 2012 after his company went bust.
I wouldn't advocate violence as a first option. First, tell people in charge or people who can support you (friends, family, teachers, etc). Most times, this can help you deal with the bullies/trolls without resorting to violence. However, if those people who should be there to help you don't/won't, then violence can be considered. Even then, though, you can find yourself overpowered and/or outnumbered in which case you'll be beaten up AND bullied.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
thanks for your thoughts, hero
This guy is the best dad this girl could have right now.
Sure he is.
Until someone sues them.
Or pulls the same thing on them on account of him painting that huge target on their backs.
Except now they can just wave any civil suit away on account of that he was just doing what her dad did.
Or it is simply seen as a Streisand effect taunt to any idiot out there. How many trolls CAN he handle?
And it is always smart to react to verbal insults in a way that will leave someone with a lot of free time on their hands, no prospects for the future AND angry.
But hey... It may be a hassle to remember that now the saying goes "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words may get me fired/expelled." - but it's nice to see sayings change during your lifetime.
It means we are living in interesting times.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
In order to qualify as "doxxing" you must distribute the discovered information. He did not distribute the information. He used it to contact people with authority over the individuals and pass on notice of their behavior. You might call that reporting, tattling, ratting-out or even snitching. But to call it "doxxing" is misleading and gives ethical cover to people who encourage harassment by distributing personally identifiable information.
The trolls threatened to rape his daughter.
He exposed their identity leading them to be kicked off their teams due to their actions.
I fail to see how he "stooped to their level." Did he threaten them with violence? Did he pledge to jam a baseball bat up their rear? Did he post their address and claim he was going there to beat them to a bloody pulp? No. He just mentioned who they were. That was it.
I'm sick of this "posting graphic statements saying you're going to rape someone and then claiming 'just joking' when you're called on it." I'm sick of people even trying to claim freedom of speech. We have freedom of speech, but not freedom of consequence. If you threaten someone with violence (and, yes, raping someone *IS* violence), don't expect to use "freedom of speech" as a Get Out Of Jail Free card.
Part of this is personal for me. Growing up, I was bullied by a group of kids. I'm male, so the bullying didn't involve rape threats, but it did involve following me around and taunting me. Every. Single. School Day. Multiple times a day. Doors to my classroom would be blocked so I'd have to push past them enduring more taunts. I began to become paranoid that anyone who was laughing was laughing at me. One push one way or another and I could have been another story of a teen taking his own life or going out in a blaze of bullets. Luckily, a friend of mine spoke with my bullies who backed off. Turns out they just thought they were "having a little fun".
And this is what galls me the most. The trolls' friends telling Curt that this was all just kids "having fun." Because, apparently, some kids are so psychopathic that they can't even begin to fathom what their "fun" does to people until it is either made blindingly obvious to them or until they suffer personal consequences.
As a father and as a victim of bullying, I applaud Curt for what he did. He didn't get violent. He didn't rant and rave. He just stood firm, acted like a protective father, and took down some nasty Internet trolls.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
My personal rule is that I never say anything online if I wouldn't say it to a room filled with my wife, my boss, my family, and my friends. (Maybe my kids too, but they're young so there are some things that wouldn't be appropriate for them to hear just yet.) Granted, I would never think of threatening to rape someone's daughter - even as some kind of sick "joke" - no matter how anonymous I thought I was at the time. I guess trolling is just not in my nature. (Something for which I'll spend exactly zero seconds mourning.)
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
... so far, and find that this article is way more interesting and relevant than "the dress."
tyvm
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
why give any advantage to your enemy? the less they know the better.
Sociopaths and Misanthropes are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
The foundation of their illness, the description - basically - no, not basically. At every definition, these are completely different.
LEARN 2 WORD.
I won't beleaguer the point, but you need to be slapped on the ass with a dictionary.
There are too many sociopaths. The internet seems to be a perfect playground where ignorant people can pretend to be informed, and hurt other people in the process.
For the record, if I hurt your feelings, it is probably because you have some factually incorrect dependency or premise which you need to eliminate.
In other words, you should be hurt, so that in later posts you do not make the same mistake.
Since you refuse to clarify, and I, being relatively ignorant, must rely on the dictionary definitions, I don't understand the point you are trying to make:
sociopath: a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.
misanthrope: a person who dislikes humankind and avoids human society.
From those definitions, it appears that it is possible to be a misanthrope and not be sociopathic, but that one of the defining characteristics of being a sociopath is some level of misanthropy (or, at least, misanthropic behaviour). Of course, rather than berating the original poster, perhaps you could attempt to bring clarity. On the other hand, perhaps you were trying to exemplify the misanthropy suggested in the original post, in which case I apologize for missing the joke.
Rhapsody in Numbers
Funny how you only care what handle a poster uses is when they write something you don't like. If they write something you agree with, suddely, their user ID is nothing to comment on.
Says someone who isn't posting under his full first and last name.
You're a moron.
Curt Shilling is the megalomaniac who thought he could transition from jock to major gaming mogul? The guy who caused tax payers to lose about 75 million dollars? Nasty comments about his daughter are out of bounds. But Curt Shilling himself should be ostracized and ridiculed anywhere he goes.
Did Schilling do that with his employees that he ruined while running his copycat game company in the ground?
Did he apologize to Rhode Island for scamming them?
Way to go Kurt Schilling - what a victory. You successfully robbed someone of a job and higher education because they weren't being nice on the internet. Welcome to the internet Kurt - you've got your work cut out for you.
Before you hit him with that dictionary, use it to look up "beleaguer" and "belabor," then reconsider your fifth sentence.
" There were seven others in Curt's crosshairs, all college athletes, but although he hasn't publicly doxxed those individuals" Because he probably couldn't find any info on them. Not everyone is dumb enough to post with their real name.
I can confirm that Skidborg's full name is Skid Borg. Look's like you're the moron, pal.
A tooth for a tooth is bad dentistry.
The headline for this story should read:"People say bad things on internet; man sticks up for own daughter." Not a shocker, and it doesn't change the fact that Curt Schilling is still an asshole.
There's no justification for the things said about his daughter, but I've been acquainted with a fair number of Major League Baseball players through work, and with few exceptions they were all surprisingly humble, nice guys. Schilling was one such exception, and always a dick, so I'm not patting him on the back because he isn't a horrible father.
So are journalism and police investigation or public courts doxxing too? Basically if you're not allowed to break law anonymously, you're being doxxed, yes? Seems to me the discussion is ignoring basic facts: those trolls broke the law. If the law was enforced the way it is supposed to, they would likely end up in criminal court (I am not american, but I am assuming it is not legal to threaten someone with rape over there). Then suspension would have been the least of their worries. Some here said the "punishment" was disproportionate. As opposed to what? If he didn't do nothing or went to the police (same thing), then how proportionate would the punishment be then? Also what do you suppose would happen if they threaten his daughter in public. Would they be suspended then? Do they deserve some sort protection because they did it over the internet? Please. No, what he did was awful. But I don't see any of the other outcomes being better. Its just that any other course of action wouldn't rock the boat so much and that's what we've always hated.
The entire concept of "SJW" as an insult is ridiculous to start with and just makes me think of angry virgins who wonder why the "nice guy", or even just the guy who gets out of the basement, sometimes gets the girl and not them.
The term at least serves a useful role as an angry idiot detector.
Only as dumb as more than 99% of Facebook users.
Remember we used to tell kids not to give out their real name on the net? Then Facebook happened and what used to appear to be dumb is now the default.
It would be truly ironic for you to post what you've written above if your name really is Matthew Ventura.
Even more so if I was really the software dbaseIII that had become self aware over the years instead of someone taking the common form of it's name as a handle.
"I won't beleaguer the point, but you need to be slapped on the ass with a dictionary."
Physician, slap thyself.
Yip, learned that late in junior high, but I did indeed unexpectedly knock a teaser's front teeth out on the school yard.
The principle called my mother in because of the incident and said to her "finally someone who did something against that bully."
Dox, Doxxed, doxxing.
Yet another made up word, where an existing word is already available, widely used, and only a few millimeters longer.
While I can appreciate that stories on slashdot have to keep up with the times, that doesn't mean Headlines should contain uncommon/unnecessarily stupid/undefined words. That just makes slashdot look more stupid than it (usually) already does.
No one should be allowed to post anonymously, unless it's me, because I'm doing it for the "right" reasons.
Different situations call for different responses. It sounds like he made the appropriate response for this situation, but suggesting that "not feeding the trolls" is never the appropriate response is simply misguided. Quick examples from my own life, which I'd imagine are similar to what most of us have dealt with at some time or another...
Are they in it for the fun? Then make it boring as hell. Works great for 90% of Internet trolls. When I dealt with some run-of-the-mill bullying at a new junior high I moved to, simply not giving them any satisfaction was enough to make the bullying dry up in short order. Easy.
Are they doing it to exert control? Then show them they don't have control. The one and only time I was ever hit by someone, it was because he was using force in an effort to intimidate me since it had worked with others in getting him his way. Simply standing up after the hit, looking him square in the eye, and asking, "Are you done now?" before going back to my business was enough to keep him from ever bothering me again, since he didn't have a clue how to deal with me. In fact, we became friends after that, and to the best of my knowledge, mine was the last case of him attempting to bully anyone.
Are they taking because they can? Remind them of the consequences. When I had some drunk neighbors who let their party with underage students turn into an hour-long competitive shouting match (that's not a euphemism for them arguing loudly...they were actually shouting at each other for an hour to see who could do it loudest), I politely asked them at 2:30 AM to take it inside. They refused (and said some other not-nice things, as you might imagine). A quick noise complaint (I didn't mention the underage aspect to the cops) dealt with the problem and ensured it never came up again, since it helped them to see just how close they had come to a set of costly citations they couldn't afford.
There are other types of trolls/bullies/jerks out there, and there are numerous additional responses that may be necessary for dealing with them. Among those is responding in kind, but it is by no means the "only way", as you make it out to be.
My personal rule is that I never say anything online if I wouldn't say it to a room filled with my wife, my boss, my family, and my friends.
Well, not everyone has that luxury. I have the nice thing about having an amazing partner, a few good friends who I really trust and no boss. Which is nice, because I can in principle voice my opinions to them. Not everyone has the luxury, and given I also have a professional reputation to maintain, I don't feel I have the luxury of putting forth all my opinions online with my real name attached.
There are certainly opinions I hold very strongly (it's insane IMO that drawn pictures count as child pornography, for instance, and Im pretty feircly against strict liability in that case as well) which could land me in all sorts of social crap with many people. I'm glad somewhere like slashdot exists where I can have proper, in-depth conversations about serious, important topics with people who have the online appearance of rational adults.
(I know people make jokes about the comments, Betteridges law and etc still aplies, but /. is one of the best comment places out there)
I think being able to say stuff in a forum (which are generally public) without picking up crap off the forum is important. It also takes into account the times I'm drunk, or, frankly when my brain isn't working and I say something outrageously stupid. The latter happens more often than I'd like, but is just words in the wind AFK. Here it is recorded in perpetuity.
So, in conclusion, even though I stand by my opinions, and would stand by them publicly if I had to, I still think it is important to be able to discuss things in public but anonymously.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Speaking as an Anonymous Coward Misanthropic troll: I agree with Bite the Pillow.
I don't troll people because I'm a sociopath any more than Socrates or Diogenes were sociopaths. If antagonizing people by forcing them to face uncomfortable truths or exposing them to emotional distress because shit rolls down hill: every bully on the planet is guilty of Sociopathy because misery loves company.
Internet Trolls are the gutter where the torrent of abuse from real life collects. We don't like being shitty to others, but nobody wants to be the bucket that collects the dysentery so we pass it to the left like slices of birthday cake.
This is itself a fairly sociopathic post. If someone is ignorant, educate them. If they refuse to be educated, others will still learn from what you're saying. The clowns in this story weren't ignorant, they were just assholes.
Why did you assume "man"?
So your contribution to the problem of people being asshats on the internet is to tell OP he needs to be slapped?
[FUCK BETA]
Sadly this will never happen but if we introduce real penalties for internet trolling the internet might just grow up.
Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.
"The clowns in this story weren't ignorant, they were just assholes."
In my experience though, people are often both.
The USA is only 4X older than me...perspective
Sorry, how were you going to beseige, trouble or harass the point about needing to be slapped on the ass with a dictionary? I'd like to see how that works.
www.wavefront-av.com
"belabor" (argue or elaborate (a subject) in excessive detail) rather than "beleaguer" (lay siege to).
They always confuse trolls with haters. A troll provokes and starts useful discussions/flamewars, while a hater just harasses people.
i wonder if hes still so proud that his daughter is joining in.
Howabout we send kids to college to LEARN THINGS rather than send them to play silly games.
Only a misanthrope who's also somewhere within the BPD/NPD complex would have gotten so upset over that distinction.
Slashdot - News for Herds. Stuff that Splatters.
It's a shame you didn't get a baseball bat shoved up your ass. Luckily you posted with your userID, which you can have /. trace back to your IP and I can pretty reasonably determine your location.
Don't worry, I won't tell your boss or your school. And since I'm a nice guy I'll try to remember to beat you unconscious before I sodomize you with a 2x4 so you won't feel the pain until you wake up. Or, maybe I'll just tie you up and let you watch while I do that to one of your family.
The trolls threatened to rape his daughter.
He exposed their identity leading them to be kicked off their teams due to their actions.
I fail to see how he "stooped to their level."
Probably a troll worried about getting a little of their own back. There are some boundaries that you do not cross, such as threatening violence - especially against a family member who isn't even involved. Dey dun crossed 'em. I'm glad they lost their jobs. Maybe they'll starve or end up homeless. That would be cool.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Why can't a sociopath embrace human society and like people? That doesn't stop them doing nasty things.
I like my small furry creatures in Lemmings. I teach them how to help themselves. They're lovely and cute and so sweet when I tell them to commit suicide, and go, "Oh no!" just before making like fundamentalist muslim.
Never heard that term before....?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
As a fellow victim of bullying, though mine was far more pervasive and ongoing, I would tend to agree with you, except for the possibility of doxing the wrong people. There are enough double-plus evil trolls out there who can hack someone else's account and use it to do their trolling that there is too high of a chance of retaliating against the wrong people. In schools that have adopted no tolerance rules against bullying, the truly evil have started accusing the innocent of bullying them, thus using the system to do the bullying for them. This is why a more measured response, with LOTS of due diligence is called for. It may not be as immediately gratifying, but it is part of the foundation that makes society civilized. Yes, even though our current legal system is a mess.
I'm not the original poster, but there are more reasons to post as AC than just "I'm afraid of being linked with my response." In my case, I'm too lazy to sign in, haven't used my (5-digit!) account in years. Since I don't have to, and it's not like there's really a reputation system around here, so ehh, it doesn't matter.
You damn moron. There is nothing wrong with his post. He didn't imply sociopaths and misanthropes were the same, and it's foolish for you to assume that was his meaning.
Sociopaths often exhibit misanthropy.
Read up on things before you go around trying to correct people, dipshit.
If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
He wants to belieber him.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
That is a danger, yes. If someone is attacking you online, you should be careful if you're going to retaliate in this manner. Still, in this case, the outed trolls admitted it was them and apologized (though it was more of a "sorry I got caught" then an actual apology).
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
I won't beleaguer the point
The common phrase that you're looking for is "belabor the point".
I guess "beleaguer" makes a modest amount of sense, but "belabor" is definitely a better fit here. Once you've finished beating others over the head with your dictionary, I recommend that you look up those two words and decide for yourself.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
Ah shit - a misanthrope with a dictionary...
Your story sounds similar to mine. My own father suggested once that I fight fire with fire and physically fight my bullies. He didn't seem to understand it was rarely a one-on-one situation, and that I would likely experience repercussions for doing that. I got jumped one day and then I got in trouble with the school for fighting, and got the same punishment as the bullies. I went to teachers and school administrators who did nothing, or worse, blamed me and said that I needed to change, and that I should try and be friendly with them. Every day, all day, I was teased, harrassed, and sometimes physically assaulted and I had no recourse or anybody to stand up for me and say "Enough. This behavior is wrong and you should learn that lesson now." It was hellacious and I wish it on nobody. It only stopped for me when I changed schools. If it hadn't, I seriously might have wound up dead.
From that point of view, I applaud Mr. Schilling. He's not attacking them, not insulting them, not threatening them. He's just spotlighting their behavior and letting their own actions damn them. It's something I wish someone had done for me, and it is really all it takes to stop bullying.
I certainly don't think that every instance of banter, teasing, or downright mean-spirited comment/exchange should be banned/censored/punished, and I think that some people do not understand that those things are not what I mean when I discuss bullying. Bullying is not the same as simple teasing, healthy banter, or even outright rude/meanness. Bullying is on a whole different level, and it is usually farily obvious when someone crosses the line, like these guys that Mr. Schilling is calling out. It may be hard to define, but I think the old argument about where 'artwork' ends and pornography begins applies. It is hard to make a good legal distinction, but as the quote goes, "I know it when I see it"
I find your post sociopathic as well. Broadcasting your views (about education, ignorance, clowns) as if you're the center of the world. Clearly, you need to learn some empathy for uneducated, ignorant people.
yes. obviously they should die for words they speak. you are a wise and just person.
yes. obviously they should die for words they speak. you are a wise and just person.
And you? Maybe not so much.
But people are going ot have to come to grips with the fact that we aren't quite as anonymous on the net as we thing we are, so the time approaches when people with dark souls that might think rape is funny will suffer the legal repercussions to making those threats.
We don't have to agree on everything, but we should all use proper manners and stick within the law. Bill and Ted said it best - "Be excellent to each other."
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
This only works because we're now in the Age of Political Correctness. Once we move over to either a completely anonymous commenting situation or back to a "I don't care what you do in your free time as long as you don't do it here or on the clock" attitude with employers, doxxing won't work anymore.
When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
You're an OFF TOPIC troll yourself, Mr. Pot calling a kettle black http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
APK
P.S.=> Man - people like you? "Holier than thou" bullshitters?? They're ALWAYS the BIGGEST ABUSERS of what they preach, & NEVER practice - see subject & that link quoting you in EXACTLY what I show you for: Being an off-topic troll on your part, hypocrite... apk
who decides proper manners? a century ago it probably wasn't "proper manners" for a woman to you know... speak. or wear pants. but that's off-topic.
i'm a bit more liberal than the average american, but i'm of the firm belief that all speech, all expression no matter how offensive should be protected from and by the law. It scares me that if i speak the wrong words, i might ruin my life, that if i contribute to the wrong political philosophy or campaign, i could ruin my life. I could ruin my life with a single tweet.
And the thing ruining my life is the judgmental, vicious and gleeful masses.
I like to think that i try to be excellent to others... but that in some very small part entails being excellent to those that are not excellent to me.
who decides proper manners? a century ago it probably wasn't "proper manners" for a woman to you know... speak. or wear pants. but that's off-topic.
i'm a bit more liberal than the average american, but i'm of the firm belief that all speech, all expression no matter how offensive should be protected from and by the law. It scares me that if i speak the wrong words, i might ruin my life,
Free speech has limits. Your free speech does not include the right to make terroristic threats. If you threaten to kill someone, then I have absolutely no idea any place where that would not be considered a threat to harm a person. Good manners or not, I recall early on, my parents told me "Never never ever threaten to kill someone." Must have made an impression on me, because I gave my son the exact same advice.
Which is all to say, if you threaten harm to a person, and harm comes to that person, guess who's going be knocking on your door to chat with you? Better have a good alabi.
that if i contribute to the wrong political philosophy or campaign, i could ruin my life.
That is certainly not in the mix here, that's way overstating what I've said. Normal discourse is protected.free speech. We can call each other names all day.
I could ruin my life with a single tweet.
Yes you could. You could threaten violence upon someone, disclose company or state secrets, admit infidelity or write something ridiculously stupid about your employer. On there and other services, people have bragged about or shown items they have stolen or about mistreating others. Yes, a stupid single tweet could be a life altering experience. And people have altered their lives.
Which by the way, is why I always strongly advise against using Twitter. The format simply encourages ill thought out texting and responses.
And the thing ruining my life is the judgmental, vicious and gleeful masses.
Or your wife, or employer, or Government as the case may be. Or you.
Regardless, that isn't even involved in what I'm talking about. I'm talking about matters that would get you in legal trouble if you said it in someone's presence. I don't know if you are married or not, but if someone threatened to kill you or whoever you loved, you would just not care or do anything about it? Or not do anything about it?
I cannot imagine anyone not having astrong visceral response to someone threatening non-consensual violent forced sex upon their daughter, and if you can say you'd meet with that person - well good for you. Perhaps not so good for your loved ones if the person threateing the violence carries through on the threat.
I like to think that i try to be excellent to others... but that in some very small part entails being excellent to those that are not excellent to me.
You and I have quite a different idea of what entails "not being excellent" I think. I love a good discussion with different ideas, even where people might call each other silly or stupid or petty, or ofter such comments.
But threats are indicative of a person losing control. And people losing control sometimes carry through on those threats.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
It's real within the metaphor.
Just think of Inception mixed with the Matrix. :-)
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
i think the exceptions for incitement to imminent violence and you know threatennig speech are enough restraints. I was speaking generally, in this particular circumstance, i'd say the "credible threat" test would need to be met. How credible are these threats to his daughter? are they local, are they classmates? are they just dicks being dicks? If i threaten to harm someone from 1000 miles away, my alibi is, i was 1000 miles away.
My examples were brendan eich, losing his job over 1000 dollars to a political campaign, and justine sacco losing her job, and probably 3-4 years of her life over 1 tweet. It wasn't the employer, it was the mob that forced their hand.
The problem with taking threats seriously on the internet, is that probably a fraction of a percent could possibly be credible. I really do mean I believe .005 of them are actually credible. The rest are just people venting/mini-trolling, everybody gets the impulse once or twice in their life to really just mess with someone that's taking something too seriously. You've gotta cross off the trolls, the people who are all just talk, the people that can't track you down, and adolescents... what are you left with?
I'd be more afraid of someone on the internet that threatened to steal my hypothetical daughter's identity than someone who threatened to rape her... one involves literally tracking her down, the other can be done from anywhere.
How credible are these threats to his daughter?
We don't know until we look into them, do we?
My examples were brendan eich, losing his job over 1000 dollars to a political campaign,
Part of that mob was the people that worked for him. We always have to remember that while we have free speech, everyone does. You cannot stop the reactions.
and justine sacco losing her job, and probably 3-4 years of her life over 1 tweet.
Well, in truth, there was more thsn one, and she set herself up as a real first class celf centered bitch with her B.O. and bad teeth tweets as well as the weird Aids/blacks one.
But as in all things she had the right to be just as insensitive, mean, and nasty as she wanted to be.
And everone else had the right to react in a way they saw fit.
As I've said before Twitter makes it easy to destroy your life. Avoid it like the plague. Especially if you're prone to temper tantrums or antisocial statements.
In reality, what is the compulsion the self orbiting self centered cruel aspects of person who someehow believes that it is appropriate to tell the entire world that some European in the plane has Body odor, but drugs to the rescue, or that she thinks all British people have bad teeth, or that final one, which would indicate she plans on getting laid in South Africa, but not by a black guy, because they apparently are the only ones who have AIDS?
Especially cute was a 2012 tweet:
“I had a sex dream about an autistic kid last night,”
Ummm, Ewww?
Now, should she have lost her job?
While there are arguments to be made for or against, but a senior director of corporate communications most very definitely should know not to tweet about having sex with autistic kids, or the other crap she tweeted about.
If I were running the show there she would be fired, not so much for the specific contents of the tweets, but for the completely unintelligent and unprofessional conduct she displayed. You simply do not put that shit out on the web. Not ever.
It wasn't the employer, it was the mob that forced their hand.
I think you confuse large numbers of people with being somehow wrong. IAC is an international company, and it doesn't do for senior officials complaining about likely customers, especially with such tired old memes. of smelly Europeans, Brits with bad teeth, and Black people and AIDS. It's terrible publicity, and can cost you money. This woman managed to insult British, Germans, South Africans and Black people, and the bizarre sex with an autistic kid dream tweet might have landed a man in jail, so she should maybe sit back, and realize that the only people who would give a rats ass about her self-obsession are people that might not find it so funny. In short, she could cost her company a lot of customers.
The problem with taking threats seriously on the internet, is that probably a fraction of a percent could possibly be credible.
I get it. Problem is you just aren't supposed to do that. Actions have consequences, and people need to exercise a modicum of self control. If you think that threatening physical harm on a person is just for the LulZ, you have to be prepared that someone is going to take that seriously, and apply the same response as if you threatened them in person.
There are so many ways to exercise disagreement. I've been called an asshat (you're thinking, no kidding?) a jerk, fuckwad, been told to go die in a fire and other crap which are not direct threats. No need to go much further, and people simply need to learn that actions have consequences, and that there ar eother ways to express themselves. We simply don't have to be lawbreakers to enjoy arguing with each other.
And for the tweeters, it's always a good thing to consider thinking "can this come back to bite me in the ass?" before hitting the send button.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
"Part of that mob was the people that worked for him. We always have to remember that while we have free speech, everyone does. You cannot stop the reactions."
i am acutely aware that it is people exercising their own right to free speech that i am frightened of. I am not actually for regulation of the mob... i just wish the mob were more tempered. I have no solution, i'm just particularly frightened of the direction we seem to be going. I don't want to live in a society where the brendan eichs of the world can be forced out because they put money behind an unpopular opinion... that they are engaged in the legislative process the way we always say we want every good voter to. I don't want people to muzzle themselves on the internet from making jokes with friends or trying to be funny.
Sacco had like 500 followers max, it was basically people familiar with her and presumably familiar with her style of humor. Apparently the journalist who first propogated her tweet, was himself castigated and roasted a year later for making a tweet "making light" of bullying. He told a shitty joke, and they crucified him for it.
The speed of social media, combined with the radical shift to political correctness that we seem to have come across spells the death of humor and criticism. I don't want to live in that world, but i'm afraid it's the world we're in.
I agree that people shouldn't make that threats, like threats threats, against others on the internet. It's in poor taste. What i disagree with is taking as seriously as all that, and the appropriate response.
also, ... it got bad enough she ran away from the english-speaking world for a year.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02...
on your last sentence...
apparently a while back dan savage got in trouble for using the word "tranny" while in the midst of a discussion of why he considered it no longer okay to use the word "tranny." which, apparently makes sense to someone somewhere.
The Left is eating its own, and no amount of PC can cover you these days if someone is on the prowl looking to be offended.
My point overall is, we live in the kind of environment where the public reaction is in some circumstances worse by an order of magnitude than what a judge would deem appropriate, and i really really wish it were different.
> I won't beleaguer the point, but you need to be slapped on the ass with a dictionary.
Beleaguer? Really? I think you meant 'belabour'.
How could you dox Curt Schilling?
One word. Daughter.
As for "name recognition" - I'm sure he'd love everything else about him to be known too.
Like where he keeps his keys or his credit card numbers, phone numbers, alarm codes...
Hey! Does name John Pike ring a bell?
It should. Bunch of internet vigilantes doxed him - winning him $38000 of taxpayer money in the process.
But first they caused him " to suffer from depression and anxiety" by sending him "17,000 angry or threatening emails, 10,000 text messages, and hundreds of letters".
How many dead cats can you fit inside a mailbox? How 'bout death threats?
She can probably handle it, but why should she have to?
I don't know.
I'm not her asshole dad who put the target on her back by acting all vigilante justice nor am I a crazyass who has it in for jocks acting all "I'ma gonna show em whose bows".
I'm sure all those internet tough guys really love and admire those people making millions playing with balls and then acting like judge-jury-executioner combo like laws don't apply to them.
What could possibly go wrong, right?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Welcome to Slashdot -- where a distinction between the definition of "misanthrope" and "sociopath" gets modded to +5 Insightful, and discussions about the actual article are modded as flamebait.