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Does USB Type C Herald the End of Apple's Proprietary Connectors?
An anonymous reader writes The Verge has an interesting editorial about the USB Type C connector on the new Macbook, and what this might mean for Apple's Lightning and Thunderbolt connectors. The former is functionally identical to USB Type C, and the latter has yet to prove popular in the external media and "docking" applications for which it was originally intended. Will Apple phase out these ports in favour of a single, widely-accepted, but novel standard? Or do we face a dystopian future where Apple sells cords with USB Type C on one end, and Lightning on the other?
Thunderbolt is not a proprietary connector to Apple. It is a standard that Intel has made available and i've seen non-Apple computers with Thunderbolt.
They would do whatever makes them more money, is there any doubt about that?
I'll take "contributing factors to Apple's single digit market share for $500 Alex."
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
I don't know who the hell thinks it's a good idea to extend the PCI-E connection to the outside and to allow sticking any untrusted device into that. At least with "classic" USB the operating system has a fighting chance to fend off malware coming in through that (OK, some OSes don't even try). But with PCI-E? No chance.
I have no idea whether USB-C inherits this brain damage or not.
Since Steve Jobs came back Apple has only introduced proprietary connectors when there was a really good reason for them to do so. Lightning was introduced because Micro USB was considered sub-par by Apple. And let's face it: There is some truth to that. Lightning is sturdier, easyer to handle, has more data throughput and IIRC more relyable electrical specs. Say about Apple what you want, but unlike quite a few other tech companies they actually know what they are doing and why and they don't short-change hardware design decisions. Their market evaluation seems to prove them right.
In a nutshell: If Apple decides that USB C is worthwhile and offers upsides vis-a-vis lightning, it could be that this actually is the case, and Lightning actually is on the way out.
As for Thunderbolt: Unlike what quite a few tech experts think, it is *not* an Apple specific spec, but a standardised port. It's only that Apple likes to use it more than any other vendor.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Did you forget your sarcasm tag? Since when has DisplayPort "failed"? Every single Dell monitor, for example, comes with both full-size and mini Displayport ports. Also, Thunderbolt is Intel's standard not Apple's.
Apple has never been a commodity computer company. Herd mentality always seems to head in the direction of the cheapest tech out there even though there are far superior offerings out there. Just look at how VHS won out over Beta. That's video tape for those of you too young to know or care how we got where we are.
Still, you can contrast with DockPort, which is a *VESA* standard.
Like Thunderbolt, it does enable an additional flux of data for peripherals and docks, but unlike ThunderBolt, it uses USB3.0 instead of PCIe for the peripherals.
(Also meaning that it will be more easy to use with portable devices, which tend to already have USB support built-in, but not necessarily a PCIe bus).
Also DockPort introduce high power availability for charging portable devices (again an advantage for portable device).
Now with TFA's anouncement, that means that even further does the two grow closer.
You can imagin USB-C to DisplayPort cable for portable devices using this (just like MHL standart enabled using micro-USB to HDMI cables).
Except that it also delivers power to charge the device (and doesn't rely on a 3rd different protocol like MHL).
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
And to add, basically every single consumer Nvidia video card I've bought and have seen been released for 5 years or so have all had Displayport ports. You have an interesting notion of "failure".
USB C still has that ridiculous plastic tab inside the female port that can break quite easily if you trip on the cable. Plus in a pocket it can fill with lint and prevent the cable from seating securely.
Thankfully USB C is reversible (finally!) but compared to the proprietary Apple connector, it still is inferior in my opinion.
Dell has DisplayPort ports in basically all of their monitors as well. This guy lives in some alternate universe bubble if he thinks nobody wants or uses DisplayPort beyond Apple.
Try an $80 adapter... just to get HDMI. This new laptop makes no sense. I can't think of anybody I know who doesn't use HDMI with their laptops, even if it is just as a way of piping Netflix to a hotel TV while traveling. And I can't think of anybody who doesn't use a USB port, even if it is just for charging an iPhone. So pretty much 100% of laptop users will have to own this enormously overpriced, clumsy adapter and carry it around with them at all times, just so they could make that computer slightly thinner.
Worse, most users polled would rather Apple make laptops thicker to give us better battery life, because the real-world battery life is a third what Apple claims unless you do nothing more complex than running Word and a web browser. A whole day running Xcode or Photoshop? Yeah, right. Making them even thinner and taking away ports that nearly everybody uses is exactly the opposite of what users are asking for.
Who did they design this for again? Apple managers?
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
hahaha, I did presentations at a conference this past weekend and shared the mini-DisplayPort to VGA adapter I have in my bag with lots of folks with all different hardware.
I'm using a high-spec Taiwanese laptop with Fedora and used this "failed" spec quite effectively.
The 8K display I have on my wishlist is definitely going to use _only_ DisplayPort.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
No of course Apple isn't over priced... sigh : http://www.forbes.com/sites/ti...
Something is only overpriced if no one is willing to pay the price.
I think it would increasingly create problems with EU legislation not to have USB port on telephone (AFAIK, so far they are circumventing this using adaptor, which is risky move with regulators). And USB-C is finally "good enough" for them not to push too hard on this, for banning iPhone in EU altogether would be a nightmare for them.
839*929
They designed this for the people who don't use laptops heavily and are blown away by thin/light.... in other words, most people. Putting a $150-200 Core M CPU in a $1500 laptop is just incredible... this laptop has tablet guts. And the amazing thing is that people will buy them and many that don't will lust for them.
6 USB ports? - Lets see - mouse, keyboard (sometimes), phone charge cable, external hard drive, memory stick. I guess I don't need 6 but 3 is a minimum. HDMI- ? yes for big screens in meeting rooms. VGA - not as common as HDMI for big screens, but still out there, could do without. eSATA - dont use it.
None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
AMD went full-on for DisplayPort as well. The EyeFinity system uses mini DisplayPorts to give you that many ports on a 2-slot card.
My HP monitor has it and lacks an HDMI input.
Many laptops have a "DP++" connector that is a dual-function DisplayPort + HDMI depending on what you plug into it.
Not a failure in the least...
Lightning was designed from the ground up to be a very sturdy plug supporting an iPad or an iPhone in a dock or with physical use. After checking out the drawings on usb-c it is much better than usb-micro, but it is still based on very thin metalsheet and I do not think Apple would change a superior design that they invented themselves to another that can not handle the spec.
Thunderbolt at (thunderbolt2 now) is of open to use by others using intel hw, but it is more for the pro market, or people that have better demands, it can handle displays bandwidth of 5k @60hz and run external disks as fast as internal, which is impressive. That tech won't disappear on apples pro machines.
I would guess the next iPad Pro would have usb3 bus speed, but I doubting actually that apple would integrate that in iPhones. Is the usb3 hw possible to make as small as the usb2 hw in the phone right now? if yes they will integrate it, but if not it would take time as they won't use space of their thin phones to that... As people using them mostly wirelessly....
My current laptop, an ASUS ZenBook, is dying because it has a damaged power input port - the motherboard is cracked, and it is becoming increasingly unreliable. In the past year, two tablets in my household have died because the micro-USB ports which serve as their power connectors had ceased to work - presumably due to wear. And now Apple are bringing out a new laptop with just one port which is technically similar to a USB connector. How durable is it? How will it stand up to knocks and accidental falls? If that port fails, the machine is dead - and replacement of the port inevitably means soldering the motherboard, which is skilled and consequently expensive work.
The nature of a laptop which is used on the move is that it has a hard life. The Apple MagSafe connector is a brilliant design because it is not susceptible to wear and relatively invulnerable to knocks, trips and falls. I had already made up my mind that my next laptop would be a MacBook, simply because of the MagSafe connector. So I'm aghast at the decision to abandon it. It seems perverse!
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
As I understand it presently, there's no ethernet on USB-C. That's really disappointing. I have applications that require the higher dependability of ethernet as opposed to wifi. And the whole USB to Ethernet dongle thing... that tends to not work so well, at least thus far. There's also the additional security of not being OTA, where anyone in range can intercept your packets.
I'm all for as wireless as possible -- charging, etc. -- but I really don't think it's a good idea to remove the hardwired network connection. Particularly in that ethernet is so well supported across the board.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Friend, if you let people get close enough to your hardware to muck with your thunderbolt connector, you didn't have any security anyway.
Restriction of physical access is an absolute first-level requirement for any kind of data / hardware security. Without it, you have nothing. And they have anything they want. There are no exceptions. Absolutely perfect, hardware-based Fingerprint lock? Just open the computer -- with a torch or diamond saw if required -- and walk away with the drives; read and/or decode 'em at your convenience.
Physical access means you have already 100% given up on security; you either trust everyone who has such access 100%, or you must actively restrict them somehow during such access -- guards, monitored cameras, etc.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
You won't need an $80 adapter just to get HDMI; there will be lots of third party cheap adapters since DisplayPort (and by extension HDMI) over USB-C are a VESA standard. But you will need that adapter if you want both HDMI and charging your laptop at the same time.
Dell, HP,Lenovo, ASUS all are the worst for "special secret" connectors for power. In fact they are WORSE than apple as they change the damn connector from model to model. At least magsave has stayed somewhat the same for large chunks of time.
I really hope the EU adopts USB-C and forces the laptop makers all to use it for the power connection. It's utterly stupid that we have been forced to have random power plugs on laptops.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
You mean the $80 adapter that does HDMI, USB A, and USB C "passthrough"?
Because that's all I can find, other than the one that does VGA instead of HDMI.
So it's not "just to get HDMI" -- it's either better, or worse, depending on how one spins it.
Plainly it's not a good laptop for you. And I'm awful goddamn certain that it is definitely not a good laptop for me, because I do plug all manner of random stuff into my computers on a regular basis.
But not everyone does.
Meanwhile, peripherals are sure to get cheaper. This laptop was announced -- what, yesterday? And USB 3.1 passed through the usual standards-body channels only as recently as the end of July?
It's still just USB -- albeit on steroids, and with a different connector. It's electrically-compatible with USB 3.0 and 2.0, and I'd frankly be shocked if actual implementations didn't also work with 1.1 and 1.0.
The market will fill with cheap (first $20, then $12, then $5, [...]) passive adapters that present a USB A connector for plugging in traditional periphery soon enough, and the early adopters will pay Apple $80.
And, yes, we do need a better system than common USB for charging devices: 3.1 is that system, and is said to be capable of delivering 100 Watts.
Do I think it's foolhardy to have a laptop with only one physical external port, especially if charging requires that same port? Yep. But do I give a shit? Nope. I won't buy one, and I frankly don't care if anyone else does or not.
It's not my problem.
(I might buy a laptop with three of them, though, but I also want HDMI -and- DisplayPort -and- Cardbus -and- ExpressCard -and- normal USB A sockets in addition to USB C sockets, -and- ...)
Kid-proof tablet..
mini USB ports became a shambles when all the new devices started breaking the specs to charge higher power devices. I din't follow this closely but it seems there are ways a USB device can can communicate that it would accept higher then default power levels. But in my experience this is totally broken. High power chargers from one manufactuer don't work with others. IN some cases the higher power devices just won't charge. When I plug my iphone into my car it constantly resets as it tries to draw too much power and the car circuit breaker kicks in. My Kindle won't charge at all on most of my wall plugs. My Dlink USB hub which has several high power ports on it will not supply high current on those when it is also plugged into the computer making them useless for charging high power devices (why have a hub you don't plug it into the computer?).
So it's total chaos in the USB world unless your phone or kindle will allow low power charging and the charging device doesn't overload when using such a device.
You also can't combine the high speed I/O functions on the USB with some low speed devices. Video output is non-standard.
The lightning blade style connector is incredibly strong, it's reversible, it's very easy to clean the socket when pocket lint gets in there. And there's so many apple devices out there that use it, there's no reason it needs to be a standard to be widely usable and widely available. There's plenty of authorized clones as well as even more cheapo knockoffs available at any gas station. In some ways being apple-only is an advantage since they can customize the power chips to get just the right power levels to the device by not trying to be everything to everyone.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
there's a dongle for anything really. Apple just deprecates things slightly ahead of people realzing they soon won't need that. I recall when apple dropped the modem socket. I figured I needed that for sure and bought a modem dongle but then found I never used it. Ethernet had become easy to find then next time I traveled. When they dropped the ethernet socket, I bought an ethernet dongle. I used it about 10 times in many years. Wifi is just ubiquitous. Even when it's not around tethering to my phone was easier than reaching in the bag for the dongle and then finding a chair near an availble ethernet port. When they dropped the DVD I thought I'd miss it but oddly about the same time I stopped burning DVDs and started using thumb drives and DropBox only. The same was true when apple dropped parallel ports and then Floppies.
So apple will make dongles to bridge the momentary time you need to bridge with legacy devices, then you will find everything new you buy is wireless. It's interesting the headphone jack is still there since bluetooth chips are so cheap, easy to use, and are smaller than the headphone jack itself. I guess the problem for wireless headphones is powering them requires too many batteries.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Apple exists by giving consumers what they will buy, not what they want. For example, you will never see a "Mac Pro Mini" which is what consumers want, but Apple will not sell, forcing people to buy the canister or go with a Mini or iMac, and replace it in a year or two.
This MacBook (not a MacBook Air, nor a MacBook Pro) is aimed at a definite market segment, arguably the biggest buyer of Apple's computers... college students.
It appears to be aimed at getting rid of the two MBA offerings, being a 12 inch model. I would guess that in a year or so, the 11 and 13 inch MacBook Air models will get pulled.
For the college student segment, this MacBook will sell. It has enough disk space/RAM/CPU to run what most students will need for classwork (Web browser, office suite, basic gaming, BootCamp, and so on.) It has decent security, especially if FileVault is turned on and the user has a good password (the password is arguably the weakest link.)
Of course, I can see the accessory market for this thing:
1: Bluetooth and Wi-Fi connected hard drives. Apple definitely has a dog in this hunt with their Time Capsule appliance. Other devices will be usable, but it might be good to use Apple's Disk Utility and store data in an encrypted sparse bundle image.
2: Even cheap printers would get BT or Wi-Fi connections.
3: A good port replicator/dock, which can take the entire laptop, and offer basic ports (Thunderbolt, USB 3/2/1, HDMI, VGA, common power plug, FireWire, etc.), but offer a way to lock the device down.
4: This is a head scratcher for me. Laptops are easy money for thieves. Why can't Apple come up with a Kensington slot lock replacement, or just use a Kensington slot lock, even if it is a small metal tab that slides out just enough to allow the mechanism to be attached, but sturdy enough that removal will cause obvious damage.
The only real way I can see right now to physically secure this MacBook is to put it into a locking metal enclosure and use a keyboard/mouse/monitor with it... and not all locking metal enclosures are the same. For example, I can have one fabbed that uses two Abloy PROTEC2 cam locks (one on each side of the drawer. This will resist picking attempts, and if forced open, will be obvious enough that the insurance company will just rubber-stamp the claim as approved.
While all this is true, back in the day we heard the same sorts of arguments about Firewire being awesome for disk arrays, daisy chaining and video camcorders, and it never really gained any traction against USB, and instead flickered out. USB will no doubt just create a v4 standard to address shortcomings *just enough* to keep the protests at bay, and then with its wide install base and cheaper cost will no doubt trounce thunderbolt, and Apple will eventually drop it just like firewire.
History always repeats itself when it comes to connectors in the consumer space, because most consumers don't see enough benefit in their use cases to justify the high cost. Most are not running big arrays of disks in their closets. As a result, the cheap, widespread technology wins, not necessarily the most feature rich technology. Thunderbolt's best hope is that it can continue to live on in the enterprise space somewhere and not die completely.
They do, however, eventually listen to the market. Where are the firewire ports on your Apple?
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it.
The USB Type C connector was designed with future expandability in mind. I expect that it will reign for at least a decade and maybe more.
Here's Apple's real problem: the MacBook Air is a better laptop in almost every aspect.
* The MacBook Air is significantly cheaper
* The MacBook Air is significantly more powerful
* The MacBook Air has much better connectivity and usability
* The MacBook Air requires no external adapters besides power, the MacBook will likely be used with a video and/or network adapter as well
* The MacBook has a better display
* The MacBook is 15% lighter and 25% thinner, but they're practically indistinguishable compared to regular laptops, or even the MacBook Pro
Honestly, what they should have done is this:
Make a new MacBook Air using most of the MacBook's features (thinner, USB-C ports for charging/connectivity), make the better display an add-on option (to keep the MBA as the entry-level Mac option), and don't needlessly split your product line.
That's one of the few things Jobs did that I won't argue with - he streamlined the product lineup. When there were multiple computers that fit the same niche, he ditched all but one. The MacBook and MacBook Air now fit the same niche - almost exactly. There is zero reason for them to both exist.
I do like the idea of ditching legacy ports for thinness. I wouldn't need it myself, but I like the idea. But just one USB-C port, period? If it were me, I'd have four USB-C ports, a Mini-DisplayPort or Thunderbolt (or two, even), an audio port, and maybe a Micro-HDMI (since HDMI is way more common than DisplayPort, and you can convert Micro-HDMI to HDMI with a dirt-cheap passive cable). That's more than enough connectivity, but it still uses nothing that would impact your thickness. There's no need to limit it to just one USB port.
I foresee a mess coming because of the number of pins in USB type-C.
One of the big benefits to USB was that it was only 4 wires: power, ground, and a differential pair. Years ago, we all laughed at the Apple dock connector and it's gzillion pins. USB type-C seems like a throwback, with 24-pins, and a microchip. It looks like 18 of those pins require unique wires (since the ground and power pins can be shared). So that means that where I have a 4-wire USB cable now, the replacement is an 18-wire cable. Of course, most things won't need all of the features, so most cables will probably have far fewer wires than that. They'll omit the configuration wire, the sidechannel wire, the'll make the bus power a smaller gauge, eliminate some of the unused differential pairs, etc. If that happens, you will no longer be able to use any old USB cable for anything. You'll need to know what wires each USB cable has to know what devices it works with. So they'll start labeling them with nifty names like "USB type-C Lion" which has 18 gauge bus pins, and "USB type-C Gamma Monkey" which has 18 gauge bus pins and the sidechannel pins. And they will be more expensive.
That is a severely regressive design move.
This computer should have retained magsafe for charging then had one of these USB-C things for, you know, port stuff.
My current MBP would have been knocked from table/chair to floor ten times now if not for magsafe. What the hell were they thinking?
I can only hope the next ultralight MB Pro retains magsafe and a couple of ports.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
Now they need to sell you an adapter that takes the one port and makes into 2, 3 or 4 ports for $80 or more.