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Does USB Type C Herald the End of Apple's Proprietary Connectors?
An anonymous reader writes The Verge has an interesting editorial about the USB Type C connector on the new Macbook, and what this might mean for Apple's Lightning and Thunderbolt connectors. The former is functionally identical to USB Type C, and the latter has yet to prove popular in the external media and "docking" applications for which it was originally intended. Will Apple phase out these ports in favour of a single, widely-accepted, but novel standard? Or do we face a dystopian future where Apple sells cords with USB Type C on one end, and Lightning on the other?
Thunderbolt is not a proprietary connector to Apple. It is a standard that Intel has made available and i've seen non-Apple computers with Thunderbolt.
They would do whatever makes them more money, is there any doubt about that?
I'll take "contributing factors to Apple's single digit market share for $500 Alex."
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
I don't know who the hell thinks it's a good idea to extend the PCI-E connection to the outside and to allow sticking any untrusted device into that. At least with "classic" USB the operating system has a fighting chance to fend off malware coming in through that (OK, some OSes don't even try). But with PCI-E? No chance.
I have no idea whether USB-C inherits this brain damage or not.
Since Steve Jobs came back Apple has only introduced proprietary connectors when there was a really good reason for them to do so. Lightning was introduced because Micro USB was considered sub-par by Apple. And let's face it: There is some truth to that. Lightning is sturdier, easyer to handle, has more data throughput and IIRC more relyable electrical specs. Say about Apple what you want, but unlike quite a few other tech companies they actually know what they are doing and why and they don't short-change hardware design decisions. Their market evaluation seems to prove them right.
In a nutshell: If Apple decides that USB C is worthwhile and offers upsides vis-a-vis lightning, it could be that this actually is the case, and Lightning actually is on the way out.
As for Thunderbolt: Unlike what quite a few tech experts think, it is *not* an Apple specific spec, but a standardised port. It's only that Apple likes to use it more than any other vendor.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Did you forget your sarcasm tag? Since when has DisplayPort "failed"? Every single Dell monitor, for example, comes with both full-size and mini Displayport ports. Also, Thunderbolt is Intel's standard not Apple's.
Apple has never been a commodity computer company. Herd mentality always seems to head in the direction of the cheapest tech out there even though there are far superior offerings out there. Just look at how VHS won out over Beta. That's video tape for those of you too young to know or care how we got where we are.
Still, you can contrast with DockPort, which is a *VESA* standard.
Like Thunderbolt, it does enable an additional flux of data for peripherals and docks, but unlike ThunderBolt, it uses USB3.0 instead of PCIe for the peripherals.
(Also meaning that it will be more easy to use with portable devices, which tend to already have USB support built-in, but not necessarily a PCIe bus).
Also DockPort introduce high power availability for charging portable devices (again an advantage for portable device).
Now with TFA's anouncement, that means that even further does the two grow closer.
You can imagin USB-C to DisplayPort cable for portable devices using this (just like MHL standart enabled using micro-USB to HDMI cables).
Except that it also delivers power to charge the device (and doesn't rely on a 3rd different protocol like MHL).
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
And to add, basically every single consumer Nvidia video card I've bought and have seen been released for 5 years or so have all had Displayport ports. You have an interesting notion of "failure".
As mentioned elsewhere in here, Thunderbolt is fine as it's an open spec and is intended for different use cases than USB, and it also shares a port design with mini-Displayport (which we can thank Apple for openly releasing that connector standard).
Lightning, while a very good physical design for a connector will likely fall soon as the power benefits of USB-C are too good to pass up and iPad/Macbook Airs without it are going to seem antiquated when every other tablet and ultrabook will be sharing a universal charging system. However Apple is no worse a shape than every other phone manufacturer. They'll release new models with USB-C along with every other manufacturer as then every user can complain equally for the next couple years that they need all new cables and chargers.
If Apple double downs on Lightning and sticks with it I would be extremely impressed with their level of stubbornness.
Remember displayport? Apple adopted it completely and nobody else wanted quite literally HDMI without audio.
Display port supports audio.
They made their own mini-connector which especially went nowhere.
That mini connector is the display port accepted mini port and the standardized connector for thunderbolt.
Then they dropped it and screwed over anyone who did adopt it early.
No they didn't the mini display port works in thunderbolt ports.
Tada, Thunderbolt is out. Nobody wants or uses that either.
Except for everyone that uses it.
In case you aren't seeing the pattern,
I see a pattern of you being an idiot.
Oh thank jobs you clarified that.
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
I may not have taken this summary entirely seriously when I was writing it. I am so, so sorry. :(
USB C still has that ridiculous plastic tab inside the female port that can break quite easily if you trip on the cable. Plus in a pocket it can fill with lint and prevent the cable from seating securely.
Thankfully USB C is reversible (finally!) but compared to the proprietary Apple connector, it still is inferior in my opinion.
How dare you bring facts into Apple bashing session!
Dell has DisplayPort ports in basically all of their monitors as well. This guy lives in some alternate universe bubble if he thinks nobody wants or uses DisplayPort beyond Apple.
Who the hell has monitors with audio in them?
Some people do so they don't have to have external speakers. Of course most monitor speakers are crap.
Yeah, and they're crying all the way to the bank with the more than $160 billion they have in cash.
e.g. in Europe the charger must be the same for all as a standard. I can easily see where this have to be for other connections as well.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Try an $80 adapter... just to get HDMI. This new laptop makes no sense. I can't think of anybody I know who doesn't use HDMI with their laptops, even if it is just as a way of piping Netflix to a hotel TV while traveling. And I can't think of anybody who doesn't use a USB port, even if it is just for charging an iPhone. So pretty much 100% of laptop users will have to own this enormously overpriced, clumsy adapter and carry it around with them at all times, just so they could make that computer slightly thinner.
Worse, most users polled would rather Apple make laptops thicker to give us better battery life, because the real-world battery life is a third what Apple claims unless you do nothing more complex than running Word and a web browser. A whole day running Xcode or Photoshop? Yeah, right. Making them even thinner and taking away ports that nearly everybody uses is exactly the opposite of what users are asking for.
Who did they design this for again? Apple managers?
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
hahaha, I did presentations at a conference this past weekend and shared the mini-DisplayPort to VGA adapter I have in my bag with lots of folks with all different hardware.
I'm using a high-spec Taiwanese laptop with Fedora and used this "failed" spec quite effectively.
The 8K display I have on my wishlist is definitely going to use _only_ DisplayPort.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
No of course Apple isn't over priced... sigh : http://www.forbes.com/sites/ti...
Something is only overpriced if no one is willing to pay the price.
I think it would increasingly create problems with EU legislation not to have USB port on telephone (AFAIK, so far they are circumventing this using adaptor, which is risky move with regulators). And USB-C is finally "good enough" for them not to push too hard on this, for banning iPhone in EU altogether would be a nightmare for them.
839*929
GP doesn't let silly things like "facts" get in the way of his spittle-filled rants.
Yeah, DisplayPort is basically everywhere. That's amazing success for a "failed" spec.
No, it heralds the beginning of another cycle of replacing various dongles and endless cables, much like what will happen when USB-C is eventually replaced with a standard that can accommodate 5K or 8K displays, more power, etc., which would generally be anticipated in about 3-4 years.
It wouldn't be that big of a deal to me, except for the fact that I need at least three sets of adapters for home, office, and weekend place, and ideally a fourth set for my travel bag. Between Ethernet, VGA, DVI, HDMI, USB, and SD this seems like a mess for me.
But what really pisses me off is that none of my USB receptacles that I have hard-wired in will work with the power requirements for the USB-C devices.
Everyone knows which one that is without even clicking. The context tends to be relevant pretty often.
...but at least engineers now know what the correct choice for "a universal interface port" on the side of a laptop is, and when someone says "Do you have a phone charger lying around?" there's a best-response.
More importantly, "We need to develop [a] universal" is a cute coincidence of words - we already have exactly that. Granted, it'll never be perfect ubiquity, and we still need adapters even from one USB to another...
They designed this for the people who don't use laptops heavily and are blown away by thin/light.... in other words, most people. Putting a $150-200 Core M CPU in a $1500 laptop is just incredible... this laptop has tablet guts. And the amazing thing is that people will buy them and many that don't will lust for them.
Apple also introduced expensive adaptators for VGA and HDMI ($79). I was shocked by the price, but at the same time they lowered the price of an Apple TV to $69, which makes it the chepeast way to connect a new MacBook to a TV.
Coincidence ?
6 USB ports? - Lets see - mouse, keyboard (sometimes), phone charge cable, external hard drive, memory stick. I guess I don't need 6 but 3 is a minimum. HDMI- ? yes for big screens in meeting rooms. VGA - not as common as HDMI for big screens, but still out there, could do without. eSATA - dont use it.
None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
AMD went full-on for DisplayPort as well. The EyeFinity system uses mini DisplayPorts to give you that many ports on a 2-slot card.
My HP monitor has it and lacks an HDMI input.
Many laptops have a "DP++" connector that is a dual-function DisplayPort + HDMI depending on what you plug into it.
Not a failure in the least...
Apple adopted it completely and nobody else wanted quite literally HDMI without audio
As someone happily driving a 2560x1440 display from my Lenovo's displayport interface, I would disagree. DP has/had much higher resolution than HDMI. Recent variants go higher than 1080p, but are not all that reliably supported.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
It's somewhat more dystopian if you're trapped in the walled garden and coughing up yet again for even more overpriced stuff (read, adapters) just to interface with the rest of the planet's devices. Generation after generation.
But even then, they're obviously able to afford form over function. First world problem indeed.
So you think that a Mac user would never need to charge their laptop, connect to a second screen, and access a flash drive at the same time? I wasn't aware that Mac users just stared at the system instead of actually using it to do something.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
Now, name one person who actually USES those ports instead of the HDMI ports.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
Apple is overpriced & their customers are stupid. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Bernie Madoff got rich too.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
Who the hell has monitors with audio in them?
Well, perhaps everybody who wants to connect their laptop to a TV.
You know, to watch a video in a hotel room or stream video from the internet.
That's what people said just before the .com crash
Next question.
Because Apple makes a lot of money selling proprietary overpriced cables. They are overpriced enough that they can get away with including identification systems that attempt to prevent third-party cables from working.
Lightning was designed from the ground up to be a very sturdy plug supporting an iPad or an iPhone in a dock or with physical use. After checking out the drawings on usb-c it is much better than usb-micro, but it is still based on very thin metalsheet and I do not think Apple would change a superior design that they invented themselves to another that can not handle the spec.
Thunderbolt at (thunderbolt2 now) is of open to use by others using intel hw, but it is more for the pro market, or people that have better demands, it can handle displays bandwidth of 5k @60hz and run external disks as fast as internal, which is impressive. That tech won't disappear on apples pro machines.
I would guess the next iPad Pro would have usb3 bus speed, but I doubting actually that apple would integrate that in iPhones. Is the usb3 hw possible to make as small as the usb2 hw in the phone right now? if yes they will integrate it, but if not it would take time as they won't use space of their thin phones to that... As people using them mostly wirelessly....
Or Apple is not overpriced & you are stupid. I lean more toward the former, but I wouldn't put money down on it not being the latter.
Does USB Type C Herald the End of Apple's Proprietary Connectors?
I'm gonna go out on a very short limb and go with "no" as my answer. Apple always finds a way to do something a little different and I doubt that is likely to change anytime soon.
[Lightning] is functionally identical to USB Type C
What is meant by "functionally identical"?
Lightning is 8-pin and USB Type C is 24-pin, so...
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
My current laptop, an ASUS ZenBook, is dying because it has a damaged power input port - the motherboard is cracked, and it is becoming increasingly unreliable. In the past year, two tablets in my household have died because the micro-USB ports which serve as their power connectors had ceased to work - presumably due to wear. And now Apple are bringing out a new laptop with just one port which is technically similar to a USB connector. How durable is it? How will it stand up to knocks and accidental falls? If that port fails, the machine is dead - and replacement of the port inevitably means soldering the motherboard, which is skilled and consequently expensive work.
The nature of a laptop which is used on the move is that it has a hard life. The Apple MagSafe connector is a brilliant design because it is not susceptible to wear and relatively invulnerable to knocks, trips and falls. I had already made up my mind that my next laptop would be a MacBook, simply because of the MagSafe connector. So I'm aghast at the decision to abandon it. It seems perverse!
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
There you go again. Any excuse to show the world you are scared of the world. Pathetic.
Meanwhile the $99 tablet I picked up at Microcenter has more connectivity (full sized USB, Micro-USB for charging that can take OTG adapters, micro-SD slot, and micro-HDMI). Apple couldn't fit a Micro-HDMI port on this thing? I'd say this laptop is the ultimate example of form over function. "But it looks great on my desk!"
Lightning, while a very good physical design for a connector will likely fall soon as the power benefits of USB-C are too good to pass up
You might be right but it's not immediately clear to me how much this would matter for iPhones and iPads. I haven't gotten my hands on a USB-C yet but I'm not optimistic about it working physically as well as Lightning connectors though I'd be fine with being proven wrong. Lighting is a very nice physical connector but the main reason it exists is because the connectors for USB sucks so badly. Maybe USB-C will fix this but I'm not holding my breath.
For laptops Apple has their Magsafe connector which USB-C does not replace. I'd LOVE a single connector to provide both power and data but I think the jury is still out whether USB-C will be able to do that adequately. Would be nice if it did.
If Apple double downs on Lightning and sticks with it I would be extremely impressed with their level of stubbornness.
Apple isn't traditionally stubborn about changing interfaces so long as there are performance benefits to be had. They were among the first to drop a lot of legacy ports and were among the early adopters of USB, Firewire, Thunderbolt and others. True they've stuck with some proprietary or unusual stuff for surprisingly long (Firewire, SCSI, ADB, etc) but there were usually reasonable performance and/or user-base reasons they stuck with them as long as they did.
Depends on your definition of overpriced. If it's simply "what people are willing to pay," and prices are fixed forever, then you're correct. If it's "what people are willing to pay when they're well informed of their options," then it's a much tougher point to argue (either way).
If you bought a widget for $100 based on your incorrect belief in scarcity, and then you walked next door and found the exact same widget for $0.10, then you could quite correctly conclude that the first one you bought was overpriced. The price didn't change, nor did the market; just your knowledge of it.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
As I understand it presently, there's no ethernet on USB-C. That's really disappointing. I have applications that require the higher dependability of ethernet as opposed to wifi. And the whole USB to Ethernet dongle thing... that tends to not work so well, at least thus far. There's also the additional security of not being OTA, where anyone in range can intercept your packets.
I'm all for as wireless as possible -- charging, etc. -- but I really don't think it's a good idea to remove the hardwired network connection. Particularly in that ethernet is so well supported across the board.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Friend, if you let people get close enough to your hardware to muck with your thunderbolt connector, you didn't have any security anyway.
Restriction of physical access is an absolute first-level requirement for any kind of data / hardware security. Without it, you have nothing. And they have anything they want. There are no exceptions. Absolutely perfect, hardware-based Fingerprint lock? Just open the computer -- with a torch or diamond saw if required -- and walk away with the drives; read and/or decode 'em at your convenience.
Physical access means you have already 100% given up on security; you either trust everyone who has such access 100%, or you must actively restrict them somehow during such access -- guards, monitored cameras, etc.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
"Will Apple phase out these ports in favour of a single, widely-accepted, but novel standard?"
Help me out, what the hell does that mean? If a standard is widely-accepted, how can it be novel?
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
You won't need an $80 adapter just to get HDMI; there will be lots of third party cheap adapters since DisplayPort (and by extension HDMI) over USB-C are a VESA standard. But you will need that adapter if you want both HDMI and charging your laptop at the same time.
Dell, HP,Lenovo, ASUS all are the worst for "special secret" connectors for power. In fact they are WORSE than apple as they change the damn connector from model to model. At least magsave has stayed somewhat the same for large chunks of time.
I really hope the EU adopts USB-C and forces the laptop makers all to use it for the power connection. It's utterly stupid that we have been forced to have random power plugs on laptops.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Every person who is using a monitor with a resolution higher than 1080p? HDMI goes higher, but most computer monitors don't support the newer versions of the HDMI spec.
You mean the $80 adapter that does HDMI, USB A, and USB C "passthrough"?
Because that's all I can find, other than the one that does VGA instead of HDMI.
So it's not "just to get HDMI" -- it's either better, or worse, depending on how one spins it.
Plainly it's not a good laptop for you. And I'm awful goddamn certain that it is definitely not a good laptop for me, because I do plug all manner of random stuff into my computers on a regular basis.
But not everyone does.
Meanwhile, peripherals are sure to get cheaper. This laptop was announced -- what, yesterday? And USB 3.1 passed through the usual standards-body channels only as recently as the end of July?
It's still just USB -- albeit on steroids, and with a different connector. It's electrically-compatible with USB 3.0 and 2.0, and I'd frankly be shocked if actual implementations didn't also work with 1.1 and 1.0.
The market will fill with cheap (first $20, then $12, then $5, [...]) passive adapters that present a USB A connector for plugging in traditional periphery soon enough, and the early adopters will pay Apple $80.
And, yes, we do need a better system than common USB for charging devices: 3.1 is that system, and is said to be capable of delivering 100 Watts.
Do I think it's foolhardy to have a laptop with only one physical external port, especially if charging requires that same port? Yep. But do I give a shit? Nope. I won't buy one, and I frankly don't care if anyone else does or not.
It's not my problem.
(I might buy a laptop with three of them, though, but I also want HDMI -and- DisplayPort -and- Cardbus -and- ExpressCard -and- normal USB A sockets in addition to USB C sockets, -and- ...)
Kid-proof tablet..
For those of us who actually travel a lot, lighter is better. I can run about 3 hours doing blender or gimp or garage band (recording audio books) on my 11" macbook air battery. No it's not 8 hours but who really expects to work that long on battery power? Even on planes you can get power in your seat these days. Does it suck having to carry an adapter? Absolutely. I'm not a fan of getting rid of even more connectors, but lighter is better in my opinion. The real question is whether the adapter just eats all the weight savings of no ports. At least with USB C you can just adapt usb devices with a cable not a real adapter.
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
Could just use a chromecast dongle or and Apple TV for Netflix. I do this all the time when travelling. Don't have to tie up my machine and I can watch something in the background while I work.
My knowledge of computer components these days isn't that high, I typically just buy what is good enough but not too expensive. That being said, how is the Apple not overpriced vs a Lenovo? Lenovo has higher resolution (me want, my laptop has way less than that...), both have same speed processor, same memory, I prefer the 1TB HD to the 500GB SSD but I don't think giving Lenovo the SSD would bring the price up much, I think the Lenovo has a better graphics card. Prices? Lenovo under $1200, Apple almost $2500. Sorry, please to explain? http://store.apple.com/us/buy-... http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/l...
Please find me an 11" laptop (full laptop, not a pad of some kind) for anywhere near the price of an 11" macbook air that has the same specs. When I bought my Apple I was desperately searching for something as an alternative and never found one. The next closest competition was a Sony Viaio something and it was about $800 more expensive. If it had been the same price I would have bought the Sony.
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
mini USB ports became a shambles when all the new devices started breaking the specs to charge higher power devices. I din't follow this closely but it seems there are ways a USB device can can communicate that it would accept higher then default power levels. But in my experience this is totally broken. High power chargers from one manufactuer don't work with others. IN some cases the higher power devices just won't charge. When I plug my iphone into my car it constantly resets as it tries to draw too much power and the car circuit breaker kicks in. My Kindle won't charge at all on most of my wall plugs. My Dlink USB hub which has several high power ports on it will not supply high current on those when it is also plugged into the computer making them useless for charging high power devices (why have a hub you don't plug it into the computer?).
So it's total chaos in the USB world unless your phone or kindle will allow low power charging and the charging device doesn't overload when using such a device.
You also can't combine the high speed I/O functions on the USB with some low speed devices. Video output is non-standard.
The lightning blade style connector is incredibly strong, it's reversible, it's very easy to clean the socket when pocket lint gets in there. And there's so many apple devices out there that use it, there's no reason it needs to be a standard to be widely usable and widely available. There's plenty of authorized clones as well as even more cheapo knockoffs available at any gas station. In some ways being apple-only is an advantage since they can customize the power chips to get just the right power levels to the device by not trying to be everything to everyone.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Me and pretty much all the software devs where I work.
I get paid nothing for pointing out facts. I'm sorry that you get butthurt that someone would *gasp* dare to objective about things.
Here, it's keyboard, (mouse is wireless to internal bluetooth), Powermate, card reader, SDR1, SDR2, microscope, webcam, midi control surface, weather station, train controller.
Plus these more-or-less regular "visitor" devices: DSLR, HD Video camera , USB memory sticks, iPad.
I have 6 USB ports on my early 2008 series mac pro, and it's not enough. So I use a powered hub as well.
I'm not sure how many would be "enough" fast USB ports, given the space limitations of a normal tower case. But it would be way more than six!
Most of my custom control stuff -- lights, security system, salt tank aeration and filtering, antenna rotors, a couple other SDRs, gate locks and opener, sump monitor and AC power monitoring -- are now ethernet, most courtesy of various Raspberry Pi installations. Then there's the commercial stuff: the AV system, the DVR, the game machines, roku and appletv,
Ethernet is better for me, Distance, number of clients, tons of utilities for diagnosis and monitoring, and the speed is decent.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
The Lenovo Yoga appears to be an alternative at a similar price range. Honestly the air does appear to be not unreasonable but personally I don't want laptops too small to fit an HD into, not to mention replace. I came across this when I was curious about the current prices of apple vs alternatives (since my last laptop purchase was 2013): http://www.gizmag.com/macbook-...
Clearly this Macbook is not a good choice for *YOU*. But that does not mean that it is not a good choice for many people. Good enough to be substantial chunk of the market. I don't recall Apple stopping production of Macbook Pro, which is clearly more suitable model for you. Am I missing something or is your rant completely irrelevant?
If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
there's a dongle for anything really. Apple just deprecates things slightly ahead of people realzing they soon won't need that. I recall when apple dropped the modem socket. I figured I needed that for sure and bought a modem dongle but then found I never used it. Ethernet had become easy to find then next time I traveled. When they dropped the ethernet socket, I bought an ethernet dongle. I used it about 10 times in many years. Wifi is just ubiquitous. Even when it's not around tethering to my phone was easier than reaching in the bag for the dongle and then finding a chair near an availble ethernet port. When they dropped the DVD I thought I'd miss it but oddly about the same time I stopped burning DVDs and started using thumb drives and DropBox only. The same was true when apple dropped parallel ports and then Floppies.
So apple will make dongles to bridge the momentary time you need to bridge with legacy devices, then you will find everything new you buy is wireless. It's interesting the headphone jack is still there since bluetooth chips are so cheap, easy to use, and are smaller than the headphone jack itself. I guess the problem for wireless headphones is powering them requires too many batteries.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
I love the phrase you used: "Thanks Jobs!".
I'm going to start using that, probably so much so that I annoy everyone around me...
BlameBillCosby.com
" I can't think of anybody I know who doesn't use HDMI with their laptops"
Perhaps that is because you do not personally know everyone with a laptop?
The Lenovo ThiknPad T540P I use for work doesn't have HDMI, only VGA and mini DisplayPort. At my desk I use a USB3 docking station to add 2 external monitors. My perosnal Macbook Air does not have HDMI, only mini DisplayPort. I use AirPlay to an AppleTV to display on my projector.
If you're buying an Apple screen, then it will have the USB hub in the display and will provide power. If USB-C connectors become mainstream, then I'd hope that other manufacturers will too.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Apple exists by giving consumers what they will buy, not what they want. For example, you will never see a "Mac Pro Mini" which is what consumers want, but Apple will not sell, forcing people to buy the canister or go with a Mini or iMac, and replace it in a year or two.
This MacBook (not a MacBook Air, nor a MacBook Pro) is aimed at a definite market segment, arguably the biggest buyer of Apple's computers... college students.
It appears to be aimed at getting rid of the two MBA offerings, being a 12 inch model. I would guess that in a year or so, the 11 and 13 inch MacBook Air models will get pulled.
For the college student segment, this MacBook will sell. It has enough disk space/RAM/CPU to run what most students will need for classwork (Web browser, office suite, basic gaming, BootCamp, and so on.) It has decent security, especially if FileVault is turned on and the user has a good password (the password is arguably the weakest link.)
Of course, I can see the accessory market for this thing:
1: Bluetooth and Wi-Fi connected hard drives. Apple definitely has a dog in this hunt with their Time Capsule appliance. Other devices will be usable, but it might be good to use Apple's Disk Utility and store data in an encrypted sparse bundle image.
2: Even cheap printers would get BT or Wi-Fi connections.
3: A good port replicator/dock, which can take the entire laptop, and offer basic ports (Thunderbolt, USB 3/2/1, HDMI, VGA, common power plug, FireWire, etc.), but offer a way to lock the device down.
4: This is a head scratcher for me. Laptops are easy money for thieves. Why can't Apple come up with a Kensington slot lock replacement, or just use a Kensington slot lock, even if it is a small metal tab that slides out just enough to allow the mechanism to be attached, but sturdy enough that removal will cause obvious damage.
The only real way I can see right now to physically secure this MacBook is to put it into a locking metal enclosure and use a keyboard/mouse/monitor with it... and not all locking metal enclosures are the same. For example, I can have one fabbed that uses two Abloy PROTEC2 cam locks (one on each side of the drawer. This will resist picking attempts, and if forced open, will be obvious enough that the insurance company will just rubber-stamp the claim as approved.
The Yoga is fairly close and is a decent computer. My daughter has one but it wasn't available when I bought my macbook air.
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
While all this is true, back in the day we heard the same sorts of arguments about Firewire being awesome for disk arrays, daisy chaining and video camcorders, and it never really gained any traction against USB, and instead flickered out. USB will no doubt just create a v4 standard to address shortcomings *just enough* to keep the protests at bay, and then with its wide install base and cheaper cost will no doubt trounce thunderbolt, and Apple will eventually drop it just like firewire.
History always repeats itself when it comes to connectors in the consumer space, because most consumers don't see enough benefit in their use cases to justify the high cost. Most are not running big arrays of disks in their closets. As a result, the cheap, widespread technology wins, not necessarily the most feature rich technology. Thunderbolt's best hope is that it can continue to live on in the enterprise space somewhere and not die completely.
They do, however, eventually listen to the market. Where are the firewire ports on your Apple?
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it.
Yeah, but you're an Abercrombie & Asshole if you then take something people can't afford and use it to shame them.
Looks like someone was looking to win the Hyperbole of the Year Award.
If the worst thing about the future is having to buy adapter cables, sign me up.
The adapter is to the powercable that you use to keep your new artificial heart bomb GPS system charged. If it runs down or fails to report your position and data to the new totalitarian government it explodes.
See, even adapters in dystopian futures can suck.
Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
If your monitor / TV uses the HDCP DRM crap than it adds a few frames latency and so you need the audio to be delayed in the monitor by the same amount, even if it's going to external speakers. This was the main reason for pushing audio into the HDMI spec, though there are some other processing steps (e.g. upscaling using inter-frame information) that can also introduce latency and make being able to delay the audio by a fixed, display-controlled, amount useful.
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That has definitely be one of Apple's recent claims to fame, first to market on popular new styles.
Here's Apple's real problem: the MacBook Air is a better laptop in almost every aspect.
* The MacBook Air is significantly cheaper
* The MacBook Air is significantly more powerful
* The MacBook Air has much better connectivity and usability
* The MacBook Air requires no external adapters besides power, the MacBook will likely be used with a video and/or network adapter as well
* The MacBook has a better display
* The MacBook is 15% lighter and 25% thinner, but they're practically indistinguishable compared to regular laptops, or even the MacBook Pro
Honestly, what they should have done is this:
Make a new MacBook Air using most of the MacBook's features (thinner, USB-C ports for charging/connectivity), make the better display an add-on option (to keep the MBA as the entry-level Mac option), and don't needlessly split your product line.
That's one of the few things Jobs did that I won't argue with - he streamlined the product lineup. When there were multiple computers that fit the same niche, he ditched all but one. The MacBook and MacBook Air now fit the same niche - almost exactly. There is zero reason for them to both exist.
I do like the idea of ditching legacy ports for thinness. I wouldn't need it myself, but I like the idea. But just one USB-C port, period? If it were me, I'd have four USB-C ports, a Mini-DisplayPort or Thunderbolt (or two, even), an audio port, and maybe a Micro-HDMI (since HDMI is way more common than DisplayPort, and you can convert Micro-HDMI to HDMI with a dirt-cheap passive cable). That's more than enough connectivity, but it still uses nothing that would impact your thickness. There's no need to limit it to just one USB port.
"me want" > "I want" or "This is what I want"
"please to explain?" > "please explain"
Never dealt with engineers from India or cavemen? Ok, cavemen is a bit of a stretch but I like "ME WANT!" for the image of a caveman drooling over a new club.
What's the the actual bus speed for Thunderbolt? What I'd like to see is dock etc for laptops that support video cards. How about a dock with a upgradable video chip built-in, while the laptop's internal card is something more power-friendly (similar to how the hybrid Intel+Nvidia/AMD modes work already).
Better yet, have a dock or device that takes a standard slim PCIe video card, so you can put whatever card you want. Once you dock the laptop (or even one of those hybrid netbook/tablets), you're outputting to a nice fast GPU and the connected monitors etc. That gives you a machine that good on the go and can be used for gaming or media at home.
Mouse, keyboard, webcam, disc printer, scanner, game controller adapter, external drive. I had a printer but it died and I never bothered to replace it.
I still have open ports for when I need to do something atypical, such as deal with SD/microSD cards, flash drives, some other peripheral, or my USB humping dog.
I foresee a mess coming because of the number of pins in USB type-C.
One of the big benefits to USB was that it was only 4 wires: power, ground, and a differential pair. Years ago, we all laughed at the Apple dock connector and it's gzillion pins. USB type-C seems like a throwback, with 24-pins, and a microchip. It looks like 18 of those pins require unique wires (since the ground and power pins can be shared). So that means that where I have a 4-wire USB cable now, the replacement is an 18-wire cable. Of course, most things won't need all of the features, so most cables will probably have far fewer wires than that. They'll omit the configuration wire, the sidechannel wire, the'll make the bus power a smaller gauge, eliminate some of the unused differential pairs, etc. If that happens, you will no longer be able to use any old USB cable for anything. You'll need to know what wires each USB cable has to know what devices it works with. So they'll start labeling them with nifty names like "USB type-C Lion" which has 18 gauge bus pins, and "USB type-C Gamma Monkey" which has 18 gauge bus pins and the sidechannel pins. And they will be more expensive.
That sucks. Over the past few years I've tripped over my Macbook's power cord several times with no ill effect. Back to watching where I'm going, I guess...
That is a severely regressive design move.
This computer should have retained magsafe for charging then had one of these USB-C things for, you know, port stuff.
My current MBP would have been knocked from table/chair to floor ten times now if not for magsafe. What the hell were they thinking?
I can only hope the next ultralight MB Pro retains magsafe and a couple of ports.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
Um, no neither. But I have dealt with 4 year olds who haven't yet mastered English grammar.
Yeah, I was just talking to my brother aboutthis. I went through a couple of the original MacBooks back in the day, when it was the low-end, low-price version compared to the Pro. I was kind of annoyed when we were in the market for another laptop a few years ago and realized the MacBook had been discontinued in favor of the Air, and I now had to choose between "paying more for performance" with the Pro or "paying more for miniaturization" with the Air, when I didn't care about either and preferred to just pay less for a low-end model.
Bringing it back now, it's in a very weird spot. The MacBook is more expensive than the Air. It's *thinner and lighter* than the Air. It's also more expensive than the low-end Pro, and equally priced against the mid-range Pro that's got a lot more stuff. Only the high-end Pro is more expensive. You know you've got a branding problem when your Air isn't the lightest and your Pro isn't the most expensive in the line.
My brother's main argument boiled down to "it's gold."
I can only assume given a few iterations of product this will settle back out to something sensible, but it's as confusing as heck. (Just like last night, when the paint store wanted me to choose between ultra and premium, or when McDonald's small drink was a medium and its large was an extra, and they'd correct you if you tried to order the small.)
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
Now they need to sell you an adapter that takes the one port and makes into 2, 3 or 4 ports for $80 or more.
Apple was part of the consortium of companies endorsing the mini-USB "standard". But did they use them in their devices?
The Core M has gotten dreadful reviews and the supposed battery life improvements are just that.. supposed. The new Dell XPS 13 is a far better device and value. But alas, it doesn't have the fanboy logo on it so you will ignore it.
You won't need the $80 adapter to get HDMI. There will be third-party adapters that do that very cheaply, because video on USB-C is simply electrically DisplayPort (it's barely more than a passive cable to do USB-C to DisplayPort, the only active electronics are just to fiddle with the sideband channel a bit), so all the same rules about converting from DisplayPort apply: VESA in fact will be insisting that companies make USB-C to HDMI adapters directly, although you could also use a USB-C to DisplayPort adapter and connect a DisplayPort to HDMI adapter to that. There's a very real possibility that VESA may migrate to using USB-C as the native cable for DisplayPort.
Of course, if you want to connect both an HDMI cable *and* charge the laptop at the same time? Well, you won't necessarily need Apple's adapter to do that, but it's still going to cost a bunch more than a simple video adapter.
I don't use battery often and my storage is mostly on a NAS but if it works good for you, enjoy.
It's a mix. Thunderbolt uses the mini displayport connector, which is an Apple standard that they offered royalty free.
Sounds like you should buy a MacBook Air before they discontinue it, then. Their margins are probably a lot higher on this new and less powerful product.
It's amazing that nobody has managed to make a decent clone if the Air. It's been what, 5-10 years since Apple released the first one.
It's even one of the few ports on the Microsoft Surface. The reason Apple chose it over HDMI was that it doesn't have patent fees, which means it's arguably a more open standard than HDMI.
That guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
The only real way I can see right now to physically secure this MacBook is to put it into a locking metal enclosure and use a keyboard/mouse/monitor with it...
The Apple answer is "It's so light, you secure it in your bag." IF you are installing it in a permanent location, why are you using a MacBook?
Learn to love Alaska
I've been using DVI for higher resolutions than HDMI, since before HDMI was widely available in computers.
Learn to love Alaska
True, and I'm using it for my 2560x1440@60 monitor. But DVI won't do 120Hz or 144Hz (easy to find at that resolution), and it won't do 4K.
There are times when locking it down comes in handy. For example, being at a crowded library, got a useful table, and need to use the restroom. Locking the laptop down to the table means the table will still be available, and someone trying to forcefully yank it off the cable will definitely get noticed.
Of course, there is always using a PacSafe security laptop bag that is cut resistant, but it would be nice if the device itself had this security built in.
DVI was higher sooner than HDMI, but DVI stopped progressing, and HDMI did progress. For a period, DVI was far superior, as long as you didn't need audio.
When computer monitors drove resolution and tech, DVI was king. Now that everything (including laptops and desktop monitors) are based on TV resolutions, HDMI has won.
Learn to love Alaska
Oh, I'm not even in the MacBook Pro's target market, let alone the Air's. My current laptop's power brick weighs more than the Air, and I'm just fine with that so long as it has enough compute power for me.
However, there are plenty of Air competitors now. Pretty much anything classified as an "Ultrabook". Most of them are fairly decent.
Most monitors (laptops or desktop) aren't based on TV resolutions. Valve's hardware survey, for example, shows only ~35% of displays running at 720p, 1080p, or 4k. For example, 1366x768 alone represents around a quarter of displays.
Most computers and most monitors don't support newer versions of HDMI, which means that for refresh rates or resolutions that are higher than what DVI supports DisplayPort is the only option.
Okay - but what USB host controller provides only one port? Every USB 3.1 controller I found provides two ports each, and even if that wasn't the case, an integrated USB hub would be easily usable.
For example, 1366x768 alone represents around a quarter of displays.
And that's likely based on 720p resolution. I didn't say they'd have exactly the same resolution, but would be based on each other. 1366x768 is 720p in 16:10 (with a few extra pixels thrown in to keep the 768 number, so as to not be so obvious that your new monitor is a cheap TV screen with 1/4 the pixels my phone has.
Learn to love Alaska
1366x768 is 16:9, not 16:10, and has nothing to do with 720p... It's WXGA, the widescreen version of XGA, which is 1024x768.
Entirely possible the other port is wired to the camera.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Yeah, since then has ideologically convinced men with weapons ever done anything bad?!
Also clearly it have no effect on the ideas of human rights, women rights, democracy, freedom, education, animal rights, ..
Stuck on stupid. Yay!
Someone asked me why I used "Born free" as a name on twitter when I'm against the immigrants we get here in Sweden.
I'm not against their freedom. But maybe I'd rather have them fight for it/create it on their own and have them come here ruin ours and force me to fight for mine / be killed while doing so.
_I'M_ more free without them.
They may not be but that matter less to me than MY freedom.
My society already had it. I don't want to ruin my society for others. Sure help trying to fix theirs.
Our stupid foreign minister announced Sweden accept (whatever) the state of Palestine. Israel didn't liked that. .. and it's kinda an acceptance of Hamas.
The Arab whatever they are called was happy and she was invited to talk at their meeting as guest of honor. .. but then there has been an argument whatever Kingdom of Sweden should keep or change their weapons trade program with Kingdom of Saudi Arabia or not. .. and human rights has been brought up in that discussion.
KSA become angry and now she's not allowed to come to that meeting at all. .. and they made an announcement how supposedly human rights and everything such was already well taken care of because Saudi Arabia had implemented Sharia laws .. .. and as we all know those are perfect!!
So yeah. Show support / tolerance for a terror group be hailed by the Arabs. .. it had been discussed whatever it would be better to keep the deal and hence have trade and connections with them and try to talk human rights through and because of that rather than end it and not have any influence. But some argued that nothing / not much had happened anyway while it was active before so yeah. Where's the evidence that have any effect?
Try to discuss human rights with them and you're thrown out as the agitator you are!
So dismiss it on grounds of shitty human rights and no democracy would be some sort of message too. Even though they wouldn't care and would just buy from someone else.
Terrible people.
Your pathetic post doesn't change the fact. The Islamic world is way behind the west in freedoms and human rights.
Why does a 480p camera need USB 3.1? The chipset already provides a half-dozen USB 3.0 ports and another ten 2.0 ports.
Was going to say much the same thing. Whoever wrote that needs to get some perspective.
Which is pretty much everybody who uses HDMI. Have you seen how quickly Netflix burns your battery life? And on an ultrathin laptop that tries to squeeze every bit of battery power that it can out of an undersized battery, I'd expect it to be even worse.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
The key words in your post are "for work". Apple has not historically built products that are designed primarily for corporate users. It builds stuff for consumers. And a sizable percentage of consumer laptop users regularly use HDMI. A sizable percentage regularly use SD cards. A sizable percentage regularly use their laptop to charge their cell phone while traveling. As you start to chip away at the highly common tasks that this laptop fails miserably at doing, you're quickly left wondering who will actually buy this, or at least I am. I'd imagine it will be very popular among Apple managers, and maybe in some other corporate environments, but beyond that....
Okay, maybe K-12, but only by cannibalizing the K-12 iPad market.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Go poll real college students and see how many of them use their laptop to charge their cell phones at night to save space in their tiny dorm room. See how many of them sync their phones to their laptops using a cable. Go ahead. I'll wait.
A cell phone manufacturer building a laptop that can't even be connected to their own cell phone without unplugging the laptop from the wall falls solidly on the "There's not enough crack in the world for this design to make sense" end of the scale. I truly can't imagine what they could possibly have been thinking, and I'm even more baffled that nobody along the way spoke up and said, "What in h*** are you thinking?" loudly enough to get this design rethought before it made it all the way to the general public.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Netflix on OS X uses hardware accelerated HTML 5 video, so it's pretty good for battery life. When you combine the fact that you can turn off your laptop's display (or backlight anyhow) while streaming Netflix, you should actually be able to get a bunch longer than the 10 hours the notebook is rated at.
That's not to say that a single USB-C connector isn't dumb. If they just put a second one, you wouldn't need the fancy adapter for that scenario.
I fail to see how USB-C to Lightning cables would be indicative in any way of a dystopia. I quite enjoy the Lightning port, myself. It's compact, reversible, and robust. As long as the cable connects to standard USB, I fail to see the issue. The only issue I see is the rabid anti-Apple zealots who would seek to force Apple away from Lightning.
FC Closer
if it doesn't suit you, DON'T buy one. They currently list 6 laptops, 4 are the same price or cheaper.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
From memory for USB (which isn't as good as it used to be):
Keyboard
Mouse
UPS Monitor
CPU Cooler
Webcam
Hard Drive Docking Station
Game Pad
Head Phones
Printer
iPhone/iPad cable
Bluetooth Dongle
I'm sure there is a couple others in there, but I forget without looking. So 11 USB ports minimum. I've tried eSATA, but I found it flakey. And of course, I use two HDMI, and occasionally the DVI port.
I use Displayport for my 2560x1440 screen at home. None of the HDMI ports on any of my devices will output that.
I also use Displayport for my 1920x1200 screen at work, since it's what's on my work laptop and it's a thin, nice cable without any huge chunks on the ends.
I need a small, light laptop with a good display, primarily for writing and coding with the occasional browsing (though I mostly use an iPad for that). I need excellent portability, high resolution, modest cpu, good battery life and ease of docking and use.
When I am on the move, I want as few openings collecting dust as possible. I want no fan sucking dusty air through the machine. In the past I needed USB for memory sticks, but these days that is rare as I send material over email or dropbox instead, or just check it into git. And I don't want to stick a foreign USB stick into my machine. Lack of USB1/2 is a bonus. I also have no need for external screens when on the move.
If I dock it, I want one connector to the laptop which goes to a hub connecting to all my desktop peripherals and power; I have no desire to click in lots of different connectors, power and other stuff. One cable, or a "click in" dock. Not two cables. Absolutely not three cables (power, display, USB). That's just nuts. Why should I need to plug all that cruft in when one cable could do it all? As to keyboard and mouse, those are bluetooth and need no cables.
The Macbook Air is a different model than what I want. It has unnecessary ports I would not use - and worse, no port which can do everything for docking. It has a needless fan sucking dust through the machine, and a low resolution screen, all in the name of getting more cpu power I have no need for. It's not aimed at the same needs. Merging those lines would leave some users out. And yes, my need is not the typical (although it is a lot more common than people on /. seem to realize). A lot of people still believe they need all those ports, even though they can't recall when they last used them. That is why the Macbook Air still exists, and will for a while longer. And yes, this is where Jobs would have simply killed it and told people to deal with it.
"It builds stuff for consumers."
Tell that to all my coworkers with MacBooks.
"And a sizable percentage of consumer laptop users regularly use HDMI."
My desktop computer doesn't even have HDMI. It has 2 DisplayPort and one DVI. Of the tree monitors I have running at home and tow at work, the only one that even has an HDMI input is the weird knock-off Korean brand. The HPs and Dells have none.
" A sizable percentage regularly use their laptop to charge their cell phone while traveling."
In a situation where you're already using the laptops for for a display you'd would necessarily have an output to plug in a phone charge because you'd need an outlet for the display somewhere.
On the one hand, there is a weakness in my argument in that all I am offering are anecdotes. On the other hand, you are not even offering that much.
So Thunderbolt is turing out to be the Firewire of the new millenium. The first iterations of Firewire were at least a generation or two ahead of USB. Now almost everybody who wants fast plug-and-play data transfer uses USB 3. If nobody uses your advance tech, it soon becomes obsolete since no users means nobody is going to fund its future development.