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Ask Slashdot: Moving To an Offshore-Proof Career?

New submitter sundarvenkata writes: I am sure most slashdotters (including the ones who had the I-am-an-indispensable-snowflake stance in the past) have already foreseen the writing on the wall for the future of tech professions (with IT being the worst hit) given some of the ominous news in the past few years: here, here and here. Of course, there are always the counter-arguments put forth by slashdotters that "knowing the business" or "being the best in what you do" would save one's derriere as if the offshore workers will remain permanently impaired of such skills. But I was wondering if some slashdotters could share some constructive real-life experiences of planning a transition to a relatively offshore-proof career. If you have already managed to accomplish such a career change, what was your journey and what would your advice be to other aspirants?

420 comments

  1. Security clearance by Tontoman · · Score: 4, Informative

    Find a job that requires a super-high security clearance.

    1. Re:Security clearance by ron_ivi · · Score: 0

      Doesn't work that well; since there are enough close-partner-countries that much of that work can go oversees as well. For example, you'll notice the [Navy's new railguns have BAE logos on them](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygHN-vplJZg) so those jobs can be offshored to the UK. Outsourcing internationally is everywhere now.

    2. Re:Security clearance by Entrope · · Score: 3, Informative

      Citation needed on why it doesn't work so well. For one thing, railgun tech probably isn't all that highly classified. For another, offshoring to other members of the Five Eyes isn't going to reduce costs much -- and highly classified stuff generally couldn't be offshored anywhere that is much cheaper than the US. For a third, some highly classified stuff is NOFORN (not releasable to foreign nationals, even if they otherwise have appropriate security clearances and otherwise might have a need to know).

    3. Re:Security clearance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Disagree with the above. While it is true that some things can be offshored, key technologies that fall under ITAR/EAR regulated by the State Department and Department of Commerce respectively require a US person to conduct the work.

      http://www.state.gov/strategic...

      https://www.bis.doc.gov/index....

    4. Re:Security clearance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Incorrect. To hold any US security clearance requires US citizenship. No exceptions. Furthermore, if you look at BAE, Thales and the other multinational companies doing US defense work, they are heavily regulated such that export licenses and classified data controls are very strong.

    5. Re:Security clearance by easyTree · · Score: 1

      For example, you'll notice the [Navy's new railguns have BAE logos on them](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygHN-vplJZg)

      They've got a lot of work to do on miniaturization, compared to the reference design: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    6. Re:Security clearance by Spazmania · · Score: 2

      ANY USG security clearance, not just a high one. Only a U.S. citizen may receive a federal security clearance. No exceptions. If the job requires the employee to hold a U.S. security clearance it can never be worked by a foreign national, including anyone on an H1B VISA.

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    7. Re:Security clearance by alen · · Score: 1

      US Military has been buying weapons from partner countries since the original M1. they still don't outsource jobs that need clearances

    8. Re:Security clearance by OzPeter · · Score: 1

      ANY USG security clearance, not just a high one.

      Note that a clearance doesn't imply a high paying job either. Recently I have seen ads for IT monkeys with a security clearance to go around various locations and perform some sort installation/maintenance/upgrade. The quoted rate was about $18/hr. And that surprised me as I thought a clearance would have garnered more of a premium. But I suppose an IT monkey is an IT monkey no matter who the customer is.

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    9. Re:Security clearance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have janitors in the SCIF at $12/Hr. Not out-souracble, but not high paying either.

    10. Re:Security clearance by occasional_dabbler · · Score: 2

      The US take this very seriously. I designed a system that is part of the F-35. My UK company with it's US partner set up a critical test at a Boeing facility and I was sent over to run it. I arrived on site to be told I didn't have clearance to even watch the tests because I was not a US citizen and it would take six months to get me clearance. Boeing said that if I I was caught I would go to jail and they could be shut down.

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    11. Re:Security clearance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps for IT monkeys. However, the security engineers (level 3 or 4) I hire in the DC area are in the $150-200K range. If you are hired with an active TS you can get a 10% bonus. If you have polygraphs....15-20%.

    12. Re:Security clearance by OzPeter · · Score: 1

      Perhaps for IT monkeys. However, the security engineers (level 3 or 4) I hire in the DC area are in the $150-200K range.

      How does that compare to non-clearance people of the same level? DC is not exactly a cheap place to live, so I expect salaries to be higher there.

      If you have polygraphs....15-20%.

      Sigh, when is the belief in magical things going to end?

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    13. Re:Security clearance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree polygraphs as BS, but if you want to work for certain organizations, you have to take one. I had one and it was a horrible experience. While I passed, I would never do it again.

      When we lose someone in the DC area, it is almost always because of money and definitely cleared people get more. Clearances take time to get and if someone comes in cleared, they can start to work on classified programs from day one, OK almost they have to be read into the program.

    14. Re:Security clearance by TMB · · Score: 1

      How about green card? I know that I can't work directly for the federal government, but I'm curious about other constraints.

    15. Re:Security clearance by belmolis · · Score: 1

      In fact, holding another citizenship in addition to your US citizenship is normally disqualifying. I do wonder what they do with military personnel from friendly countries engaged in liaison activities, some of whom seem to be embedded in ways that give them access to secret information.

    16. Re:Security clearance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Save money, don't buy things just because you can or because you get a loan for it. I make about 8x more now a year and I still live in the same house I bought in 1998 for $150K (paid off about 5 years ago), the most expensive car I have ever bought in my life was $24K (two years ago, also paid off). My other cars are all at least 10 years old, nothing special and I usually pay about $2-3K for them and fix them myself.

      When you lose your high paying IT job, you can basically get a $15-20/hr job somewhere local and easily make ends meet. If you want that huge house and still have 25 years to pay it off and also want the new 5 series beemer and the Range Rover, well... Don't ever lose your high paying job.

    17. Re:Security clearance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sigh, already moderated. You're wrong about the BAE comment. Apparently you missed the class on compartmentalization.

    18. Re:Security clearance by Spazmania · · Score: 1

      No citizenship, no clearance. A green card gets you the right to work in the US in general. A clearance (and the jobs which require it) will have to wait until you're a full citizen.

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    19. Re:Security clearance by Spazmania · · Score: 1

      It does garner a higher premium. Someone was stupid enough to post a cleared job at a rate nobody cleared would accept. I guarantee you they didn't fill it at that rate.

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    20. Re: Security clearance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not the case. There are plenty of examples of foreign nationals with USG clearances all the way up to TS/SCI access eg there are both UK, Australian & other military in command roles in Centcom & Paccom, all the way up to 2 star IIRC.. You can't sit in a senior slot without a very high level of clearance, and it's not just military slots, there are both civilian government employees that get embedded, as well as civilians who are simply consultants or contractors in some form.

      One thing I will say is it's predominantly 5 eyes countries, at least in my experience

    21. Re:Security clearance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No one should worry too much about his job being offshored to a first world nation. Costs of living and wages will be high enough that if offshoring occurs, it would be because the nation to which the work is being offshored has either got more qualified people, better facilities, or something of that nature.

      It's the offshoring to third world nations (whose quality of work is typically abysmal not to mention low standards of living) that's problematic.

    22. Re:Security clearance by Entrope · · Score: 1

      What do friendly countries do when they have US citizens working in facilities or on systems that the friendly countries have classified? There is probably a quite elaborate (social/management) protocol for reciprocating security clearances, supplemental background checks if deemed appropriate, and who knows what else. There would not be much point in distinguishing between "releasable to (country list)" and "not releasable to foreign citizens" without something like that.

    23. Re:Security clearance by Entrope · · Score: 1

      DC has a moderate number of non-cleared (and even mostly unrelated to government) jobs in IT and engineering. They pay much closer to the national average. A while back, a recruiter I talked to seemed very surprised that a software development manager with 10 years of progressively advancing experience and a secret (not TS or poly) clearance could make $140k/year. Salary-survey web sites seem to say IT and engineering fields average $100k-$120k/year, which seems low to me; maybe I haven't looked at all the non-government-related jobs enough.

    24. Re: Security clearance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Typically they don't hold a US clearance, they hold their home countries clearance and are given special access through the partnership.

      From the working perspective they have been granted a XXX clearance, but they don't actually hold the clearance.

    25. Re:Security clearance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are incorrect, and if I told you why I'd have to kill you.

    26. Re:Security clearance by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

      In addition, US federal jobs (like the one I have) come with fairly decent health benefits.

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    27. Re:Security clearance by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

      I do wonder what they do with military personnel from friendly countries engaged in liaison activities, some of whom seem to be embedded in ways that give them access to secret information.

      At the USAF base where I work, we have Canadian pilots flying out jets (with classified equipment on-board) on regular missions "down range", and we train Saudi (and other "friendly" forces) on top of the line military gear all the time, so there must be some kind of waiver.

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    28. Re: Security clearance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like Snowden?

    29. Re:Security clearance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IMHO, in order for the security clearance to provide the implied guarantee of employment, it must exclude some candidates; a basic assumption is that the background check of the security clearance has raised issues that cause the candidate to be excluded - but what happens if the process breaks down, and the background check is not done, but is reported as being done with no adverse findings? When the FBI did background checks in the past, there was a fair degree of confidence that those background checks were in fact done (or at least something was done - those checks often took a few months work); however, how much confidence can you have when that is not the case? Specifically, it appears that recently background checking has been outsourced to private companies - one of which is alleged to not have done background checks on 40% (approx. 665,000) of it's cases over a four and a half years (see The Washington Post article on the Justice Department lawsuit against the private firm United States Investigations Services, dated February 11, 2014).

    30. Re:Security clearance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or get into management... BMW is a good example of a management company that has no real skilled worked any more. They just outsource everything and manage the brand.

      So basically, become the devil.

    31. Re:Security clearance by wallsg · · Score: 1

      It doesn't actually have to require a clearance. It can be considered "dual-use"/"export-controlled" technology like Active Flight Controls. This is not "proof" against offshoring but makes it a lot more difficult and expensive.

  2. best option: plumbing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would suggest plumbing: sophisticated enough that you can charge for $70/hr. There will always be plumbing in the buildings. Job has to be done here, not somewhere remotely in China or India.

    1. Re:best option: plumbing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Coming soon - H1B plumbers

    2. Re:best option: plumbing by witherstaff · · Score: 1

      Any of the trades can pay well although in larger cities plumbers, along with all trades, are tripping over the competition driving the price down. I will also say it can be a very physical job, you won't find many plumbers without back problems.

    3. Re:best option: plumbing by knightghost · · Score: 1

      They tried that with "1m h1b nurses" and it failed miserably. IT gets outsourced because of its extremely low social standing in north america.

    4. Re:best option: plumbing by 4wdloop · · Score: 1

      No, it's outsourced because it can be done remotely and it's high cost. Opposite example is burger flipping - has to be done locally and it's low cost.

      --
      4wdloop
    5. Re:best option: plumbing by Bengie · · Score: 2

      In my very limited experience, outsourcing was expensive, slow, and had a lot lost in miscommunication. We pretty much got a minimal viable product with very brittle code. Since they only focused on getting small sets of features at a time, they didn't ever look at the whole feature set. They effectively had feature creep even without changes to the specs.

      In the end it was cheaper to hire full time programmers locally. Barrier to entry was much lower with outsourcing, but even within a year's time, the costs were much higher, and the quality was sub-par.

    6. Re:best option: plumbing by pscottdv · · Score: 1

      Why is this moderated down? Plumbing is a very well-paid job that cannot be outsourced. I pay my plumber $100 an hour and he's worth every penny.

      A slightly lower paid but cleaner career would be electrician.

      --

      this signature has been removed due to a DMCA takedown notice

    7. Re:best option: plumbing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep, in Canada they're just generally called Temporary Foreign Workers (TFW). What they can't outsource, they bring over "temporarily" and cheap. Same net effect.

      Seems like politician and CEO is the only job that doesn't get outsourced these days. Big surprise there.

    8. Re:best option: plumbing by qpqp · · Score: 1

      That and requirements management is a major PITA. Go ask DHL about Convergys.

    9. Re:best option: plumbing by umghhh · · Score: 1

      I worked in different software houses for quorter of a century and I have seen many people, even young people taken to a hospital from the floor because they could not move due to back pain. I also have seen some just falling unconscious and never coming back too. Back pain is only sometimes caused by heavy lifting. Usually life style choices and lack of fitness and proper technique at lifting is a problem. Wrong bad is also a factor. It is a quite physical job at times but unless leeches make you do more than you can and you do not take care of your body, you are good. As in any other job brains are important. Cohders may be good at coding but that is monkey job anyway - you need much more to stay on top of things. Taking care of fitness of your body and mind is your task - IT or plumbing.
      OC if you work in an uranium ore mine in china or wolfram mine in Andes and your wage is only good for a bit of food then this is different. It has nothing to do with job itself but with pay and work conditions. That is why offshoring actually works in many cases. You offshore jobs to countries with lots of desperate people, not much legal rights for workers, no rules for environmental protection - you save on all these costs. Plumbing is in a sense the same as any other job. Skill and organization of your work is vital. You cannot work for leeches of course as emptyheads will suck all juice out of you and dump you as soon as their last offshoring bonus went up in the nose or out trough the door with a hooker. You need to learn other things, new tools in plumbing there are new materials too. At some point you can become Master and let other 'help' you.
      Claims that plumbing does not work are exaggerated. It does - you just have to do it right. It is the same with being a lawyer. There are many lawyers that do not earn enough too because they went on to do family law in some odd place.

    10. Re:best option: plumbing by gweihir · · Score: 1

      That seems to be the universal experience. One thing I also noticed when reviewing code that got produced in off-shoring is that the coders often did not get all the info needed. Local coders would just meet with the people that know, but having a time-gap and a cultural-gap and usually also a prohibition to communicate other than through official channels kills that way to get the information needed. This makes everything much more expensive and makes projects often fail outright.

      The really pathetic thing is that all this is well-known. The bean-counters responsible are routinely too stupid to count beans. Gartner had a study about a decade or so ago that showed that well-done outsourcing/off-shoring saves about 30% and that most projects end up costing more, sometimes much more.

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    11. Re:best option: plumbing by Cederic · · Score: 1

      This is known.

      What's also known is that the CIO will get a nice bonus for saving several million dollars in the first two years, then leave the company before the TCO kicks in and the subsequent loss of capability and increase in costs really takes effect.

    12. Re:best option: plumbing by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Disloyal CEOs are the plague of our times. Vastly overpaid and not only underperforming, but actually massively harming the enterprise they lead. The right thing to do to these destructive parasites would be to strip them of all wealth and lock them up long-term.

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    13. Re:best option: plumbing by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 1

      I liked my analysis of this in the recent "Peter Principle / PHB" story.

      Aside from all the communications considerations, what you get with the Indian culture is a lot of deference and obedience. Which is precisely what you don't want, because they do exactly what managers tell them to do, and managers are by definition, people who are not competent to do their job.

      It's a GIGO problem...

    14. Re:best option: plumbing by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Here in Canada there are lots of burger flippers that are brought in on our equivalent of H1Bs (foreign worker program).
      They'll work for minimum wage in a city where a really cheap house is $1.3 million, and once they've been abused by being employed at a different location then their visa allows, they can really be abused.
      Sadly a lot of employers are petty tyrants and it is easier to tyrannize people with no other choices.

      --
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    15. Re:best option: plumbing by unixisc · · Score: 1

      They tried that with "1m h1b nurses" and it failed miserably. IT gets outsourced because of its extremely low social standing in north america.

      No, nurses have to be brought here, and that raises the costs of having them. The reason there are such nurses is that a lot of locals would avoid flyover country, usually wanting a job in their home city. Not that there's anything wrong w/ the latter, but end result is that there remains a need for such people in flyover country, but not enough willing to do it. Bottom line - demand exceeds supply, which is why they're there. As a result, the H1B nurses would be high cost as well, since there are not too many of them to begin w/.

      IT, by contrast, as someone else pointed out above - was very high cost, and had a problem of employee retention. That, and the fact that it could be done remotely, contributed to the bulk of it being off-shored. Plumbing, by contrast, has to be done locally, and if there is a shortage of local workers, bringing in migrant workers will be more expensive, not cheap, since demand will still exceed supply. No matter how many H1Bs or even illegals come in. Only way to make plumbing cheaper is if it can be automated.

    16. Re:best option: plumbing by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Not too long. Politicians are busy pandering to illegals and trying to get them a path to citizenship - look at Hilary, Lindsay Gramm, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, et al. But once they get their way, a day will come when illegals will demand the right to have an illegal as a president or CEO or elected rep. It'll be funny at least to see the politicians cook in their own cauldron

  3. Forum a union! by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 0

    Forum a union!

    1. Re:Forum a union! by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      Study chemistry. Chemists really know how to unionize.

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    2. Re:Forum a union! by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      No, wait. Become a Slashdot stand-up comedian, that's something that will never be offshored anywhere, like Europe.

      --
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    3. Re:Forum a union! by inflamed · · Score: 1

      Study chemistry. Chemists really know how to unionize.

      The joke is funny but the truth around the chemistry job market isn't so funny. It's as subject to offshoring as anything else.

    4. Re:Forum a union! by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      From an old dude who actually experienced and understands employment cycles, the safest job market. Where once in, your are fairly safe and as long as you are relatively reliable will keep working. The job that can not be outsourced and it always local. In fact a hugely varied job in many markets, many labour conditions but fairly demanding working hours (not so much total but when you are needed you are needed). The one area of the market most people forget about except of course the experienced older generation because they know and don't often say. "ANYTHING TO DO WITH MAINTENANCE" fixing stuff. Pretty regular work and, insurance companies often pay the best. Lots of contractor type choices, people also tend to prefer older more experienced people. Older people tend to drift to it but nepotism brings in it's own recruits who do pretty well, whilst keeping fairly quite about the lucrative nature of the maintenance industry, in which ever segment of the market it is in.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  4. The entire tech industry can be offshored... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    From what I have observed among my friends and acquaintances, it is that nothing in the tech industry is safe from being offshored in our globalized world.

    The only "safe" jobs I can think of are security jobs that *require* a specific citizenship. Those reside within a nation's government or security companies with a focus on a particular country and its threats.

    Also "offshore-proof" might be MBA, upper-management type of jobs that can't exactly be offshored to some person living in a country with lower costs and standards of living.

    Other than that, being a coder in today's environment is pretty disposable. Experience is no guarantee to job security any more.

    1. Re:The entire tech industry can be offshored... by knightghost · · Score: 1

      Upper management jobs are being offshored now. Sales and marketing aren't - they require knowing the nuances of the local population.

    2. Re:The entire tech industry can be offshored... by OzPeter · · Score: 1

      From what I have observed among my friends and acquaintances, it is that nothing in the tech industry is safe from being offshored in our globalized world.

      Any job that requires a physical presence can't be off-shored. And many tech jobs do require a physical presence.

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    3. Re:The entire tech industry can be offshored... by xmousex · · Score: 1

      yeah great until all of the other jobs are gone and the locals are all poor and unemployed

    4. Re:The entire tech industry can be offshored... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      From what I have observed among my friends and acquaintances, it is that nothing in the tech industry is safe from being offshored in our globalized world.

      Any job that requires a physical presence can't be off-shored. And many tech jobs do require a physical presence.

      One word: Telepresence. Even surgery is being performed remotely nowadays. Now, if you don't mind being hated, you can always become a politician.

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    5. Re:The entire tech industry can be offshored... by OzPeter · · Score: 1

      One word: Telepresence. Even surgery is being performed remotely nowadays.

      While that probably is inevitable, it isn't going to make inroads into the tech field until you can have a remote unit that is as supple, dextrous and reliable as a person at a price point that makes it cheaper than having local guy (plus who services the remote units?) - that would require an Asimov level of technology.

      The surgery works because it is a highly specialized, high cost environment that is extremely regulated and controlled - you currently don't just wheel any old patient into a telepresence surgery. Getting a single machine to change the radiator hose on your car (as an opposite extreme example), and then notice that your timing belt is looking iffy is a whole different ball game.

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    6. Re:The entire tech industry can be offshored... by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      Automating surgery is actually harder. People are made up of squishy things that won't stay still or even have the decency to be the right size, shape, and location as in the textbooks.

      Automating a datacenter is trivial. 19-inch standard racks made to hold boxes in multiples of "U" height. All you need is standard power and data bus points to avoid having to do custom wiring. Robots can easily slot in units or racks. Just back up an automated truck to the loading dock 2 or 3 times a week to deliver automatically-built new units and haul off the dead/obsolete ones to be disposed of.

      It even scales to things like Wal-Mart. Just send the automated fleet in with pallets of merchandise and have robots tug them to the sales banks. All you'd need for employees is the obligatory 6 levels of security guards before and after the self-service checkout. Since Wal-Mart is one of those stores that assumes that the majority of their customers are thieves anyway.

    7. Re:The entire tech industry can be offshored... by ranton · · Score: 1

      Any job that requires a physical presence can't be off-shored. And many tech jobs do require a physical presence.

      Requiring a physical presence may stop a particular job from being off-shored, but it does not stop it from being affected by off-shoring. As the jobs that can be off-shored leave, those former employees start competing for the jobs that cannot be off-shored. So any IT related job that needs to stay local now has many more applicants, thus driving down wages.

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      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    8. Re:The entire tech industry can be offshored... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Since Wal-Mart is one of those stores that assumes that the majority of their customers are thieves anyway.

      That's because, depending on where you're located, many of their customers look kind of sketchy

      --
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    9. Re:The entire tech industry can be offshored... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Upper management jobs are being offshored now. Sales and marketing aren't - they require knowing the nuances of the local population.

      Post it on /. when Congress and the POTUS are outsourced to a cheaper country.

      I don't think I've seen a single outsourced CEO job yet either.

    10. Re:The entire tech industry can be offshored... by OzPeter · · Score: 1

      Automating a datacenter is trivial. 19-inch standard racks made to hold boxes in multiples of "U" height. All you need is standard power and data bus points to avoid having to do custom wiring. Robots can easily slot in units or racks. Just back up an automated truck to the loading dock 2 or 3 times a week to deliver automatically-built new units and haul off the dead/obsolete ones to be disposed of.

      A data center is a bastion of clean, easily accessed, regular layout, and computers are good at handling consistent and repeating patterns.

      On the other hand any manufacturing industry location is the complete opposite - non-regular layout, abundant dirt and grime and all manner of inconstancies built on layer and layer of previous versions. If you wanted your typical manufacturing plant to be able to be serviced by a remote unit, you would have to tear it down and build it back up from scratch. And that is not economically feasible - unless you simply just scrap manufacturing in the US and build shiny those new plants from scratch in the $CheapLocationDeJour (did anyone say Africa????)

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    11. Re:The entire tech industry can be offshored... by ILongForDarkness · · Score: 1

      Yeah usually the boring ones. I'd work on an assembly line before I'd spend my day crawling under desks fishing out ethernet cables.

    12. Re:The entire tech industry can be offshored... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      easily accessed

      Unless you're the guy whose rack is in front of the ceiling suport.

      regular layout

      With a row of cabinets that have heterogeneous machines filling them.

      built on layer and layer of previous versions

      Just like any actual datacenter.

    13. Re:The entire tech industry can be offshored... by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Really?

      Company I work for has most of its business in the US, its corporate HQ in Dublin and the CEO is in London. The previous CEO was in California.

    14. Re:The entire tech industry can be offshored... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Newsflash: anybody in any profession (even the CEO of a company large enough to have a board) can be fired or laid off next week, then they'll have to find another job. Doing that typically is a pain, unless they're a recognized expert in the industry or have done an unusually good job maintaining contacts, either of which would be due to their own foresight and hard work.

      You crybabies on Slashdot need to get used to it. WAAAAAAAHHH, I was born in the USA, worked with computers and electronic gadgets most of my life and have a college education! Sorry, that's not enough. You need to work hard on and off the job, with keeping up with many different aspects of technology and business, while cultivating relationships with people inside and outside your company. Even then, there's a good chance you might get laid off once or twice, then you'll have a job search on your hands.

      You can't turn on cruise control after 5, 10, or 25 years, and expect to be employable for long.

      Stop being whiny bitches! This entire thread is damn sickening. Are Slashdot bitches exempt from the ups and downs of life?

    15. Re:The entire tech industry can be offshored... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Recruiter here, and have hired quite a number of salespeople on H1Bs because they were the only ones who sold services in the verticals in question. Tata (TCS) is one of the few that requires any new employee to be a citizen or a green card holder

    16. Re:The entire tech industry can be offshored... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Sorry, most of us have a life outside work. Within work, we are expected to actively keep working on projects, and do what we can to enable them to get completed on target. So there ain't much scope to keep contact with professionals during work hours (unless one really gives it a low priority), and after hours, most normal people have a life. Be it family, or other hobbies. I value contacts with other people, but regardless of that, your contacts can only help you if there actually is a vacancy in the company that they influence that actually matches your experience. Otherwise, all that time you've been flushing down a sink in the name of 'networking' ain't worth squat!

  5. Work for Yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Be your own boss. Then nobody can fire you.

    1. Re:Work for Yourself by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      (risking a whoosh)

      Except your customers.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    2. Re: Work for Yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You think I'd hire a jirk like me? What do you take me for an idiot!

    3. Re:Work for Yourself by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      Be your own boss. Then nobody can fire you.

      But if you're as bad a salesman as I am, you'll starve trying to get customers.

    4. Re:Work for Yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Be your own boss. Then nobody can fire you.

      But if you're as bad a salesman as I am, you'll starve trying to get customers.

      Reminded me of the Bachman Turner Overdrive song "Taking Care of Business" in which a line says "Look at me I'm self-employed.
      I love to work at nothing all day."

  6. Plumbing! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Learn a trade. You can't offshore something that needs to be hands on. It's either that or join the 1%ers. :-(

    1. Re:Plumbing! by queazocotal · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Until it doesn't need to be hands on anymore.

      For example, TV repairman diddn't go away because it became their jobs were offshored, they went away because TVs crashed in price so that by the time a failure occurred repair was no longer as clearly economic.
      Leadwork - using sheets of lead soldered on roofs to waterproof - has largely gone away due to the introduction of fibreglass and membrane films which do the same job vastly more cheaply.
      Leaded glasswork - piecing together large panes from small bits of glass went away when techniques for making larger glass came around.
      Lath and plaster construction went away when wallboard came in. ...
      While there may always be a need for some services to be provided locally - don't assume that the jobs required for that service will remain constant.

      For someone beginning their career, and going into building, a clear risk is large scale 3d printing eliminating a large number of the people conventionally employed on a building site.

      A large machine that takes a couple of guys a day to set it up on site, and then one babysitter to produce an insulated watertight structure with reinforcement and plumbing/electrical channels already there, eliminating most roofing, bricklaying, cement, ... guys seems entirely likely in the 20 year timescale.

    2. Re:Plumbing! by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      To be pedantic, TV repair shops went away because the technology became so miniaturized that nobody could realistically repair anything anyway and because the cost came down to the point that it was a disposable item. Either one of those would have made it infeasible. They just happened to go hand in hand.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    3. Re:Plumbing! by queazocotal · · Score: 2

      TV repair is quite possible - given the schematics.
      I've worked on reworking mobile phones, with much more dense circuitry.

      It became largely impractical because both of secrecy by the manufacturers making service manuals impossible to obtain, and the much larger issue that the reduction in price, combined with the improvement in available TVs a year or two out meant that the price a repairer could charge became uneconomic.

    4. Re:Plumbing! by ATMAvatar · · Score: 1

      It's already here

      Though, what is done is the building is printed in layers off-site, then the layers are shipped to the location and assembled.

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    5. Re:Plumbing! by Megane · · Score: 1

      There is one thing that can be repaired without too much trouble: the power supply. Electrolytic capacitors, especially from the 200x's have a bad history of blowing out. For $25 in capacitors and an hour of work, you can fix a broken power supply. I've even done it once myself. Of course the cost of LCD TV sets keeps going down, making it only really worth repairing big TVs, as the falling prices just make them that much less worthwhile to repair.

      A TV repair place recently opened up near where I live, but they also do computer repair. These days, with tube sets all but gone, there isn't a lot of difference in the skill sets needed.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    6. Re:Plumbing! by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Yes, you can do surface-mount soldering, but it takes a lot longer than through-hole soldering, which in turn takes a lot longer than replacing socketed components. When repairs take longer, they get more expensive. Expensive repairs + cheap hardware = cheaper to replace.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    7. Re:Plumbing! by tobiah · · Score: 1

      I'm working as a handyman/carpenter now. More work available than I can handle, get to pick my jobs and clients. I'll probably go back to scientific programming some day, but I'll do it on my terms.
      handymantoby.com

      --
      "The ability to delude yourself may be an important survival tool" - Jane Wagner -
    8. Re:Plumbing! by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      Some time many years back, Sony (I think) advertised a TV with "works in a drawer". Basically, the electronics - excepting the actual high-voltage parts - were on phenolic circuit boards maybe something like 4x6 inches (give or take a meter). The idea was that a repairman could slot in a new one as easily as the older sets did with blown tubes.

      I'm suspecting that in most actual cases, however, it was the high-voltage stuff that was most likely to fail once everything went solid-state.

      In any event, higher-quality electronics are now so inexpensive that it's cheaper to wave-solder everything onto one motherboard and not even bother with motherboard replacements. Because even though the motherboard, fully ready-to-go might only cost $5, it's still cheaper to toss the entire set and replace it than to pay $65/hr or so to have someone do the replacing.

    9. Re:Plumbing! by ranton · · Score: 1

      Learn a trade. You can't offshore something that needs to be hands on. It's either that or join the 1%ers. :-(

      The trades cannot be off-shored, but they can be flooded by ex-employees of jobs that were off-shored.

      There simply is not such thing as a safe good paying job. If you want above average income, you need ongoing above average effort in managing your career. For anyone under the age of 40 that usually means many career pivots before retirement. Very few industries will stagnate for 40 years in a row in order to provide someone a clear and easy career path.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    10. Re:Plumbing! by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      A TV repair place recently opened up near where I live, but they also do computer repair. These days, with tube sets all but gone, there isn't a lot of difference in the skill sets needed.

      People still repair computers? By the time it breaks, it's usually better to just buy a new, faster one at 1/4 the price.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    11. Re:Plumbing! by chihowa · · Score: 3, Interesting

      ...the technology became so miniaturized that nobody could realistically repair anything anyway...

      Miniaturization made the components smaller, but it didn't change the way the circuits work. If anything, the huge number of ICs used today have made the manufactured circuits much simpler and easier to understand (which is great because it's nearly impossible to get the schematics anymore).

      There's still an electronics repair shop near my house and the owner absolutely repairs modern electronics. He doesn't just swap boards, either, he still replaces individual components. Electronic components these days are much smaller, but the concept is the same.

      I've done a not insignificant amount of surgery on computers and phones and the like with a fine soldering pencil and a hot air gun. It's not difficult, it's just different. And tiny surface mount components are nice because they're cheaper and you can fit a huge number of components in a small space! You just need a good pair of tweezers and a loupe.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    12. Re:Plumbing! by chihowa · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Replacing surface mount components is considerably faster than replacing through hole components. Replacing a passives takes a few seconds (heat with air, pick up with tweezers, drop new component, remove air) and replacing large multiple pin ICs is orders of magnitude faster (still seconds).

      Repairing new electronics isn't more expensive because the reworking takes longer, it's more expensive because service manuals impossible to obtain, as the person you replied to stated. It also isn't considerably more expensive that it used to be, it's just considerably cheaper to replace a device than it used to be.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    13. Re:Plumbing! by w_dragon · · Score: 1

      So it's basically an extra-crappy pre-fab then?

    14. Re:Plumbing! by Kjella · · Score: 1

      A large machine that takes a couple of guys a day to set it up on site, and then one babysitter to produce an insulated watertight structure with reinforcement and plumbing/electrical channels already there, eliminating most roofing, bricklaying, cement, ... guys seems entirely likely in the 20 year timescale.

      Actually it's more traditional mass production at work, I do have a friend that works in the construction industry and modular housing is the big thing. Like for example bathrooms are fairly expensive with membranes, heat cables, tiles, plumbing and whatnot, the smaller ones just come on a trailer from a low cost country. Just hook up electricity, water and sewage and you're done. In apartment blocks they sometimes do whole apartments this way, for more custom buildings there's wall modules and such. Less and less is actually built on site, at best it's assembled.

      And at least according to my friend though he might be somewhat biased but he's done both, the modular builds have fewer faults. Instead of unique builds depending on the job performance that day the modules have strong consistency and a pretty decent QA system. Even though the deliveries are more standardized the buyers are usually okay with that, just like there's a limited number of car models usually you're fine with getting one that suits your needs. What you need carpenters/plumbers/electricians for is now often aftermarket repairs/changes, not construction.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    15. Re:Plumbing! by umghhh · · Score: 1

      You mean they make most of elements somewhere, ship it to the building site and then assemble - improved efficacy I admit although I would not want to live in first few generations of such houses made in china. My understanding of what you trying to say is that (besides assembling workforce needing a plumber or two as well) in case one pipe in this building starts leaking you just replace the whole building? Because in unlikely case if you want to rather fix the fcking. pipe you will need a plumber or you just live with the shit just leaking to your neighbour - I guess that is an option too. Ach I forgot - you can of course skip all the pipes. Heating can be done with electricity, washing and shedding waste moved outside. Well done. Did not think of it.

    16. Re:Plumbing! by NJRoadfan · · Score: 1

      That company was Motorola. Now look at them.

      That being said, its still possible to repair a modern TV. I fixed a 4 year old plasma TV with a service manual and a multimeter to determine the fault. Actual component repair of the faulty board was outsourced to a refurbishing company (the price over buying the parts kit alone was minimal). Popped the repaired board in and the TV is as good as new.

  7. offshore yourself by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Interesting

    http://developers.slashdot.org...

    http://itknowledgeexchange.tec...

    in short: guy moves to malaysia (he had no ties to the area, just picked it on economic considerations) and doesn't just survive, but does well, on $16k/yr, working 10 hours a week

    John is not independently wealthy. He did not have a big IPO, and does not have have a revenue stream. Nor does he have a best-selling book on, say, how to live cheap. Instead, he was a practicing programmer and IT program manager who moved from Virginia to Malaysia, on the expectation of taking a year long “sabbatical,” and, if he could find a way to make it work, to stay a bit longer.

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:offshore yourself by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      This is likely one of three options, the other two being entrepreneurialism and capitalism. An ideal solution mixes all three and provides diverse sources of income. With countries like Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, and the Philippines you need to be a little vigilant about the possibility of needing to walk away, especially when you don't have dual citizenship.

      Between automation, outsourcing, and government behavior in general, there is no fool-proof solution unless you can buy your own country. You hedge your risks by understanding finance without working in the field, saving money, investing wisely, avoiding debt, and recognizing and taking advantage of opportunities when they arise.

      If you aren't willing to do those things, find a business under 50 people that is well run and work for them.

      (In IT, the key is actually being responsive (and good). I interviewed four consulting companies, and while they were happy to do an initial (and sometimes follow-up) meeting, all four of them failed to actually provide me with a proposal. #5 is next week... I am even willing to convert our servers to Windows to expand the talent pool; it seems hopeless to find anybody good with Linux in Los Angeles.)

    2. Re:offshore yourself by roman_mir · · Score: 0

      Doesn't it go against your trollish collectivist theology? Moving away from a huge government system into a much smaller government system, basically escaping the system that you are so much in favour of - a system of collectivist policies, central planning, destruction of individual freedoms, incoherent unfair income and property taxes and policies, policies of theft, policies of the majority voting to steal from a minority and to redistribute to themselves?

      It's interesting that you should be the one offering a person to leave that system in favour of a much smaller government and not because you wanted to spit some nonsense like 'go to Somalia', that the collectivists love to repeat.

    3. Re:offshore yourself by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

      you're one obsessed moron

      you don't know anything about me but it's important for you to profile me, prejudice me, and act like we have some sort of relationship for you to spout stereotyped partisan ignorance as if i care or have a stake

      you need friends. in real life. badly. you're sanity is leaking

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    4. Re:offshore yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Doesn't it go against your trollish collectivist theology? Moving away from a huge government system into a much smaller government system, basically escaping the system that you are so much in favour of - a system of collectivist policies, central planning, destruction of individual freedoms, incoherent unfair income and property taxes and policies, policies of theft, policies of the majority voting to steal from a minority and to redistribute to themselves?

      It's interesting that you should be the one offering a person to leave that system in favour of a much smaller government and not because you wanted to spit some nonsense like 'go to Somalia', that the collectivists love to repeat.

      Wait. What? Are you suggesting that Malaysia is some sort of socialism-avoiding libertarian minimalist-government paradise?

    5. Re:offshore yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://developers.slashdot.org...

      http://itknowledgeexchange.tec...

      in short: guy moves to malaysia (he had no ties to the area, just picked it on economic considerations) and doesn't just survive, but does well, on $16k/yr, working 10 hours a week

      John is not independently wealthy. He did not have a big IPO, and does not have have a revenue stream. Nor does he have a best-selling book on, say, how to live cheap. Instead, he was a practicing programmer and IT program manager who moved from Virginia to Malaysia, on the expectation of taking a year long “sabbatical,” and, if he could find a way to make it work, to stay a bit longer.

      Or if you can afford to wait it out, 20yrs from now you might do really well in the US on that, after the average wage falls to $.25/hr to compete with those other countries (the CEOs with their offshore accounts will just live in their 'compounds' 24/7, being a 'servant' to the wealthy might be a good local option).

    6. Re:offshore yourself by roman_mir · · Score: 0

      All those words and yet nothing on topic, the topic being your comment, suggesting that a person needs to run away from the huge government system you love and want to increase in size just so that they don't have to be a slave in it.

    7. Re:offshore yourself by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

      the topic is "Ask Slashdot: Moving To an Offshore-Proof Career?"

      not me

      not your partisan ignorance

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    8. Re:offshore yourself by roman_mir · · Score: 0

      Nope, nothing to do with partisan this or partisan that, it has everything to do with your hypocrisy and lack of honesty.

    9. Re:offshore yourself by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

      you are creating a fake conflict based on ignorant prejudices about me and what i think, then injecting the ignorant position into the thread as if i said any of the position you are opposing. then you want me to support the contrarian position you made up in your head, as if it has anything to do with what i actually think or as if any one anywhere would ever want to take you up on the retarded offer

      all you are doing is you are telling us you operate on prejudices rather than honest communication, that you can't tell the difference between the one dimensional strawmen that only reside in your head and actual real people, and that you lack any friends and desperately desire social interaction, because you make it personal and you stalk people based on these shallow partisan stereotypes

      you need real friends, you need to actually talk to people rather than profile and creep on them, and you need to shut the fuck up because you are off the fucking topic. your social hygiene is pathetic and diseased

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    10. Re:offshore yourself by roman_mir · · Score: 0

      Ha ha ha, the troll comes out of the cave. 'Social hygiene is pathetic and diseased', says the troll, whose entire history of posting consists of destroying exactly that, destroy the social hygiene and honest, voluntary participation. I point out that the resulting destruction of the economy and the society of his ideology leads the troll to recommend leaving the society he embraces in order to search for better opportunities.

      They hypocrisy is one aspect here, but the fucking stupidity is even deeper than that. The reason people came to the USA originally was exactly the same reason you are giving an advice on: lack of opportunity due to gigantic government state and absence of individual liberties and freedoms. The stink that reeks from your stupidity is overwhelming. You do not exist without context, the context matter and history of your context puts a wonderful perspective on all of your comments on this (and the other) forums.

      The context being that you are the disease that causes you now to propose that people should move away to keep from the disease that you are. Well, maybe that is the actual correct advice, I am not going to argue on the merits of your advice in this case, I happen to agree with it as well. But that's like Ebola disease suggesting to people to run away from it.

    11. Re:offshore yourself by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

      i saw something about troll and haha and stopped reading

      the topic is "Moving To an Offshore-Proof Career?"

      if you have something to say on that, great

      if you have lame personal attacks on me based on low iq partisan prejudices that have nothing to do with me, then fuck off, troll

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    12. Re:offshore yourself by roman_mir · · Score: 0

      Yeah, people should move away from the paradise that the diseased minds like yours have turned the USA into. You are the disease that people should move away from, of-course the hypocrisy of you, suggesting people run away from you is overwhelming, so is the stink that you raise every time you open your fucking mouth. USA used to be the place people ran away to from the disease like you, now people will have to run away from you somewhere else, your advice is sound, your proposal is hypocritical.

    13. Re:offshore yourself by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

      hi

      i'm just commenting to let you know your comment is completely unread

      good luck on developing a social life

      xoxox

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    14. Re:offshore yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Problem #1: Can you do this legally? It is probably illegal for this guy to be earning an income in Malaysia (just like it is illegal for a Mexican to cross our border and work here).

      Problem #2: It is all A-OK until you get cancer or something like that. No you have no health care... oh wait... I guess that is no different than living here as well.

    15. Re:offshore yourself by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

      healthcare tourism is a thing: people will go to thailand or mexico to get operations or drugs because it is 1/10th - 1/100th of the cost in the USA. often you can fly there, have a lush vacation, and come home, and actually spend less. so i wouldn't worry about healthcare unless you require cutting edge care. in which case make your way to canada or europe to get care as good or better than the usa, and no $500,000 bill

      and yes, judging by his story he's close to singapore, so he may be doing some sort of visa run. it might be legal grey area, but it's not immoral or unethical so you can live with yourself. besides, the topic is american jobs going overseas. if that's acceptable to malaysia and the usa, then what this guy is doing should be fair game too, regardless of actual legal details

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    16. Re:offshore yourself by roman_mir · · Score: 0

      Yeah, obviously, truth hurts and I don't think you can take the amount of pain that you genuinely deserve on this entire subject without having your ass explode out of your mouth.

    17. Re:offshore yourself by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      If you want a higher standard of living you could look at Japan and South Korea too. Much more expensive but they view employees as assets and don't offshore them much. You will need to learn the local language fluently.

      Europe is good too. Ignore all the crap about the Euro being in meltdown, it's fine. Again, language skills help but are less essential than the far East. Actually eastern Europe is very cheap too, might be a nice alternative to Malaysia as those counties are in the EU. The EU brings a lot of rights, far more than you get in the US as an employee.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    18. Re:offshore yourself by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

      absolutely no way to south korea or japan. racist, insular societies. foreigners are put in a legal, social, and psychological bubble and stay there. doesn't matter if you've lived there 20 years and know the language like a native. you're different, you stay different, and you don't get to be treated the same, ever

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    19. Re:offshore yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try again when Malaysia finishes its Government Transformation Programme and rises from 31st to beat the US in 13th place.

    20. Re:offshore yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I was going to mention something similar. I moved to Japan and taught English for 5 years. Because rural Japan is very cheap (much like rural areas anywhere in the world...) I averaged spending about $10K per year. This isn't hard at all if you don't need a car and have the time to cook for yourself. I had subsidized housing so that helped as well too.

      At the moment I'm doing contract IT work remotely from Japan. My 2 bedroom apartment costs about $600 per month (the most expensive apartment we could find in our town). I think that we spend about $800 per month for the apartment, electricity, gas, internet and cell phones. Food is less than $400 per month, including eating out a few times a week at local restaurants. With other sundry costs, we're definitely considerably under $20k for the two of us for a year.

      Like the person in the article you linked, I honestly don't think this is *that* different than living in inexpensive parts of other 1st world countries. We lived in London for 2 years and just barely managed to scrape by spending about £30-40K per year. But if we had lived in some tiny, picturesque village off the beaten path, I'm sure we could have done better on considerably less. Similarly, I grew up in Canada and I know that there are some crazily cheap places to live. The main advantage we have where we live in Japan is that we can choose not to spend any money on heating.

      So my main advice to the OP (if my AC post ever gets moderated into visibility) is to choose to live a simple lifestyle. If you have confidence in your IT skills, the consider trying to find remote work as a contractor. Live in the nicest cheap place you can find in your country. I'm sure you will have lots to choose from. It might take you time to build your skills to work remotely. It might also take time to find the right opportunity. Finally, it might take time and practice to learn how to live well without spending money. However, I think all of these things are easier than changing careers (speaking as someone who did it once).

    21. Re:offshore yourself by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Is this you? We already know this is.

      You give yourself away through habitual projection of your ideology onto others.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    22. Re:offshore yourself by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      you are creating a fake conflict based on ignorant prejudices about me and what i think, then injecting the ignorant position into the thread as if i said any of the position you are opposing. then you want me to support the contrarian position you made up in your head, as if it has anything to do with what i actually think...

      Bingo. Just as I mentioned above.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    23. Re:offshore yourself by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      You probably don't need to wait. There are lots of parts of the US and Europe where the cost of living is much lower than the big tech hubs. I was freelancing for about five years in one of them. One day of consulting per month covered my cost of living, everything else went either on savings or luxuries. A lot of the big companies are very happy to employ people on this basis (Red Hat had several people living near me, for example). They're paid a bit less than a Valley salary, so the company saves a reasonable amount, they work from home (so the company doesn't have to provide an office - if there are a cluster of them then they might rent somewhere, but it's a lot cheaper than in a tech hub), and the employees have a lot more disposable income because the cost of living is so much lower. Everyone wins.

      You're not really avoiding offshoring though, you're just benefitting from the same economic conditions that make it beneficial. The number one problem with offshoring to India for tech companies is employee retention - the good ones don't stay around very long. A lot of companies are very happy to save a bit on office space and salary and have a known-competent employee who will stick around for a while.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  8. installer installer installer by goombah99 · · Score: 1

    to qoute a certain chair thrower " installers installers installers"
    cable installer, solar panel roof installer, wired home installer. installs man.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:installer installer installer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Physical labor like that tends to be real hard on the body. You can get away with it in your 20s and 30s, but after that you're looking at arthritis and early disability. I'd like to reach 60 without needing painkillers just to get out of bed in the morning.

    2. Re:installer installer installer by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Physical labor like that tends to be real hard on the body. You can get away with it in your 20s and 30s, but after that you're looking at arthritis and early disability. I'd like to reach 60 without needing painkillers just to get out of bed in the morning.

      Not really. There are lots of old plumbers showing their cracks around - and if they're more than a one-person shop, they have helpers, including other old farts. Also, there are lots of health problems that can compromise your ability to hold an IT job before you hit 60.

      Look for something with an entrenched union.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    3. Re: installer installer installer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but you don't want to become a plumber when you are already older. You need to start when you're young so by the time you are older, you will be a master and can get the youngins to do the grunt work.

    4. Re:installer installer installer by occasional_dabbler · · Score: 4, Informative

      Rubbish. I've been running since I was 18 but I just got my best ever marathon and half-marathon results at age 49, (2:57 and 1:22) Work has forced a year off this year but I expect to go even quicker next year.

      --
      "Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs," I said. "we have a protractor"
    5. Re: installer installer installer by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      If you're a programmer over 50, you're screwed. And breaking into a new profession isn't going to be that easy.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    6. Re:installer installer installer by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

      A lot of it depends on your lifestyle. 50 years ago, nobody ever heard of "lifestyle diseases", but today they're the top killers. You want to sit around all day at work, sit on the couch and wish for the day when a robot can beer you, take the car to the corner store, etc. - you're going to be falling apart.

      Exercise not only improves your physical health - it also keeps your mental facilities going so that you're never too old to learn.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    7. Re:installer installer installer by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      Tomorrow's installers are children today, riding the trains up through Mexico, then riding an ICE bus into cities like Boston, where they are pampered and cared for, and indoctrinated into loving the government handouts.

      Face it man, the midterm goal is to impoverish the US, and to bring in so many workers, that an American can't find a good paying job in ANY FIELD.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    8. Re:installer installer installer by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      So - you're something of an exception to the rule. But, GP's statement isn't rubbish just because you've run your fastest marathon at age 49.

      Tell me - how is your running going to go, when your knees begin to hurt, and a 100 yard dash leaves you in pain for three days?

      I was a runner too. And, there are no more five minute miles ahead for me. If my life were threatened, I might do a seven minute mile. Maybe. More likely a nine minute mile. And I would pay for it for days - pay dearly.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    9. Re: installer installer installer by west · · Score: 2

      I think this must be a California thing, or perhaps certain sectors. I'm not seeing my early-fifties friends having any trouble landing jobs in their area of expertise. I wouldn't want to be trying to land a job in a start-up, mind you.

      Also, I imagine there's a huge amount of noise in the signal. Often landing a job is just a matter of right time/right place/right skills. Have a run of bad luck, and landing a job can seem almost impossible.

    10. Re:installer installer installer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Take up cycling.

    11. Re:installer installer installer by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      I have - I ride an '82 GL 500. Nice medium powered, comfortable machine. Top speed is only 100 mph, but there aren't a lot of place where you can go that fast anyway.

      Or, did you mean pedaling a bicycle? Yeah, I suppose that I could. If I wanted to invest in building my own roads, I suppose I could. Or, are you unaware of complaints from around the nation regarding the safety of bicycling? Where I live, there are no safe places for bicycles, even if I moved into town.

      Besides which - a runner and a cyclist use many of the same muscles, but they don't use all the same muscles in the same way. I ran from the cradle, and never slowed down until after about age 42 or so. Sure, I rode a bike as a kid, but it never stopped me running. I learned to drive a car, and kept running. Joined the Navy and sailed around a large part of the world, and kept running. It's a way of thinking, it's as natural as breathing. You don't replace that with something else.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    12. Re:installer installer installer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a pretty complex plan for a government that can't even get healthcare right.

    13. Re:installer installer installer by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      It isn't exactly government's plan. It is Corporate America's plan, and the people in government are just the chumps carrying out orders. The backers of NAFTA went to Washington with untold millions of dollars in their pockets. They bought and paid for politicos, they issued orders, and the politicos simply followed those orders. Ditto with Cafta, and now the TPP. Your congress critter and mine aren't really privy to the secret plans, they just sell out to the highest bidders, then do what they are told to do.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    14. Re:installer installer installer by umghhh · · Score: 1

      Not sure if that is true. My body was deteriorating too and I worked in 'IT' - the reason was the ugly bitch standing in the way of all things that can be good for you including forcing common TV sessions so that we enjoy time together which I hated for the brainlessness of TV shows. Bitch is gone, money too but with limited amount of care I went back to reasonable levels of fitness. Stopped drinking too so my doctors tell me I am better than the average 30yo. Most of people doing 'plumbing' that I know are doing things in a very unhealthy way and they eat shit that makes them fat. No wonder that when they are 40, they cannot catch breath for 10mins after fetching a beer from fridge. We are not talking working in a coal mine either. Besides it already works like this. Most of the guys in the corp I work for bread and butter live well but that is probably only half of them only. Most of the families in settlement I live in have income coming not from high eduction jobs. Some do but that is a minority. Most of them do exactly what has been said - do 'plumbing' etc become a master and others work for your or because you are a specialist you do only your special well paid and not so tough on your body thing. Works for most of them it seems. Bottom line is this - if you stay at the bottom of a ladder you are most likely fcked but even there with little brains you can manage. Only you cannot let the leeches do what is common in IT - doing more and more job for the same money while not even being allowed to improve your work environment to make it possible without extending work day. The same as in IT actually. The emptyheads in your software house will lay you off eventually. This is unavoidable. Each company goes trough offshoring phase as it goes trough down sizing - cost cutting phase etc.When it goes better you start using slack to look for a new job. Has a chance to go well as long as your team at home is on your site and you do not fall for becoming loyal to your company and some other bullshit like this. There is no real reason why we are here on this planet - your life purpose is to live with possibly little pain and suffering and enough good time - loyalty to your company is not anywhere there. If going gets tough and you see no escape, being old and sick is not nice especially if it is not your fault to become sick - think if you cannot take some asshole politician or drug dealer at local school to the grave with you without harming bystanders - at least you go with a bang. Other than that 'plumbing' job is as good for your body and mind as your average IT job is.

    15. Re:installer installer installer by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 2

      Bullshit.

      I'm in my 50s and in pretty good physical condition. The recurring back trouble I'd developed in my 40s has almost completely disappeared since I (a) got an adjustable desk and started standing to work at least a couple of hours a day, (b) started making a point of getting out of the house/office at least an hour a day, and (c) going hiking in the woods at least a couple of times a week. Making sure to drink enough water and eating a more balanced diet have also helped a lot.

      As for the mental part: In addition to studying a couple of foreign languages, I also make it a point to learn something new that relates to my work in some way every day.

      BTW, who's "against anti-aging and life extension", exactly?

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    16. Re:installer installer installer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, did you mean pedaling a bicycle?

      In the context of physical fitness? Of course not. He was clearly teeing up a chance for you to brag about how hard you are.

    17. Re:installer installer installer by occasional_dabbler · · Score: 1
      I was responding in particular to the comment

      at 40 it's pretty much over

      because it quite clearly doesn't have to be if you're sensible.

      That said, training for a 3-hour marathon at age 49 took a heck of a lot more out of me than it did at age 30; entropy has its way in the end, you're right about that.

      --
      "Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs," I said. "we have a protractor"
    18. Re: installer installer installer by scottbomb · · Score: 1

      I'm' trying to break into an IT career at age 42. Lots of personal but no employment experience in IT. "Go to college" they said. "It will help you break it." I graduate next year. So, will I be one of those "blank slates" like the ones young enough to be my kid or am I screwed before even applying?

      I'm amazed by how society is tolerating this overt age discrimination. If all of us over 40 were black, this would have been solved years ago.

    19. Re: installer installer installer by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Welcome to the over-40s club. It gets ugly after 40. You get the chest-thumpers here who will say that it's nonsense, but how many of those 50-year-olds (perceived as being past their "best before" date) will be able to hold on until 67?

      In a time of skills commoditization, nobody is a "special snowflake" any more. We're just cogs to be replaced when we become too expensive. That could be because of younger people willing to work for much less to get a foot in the door in their favorite field (game companies are notorious for that), that older workers are less likely to put up with bs, as well as having a life outside of work and sleeping under their desks, and even higher insurance costs.

      Software (and IT in general) is still a very immature field, as witnessed by the huge delays and cost overruns on many major projects.

      Society doesn't tolerate it - but then there's the golden rule - those who have the gold make the rules. Without campaign spending limits to level the playing field, special interests will always win.

      Maybe you can look for something where the IT skills are a "nice to have" in an unrelated field, such as plant management, etc.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    20. Re:installer installer installer by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Look for something with an entrenched union.

      Which after a while will get outsourced to China & India, so that their trade unions can work for both their own workers, and ours

    21. Re:installer installer installer by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      If it was going to happen with a union, it was going to happen anyway - just a matter of time. And it's kind of hard to replace jobs that require a hands-on, on-site presence, either for performing the work, or for rapid on-site decision-making.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  9. Plumber by lophophore · · Score: 2

    People's toilets will forever be stopping up. And it is a hands-on job to un-stop them. The wages are good, often better than IT.

    --
    there are 3 kinds of people:
    * those who can count
    * those who can't
    1. Re:Plumber by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Visa workers can potentially take those jobs also.

    2. Re:Plumber by swamp+boy · · Score: 4, Funny

      Or an electrician, as shocking as that may sound.

    3. Re:Plumber by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Visa workers can potentially take those jobs also.

      But without actual skills, they're not going to get very far. People get very unhappy if their plumbing doesn't work.

      With actual skill, you're going to be in high demand and can charge premium prices.

    4. Re:Plumber by Megane · · Score: 4, Funny

      Also HVAC work, even though you may have been conditioned to think otherwise.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    5. Re:Plumber by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Visa workers would have to be certified first. It's not like IT, where you can buy a degree from an Indian university without having to actually attend classes.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    6. Re:Plumber by swamp+boy · · Score: 2

      Barbers will also always be in demand, but at this point that's just splitting hairs.

    7. Re:Plumber by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      I'm sure if there were enough money in it, they'd find a way to get properly certified. The plumbing equivalent of Tata may emerge. Caca?

    8. Re:Plumber by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hear HVAC techs are a stuffy bunch.

    9. Re:Plumber by Biff+Stu · · Score: 1

      The problem with HVAC: If it doesn't suck, it blows.

    10. Re:Plumber by ILongForDarkness · · Score: 3, Funny

      Male prostitute, your boss won't mind if you lay down on the job.

    11. Re:Plumber by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure if there were enough money in it, they'd find a way to get properly certified.

      Certified is not the same as skilled.

      Just ask anyone who works with someone with an MCSE certification.

      Just sayin'.

    12. Re:Plumber by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      They have plumbing in India etc. also. If you mean incompetent, there are dumbass plumbers in any country.

    13. Re:Plumber by elal1862 · · Score: 1

      I'm all ears for a job in audiology.

    14. Re:Plumber by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could blow up in your face though.

    15. Re:Plumber by tigersha · · Score: 1

      There are only two jobs in the world whew you lie down on your back and play with floppy cables in dark places. One is a prostitute, the other a network admin. Prostitutes at least usually leave happy clients, they get more respect and often better pay too!

      --
      The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
    16. Re:Plumber by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't offshore the trades, but you can be replaced by the incoming illegals.

    17. Re:Plumber by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahahaha

    18. Re:Plumber by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or healthcare. People get sick all the time.
      Or the funeral business. People die and need cremated or buried.
      Or grocery. People need to eat and need local access to food.

  10. Unique combination of skills by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Find, or create, a job that uses a unique combination of skills.

  11. Business analyst and/or data anlyst by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Both jobs require you to work very closely with project stakeholders, which is difficult to do remotely. There's plenty of work around, as well (at least in my neck of the woods).

    The downside is that the money isn't that great.

  12. Business Owner by Crimey+McBiggles · · Score: 2

    It seems like the only way you can truly make yourself unoffshoreable is to acquire your own local customers by running your own business.

    --
    Crimey
    1. Re:Business Owner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It seems like the only way you can truly make yourself unoffshoreable is to acquire your own local customers by running your own business.

      I agree. If you aren't your own boss, then you are vulnerable to offshoring. It doesn't matter how indispensible you actually are, your boss only needs to believe that you are dispensible to make you vulnerable.

      A good example nowadays is teachers. Many universities are getting rid of their teaching faculty, and replacing them with cheap postdocs. This is a stupid move, becuase it severely impacts the quality of university education. But the effects won't be felt immediately, and when they are felt, it is unclear whether the university administration will realize that they're to blame.

    2. Re:Business Owner by OzPeter · · Score: 1

      I agree. If you aren't your own boss, then you are vulnerable to offshoring.

      Even if you are your own boss, if you work in a sector that is susceptible to offshoring,(and you don't offshore yourself), your potential pool of income will be diminishing in a race to the bottom.

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    3. Re:Business Owner by multimediavt · · Score: 1

      It seems like the only way you can truly make yourself unoffshoreable is to acquire your own local customers by running your own business.

      1. Sounds good on paper
      2. Depends on where you (want to) live
      3. Nothing says that the market for your product or services won't change and you're back where you started

    4. Re:Business Owner by EmeraldBot · · Score: 1

      It seems like the only way you can truly make yourself unoffshoreable is to acquire your own local customers by running your own business.

      I agree. If you aren't your own boss, then you are vulnerable to offshoring. It doesn't matter how indispensible you actually are, your boss only needs to believe that you are dispensible to make you vulnerable.

      A good example nowadays is teachers. Many universities are getting rid of their teaching faculty, and replacing them with cheap postdocs. This is a stupid move, becuase it severely impacts the quality of university education. But the effects won't be felt immediately, and when they are felt, it is unclear whether the university administration will realize that they're to blame.

      And if you are your own boss, you risk being fired by your customers when your products/services cost more because you use local workers. Offshoring destroys jobs now matter how you work.

      --
      "Set a man a fire, he'll be warm for the rest of the night. Set a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
    5. Re:Business Owner by criten · · Score: 1

      It seems like the only way you can truly make yourself unoffshoreable is to acquire your own local customers by running your own business.

      I agree. If you aren't your own boss, then you are vulnerable to offshoring.

      And if you are your own boss, you risk being fired by your customers when your products/services cost more because you use local workers. Offshoring destroys jobs now matter how you work.

      Indeed. I've been running my own business for nearly two decades as a consultant for local home users and small businesses. Bigger businesses ALWAYS employ their own IT staff, but there aren't many bigger businesses in my local area.

      10 years ago I was making substantial income - $250k one year! Today the business turnover is pathetic. I used to supply hardware, but gave up that business because there was no point competing with large retailers who obtain much better prices than I do. Decades ago, people paid thousands of dollars for computer systems. Now a thousand bucks can buy them two! There is also a decline in computer users in favor of smartphones, which are even more disposable. A common thing I hear is "should I fix this or just buy a new one?"

      So, I've gotten a job at a supermarket and actually make more money than I was recently in the business. I'm really enjoying that job too because its quite physical and has lots of interaction with other people! I'm also now at university to eventually join the police force (possibly in computer crime). Both are jobs that cannot be offshored.

      To conclude: my advice is, find an employer who won't offshore due to their security requirements (law enforcement, government, banks), or find a different career path.

  13. Flip burgers or pour coffee? by ron_ivi · · Score: 2

    Or will those be robots controlled remotely from India or China too?

    Ah -- if you're in IT -- perhaps a better idea is to be the US guy in an offshore-IT-company.

    More seriously -- be your own boss. Start a company and you choose if/when you offshore your own job.

    1. Re:Flip burgers or pour coffee? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah -- if you're in IT -- perhaps a better idea is to be the US guy in an offshore-IT-company.

      More seriously -- be your own boss. Start a company and you choose if/when you offshore your own job.

      Both suggestions are quite good. At least my colleagues working with me in Europe are not complaining about working here. And they are very useful as "technical part" of sales team or "project managers" when customer is located in the US.
      My own plans for the future - starting my own business which will offer off-shore services from eastern Europe.
      It should get you better quality than India based and still be cheaper than "on site".
      Other route for me (until body allows it) - maritime security - been there , done that , got scars to show.

    2. Re:Flip burgers or pour coffee? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or will those be robots controlled remotely from India or China too?

      How about working for the mail service that ships them back to China for repair?

    3. Re:Flip burgers or pour coffee? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think software development is really going the other direction -- all of my recent side jobs have been helping on-shore off-shore development. Building a team, documenting the software and planning the first few months of development before letting the team take over and helping hire a manager.

  14. Hardware/Software Systems by Intellectual+Elitist · · Score: 2

    If you're a developer, work for companies that build complete hardware/software systems rather than just software. Typically if they design and manufacture in-house, the bulk of the software work requires close collaboration with hardware, FPGA, and systems engineers, and this works best keeping everyone local. Attempts to outsource in these environments usually end in failure, and the companies that try often learn their lesson and don't try again.

    1. Re:Hardware/Software Systems by janoc · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Even better, specialize.

      Generic Javascript/PHP/Java/C# "trained monkey" coders are a dime a dozen and most likely available for less than you are asking for, especially if the work can be done by someone overseas with 1/10th of your living expenses.

      On the other hand, if you are skilled in mathematics, computer graphics (algorithms, not Photoshop!), statistics or artificial intelligence, you are going to be in high demand. These are skills that are a lot harder to find and command a good price. The downside is that you have to spend a lot of time by learning. That doesn't mean you must spend years and top $$$ on a university degree (it does help, though!), but you will need to invest some significant time there.

      Basically, it is pretty much the same story as basic machinists working on lathes being replaced by CNC operators and robots - you need to bring some added value to the business. The low end - the basic programming - is pretty much a commodity today, especially for large companies who can afford to offshore/outsource. You are nobody special because you know Javascript or C# today.

      The other option is to work local - there will be always a market for small businesses/consultants catering to mom & pop businesses that need a website built, accounting or customer management system created, perhaps some reporting beyond what Excel can do. Those are too small fish for the big guys like SAP to go after and too small to be able to afford a team in India/Eastern Europe to manage their systems, not to mention that it would be really impractical. It is a large market - not everyone has to (and can) work for Facebook, Google or Microsoft today.

    2. Re:Hardware/Software Systems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the best post of the entire thread. Insightful +5 if I could. Kudos!

    3. Re:Hardware/Software Systems by sundarvenkata · · Score: 1

      Submitter here. Appreciate your insightful post but as a second generation Indian American myself, I can tell you that there are very high profile jobs that are currently outsourced to India. Recently, when I was in India for a vacation, I came across numerous job postings for HFT and quantitative trading posted by some of the big name US banks in a "print" newspaper. Of course, prospects for such jobs would command a relatively higher salary in India but that salary would be a pittance compared to anything that the US employers will have to incur if they source those employees locally.

    4. Re:Hardware/Software Systems by sundarvenkata · · Score: 1

      But I do acknowledge your point about the local markets.

    5. Re:Hardware/Software Systems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're a developer, work for companies that build complete hardware/software systems rather than just software.

      I would take that advice with a grain of salt. Hardware innovations quickly become commodities, more rapidly than in software. How many big, profitable CPU manufacturers are left? And successful monolithic tech products are quickly partitioned into stacks with industry standard interfaces (sometimes proprietary, e.g. the Win32 API in the '90s) between layers.

    6. Re:Hardware/Software Systems by umghhh · · Score: 1

      Worked few months with some studenst and post grads last 2years - what is this commodity programming skills that you speak of? The advice about local work is good.

    7. Re:Hardware/Software Systems by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Right on.

      Being a native English speaker with excellent language skills and an experienced writer/editor with considerable domain-specific knowledge and experience has worked wonders for me. (Admittedly, I was lucky, and got in more or less on the ground floor with regard to a technology that's turned out to be fairly lucrative for my employer.) I may not be on the fast track for promotion or pay increases, but I do my job at least reliably, and my employer and I both know that it would take at least a year for adequate training of a replacement.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    8. Re:Hardware/Software Systems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These places won't outsource, they'll just replace everyone with H1Bs. The company I'm working for has been working on this for a couple years, and quality has gone way done because of it.

    9. Re:Hardware/Software Systems by jwhitener · · Score: 1

      The other option is to work local - there will be always a market for small businesses/consultants catering to mom & pop businesses that need a website built, accounting or customer management system created, perhaps some reporting beyond what Excel can do. Those are too small fish for the big guys like SAP to go after and too small to be able to afford a team in India/Eastern Europe to manage their systems, not to mention that it would be really impractical. It is a large market - not everyone has to (and can) work for Facebook, Google or Microsoft today.

      'work local' is what happens naturally when you work for any small/medium business, even large businesses who's primary focus is not producing software / doesn't specialize in IT.

      Work for a school system/ college, hospital, agriculture/fruit warehouse, etc.. and you likely won't get outsourced. Businesses that are not devoted to just churning out software, like a hospital, still have things like "in person meetings between IT and staff":) They want you on site to explain, help, be part of the team, etc..

  15. K-12 Teacher by twistedcubic · · Score: 1

    Hardest and thankless job in the U. S. However, you get health care for your entire family, and summers off. Also, if you don't live in a "red" State, likely the teachers are unionized so your salary might be OK, and you might have a pension.

    1. Re:K-12 Teacher by fermion · · Score: 1

      There long term job is a myth that was true for some semi skilled workers many years ago, but right now most of us are going to have many careers in our lifetime. Age discrimination in IT starts at 40. Automation is probably more of a threat to many jobs than offshoring. And if you think you are going to be a teacher for a lifetime, think again. Teachers unions have become so weak that administration is increasing free to make a teachers life so miserable the teacher will choose to quite. That and wages for a college educated, felony free, drug free, social media faux pas free, person is so low that most who expect a good lifestyle can't make it. So the defense to this is to be very good at what you do, but more important very flexible.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    2. Re:K-12 Teacher by Phronesis · · Score: 1

      right now most of us are going to have many careers in our lifetime.

      The idea that people are going to have many careers, and that people are changing jobs more frequently than in the past appears to be an urban myth that is not supported by actual data.

      job stability hasn't changed all that much in the U.S. since the late 1990s ... the typical American worker's tenure with his or her current employer was 3.8 years in 1996, 3.5 years in 2000 and 4.1 years in 2008, the latest available data.

    3. Re:K-12 Teacher by kenwd0elq · · Score: 1

      By 1995, most of the "many jobs in your working lifetime" had already happened. The "one or two employers from age 22 to age 65" was in the 1960-1990 timeframe, where it was, if not universally true, at least more common then than now.

    4. Re:K-12 Teacher by ranton · · Score: 1

      job stability hasn't changed all that much in the U.S. since the late 1990s ... the typical American worker's tenure with his or her current employer was 3.8 years in 1996, 3.5 years in 2000 and 4.1 years in 2008, the latest available data.

      Don't people tend to stay at their job longer during a poor economy? As long as they aren't laid off that is (and the above study looked at employed people).

      I would expect that employees would do far more job hopping from 1992 - 2000 than they would have in 2004 - 2008. The late 90's was one of the best economies in history (if not the best) so job mobility was probably very high.

      I'm more interested in the odds of working at the same employer at least 20 years when starting there in 1965 as compared to 1995. Averages can be very misleading (like when using average salary instead of median salary).

      Also, the above statistics don't seem to mention changing careers, just changing employers. That is a very different thing.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
  16. If you don't get Outsourced, you'll by BECoole · · Score: 1

    be replaced by a cheap immigrant!

    1. Re:If you don't get Outsourced, you'll by janoc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you are able to be replaced by someone who barely knows the language, doesn't know the country, has to live out of a suitcase, well, mate, it is your fault, not theirs.

    2. Re:If you don't get Outsourced, you'll by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      If you are able to be replaced by someone who barely knows the language, doesn't know the country, has to live out of a suitcase, well, mate, it is your fault, not theirs.

      Well, I see one little snowflake hasn't hit the griddle.

      Yet.

    3. Re:If you don't get Outsourced, you'll by sundarvenkata · · Score: 1

      Submitter here. This is precisely the kind of self-unaware elitism that I am talking about. If someone thinks that they are too precious a snowflake to be outsourced, all they need to look up is the number of openings for HFT and quantitative trading jobs that are now opening up in India.

    4. Re:If you don't get Outsourced, you'll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Posting anon.

      There are H1Bs who are good. There are H1Bs who suck. The distribution isn't that different than the local talent pool who went through BS CS with me.

      I don't fear.

      You will not find an outsource/robot proof career. You can however find an outsource/robot proof you -- don't quit learning. Being a problem solver helps, but I can't tell you if you can learn that. I was apparently born that way, according to my parents, so I can't offer suggestions on how to learn to be one.

    5. Re:If you don't get Outsourced, you'll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That is so true. A few years ago, in the public sector, I was hired for a brand new low level manager position that the potential internal candidates didn't even want. I ran with it, and tripled the number of paying clients (departmental money transfer to IT in return for services) and never lost a customer over a six year period. That didn't save me from an ambitious rival who wanted to take over what I'd done once my outfit was clearly a stable, ongoing success. That he himself has faltered and been sidelined 5 years later does me no good, except for a shot of schadenfreud. ANYONE can be bumped off and replaced, by anyone who wants your stash and has achieved the clout to grab it. That's what these big multinational foreign staffing firms do. While you are out there slaying dragons, they are at lunch with the C-suite, whispering where you can't hear them.

    6. Re:If you don't get Outsourced, you'll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Submitter here. This is precisely the kind of self-unaware elitism that I am talking about. If someone thinks that they are too precious a snowflake to be outsourced, all they need to look up is the number of openings for HFT and quantitative trading jobs that are now opening up in India.

      Different poster here. I could easily be outsourced but it would cost just as much to replace me (and I don't come cheap, kid), even with a H1-B; the ones at my level know what they're worth.

      Hell, I've had the extremely dubious pleasure of supervising offshore teams; they're mediocre at best and require specifying what you want in painstaking detail to get any useful output out of them. The people who are afraid of cheap H1-Bs are the people whose quality of work isn't really distinguishable from cheap H1-Bs in the first place. They're scared because they deserve to be.

    7. Re:If you don't get Outsourced, you'll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are able to be replaced by someone who barely knows the language, doesn't know the country, has to live out of a suitcase, well, mate, it is your fault, not theirs.

      Well, I see one little snowflake hasn't hit the griddle. Yet.

      Been laid off twice, had a new dev job both times in less than a week. As the kids say these days, "git gud, scrub."

    8. Re:If you don't get Outsourced, you'll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Submitter here. This is precisely the kind of self-unaware elitism that I am talking about."

      Except you're talking nonsense. The fact is that many western jobs simply aren't replaceable by offshoring, the fact is that most offshoring talent is of a low quality. That isn't arrogance, that isn't "American exceptionalism" or similar (I'm not American anyway FWIW) it's simply fact.

      You see, the problem is this, in the West, we have the leading companies in just about all services industries, we also have leading universities. Offshoring necessarily can't replace the folks who are driving that lead, because of the very fact that they're leading it - if the folks leading it were trivially replaceable by folks overseas, then those overseas companies would instead be leading, but they're not, because they do not have the necessary environment to lead - that environment is a geographical thing. You need proximity to good universities, where corporations and academia can produce cutting edge work. You need the high quality of communications that are only granted by face to face discussions to drive these things.

      So whilst India talks a good talk about how it has 1.2 billion people, and how that means it has more graduates than America has people or whatever, none of that counts for shit when the quality of graduates is incredibly low. Having 1.2 billion people is useless when you only have 7 universities in the global top 500, and your first entrant doesn't roll in until 222:

      http://www.topuniversities.com...

      All the while we have a country like the UK, population only 65 million with 48 universities in the top 500, 19 of which are in the top 100, and 31 are higher ranked than India's best university.

      Whilst it's true that Western universities have a lot of overseas students, they're still ultimately a minority at the end of the day and that ironically in itself brings in a lot of foreign money that helps maintain those university's leads over their competitors back home in places like India.

      No one is arguing that there aren't a lot of jobs that can be offshored, basic development doesn't even need university level education and is trivially replaced by offshoring. But you're extending that job to the idea that all jobs can be offshored and claiming anyone who thinks otherwise is somehow deluded, or has an overly high opinion of themselves. This simply isn't true, it doesn't matter how many graduates India can provide how cheaply, there reaches a point whereby quality necessarily matters for a company to maintain a qualitative edge in the global marketplace, and that quality cannot be built in a place that doesn't have the necessary infrastructure to produce the driving forces behind that quality - i.e. good education, and communities of top of their game individuals meeting face to face to continue to drive their industry forward.

      But the GP's point that you're arguing with is even more simple than this, all he is saying is that if you take a job in your home country in the West, being brought up under a high quality Western education system, knowing the language and culture inside out, and fail to get a job over someone coming from overseas without the advantages you had, then that's entirely your fault for not taking enough advantage of those advantages to be better than that outsider. If they are a better candidate than you despite not having the advantages you did then you can't blame anyone but yourself. He's absolutely right.

      Yes there are lots of jobs that can be outsourced easily, no that doesn't mean all jobs can be which is the extreme you've jumped to. In fact, companies have mostly realised this - you use the number of HFT jobs in India to back your argument, but 15 years ago we were being told that by now, Mumbai would be the largest financial sector in the world. Well guess what? Where did it end up exac

  17. skilled trades: electrician, plumber by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's really hard to offshore electrical wiring, plumbing, structural steel installations. Of course it doesn't lend itself to telecommuting either.

    1. Re:skilled trades: electrician, plumber by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jesus Christ, I'm sensing serious buttenvy from slashdotters towards plumbers. Fourth thread with that in the answer so far...

    2. Re:skilled trades: electrician, plumber by Cederic · · Score: 1

      No, just recognition that getting knee deep in shit can't be done remotely from India.

      That doesn't mean we're jealous of people getting knee deep in shit, and personally I'd prefer to risk my job being outsourced and stick with my comfortable office based role.

      Of course, in the UK the plumbers are all immigrant labour anyway these days - word is it's harder to find a Polish plumber in Poland than it is in England at the moment.

  18. Move away from the coast, find a niche by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If you aren't willing to change jobs, find an industry that can't be outsourced and get good at their needs. Write software for plumbers, do tech support for electricians, etc.

    I found a nice spot working for a consortium of roofers, none of them individually could afford a full time programmer but they had already started a pool for advertising and other common things, so it's working out. Sure, I only make 90k after self employment taxes and the food here is boring, but Amazon, Plated, and being able to buy a house with cash makes up for it.

    And I'm set, at least until somebody invents a roofing robot. Then I'll have to hope rich people like shitty glass art made by former programmers.

  19. To be indispensable by OzPeter · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Either:

    1. Do something someone else can't do
    2. Do something that someone else won't do

    Example of #1: Be the best darn $LanguageDeJour expert. But this requires lots of functioning brain cells

    Example of #2: Work in places that others would turn down. This only requires lots of guts.

    Although in the case of #2 last year I didn't even think twice about not considering a $200k/yr job because it was situated close to a lot of drug cartel violence in Mexico - but the work was available. On the other hand, years ago I made good money on a 6 month engineering project in Siberia and had a great time.

    Currently there is a lot of money to be made in large scale engineering projects the middle east. Or recently there was a lot of money to be made in Fly-in/Fly-out work in Western Australia in the mining industry (it seems to have peaked), and possibly the fracking industry in the US. Both of these required people onsite, but the work and living conditions are sub-optimal compared to cubical land anywhere.

    --
    I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    1. Re:To be indispensable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I will second "Do something that someone else won't do". I am an auditor/certifier, and it is lucrative. Job is 5% exciting and 95% writing tedious reports. To write these reports you have to have a broad knowledge base that you don't get to practice. Most qualified people won't do it, they find writing reports too boring. I don't mind it, as every project is different and there are people to learn from, if you know to ask questions. Plus, everyone expects auditors to ask stupid questions, so you can ask anything and everything and still get a polite and timely answer from knowledgeable people. You never get RTFM, instead the guy who designed the system puts everything aside and educates you until you are satisfied.

    2. Re:To be indispensable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where do I find high paying jobs in remote/shitty/dangerous locations? I'm highly skilled in software development and would like the adventure.

    3. Re:To be indispensable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Be the best darn $LanguageDeJour expert.

      "Language of day"? You mean "LanguageDuJour" => Language of the day.

    4. Re:To be indispensable by Cederic · · Score: 1

      North-west Iraq.

    5. Re:To be indispensable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Example of #1: Be the best darn $LanguageDeJour expert. But this requires lots of functioning brain cells

      You mean, you can't just log onto Slashdot and rant? What else you got?

    6. Re:To be indispensable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where do I find the job listings?

    7. Re:To be indispensable by tigersha · · Score: 1

      You had a great time in Siberia. Wow.
      Hat off you you, sir.

      --
      The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
    8. Re:To be indispensable by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Check out Russian and Mexican job boards, like the GP presumably did

  20. Offshore timothy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dice - you could save $ by offshoring timothy's job....

    1. Re:Offshore timothy by OzPeter · · Score: 1

      Dice - you could save $ by offshoring timothy's job....

      Given the quality of "editing" I thought it had already been done years ago.

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    2. Re:Offshore timothy by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      I've a standing offer of some years to offshore that job to me.

      I've been forced to conclude they don't actually want a real editor.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  21. Planning for poor quality of life? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The question in TFS is another way of asking "How can I spend my whole working life doing the same thing without risk of change?" It's not much of an aspiration.

    Better questions might be:

    • How can I organize my life for the greatest variety?
    • How can I reduce repetitive work to a minimum?
    • What's the best profession for visiting new places?
    • How might I work for myself instead of for others?
    • Can I live a fulfilling life without the work treadmill?

    And there's another several hundred good questions along those lines. How to avoid your employment being outsourced is not one of them. Your life deserves greater ambitions than planned stagnation.

    1. Re:Planning for poor quality of life? by ranton · · Score: 1

      Wish I had mod points, this is the perfect response.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    2. Re:Planning for poor quality of life? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, a life of continuously "improving" yourself on your own dime to help others make more money, being on the edge of losing your house or starving, what wonderful fun!
      Thanks, I'll take a career where I know where I'll be in ten years, and I'll get my fulfillment from these things called hobbies and spare time.

    3. Re:Planning for poor quality of life? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not what I heard. What I heard was "There are risks, I know there are. Do any of you have any helpful ideas to mitigate them?"

    4. Re:Planning for poor quality of life? by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 2

      The question in TFS is another way of asking "How can I spend my whole working life doing the same thing without risk of change?" It's not much of an aspiration.

      Your opinion, of course. There are many people in the world who also find plenty of meaning in life outside work, whether in family, hobbies, traveling, other social activities, etc. There are many people who do not feel defined solely by their profession or job who would mostly prefer a stable work situation so they can enjoy their ACTUAL life.

      In countries other than the U.S., this "life/work balance" is often better appreciated too -- in parts of Europe, for example, a large portion of the popularion just takes off from work during much of July and August, for example. They tend to actually take "vacations." Working 60-hour weeks is also not the norm in as many professions. Working is a means to enable you to actually do what you want to do in the rest of your life.

      And there's another several hundred good questions along those lines. How to avoid your employment being outsourced is not one of them. Your life deserves greater ambitions than planned stagnation.

      Your questions are good ones. But for many people there are higher priorities than having the most interesting or exciting or unrepetitive job possible. I personally have looked for a career where I feel like I can be challenged in my job, but I know many people who do what they do mostly so they can have things OUTSIDE of work. For them, it's stability so they can have what they really want, not "planned stagnation." I don't judge them; nor should you. (You're welcome to your own priorities and opinion, of course, as are they.)

    5. Re:Planning for poor quality of life? by BevanFindlay · · Score: 1

      There are different types of personality, some who welcome change, and some who resist it. Apparently the "keep things the same" (stable) types make up around 80% of the population... which is probably a good thing. Too many of us "let's go change everything, and make it better, and keep altering things, and change it because we can", and your society would break itself (of course, too few, and nothing would change, which would be as bad or worse). Some people don't want variety and don't mind repetition. Although, your last two points (work for others, live a fulfilling life outside of the rat race) are still valid for everyone, I think.

      I think the world does need people happy to stay the same - it gives our society stability. Of course, the reality of modern life is that "staying the same" is becoming less and less of an option for anyone, and not just because of outsourcing.

  22. Pick a field you like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Service industry jobs cannot be offshored. Garbage collectors, police, housekeepers, store stockers/cashiers and other 'must be physically present' jobs cannot be offshored. Chefs, construction workers, beekeepers, doctors, plumbers, longshoremen etc...

    What do you want to do?

    If you are in a job that can be offshored, your best bet is networking. Not as in TCP/IP type networking, but in talking to people. If you know what you are doing and lots of people at other companies know that too, you have a much easier time finding a job. Hiring a qualified person is time consuming and expensive. If lots of people 'know a guy' and that guy is you, they don't have to go through the effort and you have industry job security even if you don't have it in your particular company.

    If you aren't that good? There's always beekeeping...

    1. Re:Pick a field you like by supremebob · · Score: 1

      I'll bet that garbage collection could eventually be done by a self driving truck with an automated garbage can lift.

      A lot of cashier jobs are already getting replaced with self check-out systems as well.

      I'm thinking that politics is a pretty safe field to get into, since those jobs are geofenced by law. I'll bet that Dentistry is a pretty safe field as well.

    2. Re:Pick a field you like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll bet that garbage collection could eventually be done by a self driving truck with an automated garbage can lift.

      A lot of cashier jobs are already getting replaced with self check-out systems as well.

      I'm thinking that politics is a pretty safe field to get into, since those jobs are geofenced by law. I'll bet that Dentistry is a pretty safe field as well.

      True, automation is not offshoring though.

    3. Re:Pick a field you like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'Pick a field' is correct - pick crops from a field with the mexicans

    4. Re:Pick a field you like by Whiteox · · Score: 1

      I had a flash of insight the other day. I thought of being an actor that only plays dead bodies. Job should pay well.

      ACTION!: Lie there
      CUT!: "That was brilliant".

      Profit....

      --
      Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
    5. Re:Pick a field you like by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      I'll bet that garbage collection could eventually be done by a self driving truck with an automated garbage can lift.

      A lot of cashier jobs are already getting replaced with self check-out systems as well.

      I'm thinking that politics is a pretty safe field to get into, since those jobs are geofenced by law. I'll bet that Dentistry is a pretty safe field as well.

      1. In our town, except for the self-driving part, it already has been. And at the rate things are going...

      2. True. But anti-social as I am, that's one place I don't go. Not only will I not use the self-checkout, I'll avoid stores that even have self-checkouts.

      3. Politicians have the ultimate union. Even the anti-union ones.

      4. Actually, I'm not so sure. In fact, it's quite possible that a nimble enough robot might have better luck getting things done than people with relatively fat finders do.

    6. Re:Pick a field you like by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      Automation isn't offshoring, but what's the point in getting an offshore-proof job if it gets automated out from under you?

    7. Re:Pick a field you like by grcumb · · Score: 2

      I had a flash of insight the other day. I thought of being an actor that only plays dead bodies. Job should pay well.

      ACTION!: Lie there CUT!: "That was brilliant".

      Profit....

      TAKE 1

      Director: That was good, but let's get another, just to be sure.

      TAKE 2

      Director: Yeah.... Not bad. I'm just not sure that we're really nailing this. Let's try another angle....

      TAKE 3

      Director: Cut and pri-

      Director of Photography: We could see him breathing.

      Director: Oh fer fuck... alright let's try again. (to actor:) You know we hired you just for this, right?

      TAKE 4

      Director [reviewing tape]: Yeah, I see it. (to actor:) You blinked. You know dead people generally don't blink, right? Right?!?

      TAKE 5

      Special Effects Coordinator: No, look, all I'm saying is it would cost less just to corset him so his ribs can't move than it would to CGI out the breathing. The risk of asphyxiation is minimal, and anyway, the insurance is still less than green-screening him.

      [...]

      TAKE 14

      Director: Yeah, I fucking get it that you're tired and can't breathe. Now why don't you tell that to to those 14 teamsters over there who have been waiting SIX FUCKING HOURS for you to get one fucking scene right? Still tired, hotshot? Good, now get to your fucking first position.

      [...]

      TAKE 34

      Director: Finally! Print that, it's fucking magic! Perfectly lifeless. Look at that part—right there—see that? A fucking fly walks right across his eyeball. Kid, that was fucking amazi- kid? You okay? Oh for fuck sakes. We lost another. Propsmaster! Get this body off my set. And can somebody please tell me why we can't just fucking offshore these parts?

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    8. Re:Pick a field you like by dlingman · · Score: 1

      I'm betting we get a self driving truck, except the entire back is a mini fusion reactor to power the laser cannon it uses to evaporate your trash.

    9. Re:Pick a field you like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I remember hearing a news article on the radio about a year ago about this. A guy who dropped his 9-5 job and took up being an actor portraying only dead people. Corpse on a morgue slab in CSI, body found in a field, etc. Apparently he was able to make a career of it. Can't imagine this would work too well for many people though due to low demand.

    10. Re:Pick a field you like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everything a politician does could be done 100% better by a computer. But there is no political will (pun completely intended) to automate those tasks.

    11. Re:Pick a field you like by Whiteox · · Score: 1

      That's good and pretty realistic. I think I can specialize though as I'm fairly bloated; envisioning scenes where they drag me up from a lake bed. Minimal makeup, no fat suit required and I flop around convincingly as well. I also have a few head scars and a dented plate where my left temple used to be so my left v right profile is different. Only got 3 teeth too.
      Know any good agents?

      --
      Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
    12. Re:Pick a field you like by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Better idea to automate the off-shore jobs so that instead of we losing our jobs, Asians lose theirs

    13. Re:Pick a field you like by BevanFindlay · · Score: 1

      Why use a fusion reactor to power a laser, when the reactor itself would be plenty to cook the... oh, never mind. :-) Also: overkill!

    14. Re:Pick a field you like by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      If you are in a job that can be offshored, your best bet is networking. Not as in TCP/IP type networking, but in talking to people.

      That's a cruel thing to post on slashdot.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    15. Re:Pick a field you like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some physician specialties are already off-shored: radiology and pathology. Other physician tasks are shifted to lower-trained, lower-paid professionals (e.g., physician assistants, nurse practitioners, nurse anesthetists, etc.)

  23. physical presence by AK+Marc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Get a job that requires you physically be there. You can't outsource the fry guy to India. Then the question comes back to whether your job can be replaced by a robot or computer.

    You can't find a "safe" job anymore. The best you can do is find a stable company and convince them you are indispensable.

    If labour costs and skills were the same everywhere, then there'd be no risk of offshoring. So the quickest way to eliminate offshoring is to open the borders, both ways, for everyone. But the conservatives assert it'll have the whole world living like the worst of Africa or wherever, so we try hard to make sure we lose our jobs in a nice country, rather than raise the standard for the whole world.

    1. Re:physical presence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can have the welfare/entitlements or open borders, pick one.

    2. Re:physical presence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The quickest way to eliminate offshoring is to make the cost of labor the same everywhere, but opening the borders is not the fastest way to do that. It will lower the local cost of labor, while very little of the money will leave the country. This will lead to increased economic inequality nationally, and very little change internationally. The quickest way to make labor cost the same everywhere is to close the borders and encourage as much offshoring as possible, to maximize the flow of money from rich nations to poorer ones.

    3. Re:physical presence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get a job that requires you physically be there. You can't outsource the fry guy to India. Then the question comes back to whether your job can be replaced by a robot or computer.

      You can't find a "safe" job anymore. The best you can do is find a stable company and convince them you are indispensable.

      If labour costs and skills were the same everywhere, then there'd be no risk of offshoring. So the quickest way to eliminate offshoring is to open the borders, both ways, for everyone. But the conservatives assert it'll have the whole world living like the worst of Africa or wherever, so we try hard to make sure we lose our jobs in a nice country, rather than raise the standard for the whole world.

      Just start your own business. Be a leader. Seriously, it's not that hard and you are protected financially by corporate laws in America. Don't live life with the idea that you're owed a nice living at some organization. Computer skills are blue collar equivalent skills and you should not expect more than a blue collar life style if you just want to code all day.

    4. Re:physical presence by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      You mean corporate welfare will finally end if we open up the borders? Then we should have done it 10 years ago.

    5. Re:physical presence by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Get a job that requires you physically be there. You can't outsource the fry guy to India. Then the question comes back to whether your job can be replaced by a robot or computer.

      Or, be the guy everyone wants. I know a pile of the /. crowd hate dealing with other people and would rather just talk to the computer, but that's basically the gist of the whole offshoring thing - if you're someone people don't see or interact with directly, it doesn't matter if you're here, or India.

      So be the guy people talk to - especially customers. If you're dealing with customers, and you establish a rapport with them, quite likely they will try to follow you. This is especially if you're dealing with trust - if customers trust that you can deliver the goods, and are basically honest, they will seek you out.

      We ran into this issue with a customer - the customer wanted to do a side project, and we were unable to do so (lacking the required skills, or so we thought), so they were going to contract it out. But they're uncomfortable - being the product in question is part of their "secret sauce" and they really don't want to risk it getting out there.

      We're presenting ourselves as people they've already worked with, and as such, they already trust (me in particular who actually worked with them). If they trust me, they can trust my decisions, so if I bring in someone else from the company, they would be satisfied if I'm happy with them to extend that trust.

      No, I do not work in sales or marketing, I'm just an engineer who doesn't hide in a dark corner of the office. I put myself front and center with the customer. Yes, it also means it's a PITA because I don't get to often touch the stuff as much as I'd like thanks to meetings and documentation and other project work, but it's hard to offshore the person the customer trusts to handle their work. Bring them a new face without my approval and they're rightly worried. And yes, if I'm attempted to be offshored, I will give them the training, but not the trust, probably because most likely, I don't trust them myself.

      You put the face to the customer. If you're some anonymous engineer in the back no one sees, well, it doesn't matter if it's here or elsewhere, no one can tell the difference. But if you're a visible presence, and customers know you, it's a lot harder to have your work passed to someone else. Customers know when you don't trust the new guy, and customers hate it when someone they know and deal with productively gets swapped out for an unknown. Especially risky near the end of a contract since they may not have the rapport to renew and just cancel the whole thing.

    6. Re:physical presence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't find a "safe" job anymore.

      Safe jobs haven't existed since landlords were lords of lands, and the average peasant had to beg for the permission to travel five miles down the road.

    7. Re:physical presence by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Thanks. You've no idea how much I enjoyed that. Alas, I've already posted in this discussion or I'd mod you up.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    8. Re:physical presence by unixisc · · Score: 1

      If labour costs and skills were the same everywhere, then there'd be no risk of offshoring. So the quickest way to eliminate offshoring is to open the borders, both ways, for everyone. But the conservatives assert it'll have the whole world living like the worst of Africa or wherever, so we try hard to make sure we lose our jobs in a nice country, rather than raise the standard for the whole world.

      Which conservatives? The 'Fiscal' ones are the ones bought by Corporate America, and are for open borders, even letting in immigrants from Muslim countries - like the Tsarnaevs, the Taheriazars, the Hassan Akbars, et al, since a good deal of their funding comes from the Sheikhs in Dubai, Bahrein, Dhahran and Doha. The 'America first' conservatives are the ones for putting a lid on immigration, and have no answers about what would happen when either the jobs are offshored (if it is a J2EE programmer which can be offshored to Bangalore) or when one pays $10 for a head of lettuce. The first group is winning, not only due to the money backing, but also due to the fact that the GOP, having lost the Black & Jewish vote, wants to avoid the same thing happening w/ the Hispanic & Muzzie vote. Which also explains why so many Republicans, like Chris Christie, Daryl Issa, Rick Snyder et al are happy to cuddle up to Hamas, while endorsing a Pali state

  24. People Skills by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My experience has been that people with strong people and technical skills are very difficult to replace with someone working in another country. It doesn't mean it is impossible, but it is very hard. If you want to find a job that cannot be outsourced, it probably means working with physical things that require hands on manipulation. On the other hand, if you consider why particular jobs are easy to outsource, you may find skills that you can develop in addition to technical skills that would make you very hard to replace with someone on the other side of the world.

    1. Re:People Skills by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      My experience has been that people with strong people and technical skills are very difficult to replace with someone working in another country. It doesn't mean it is impossible, but it is very hard. If you want to find a job that cannot be outsourced, it probably means working with physical things that require hands on manipulation. On the other hand, if you consider why particular jobs are easy to outsource, you may find skills that you can develop in addition to technical skills that would make you very hard to replace with someone on the other side of the world.

      If you have strong people skills, you'll be one of the last ones standing, But strong technical skills? One reason what there's so much total crap software is that the people who hire software people could care less about technical skills if they can save money.

      Sure, they DEMAND heavy skillsets, but when it comes to hiring decisions...

  25. C-Level management by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    That's basically the only chance you have to be neither outsourced nor replaced by H1Bs. I mean, who'd shoot himself in the foot?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  26. Be the boss by X10 · · Score: 1

    I started my own company. Now I'm the boss, I'm the one who decides if I get fired. So far, that hasn't happened.

    --
    no, I don't have a sig
    1. Re:Be the boss by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      No, you just gave your self several of the the worst bosses of all. They are often called customers.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    2. Re:Be the boss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Give it time.

    3. Re:Be the boss by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I started my own company. Now I'm the boss, I'm the one who decides if I get fired. So far, that hasn't happened.

      But imagine the shock if it did.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  27. Barber or Masseuse by justthinkit · · Score: 1

    Barber or Masseuse. Something that requires your customer's physical presence.

    --
    I come here for the love
    1. Re:Barber or Masseuse by Krishnoid · · Score: 3, Funny

      Or start your own theme park. With blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the park! Ahhh, screw the whole thing.

    2. Re:Barber or Masseuse by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Construction and burger flipping also come to mind.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    3. Re:Barber or Masseuse by AchilleTalon · · Score: 1

      Janitor is great on this basis.

      --
      Achille Talon
      Hop!
    4. Re:Barber or Masseuse by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Barber or Masseuse. Something that requires your customer's physical presence.

      While it's still legal to sell sex in Kanuckistan, they've made it illegal to buy it (though the police aren't enforcing the law because it would undo all the work that the police have done to reach out to sex workers to cut down on abuse and murder).

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    5. Re:Barber or Masseuse by Whiteox · · Score: 1

      A highly esteemed Professor of Chemistry from the University of Budapest wound up as a high school lab assistant at my school. None of his qualifications were recognized after he emigrated to Australia. Brilliant mind, too old to retrain. The school allowed him to teach a few classes in top level chemistry and physics.
      Your janitor references Big Bang Theory btw.

      --
      Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
    6. Re:Barber or Masseuse by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      I went to burger joints in the 70's where people shoved raw patties in one side of a machine and they came cooked out the other. These days we could easily even automate the process of pulling them from pallets and wrapping buns around them. Don't be surprised if in the not-too-distant future that the only employee in most burger joints is the manager. And even that only to pull the alarm if the machine goes down.

      Certainly, given what we've got, if we even bother with humans taking orders, they'll probably be working out of a call center in Pune or Kolkata.

      Automated construction has been an ongoing thing for decades. A lot of houses are extensively pre-fab even without robots to handle the final assembly and fill-in work.

    7. Re:Barber or Masseuse by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      You know what burger flippers are paid. And, forget construction. I worked construction for most of my life. After NAFTA, the illegals flooded in. A white guy can't buy a job on most construction sites today. A black guy isn't going to have much better luck. Everyone is brown, except the few guys in the office who come to work wearing shiny shoes, name brand polo shirts, and blue jeans with gay names emblazoned across the back pockets.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    8. Re:Barber or Masseuse by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      True, but the question wasn't what sort of career you could choose that can't be replaced by robots. It was what sort of career you could choose that couldn't readily be replaced by a human on the other side of the planet. :-) As for call centers and order taking, I think that's already being done for drive-through lanes in some places.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    9. Re:Barber or Masseuse by umghhh · · Score: 1

      You mean Sweden or France? Just wondering. It is of course OT but interesting anyway - delegalizing prostitution in any way is just a scam like war on drugs is - it is self propelling process in which all wrongs, that are done while executing it, are blamed on others so that more power is given to the executor.

    10. Re:Barber or Masseuse by Captain+Hook · · Score: 1

      True, but the question wasn't what sort of career you could choose that can't be replaced by robots. It was what sort of career you could choose that couldn't readily be replaced by a human on the other side of the planet

      But what's the point of jumping to a new career to avoid potential threats to your current career if you don't consider the potential threats to the career you are jumping to

      Outsourcing is a real threat to knowledge based jobs and automation is a real threat to low skilled (although the bar for skills safe from automation is constantly rising) jobs which need to be done locally. The sort of job you might switch to to avoid Outsourcing will eventually be threatened by automation.

      --
      These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
    11. Re:Barber or Masseuse by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 1

      Or the inverse, where the manager is a computer and the workers are all just "robot arms" for it.. already happening in fulfilment warehouses.

    12. Re: Barber or Masseuse by cormandy · · Score: 1

      Kanuvkistan = Canada.

    13. Re:Barber or Masseuse by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      the question wasn't what sort of career you could choose that can't be replaced by robots.

      I was thinking that as the underclass grows larger and more restive there'd be opportunities involving batons. Protip: you want to be at the handle end.

      Second thoughts, robots can probably do that cheaper too.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    14. Re:Barber or Masseuse by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      With all the aboriginal women who have been murdered, and the Robert Pickton serial killer case, people now see that it doesn't matter if the women were in the sex trade - they have as much right to a safe life as anyone else.

      This attitude change came about after broadcasters were confronted with the discriminatory way they were handling non-aboriginal and aboriginal cases - aboriginal cases were much less likely to include interviews with friends and family, or even a picture. The same was true about women working in the sex trade. They were somehow less deserving of investigation into their deaths or disappearances.

      Now the media goes out of its way to "re-humanize" the victims, and Canadians just aren't buying the "she had it coming because she was a prostitute" or "what do you expect from aboriginals" prejudicial mentality any more. We expect more from ourselves, the police, and the government in terms of equal protection for all.

      Part of the problem is that, rather than working towards harm reduction, the Harper government has done its best to ignore calls from the police, opposition, groups such as amnesty international, the victims families, and ordinary citizens to hold an inquiry into missing and murdered aboriginal women. "That's not going to happen." And it's strictly politics, since his conservative base likes the "tougher on crime" stance better than the "lets try to fix the underlying problems and in the meantime give equal protection to all" harm reduction model.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    15. Re:Barber or Masseuse by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      But what's the point of jumping to a new career to avoid potential threats to your current career if you don't consider the potential threats to the career you are jumping to

      There is no point. There's also no point in seriously considering going from a tech career to burger flipping just because the latter job is currently less likely to be outsourced. Consider a career change only if you can't come up with any other alternative. Otherwise, if you lose your job, find another job, not another line of work, and save money for the future so that if you lose your job, you won't lose your shirt. That's the only good advice. Choosing a career based on whether it potentially could be outsourced is silly. Therefore, any possible answer to the question is likely to be equally silly.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    16. Re:Barber or Masseuse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Easier said than done. Until 2008, I worked in the semiconductor sector, until I lost my job. Since that was the year of a crash, it was hard to find an employer in a competitor company that didn't have a glut of applicants, and therefore passed me over. Since then, more out of necessity than out of desire, I've switched to HR. Do I like it? Absolutely not - it's not what I trained for, and had that been my goal, I could have achieved it much earlier than I did, and by now been top in this field. As for saving money, tried doing that in the Bay Area, where the rent alone threatens to eat up every first paycheck?

      I get the OP's question, but for most of us, when we are desperate, we fuss over jobs a bit less and take whatever we can find, unless they happen to not cover our bills, or tend to be so unstable that we're likely to end up in the same predicament again. However, if I was working and looking for a career change, I'd definitely look at the potential threats to that source of employment before considering it - particularly if it is a career shift as opposed to a mere job shift.

  28. Move to India by Ikester8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Might as well go where the jobs are.

    --
    That's the last time I run code posted in somebody's sig...
    1. Re:Move to India by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    2. Re:Move to India by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also air pollution. I was there recently and it was bad. (And it's getting worse)

      http://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/bengaluru/City-Gasps-for-Breath-as-Air-Quality-Worsens/2014/09/11/article2425463.ece
      http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/bangalore/1/article6347493.ece

    3. Re:Move to India by unixisc · · Score: 1

      The positive in this is that you'll die quickly, and then not have to worry about where your next job will come from

    4. Re:Move to India by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Pick up Hindi or Tamil, while you're at it. People in almost all the Indian states understand Hindi, while in Chennai, people understand only Tamil. So pick up one of these, and make it your second language. They'll not talk behind your backs if they know that you know what they're saying about you

  29. Hands-on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Work that requires hands-on access can't be offshored. If you work with just a keyboard and monitor, you're screwed.

    But even hands-on work can be "dumbed-down" by using an offshored expert (via telepresence) with a cheaper local technician.

    My approach (chosen because it is immense fun, not because it is relatively offshore-proof) has been to specialize in developing software for embedded/real-time systems, mainly instrumentation and controls, and more recently "IoT". While embedded software is my "job" (either on bare-metal, with an RTOS, or with Linux). I have had to get involved in all levels of system specification, design, implementation and, most importantly, troubleshooting/debug across multiple disciplines (software, electronics, electromechanical, mechanical, physics).

    The alternative is to offshore the entire project, something that is happening more often when there are no IP issues involved. But when trade secrets are present, or patents are being filed, or when the development window is tight, offshoring often adds delays that can cripple the time to market. That's where "on-shoring" often works best: Hire local gunslingers (contractors) to speed the process.

    I've also done the local hands-on self-employed contracting thing, and managing it is a PITA (quarterly taxes, health coverage, SEP IRA, etc.). Fortunately, there are more companies that handle all this for you, either by hiring you as a consultant, or just being your "benefits administrator". But marketing is still a PITA.

    Otherwise, you're left with the hands-on trade or service industry: Retail sales, carpenter, carpet cleaner, massage therapist, and the like. At the top of the list income-wise would probably be Plumber and Nurse.

    1. Re:Hands-on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Work that requires hands-on access can't be offshored. If you work with just a keyboard and monitor, you're screwed.

      This is true only to the extent that management is willing to have a bunch of incompetent assmonkeys with language barriers be the face of their company. My company outsourced their tier 1 support, but tiers 2 and 3 are still in the US, because they need to understand the system, interact with the rest of the company, and generally be fluent in English on the phone.

  30. learn to live on less by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is no proof.. if not offshore, technological-unemployment will hit you.
    So learn personal-finance. Save more. Be frugal (cook -- plant based food).. take care of your health.
    Whatever income you can generate, save as much. Hopefully basic-income arrives soon.
    [yeah there is nothing I could offer as a career choice ..probably one doesn't exist]

  31. You could make it about you by Krishnoid · · Score: 1

    Thinking way outside the cubicle, one non STEM-based possibility is something where people value and pay for your personal presence or involvement in the product or service; e.g., the entertainment industry. Not sure how much this can provide by way of a livelihood, though.

    1. Re:You could make it about you by umghhh · · Score: 1

      Not sure if we think the same entertainment industry but there is always an issue with STD or if you have family STI. Use of drugs in entertainment industry is also a huge problem. Not sure how huge your income should be to cover for those.

  32. Offshoring is so 20th century... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With the advent of reliable shipping, we offshored the manufacturing facilities (physical offshoring).
    With the advent of reliable communication, we offshored the technical support (locational offshoring).

    With the advent of H1Bs, who needs offshoring; just import your workers from offshore ;)

  33. How about... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 2

    How about choosing a career you love and/or are very good at and can perform with passion. Choosing a career out of fear is probably not the best way to go. Just be so damn good it doesn't matter.

    1. Re:How about... by TigerNut · · Score: 1
      Exactly this. Nobody can love your personal favorite thing as much as you do, so it's actually not that hard to do it better than anyone else.

      Two names that would be examples (other than myself ;) )

      Linus Torvalds

      Theo de Raadt

      --

      Less is more.

    2. Re:How about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is there aren't many employers willing to pay good money for people expert at finding torrent sites and spending hours downloading files in violation of copyright.

    3. Re:How about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did. That career/interest was computers though. So, here we are.

  34. I think these fears are overblown. by PCM2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Being afraid that your job will be taken away by "overseas workers," besides its vaguely racists and xenophobic connotations, is just the latest flavor of a very old fear.

    Back in the days of the industrial revolution, it was automation that was going to take away the jobs. And in a sense, it did. But the population of (for example) the United States is larger today than at any time in its history, and most people still have jobs. Whahoppen? And yet now some of the people who weren't even alive during the industrial revolution are worried that robots and other machines will take their jobs away. Or foreigners.

    The best wait I can explain it is that you should never approach an employers with the idea that you are a consumer asking the employer to give you something, in this case a job. You should think of yourself a a business resource -- which is what you are, and in fact the most valuable one that exists on the planet. When you apply for a job, you are OFFERING an employer something. You are not the consumer. You are a supplier. So as an autonomous resource who has control of your own destiny, how do you increase your own value so that you are more attractive to your current and future employers? It ain't gonna happen by you taking a job and then sitting down at your desk and pretending you're going to do the same job for the rest of your life.

    If you're afraid that you've got the kind of job that your employer could just hand to somebody else tomorrow -- somebody you've never met, somebody who's never met anybody on your team, somebody who maybe doesn't even speak the same language as you -- then my first question is, don't you like money? Why are you in that job, when it can't be worth what they pay you for it and you could already be doing a lot better for yourself.

    A lot of tech workers seem to get confused and think their value to their employer is in the skills they have. That's true, partly. But I'd say at least half of being successful at any job -- and maybe even 80 percent -- involves interpersonal skills. How well do you work within the team? How able are you to anticipate what the business needs and act on that? In cases where there's a leadership vacuum, can you fill it? And then when it's time to follow directions, can you still do it?

    Or how about this one: Do you LIKE your job? Do you show up every morning feeling good and ready for work, because you feel like what you do for a living is something worth doing? I've talked to a lot of people who don't feel that way, and honestly I feel like a lot of that is on THEM. Going back to the idea that you're not a customer, you're a supplier ... you've gotta stick up for yourself. For most of us (hopefully) nobody has stuck a gun to our heads and made us take ANY job. It's true that they wouldn't call it work if it was all fun and games, but many of us spend more of each 24-hour day at work than we do sleeping. And certainly more than we do spending time with our friends and families. My advice is to spend that time on something you think is worth doing -- not something that a 10-year-old could do for you, if that was legal.

    Do that, and you're already ahead of the game. When you're in a job where your real value is not to some nebulous economic concept, but to the people who make up your business, then you're in a pretty good spot. You can outsource Worker X but you can't outsource Dave Johnson, because there's only one of him.

    So don't be Worker X. Maybe it sounds glib, but that's really the whole game. That's your life.

    --
    Breakfast served all day!
    1. Re:I think these fears are overblown. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think your take on reality is a bit off. For the last number of years, I have seen that the employer completely controls the job offer process for 99% of the jobs. Any prospective employee that walked into an interview with the attitude you have described would be laughed out of the office.
      As far as worries about being replaced by offshore labor, it is a reality for many of us. I lost my last position to outsourcing. My whole team is gone. We managed/supported very specialized software for a major Telecom, whose name you would instantly recognize. The outsourced team had *zero* experience with the software. It's not like we're were doing mundane work.
      All the hard and soft skills in the world don't amount to a hill of beans to the current breed of corporatists. The bottom line is all they care about. To think otherwise i

    2. Re:I think these fears are overblown. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think your take on reality is a bit off. For the last number of years, I have seen that the employer completely controls the job offer process for 99% of the jobs. Any prospective employee that walked into an interview with the attitude you have described would be laughed out of the office.
      As far as worries about being replaced by offshore labor, it is a reality for many of us. I lost my last position to outsourcing. My whole team is gone. We managed/supported very specialized software for a major Telecom, whose name you would instantly recognize. The outsourced team had *zero* experience with the software. It's not like we're were doing mundane work.
      All the hard and soft skills in the world don't amount to a hill of beans to the current breed of corporatists. The bottom line is all they care about. To think otherwise is naive.

      Corrected. Sorry for the bad post.

    3. Re:I think these fears are overblown. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I lost my last position to outsourcing. My whole team is gone. We managed/supported very specialized software for a major Telecom, whose name you would instantly recognize. The outsourced team had *zero* experience with the software. It's not like we're were doing mundane work.
      All the hard and soft skills in the world don't amount to a hill of beans to the current breed of corporatists. The bottom line is all they care about.

      Yup, doesn't really matter. I was constantly under threat of being replaced by "three or four" cheap offshore people for the amount i was paid, and experience didn't matter. In fact I was eventually replaced with an onshore person with virtually zero experience for probably 1/2 my salary (and even they couldn't figure out why they were getting hired as I was 'training' them and they kept saying 'why are they getting rid of you, you're obviously *way* beyond my level?'). Easy answer was "money". (Slighly more complex answer is "money, and they don't want people with skills - they want 'interchangable cogs' that are easy to replace, even if it takes a dozen of them to do the job of one person with experience").

    4. Re:I think these fears are overblown. by Kjella · · Score: 1

      A lot of tech workers seem to get confused and think their value to their employer is in the skills they have. That's true, partly. But I'd say at least half of being successful at any job -- and maybe even 80 percent -- involves interpersonal skills. How well do you work within the team? How able are you to anticipate what the business needs and act on that? In cases where there's a leadership vacuum, can you fill it? And then when it's time to follow directions, can you still do it?

      That's not really how it works, I don't know anyone who outsources one position. You make an assessment of your onshore team, you make an assessment of the offshore offering and you either do it or you don't. It doesn't matter if you're the star of the team or the glue that keeps them all together, if you're kicked to the curb it's all of you or none of you. Even if you're kept on you're just there to smoothen ruffled feathers until the offshore team are the ones running it, your new job is to be their coach until you've made yourself redundant.

      For example, thought it's not outsourcing as such my government recently decided to move certain public offices out of the capital. This is a political move far, far above the individual employee and they do expect some competency will be lost but it's still going to happen. Individual skills will not protect against this, only practical or legal reasons why outsourcing is unfeasible. Any sensitive data for example is usually a giant PITA to move out of your jurisdiction to workers who aren't bound by your national laws. More practical reasons can be because you're working too close with the clients, they need on-site availability, it integrates too closely with hardware or anything else that makes on-site presence necessary.

      Sadly this is a kick in the nuts to remote workers, as much as I'd really like a job I could do from anywhere I know then I'd also be in intense competition with the whole world. Because the value of my work doesn't come down to any of the above really, it comes down to supply and demand. Of course you can't expect massive demand but a stable niche you know they'll need for a long time where only a few can meet the requirements is usually a very safe spot. Like my current job I can't do shit from home, it's quite inconvenient but hell will freeze over before it's outsourced to India.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    5. Re:I think these fears are overblown. by bungo · · Score: 1

      I love your optimism.

      Everything is fair and just. If you show you are a valuable resource that can't be replaced, then you have nothing to fear.

      Wonderful!

      Of course, the people running the company will never make poor, short term, misguided decisions.

      Let me tell you a story.....

      I was working as an external consultant for a very large company. They have amazingly complicated business processes - in fact too complicated. I encountered a large issue caused by poor business processes , that was affecting multiple business units. For each individual business unit, there was an elevated cost, but taken over the all of the units, the cost was huge.

      Now, I didn't have enough knowledge to be able to resolve this, but there was a developer who had work there for 10 years, had contacts with all of the business units affected. With his help, I was able to arrange a meeting with multiple department head - which for this organization was a big achievement. I explained the issue, and the huge costs that could be saved. The developer was able to provide a solution, but it would also mean the way that 3 units worked would have to be slightly changed. The amount of work involved wasn't large, but the logistics were extremely difficult.

      So, what happened? This developer who have 10 years of business knowledge and could help save hundreds of thousands each year was let go. He was replaced by Infosys, and a team of people in India (yes, a team replaced one person - but, hey, it was still cheaper). Management didn't know and didn't care that the business knowledge was leaving. The developer was kicked out, then I left for another project in another company. The business practices were never changed, and the cost savings never occurred.

      It's been two years since, and I've heard that the outsourcing isn't going so well, and they have approached my consulting company group if they could put in a bid to take it over and bring it back on shore.

      but you can't outsource Dave Johnson, because there's only one of him.

      And there was only one of this developer with the business knowledge. It didn't save his ass from being outsourced to India.

      (By the way, the company got rid of their entire development group, not just this one guy. They lost other people who had more experience - these people knew what was happening a couple of years in advance, and so left, which ironically made the outsourcing decision easier, since the development group was at half strength anyway.)

      --
      "The best part? I became an ordained minister while not wearing pants." -- CleverNickName
    6. Re:I think these fears are overblown. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Being afraid that your job will be taken away by "overseas workers," besides its vaguely racists and xenophobic connotations, is just the latest flavor of a very old fear.

      I love people who try to shoehorn racism and xenophobia into the H1B debate. Rich assholes love it, too, it's quite an amazing distraction from the reality of the situation. Keep up the good work, you piece of shit.

    7. Re:I think these fears are overblown. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you want to work in HR? Because that's how you work in HR!

      No jokes though, I feel this is excellent advice! Thank you!

    8. Re:I think these fears are overblown. by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      I work in IT for a certain company that has been downsizing and offshoring. I now have the accounts that can not be offshored due to legal reasons. One account I have is even with me because they asked to come back to domestic support. I am one of the last ones left because I am very, very good at what I do. I don't just admin, I know how to build successful teams, I know how to make an entire account work, I satisfy the customer, I manage and I lead.

      The jobs will always be out there for the types of people who can produce huge results.

      The good news is, once customers see what offshore support looks like, you look like a god.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    9. Re:I think these fears are overblown. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lmao. I remember when people said this same bullshit about construction.

      The only construction jobs left if you're not a latino are those that require you to pass a test in written English.

      IT and engineering are going the same route. There are ~20 engineers at my job, 1 American.

    10. Re:I think these fears are overblown. by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Actually, correct answer is money AND people with skills AND people who are subservient despite having those skills

    11. Re:I think these fears are overblown. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Apart from for a relatively few people at the top of the heap, this is simply not how the employee-employer relationship works in real life.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  35. Project Managment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I've worked for six companies that have offshored project management, and all of them have had to move it back. Senior management and C-level people get tired pretty quickly of dealing with someone that can't communicate and doesn't work the same hours as they do. Plus, understanding the product and the customers is vital for that job. Coming from a technical background for that job is also a huge plus. I've worked on a lot of different software projects from Facebook games, accounting systems, payroll, and education, and in all of them, the offshore people were a disaster since they didn't understand the product or the customers.

    A bonus is that the PM jobs are usually pretty easy. Most of the PMs I've worked with worked about 1/2 to 2/3 of the hours that the developers are required to.

    1. Re:Project Managment by occasional_dabbler · · Score: 1
      The Boeing 787 shows the pitfalls of outsourcing in aerospace. We are way more conservative now in any outsourcing; it has to be 'monkey' work following very strict processes that we develop and debug on site before hand. The key thing is that all the creative, IP generating work is kept in Europe and only the really mundane stuff goes offshore.

      There is always the unvocalised issue that any IP sent to an Indian outsourcing company will be stolen.

      --
      "Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs," I said. "we have a protractor"
  36. Follow the money by sdinfoserv · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There will always be need for some local ‘hands on’ help. Networking is highly local, cabling, fiber , technicians, etc.
    However, so long as scum bag companies (like Disney, firing 100’s of US programmers then claiming they can’t find help and pushing for an increase of H1B’s), the job problem will only get worse.
    The fact is, the oligarchy that runs this country only cares about market cap, eps, and shareholder value. Screw American jobs, if they can reduce a cost by a penny, it’s done. If you’re at the top of the living scale country, you’re screwed – if you live in a 3rd world sh#t hole with no environmental, intellectual or labor laws, you’re king.
    They only way to stop the trend is to take big money (IE: corporate dollars) out of politics. Use tariff’s like they are intended, recognize corporations are NOT people (neither are chimps) for the simple fact that no one is ever held accountable . So, unless you all want to start crapping in outhouses over rivers in which you bath and drink from (google river pollution in India – the nexus of where your job likely went) , get politically active and vote OUT anyone opposed to campaign finance reform.

  37. offshore-sorta-proof by roc97007 · · Score: 2

    I've had fairly good luck in freelance computer repair. I found that there were enough customers to scrape together a living who were tired of "tech support" they couldn't understand and weren't any help.

    I'd say, work for yourself, find a job that requires the personal touch, and just be better at it than any offshore or H1B contractor could be.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    1. Re:offshore-sorta-proof by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've seen some success in this area as well, but I'm also seeing a generation coming up that understands tech better, and I'm seeing technology hardware itself change from something you repair to something you throw away (or hopefully recycle) and just get new. It's starting to feel like being a TV Repair Man in 2015.

    2. Re:offshore-sorta-proof by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      Generally true, but consider this -- a person called me Saturday who had a relatively new computer that just stopped booting. It gets to the splash screen and doesn't get any further. You don't throw out a computer for that reason (at least not yet) but Joe User probably doesn't have the expertise or understanding to diagnose and repair it. He found the original media (which was very fortunate -- many users have no idea where they put the disk) and I was able to talk him through the repair without losing his files. I don't think any offshore tech support person would even *try* to provide that level of service, let alone succeed.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  38. A loss safe job, HA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's all folks.

  39. Duh! by vanye · · Score: 1

    Sex worker.

    While outsourcing sex workers will work for the vacation bonk, the daily bonk needs to be closer...

    Pucker up, its working time...

  40. Engineering. Solve Problems by Sarusa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Problem solvers are far more in demand than ever, and that won't go away till we get strong AI (at which point the problem won't be offshore, but inCPU).

    I don't mean 'engineers' like code pigs or most IT drones (not a dig at IT, really good IT people are engineers too). You just have to be someone who can take all information about the problem, including the constraints, then design and implement the best solution given the constraints - that means time, budget, reliability, support needs, end of life, etc.

    The trouble is that most people can't do that, which is why it's in high demand. Risk assessment and mitigation are crucial and mostly untaught skills. Most people will just do what you tell them to, or take their favorite hammer and chainsaw and use it on everything in disregard of practical requirements. Most offshore 'engineers' fall into this category as well, which is one reason engineering outsourcing has such a bad stink among those who jumped on the bandwagon in the 2000s.

    Which leads to the other problem - it's nigh impossible to learn except by doing. Normal path is to get an engineering degree, then join an engineering firm and work on actual products - though if you join a big boring place like HP you still may end up just learning to be a code pig unless you're lucky enough to end up in one of their very few interesting divisions (memristors!). Obviously this is long term project, high expense. High risk till you get the degree, then fairly low risk.

    The other option is to just start making things. Make 'products' for yourself and try to finish them - i.e. make it something you could sell, even if you don't. This is easier than ever now thanks to explosion of low cost boards, motor controllers, cameras, drones... Get your hands on. Someone who can code, breadboard, solder and do servo control is a highly contested prize.

    The bad news is you may find you're just not suited for it. In which case your best hope is probably to find an avoided niche like COBOL.

    The good news is that if you're suited for it it's ridiculously fun and rewarding. Some days are still gonna suck, but generally you're solving interesting problems and making real things and people are using the things you made (this is THE BEST). Usually not as lucrative as banking or politics, but making decent money and helping rather than being scum of the earth (unless you go to work for Facebook, *zing*) is worth a lot of peace of mind.

    1. Re:Engineering. Solve Problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "engineering"??? LOL you have GOT to be kidding!

    2. Re:Engineering. Solve Problems by OzPeter · · Score: 1

      Problem solvers are far more in demand than ever

      Which is why GE has research centers in Bangalore and Shanghai and IBM has research centers in New Delhi and Beijing (to name just a few companies and locations)

      Don't make assumptions about where the smart people in the world are.

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    3. Re:Engineering. Solve Problems by Sarusa · · Score: 1

      This is from actually dealing with outsourcing in China, Singapore, India and Romania. For 15 years.

      I know there are *smart* people everywhere, and certainly if you hire an Indian or Chinese person here s/he's as good as anyone else. When outsourcing it's mostly a *culture* thing where actually solving a problem is far down the list of things they care about - at the very top is not pissing off their manager(s) by making waves or pointing out problems, or, say, saving 5 cents per unit by swapping out components for one that will fail in 1/10th the time but not telling anyone. For the outsourcing company, the thing they care about most is getting paid in the short term, then moving on to the next contract. Those values can change, of course, but since it's heavily cultural it's a slow ship to turn. The best people who don't fit this pattern get snapped up by good local companies and don't work on outsourcing.

      Right now I'm not worried at all - maybe in 20 years, but still not really, because the number of people who can problem solve will always be miniscule compared to the number of problems, and globalization creates tons more new problems.

      GE and IBM aren't very convincing. Those hidebound old lumbering farts got in during the goldrush and are just fine with mediocre results as long as it costs little and they can charge even dumber institutional clients more than it costs them. It'll probably pay off spectacularly in the long run when those countries do get their engineering cultures together. They'll be well situated.

    4. Re:Engineering. Solve Problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You just have to be someone who can take all information about the problem, including the constraints, then design and implement the best solution given the constraints

      This is the most insightful comment in the thread. The only thing I'd add to it is "trust". I don't think "xenophobia" is the right word for business owners who trust a local guy over a disembodied voice half a world away. You have a huge leg up on offshore competitors simply by being available for coffee and being able to speak the local dialect.

      You can't compete on the price of code-monkeying, but almost no one needs code monkeys. They need a human <-> codemonkey translator, because they don't even know how to describe their problem, let alone implement a solution. They'll trust monkeying to offshore businesses, but pay a premium for a local translator every single time.

    5. Re:Engineering. Solve Problems by gatzke · · Score: 1

      This. Some people are problem solvers, and some people can be taught problem solving skill / strategies but never are really good at dealing with complex problems.

      As a parent, I worry for my children. If they are not problem solvers, what else can they do that will not be totally automated? Nursing? Physical therapy? Fire/ Police? Stuff where you should need a physical presence and it will be difficult to robustly automate to deal with uncertain situations...

    6. Re:Engineering. Solve Problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Problem solvers are far more in demand than ever

      Which is why GE has research centers in Bangalore and Shanghai and IBM has research centers in New Delhi and Beijing (to name just a few companies and locations)

      Don't make assumptions about where the smart people in the world are.

      And when it comes back to the States oftentimes we have to throw it out and do it over because the quality of work is so poor.

  41. Writing on the wall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The "writing on the wall" has been there for about two decades now. When is it actually going to happen?

  42. I didn't work in IT by tquasar · · Score: 1

    I worked for The City of San Diego and career advanced to a $65K per year job. One of my sons is a Registered Nurse, the other works as a machinist for a small machine shop that has many contracts with local aerospace and aviation companies. Get an education or vocational training.

  43. Truck Drivers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Truck drivers are always needed, and the work is fairly easy. Making it a very good fall back job if nothing else is in the works.

    1. Re:Truck Drivers by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Truck drivers are always needed, and the work is fairly easy. Making it a very good fall back job if nothing else is in the works.

      They're always needed because the pay is crap. And I guess you missed this story about self-driving Freightliner 3 days ago

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  44. Welder/fabricator by theronb · · Score: 1

    Welders need to be on-site or nearby to repair equipment; skilled, talented welders get to fabricate new stuff - more interesting and remunerative.

    1. Re:Welder/fabricator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Robots R'Us

  45. IT. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Talented people will always be in demand.

    Of course, if you're sub-mediocre, you should probably worry. Because, yeah, sorry, your decade old skillset that you've never bothered to improve is not worth $150k/year.

  46. IT Security, PKI, CIRT, etc by rabun_bike · · Score: 1

    This trend is never guaranteed to hold but most of the large companies I deal with have US citizens on their product and internal IT security teams although I have seen in recent years a few H1Bs get in the mix. I am not talking about general IT security but specialized security teams within the company that do PKI, work with HSMs, CIRT leadership team (I have seen the analysis teams get off shored), PEN testing of internal and external applications, security teams that do government customization, and black box testing of products.

  47. Civil Engineering by plopez · · Score: 1

    As one person I know put it "I've had a good career, there was always steady work in roads and commodes". And I doubt there is a H1B threat out there. 've been to India and their infrastructure is terrible.

    Another friend of mine has had a nice stable career in AC electrical, mostly architectural and industrial construction work. Both of which required on-site inspections and 'boots on the ground'. AC electrical is also in demand for integrate alternative energy sources with a grid. Which also requires local inspections and 'boots on the ground'.

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  48. Incorrect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It's not so much citizenship, but whether you are a US person. A legal permanent resident (i.e. holding a green card) is a US person. A US citizen, working for a foreign government or company is NOT a US person.

    For export controls, there's a difference between ITAR/US Munitions List and EAR - Commerce, too.

    Security clearances are granted to both US citizens and legal permanent residents and even some non-permanent residents.

    Sure, the employment ads say "US Citizenship Required", but that's not technically the case.

  49. Data Center Implementator? by ruebarb · · Score: 1

    they may be able to source say, something like network support overseas, but at the end of the day, when hardware fails or need replacement or new installs in data centers in the US, you still need those guys who can do cabling, swap 6509's and so forth -

    I think the idea of a overseas proof career in IT are over, however. Ensuring you are always at the top of your game and being up on the latest skills even if it eats some of your personal time can go a long way though

    RB

    --

    ----------
    ah honey, we're all resplendent - Bill Mallonee
  50. Get the right initials behind your name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My IT career was mostly in (boring) accounting systems. Working with auditors, etc.

    Turns out, this work met the experience requirements to be a CPA in the State of California (because the department head was a CPA..) This can also work in similar areas like Sarbanes-Oxley compliance. I already had an MBA but I needed some accounting specific credits from a community college, passed the exams (a major challenge) and, voila, now I am a Certified Public Accountant in California.

    Totally offshore proof. Very specific initial requirements and lots of continuing education.

    But it works for me.

  51. works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Heck, we'll hire you too, and a few of your friends. Business is booming.

    You should enjoy hacking on stuff like emulators, boot loaders, compilers, OS kernels, and programs that analyse either binary executables or source code. It's great if you can deal with assembly code for any architecture.

    You get 40-hour weeks with optional paid overtime. You can run Linux. You can wear flip-flops. You can choose Austin, San Antonio, several couple sites near DC, Huntsville, or the main site in Indialantic/Melbourne, FL. Most sites offer offices with walls. Most sites offer extreme flex-time. Hint for the undecided: there is no state income tax in Florida or Texas, and housing is super-cheap in Florida.

    You can use http://advancedsecuritylabs.com/ to learn a bit more, and https://rtnsi.theresumator.com/apply to apply. The cool jobs have "Research" and/or "CNO" in the name.

  52. Become a capitalist by DeBattell · · Score: 1

    Use the money you're making while you still have a job to cram your 401k and IRS full of at least a few hundred k and preferably a million or more. Invest it in interest bearing bonds or dividend paying stocks. When your job finally gets off-shored, set up "Substantially Equal Periodic Payments"(google it) and live off that and do what the fuck you feel like doing. You might have to move to a smaller city if you get a late start, but it beats working even the coolest job. Hardest part is pitching it to your wife. You may have to replace her if she can't stand the idea that you get money without having to work.

    1. Re:Become a capitalist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Use the money you're making while you still have a job to cram your 401k and IRS full of at least a few hundred k and preferably a million or more. Invest it in interest bearing bonds or dividend paying stocks. When your job finally gets off-shored, set up "Substantially Equal Periodic Payments"(google it) and live off that and do what the fuck you feel like doing. You might have to move to a smaller city if you get a late start, but it beats working even the coolest job. Hardest part is pitching it to your wife. You may have to replace her if she can't stand the idea that you get money without having to work.

      This works best, only I would advise you to also invest a lot of money *outside* your 401k and IRA, in non-tax-deferred investments. If you get laid off, as I did, at 50, you've still got a lot of time before you can hit those 'retirement' accounts without penalty, while you can hit ordinary investments with just standard taxes, and often long-term capital gains at 15%, so you can live like Warren Buffett - it's nice to take in (like my last year) $80K that only gets taxed at 15% (well, plus some dividends & short gain, taxed higher), just in gains from some mutual funds.

      Of course there's no guarantee you'll get that every year, and you should try to reinvest some of it, and you're gonna have to pay quarterly estimated taxes or do paperwork to prove you're gains came infrequently (like end-of-year dividend/gains payout) to not get a penalty. You need way more financial 'savvy' than your average worker who contributes to a 401k "because they were told it's a good idea", doesn't know what a "sales load" is on a mutual fund, or management fees, and very importantly can't see trends (I sold almost everything in my 401k to cash by late 2007, to cash, because I saw the writing on the wall over "housing can only go up" - I've heard that before, watched it all crash and started buying back in 2009).

      I'm not living 'fantastically wealthy', but doing ok. Then again, I'm single... investing outside your 401k/IRA when you have a wife will be next to impossible, it'd cut into her 'spending budget'. :-P

  53. There is none other than in a secret service by prefec2 · · Score: 1

    Any skill level you can achieve in the US (I assume you are from the US) can also be achieved in any other country. Maybe India and China are not yet up to speed, but it is only a matter of time that they on the same level. Especially, when I look at today's students and their inability to code and to design software. Recently, I learned on an conference that my impression from my little world was shared all over the world. So you might be able to be above average, but from a general perspective for every above average there is one below. So either you are already in a save place because your skills and your capabilities are required or you just average or worse then you will get paid less in future. Maybe you should offshore yourself and follow the jobs.

    1. Re:There is none other than in a secret service by kenwd0elq · · Score: 1

      Indian and Chinese tech workers are often excellent technically, but run into road blocks trying to talk to Americans over the phone, because their accents are sometimes horrendous. One of our vendor companies has offshored their technical support to India. He was trying to help me with the problem on a remote connection and on the phone, and I couldn't understand 2/3 of what he said. Finally I hung up the phone, opened a Notepad window, and typed "Sorry, my phone just died. We'll have to chat this way." The Indian tech could TYPE English perfectly well - he just couldn't SPEAK it.

    2. Re:There is none other than in a secret service by OzPeter · · Score: 1

      Indian and Chinese tech workers are often excellent technically, but run into road blocks trying to talk to Americans over the phone, because their accents are sometimes horrendous.

      Aside from the accents there are also other cultural issues at play*. Last week I had an Indian guy leave both an email and a voice mail saying "I've got great news for you." And didn't tell me what the effin "great news" actually was. I had to call him back in order to find out what he was actually talking about. And when I did get on to him he then had to lead me along this extremely verbose description of events leading up to why he called me (a series of events that I was well aware of as it had been developing over the last 2 weeks and I had been involved in them.)

      In his case I felt he was suffering from a major dose of 3rd world bureaucratic empire building, and couldn't come straight to the point even if it he had to do it to save his own life.

      * EG The classic Asian personality of not being able to say "no" to something.

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    3. Re:There is none other than in a secret service by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did the "good news for you" turn out to be similar to what Suarez the pitcher got from his manager?

    4. Re:There is none other than in a secret service by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I manage a (rather large, 250+) team of Indian developers, and I must say.. about 1% of them are the equivalent of a Westerner. While they may have the intellectual capacity, or the drive to do the job, or the interpersonal skills, it is very rare to find one that has all three. The biggest problem my company has is that almost every Indian we hire is the prototypical definition of a cargo cult programmer. Hence, well over 80% of developer time is spent in code review and iterating over the same issues OVER and OVER again. And even then, almost every ticket is cleaned up by an onshore developer that could've done the job correctly in 1/10th the time. There is very little desire to better the codebase, and the most depressing part is that sometimes the only way to make an offshore team care about the quality of their work is by pruning out the weaker members.

  54. Blue collar job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Plumber, elevator tech, electricians, HVAC, brick layer, pipe fitter, maintenance worker. Pick one. Cant offshore the things that REQUIRES hands on work.

    With 10 years of IT experience and with a college degree in computer science, I made the jump into HVAC and i'm currently service an apprenticeship with a HVAC install and maintenance shop. My age (maturity) and my technical background allowed me to transition well. With that said blue collar apprenticeships is tough work (at time hard manual work and long hours). But its not always like this and it does get better over time. You just have to prove to your coworkers that they can trust you.

    If you have a good mechanical aptitude, capable of working on your feet, and can speak to customers, then blue collar is the way to go.

  55. Pizza by Moof123 · · Score: 1

    I was chatting with a guy who runs a small wood fired brick oven pizza oven at the local farmer's market. Turns out he is a former IT guy who quit his day gig to do the farmer's market circuit year round. Gets to be outdoors, and his work load is a lot lighter for about 7 months of the year when the days and hours scale back for winter. Can't say it would be my first choice, but compared to cube life it doesn't look too bad. So starting your own business is an option.

    In my case I do mixed signal ASIC design for a German company, so I am actually on the off-shore side of things (there is a limited talent pool in Germany more so than a wage gap). While there plenty of places doing ASIC work, it still appears that the barriers to entry are high enough that design shops pop up where there is a critical mass of workers with experience rather than just where the rent is cheap.

  56. A job where you have to improvise by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

    For some reason offshore workers are efficient only when you tell them exactly what to do. If there is only a small part left to interpretation they will do it wrong. Jobs where you are given only vague ideas and you have to fill the gaps yourself should be safer.
    I'm not saying that foreigners are worse than locals but those who aren't will not be the ones you'll get when you look for cheap labor.

  57. The answer is in the service industry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How do you like washing dishes or flipping burgers? What am I kidding, flipping burgers can be offshored...

  58. Be a plumber.. by MpVpRb · · Score: 1

    ..or an electrician, or a carpenter, or a gardener or any other profession where physical presence is required to do the job

    If virtual presence is good enough, you can be anywhere with good internet

  59. You're screwed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All the jobs suitable for introverts, autistic spectrums, and people with just plain bad social skills are gonna go. The jobs left will be those actually calling the shots and bringing home the bacon. If you're reading this website that's probably not you, in other words. Thanks for playing!

    1. Re:You're screwed by jblues · · Score: 1

      All the jobs suitable for introverts, autistic spectrums, and people with just plain bad social skills are gonna go. The jobs left will be those actually calling the shots and bringing home the bacon. If you're reading this website that's probably not you, in other words. Thanks for playing!

      Funny, sad and true all at the same time.

      --
      If it acquires resources on instantiation like a duck, then its a shared_ptr<Duck>
  60. Guaranteed On-Shore Jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WalMart Greeter. Fry cook at McDs. Office cleaner....

  61. Hands-ON Work by kenwd0elq · · Score: 1

    Get a job, or enter a career that require that YOUR HANDS touch the hardware. If you can use Skype, Webex, LogMeIn or TeamViewer to do your work, your job can be outsourced to India or the Philippines. (The Philippines are taking online-support work away from India because Filipinos often speak excellent English, while Indian and Chinese accents are sometimes unintelligible.)

    For example, I work for a document management company that started as a copier company. Our copier techs drive to the customer's location and repair and maintain the machines onsite. I work remotely, but in close consultation with the on-site technicians.

  62. Good luck with that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now here is the rub: A lot of places -WANT- someone with a clearance.

    They don't want to get your ass cleared though. In fact almost nobody will clear you unless you have some skill set that is absolutely needed.

    Trust me on this... I've been to many interviews where I was asked my clearance ID, or my CISSP ID... and with neither, I was told, "sorry... next in line please" and shown the door.

    As for job recommendations. Go law. Pass the bar, and you never have to worry about unemployment again unless you get disbarred. LA and NYC are exceptions, but every state in the US needs good lawyers, and they are not getting offshored anytime soon. In fact, this is what high school conselors are telling the bright kids to do. Practice in debate class, go business, get your JD, and have an actual profession as opposed to fighting for scraps with the H-1Bs.

    1. Re:Good luck with that... by Slick_W1lly · · Score: 1

      Beg to differ,

      It's been quite a while that 'lawyers' have been outsourced. Simple things like house contracts, wills, and other things you'd normally need a lawyer for are being shuffled down the pipeline to India. Obviously not for the type of lawyers who stand up infront of judges/ juries and actually say stuff, but they're a small part of the plethora of lawyers in the world today.

      Practically the first hit on google for 'lawyers being outsourced' nets this, from 2013 : http://www.smallfirminnovation...

      And also - anecdotal experience tells me this happens.
      I had a friend who is a lawyer and complains about his corner of the profession being outsourced and also: I received a 'lawyers document' which had come from Bangalore... or somesuch bollocks.

    2. Re:Good luck with that... by pigiron · · Score: 1

      Utter rubbish. A majority of law school grads never practice. It is extremely difficult to get full time work as a lawyer since the supply far exceeds the demand.

    3. Re: Good luck with that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The lawyer comment is only true if you bring sth else to the table: STEM degree, other graduate education, a foreign language. Patent practice, immigration, etc., would be options. There are, for instance very, very few attorneys in the US that are fluent in, say, certain foreign languages. It'd be foolish to ignore these niches if you want work as a lawyer.

    4. Re:Good luck with that... by scottbomb · · Score: 1

      Just what the world needs, more lawyers. No thanks.

    5. Re:Good luck with that... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Ever heard of LPO - Legal Process Outsourcing? What do you think that is?

    6. Re: Good luck with that... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Maybe patent law could be useful, if one is coming from a tech background

    7. Re:Good luck with that... by cant_get_a_good_nick · · Score: 1

      Not so much with the lawyers. Imagine spending tens of thousands, possibly up to hundreds of thousands of dollars for your degree, and you can't get a job to pay it off. It's happening now.

      Imagine a world where most of the day to day stuff is paperwork. Now you get that paperwork on the Internet. Your $500 document fee is now a $29 download.

      A friend works for a volunteer agency that gives out legal advice. They have a waiting list for lawyers to give their services. Anything to get their name out, even free, since they can't get a job.

      So now we have jobs that need accreditation going away thanks to the Internet. Im not sure what's safe anymore.

    8. Re: Good luck with that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the same everywhere now: no specialization, no job. Create a niche/enter one, or join the unemployed herd (professional degree or no). COBOL, FORTRAN: they pay. Japanese skill plus professional certification: it pays. Obscure law niche (satellite law!): It pays. Only know contracts and torts? Standard wills? Join the herd - no money for your skills because there's too much competition.

  63. Be A Politician by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't recollect any being displaced by foreigners. Pretty high barrier to entry.

  64. Don't Seek A Career + Diversify by brian.stinar · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Professor J. Rufus Fears taught me that a "career" is a French word that means "path." He says it's a path to get from graduation into a retirement home. I have tried to internalize this concept, and it helped me take risks with quitting multiple career-type jobs to open up my own businesses. Roll the dice, and see how they land. Have an adventure, not a career.

    One business of mine is a software development company. This is my primary means of livelihood. Right now, I mostly contract out development services to small-to-medium sized organizations that have trouble staffing programmers. The vast majority of my clients are not large enough to hire a full time, on staff, programmer to help do what I (literally me programming, most of the time) do for them. I've developed a relationship with a programmer in Kazakhstan, where I can take advantage of the lower costs to get things developed cheaper than here. However, now I am working primarily with a MUCH more expensive local programmer, since his efficiency is higher, the Kazakh guy isn't as available and finding a new one is a ton of work, and on some projects the local presence far outweighs the cost savings by outsourcing. Plus, the American is my friend, an early mentor that taught me about web programming when we were both employees, and things are slow with him now so I wanted to get started working together (on a relatively small project for a client.) I'm also working on developing a software product for passive income, but that takes a LOT longer, and is much riskier than contracting.

    Another business I have is rental property close to the local university. That business is, by definition, tied to my geographical area. When software is slow, rents come in and I can work on home improvement projects. When software is busy, rents still come in and I can pay someone else to do emergency repairs, and put off improvements until a slow time.

    The concept of relying on a single employer for all my income is extremely scary to me. I would much rather diversify my software earnings across multiple clients to mitigate risk. Similarly, I'd rather have multiple one-bedroom apartments to rent out as compared to a big house to rent so that when one of the college students decides he cannot pay his rent this summer, and that he's leaving two months early (despite his two, international, trips setup...) I still have rents coming in. I have two companies which provide me with income, in terms of about seven clients/customers/renters. Both the Albuquerque software industry (most of my business is serving local customers) and the Albuquerque university rental market would have to collapse, simultaneously, for me to be majorly screwed. If anything, I'm pretty tied to Albuquerque and should try and diversify geographically more! I love Albuquerque though...

    I do not have a family to provide for. I'm working on changing that, with trying to be as good of a boyfriend as I can be, with the goal of getting married someday. I am not saying that you should throw away all sense of security for your family (if you have one) and become a hustler overnight. "Look kids, we get to have the BLUE Ramen noodles for dinner tonight! Insurance? Who needs it?!? Jesus is my insurance!" No, that's not what I'm talking about... My local, subcontractor, friend (that I am just starting to work together with) took the plunge about three months ago and went into business for himself. He has a wife and two kids. He prepared extremely well, and setup enough contracts to be making about 1.7x his salary for the first three months from basically day one. This is his first slow two week period, so we are working together. My local community has all sorts of people that are interested in promoting entrepreneurial activities, helping you get started, and providing free advice. I am extremely

    1. Re:Don't Seek A Career + Diversify by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

      Professor J. Rufus Fears taught me [amazon.com]that a "career" is a French word that means "path."

      Professor J Rufus Fears would be laughed at by my french neighbors if he used that to ask for directions, or where the bicycle path was.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    2. Re:Don't Seek A Career + Diversify by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Have an Adventure!" - 4 out of 5 adventurers end up dead.

      Being able to run a company isn't a skill the majority of people have. Sure it's "possible" to acquire the accounting, sales and management skills required to have a go at it yourself (or the HR skills and a few hundred thousand in spare cash to hire out the other three positions), but at what cost? Every minute spent beancounting is a minute less spent working.

      And don't say "be a contractor." Being a contractor is being a serial employee without the benefits. And you still have to do the sales job.

    3. Re:Don't Seek A Career + Diversify by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I've listened to the audio version of that course (it's very good) but I don't recall him saying that. I can't think of any word for a road that's even close.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    4. Re:Don't Seek A Career + Diversify by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      chemin, route, and parcours all spring to mind, but none of them have anything to do with career. The only thing that comes close is the french versions of career path - chemin de carrière (poor, almost franglais), and parcours professionnel (better) and similar.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    5. Re:Don't Seek A Career + Diversify by brian.stinar · · Score: 1

      Here's the etymology:
              http://www.etymonline.com/inde...

      I don't speak French, and it look archaic (middle French.)

      Did you listen to his "History of Freedom?" I was pretty sure it was in "Books that have Made History" but it might have been in that other lecture series. I don't think it was from any of his others.

      Thanks!

  65. No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My father in-law has a super top secret clearance (worked on the stealth stuff for the F-22) and he cannot get another job. There are quite a few people already that have clearances like that and they don't need anymore nor will they for the foreseeable future.

    If you know the right crowd where you can realistically get the job, CEO.

    If not, politician or physician.

    All STEM job are offshorable and subsequently insecure.

    1. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is your dad willing to move somewhere else? simplyhired.com lists lots of jobs near Washington, DC, that require a security clearance.

  66. We outsource all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am a software manager for a device company and we outsource a lot of our engineering, project management and manufacturing.
    This is the normal in these types of companies, its not the outsourcing you fear, its the opposite. We outsource to fill a gap in our skills or to augment our teams or to do stuff that we do not normally take on.
    We engage local companies and find local talent., no I know that this is different for large scale IT.

    WE WOULD NEVER EVER EVER OUTSOURCE OUR CORE IP!!!!
    this means that we will always have engineers and developers that our part of our company.

    NOTE: look up wages and inflation on India, China ETC. you will see that it is almost cheaper to keep engineering and manufacturing local. do the research on this and you will be surprised. at one point I was really fearful of this and it almost made me change careers ( I am glad that I did not).

  67. Quit IT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Plumbing and auto repair are safe so far...

  68. People NEED food, fuel and shelter by BoRegardless · · Score: 1

    Figure out new ways to make/deliver unique solutions.

  69. Then become an H-1B by tomhath · · Score: 4, Funny

    And move back to the US

  70. Knowledge and Experience Won't Save You by KermodeBear · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "knowing the business" or "being the best in what you do" would save one's derriere

    Except that it won't, except in very special circumstances.

    Let's be honest here: Most IT jobs - being a sysadmin, writing software, setting up a network - are not complicated. Most systems don't need much other than some some packages and configuration handled by something like Puppet. Most software doesn't do anything remarkable - it just shuffles data from point A to point B and displays a few things to an end user. Etc., etc.

    A vast majority of IT jobs only require mediocre skill and knowledge. Most H1-B folks I know have rarely been mediocre, but they ARE cheap and management doesn't know the difference anyway. All they know is eventually their widget does the new X they've been asking for. So what if the code is a terrible mess and deployment is a gigantic pain? The management doesn't see or care.

    Knowing the business? That's what project managers and other management-y types are for (or so they think). You and I know that a software engineer who is well versed in a certain business will design better systems, for example, but I've not once seen a manager that believes this way.

    Management sees IT staff as nearly a commodity with people easily interchangeable. They're not entirely wrong - not entirely - but they think they're not wrong at all.

    Remember: It isn't what YOU think that is important when a company is doing the hiring. What is important is what THEY think and how cheap they can get you and how much they can work you before you burn out.

    --
    Love sees no species.
    1. Re:Knowledge and Experience Won't Save You by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Knowing the business? That's what project managers and other management-y types are for (or so they think). You and I know that a software engineer who is well versed in a certain business will design better systems, for example, but I've not once seen a manager that believes this way.

      Huh, what? Project managers are typically generic drop-in process experts with PMP/Prince2 certification, there's usually a business analyst or reference group that are the subject matter experts. You might say project managers would do better with domain knowledge too, but that's ofte not the case unless it's just a side job to being the one designing/implementing it.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    2. Re:Knowledge and Experience Won't Save You by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are a software developer, adopting more Agile principles will help.

      Agile (done correctly) puts the developers (seen as commodities by some managers) in closer touch with the business (highly paid) folks. Once things are transparent and 1-on-1 communication / features start flowing its easy for the business folks to see who gets things done and who does not. That alone is enough to eliminate about 85% of the offshore devs. The remaining 15% are actually really fun to work with, and the business folks will scream if they have to work with the other 85% again.

    3. Re:Knowledge and Experience Won't Save You by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's be honest here: Most IT jobs - being a sysadmin, writing software, setting up a network - are not complicated. Most systems don't need much other than some some packages and configuration handled by something like Puppet. Most software doesn't do anything remarkable - it just shuffles data from point A to point B and displays a few things to an end user. Etc., etc.

      A vast majority of IT jobs only require mediocre skill and knowledge. Most H1-B folks I know have rarely been mediocre, but they ARE cheap and management doesn't know the difference anyway.

      Spoken like a fool who has never done core dump analysis on a computing cluster, or has actually worked with H1-B visa holders. Last issue first: I've worked with more waste product visa holders (including those from the EU) than I have North American engineers. The first issue: If you're talking about tier-1 or 2 systems administration, sure, it's fairly direct and easy.. even a moron like you might be able to do it. I've solved parallel computing issues that you'd never be able to grok.

    4. Re:Knowledge and Experience Won't Save You by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This article is very helpful and interesting thanks for sharing :)

      rahasia pria

    5. Re:Knowledge and Experience Won't Save You by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      So you learn how to build a team and run it effectively in a way that satisfies the customer. You learn how to lead people and make them happy. If you can do this, your team members may not always be in the same country as you but you will always have a job in yours.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  71. Prostitute? by metamatic · · Score: 1

    But I was wondering if some slashdotters could share some constructive real-life experiences of planning a transition to a relatively offshore-proof career.

    Well, how good are you at giving blow jobs? The oldest profession is unlikely to get offshored.

    --
    GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
    1. Re:Prostitute? by skovnymfe · · Score: 1

      You don't get out much, do you? It's all Thai and Eastern European out there.

  72. Become a network engineer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They dont outsource network engineering as much as they do with software engineering, and is less prone to H1bs. If you have years of experience + know what you are doing + some certs = you should be in a good spot

  73. DIY everything by aNonnyMouseCowered · · Score: 2

    Want to have the most crisis-proof career? Then start living the life of a survivalist. The idea is to grow, build and fix as much of everything you need. Then as a sideline, get any job that doesn't pay starvation wages and give you enough time off to starting growing, building and fixing the things you need. Make sure the stuff that you can't DIY is merely a luxury not an essential when worst comes to worst (nuclear winter, zombie apocalypse, asteroid impact, etc). Or at least make sure the thing is easily repaired rather than an iGadget only a service center halfway across the country can fix. Then you can use the income you get from your taxable job to buy your iPad, aPhone or electric scooter.

    1. Re:DIY everything by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      when worst comes to worst (nuclear winter, zombie apocalypse, asteroid impact, etc).

      You do know that one of those is incredibly unlikely, one is impossible, and the other might just as easily wipe out all life on the planet?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  74. Business Analysis evolved from IT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_analyst

    From the course I've took, it was a bunch of IT guys that noticed they where the ones who most understand how their companies "work" as whole, as they were the ones who developed the systems that enabled communication between all areas - a feeling I share. In the beginning their diagrams, artefacts and terminology resembled much of that of IT, but, as the field progresses, they are diverging, I'm considering investing more time on this on the future as companies start to see value on it, although now I'm (more than) fully employed in IT, and happy on it.

  75. Local law by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    A lawyer specializing in a state that's too small for an outsourcing firm to bother with. What Indian student is going to want to specialize in Rhode Island law?

  76. Portugal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Portugal has many aspects that portend to the a good place to give up US citizenship.

    But do the homework to move money to Swiss Banks, a few, before settling in and establishing shop.

    As a member of NATO, security clearance and access are not so different from within the USA; accurate records and dates needed.

    Added benefit: once a citizen of Portugal, retirement money instruments from other countries are not taxed by Portugal!

    Have fun.

  77. H.V.A.C. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    People are always going to need heating and cooling. You get in the Sheet Metal Workers or Pipefitters union and you get to live with a little bit of dignity instead of playing dog eat dog with the hungriest dogs in the world.

    Don't think about your career. Think about your life.

    I was part of the last generation for whom academia was a good career choice. I see the hollowed eyes of the kids who are still thinking a PhD is a golden ticket to a tenured professorship and banging co-eds. I got lucky because of when I was born. I hope those of you in tech, in the US, are smart enough to see the writing on the wall.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  78. Do computer or internet security. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get involved with security... as in securing things, not as in requiring security clearance. A lot of things cannot be exported due to federal regulations, and security is one of them. Americans don't want to trust their national security to another nation. Try checking out CISSP certification.

  79. If you want a technical job by pscottdv · · Score: 1

    Perhaps civil engineering or hvac engineering. Engineering-level construction jobs can be very rewarding and are well paid.

    I also happen to think that software development will continue to be a rewarding career. I recently went back to it myself when I realized that the need for software is going to increase faster than the world can supply talented developers.

    --

    this signature has been removed due to a DMCA takedown notice

  80. Write app store-type software by myid · · Score: 1

    Write applications for an Apple or Android app store. Then you don't have to worry about getting hired and fired. Just know that it's hard to make your app stand out.

    When you use your computer or mobile device, be on the lookout for times when you get annoyed because something is awkward or impossible to do. Then see if you can write easy-to-use software for that problem.

  81. Garbage by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

    Become a garbage man.

  82. M1 what? by pigiron · · Score: 1

    There is lots of different US military hardware that has been named M1 (model 1.)

    1. Re:M1 what? by rikkards · · Score: 1

      If he is talking about the Garand (and I think he is), although Garand was Canadian, he designed it while in the US for the US, so technically it is US hardware

  83. Starbucks Barristo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The coffee would be rather cold if the pour is done halfway around the world.

    SD

  84. The world needs ditch diggers by wyattstorch516 · · Score: 1

    -Judge Smails

  85. Few and far between by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

    The only jobs that are "offshore-proof" are jobs that require a *very* high security clearance and can't be done by non-citizens for reasons of law and national security or jobs that literally cannot be done from a remote location, such as janitorial work. So, you have to either be the absolute top in your field or switch to menial labor.

    Or, and I know this might sound ridiculous if you buy into right-wing politics, you could actually support politicians, laws, and unions that work towards ensuring that every American has a good paying job and that penalize companies for sending jobs out of the country.

    --
    -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
  86. Consulting by Tool+Man · · Score: 1

    Even if the job is mostly remote (as mine is), many clients want to see you once in a while. Or, maybe you are doing internal testing which requires you to be on-site, but only project-focused, not all the time. I've managed to off-shore myself (literally, on an island), while being responsive to clients and still able to travel in a reasonable period of time when needed.

  87. Mental Health, Well-Being and the Workplace Story. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dear Slashdotters,

    I have not had the chance to share my story with everybody because its a rather dark, twisty tale. However, I will say this.
    I was recently approved by a program in my Country. (Canada) for Severe Handicaps which guarantees a wage of around 1500-1700 per month along with Health benefits; Permanently. I consider working in server rooms since the age of 20 to prssent (Lets say 30i, ugh I hate to say it but I might as well get used to it, Cuz It won't be long.)
    -I have worked in IT and worked my way up through it since I was 17 Years old; starting with small IT Shops as early as 12 on a volunteer basis as well as obviously programming, building PC's, trying to beat at-the-the-time gamegods in quake competitions, etc. I had a pretty fun youth, but was also in Foster Care for a large part of it.
    (Wow that was long,)
    -I burnt out very fast, After about 10 years.
    I was taking many courses as well, Business Analyst type stuff, Business Management, etc.
    I ended up spending far too much time the last few years doing inspirational things over the weekend or overnight, Which I know see was manic behavior once I became engineer in datacenter type IT guy doing all sorts of things, all sorts of meetings with Telco suits, Fake suits, Sexy suits.
    I started using Drugs, Amphetamines (Then Prescribed at the time to me for ADD-type tendencies, AKA having an almost impossible time being a regular worker-bee and doing what I wanted, even if I wanted to be sitting at my desk, Sometimes I just couldnt get myself to sit there and would wander around.)
    Drugs like those, Gave me far greater amounts of stress and doing things like 48-hour'ers - I have proof of thousands of unpaid hours. But, I have not taken my employer to court; after breaking down and not being able to deal with anything related to IT infrastructure shortly around or after the time heartbleed happened.
    -I am Cisco-Certified.

    I do know know what I plan to do, I live in Canada; Particularily an area of the country known for great trades and wealth in oil. My stepfather has given me an opurtunity to go live with him up there, If I am serious about working there. In this case "There" is Fort McMurray. There are alot of Redneck type people, Hard working type people; and drug and all sorts of people from all over the world working in this "Very small Town" which, On average for example: Tim Hortons employees are pair 18-20 an hour to start there vs the 10-11 an hour to start in my town. They also recieve over 20-30$ in tips every couple days. Whereas in my town, My Mother is lucky to receive even 2 dollars tips in a few days as its not custom, nor expected at such a place. I am rambing tldr but you get my point, Its a wealthly Place.
    -So I am considering either picking up a solid trade, Recognized by my country and having standards in place country-wide; and a very good designation to have of any sort in high demand or practrical or otherwise
    -I have little skills with Building, or other Hard, Complicated or Physical cleverness. I am very good with computers, IT Infrastructure, Everything you could imagine from even managing MPLS networks; etc. But I am considering starting from the bottom as an Apprentice as IT is not reognized as a trade in my Province, nor my nation; nor anywhere else I know of.
    The fact I've worked at Dell and been promoted at Dell, worked at IBM, worked at two Companies who had been around since the 40's and had IT since the 80's into Virtualization and Red Hate Enterprise Linux, or the fact I've been an Apple XSAN Administrator seems to mean nothing to nobody.

    Add that to the fact I am guaranteed 1600 a month, To do nothing doesn't make it easy to ignore the fact the TRUTH that IT IS DANGEROUS.
    Not only to health as I went mental (Yes there were amphetamines involved, but still). I literally stopped showing up at the datacenter. Please note, There was various large Telco High-Output (Max of Safety Code regulation, Unusual for such a densely populated Urban area but it is grandfathered

  88. Re:Mental Health, Well-Being and the Workplace Sto by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dear Slashdotters,

    I have not had the chance to share my story with everybody because its a rather dark, twisty tale. However, I will say this.
    I was recently approved by a program in my Country. (Canada) for Severe Handicaps which guarantees a wage of around 1500-1700 per month along with Health benefits; Permanently. I consider working in server rooms since the age of 20 to prssent (Lets say 30i, ugh I hate to say it but I might as well get used to it, Cuz It won't be long.)
    -I have worked in IT and worked my way up through it since I was 17 Years old; starting with small IT Shops as early as 12 on a volunteer basis as well as obviously programming, building PC's, trying to beat at-the-the-time gamegods in quake competitions, etc. I had a pretty fun youth, but was also in Foster Care for a large part of it.
    (Wow that was long,)
    -I burnt out very fast, After about 10 years.
    I was taking many courses as well, Business Analyst type stuff, Business Management, etc.
    I ended up spending far too much time the last few years doing inspirational things over the weekend or overnight, Which I know see was manic behavior once I became engineer in datacenter type IT guy doing all sorts of things, all sorts of meetings with Telco suits, Fake suits, Sexy suits.
    I started using Drugs, Amphetamines (Then Prescribed at the time to me for ADD-type tendencies, AKA having an almost impossible time being a regular worker-bee and doing what I wanted, even if I wanted to be sitting at my desk, Sometimes I just couldnt get myself to sit there and would wander around.)
    Drugs like those, Gave me far greater amounts of stress and doing things like 48-hour'ers - I have proof of thousands of unpaid hours. But, I have not taken my employer to court; after breaking down and not being able to deal with anything related to IT infrastructure shortly around or after the time heartbleed happened.
    -I am Cisco-Certified.

    I do know know what I plan to do, I live in Canada; Particularily an area of the country known for great trades and wealth in oil. My stepfather has given me an opurtunity to go live with him up there, If I am serious about working there. In this case "There" is Fort McMurray. There are alot of Redneck type people, Hard working type people; and drug and all sorts of people from all over the world working in this "Very small Town" which, On average for example: Tim Hortons employees are pair 18-20 an hour to start there vs the 10-11 an hour to start in my town. They also recieve over 20-30$ in tips every couple days. Whereas in my town, My Mother is lucky to receive even 2 dollars tips in a few days as its not custom, nor expected at such a place. I am rambing tldr but you get my point, Its a wealthly Place.
    -So I am considering either picking up a solid trade, Recognized by my country and having standards in place country-wide; and a very good designation to have of any sort in high demand or practrical or otherwise
    -I have little skills with Building, or other Hard, Complicated or Physical cleverness. I am very good with computers, IT Infrastructure, Everything you could imagine from even managing MPLS networks; etc. But I am considering starting from the bottom as an Apprentice as IT is not reognized as a trade in my Province, nor my nation; nor anywhere else I know of.
    The fact I've worked at Dell and been promoted at Dell, worked at IBM, worked at two Companies who had been around since the 40's and had IT since the 80's into Virtualization and Red Hate Enterprise Linux, or the fact I've been an Apple XSAN Administrator seems to mean nothing to nobody.

    Add that to the fact I am guaranteed 1600 a month, To do nothing doesn't make it easy to ignore the fact the TRUTH that IT IS DANGEROUS.
    Not only to health as I went mental (Yes there were amphetamines involved, but still). I literally stopped showing up at the datacenter. Please note, There was various large Telco High-Output (Max of Safety Code regulation, Unusual for such a densely populated Urban area bu

  89. Create your own career path by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 1

    ... offshoring to other members of the Five Eyes isn't going to reduce costs much ...

    The guy is asking for a job which is offshore proof, and you guys go off tangent talking about cost of offshoring to five-eye countries ...
     
    Anyway, the one and only way to ensure that what you do does not and will never go offshore is to create that career for yourself

    You can never rely on somebody else ... ie., and employer ... because they are there to make a profit

    So, pick a field, a field which you know you are very capable in, and start your own business in that field

    And since it's YOUR OWN BUSINESS, you, as the boss, get to have the final say on whether you gonna offshore the operation of your own company, or not

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:Create your own career path by Entrope · · Score: 1

      The stereotypical reason to offshore a job is to reduce costs, so pointing out that offshoring these jobs would increase costs is not a tangent -- it's an explanation of why they are unlikely to be offshored. Besides, that BAE Systems logo doesn't mean that it was developed outside the US. BAE owns a huge number of US locations, which are operated mostly independently by a subsidiary incorporated in the US.

      Companies don't automatically make profits. You can start a new business, but you are still going to face competition from overseas. Most new businesses fail, and those that don't require the founder(s) to stay super-busy for quite a few years before the business starts to operate well. Of course, it might never operate that well; the owner might make less than they did before, but just have more control over their schedule and work. Starting your own business neither prevents offshore competition nor ensures financial success.

  90. Garbage Collection, Plumbing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are tons of jobs that cannot be exported.

  91. Any skilled labour basically by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    Mike Rowe has given some good talks about the shortage of skilled labour in the US and what a problem it is. This kind of thing can't be outsourced since, well, the labour is needed in the US. I suppose it could be replaced with H1Bs but that doesn't seem to be happening.

    Most of it is stuff like plumbing that isn't glamorous, and even can be dirty, but it is necessary and will continue to be necessary. Eventually robotics may advance to the point of replacing it, but not in the foreseeable future.

  92. Sewing Machine Repair Man by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A couple of years ago I got into repairing sewing machines. Not something I really chose, wife just kind of dumped it on me. But have you seen a modern sewing/embroidery machine? They've got on board computers, dozens of sensors, touch screens, stepper motors. It's a pretty girly sport, but the machines are crammed with robotics and technology. More work than I know what to do with - and the women are genuinely thankful when you repair their 'baby'.

  93. Left a career in tech support (Corporate and ISP) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now I drive Metropolitan Electric Trains.
    I make more money, spend more time with my kids, and never bring work home.

  94. School teacher or hard core software development? by alex4747 · · Score: 1

    Being a school teacher is not that bad if you can do this job. Otherwise just plain hard core software developer seems like a pretty decent path.

    I doubt that India and China can raise outsourcing levels, quality is poor and the cost is going up by an hour.

    All other countries are small or have a very long way to go. Looking around me I find that even pretty inept engineers are employed. Yes, the most inept engineer I met in past 25 years moved to be a store manager but he was really exceptionally inept.

    IMHO, all remaining outsourcing trends are due to the fact that management simply could not find anything else to do.

    So, if you can do something beyond filling getters and setters generated by your IDE, your job prospects are decent. If you know why setters should be deleted (*) your job prospects are good relative to most of the other mass occupations.

    BTW I do believe that sucking the rest of world dry from talent is a good idea in many respects. Among other thing it is way easier to compete against some one making 1/2 of your salary vs one making 1/10th.

    (*)Setters break encapsulation - for ones who did not learn it yet.

  95. Primary Care Doctor / Family Doctor by swamp_ig · · Score: 1

    satisfaction is amazing. Pay is reasonable. Automation prospects are negligible.

    You have to like people however amd have a thick skin

  96. Window cleaner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    its the clear choice

  97. Big Data and Data Science by clifwlkr · · Score: 1

    I have been a programmer for over 30 years now. The best way to keep your job is to jump on the hard technologies that real industry is doing, not the latest dot bomb thing. That stuff goes to India or Costa Rica. Manufacturing needs big data to reduce production costs. Marketing needs it as well. It is hard stuff you can't just hack out, and you need practical math. The clients also expect good communication skills and don't mind grey hair. I think being a data engineer is going to hold out against large scale offshoring for awhile. That is my bet, anyways, and I have managed to stay at the forefront for quite a few years. Also, get the heck out of Silicon Valley. Go to America's offshoring places. I am in Utah, and get paid much less but can buy so much more. My cost of living is fractional of CA. We are America's India and business is booming.

  98. The only thing you can do ... by Rambo+Tribble · · Score: 2

    ... is become one of the 1-percent. Otherwise, if your job isn't offshored, you'll be replaced by a robot. Basically, you have to own the robots to win.

  99. Always have another job offer in your back pocket by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Periodically (maybe once or twice a year) go interview at another company. Not because you necessarily want to quit, but just so that they know who you are. If you did well, they will know who you are and contact you from time to time to find out if you're interested. This has a few effects:

    1) Other companies know who you are and know that you're competent, and want you to come work for them.
    2) Keeps your interview skills up to date.
    3) Offers an insurance policy in case things go downhill at your current job.

    Nothing more satisfying than turning in your two weeks notice the day after some C business student whose only real skill is ass-kissing talks down to you as if he knows more about your job. I thought he was going to cry.

  100. only one is to own business by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    Seriously, you have to own the business. Oddly, america has load of ppl with great skills that should be focused on starting their own company as opposed to working for others.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  101. The U.S. Is Importing Cheap Labor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's going to make finding such a career difficult. We've got H1-B visa workers coming in, but also illegal immigrants. The H1-B visa holders are pushing people out of white collar work. The illegals are pushing people out of low-end work (my old neighborhood in NJ used to have paid white lawnmowers; emphasis on "used to").

    The only solution I see is to halt both the visas, illegal immigration, and perhaps even reduce legal immigration. The problem is that most politicians (both right and left) are bought and paid for by the Immigration Lobby (FWD.us and others). People need to work together to get politicians to act properly on this issue.

  102. Tai Chi by dave562 · · Score: 1

    It is not for everyone, but when I get tired of doing IT I am going to teach tai chi. I have been training for almost 15 years now and while I am not a master, I have some proficiency with it. Tai chi is good for health and the philosophy behind it is one of the better ways to live a life.

    I am not too worried about my job leaving any time soon. Given the average competence of my co-workers and the lack of competence that I have seen from H1Bs, I know that my position is going to be stable for a while. The reality is that there are not that many people who understand IT environments from top to bottom (technically) and who can also work with the business side to transform their needs into working systems that are delivered and managed on budget.

  103. Upper Management by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just as I've never seen a legislator vote to reduce their own pay, I've never seen a manager offshore their own job. Every other job, yes. Not their own.

  104. Upper Management by cybersquid · · Score: 1

    Just as I've never seen a legislator vote to reduce their own pay, I've never seen a manager offshore their own job. Every other job, yes. Not their own.

  105. A job where facetime and proximity $$$ by Stolpskott · · Score: 1

    Having just finished a contract in the investment banking arm of a Swedish bank, I can point to a range of frontline support and development roles which are going to be RELATIVELY outsource-proof. Telephony system support; desktop support; trading platform support; algorithm/decision support system development; basically anything that an investment banking trader is going to need in order to process a deal, although the specifics are going to vary by company.
    Those traders are (a) paid a metric crap-ton of money, and (b) stressed by anything and everything from reflections on the screen to their coffee being too hot.
    Having to pick up a phone and shout at someone in another country is not going to work - even someone in the SAME BUILDING, but on a different floor does not do it. They want someone in the same room (same room is not a small office, this is typically a trading pit with 250-300 people in it, so pretty big) who they can grab (sometimes literally), point at the problem and yell "fix it", before running off to chug down a couple of valium. If they do not get what they want, they bitch at their managers about how the company is not giving them the tools to do their job (make tons of money for the bank).
    The typical overhead for one of those traders by the time their Bloomberg and Reuters real-time data licences plus software licences and broker fees is included, is well over $10,000 per month, and that is without accounting for their salaries, bonuses, IT hardware or software licences that are calculated at a corporate level - operating systems, Office package, databases etc. Overall, the "normal" monthly investment that the bank makes in that trader is over $100,000, so for the business, even when it is run by bean-counters or Harvard MBAs, whatever that person needs to increase their productivity, they get. So if the users say that they NEED an IT guy on the spot who can be at the desk within 20 seconds to look at and start working on the problem, that is what they get. If that IT guy is going to cost $80,000 - $100,000 per year instead of $15,000 per year for some guy called "Dave" with an Indian accent working out of Bangalore, tough shit, $65,000 is pin money.
    Remote access from outside the bank is almost always flat out refused for security reasons, so while off-site support can work, third-party support has to be on-site and in person.

    The only exception to the "local first" rule that I have seen, is the Bloomberg helpdesk. Those guys work remotely, and can be reached either by telephone (usually a call center somewhere in the same geographical region as the user) or by pressing F1 twice on your keyboard, which brings up a Messenger-style chat window. You type your question and it gets routed to a team that hopefully knows something about the specifics. Almost invariably though, when a trader gets a Bloomberg problem, it is batted off to the in-room IT guy who goes through the problem with the Bloomberg tech while the trader goes to pop another valium and get a massage to de-stress.

    Basically, if you are someone who can turn Excel inside out, write high quality C++ code while being constantly interrupted, and solve whatever random crap problems come up while maintaining a calm demeanour and keeping the world's most stressed people from flying into hypertensive shock, then you have a job for life.
    A typical day? Printer is out of paper; another printer is jammed, and has a full waste toner bottle; internet connection for user X is down; User Y has just sent a naked picture of client A's wife to client B by mistake; Murex overnight jobs have failed so the D3 trading platform has the wrong start prices and wrong date, so someone needs that escalating to the Murex support team to get it fixed; User Z has just got in and spilled coffee in his Bloomberg keyboard so the biometric login does not work; vendor A upgraded their app without telling anyone last night, so now all the users of that system cannot login; the row of desks 24-48 are completely dead, Christ knows why, although t

  106. license by superwiz · · Score: 1

    Any job that requires a license cannot be performed by someone off shore. Immigrants *can* do them, but only permanent ones. You can't make a claim that a guest worker is needed because he (as a foreign national) is licensed. But even that doesn't really hold up. The only people who still have the job they had 40 years ago are the ones who have stake in the company. So chose employment which offers partnership.

    --
    Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
  107. Job vs global population by mrflash818 · · Score: 1

    I enjoyed reading all the offshore proof ideas people posted.

    I get the sinking feeling, "there is no sanctuary" for most of us. The offshore proof 'good' jobs are only a few, and once a city has X many plumbers, or lawyers, or nurses, doctors, mechanics, ...then what about everyone else?

    It seems that there may be a finite reservoir of total possible jobs all of humanity can do, they seem a resource to think about like we do for drinking water, farm-able land, and such.

    With the constant upward growth of global population from 7B ==> 9B, it looks like it is a race to the bottom for most of us. Too many people chasing too few 'good' jobs, and every year the odds less in our favor.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    --
    Uh, Linux geek since 1999.
    1. Re:Job vs global population by mark_reh · · Score: 1

      2B more people will need a lot of doctors, dentists, and lawyers.

  108. You voted for it, eat your own pudding .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Vote against the bug-business robot congressmen who want to balloon the H1B program and/or support offshoring. Most of this job instability, you voted for it, in your own ignorance of what it would mean to you. Obama wants your job offshore. So does Chuck Schumer, Kevin McCarthy, and Mitch McConnell.

  109. Be a waiter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They can't outsource that, yet!

    But not someone who mans a drive thru window. Because they've already outsourced that!

    Outsourcing is pure evil.

  110. Do You Want Fries wi dat Mac ? by tmjva · · Score: 1

    Fast food industry?

    --
    Tracy Johnson
    Old fashioned text games hosted below:
    http://empire.openmpe.com/
    BT
  111. off shore this by warpuck · · Score: 0

    burger flipper at McDonald's

  112. No such thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good luck on that. in my experience there doesn't seem to be an IT job that is no out source able. If you find this unicorn let us know

  113. I went from EE to dentist at 52 YO by mark_reh · · Score: 1

    Returned to school at 46 YO, 2 years of prerequisites followed by 4 years of dental school. $150k in student loans at 6.8%.

    Dentistry is exactly the opposite of engineering. My work is appreciated by my patients, and I get respect. They can't send my job to China/India/wherever because they can't send my patients to China/India/wherever. Pay is a little more than I made as an engineer and growing rapidly.

    I just wish the ADA wasn't so far to the right on the political spectrum...

  114. Lawyer joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    An SUV with 5 lawyers went over a cliff. What was the tragedy? There was room for one more lawyer.

  115. Offshore-proof career? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ain't no such thing. Get over it.

  116. Mechanic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Diesel engine mechanic. It's dirty work but there's no arguing that trucking and rail are the lifeblood of the US freight system.

  117. Well, since I work offshore by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
    (1) Being best in the world (or within the top couple of dozen) never hurts.

    (2) Make sure that your skills are needed on the site of the work, and your job doesn't depend on having communications. We've lost 75% of our communicatinos because of the crane operator putting a load through one of the satellite radomes, so my work on this vessel is safe until the end of the contract.)

    (3) multiple languages help. Anything other than English (I have moderate French and Spanish, a smidgin of Swahili and a dash of Russian) is an advantage against people who only have English.

    (4) Get used to travelling. I'm half-way through this trip, with another month to go. Maybe more - who knows ? (No-one. Anywhere.)

    Ummm, they're the main bits of advice I can give you.

    What? You want to go to your home every night, and you work in communications of some sort? Well then, sir, you are in direct competition with millions of people all over the world who also intend to go home at night and work in communications. Many of them live in a lower cost economy than you do (in fact, precisely half of them live in a below-median cost-of-living economy. That is what "median" means.), and so you are, irrevocably, vulnerable to losing your job to them. It's called globalisation. Welcome to the brave new world. No, you cannot leave.

    --
    Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"