Slashdot Mirror


Taylor Swift: Apple's Disdain For Royalties Is 'Shocking, Disappointing'

Mark Wilson writes to note that Apple Music, yet unlaunched, already faces resistance on several fronts. From the BetaNews article: It's not just smaller, independent labels that are complaining about Apple's refusal to pay artists any royalties during the initial three month free trial period. Taylor Swift has added her voice to the growing number of complainants, writing an open letter to Apple in which she says she will withhold her new album "1989" from the service. In the letter, entitled "To Apple, Love Taylor," the singer says that the company's decision not to make royalty payments is "shocking, disappointing, and completely unlike this historically progressive and generous company." Swift is an artist who could afford to shoulder the cost of three months of not being paid by Apple, but she has chosen to make a stand and stick up for those who are less fortunate.

368 comments

  1. DIS-DAIN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Goes the Swift-Boat!

  2. that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    "shocking, disappointing" are the most common words I've heard use to describe Taylor Swift's music.

    1. Re:that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not a TS fan, in fact I don't even know what her voice sounds like, but it sounds like she's sticking up for her less successful fellow musicians here.

      The music biz is becoming a monopsony.

    2. Re:that's funny... by lucm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      She is a pop-country singer that comes up on a regular basis with catchy tunes with clean lyrics, and she did not build a career on dressing like a prostitute or releasing sex tapes. Already that makes her quite unique in that industry.

      Not everyone likes pop music of course, but in that genre she is definitely top shelf, and her fight against bad music streaming deals is in line with pretty much everything she does. This is not U2 phony or Metallica greedy, this is someone using leveraging her position to help fellow musicians.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    3. Re:that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Translation: AC doesn't like her music, is hip and superior.
      Translated Translation: AC secretly likes her music, feels guilty about it.

    4. Re: that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Lady Gaga music is better. At least I remember her songs.

    5. Re: that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Metallica greedy" .....how is wanting to be paid for your product, greedy?

    6. Re:that's funny... by jetkust · · Score: 4, Funny

      Taylor Swift is shocked and disappointed at how pretentious that was.

    7. Re: that's funny... by cyber-vandal · · Score: 0

      Something out someone cannot be quite unique. It's an absolute. She's either unique or she isn't. You mean quite unusual.

    8. Re: that's funny... by imgod2u · · Score: 2

      The argument isn't about being paid or not but rather, how much. Apple isn't refusing to pay at all. But simply treating royalty as "if we get money, you get money". I see nothing wrong with this model.

    9. Re: that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      So if Apple offered a 1 year free trial, at no cost to them since they aren't paying royalties...what's stopping them from a 2 year trial? I guess the labels wouldn't have signed on for that. 3 months isn't much, but still not fair to musicians who aren't getting paid.

      We all know how Apple likes getting paid.

    10. Re: that's funny... by therufus · · Score: 1

      It's not the artists who implemented the deal. Imagine if a retailer of CD'S gave away physical media for the first month they opened. They would have to pay for those disc's up front.

      --
      You moved your mouse. Please restart Windows for changes to take effect.
    11. Re: that's funny... by jd2112 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Metallica greedy is when you sue your fans.
      I used to like Metalica but i haven't listened to them since they started suing fans.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    12. Re: that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Wrong. Gaga's songs are quite forgettable; it's her outfits that stick in one's memory. Kinda like the way seeing one's grandparents having sex sticks in your memory.

    13. Re:that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She is a pop-country singer that comes up on a regular basis with catchy tunes with clean lyrics, and she did not build a career on dressing like a prostitute or releasing sex tapes.

      And that's good... why?

    14. Re:that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      She is a pop-country singer that comes up on a regular basis with catchy tunes with clean lyrics, and she did not build a career on dressing like a prostitute or releasing sex tapes. Already that makes her quite unique in that industry.

      Who dresses like a prostitute or releases a sex-tape in the pop-country industry? Clean cut, pretty people with pleasant but not amazing voices are pretty much the cookie cutter pattern for country artists. They're all like that, especially the women. The men have a little more leeway to be less clean cut and pretty, but they usually start out that way.

      Searching finds Mindy McCready, but her sex tape came out when her career was dying if not dead. Well past where Swift is now.

      her fight against bad music streaming deals is in line with pretty much everything she does. This is not U2 phony or Metallica greedy, this is someone using leveraging her position to help fellow musicians.

      If she wants to protect the little people in the music industry, she should offer to allow Apple to use her music royalty-free for six months if they pay new artists during the three month free period. Or just devote the royalties from her albums to promoting new artists. Keeping her album out while allowing the three month test to move forward makes the project less likely to be successful and more likely for new and upcoming artists to lose their investment from allowing their works to be included.

      But because it is in fact about her, she won't do that. She'll just send out lying press releases.

      Just watch. After the three month period is over, she'll let her album go into the project and start getting paid. Without sharing the risk of the free trial.

    15. Re:that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't agree much with the implicit slut shaming, but I'm with you in applauding her standing in for the less successful artists. And I could see Apple changing their minds with that - this is the kind of negative PR that they don't need right now.

    16. Re:that's funny... by tompaulco · · Score: 0

      I'm not a TS fan, in fact I don't even know what her voice sounds like, but it sounds like she's sticking up for her less successful fellow musicians here.

      That is certainly one way to look at it.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    17. Re:that's funny... by tompaulco · · Score: 3, Informative

      She is a pop-country singer that comes up on a regular basis with catchy tunes with clean lyrics, and she did not build a career on dressing like a prostitute or releasing sex tapes

      That's true, at least she keeps a clean image, but her songs pretty much carry on the stereotype that a woman's existence is defined by her boyfriend or lack thereof.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    18. Re: that's funny... by gnasher719 · · Score: 2

      So if Apple offered a 1 year free trial, at no cost to them since they aren't paying royalties...what's stopping them from a 2 year trial? I guess the labels wouldn't have signed on for that. 3 months isn't much, but still not fair to musicians who aren't getting paid.

      One, it doesn't cost Apple nothing. The cost of the implementation is carried 100% by Apple.

      Two, what you say would make sense if Apple's intent was to rip off musicians. Apple's intent is to maximise profit from Apple Music. Apple believes that a three month trial period, followed by people hopefully paying $9.99 a month for the rest of their lives, maximises profit. Since Apple and musicians share the money, that would also optimise income for the musicians. Now Apple may have this wrong, and zero months free trial as Taylor Swift says is optimal. Nobody suggest that 12 or 24 months is optimal.

    19. Re: that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "One, it doesn't cost Apple nothing. The cost of the implementation is carried 100% by Apple. "

      The cost of running a store is carried 100% by that store. That doesn't mean they can sell goods without reimbursing their suppliers.

    20. Re:that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >She is a pop-country singer that comes up on a regular basis with catchy tunes with clean lyrics

      Max Martin wrote most of 1989. He is a 43-year old Swede. The music today is all manufactured and tuned, like a McDonald's hamburger for your ears.

      Martin has written many albums for pop singers, and is responsible for a good many of the songs you might think that others wrote.

      http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/12/01/sound-sweden

    21. Re: that's funny... by PNutts · · Score: 1

      The argument isn't about being paid or not but rather, how much. Apple isn't refusing to pay at all. But simply treating royalty as "if we get money, you get money". I see nothing wrong with this model.

      What TFA did you read because it isn't related to the topic of this article/conversation.

    22. Re:that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The very same thing could be said about men singing.

      Truth is that kind of music sells. People like to hear music they can relate to and what better thing to sing about than the never ending (especially in present society where nobody settles down) quest of love and rejection. You however turn it around and call it a "stereotype that woman's existence is defined by her boyfriend or lack thereof." What on earth? I'd really love to know your thinking pattern to reach such a mind bending conclusion. It's so absurd my brain can't even process it.

      Also, what do you suggest people sign about? Trees? Nature? Happiness? A day at the ranch? Technology? Do you honestly believe any option you can think of would sell more than the very raison d'etre many people (both men and women) struggle to every single day? You have to also take into account her target audience. Remember music have demographics with different interests.

    23. Re: that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you're acquiring their or anyone else's music without paying for it, you're not a fan - you're a freeloading, (and to turn the tables right back around on you, greedy) leech.

    24. Re: that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They are using someone elses work to build up a potential revenue stream and promote their offering for themselves. What if I was giving out NFL tee shirts to customers of my new shirt store but not paying for real licensed shirts? Hell, other music streaming businesses are losing money hand over fist month after month but let they still have to pay royalties.

      I don't like Apple business practice of providing customers only calculated options and features based strictly on their profitability (similar to Sony intentions but they were never quite able to make it work) and I do not like the way music is licensed and copyright rules but it is interesting to watch two massive entities involved in a power struggle.

    25. Re:that's funny... by Gryle · · Score: 4, Interesting
      To be fair, men are subject to similar stereotypes. "You're not married? Why aren't you out chasing tail?" "You're out chasing tail? Why haven't you settled down yet?" For better or worse, mating and its rituals are a pretty big part in any human society, no matter what your gender is.

      From an NPR interview with Ms Swift:

      Interviewer: Like I said, I am the mother of a 12-year-old girl, and she loves your music. Her friends love your music. You have a huge platform among a very vulnerable, impressionable set of the population. And I wonder if you think about turning your lens outward, turning it away from the diary page, and sending a broader message to girls who would be really receptive to hearing about big ideas and the big world that's outside.
      Swift: Like what kind of messages?
      Interviewer: Well, other characters. I don't mean to minimize the effect of a love song or a pop song. But do you ever think about writing about other experiences, things that might turn girls away from themselves in a different way?
      Swift: There's nothing that's gonna turn girls away from themselves at age 12...I think the best thing I can do for them is continue to write songs that do make them think about themselves and analyze how they feel about something and then simplify how they feel. Because, at that age — really at any age, but mostly that age — what can be so overwhelming is that you're feeling so many things at the same time that it's hard to actually understand what those emotions are, so it can turn to anxiety very quickly.

      I'm not a fan of Ms Swift's music (I'm not a 12-year-old girl) but I do have a healthy amount of respect for the way she conducts herself in public.

      --
      Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely sure about the universe - Einstein
    26. Re:that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's a hint: she comes from money....

      Why yes. I do know people that went to school with her and saw the exploits of that money firsthand, and why her early career is deceptive, why do you ask?

    27. Re:that's funny... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well, I guess they are never ever getting back together, then.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    28. Re:that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Taylor begs to differ:
      http://taylorswift.com/media/photos/42793/2275243

    29. Re: that's funny... by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      This situation is not quite the same, because the Apple site is streaming, not downloading, its content. Users can't just grab all the music they can during the trial period and then keep it.

    30. Re:that's funny... by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Funny

      Also, what do you suggest people sign about? Trees? Nature? Happiness? A day at the ranch?

      There'll only ever be one John Denver, I guess.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    31. Re: that's funny... by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you're acquiring their or anyone else's music without paying for it, you're not a fan - you're a freeloading, (and to turn the tables right back around on you, greedy) leech.

      You mean like before the members of Metallica "made it", and used to dub tapes instead of paying for them? Hypocrisy is the greatest luxury.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    32. Re: that's funny... by theCzechGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Since the property of being memorable or forgettable is very subjective, I don't see how anyone can be wrong about it.

    33. Re: that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're not selling. There are three months during which you are allowed to listen to the records inside the store for free and $9.95 a month thereafter.

      The records were donated by the record companies that hold rights to the artists' music and/or the right to represent those artists.

    34. Re: that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean like how it's the artists' call about when or whether they should be compensated for the provision of their goods and services?

      Entitlement is the greatest luxury.

    35. Re: that's funny... by godel_56 · · Score: 1

      This situation is not quite the same, because the Apple site is streaming, not downloading, its content. Users can't just grab all the music they can during the trial period and then keep it.

      I don't stream or download music, but a search for "record streaming audio" brings up a lot of results. I'd be surprised if at least a few of them didn't work.

    36. Re:that's funny... by UnixUnix · · Score: 1

      Not to mention her forays into information security https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    37. Re: that's funny... by UnixUnix · · Score: 1

      ah, when the suit hit the fan

    38. Re:that's funny... by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      Also, what do you suggest people sign about? Trees? Nature? Happiness? A day at the ranch? Technology? Do you honestly believe any option you can think of would sell more than the very raison d'etre many people (both men and women) struggle to every single day?

      Brave by Sarah Bareilles comes to mind as a song that is popular and doesn't have to be about boys. She is encouraging a second party to speak their mind.
      On the other hand, Roar by Katy Perry (which sounds almost exactly like Brave) is all about Katy, Katy, Katy and how her boyfriend keeps her down.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    39. Re: that's funny... by macs4all · · Score: 1

      So if Apple offered a 1 year free trial, at no cost to them since they aren't paying royalties...what's stopping them from a 2 year trial? I guess the labels wouldn't have signed on for that. 3 months isn't much, but still not fair to musicians who aren't getting paid.

      We all know how Apple likes getting paid.

      Three months (from one source of many) certainly isn't much; but if you read the memes of (mostly) indie artists, you'd think Apple was literally reaching into their bank accounts and vacuuming out all if their cash.

    40. Re: that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still, likely something most people won't do. It would be much faster torrent.

    41. Re:that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I guess they are never ever getting back together, then.

      At least we know what her next breakup song is going to be about.

    42. Re: that's funny... by macs4all · · Score: 0

      "One, it doesn't cost Apple nothing. The cost of the implementation is carried 100% by Apple. "

      The cost of running a store is carried 100% by that store. That doesn't mean they can sell goods without reimbursing their suppliers.

      So, stores don't have a "right" to offer discounts, or have promotional campaigns?

      And do the (mostly) indie artists, who ought to be tickled-pink that ANYONE is giving their music a listen, rather than the mainstream artists everyone knows about, are choosing to whine incessantly about a ONE-TIME, THREE MONTH period, where a few dozen people may want to LISTEN to their song for free?

      They obviously don't understand how radio works (RIP Phil Austin), in that, when people are exposed to new music, some percentage of those people will then seek out other material from that same artist, and a new fan (IOW a repeat, paying customer) is born.

      And oh, BTW, with broadcast music over the airwaves, anyone with a tape recorder could "steal" as much music for which they had the tape to record, And almost NOBODY threatened to "boycott" the thousands of radio stations that were aiding and abetting this potentially rampant piracy.

      What short-sighted, greedy little simpletons. They DESERVE to have their music ignored into obscurity.

    43. Re: that's funny... by macs4all · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't like Apple

      There. For the benefit of all Slashdot readers, I have edited the irrelevant words for your post.

    44. Re: that's funny... by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You mean like how it's the artists' call about when or whether they should be compensated for the provision of their goods and services?

      The members of Metallica didn't respect this alleged right when they were young, why should anyone else?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    45. Re:that's funny... by macs4all · · Score: 0

      If she wants to protect the little people in the music industry, she should offer to allow Apple to use her music royalty-free for six months if they pay new artists during the three month free period. Or just devote the royalties from her albums to promoting new artists. Keeping her album out while allowing the three month test to move forward makes the project less likely to be successful and more likely for new and upcoming artists to lose their investment from allowing their works to be included.

      This. Exactly this.

      If the Swiftie was REALLY interested in using her celebrity-status to help less-popular, unsigned (Indie) artists, she would gladly donate her material for the first 3 months for free, so that more may come for her music, and "accidentally" also be exposed to the artists she professes to care for so much.

      Keep in mind, Taylor, that in time, you too will be relegated to the cutout bin of music history, and will be THRILLED to hear of ANYONE playing your music. Then, perhaps you will understand the concept of "Penny wise and Pound foolish".

    46. Re: that's funny... by krups+gusto · · Score: 0

      Strangely consumers haven't been trained yet to make their purchases at the same rate forever after an album is launched. Ie, an album released during the three months is taking a larger hit than yoko ono is.

    47. Re: that's funny... by dgatwood · · Score: 2

      Nonsense. Unique means that something is one of a kind. Suppose that you have a figurine, and there is exactly one other figurine in the world that is like it. If something happens to the other one, your figurine will become unique. Therefore, yours is almost unique, because you haven't found your hammer yet. After you do, it will be unique. :-D

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    48. Re: that's funny... by larwe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're so missing the point. There are *ALREADY* about seventeen billion ways those artists can get their free, no-royalties-paid exposure to the public; Spotify's free tier, Youtube, various other Internet streaming/radio sites, etc. Apple is trying to muscle its way into the internet streaming music business and build credibility for its brand. They are trying to get their marketing budget for free by riding the artists. It is APPLE that is trying to break into a new market, not the artists - it is Apple that should pay the royalties for those trial periods.

    49. Re: that's funny... by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Strangely consumers haven't been trained yet to make their purchases at the same rate forever after an album is launched. Ie, an album released during the three months is taking a larger hit than yoko ono is.

      So you are assuming that they will only have one popular song in their entire career, right?

    50. Re:that's funny... by dj245 · · Score: 2

      She is a pop-country singer that comes up on a regular basis with catchy tunes with clean lyrics, and she did not build a career on dressing like a prostitute or releasing sex tapes. Already that makes her quite unique in that industry.

      Not everyone likes pop music of course, but in that genre she is definitely top shelf, and her fight against bad music streaming deals is in line with pretty much everything she does. This is not U2 phony or Metallica greedy, this is someone using leveraging her position to help fellow musicians.

      Taylor Swift's vocal range is among the narrowest of any pop artist in the last 20 years. Many of her songs sound almost monotone to me. Vocal range may not be the only indication of a talented singer, but someone with a very narrow range doesn't seem to me like a 'top shelf' performer.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    51. Re: that's funny... by macs4all · · Score: 1

      You're so missing the point. There are *ALREADY* about seventeen billion ways those artists can get their free, no-royalties-paid exposure to the public; Spotify's free tier, Youtube, various other Internet streaming/radio sites, etc. Apple is trying to muscle its way into the internet streaming music business and build credibility for its brand. They are trying to get their marketing budget for free by riding the artists. It is APPLE that is trying to break into a new market, not the artists - it is Apple that should pay the royalties for those trial periods.

      Ok; so I've got a solution that should please everyone who's whining: Apple allows any Indie Artist to opt-into a program where their music isn't available, nor played, on Apple Music during the Free Trial Period. Then, after the 3-month period expires, everything reverts to normal for that artist on Apple Music.

      However, in return, the Artist also allows Apple to list their name on a Web Page explaining that the Artist chose not to participate in the Apple Music Trial Offer; but to check back after the Trial is over.

      Everybody should be happy, right?

      That is, unless the Trial Period pertains to each individual user's sign up date, in which case, nevermind!

    52. Re:that's funny... by lucm · · Score: 1

      Vocal range may not be the only indication of a talented singer, but someone with a very narrow range doesn't seem to me like a 'top shelf' performer.

      On tv shows like The Voice or American Idol there's endless waves of singers with terrific vocal ranges, yet they never make it in the music industry. It is also not uncommon to have backing vocalists that have more vocal range than the front liner, or to have cover bands with better skills than the original band.

      Good music is not perfect pitch or crazy skills. It's a mix of various qualities that is very difficult to pinpoint and analyze. That's why labels that put together bands matching the flavor of the week rarely succeed. And that's why computers don't create good music (by themselves).

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    53. Re:that's funny... by lucm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If she wants to protect the little people in the music industry, she should offer to allow Apple to use her music royalty-free for six months if they pay new artists during the three month free period.

      This. Exactly this.

      What you describe is basically Taylor Swift (estimated net worth: 200 millions) bankrolling Apple (estimated net worth: 700 billions) because unlike them she cares about poor musicians.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    54. Re: that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple can afford to buy the whole music industry with cash on hand. Apple doesn't need to exploit the artists and labels to have enough money to get through that period of no revenue.

    55. Re: that's funny... by hjf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I own a store. If I want to make a promotional campaign or whatever, it goes out of MY POCKET. You know what will happen if I tell my suppliers "I gave this away because it was a promo, so I won't pay you for it?"

    56. Re: that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Metallica greedy is when you sue your fans.

      I used to like Metalica but i haven't listened to them since they started suing fans.

      They sued thieves. Fans don;t steal music. Thieves steal music. How don't you get that?

    57. Re: that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      because two wrongs make a right?

      Go on ahead and steal your cable or electric while you are at it I guess....

    58. Re:that's funny... by KGIII · · Score: 1

      He is probably a man who is okay with menstruation. I suppose that one can guess what series I am watching again.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    59. Re: that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong.

    60. Re:that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She sings what people wants to buy. This does not have to be true. Maybe she's a lesbian, or she's in a long term relationship with a TS. Who knows ?

    61. Re:that's funny... by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      Unless you are a 4 year old girl not only is your opinion irrelevant, even having an opinion makes me think less of you.

    62. Re:that's funny... by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      I don't get why people hate Taylor Swift so much. I'm from a heavy metal background so not into pop music, but out of all the bubblegum trash on the radio she stands out as a star to me. Her songs are catchy and original (for that genre), she writes them herself, and as you say doesn't have to resort to cheapening herself like so many of her peers to stay in the public eye. And based on this she has a brain on her too. We'll never get rid of pop music, so I'd much rather 10 more Taylor Swifts than any more Beyonce, Katy, Iggy, Aria, Nicky clones...

    63. Re:that's funny... by sonamchauhan · · Score: 1

      thanks kanye!

    64. Re: that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Spotify closes their doors, it will slightly sting the labels.. For a minute...

    65. Re: that's funny... by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      There's EVERYTHING wrong with this model. Apple uses its dominant position to undercut competition which can't just strong-arm musicians into allowing them to provide a 'free 3-month trial'. This is kind of behavior which is called 'damping' and is illegal.

    66. Re:that's funny... by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 2

      Dude, she's a young girl singing about boyfriends, what the fuck do you think she should be singing about? Climate Change or the Asian Century? If you looking for a role model of Women's suffrage, maybe look a little further afield than the Top 40 charts...

    67. Re:that's funny... by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      Vocal range may not be the only indication of a talented singer, but someone with a very narrow range doesn't seem to me like a 'top shelf' performer.

      The entire catalog of Rock Music history consists of 3 chords. The Arts have always been about expression over technical superiority.

    68. Re: that's funny... by gsslay · · Score: 2

      I'm going to give your work away for nothing. You'll get nothing, but it's ok because I'm getting nothing too. I'm fine with this because I'm already insanely rich. Your financial position does not concern me.

      What you complaining about? This is a valid model.

    69. Re:that's funny... by gsslay · · Score: 2

      If she wants to protect the little people in the music industry, she should offer to allow Apple to use her music royalty-free for six months if they pay new artists during the three month free period.

      A pathetically naive solution. Who gets to pick who is "little" and "new"? What if you're a just a bit bigger than "little" and just a bit older than "new"? Tough luck, you get to help multi-millionaire company Apple build a new business for themselves, at no recompense.

      There is always a problem when people try to draw an artificial line, where the rules totally change, in the middle of a market. Because there is always someone who falls on just the wrong side of the line that gets hammered, while someone else, practically identical, on the other side of the line reaps the benefits.

      Without sharing the risk of the free trial.

      Why should she feel obliged to share any risk with Apple? It's not her business venture. She's doing just fine without it.

    70. Re: that's funny... by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      because two wrongs make a right?

      First, show that it was wrong once.

      Go on ahead and steal your cable or electric while you are at it I guess....

      Theft requires that someone be deprived of something. If you get cable without paying, you are using some of the power output of the cable system, it costs them something to provide you that even when the programming is broadcast. Same for electrical power. But if I make a copy of a piece of music, nobody is deprived of anything, and therefore no theft has occurred. Once you realize that, you'll spew a lot less nonsense.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    71. Re: that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least I know the tunes of some of lady gaga well known songs. I dun know how lady gaga looks like. I dun even know how some of my favorite singers looks like (Like Julianne Regan, Johnette Napolitano, etc) or how their lives are like. It is hard to find time when you are anonymous coward in slashdot.

    72. Re: that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is an Apple marketing tactic and Apple is passing the cost on to tbe artist. If Apple wants a zero pay scheme they should consider the cost of paying the artists intheir marketing budget.

      If a retail store decided to give away Apple products for 3 months and pass the cost along to Apple do you think Apple would cooperate?

    73. Re: that's funny... by tofarr · · Score: 1

      You hit the nail on the head - If I had mod points they would be yours!

    74. Re:that's funny... by N1AK · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Keeping her album out while allowing the three month test to move forward makes the project less likely to be successful and more likely for new and upcoming artists to lose their investment from allowing their works to be included.

      Well you sure got proven wrong pretty damn quickly.

      Apple wanted to give away someone else's product for 3 months in order to drive demand for its own product. It really doesn't take a genius to work out why the people Apple was trying to exploit didn't like the idea; to Apple's credit they caught on and changed policy pretty damn quickly.

    75. Re:that's funny... by N1AK · · Score: 2

      That's exactly what it is; it's an idiotic position but a combination of Apple fanboyism and wannabe hipster disdain for Swift seems to be enough for some people to believe it.

    76. Re: that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its funny how sticking up for the little guy looks like sticking up for herself. Is there a quote of her saying she was doing this for independent musicians?

    77. Re: that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well she's not exactly sacrificing anything to help others, is she? If she wants to claim she's doing this for anyone but herself, there will be an extra weight on her to prove that she really cares.

      It's hard to tell the difference between her being selfish and altruistic. So I don't think she deserves too much credit.

    78. Re: that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have a religion-like delusion. No matter what anyone says to you, you will continue to pretend to not understand. You will continue to rationalize getting things for free just because you want it to be that way.

      So, with full knowledge that this will be waste of my time, your time and the time of everyone else who reads this, I offer you the following:

      if I make a copy of a piece of music, nobody is deprived of anything

      The artists who put in the effort to write, record and promote the fucking music you're deriving pleasure from consuming were deprived of their just compensation owed by you.

      The members of Metallica didn't respect this alleged right when they were young, why should anyone else?

      Should a software engineer who pirated games as a teenager work for free as an adult?

      As said previously, delusions cannot be reasoned away. There is no need to reply. Have a nice day.

    79. Re: that's funny... by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2

      But simply treating royalty as "if we get money, you get money". I see nothing wrong with this model.

      Really? Apple has more money than any other company. They have a new streaming service. They want customers to use their service, because it's going to make money for Apple. The product that Apple is selling through this service is created by other people not affiliated with Apple. Apple, the most profitable company, has volunteered all of those creators for 3 months of not making any money in order for customers to sign up for Apple's service so that Apple can make even more money in the future. You don't see a problem with that? How about this: if Apple wants to not charge customers for 3 months for trying their service, how about that cost comes out of Apple's pocket instead of all of the creators? Your idea of royalties means that I can publicly perform any copyrighted work, and as long as I'm not making any money from doing so, everything is just fine. What do you think the content industry thinks of a model like that?

      Like she says, Taylor Swift isn't personally going to be hurt very much by this, either way. But what about the new band getting ready to release their big single, and the release date happens to coincide with Apple's free trial? That band was counting on success from this single, but now Apple decides that they don't get paid for any plays through their service? How is that fair to the band? You see "nothing wrong with this model", so how is that fair? Why should Apple ask that band to take 3 months of income off the table when, again, Apple is the most profitable company ever? If Apple is selling their new service, why aren't they paying the costs of the free trial?

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    80. Re: that's funny... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You have a religion-like delusion.

      Yes. I keep thinking that if I explain things in very small words, you will eventually get it. Pretty sad, really.

      The artists who put in the effort to write, record and promote the fucking music you're deriving pleasure from consuming were deprived of their just compensation owed by you.

      No. I did not contract them to create the work. They chose to do so, on the assumption that enough people would pay for it for them to succeed. But if enough people wouldn't have done that even if they would have had to pay to get it, and would have gone without instead, then they have been deprived of exactly nothing.

      This is what you are apparently missing: If I would have gone without instead of paying for a piece of media, the creator is not deprived of anything no matter how many times I consume it without paying. You do not have a right to profit from your creations.

      Should a software engineer who pirated games as a teenager work for free as an adult?

      Why not? I thought you believed in consequences.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    81. Re: that's funny... by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2

      And do the (mostly) indie artists, who ought to be tickled-pink that ANYONE is giving their music a listen

      Oh, that argument again, huh? Hey assholes, you should be THANKING us for stealing your product and using it to enrich our lives at all!

      You're an entitled prick. What about the band who went into debt in order to record their first album, and it's getting ready to be released, and the songs are good, and people will listen regardless of whatever Apple does, so they are expecting a quick surge in royalties when it gets released in order to pay off that debt and help launch their career. Now they get to stay in debt because Apple volunteered them for free plays? Wow, thanks Apple! But hey, make sure you thank Apple for letting you stay in debt, you miserable little greedy fucking simpleton musicians!

      Again, you're a dick. You should be thanking the artists for creating the music that you choose to listen to, not the other way around.

      By the way, I don't own a Mac. I can see by your username that you think everyone should, so you should buy one for me from my local Apple store, and THANK ME for bothering to try it at all!

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    82. Re: that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you can't figure out how this comment is utterly stupid (it is) then it cannot be explained to you in a way that your pea brain could parse into a valuable narrative.

    83. Re: that's funny... by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Strangely consumers haven't been trained yet to make their purchases at the same rate forever after an album is launched. Ie, an album released during the three months is taking a larger hit than yoko ono is.

      So you are assuming that they will only have one popular song in their entire career, right?

      That is just coming out on June 30th, too.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    84. Re: that's funny... by stoned_ritual · · Score: 1

      I don't stream or download music, but a search for "record streaming audio" brings up a lot of results. I'd be surprised if at least a few of them didn't work.

      As a repair technician, I can confirm that 100 percent of all people download and install "youtube downloaders" and "spotify downloaders" whether or not those utilities actually work is unknown, as they are usually just a package to deliver the virus of the week.

    85. Re:that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While that is funny, it still took this person to point out to apple that they can't take their and her product and offer it to users for free because that's what they were going to do. She did the right thing. She protected her IP and her ability to make money from an egregious form of giveaway at her and other artists expense. Good for her I say.

    86. Re: that's funny... by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      This situation is not quite the same, because the Apple site is streaming, not downloading, its content. Users can't just grab all the music they can during the trial period and then keep it.

      I don't stream or download music, but a search for "record streaming audio" brings up a lot of results. I'd be surprised if at least a few of them didn't work.

      In which case the artists loses royalties for one play of their song getting recorded, not for dozens or more they claim. Maybe they should really worry about all the money they already lost to that instead?

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    87. Re:that's funny... by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      >She is a pop-country singer that comes up on a regular basis with catchy tunes with clean lyrics

      Max Martin wrote most of 1989. He is a 43-year old Swede. The music today is all manufactured and tuned, like a McDonald's hamburger for your ears.

      Martin has written many albums for pop singers, and is responsible for a good many of the songs you might think that others wrote.

      http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/12/01/sound-sweden

      What's your point? That music was better back when everything was written by Irving Berlin instead of one Swede?

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    88. Re: that's funny... by macs4all · · Score: 1

      You're an entitled prick.

      Actually, I'm a musician.

      Now what?

    89. Re: that's funny... by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      Now what? How about your license that allows you to speak for every other musician out there?

      You think you're the only musician?

      You can be a musician AND an entitled prick at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    90. Re: that's funny... by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Now what? How about your license that allows you to speak for every other musician out there?

      You think you're the only musician?

      You can be a musician AND an entitled prick at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive.

      Really? I never would have guessed that.

      And oh, BTW, as an attorney (guessing by your UserID), you probably do know the definition of the term "Moot".

      And that's what this argument is; since Apple decided to pay the Artists during the "Trial" period, anyway.

      So, you must just like arguing for argument's sake. Not a very good trait in a lawyer.

    91. Re: that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK, how about you guys working for free for the next three months, then let me know what you think.

      Didn't think so.

    92. Re: that's funny... by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      And that's what this argument is; since Apple decided to pay the Artists during the "Trial" period, anyway.

      Since you're no longer debating the actual question, I'll take this statement as a concession that you don't want to try to defend your earlier position. Yes, Apple decided they were wrong and switched their stance. Apparently you have also. I'm not an attorney, but I did win this one by virtue of no one defending it.

      So, you must just like arguing for argument's sake. Not a very good trait in a lawyer.

      You don't think so? Millennia of philosophers might disagree with you.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    93. Re: that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you should be an ambassador to somebody who needs a good one.

    94. Re:that's funny... by Talderas · · Score: 1

      The width of one's vocal range is meaningful only to answer the question on whether one can sing a particular piece of music. Beyond that it's relatively pointless.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    95. Re: that's funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [your entire post]

      See prior comment about deliberately pretending to not understand. Or hell, maybe you really are dense enough to not understand such basic concepts. I could have a modicum of respect for you if you'd just say "I just want to get shit for free, and fuck it all."

      Maybe you'd understand better if a sock puppet or coloring book were to explain it to you.

  3. Who's Taylor Swift? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is she related to Borat?

  4. Apple Should Pay - It's Advertising by pubwvj · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Apple really needs to write off the cost as part of their marketing plan. This three months free is their advertising cost and should not be shouldered by the performers.

    1. Re:Apple Should Pay - It's Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It all comes down to money. Apple wants more money and thinks that they can get away with not paying the singers. The singers want to make more money and think that Apple should charge its customers on their behalf.

      Bottom line - Apple is within its rights to ask singers to give away their music for Apple's benefit, and the singers are within their rights to decline that offer. There is nothing shocking going on here - its just business as usual (with everyone trying to make more money from someone else).

    2. Re:Apple Should Pay - It's Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And so is it advertising for music and it's performers. It's not a one-way argument. After those 3 months the musicians will make a pretty penny as Apple is paying more than any other streaming service AFAIK. And it's not as if Apple wouldn't have costs in those three months. The large scale infrastructure doesn't come cheap.

    3. Re:Apple Should Pay - It's Advertising by rmdingler · · Score: 0
      Oh yes. And in this matrix, if the big ticket musicians like Taylor Swift balk at the take-it-or-leave-it deal, there is a much better chance of everyone getting paid.

      I can't believe these words are exiting my IP:

      Good job, Taylor!

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    4. Re:Apple Should Pay - It's Advertising by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      That artist should pay - They're advertising!

      Apple should not pay a royalty. The should pay the artist the advertised price and skim off a small commission for the service.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    5. Re:Apple Should Pay - It's Advertising by Rob+Y. · · Score: 1

      I imagine Swift's reluctance has something to do with having a high-flying album still on the charts that will probably not be selling anywhere near as well 3 months from now. It's one thing to give out free introductory samples of, say, nachos expecting that to drum up more customers who will be hungry for them next week. But in this case the performers being asked to give away their product are giving away something that's time-limited for them. Sure, Apple will still have more music to sell 3 months from now, but Swift will have to go back to her bedroom and come up with more silly, catchy hits - and may well not be able to.

      --
      Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    6. Re: Apple Should Pay - It's Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The artists should be the one paying Apple for the advertisement. I will probably be trying out Apple music and will buy some music if I like them. I have stopped listening to the radio so this is the only exposure the artists will get. And I don't think that I am unique in this situation.

      I just see this as another rich b**** b****ing. Her music is really forgettable so she is not going to get anything from me.

    7. Re:Apple Should Pay - It's Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An additional problem is that Apple also wants a share of the cake later on. When people pay whatever a month it costs, Apple wants to keep some of that money as well. For doing basically nothing. I won't pay one single cent for any kind of service related to music.

    8. Re:Apple Should Pay - It's Advertising by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      It all comes down to money. Apple wants more money and thinks that they can get away with not paying the singers

      So Apple is like every major record label in the last sixty years.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    9. Re: Apple Should Pay - It's Advertising by davecombs · · Score: 2

      It's not that musicians want Apple to charge customers on their behalf, it's that musicians want Apple to pay them for Apple using their music, whatever Apple wants to do with it. There is a big difference between the two.

    10. Re:Apple Should Pay - It's Advertising by vilanye · · Score: 1

      I am not sure what she is whining about, the RIAA members give very little money to the artists, using the term artist very loosely as it rarely describes RIAA acts, especially bland, uninspired crap like Taylor Swift.

      Many acts are in debt to a major label even after a moderately successful album.

      She should be used to getting reamed without lube.

    11. Re:Apple Should Pay - It's Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I imagine Swift's reluctance has something to do with having a high-flying album still on the charts that will probably not be selling anywhere near as well 3 months from now. It's one thing to give out free introductory samples of, say, nachos expecting that to drum up more customers who will be hungry for them next week. But in this case the performers being asked to give away their product are giving away something that's time-limited for them. Sure, Apple will still have more music to sell 3 months from now, but Swift will have to go back to her bedroom and come up with more silly, catchy hits - and may well not be able to.

      If music that you enjoy now won't be enjoyed in 3 months then that music is shit.
      Great classics are classics that transcend time because they're good music. Think Chopin, Beethoven, The Beatles, Pink Floyd even some albums from Madonna. Music that you forget in 3 months is shit, fast food music that will not stand the test of time. So with all due respect, Swift Taylor you can go fuck yourself.

    12. Re:Apple Should Pay - It's Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No they aren't. Advertising is letting people know something exists and explains why the customer should part way with their money for said advertised good. Apple is simply giving the product away for 3 months and wanting the manufacturer to foot the bill. If apple wants to pay for 3 months to get people to use their service, that's on them. But to tell the people who make what apple is selling that they are required to give their work away for three months, that's not so good. And throw in that in most cases the artists themselves don't get a say because their label, who also doesn't have a problem losing three months revenue, made the decision without their input, it becomes a bit more shitty.

      And when you inevitably say they shouldn't use a label, let's put it like this. Lets say the company you work for is going to give away it's products for three months, and as a result they aren't going to pay you for that time, how would you feel? If they want to give it away for three months, that's fine, but me personally, unless I get to say if I'm fine losing three months pay, I wouldn't be okay with that either.

    13. Re:Apple Should Pay - It's Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great classics are classics that transcend time because they're good music. Think Chopin, Beethoven, The Beatles, Pink Floyd even some albums from Madonna.

      Who's "Madonna"?

    14. Re:Apple Should Pay - It's Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you mean being an ass-hole has definitely become new normal, and there's nothing shocking about it because it's just business as usual?

    15. Re:Apple Should Pay - It's Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that is why Apple is dying without Jobs. The current management is clueless.

      Sure, they have a bunch of ideas he left them but eventually they will run out and the reckoning will come just like it did when Jobs left previously. The company has no hope for survival in the long run.

    16. Re:Apple Should Pay - It's Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, on the other hand Apple provides a service with unseen potential. I'm sure artists will benefit in the long run. Don't you?

    17. Re:Apple Should Pay - It's Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can also see it the opposite way though. It's not marketing for Apple's service, it's marketing for the Artist's music, and getting someone who would otherwise pirate their music to pay for it 3 months down the line.

      Thus, clearly the artist should pay for that advertising.

    18. Re: Apple Should Pay - It's Advertising by jsepeta · · Score: 1

      Apple isn't negotiating with artists, it's negotiating with labels who represent the artists. If you don't like what your label has done with your music, go indie.

      --
      Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
    19. Re:Apple Should Pay - It's Advertising by KGIII · · Score: 1

      The infrastructure and applications are nothing? Why are you even on this site? The rest of us know that these are things that take work and money. You? You are just ignorant.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    20. Re:Apple Should Pay - It's Advertising by KGIII · · Score: 1

      She should be used to getting reamed without lube.

      I clicked a link and saw her picture above. So, yeah, I think I will be willing to take care of that part. You know, for the betterment of society and whatnot.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    21. Re:Apple Should Pay - It's Advertising by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      It is bizarre asking the performers to pay for this. Do they provide free Apple Macs for businesses and not expect to get paid until the business starts making a profit?

    22. Re:Apple Should Pay - It's Advertising by houghi · · Score: 1

      They write it off AND they don't need to pay. Ever heard about Hollywood accounting? I bet they are looking to charge the artist to have it up.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  5. New Accounts every 3 months by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People will sign up for new accounts every 3 months. Go figure, to get free music.

    1. Re: New Accounts every 3 months by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Until they run out of credit cards to sign up with.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    2. Re: New Accounts every 3 months by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some banks allow you to generate temporary credit card numbers. I wonder if you can use them with this.

    3. Re: New Accounts every 3 months by godrik · · Score: 1

      Well, you can still resubscribe for a long time if the constraint is to use different credit cards. Pretty much every single store you visit nowadays wants to give you a credit card. I already have about a dozen credit card number I could use. And remember that credit card expires and send you a brand new card periodically. I seriously hope for them that a credit card is not how they plan on identifying returning users...

      Identifying users based on name, adresses and verifying the name based on credit card information seems a bit better.

    4. Re: New Accounts every 3 months by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      Apple will tie this into their normal AppleID system. You could put 50 credit cards on it, it will be three free months per AppleID account. If you want to game it to get three months of free streaming music...good luck there. It's not just web form, AppleID also ties in the devices too. Your "new ID" for that "free streaming music" won't have access to your regular Itunes, messages, cloud storage, installed apps, etc. You'll have to log out of your regular account and sign into your new one. If you screw it up, you might even loose access to your Apple device itself.

      Whomever is suggesting this as a course of action must not have any experience with the Walled Garden. I don't actually use Apple products personally, but I've been forced to support them for several years at work. The best / funniest support was a woman freaking out that her boyfriend had "hacked her phone", not realizing that everyone using the same ID across multiple devices will have access to everything like that. It's a feature of the OS...the Apple support chick and I laughed about it for awhile before she took over the client to help them "separate" it all into their own accounts, or maybe get some relationship counseling, I don't know lol.

  6. I'm sorry, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "Shoulder the cost of three months of not being paid" ??? This is a brand new service, a brand-new revenue stream. It costs her, or any of the other "less fortunate" artists, not a single dime. In fact, it will still bring those "new artists" potential income as people who like what they hear on the stream may then purchase their music.

    1. Re:I'm sorry, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Strictly speaking, anyone switching their current streaming service (which pays royalties) over to Apple would represent three months of lost revenue. Not every customer of the new streaming service will be new to streaming altogether. That said, you are correct for anyone who signs onto Apple's service who has never used a streaming service before.

      The flip side of this, however, is that Apple has over $100b in the bank. Why aren't they paying royalties and swallowing the cost to promote their service instead of trying to engage in large-scale commercial piracy?

      I can have sympathy for an individual downloading music for free, but I'm having a hard time finding any for the most valuable corporation on the planet.

    2. Re:I'm sorry, what? by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 0

      "Shoulder the cost of three months of not being paid" ??? This is a brand new service, a brand-new revenue stream. It costs her, or any of the other "less fortunate" artists, not a single dime.

      Say, I want you to come clean my house. Oh, and cut the grass, too. Don't worry, it won't cost you a single dime-- I'll provide the cleaning supplies and even buy the gas for your lawnmower.

      Of course, I'm asking you to give your work away for free, but, hey, it "won't cost you a single dime."

      I'll give you recognition! In fact, I'll tell lots of other people you will work for them for free, too!

      --
      http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    3. Re:I'm sorry, what? by iamacat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ah, the classic blunder of confusing physical goods with intellectual property.

      You can wave a magic wand to get a house cleaned. Someone is running a service where a significant portion of users sign up to pay you some change for each cleaning after a 3 month free trial. Is it really a bad deal, even if it did take you a lot of time to make your magic wand?

    4. Re:I'm sorry, what? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Apple doesn't do anything to their suppliers just because it's nice; but it is honestly a bit surprising to see them taking the gamble of attempting to shove all 100% of lost royalties onto the artist and/or their rightsholder overlord. If any significant number of artists say no, or offer only back-catalog stuff, there are going to be a lot of people spending their three month free trial learning that "Oh, Apple streaming is the one that doesn't have the songs I want." It will likely be the streaming service most conveniently integrated into your iDevice; but if the library sucks, that will only carry it so far.

      Eating the cost of the royalties during the trial period would be costly; but it would also have made cooperation from anyone not specifically pledged to exclusivity somewhere else pretty much assured. Failing to do that(or even to offer partial payment) makes their ability to deliver a decent library on launch a great deal less certain.

    5. Re: I'm sorry, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are cleaning services that provides a free complementary session. If you like their service, you can sign a package with them.

    6. Re:I'm sorry, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahh, the classic blunder of assuming that just because it isn't a physical good doesn't mean that work went in to it. Yes, IP has a one time production cost and then a very small reproduction cost, but that one time production cost is often quite large. You take an iPhone with a $120 BOM selling for $800 and say that they're making $680 per unit sold forgetting the hundreds of millions spent on the software design, testing, patent licensing hardware design contract negotiation, etc, etc, etc.

      Fact is, you're thinking of the big name artist like Taylor Swift where she recouped the one time production cost and then makes gross profit. Who this policy is going to kill however is the small artist that is barely making ends meet. The ones that don't move millions of copies. The ones that appeal to a specific subset of people. You know, the stuff that isn't mass produced crap which would fall in to the area most music lovers would call "good music" if it happens to land in their preferred genre.

    7. Re:I'm sorry, what? by bidule · · Score: 1

      Who this policy is going to kill however is the small artist that is barely making ends meet. The ones that don't move millions of copies. The ones that appeal to a specific subset of people. You know, the stuff that isn't mass produced crap which would fall in to the area most music lovers would call "good music" if it happens to land in their preferred genre.

      Why? Do you think consumers will stop listening to them after 3 months?

      Big name artists have had more than 3 months visibility to build followers. The 3 free months eat their profit . Less known artists can ride their coattails. The 3 free months helps them gains new followers.

      Or maybe you believe in broken windows and a 3-month loss won't be be worth the future gain no matter the conversion rate.

      --
      ID: the nose did not occur naturally, how would we wear glasses otherwise? (apologies to Voltaire)
    8. Re: I'm sorry, what? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      And I suspect that those free complementary sessions include the business owner paying the employees that do the work. That is more in line with what this is about - for better or worse. I do not really have an opinion on this other than the artists should have a contract that allows them to opt out of things like this if they want but the recording labels probably did not include that in their contracts.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  7. Not sure I fault Apple on this one by Digital+Valor · · Score: 1

    the RIAA (or whatever it's called) hold virtually all music at ransom until their fees are paid. Then the distributors have to take a cut to keep themselves in business (Apple, Amazon, etc). Then the music-buying public gets to pay... which they won't since they're all used to free or 99Â apps (why should quality music cost more). Or they just copy it from their friends for free? So where exactly is the rest of the money for the royalties supposed to come from. $9 per month for thousands of plays.... what's left to pay the artist? The whole business model is f'd up. Cut out the RIAA, go back to the pay-per-album model and give the money directly back to the owner(s) of the music.

    1. Re:Not sure I fault Apple on this one by mr.dreadful · · Score: 2

      The music business model has been predatory against artists since the player piano roll.

    2. Re:Not sure I fault Apple on this one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of the main reasons I haven't started paying for a streaming service is that I'm still more or less boycotting the RIAA, over 10 years after everyone else has stopped caring.

      It may be more work to pirate RIAA music I like rather than stream it, but it beats giving them any money. I'd rather just buy merchandise from bands I like, fund their kickstarter, buy independent music, and so on.

    3. Re:Not sure I fault Apple on this one by elvesrus · · Score: 1

      The problem with cutting out the RIAA to give money to the "owners" of the music is that the RIAA owns the music through the deals made to sign the artists.

    4. Re:Not sure I fault Apple on this one by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The music business model has been predatory against artists since the player piano roll.

      Correction: The music business model has been predatory against performers since the player piano roll.

      The music business has been predatory against COMPOSERS (also "artists," i'd think) since Petrucci first popularized music printing around the year 1500. You can read about the details here for example, but early music publishers and patrons generally took advantage of composers -- preferring to publish collections of "greatest hits" and getting copyright protection granting exclusive privileges to PUBLISHERS, not the artists who actually created the music. On the few occasions where composers were granted privileges in the 1500s, publishers frequently ignored them and published whatever they wanted anyway, without necessarily giving any money to composers whatsoever.

      You have to wait about 75-80 years after music printing first became popular before any composer was really granted a sort of international copyright privilege for his own works that seemed to "stick" (which was granted by the French king and the Holy Roman Emperor to Orlande de Lassus). Composers before that who tried to print their own works were sometimes sued or fined for illegal "printing without a license." (You think I'm joking... I'm not. And you think publishing cartels trying to control artists is new? It's not -- there's a VERY long tradition.)

      Anyhow, the point is that any new technology will always try to exploit artists during the period of transition. Moving music around on the internet in electronic form is barely 20 years old. It could be years or even decades before all of the "dust settles" and artists finally establish secure rights in this new medium... if ever.

  8. To Taylor, Love Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Our Users are Our Customers. Not You.

  9. apple forcing suppliers to give away product. by mikeabbott420 · · Score: 1

    This is just the sort of disruptive paradigm that all business should follow.
    We're opening a new store, to get it established you're going to give away your stuff through us.

    --
    This program was made possible by a grant from the Ultra-Humanite, and viewers like you.
    1. Re:apple forcing suppliers to give away product. by smallfries · · Score: 1

      So... basically the Compton Swap-Meet, syndicated all around the world.

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
  10. Swift by penguinoid · · Score: 4, Funny

    After all that effort Apple made promoting Swift, this is how she treats them?

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    1. Re:Swift by behrooz0az · · Score: 1

      Does it run on Linux?

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion. -- Spazmania (174582)
    2. Re:Swift by tepples · · Score: 1

      Not yet. "Later this year" (source), Apple plans to release the Swift programming language under an open source license. It'll probably take some time after that for someone to port it to GNUstep.

    3. Re:Swift by jsepeta · · Score: 1

      Awesome, Apple pwns the copyright to her surname.

      --
      Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
    4. Re:Swift by behrooz0az · · Score: 1

      lol, That wasn't a real question , but since you answered it
      GNUstep, I prefer seeing my nightmares come to life over that monstrosity of libraries.
      Really hoping they can implement it in llvm or something.

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion. -- Spazmania (174582)
  11. maybe the musicians will realize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe the musicians will realize that they don't deserve to be paid money for something as trivial as making patterns of sound-waves.

    1. Re: maybe the musicians will realize by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Do you listen to music at all?

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    2. Re: maybe the musicians will realize by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Do you program at all?

      I think you missed the funny. Of course, your post might be subtly sarcastic in which case I missed the funny.

      Life is so complicated in ASCII....

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    3. Re: maybe the musicians will realize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not much. I have anhedonia, nothing really entertains me.

    4. Re: maybe the musicians will realize by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      I'd be more interested to find out if he had a soul.

      I'm sitting here humming Beethoven's Fifth and pondering the notion that there is a human being out there somewhere who thinks it's mere patterns of sound waves.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    5. Re: maybe the musicians will realize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Comparing beethoven with Taylor Swift, rly? Compared to beethoven it really is just waves and really bad ones.

    6. Re: maybe the musicians will realize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where did they say they were comparing Beethoven to Taylor Swift. I recommend you re-read his comment. The only comparison is between Beethoven and mere patterns of sound waves.

    7. Re: maybe the musicians will realize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you program at all?

      I think you missed the funny. Of course, your post might be subtly sarcastic in which case I missed the funny.

      Life is so complicated in ASCII....

      It's even worse in UTF-16

    8. Re: maybe the musicians will realize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because you missed the joke, Swift is a new programming language by Apple that they heavily promoted during their WWDC Conference that happened last week. It was a tongue-in-cheek reference, not anything serious.

      I'd be more interested to find out if you had a damn brain. He even linked to the post talking about the reference...

  12. Don't forget by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't forget her disdain for royalties! Her affluence means she is almost totally physically incapable of comprehending the financial significance of royalty payments to most songwriters.

  13. "generous?" by mr.dreadful · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've been an Apple user for 30+ years, have done work for them, know people within the company, etc. "Generous" is not a word associated with Apple in my experience....

    1. Re:"generous?" by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

      I don't know, a cup of tea _and_ a biscuit when they wake their Chinese employees up at 3 in the morning for an 18 hour shift to accommodate another one of Steve Job's last minute whims? Seems pretty generous by today's standards.

      --
      Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    2. Re:"generous?" by smallfries · · Score: 1

      Is it a whole biscuit? That is what the hordes of Indian sub-contractors beating down that particular door want to know. Personally I would want to know if they had negotiated hobnobs in their contract, or were stuck with rich tea.

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
    3. Re:"generous?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Generous" in the sense that they're willing to let you keep the throat that's lodged under their boot, if you do exactly what they tell you to do.

    4. Re:"generous?" by Feral+Nerd · · Score: 2

      I've been an Apple user for 30+ years, have done work for them, know people within the company, etc. "Generous" is not a word associated with Apple in my experience....

      It's just capitalism inaction, the maximization of profit. Isn't that the American way? Offer artists something totally unacceptable and make them laboriously negotiate you up to something a little bit above the least they will settle for. If you have ever tried to sell something you'll recognize the tactic, you ask 20 grand buyer offers 8 grand and eventually you settle on 14. The only reason this is news is because it's Apple that's doing it and everybody around here hates Apple. Poor oppressed artists vs. spawn of Lucifer, i.e. grade A clickbait.

    5. Re:"generous?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "It's just capitalism inaction, the maximization of profit"

      Wow, what a different a space (or lack thereof) can make.

    6. Re:"generous?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      when they wake their Chinese employees up at 3 in the morning for an 18 hour shift

      How many of your electronics are not made by Foxconn? A few years ago, where you one of the ones blaming Apple for worker suicides when the workers in question were actually making XBox's for Microsoft?

    7. Re:"generous?" by mjwx · · Score: 1

      It's just capitalism inaction,

      Not sure if accidental or a deliberate and clever pun.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    8. Re:"generous?" by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      "Generous" is not a word associated with Apple in my experience....

      That's because you're not a celebrity.

      If you're an obscenely rich and famous celebrity, and your agent agrees that you will show off your Apple products to your fans, or if you're a famous reporter and your newspaper didn't make the mistake of printing iPhone-related bad news, you'll get invited to Apple's parties and you'll receive receive many of Apple's gadgets for free.

  14. As always by nospam007 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    " Swift is an artist who could afford to shoulder the cost of three months of not being paid by Apple, but she has chosen to make a stand and stick up for those who are less fortunate."

    As always when people tell us, it's not about the money, it's about the principle, it's about the money.

    1. Re: As always by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The principle is that everyone will benefit if the service is a success. Apple has tangible cost while the artists don't. But if people listen to the artists and decided to buy the artists' work, both Apple and the artists earn. As such, I don't see why Apple should be the one paying the artists. They are the ones getting the free advertisement. If artists are prepared to pay radio stations to play their songs (it happens where I live), I don't see the problems of letting people hear their songs for free for three months.

    2. Re:As always by Rinikusu · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Apple has BILLIONS in cash in the bank. LIke, ~$200 billion. And yet people think it's fair that the artists man up and shoulder the cost of a few months of streaming.

      --
      If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
    3. Re:As always by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't get a ~$200 billion bank balance by paying your fair share.
      Just sayin'.

    4. Re:As always by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suspect it has more to do with the life time value of the average subscriber.
      Apple should pay them but I suspect hte business folks have done that math and it does not come out in their favor with 3 months free

    5. Re:As always by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      And yet people think it's fair that the artists man up and shoulder the cost of a few months of streaming.

      Apple did not do this unilaterally. They approached the rightsholders who actually own the music - that is, the labels and not the artists - and proposed this arrangement. After much negotiation, everyone agreed that this was a solid plan and started moving ahead with it. How much money Apple does or doesn't have is immaterial because they could not legally do this without the consent of the people who own the material, and those people thought it was a fine idea and signed on the dotted line.

      So yes, it's perfectly fair: not because you or I think so but because the people capable of vetoing it said it is.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    6. Re:As always by srichard25 · · Score: 1

      I don't see Taylor Swift hurting for cash either. In my opinion, "popular" musicians have been overpaid relative to what value they add to society for quite some time. I won't shed a tear because Taylor Swift doesn't get paid millions for her latest "music".

    7. Re:As always by sl149q · · Score: 1

      Spotify and Pandora would immediately accuse Apple of Dumping (buying the market with low prices to drive the competition out.)

    8. Re:As always by mjwx · · Score: 1

      " Swift is an artist who could afford to shoulder the cost of three months of not being paid by Apple, but she has chosen to make a stand and stick up for those who are less fortunate."

      As always when people tell us, it's not about the money, it's about the principle, it's about the money.

      Yes, but what about the artists who aren't as big as Taylor Swift. Granted that these artists wont be making any money off recordings (they make almost all their money from touring) but the principle is still the same.

      I have to admit, I'm having a hard time feeling any sympathy for either Apple or Tailor Swift in this scenario. Apple is an evil megacorp with a serious sociopathic bend and Taylor Swift is a cookie-cutter, factory farm, mass produced pop star with no talent designed to be as inoffensive as possible.

      My initial advice would be to not purchase any Apple products, they've got contempt for both their customers and their suppliers, but also dont buy anything made by Taylor Swift. Go see a decent performer like the Foo Fighters or go see a local band that plays at a pub every Friday and Saturday night who really appreciates everyone who spends a dollar on seeing them.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    9. Re:As always by Rinikusu · · Score: 1

      No they didn't, actually. I work in the industry. Apple basically said "This is what we're going to do; if you don't like it, shove off". And iTunes is such a major portion of their digital income stream, that it's a very difficult decision for them to make. Sony still hasn't signed, and many of the smaller labels are scrambling (with lawyers) to figure out how to fight effectively. If this isn't monopolistic behavior, I dunno what is.

      --
      If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
    10. Re:As always by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is Apple's bank balance factor into the perceived fairness of an offer? Ultimately, each artists (or agent/company acting on their behalf) decides whether or not Apple's deal is fair for them by either signing or declining to sign.

    11. Re:As always by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      seems to be exactly what their doing anyway. Their just hoping making it a "free trial" with a limited time period keeps it legal enough to not be successfully sued. It's along the same lines as Jeb Bush going for months as a Presidential candidate but refusing to officially announce so he could keep working directly with his superPACs. If either continued this behavior it's illegal but since they stop it right before they would actually break the law...

    12. Re:As always by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, considering that same artist will get more from Apple music streaming than from any other streaming service once the payments do kick in. 3 months could be small potatoes compared to the money they could potentially make once the payments do kick in. It's all part of the music business. Don't like it, get out like Taylor Swift.

      On that note, I hope Apple cuts all of her music from their streaming service and from iTunes. They don't need her and she doesn't need them. We can just pirate her music as needed.

  15. Taylor Swift: Apple's Disdain For Royalties.... by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

    something something something something.... I don't know what it said. The headline has been redacted by a big black, kinda square-ish looking thing with a number in inside of it. Should I file an FOIA request to get the rest?

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    1. Re:Taylor Swift: Apple's Disdain For Royalties.... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Maybe start a Kickstarter program to get all of you folks on 12 inch 80 x 25 monitors on to something more current?

      Yes, I think putting the ambiguous icon on the right hand side of the screen is dumb, but I can read the entire headline (and the summary and, if the editor provides a link, TFA but that's only for special occasions).

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Taylor Swift: Apple's Disdain For Royalties.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right! 1366x768 should be enough for everybody. I can just shrink the text down to three or four pixels, and I can see it all! Now excuse me while I go hunt for my 10x magnifying glass.... Ah, here we go .. .... .... ... Oh yes, much better

    3. Re:Taylor Swift: Apple's Disdain For Royalties.... by tepples · · Score: 1

      Maybe start a Kickstarter program to get all of you folks on 12 inch 80 x 25 monitors on to something more current?

      No matter how many pixels you pack into a 12 inch laptop, it's still going to be a 12 inch laptop and will need appropriate text magnification. Otherwise, good luck fitting a 17 inch laptop into a 12 inch satchel.

    4. Re:Taylor Swift: Apple's Disdain For Royalties.... by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Get a bigger laptop bag?

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    5. Re:Taylor Swift: Apple's Disdain For Royalties.... by tepples · · Score: 1

      I tried that before, back when I was in college. A larger laptop bag is more conspicuous and harder to carry.

    6. Re:Taylor Swift: Apple's Disdain For Royalties.... by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Ah, I tend to forget that aspect. I have had only one major incident with attempted robbery or the likes. I am also an idiot. Hindsight is actually a good thing. I had somebody pull a gun on me and demand my money. There was no magazine in this weapon and the barrel was only large enough for BBs. I said no and kept walking. There are many reasons why this was stupid.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  16. So, where's she getting money? by Voyager529 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Assuming she's for real in this respect, I appreciate her concern for her comrades in the industry. However, She's pulled her music from Spotify, and now she's pulling it from iTunes. So...she's living off Pandora royalties and CD sales? I mean, the album has been out for quite some time, so she's made most of her millions off it at this point anyway and this is more grandstanding than anything else...but if it were a new release, would she really be this adamant about giving up iTunes revenue, even if it spent a bit too much time in the 'Accounts Receivable' column?

    1. Re:So, where's she getting money? by sribe · · Score: 4, Informative

      Assuming she's for real in this respect, I appreciate her concern for her comrades in the industry. However, She's pulled her music from Spotify, and now she's pulling it from iTunes. So...she's living off Pandora royalties and CD sales? I mean, the album has been out for quite some time, so she's made most of her millions off it at this point anyway and this is more grandstanding than anything else...but if it were a new release, would she really be this adamant about giving up iTunes revenue, even if it spent a bit too much time in the 'Accounts Receivable' column?

      Unless she has a super-special deal (which, who knows, with her market power she might), she makes way more off touring and related merchandising than she does the pitiful royalties from album (both physical & virtual) sales.

    2. Re:So, where's she getting money? by Whorhay · · Score: 2

      I didn't read her post on tumbler but from the article I read she wasn't pulling her music from iTunes. She's just keeping it out of Apple Music which is their new streaming service. She's still selling music through plenty of other storefronts, brick and mortar as well as digital. Not that she would likely miss 3 months of income very much.

    3. Re:So, where's she getting money? by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      Unless she has a super-special deal (which, who knows, with her market power she might), she makes way more off touring and related merchandising than she does the pitiful royalties from album (both physical & virtual) sales.

      Of course, that also means that iTunes is more like a shared marketing agreement, and by making it more difficult for less successful artists to make an attractive deal with Apple for their own marketing, she actually is proposing to hurt them.

    4. Re:So, where's she getting money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      she probably owns her own publishing, that's how. The person(s) that own the publishing are the person(s) that make money from radio/tv/movies/streaming of their copyrighted works....not the evil record companies you nerds always point at when trying to justify theft.

    5. Re:So, where's she getting money? by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      To channel Dave Chappelle...she's RICH bitches! Both of these services are just a drop in her profit stream bucket. The radio play royalties alone are probably magnitudes more than Spotify or iTunes ever made her in $$$. Much of her target market still use CDs, her own clothing line, make-up, and stuff I don't even know about. When her new album hits the shelves of Walmart is when she gets paid, not iTunes. Most artists dream of having the marketing / product system she has set up at this moment.

    6. Re:So, where's she getting money? by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      She's got a clothing line through Walmart, her music isn't her only current business "venture"...Many of her fan base still buy physical CDs, and her constant royalties from radio play isn't small either. And huge packed stadiums too...

    7. Re:So, where's she getting money? by jwhitener · · Score: 1

      she makes way more off touring and related merchandising than she does the pitiful royalties from album (both physical & virtual) sales.

      Which is where I think music should head in general: no more selling digital copies of music, make your money actually playing the music. Something that can be copied with zero cost is always going to be at odds with a business model that uses artificial scarcity to inflate the value of a digital copy.

      And it obviously doesn't help creativity or society to have copyrights be 70+ years plus the life of the artist. Works of art are supposed to go back into the common pool, so new artists can build off them, reinterpret them, get inspiration from them, etc..

  17. Boo fucking hoo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    for music industry douchbags.

  18. Taylor Swift by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    BOOHOOO poor little billionairess.

  19. Horray for Taylor Swift. by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't know about her music, but as of now, I say, horray for Taylor Swift.
    Apple's business plan is "to get customers for OUR new business, we will give away YOUR music for free!"
    Yeah. So, basically, Apple is saying that they, the world's most profitable company, require individual artists to DONATE THEIR WORK FOR FREE... to get Apple's business started.
    And they're calculating that individual artists don't have any leverage, there's nothing they can do about it.
    So, it's nice to see a singer whose work is selling millions of copies per month standing up to them.
    Horray for her.

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    1. Re: Horray for Taylor Swift. by Fwipp · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you're interested in reading a bit more of her rationale, she posted her announcement on her tumblr page, here: http://taylorswift.tumblr.com/...

    2. Re:Horray for Taylor Swift. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps if she doesn't like the deal her representation the RIAA has signed and agreed to with Apple, then she should find other representation.

    3. Re:Horray for Taylor Swift. by AmiMoJo · · Score: 0

      They think that artists will be clamouring to get on their platform. They are wrong, because they offer nothing particularly compelling over other similar services. Anyone with an established fan base doesn't need Apple, but Apple really needs them.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:Horray for Taylor Swift. by zr · · Score: 2

      quite frankly i don't understand what it means for a public company to be "generous". give away investors' money? i dont think so.. thats your and my retirement money.

      i'd much rather apple (or anyone else) be successful in creating a revenue-producing platform for artists than be "generous". if that takes a three months wait, well, so be it.

      so far from the artist's perspective (who is not Taylor Swift) there is no platform like this.

    5. Re:Horray for Taylor Swift. by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Apple can wait, they have more money than God, it's the long con for them.

      They'll get new Indy artists, some of those artists will eventually hit it big with Apple, and while they won't get paid during the 3 month trial period, they WILL get paid a significantly better cut than anyone dealing with one of the traditional labels where Hollywood accounting insures artists don't make dick.

      And in a few years the greedy record labels will have screwed over enough people while others are making copious amounts of cash on iTunes music ... At which point tswift is going to come back apologizing for being a moody little brat and ask them for some love.

      She doesn't know enough about the accounting to realize how much better iTunes Music COULD be for her if she wasn't locked into her current shitty contracts.

      Anyone with an established fan base is on the verge of being yesterday's fad, only a statistically insignificant number make it big more than one album. The tswifts of the world aren't that large a part of the industry on the whole, even if they do make a fortune on paper compared to you and I

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    6. Re:Horray for Taylor Swift. by raind · · Score: 1

      From her Tumblr post:

      "But I say to Apple with all due respect, itâ€(TM)s not too late to change this policy and change the minds of those in the music industry who will be deeply and gravely affected by this. We donâ€(TM)t ask you for free iPhones. Please donâ€(TM)t ask us to provide you with our music for no compensation."

      --
      Get up!
    7. Re: Horray for Taylor Swift. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Three months is a long time to go unpaid,

      What silliness. The three months applies to individual users, not individual artists. She is greedily avoiding what her record label handlers negotiated with Apple by joining three months late after the big herd of new users.

      It is unfair to ask anyone to work for nothing.

      Possibly the deal is unfair because these big deals are negotiated by assholes based on monopsony power.

      But, this again? No you do not have a "right to be paid for your work." You cannot go dig ditches, fill them in, and say, "somebody pay me." This type of argument takes advantage of populist narrowmindedness, inability to imagine anything but their boring lives, and, frankly, their stupidity, because thinking for just a second about your elementary school capitalist indoctrination, or thinking of how your own experience surviving would be different if you weren't someone's employee, is enough to see through it. I would like to make it easier for artists to live with dignity, for more of them to do so and to do it earlier in their career, because people are currently not being paid anywhere near in accordance with how much I value their work. For example, people in advertising get paid a lot, and I would be happier living without almost all of their work. So do agents, record label executives, and other bean-counters hanging around the arts, and I don't respect them. But "right to be paid" as a principle is something even a child can understand is stupid.

      I think it's fine for her to withhold her music from Apple, but we should see her for what she is: a hot commodity that got greedy and tried to get a better deal for herself than everyone else got. It is just obvious. It's probably best to have competition among all-you-can-eat streaming companies, so getting a better deal for artists collectively by sabotaging Apple's product is a questionable strategy. We already know where most of our monthly streaming fee is going from Spotify's releases: to the record labels. The negotiation between record labels and artists is broken. The negotiation between streaming companies and labels is sane, at least by comparison if not in absolute terms.

      I am tired of overcompensating them for serving their art poorly: by dumbing it down to simple melodies, overproducing it, sexing it up, reducing its diversity. The reduction in their power is the best thing that's ever happened to music, so Swift's attempt to manipulate for their side of a bargain with Apple and presume to speak for all artists is enraging.

      These are not the complaints of a spoiled, petulant child.

      Yet they are still very silly because, supposedly unhappy with what her notoriously aggressive record label representation negotiated with Apple from a position of considerable power, she suggests that Apple be "generous." Nobody in this business is "generous," and I will call anyone caught being "generous" with record labels the fool that they are.

      I think she is a chess piece in the hands of her record label handlers, like Britney Spears was during the "music sharing" discussion (which was ultimately won for the record labels' side mostly by Apple's roach-motel iPod players, not Britney). Every time a new streaming service launches, the labels negotiate a deal then send Swift out to whinge about whatever they negotiated. It's the level of smarmy bullshit we've come to expect from them. I think things will get much better for the long tail of artists other than Swift, and much worse for Swift, after the big labels are just gone.

    8. Re:Horray for Taylor Swift. by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 3, Informative

      There are plenty of other revenue producing platforms than Apple's scheme. It's ridiculous to buy into the Apple Hype.

      There is no reason at all that Apple shouldn't pay 'promotional costs' for using musical artists as their sales inducement. The same royalties should go to the artists before and after the promotion period.

      With regard to 'investors'- fuck off. Your 'investment' doesn't entitle you to spoils from Apple's rip-off of content providers. Maybe you should be clamoring for some fucking dividends, not kneeling at the altar of Apple's huge 'war chest' of unpaid dividends. It's almost Stockholm Syndrome. But everything about Apple seems that way sometimes.

    9. Re:Horray for Taylor Swift. by SvnLyrBrto · · Score: 1

      Free trial periods are fairly common and standard though; not just for internet services but in everything from telecoms to consumer products ("If you're not completely satisfied in 30-days return it for a full refund") to drug dealers. Some states even have a "cooling off period" where you are able to return a new car for a full refund within a certain period of time. So why is Taylor Swift, or anyone else, singling out Apple; besides the standard-issue irrational BS dating all the way back to "what kind of an idiot talks to a computer with a mouse?" (Or, as she herself put it: Haters gonna hate.)

      Three months is longer than most, sure. But I suspect that the calculation is that those three months will convince more users to convert to paying customers than a normal 15 or 30 day trial would be. Though I notice that Spotify's $1 trial period is also three months. And Swift had her Spotify-hate thing going on a while back. So maybe she is not privy to those projections and really is just butt-hurt about the length of the trial.

      Also, Apple can't unilaterally do a free trial of any length. They need the permission and support of the rights holders, be they major labels or minor. Not that that bunch is in any way virtuous themselves. But again, free trial periods are fairly common across the board. And why would they make this one three months unless the business types HAVE predicted that it would result in more paying post-trial customers than a shorter one?

      --
      Imagine all the people...
    10. Re: Horray for Taylor Swift. by LDAPMAN · · Score: 1, Informative

      She doesn't have "record label handlers". She owns her own label.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    11. Re: Horray for Taylor Swift. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      The three months applies to individual users, not individual artists.

      I'm pretty certain that makes no difference overall, apart from rearranging when the payments arrive (or rather don't).

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    12. Re: Horray for Taylor Swift. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You are talking about artists and getting paid? iTMS does pay decently, as Apple is pretty reasonable for what they take out. However, in general, artists get screwed, blued, and tattooed over what they get paid with streaming service.

      Artists need to start doing more what Tool does. Don't play in the ballgame if you get sick and tired of being hosed by the rules.

    13. Re:Horray for Taylor Swift. by mlts · · Score: 1

      There are bands and musicians who have kept themselves relevant by maintaining their fan base, no matter how times change. Pink Floyd, Rush, Iron Maiden, Phish, ICP, and NIN come to mind.

      However, it takes time to convert a fan base from "hey, that is a cool/trendy song" to "hey, $BAND is having a new album come out." Some musicians don't take the time to try to look at the long picture, and try to break from their genre into a unique area only they are present in. One can get heard via being the pop thing, but one either has to have their own style (almost enough to have a subgenre) in order to not be forgotten in 2-3 years.

      One also doesn't have to be mainstream to eke out a decent fan base. The Austrian band Summoning has created a niche for themselves. Similar with the band Alestorm. Word of mouth and streaming services have gotten them heard, and merchandising sales is the revenue earner.

    14. Re: Horray for Taylor Swift. by Hognoxious · · Score: 0

      people are currently not being paid anywhere near in accordance with how much I value their work. For example, people in advertising get paid a lot, and I would be happier living without almost all of their work. So do agents, record label executives, and other bean-counters hanging around the arts, and I don't respect them.

      If you look very carefully, you will see the error in your argument.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    15. Re: Horray for Taylor Swift. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And while she herselft in this case, has leverage for her position against Apple, 99% of the artists who will end up on Apple, likely don't. It's good that she's pointing this discrepancy out, but I don't think her calling out Apple is as noble as it appears at first glance.

    16. Re:Horray for Taylor Swift. by zr · · Score: 1

      > There are plenty of other revenue producing platforms than Apple's scheme. It's ridiculous to buy into the Apple Hype.

      plenty? name top three.

    17. Re:Horray for Taylor Swift. by zr · · Score: 1

      > With regard to 'investors'- fuck off

      good luck with that one :)

    18. Re: Horray for Taylor Swift. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No you do not have a "right to be paid for your work."

      All right then, you whining little pussyboy.

      You start starving tomorrow since you and your parents will receive no more
      paychecks.

      I'll give you a week at most, before you see the error of your childlike attempt at logic.

    19. Re: Horray for Taylor Swift. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No that is even WORSE...

      If it were per artist then eventually it would wear off. But if it applies across the whole user base then for the first 3 months they are giving no one anything. Then after that the newest users get 'free' for 3 months but pay apple for it.

      That *is* a massive rip off. I can see why the major artists are like 'screw that'. The sharing services are already miniscule in profit. Then apple wants to make it even smaller. Nice.

    20. Re:Horray for Taylor Swift. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      then every copyright holder needs to either nail apple to the wall for copyright infringement. It's that fucking simple. Keep in mind that many of the copyrights are held by the fucking labels, so the artist get paid per their contract anyhow. Any Independent that allows Apple to do this, is an outright idiot as they hold the copyright and can sue Apple for infringement and that's why Apple isn't pursuing any of the independant artists for their new service.

    21. Re:Horray for Taylor Swift. by macs4all · · Score: 1

      I don't know about her music, but as of now, I say, horray for Taylor Swift. Apple's business plan is "to get customers for OUR new business, we will give away YOUR music for free!" Yeah. So, basically, Apple is saying that they, the world's most profitable company, require individual artists to DONATE THEIR WORK FOR FREE... to get Apple's business started. And they're calculating that individual artists don't have any leverage, there's nothing they can do about it. So, it's nice to see a singer whose work is selling millions of copies per month standing up to them. Horray for her.

      That's one (narrow) way to loo at it; but those who can actually envision the infinite time that lies beyond this first THREE MONTH period, actually REALIZE that this SHARED "loss leader" (keeping In Mind that Apple still has to pay for the costs of setting up and running Apple Music for those SAME THREE MONTHS), that maybe, just maybe (like 100% probability), those same "artists" (and.Apple) will be enjoying revenue for the foreseeable future, THAT THEY WOULDN'T OTHERWISE GET!

      Jeezus, you people simply don't understand marketing, do you? Greedy little privileged bitches. All of you.

    22. Re: Horray for Taylor Swift. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you even read the link you posted? Doesn't own that label.

    23. Re:Horray for Taylor Swift. by macs4all · · Score: 1

      To Parent mlts:

      Exactly! Please Mod Parent Insightful.

    24. Re:Horray for Taylor Swift. by dwywit · · Score: 1

      Why doesn't Apple offer to pay the royalties for the 3-month trial period?

      Consumers get their free trial, and many, if not most will sign up for the service.

      Labels/artists will get their royalties, and maybe even see an increase in income afterwards when the service really takes off (assuming that it follows the success of iTunes music). Ditto Apple's income.

      After all, who paid U2 for the free copies on everyone's iTunes?

      --
      They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
    25. Re: Horray for Taylor Swift. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because they paid the highest rates ever seen for a streaming service in exchange for a three month trial period?

    26. Re:Horray for Taylor Swift. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but past the three months, they get a full 50% more than they would on other streaming services. It's a straightforward "less now, more later" kind of deal. In the long run she would make MORE money than on other streaming services.

    27. Re:Horray for Taylor Swift. by KGIII · · Score: 1

      My state has an implied warranty law but, a car? That loses 1/3 of its value the minute it leaves the lot. They make the dealer take it back at full price??? Which states do this?

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    28. Re: Horray for Taylor Swift. by Xest · · Score: 1

      I think most of what she says is reasonable, well, if it was coming from someone that wasn't such a spoilt brat.

      The problem with Taylor Swift making this argument, is that she already makes insane amounts of money, and it's not the first time she's held streaming services to ransom to try and solicit even more. She's the personification of greed.

      The problem is here, that Apple is the same.

      So in this battle I struggle to support either party, she's right that Apple has the money to cover the trial costs and it's Apple's trial for Apple's service so they should do exactly that. But when she says things like "We shouldn't be expected to work for free", I have to ask, what work are you doing exactly Taylor? Last I checked you've already been well compensated for actually doing the work involved in making these tracks. Having Apple sell them for you requires no input on your behalf, so how on earth do you define it as work? No one is making you work for free Taylor. What you're really saying is "I can't believe they weren't going to pay me even more money than they already are for doing absolutely nothing!".

      That's not how the world works. In just about every other industry than music/movies people get paid to do actual work and that's that. Pretending that not being given free additional money for being sat on your ass is "working for free" is an insult to the other 99.9999% of the world's population that actually have to really work to make ALL their money, and typically much less to boot.

      She's not standing up for the little guy like she claims, all she's doing is demanding she gets paid more for doing nothing, and I have no sympathy for that stance.

    29. Re: Horray for Taylor Swift. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      What silliness. The three months applies to individual users, not individual artists.

      If Apple want to offer a free start-up then IT SHOULD BE APPLE'S COST. That is really the end of it. Have you ever heard of a shop having a sale and then deciding that they will simply not pass on the money to vendors as a result?

      This is an incredibly dick move by Apple especially since they are sitting on stupid amounts of cash. In no way are the terms Apple negotiated conscionable.

    30. Re: Horray for Taylor Swift. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No she doesn't. She's signed to Big Records. Her father owns a small share of it (~3%). It's owned and run by its founder, Scott Borchetta.

    31. Re: Horray for Taylor Swift. by gsslay · · Score: 2

      You miss the point.

      If an artist who wasn't already very successful (and therefore very rich) made this stand the world's media, and Apple, would go "So what, who cares?" and we wouldn't be discussing it here.

      In order for this to get attention it needs someone like Swift to make the stand. Whatever you may speculate her motivation is. Someone who has a genuine need and complaint about the money would get ignored.

    32. Re:Horray for Taylor Swift. by oji-sama · · Score: 1

      That's one (narrow) way to loo at it; but those who can actually envision the infinite time that lies beyond this first THREE MONTH period, actually REALIZE that this SHARED "loss leader" (keeping In Mind that Apple still has to pay for the costs of setting up and running Apple Music for those SAME THREE MONTHS), that maybe, just maybe (like 100% probability), those same "artists" (and.Apple) will be enjoying revenue for the foreseeable future, THAT THEY WOULDN'T OTHERWISE GET!

      Jeezus, you people simply don't understand marketing, do you? Greedy little privileged bitches. All of you.

      You do realize that many '(like 100%)' made some money before Apple started streaming music

      So what about the artists with presence in Spotify and such? They will be getting 3 months of reduced income because a corporation wants free advertisement? (Did someone mention greed?)

      --
      It is what it is.
    33. Re: Horray for Taylor Swift. by Xest · · Score: 1

      Try and re-read my post, you'll see I absolutely haven't missed the point because I made it clear that no side is in the right here - I fully get the argument against what Apple did and I support that.

      What I am saying is that Swift shouldn't be made out to be a saint for it because she's just doing this for herself whatever moral good she claims as there are a million ways she could help smaller acts, but the only ways she ever proclaims to help them are via methods that also happen to enrich her. Many of her acts, such as continuing to sign with and hence support large abusive studios in the first place are of massive detriment to the smaller acts she proclaims to be looking out for.

      I don't necessarily think she's malicious or cut-throat, I just think her telling herself she's somehow helping smaller acts whilst also acting detrimentally to them is her way of justifying her own greed to herself- she tells herself it's okay that she's trying to milk even more money because it'll help the smaller acts.

      If helping smaller acts is really what she cares about then she needs to prove it by doing things other than those that simply make her even more wealthy. Anything else is just a convenient side effect that she's waving around as an excuse for her real reasons for doing it.

      I'm just saying that people should only be praised for genuine altruism, and this most definitely isn't that. This is a selfish, not a selfless act.

    34. Re: Horray for Taylor Swift. by Tamerlin · · Score: 1

      But, this again? No you do not have a "right to be paid for your work."

      You're basically saying that if YOU make a product and someone else wants it, they can take it and you don't have any right to be paid for it, which is ridiculous.

      You cannot go dig ditches, fill them in, and say, "somebody pay me."

      This doesn't describe what's going on here in any way.

      This type of argument takes advantage of populist narrowmindedness, inability to imagine anything but their boring lives, and, frankly, their stupidity

      Truly the only stupidity here is yours. On the one hand you're saying that people don't deserve to be paid for their work, and on the other you're saying that artists deserve to be paid for their work.

      Whether YOU like Taylor Swift's music or not is irrelevant; what is relevant is that Apple wants to give the products that she and a lot of other artists have made away to entice people onto their service without paying those artists for their work. By any logic, this is called stealing. Apple's basically seeking to take advantage of the fact that they are a big company to screw the artists.

    35. Re: Horray for Taylor Swift. by Tamerlin · · Score: 1

      I'm just saying that people should only be praised for genuine altruism, and this most definitely isn't that. This is a selfish, not a selfless act.

      Whether or not it's genuine altruism is irrelevant. Her stand is good for artists who are getting screwed, and her stance is the correct one, even if it IS due to greed, so who cares? She's drawing attention to the rest of the artists who Apple is quite happy to screw over, which is what matters here.

      There were arguments about this when the Veronica Mars filmmakers launched a crowd funding campaign to finance the Veronica Mars movie. People said they shouldn't have done that, because they had money. They're ignoring however the fact that by launching such a high-profile crowd funding campaign for a film, they raised awareness of crowd funding for filmmaking and at the same time legitimized it in the eyes of the general public who weren't really on the crowd funding bandwagon yet, making it easier for independent filmmakers to find audiences and finance other film projects through crowd funding. They did the independent film community a lot more good than harm, so who cares that they could have paid for production on their own?

    36. Re:Horray for Taylor Swift. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      What Swift probably means is that Apple treats certain people better than they have to. My guess would be that this makes it easier for Apple to deal with these people in the future, and possibly it's good PR. In any case, a reputation for dealing fairly with people and giving them better offers than they might expect is valuable.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    37. Re: Horray for Taylor Swift. by Xest · · Score: 1

      Whether it's irrelevant or not depends on the discussion at hand, given that I'm making the point about not turning her into an idol over a purely selfish, rather than selfless act, then it's wholly relevant.

      I've already made the point that I agree it's good for other artists, but that doesn't mean I have to ignore the fact that there's a danger she's being idolised for something she really doesn't deserve respect for. She should only be given respect if she was acting wholly in the interests of smaller acts, but she's not doing that, because some of her other actions are harmful to smaller acts (i.e. propping up big music).

      Yes this is as an aside helpful to smaller acts, but that doesn't make criticism as to why she is doing it irrelevant.

  20. No business acumen by Dunbal · · Score: 1

    You'd think that someone worth a couple hundred million dollars would be able to launch their own pay-per-download site for their music and cut out the middlemen.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    1. Re:No business acumen by sleepypsycho · · Score: 1

      This is a really interesting idea. I don't expect any single artist to do this as they investment of time and effort requires serious dedication. If artists wanted to be business people then they would not have become artist.

      However if you could get maybe half of the top 20 artist to agree that it was in the best interest of the themselves and artists in general, they could pull there music form all the other services and form a new non-profit service (non-profit for the service no the artist). The top artists will drive people to the service. The service would use advertising and or fees and all the money would go to the artists / royalty owners.

      Basically this is like a union with some very wealthy members such as the NFL's players union. The union would pay a health salary to president and others for the business aspect. The union could negotiate deals with other services if the membership thought it was in their best interest. It would have some of the drawbacks of such unions but in total it would be a lot better for the artists than current systems, if not so much for people who want to stream free music.

    2. Re:No business acumen by Dunbal · · Score: 2

      as they investment of time and effort requires serious dedication.

      A couple hours spent interviewing someone to hire to set it all up? Yeah, lots of time and dedication. I'm not saying she'd do it herself. She'd hire people to do it for her. You think Paris Hilton personally manages her cosmetics line?

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    3. Re:No business acumen by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Counting Crows sell the recordings taken off their sound board for most of the gigs they perform on an independent website. It's pretty reasonable too.

      Their studio albums are available via the usual route, but it's a great way to hear their live material (which is almost always chaining around between performances).

    4. Re:No business acumen by sleepypsycho · · Score: 1

      > pay-per-download site for *their* music

      I guess I missed the word "their" and over interpreted. Since the problem she was addressing in the letter was royalty payments to artists in general and not herself, I was thinking of a generalized pay-per-download system. This would be a lot larger project requiring more complexity and vision in order to achieve its goals. This is what I think would be interest. I agree getting music directly from the artist is not a big thing.

    5. Re:No business acumen by jrumney · · Score: 1

      You mean like this?

    6. Re:No business acumen by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      She'd hire people to do it for her.

      You throw that out there as if that somehow makes it less of an accomplishment? Everyone in her industry is out to fleece her and she's still coming out on top. Just hiring someone doesn't make it any easier, because now you have to manage those people and make sure they're not fleecing you, selling you short, or doing dodgy deals on your behalf to shaft you.

  21. Meh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I think she's calling for a bit too much out of Apple. Apple has never made all that much money from music on ITunes; it was more of a way to encourage people who were amenable to paying about a dollar a track to do so while also using iTunes and buying iPods (and later iPhones), which is what Apple really wanted. Their money comes from hardware sales, after all. Before the iTMS, Apple had been running ads encouraging people to rip their own music for use in ITunes and on iPods (with a subtext that was permissive of music piracy).

    The late entry of Apple into streaming, the decline of paid downloads due to streaming, and the lack of money in the music industry for all players make it clear that Apple still isn't interested in music as an actual source of revenues. Streaming looks like a way to keep their hand in, more than anything else.

    The reality of music streaming is that there aren't many users, and the vast majority of them don't pay for it. Apple will probably not get more than 10 million paying users (and most likely fewer than that). That's about 30 million in revenues for Apple per ye

    1. Re:Meh by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, if streaming is such a low-value activity for the artists streamed; and Apple is likely to view it more or less as a roughly revenue neutral promotion for their hardware and software; that is arguably an excellent incentive for artists to not play along.

      Some of them dislike streaming services period, because of the very low pay and perceived reduction in music purchase by their users; even if they are willing to work with streaming services, they'll have a much better negotiating position when dealing with Pandora, Spotify, etc. who have no other lines of business and no special level of integration with people's devices or other advantages that keep them from being largely interchangeable.

      Apple makes a lousy partner because their service almost certainly will be architecturally favored on the most common and lucrative mobile devices, making it harder to convince users to just move if the library is better elsewhere; but their primary interest will always be in maximizing the profit of their entire lineup, and treating the streaming service as something as close to 'iDevices come with free music' as they can manage.

      The artists' position might actually be best if Apple's service dies; because it is the streaming service with by far the strongest negotiating position, and likely the greatest ability to replace music purchase.

    2. Re:Meh by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      I appreciate your reply, though please note that the post you're replying to was incomplete; Slashdot's lousy UI went ahead and posted it while I was in the middle of writing it. For the whole thing (revised slightly) see here: http://entertainment.slashdot....

      Anyway, I don't have any qualms with rightsholders complaining about, or refusing to assign or license rights to, businesses that they disagree with. That's their choice. But the music industry is in a bad way right now. Siding with Apple might be a bad choice, but refusing to deal with them might also be a worse one. There probably isn't a good option to choose.

      Most people won't buy CDs if they can buy tracks online. Most people won't buy tracks online if they can stream; music purchase is already dying if you look at the numbers. Most people won't pay for streaming if they can stream for free. And most people won't do any of those things if the cost and inconvenience is even moderate, because piracy is free and quite easy also.

      (Note also that because an individual's taste in music typically ossify, once they've got a big enough collection, barring format shifts, which don't happen anymore, you basically lose them as a customer. You'd better hope that they stream instead of collecting, and that if they collect, they pay for it instead of pirate it)

      Like it or lump it, this is the reality that participants in the music industry need to face. Bitching about Apple isn't going to change it.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    3. Re:Meh by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      I agree that the music industry(barring the use of their impressive lobbying clout to simply start raiding the public purse and transferring the contents directly to one of the dreadful royalty collection entities) is pretty seriously screwed. I'm just not sure that Apple is a good company to get in bed with to try to solve that.

      I'm thinking back to the sequence of events surrounding the the original ITMS, with track-based sales. Team music was largely enthusiastic, finally somebody actually competent to give those damned pirate kids an easier, relatively palatable, option for being paying customers again. And, in part, it worked. Unfortunately for Team Music, Apple proved to be a bit too competent, 'Playsforsure' and its planned ecosystem of interoperable devices and competing music stores basically crashed and burned, Real did something so pathetic that I'm hard pressed to remember it; and the upshot was that they ended up having to sanction the sale of MP3s through Amazon, often at 20 cents or so less, per track, than ITMS, just to keep Apple from being the ultimate gatekeeper.

      With streaming services, I suspect that Apple will again be the competent guys(even if they are no more competent than their competitors, they have integration with ITMS billing, and a giant pile of customers with credit card information already punched in, and they have privileged access to iOS, so anything their streaming app needs to be better than everyone else's streaming app(whether it be more lenient treatment of the process when running in the background, special RIAA-and-major-studios-blessed 'secure' local storage for 'predictive caching' when bandwidth is cheap and abundant(ie. on wifi, also handy because Apple easily has enough reach and clout to realistically push some CDN/caching hardware to retail partners if that makes economic sense: Starbucks, say, already has some interaction with Apple in selling music, they'd probably be willing to plug some suitably-modified Time Capsule based local cache into their network, assuming Apple made it low hassle enough); as well as the general competence of Apple's consumer software development.

      Given that the streaming market already doesn't pay worth a damn, even with multiple competing entities who are trivial to switch between, all pretty similar to use, and live and die by their catalogs; I can't imagine that their cut of the action will get better if Apple comes in and crushes Pandora and friends and is now in position to dictate terms(extra fun if Apple decides that promotional visibility, and/or the privilege of being sold in the ITMS at all, will now be predicated on how cooperative you are with their streaming plans, and any other future developments).

      Given that piracy is always attractively priced, and often surprisingly user friendly(sure, sleazytorrent.ru has more ads for sex chats and korean dating services; but 'click "Artist_Name_Complete_Discography_FLAC.torrent", receive complete discography of chosen artist' is pretty frictionless; team music can't afford to entirely spurn the more competent outfits looking to sell music; but if I were them I'd be very, very, nervous about Apple both being a bit too competent, and (since Apple makes basically zero on music sales; but uses them to enhance the value of the products that they do make money on) a 'partner' who really doesn't share your goals.

      Companies that want to make money selling music, or access to music, will haggle with the artists and labels over the cut that goes to the artist and the cut that goes to them; but they are fundamentally interested, just like the artists, in the public spending more money on music. Apple or Microsoft or Google? They have the virtue of being able to build slicker-than-piracy products, since they all know something about UI/UX, and have privileged positions on the world's desktops, consoles, and mobiles; but none of them have any obvious reason to want increased public spending on music. Indeed, all of them have va

  22. What about ASCAP? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What about song writers royalities?

    1. Re:What about ASCAP? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LMAO!

  23. Free trials are great by iamacat · · Score: 1

    If you are running a startup, you would love a service that offers 3 month free trials with decent conversion rate. It would be easy enough to get a bank loan and cover expenses while subscriptions ramp up, so long as you can document your likely monthly profits afterwards.

    Now it could well be that most musicians would rather be paid a salary than depending on fluctuating royalties. But the likes of Taylor Swift would actually be strongly against that. When you are on a salary and become a megahit, you would get a nice bonus and maybe stock grants, but nowhere near the actual value of your work.

    1. Re:Free trials are great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But it isn't the artists who are "running a startup", it's Apple. Apple should pay the costs associated with starting up their new product.

  24. This is not how artists get paid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This *is* advertising. Artists get paid when you *buy* their music. If you are streaming it, you are using the exact same model that radio uses... it is a *advertising* platform. Artists are trying to change that model, and I won't take a side on that ssue, but lets be clear here... *Apple* isn't doing anything different than any other radio station, streaming audio or any other delivery service.
      The streaming media company packages this up to you one way, but underneath the covers, the *music industry* knows that this is simply advertising.

    1. Re:This is not how artists get paid by tepples · · Score: 1

      If you are streaming it, you are using the exact same model that radio uses

      True of Pandora, not of Spotify. Spotify users make their own playlists.

  25. How much does Apple spend on Lobbying? by humptheElephant · · Score: 1

    If Apple needs to make more money, a better return on their investment would be to send more folks to Wash DC to get special treatment passed by the congress critters rather than taking it out on the artists. That's an investment return that will outdo Wall Street by orders of magnitude.

  26. Great PR team by ArchieBunker · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Swift has a hell of a PR team. She is in the news practically every other day for something. This is not done out of goodwill, this is a business decision.

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    1. Re:Great PR team by argStyopa · · Score: 1

      Of course it is. But the only people with the power to fight monolithic corporate monsters are monolithic corporate monsters; our government is (to quote O'Rorke) a parliament of whores, they certainly won't.

      Likely, Apple could crush her in the marketplace....but their market-image rests to a large part on their bullshit lily-white public image (which, if you have ever dealt with them professionally from Jobs on down, you'll know that's nonsense) ; like a clever judo move, she's deploying that against them. They (probably) daren't allow themselves to be seen to fight her.

      --
      -Styopa
  27. Theft of Intellectual Property by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With all the sound and fury about people "stealing" copyrighted materials, how is Apple getting away with this?

    Best as I can tell, EACH Instance should be punishable with thousands of dollars of fines and jail terms for those at Apple who authorize this.
     

    1. Re:Theft of Intellectual Property by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2

      With all the sound and fury about people "stealing" copyrighted materials, how is Apple getting away with this?

      Best as I can tell, EACH Instance should be punishable with thousands of dollars of fines and jail terms for those at Apple who authorize this.

      It's not illegal. Apple either has permission from the rightsholders for the music they offer, or a statutory right to offer it, and doesn't offer the music for which they don't have permission or a right.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    2. Re:Theft of Intellectual Property by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      With all the sound and fury about people "stealing" copyrighted materials, how is Apple getting away with this?

      Best as I can tell, EACH Instance should be punishable with thousands of dollars of fines and jail terms for those at Apple who authorize this.

      So you don't think that Apple spent months (likely years) negotiating the deal for this? They specifically set up the 3 month trial period followed by an *increased* share of the revenue for the rights holders (i.e., more than Pandora and Spotify are paying per track). All of this is set out in pages and pages of contracts.

      Where's the "head explode with incomprehension of extreme stupidity" meme when you need it?

      No wonder you forgot to log in. I'd be embarrassed too. How do you even tie your shoes?

  28. Tim Cook will step in by kencurry · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I bet. Apple has more to loose than to gain, so I predict Apple management will come back with some gesture toward paying artists for the trial period. That's the smart thing to do anyway.

    Also, good for her to take this role.

    --
    sigs are for losers (except to point out that sigs are for losers)
    1. Re:Tim Cook will step in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bet. Apple has more to loose than to gain, so I predict Apple management will come back with some gesture toward paying artists for the trial period. That's the smart thing to do anyway.

      Also, good for her to take this role.
      --
      sigs are for losers (except to point out that sigs are for losers)

      What kind of loser has "loser" in their sig, twice, but... misspells "lose" inside their post?

    2. Re:Tim Cook will step in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's called looser spelling. It effects loose minds.

  29. Apple can do no wrong... by mschaffer · · Score: 1

    Apple can do no wrong. Just get used to it---unless you have more lawyers than they do.

  30. waaaaahhhhh by Lord+Dreamshaper · · Score: 1

    On the one hand, Apple oughtta just suck up the 3 months as product/service investment and still make the royalty payouts, but the reality is that, given their track record, I'd be cheering for them as an artist as Apple's success would eventually be better for me in the long run anyway.

    The *real* reality is that no artists makes any real money off physical album sales, downloads or streaming except the rare mega-acts like Metallica, U2, and presumably TS which the RIAA treat as loss-leaders, so Apple paying or not for first 3 months is moot to almost all signed acts, never mind indies

    --
    When all of your wishes have been granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed - Marilyn Manson
    1. Re:waaaaahhhhh by Lord+Dreamshaper · · Score: 1

      for clarity, I guess RIAA doesn't treat mega acts as loss leaders, rather, the individual label treats the artist(s) as a loss leader

      --
      When all of your wishes have been granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed - Marilyn Manson
    2. Re:waaaaahhhhh by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Well, they negotiated for the three month trial in exchange for increased royalties for the rights holders after that time is up - the people who own the music agreed to these terms, so Swift's rant is misdirected (and also conveniently ignores that she made the same rant against Pandora and Spotify, but this is an Apple bash piece, so leaving that out makes it look like it's specifically an Apple issue).

      Apple didn't do this in a vacuum, and they certainly didn't lay it out as an ultimatum. These discussions have been ongoing for months.

  31. Meh (take 2) by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Well, looks like /. ate and posted an incomplete post of mine. I guess I won't try writing any posts from my phone in the future, if their UI is going to be this crappy. Let's try again, with a few revisions:

    I think she's calling for a bit too much out of Apple.

    Apple is a hardware company; any products or services they offer other than hardware are only relevant to them because they think it'll help them sell hardware. Apple also has a justified complex regarding self-sufficiency. More on that presently.

    When listening to compressed music on computers began to take off, Apple responded by buying SoundJam MP, modifying it, and releasing it as iTunes. Mostly this was to sell computers -- making sure that people knew that Macs were well-suited to storing, organizing, and playing music files, and could also rip and burn CDs. It was also part of their complex to not rely on third parties to provide important features, and this was now deemed an important feature, with the iPod beginning development shortly after the purchase of SoundJam, and with iTunes to be the syncing software for it.

    Releasing a Windows version of iTunes, and selling music via the iTunes Music Store were both just strategies to sell more iPods. Apple figured that some people would buy downloaded music at the 99 cent price point, and that some of them might even be former pirates. The store's label-mandated use of DRM would also help lock customers into the iTunes ecosystem, helping to sell more iPods.

    Streaming is just more of the same; because of free streaming, many people who would buy music, or who would pirate music, have flocked to listen to music legally for free (at the expense of having to use bandwidth to stream, not having offline copies, and losing some degree of choice in what you're listening to when. Also, ads). While the iPhone is now more important than the iPod, Apple likes having people locked into the iOS ecosystem. They like having people buy iOS devices, on which music listening is still a core feature (and will continue to be, e.g. with the CarPlay platform). Streaming has become important, and like all important things, it can't be left in the hands of third parties. Therefore Apple must provide music streaming.

    But music streaming is a crappy business. Almost all the users stay in free tiers; a mere handful actually pay. Apple's plan is to draw users in with a free time period and then hope for a good attach rate when the time comes for users to either cancel or pay to subscribe. I doubt that Apple will get more than 10 million paying customers (and therefore will only get revenues of around $200 million their first year, and around $300 million in later years after accounting for payments to rightsholders). Frankly, they can find more money than that in their couch cushions. Apple isn't interested in streaming for how profitable it is (read: it really isn't). And I'm sure that they know that in the absence of free streaming, most people will go right on back to pirating music again (with some returning to the iTunes Store, which suits Apple fine).

    The whole point of Apple's streaming service therefore is just to keep their hand in, and to prevent a potential rival from being in a position where Apple is so dependent on the rival that the rival has power over Apple.

    So can Apple pay rightsholders during the free period? I'm sure they can afford it. Although it makes no economic sense for Apple, as it would cost over $20 million per million free users, and with low attach rates expected, this could easily run over a billion dollars in payouts for a business expected to generate far far less than that. It's frankly not important enough to them to do it. Putting up with Taylor Swift whining at them, and rightsholders loudly complaining that the world is no longer stuck in the 80's and early 90's, is not too big of a cross to bear.

    Apple's options other than a free trial period are a free tier, or no free anything. We already know what Swift thinks about

    --
    -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    1. Re:Meh (take 2) by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      The estimate for the cost of licensing fees per user sounds way out of whack at $20 per month. I would expect something in the range of $5 maybe running up to $10. Afterall that cost needs to be at or under what people actually pay for the service.

      Even if it did end up costing Apple $1 Billion dollars to pay the licensing for that first 3 months it'd very likely end up being worth it to them in the long run provided it is successful. They've got plenty of money in cash and creating further lockin for their customers is what they are all about.

  32. Well I don't get paid for a month by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Start a job. You won't get paid for the first month if you're on a monthly salary. So it's very VERY normal for this to happen to ordinary people.

    Three months? Extraordinary? But wanting to get paid for work you didn't do (make the copy) is also extraordinary. Get paid after you die? Hella extraordinary!

  33. "Moral hazard" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The argument isn't about being paid or not but rather, how much. Apple isn't refusing to pay at all. But simply treating royalty as "if we get money, you get money". I see nothing wrong with this model.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_hazard -- that's what is wrong with this model. If you don't understand why letting large corporations gamble other peoples money/property where only the corporation keeps any gains, then you must have been born after 2008.

    If Apple is going to invest in developing is new service, then 100% of the investment cost needs to come from Apple.

    1. Re:"Moral hazard" by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 2

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_hazard [wikipedia.org] -- that's what is wrong with this model

      This is no "moral hazard" because this is a voluntary transaction between two private parties. Taylor Swift is free to take the deal or leave it, depending on how she sees the risks and benefits.

      If Apple is going to invest in developing is new service, then 100% of the investment cost needs to come from Apple.

      You're saying that if I and a bunch of musician friends want to develop a new streaming service for some niche market, you want to prohibit them from letting me use their music for free to get the service started in return for larger royalty payments later?

      It's people like you and thinking like yours that creates the big, monopolistic corporations that we have.

    2. Re:"Moral hazard" by tofarr · · Score: 1

      Have Apple defined "larger royalty payments" or "later"? The fact is, multiple streaming services already exist - Spotify, Pandora, etc. etc. At this point, it is close to a zero sum game - I doubt Apple's involvement will generate many new customers, but rather will be intended to gain customers from the existing services. This is all well and good, as long as they are doing it on their own merit, rather than attempting to cut costs by making artists work for free. That is EXACTLY the sort of thing that helps create "big, monopolistic corporations"

    3. Re:"Moral hazard" by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      his is all well and good, as long as they are doing it on their own merit, rather than attempting to cut costs by making artists work for free

      Attempting to negotiate a lower price is what free markets are about.

      That is EXACTLY the sort of thing that helps create "big, monopolistic corporations"

      No, it is EXACTLY the sort of thing that helps break up "big, monopolistic corporations".

      It is EXACTLY your attitude that helps create "big, monopolistic corporations".

    4. Re: "Moral hazard" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you or the GP back up your claims? I would really like to know who is right.

  34. There are two types of rich people... by RogueWarrior65 · · Score: 0

    A) Those who earned their wealth through decades of hard work and ingenuity and B) those who got lucky and have money thrown at them often in very short periods of time. The former group are rightfully offended by those who say that they didn't earn it because those who say they didn't earn it are either members of group B, people who idolize members of group B, or people who want people who idolize members of group B to vote for them. The Group B and their acolytes have no understanding of what it takes to earn the money. They subconsciously know that they really earn their money but to make themselves feel better they have deluded themselves into believing that group A doesn't exist and their popularity allows to them to continue to delude themselves.

    Ms. Swift has a ticket for Ship B.

    1. Re:There are two types of rich people... by Kohath · · Score: 0

      What if we could all agree not to covet or (use the government to) steal money from each other? If we could collectively decide not to hire a politician to tax someone else's money or a lawyer to sue for someone else's money so we could spend it without earning it, then it wouldn't matter which group a person was in.

    2. Re:There are two types of rich people... by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 2

      Ms. Swift has a ticket for Ship B.

      Taylor Swift has somewhat of a prodigious talent for song writing and a knack for business. Not through money, but her personal talent. Just because you have a problem with her rare ability to pen a catchy pop song which made her rich, or don't personally like her music, you somehow think she doesn't deserve her success and should give all that money back? According to your logic people can only be rich if you work hard for decades? How many decades? Is 2 enough, or does it have to be 4? Or 6? What is the exact requirement of decades before someone earns their rewards in your world?

  35. Problem is by Runaway1956 · · Score: 4, Informative

    The problem is, the music isn't the artist's property. The labels claim all the rights. The artists theoretical royalties invariably end up being a shit sandwich, without much bread. The labels signed the deal with Apple, because they know that the artists have signed away all their rights already.

    --
    "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    1. Re:Problem is by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 1

      Saying that big record labels give artists a lousy deal is not a justification for Apple to want artists to give their work away for free to advertise Apple's music service.

      --
      http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    2. Re:Problem is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple can ask for the sky and more if they want to. The record companies doesn't need to give them an inch. The problem is that Taylor Swift lives in the delusion that the record companies represent her. They don't and if Apple offers the record company a way to their market that they don't have to share with the artist they will accept.
      Her fame comes from the record companies control and she should realize that. Without them she would be a nobody and they can give away the music in whatever fashion they like. If she doesn't like it she can try to make a career of her own.

    3. Re:Problem is by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      Actually, as I understand it--and I may be wrong--she owns her own label and, thus, can do whatever she wants with her music. For us older folks, it's kind of like Joan Jett and Blackheart records.

  36. Yet another reason... by GrantRobertson · · Score: 1

    I will never buy from Apple and will never develop for Apple platforms.

    1. Re:Yet another reason... by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      I will never buy from Apple and will never develop for Apple platforms.

      You won't because they agreed a set of terms with the rights holders for how the music service would be launched?

      What an odd decision.

      I mean, whatever floats your boat I guess.

      I assume you have the same set of criteria for Spotify and Pandora, or is that different because they only negotiated for 1 month free trial (and pay a lower percentage of royalties after that 1 month ends compared to Apple)?

      I'm curious.

  37. Shaddup taylor by Chewbacon · · Score: 0

    Ya dumb broad. Go write a shitty 3rd-grade-level song about it.

    --
    Chewbacon
    The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
  38. sue for misuse of trademark by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hey, Taylor Swift, you aren't going to get much money out of Apple by complaining about how they license and sell music.

    But have you considered suing them over the "Swift" language? Obviously, they are using your trademarked good name in order to sell their new language, and you can probably get a well-deserved buck out of them so that you don't have to starve.

    Hey, it worked for Bob Dylan.

    1. Re:sue for misuse of trademark by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      Hey, it worked for Bob Dylan.

      "Swift" was a generic noun and a generic adjective long before Taylor's ancestors started using it. I've never seen a wild dylan or ran dylanly down a racetrack, though.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    2. Re:sue for misuse of trademark by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry, but your sarcasm detector appears to be faulty. You should have it checked out.

  39. Whoosh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "Great classics" - you buy

    "fast food music that will not stand the test of time" - you rent. Renting fast food music at a lower cost is the entire fucking point of a music subscription service.

  40. Royalties: Taylor Swift's Disdain For Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Royalties: Taylor Swift's Disdain For Apple Is 'Shocking, Disappointing'

  41. Apple & Taylor Swift aside... by Simulant · · Score: 1

    ... did the poor artists on Apple's music service sign something which allows Apple to distribute their music for free? Are new artists STILL giving away the rights to their own music? Has nothing been learned in the past 10-20 years? Or can these small labels & artists sue the living shit out of Apple over this?

    1. Re:Apple & Taylor Swift aside... by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      I'm sure they are free to cancel their contract with Apple any time. Of course, Taylor Swift wouldn't even exist without iTunes, so she is reluctant to do that. And the fact that Apple is in this bargaining position is really the result of choices that artists made earlier, namely signing up with Apple rather than signing up with a larger variety of companies.

      The correct thing to do would be for people like Taylor Swift to cancel their contracts with Apple and sign up with other music services. That would encourage free market competition.

      The wrong thing to do would be for antitrust regulators to step in and give people like Swift what they want. That's not because I begrudge Taylor Swift her millions (talentless as she may be), but because it would effectively enshrine Apple and a few other companies as government-regulated monopolies.

    2. Re:Apple & Taylor Swift aside... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can probably cancel the getting paid part of the contract. I bet Apple can still do a lot of things after cancelling the contract, including selling your music for as long as they like.

    3. Re:Apple & Taylor Swift aside... by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      ... did the poor artists on Apple's music service sign something which allows Apple to distribute their music for free? Are new artists STILL giving away the rights to their own music? Has nothing been learned in the past 10-20 years? Or can these small labels & artists sue the living shit out of Apple over this?

      Apple negotiated with the music labels that own the rights to the music.

      In exchange for 3 months free trial they pay more per track in royalties after the free trial than Pandora or Spotify.

      They clearly negotiated with the largest labels first and then offered the same terms to smaller labels and indies, who were totally free to either negotiate a different deal or decide not to participate in Apple Music (which doesn't affect their deals regarding the iTunes Store, which is handled separately).

      You think the way this has been painted that Apple went around with heavies and physically beat the artists to make them agree.

  42. Evidence that the copyright term is out of whack by tepples · · Score: 2

    I imagine Swift's reluctance has something to do with having a high-flying album still on the charts that will probably not be selling anywhere near as well 3 months from now.

    If the shelf life of a musical recording is measured in months, then why does copyright in the recording subsist for two orders of magnitude longer (95 years)?

  43. Re:People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones by JoeyRox · · Score: 1

    Example of her auto-tuned studio performance vs her actual voice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

  44. But Apple pays more later by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A hundred posts and not a single post yet pointing out that Apple's deal with the labels, while paying nothing for the trial period, pays MORE than the anyone else in the industry (spotify, pandora, etc.) after that point. There's a reason the labels agreed to the deal; it's not like they're stupid or weak, after all.

  45. tongue-in-cheek? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Quote in context from her site --

    "This is not about me. Thankfully I am on my fifth album and can support myself,
    my band, crew, and entire management team by playing live shows."

    Is this a knock against the R1AA? OMG! So funny! That she can only support her staff,
    not from album sales via the publisher, but by hawking on the street?! I'm not knocking
    Taylor Swift, but could she say it any more plainly. Man!

  46. GhostTunes by tepples · · Score: 1

    When Garth Brooks did that, it was called GhostTunes. But his complaint was more about selling singles separate from the "context" of the album.

  47. Re:Evidence that the copyright term is out of whac by war4peace · · Score: 1

    Let's assume that 30% of all revenue is being cashed in the first 3 months. The rest of 70% is spread over the 94 years and 9 months of copyright remaining. The artist gets the thick of it in the first 3 months and then everything else it trickling down as crumbles.
    Labels are greedy and can wait. An artist might not be able to wait that long, let alone still be alive 50 years from now.

    --
    ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
  48. What needs to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Artists need to get the RIAA involved to fight this obvious piracy. Maybe society would get lucky and they would all bankrupt themselves...

    1. Re:What needs to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But then only the lawyers would come out ahead.

  49. Yes, you do have a right to be paid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    No you do not have a "right to be paid for your work."

    If you are running a company and you need something I made as part of your business model you are damn well paying me for my work. Why should you get it for free? I don't care if in three months you are going to start paying me if your business is profitable, you built your business using my work, you are going to be paying me from the beginning.

    Taylor Swift has every right to demand to be paid for her work. Every artist has every right to demand to be paid for their work. You didn't create it. Apple didn't create it. So who the fuck are you (and Apple) to decide they shouldn't get paid?

    1. Re:Yes, you do have a right to be paid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Taylor Swift has every right to demand to be paid for her work.

      Except she's not working during those three months. She wants to be paid to not work too!

  50. just like The Beatles, Apple will come out ahead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Taylor Swift will withhold until the 3 month free period is over. Then her works will be available on the service. Apple will do an ad campaign to welcome her back, just in time for holiday gift giving season.

  51. Why would anybody want to be paid for their work? by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 1

    Start a job. You won't get paid for the first month if you're on a monthly salary.

    But you do get paid. They don't say "work for us for three month for free, then if we decide keep you on, we will start paying you."

    Apple isn't saying "we'll pay you in three months". They're saying "in order to promote our brand, you won't get paid at all for the stuff of yours we sell.

    but wanting to get paid for work you didn't do (make the copy) is also extraordinary.

    It is anonymous coward assholes like you, who think that art, and writing, and music-- in short, creative endeavours in general-- is not work, and shouldn't need to be paid for, who are the problem, not the solution.

    Yes, I am aware that it is now possible to copy stuff for almost no money.

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
  52. Re:People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones by onthemightofprinces · · Score: 0

    7 second snippet of performance pulled from early in her career recorded on a nokia cellphone y'mean? https://www.youtube.com/watch?... She can sing just fine. Studio is always gonna sound better through sheer number of takes and a controlled environment.

  53. Clean my house for free. It's recognition! by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 0

    Ah, the classic blunder of confusing physical goods with intellectual property. You can wave a magic wand to get a house cleaned. Someone is running a service where a significant portion of users sign up to pay you some change for each cleaning after a 3 month free trial. Is it really a bad deal, even if it did take you a lot of time to make your magic wand?

    No.

    in your metaphor, you're starting a housecleaning service, and you hire other people to clean houses. And your business model is that you don't pay these other people because you're giving your customers a three month free trial of your housecleaning service.

    The people you hire should be happy! They're helping you set up your business!

    Of course, once your business is set up the people who got your music for free won't buy your music (because they just got it for free) but, hey, recognition! That's just like money, almost.

    Isn't it?

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
  54. She writes most of her own songs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    She writes most of her own songs so I'll give her thumbs up for that alone. However, I don't like what she writes so I'll take that thumb back now.

  55. hahahah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "historically progressive and generous company"

    Taylor obviously has no idea about people jumping out of windows committing suicide in order to produce her precious iphone

    Fuck both Apple, and that self entitled cunt Taylor switft

  56. Re: manifesto by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The stupid is strong in this one.

  57. Shocking that i don't make a minute amount... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    for something that is essentially an advert for the live shows. The vast vast majority of money artists get is from live gigs not mp3s or albums unless they produce and sell it themselves. CDs, mp3s and radio time are merely ways of getting the music to the attention of the people who might want to see them perform live.

    As a side note taylor swift is worth of $200 million. You'd think she'd let a few cents go here and there. Even a pretty girl such as her can be a greedy, monstrous harlot who holds cold hard cash above those devoted to her.

  58. Hooray for Taylor Swift by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Taylor is today's Dolly Parton. T will be a force for music when she is in her 70s. She can sing, write and play her instruments. She is the consummate musician. And like Dolly she knows how to work with her audience.

    Dolly told Elvis "NO" when he demanded half the right$ to Dolly's signature song. Dolly made the right decision, hooray for Dolly.

    I've used Apple products since the IIe, so I'm not an Apple basher, but on this issue Apple can go piss up a rope.

  59. Get real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When the U.S. Radio ppl pay royalties, then I'll give the matter some more thought.

  60. how does Apple do it? by ILongForDarkness · · Score: 1

    I don't get it how did Apple get away with saying they won't pay royalties? Everyone else has to. What they just say "well we aren't making money so we don't have to pay"? Can I use that when I seed my torrents?

    1. Re:how does Apple do it? by ILongForDarkness · · Score: 1

      Oh also: one thing once this thing is out in the wild for a while I guess then the number of new subscribers tapers off. But it would suck to be a new artist that just happens to have their album coming out the week that this goes live. All your prime time on the chart gets sucked up by Apple and not paid for. Probably screws your billboard list too since you aren't selling copies.

    2. Re:how does Apple do it? by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      I don't get it how did Apple get away with saying they won't pay royalties? Everyone else has to. What they just say "well we aren't making money so we don't have to pay"? Can I use that when I seed my torrents?

      They aren't "getting away with it" - they negotiated with the labels who own the music. Both parties agreed to the terms.

      3 months free trial (instead of 1 like with Pandora or Spotify) in exchange for higher per-track royalties after the trial ends (compared to Pandora and Spotify).

      I'm amazed how many people seem to this this was just some ultimatum by Apple. I mean, the trolly-click-baity headlines like to paint it as such, so I can see maybe how that idea might spread, but you think people would be able to smell click bait.

    3. Re:how does Apple do it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Record company deals with artists often allow the record companies to get away with not paying anything for promotional use of music. That's part of how those "12 albums for $1 if you join the FOOBAR club" deals supposedly used to work - the artists weren't being paid anything for the cheap albums. What Apple wants to do for the free streaming period is similar to what record labels did with those clubs.

    4. Re:how does Apple do it? by naughtynaughty · · Score: 1

      It was an ultimatum from Apple, accept our terms or your music won't be on our service. They negotiated from a position of power, they ran into an artist who also has power and not only didn't accept Apple's ultimatum but brought to bear the power of public opinion and succeeded in changing Apple's position. She deserves a lot of credit for doing what she did.

    5. Re:how does Apple do it? by ILongForDarkness · · Score: 1

      I'd have to see the artist's contracts but it is pretty scary if the label has all the power to negotiate something like that. The songwriters, artists etc are supposed to get royalties having the label decide to give away free samples is insane. I want the movie industry to do the same thing: I'll pay them the second time I watch their movie.

    6. Re:how does Apple do it? by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      It was an ultimatum from Apple, accept our terms or your music won't be on our service. They negotiated from a position of power, they ran into an artist who also has power and not only didn't accept Apple's ultimatum but brought to bear the power of public opinion and succeeded in changing Apple's position. She deserves a lot of credit for doing what she did.

      Err, no.

      You don't seem to understand how music rights work - Taylor Swift's record label is the one who made the deal with Apple for the artists it represents. What she choses to flap about is irrelevant. She made the same fuss with Spotify.

      If she has a problem with the deal that her label made, then she can argue with them, not with Apple. She has the power to tell her label to "make the stand" but she doesn't negotiate directly with Apple or Spotify or Pandora at any stage.

    7. Re:how does Apple do it? by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      I'd have to see the artist's contracts but it is pretty scary if the label has all the power to negotiate something like that. The songwriters, artists etc are supposed to get royalties having the label decide to give away free samples is insane. I want the movie industry to do the same thing: I'll pay them the second time I watch their movie.

      The power that the labels have is very strong. It's hardly scary to know that they hold all the cards - why do you think the rise of indie labels has been greeted with such enthusiasm by artists.

      In this case, what Apple did was exchange a longer free period for higher per-song royalties after the free period ends, but it does this on a per-label basis and clearly hammers out these sorts of deals with the biggest ones first. The smaller labels and indies can negotiate different deals if they like, but do you think they'll be able to do better than Sony, for example, will be able to manage (making the assumption that Sony will press Apple for the best deal that is good for Sony)? They can't deal directly with the artists even if they want to because the rights to the music aren't owned by the artists themselves.

      The fact that the music labels hold all the cards is separate issue - artists have been getting the short end of the stick since long before Apple was even allowed to compete in the music business by law (hello Apple Records vs Apple Inc lawsuit).

  61. Return it and you don't pay by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 1

    Free trial periods are fairly common and standard though; not just for internet services but in everything from telecoms to consumer products ("If you're not completely satisfied in 30-days return it for a full refund") to drug dealers.

    So, does Apple's free trial period have a "if you're not satisfied, return all the music you got for free without paying the artists" clause?

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    1. Re:Return it and you don't pay by yndrd1984 · · Score: 1

      So, does Apple's free trial period have a "if you're not satisfied, return all the music you got for free without paying the artists" clause?

      Well, it's a music streaming service, so...

  62. Nothing new by chrism238 · · Score: 1

    Hater's gonna hate.

  63. My 1,500+ CD collection is all I need by mfearby · · Score: 2

    I've almost finished ripping them to MP3, too, so who needs streaming? It's all classical music, which I doubt Apple include in their new offering, so people like me don't needn't worry about being denied Taylor Swift's mind-numbing bilge. For the rest of us, there's always Radio Swiss's free online streaming radio (Jazz, Pop, and Classical)

    1. Re:My 1,500+ CD collection is all I need by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You assume everyone is a retarded music geek like you. I like to listen to shit music and I fucking LOVE to stream that shit music into my ears through lo-fi earphones. And trust me, the rest of the world doesn't live in a bubble like you, we listen to shit music, get drunk and get laid.

  64. Deeds speak louder than words by TapeCutter · · Score: 2

    U2 phony

    You mean the phony who shamed the world into forgiving Africa the crippling cold war debts that were foist upon it. The phony who personally persuaded Bill Clinton to dismantle the IRA's Boston based funding? The Irish phony who stood up in Boston and definitely screamed "fuck the revolution" at the IRA leaders and financiers in their home town? I don't know what TS has done to make the world a better place but criticizing Apple is just not in the same league as Bono's "good deeds".

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    1. Re:Deeds speak louder than words by hjf · · Score: 1

      The phony that hugged "Madres de Plaza De Mayo" leader in U2. Mothers of Argentinian terrorists "disappeared" in Argentina in the 70s after bombings, killings and even trying to set up an independent republic inside the country. The same Madre that's under investigation for corruption and who founded a private university, now in debt, that she wants the state to take care of.

      That phony.

  65. Pretty awkward for Apple... by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

    Given they named their new language after her.

  66. Why doesn't Taylor Swift sue Apple? by ayesnymous · · Score: 1

    Couldn't she put her album onto Apple Music, and when they don't pay her royalties for those 3 months, couldn't she sue Apple? Surely she can afford the legal fees that all the small artists can't.

  67. She's entitled to her opinion. by jcr · · Score: 1

    Somehow, I think Apple's going to get by without her catalog for the next three months.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  68. Re:Evidence that the copyright term is out of whac by mjwx · · Score: 1

    Let's assume that 30% of all revenue is being cashed in the first 3 months. The rest of 70% is spread over the 94 years and 9 months of copyright remaining. The artist gets the thick of it in the first 3 months and then everything else it trickling down as crumbles.
    Labels are greedy and can wait. An artist might not be able to wait that long, let alone still be alive 50 years from now.

    An easy (and capitalist) solution is to simply make copyright free for the first year and start charging per year after that.

    The only issue with this I can think of is that it may encourage some no talent artists (I.E. most of them) to blatantly copy old works and sell them as their own, but this is easily fixed by having a longer automatic copyright term for commercial purposes only.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  69. She should treat others the same way - but doesn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Swift demands photographers give her all royalty rights for any pictures taken.
    Here is a photographer basically calling foul on her rant.

    Open Response to Taylor Swift

  70. How else do we listen to new music by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We stream something, heck I never heard of taylor swift until I streamed something and then her song came on next....she's just being selfish....

    Presides this is between the record companies and Apple....if they want cash they can just remove themselves but it's still going to run...because Spotify is still up lol. Teens use Spotify and pandora more than anything. My sister doesn't even know what plays CDs, because pretty soon streaming will be all we have....
    plus that's how we find newer bands, do you honestly think people are going to pay for songs witht actually hearing them first.....

    taylor's just money hungry no one else is complaining about this but her, so has anyone else removed their music from Spotify or now iTunes Streaming...no.....just Taylor and this may hurt her in the long run because again people stream first..

  71. Very Strong Opinions by youngone · · Score: 0

    I feel very strongly that this young women whose bland, derivative music holds no interest for me should be paid a lot of money by this music service I will actively avoid using.

  72. She's already famous, and she knows it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    She doesn't need any more "free publicity." You may think her reputation isn't great, but that's because you're not her target demographic. This interview also touches on Spotify:
    http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2012/11/09/164742426/the-secret-genius-of-taylor-swift

  73. Meh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We're talking about Taylor Swift. Nothing of value will be lost.

  74. No, you don't have a right to be paid by harryjohnston · · Score: 1

    Copyright exists for the benefit of society, not because artists have "a right to be paid". (They have a right to "demand to be paid", since that's just free speech, but society is entitled to say "sod off" in reply.)

    We're rapidly approaching the point where "sod off" is the most sensible reply - copyright is increasingly working against society rather than for it. This incident is just another brick in the wall.

    1. Re:No, you don't have a right to be paid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Copyright exists for the benefit of society, not because artists have "a right to be paid". (They have a right to "demand to be paid", since that's just free speech, but society is entitled to say "sod off" in reply.)

      We're rapidly approaching the point where "sod off" is the most sensible reply - copyright is increasingly working against society rather than for it. This incident is just another brick in the wall.

      And guess what happens when artists start getting told to "sod off"? They won't share their work with the world.

    2. Re:No, you don't have a right to be paid by harryjohnston · · Score: 1

      The ones who want to make money won't. So what?

    3. Re:No, you don't have a right to be paid by Tamerlin · · Score: 1

      The ones who want to make money won't. So what?

      First off, copyright exists to protect the people who create the work, not to protect society. The whole point is to ensure that if someone creates a product that someone else wants such as a song, they have a right to demand to be paid for it in return for letting you listen to it.

      It's true that if you go and randomly dig a ditch, there's no reason that you should get paid for it, but by your logic, you don't deserve to get paid for building a house that someone asked you to build. So it's YOU that doesn't deserve to get paid, not everyone else.

    4. Re:No, you don't have a right to be paid by harryjohnston · · Score: 1

      Nonsense. There's no ethical justification for copyright other than its benefit to society. You're not automatically entitled to government protection simply because without it your business model doesn't work.

      If we one day develop a machine that can duplicate, say, apples, we're not going to demand that everybody pay the person who grew the original apple before they eat one of the duplicates. So why should we pay the person who recorded the song before we listen to a copy of it?

      (It's more complicated than that, of course; artists have invested time and money into their work precisely because we promised them they would be paid for it, so it wouldn't be ethical to simply abolish copyright outright. We'd have to have some sort of grandfather clause and/or compensation. And its not likely to happen anyway, because the people that benefit most from corporate welfare schemes such as copyright have too much influence. But it's important to realize where copyright came from if we're going to resist even more encroachments on our personal rights.)

    5. Re:No, you don't have a right to be paid by Tamerlin · · Score: 1

      No, you have copyright completely backward. The point is to prevent intellectual theft by companies like apple. The goal is to enable people who create new products to be compensated for them, and to have a way to enforce their right to get paid when companies like apple try to steal from them... like apple wants to do here.

      If I develop a product such a film that people are interested in seeing, then I have a right to charge a fee to let them see it. Copyright exists to enable me to enforce that legally if necessary. Without copyright protection, I would have no legal way to enforce my intellectual property. In other worse, without copyright protection, creators can't create. That's how copyright benefits society, not by forcing creators to give their creations away for nothing. Or are you an apple schill trying to defend apple's willingness to steal from a legion of artists for its own benefit?

      A machine that can make apples can be copyrighted, apples cannot. Ergo, your example is horseshit.

      You do have a right to audition a song from a musician before purchasing more, if that's your preference; if the artist in question won't let you audition their music, then it comes down to salesmanship.

      So... either you have a right to get paid for your work, or you're full of shit. If you're only able to come with a random hole as an example, then you should just give up and admit that you have no value to society. If someone needs a hole dug and you dig it for them, you have a right to be compensated, so once again your example is horseshit.

      If someone has a product that you want, then you should compensate them for it. If you aren't interested, then you should not. That is the heart of capitalism, and whether you like Taylor Swift or not, it's what her letter is about.

    6. Re:No, you don't have a right to be paid by harryjohnston · · Score: 1

      "If I develop a product such a film that people are interested in seeing, then I have a right to charge a fee to let them see it." ... of course, so long as you maintain possession. As soon as you sell someone a copy, what right do you have to prevent them from copying it again, if they are capable of doing so?

      (If I sell someone a hammer, I don't get to charge them on a per-nail basis for the rest of eternity!)

      "That's how copyright benefits society" ... YES. Copyright exists because it was believed that the benefit to society (more art) would outweigh the costs. But if that is no longer true, then copyright should be abolished. And I believe we're rapidly reaching that point.

      "A machine that can make apples can be copyrighted, apples cannot." ... now you're just arguing in circles. *Why* can't apples be copyrighted? Why would it be ethical to copy apples, but not films?

      "If someone needs a hole dug and you dig it for them," ... but that's not how copyright works. Of course an artist can refuse to work unless someone agrees in advance to pay them for it. You don't need copyright for that.

      "If someone has a product that you want" ... if the artist *literally* has the product, then of course they can charge you for it. But if I can obtain the same product from someone else - because they purchased it from the artist *and then made a copy* - then the analogy falls down.

      The problem is that you're trying to pretend that an abstract concept - a series of zeros and ones - must be treated as though it had a real, concrete existence, must be someone's "property". And that's simply not true. It is *convenient* for us to treat an abstract work of art as if it were concrete, and to assign a limited form of ownership to it on that basis - but it is not *mandatory*.

  75. Fox robs hen house by plopez · · Score: 1

    film at 11.

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  76. Apple has given up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-22/apple-agrees-to-pay-musicians-during-free-trial-techcrunch-ib7dzq7a

    Congrats to Miss Swift.

    1. Re:Apple has given up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://recode.net/2015/06/21/apple-says-it-will-pay-taylor-swift-for-free-streams-after-all/

      says during free period artists will be paid on yet-undisclosed per stream basis.

  77. Apple using contractual rights! Throw a hissy fit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Either Apple has the legal right to do this, via agreement's with the artists or the artist's labels (which the artists themselves had to agree to at some point) or they're going to be prosecuted like any pirate radio station broadcasting music without licensing.

    I suspect that Apple has the legal right to do this, and the artists should shut up and pay more attention to what they sign next time.

  78. Collapse of reality-distortion wave function? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > "shocking, disappointing, and completely unlike this historically progressive and generous company."

    IANAQP (I am not a quantum physicist), but to me, this loud *pop* has the distinctive sound of the collapse of a wave function underlying a reality-distortion field. What could that be? What could that be?

  79. It worked: Apple is going to pay by tkuCheck · · Score: 1

    Eddy Cue's tweet in respinse to Taylor Swift's letter: "#AppleMusic will pay artist for streaming, even during customer’s free trial period"

  80. Apple has folded - Will pay artists during trial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Confirmed this morning - Swift and other artists win this round, and rightfully so, truth is Apple had no good defense.

  81. Free Music Download Music Update New 2015 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ist The Best Music Download http://sultralagu.wapka.mobi

  82. Just don't get it by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    The problem is, the music isn't the artist's property. The labels claim all the rights. The artists theoretical royalties invariably end up being a shit sandwich, without much bread. The labels signed the deal with Apple, because they know that the artists have signed away all their rights already.

    I just don't get why there are still these middle men (always men) in this time where an artist can literally directly connect with their fans (more pointedly: patrons). Is it just about the bandwidth?

  83. Re:Apple using contractual rights! Throw a hissy f by naughtynaughty · · Score: 1

    Having the legal right to do something does not mean people don't have the right to protest. Taylor Swift spoke up and Apple changed. A much better approach than your suggestion that people just STFU.

  84. Re:Clean my house for free. It's recognition! by iamacat · · Score: 1

    you hire other people to clean houses

    Here we go again! These artists are not losing any money or time to have their tracks played to a wider audience. They are just gaining potential new revenue in future. What Apple should have done is let artists opt out of the free trial and take a chance that people will establish different listening habits in the meantime.

  85. Recognition won't pay the bills by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 2

    Your model is basically saying that since the artists already did the work, "they're not losing any money or time" if somebody else gives away their music for free.

    Yes, you can say that. After all, why should you ever pay any artist? They already did the work, so they aren't losing any money, right? People are merely using their work for free without paying.

    Here's the problem: "recognition" doesn't pay bills. It's nice, it's flattering, it's great for the ego, and the net result is you starve. Apple's business model is that artists should be happy that Apple had decided to give their music away for free in order to promote Apple's new business, and they seem surprised that artists actually would prefer to be paid.

    Here's a tip for you, for future reference in case it ever happens to you: when you're being told "you work for free, and maybe sometime later I'll pay you", no matter how good it sounds, the deal is always going to be to the advantage of the corporation getting the free work, and not necessarily for you.

    Well, Apple backed down, at least a little. Good for them. Horray for Taylor Swift.

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    1. Re:Recognition won't pay the bills by iamacat · · Score: 1

      This is simply not the way to run any business that makes most money from repeat customers, let alone one with no marginal costs. People will not suddenly stop listening to music after 3 months. If I was a musician participating in Apple music, I would be much more worried about their conversion rate, ongoing pay rate and discovery of my songs in the service. Speaking from experience of marketing a photo app and giving away free printed photos in all kind of kids events to jump start word of the mouth awareness.

      If you in a mortuary business, maybe things are different. But for everyone else recognition is exactly what opens up possibility of paying the bills.

  86. Which is more than I can say for Swift's "music" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    which is only disappointing. I won't even pirate that crap

  87. Re:Why would anybody want to be paid for their wor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    True artists don't care if they get paid so long as their art is seen, heard, felt, or whatever by others. If money comes with it, as it usually does for good artists that people like, then that's a bonus.

    Taylor F'n Switft has most likely made enough she could retire now and live a decently comfortable life without having to do a dang thing more. Whereas that policeman, fireman, teacher, soldier, etc....they have to work hard the rest of their lives just to keep food on the table. Is Taylor Swift gonna help your child succeed in school, or save them from a burning fire, or protect them from foreign enemies? Music is important and gives us joy and entertainment, but it only pays the bills for the greedy @ss pop artists who write the same bullsh*t suck @ss songs over and over again and demand we pay a premium for them. Funny, sounds like another company we're talking about.

  88. Re:Clean my house for free. It's recognition! by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    I don't see why musicians should do things according to how you think best.

    I'm not much of a copyright fan, but this is a matter of commercial use of recent material. I have some sympathy for individual copying for personal use, and I have a lot of sympathy for ignoring older copyrights. This application of copyright is just what copyright was intended for.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  89. Taylor Swift kicks Apple in the balls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I give Swift props for standing up for all artists to a big mega company like Apple. I also wouldn't have ever listened to her stuff if it wasn't for reading articles on her and she's pretty good actually. Saw the full playlist of her album 1989 here: http://www.hautlife.com/news/entertainment-news/789-taylor-swift-wins-battle-with-apple-for-all-musical-artists-videos

  90. vietnam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0