Slashdot Mirror
Cashless Adoption Growing In Europe
dkatana writes: Many European cities are moving toward a cashless economy. Some public services are not accepting cash anymore, such as parking meters, buses and transit, and city offices. (If you plan to visit Europe make sure your credit card has a chip, or you won't be able to use self-service machines.) Contactless cards, which allow people to pay easily for small transactions, are also gaining popularity. According to Finextra, a leading financial news service, "contactless is the new normal in Europe, with more than a billion tap-and-go purchases worth €12.6 billion on Visa cards in the last 12 months."
In some places, cashless options are being pushed by mistrust of the banking system. At the same time, places like Germany are dead set on keeping cash as the preferred method of payment.
Just saying.... :D
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
Cash isn't going anywhere. As soon as the lights go out or the servers are down... you can only can with cash.
Here is a tip: if you don't trust banks, keep cash. Ask the Greeks and Cypriots why.
Governments everywhere will help facilitate a cashless society. Just think of all that purchasing data they can monitor. Not to mention, they can force people to pay local/state/federal sales tax on person-to-person sales (e.g.: Garage Sale items).
....
A truly cashless society is the wet dream of the IRS, FBI, NSA
Some things need to be said...
A cashless society is a surveillance society where every purchase you make is recorded permanently -- not only for government to use against you as they see fit, but for corporations to exploit your lack of privacy for their own profit (not yours).
Wire transfers are extremely common in Europe; virtually instantaneous, cheap, etc. Customers can do them themselves, person to person.
Here in the US? Anywhere from a day to WEEKS for absolutely no legitimate reason. You generally need a teller or branch manager to do it. At least $5; $40 if the transaction ends up going through the Fed.
It's 2015. Why does transferring money in the US take more than a minute and a few cents?
Please help metamoderate.
While it's true that in London the buses no longer take cash (you'll need an Oyster card) that's not the case everywhere - not even everywhere in England. But in many parts of most European countries (yes, Europe isn't even a single country) cash is very much king and it's wrong to assume that a credit card will be universally accepted. Many restaurants outside of cities in lots of countries won't take plastic. So it's wise to have enough cash to cover a transaction, even if you do expect to pay with a card.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
In case you didn't know, the cards that most banks are now issuing in the US are chip and signature, not chip and pin like in Europe, and I understand that there are some spots that DO NOT accept chip and signature, like unattended tolls, unattended gas stations, and possibly some unattended transportation ticket purchases (trains, etc).
Pretty frustrating that credit card issuers decided to go this route in the US with some bullshit justification that people wouldn't know how to use the cards (WTF?).
While the chip and signature is more resistant to skimming and duplication, it is no more secure than the old magnetic stripe cards if your physical card is stolen. I think they did this to prevent an increase in support costs instead (people requesting to reset PIN numbers, etc).
See, with cash, all you can lose is what's in your pocket. With these cashless systems, a crook can clean out your entire bank account.
Fraud protections? Ahahahahaa! See, while they are investigating the theft, your mortgage and other bill payments are bouncing. Now, the mortgage company and everyone else who was being paid charges you late and other fees. When you try to explain to them what happened, they just say, "Fuck you! Pay me!"
Although, the CFPB here in the States has been a WONDERFUL agency (God Bless Elizabeth Warren!) for helping with the unethical and illegal bullshit that the banks and other financial institutions have been pulling. But the Republicans want to eliminate that wonderful agency because they have been bribed by the big banks and because of their delusional belief in the Free Markets.
I use a cc for some purchases.
I NEVER use a debit card...
Since the Target debacle, and many more like it, I have transitioned back to using cash almost exclusively.
It appears to me that a cashless system is less robust and more likely to be taken advantage of by criminals.
So yes, cashless apologists will whine about things like bank robberies, etc, but when it comes to what is best for me, not the bank, I choose cash please.
We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
Governments worldwide, local and federal, increasingly are removing the ability to use cash. They cannot track it or you. Think that's tin foil hat thinking? Think again.
Here is something I know for a fact is happening because I've talked to people in the industry that tracks metrics. Your bank sells information about you to bidders. Your purchase habits, how often, what, where. Guess who is curious and is a buyer? Your insurance companies, health, car, and house. You think for a second your rates are random. They were on the past based on a given area and the demographics. They are now being tailored to you. Those triple meat pizza you order a few times a week are being noted. The condoms, liquor, and glue you buy are likewise noted. The fetishes you have, your peccadilloes, your predilections, you name it are all being tracked, correlated, and used against in decisions about you. Some people know of this, some don't.
When I eat out, I pay cash. When I buy wine and beer, I use cash. When I buy groceries, I use cash. I pay bills and such through my bank's bill pay system. Think this is not happening? Think again. Think your insurance companies don't look at your Facebook and Twitter accounts? Think again. This level of tracking is the new normal. Ever wonder why businesses want you to "friend" and "like" them? Ulterior motives, guys. To be certain. If I cannot pay cash, which, at least in America, is illegal not to accept, I don't play ball. I never give out my personal information, even to coworkers. Only my immediate boss has my mobile number, even the insurance companies don't have my SSN. They are not legally entitled. It took some fighting, and I called the SSA about it, and they said I only have to share it legally with my bank, my employer, and the IRS. No one else is legally entitled. So I refuse to give anyone anything. Yes, I'm a bit of a dick about it, but when I Google myself, my carefully curated life doesn't exist. Except for my name and address, nothing exists.
Some say that nothing having an Internet presence in the form of Facebook, Twitter, Linkedin is damaging, especially for IT guys like me, but I've been in this industry for almost 20 years and have never had an issue with not being found online. Some say increasingly that employers look at all the usual online places and if they cannot find you, you are not worth hiring.
Use cash as much as you can.
They did it as the credit card market is more competitive in the States. Many people have several cards, and the issuers felt that requiring people to remember a PIN would make it less likely that the shopper would choose their card.
Good to see you guys catching up on credit cards. When are you going to finally modernize your banking system as well? ;)
Anyway, I can attest to the point of this article, in Iceland you see those little portable card readers (I don't know what they're called in English, they look like this) everywhere, whether it's someone walking around between tents at a campsite collecting the day's fees or some unknown band playing a little gig in a bar - a lot more often than you see them in the states.
"You see, Government is a system that is based on weapons." -- Timster
My mother sometimes sends me checks from the states. The bank cashiers are always confused by them and have to get their managers, who eventually sign off on them. The last time I was at the bank with a check the cashier spent several minutes insisting to me that they can't accept checks before going back and getting approval.
Checks have no place in this modern world.
"You see, Government is a system that is based on weapons." -- Timster
It's unnecessary what with advances in facial-recognition software and ubiquitous video surveillance.
You're looking for quotes? See my journal.
I'm a Retail Manager A Chip & Pin transaction at the till takes 30 seconds from triggering, Maybe 1/2 to 1/4 of the time for a properly checked Signature. Contactless (which is now at least 10% of my sales) takes 15 seconds. Across thousands of card transactions per day this is moving people through my tills faster meaning I have to have fewer people serving to keep customers moving at the same rate. ANY card that requires only signature that is used to pay in my store has to be verified with a telephone call as a matter of company policy, and we see maybe one such transaction per month. The burden of getting it wrong rests with my store, UK banks now take no responsibility for Signature card fraud.
Full Disclosure: yes, I live in Europe.
The largest cashless credit card payment system in France (Moneo) was just closed down very abruptly. Seems the whole ''cashless''/''contactless'' thing was just not profitable enough -- and not adopted enough -- to be continued.
Read all about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
In a place like Greece, for instance, it is well known that the vast majority of transactions are paid in cash, not using a credit card or anything.
I would take that kind of article with a large grain of salt on the side. Seems to me some bankers are declaring victory even before the war has started...
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
Whether cash or credit, it's all controlled by a cartel of banks.
The more I read about Germany the more I want to move there, "convenience is the death of liberty".
Going cashless is stupid.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
I personally almost never carry cash any more, the only time I really use cash is when out drinking or going to a really tiny corner shop/off licence where they still charge extra to pay by card. I use an oyster card for my public transport (or my debit card if I'm out of credit), and pay for most my small purchases using contact less, I can pay for parking by phone, and I still have a debit and credit card for anything bigger.
Why would I pay for any high value goods in cash, when I can put it on my credit card, get chargeback protection and still not pay any interest on it?
You are proud of being dependent on the system? If there is a a power outage or if the debit system goes down, good luck getting anything without cash.
I recall being at a movie theatre lining up to purchase tickets for a popular title when the debit system went down in the area. Fortunately, I had cash so I was able to get into the theatre and see the film while all of the "winners" with only debit and credit cards got to go home.
Do not bother calling yourself an adult if you do not carry around enough cash in case of an emergency or just simply to pay for really small purchases.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
Cash transactions aren't linked to your name and stored in a database forever, and the cash in your pocket can't be deactivated by banks or a government.
(Yes, some smart Alec will point out ways to track and block bank notes, but this is waaaaaaaaay more difficult and waaaaaaaaaaaay less effective than what banks and governments can do to electronic money.)
Help build the anti-software-patent wiki
In the U.K. you must spend more than GBP 5.00. EUR 7.16. 7.80 USD. before you are allowed to use a debit card, or credit card in shopping centre/shopping complex/shopping mall.
You pulled that out your arse. I live in the UK and use my Debit card all the time and there is *no* simple rule like this, although in my (very considerable) experience the most common case is 'no minimum and no surcharge' for debit cards.
I've also seen the following for Debit cards:
Min £10
Min £5 (common in pubs but not universal)
Min £3 (e.g. one of my local sandwich shops)
No minimum at all - this applies in nearly all major supermarkets and major stores - I bought a sandwich for £2.20 with my card this morning).
No minimum but 50p transaction charge.
Etc.
And then there's a whole different set of charges (sometimes % charges) or lack of charges for credit cards.
Why would you just make up random shit about stuff you obviously know nothing about? Did you go in one shop in the UK once and assume they were all the same?
If you plan to visit Europe make sure your credit card has a chip, or you won't be able to use self-service machines.
No, bring cash! We use debit cards for purchases since most people don't have or use credit cards. Especially smaller shops will refuse your business when you come in with a real credit card and only intend to purchase something below 100 Euro.
Good luck with your Visa or Amex over here ;)
Everyone who buys Wild Hunt will receive 16 specially prepared DLCs absolutely for free, regardless of platform.
Cash won't disappear unless the intent is to cripple the economy. After all, it's easier to slip someone a hundred euro that trade electronic payment details. And I doubt if the EU gov't office drones will accept debit cards for bribes.
The damn thing showed up with only a mag stripe and a 2017 expiration date. This is well after all Target stores switched to chip-compatible readers (after their data breach) and it is well known that the standard abroad is chip and pin.
Even so...my friend on the trip had a Chip+Signature card which was equally annoying. Sure, they can read the chip instead of the magstripe, but they still have to go and find you a pen (waiters often didn't carry them with the CC reader since nobody has to sign things anymore). And it doesn't work on vending machines for things like parking or train tickets since it doesn't have a PIN.
Bottles.
I would love to get some confirmation otherwise.
See Four for information about how the EMV transition will work. Basically there are two entities involved in determining whether to use chip and pin for each transaction. The card issuer has to issue a PIN for the card. The payment processor has to have hardware and infrastructure to verify the PIN in order for the chip and PIN portion to work. The payment processor works on behalf of the merchant accepting the transaction. Everyone wants to pass the financial responsibility of fraud up the chain from merchant to the card issuer. Eventually the US will transition to chip and PIN just to avoid liablity.
There are, at the moment, three issuers of PIN-preferred cards in the United States: United Nations Federal Credit Union, First Tech Federal Credit Union, and Harvard University Employees Federal Credit Union. The first two anyone can join by first becoming a member of a particular nonprofit association. Given a choice, I would go for First Tech (or the Harvard Alumni card if you qualify) since they offer no foreign transaction fees and support all PIN variations (where the PIN can either be verified by the card itself or over the network by the bank); UNFCU only offers no foreign transaction fees on a card with an annual fee (you'd have to decide for yourself if the annual fee is worth the other additional benefits).
There is one other PIN-preferred option, the Diners Club MasterCards issued by BMO Harris Bank. However, they stopped taking applications several months ago and haven't resumed, so they're not an option at present if you don't already have it.
Two other fairly large issuers, USAA and Navy Federal Credit Union, were offering PIN-preferring cards but switched to Signature preferring.
But one question to consider is if you need a PIN-preferring card, or merely one that supports PIN? In the latter case, you'll still sign most of the time but if you encounter a situation where a PIN is required, it will work. Bank of America, Citibank, Wells Fargo, and Synchrony Bank (they issue a lot of affiliate branded cards like Walmart and Banana Republic) all fall into this category. A PIN preferring card would allow you to more easily blend in in Europe, but for now would actually be harder to use in the US; particularly in restaurants since even those that have switched to EMV card readers are still doing the thing where they take your card away from the table, so you'd end up having to go with them to wherever they have the terminal set up to enter your PIN, rather than being like Europe and Canada where the waiter has a portable credit card reader that they bring to your table.
End of Line.
Is cash REALLY that fucking HARD for you guys?
I mean, fuck, SERIOUSLY, can you not just stuff a few bills and coins in your pocket like EVERY SINGLE MOTHERFUCKER SINCE THE DAWN OF TIME HAS DONE?
What the fuck.
All you're doing is giving up your privacy, giving up more of your LIFE and PERSON to be BOUGHT SOLD and CONTROLLED by THE MAN.
All you people demanding "cashless" are just a bunch of STUPID fucking SHEEPLE.
Fuck you, and fuck the GOVT and CORP TEAT you all are sucking on.
Grow some balls and become independant, not dependant.
Fucktards.