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Why Bill Gates Is Dumping Another $1 Billion Into Clean Energy

An anonymous reader writes: A little over a month ago, Bill Gates made headlines when he decided to double down on his investments in renewable energy. Now, he's written an article for Quartz explaining why: "I think this issue is especially important because, of all the people who will be affected by climate change, those in poor countries will suffer the most. Higher temperatures and less-predictable weather would hurt poor farmers, most of whom live on the edge and can be devastated by a single bad crop. Food supplies could decline. Hunger and malnutrition could rise. It would be a terrible injustice to let climate change undo any of the past half-century's progress against poverty and disease — and doubly unfair because the people who will be hurt the most are the ones doing the least to cause the problem." He also says government is not doing enough to fund such research, and that energy markets aren't doing a good enough job of factoring the negative effects of carbon emissions.

248 comments

  1. Why did Larry Ellison buy a Hawaiian Island? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Same answer to both questions.

  2. Plan to take over the world! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you pondering what I'm pondering? Narf

  3. "...those in poor countries will suffer the most." by turkeydance · · Score: 2

    well, yeah.

  4. Guilt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Guilt. That's why.

  5. Does anyone remember... by Sigvatr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Does anyone remember when Bill Gates was evil?

    1. Re:Does anyone remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That was before he was sufficiently rich that he could be noticeably philanthropic without effecting his quality of life.

    2. Re:Does anyone remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah yes the locutus gates avatar. Haven't seen that in a long long time...

    3. Re:Does anyone remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why doesn't he just buy a bigger fucking needle?

    4. Re:Does anyone remember... by Joce640k · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That was when he was running a corporation in a competitive business world.

      (OK, he kept it up for a bit longer than strictly necessary after Microsoft had "won", but that's another story. Plenty of CEOs do worse things than that.)

      --
      No sig today...
    5. Re:Does anyone remember... by murdocj · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sort of like the rest of us.

    6. Re:Does anyone remember... by chris200x9 · · Score: 1

      Pretty much. If I was rich and could still gain ridiculous amounts of wealth while giving billions away why wouldn't I? I mean you are buying good tons of good will while losing nothing, in fact you are still gaining albeit a little more slowly.

    7. Re:Does anyone remember... by Rei · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sometimes their "philanthropy" is self-serving. Paul Allen is currently in my country with his huge-arse luxury yacht with its two helicopters and two submarines, parked not at the harbour because his boat is too big, but just sitting out in the bay blocking the view. But because he explores shipwrecks and the like (something that he does for fun), it's called charity, and he gets welcome to park his floating palace at no cost.

      --
      I'll never forget the last thing grandma said to me before she died: "What are you doing in here with that knife?!?"
    8. Re:Does anyone remember... by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

      "Does anyone remember when Bill Gates was evil?"

      It's the rules. Every rich person who is not arrogant has to be guilt-ridden.

      OR...maybe he's a nerd who, having more money than most of the other nerds, can indulge his geekly interests in a more world-changing way than installing the newest release of Debian and vainly looking for something useful to run on it.

    9. Re:Does anyone remember... by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1

      Is his yacht Octopus still in Reykjavik? Sad he isn't paying harbor fees - he could certainly afford to.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    10. Re:Does anyone remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the rules. Every rich person who is not arrogant has to be guilt-ridden.

      Bah, he can still be arrogant. In fact, he probably is.

      But tax write offs, prestige, political influence ... these are things which billionaires value.

      Assuming Bill Gates isn't an arrogant ass because he makes some charitable donations doesn't mean he's not an arrogant ass.

      He always was, and likely still is.

      Trump is a complete douchebag, but you can bet he still does things to make him look like an philanthropist.

    11. Re:Does anyone remember... by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No. He once ran a company that attempted to push the boundaries of anti-competitive behavior, but that wasn't evil.

      If you don't follow, remember that in American law, anything that is not explicitly forbidden is allowed. And the only way to know if something is forbidden is to :

      1) Do it
      2) Be challenged (a) by someone who can show harm
      3) Have it upheld by the Supreme Court

      Anything else means it's legal, or legal in some part of the country, or technically legal while violating the spirit of the law.

      I remember when Bill Gates was evil, but I was ignorant then. I have since learned the law, the constitution, and relevant ancillary information.

      Challenge for you: Sadeep Napreeka (based on memory, not intended to be an insult) runs the company now, and Windows 10 kinda seems like a privacy nightmare. Comparatively, billg seems tame.

      So if someone should down mod you, it seems natural and fair. Up mod seems kinda shill reinforcing shill.

      Or maybe someone does not understand America.

      Nothing is illegal. Oh, yeah, that should be. Oh and that, and maybe that recent thing. Oh, and let's add that to the list.

      America has allowed numerous terrible behaviours, until they demonstrated social harm.

      Land of the free, and all that.

      Evil has a spiritual connotation. Care to defend?

    12. Re:Does anyone remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Does anyone remember when Bill Gates was evil?

      Pepperidge Farm remembers.

    13. Re:Does anyone remember... by Narcocide · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure this and most the rest of his philanthropic gestures are his wife's ideas.

    14. Re:Does anyone remember... by zennyboy · · Score: 1

      affecting, ffs!

    15. Re:Does anyone remember... by 7-Vodka · · Score: 1
      Yes I remember since earlier this morning.

      Don't
      tell
      me
      you
      believe
      the
      mass
      media.

      Yes because funding BP, Exxon, Monsanto etc is really honorable.

      --

      Liberty.

    16. Re:Does anyone remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fucking Shill.

    17. Re:Does anyone remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Trump is a complete douchebag, but you can bet he still does things to make him look like an philanthropist.

      President douchbag! lol.

    18. Re:Does anyone remember... by microbox · · Score: 1

      Every rich person who is not arrogant has to be guilt-ridden.

      I don't believe that for a second. I guess I've met non-arrogant rich people who are super lovely and moral people.

      --

      Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
    19. Re:Does anyone remember... by microbox · · Score: 2

      Infowars: where the crazies on the left circle around to meet the crazies on the right in an orgy of crank-magnet love.

      --

      Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
    20. Re:Does anyone remember... by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

      " I guess I've met non-arrogant rich people who are super lovely and moral people."

      A know a billionaire couple who are the nicest people you would ever want to meet. They own a closely held company whose name most of us in here would know. Fortunately my town doesn't play by "The Rules" I mentioned above.

      Let the politically frantic stew in their own treasured assumptions.

    21. Re:Does anyone remember... by ClickOnThis · · Score: 2

      He once ran a company that attempted to push the boundaries of anti-competitive behavior

      They attempted, and were convicted of being a monopoly.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    22. Re: Does anyone remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Incredible because if people were $100 better off each year it wouldn't go to charity.

    23. Re:Does anyone remember... by by+(1706743) · · Score: 2

      ...can indulge his geekly interests in a more world-changing way than installing the newest release of Debian and vainly looking for something useful to run on it.

      Wow. That's...a little too close to home. Please think of other people before saying such hurtful things.

    24. Re:Does anyone remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Being a monopoly is not illegal. They were convicted of abusing their monopoly power.

    25. Re:Does anyone remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >implying the Gates Foundation is anything but a massive tax avoidance scheme

    26. Re:Does anyone remember... by davester666 · · Score: 1

      he's already a big enough prick.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    27. Re:Does anyone remember... by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the improvement.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    28. Re:Does anyone remember... by pipingguy · · Score: 2

      This one, I presume: https://www.marinetraffic.com/...

    29. Re:Does anyone remember... by invictusvoyd · · Score: 1

      A few months before Lucifer was I guess .

    30. Re:Does anyone remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Evil? I thought he was just a good businessman. who really gives a shit in the long term scheme of things if humans have to experience clippy for a brief period of history.

    31. Re:Does anyone remember... by jandersen · · Score: 1

      Does anyone remember when Bill Gates was evil?

      Well, if we are to believe the Gospel, we all have the chance to seek redemption, I guess. It isn't exactly a new phenomenon that ultra-rich people end up growing the conscience they should have learned from their parents in childhood - the same happened for Rockefeller and Carnegie, just mention two, and for a number of those that grew rich on exploiting their workers or slaves during the industrial revolution in England.

      I suppose a major factor is also that when you grow older, you discover how futile it is to amass enormous wealth. Objectively speaking, how much wealth can any one person or family sensibly utilise? At the lower end of the scale, you will wish to cover your immediate needs, then maybe a good house, some transport, etc, but at some level it becomes meaningless to add more. People don't really need a 100-room mansion in a 10000 acre garden for their own use, and even the most obscenely luxurious foods and wines become commonplace surprisingly soon. Thus, when you get older, you realise that all you really have is loads of inert gold lying around, figuratively speaking - and conscience is the only thing you don't have in abundance.

    32. Re:Does anyone remember... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      This is also true of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. They donate a huge amount of 'free' medicine around the world to poor countries. There's only one very small catch: if you accept the donation (which it's basically impossible to refuse when it is likely to save millions of lives in your country) you have to sign a one-sided IP protection treaty with the USA. Not pushed by the B&MGF, you understand, it's a requirement of the pharmaceutical companies providing the drugs. The fact that it happens to significantly benefit the investments of the major donors of the foundation is purely coincidental, as is the long-term harm that it does to developing economies.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    33. Re:Does anyone remember... by mp.zwiers · · Score: 1

      Interesting, because this is one of the fundamental differences between the US and Europe. In Europe we distinguish between the strict interpretation of the law and the intention of the law. I am not a lawyer, but what I understood is that here in the Netherlands we even have this incorporated in our laws, in the form that one is supposed to act within the law but also using his common sense (especially when something is not that clear from the law). Unfortunately, the trend here is towards the US system, and as a consequence we now see a growing "claim-culture".

    34. Re:Does anyone remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do you mean?

      He's building up leverage in the form of intellectual property.

    35. Re:Does anyone remember... by smallfries · · Score: 1

      Would this be of the nature: we will give you these drugs if you agree to enact a law that prevents you from cloning them and making more?

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
    36. Re:Does anyone remember... by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      remember that in American law, anything that is not explicitly forbidden is allowed

      Note that this is true for pretty much any legal system that is not arbitrary and capricious.

      If the government can nail you for anything that is not explicitly allowed, then you have a lot bigger problems than a few billionaires.

      As an example, did you know that there's not a law in the USA that explicitly states that you're allowed to own a home?

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    37. Re:Does anyone remember... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      Yes, that's what the pharma companies want. The terms are a bit more far reaching (i.e. you must also respect US patents, including software patents). If the drugs are patented, then no producing them locally. If they actually wanted to make a difference, then they'd fund building factories in countries that don't respect these patents and mass produce them for local consumption. They'd help bootstrap the local industry and they'd end up delivering the drugs much more cheaply.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    38. Re:Does anyone remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You seem to be equating the law with morality. Or you're being really really sarcastic. I'm not sure which. You can be evil while staying within the letter of the law, and you can break the law daily while retaining your morality. The law, as you correctly identify, does not promote or enforce good morals, not does it prevent bad or evil acts, it merely forbids some things that cause proven (and typically financial) harm. So your post could be paraphrased as follows:

      (1) I'm going to state that his acts weren't evil
      (2) Then I'm going to talk about an irrelevant subject for quite some time
      (3) Then I'm going to claim that evil has a spiritual connotation, despite this also being irrelevant even if it were true.

      How is anyone supposed to "defend" against nonsense like this? He says billg was evil (not even super-seriously I might add) and you say he was too. That's all we've got here. You haven't really earned a response on the subject at hand.

    39. Re:Does anyone remember... by jkrise · · Score: 1

      He is still the largest shareholder in the 'Evil' company.

      He still has the power to set right the source code of Windows, so as to completely remove any necessity of running any anti-virus software, just like on Linux PCs and Macs. Around 2 billion devices are said to be running Windows, so this single "Good Deed" alone will result in energy savings of atleast 2000 MWhrs per day.

      But Bill will not do that. Instead he will criticise governments and pay lip service to poverty alleviation and the Press will lap it up, and declare him as Better than God!

      --
      If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
    40. Re:Does anyone remember... by Barbecue911 · · Score: 1

      Just because they confounded Microsoft doesn't mean Paul Allen and Bill Gates have the same attitude toward spending their excess cash. Both obviously can afford to splurge the way we normal folks can't, but one owns a couple of sports teams. Guess who?

    41. Re:Does anyone remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does anyone remember when Bill Gates was evil? - He may have been evil but why all this rewriting of history all the computer\software compnies were using the same tatics playing the same games . his outstanding crime? He won the war.

    42. Re: Does anyone remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Paying corrupted government money for giving up Linux is good business?

    43. Re:Does anyone remember... by silentcoder · · Score: 2

      Legal and illegal are not synonyms for good and evil.
      In secular, free countries - quite deliberately so.

      Legal and illegal exist to maintain social order and allow society to continue to function.
      Good and evil are measurements of behavior based, primarily, on the consequences of that behavior.

      There can be overlap between the two, but they are not the same.

      While there can be a lot of philosophical debate about this (and how ideas of good and evil differ between different subgroups in society) there is a fundamental difference in design: good and evil considerations try to prohibit behavior of one kind while mandating other behavior.
      Legal and illegal only prohibits behavior of one kind, it does mandate what you do instead.

      In tribalist societies all that is not forbidden is mandated, they have turned good/evil into synonyms for legal/illegal but in free societies this is not true, we only prohibit evil - we do not MANDATE good. You're allowed to follow any alternative you desire.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    44. Re:Does anyone remember... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      I'm not so sure. Her last big idea was Microsoft Bob after all...

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    45. Re:Does anyone remember... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      You must have never actually experienced Clippy whose full names were, I believe, Lucifer Satan Beelzebub Clippy o'Doom.

      To be fair though. Clippy was not the main thing we saw him as evil for, in the grand scheme of things it's probably his least significant crime (which is a bit like saying Hannibal Lector's least brutal slaying but nevermind). What we saw him as evil for were the EULAs and the false marketing and the embrace-and-extinguish approach and trying to claim patent ownership over the kernel etc. etc.

      Microsoft still does most of that stuff, the difference is they lost the power for it to matter as much as it once did - Apple is the bigger evil today.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    46. Re:Does anyone remember... by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      Careful there partner, ignorance of the law is no excuse, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.... About the dumbest thing you can do is experiment with what is illegal and what is legal upon a trial and error basis. Best way to find out if something is forbidden, do some research or pay a lawyer to do it for you.

      The Evil in relation to M$ was a relative evil based upon technological and social uses, so not to be confused with the serious evil of the military industrial complex or the corrupt pharmaceutical corporations (they actually run around killing people for fun a profits) and for example, not as evil as Monsanto (they earn a category of evil unique to them).

      The most evil thing they did was to attack customers who were looking into and recommending Linux is a business sense and try to slander them as supporting terror groups and organised crime, along with labelling them a cancerous viral communists (that was done at the highest level in M$ and spread into every media outlet that would let them). Then there was the attempt to corrupt international standards and turn it into standards for the highest bidder, that was also pretty evil. The Windows 10 invasion of privacy, seriously the contents of local storage, that's pretty evil too.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    47. Re:Does anyone remember... by delt0r · · Score: 1

      Someone doesn't understand basic tax laws. Hint giving away 1B does not save you 1B or more in taxes.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    48. Re: Does anyone remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bravo Raven,Something I Didn't Know

    49. Re:Does anyone remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's still evil. The spin is what is different.

      Don't kid yourself with that cocky bastard and his abuse of presidential orders(balance of powers? we don't need no stinking balance of powers I'm teh god emperor) Gates will make a fsckton of money off of that investment.

    50. Re: Does anyone remember... by JazzLad · · Score: 1

      So you're a proponent of wealth redistribution?

      --
      "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." - Every fascist, ever
    51. Re:Does anyone remember... by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 1

      That was before he was sufficiently rich that he could be noticeably philanthropic without effecting his quality of life.

      Bullshit. Bill Gates's net worth peaked in 1999 with Microsoft's stock price. He has gotten significantly less rich since then and has donated far more money.

    52. Re:Does anyone remember... by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      remember that in American law, anything that is not explicitly forbidden is allowed.

      That's not strictly true. There are lots of catch-all laws, like "wanton and reckless conduct," where an act is not explicitly forbidden, but is deemed illegal nonetheless, and they're upheld by the courts all the time.

    53. Re:Does anyone remember... by sg_oneill · · Score: 1

      I wonder though if thats Bill Gates acting from his own conviction. Bill Gates has been singularly obsessed with IP rights right from the Altair 800 days when he penned his "open letter to hobbyists" thing and confused the hell out of everyone by claiming his software was copyrighted (prior to this code was seen as just stuff that made the hardware work. you paid for the hardware). I think he really believes this to be the right way to go. I mean I dont think he's being malicious,its just his ideological blinkers at work.

      --
      Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
    54. Re:Does anyone remember... by randallman · · Score: 1

      Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's not wrong or harmful.

      Stacking the ISO committee to ram through OOXML was wrong and harmful, but legal. Breaking Java on Windows was wrong and harmful. The "embrace, extend, and extinguish" tactic used often as with Kerberos was wrong and harmful, but legal.

      I think the term evil is misused here on slashdot and I wouldn't call Microsoft's acts evil. I would call it despicable. I would call it dishonorable. That anyone would think this is a good thing just makes me sad.

    55. Re:Does anyone remember... by 7-Vodka · · Score: 1
      Nice cocoon of ignorance you have there. You have an ad-hominem style bias against one source, so you ignore it plus the 6 other sources linked without fact checking a single one.

      Yes infowars makes money from hysteria. Guess what so does the mainstream media. IW are also the first ones to break major stories sometimes that are released as 'news' by the mass media a decade later.

      --

      Liberty.

    56. Re: Does anyone remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Incredible because if people were $100 better off each year it wouldn't go to charity.

      It wouldn't go to global spyware either. Incredible?
      It wouldn't go to global crashware either. Incredible?

      The point remains: Bill passing out a fraction of consumer's money spent on Windows is not remotely as much money as if consumer's spent that same money on charity instead.

      Linux is way better and a free download. distrowatch.com
      Emphasis: Linux is way better than Windows

      If you need links to what runs on Linux vs what runs on Windows, ask here sure.
      You can start with: www.microsoft.com runs on Linux. http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report/

      You can also use Google to search yourselves. Google as in: Hi-we-run-on-Linux and also distribute Android-which-is-Linux.

      Practically everything in cyberspace runs on Linux now. What doesn't, is probably BSD. eg. www.freebsd.org runs on FreeBSD. Why? BSD is cool.

      Nobody said people have donated $100 a year to charity.

      (I am the AC with the links above)

      Windows is death knell.

    57. Re:Does anyone remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bill Gates doesn't seem arrogant to me. His clothing and haircut say lots, but the fact that he goes out to areas ridden with disease, he drank a glass of water converted from pure shit, he did the ice bucket challenge, he released mosquitoes into an auditorium, he has poked fun at himself in interviews and in the Vista commercial.

      Now think of someone who really is an arrogant sack of shit, like Larry Ellison. You would never see him doing any of those things. He's too busy wearing flashy clothes, speeding around in his sports cars and banging young, Japanese girls and crying over the loss of his bestest ever buddy Steve Jobs in his Japanese tea gardens on his own Hawaiian island. He would never give to charity and he would never, ever make fun of himself.

  6. Dumping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Why use the word "dumping"? Sounds incredibly biased to me.

  7. For The Same Reason... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...he dumped a billion dollars into Windows Vista, Windows CE, Windows ME, and Zune. a) He's fallible. b) He has too much money to care about losing a billion large.

  8. Re:"...those in poor countries will suffer the mos by Joce640k · · Score: 2
    --
    No sig today...
  9. Fallacy of Climate Control by BoRegardless · · Score: 0, Troll

    One of the richest farmland valleys in the world gave great wealth to its country and did so for "eons."

    Then a change in the weather caused rainfall to drop by 30% and eventually by something around 80% and the farmland wealth 'evaporated.'

    This all occurred a couple thousand years or more before Christ, when the inland valley that was originally a terrific growing area suffered a natural change of world weather which dried it up. That was not caused by man-made activity. It can and will happen again. Man has never had enough power to turn the weather "back" to reclaim the inland growing area of Egypt.

    1. Re:Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right! Let me bow down to your anecdotal evidence and start ignoring what 95+% of the scientists say.

    2. Re:Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is the topic of Egypt's historical agricultural fertility relevant to this thread or your title?

      None of these three things (Bill Gate's actions, a "fallacy", Egypt's historical agricultural fertility) seem connected by more than innuendo. Care to elaborate?

    3. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And let's not forget the Sahara desert (which makes up 8% of the total landmass) was once a thriving jungle up until 4500 years ....The list goes on and on but alarmist extremists, like creationists, not only think that climate change is man made but that it has only existed for a hundred years.

    4. Re:Fallacy of Climate Control by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's his own money. Who cares if it's a fallacy? The reality is, eventually we're going to need to switch to renewable energy. Non-renewable energy will run out by definition.

      So if he wants to put his money into that, it might make the world a better place. And if it ends up with cheaper energy for everybody, it will make the world a better place. The cheaper energy becomes, the better.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    5. Re:Fallacy of Climate Control by tom229 · · Score: 2

      I'm pretty sure there are clear probable causes to the climate change in Egypt and they have to do with the end of the last ice age. Now, what causes ice ages? There's many theories but no one knows. Many theories, such as the changing of Earth's eccentricity, have a good reasoned basis supported by evidence. Others, like crustal displacement, are completely speculative. The truth is, nobody knows, and with regards to anthropomorphic planet warming: it doesn't matter. The question is: do emission from our industrial society impact the climate? I'm not an expert in the field, but nearly all the actual experts seem to agree that they do.

      --
      If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
    6. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      alarmist extremists [...] not only think that climate change is man made but that it has only existed for a hundred years.

      I don't know who you mean by "alarm extremists", so I can't comment on your claim.

      I (and most rational, informed people) agree with your inference that changes in the climate are natural, and consequently have been occurring for as long as there has been a climate. Arid lands have become fertile and vice versa.

      The "alarming" thing (for informed, environmentally conscious people) about current and projected climate changes is their scale (both in geographic spread and systematic variation in weather patterns) and the speed with which these changes occur. Human induced greenhouse gas emissions and land-use changes are a significant driver of the magnitude and speed of these changes (95% of scientists, etc., thousands of peer reviewed scientific articles, specific citation surely not needed.)

      The reason these changes are "alarming" is that the Earth's climate is currently fairly friendly to humans - tropical diseases remain in the tropics, food crops are fairly reliable, flooding destroys vast swathes of land slower than can be repaired, etc. All these things are changing with the changes in climate, changing for the worse. So your inference about climate change being natural is true (and unchallenged), however it is irrelevant to those of us who care about reducing climate changes to improve the living conditions for humanity.

    7. Re:Fallacy of Climate Control by Crashmarik · · Score: 0

      That would be verified historical evidence.

      What you are citing as rebuttal is speculation.

    8. Re:Fallacy of Climate Control by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      People have been able to change the environment for ages (and the climate depends somewhat on the environment). Deforestation and overgrazing, for example. Done on a large enough scale such things will change the climate downwind. Vegetation affects the albedo and temperature and rate of evaporation and also particulates and volatile organic compounds -- global CO2 changes are not the only way to affect climate.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    9. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another denying fool ignores the facts.

    10. Re:Fallacy of Climate Control by microbox · · Score: 1

      I see, because one thing happened once in one time, then 99% of scientists are wrong about climate change!!! Genius!!!

      --

      Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
    11. Re:Fallacy of Climate Control by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      Man has never had enough power to turn the weather "back" to reclaim the inland growing area of Egypt.

      Man never used to be able to fly, or communicate across continents or take detailed photos of the surface of other worlds either yet here we are. And none of those feats were achieved by people who gave up trying.
      Climate is complicated, but not impossible.

    12. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All of which is based on a hypothetical model of a hypersensitive climate system that has run out of control. The alarmism is a figment of their imaginations despite the fact that emperical evidence has consistently proven long term predictions of every kind wrong for over 50 years now.

    13. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Man has never had enough power to turn the weather "back" to reclaim the inland growing area of Egypt.

      Man has no reason to bother to try. It is easier to move elsewhere to grow food. Nobody is going to bother closing the Straits of Gibraltar to make Atlantropa a reality either.

      I doubt anybody will even try to refill the Great Basin or the Chad Basin.

      But check the mouth of the Colorado.

    14. Re:Fallacy of Climate Control by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      Sorry if you are comprehension challenged and just dislike anything that might contradict your opinion.

      Here are a few things that might help you in the future.

      Anecdote : an account regarded as unreliable or hearsay

      Speculation: ideas or guesses about something that is not known

    15. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      95% say that humans play a small part in climate change just as phytoplankton and other life play a part as well. Only a few say that man is the driving force but the media and politicians have to sensationalize everything so now we have a bunch of alarmist nutjobs screaming their heads off.

    16. Re:Fallacy of Climate Control by ClickOnThis · · Score: 2

      That would be verified historical evidence.

      What you are citing as rebuttal is speculation.

      "Speculation?" That's a highly disingenuous dismissal of the efforts of thousands of scientists who have devoted their careers to uncovering the truth.

      Science is hard. Dismissing what scientists say is easy.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    17. Re:Fallacy of Climate Control by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      Science is not a religion learn the difference.

    18. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by k6mfw · · Score: 1

      I want to add if the rains never return to Calif, this will be very serious. I agree the climate is changing and if people want to deny or argue against... but again if the rains don't return? Why are we having arguments about climate change?

      --
      mfwright@batnet.com
    19. Re:Fallacy of Climate Control by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

      Science is not a religion learn the difference.

      I assure you, I'm quite aware of the difference. More than you are, I suspect.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    20. Re:Fallacy of Climate Control by Crashmarik · · Score: 0

      Doubtful on both counts.

    21. Re:Fallacy of Climate Control by jimtheowl · · Score: 1

      And, he's dumping far more money into slashdot to make sure he's being talked about.. so yeah, who cares? It's making slashdot a better place!

    22. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Renewable energy is a misnomer or worse yet, a fallacy. In fact it would be better labled as a capitalist term than that of science since it violates several fundemental laws the most prevalent of which is that you cannot create something from nothing and have it endlessly regenerate. In fact, so called clean energy technologies produce much more waste than that of nuclear since their life spans degrade much more rapidly due to environmental exposure.

    23. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody is denying climate change. What realists deny is media and politicians misconstruing it all. I mean it wasn't long ago that alarmists were calling it global warming but when their predictions failed you guys started calling it what skeptics have always called it: climate change. And now you guys are even misconstruing that into something else entirely as if it were something can fought or prevent. Seriously, alarmists are out of their minds if they think they can fight something that has been changing since Earth formed...all you can do is adapt.

    24. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      95% say that humans play a small part ... Only a few say that man is the driving force

      Wrong. 100% say that humans play some part. 95% calculate that the human release of sequestered carbon is the primary driver of observed climate change over the last century.

      Of course they are wrong since God alone could change climate, and science is the work of Satan.

    25. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The alarmism is a figment of their imaginations despite the fact that emperical evidence has consistently proven long term predictions of every kind wrong for over 50 years now.

      Yeah in 1988 they predicted that temperatures would continue to rise if we kept burning coal. How wrong was that? Temperatures have plummeted and we are now back down to pre-industrial revolution levels, aren't we?

      Fuckin' alarmists, they got out of Pompeii at the first sign of trouble and spread their damn alarmist genes through the population.

    26. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Capsaicin · · Score: 1

      I want to add if the rains never return to Calif, this will be very serious.

      It seems unlikely that the rains will never return. The more serious threat of climate change over the longer term is that drought patterns may be exacerbated.

      Those claiming that rains will not only find themselves discredited when the rains return (as they assuredly will), they will have provided more ammunition to those determined to stymie meaningful action on anthropogenic Global Warming. Don't do it!

      --
      Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
    27. Re:Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty sure there are clear probable causes to the climate change in Egypt and they have to do with the end of the last ice age.

      Ridiculous. It had to do with Pharaoh refusing the let Moses and his people go. I dunno ... scientists!

    28. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All of which is based on a hypothetical model of a hypersensitive climate system that has run out of control.

      There is no issue of control. The climate is simply a set of natural processes obeying the laws of physics. Tweak the inputs and you'll change the outputs. Increase the net adsorption of heat from the sun faster than the oceans can soak it up and the surface temperature will increase. It's just physics. Arguing against it is akin to arguing against gravity.

      ... emperical evidence has consistently proven long term predictions of every kind wrong for over 50 years now.

      Citation please. A real citation, published in a peer reviewed mainstream scientific journal. Note that we've only had computers fast enough to model the climate since the 90's. Whose predictions are you referring to in the 25 years before that?

      If you have trouble finding a suitable citation it should indicate that your beliefs are unsubstantiated and due for reassessment. There's no shame in that.

    29. Re:Fallacy of Climate Control by Required+Snark · · Score: 4, Interesting
      You've revealed a key component of the conservative world view. if you are a Capitalist Making Big Money then everything you do is good, and all your opinions are validated by your wealth. Spending vast sums on idiosyncratic projects (Ellison/sailboats, Bezos/Blue Origin) is your God given right because you made all that money. It is yours to do as you please.

      Unless you take the money you've made and do something that contradicts conservative dogma (climate change), at which point your previously unimpeachable opinions are all wrong and you are wasting (i.e. dumping) your fortune. Obviously you have had some sort of mental breakdown. You and your projects are then open to endless criticism. All that stuff about the freedom to spend your money any way you want goes right out the window (or Windows in this case).

      Hypocritical much?

      --
      Why is Snark Required?
    30. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sources

    31. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not so. Many, many reputable scientists believe that natural factors overpower the current influence of CO2 on global warming. Several hundred prominent scientists and/or science professors that have no ties to the petroleum industry have stated publicly that CO2 is not a significant cause of global warming. Over 30,000 more, including 9,000 PhDs have stated man-made CO2 is not expected to cause catastrophic warming.

    32. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't need a peer reviewed paper to see all of the failed predictions made by peer reviewed research.

      This should get you started:http://m.newstalk1130.com/onair/common-sense-central-37717/a-brief-history-of-fantastically-wrong-13189636/

      However I dare you to show me one that has come true.

    33. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by shilly · · Score: 1

      Prevalent does not mean what you think it means.

    34. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      citation ?

    35. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by polar+red · · Score: 1

      Temperatures have plummeted

      SOURCE ?

      --
      Yes, I'm left. You have a problem with that?
    36. Re:Fallacy of Climate Control by Bongo · · Score: 1

      One of the richest farmland valleys in the world gave great wealth to its country and did so for "eons."

      Then a change in the weather caused rainfall to drop by 30% and eventually by something around 80% and the farmland wealth 'evaporated.'

      This all occurred a couple thousand years or more before Christ, when the inland valley that was originally a terrific growing area suffered a natural change of world weather which dried it up. That was not caused by man-made activity. It can and will happen again. Man has never had enough power to turn the weather "back" to reclaim the inland growing area of Egypt.

      Quoting you in full because you were modded "troll".

      And reading Gates' piece, he exactly admits this. Wind and solar can't get us there, and the climate changes ANYWAY. So for Gates, the ACTUAL problem, which he says, is very simple: we all need cheap abundant energy.

      And that's where environmentalism splits into the two threads: man is a scourge and we need to deindustrialise and stop growth, v. all human beings, wherever they are born, deserve health and prosperity.

      When a natural disaster hits a poor country, it doesn't have the resources to cope, and many people die. When a natural disaster hits a wealthy country, people cope far better. For starters, they probably have better building codes. And then, they have better emergency services and so on. That's the kind of help that the poor of the world need against any and all disasters.

      And to get that they need development and resources and to get there cheaply and quickly. Ie. better technology.

      Of course some new tech brings new evils, but if you think the world is overpopulated, and over consuming, what you gonna do? Tell people to just stop? That only delays the inevitable. And it is inevitable if you don't invent better tech.

      Humanity has always been fighting for survival in the environment. We ill go the way of the dinosaurs if we can't invent better tech. Anything else is just delaying the an inevitable collapse.

    37. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Prevalent as in widespread knowledge. Prehaps you should work on your comprehension skills...

    38. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      Earth is a system with nuclear energy inputs (Sun, internal decay) that in human time scales are effectively endless. Limited, but endless. That's all there is to it.

    39. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Please engage sarcasm detector, then read it again.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    40. Re:Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tilting at windmills much? OP didn't say anything remotely resembling your rant.

    41. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not very witty....And that still doesn't negate the fact that solar technology has a relatively short life span of 10-30 years and will most definitely generate a nasty amount of waste due to them all always having to be replaced. Not to mention, the next generaton (iv)of reactors are expected to last 150+ years, are a hell of a lot cleaner, and safer.

    42. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A real definition of anecdote:

      noun, plural anecdotes or for 2, anecdota [an-ik-doh-tuh] (Show IPA)
      1.
      a short account of a particular incident or event, especially of an interesting or amusing nature.
      2.
      a short, obscure historical or biographical account.

      Your version is not necessarily inaccurate, but it is not exclusive.

    43. Re:Fallacy of Climate Control by drew870mitchell · · Score: 1

      If you are both politically conservative (American style) and an AGW denier (*) it's a very common device to distract with accounts of nature-generated climate change, as if the existence of the natural phenomenon implies that the manmade phenomenon could not also exist. I wouldn't have broadened this discussion in the way Required Snark did but if you're familiar at all with the way these topics go you'll understand why he did.

      * I tried to word this in the most accurate fashion possible. Not all conservatives are AGW deniers, not all AGW deniers are conservatives; even if you do live in the intersection, you don't necessarily use the sloppy rhetoric that I laid out.

    44. Re:Fallacy of Climate Control by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      "Speculation," You mean like everything in your post...

    45. Re:Fallacy of Climate Control by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      But you seem to be adhering to religion, so your point is....

    46. Re:Fallacy of Climate Control by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      And you are a Luddite...

    47. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, co2 emissions don't effect global warming which has been a known fact for a long time now but for whatever reason alarmists hold on it. Probably because is was their most powerful argument in 1999 but then the global temperature ceased to rise and fell despite the fact that co2 concentrations were ever increasing....

    48. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      Get off your ass and look it up. It's not hard to fine. IPCC would be a start or NOAA.

    49. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, co2 emissions don't effect global warming which has been a known fact for a long time now but for whatever reason alarmists hold on it. Probably because it was their most powerful argument in 1999 but then the global temperature ceased to rise and then fell despite the fact that co2 concentrations were ever increasing....

    50. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention, alarmists are so stuck on a one sided track that they don't even consider that perhaps the rise in co2 may in fact be causing the world to cool...but they'll never study from any other perspective other than the one that grants them the most funding.

    51. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by shilly · · Score: 1

      As I said, prevalent does not mean what you think it means. I understood the intent behind your sentence perfectly well. I just despaired, ever so slightly, about your mangling of the English language.

    52. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fist of all, the ipcc reports are political documents which have been consistently wrong from the beginning. Second, NOAA is one of the sources that has consistently proven the IPCC wrong by providing emperical evidence.

    53. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh I'm very much attuned to rhe English language. So much so that I'm well aware that its a natural language riddled with ambiguity and bigotry and for it to be declared as a global auxlang after ww2 (instead of French) has done nothing but bring less than clarity to our digital age since context and emotion was never inscribed. Afterall, english is 'the language of the angels' according to the religious fanatics who invented it...Angolo Saxons.

    54. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fyi i dant rly car ef my inglish iz tearablz sins grAmer and funtxhuation waz never set in stone...ever. In fact, english is a hyper malleable language given the fact that most groups of people had to alter their natural languages to fit in with ours....prime example...pin yin.

    55. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I love how agw apologists comtradict themselves...

    56. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agw apologists trying to make up for the fallacies of your kin...cute

    57. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All in all, there's no such thing as proper english since its a natural language. Even more so ever since it became an auxiliary language which in turn has generated hundreds of dialects...

      Lol

    58. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His point is the power of the 97% compells you!

      Begone demon!

    59. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A realist walks by and asks: "what facts?"

    60. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While some say the human ingenuity is the spirit of mankind... Some would say it's our downfall.

    61. Re:Fallacy of Climate Control by Nahor · · Score: 1

      Saying the valley died can be verified with enough certainty.

      Saying the valley died because of climate change cannot be verified without more corroborating evidence and thus on its own, that affirmation is anecdotal.

    62. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      14 hours later and I'm still waiting for someone...anyone to point out a creditable source of a prediction by any that has come to pass...yet not one has attempted...let that soak in.

    63. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And just recently, most receivers of the nobel prize rejected signing a constitution acknowledging agw..infact over 75 percent rejected it....

    64. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by shilly · · Score: 1

      You maybe attuned to English; however, you are an ineffective communicator because you're unable to choose le mot juste. It's not as though a better choice of word was unavailable. You just couldn't think of it, and now you're trying to justify your poor choice through discussion of normative and descriptive linguistics.

    65. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Bongo · · Score: 1

      Sure, but today, or in a million years? Nature gave us that ingenuity, and like any creature, we use what we have. If the human experiment has run its course and we've reached the limit our survival skills, so be it. But if we can survive, invent space travel, mine the asteroid belt for resources, educate every child to great intelligence, and let Earth return back to a big garden, great. If we can't, we can't.

    66. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Note that we've only had computers fast enough to model the climate since the 90's."

      Correction:

      We've had computers fast enough to compute the same models 'wrong' even FASTER since the 90s and they're still nowhere near aligning with the observations. Not to mention NONE OF THE CLIMATE MODELS HAVE EVER BEEN VALIDATED...NOT ONCE!

      Btw, if you're so into reading peer reviewed papers then you'd know there's not a single climate predication paper that has ascended to theory...Not once - EVER! Not to mention, science used to be all about proving one another wrong until a verifiable theory was reached and that those who could do it were highly praised. But not with climate science. Go against that and you'll lose all your funding and respect.The game is rigged and highly politicized so knock it off with the so-called 'peer review' nonsense. I mean it wasn't long ago that 20 thousand 'Ai generated' papers (consisting of nothing but pure nonsense) passed the process of being published...So yeah, there isn't actually a peer review process anymore...At least through the main channels....

    67. Re: Fallacy of Climate Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a fucking idiot.

  10. As long as he is dumping HIS OWN money... by mi · · Score: 0

    As long as he is dumping his own money, that is all fine and not even much of our business.

    But, as recent history has shown, government politicians may choose to force the reset of us to follow his lead. And that should not be allowed.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:As long as he is dumping HIS OWN money... by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      "May choose"

      Oh man the whole point of this is to force everyone to follow whether they need it or not.

    2. Re:As long as he is dumping HIS OWN money... by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      But, as recent history has shown, government politicians may choose to force the reset of us to follow his lead. And that should not be allowed.

      Why not? If it turns out to be a good idea, then should the government ignore it at its own peril just out of principle?

    3. Re:As long as he is dumping HIS OWN money... by mi · · Score: 1

      Why not?

      Because private generosity is supposed to decrease public expenditures, not enlarge them.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    4. Re:As long as he is dumping HIS OWN money... by shilly · · Score: 1

      Is that some kind of law or something?

      *Why* is private generosity "supposed" to decrease public expenditures?

    5. Re:As long as he is dumping HIS OWN money... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least in the US it is because we are "supposed" to have a limited government which is only supposed to provide basic protections/services (Defense, laws, patents, interstate commerce, etc). Beyond that its "supposed" to leave the citizenry/states alone and not expend taxpayer money for anything beyond those basic services. In theory that would leave those states/citizens free donate their own funds to causes they identified with.

    6. Re:As long as he is dumping HIS OWN money... by shilly · · Score: 1

      I get that. But you implied there was a causative link: if the private sector spends money on X, then the government will spend less money. Hence why I asked if there was some kind of law you were invoking, eg an economic dictum.

  11. Most global diseases involve energy and water by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Having consistent power to refrigerate vaccines and medicines, and sterilize needles is critical to curing diseases worldwide.

    Moving to a more decentralized approach of clean power generation allows areas with major health problems from disease to leapfrog past other countries. And because they're not that useful in warfare, if done on a mass produced level and inexpensively, it makes it easy enough to maintain (just train people to fix them and install them, and set them on resupply and maintenance runs, with text messages for "out of supplies" or "power running low" or "diagnostic error code physical problem") using burst relay communications.

    Same goes for water. The Gates Foundation has demonstrated they could mass produce clean water supplies from ... basically sewage (human wastes). They just need power supplies to run those. If you roll out solar worldwide in mass quantities you drop the cost to maintain and install low enough. And you can use such devices to charge phones that use low energy communications. Most diseases in poor nations involve lack of clean drinking water. If you can't get clean drinking water locally but you can get it free from one of these devices, you'll use that. Nobody wants their babies to die.

    Doesn't matter if it won't charge your phone at night when it needs power to run the fridges, so long as you make it modular.

    Very good idea.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:Most global diseases involve energy and water by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      And because they're not that useful in warfare,

      Umm, sorry for being cynical, but the most useful thing in warfare is a largish healthy population.

    2. Re:Most global diseases involve energy and water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That hasn't been true since the Russo-Japanese War.

    3. Re:Most global diseases involve energy and water by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      Iran-Iraq is a recent counter example. Care to play again ?

    4. Re: Most global diseases involve energy and water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A solar powered world produces 63 thousand times the waste of a nuclear powered world.

    5. Re: Most global diseases involve energy and water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      in yards, or Galleons? mm? Hertz? what are you talking about? Ionizing radiation hazard?

    6. Re:Most global diseases involve energy and water by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Even in a modern mechanised war, where you have a relatively small percentage of the population fighting, success depends on a strong economy. Russia's ability to turn on massive production of tanks in the second world war was the most obvious example of this, but even before that in the Napoleonic wars the British ability to mass-produce rifles was a key factor. Without a healthy population, you can't easily maintain the civilian infrastructure that you need to drive the war machine. The drones won't fly without working power, the operators won't make it to work without working transportation infrastructure and food distribution.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    7. Re:Most global diseases involve energy and water by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      You seem to misunderstand my example. Iran won against Iraq because of a large and disposable population, that it was willing to expend relentlessly against better equipped troops.

    8. Re:Most global diseases involve energy and water by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Sorry - I'm not disagreeing with you, just pointing out that it still applies even in conflicts where it isn't the first-order effect.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    9. Re:Most global diseases involve energy and water by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      My bad I meant to phrase that differently.

    10. Re:Most global diseases involve energy and water by del_diablo · · Score: 1

      The problem is that "healthy" does not mean "peak human free of diseases", it just means "somebody who is not crippled".
      In a really shit country, you get a disease, are crippled while having the disease, and die if its bad enough.
      In a western country, you get a disease, are crippled if the disease is bad, and rarely die.
      The rest of the population stays healthy, and small things like coughing, cold, and lower height isn't that relevant.

      What is hilarious is also that the since quality metal weapons existed, the limitation for a army is never man power, but supplies. Especially more so once you realize only a soldato in quasi modern full gear is useful. Somebody with a makeshift pitchwork isn't useful, when the other guy got armor for most of his bodyparts and is arrow resistant.
      For modern combat its even more so, since your limitation is the amount of missiles you got, and the AK is still a good gun.

    11. Re:Most global diseases involve energy and water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you ever considered how much energy is used by computers when they run other things they're not supposed to, like malware? I'd say the electricity wasted because of that inherently insecure OS design is a lot higher than a measly 1 billion USD.
      These days security is better and power consumption is way down, but we're talking about 25+ years of idiotic computing here.

    12. Re:Most global diseases involve energy and water by Barbecue911 · · Score: 1

      Most living things depend on energy and water.

    13. Re: Most global diseases involve energy and water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google it numb -ðY'...heh

    14. Re: Most global diseases involve energy and water by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      I have no idea if that statement is accurate, but I highly doubt it. Maybe for certain definitions of "waste". Anyway: the choice what to invest in depends on the goals they are trying to achieve. If I just wanted to reduce the effects of energy production on global warming (and it sounds that this is what Gates is on about), I would invest in nuclear; specifically: research into safer reactors and/or thorium based ones. (I was pleased and not a little bit surprised to find that my government actually gave out a bunch of research grants to look into various engineering challenges in building thorium MSRs).

      However, GP makes a very good point: local power production that does not heavily depend on infrastructure and is very dependable with little maintenance required, is far more useful to rural areas in developing countries or disaster-stricken areas. If we can improve things like $/kWh or energy storage to the point where local green energy production is economically viable, we can make a big impact both on our own CO2 emissions and on living conditions in developing nations. And increasing efficiency also means a reduction in that extra waste that clean power purportedly generates.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    15. Re: Most global diseases involve energy and water by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Except nuclear waste takes 100 thousand times as long to go away.

      Thanks for playing!

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    16. Re: Most global diseases involve energy and water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Idiot...the way we despose of nuclear waste in modern times using modern reactors is a lot different from 50 years ago....if you don't understand that then stfu.

    17. Re: Most global diseases involve energy and water by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Idiot...the way we despose of nuclear waste in modern times using modern reactors is a lot different from 50 years ago....if you don't understand that then stfu.

      I read energy research papers. I've invested in nuclear fission plants. And here at the UW we have a working fusion power plant.

      And we use nuclear fission reactors to create tracer medical materials and do NMR. Which was part of a project we did that provided the basic science underpinnings of all the malarial cures and even the understanding of how TB infects human cells.

      So, yes, I know a lot about this. And you obviously are a corporate shill.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    18. Re: Most global diseases involve energy and water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      However in the end they attempted to form their own currency along with libia... But they were promptly crushed.

      See gold denar

    19. Re: Most global diseases involve energy and water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Listen, there are more people in third world countries with 1gigabit connections paying next to nothing if not free to browse the internet with their recycled win98 machines directly on their dirt compounded floors than there are cars in the US if not more....let that soak in.

    20. Re: Most global diseases involve energy and water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Says the corporate shill...way to draw attention away from yourself....but eould you care to back it up with tangible evidence? And just what do you know about gen. 4 reactors? Because clearly you're avoiding that next generation....shill

    21. Re: Most global diseases involve energy and water by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      I am not at liberty to discuss that.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  12. Two months ago. by kf6auf · · Score: 2

    Yeah, I think it was less than two months ago when he announced he was still not going to divest from fossil fuels. http://www.washingtontimes.com...

    So maybe he's moving from evil to hypocrite?

    1. Re:Two months ago. by VicVegas · · Score: 2

      Linking to the washington times is like linking to an onion article.

    2. Re:Two months ago. by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 2

      Divestment is a political posture. It's the kind of thing you print on leaflets to hand out to the Freshmen. Then they can march on the Administration building chanting 'Divest Now!'

    3. Re:Two months ago. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The article linked in the heading is a article written by bill gates himself. So if you want bash the washington times site for being bias so is the article itself.

    4. Re:Two months ago. by Layzej · · Score: 2
    5. Re:Two months ago. by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      So on the one hand we have the anti-environmentalists screaming that we can't live on renewables alone, and on the other we have people criticising Gates for agreeing and not giving up on making the necessary evil of fossil fuels less evil.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:Two months ago. by StikyPad · · Score: 2

      If he's taking money earned from fossil fuels and putting it toward renewable energy R&D, then that's a net gain. Besides, if they sold the stock, it would just create a buying opportunity for someone else; someone who wouldn't necessarily use any profits for altruistic efforts.

  13. efficiency... by lkcl · · Score: 1

    didn't we just have an article posted on here where someone pointed out that the efficiency from end-to-end of charging a mobile phone is something like *16* percent? ... so why is bill gates investing in an area of least efficiency? it makes me wonder, y'know - when people get a lot of money (like google throwing money at project ara to help create and entrench existing monopoly positions around the UniPro standard), they often don't think "how can this problem be solved in a way that *doesn't* need a lot of money?" not so as to be stingy, but so that creativity is applied instead of brute force, if you know what i mean. just because you *can* solve the *production* of energy doesn't mean that you shouldn't be looking at solving the reduction of energy *consumption*.

    1. Re:efficiency... by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In fairness to Bill Gates, he's talking about poor farmers in poor countries where there is no real electrical grid.

      He's not talking about whiny punks in rich countries and their damned cell phones. Or rich assholes with private yachts and jets.

      Oddly enough, people in poor and remote areas are the ones who would stand to benefit from solar power the most, and they aren't the people who would be looking at reducing their energy consumption ... they're the people who don't have lights and really basic things.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:efficiency... by LongearedBat · · Score: 1
    3. Re:efficiency... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      just because you *can* solve the *production* of energy doesn't mean that you shouldn't be looking at solving the reduction of energy *consumption*.

      On the contrary, it means exactly that. Are you an assembler programmer by any chance?

      If you have more cycles, you don't need to be as efficient with those cycles. But you do need to be more efficient with your real limited resource, which is programmer time. That's why assembly coding is more-or-less dead now.

      Equally, if you can solve energy production, you don't need to reduce energy consumption, and in fact doing so uses up valuable human capital which would be better spent elsewhere. And I mean "better" in both the senses of more profitable and more beneficial to society.

      As for your initial point, that 16% is based on electricity generated from fossil fuels. Solar and wind generate electricity directly and the losses are far lower. So I don't know why you think this is the "area of least efficiency"?

  14. I know why... by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Just like most really rich guys. Trying like hell to clean his dark soul from what he did to get that rich.

    Carnegie was a horrible horrible human being, he tried to buy his soul back with all the "giving back".

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:I know why... by h33t+l4x0r · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You mean bundling a browser with an OS? Or copying Apple's UI? Eradicating polio doesn't balance that karma for you? Really?

    2. Re:I know why... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Just like most really rich guys. Trying like hell to clean his dark soul from what he did to get that rich.

      In the United States, we like a good redemption story.

      Or don't you believe in redemption?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    3. Re:I know why... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don'k know why Bill Gates is doing what he does and I do not think anybody, beside himself maybe, does. But who cares? Instead of collecting toys or pursing other self serving activities he is trying to improve the world we all live in.

      So, my hat off to Bill Gates for trying to make things a lot or a little, history will be the judge of that, better for everybody.

    4. Re:I know why... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah, in case you've never noticed dirty neckbeard nerds have absolutely no sense of proportion.

      Gates has done nothing wrong by any rational definition - being a tough businessmen with people who choose or choose not to buy your product is not anything like e.g. owning slaves or murdering people..except to the Linux neckbeard.

      Fact is that Gates built an enormous empire of wealth and is now going to give most of it away to the greater good, while these filthy neckbeards sit in their basements poo-pooing him.

    5. Re:I know why... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gates did nothing wrong when his company was convicted in court of abusing monopoly power? I don't think so.

    6. Re:I know why... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't get to choose what "rational" means, I'm afraid, especially when your version of "rationality" is just a standard collection of 20th-century pro-capitalist mores which are pretty much discredited by now.

      There are plenty of rational definitions of right and wrong which preclude people from being "tough" businessmen. Just because being an asshole is profitable doesn't make it right. And if you think the only form of slavery is the one that uses iron chains, then you're deluded about the state of the world.

      None of this detracts from the fact that it's better he spends his money like this than in other ways, of course, but it doesn't exactly make the guy into fucking Jesus.

    7. Re:I know why... by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2

      He's just doing what a lot of us are doing: donating time and money to causes we think are worthwhile to support. The difference is that ordinary people have at best a couple of thousand to give, and not much time at all. We get to choose which organisations to support, but with that kind of money it is very hard to get personally involved. The closest we come to real involvement is to spend a few hours a week as a volunteer, or to provide microcredit through organisations like Kiva (and even there you're not lending money directly to the entrepreneur of your choosing).

      If you have billions to spend and can afford to spend all of your time exactly as you please, then it makes sense to simply set up your own charity and run it as you please. You get a lot more pats on the back and much more publicity that way, but it's essentially the same thing as what many of us do.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    8. Re:I know why... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't kill someone and then do a lifetime of good to redeem yourself... murder is murder and nothing will get you back from that.

      IMO this applies to Bill Gates and all people with tainted souls.

  15. Storage by jklovanc · · Score: 2

    I hope he is investing in storage technology. Too many solar panels don't help at night.

    1. Re:Storage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It does if the power is being used for water purification, or to run simple productive machines like saws and drills. Most of the places that are in desperate poverty have very little productive capacity beyond the healthy person. the goal is a sustainable way to replicate industrial revolution.

    2. Re:Storage by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      Farmers tend to sleep and rise with the sun, so not so much of an issue in this use case.

    3. Re:Storage by nickersonm · · Score: 1

      Undoing moderation

    4. Re:Storage by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      They still have refrigerators, lights, heaters, fans, machines, etc. Also only a very small percentage of the population are farmers any more.

    5. Re:Storage by monkeyxpress · · Score: 1

      You've got it back to front. The benefit here is that poor people won't all die because of famines/droughts/floods induced by climate change. It is not so they can have new electric tools and solar powered houses. The rich countries are the ones who will have the new stuff, while the poor will get the 'benefit' of not dying due to our voracious consumption of the earth's resources.

      Yes, the life of poor people in developing countries really does suck that much.

    6. Re:Storage by SebNukem · · Score: 1

      Unless you know that the Earth rotates and it's at night on half its surface at anytime and that electricity can be transported.

    7. Re:Storage by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      If they ever build thousands of miles of trans-oceanic power lines. That will happen right after the deployment of the flying car air traffic control system. Even if they did the loss from a 10,000 mile journey would be quite high.

    8. Re:Storage by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      They still have refrigerators, lights, heaters, fans, machines, etc.

      I take it you've never been outside your own country? The farmers in poor countries which Bill is targeting generally don't have all those things.

  16. Gates and ilk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I may hate Microsoft, and think Gates was over the top when he robbed Seattle Computer Products of DOS when IBM came looking for MS BASIC and mentioned that they needed an OS for their new PC after CPM shined them on, but his humanitarian efforts (probably due to the influence of his wife) have been 1st class. So, I don't hate him, and wish him and his family the best for the future.

  17. Going to need it to compete with NSA by WaffleMonster · · Score: 2

    Collecting and exploiting everyone's private data from most of the worlds desktop users requires energy... lots of it. Ask the NSA about their troubles with the grid. Bill is just doing his portfolio a favor by working to make more sources of energy available.

    --
    "Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary."

  18. Less predictable weather by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is the source for this "less predictable weather" claim? From what I have read they expect more persistent weather patterns to lead to more extreme weather (eg many days in a row of rainfall, etc). This is the opposite.

  19. +4 informative nonsense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Weather changes naturally therefore human-caused weather change does not exist?

    Lightning causes fire naturally therefore humans do not "have enough power" to create fire.

    1. Re: +4 informative nonsense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spoken like a true alarmist extremist...

      If that is how true alarmist extremists spoke, they'd clearly be very rational people. You're not trying to convince us, by making skeptics look like irrational fools, that we should be extremely alarmed by any chance?

    2. Re: +4 informative nonsense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Logical?

      Hardly....

      Both of those statements are prime examples of reductio ad absurdum.

  20. Why? by roc97007 · · Score: 1

    (a) he can afford it, (b) it keeps his name in the news. In a good way, I mean.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  21. Why always "poor countries?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Philanthropy is great but this fixation of bringing food, water, and basic healthcare to 3rd-world countries concerns me. Sure it relieves suffering but it also fosters population growth without fundamentally improving the human condition on this planet. I'd rather see these dudes use their money to tackle education, develop new treatments for diseases like cancer, create technology to obsolete fossil fuels and solve global warming....

    Invest in something new and quit bagging the low-hanging fruit.

    1. Re:Why always "poor countries?" by microbox · · Score: 1

      Bringing people out of poverty is part of stabilizing the population. True story.

      --

      Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
  22. Re:"...those in poor countries will suffer the mos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dammit!! Where the hell is MY check?? Cheapskates!!!

  23. On the surface... by erp_consultant · · Score: 4, Interesting

    this seems like a noble thing to do. So why am I left with this feeling that he is still a crooked, slimy sleazeball? I've said this before but this is straight out of the Robber Baron playbook.

    Act 1 - make as much money as humanly possible. If you have to screw people over or even break laws along the way, so be it.
    Act 2 - turn into a philanthropist and give some of it back. Note: not ALL of it, SOME of it.

    In the end, most people have short memories and will only remember the last act not the first.

    I'm not saying that he hasn't done anything good with his money. He has. But he's still a crook.

    1. Re:On the surface... by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 2

      this seems like a noble thing to do. So why am I left with this feeling that he is still a crooked, slimy sleazeball?

      Really I have no idea why people hate Bill Gates so much other than limited cerebral function. He was immensely successful in business, one of the most successful in history, and has used that success for the greater good of humanity. Yet you choose to overlook all that because he forced you to manually install another browser on your computer to bypass the default?
      Churchill, Jefferson, Newton, pretty much every major character in history broke some eggs to make their omelettes. Gates is no different and will be remembered in history for all of his good deeds.

    2. Re:On the surface... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like how you specified 'business' because he was terrible at technology. Virtually everything that made Microsoft (and himself) rich, he 'borrowed' from someone else. Microsoft's business practices were so notorious that the Simpsons made a gag about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H27rfr59RiE

    3. Re:On the surface... by erp_consultant · · Score: 1

      "Churchill, Jefferson, Newton, pretty much every major character in history broke some eggs to make their omelettes. " - You are forgetting Carnegie, Rockefeller, Kennedy, Venderbilt and others. They broke a lot of eggs too.

      Gates also broke laws. You may remember that he is a convicted monopolist. Just like Rockefeller. And, just like Rockefeller, he turned to philanthropy late in life so that people like you would forget his evil deeds earlier in life. This is the Robber Baron playbook that I referred to.

      Gates screwed over not only his rivals but his supposed partners too. He used Microsoft's monopoly position to sabotage competing products like Netscape. Does the "Microsoft Tax" ring a bell? It's a lot more than just forcing me install another browser.

      His actions - not words but actions - show him to be untrustworthy. You can be sure he has something up his sleeve. I wouldn't trust him as far as I could spit.

    4. Re:On the surface... by jimtheowl · · Score: 1

      Perhaps unlike what you suggest ("limited cerebral function"), 'people' might have gotten a little smarter over time?

      If you need to compare him to anybody, Thomas Edison comes to mind; in the sense that he was really good at stealing/taking credit. Nicholas Tesla would serve as a counter example.

      In my opinion, the overinflated space that Gates bulldozed over would have been much better served by better 'people'. Gary Kildal just to name another one.

      Those broken eggs were not about necessity. They were about greed, but mostly about the lust for control and power without any regards for the greater good.

      I will will not dismiss your last statement. He just might manage to perform a significant good deed before history (some of it financed by "charity") chant his name in glory.

    5. Re:On the surface... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really I have no idea why people hate Bill Gates so much other than limited cerebral function.

      That limited cerebral function is all you, good sir.

    6. Re:On the surface... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People change.

    7. Re:On the surface... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > ..., blah, blah, blah, convicted monopolist, blah, blah, blah...

      Loser thinking at it's finest. I'd be happy take ten monopoly convictions to have the opportunity to direct the amount of resources that Gates has towards fixing the worlds ills.

    8. Re:On the surface... by asvravi · · Score: 1

      Undoing wrong moderation.

    9. Re:On the surface... by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      Gates also broke laws. You may remember that he is a convicted monopolist. Just like Rockefeller. And, just like Rockefeller, he turned to philanthropy late in life so that people like you would forget his evil deeds earlier in life. This is the Robber Baron playbook that I referred to.

      The difference I don't consider anything he did to be evil. And claiming such makes you look a little bit whacko.

      You can be sure he has something up his sleeve.

      Yeah improving lives, which is more than you've done. So where-ever you put Bill on the scale of contributions to humanity, you are a lot further down the list so hardly in any position to throw barbs.

    10. Re:On the surface... by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      Those broken eggs were not about necessity. They were about greed, but mostly about the lust for control and power without any regards for the greater good.

      You're still upset about having to manually install another browser aren't you?
      History will remember Bill as a visionary business leader and philanthropist. All the little hate from inconsequential nerds who expected everything for free won't count for squat.

    11. Re:On the surface... by erp_consultant · · Score: 1

      "The difference I don't consider anything he did to be evil." - I'm not the first person to claim that. And you might feel differently if you were on the receiving end of his dirty tricks.

      "Yeah improving lives, which is more than you've done. So where-ever you put Bill on the scale of contributions to humanity, you are a lot further down the list so hardly in any position to throw barbs." - Well thanks for the input Melinda. I'll certainly take that under advisement :-)

    12. Re:On the surface... by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      "The difference I don't consider anything he did to be evil." - I'm not the first person to claim that. And you might feel differently if you were on the receiving end of his dirty tricks.

      Like Liebnitz against Newton? Or Hitler against Churchill? King George III and Jefferson etc?
      All great men make enemies. Therefore simply having them doesn't preclude them from being great.

    13. Re:On the surface... by jimtheowl · · Score: 1

      I am not upset at at all; just making an observation. I know your trolling when commenting about history, but I somewhat agree with it. Not the 'inconsequential nerds' part, but because history can be re-written and usually is.

  24. Because $1 billion isn't a lot of money to him? by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    And renewables have probably hit the point where they're profitable. We know this because power companies have called them out as a risk factor in their SEC filings. It does bother me that we let the 1% toss that kinda money round willy-nilly though.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Because $1 billion isn't a lot of money to him? by pipingguy · · Score: 1

      I don't think they're profitable without subsidies.

  25. Bankruptcy CAPTCHA: country by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The U.S. dollar is supported entirely by its hegemony as the only currency allowed to sell oil in. No country producing oil is allowed to sell oil in any currency other than U.S. dollars, on pain of assassination of its leaders. This forces the world to support a bankrupt U.S. currency if they want to buy oil. Providing an alternate energy commodity would remove the only support the U.S. currency has, making it as worthless as toilet paper and the U.S. bankrupt, unable to pay its bills or buy its necessities. No U.S. administration or the voters behind them will allow this to happen, and Bill Gates or anyone interfering with the hegemony of the U.S. dollar will be thrown under a bus.

    1. Re:Bankruptcy CAPTCHA: country by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [citation needed]

  26. Yo Bill Gates' motivation ya'll is mad stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yo Bill Gates iz prob'ly investing another 1 billion bones into clean energy cuz he wants ta feel like he iz doin' somethin` important , wOrd!

  27. Don't be fooled. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bill Gate must have some plan to make money on this, Bill Gates of all people has to know climate change is a scam. Government (Democrats) will only do something if they can profit or gain votes for it. It is an excuse to throw money and people who do them favors and get people to pay more for things then we should.

    People in poor areas are the least effect by the "climate change" as they don't have government telling them they have to pay more for power for some made up "greater good".

    So yea, Bill Gates has a way to make money on this.

    Get tired of all this climate change stuff, and nothing ever happens year after year. Eventually the temp will start falling as is the natural cycle so this stuff can go away and democrats look like fools.

    1. Re:Don't be fooled. by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      O child of privilege and leisure, you really have not a blessed clue, have you?

      The poor are the MOST affected by climate change. For example, they can't just turn on the A/C or hop in the SUV and drive up to the Poconos to cool off when it's too hot for comfort, like you can. And most likely do.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  28. World Domination Payback by largesnike · · Score: 1

    So I suppose dominating the world with Windows for all those years was worth it?

    --
    "Laugh while you can a-monkey boy!" - Dr Emilio Lizardo
  29. Re: Because $1 billion isn't a lot of money to him by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    'Renewables' is a capitalist term and the fear monger has gone on long enough for it to be something worth investing in....

  30. I'm a total Linux die-hard, but... by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    I for one welcome Bill Gates, our new overlord. So far he seems better than the old overlord.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  31. Such a hateful community by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Slashdot has turned into a hive of such a hateful bunch of old cunts. I'm done with you.

  32. But think of all the poor Coal worker! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hate anyone who thinks like that. F the coal miners or coal power plant workers. They can find a different job.

  33. It's not like that at all. by westlake · · Score: 1

    Just like most really rich guys. Trying like hell to clean his dark soul from what he did to get that rich.

    The entrepreneur --- the empire builder --- has more fun than almost anyone and accomplishes more than most. He tends to exit the stage as exuberant and self-confident as when he entered it.

    New York Architecture Images - The Chrysler Building

  34. Re: "...those in poor countries will suffer the mo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mean while should we just keep giving out money that we don't have to make Gates feel better? What is our country's debt again?

  35. He's gone spammer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First hoard up lots of money in exchange for clogging the computing ecosystem with shoddy foundational software that's been holding technology back for decades, now dole it out parcel-wise in truly faux-philantropic fashion, as in, every time is an excuse to trot out his public philantropism when if he'd been doing the job right in the first place, we'd never have had to know his name so well.

  36. No such thing as 'global warming' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    There is no such thing as 'catastrophic man-made global warming'. Why is 'Climatedot' continually posting this 'climate change' bullshit every single day?

    www.wattsupwiththat.com
    www.climatedepot.com

    1. Re: No such thing as 'global warming' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Claickbaite of course...

  37. What happened to Bill the Borg? by operator_error · · Score: 1

    Why can't ./ reliably use the Bill the Borg icon he earned over the years? What has happened to ./? Is anyone left over there?

    1. Re:What happened to Bill the Borg? by SebNukem · · Score: 1

      I suspect that like me, most people here on /. don't know anything about ./

  38. Why? Because He Expects to Make Money! by BECoole · · Score: 1

    Just like other oligarchs such as Buffett and Musk, he's learned it's less risky and there's more money to be made from government intervention/subsidies than from actually selling a product that people may or may not find useful.

  39. The poor and CO2... by rgbatduke · · Score: 1

    Sadly -- and I do mean sadly -- the effect of CO2 on "the poor" is never accurately or fairly tallied.

    If it were, the tally would have to begin with the massive amount of greenhouse research on the positive effects of CO_2 on plant growth, research that demonstrates (for example) that it is easily cost-beneficial to buy apparatus to maintain a CO2 concentration over 1000 ppm in actual greenhouses. By raising atmospheric CO2 from 280 to 400 ppm, we have in fact raised crop yields worldwide by between 10 and 15%. Close to 1 billion people dined last night on the extra crop yields (all things being equal) produced by the extra carbon dioxide. It is difficult to put a price tag on this generally neglected benefit, simply because it is so enormous. It is a benefit not only to humans -- it pervades the entire biosphere with very few exceptions. Different types of plants don't all respond equally to increases in CO2, but they all respond positively and everything from the grass in your front yard to food crops to trees are growing faster and more every year. It also has secondary benefits -- plants raised in a CO2 rich environment tend to be more drought resistant as the extra carbon dioxide causes the plant's need to respire to reduce, so it retains water longer. There is evidence that this is already impacting deserts by greening their edges.

    Then there are the benefits of the electricity produced. So far, the benefits of making electricity (and other products) burning coal have included things like "building civilization". The lack of the benefits of electricity are one of the fundamental things that make the global poor (the poorest third of the world's population) poor in the first place. Cheap and abundant electricity means clean water, sewage treatment, inexpensive fertilizer, cooking on something other than dried dung or charcoal, light after dark, refrigeration, transportation, jobs and manufacturing, health care, and access to communication, education, information, and entertainment. At the very least, the lack of reliable and affordable sources of electricity means the general lack of most or all of these things. The people reading this post (many of whom will, I'm sure, already be gathering their nuclear device flames:-) would, I would wager, forgo flaming this post if the cost of dong so would be spending one single month living in a mud hut in north India without electricity or one single one of the products electricity enables (such as clean water).

    Anything that raises the cost of electricity and imposes barriers to its cost-effective implementation in the world's poorest countries has the direct and immediate effect of hurting the poorest people of the world far more than all of the "climate change" that has thus far been attributed to increased carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, even if you are willing to attribute every single storm or heat wave to climate change instead of acknowledging that the data on storms itself (over a pitifully short interval of accurately recorded history) provides almost no evidence for change, let alone attributable negative impact.

    One can easily understand why China and India are investing in coal burning power plants at a ratio of something like two parts new coal generation capacity to one part everything else (including nuclear) put together. Unlike Mr. Gates, they can do the human arithmetic. Even though their coal plants are comparatively dirty and have directly observable negative impacts, those impacts pale beside the benefits of the reliable electricity they produce, and like it or not, wind and solar are thus far neither reliable (in terms of having a high quality of service duty cycle) nor (generally) cost effective when directly compared to the delivered cost of coal generated electricity. If they were, China would invest even more heavily in them as they are doing the math without the saving-the-world sentiment.

    With all of that said, it is still absolutely

    --
    Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
    1. Re:The poor and CO2... by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 1

      If it were, the tally would have to begin with the massive amount of greenhouse research on the positive effects of CO_2 on plant growth,

      Plant growth is almost never CO2 limited outside of the lab.

      Anything that raises the cost of electricity and imposes barriers to its cost-effective implementation in the world's poorest countries has the direct and immediate effect of hurting the poorest people of the world far more than all of the "climate change" that has thus far been attributed to increased carbon dioxide in the atmosphere,

      Even the Chinese are figuring out that the cheapest possible energy production results in living conditions that are worse than no energy production at all.

      Smartest motherfucker in the room syndrome, eh?

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    2. Re: The poor and CO2... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a well known and observable fact that as the concentration of co2 have gone up, the greener our deserts have become and the more phytoplankton have bloomed. Both of which we have learned have significant effects on our climate. Which only leads one to believe that there are naturally occuring failsafes in place to prevent our climate from becoming inhospitable. Afterall, it is plant life that made it possible for creatures from the sea to crawl up on land and evolve into what we are today.

    3. Re:The poor and CO2... by rgbatduke · · Score: 1

      Plant growth is almost never CO2 limited outside of the lab.

      This is, with all due respect, simply not true. It not only isn't true, it is in multiple textbooks as not true, backed by many studies of both lab and field data. Not only is it not true, it is differently untrue for different kinds of plants -- some of them are more likely to be carbon limited than others and respond more strongly to the almost 50% increase in CO2 from 280 ppm to 400 ppm. It isn't true in multiple dimensions -- it alters plant respiration and water retention, it alters the quantum efficiency and temperature optimum of photosynthesis, increases the rates of nitrogen fixation (altering directly one of the other rate limiting resources), and increases the nitrogen efficiency of woody and other C3 plants. One of the more interesting ways it is not true is that the pattern of tree ring growth around the world has been altered (increased) by the increased CO2. This is one of many confounding effects in the use of tree rings to infer past temperature and is sadly often neglected (or breezed on past) simply because it by hypothesis is covariant with the temperature (making causality very difficult indeed to disentangle). You might want to talk to some agricultural scientists and biologists before shooting from the hip on that one, cowboy -- it was first pointed out to me by a soil scientist in the Duke School of the Environment as not even something worthy of contention, a simple well-known fact..

      It is, however, something that is frequently stated by those that want to completely discount any possible benefit from CO2 in order to demonize it and to enhance their political argument that we have to reduce its production at all costs because it has no benefits and not even "risks" -- certainties of disaster if we don't.

      rgb

      --
      Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
    4. Re:The poor and CO2... by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 1

      Uh, no. Here's an actual study: http://www.nature.com/ngeo/jou.... Note that absent larger than usual rainfall or soil nutrients, nothing happens.

      So your turn, Mr Smarty-pants. Where are your citations? Note that you make an incredibly strong claim: that increasing ONLY CO2 increases biomass. And no - hearsay from someone else doesn't count.

      Right now, you're just digging that smartest-motherfucker-in-the-room hole deeper and deeper.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    5. Re:The poor and CO2... by rgbatduke · · Score: 2

      Nothing happens for some plant types, and even the authors of this study said may. They had good reason to.

      http://www.fao.org/docrep/w518...

      To quote from its abstract:

      The consensus of many studies of the effects of elevated CO2 on plants is that the CO2 fertilization effect is real (see Kimball, 1983; Acock and Allen, 1985; Cure and Acock, 1986; Allen, 1990; Rozema et al., 1993; Allen, 1994; Allen and Amthor, 1995). However, the CO2 fertilization effect may not be manifested under conditions where some other growth factor is severely limiting, such as low temperature (Long, 1991). Also, plants grown in some conditions, where limitations of rooting volume (Arp, 1991), light, or other factors restrict growth, have not shown a sustained response to elevated CO2 (Kramer, 1981).

      Note well that again they use the term may. This is because -- unlike you -- they seem to recognize that even though the effect is real and will have an impact in many locations and conditions, including those that generally hold in agriculture where one generally avoids growing plants in strongly resource constrained environments, one can certainly suppress the effect (or fail to observe it in the wild) in specific environments, and they go even further and note that the effect is differential according to plant type with some plant types more likely to exhibit a stronger response or be resource limited than others.

      The bulk of this report simply works through specific food crop species and estimates their likely response to a mix of increased CO2 and the imagined climate changes that are predicted, or projected, or prophecied (as you wish) by the GCMs that so far haven't done a very good job of PP or P-ing the climate.

      You would obviously like more papers:

      http://iopscience.iop.org/1748...

      http://www.nature.com/nclimate...

      (Abstract: Satellite observations reveal a greening of the globe over recent decades. The role in this greening of the “CO2 fertilization” effect—the enhancement of photosynthesis due to rising CO2 levels—is yet to be established. The direct CO2 effect on vegetation should be most clearly expressed in warm, arid environments where water is the dominant limit to vegetation growth. Using gas exchange theory, we predict that the 14% increase in atmospheric CO2 (1982–2010) led to a 5 to 10% increase in green foliage cover in warm, arid environments. Satellite observations, analyzed to remove the effect of variations in precipitation, show that cover across these environments has increased by 11%. Our results confirm that the anticipated CO2 fertilization effect is occurring alongside ongoing anthropogenic perturbations to the carbon cycle and that the fertilization effect is now a significant land surface process.)

      Probably the best review article on the effect on trees, in particular, is this:

      http://www.climateaudit.info/p...

      where in laboratory experiments on trees increasing CO2 by 300 ppm increased growth by 50 to 60%. Idso remarks that the problem with laboratory experiments is the opposite of what you assert -- it is difficult to grow trees in the lab without constraining their roots and access to resources and work he cites (in less abundance as it was ongoing in 1993) suggested that the response in the wild is even higher.

      In general, in the mean, increasing ONLY CO2 in the environments of most wild plants does, in fact, increase their biomass and the net biomass of the Earth has almost certainly substantially increased on average, allowing for changes in land use over the last century. The effect is pronounced and relatively enormous in trees (and yes, I can cite papers t

      --
      Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
    6. Re:The poor and CO2... by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 1

      Neat. You responded. At least the goading had the desired effect. Thanks for providing the links, by the way. I hate it when some people ask me to find the papers that support their position, because it is never possible to figure whether those were the studies they were actually talking about.

      So, let's take a look at those studies.The first one explicitly acknowledges that if other limits are imposed, CO2 increases do not have sustained effects. Which is the entire point of the discussion we're having.

      The second one is more interesting, as it actually tries to quantify the effect across regional variations. However, let's look at some of their conclusions about what would happen out in the field in specific regions: "[...] even though there have been multiple studies in temperate, intensively managed systems, few of the previous experiments have been performed in conditions similar to the growing environments of developing counties, in which the response could be very different (Leakey et al 2012). This is particularly important for dry conditions, for which there are currently no studies, but which prevail in Africa where tuberous crops make up a large proportion of production." This sentiment is prevalent throughout the paper: the CFE is in theory high, but real world impact is difficult to quantify, due to lab conditions rarely mimicking real world farming conditions. Furthermore, it also assumes that fertilization rates are increased along with the CO2 increase to achieve the maximum yields - which is an assumption that needs to be verified before making any conclusions about how much the yield actually is.

      The third one is unfortunately pay-walled, so I'll have to skip. These are the days where I wish that I still would have university access to papers.

      The fourth one, unfortunately,does not say what you think it does: " Idso remarks that the problem with laboratory experiments is the opposite of what you assert -- it is difficult to grow trees in the lab without constraining their roots and access to resources and work he cites (in less abundance as it was ongoing in 1993) suggested that the response in the wild is even higher." Instead, what it actually says is that: "[...] this response-restricting artifact has often been regarded as producing realistic results. It can be effectively argued, however, that plants in the natural environment can increase their nutrient-gathering capacities at a rate sufficient to meet the real-world rate of rise in growth potential provided by the yearly incremental rise in atmospheric CO2[...]" In short: they're saying that they believe it is reasonable to assume that the growth limits of lab conditions (shallow root systems) are equivalent to the growth limits of natural conditions (poor soils), and one is therefore similar to the other - not that one is higher than the other, and certainly not that there were experiments that supported this. Finally, the paper is actually a bit of a failure: they did a meta-analysis of 342 papers and 1087 experiments, and only a handful was done on plants in natural settings. Furthermore, the entirety of the experiments that were discussed in detail were of pine trees at high altitudes - not crops.

      Before I summarize, let me start with a correction on my part. When I said "Plant growth is almost never CO2 limited." I was wrong. It's a pithy sentence, but doesn't hold up under detailed scrutiny. I guess that's why papers contain more than one sentence. A more accurate, single-sentence form of my position is "CO2 is one factor among many that impacts plant growth, and current in-the-field analysis of world-wide crop yields does not exist to support your statement."

      But let's take a closer look at what it is that you're arguing, and how it relates to the studies you've produced so far. The key statement you made was this:

      By raising atmospheric CO2 from 280 to 400 ppm, we have in fact raised crop yields worldwide by between 10 and 15%

      Let's walk through what ki

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    7. Re:The poor and CO2... by rgbatduke · · Score: 1

      As for my profession: I got out of a career in Astrophysics because I figured that if I had to put up with egos like yours on a daily basis, I might as well get paid for it. Thanks for reminding me that I made the right choice.

      ROTFL.

      Every day, you probably look in a mirror. Do you pay yourself for the privilege?

      Curiously, in my career in physics, even when there has been considerable debate -- and on one occasion I was in a room at a conference where people were almost shouting at each other (over a paper I had written, curiously enough:-) there was still a thread of collegial respect. At the same time, there was and continues to be a lot of resistance to being proven wrong, in no small part because of the grant system.

      Yes, physicists often have egos, although a lot of the ones I know and work with don't have huge ones, just ones that are healthy enough to be able to participate in the scientific process, which requires at least some personal investment in the hypotheses you are studying if only because we've created a system that punishes null results in research to an incredible fault (and which produces a matching bias towards getting a positive result, no matter what, for any hypothesis being studied, sigh, and I don't just mean in climate science). I know you think I'm arrogant (exactly what tone SHOULD I take to respectfully disagree with YOUR personal beliefs in a non-arrogant way, or is the mere act of daring not to agree arrogance, I wonder) but in fact one generally needs to have scientists with egos that are sufficiently healthy to be able to state new beliefs that are not in agreement with "accepted" beliefs in science or science would never make any progress. Is this what annoyed you in astrophysics? People invested in beliefs in some specific picture of the big bang, or dark matter, or whatever? Or did somebody -- referees or grant officers, perhaps -- piss on your Post-Toasties?

      Don't get me wrong -- this is by no means impossible or even unlikely -- it is a serious question! Science is not perfect, gatekeeping is far more common than people think, as is inbreeding in the grant process where reviewers favorably review grants for research that does not challenge the results or beliefs of the reviewer. My primary colleague over 25 years of research was a grant officer for the ARO, and I got to see a lot of this from both sides -- he was absolutely not in this category, but some of his colleagues were, and he had to be very careful in his selection of outside reviewers. But hey, my own thesis advisor had a world class ego and was disliked by roughly 2/3 of the physics department and would insult people en masse at dinner parties, so I do understand where you are coming from. At the same time, he was really pretty damn smart, quite possibly as smart as he thought he was. Smart and modest exists in physics, but you don't hear about it as much and may well hear from stupid and immodest more. Meditating on why may provide some insight into why science is not an ivory tower -- scientists are human and have to be in conflict for the process to work and yet are subject to normal human frailties such as pride and a need to eat and have job security. I personally think "science" works pretty well given all of this, but it could certainly work better...

      I know you like to post a lot on /., and I know that /. isn't known for the maturity of its discussions so that your style is likely adapted to the needs of the medium. All I would suggest is that you consider reducing the snark factor in your replies even when you disagree with something. Obviously, we disagree on this issue. You still seem to wish to impute some sort of fundamental dishonesty to me, and not acknowledge that it is possible for both of us to honestly disagree. I'm sure posting additional links to papers (some of which probably are paywalled, and even though I can get through a paywall via Duke it is a PITA and I hate having to do it to ge

      --
      Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
  40. Re: Most global diseases involve energy and wate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In other words the infrastructure is there but political corruption somewhat prevents it from taking form....but they're alot better off than most first world countries technology-wise...

  41. Re: "...those in poor countries will suffer the mo by KGIII · · Score: 1

    Funding research is giving money out? Hmm... Not sure if intelligent.

    --
    "So long and thanks for all the fish."