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Windows 10 Still Phones Home With Data In Spite of Privacy Settings
Penguinisto writes: According to Ars Technica, Windows 10 will still send telemetry and other data to Microsoft-owned domains — no matter how tightly you crank down the privacy settings. Even with everything buttoned down, Cortana, OneDrive, and Web Search from the Start Menu disabled, the OS still phones home, using a random system ID that persists across reboots. It apparently also tries to bypass proxies to do it. "Some of the traffic looks harmless but feels like it shouldn't be happening. For example, even with no Live tiles pinned to Start (and hence no obvious need to poll for new tile data), Windows 10 seems to download new tile info from MSN's network from time to time, using unencrypted HTTP to do so. ... Other traffic looks a little more troublesome. Windows 10 will periodically send data to a Microsoft server named ssw.live.com. ... The exact nature of the information being sent isn't clear—it appears to be referencing telemetry settings—and again, it's not clear why any data is being sent at all. We disabled telemetry on our test machine using group policies."
Microsoft has about as much trustworthiness as Hillary does.
Are Live tiles pinned to your start bar completely independent of user, or do different users have different settings for that? Response times and reactivity are king. Making sure the data is already there when a different user logs on, or when you go to the page to see what's available, is a thing.
Not saying there shouldn't be an easy way to really turn it off, but "no obvious need to poll" is a little disingenuous unless Windows 10 is a truly single-user OS.
Windows 10 Still Phones Home With Data In Spite of Privacy Settings
What the hell, Microsoft?
And block that crap at the router.
Or will Win10 cease to function at that point?
I'm sure "SlashdotMedia" will improve on all the wonders that Dice Holdings blessed us all with
This battle is lost. No amount of litigation or hacking will change that.
We would be wise to keep our efforts focused on freedom on the electronic frontier. Keep it legal to do all the things we want to do, because we will not be able to do them in secret.
It isn't the happiest of realities, but it is still reality.
Same as the old Microsoft.
there's nothing more expensive in life than free.
never underestimate the creative ability of corporate amerika to extract profit out of free.
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
Haven't we see a post like this ever day since launch?
Group Policy explains if you try it on other editions it will act as if set to Basic.
Not really. I would rather go back to Windows 7, that is, if I actually ran Windows at all! I prefer to have my computers run Debian Linux only!
It's good these posts come out, but having worked with it, it's probably just a case of some calls that didn't check for the telemetry lockdown registry key. Say what you will, but it's not likely they have a secret cabal going to collect which live tiles you resized to "large" or unpinned. There's enough of us that either ride with defaults or are actually OK with them learning how to make a better OS based on how we use it. Given how rushed it was on the last few months fixing major issues, it doesn't surprise me that a few things slipped through. If it isn't fixed via update once they can process the feedback, I'll be surprised. For the live tiles, it's probably trying to pre-cache the images for default items. Even if they removed it from their start menu, I think that's still part of the default account profile. Maybe it needs removed from that one as well. That said, maybe it's just poorly coded (feigns shock). It's good to keep them accountable though, I just wouldn't blow this out of proportion. I've got bigger fish to fry.
.
When I start up my PC in the morning, the hard drive just grinds away for about 5 or 10 minutes, and the CPU is sluggish. At first I thought it was an A/V scan, so I removed my A/V. No effect.
Then I stumbled upon the InfoWorld article, and removed the Windows Updates that were mentioned in the article. The scanning stopped. Until I did a Windows Update earlier this week. And I had to remove once again the offending updates.
What in the world is going on in Redmond?
It is interesting to see not only the technical influence, but the design philosophy inherited from the Skype acquisition: That is, from the perspective of a running service, it's perfectly ok or even desirable to worm your way out and communicate with the hivemind, no matter what the user says. For example, if the user configures the app not to communicate with a voip service, the app will respect the exact letter of the user's intent -- not to make voip calls or display presence -- but it will still update itself, download patches, and update directory data so that you *could* make voip calls if you changed your mind... which it will assume you did at the next update when the settings are reset to default-open...
Opting out entirely is within reach for most people/orgs, it's the momentum that keeps people choosing this crapware. I keep Windows around because I like Visio, but my company does everything else in Google services, so my main machine for actual work has been Linux Mint for several years. The kids have Windows tablets but never use them; they just use pocketable android for comm and big iron for gaming/steam/AV/dev. It's not even worth much effort to criticize msft, they're not going to stop doing stupid things, they don't offer an advantage at the consumer level anymore, and I just don't have the time for it.
(Now, ask me as a security geek, do I like having windows event data along with netflow? Sure thing, but the infrastructure to get that is insanely costly to license and run. I just wouldn't build a company that way anymore.)
I think not...(*poof*)
My Huge Aerospace employer is on Windows 7 and only now is dipping heir toes into Win 8.1
I expect it will be 3 years before win 10 touches any of our hard drives and only then after the security people have stripped out all the M.S. Snoops.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Obligatory "I'm shocked, SHOCKED I TELL YOU!"
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Wasn't auto update, upgrade the give away clue?
Watch as time goes by how much worse it gets, from broken apps (due to auto upgrades) to massive security fails.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
save you a few minutes /uninstall /kb:2952664 /quiet /norestart /uninstall /kb:2990214 /quiet /norestart /uninstall /kb:3035583 /quiet /norestart
wusa
wusa
wusa
Similar to IBM, MSFT could easily charge $50 for Windows XP maintenance PER YEAR AND SEAT. Since XP, there has been NO CUSTOMER VALUE ADDED. Actually, they destroyed lots of customer value by permuting things so that they could call it "new".
Many customers know this and it has burned their business.
The next step in their suicidal plan is to continue charging for their Permuted XP versions, but at the same time collect and sell data like Google. Now, that sounds like an excellent plan to destroy the modicum of trust and relationship they have with their long term customers.
You never have to go looking for Microsoft. Microsoft always knows where to find you.
TinyXP in a VM still going strong here for my putty+notepad addiction.
From a customer value perspective, it was all downhill since XP. The effect is that Samsung and Sony quit the PC business. Sony had some of the nicest designed laptops with their Vaio line.
Meanwhile, Apple sells nice and high priced hardware in massive volumes.
It almost seems a secret army of Linuxers invaded the MSFT decision making ranks in order to smoke it out from the inside. So much stupidness cannot be a coincidence.
I'm waiting until I stop seeing a deluge of shit like this before I un-hide the update to upgrade to windows 10, from windows 7. Remember how Microsoft went goddamned insane when they released the latest Xbox? Remember how they eventually fixed the incredibly privacy-raping idiocy? Still waiting. Gonna keep waiting. If they never come around, that's OK. Windows 7 should keep working for me for some time.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Did you go: "Derp derp derp I hate Microsoft so they must be ignoring privacy settings!" ... as opposed to "Here are logs that prove what's happening?"
Just curious because there's a huge difference between the two.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Here are a few others, and some scheduled tasks that I was surprised to find on Windows 7 machines.
Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
save you a few minutes
Thank-you!
Windows 8 was a fuck up because of the UI.
It looks like Microsoft said, with 10, let's just go deeper and fuck up the user's privacy instead.
The more I hear about 10, the less it looks like a saviour to Windows woes and the more it looks like an even bigger disaster.
Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
Actually, Apple does have the settings. In OS X, since 10.10, it has been due to Spotlight doing online queries. In iTunes, for many years, it has been due to their suggestions system and retrieving additional data about your music.
It is, as the article suggests, the price of convenience. It would be nice though if you had the option to turn off those conveniences if you don't want them.
Yes. Many of us still do more with computers than browse failbook.
You know that EULA that you didn't read but accepted? I'm pretty sure that there's something in there that says they are allowed to send information back to their computers.
Could you put all of these urls into the hosts file to block them?
Which, it should be pointed out, can be disabled on 7 and 8.
Telemetry and error reporting cannot be effectively disabled on 10, because Microsoft refuses to make Enterprise available via retail channels.
This AC is also remaining on 7 here. And has refused to install the offending updates (KB3068708 KB3022345 KB2952664 KB2990214 KB3035583 KB971033 KB3021917 KB3044374) from Windows Update. (Another thing that cannot be disabled in Win10.)
it was all downhill since XP.
Nice rose-colored glasses you're wearing there. Remember how XP was derided as bloated and memory-heavy when it was first released? Remember how it's interface was ridiculed for looking like a PlaySkool toy? How about it's disastrous security record, especially before Service Pack 2 was released? I especially loved that a faulty driver audio driver could end up causing a blue-screen for the entire system. And don't forget about that 64-bit version of the OS that no one used because it wasn't compatible with anything.
Windows 7 is a far superior OS by any reasonable standard. It's basically all the good parts of Vista (better security model, improved driver model, better 64-bit support) but with significantly improved under-the-hood performance optimizations, and a lot of usability improvements.
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
hopefully, they'll get things fixed before the free upgrade deadline is reached.
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
It always has been for the best to not put any trust in Microsoft.
They have a proven track record of unworthiness, for decades.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
That's only a browser feature, you can do that on nearly any OS.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
My company decided to ignore 8.X entirely. And they're adopting wait-and-see on Windows 10. We're happy on Win7.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
And I'm pretty sure it's been established that a EULA can't be used to do things that go against the law.
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
But by accepting the EULA you authorized the access. So it's no longer unauthorized access.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Actually, Apple does have the settings. In OS X, since 10.10, it has been due to Spotlight doing online queries. In iTunes, for many years, it has been due to their suggestions system and retrieving additional data about your music.
It is, as the article suggests, the price of convenience. It would be nice though if you had the option to turn off those conveniences if you don't want them.
There is a Vas Deferens between what Spotlight (for "Spotlight Suggestions") and iTunes does and what Windows 10 is doing. For one thing, Apple is straightforward about what is, and what is not, sent to Apple and/or Microsoft from Spotlight. And more importantly, Apple has a nice, simple GUI way to disable "Spotlight Suggestions".
As far as iTunes goes, if you are referring to the "Genius" feature, unless you turn on iTunes Match, you can disable the Genius feature (which I think is now called "Share details about your library with Apple"). If you are referring to retrieving CD Song Names and other info from the internet, you can disable that, too. Both are available as simple GUI checkboxes in iTunes' Preferences, along with the SWITCHABLE "Share details about your library with Apple", "Limit Ad Tracking", "Automatically download album artwork", "Always check for available downloads", "Sync playback information across devices", "Sync podcase subscriptions and settings", and "check for new software updates automatically".
So, compare that with what TFA says about Windows 10 still leaking data no-matter-what, and I think that any sensible person will agree that there is virtually no comparison between the two "mindsets".
Cool, thanks, just did an IP lookup on it and got back 207.46.7.252. I just made a new outband rule in my firewall blocking all outbound traffic from all applications to 207.46.7.252. Hopefully that should solve the problem.
It isn't that hard to do, I would like to see any other servers windows tries to contact that it dose not need to so I can block them too.
Thank you Linus, and all the other developers who gave the world an alternative. Think about what this would be like with no solid, open, computing platforms to stay clear of big money/brother.
When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
It is hands down the biggest disaster in computing history. The interesting part is how Enterprise will, eventually, not have any of these spyware bugs, so the challenge for the die hard win-heads will be to pirate and use Enterprise. I'm not really sure if it counts as piracy- you're really just looking for the patch set of the OS you are buying (Pro) that doesn't upload every little thing you do to Microsoft, and since the only entities with privacy rights are corporations, you have to use the stuff meant for them.
thank you all! Was wondering why my almost never used Win machine was going dog slow on startup
Why? I never wanted a free upgrade.
I'm perfectly happy to sit on Windows 8.1 Pro (with Classic Shell) indefinitely. Windows 10 is spyware/adware garbage.
Hacking free software continues to prove fruitful. In fact, some people use it and rely on it for their freedoms (such as Edward Snowden). But proprietary software is long known to be untrustworthy by default, no matter who the proprietor is or what excuse they (or their water carriers) have for denying users software freedom. So there's no gain to be had in a capitulation view. Privacy and other freedoms are worth fighting for and there's plenty of good to be had in the fight. Some of those fights take the form of saying "no" to a convenience or trend on the grounds that one values one's privacy more.
Digital Citizen
> What in the world is going on in Redmond?
Frankly I have no idea. This OS is absolutely bat shit insane.
Friend, I'll tell you what's 'going on in Redmond': The same thing that goes on at Facebook, and countless other companies these days: You are the product they're selling, and you're paying for the 'privilege' of being such by buying Windows 10. They're collecting data from your computer whether you like it or not, and selling that data to someone else.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
And then took a series of steps deliberately designed to make users think they were REVOKING that access without actually revoking it.
Let's throw in deceptive business practices.
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
They will just use your machine instead, given all the exploits and flaws that this system will obviously have, given how deep it is rooted on the system.
I either (a) really want to know what text-to-speech and/or autocorrect engine you're using; or (b) am genuinely interested in how penis parts made their way in to OS X.
I either (a) really want to know what text-to-speech and/or autocorrect engine you're using; or (b) am genuinely interested in how penis parts made their way in to OS X.
Just a reference to a puerile joke I've carried around in my brain for decades.
The joke goes "There's a Vas Deferens between Men and Women."
Good luck with that. It's illegal when you or I do it.
But due to the magic of EULAs, and corporations buying the laws they want from the politicians ... there's no way in hell Microsoft will be pursued by the DOJ.
The system is corrupt and stacked in favor of the corporations. And they can do any damned thing they want to.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Windows 7 is looking even better. Staying put.
In windows 7 I disabled every call home excuse under the sun from UI, group policy, CLI, scheduler... Must have spent hours disabling various bullshit yet despite considerable efforts windows 7 still keeps making connections to settings.data.microsoft.com, telemetry.microsoft.com with nothing running, with updates set to manual while doing absolutely nothing but executing tcpdump. In the end I gave up and blackholed these sites in DNS to get it to stop.
To be clear I am not nor would I ever make the lame argument that windows 7 does it too as an excuse to give win10 a pass or cover to try and justify a fundamentally indefensible activity. Microsoft's squandering of their customers trust will ultimately only end badly for them. Wireshark is your friend... try it and see what all windows 7 is doing don't assume that Windows 7 is trustworthy.
--
"Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary."
If you're on the internet you have NO EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY.
Is that you, Scott McNealy? Because 1999 called, and they want that quote back.
That is brilliant didn't know about this - have uninstalled all on the list that were installed (a couple were not installed).
Beyond all this, I'm inching much much closer to moving back to Linux permanently or else finding some hacked OS that can run win apps without all the violations.
I'm into this. Its to the point where the risk of running an OS off a pirated site is far more preferable than running something from a company like Microsoft.
Microsoft were pursued by the DoJ once, for antitrust violations. The case ran for nine years, eventually ending in 2000. Microsoft lost, and a court ordered the company be broken into two separate divisions. Then Microsoft appealed, and the DoJ quickly changed position and reached a settlement whereby they would drop the case and Microsoft would get a slap-on-the-wrist penalty of no consequence.
There was a change of administration during the case, so it is highly likely there was political meddling - someone ordered the DoJ to knock it off and stop trying to destroy a company of great importance not only economically but strategically too.
Wouldn't WINE be better for that?
The interface for Windows 10 is also unbelievably ugly. Its so bad that it honestly seems like they are showing some kind of contempt for users, like we paeans don't deserve anything more than the most bare interface with as few moving parts as possible to minimize any potential headaches to them.
LMFAO
can M$ selectively kill any windows 10 computer remotely
As Win 10 is an 'in progress' project M$ can acquire that kind of power (if it does not already have it) and toggle the 'kill' switch any time it wants.
Win 10 is becoming the largest security threat there ever is.
Because of that I have decided to not upgrade any of my company's computers (which run Windoze) to Win 10. All the computers that are needed to be retired will be replaced with computers running any OS other than Win 10.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
... are idiots
Telemetry and error reporting cannot be effectively disabled on 10, because Microsoft refuses to make Enterprise available via retail channels
There is one thing about the masses - they believe in whatever they were told, such as "Users of Enterprise version of Win 10 can disable spying"
Just because they say the enterprise version can disable spying does not mean:
1. It is true
_and_
2. It will always be true
Remember this thing - Windows 10, unlike prior versions of Windows, is an "in progress" project, which means, Microsoft gets to add it, or take out, any function/feature it wants.
The hundreds of millions of users of Windows worldwide used to be the customers of Microsoft, used to be, because as of now, they have become Microsoft's product, to be packaged and sold to Microsoft's new crop of customers - the ad agencies, spook agencies, data miners, and so on, and so forth ...
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Microsoft does really great work on the kernel side of things. The leaked Windows NT4 and 2000 source code from way back in the day received generally good reviews from OS developers that examined the code quality. Every Windows NT release since 2000 has had massive improvements in the kernel and driver space. It's unfortunate that upgrading the NT kernel side requires "upgrading" the user-level software side to bring all of the trash that Microsoft does a really terrible job on. I'd happily take the Windows 10 kernel and drivers with the Windows 7 userspace dropped on top. In fact, that's what Windows 10 SHOULD have been.
Telemetry and error reporting cannot be effectively disabled on 10, because Microsoft refuses to make Enterprise available via retail channels.
And here people thought MS was trying to stop pirates. Enterprise is certainly available that way. When I'm forced off Win7 in a few years it looks like my life of crime won't be over, hopefully software piracy won't have a mandatory minimum of life in prison and forfeiture of 100% of assets yet. Well, probably the latter at least.
The only reason to choose Win7 over Win10 would be the contents of the license agreement, allowing Win7-users to sue Microsoft if the behavior of Win7 violates what they agreed to.
On a technical level it doesn't really matter. Given that most of the "I'm staying with Win7 to protect my privacy!"-people will probably install all updates anyway, it seems hardly likely that they will prevent Microsoft from having Win7 phoning home if Microsoft wants it to. That is, without enacting measures that are pretty much identical in both OSs, such as blocking Microsoft servers in the hosts-file.
I haven't dug into the legalese myself, but would like to see a comparison between the license agreements for Win7 and Win10 with regard to phoning home.
Nice rose-colored glasses you're wearing there. Remember how XP was derided as bloated and memory-heavy when it was first released? Remember how it's interface was ridiculed for looking like a PlaySkool toy? How about it's disastrous security record, especially before Service Pack 2 was released? I especially loved that a faulty driver audio driver could end up causing a blue-screen for the entire system. And don't forget about that 64-bit version of the OS that no one used because it wasn't compatible with anything.
Windows XP being an NT based OS had higher requirements than Win9x, but was in line with 2000, and other NT products. NT has always required more resources, but was more stable than consumer Win9x products.
-Agree on the Playskool interface
-On security the big problem was allowing default windows services to open ports when the machine was connected directly to the internet. The default behavior of the Firewall in SP2 was to deny access to these, which protected against these attacks.
-On the 64 bit, it was never designed as a mainstream OS. AMD64 bit processors were released after the original XP release, and the only real benefit is access to additional RAM above 4GB. At the time RAM above 2GB was rare, and expensive, so it was really only targeted for very high end workstations. Hence why it was only available in Professional, and why it was in the same development cycle as Server 2003 64 bit. XP-64 bit was released Mid 2005, and Microsoft wasn't going to push 64-bit given that few had use for it, and Vista was "just around the corner" which was designed from the start in both 32 and 64 bit versions. XP-64 bit and Server 2003 64 bit marked the very first versions of Windows supporting x86-64 bit instructions, and laid the path for the future with for example, driver models, and how WOW for 32 bit applications worked on it. Since then hardware and software developers have been gradually improving support, such that by ~2009 everyone was ready for mainstream 64-bit support.
Thanks but no thanks, Microsoft.
I'll stick with Win 7 until my PC dies, and after that I'll probably switch to Linux.
Win 7 works fine for me, and Win 8 and Win 10 do not appear to offer me ANYTHING useful whatsoever.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Give us a hint who? At least how big??
STFU and enjoy the Windows you paid for willingly, or go to distrowatch.com and pick one of the 250 alternatives.
Don't get mad, get Linux.
If you're referring to the policy that was going to require that the Xbox One connected to the Internet once in a while even for offline games I don't think this is comparable.
There was a massive, instant, outcry when the policy was announced and gamers started to claim that they would buy the PS4 instead. In this case, we a few nerds may be aware and dislike the horrible privacy implications of Windows 10 but the general public is oblivious about it and also there's no direct substitute for Windows. Yes, we're in the time of history in which native apps have lost some importance, and many people would be happy with a Chromebook, but many people still needs programs that only run in Windows and can't really go to any alternative.
It's a disaster for us users. Whether is a disaster for Microsoft remains to be seen. The fact that it's a free "upgrade" has already won many people over. Most regular joes seem not to care much about the UI or the spying and I'm thus not very optimistic about it failing and forcing Microsoft to backtrack.
So, you installed and OS that proudly says it has features that cloud sync. Accepted the EULA saying you knew it's there and agree to install. They didn't have to give any options to turn off telemetry collection and had no legal disclaimers that it worked and would adjust your EULA, but provided an option to do so, that works, but only partially. Yeah... Not sure a bug in an option designed to make the OS better is going to qualify as saying it's illegal.
Outbound proxy, or even just a good outbound firewall/content filter would do the job.
Fear not. Microsoft itself is giving you hashes for all their images:
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-...
You can safely pirate and verify.
Of course it runs NetBSD. BTC: 1NT7QvbetmANwaMzhpVL6
> after the security people have stripped out all the M.S. Snoops.
It's not like MS is not putting new surveilance err bugfixes in, to continue providing the best experience to its users.
xp matured. And that XP was a disaster doesn't make 7 any better. Both are quite okay compared to 8/10, but it's still true, that it constantly went downhill. And not light at the end of the tunnel.
isn't windows one of the softwares, which tell you "please accept the EULA", when you click next without accepting? In this very moment, they tell you to accept it, without asking if you accept it. So its not anymore binding, as you just did what you were told to.
One of the longer epitaphs I've run across.
So?
Install a fresh AOKP ROM. No googly connections at all.
It's your fault to install gapps, which connect to google all the time (as that's the purpose of gapps. Give you i.e. GCM, which needs a persistent connection to google)
you need to do a clean install. Seriously anyone who buys a PC or laptop from an OEM and doesnt do a clean install is asking for it not to work. If you've windows 8 (or 8.1) you should be able to download a clean install iso from MS and do it. all you need to do is backup your data (but you have that already, dont you...)
Seems simple enough to defeat - don't connect to the internet. Or set up rules on your firewall to block those domains. That would be *.microsoft.com and *.live.com
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
For proxy filtering, I don't have a full list for the app store, but here's a list from Intune which includes all of the update pieces: https://technet.microsoft.com/... - that would at least be a start. Also, Microsoft does have some additional steps on isolating Windows Store apps once they are on a PC, but I'm not sure I fully understood the direction they are going. It looks like they recommending the removal of networking permissions to anything except your user account, but I'd have to test it out to fully digest it: https://technet.microsoft.com/...
It's like saying Beetlejuice thrice...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.