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A Breakdown of the Windows 10 Privacy Policy
WheezyJoe writes: The Verge has a piece on Windows 10 privacy that presents actual passages from the EULA and privacy policy that suggest what the OS is capturing and sending back to Microsoft. The piece takes a Microsoft-friendly point of view, arguing that all Microsoft is doing is either helpful or already being done either by Google or older releases of Windows, and also touches on how to shut things off (which is also explained here). But the quoted passages from the EULA and the privacy policy are interesting to review, particularly if you look out for legal weasel words that are open to Microsoft's interpretation, such as "various types (of data)", diagnostic data "vital" to the operation of Windows (cannot be turned off), sharing personal data "as necessary" and "to protect the rights or property of Microsoft". And while their explanations following the quotes may attempt an overly friendly spin, the article may be right about one thing: "In all, only a handful of these new features, and the privacy concerns they bring, are actually in fact new... Most people have just been either unaware or just did not care of their existence in past operating systems and software." Even pirates are having privacy concerns and blocking Windows 10 users.
... you just don't "know" you like it? They did this promotion where they sat old people in front of vista machines asked them to derp around on it and then asked them if they liked it... they all said they did... and MS basically said "everyone saying they don't like vista is wrong/a troll/ignorant/etc"... remember that?
Well... same thing seems to be happening again. Consumers are saying "we have problems with these features and we'd like them fixed"... and MS is again saying "I hear you saying you don't want it but I think you're just saying you want me to tell you about how great they are again until you change your mind.
No.
https://youtu.be/dROwEc4VyJA?t...
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
"All your data are belong to us"
It's NOT FREE damnit, stop posting this nonsense.
Sent from Windows XP.
Posting anon for obvious reasons.
In a former life, there was some question about what and how far an org could go into customer data that was collected through remote telemetry or use of cloud services. A couple years ago, legal counsel informed us that we could capture, examine, and retain essentially any customer data, because any security-related review fell under the clauses about use of customer data for "enhancement of customer experience", to which the customer consented in the EULA. This is why some entities feel very free to capture any data they want from endpoint computers and effectively lie about it in marketing documents: because end-users consented to a free-for-all in the prior/overriding legal license.
Windows 10 Privacy = Oxymoron
All your base are belong to us.
Exactly how vital can they be if the fucking computer still works with no Internet connection?
If you're running automatic updates on 7 or 8 you already have the same "telemetry" components as well. Check for installation of 3035583, 2952664, 2976978, 3021917, 3044374, 2990214, 3022345, 3068708, all of which are windows 10 related components. It seems that the last two are the diagnostics/telemetry ones with the others having more questionable intent.
Microsoft describes these updates (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3068708) as honoring the CEIP choice and only doing the spying if the user has opted in. At least at this time however the server that microsoft identifies (vortex-win.data.microsoft.com) will have active connections even on machines where the CEIP choice was set to opt-out.
I'm sure once this gets some more media attention Microsoft will claim that they're storing the data just in case you change your mind, and that they wouldn't think of abusing it until then.
Or, for those who didn't understand the whole issue, they would just complain about site X no longer working.
Reminds me of Nook updates:
"This update makes minor changes to the Nook operating environment"
Translation: We're not telling you what we messed around with. Oh look. It just hid all of your book files. Including the books that were explicitly licensed for them to sell without DRM.
Basically, I think Microsoft is simply trying to get as much early adopter as possible, get lots of bug reports and fix the bugs/exploits in a timely manner. That could seriously speed up the rate of companies willing to upgrade their computers from Windows 7.
And as always, if something's free, it means you're the merchandise here. I don't blame Microsoft trying to make a buck of your back, you're free to stay on your current Windows version or look for an alternative product that suits better your needs...
Over twenty years ago there was a FreeBSD-hacker with the following signature: "Do not trust an operating system you don't have sources for".
Though I was then a fresh FreeBSD convert myself, the maxim seemed a little too radical to me... Not any more.
If you absolutely must use Windows, get a stripped-down variant via a Russian or Chinese torrent (there are reputable ones, which will not infect you). If you don't want to rob Microsoft, send them a check... But best is to just get an OS, for which sources are also available.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
I was gonna mod this but instead im going to reply. You go ahead and say whatever you want but the only user base that is going to go downward will be the webmasters sites that block windows 10. People are not going to switch to another OS just to use your site. I have never ever seen this happen once in all my years of tech support. Have a great day you gave me a much needed laugh.
In June, MS shipped a bunch of now-infamous "Telemetry Services" updates to Windows 7 and Windows 8/8.1. I forget what the exact Knowledge Base numbers are, but you can find them pretty easily. These updates were marked as "Important" in Windows Update, and actually have the same general description of "This update fixes some bugs and improves security" that they use for all updates if viewed in the Add/Remove Programs window.
The "Telemetry Update" has been proven to send information to MS, and cannot be controlled short of uninstalling the update and force-stopping the associated services. I was told that the "update" collects all of your keyboard input and ships it to MS for use in "improving" their Auto-Correct and Word Suggestion features, and I have no reason to believe otherwise.
I had to turn off Windows Update entirely on both of my machines in order to stop MS trying to ship this update after I uninstalled it, because it kept trying to push the update even when I specifically said not to install it.
"This water is only one degree hotter now than a few minutes ago," said the frog to his companions.
Microsoft, since its only product is software, has to go to great lengths to protect and extend that property base. "Extend" here is Googly data mining.
Apple, on the other hand, makes money by selling you the hardware. The protection is the physical ownership of the device. You might not believe Apple when it says "we don't want your personal information", but you have to respect that they're not depending on either data or software to make the great majority of their revenue.
This may not be a popular opinion, but I trust Microsoft more than Google, Apple -way more- than Microsoft, and the NSA more than any commercial company.
The article seems to only be telling half the story about previous versions of Windows and about sending data "critical" to the operation of Windows.
A. The Customer Experience Program could be opted out of.
B. Windows 10 only sends data "critical" to the operation of the system in the "basic" telemetry setting. It's funny how you can disable it in enterprise. I guess it must not be so critical, huh? I don't care what they do with home versions, but I take issue with not being able to do this in Pro. An individual cannot buy Enterprise.
C. It's not fair to compare this to Google. Google provides their products free of charge. Despite Microsoft giving out a free update, Windows is not free. You can purchase a retail copy. I'm sorry to criticize your apologist article, Verge, but these are issues that affect the company I work for. I don't care what you do with your personal computer; the government doesn't regulate that.
No, I think his point is more like "Never look a gift horse in the mouth while its trying to mount you." Or something like that.
Not if you put up an explicit message saying "This site is not available on Windows 10".
so, it is keylogging feature. Great ...
File this under "what could possibly go wrong"
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
My computer is not a phone. We need to lock down phones not open up desktops. Otherwise there is no point to encryption at all.
Swiss Pirate Party initiated an inquiry into Windows 10 privacy policy.
The end result of which (if it does not pass Swiss scrutiny) would be an official recommendation to prohibit purchase.
Two articles I found since yesterday that contradict statements in the summary:
* previous versions of Windows now spy on you becuase of recent MS updates: http://www.hakspek.com/securit...
* They still spy on you after you turn the "features" off: http://arstechnica.com/informa...
No! This was explained over and over again, if you upgrade in the first year your Windows 7/8 key becomes a permanent Windows 10 key for that device. You won't have to install Windows 7/8 before installing Windows 10 again.
UPgrade, you moron. You upgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 7!
"Paranoia, paranoia everybody's coming to get me." Well, we could all stop buying and using Microsoft products. Or we could go on slash dot and leave snarky comments about how Microsoft watches us pee and sells our keystrokes to ISIS.
If you're running automatic updates on 7 or 8 you already have the same "telemetry" components as well.
No, I don't. You see, the great thing about still being on Windows 7 is that I'm not forced to install whatever user-hostile updates Microsoft deems necessary. So I didn't.
By the way, neither did a lot of other people. Many of the professionals I know have been "security updates only" for quite a long time, even on personal use machines rather than work ones. Plenty more joined the fold recently after the Win10 nag message update.
It frustrates me that the casual press keep repeating the dogma that the forced updates in Windows 10 are a good thing because security experts recommend applying all patches immediately or similar, as if Microsoft hasn't been pushing non-security updates for years.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
No, I think his point is more like "Never look a gift horse in the mouth while its trying to mount you." Or something like that.
Maybe the point was "never play leap-frog with a unicorn".
'It's okay, it's already being done by Google' is NOT reassuring! D:
There are 32 Comments
All this talk about Windows made me rediscover Linux. Tried out latest Mint and was really pleasantly surprised by how well polished the thing is overall. Everything worked right from Live CD. Things that I could never get to work on Ubuntu even a year ago. Bluetooth speaker just connected, Android phone didn't make any components die a quiet death. Skype. All menus are reasonably laid out. Configurations work. Started being productive on it just after two hours of installation/configuration. Breath of fresh air.
uh... no. Dell buys Windows OEM licenses from Microsoft at five Dollars a pop, just like every other OEM. Trialware is the stuff that's bundled according to foregone deals with the likes of Symantec, McAffee, et. al., where the OEM doesn't take a cut of any license revenues but gets to use the trialware to sweeten the sale.
Sincerely,
A former OEM (95 O/SR2 to xp 2008 SP3).
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
Look under Settings/Privacy
There is a switch, which reads 'Send Microsoft info about how I write to help us improve typing and writing in the future'
This the collection of keystroke data. They can do anything they want with this. Definitely makes it even more creepy to log in to someplace else on a Windows 10 box.
Another thing which is standard practice is to list all kinds of serious and unlikely reasons they'll use your data, followed by 'or any other legal purpose' which does not mean for some 'legal' matter, which it's meant to sound like, but for ANY purpose which is not SPECIFICALLY ILLEGAL. Which means anything.
You can turn off the keystroke thing, but Microsoft routinely resets preferences, including privacy preferences, when you run an update. So you have to keep checking it and make sure it's off. However, I doubt very much if it matters. You're sending EVERYTHING to Microsoft and they can use it for any purpose.
Everytime you upgrade (or auto-patch, which you have no control of in Win10, at least for laptops and mobile) they will reset your privacy to "sell out to Microsoft all my deepest darkest info so they can monetize my life".
Even if this is illegal in the EU and Canada, because if you can throw legions of lawyers at it, you can't stop it.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
... I've been swamped with questions from the Gentle User, and articles like this help to explain stuff without placing me in a position of having an axe to grind.
I have shared it out and people are eating it up.
Much appreciated.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
of the data sent over the network, showing that Windows records from your webcam, from your microphone, _everything_ you type on the keyboard, and an index of all movie files you have on your drives, and regularly sends all of this back to Microsoft. And there's no way of disabling this. Why isn't this brought up?
Move along, nothing to see here. Microsoft has been trying to get their hooks into everybody just like Google and Facebook. If people don't care about their privacy and allow this kind of data collection in the name of "quality" and "focusing search results and ads.." "blah blah" we'll all become human centipads.
No, don't move on, don't ignore this stuff. Doesn't matter if it's been going on before, it's wrong and is starting to get very bad. We need to be taking a firm stance against this sort of stuff.
I guess maybe you are cool with it because they pay you a fee or something, but I, like other people, are not cool with it.
Be seeing you...
The Swiss data protection agency is now investigating windows 10's data sharing.
(Link in French) http://www.lematin.ch/economie/berne-lance-procedure-concernant-windows-10/story/29192122
No, I think his point is that Windows XP and Vista users aren't eligible to upgrade to 10 for free. And now I've explained the joke and it's no longer funny.
I've tested that theory in a VM and it turns out you can still use the old Windows 7/8 key just fine, along side the Windows 10 key. You have to use the automated phone service to re-activate your Windows 7/8 system, but it works just fine.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Microsoft stores your hardware configuration on their servers as a hash after the free upgrade to Windows 10. After that you can clean install any time you want as long as you have the same motherboard. They call this hardware based digital entitlement. I've already done a clean install of Windows 10 and it activated within a few minutes. When installing cleanly make sure to click on "skip" then it asks for a product key or the install will be borked. Even when MS makes things simple they overly complicate them.
I had the same thought. Apple gives away its operating system because they make money selling you the hardware to run it on. Linux is free because the developers either donate their time, or are paid by companies that make money selling support. Microsoft has always made money selling Windows. This one is essentially free (sure, new copies cost money, but who needs a new Windows license?). Why?
you've clearly never had to deal with people complaining that their Facebook doesn't work.
Don't try explaining to them that their browser is what's broken, not the website (for various measures of "broken"), they don't give a fuck at the wire gauge used in their talking toaster. They cannot and will not even try to differentiate between hardware and software, cached content and streaming, Telepresence (the Cisco brand) and Skype (the Microsoft brand). Wilful ignorance is the bliss of the average end user for which there is no cure and keeps we nerds in work.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
I recall a /. article a few years back explaining why 2 identical (hardware wise) laptops had different prices when shipping from Dell with Windows or Linux installed. The trial/crapware on the Windows system - those vendors pay Dell a couple of bucks per install to get eyeballs in front of them. No such thing on the Linux side. So the Linux laptops were $50 or so more than the same hardware with a Windows install on it.
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
Remove the following updates (if installed already)
KB971033 Description of the update for Windows Activation Technologies
KB2952664 Compatibility update for upgrading Windows 7
KB2990214 Update that enables you to upgrade from Windows 7 to a later version of Windows
KB3021917 Update for Windows Customer Experience Improvement Program
KB3022345 Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry
KB3035583 Update installs Get Windows 10 app in Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 SP1
KB3044374 Update that enables you to upgrade from Windows 8.1 to a later version of Windows
KB3068708 Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry
KB3075249 Update that adds telemetry points to consent.exe in Windows 8.1 and Windows 7
KB3080149 (update for CEIP and telemetry)
---
run cmd as administrator
sc stop Diagtrack
sc delete Diagtrack
*Task Scheduler Library:
Everything under "Application Experience"
Everything under "Autochk"
Everything under "Customer Experience Improvement Program"
Under "Disk Diagnostic" only the "Microsoft-Windows-DiskDiagnosticDataCollector"
Under "Maintenance" "WinSAT"
"Media Center" and click the "status" column, then select all non-disabled entries and disable them.
*services.msc:
"Remote Registry" to "Disabled" instead of "Manual".
...is the requirement of PERSONAL INFORMATION vital to the functionality of ANY user system nor is it pertinent to the intellectual property rights or protections otherwise under the Law of ANY company offering product and/or services for public consumption.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
that's... interesting, but not my experience. I don't know what Dell did to fuck up their pricing model so much but when I built for Linux the hardware was pretty much the same price if not cheaper.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
You have 30 days to roll back your decision, if you regret it. The question is whether you'll still be able to activate Win7 after that. I've archived my activation but that's motherboard-locked...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
They have fully integrated the MS app store (that started with Windows 8), and they are would appear to be marketing user data. They are monetizing the OS in a different way that I would rather avoid. My copies of Windows 7 are paid for, and don't include the app store at least. I am aware that some have said that some of the recommended Windows 7 updates may be pushing MS data collection. We'll see how this new model, which seems to be trying to emulate Apple in many respects, works for MS. I think they are making a mistake. But then again, the Enterprise version will probably be different, and less like adware and spyware combined. They will need to do something to get businesses to upgrade from 7, which many of them just finished upgrading to in the last couple of years.
A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
Get a packet sniffer on Windows ten. You can't run calculator without MS knowing.
Seriously. Try it. Every time you run any of the new-style apps, including calculator or the image preview, it opens up a brief encrypted TCP connection to a MS licensing server. I have a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Just ignore the bit about photoDNA at the end - that was a theory on my part that I've now determined is unlikely. It's not actually reporting on images, it's reporting on every time the image previewer is loaded. Or calculator, or sound recorder, or quite a few other things. I'm not sure that's much better.
I had quite a bit of fun at the weekend with wireshark seeing just what a freshly-upgraded no-software-installed Windows 10 reports, after setting every privacy option I could find to private. The answer is pretty much everything. Even if you disable searching from the start menu, it still executes the search - it just doesn't display the results. It fetches updates for the default tiles on the start menu (weather and news) even after you remove the tiles. It establishes mysterious TLS connections frequently that I can't identify the purpose of - some of them might be checking for updates, but I doubt it check for upgrades every few minutes.
Don't trust in my paranoia. Install wireshark and look for yourself.
The good news is that Windows 10 firewall can be made to block almost everything with a deny rule and a list of IP ranges. The bad news is that it's quite tricky to do so without also blocking windows update, Bing, the Windows store (No great loss) and I suspect a few Azure hosts.
No
It creates a new unique key by fingerprinting your hardware if you do an upgrade. MS wants they key to go away to prevent piracy and have you either buy a new pc with it or use it at work via autoKMS from a licensing server.
The work around is to use a program to extract the new key or unplug the pc during a Windows 10 start where safe mode tools will pop up. Select reset my pc and then reset all data. This will install a fresh copy from a hidden UEFI partition created during the upgrade for a fresh copy if you are so inclined. MS really did improve the upgrade process. Since 10 is so much more closer to 7/8.1 it won't recreate the same nightmare it did for XP to Vista/7 upgrades. In essences the Vista kernel and services are almost as different as Windows 9x to NT!
http://saveie6.com/
Actually Windows 10 is a lot more modern than 7.
Power wise there is a HUGE difference between 8.1/10 vs 7 on a laptop. Like double the battery life as MS has tweaked the kernel and services to be more mobile friendly.
Windows 7 was awesome and finally good similar to Windows 2000 in my opinion. However, it is dated now after 6 years. It's EFI mode is terrible and you need to go into the bios and disable it or put on CSM (compability support module) and emulate 1981 technology via the bios to get it to work?!
You can't have more than 4 primary partitions without a hack and more than 2 TB due to 1981 bios technology required. Some new pcs will let you use UEFI partitions via emulated drivers.
It boots slow due to bios limitations and CSM options. With it off on 8 and later your pc will boot in freaking seconds!
Security is much improved. Windows 7 scrambles ram so no injections without guessing where the other .dll files are running as administrator ... however you can still guess with a workaround :-( Windows 10 uses a better algorithm. Windows 10 has secure boot to prevent rootkits. Windows 10 has a better kernel level sandbox for IE, Chrome, and other apps to use and more separation of privileges.
With Onedrive and cloud all my settings are synced with my surface and desktop and Office defaults to save it on Onedrive which means I get all my copies on my Android phone, surface tablet, and pc.
Only problem with 8/10 I see is I find it ugly :-) I am typing this on 8.1 as I needed Hyper-V so 7 had to go. I got used to the lack of aero. Being flat is the new thing regardless of OS as every OS on the planet is following this new thing of turning it into a cell phone. Windows 10 update 1 redstone will have the option to change colors again for the title bar thankfully which I find ridiculous.
Other than that yes it is an upgrade and 7 feels and looks pretty dated now with its skuemorphic UI and slow speeds and bios dependencies.
No I am not a fanboy as I do not have 10 yet due to hyper-V being too different for my exams I am studying for (server 2012) so I am waiting until the holidays to upgrade. I am just saying if you need office work done and a few win32 apps Windows 10 is certainly an upgrade over 7 even if I like the look and simplicity of its UI. I could go on too from a technical viewpoint on using dism /online /cleanup-image /restorehealth instead of doing a re-image but that is another topic
http://saveie6.com/
Way to jeopardize the Net as a whole by teaching people to turn off and never trust updates again.
Go fuck yourself, Microsoft. Fucking idiots.
+1 Insightfully Informative.
Excuse #1 - Google, Apple..etc are doing it too. This is what 5 year old children say when they get caught doing something they know they shouldn't while their brother (Google) or sister (Apple) does not (this time). If you don't understand why this is a completely nonsensical position try following defense in court.. "yes your honor ... I was drinking and driving but everyone else I was with did it too so its ok."... Go ahead...see what happens.
Excuse #2 - ALL of your data is necessary to provide a feature. Examples like Siri, Cortana, Google voice are often paraded around. They need to rummage through your address book to know who "Frankenstein" is before they can call ... Need to know what's in your calendar and where you are at...right? Well no... your "Intelligent Agent" needs to know. There isn't any reason said agent can't execute locally and provide the same services if user prefers not to upload a list of all of their acquaintances and agendas to Microsoft. These systems are architected the way they are because spying is profitable not because they maximize value to end users. Your phone can know your at the florist without sending your location to Microsoft. Your phone can remind you to pick up flowers when you call someone. It isn't impractical or unrealistic to implement. It just isn't profitable.
Excuse #3 - Browser information leaks... Chrome, Firefox, IE keep thinking up new excuses with mostly negative to users to get a piece of everything you are doing with every revision. Some of this shit is offensive blatant one finger salute ...Sending your searches to bing even when you don't use bing.... Uploading your browsing history to Microsoft...there is no rational excuse for this and I can't believe anything approaching a majority of people want this to happen by "default" for any reason.
Excuse #4 - You can turn it off - Coupled with intentional UX design blurring demarcation between local and internet promoting accidental leakage and turns the leakage spigot to 11 by default knowing most users won't know, care or understand enough to change settings which increasingly are ultimatums or don't actually stop data leakage they purport to stop. Now the pot is really starting to heat up... Now Microsoft is retroactively saying fuck you people we will collect shit and there is nothing you can do about it. That they have the gall to say this to their *customers* I personally find amazing.
--
"Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary."
So do like I do..Buy said Dell system, wipe Windows off it, put your distro of choice on, and if you feel the need for Windows, like a program that Wine doesn't do, make a Virtualbox VM and use the Windows key that came on your machine. You'll likely have to call the automated phone thing to get it working, but I've done it multiple times on multiple machines... Only done on Windows 7 tho... Dunno/Don't care about whether it works on 8/8.1 or 10. Yeah.. I know its against MS's precious EULA.. Don't care.. Said Vbox VM gets fired up maybe once a month just to get patches... Other than keeping the VM for *emergency* use, Windows is dead to me... AND with Windows 10 being a spy-ware nightmare, I suspect a LOT more people are gonna investigate Linux...
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
From a meta point of view, what is really happening? If nothing else, there is some kind of breakdown between reasonable expectations of people who use Windows and the actions of Microsoft. Aside from particulars of what exactly is being or not being collected, Microsoft handled this poorly by not anticipating that many people are rightfully highly sensitive to data collection/telemetry/tracking issues, and the fact that it is being disclosed only via EULA legalese doublespeak only damages the situation by orders of magnitude.
Microsoft needs to have a press conference and set up a special page for users concerned about privacy and who want to know more about telemetry/tracking. You do not address users' concerns by blowing them off, but by engaging them.
In this day and age it is reasonable to expect that a complex system such as an OS actually needs to communicate with central servers for reasons related to routine the operation of the system. But what are those routine things?
All we get from EULA's is BS.
for a new amendment to the US constitution guaranteeing the right to privacy? Sure it's really tough to pass an amendment, really tough to enforce such a thing, but tough things need to be talked about prior to action. At least in this community I'm sure people would agree that privacy should be guaranteed - that people have the right to self-determine without undue influence - and that companies that want to sell software or that want people to use their software should agree to the users' terms, and not the other way around.
After all, this likely breaches a huge number of EU regulations. Maybe Microsoft has finally reached the stage of wanting to die, and die broke, drunk and in the gutter.
No I am not a fanboy..
;)
Come on Bill, no need to play coy with us.
[sarcasm]
If people don't care about their privacy and allow this kind of data collection in the name of "quality" and "focusing search results and ads.." "blah blah" we'll all become human centipads. [cc.com]
[/sarcasm]
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
Yes, google already does all this. No, that does not mean it is acceptable for my workstation (read:serious work computer) to be treated the same way as my mobile device (read: toy).
My phone is not used for banking, doing work for my employer, nor storing sensitive data of any kind, or any other serious purpose.
My workstation is.
Microsoft,
You failed at the one job you had to do. You need to have people to trust your OS. That is all. But you couldn't resist and loaded it with spyware and possible government back-doors. There is not a corporate account who will even consider this OS now.
I guess the even-number-windows-versions-are-crap rule continues.
...And signal the market that everybody wants Windows and not Linux, because all it sees are the Windows laptop sales figures.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Point 6: a whole bunch of semi-colon separated statements with no joining words. Does it mean they'll share the data when required by law, to protect themselves, security of the systems etc. Or do they connect them with ors: required by law, or "we want to" or ... ?
I'm fairly pro-MS and yeah I found this over the top biased towards MS "It's pretty clearly laid out this time. Reiterating it would only serve to be redundant." an ~10 line sentence connected with semi-colons is pretty far from "clearly laid out" to me.
...And signal the market that everybody wants Windows and not Linux, because all it sees are the Windows laptop sales figures.
If you really care what "the market" - whatever you're referring to there - thinks then pay the extra for the Linux version. Obviously it has no crapware subsidies and the cost of testing is amortized over a MUCH smaller amount of sales so naturally it is going to cost more, but cheapness shouldn't be the main sell here.
...somebody admitting that Window 10's privacy policy is having a breakdown.
I'd mod you up, but your link apparently requires JavaScript. So no ups for you. Also, no ups for most of everyone, ever.
Google and Facebook have been effective in getting everything from everyone, ever, but I don't see any trend like you suggest other than this immediate, or in other words not trend-like, Windows 10.
Sauce or GTFO. I vote for "recent and incompetent" rather than "habitual".
All those under-the-hood features sound nice and all, but the OS is completely and utterly unusable simply because of its shitty Metro UI.
Being flat is the new thing regardless of OS as every OS on the planet is following this new thing of turning it into a cell phone
My Linux systems with KDE don't have this problem at all.
Really? You are comparing Gnome 3/kde 4.x to a modern working start menu?
Is it crap because it is inferior? Or are you just not used to it due to muscle memory? I do not see Metro. I just see icons which dynamically change with info. Infact it is not metro enough on my surface tablet and too optimized for the desktop in my opinion if you ever owned one. But that is why 10 now has tablet mode.
But really the tile is just an icon with updated info. Outlook and use this too. These applets you hate you do not have to use.
Actually by next summer thanks to VS 2015 you will see ported IOS and Android apps as they can use up to 80% of the same code to be compatible with the universal API doing the other 20%. You can Dalvek and objective-C and clang to write apps.
But I am not a fanboy as I have an earlier version of Windows right now due to needing the same version of Hyper-V as 2012 R2 which is 8.1 for the time being. It works just fine.
http://saveie6.com/
Really? You are comparing Gnome 3/kde 4.x to a modern working start menu?
I'm not comparing Gnome3 to anything; Gnome3 sucks. KDE has a proper "modern" start menu, it's the way the Windows start menu should have been all along. The "menu" (which isn't a menu at all) in Metro is bullshit.
Is it crap because it is inferior?
Yes. It's absolute garbage. It's ugly, it's confusing, it even has two separate control panels for some stupid reason (there's a metro control panel, but it doesn't have much stuff in it, so you have to go find the hidden Win7-style control panel to actually change things). There is nothing good about it. It's obviously designed for tablets, but I'm not using a tablet. And if I were, it'd still be ugly as hell. WTF is with the ugly graphics and colors? It's like the Pontiac Aztek of UIs.
These applets you hate you do not have to use.
You still have to use the Metro interface any time you click on "start", unless you install some 3rd-party workaround software.
You can't have more than 4 primary partitions without a hack
Not so clear. I have primary partitions on 8 drives and that works fine...
more than 2 TB due to 1981 bios technology required
FUD. Those 8 drives are all 3 or 4 TB units and they all work fine (only the SSD is smaller)
It also boots in mere seconds.
OneDrive is a big downside of Win10. It's yet another required system tweak to eradicate that turd.
But then again, you're the ultimate fanboy (hey, you even bought a surface!) and you're spouting that same old marketing drivel that we've been hearing for 2 decades: faster (even when it's not), more secure, whatever.
Win8/10 adds very little of any value (unless you like built-in spyware), and instead of the "dated" Win7 looks, we get an even uglier 2D flat phone-like UI that is very much touch centric. The whole damn UI needs to be replaced, and all of that metro/modern/universal/whatever garbage has to be eradicated using powershell too.
Nope. Win7 is still the best option so far.
Really? You are comparing Gnome 3/kde 4.x to a modern working start menu?
I'm not comparing Gnome3 to anything; Gnome3 sucks. KDE has a proper "modern" start menu, it's the way the Windows start menu should have been all along. The "menu" (which isn't a menu at all) in Metro is bullshit.
Is it crap because it is inferior?
Yes. It's absolute garbage. It's ugly, it's confusing, it even has two separate control panels for some stupid reason (there's a metro control panel, but it doesn't have much stuff in it, so you have to go find the hidden Win7-style control panel to actually change things). There is nothing good about it. It's obviously designed for tablets, but I'm not using a tablet. And if I were, it'd still be ugly as hell. WTF is with the ugly graphics and colors? It's like the Pontiac Aztek of UIs.
These applets you hate you do not have to use.
You still have to use the Metro interface any time you click on "start", unless you install some 3rd-party workaround software.
Actually that is not metro. The old control panel is scheduled to go away but the marketing department just couldn't wait back to school sadly so it is was only half done.
The hamburger menus of the new is what kids and millennial prefer to use as it is what their phones and websites have been using since they were born. What we think is natural an old mac style menu's seem ugly and counter intuitive to them as a result. It is a win32 app.
Yes colors for title bars they are reading back as it was rushed ala Vista style in October with update 1. Just drag off the tiles you want and the menu is back.
What 8 sucked at was closed door syndrome. Things fly out at you. One app comes and everything is invisible. Stuff randomly opens and closes when you use a touchpad is another. All of them fixed.
I am waiting and you may not like but it surely is not unusable nor designed for tablets. It functions just like 7. You hit the WIndows key and type what you want. Or use a mouse if you like the old XP way of all programs which many have not learned a way. Anyway each to their own. I could use 10 if someone put a gun to my head. On 8 I needed several paid programs to undo the damage in comparison.
http://saveie6.com/
LOL! You? Not a fanboy? You're the worst fanboy I've ever seen! Hell, more like a hardcore shill!
Back in the day people ditched netscape for ie in troves because certain websites would work in ie only and nothing else. So people do pick what they use by the sites they can visit.
SOME are installed in the enterprise edition too :( cleansing them now. I can't express in words how fucking mad I am about this at this point. I have to run windows because my dev work runs on windows, but if that wasn't the case I'd be on another platform already.
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
It's NOT FREE damnit, stop posting this nonsense.
You're right, it's significantly overpriced for what you're getting.
I'll try it again later this month I guess. Right now I have both Windows 7 and the Windows 10 upgraded from it running side-by-side in VMs.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Microsoft was charging a fixed fee for each PC sold, regardless of the OS that was installed. Hence, Linux machines had to be more expensive.
*Every* install of a new Windows OS is faster.
But then you add programs and install updates and so on, and it slows down to where you started from.
The Windows 10 start menu is great. Instead of wasting time organizing a tree of apps you just search. The ones you use frequently you pin to the start menu, like you used to have icons crapped all over the desktop. Unlikely the desktop, you can get to the start menu without disturbing other windows.
Sod that stupid tree. I wasted enough time organizing that thing, and then re-organizing it when an app was updated and re-created its menu entries at the root again. I was already mostly searching anyway, I just needed to let go of needing that tree to be there in my mind.
The control panel has nothing to do with the start menu. Having two is stupid, but you are conflating the two issues. Your only other criticism seems to be that you don't like the graphics... It's fine, not hideous, and it's functional. Your complaint borders on nit-picking.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Well, look... I tryed Windows 10 at home (using a VM), tryed hard. And my honest conclusion is that the new GUI is a fucking, steaming piece of shit!! It is even worse than the ridiculous Android lollipop GUI!! Who are the asshole in charge of the visual design department at Microsoft these days? A monkey? The code under the hood can be excellent, but the interface to interact with it is so bad that even makes my eyes bleed!
Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
It is not ugly... Is FUCKING UGLY!
Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
Thanks
Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and Microsoft is only merging onto the limited access highway already paved by the likes of Google, Facebook, and others.
We've already became complacent with allowing "diagnostic data" being sent back to the developers. It's going to be hard to change that attitude now that most people waited until after "the frog was boiled" before realizing that maybe we should be concerned.
Some of us was already waving the caution flag but our concerns were downplayed because others argued that sharing information was a small price to pay for access to free software and services.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
The demand for linux desktops from Dell isn't high enough to justify selling access via crapware.
The same can't be said for Android. Look at the uninstallable crapware that comes with phones from certain manufacturers. Don't you think the software company paid said phone manufacturer for the opportunity to not only be preinstalled on the phone but also to make it not able to be uninstalled?
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
There are a lot of bad things in this new product. But just a handful of them are new and the rest are in older products as well. It's just getting slightly worse. That's almost like an improvement.
Great, then don't use Windows 10. I use my phone for banking sometimes. It also does store sensitive personal data, and I do have work email hooked to it.
KB 3035583 (primary nagware for Windows 10)
KB 2952664
KB 2990214 (Windows 10 upgrade)
KB 3021917 (Windows Customer Experience Improvement Program)
KB 3022345
KB 3044374 (Windows 10 upgrade)
KB 3068708 (update for CEIP and telemetry)
KB 3075249 (telemetry)
KB 3080149 (update for CEIP and telemetry)
So you're discounting 99% of the web over Javascript? Humm. It's not all evil, just mostly evil.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
You are also paying extra for support, as the vast majority of their users will use Windows on that hardware, and you want something else. Mainstream support is always cheaper than anything specialised.
Diagnostic data "vital" to the operation of Windows
M$ considers the Windows Update that nags you to upgrade to Windows 10 to be an "Important" update. Clearly they are on crack.
sc config "RemoteRegistry" start= disabled
We'll see how this new model, which seems to be trying to emulate Apple in many respects, works for MS.
But the one respect they cannot/won't emulate is changing their business model to a hardware-based monetization, where they actually sell Microsoft-branded hardware, and take steps to prevent their OS from running on Third Party hardware. By the way, Apple doesn't really prevent their software from running on compatible third-party hardware, but doing so violates the terms of the EULA. But Microsoft would have to actually use "tools" such as "Secure Boot" to "more aggressively" enforce their EULA, simply because of the sheer numbers of Windows-compatible hardware out there.
.
Until they do that, Microsoft will forever be forced to pay for Windows by pimping-out the Users' personal data
There simply is no other way, other than to charge OEMs an exorbitant licensing fee, which kinda flies in the face of "free", don'tcha think?
Now is the time to learn OS X
FTFY.
This is exactly right, I don't quite understand how people can still be so ignorant of the concept that "there is no such thing as a free lunch". How is it that people here are still surprised to find that out?
Apple's 'device' model is good, the hardware and software are integrated rather than separate things and it means the cost of the device is then used for both the hardware and software development.
This is exactly right, I don't quite understand how people can still be so ignorant of the concept that "there is no such thing as a free lunch". How is it that people here are still surprised to find that out?
Apple's 'device' model is good, the hardware and software are integrated rather than separate things and it means the cost of the device is then used for both the hardware and software development.
Right.
And bringing it back around to the point of this Thread, that also means that Apple's business model (and I suppose Linux') is the only one that doesn't depend on eating the souls of its victims, er customers.
But the problem with Linux is that it's Linux; which means that it is forever doomed to be relegated to the server room and the workbenches of hobbyists. It very well may "run" the Internet; but it will never be "The Year of The Linux Desktop". Never.
for fuck sake when did the audience for this site become so dimwitted and unintelligent.
Probably around the time it became overrun by Windows users.
Right on. I admit I never really gave them much thought before, but simply can't agree to the new eula.
Oh, should I have sugar-coated that?
Many people's issue is not that they will give this to their govenrment, but that they will give it to the US Government, regardless of juristriction ...
Shoudl I mutter something about no juristriction without representation ... ?
Puteulanus fenestra mortis
logo compliance kicking in there, I reckon - it was more than just a sticker, it said "I'm taking kickbacks from Microsoft to push this out with a crippled version of Office."
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel