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Ask Slashdot: How Would You Introduce Kids In Rural India To Computers?

asto21 writes: A friend of mine wants to introduce school kids in rural India to computers and could use some advice. Key questions: What learning material to use and how to source? What programming language to start with? What software to introduce them to? What games to introduce them to? Key constraints: The kids don't know much English and speak a local language called Odiya. There aren't any technical publications/resources in Odiya. Poor internet connectivity. No computer experts on the school staff. Any other advice/help would also be appreciated.

218 comments

  1. Start with the basics. by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 4, Funny

    FreeBSD, vim and python.

    Man pages are full of helpful stuff. You can set up a local ports/pkg jail. Setup a local Usenet and IRC server for Chat.

    1. Re:Start with the basics. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Start with the fundamentals - teach them assembly language.

    2. Re:Start with the basics. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      They don't need anything like that, they just need someone to help them get H1-B visas and they can learn on the job.

    3. Re:Start with the basics. by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sad but true.

    4. Re:Start with the basics. by MrBingoBoingo · · Score: 1

      You know the TI-92 is going for about $30 on Ebay. Great portable and durable beginner's computer. Also gets them started with the idea of a computer as a machine that computes rather than a social media scam machine.

    5. Re: Start with the basics. by bistromath007 · · Score: 2

      I really like how you ignored the problem's constraints and just recommended your favorite stuff most people in developed nations reject as educational tools.

    6. Re:Start with the basics. by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      I learned to program and the basics of loops, if, etc on a TI-89.

    7. Re:Start with the basics. by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      I thought the basics would be:

      Poor young Indian child, this is a computer.
      Computer, this is Srimadaddankithirumalavaraahavenkatathaa.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    8. Re:Start with the basics. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In India, the basics are sanitation, food, and medicine, to which rural folk in India have little access.

      How are they going to program a computer when they are still shitting in the woods?

    9. Re:Start with the basics. by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      How to introduce an Indian kid to computers? Here's how:

      See this here box? It's going to allow you to steal jobs from whiny yet wealthy Americans. Learn to use it and you've got it made.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    10. Re:Start with the basics. by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      "I learned to program and the basics of loops, if, etc on a TI-89."

      I just _had_ to learn it, it was the only way to get an advantage by cheating at computer games.

    11. Re:Start with the basics. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes!

      Clean drinking water, places to go to the toilet and a place to sleep that not on the ground. You know, the basics they do not have right now...

    12. Re:Start with the basics. by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      Have you been to India? There are places that would do really well with computers and have all the things you listed.

      By your metric parts of the rural US don't have the basics of sanitation, food, medicine, either.

    13. Re:Start with the basics. by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      One could then inform the parents that if their child learns this method of computer use that they will not need to bribe the instructors for the answers to the test questions, it will then make H1B entry cheaper and more efficient. A "win-win-win" if you will for both Microsoft/HP/Sprint/Disney/et.al. and mom and dad.

    14. Re: Start with the basics. by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      The only constraint I see is waking up in India, tomorrow morning.

    15. Re:Start with the basics. by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Yetti-scat has no declared nationality.

    16. Re:Start with the basics. by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      So, good plan, poor rural kids in India just need to save their wages for a few years, and buy a calculator. Programmers of the future!

    17. Re:Start with the basics. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      good plan.. now about those toilets!!

    18. Re:Start with the basics. by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      FreeBSD, vim and python

      Not remotely basic enough. Teach 'em calc (thank you, Newton and Leibniz) and how to use a goddamn slide rule. Hell, teach 'em how to use an abacus... but make sure they learn analog logic (including hydraulic and pneumatic circuits aka fluid logic) and then move 'em on to analog PLC's. Only when they've mastered all that shit (which they should have by the time they're in middle school, if you've started early enough) do you move 'em onto digital.

      They'll be unstoppable (unlike, sadly, most of you guys). ;)

    19. Re:Start with the basics. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Start with the basics: electric power

    20. Re:Start with the basics. by MrBingoBoingo · · Score: 1

      Great machine. 92 is basically the same, but with a dedicated Qwerty. Spectacular portable computer, and then the Algebra system which gives Mathematica a run for its money.

    21. Re:Start with the basics. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed; Just teach them how to apply to TATA and they'll know how to use a computer in no time

    22. Re:Start with the basics. by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      By hitting keys on a physical or virtual keyboard?

      Here in the first world, homeless people may shit between two cars but they have debit cards and cell phones.

    23. Re: Start with the basics. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The constraints in TFS include poor knowledge of English, no technical literature in the language the kids speak fluently, no technical advisers on staff, poor internet connectivity. Under those constraints, I'd suggest that BSD and vim are unlikely to be really useful. (I wouldn't want to start someone on vim as a first editor anyway.) Python is a good choice

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    24. Re: Start with the basics. by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      The national language is engrish, and the locals can't speak it? Sounds to me like a computer, also englesh based, ain't gonna add much more. Why wouldn't it be a good idea to get a english-stan tutor, first? Now that I think of it, one could bribe the tutor, a cultural trait in that part of the planet. Let the student bribe the computer, that, I would watch on youtube.

  2. Sounds like the Republicans... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    are looking for more cheap programmers. This is disgusting for them to take advantage of children like this.

    1. Re: Sounds like the Republicans... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Forcing children to work at gunpoint is disgusting. Of course that's how those republicans be.

    2. Re:Sounds like the Republicans... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They want us to sacrifice everything upon the alter of globalization. This is more of that, and it is a double bonus because brown kids will suffer while they will make profits.

    3. Re: Sounds like the Republicans... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get back in the cotton field, boy.

  3. Hello computer.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hello Computer...this is "insert Indian's name here"

    "Indian" this is Computer.

    1. Re:Hello computer.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Thanks, Dad.

  4. Hmmm ... why? by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Is this better than literacy? Sex ed? Things which they can use? Like even English or math?

    Or is this the growing trend of "ZOMG ... teh children must use teh computers"?

    Coding? Games? Maybe your friend is missing the damned point and doing this as a vanity project?

    Everyone is so damned excited to ensure every child on the planet is being taught "teh computers", and nobody seems to be stopping to ask if that's what they need most (or at all).

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:Hmmm ... why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If every child has a computer then every child will be on Facebook and Twitter. Gotta keep those active user bases growing!

    2. Re:Hmmm ... why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From reading the OP it is clear there were already plans for a computer learning lab, which exists to some degree. SO the above question, while valid, is moot.

      Teach them Scratch - https://scratch.mit.edu/

    3. Re:Hmmm ... why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I sort of agree with the spirit of your comment, but one could argue that once given access to the Internet, the rest of these things could be easier to transmit.

    4. Re:Hmmm ... why? by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Informative

      From reading the OP it is clear there were already plans for a computer learning lab, which exists to some degree.

      Oh, really?

      Key constraints: The kids don't know much English and speak a local language called Odiya. There aren't any technical publications/resources in Odiya. Poor internet connectivity. No computer experts on the school staff. Any other advice/help would also be appreciated.

      This doesn't sound like they have any infrastructure, expertise, technology, or a plan ... just "hey, let's show these kids computers".

      At which point, I seriously question if this serves any purpose or will improve these kids lives any.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    5. Re:Hmmm ... why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well if we can use the internet to teach all that you listed and allow them to learn coding why wouldn't we. Your being closed minded here.

    6. Re:Hmmm ... why? by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      It gets worse. "...we decided to introduce use of e-learning..." Yup the ubiquitous notion that with e-learning everything can be self taught, no need for teachers.

    7. Re:Hmmm ... why? by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This doesn't sound like they have any infrastructure, expertise, technology, or a plan ... just "hey, let's show these kids computers".

      Agree 100%. The submitter might have asked how they'd go about starting a space program.

      Teach them sex ed, hygiene, agriculture, and other basic skills that will actually help them survive. Knowing HTML isn't going to be of any bloody value to them at this time.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    8. Re:Hmmm ... why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The world needs more Java programmers from India

    9. Re:Hmmm ... why? by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      Well if we can use the internet to teach all that you listed and allow them to learn coding why wouldn't we.

      Except it sounds like they have no internet, no computers, no resources in their own language.

      Your being closed minded here.

      Or, perhaps, you're being hopelessly naive?

      We already see things about how technology doesn't magically solve education in North America and the like. People make these claims about how giving every kid an iPad or teaching them to code will do miraculous things.

      And the reality is there isn't really any evidence showing it's working.

      So when a bunch of people without backgrounds in education are hawking a bunch of technology solutions, with a distinct lack of evidence it will actually work ... my skepticism is well founded as all of these things smack of a bunch of amateurs saying "OMG, teh iPad will solve everything". They have no evidence or proof, and no expertise in teaching.

      The reality is, even in North America, this shit just diverts resources from things which actually work, and it really is vanity projects of tech people who make the claims that education will be revolutionized with technology.

      I'm not being closed minded ... I'm saying if they have no internet, no tech resources, the inability to get resources in their own language ... then I'm saying maybe it's better to look for things which can help and be useful, instead of just deciding that this will work and doing it even if it won't.

      As far as teaching them to code? I'm no more convinced a bunch of poor kids in rural India benefit from that any more than a bunch of poor kids in urban America. Because it utterly fails to address their most pressing educational needs.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    10. Re:Hmmm ... why? by narcc · · Score: 1

      If only they understood something other than an obscure local language...

    11. Re:Hmmm ... why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everyone uses computers. Kids will pick it up organically if they're exposed to them

      Just introduce them and let them bang at it, then guide them to more useful tasks. But they will need those skills. What non-basic-manual-labor task isnt done without a computer today?

      I don't know what the fuck is up with these neo-luddite scaremongers on Slashdot. Ignore them, and the usual clueless libertarian anti-public-education knuckle dragging circlejerkers. Oh. Also the racists that think all brown-skinned countries are little more than untapped mineral resources covered with a disposable labor force. Ignore them too.

    12. Re:Hmmm ... why? by TWX · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Teach them sex ed, hygiene, agriculture, and other basic skills that will actually help them survive. Knowing HTML isn't going to be of any bloody value to them at this time.

      I don't know. There are some cases where skipping some otherwise-logical steps actually works. My dad grew up on a farm that didn't even get electricity until the 1950s, has a well for fresh water, and had a friggin' outhouse until the sixties when a proper septic system (far away from that well) was installed. He got a degree in computing science (then still a sciences program rather than engineering or business) and made real gains in employment compared to his siblings that just went into whatever local trades or jobs were available in the area.

      When my brother and I were kids he got us a PC (an 8088, already obsolete as the 386 had been out for a couple of years) because we had Apple IIs in school, even though his entire career was big-iron and minicomps and he didn't deal with PCs themselves other than as a user; we used the books that came with the PC to learn how to work with DOS and with BASIC, and while I don't work with DOS or with BASIC anymore, the command line fundamentals I learned have applied to a career working with CLI-based servers and networking equipment, and some of the lessons from BASIC have helped when working with scripting languages like bash.

      It's not that they have to teach all of these Indian children how to use computers as experts, that's completely unrealistic. What they need to do is to provide access to computers that those kids that want to experiment with can learn on, things that are fairly simple without necessarily having all of the bells and whistles. The computer-software equivalent of a Heathkit.

      Kids that become good with computers will probably become the first adults from the region to become professionals with them. They'll drive demand for new infrastructure for computers in the area and will develop the ability to maintain it. That will open up the area for more use outside of professional interest, which will in-turn help foster interest and will continue to help drive an increase in infrastructure.

      I don't know what to do about the language barrier, nor do I know what specific platforms and software would now make a good equivalent to that DOS/BASIC/8088 setup I learned on, but going to tablets with Windows 10 or going to fully-loaded Linux boxes with vi are probably not the right approaches. The TI idea sounds good, but the platform might not be quite significant enough either.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    13. Re:Hmmm ... why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you - came here to say the same thing. We can't even get the basic needs for these children met. WTF?

    14. Re: Hmmm ... why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great, so ignore the bigger issues like quality of life, because fuck em, we need them banging out HTML at 5Â an hour right?

    15. Re:Hmmm ... why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm CTO of a US company who employs 40+ people in India. I'll be taking my 5th trip to India this Fall.

      Teaching rural kids programming is NOT going to improve their lives. They are not going to get jobs in IT. I can hire developers who attended IIT for $3k/month. I need quality, not lower labor rates.

      If you want to improve the lives of rural kids, work toward skills they need for jobs they could get: waiter, store worker, laborer, farmer, driver, hotel worker, etc. They need basic math and language skills. English is really important.

      Basic computer literacy would be helpful, but programming is a waste of effort.

    16. Re:Hmmm ... why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From reading the OP it is clear there were already plans for a computer learning lab, which exists to some degree.

      Oh, really?

      Key constraints: The kids don't know much English and speak a local language called Odiya. There aren't any technical publications/resources in Odiya. Poor internet connectivity. No computer experts on the school staff. Any other advice/help would also be appreciated.

      This doesn't sound like they have any infrastructure, expertise, technology, or a plan ... just "hey, let's show these kids computers".

      At which point, I seriously question if this serves any purpose or will improve these kids lives any.

      Yes really. The computer lab already exists - whether it should or not is a separate question.

      From the article:

      Children of all classes are now learning basics of computers, how to use MS office tools like Word, Power-point, Excel etc. and are super happy to be doing so. There are going to be tutorial videos as well in Odia so that the dependency on the teacher is not very high.
      Kids learning to type
      Kids learning to type
      This is all good, but does someone really need to be taught how to use Word, Excel or Powerpoint? They are all intuitive and can be self-taught. Shouldn’t the purpose of a computer lab be much beyond that?!

      There is even a picture of the kids in the lab.

    17. Re:Hmmm ... why? by LoverOfJoy · · Score: 1

      Maybe they already have classes for reading, sex ed, and math. Just because they don't have much in the way of computers yet doesn't mean they have neglected everything else. And maybe computer skills is more marketable in their region (perhaps a relatively short bus ride to a major city) than being able to speak English.

    18. Re:Hmmm ... why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because they don't have much in the way of computers yet doesn't mean they have neglected everything else

      You're right... there are plenty of other indicators which show they have neglected everything else. Like the fact that 50% of homes lack a toilet, over 70% in rural areas. Or the fact that access to potable water is even worse, the fact that many rural areas have little or no access to emergency services, properly developed roads, and the 'court system' consists of a local village Elder who decides everything.

      And maybe computer skills is more marketable in their region (perhaps a relatively short bus ride to a major city) than being able to speak English.

      There are literally thousands of dialects spoken in India. It's rather difficult to use a computer when you can't read or speak the language in use at all.
        The closest thing you will find to a common language in that country is English. So it makes more sense to start by teaching them English so they CAN use the computer, and so they CAN actually look for a job in the market.

    19. Re:Hmmm ... why? by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      It's funny, but there's some truth to that. Just not in the corporate overlord case.

      Back in College in the 1970s, one of the most popular programs on the mainframe was a chat program, allowing you to chat with other people on campus. Many freshman--brand new to college life and not necessarily feeling comfortable--used those programs to talk to people, people they might not normally have met.

      It was an interesting way to introduce them to--and get them comfortable with--using a computer. Suddenly, it might dawn on them that they could use this for things like term papers or the like. They might even become interested in how this stuff works.

      Yeah, over time the freshmen found other things to do to acclimate. A few would still hang out on the chat programs after their freshman year, mostly to arrange to meet up with other friends.

      I agree with you somewhat--the children will end up on Facebook or Twitter because that fulfills an actual need to communicate with other people. But some of them will find other uses for it and some of them will become interested in how they work.

    20. Re:Hmmm ... why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why don't you try following the link? That's got a lot of actual, specific details about their setup.

    21. Re: Hmmm ... why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't it be better to have Java programmers come from Borneo, it's so much closer to the source.

    22. Re:Hmmm ... why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is pretty much the answer.

      They dont know English ?, start teaching them English
      You dont have computer savvy staff ? start training your staff and looking for adequate staff
      You dont have good access to internet ? get good access to internet.

      Those 3 are basic

      English could be dodged for the very basic stuff but they will hit the wall eventually, imho knowing enough English to read technical text is must have education these days.

      Teachers trying to teach something they do not understand is like trying to have pigs teach ducks how to fly

      And the internet is as basic to a computer as the AC plug, any basic computing will need to at least include a "how to google things" lesson

    23. Re:Hmmm ... why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Technology, like most anything else, can be taught at any level. Any school who thinks laptops, ipads, etc even remotely improves learning is clueless. Technology is a TOOL any ONLY a tool. So helping with studying, sure, I'll buy that, but learning, nope. It should be something you learn how to use AFTER you actually learn how to do the work. Do you learn math by being handed a calculator? That is exactly what will happen. These people will learn how to use computers but will not actually learn.

      These people are in much much more need of other skills and necessities. A computer is not one of them.

      Hey, I have this really cool computer, I can get on the internet. But I got sick and spent the last 2 weeks in bed shitting myself because I drank some unsanitary water for the 3rd time this year...

    24. Re:Hmmm ... why? by TWX · · Score: 1

      Did I specify an age at which I thought that students should start learning to work with computers? Did I state that general-education curriculum should be applied to those computers?

      I believe I advocated for the computers to be used as a form of technology-specific class, not as a general-purpose tool.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    25. Re:Hmmm ... why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A new report published today by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) says that “even countries which have invested heavily in information and communication technologies for education” cannot point to improved reading, mathematics or science among students. Teaching basic literacy and numeracy, the report adds, “will do more to create equal opportunities in a digital world than solely expanding or subsidising access to high-tech devices and services.”

      The organisation reached those conclusions after looking at results of the 2012 Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA), a multi-country effort to measure student performance in 59 nations. PISA 2012 saw over 500,000 15 year-olds tested on a range of skills. Many also took an “ICT familiarity questionnaire” that required them to “ use a keyboard and mouse to navigate texts by using tools like hyperlinks, browser button or scrolling, in order to access information, as well as make a chart from data or use on-screen calculators.”

      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/15/dont_bother_buying_computers_for_schools_says_oecd_report/

    26. Re:Hmmm ... why? by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      Exactly, start by teaching them english... english is widely spoken in india, so they will have far more freedom to travel outside of their local area, not to mention communicate with people outside of india and read educational literature / documentation.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    27. Re:Hmmm ... why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh you are sooooo right, are we consigning these people to tech support careers at call centers in Texas? Do a Ben Stiller and put up a school (remember what those are?)
       

    28. Re:Hmmm ... why? by thecombatwombat · · Score: 1

      You're essentially engaging in a false dichotomy. I think there's a better, more precise term for exactly what you're saying but that's good enough.

      Who said teaching them about computing in any way detracts from those other subjects?

      This comes up in charity all the time. "You shouldn't care about that/those people because this is worse/these people have it worse!" Follow the link. Ten computers were donated, so they're being used. Maybe they should use them to teach the subjects you mention, but the two are not exclusive, and suggesting using them does not suggest they are more important than other things.

    29. Re: Hmmm ... why? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Why, doesn't Java have any Java programmers?

    30. Re:Hmmm ... why? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      If you need quality, why are you hunting for programmers in India? Too many of Indian programmers were formerly students of other disciplines, like Chemical or Mechanical Engineering, Biology and so on. Scour Eastern Europe, and you'll get better results.

      But I agree w/ your other statement - programming is not gonna improve their lives. They could start in something like logistics, which is needed in the agricultural sector, and then they could use that experience to get into other areas that could use that well.

    31. Re:Hmmm ... why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe there's a TED Talk of a guy in India who essentially did just that, but with poor city kids. He set up a kiosk, and left it alone. It didn't take too much time for the kids to figure it out (I think it was English Win95 or something like that, even). It got to the point where they even were fixing the damn thing, too.

      Kids collectively can be smarter than we adults really want to give them credit for...

    32. Re:Hmmm ... why? by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      From reading the OP it is clear there were already plans for a computer learning lab, which exists to some degree.

      Oh, really?

      Key constraints: The kids don't know much English and speak a local language called Odiya. There aren't any technical publications/resources in Odiya. Poor internet connectivity. No computer experts on the school staff. Any other advice/help would also be appreciated.

      This doesn't sound like they have any infrastructure, expertise, technology, or a plan ... just "hey, let's show these kids computers".

      At which point, I seriously question if this serves any purpose or will improve these kids lives any.

      As someone who actually grew in a very poor country, I agree with this post.

      I'm willing to bet a testicle that those kids have serious needs of a different kind: vaccination, nutrition (just because you are not starving that does not mean you are growing up well nourished, from experience, I know what I'm talking about here.), availability of vocational training that they can employ in ther socio-economic context, etc, etc.

      Kids in those situations need to get good nutrition, good meals in school, basic hygiene and vaccination, a focus on a mainstream language (English or Hindi), math and literacy, and vocational programs that can help them in their society.

      There are realities that need to be dealt with before one even begins to contemplate the idea of bringing computers to the masses. Stupid first world mentality I tell you.

    33. Re:Hmmm ... why? by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Why from India? Because they do have lots of very talented developers, regardless of your preconceived notions tell you.

    34. Re:Hmmm ... why? by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      The computer itself may introduce some English, even if it's just begin, end, start, stop, run, open file, close file, edit, quit, save (or continue, game over, score, high scores)

      If you're using e.g. a program that combines an editor and BASIC interpreter you can learn both at the same time. Think of 8/16bit home computers and game consoles : most everything was in English world-wide, although there were many other major languages like Spanish, French, Deutsch etc.

    35. Re:Hmmm ... why? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Internet access can help with those basic skills, although I think the kids would need better English skills for it to be really useful.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    36. Re:Hmmm ... why? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The AC said he can hire IIT grads for $3K/month, which does not look like bottom-feeding to me. India is not a developed country, but it's working on it, and there's a lot of differences between one place and another. India has some very good people. It also has some very cheap people. So far, I haven't seen an overlap.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    37. Re:Hmmm ... why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They probably do, but they haven't worked for any of the different consulting firms that have worked for my company or any of them that I have interviewed. You would be better off staying in the same hemisphere and hiring developers in Mexico, anywhere else in Latin America or the rural US. Then you wouldn't have to travel so far to visit them and have to deal with such extreme time zone differences for meetings. They would also be less likely to answer "yes" to every question you ask them (or whatever the answer they think you want to hear). I know a project manager at a contract electronics manufacturer and had people working on her projects on just about every major continent at one point or another. She hates working with Indians because "they will lie to your face at every step along the way until the inevitable train wreck occurs and there's no way they can BS themselves out of the corner they've painted themselves into".

  5. Gaming by pak9rabid · · Score: 1

    Computer gaming. If they take an interest to it, the rest will come naturally.

    1. Re:Gaming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IKR. I got into PC gaming at 6 and soon starting to learn scripting with the tools bethesda gave out to mod their games!

  6. Don't over-think it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Given time the kids can teach themselves:
    http://www.ted.com/talks/sugata_mitra_the_child_driven_education?language=en
    http://www.ted.com/talks/sugata_mitra_shows_how_kids_teach_themselves?language=en

    1. Re:Don't over-think it by Billy+the+Mountain · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I heard this on the Ted Radio Hour. Kids were learning how to use the computer even when the computer was in another language the kids weren't familiar with.

      --
      That was the turning point of my life--I went from negative zero to positive zero.
  7. I wouldn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pencil and paper. Then abacus and slide rule. Same anywhere for that matter.

  8. I wouldn't. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    They'll just end up working for "Microsoft Support" and scamming Grandma again.

  9. Try English, clean water, and toilets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It sounds like computer literacy is the least of their worries.

    1. Re:Try English, clean water, and toilets by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

      Especially English.
      Clean water, toilets and computers can be picked up later. But foreign languages are best learned early.

      And if the trend of outsourcing to India continues, English is a very valuable skill.

  10. Windows 10. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    They won't have to worry about passwords, they can log in with their smile. Let them grow up on Windows 10. A more human way to do.

    1. Re:Windows 10. by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Actually, this is a good place to start. Since the submitter's question is about one of the more backward states in India, not your Bangalore or Pune or Noida or Chennai.

      A good place to start would be w/ either Windows Phones or touchscreen laptops/tablets, like an Asus Transformer. Show them the basic Windows apps that they're more likely to find useful. Like Mail, Maps, Edge, Weather,... Also, in the keyboard preferences area, add a keyboard and select 'Odia', which is the language in question. I'm not sure to what extent it's supported (support for Indian languages other than Hindi is sketchy at best, and I doubt that even Hindi support is much to write home about), but at least, they can type Word or LibreWord documents in Odia, for starters. A laptop or a PC wouldn't be useful since all keyboards are in English, and AFAICT, there are none in the language in question here.

      As far as the games go, most Indian kids are already into the popular phone games like Temple Run, so nothing much to do here.

  11. Sounds like your friend is a moron by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If they can't read anything on the screen because it's in another language, then obviously you're going to have to teach them the other language first.

  12. Well if you want to talk about games. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well if you want to talk about games there's a extreme modding community and if you were to ask for help translating a game into something these kids could understand I'm sure it would gain support. Tbh Minecraft wouldn't really need to be translated keep it English and they'll be able to learn a little bit of it. XD I wish I could go back to playing CS:GO and Halo CE in the school library!
    But this is serious so I would go modders or Minecraft.

  13. There are actual teachers in India, you know... by ZeroPly · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Your friend might not grasp this fully, but there are quite a few qualified teachers in India, who actually know how to use computers. A good first step might be to contact them, and see what they think, rather than asking a bunch of people on the Internet who haven't actually been to rural India. It's entirely possible that the teachers think kids should focus on basic subjects rather than learn Excel.

    Barring that, ask your friend to get a copy of a book called "The Ugly American" by Burdick and Lederer. I'm about 95% sure that he hasn't read it.

    --
    Support microSD: in a post 9/11 world, it is unwise to carry your data on media that you cannot comfortably swallow.
  14. First, listen to every talk by Sugata Mitra ... by stongef · · Score: 3, Informative

    This guy has a few clues on what can help, and he has done what your friend wants to do: http://www.ted.com/talks/sugat.... He might already have some project going on in India on which you can latch on to avoid re-inventing the wheel ...

    1. Re:First, listen to every talk by Sugata Mitra ... by fishscene · · Score: 1

      I was just about to post this very link when I saw you already had. Well done.

    2. Re:First, listen to every talk by Sugata Mitra ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's clear from the submission that this is a vanity project, and that improving quality of life is a tertiary concern, at best.

    3. Re:First, listen to every talk by Sugata Mitra ... by nikkipolya · · Score: 1

      That Sugata fellow is dozing off... Hes like Obama, all talk and no walk.

  15. You say: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bacc, yaha ka kampyara hai

  16. Ask theodp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why not ask theodp? He seems to know everything about CS education. He also knows who should be educated, and who should not. He is an expert on the subject. Just don't try and take his jerb. He doesn't like that.

  17. Minecraft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Give them Minecraft, and some sort of word processor to do homework in. The rest will take care of itself

  18. Embedded Programming by MarkvW · · Score: 1

    Solar power embedded programming. Start with programming toys. Then on to useful stuff.

  19. Stop the non-sense. by kamathln · · Score: 2

    What they really need is scientific and strategic thinking on how to take their life ahead, manage the village life, their farms more modern and productive, etc. in a smart way, etc. Simply throwing computers and computer education around without first giving them the fundamentals does not help at all. It just adds to the problem.

    That said there are many ideas:

    Write or install software where they can create friendly quiz for each other on various topics.
    Teach them how to draw graphs and interpret them.
    How to use maps.
    If there is internet in a far away school, let the children interact with each other over Video Chat once in a month with proper agenda on discussing something important.
    Really, there is no limit to how they can use computers to make their life more interesting and better , all limited by imagination.

  20. Games by ventsyv · · Score: 1

    Start with computer games. Things like Solitaire are notoriously good in teaching mouse control. Keyboarding skills are also important, so I would recommend a typing game such as typing racers etc. Once you have those basic skills and you want to progress to programming, keep the fun going by introducing them to Scratch.

    1. Re:Games by ventsyv · · Score: 1

      Also just because there is no Internet, does not mean you can't introduce them to networking. Setting up a LAN and running a HTTP server (for example) is not that difficult. You can set up a Wiki with educational resources, IRS server, etc, etc.You can bring the Internet to them (as limited as it might be).

    2. Re:Games by ventsyv · · Score: 1

      And by IRS, I mean IRC, don't set up IRS...

  21. Just give them a tough computer and leave. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    According to this guy, just give them the computers and leave:

    http://www.npr.org/2013/06/21/179015266/how-much-can-children-teach-themselves

    http://www.hole-in-the-wall.com

    1. Re:Just give them a tough computer and leave. by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

      That's how it worked for me. I later went on to college and got a degree in electrical engineering.

  22. Draw upon history. by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 1

    Offer them H1B's.

    1. Re:Draw upon history. by Neo-Rio-101 · · Score: 1

      ...and help them overthrow the Hindu caste system that discriminates against them getting computer-based jobs.

      --
      READY.
      PRINT ""+-0
  23. UI design is the needful by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    I'd teach them UI design. I'd start by beating into their heads that when you click on a story title you expect to open the story so you can post on it, not toggle the description's visibility.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    1. Re:UI design is the needful by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      I'd teach them UI design. I'd start by beating into their heads that when you click on a story title you expect to open the story so you can post on it, not toggle the description's visibility.

      Now that's just crazy talk! ;)

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    2. Re:UI design is the needful by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      I middle click on the story title, works fine for me every time. You can also left click on the number on the right hand side that depicts the number of comments on a story, but that doesn't allow FP!!!

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  24. Sugata Mitra by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Check out the projects of Sugata Mitra, http://www.ted.com/talks/sugata_mitra_shows_how_kids_teach_themselves?language=en

  25. Buy a couple of old OUYAs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Allow them to chop up and hack apart the OUYA's while educating them they're more than just gaming machines.

  26. not another tech savior... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is the same conundrum as the hundreds of non-profits popping up. You're more effective by joining efforts.
    One story I heard from NPR is of a Microsoft researcher visiting India for this exact same reason. Everything went well with great research data. As a follow up three years later, the test school went back to paper-based learning. Why? No IT staff to perform maintenance on the computers. Constant brown-outs. Mouse failing. All these computer issues disrupted so much of the 50-minute course (or rather, teachers playing tech support instead of teaching), that they eventually went back to the blackboard. All the computers are now collecting dust in a closet.

    On the other hand, this is a fascinating idea, by Sugata Mitra:
    http://www.npr.org/2013/06/21/179015266/how-much-can-children-teach-themselves

  27. I wouldn't... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We don't need rural kids from India competing with American kids in STEM industries. Those rural kids in India need agriculture, not computers.

  28. Infrastructure, computers, then curiosity by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1
    First, get an infrastructure of some sort in place so that computers work in rural India.

    .
    Second, get usable computers to rural India.

    Third, step back and let it happen.

    .

    If you want to build a ship, don't herd people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea.

    -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  29. Language by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd probably try Hindi first.

    1. Re:Language by nikkipolya · · Score: 1

      He said they speak Odiya and not Hindu.

    2. Re:Language by tepples · · Score: 1

      Perhaps AC meant "Teach the Odiya speakers English and Hindi first so they can interact with the majority".

    3. Re:Language by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably more resources to go from Hindi to Odiya then English to Odiya.

      You are also more likely to find the kids have been exposed to some hindi where as they have probably never heard a word in English.

  30. Two Words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Windows. Ten.

  31. Odisha, you say? DigitalGREEN is there. by mekkab · · Score: 1

    Given that USAID partnered with DigitalGREEN to teach them to wash hands before feeding children (but after handling cow pies) by showing videos on a lappy with small digital projector, you may want to talk to someone at DigitalGREEN.

    http://www.digitalgreen.org/di...

    --
    In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
  32. Don't fucking do it! by drew_92123 · · Score: 1

    Please, for the love of all that is good in this world, don't do it!

    I'm so fucking tired of being connected to India when I call for support... between the language barrier and them just not giving a shit about your problem I'd like to kick their teeth in.

    1. Re:Don't fucking do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't educate kids because companies I buy from provide shitty "support"!

  33. Look for Africa Experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See what the other individuals and organizations have done in Africa with the very same constraints. The successes, the disappointments, the challenges and the requirements for longevity of a project is such conditions.

  34. Walk before you can run... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Get them some clean running water, clean sanitation, and basic human rights before you go worrying about computers...

  35. Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Sunil, this is Computer. Computer, this is Sunil."

  36. Zod the Destroyer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd introduce them to my autonomous, computerized, weapons platform as it crushes their puny village underfoot. Flee children! Flee before the might of Zod!

  37. Give 'em the computers and stay out of the way by taustin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As One Laptop Per child demonstrated, they'll learn on their own if given a chance.

    "Earlier this year, OLPC workers dropped off closed boxes containing the tablets, taped shut, with no instruction. “I thought the kids would play with the boxes. Within four minutes, one kid not only opened the box, found the on-off switch powered it up. Within five days, they were using 47 apps per child, per day. Within two weeks, they were singing ABC songs in the village, and within five months, they had hacked Android,” Negroponte said. “Some idiot in our organization or in the Media Lab had disabled the camera, and they figured out the camera, and had hacked Android.”"

    Note these are children who had never seen writing before, working with computers that did not include their local language.

    1. Re:Give 'em the computers and stay out of the way by ventsyv · · Score: 1

      That much is true, but imagine the possibilities if they had someone knowledgeable to teach them?

    2. Re:Give 'em the computers and stay out of the way by taustin · · Score: 1

      It's a question of cost vs benefits. Would you rather help 50 kids with computers and a teacher, or 500 with just the computer, who will get 75% of the benefits? And that can be a tough question. The cost of a teacher can be considerable, compared to a box of Raspberry Pi kits.

    3. Re:Give 'em the computers and stay out of the way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given that the teacher would give "directions" it may actually be a better thing when they don't have one.

  38. Teach them to lie, cheat, and steal. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And get them a job at DHI.

    1. Re:Teach them to lie, cheat, and steal. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why are there so many retarded comments on slashdot now? I remember back in the 90's when you could have an intelligent discussion here.

  39. Computers 'do not improve' pupil results says OECD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34174796

    Investing heavily in school computers and classroom technology does not improve pupils' performance, says a global study from the OECD.

    The think tank says frequent use of computers in schools is more likely to be associated with lower results.

  40. Ask Sugata Mitra by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Take a look at Sugata Mitra's TED talk.

  41. screw the computer by quonsar · · Score: 1

    teach them how to dig wells and apply condoms.

  42. Export em by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    H1bs for everyone

  43. Re:Sounds like the Liberals... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So from your post you posit that liberals love Muslims, hate Christians and hate people who refuse to make cakes for LGBT couples.

    Well as someone who probably falls on the liberal end of the spectrum:

    I don't particularly like or dislike Muslims. I served in Iraq and feel that many of them are good people! I do think that the way their religion can be interpreted/misinterpreted due to the lack of any sort of central religious authority has led to the rise in Muslim extremism and I think they need to look at fixing that. Ohh and yes, yes I do believe that Muslims extremists are primarily a Muslim problem. Religion save thyself.

    I also do not particularly like or dislike Christians. I feel that many of them are good people and that they have their heart in the right place about a lot of things. I do hate it when they try to enforce their belief structure via the law. I mean why can't I buy booze on Sundays? If we are going to pick a day of the week lets go for Wednesdays. That and some of the pure hypocrisy. If you don't want to sign the marriage certificate for gay couples, then why to you sign it for couples who have divorced? Aren't they both against the bible? Religion, save thyself.

    Now on to cakes. Can a business owner say they wont make a wedding cake for a mixed race couple? No? They why do they get to say they wont do it for LGBT couples? If you are not allowed to discriminate against one protected class why should you be able to discriminate against another? What if it was a white male and a white female, and both of them have been divorced before, do you make a wedding cake for them? Yes? But if they did something that your bible finds taboo, then shouldn't you turn them away? No this is more hypocrisy and forcing of beliefs.

    Nonetheless this is all off-topic and feeding the trolls. It will probably mean nothing in the long run but hey I tried.

  44. Don't. by FuegoFuerte · · Score: 0

    Chances are, they need safe food and clean water far more than they need to know how to use a computer. Once they have that, work on things like ending child marriages and treating women like property. Go from there.

  45. First give them toilet paper and bug spray by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then show them the miracle of indoor plumbing and proper sanitation. Then make the kids peddle the generators so you can play Farmville on a giant public screen.

    Christ! What kind of crap are you fucking people pushing here?

    1. Re:First give them toilet paper and bug spray by quonsar · · Score: 1
      Then make the kids peddle the generators

      PEDAL. What're you, from India or something?

  46. Copy and paste is all there is to really learn by nikkipolya · · Score: 1

    Why teach them to code? If they've mastered copy and paste they are ready to take on coding jobs. Teach them to mine bitcoins instead.

  47. Hello kids. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am computer.

  48. The best way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd start with Clippy.

  49. Teach curiosity and don't assume any knowledge by kilepa · · Score: 2

    A curious person will want to learn; without curiosity, anything is rote memorization and won't go far.

    Don't assume good electricity and don't assume internet connectivity; it may not exist. Don't assume basics like keyboarding skills and mouse movements. In fact, don't assume much. Learn from knowledge gaps observed elsewhere: A friend who tries to bring science to rural communities in Maharashtra starts by teaching kids about the difference between an analog watch & a compass. It may seem silly, but if a person has little experience with either may not know the difference. Back to the curiosity: get the child curious about how the compass always knows to point north. Then show how a nearby DC current (battery / wire / light bulb) can move the needle. To me, these give the grounds for engaging curiosity.

    Whenever the teacher then gets around to computers, a curious person will want to know why backspace allows corrections to happen, how a spreadsheet can do math, etc.

    And expect all levels within India as is true throughout the world: Each person is unique. Some people are geniuses awaiting discovery; others will be lazy or lack the natural talent to thrive with technology.

  50. Simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1. Give them your job.

  51. Re:Sounds like the Liberals... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As someone that isn't completely devoid of ration, yes, a business has every right to deny someone, ANYONE, service. Just because I own a shop doesn't mean I am FORCED BY LAW to sell you something.

  52. odiya? They changed the name again? by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2
    Before we teach these kids anything, we need to teach the local politicians to stop renaming everything in sight. This state used to be called Orissa and the language Oriya. Now they call themselves Odisha and Odiya. Bombay became Mumbai, Madras became Chennai, Calcutta became Kolkotta, Bangalore became Bengaluru. And these politicians with straight face list this name change as a great achievement in campaign speeches.

    They rename streets too. Streets named after British civil service officers ages ago get renamed after Indian dignitaries. These narrow short streets in the middle of town totally overwhelmed by population growth get renamed. At the same time in the suburbs roads named imaginatively 120 feet road, 80 feet road, 18th main road, 14th cross road, HAL Third Stage etc retain their difficult to remember names. A guy named A Brito used to write letters to the editor in Indian Express, Bangalore edition a lot when I was there. He got really fed up when they renamed yet another tiny street. He proposed to rename the Queen Victoria statue as Mayor Butte Gowda statue.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:odiya? They changed the name again? by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 0

      There are reasons for some of this - partly the difference between what the locals call a city/place, and what the people that the Europeans first talked to called it, usually in a different language or dialect. Thus, it's not about "changing the name" so much as "getting other people to call it what we've actually always called it." Now, I'm less familiar with India specifically, but I know this was the case in China for instance (and particularly the difference between Mandarin and Cantonese readings of the same characters, as with Peking and Beijing). In other cases, it's simply become accepted that the name is different for other languages - for instance, Japanese people don't call themselves "Japanese" or their nation "Japan" generally, the word in Japanese is Nihon/Nippon, with the commonly used western term coming from a transliteration through Cantonese and into the ears of Europeans to whom it sounded like "Japan".

    2. Re:odiya? They changed the name again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is such an ignorant comment....

    3. Re:odiya? They changed the name again? by jdk1 · · Score: 1

      Yeah this is the first I heard of the new name.

      From reading the article summary, I thought this guy has no clue, but after looking at the blog, it sounds like the author has some interesting ideas. Teaching these kids programming of any kind is quite ambitious, but from the blog it sounds like the author realizes this.

      I have some experience with this sort of thing in southern India, and in my experience, one challenge was typing. The people who were learning computers had done mostly outdoor work and their fingers hadn't gotten used to the fine motor skills required for typing.

      Word processing and spreadsheets is a good thing to focus on, and it's easy for students, teachers and parents to see why it's important. I did actually suggest some games, but the idea didn't go over very well. I'm not sure that approach is really a good one in India.

  53. A bigger impact by Nidi62 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is this better than literacy? Sex ed? Things which they can use? Like even English or math?

    Or is this the growing trend of "ZOMG ... teh children must use teh computers"?

    Coding? Games? Maybe your friend is missing the damned point and doing this as a vanity project?

    Everyone is so damned excited to ensure every child on the planet is being taught "teh computers", and nobody seems to be stopping to ask if that's what they need most (or at all).

    Exactly. Take the money you were going to spend on computers, and invest that into helping to pay off the loans that farmers across India have had to take to keep their farms going. You know, the loans causing thousands of farmers to commit suicide every year leaving their families further in debt. Having a computer isn't worth bearing the brunt of your dead father's insurmountable debt for the rest of your life. And for the love of God, stop skipping over the basic, ugly things like running water, access to real medical care, and reliable electricity for the "cool" things like giving a poor, malnourished school kid a barebones PC kit and teaching them how to program Minecraft in a language based on their local dialect.

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
  54. India != Africa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kids from rural India have ended up here in tony private high schools and, while they were average students in India, were the academic superstars when placed with the New York hedge fund kids.

    That said above posters' friend should certainly consider that this has been done many times and maybe asking professionals is a better idea than a /. thread.

    1. Re:India != Africa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course India != Africa. Gang rape is a lot less prevalent in Africa.

  55. What nonsense by XB-70 · · Score: 2

    Here's how: stop writing over-analytical articles like this and just give kids a computer. They will quickly teach each other how to use it.

    --
    *** Don't be dull.***
  56. Drop them like leaflets from the sky by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and call it a day.

  57. Sounds like the Moderator... by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

    ...who down-modded you is offended by rational humanism, or took your last sentence as bait.

    Too bad. It was a good post, and thanks for sharing it.

    --
    If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
  58. Re: Sounds like the Liberals... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why are Christians the only group with religious rights btw?
    Where are the Jews that would refuse to serve you a cheeseburger?

  59. Kid, meet computer. Computer, meet kid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's as if they were made for each other.

  60. K&R by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is K&R available in an Odiya edition?

  61. Teach them assembly language by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A proper education starts with the basics and computers don't assemble themselves. Now get back to work or you'll go hungry again! Aren't computers fun?

  62. 1st World Nation Says... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No! Their own country can introduce them to computer if their country seems fit to. Why is it that all the 1st world nations have to be the police of the world, teachers of the world, and now IT for the world? These countries can fix their own problems and it is not the responsibility of the world to do it for them. If India wants to play as a 1st world society, then they can fix their own societal issues like giving the rural children a computer. To answer the question is; no country outside of India should help them as they can help themselves.

  63. Its been done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This TED talk sums up well how you can teach rural children in India how to use computers and its easy: Give them a computer and walk away.

    https://www.ted.com/talks/sugata_mitra_build_a_school_in_the_cloud?language=en

  64. Re: Sounds like the Liberals... by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

    Where are the Jews that would refuse to serve you a cheeseburger?

    Well, I think you'll find them in kosher restaurants. That's not discrimination, that's just the menu. :-P

    Seriously though, to FTFY, I would not expect Jews in a kosher restaurant to refuse to serve non-Jews. And analogously for any other specialty establishment that is open to the public.

    --
    If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
  65. Why will Indian Women never get AIDS ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because they marry azzholes they don't screw them....

  66. Computers, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Power grid, do you speak it, motherfucker!?

    Seriously though, introduce them to clean water and basic sanitation practices. Then introduce them regular medical care and, maybe, electricity.

    Once you have a generation that has moved up from the 3rd world into roughly-second world, we can talk about computers.

  67. Get Wikipedia by Ken_g6 · · Score: 2

    This appears to be the Odia language Wikipedia. But I know you said there's limited Internet. So I suggest you get Kiwix with the entire Odia Wikipedia (.torrent link to a complete package for Windows), and burn it to CD-ROM. (Odia isn't a popular language, so it all fits easily.) You can also look at other language Wikipedias, both because they are more comprehensive, and because they could help the children learn those languages.

    --
    (T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
  68. My vote for least helpful Ask Slashdot ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What awesome comments here. Clearly nobody RTFA which says "with the ten computers that were received as donation" and "Now, that I had a functioning lab" and instead decided to go on rants about the merits of such a program, rather than contributing anything constructive.

    1. Re:My vote for least helpful Ask Slashdot ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, if I'm driving to a location, and I make a wrong turn, instead of re-evaluating my poor decision, I should just keep thrusting forward in the wrong direction?
      Sometimes the best solution is to stop what you're doing, and fund something the community needs.

      Idiot.

  69. Bad greenwow...go to your room by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please stop replying to your own stupid post. Everyone knows it's you and everyone knows you're a moron.

  70. Sugata Mishra's Hole in the Wall experiment by kaka.mala.vachva · · Score: 1

    Read this: http://www.edutopia.org/blog/s... A very interesting read - Sugata Mishra left a computer with internet access in a hole in the wall near a slum. Kids flocked to it, and taught themselves how to use it, even surf the internet.

  71. success criteria by petes_PoV · · Score: 1

    The kids don't know much English and speak a local language called Odiya. There aren't any technical publications/resources in Odiya. Poor internet connectivity. No computer experts on the school staff.

    Before you go anywhere near trying to find a technical solution, it is imperative you write a single sentence to say what direct, measurable, benefit will arise from this venture. Preferably a benefit to the children taking part, rather than imparting a nice warm feeling of having "helped" to the educators.

    If that turns out to be a stumper, you really need to stand back and think of a different question - one that you CAN answer, before talking about languages, OS's, games and all that technical gibberish.

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  72. Means to an End ... by swell · · Score: 1

    from TFA: "I read somewhere, Technology is tool, and not a learning outcome."
    Yes. A Means to an End.

    Define the End and then consider whether the computer is the best way to achieve it. If the End is a better crop yield, computer programming or Excel or Powerpoint would come later than the need for English language and Wikipedia (internet access). English language learning software will get the process started and doesn't require internet access.

    If the End is a lower birth rate or a lower infant mortality rate ... again English language and Wikipedia. If the End is a broad, classical education, of course English, Latin, Sanskrit and Wikipedia; but such an education would put these students far ahead of the rest of us who only do job training. If the End is to have programmers hired by Microsoft; yes, teach programming (but is this realistic?).

    Games? How can anyone suggest that vast incredible waste of time? For the mildly intelligent and creative mind every new experience in computing or in life is more rewarding than the artificial and commercial reward of killing another imaginary alien.

    --
    ...omphaloskepsis often...
  73. Computer are detrimental to mental health. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Indian has been turned into IT slave, drying out their spiritual heritage - not a goal to strive for.

    Rural India remains the cornerstone of that yogic science, imprevious to the illnesses you witness in cities, computers would contaminate them and syphon villages off their youth and slowly eliminate village and temple life.

  74. Introduce Indian Kids to Computers by PPH · · Score: 1

    On the assembly line, of course. Like China and Apple products.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:Introduce Indian Kids to Computers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Soviet Union tried this sort of thing. They would even let exceptional employees take home one part per month. One man working in a baby cradle factory made sure to great work when he and his wife were expecting to take advantage of this employee benefit. Month after month, he took home a piece so that his child would have a strong, warm, new piece of furniture to sleep in when it arrived. On the day his baby was born, the man brought home the final piece and assembled it. His baby came home to its own, fully-functional AK-47.

  75. Don't do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We have enough shitty fucking indian "developers" as it is. We certainly don't need or want any more.

  76. Know your audience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kids in rural India probably need better life care allowing them to focus on language and math skills long before we start with technology.

  77. Rural Indiana? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    I first read the headline as "How Would You Introduce Kids in Rural Indiana to Computers" and my first thought was, "Don't bother. Introduce them to a toothbrush first".

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  78. Here ya go by morgauxo · · Score: 2

    Computer: Raspberry Pi
    OS: Inferno
    Programming Language: LISP
    Editor: Emacs
    Game: Leather Godesses of Phobos

    For the more artsy kids Tex can replace LISP.

  79. Logo by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    I remember that they tried it that already in India with little Logo turtle programming decades ago, didn't it work?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

  80. Teach them Indian English instead by stinkfish · · Score: 1

    As the ever accurate Wikipedia points out: "English is the lingua franca of India and is the language of their cultural and political elites, offering significant economic and social advantage to fluent speakers" Then tech them how to use a web browser....

  81. Re:Sounds like the Liberals... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's the same logic that Republicans use to justify rape. Do you really want to go there?

  82. Start with what you have... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Once you teach a kid some basic concepts: I/O, processing, output, storage, peripheral device control, and OS interface attributes, you should teach them learn how to identify the function of an program and explore a software application's user interface.

    Windows *sigh*
        ? (You may wish to point out that the GUI is fluff in the context data processing, except that it's a powerful time saver for people who use computers for a multitude of tasks during the course of a day. Then show them the command line, navigate the directories, edit and save some text and move on...)

      - File Explorer (about time MS renamed this thing)
    - - (MS language of directories/folders, files, changing the view to suit your needs)
    - Notepad (text editing, ANSI standard)
    - - (easy to teach basic ubiquitous processing commands [open, save, save as, copy, cut, paste, etc] and universal Windows menus and keyboard shortcuts)
      - Wordpad
    - - (use it to differentiate formatting/appearance from the informational content of a file as well as the importance of file types)
    - Help Files
      - - (how to use them to learn Microsoftese and explore the capabilities of any program)
    - Preferences & Settings
    - - (Using them to learn a program through exploring the options offered by the program's designers, defaults vs options)

    * Teach them about privacy, security and surveillance.
    ** Teach them to protect themselves and their future.
    *** Remember, a little dread goes a long way.

  83. Children learn better than you think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are studies showing that children can teach themselves, even when language is a barrier:

    http://www.ted.com/talks/sugata_mitra_shows_how_kids_teach_themselves?language=en [ted.com]

  84. babies catch on before you know it by swschrad · · Score: 1

    in my wife's day care, before babies are out of diapers and into complete sentences, they are already cognizant about the basics... swipe, point, scroll, point, point, point... and OMFG it's Amazon or eBay and they are buying a used BMW!

    you are perhaps saying citizens of India are behind babies that can barely walk?

    really, all you have to do is put a tablet on the projector, run one app, and hand the things out. like all of us in 1983/4, we'll learn the rest.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
    1. Re:babies catch on before you know it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > we'll learn the rest.

      Except, apparently, what the shift key is for.

  85. first you have to start with registers, and ALUs.. by swschrad · · Score: 1

    otherwise everything is the equivalent of NOPs in function.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  86. Extend the Internet "library" to one point by mongothesecond · · Score: 1

    Per area, One internet connection in a public place, one learning video website, and instructions in their language how to record videos in their language. Do not confine them by topics. Like the developed world, one of them will be appointed "helpdesk" to make it work for everyone else.

  87. Google has an answer for you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here's the best answer. Google has a project that uses raspberry pi and it's EXACTLY for this purpose

    https://googlecreativelab.github.io/coder/

    Just need any old client computer where some old netbooks that no one wants will work perfectly. but the raspberry pi is a server with ALL THE LEARNING TOOLS BUILT IN!
    and cheap of course!

  88. Grow upon something already proven. by coryhamma · · Score: 1

    Clearly, the OLPC model is a very successful idea, with impressive results. Maybe invest in a language translation, so that they can understand what the programs do? Or a language learning software, so that they can learn a language that the computer uses?

    1. Re:Grow upon something already proven. by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      how come we don't hear about OLPC any more? Could it be the proliferation of cheap Android gear?

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    2. Re:Grow upon something already proven. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      What was technically ambitious about the OLPC computer was making it for that little money. It may have kicked off the netbook market. Nowadays, you can get a half-assed Android tablet for cheap, and even if the sound and camera are crap it can still work as a small computer.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    3. Re:Grow upon something already proven. by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      good points, though I thought the Toshiba Libretto was the kickstart for the netbook market?

      (although they're rare as rocking horse shit now - I'd still like one even though I have an Asus EeePC 1008HA Seashell which is feckin' fantastic for what it is - need a new battery now since it's five years old and in daily use)

      Our old friend Wikipedia has it that the current generation of the netbook was inspired by the Libretto and really given a kick up the arse by Asus with the 700 series; while OLPC yes, had to design to budget - which included bundled software so Microsoft were pretty much frozen out as volume licensing Windows costs a frickin' fortune, commercial netbooks had other design specifications which were basically laptop "Lite" with no such budgetary restrictions. Unit pricing an OLPC when taken in the G1G1 scheme was around US$180 while a netbook could easily hit you for US$600. My Seashell retailed at GB£399 and is still considered one of the best overall designs of an x86 based netbook ever.

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
  89. Re:Sounds like the Liberals... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What out of that justifies rape, or could be used to attempt to "justify" rape? And you say "Republicans". Which Republicans, specifically? Since you used the plural, you obviously have multiple specific examples that you can post, and I'd be interested in knowing their names.

  90. Put them to work! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Put them to work in a call center! LOL

  91. why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    kick out their bent town mayor, kick out the bent corporations from their town, buy them some clothes and shoes, plumb in some water and a flushing toilet, build them a school where they can get 1 proper meal per day, and then buy them some books. once this is done they might ask for a computer.

  92. Air Drop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A low flying C-130. Seriously, why do we give a fuck about computers for rice pickers in rural India.

  93. First get them food and water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So they don't pass out while using the computer.

  94. Hard to answer from the other side of the world... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I were you, I'd teach multipliers first (e.g. the older children), so they can help with the younger later; I've seen Odia has some 30+ million speakers. So we're not talking about a small culture without living speakers.

    Is there some program to engage graduating students (14 to 17 year-old) to help you? Sometimes schools have a "term trainee semester", when students must work to practice what they learned -- and maybe some of them could find the experience interesting.

    Are there Linux groups available -- even if in big cities, provided they speak Odia. You need to convince someone to live near if possible, at least for some time.

    I recall India has English as an official language; Odia has some very different symbols, but I guess learning Roman letters might help the children in the future, because they're used in various languages -- not just English. You can promote a simple "Instrumental English" course, too. Technical English is way easier than fully mastering the language.

    You can teach some simple language and already introduce some words at the same time, like in the game Hangman. Even just playing (like Connectagram, if you use the simplest settings) might prove useful.

  95. Easy! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kids, meet Mac.
    Mac, meet Kids.

    Go play!

  96. Teach English first by iamacat · · Score: 2

    Suppose the project was successful, how would the kids make any practical use of their skills or improve them further on their own? Learning English or another common language opens a huge window into outside world and access to knowledge in all subjects, including computers. Personally I grew up in Soviet Union and studying English rather than any less common foreign language in school opened up tremendous options later in life.

  97. By doing nothing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Today's rural Indians learning computers become tomorrow's H1Bs and "low cost country" tech workers to export jobs to. Just ask HP ;)

  98. Re:Hard to answer from the other side of the world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Another idea, or rather a sketch of an idea, is arranging cheap Android cell phones to your students.

    Is there some easy language for kids to program on Android, like BASIC or something? There are games on Google Play and it seems there are at least two versions of BASIC.

    It seems ridiculous but someone could get rich selling BASIC or so it seeM$ that I've heard...

    The good part is that cheap Android phones can be donated even by people who just upgraded to a new model. And kids could take them home to play... and you probably have the infrastructure to make them work... over here we have special subscription for economically-challenged folks (it's slow but somewhat inexpensive -- and at school everyone could use wi-fi).

    Good luck! It's a worthy enterprise!

    Captcha: Lemonade, which reminded of Lemonade Stand, a great program to teach about simulations... the BASIC source must available online...

  99. Digital by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A digital time bomb...that can only be disarmed using English commands.

  100. Easy! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Give them H1B1s.

  101. start with the essentials by ihtoit · · Score: 1

    Food growing, animal husbandry, water management and construction.

    For fuck's sake, they're kids in a third world country, not the Lost Tribe of Silicon Valley.

    --
    Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
  102. talk to Sugata Mitra by Jaegs · · Score: 1

    People have an amazing ability to teach themselves. Let them do it:

    http://www.npr.org/2013/06/21/...

  103. Atari 2600s by afaiktoit · · Score: 1

    worked for me!

  104. computer masti by inopen and iit bombay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://computermasti.in/

            - A collaborative product from IIT Bombay and InOpen
            - Used by 0.5 million students directly
            - 200+ schools
            - Available in 10 languages including foreign languages.
            - 4000+ teachers trained.
            - E-Books downloaded in more than 130 countries.

    All you have to do is collaborate and prepare a odiya translation.

  105. Kids can teach themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.ted.com/talks/sugata_mitra_shows_how_kids_teach_themselves?language=en

  106. Sugata Mitra - He did this already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I heard him speak at an ATD conference in May 2015. Google his name and include "hole in the wall". That is what he called his experiment in India. Please don't mod me out even though I'm a coward! I think people could really use this info. Thanks in advance!

  107. Re:Sounds like the Liberals... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    just ignore the DailyKos trolls

  108. Wikipedia is available in Odia by Noiser · · Score: 1

    Wikipedia is available in Odia.

    It's much smaller than the one in English, but it's there. The best part: you and your friends can improve it. It's a wiki, which means that you can improve it yourself - add as many articles as you want, as long as they are relevant to the encyclopedia, and edit the existing articles. You can even teach the children themselves to edit, thus making sure that they know that it's possible to type in Odia on computers.

    I'm super-passionate about making the editions of Wikipedia in various languages better, so please contact me if you have more questions.

  109. We do computerised training in odisha villages by Ako_rurallabs · · Score: 1

    This guy has a few clues on what can help, and he has done what your friend wants to do: http://www.ted.com/talks/sugat.... He might already have some project going on in India on which you can latch on to avoid re-inventing the wheel ...

    I do not wish to participate in the larger debate of the boon and bane of introducing computers, but rather than attempting to put yourselves in the village kids shoes, it would serve the commenters better to step out and test out their theories. I just wanted to say more specifically that I spent my last two months in a village called Guptapada near Bhubaneswar in Odisha as part of the Ammachi labs initiative to train and assist women in building their own toilets in their village and teaching skills such as masonry, cement block making, plumbing and plastering skills using a trained professional and tablet based video courses. You can find more about what Ammachi labs does here: http://ammachilabs.org/womenem... What I noticed computers/tablets brought to the scene is the increased interest and self esteem that is associated with technology. This itself was an enabler to reduce dropouts and instill confidence. Above that tablets allowed us to introduce standardised courses which otherwise would require the villagers to travel to the city and stay away from home for extended periods which those who live hand-to-mouth cannot afford to do.

    1. Re:We do computerised training in odisha villages by Ako_rurallabs · · Score: 1

      My friend Unni at Ammachi labs who recently interned with EPFL, Switzerland, came back with ideas to teach computational thinking and has been devising games that he has been using in villages in Gujarat and Uttar Pradesh to teach children. He has created an adaptation of some popular games that help teach basic programming building blocks such as the MIT Scratch. If you write to us at Ammachi labs we can explore ideas further.

    2. Re:We do computerised training in odisha villages by Ako_rurallabs · · Score: 1

      I should also mention that the toilet building course goes hand in hand with the health and sanitation awareness camps which acts as the cornerstone for most of the learning. Also to add about teaching computational thinking, that is a skill that goes beyond just computer programming and can be applied to several if not all areas of work and life in its broad adaptation. There is plenty of literature to support that idea. Like I said, get in touch with us and we are open to sharing our experiences and learning - Akshay

  110. First You Teach Them English by Toad-san · · Score: 1

    The British Empire learned this long long long ago. Read your Kipling and quit wasting our time.

  111. A lot of Gateway 2000's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The holstein cow graphics will make them respect computers.

  112. ICTD is what you need to checkout by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is an entire field of study that is dedicated to answering this question, and it's not quite as simple as many of the other commenters may believe. You cannot simply drop tech and have it change the world. Contrary to what one commenter said about the OLPC going away in favor of other Android tablets, the OLPC went away because it was a failure. It just dropped tech without a whole lot of thought. If you don't want this project to be another OLPC, look into the field of ICTD (Information and Communication Technology for Development). Starting at http://itidjournal.org would be a good first step.

  113. introducing rural kids to computers by seagrove · · Score: 1

    Wonder if you have heard the TED Talk by Sugata Mitra who did something similar with urban poor kids in India. He set up a system where kids would be engaged to fool around with the computer and basically teach themselves. http://www.ted.com/talks/sugat...