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British Movie Theater Staff To Wear Night-Vision Goggles To Combat Movie Piracy

Ewan Palmer writes: Movie theater across the UK will be required to don military-style night vision goggles in order to help crack down on movie piracy ahead of the release of potential box office smashes such as Spectre and Hunger Games. The initiative is part new measures to combat piracy as in recent years, pirates have found new and inventive ways to illegally record movies while using a smartphone to film through a popcorn box. Kieron Sharp, director general of the Federation Against Copyright Theft (FACT), said: "The bigger the film and the more anticipated it is, the higher-risk it is. We have staff on extra alert for that. James Bond is a big risk and we will be working with cinema operators and the distributors making sure we will keep that as tight as possible. We really don't want to see that recorded. They [cinema staff] are on alert to really drill down on who is in the auditorium and who might possibly be recording. They still do the sweeps around the auditoriums with the night vision glasses regardless of the film. But sometimes extra security is put in place for things like Bond."

279 comments

  1. This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    and only get my movies at the pirate bay. No hassles. No real spying. God loves AMERICA! The POPE is here!

    1. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Z00L00K · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The movies pirated at theaters are usually low quality and not very interesting to watch due to all the quality issues.

      Also consider the possibility that piracy of movies at the theaters may be performed by the employees themselves whenever that happens.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    2. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by davester666 · · Score: 1

      Same as if you watched it in the theatre...only less sticky. And you know who is fondling your arm.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    3. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same as if you watched it in the theatre...only less sticky. And you know who is fondling your arm.

      I hope this is a joke. If you seriously believe the quality you see in a movie theater is the same as the crappy quality you get from cam/telesync copies (including the ones they label HDTS), you are very much mistaken. Download the blueray rip and play it on a good home movie projector and you are closer.

    4. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Solandri · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The high quality pirated movies are shot by theater employees using a camera on a tripod in the projection room (so the screen isn't distorted from a perfect rectangle) with a direct audio feed (so you get only the movie soundtrack - no people talking or coughing).

      So basically all this will do is increase the quality of pirated movies by weeding out the poorly-shot cellphone movies, and give the theater staff some cool toys to play with while they're pirating the movie.

    5. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Feral+Nerd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The movies pirated at theaters are usually low quality and not very interesting to watch due to all the quality issues.

      Also consider the possibility that piracy of movies at the theaters may be performed by the employees themselves whenever that happens.

      I agree 100%, what kind of a miserly dork would watch a pirated movie recorded with a smartphone in a cinema. The amount of effort spent by the paranoid dickheads that seem to rule the media industry on preventing this sort of piracy is completely out of all proportion to the small amount of damage it does. It's a bit like swatting flies with a 12 gauge shotgun.

    6. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Katatsumuri · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Exactly. Watching a screen copy is a punishment in itself. Unsatisfied viewers and the resulting bad reputation is the punishment for the person making and sharing the copy. If the movie industry were smarter, they would leave the screen copy sector be, and maybe use it as bad PR for piracy. Anyone who can be satisfied with screen copy quality is definitely not a movie theater customer anyway.

    7. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Meh. I stopped going to the cinema when the price of two tickets became more than the price of the DVD (and that's before you add snacks / drinks). I bought a projector and a reasonable surround-sound system almost a decade ago (and have replaced the bulb once). A subscription to a DVD rental service now costs significantly less than two people going to the cinema once a month. I can have friends over to watch a film without paying any more (and they can bring food / booze), I can pause it if I need to go to the toilet (or turn on subtitles if someone is hard to understand). I can drink or eat whatever I want with the film. Oh, and unlike seemingly every cinema in the UK, I don't have the equaliser settings configured to completely destroy any sane audio balance that might have been present in the original.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    8. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Meanwhile, you're probably a Linux felcher who will whine whenever someone violates the GPL.

      Because that's somehow magically "different".

      Perhaps it is? There's also a difference between whether we drop bombs on ISIS or ISIS drops bombs on us.

    9. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by DigiShaman · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yeah! Because theft of other peoples labor is so hip and cool!

      Hey asshole, why don't you at least take the time to, you know, actually pay for the product/service? You could always rent the movie later. It's a really neat concept in that the actors, staff, and the industry as a whole earns a profit thus growing it. It also puts food on table and keeps a roof over their family. Don't think you will would ever pay to watch a specific movie anyways? Perhaps then you shouldn't watch it either.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    10. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're alleging burger flippers have less rights to go to the movies than anyone else? How gauche.

    11. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah so your incorrect conclusion is that this industry is in need of financial growth. Its in need of creative growth. There's absolutely no evidence that piracy has taken food out of the mouth of Timmeh the gaffers' son.

    12. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 2

      It's worse when your local cinema have such poor image quality that it is preferable to see the movie in your home with a decent setup. Seriously, how they will make people see the movie in the theater is what you get for your ticket is a mediocre image with a distorted sound and overpriced popcorn?

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    13. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Killing people is wrong, yet I feel very little sympathy when people like Saddam Hussein were killed.

      In a similar fashion I wouldn't feel much sympathy if the major movie studios and anyone who does business with them were to burn.
      Lobbying to get laws changed without a democratic discussion is not OK. Spreading malware to your paying customers is not OK and using multiple companies to move around money to screw over your employees and dodge taxes is not OK.

      Don't try to play the "Think about the families!" card with me. At this point I don't care what happens with those criminal organizations or anyone who works for them.

    14. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why even bother doing that?

      Unless there is a media change happening somewhere (is 35mm still out there?), just go for a direct digital copy. Blu-ray burners are cheap these days...

    15. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by DigiShaman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, that's your conclusion, not mine. What I said was, these people work in a capitalistic enterprising industry that's predicated on earning a profit. They work and stake their livelihoods on this paradigm. They do not have a right to earn successes anymore than you have a right to steal the fruits of their labor.

      I have no problem with you watching freely available content so long as those involved consented to its availability to you. But when someone creates a product and expect payment in return for consuming said product, to cheat the system is morally wrong.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    16. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't feel much sympathy if the major movie studios and anyone who does business with them were to burn.

      Me neither, but then again I don't watch big Hollywood movies.

      If you do, your comment makes no sense.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    17. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by jittles · · Score: 2

      The high quality pirated movies are shot by theater employees using a camera on a tripod in the projection room (so the screen isn't distorted from a perfect rectangle) with a direct audio feed (so you get only the movie soundtrack - no people talking or coughing)..

      Where did you get this silly idea from? Sure there are movie theater employees that do this but a lot of the movies you torrent are screen copies made for reviewers in the media. Some come from the special effects houses. You can find plenty that are marked as internal studio copies (doesn't cover the screen, but is in the letter boxing if you watch on a 4:3). You can even download the movies before they hit the theater in many cases. I haven't seen a pirated movie like you're talking about since Star Wars Episode I came out in 1999 or whenever it was.

    18. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      There is a major difference between CAM/TS/TC and SCREENER/WP releases that you don't seem to be aware of. Almost all popular movies have CAM releases. There are currently ~22 movies with no better release available than a CAM.

    19. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

      So you're alleging burger flippers have less rights to go to the movies than anyone else? How gauche.

      Going to the movies is now a "right?"

    20. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I solved this problem by simply not watching movies anymore. They are formulaic (but perhaps you all are too young to have felt the formulas being played out over and over again, so it's all new to you). Too superficial these days. Old b/w movies are far better in terms of plot substance.

      If we all quit watching the crap Hollywood (et al) put out, then their value would drop, Hollywood would be the only ones hurt, and nobody would care. We're addicted to entertainment, sadly.

    21. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Won't you think of the poor starving actors!?

    22. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 1

      We have staff on extra alert for that. James Bond is a big risk and we will be working with cinema operators and the distributors making sure we will keep that as tight as possible.

      If SMERSH and SPECTRE couldn't deal with Bond, how are these bozos going to accomplish anything?

    23. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by crunchy_one · · Score: 1

      The thing that drove me out of the commercial theaters many years ago was their insistence that I sit through ad after ad before the film. Fuck that.

    24. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is probably pointless, but why the fuck not.

      They do not have a right to earn successes anymore than you have a right to steal the fruits of their labor.

      Who said I was going to see or even rent the damned movie in the first place?

      Some examples.

      1: Seventh Son. Ok, decent trailer, probably won't be as good as 80s fantasy, bad reviews, no theater visit for me. A year later I get bored, torrent it, and promptly delete the torrent and movie after getting about 20 minutes in. Boy am I glad I didn't fork over a damned cent.
      2. Jupiter Ascending. Ok, decent trailer, probably won't be as good as The Matrix, hopefully not as overdone as Cloud Atlas, bad reviews, no theater visit for me. A year later I get bored, torrent it, watch it with some friends, let the torrent seed to a ratio of 2 to be a nice guy, and delete it.
      3. The BBC's The Silver Chair (Narnia). Whee, Tom Baker! Very meh, but also very rare. I decided to do my part to preserve history and added it to my list of perpetually seeded torrents alongside others such as Carl Sagan's Cosmos, Roots, 1st-3rd Doctor stuff (some reconstructed from stills), and many fan-produced Star Trek shows.
      4. Wizards. Again, fairly rare, but oh my god. I would have never paid to see that in the theater or rent it, but it turned out to be brilliant. Call me up when the local theater wants to screen that on the one night they dedicate one of the screens to older movies, and we'll go pay to see it.
      5. Interstellar. I saw it in IMAX and WOW! Not only do they get my money once, not only twice, but they also get the money of two other friends I took along to see it the 2nd time.
      6. Terminator Genisys. I grabbed both seasons of the Sarah Connor Chronicles (why oh why did they cancel it on a cliffhanger?!), and when a shitty camrip was available, I grabbed it because I really wanted to know if this was going to be Terminator 3 all over again or if it had anything to do with the continuity of SCC. Nope! Have a few more timelines! Not a damned cent from me. If somebody wants to make an actual sequel to SCC or Terminator 2, call me up and we'll go see it in the theater.

    25. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, I should have also added.

      7. Star Trek Beyond. Ok, Star Trek the Reboot was an ok action movie in space. Nothing wrong with that. I kinda like it. Then OHMYFUCKINGGODwhathappenedwith Star Trek into Darkness? Why do you hate one of my favorite movies of all time so much?!?!?! So, if my choices are merely see it in the theater or rent it, you have me stuck with rent it. On the other hand, I have more options. Will Simon Pegg make a decent Star Trek movie? Well, I'll be grabbing a shitty camrip to find out. If Simon Pegg can rescue the franchise from JJ fuck up, sure, I'll go see it in the theater. The producers of good movies make money just fine, and thanks to camrips, there is actually a chance I might see Star Trek Beyond in the theater.

      End of line.

    26. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Cederic · · Score: 1

      I watch big hollywood movies and low budget foreign independent cinema.

      If hollywood sinks into a supervolcano and the rest of hte planet survives, good films will continue to be made. Hopefully some of the dross wont.

    27. Re: This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have the right to make use of the amenities in your local area, as long as you can afford them and haven't been banned for previous bad behaviour, yes. Or put another way, no-one has the right to tell you you can't have nice things just because they think your job is somehow inferior.

    28. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Same as if you watched it in the theatre...only less sticky. And you know who is fondling your arm.

      I hope this is a joke. If you seriously believe the quality you see in a movie theater is the same as the crappy quality you get from cam/telesync copies (including the ones they label HDTS), you are very much mistaken.

      I think he's referring to other people talking on their phones, walking in front of the screen, etc. The recorded experience is very similar.

      --
      No sig today...
    29. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      I agree 100%, what kind of a miserly dork would watch a pirated movie recorded with a smartphone in a cinema.

      And what total idiot believes that those miserly dorks would have gone out and paid to see it if only it wasn't available on torrent sites?

      --
      No sig today...
    30. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Meh. I stopped going to the cinema when the price of two tickets became more than the price of the DVD (and that's before you add snacks / drinks). I bought a projector and a reasonable surround-sound system almost a decade ago (and have replaced the bulb once). A subscription to a DVD rental service now costs significantly less than two people going to the cinema once a month.in the original.

      Have you heard of those new high definition discs they have now? Blow-rays or something like that.

      Man...are you going to freak out when you see one.

      --
      No sig today...
    31. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I painted a picture in my front yard and posted it on a sign. I demand $5 from every person who looks at it, since I expect a payment in return for consuming the artistic value. If they refuse to pay, I have them arrested.

      someone said at one point that it is in a public area, but that was clearly a lie. It is on my private property. If they don't want to pay, they should not look, like civilized people. It is, after all, the morally correct thing to do.

    32. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another one of these. I got it:

      If I take your car, I deprive you of your property and thereby deny you its use. This is theft.
      If I make an exact copy of your car, and drive off in said copy, you have been deprived of nothing. This is not theft.
      Just because I can easily make an exact copy of your car and drive off in it, does not mean I would be willing to buy one.

      Welcome to the concept of post-scarcity. (Yes, I know our economy is not ready for it yet.)

    33. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by CreamyG31337 · · Score: 2

      It's called a telesync, or TS
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      I just checked and there's plenty of TS releases in the last week.

    34. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Media is not consumed - consumption implies that it's "used up" and cannot be used again. Media is NOT equivalent to physical goods!

      What is being "licensed" and not sold really is the right to see it - but where is that line drawn - do people in the name of said rights have the right to monitor everything I do and watch so they can sure they get paid everytime a movie crosses my eyeballs?

      I think the notion that someone profits from every "use" of a media product for practically an eternity is absurd. If you create a work once, the really fair thing is for you to get paid once - what is so moral about getting paid for doing nothing just because people are seeing such a work?

    35. Re: This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is a false equivalency.
      If you make a copy of my car, you are not depriving me (the consumer) anything. You are depriving the manufacturer.

      If I designed a car, and you copied my design, I would be deprived.

      Designing a car takes time, effort, and money (let's call that y). Building the car takes materials that cost money (let's call that x).
      To break even, I have to sell each car for x + some portion of y.

      If you copy my design, you didn't spend nearly as much on y, so you can sell my cars for cheaper than I can, and thus put me out of business.

      The unquestionably deprives me of something. And that's why copyright laws were invented: to allow me time to recoup my initial investment in design.

    36. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like you can see when people are coming to check if you're pirating movies. Even better would be an automated film scanner to do high res scans of the actual reel, or just direct decoding of the movie in case of digital formats.

    37. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Copyright is broken. Until such time as it is fixed, I dont feel bad for folks that try to use it to make a living. What i hate about this is people only ever mention the poor artists, what about The People who are OWED for granting limited copyright monopolies? The ENTIRE purpose of copyright is to enrich the Public Domain, NOT creators. Until such time as copyright begins to enrich the Public Domain again, i will never respect it.

      --
      Good-bye
    38. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't. Stopped watching movies a long time ago.

    39. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Archangel_Azazel · · Score: 1

      No, that's your conclusion, not mine. What I said was, these people work in a capitalistic enterprising industry that's predicated on earning a profit. They work and stake their livelihoods on this paradigm. They do not have a right to earn successes anymore than you have a right to steal the fruits of their labor.

      I have no problem with you watching freely available content so long as those involved consented to its availability to you. But when someone creates a product and expect payment in return for consuming said product, to cheat the system is morally wrong.

      Sorry, but I'm pretty sick of seeing the same move for the fourth time. Yay! Different actors....different scenery...different movie title. Same boring, tired, cliche plot that you could practically sneeze through. Who the hell wants to pay to see a reboot of a reboot of a reboot of a... you get the point. These idiots are crying because nobody wants to watch their shitty movies anymore.
      My heart bleeds crunchy peanut butter for them....and I shed one small tear for the waste of time.

      --
      Your mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's been opened.
    40. Re: This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What size gauges do you have, how big is your beard, and most importantly, is your mustache properly waxed?

    41. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      Copyright don't exist In a Capitalistic system. if ThePirateBay provides a better product than you do, then that is your problem, not theirs.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    42. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's okay if you feel the movies are repetitive but the point is about watching movies that other people have for sale by piracy. If you've prejudged that the movie is repetitive, it's moral to avoid watching the movie rather than pirating it and complaining about the production.

    43. Re: This is why I don't go to movie theatres by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

      LOL - where do we stop with that line of thinking?

    44. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by djnforce9 · · Score: 1

      The movie industry is frightened of their own shadow. CAM piracy is so uncommon and the quality poor that it isn't worth investing in the equipment to stop it. They probably haven't even caught enough pirates to break even yet. Not to mention that it degrades the experience for all customers and leads to awful misunderstandings.

      Glad none of the theatres around where I live do this.

    45. Re:This is why I don't go to movie theatres by doccus · · Score: 1

      ...what you get for your ticket is a mediocre image with a distorted sound and overpriced popcorn?

      But ..but.. that's part of the whole experience

    46. Re: This is why I don't go to movie theatres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not a false equivalency at all.

      What is making a copy depriving the manufacturer of? You cannot claim "lost sale" because that simply isn't true. People will gladly take something that's free (take a 12 pack to a party and say free beer. It'll disappear) and will not necessarily take something that isn't (try to sell the 12 pack one beer at a time. You'll probably succeed, but it'll go way slower because you'll get a lot of "meh, no thanks".)

      If I copy your design of a car, what are you deprived of? You are again assuming that 1 copy = 1 lost sale. This is a true false equivalence, especially since pirates rarely sell what they copy since that's obviously very illegal and will get them in a lot of trouble.

      Also, you're getting a bit confused between the concepts of copyright and patent.

      Finally - note I never said copying wasn't illegal. I said it is not the same as stealing, despite the *AA attempts to brand it as such.

  2. Or... let there be light! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ... the pirate's cameras often rely on infrared light. Several bright "invisible to the human eye" infrared lights pointed at the audience from behind the screen or even around it ought to do the trick. Just trying to cast light on the topic.

    1. Re: Or... let there be light! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      By 'rely on' I assume you actually mean 'are also slightly sensitive to'? I can't think of how any cell phone camera relies on NIR, but yes, the IR-cut filters are generally not very tight.

    2. Re:Or... let there be light! by AK+Marc · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That was my fault as well, but I was thinking they should pulse them, with a frequency close to the response time of the cameras (if they are close enough to do something like this), so the camera fades in and out, like a copy of a Macrovision VHS.0

    3. Re: Or... let there be light! by AK+Marc · · Score: 1, Informative

      By "rely on" he could mean "rely on". Most cameras have a night-vision or low-light capability that relies on non-visible spectrum. Since the camera relies on IR/UV, then one could say it "relies on" it.

    4. Re:Or... let there be light! by GigaplexNZ · · Score: 1

      I came to say exactly the same thing, but this AC beat me. One potential risk though is that the pirates could potentially use filters to block the IR portion of the spectrum. At least it would hinder the casual pirates.

    5. Re: Or... let there be light! by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

      So you are saying that the cameras don't work in the absence of infrared light?

    6. Re: Or... let there be light! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is possible, as no camera was ever tested in the absence of IR light.

    7. Re:Or... let there be light! by dwywit · · Score: 1

      IR spectrum is not good for your eyes. Not as bad as UV, but still in the "not recommended" category - and especially as your pupils will be more open than when outside in daylight. If a cinema was caught doing this, there'll be a moron and his/her lawyer somewhere willing to sue. If they win, then bye-bye to IR lights behind screens.

      --
      They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
    8. Re: Or... let there be light! by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      The camera doesn't have a "poor" IR filter, it deliberately looks into the IR spectrum because that's required for some operations. Because that's required, it's "required" that the camera see in IR.

      Rather than having filters and processing, they let it all in, and visible light dominates when it's available, but when it's not, the IR receptors dominate. They work in the absence of IR and the absence of visible light. But both are required for all features.

    9. Re:Or... let there be light! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The best way to reduce piracy is actually to run banks of infrared light pointing at the audience so that cameras think the room is lit up like daylight and cause the picture to be very dark. This is a relatively cheap solution that is harmless and the IR actually makes nightvision work better.

      Now as to the OP itself. Unless the MPAA is providing such equipment free of charge to the theaters, I'd expect push back on this.

      I've seen people in the theater recording films with their smartphone, and the theater staff do nothing. The way you do this is by making sure that theater tickets assign seats, and have a "snich" app that reports the film, showing and seat of the pirate. eg "2 rows ahead and 4 seats to the right (of me|row)" and thus allow the theater manager to call law enforcement if needed.

    10. Re:Or... let there be light! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's incorrect. Concentrated IR (eg a laser) will heat the internals of the eye, just like a visible laser. There would be hell to pay for everyone with an IR remote control and the Nintendo Wii/WiiU sensor bar. Non-concentrated IR is no more harmful than visible light. The ways to mess with the IR sensitivity in a camera is to make the IR light alternate between strobeing and solid from a LED bank in the ceiling pointed towards the seats at a 30 to 45 degree angle so it ruins the recording and can't just be compensated with a filter or software setting.

    11. Re: Or... let there be light! by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But it's not "required" that there be any IR light for the camera to work. Just like how cameras don't "require" fireworks or "rely on" fireworks even though some features only work on fireworks.

    12. Re:Or... let there be light! by GigaplexNZ · · Score: 3, Insightful
      So you're suggesting that since the MPAA isn't funding the IR LED banks, the theatres need expensive night vision goggles instead?

      I've seen people in the theater recording films with their smartphone, and the theater staff do nothing. The way you do this is by making sure that theater tickets assign seats, and have a "snich" app that reports the film, showing and seat of the pirate. eg "2 rows ahead and 4 seats to the right (of me|row)" and thus allow the theater manager to call law enforcement if needed.

      And how can you be sure they're actually filming it rather than just obnoxiously holding up their phone (using IM or something) without using the camera?

    13. Re: Or... let there be light! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      True, but pointing that out is completely useless for recording movies from a theater. The movie projectors aren't projecting the movie in IR, so completely blocking IR to your camera won't degrade recording the theater movie. As a bonus it'll hide your camera from the night vision goggles.

      Pirates who watch cams aren't going to care about some bright spots, cams are already pretty bad. Where are the studies showing piracy reduces movie income? I've only seen the ones where it increase income. I don't want to be distracted by people wearing glowing goggles walking around the theater. And how long will it be until some crazy nut thinks an employee is about to cause another theater shooting? Well, this is for the UK so probably not, but I'm sure it'll happen in USA.

    14. Re:Or... let there be light! by Oliver+Wendell+Jones · · Score: 1

      It wouldn't need to shine directly into the eyes of the audience - a lower power IR laser with a rotating diffraction grating could be projected onto the screen - invisible to the naked eye, very low risk of eye damage and would wreak havoc on most digital video recording devices...

      --
      A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing -- Emo Phillips
    15. Re:Or... let there be light! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The best way to reduce this kind of piracy is to not bother with it, because any measures you enact will cost FAR more than any mostly imaginary increase in paid movie-watching that may or may not be effectuated in the end.

      Someone who feels a cam-version is "good enough" were not - ever - going to pay full price for a cinema viewing or other distribution type in the first place.

      As always, the only people truly inconvenienced by the anti-piracy measures are the *actual* *paying* customers, the very people you do NOT want to bother.

      Idiots.

    16. Re: Or... let there be light! by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      That why I initially thought of the spots, like the OP, but then thought that a pulsing action at a ~1s period would probably make for a worse viewing experience, with the picture fading in and out as the automatic brightness controls in the camera tried to adjust.

      And then, they could pulse them in a manner that would indicate the theater and showtime, so any screeners would fully identify the recorded time and place.

    17. Re: Or... let there be light! by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      But it's not "required" that there be any IR light for the camera to work

      You are deliberately being obtuse. Yes, it's 100% required that cameras accept IR and record it. If not, then they won't work. Period. Though by "work" you mean won't do one specific thing, and by "work" I mean do everything listed in the manual. If it doesn't do what the manual says it will, then it's broken. If you bought a car with no rear door handles, would you take it back as defective? After all, you don't need them to get in the drivers seat and drive away, so the dealer should tell you to fuck off, as the car works fine. (just not all the items in the manual, and you indicate that's irrelevant to the definition of "work".

    18. Re: Or... let there be light! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You are deliberately being obtuse.

      You're so acute when you're angry.

    19. Re: Or... let there be light! by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      You are deliberately being obtuse. Yes, it's 100% required that cameras accept IR and record it. If not, then they won't work. Period.

      The more expensive and better quality the camera the less IR is normally let through. Don't confuse looking into the IR spectrum and recording the IR spectrum. They are not done by the same sensor.

    20. Re:Or... let there be light! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And how can you be sure they're actually filming it rather than just obnoxiously holding up their phone (using IM or something) without using the camera?

      There's simple procedure to give appropriate punishment. Ask them what they're doing: if they're filming on their phone, remove them from the theater and call police. If they're just using their smartphone casually during the movie, summarily execute them.

    21. Re:Or... let there be light! by Nrrqshrr · · Score: 1

      And that's another reason why you shouldn't go to theaters anymore. People laughing at a funny movie? That's cool. But now you have to put up with the thought police who didn't like the way you hold your popcorn and now want to question you. Probably interrupting a key moment in the movie for you and anyone else around you.

    22. Re: Or... let there be light! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mobile device lens filter out IR because it interferes with the CCDs and required substantial filter processing. Jeez, just look at the spec, eh?

    23. Re: Or... let there be light! by wbo · · Score: 1

      The more expensive and better quality the camera the less IR is normally let through. Don't confuse looking into the IR spectrum and recording the IR spectrum. They are not done by the same sensor.

      Actually IR recordings are typically done with the same image sensor as visible light recordings. What high-quality cameras do is have an IR filter in front of the image sensor that is automatically moved out of the imaging path when the camera is switched into a low-light or nightvision mode (In many cameras this results in an barely audible click when switching modes as the filter is moved).

      Such cameras also typically have a collection of ND filters as well that can be switched in and out as needed for filming in very bright light to avoid having to use ridiculously high shutter speeds with a sensitive image sensor.

    24. Re: Or... let there be light! by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      If you're shooting a movie in low-light mode then you're doing it wrong. A theater is a very bright place, and on the topic of discussion my point is the same. A pirate's camera does not require IR light to record. I may require IR for a lot of things, such as some cameras focus via a separate sensor and a bright burst of IR could flood the sensor, not an issue just manually focus.

      Nothing about bright IR would stop the determined pirate or anyone filming with a camera where the user has read the manual.

    25. Re: Or... let there be light! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You are deliberately being obtuse. Yes, it's 100% required that cameras accept IR and record it. If not, then they won't work."

      Then why do many cameras have IR filters on the lens to filter out IR? They seem to work just fine without accepting or recording IR...

    26. Re:Or... let there be light! by RavenLrD20k · · Score: 1

      Now as to the OP itself. Unless the MPAA is providing such equipment free of charge to the theaters, I'd expect push back on this

      So you're suggesting that since the MPAA isn't funding the IR LED banks, the theatres need expensive night vision goggles instead?

      Funny you're modded Insightful for a blatant lack of reading comprehension. Considering that the AC's trying to get back to the OP(Opening Post - in this context, the summary) which is talking about the expensive night vision goggles and not IR lights, AC is suggesting that if the MPAA wants the night vision goggles for minimum wage ushers to be playing police, they need to be paying the expense for the night vision equipment. I'll add to that and they should probably be paying for the raises to actually bring the usher's level of pay to the point that they'd actually give a shit about enforcing anti-piracy rules. Why the hell should frontlines employees give a shit about enforcing some Fat-Cat's rules if they won't make any extra money off of it? Minimum Pay? Shouldn't expect better than minimum work, then.

    27. Re: Or... let there be light! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was FACT, not MPAA, that initiated this and it's limited to the UK. I also saw nothing in the summary or article that specified the theatres had to foot the bill for the goggles, and since FACT claimed to be working closely with the theatres rather than just making demands, there's a good chance that they would supply the goggles.

    28. Re: Or... let there be light! by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

      Autofocus.

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
    29. Re: Or... let there be light! by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

      Yes, it's 100% required that cameras accept IR and record it. If not, then they won't work.

      Absolutely false

      Though by "work" you mean won't do one specific thing, and by "work" I mean do everything listed in the manual.

      My point is that when you say shit like "By "rely on" I mean "rely on"" (implying that there is only one thing it could mean), you are not only being a pretentious asshole. Not only that but you are also just wrong.

      Though by "work" you mean won't do one specific thing, and by "work" I mean do everything listed in the manual. If it doesn't do what the manual says it will, then it's broken.

      And without IR light, the camera will still do what it is supposed to do in the absence of IR light, even if that's not what you want. Just like how taking pictures of flowers in "fireworks mode" may not do what you want, but it is still doing what it is supposed to do.

      In sumamry:
      1. You're an asshole
      2. You're wrong

    30. Re:Or... let there be light! by plover · · Score: 1

      You're right in that removing a single guy with a camera (even removing one per screen per showing) isn't worth the expense of the goggles. This is obviously just a ploy to exploit the deterrent effect. Use night vision goggles, bust a dozen people recording the movies on their cell phones, and fine them a crazy amount like a million pounds each. Spread the news of the arrests, and of the insane penalties. Every few days when the public needs reminding, publicise another bust.

      It doesn't even matter if the fines are later overturned by a judge, and reduced dramatically. The hope is that this makes many fathers say to their sons "put that phone away you stupid git; we can't afford a million pound fine!"

      --
      John
    31. Re:Or... let there be light! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly what I was thinking. Why don't they just shine either bright IR lights into the audience, or at the screen and attempt to either block the visibility of the cameras or wash out the visibility of the screen? Seems like that would be far more cost effective than attempting to spot the cameras.

  3. how much lost really? by gmack · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If someone is so cheap that they will watch something recorded from a cell phone I'm guessing they will never be paying customers no matter what happens.

    1. Re:how much lost really? by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is why this phenomenon has never interested me. I mean really? A bad shaky out of focus version of a movie that I will be able to see on NetFlix in less than 6 months? Sure...

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    2. Re:how much lost really? by youngone · · Score: 2

      Exactly. This proves that the idiots at FACT don't even understand the piracy they claim they're fighting. No-one watches stupid phone camera copies of pirated movies.

    3. Re:how much lost really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Some NetFlix sites never get recent stuff - try to find Star Trek TNG on NetFlix Germany.

    4. Re:how much lost really? by gl4ss · · Score: 4, Interesting

      it's a ploy to sell night vision goggles from a specific provider.

      they found a stupid enough exec and bribed the idea to him: *boom* money.

      the exec had to be stupid enough to not know actually how the bootlegs people download were recorded.

      hint: not in the UK and if there's a direct audio feed then it's prooobably not a regular movie goer..

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    5. Re:how much lost really? by Shadow99_1 · · Score: 2

      What I think is a better question is why they think anyone is doing this in the UK... Most cam copies I see are either from Slavic states near Russia or from somewhere in Asia. Most western world copies of movies tend to be screeners and other video sources and are in fact rare since companies started watermarking them. The only good use of a cam copy is pretty much deciding if the movie may be worth the hassle of a real theatre to go so or wait for a release copy.

      --
      we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
    6. Re:how much lost really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Netflix dvd rental is still useful for some things.

    7. Re:how much lost really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It has to be something like this. The vast majority of releases prior the disc and web rips are from TS devices in the projector room. I.e. the theatre's own staff are doing it on the review equipment.

    8. Re:how much lost really? by jez9999 · · Score: 3, Funny

      What did you expect? FACT were the retards who produced this (it's not a spoof; it's on some of my DVDs). Not exactly the brightest lightbulbs.

    9. Re:how much lost really? by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      well the movie theatre owners wife & kids watch that stuff. he thinks he is so smart you see.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    10. Re:how much lost really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how long until we have an app that combines 4 of these versions into a copy higher quality than 4k res screens can display.

    11. Re:how much lost really? by antdude · · Score: 1

      Six months is too long to wait for some people. :P

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    12. Re:how much lost really? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      it's a ploy to sell night vision goggles from a specific provider.

      I disagree.

      It's yet another instance where the copyright cartel has made government and private industry responsible for policing copyright.

      So basically huge multinational corporations have everyone else doing their bidding and wasting their time and resources to ensure the profits for those huge multinational corporations.

      If those corporations want their copyright policed, they should be paying for it. This is just another example of how we've jumped the shark and are increasingly living in a world which has been coopted by large corporations.

      If they want this, let them pay for their own staff to be standing around wearing night vision goggles.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    13. Re:how much lost really? by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 2

      Of course they watch poor quality video. Not everyone has the time or money to catch the movie when it came out in the theatres, or when it's not released in their country yet, and many less wealthy fans of a franchise will grab and watch poor quality video because it's immediately available.

      There are even plenty of $5 DVD vendors, in chap Asian markets, who will sell them burned to DVD from carts or backbacks. It's a very real market: visit some poor neighborhoods some day to see the sales.

    14. Re:how much lost really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I recently came across a few of these. The quality was slightly worse than VHS. But at least watchable. The guy who loaned me the self made DVDs thought he had just came across something super cool. I just shook my head and then watched them :)

      Of the 4 he loaned me I am going to buy 3. The last one well I think he wasted his money on the DVD blank.

  4. Really necessary? by exomondo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I can't imagine that many people will eschew going to the movies for a smartphone camera recording. Maybe for screeners and Telecine rips but cam versions? Really?

    1. Re:Really necessary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm thinking that they are doing this as a ploy to try to get fun toys while getting subsidized by the MPAA equivalent. This isn't going to help anyone, as they could just go to another theatre if this is known to happen at their normal one. A smaller theatre likely is not going to do this, or care about doing this. Smaller lines, but less likely to have an ICEE machine that works.

    2. Re:Really necessary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah yes, but your dodgy copy is someone else's arthouse remix masterpiece!
      (but yeah, I thought the same thing. Then again sometimes I think it would be more pleasant to watch a bad copy than deal with idjits talking, texting and generally being ignorant apes in a cinema)

    3. Re:Really necessary? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      I'm thinking that they are doing this as a ploy to try to get fun toys while getting subsidized by the MPAA equivalent. This isn't going to help anyone, as they could just go to another theatre if this is known to happen at their normal one. A smaller theatre likely is not going to do this, or care about doing this. Smaller lines, but less likely to have an ICEE machine that works.

      Yeah, this. A good set of night vision glasses is $5000 or so. Even cheap ones are well over a grand. I can just see the minimum wage usher walking out of the theatre, never to be seen again (so to speak).

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    4. Re:Really necessary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean Joe spotty teen cinema worker isn't going to give a flying crap if someone is filming in the cinema when there's a darkened room of hot ladies to be spied upon with night vision? Crikey, I'll be darned!

    5. Re:Really necessary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they're using them to look for IR emitted by the camera's autofocus sensor, they just need first generation night vision, which are very cheap.

    6. Re:Really necessary? by plover · · Score: 1

      I can't imagine that many people will eschew going to the movies for a smartphone camera recording. Maybe for screeners and Telecine rips but cam versions? Really?

      That's because you are ignoring those who live below the poverty line. You're thinking of wealthy people who can afford to buy their own food; people who could afford to see the movie in the theaters. For them, $5 invested in a cam-ripped DVD will serve as the night's entertainment for quite a few people, and it will likely serve as a babysitter for a couple of weeks. Or it might be part of a social mask, hiding their finances from others so they can go to work the next day and say "yeah, I saw the new movie last night, let's talk about it at lunch. What, did you think I'm so poor I can't afford to go to the movies?"

      Really.

      --
      John
    7. Re:Really necessary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would anyone be using auto-focus? Are the pirates walking up and down the isles doing tracking shots? If so, I can think of a much easier way to spot them than night-vision goggles. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned auto-iris as well. Auto features are not only useless for a locked-down static shot, they are counter-productive. Anyone with half a brain would disable those features.

    8. Re:Really necessary? by exomondo · · Score: 0

      That's because you are ignoring those who live below the poverty line.

      No I'm not, I said "I can't imagine that many people will eschew going to the movies for a smartphone camera recording". Those living below the poverty line generally aren't going to the movies so it's not like the movie studios are missing out on anything with these cam versions.

  5. What is the incentive to the uploaded? by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

    I understand the incentive to watch a movie online but what is the incentive for someone to risk prison time to illegally record a movie
    and upload it to pirate bay? What is the uploader getting out of it? Back in the BBS there was a barter system where you could get
    credit by uploading something wanted that didn't exist yet but what incentive is there today?

    1. Re:What is the incentive to the uploaded? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The big file storage sites that provide extra-slow downloads unless you pay for a membership pay uploaders for the traffic they generate. You know, the ones used to trade pirate porn.

    2. Re:What is the incentive to the uploaded? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are private trackers, where that incentive still exists. But I don't think people on private trackers are interested in smartphone recorded movies.

    3. Re:What is the incentive to the uploaded? by timrod · · Score: 2

      I think in the case of cam-rips, they're usually not uploaded at all. Private trackers won't take them, and no one is going to download them on public trackers unless they're desperate. Most cam-rips, from what I understand anyway, get burned to disc and sold on the street rather than put online.

    4. Re:What is the incentive to the uploaded? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I suppose most of this pirate porn is made around September 19th?

    5. Re:What is the incentive to the uploaded? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The only day when you're allowed to have an arrgasm

    6. Re:What is the incentive to the uploaded? by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 4, Informative

      I understand the incentive to watch a movie online but what is the incentive for someone to risk prison time to illegally record a movie and upload it to pirate bay? What is the uploader getting out of it? Back in the BBS there was a barter system where you could get credit by uploading something wanted that didn't exist yet but what incentive is there today?

      Altruism?

      Why do people volunteer to do anything? Maybe it's because they get some kind of satisfaction by helping people. Maybe they like the prestige of being a notable pirate. Maybe they think the media industry is evil, and they feel like they are making the world a better place by denying profits to them.

      I suppose it doesn't make sense if you think the only compelling reason to do something is for personal monetary gain.

      But there are lots of other motivations people can have other than money.

    7. Re:What is the incentive to the uploaded? by adolf · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There seems to be a certain measure of pride amongst some folks in having the latest movies. I know people who boast about having terabytes of new movies on their hard drive, all cams.

      Myself, I find them to be unwatchable garbage -- if I wanted to see a new movie that badly, I'd go to the theater and see it. But to them, their collection of grainy cams with bad audio is a treasure.

    8. Re:What is the incentive to the uploaded? by Harlequin80 · · Score: 1

      Yeah I don't get that. Why get a cam when the BR rip or HDweb rip won't be that far behind it. Chances are there will be a pretty high quality copy with korean hard subs in it within a month of theatre release even for the top grossing films.

    9. Re:What is the incentive to the uploaded? by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 1

      Whether they pirate movies, music or software, pirates seem to be mostly driven by moral considerations. They also tend to have a strong moral code of conduct - don't attribute other group's releases to yourself, always provide the necessary cracks, add an "if you like it, buy it" clause, and so on.

    10. Re:What is the incentive to the uploaded? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Whether they pirate movies, music or software, pirates seem to be mostly driven by moral considerations. They also tend to have a strong moral code of conduct - don't attribute other group's releases to yourself, always provide the necessary cracks, add an "if you like it, buy it" clause, and so on.

      User name gives you away, Jim laaad.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    11. Re:What is the incentive to the uploaded? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't that make you an accessory to theft of the billions of dollars being stolen from the industry?

    12. Re:What is the incentive to the uploaded? by adolf · · Score: 1

      Because they're cheap. Because they're genuine thieves, with no love for the arts. Because these are the same people who show up at your house, smoke all of your dope and drink all of your drink, and still expect you to fix their watch/car/computer for free the next day, even though they ate all of the leftovers out of the fridge while you were asleep AND put the empty jar of hamburger dill chips back in the fridge as if nobody would notice. (I wish I could make this stuff up, but I'm really not creative enough.)

      I've got an expansive collection of DVDs and Blu-Rays. Sometimes I pirate something, but only a proper HQ rip. Sometimes I pirate something, and then buy a copy on disc because the film was just That Good. (And I hate HC Korean subs, so that's straight out.)

      Many of my films were bought on a whim: I'm walking through the store, and I see a film I wanted to catch, and *plonk* it goes into the cart.

      Many of the films I pirate are unavailable on DVD or BR or even mail-order Netflix, because of age or unpopularity or asshatery.

      But again, if the film is very new and I want to see it, I'll pay the $9/head or whatever it is, buy the popcorn, smuggle in some sodas (sometimes "adult" sodas), risk bed bugs, and enjoy the show on a screen which is far more encompassing than I can afford, and with a sound system that -might- be a little bit lesser than my own.

      Movies are fun, but if nobody ever spends a dime on them, they'll either be subsidized completely by product placements or die. And I, an honest thief, don't want to see either of those things happen.

      I'm also not going to consume all of your inebriates and leave a lonely jar of pickle juice in your fridge, either.

      But some people do. The mind boggles.

  6. So by penguinoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Pirates will just switch from crappy low-res idiot-talking-on-the-phone theater recordings to high-quality pre-release torrents.

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    1. Re:So by advocate_one · · Score: 1

      and only have to wait a few more days if at all...

      --
      Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
  7. Why? by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 1

    Everyone knows that CAMs are shit, those who do not normally see in a theater will wait for the bluray version or the HDRip...

    --
    Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    1. Re:Why? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Some like to watch the cams to see if the movie is worth watching in the first place. Is the story and acting good? Or is it a worthless movie with lots of pretty pretty advertisements.

    2. Re: Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Or is it a worthless movie with lots of pretty pretty advertisements." -- yes, it is.

    3. Re:Why? by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      I've been in workplaces where some recent movie is the chatting subject at the water color or the cafeteria, If everybody is talking about the flick, and your budget is tight or you lack the transportation and time to catch the movie in the theatres, you can feel left out and be happy to catch a pirated copy.

      Believe me, when you have kids or expensive pastimes like family with medical expenses, movies in cinemas are a real luxury.

  8. Meanwhile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the price of each movie ticket goes up to fund the payment of the extra staff's wages...

    1. Re:Meanwhile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because unions.

  9. How about.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    How about keeping the movies goers out of the theatre, that will stop the piracy.

    Or yet...
    DONT make the actual film (expensive messy business and all that)
    Make a few "clips" and based on their popularity estimate the number of tickets sold.
    Deny anyone going to the movies (they must all be pirates after all, so its only reasonable)
    If you use Investor State clauses you could sue the government for expected losses based on the estimate of tickets that might have been sold.

    BOOM... profits through the roof, which when put into contact with Hollywood accountants turns into a loss so you can screw the tax payers again.

    No movie = zero piracy..... war has been won.

  10. Make Blu Rays available from release day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about instead of building up a back catalogue of expensive "theft prevention" hardware and software, just make the movie available on DVD/Blu Ray straight away on release night?

    Movies are an experience, but some people don't give a rats about the movie-going experience and just want to watch at home/on the train/whatever.

    The best part about this is that noone will bother trying to record shit in a movie theater.

    1. Re:Make Blu Rays available from release day by youngatheart · · Score: 1

      I'd rather watch most movies at home than in the theater. If there were copies available for purchase at the same time the movie came out in the theater, there is zero chance people would refrain from making and distributing free copies. It would be very tempting to just download a free copy rather than pay for the official copy or see it in a theater.

    2. Re:Make Blu Rays available from release day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DVDs? Bluray? What decade are you living in that you think physical media is a solution to anything?

    3. Re:Make Blu Rays available from release day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      one that enjoys lossless audio and the lowest video compression available to them?

    4. Re:Make Blu Rays available from release day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DVDs? Bluray? What decade are you living in that you think physical media is a solution to anything?

      Op here: Same decade as you. The one where the high-quality digital releases still aren't released purely as downloadable files, they are either made available on a Streaming service or for purchase on a physical medium delivery system such as Blu Ray.

      I never said that's what I consider the BEST solution, I simply stated it would solve the problem of people recording in cinemas, as per the TFA.

  11. Customers are evil! by m0hawk · · Score: 2

    I'm sure that the there are theatre staff that record films too, but I doubt that the PR people will address that publicly. I'm sure theatre managers will be told to look at staff. But publicly, it's their customers they should come down on. Wow, way to go making people feel bad about pirating films.

    1. Re:Customers are evil! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The good cams are recorded by theatre staff, with a quality camera, on a tripod from the control room. The sound is taken digitally.

  12. SWAT team? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why don't the cinemas employ a SWAT team with a shoot-to-kill policy for pirates? That ought to stop movie piracy in it's tracks.

    1. Re:SWAT team? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kill em all and let the MPAA sort em out?

    2. Re:SWAT team? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I support that because they prevent for the purpose of ego honest people from making an honest living.

      Once the muslims have thrown all the libs off roof tops, we can get down to real business.

  13. How do they know it's a camera in the popcorn box? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    What I don't get is how the cinema staff could be sure that it's a camera that is in the popcorn box. Suppose there's a man sitting there in the cinema. He has a box of popcorn on his lap, but he isn't eating any of the popcorn, and he's holding the box with one hand on each side. The cinema staff use their night vision goggles to pick him out of the crowd as a suspect. They confront the man, and ask him to open the popcorn box. He complies, and all they see is popcorn. Still convinced that he's up to no good, one of the cinema staff puts a hand into the box, and starts moving the popcorn around, searching for the camera the staff are sure is in the popcorn box. But after shifting around the popcorn, this staff member doesn't find a camera at all. Instead, all he finds is the poor cinemagoer's cock and balls, which for some inexplicable reason have been stuck through a hole in the bottom of the popcorn box. Not immediately realising what was going on, the cinema staff member's hand thoroughly fondles the poor cinemagoer's cock and balls. As you can imagine, this is a pretty awkward situation for both the cinemagoer and the cinema staff to be in!

  14. Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even if they don't do this, it will be pirated anyway... There's always that one theater where the owner doesn't give a damn, and might even be the one ripping it himself.

    1. Re:Really? by KGIII · · Score: 2

      A friend of mind owns a few theaters, the closest one is in [redacted]. I often go down as they're closing and go watch a few movies by myself or with a few friends. I no longer drink but I used to get really trashed while I was there. We'd use one of the smaller rooms off to the side and often ended up chilling in the projection booth for a while to do other things. I usually pay a handsome sum for the various snacks and they make a fresh thing of popcorn before they leave. The owner, his wife, or the manager will generally participate in the event. I'd say I average a month or two between visits. I am 100% certain I could set up and record. I am also certain I needn't pay but I feel obligated to. We do clean up after ourselves and have even helped staff clean up other parts of the theater so they could leave early. Under no circumstances would I record the movie even if I could get away with it.

      In hindsight, I'm sure this is illegal as all hell (though he 'sells' us tickets - it's sure to break the contract which is likely a civil (or even criminal) offense. So, because of that - and that there's but one theater in that town, I've redacted the name of the theater. I've even 'sneaked' in the night before a new release was going to be shown and there were people already in line. I just walked in with the employees and a few of my friends went in with me. I don't feel bad, really, but it was kind of mean. I'm sure the agency that he gets the films for would be really pissed if they knew - so, yeah, that's the main reason for the redaction I guess.

      I've thought about doing a remodel and having a screening room put in - you can actually get a license to get the full movies while they're still in the theaters though it's a bit pricey. I'm not that much of a movie buff and it's more an event than anything. I think I'd not use it much if it were in my home.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  15. Why? by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All it takes is for one lapse in security, not necessarily in your theater or even your country, and all the time and money spent trying to prevent that movie from leaking is wasted.

    This would be like buying a car alarm that self destructs if any car in the entire world is stolen.

  16. Potential Smash... The Hunger Games? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

    Boy, you people in England really have to wait a long time for movies, don't you?

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:Potential Smash... The Hunger Games? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      We used to. Now we just torrent things before they reach the cinema anyway.

    2. Re:Potential Smash... The Hunger Games? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep we do! Sometimes it can be as long as 9 months from a US TV show to be shown here, and sometimes 12-18 months for the DVD release!! It's no wonder you will hear even the parents at the school gate talking about the torrents they've pulled down the previous evening!

  17. "...James Bond is a big risk..." by turkeydance · · Score: 5, Funny

    spoiler alert.

  18. The usual suspect ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... Money.
    Uploaders are usually part of a group who earn money by :
    - offering early access to the latest movies
    - offering them on public sites and make money through kickbacks from big file storage websites membership sales
    - offering them on public sites and collect money through advertising on that site
    - offering them on public sites as a frontend for malicious activities like advertising fraud and malware distribution.

  19. irony by roesti · · Score: 3, Funny

    It's ironic that you can't take high-tech spy gadgets into a James Bond film.

    What if I'm turning up in costume? Then I *have* to have them.

  20. Lucky you ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    you might be in the position where you have Netflix and other services to fullfill your movie needs.

      We don't have it here and Netflix makes damn sure you will not be able to use their service, even if you would like to pay for it.
    Besides that, most of the movies are synced in the local language, making even the most serious movies just a big joke.
    And we have to be lucky to get the less popular movies because the movie distributor has a monopoly here and basically only shows those movies which generate a certain amount of revenue. So for example European movies are never show here.
    If you are lucky you can get some DVD's through import shops, but even that is considered illegal with courtesy of the Hollywood movie cartel.
    It's easier to get the latest Columbian drugs than foreign movies....

    So the only option a lot of people are left with are just the illegal options.
    And luckily the quality of CAM is not that bad in general.

    1. Re:Lucky you ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you might be in the position where you have Netflix and other services to fullfill your movie needs.

        We don't have it here and Netflix makes damn sure you will not be able to use their service, even if you would like to pay for it.

      I regularly use the Netflix service for US even though I'm not in the US, using a proxy. There was some noise about Netflix planning to crack down on this, but it seems they just made noise to placate movie companies, because this still works fine.

      Besides that, most of the movies are synced in the local language, making even the most serious movies just a big joke.

      I hate dubbed movies too, but with most streaming services and DVD/BR copies you can switch to original language.

      And we have to be lucky to get the less popular movies because the movie distributor has a monopoly here and basically only shows those movies which generate a certain amount of revenue. So for example European movies are never show here.
      If you are lucky you can get some DVD's through import shops, but even that is considered illegal with courtesy of the Hollywood movie cartel.

      Selling DVDs is illegal due to Hollywood?? You are not allowed to buy from Amazon? Never heard about anything like that, sounds like your country has even more draconian copyright laws than most.

      It's easier to get the latest Columbian drugs than foreign movies....

      So the only option a lot of people are left with are just the illegal options.
      And luckily the quality of CAM is not that bad in general.

      Like other posters here, this I don't understand at all. Cam/TS quality is really really crappy. I can't understand that people put themselves through watching it. Even if you only have illegal options, why not wait a few months extra until there is a watchable non-cam version on Piratebay.

    2. Re:Lucky you ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well duh, do Colombian drugs, watch shit quality movies, Life Is Good(R).

  21. I predict a new rash of crime... by macraig · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... of disappearing night vision goggles and some very happy teenage boys.

    1. Re:I predict a new rash of crime... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you can go outside and look at all the UFOs flying around over head.

    2. Re:I predict a new rash of crime... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i believe he is referring to certain clothing items being transparent to infrared light. meaning you can see through clothing.

  22. Know what would convince me to go to a theater? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    A better experience than my home cinema. Which may be only a 26" computer monitor and two 200l floorstanders, but I get to eat and drink whatever I want, no-one's stupid comments interrupt me, chewing noises, cellphone screens or noises, babies crying, commercials, etcetcetc.

    Last time I went to the movies was for the last star trek film, the one with young spock. I had such a horrible time, my and my roommate never even suggested to go to a theater ever since.

    1. Re:Know what would convince me to go to a theater? by jonwil · · Score: 1

      The theater I go to (Cineplex here in Brisbane, Australia) plays a message on the screen before the film telling people to switch off their phones and not use them during the film. And as far as I have observed, people do that.
      I have never observed crying babies in any movie I go to. Some chains here in Australia even run special sessions for parents/etc with babies where they keep the lights low (rather than off) and have change tables in the back.

      As for commercials, sometimes the commercials can be useful (like the one I saw last time offering cheap food at a local establishment if you bring your movie ticket)

      And the trailers are great for showing me whats comming up and what might be worth seeing (although I am glad I didn't trust the trailer for Pixels and researched it a bit otherwise I would have wasted my money on that Adam Sandler piece of crap)

    2. Re:Know what would convince me to go to a theater? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty much my experience here in the US also.

      Of course, if I lived in downtown crapville, I can see how it would be a little more like the previous comment described it, but even then I suspect they were seriously exaggerating.

    3. Re:Know what would convince me to go to a theater? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We get a few rotten people in Queensland as well unfortunately.

      We were at a local cinema - near Brisbane, Australia - (Event Cinemas [used to be BCC] in Indooroopilly) and we in fact had a lady with children who encouraged one to take a piss in the isle on a seat about 2 rows down from us. Giving credit to the staff we did actually get a voucher to go see the movie again but I can see why this behavior would turn people away from the cinemas.

    4. Re:Know what would convince me to go to a theater? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My favorite theater here (Alamo Drafthouse, Ashburn, VA) does pretty much the same thing. Special showings for parents with babies. And, they're serious about booting people for being disruptive during the film. They also do a great job showing clips of old videos, during the pre-movie warmup, that are in context for the feature. Assigned seating (you can book ahead), good food at a reasonable price, and comfortable seating...not much more I could ask for in a theater.

      And no, I don't have any relationship to this place other than being one of their customers.

    5. Re:Know what would convince me to go to a theater? by jonwil · · Score: 1

      That is one of the many reasons I refuse to go to Event Cinemas. Their rip-off pricing is another.

      I live in Beenleigh and my closest cinema is Logan Hyperdome (also an Event-owned operation) yet I will go all the way into town for Cineplex just to avoid their operation.

    6. Re:Know what would convince me to go to a theater? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      We get a few rotten people in Queensland as well unfortunately.

      We were at a local cinema - near Brisbane, Australia - (Event Cinemas [used to be BCC] in Indooroopilly) and we in fact had a lady with children who encouraged one to take a piss in the isle on a seat about 2 rows down from us. Giving credit to the staff we did actually get a voucher to go see the movie again but I can see why this behavior would turn people away from the cinemas.

      Wow, I'm impressed that you have even worse behaved kids in Oz than here in the UK. I thought that was one area where we were still world leaders.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  23. The Stupid Brits can do what they want... but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    I'm not so sure why they waited 70 years to turn themselves into a Government controlled society and surveillance state. They just don't seem to have enough neurons left to understand their prophet George Orwell.. or are just don't give a crap any more or maybe they really want it. (A lot of US citizens seem to also).

    Their country is falling apart, with Scotland and Wales having debates about leaving the mes to create their own messes. Their multi-cultural environment isn't working. They are just not a model that anyone wants or looks up to..( but are there ANY in the world left?)

    If the citizens want their government to use totalitarian measures to force them to kiss the US equivalent of the RIAA and MPAA.. so be it. I really don't care about them.. great history.. no future.. they lost me when they build the "London Eye", an true Eye sore and especially appropriate for the 21th century UK where "Eying" the citizens is priority #1.

  24. No wonder food costs more than admission by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the staff are assigned nightvision goggles, what other things are my concession dollars funding?

  25. Re:How do they know it's a camera in the popcorn b by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No big deal. Happens to me all the time.

  26. Lol MPAA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because the biggest component of "piracy" is - CAM VERSIONS! Can't WAIT to download that shitty cam version of a movie instead of the full Blu-Ray.

  27. Not to belabor the obvious.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But why don't they just slip the projectionist a C-note for a private showing.... If there money in it, organized crime will be involved, and it's not too difficult to lean on somebody. It doesn't even have to get nasty. For most of those guys, just get 'em laid.

    Meanwhile movie theaters look like a demilitarized zone, with big signs everywhere about how they can search you at will. And the theaters are just empty. When I go, and I don't often go 'cause the make me appreciate how gentle the TSA is, I have the whole theater to myself. It's been that way for over a decade. I don't know how these businesses stay in business.

    Now they've got night vision goggles so teenagers can't even sit in the back and make out.

    1. Re:Not to belabor the obvious.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      But why don't they just slip the projectionist a C-note for a private showing....

      Why bother, slip him two C-notes and have him record it for you.

    2. Re:Not to belabor the obvious.... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      But why don't they just slip the projectionist a C-note for a private showing....

      Why bother, slip him two C-notes and have him record it for you.

      Or pay the regular entry fee and watch the film like everyone else? Or isn't that edgy and disruptive enough?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  28. Sure, like whatever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just get a bunch of high-power IR LEDs and sprinkle them around the cinema, have them run at some annoying frequency like 13Hz all slightly out of sync. It'll light up the goggles like in Archer...

  29. Re:The Stupid Brits can do what they want... but.. by 50000BTU_barbecue · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No, government is just the publicly-funded private police for the corporations. Thank Milton Friedman for that!

    --
    Mostly random stuff.
  30. Do you have the most remote idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ... about why this looks so pathetically surreal? It would fit perfectly in Terry Gilliam's Brazil.

    I suspect that movie wasn't really about Brazil, after all...

    1. Re:Do you have the most remote idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait what? damn cam rips.

    2. Re:Do you have the most remote idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The western world lives in Terry Gilliam's Brazil. Especially the UK. His film wasn't prophetic. It was a satirical take on the current state of western democracies circa 1985. Unfortunately we have only gotten worse.

  31. Ineffective at best... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The real problem with this strategy is that they are trying to contain a river with their hands. If even a single copy of the film is taken, it becomes as many copies as it needs to be (thanks to the lossless reproductive power that digital information allows). You can try to catch people at the theater (theatre for the non-Americans) and maybe catch one or two people a month, but someone will always manage to do it because there are hundreds of theaters each staffed with dozens of entry level workers.

    I'd be interested to see how their policy changes when they find out that someone has already released a copy of the film online. Do they just give up and stop wasting resources and man-power to find someone who can't possibly do any more harm than has already been done? Do they start cracking down harder on the 'un-spoiled' movies? Or will they just continue to harass their own customers needlessly?

    The strategy discussed here is like trying to stop a virus caused pandemic with antibiotics given to a single community. Expecting it to work is laughable and it's simply a waste of resources.

  32. Some movies can be damaging by lazy+genes · · Score: 0

    When I get the rights to sue movie producers for filling my head with garbage. Fuck them, most of the new movies suck. I am pretty sure that all the movie producers are meth addicts anyway.

  33. Thought copies mostly came from other sources by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

    years ago I watched a shaky, dim release of a pirated film with silhouettes of people walking across the screen.

    Fairly quickly pristine copies came out. I didn't see the point of camcorded. Somewhere in the world, there is a manager or a projectionist or a screener who is going to release a copy. Or 6 to 20 weeks later, a perfect copy from the bluray or DVD will come out.

    Besides, i can see films on monday for $4.50 u.s. at the theater 4 miles from my house.

    --
    She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  34. I call BS by bugs2squash · · Score: 3, Interesting

    1. There's lots of light in a cinema, a big bright image lights up the audiences faces. I would have thought ample light to run a regular inexpensive CCTV camera pointed away from the screen toward the audience. That not just locates offenders but provides evidence too. More light can be added in the form of IR as others have noted.

    2. NV goggles are expensive and having the staff roam around in them adds even more cost.

    3. Once the NV goggles have the sensitivity turned right down to allow for the brightness of the screen, I would have thought that would render them not much better than human eyesight.

    I imagine this is a scare tactic and nothing more, maybe there'll be a couple of sets of rented goggles moved from theater to theater and "paraded around" to scare people off.

    --
    Nullius in verba
    1. Re:I call BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      re #1 - having been in the UK, this is exactly what they do, sometimes they're obnoxious enough to actually put the screens showing the feeds from the cinemas in the lobby. way to make me not want to ever watch a movie in your cinema.

    2. Re:I call BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I imagine this is a scare tactic and nothing more

      I'm going to agree with the parent - from a business perspective. Movie theaters have ZERO incentive to help with enforcement. It takes up employee time and thus adds additional cost overhead, scares the crap out of moviegoers, and frankly doesn't achieve the desired end goal. The only time I've seen this effective is during limited releases / previews before general releases. I was an employee in a theater for one of those and here's how enforcement went:

      - Cell phones were collected before the show. Didn't like the policy? We refund your ticket price, somebody else purchases the ticket immediately.
      - Only two people allowed in the booth, the projectionist ,and, a security officer to ensure the movie was not being recorded.
      - Security in the theater itself with nightvision goggles. They see a cell phone, they confiscate it.

      The only other place I've seen a similar level of enforcement is Las Vegas shows at $75-$300 per ticket. Enforcing this level of security on a large scale is not economically feasible for a $5-$15 movie ticket.

  35. Re:how much is lost really? by Anna+Merikin · · Score: 1

    I can see a movie once and then see it over and over again without further charge. It's called memory. Let the MPAA try to use night vision to find me memorizing stuff.

  36. What About Condoms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shouldn't their baseball bats be adorned with condoms to protect from the germ-cloud that emanates from these deplorable humans inhabiting movie theaters.

    After all in the UK, a dead human being is a good human being. Because when dead, like a dead pig, we can butt fuck it to our hearts content.

    Ha ha

  37. Honestly - piracy is an inalienable right by ancientt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There is a conflict between the natural and inalienable rights of people and the attempts of governments to curtail the resulting actions. It's neither novel nor resolvable.

    Ones and zeros. Any series of ones and zeros can be represented as a number, understandable by human minds. It is the natural and inalienable right of humans to communicate, thereby sharing, numbers. Humanity, throughout history, has attempted to suppress the ability of others to communicate freely. Every attempt to curtail communication is a battle against the natural state of humanity's need to communicate. Attempting to suppress a natural right always, always, always results in greater suppression of rights or failure.

    Most of us appreciate the outcome of limiting sharing in order to concentrate value. We like multi-million dollar movies. What we don't like are the inevitable outcomes where people are punished in ways that seem unreasonable. The problem is that the two issues are inextricably linked.

    Possession of a number, and sharing of that number should never logically be illegal. Making sharing a number illegal goes against natural human nature. Thus we have a conflict with the historical approach to encouraging innovation and creativity and the natural law that humans must be free to share information. Technology hasn't created this problem, but has made it more obvious. Human nature is also to acquire power so we're pitting two natural human activities against either. Of course the natural right to communicate will eventually prevail over the power acquisition impulse, but not without conflict. Right now the impulse to acquire power is grounded in government enforcement, but the natural right to communicate will always find an expression, thus government censorship (copyright enforcement) is destined to fail.

    In the future, regardless of attempts to prevent it, free sharing of information is inevitable. Acquisition of power will adjust. Movies will be paid for by trailers created in order to generate pre-creation funding. You'll see trailers for movies that haven't been created yet, based on subjects you're interested in and directors you trust. If you like the trailer you see, you'll pledge money taken in escrow. If all goes well, you'll get to see the movie, but otherwise you'll get your money back with a trivial amount of interest. Everyone will get to see the movie for free if it gets made, nobody will make movies that flop and nobody will be punished for sharing numbers.

    It won't happen soon. It won't happen without conflict. Laws will come and go. People will be unfairly punished, movies will fail. Inalienable rights will eventually prevail because law cannot suppress human nature.

    Unchecking "Post Anonymously" because I've had just enough beer to stop caring if people are upset by the truth.

    --
    B) Eliminate all the stupid users. This is frowned upon by society.
    1. Re:Honestly - piracy is an inalienable right by KGIII · · Score: 2

      That's not the most logical argument. Freedoms and rights are not the same. I am free to kill you, I do not have a right to do so. Just because you're free to do so does not mean you have an inalienable right to do so. If you don't understand this then keep drinking, I've spelled it out as clearly as it can be.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    2. Re:Honestly - piracy is an inalienable right by Boronx · · Score: 1

      Freedom of speech means freedom to repeat speech.

    3. Re:Honestly - piracy is an inalienable right by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      Except the ones and zeroes aren't what's copyrighted. A completely different representation of the data that shares no mathematical relationship will be covered by the same copyright.

      The size of these numbers is ludicrous. The odds against anyone independently wanting to use any of them independently if the copyrighted work for mathematical purposes will be ludicrously unlikely to happen within the lifetime of the universe. Like, if you think this is a problem, you'll also worry about spontaneous nuclear explosions of nearby objects.

      What non-contrived mathematical purpose have you been prevented from doing due to being unable to use these numbers? The only things I could imagine are enjoying the creative works of another person's imagination.

    4. Re:Honestly - piracy is an inalienable right by Mantrid42 · · Score: 1

      To play devil's advocate, I assume you must be okay with me freely acquiring personal data about yourself (private correspondences, medical records, etc) and disseminating it, as long as it's digital, and therefore, a number.

    5. Re:Honestly - piracy is an inalienable right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except the ones and zeroes aren't what's copyrighted. A completely different representation of the data that shares no mathematical relationship will be covered by the same copyright.

      Come on, it shares some mathematical relationship, even if it is quite complex.

      The size of these numbers is ludicrous.

      It's kind of like E=m c^2... if I hit you with mass (e.g., my fist), that's assault. If I hit you with energy (e.g., the reflected light off of my face), that's expected. There might be some limit that is in between the two extremes. Since the whole concept is rather modern, no one really knows where to put that limit.

    6. Re:Honestly - piracy is an inalienable right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you're a moron

    7. Re:Honestly - piracy is an inalienable right by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      It's kind of like E=m c^2... if I hit you with mass (e.g., my fist), that's assault. If I hit you with energy (e.g., the reflected light off of my face), that's expected. There might be some limit that is in between the two extremes. Since the whole concept is rather modern, no one really knows where to put that limit.

      No, but since 128 bits is considered a universally unique identifier and most copyrighted data is substantially longer than that.

      But the law doesn't care about pure mathematics. It cares more about intent. If, through a purely mathematical process, accidentally managed to stumble on a number, that by coincidence was an ISO of The Little Mermaid, then as long as you could show that this was a coincidence you would not be in breach of copyright.

    8. Re:Honestly - piracy is an inalienable right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. My number is 1. We are Legion.

    9. Re:Honestly - piracy is an inalienable right by ancientt · · Score: 1

      I don't think I said rights and freedoms are the same thing.

      http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Inalienable+rights

      I'd agree that freedoms and rights aren't the same thing. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are all things that can be taken from someone, but the fact that they can be taken doesn't keep them from being rights. Freedom is a right, an inalienable right, that can be taken away. The natural state of man is to expect freedom and to rebel if deprived of it. Sure, you're free to kill me, but it's not a right, but then neither is it the natural state of man to expect that right or to rebel if deprived of it.

      I actually read quite a bit about freedoms and rights and what it is that makes those we consider inalienable different from those we impose and restrict for the good of society. Obviously people (I'm a little shocked how many) will take the time to disagree. I welcome disagreement because it's often the best opportunity I have to learn something new.

      I'm going to need a little more from you in order to change my mind. You're marked as a friend because I've found your opinions insightful in the past, so perhaps you can manage it.

      --
      B) Eliminate all the stupid users. This is frowned upon by society.
    10. Re:Honestly - piracy is an inalienable right by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Movies will be paid for by trailers created in order to generate pre-creation funding. You'll see trailers for movies that haven't been created yet, based on subjects you're interested in and directors you trust. If you like the trailer you see, you'll pledge money taken in escrow. If all goes well, you'll get to see the movie, but otherwise you'll get your money back with a trivial amount of interest. Everyone will get to see the movie for free if it gets made, nobody will make movies that flop and nobody will be punished for sharing numbers.

      Trailers are notoriously misleading.

      If everyone gets to see the movie for free if it gets made, why would anyone pay money up front?

      Most seriously, how would you encourage more experimental or controversial movies if they were dependent on pre-funding based on people's pre-conceived ideas of what they want to see? That is not a good basis for creating challenging works of art.

      I see several flaws in your plan, but at least you haven't fallen back on the "well they can always sell action figures to make money" argument for free distribution of digital works.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    11. Re:Honestly - piracy is an inalienable right by ancientt · · Score: 1

      The point about intent is a good one. I'm also not arguing that the laws, even copyright laws, are without merit. I enjoy the fruits of those laws too and wouldn't suggest they should be unilaterally repealed. Despite the apparent common consensus by people responding to my original post, I don't even advocate piracy. I do think that there is room for improvement in the law and I do advocate for that, but that's not the topic I intended to discuss.

      Speaking of math though, I keep being bothered by an idea. There is a number that could be used to represent an ISO of The Little Mermaid. I suspect any irrational number would contain it, but lets use Pi for this thought experiment. Somewhere in Pi, there is a number which can be easily translated to a binary description of that ISO, lets call that number Pi-TLM. If I have the computing power to find Pi-TLM, and I distribute the necessary description in order to allow others to use Pi-TLM to reproduce ISOs, then I'm clearly in breach of the intent of copyright laws. Most numbers can be reduced and referenced by a shorter notation, so I'd expect Pi-TLM would be the same, probably by factorization, exponents or a formula. Communicating that formula would probably also violate the intent of copyright laws. But what if you didn't communicate the whole representation, leaving a couple hundred thousand possible interpretations out, which would be trivial for a computer to go through in order to identify the actual candidate. I have no idea what Pi-TLM would be, but pretend it's 42â'â'â'â'^237+650^10^23994-4. (Those ugly characters are entered as up arrows, to denote Knuth's up-arrow notation, but the slashcode mangled version works just as well for this discussion.) Obviously I can say "there is a number Pi-TLM" without breaching copyright and I can say that I found it and I can even say it's in the range greater than 42â'â'â'â'^237.

      The idea that bothers me is this: Is it possible to define the point at which I give too much information?

      --
      B) Eliminate all the stupid users. This is frowned upon by society.
    12. Re:Honestly - piracy is an inalienable right by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I'd not expect to change your mind, not even remotely. I'd not even hope to. At best, I can share my opinion.

      First, let me tell you that I'm a pirating fool. I'll pirate more than I'll ever consume. I have more movies downloaded than I'll ever watch and seldom delete them. I usually pay for software, however. I have more music than I'll ever need - though, honestly, I also own a lot of CDs.

      Anyhow, you're always free to remember and to tell someone about a movie you watched. What you don't have is an inalienable right to take someone else's work and give it to another. I'd say that you have a right to share a copy, of a physical medium, so long as that copy was rightfully paid for. You don't have a right to make multiple, unpaid, copies and distribute those.

      There is harm to a business. It's something called 'potential.' Even if I was never going to buy the movie, if you rip and it give it to me, there's less potential for me to buy my own copy in the future. In fact, I dare say it is so unlikely that I'll risk calling it impossible in my particular case. When you've done that, when you've shared a copy, you've deprived another from the potential to make that sale. What that value is, for what it is worth, is immaterial - it may be an almost trivial amount but it is deprivation nonetheless.

      When we say we've not stolen anything, we have. We've stolen the potential sale when we share it, enable sharing, or make a copy without paying it. The potential has been reduced.

      Now, certainly, we've every right (inalienable even) to share our experiences - we can recount the movie verbatim and even draw really nice pictures and make a flip-book if we want. What we don't have, however, is an inalienable right to make copies of the works and to deprive them or their potential. Even if you way you'd never buy it anyhow, the potential is reduced simply by your act of making a copy. This is deprivation of an intangible asset. Businesses often work with intangible assets - we call them intellectual property at times. Sometimes they are sales projections.

      I could go on, I could describe how investors are real people (snickers) and that they may have real financial losses incurred due to piracy. The gist is, basically, that there is deprivation and there is no inalienable right to the actual content. Just because you have the freedom does not mean you have the right. You're a pirate and depriving a business, and real people, of their assets every single time you engage in piracy.

      Now, we can go off and come up with all sorts of justifications to make us feel better about piracy if we want. Hell, I pirate stuff all the time and I can easily afford to buy them. My personal issues are simplicity, control, invasive behaviors, and a desire to actively harm those who'd harm others. I deprive them of their intangible properties because I don't like them, I'm an asshole, and because I will do what I can to be a thorn in their side. I have, right this minute, about 20 GB of television shows that I'm seeding at the request of someone on Kick Ass Torrents. I'm not even going to EVER watch those shows.

      However, I don't have a right to do so. Nor do I have a right to consume those shows. I certainly have no inalienable or legal rights to those. I sure as shit don't have a right to be seeding them. You don't have an inalienable right to it because we, as a society, have determined that such doesn't exist. You WISH there were such rights (and I tend to agree though I'd worry about the quality and availability but that's too much to type about today and this is already long enough). Just because you're physically able to do something doesn't mean you're entitled to do so. We can go back to the freedom to kill and the right to do so for an extreme example.

      Again, I can only share my opinion and I have no desire to change your views. A conversation needn't be about making arguments that are intended to change another's views. It needn't be some sort of fight to see who has some sort of superiority. I

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    13. Re:Honestly - piracy is an inalienable right by ancientt · · Score: 1

      In the future, regardless of attempts to prevent it, free sharing of information is inevitable.

      That's not a statement of preference, it's an observation of what I think is an irreversible trend. I doubt I'll be alive to see that time but I hope that law evolves ways to handle it. You seem to be in the majority in thinking I was advocating piracy and I can see how it can come across that way, but really I don't, just like I don't advocate setting all prisoners free just because liberty is an inalienable right.

      The internet would be illegal according to the original reading of copyright laws because the act of viewing content on your own computer makes a copy, usually several, on your computer. The laws and their interpretations have evolved to consider making a copy, even many copies, as a part of the normal and intended use, legal. It wasn't and still isn't without conflict. People have been sued for linking to someone else's page and had that protected, but sharing links to files, even without ever copying the file is often illegal. As noted by someone else, the law cares about intent. Eventually, I expect the law will evolve to handle free sharing of information, but I recognize that I don't really know what that society will look like or how the law will evolve.

      --
      B) Eliminate all the stupid users. This is frowned upon by society.
    14. Re:Honestly - piracy is an inalienable right by ancientt · · Score: 1

      When we say we've not stolen anything, we have. We've stolen the potential sale when we share it, enable sharing, or make a copy without paying it. The potential has been reduced.

      Totally agree and couldn't have said it better. I would add however, that intellectual property only exists as a construct of society and government as opposed to physical property which exists naturally. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, and indeed a lot of the society I appreciate depends on it now. I am saying that it's unnatural and is contrary to human nature.

      You don't have an inalienable right to it because we, as a society, have determined that such doesn't exist.

      That's where we diverge. I don't think society gets to determine what inalienable rights are, just freedoms, restrictions and protected rights.

      Maybe.

      Whether or not it was your intent, I'm thinking through the idea that maybe what determines man's natural state and inalienable rights are malleable and determined by society. A child born into slavery in 1600 had no expectation of a right to liberty. I'd like to say that it is the natural state of that child and every such slave child to expect liberty as a natural right and rebel against having it denied. I'd like to say that, but I don't think history supports that view. Maybe that child didn't actually have a right to liberty. It doesn't sit well with me to accept the idea, but there could be truth there I just don't like to admit. I really wish I could sit down with Jefferson and have him explain what he really thought and then maybe ask Sally Hemings what she thought about his views.

      --
      B) Eliminate all the stupid users. This is frowned upon by society.
    15. Re:Honestly - piracy is an inalienable right by ancientt · · Score: 1

      Interesting questions. Let me fire up my crystal ball and peer a couple hundred years in the future to get some answers.

      If everyone gets to see the movie for free if it gets made, why would anyone pay money up front?

      They pay for the same reason people vote now. It doesn't cost much to be a contributor to something you hope will happen. They'll contribute what we'd think of as our movie budget now in the hopes it will be created.

      Most seriously, how would you encourage more experimental or controversial movies if they were dependent on pre-funding based on people's pre-conceived ideas of what they want to see?

      I expect it won't be that much different than it is now. A producer gets to produce something if he can convince people it's a good idea or has the money to do it himself. Few experimental or controversial movies get a big budget now, and when they do it's because they've built a reputation for success with the people who have the money to invest. The big changes will really be in how the middle men work. Private funding won't disappear, but it will be overtaken by public funding. Kickstarter will be looked back on as the cute simplistic precursor. They're already producing movies but in the future there will be many other organizations doing it on a massively larger scale with a whole different set of laws supporting them.

      --
      B) Eliminate all the stupid users. This is frowned upon by society.
    16. Re:Honestly - piracy is an inalienable right by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I think a good way to describe it is that we, as a society, take all of our freedoms and put them into a pool. From this pool we decide, as a whole (generally - we are ruled by consent, after all), which liberties we pull from this pool. It is how we end up with laws, all laws are (and I can not think of any exceptions) are a restriction of someone's freedoms.

      A good example would be slavery - seeing as you mentioned it. Laws against slavery restrict my freedom to buy another person and rightfully so. Laws against theft, murder, fraud, etc... Those, too, are restrictions on freedoms. All rights are, in essence, constructs and without them we have anarchy. We'd have a situation where I own, and am well trained in the use of - as well as reasonably practiced, a number of firearms which would enable me to take your freedoms from you by threat or act of force. In a free world I can enslave you if I have the means to do so. I'm not sure that I'd argue on that side, I'm not sure how anyone can argue that side. I am sure that I've seen some confused people do so but I digress.

      So, absolutely, it's a construct. One made by man. So? That doesn't mean you've an inalienable right to deprive another or to benefit from another's deprivation. I simply have yet to hear this argued logically - and I'm an open source aficionado. (I should not be confused with a zealot, such should be obvious.) I also believe that we should amend copyright law, there should be a finite limit. However, I don't believe that we've a universal right to declare all works of an individual or a group as communal property, that's outlandish and yet it's an oft parroted sentiment here.

      Just because we're capable does not mean that we're entitled. I can, and probably would should there be circumstances that allowed it, be a complete and total prick that strips others of their liberties for my own benefits. Fortunately, for you sake, we've thrown those freedoms into a communal pot and withdrawn our rights and give ourselves restrictions. I've yet to see a viable, reasoned, argument that supports the idea that my constructs, be they as minimal as an idea, become someone else's property.

      Now, in my case, I'd give those away - those constructs of the mind or whatnot. That's my choice and I'm free to do so - I have a right to do so. They were my property. What I do not have is the right to force someone else to match my ideals. This sure as hell doesn't mean that we can't or shouldn't make sweeping changes to intellectual property laws. This does mean that I can not agree that I have an inalienable right to your work or the right to deprive you of assets.

      For such a smart group of people there are some conclusions reached that make no sense to me. I've argued this on this site a number of times and, to be honest, that's exactly why I'd no hope or intention of altering your views. At the best I may give you some insight as to my views and, frankly, I'd not expect it to change your actions.

      By all means, pirate the ever living hell out of anything you want until the laws are changed and until some sense is beaten into the industry. I expect draconian reactions but, well, I'm okay with that - the more the draconian responses the more normal people will be impacted and the greater the outrage and, as such, the sooner the things change. (That's my hope, at any rate.)

      Over the years, especially faced with this intellectually stimulating group (often very good at debating), I've had the chance to refine my argument. Well, not really an argument as I don't intend to change any views or behaviors. Instead, I give you my own conclusions based on logic and reasoning. This has been gifted to me by the denizens here at this site. I get many things from you - including the chance to learn, grow, and see things in alternative ways. I've seldom been anything other than a moderate - in most aspects of my life. You could say that I'm zealous about being moderate. ;)

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    17. Re:Honestly - piracy is an inalienable right by ancientt · · Score: 1

      I've yet to see a viable, reasoned, argument that supports the idea that my constructs, be they as minimal as an idea, become someone else's property.

      Now there's a challenge. How about "property is theft." That has a nice ring to it, can't believe I just made that up, maybe I can get a copyright or trademark on it.

      I've deliberately avoided the term natural law, even though the idea of inalienable rights are tied so closely to it because I think it's so fuzzy to define. I'm inclined a little toward stoicism so maybe I should work harder at learning to defend the idea. But I'm lazy, so not today. I bring it up only to ask if you're quite solidly against the idea that natural law exists, cause it sounds that way and I'm reconsidering whether I can support the idea of any inalienable right without that common ground. If natural law is common, then I can argue that depriving mankind of the right to copy and share is against it. Our society and laws have created a construct to protect information as property where none should rationally or naturally exist because, like fiat money, it makes progress easier. Laws that run counter to natural law are bad, not because they have no good effect, but rather because they will always be broken by the majority. Heck, performing happy birthday in public was a big frigging deal to me, but most people had no idea it was illegal; most still don't even after all the news stories about it.

      Assuming I can't find that common ground, then I think I'd revert to the societal good argument. Sharing information benefits society but depriving people of the freedom to make copies of work benefits society too. They have different benefits, but one of them is being handled by laws designed to handle papers and movable type. For societal benefit, the laws need to be changed. Not rapidly, that way lies pain and anarchy, but with great forethought. I do free programming to build a reputation, which gets me a job with a paycheck. Redhat makes money in essentially the same way. It's obvious that innovation and good can come with free information, but less obvious what the world would look like without copyright.

      I'm thinking it is an inevitable thing, obviously not everyone agrees, but if you were in charge of changing the laws to make it happen (eventually, like say by 2200,) how would you go about it?

      That, by the way, I think is my best answer to the challenge, the constructs that belong to you only belong to you so long as you don't share them with anyone, unless the law creates an artificial restriction. There is no logical argument against that because the law is the definition of what you can own (see slavery discussion.) If there is no law to prohibit copying your work, every copy belongs to the person who has it.

      --
      B) Eliminate all the stupid users. This is frowned upon by society.
    18. Re:Honestly - piracy is an inalienable right by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Would ownership, itself, not be a natural law? Since time immemorial, and I can think of no cultures that differ, there has always been property ownership. This is physical property, of course, but I expect it to be concluded that the idea extends to intangible goods as well. If you think, for example, such didn't exist (the immediate example that springs to mind would be land for Native Americans) then, by all means, I'd suggest you go try to take the headdress from the chieftain. Or, if you'd like, grab his tepee and run off with it.

      I humbly submit that ownership has been a concept since the dawn of time when man realized he did not have an obligation to share his goods. Some societies have had certain communal goods, certainly, but this did not eliminate ownership. As for the commons and the benefits - even if that were true - there's no reasonable way (that I can think of - and I've tried) to conclude that one should be required to give up their rights to ownership for the benefit of society - that would be communism. Greed, human nature, and an intrinsic right to the fruits of your labor are going to prevent communism from working in anything larger than a tribe and only a small one at that. Even then, there's ownership to some extent - I don't know of any society that has done without it - ever.

      So, in short, I'm not really able to accept the common good, the altruistic, or the likes. It just doesn't compute. What I make is mine and I have ownership of it. You're not free to make a copy unless I give you that right (and I will but that's besides the point). I have no right to the fruits of your labor - I could argue that I should be allowed to make derivatives of it and, legally, I'm afforded some rights to do so.

      Do the lines need to be moved? Absolutely. Do they need to go (or even should they go) to the extreme? No, in either direction. Then again, I'm a pragmatic Buddhist (we often are, I think it's our default state) and see moderation as an important aspect in life. Note: I am not a monk. I'm not even a very good Buddhist. However, I simply can't accept that there's a natural state where the inalienable right is to take ownership of someone else's property without compensation. Immaterial or not, we call that theft and, in this specific case, we're stealing the afore mentioned potential which is an actual asset that's listed on balance sheets. (We could argue that it should not be but it's used as a metric for viability and listed as an asset under many terms including such names as expected market growth.)

      Finally, screw the abusive pricks in charge of much of the media today. Pirate until you're unable to pirate more. Pirate it twice, just to piss them off. (Did I mention that I'm not a very good Buddhist?) They're abusive corporations with all sorts of behaviors that probably qualify as anti-trust antics. They're harmful and do nothing to help other than, maybe, providing initial funding for those who could not afford it themselves. I'd like to see VC work in that area - there is some already but I'd like to see more. I've been offered a few investments in that arena but haven't availed myself of such at this time. Hell, in sheer frustration, I'm going to go find someone else that wants to use my system as a seedbox and grab another dozen GBs for sharing of videos that I'm never going to watch myself. Bugger 'em, bugger 'em all I say.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    19. Re:Honestly - piracy is an inalienable right by ancientt · · Score: 1

      The basic question I am asking is whether intellectual property should be property. I'm not asking whether it is defined (by law) as property. If the law changes or I move beyond it's jurisdiction, then it ceases to be property. (Sorry if I mislead with my attempt at humor.) Under current law, copying illegally deprives you of the opportunity to profit due to governmental created and enforced scarcity. You're also deprived of the opportunity to buy and sell people, but it wasn't always that way. Maybe it shouldn't be that way for intellectual property either.

      What I make is mine and I have ownership of it. You're not free to make a copy unless I give you that right

      What you make is yours and you have ownership of it, but if you allow me to observe it, I have a right to make a copy unless somebody takes that right away.

      I know, it looks like semantics, but in this case, where the governments create and enforce an artificial scarcity of constructs that exist as ideas rather than physical things, it's really more accurate to say that.

      If you refuse to speculate on how a society would work if we transitioned to law without copyright, then your argument boils down to "this is the best way because it is working" and mine boils down to "imagine it working differently, it would be better." The world was different when copyright was invented in 1710. Importing slaves was still legal in the US in 1710. Society's values, norms and laws change. You say intellectual property is property. I agree. I say it shouldn't be and you ignored that issue.

      We both know the reasons people use to argue both sides, so I'll turn your previous challenge back on you. I've yet to see a viable, reasoned, argument that supports the idea that copyright is good for humanity in the long run.

      --
      B) Eliminate all the stupid users. This is frowned upon by society.
    20. Re:Honestly - piracy is an inalienable right by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I did touch on that issue - clearly (I thought). It is an inalienable right to own intellectual property much like it is an inalienable right to be free (not a slave). The ability to have your intellectual property protected with the force of law is akin to having your life protected by the full force of law. Just like we lost our freedom to own slaves (and having given them the right to be free) we have removed the right to take others labor by hook or by crook and that too is a restriction on our freedoms to afford rights to those who would be otherwise subjected to abuses because of their inability to protect themselves, or similar. I realize that is a really extreme way to describe it but that is what it is and what it has done and what its purpose is.

      However, I claim no fair. Now I'm stoned. But, again, that's the gist of it right there. I mean, in a nutshell. We can't own slaves. We can't steal the labor of another person. They're much more alike than one might think.

      How's that for a viable, reasonable, and logical conclusion to draw? I'd thought it was pretty well spelled out but, I suspect, I am not very articulate.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    21. Re:Honestly - piracy is an inalienable right by ancientt · · Score: 1

      The ability to have your intellectual property protected with the force of law is akin to having your life protected by the full force of law.

      But why? Nevermind. It's said clearly enough, and I don't have anything new to add, but thanks for presenting the other side.

      --
      B) Eliminate all the stupid users. This is frowned upon by society.
    22. Re:Honestly - piracy is an inalienable right by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I'm all sorts of willing to have you present a logical and rational (as well as reasoned) supporting argument for slavery. I mean, hell, I could argue that side. I'd not want to and I'm absolutely certain that it would be frowned upon so much that I'd never get break past their attempts to appeal to emotion or the likes. I mean, yeah, I could make that argument too but I don't want to be the one to do it.

      In the end, I'd have to disagree with my own logic if I were to argue a pro-slavery side of a debate. I'd probably start by saying that we're already forced to live just by nature of our existence and we already are placing ourselves in a position of servitude in exchange for creature comforts. I mean, yeah, I could argue this but no - just no. At some point we have to enact laws to ensure rights that counter-act another's freedoms. Where that position lies is subject to debate, of course.

      But, as I said, I'll listen to a well reasoned argument. There's a tiny chance that it will change my views but it's not very likely. I appreciate your patience in hearing me out. I wish I were more articulate but I'm verbose and ramble a great deal. They say I'm pretty much sane (oh, I've had them check) but I'm pretty sure that I think in really strange ways and my writing seems to demonstrate that. So, thanks for listening, I suppose.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  38. Re:How do they know it's a camera in the popcorn b by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "... But this one's eating my popcorn!"

    Note that this is a gag punchline, involving a darkened movie theatre.
    Over the years, many jokes have constructed around this punchline; the most common one involves a man smuggling his BFF Chicken in, so that they could watch the movie together.
    In the Ireland of my youth, it wasn't a chicken, it was a snake, the gotcha being that there are no snakes in Ireland. Since the joke involves unusual things found in trousers, a common recent variant mentions Ferrets.

  39. One problem by behrooz0az · · Score: 1

    Maybe I'm old and tech has improved since I last used a night vision goggle. Don't the goggles intensify brightness by like 10x?
    What happens if they look at the projector or the curtain?

    --
    Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion. -- Spazmania (174582)
  40. ... to combat movie PRIVACY by r-diddly · · Score: 1

    FTFY

  41. So they already fuck the colours and.... by ruir · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This night googles have been used for years in the USA. So they jack you in price for sitting you in a glorified garage, already fuck the movie colours for it "not to be copied" to the point that for instance, the chromatic of several movies are definitely odd even when watching the original both on cinema and TV (Resident Evil, Chronicles of Ridick and Book of Eli comes to mind), and now they handle you as the enemy in the combat field, and teens cannot go there dating and petting without giving an hard on to the employees. I have not been in a cinema for years, and sure wont be in a near future. For me, it would be some place better than home, and not worse. A living room, they serving me lobster with me with I watched a movie, and with some naked female waiters, and I might reconsider it. Otherwise, I wont be paying to enter a glorified prison system. They are forgetting it is not your great-grandfathers time where they were awed by movies, nowadays we all have entertaining systems at home.

    1. Re:So they already fuck the colours and.... by ruir · · Score: 1

      (english in not my first language, and I have to revise better my posts. When reading them, I am painfully aware of where are the mistakes)

    2. Re:So they already fuck the colours and.... by tehcyder · · Score: 2

      (english in not my first language, and I have to revise better my posts. When reading them, I am painfully aware of where are the mistakes)

      Your post made more sense and contained fewer grammatical quirks than most on slashdot written by people with English as their only language, so I wouldn't worry too much.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    3. Re:So they already fuck the colours and.... by ruir · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the support

  42. And as usual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We'll be footing the bill for those things, which they'll purchase at near military-prices, with the ticket costs.
    Which will drive moviegoers down further as they're already getting a bit ridiculous, and will be blamed on piracy as well.

    1. Re:And as usual by ruir · · Score: 1

      Only if you want. I have not been in cinema for a decade, and went there where I lived because I was expat in a fucking place that was boring as hell.

  43. To drill down on who might possibly record by TranceThrust · · Score: 1

    Really? Fucking with your paying customers to prevent some crappy cam version to hit the internet?

    When are they going to learn?

    1. Re:To drill down on who might possibly record by ruir · · Score: 1

      I do not when you stop being a customer and start being a captive audience. Between having 1h of adverts rammed down my throat, nil condition nor hygiene, and that being a glorified garage/prison.... and for the record, they do not have time to clean properly the premises and I have been told in my student times by friends that work there that people wank and leave things like napkins and socks behind, and also the ocasional shitter. Not to mention when I gave up going to a movie where they did not even bother to clean properly the food and coke on the carpet. People and cinemas are disgusting.

    2. Re:To drill down on who might possibly record by plover · · Score: 1

      Then you're going to the wrong theaters. I wouldn't give places like that a second glance, let alone cash. If you walk in and it's disgusting, go get your money back and leave.

      --
      John
    3. Re:To drill down on who might possibly record by ruir · · Score: 1

      I am talking about 20 years ago, when I stopped going regularly to cinemas in my home country. I did not really enjoyed the experience, so I stopped going. Four years ago went because a friend and my lady were insisting about it, and frankly ended telling to the lady on front of me to turn the damn phone off once it ring for the 14th or 15th time with an obnoxious tune each time an SMS got in. Thanks, but no thanks.

  44. Reversement by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    In Soviet UK, movie watches you!

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  45. Re:How do they know it's a camera in the popcorn b by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you want to make a decent CAM copy, you don't sit in a cinema desperately trying to hide your camera. You pay off one of the minimum wage ushers.

    But hey... let them continue treating customers like criminals, herding them into a room where they are watched with infrared cameras in case they film part of your "masterpiece" about fighting robots or superheros. Idiots.

  46. Bother by louic · · Score: 1

    If they ever bother me about this when I just go there to relax and watch a movie I will immediately demand my money back and never visit that movie theatre again.

  47. Utterly pointless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This just furthers evidence that the film makers have no idea about piracy. Only the truly dedicated are going to download cams, and they either went to see it in cinemas on day one or were never going to see it in cinema to begin with.

  48. Total BS of course by DrXym · · Score: 1

    Movie theatre staff *won't* be wearing night vision goggles. It's an absurd idea. The most one can expect is that if a particular cinema has been the source of piracy in the past (identifiable from watermarks in the image / audio), then there might be undercover investigators in the audience looking out for surreptitious filming. Personally if I were pirating movies I'd vary my routine around and I'd stick the camera into a cup or popcorn bag where it would be virtually impossible to see in the dark.

    1. Re:Total BS of course by ruir · · Score: 1

      Will you be arrested also from pirating the 1h of adverts they ram up your ass? They are not clear in the article. |ducks|

  49. Re:How do they know it's a camera in the popcorn b by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The camera lens gives off an intense IR signature, will look like a bright dot. That's what they are looking for, hot camera sensors.

  50. this is not new by Ginger+Unicorn · · Score: 5, Informative

    i live in the uk and my local cineworld did this briefly about 5 years ago after a commandment from on high. The staff found it embarrasing and stupid and i remember seeing them wandering in with the goggles on and staring at us for a few seconds then walking off again. They only did it for a couple of weeks.

    This isn't new, and it isn't really a sustained procedure of audience monitoring. It's a publicity stunt to make people think they're being watched - make a giant fuss about how they're watching everyone in the dark and hopefully that will scare them into not filming the screen.

    They do it long enough to make people aware of it then stop again. Then in another 5 years make a big hoo-haa and break out the night vision goggles again for a couple of weeks.

    --
    (1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
    1. Re:this is not new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >The staff found it embarrasing and stupid
      I love your description, and have experienced that.

      Yes I was an embarrassed cinema staffer for a while myself. We were required to walk down the isles, (twice per show), with a flashlight turned-on & point it throughout the seats to 'ensure dirty shoes were not resting on the seat in front'. And should I mention my own silhouette against the screen as I wandered the isles? Oh the awkwardness as patrons were beamed in the face by my intrusion. I quickly chose to just come through the doors, wait a set time, then walk out & return to my regular duties. All the seat's upholstery remain in excellent condition.

    2. Re:this is not new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given that (i) it's all for show anyway, (ii) the real goggles would likely be expensive for once-every-five-years use, and (iii) you're not going to see them well in the dark... what's the betting that their "night vision goggles" are actually a couple of empty toilet rolls attached to a bit of elastic? ;-)

      Joking aside, I'm sure they could probably get sufficiently convincing fake goggles to do the job anyway.

  51. What about pirating movie theater staff? by Visarga · · Score: 1

    And who's going to watch for movie theatre staff that pirates movies? It only takes one to get a copy out to the scene.

  52. Just avoid the cinema... by jregel · · Score: 1

    The approach I take is to not bother going to the overpriced, customer-hostile and noisy cinema. There are very few films that are so amazing that I can't wait a few months until they come out on DVD/Netflix/Amazon etc.

    The bottom line is, the media companies have an over-inflated opinion of their product. I'm happy to wait a bit and then watch it in the comfort of my own home. And if this means that the cinema industry dies, then so be it. Cinemas need to attract customers, not treat them as potential criminals.

    Meanwhile, I'll get on with doing lots of other non-cinema leisure activities.

    1. Re:Just avoid the cinema... by davide+marney · · Score: 1

      This

      --
      "We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
    2. Re:Just avoid the cinema... by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      The approach I take is to not bother going to the overpriced, customer-hostile and noisy cinema.

      Agreed. But then, I go to matinees, at a theater that kicks noisy/disruptive people out. Some movies are best seen on a big (bigger than my 60") screen, with a great audio system. I'm selective about the movies we attend, so we only go a few (maybe half-dozen) times a year, treating it as a lunch date with my wife. Otherwise, I wait for it to come to cable.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
  53. Who watches a movie this way? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hard to believe people watch movies this way? I either pay to sit and watch it on a nice big screen with all the surround sound and HD or wait for it to come out on rental. The quality of these pirated versions is dreadful and its hard to believe people are so cheap as to waste time downloading such crap just to say they watched it free. It reminds me of the bootleg copies sold out of the back of a car. Worse then a copy of a copy of a VHS tape. Gee, if your that cheap why even bother watching the movie?

  54. Re:How do they know it's a camera in the popcorn b by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Normal camera lenses are totally opaque to thermal IR. The lens itself can get hot due to the working electronics, but in a sufficiently large camera (what you want for recording a movie) it should be a non-issue.

  55. Far far easier to do this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It is far, FAR easier to just tag every movie with an ID.
    Let's face it, these are special copies they rent from the movie distributors. They could all be tagged.
    All it takes is a bunch of frames throughout the movie having some small, invisible to the untrained eye, artifacts or such.
    Even crappy cameras will pick up on some of those frames at some point.
    Boom, cinema identified.
    Of course, you can get around that by looking at 2 or more separate films, identifying oddities and removing them.

    Hell, with some lights placed in the correct positions, you could bloody triangulate the cameras position in the cinema.

    Not that it matters anyway since most of the good pirate copies come from staff, or leaks from the actual copy directly.

    1. Re:Far far easier to do this... by Kartu · · Score: 1

      Blur or whatever postprocessing and, tadaaa, there goes your ID.
      DVD Screeners are marked like that, doesn't really help.

    2. Re:Far far easier to do this... by plover · · Score: 1

      Digital movies can be watermarked all the way down to the exact screening. I remember seeing a movie that had a few flashes of birds, the number and pattern of the birds was a fingerprint identifying the theater and showing. But not all schemes are that ugly or visible. All they have to do is insert and remove a few frames from a few scenes, altering the durations slightly, and they have a non-viewer-disruptive unique fingerprint of the showing that survives anything -- including cam-rips.

      --
      John
  56. Drinks cup periscope camera by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hide the camera in the cup, and film through the straw.

  57. Re:How do they know it's a camera in the popcorn b by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

    Let's hope cinemagoer doesn't regret the choice of hot butter topping

    --
    This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
  58. How about by WillyWanker · · Score: 1

    Instead of patrolling on behalf of the movie studios they patrol on behalf of their paying customers and eject people who are on their cellphones, excessively chatty, or bring screaming kids into the theater?

    And they wonder why people have stopped going to the movies.

  59. Patience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have no desire to see the latest film at the time it comes out. I simply stick it on the list of "want to watch". Wait 12-18 months and I can pick up that blockbuster movie second-hand on DVD through Amazon market place for a a couple of quid, rather then pay £15 ( plus snacks with added Snax-Tax(tm) ) or even £10 for a new release. I have one go-to seller on Amazon market place that always has second-hand DVDs for £1.50 +P&P. I can get a stack of 8-10 films for £20, rip them from DVD to the media NAS box and then enjoy them in the privacy of my own home with my snacks at a reasonable price from the local supermarket, I can drink beer, get off my face if I wish and shout at the screen without being thrown out for being disruptive, well that does happen sometimes if it's a movie my wife wants to watch! Ha ha!

  60. Re:how much is lost really? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

    I can see a movie once and then see it over and over again without further charge. It's called memory. Let the MPAA try to use night vision to find me memorizing stuff.

    And like most of us you have a perfect photographic memory. Obvs.

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  61. Re:How do they know it's a camera in the popcorn b by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

    As you can imagine, this is a pretty awkward situation for both the cinemagoer and the cinema staff to be in!

    It also explains why the popcorn is salty and sticky at the same time

    --
    blindly antisocialist = antisocial
  62. Tiered release is the issue. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Release on all formats at the same time. Let people pick where they want to watch it.

  63. Stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First, those employees are not paid enough to risk a confrontation.

    Second, I have yet to see a single pirated move recorded in a theater that I would ever want to watch. The sound is wrong, the video quality is poor, their are people in the way, people talking, shaking video, etc.

    Anything other that a direct RIP from the original, is a waste of time and not a real threat to the industry's stormtroopers.

  64. Re: Nobody cares about your home theater by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People still go on dates to the movies? Is this 1959?

  65. Casino Royale fixed the Bond risk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    2 hours of watching James Bond play poker convinced me that i never need to see another bond film ever again.

  66. Do people really watch CAM rips? by wardrich86 · · Score: 1

    Just wait for the DVD/Blu-Ray rips to come out... way better quality, anyway.

  67. Looking in the wrong place by acoustix · · Score: 1

    Almost all of the pirated movies that I have seen were stolen at the studio, not the theater. Some of them even had the production information still on the screen. And some of them were the complete DVD/Blu-ray movie package that was yet to be released.

    The studios know their own people are stealing, but they keep blaming the general public.

    --
    "A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
  68. Re:How do they know it's a camera in the popcorn b by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Damn it! You've just publicised my 'special move' when going on dates at the cinema. I let my date munch away on popcorn and then get her prize at the bottom. It never fails to surprise and delight. I can't imagine why I've needed to do it to so many dates though...

    (of course, the 'cinema move' of pretending to stretch your arms and then putting them down around your date is another Top Move, but it's become somewhat over publicised so doesn't get the same surprised reaction as the box thing).

  69. Re:Nobody cares about your home theater by Quirkz · · Score: 1

    Well, I don't know about the OP, but the specific reason I stopped getting to movies was the birth of my kids. The only thing worse than paying full movie prices plus full concession prices is having to pay even more for a babysitter. The wife and I get occasional dates, but it's rarely for a movie.

  70. Take a IR leds to the movies by naranek · · Score: 1

    Want to see if your local theater staff has night vision goggles? Take some IR leds to the theater and keep them on during the movie.

    --
    Only dumb birds land downwind.
  71. Re:Nobody cares about your home theater by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This. Why go to all the trouble of getting a babysitter just so you can gamble your evening on a movie you haven't seen before and might not be any good?
    Want to see a movie? Watch it at home.
    Want to get out and be alone? Go somewhere where you can _talk_ to her.

  72. Cams come from minimum wage cinema employees, duh by netsavior · · Score: 1

    If you pay someone 7 dollars an hour to sweep popcorn, and that someone owns a tripod.. that someone has uniquely private access to a theater... private enough that they can run a sound cable from the projection booth to said tripod.

    Give that same employee access to night vision goggles, and you will prevent no piracy at all.

    I mean, how bullet-proof is any plan that involves compelling a bunch of minimum wage employees to ensure that 1 billion in profits isn't whittled down to 999 million in profits? (not that there is any proof piracy actually costs studios money)

  73. "The higher risk it is" by Kartu · · Score: 1

    In other words they seriously think that the anticipated big budget movies that are poised to make hundreds of millions $ will suddenly make even (significantly) more, if they don't let some dudes record it on their smartphone and share via torrent, by equiping cinema personel with night vision googles.

    That's quite pragmatic.

  74. Movie theater across the UK by Ryan+McLaughlin · · Score: 1

    So... only one Movie theater is doing this, or there is only one Movie Theater that span the entire UK?

  75. Re:How do they know it's a camera in the popcorn b by Toshito · · Score: 1

    So the staff member finds a stiff member?

    --
    Try it! Library of Babel
  76. Don't care either way by Thraxy · · Score: 1

    I don't go to the movies anymore. Last few times I've gone I've wished I was back home before the 25-30 minutes of ads were done. It costs around $20 to buy a movie ticket here, so I don't see why they need to waste my time with these ads. If they can't afford to show the movies without the ads, then maybe they should just stop having cinemas. I'm perfectly happy watching movies from the comfort of my home, using whatever streaming service is all the rage. I'll microwave some popcorn and spread it out all over the sofa and pour soda under my feet for that authentic cinema feel. Maybe even invite a really tall friend over to sit in front of me and partially block out the screen.

  77. yet the films are more unlocked than advertised by HongPong · · Score: 1

    The world of decryption keys in film world is interesting . DCP films have decryption keys that work in a time window. http://indiedcp.com/digital-ci... ... they don't actually control how many times the film can be run. This means 'super restricted' digital prints can still get played overnight - and they definitely are.

    These nightvision things are to keep management happy - they have thick contracts with studios so 'security theater' in the theater has to be applied.

    I was in a early screening movie that had studio security parading around watching people with the scopes after collecting cell phones and wanding people, it was redonk especially since the key was still unlocked overnight - and the movie had a rebellious theme but more physical security than any other.

    To deter inside jobs there is definitely watermarking now, it's hard to spot but actually sometimes you can, may be a series of dots around a corner rather than some more carefully hidden signal. (and there may be audio watermarking too, but i think with two clean audio captures from different sites you could diff it out).

  78. Why bother? by p51d007 · · Score: 1

    99% of the crap on the big screen today isn't worth the money. Take a husband, wife, and the typical 2 children. Gas to and back, tickets, minimum 10 bucks each (unless you go to the early show) Say 7-8 bucks for the kids minimum. Popcorn, drinks, snacks (unless you cheat and bring your own 40-50 bucks. You are looking at anywhere between 80-120 bucks easy. Once a movie is released, wait a few weeks, download a REAL image of the movie not that "filmed in a theater" crap, or, just wait a month or two for it to show up on netflix as a legit source, watch it for 10 bucks, make your own snacks. No hassle.

  79. Re:Detecting employees by Technician · · Score: 1

    Detecting an employee cam is not really all that difficult if done from the booth. Due to the geometry of the projected image on the screen, keystone distortion gives a combination of projection angle and viewer angle. Modern digital projectors have keystone correction. Old film projectors simply had aperture plates. Here is the difference.

    An aperture plate is inserted into the projector to mask the sides and top and bottom of the projection beam to fit the screen. It provided no keystone correction. If a monitor test grid were projected, it would have keystone distortion with the lines narrow at the top due to the above audience projection angle. This applied to all 35mm and 70mm film projection. In short throw theatres, some barrel distortion is also introduced.

    In digital projection, keystone distortion can be adjusted out by setting up the projector with a test pattern to make the geometry correct even with off axis projection.

    No consumer phone that I know of has keystone correction for off axis correction of a film projected onto a flat screen. This will reveal the camera location when compared to the original projected image.

    Most modern films are Digital, especially blockbusters. This means in most cases the projector has been professionally aligned to the screen with Keystone correction. With this knowledge, any keystone distortion and barrel distortion would be from the angle and distance of the camera from the flat projection surface. Shots taken from above the audience are taken from the projection booth.

    With watermarking, a stray dot, blip, extra few frames between scenes, or other subtle alterations can identify which movie screen showed which film at what time. From there forensics can identify the general location in the theatre the cam was deployed. It's easy enough to identify a booth recording from the keystone.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  80. Screener DVDs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The real issue is studios giving out pre-release copies of their films to hundreds of people.

  81. Seems foolproof by renderhead · · Score: 1

    After all, theatre employees are so highly paid that movie pirates would *never* be able to bribe one to look the other way with their night vision goggles.

    --
    I wish that my inferiority complex were as good as yours.

    -RenderHead

  82. Protect the massive profits! by N0Man74 · · Score: 1

    ...in order to help crack down on movie piracy ahead of the release of potential box office smashes...

    "The bigger the film and the more anticipated it is, the higher-risk it is."

    So, the most watched and profitable movies are the ones that need the most protection?

    I suppose it's worth pissing off a few consumers to make those massive profits into massiver profits.

  83. Infrared LED's by nuckfuts · · Score: 1

    Why don't they just aim a bunch of infrared LED's at the audience? Wouldn't that mess with the recording devices without the audience noticing?

    Of course, the IR couldn't be too powerful, or you could damage people's eyes. In a darkened theatre their pupils would be dilated, and IR does not cause the pupils to contract like visible light.

  84. One more reason to not give these people ur money by easyTree · · Score: 1

    Thanks for letting us know how you feel about your customers.

  85. Subject line by easyTree · · Score: 1

    Kieron Sharp, director general of the Federation Against Copyright Theft (FACT), said:

    The more we adopt security-theatre methods, the more it appears that our product is worth something.

  86. No too good movies anyway ... by flex941 · · Score: 1

    ... so if I can't be bothered to go to cinema (because unable to convince myself about the movie worth this treatment) I'm perfectly happy to wait for WEB-DL or BluRay rip.

  87. Re:The Stupid Brits can do what they want... but.. by Schnapple · · Score: 1
    One edge case might be that a CAM copy is the only copy of what was shown in the theater, so it's potentially interesting to film aficionados should the movie be changed/edited before it hits home formats. Things like:
    • The censorship of certain scenes from Who Framed Roger Rabbit (the upskirt shot of Jessica Rabbit, the smoking habits of Baby Herman)
    • Scenes George Lucas removed or modified from the prequels
    • Spider-Man 2 being forced to remove the Red Cross logos from the hospital scenes (the Red Cross association doesn't want anyone to use red crosses in film as they believe it erodes the effectiveness of the logo in real war situations as a "don't shoot" deterrent)
    • Preserving the original framing - the film Avatar for example was shown in something other than 16:9 but the DVD/BR versions are all 16:9 to fill up television sets - they don't chop off the sides on home formats, they chopped off the top/bottom in theaters. Having a CAM version might be the only way to prove something is different.
    • The occasional movie that never makes it to home video for some holdup reason.

    Watching CAM rips as your primary movie source is inexplicable, but short scenes that get cut/changed are interesting in small doses.

  88. Re:How do they know it's a camera in the popcorn b by Scarletdown · · Score: 1

    I would imagine in that scenario, the one with his cock and balls poking up into the tub of popcorn would be doing it for the benefit of a girlfriend that may be enjoying the film with him.

    And considering the social handicap a typical Cheeto-fingered Neckbeard who would be likely to be the one doing a secret cam recording through a popcorn tub has, the odds that he would be trying to surprise a girlfriend instead of making a recording are simply astronomical.

    (And amusingly, as I reread this, I am hearing it perfectly in the voice of Sheldon Cooper from Big Bang Theory, with either Howard or Raj looking guiltily embarrassed.)

    --
    This space unintentionally left blank.
  89. Very old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They've been claiming on doing this for years... (But, as others have said, I believe that most of the piracy is from other means)

  90. Torrent is available to download a movie by jonbally7631 · · Score: 1

    What a really awesome thought to record a movie with goggles and take them to piracy and get the profit from it. Even they can copy them and release on illegal office. Security is necessary to protect the movie release. But not able to protect properly and safely. They recorded the movie in the hall and sell them the copy. Need to guard properly at hall. http://www.locksmithsinscottsd...

    1. Re:Torrent is available to download a movie by axlworldstore · · Score: 1

      That movie was so bore and i have get some tissue to spare some rain in my eyes.

  91. "James Bond is a big risk" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of course James Bond is a big risk. He's got a fucking license to kill. He's SUPPOSED to be a fucking big risk. You fucking fuckers. Fuck you.

  92. Re: Nobody cares about your home theater by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That added cost is why people just bring the screaming little shits with them....

  93. Re:How do they know it's a camera in the popcorn b by LessThanObvious · · Score: 1

    On that note, I'm concerned that knowing there is some wanker watching with spy goggles might interfere with a lady's willingness to fulfill the odd request for a mid-cinema blowjob.

  94. Re:how much is lost really? by DrVxD · · Score: 1

    Yes - but did you have to tell them?

    Now they'll be wanting us to have our memory erased after going to the theatre...

    --
    Not everything that can be measured matters; Not everything that matters can be measured.
  95. All movies are digital now by pebear · · Score: 1

    Since all movies are digital most of lots to the good pirated movies are taken somewhere in the production stream. You can even try to intercept the broadcast sent out from the studios to the movie theaters. So you don't end up getting people jumping up during the movie and you don't get flashes of light form cell phones. Really everyone has a cell phone and everyone has the abiltiy to make a copy on the screen but what I have heard and read most pirating is done somewhere along the production stream...

    --
    Paul E. Bahre
  96. I enjoy it. by Sir+Holo · · Score: 1

    I enjoy, after paying $15, sitting through 20 minutes of advertisements, having people put their feet on my head-rest. . . to be treated like a thief.

    I've been to a cinema once, perhaps twice, in the past 20 years for these reasons alone.

    Maybe they could sell buggy whips in the lobby?

  97. Incentive? by kmoser · · Score: 1

    What incentive do the theater owners and employees have to comply with this directive?