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DHS Detains Mayor of Stockton, CA, Forces Him To Hand Over His Passwords

schwit1 writes: Anthony Silva, the mayor of Stockton, California, recently went to China for a mayor's conference. On his return to San Francisco airport he was detained by Homeland Security, and then had his two laptops and his mobile phone confiscated. They refused to show him any sort of warrant (of course) and then refused to let him leave until he agreed to hand over his password.

399 comments

  1. America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    still has not won the *real* war on terror. The terror on 9/11 still inspires fear on the mind of Americans. So the real war is yet to be won.

    1. Re:America by rubycodez · · Score: 5, Insightful

      the real war of terror is waged by the United States Government, against the citizens. It is a success, fear being the motivator for giving up rights, privacy, freedom.

    2. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the real war of terror is waged by the United States Government, against the citizens. It is a success, fear being the motivator for giving up rights, privacy, freedom.

      Has the second amendment helped US citizens regain their "lost" freedom ?

    3. Re:America by rubycodez · · Score: 5, Insightful

      the war is psychological and the weapons are not physical, nor would the solution be

    4. Re:America by The+Real+Dr+John · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You got that right. The solution is to stop voting for psychopaths and sociopaths because this is what they do when they are in charge. Bernie is sounding better all the time.

      --
      A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
    5. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lmao... as if hes not also a wolf in sheeps clothing

    6. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      I'm sure that this person who has spent most of his life being a professional politician, will save us! He's totally different from all the other people who spent most of their lives being professional politicians. He said so on Twacegram+!

    7. Re:America by peragrin · · Score: 2

      Only psychopaths want to be president, just like how most ceos are psychopaths.

      You have to be a heartless psychopath to even get the job.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    8. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You got that right. The solution is to stop voting for psychopaths and sociopaths because this is what they do when they are in charge. Bernie is sounding better all the time.

      Please mod the parent up as funny. It's irony so strong that it's in danger of breaking several air pollution laws.

    9. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Explain

    10. Re: America by Lokni · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well yeah. Because he is actually consistent on his positions. What he is saying today is the same thing he has been saying for 40 years. What politician does that? Could it be an honest one? Considering that Bernie Sanders does not fit into any of the patterns that typical politicians do (flip-flopping positions with the wind, lots of corporate donation dollars, questionable positions) i do actually see him as being different than all the other people who spent their lives being professional politicians.

    11. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm sure that this person who has spent most of his life being a professional politician, will save us! He's totally different from all the other people who spent most of their lives being professional politicians. He said so on Twacegram+!

      Actually, one of these days, it will. A mayor isn't important enough, but a nominee for a Justice of the Supreme Court Justice. The Video Privacy Protection Act specifically protects video tape rental/sale records at a higher level of confidentiality than other rental records. The sole reason it exists is that when Robert Bork's totally boring video rental history was leaked during his 1987 nomination hearings, Congress realized that by extension, its porn habits, VHS being pretty much the only way porn could be accessed at the time, could also be just as easily bought and sold.

      The surest way to gain privacy protections is to wait for the privacy of a high-ranking politician to be invaded. When it becomes a problem that makes our rulers' careers more difficult to manage, it becomes worthy of protection.

    12. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Voter pressure can only be used to force government to take actions that it doesn't want to take, like enforcing public accountability rules. You cannot vote good men into governance, you can only reign in the evil done by the bad men who always get the job.

      Even that requires a level of interest and agreement among the people that is rarely achieved. The government has to really piss people off before voters do anything impactful.

    13. Re:America by Stormwatch · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The war is over. The terrorists won.

    14. Re: America by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well yeah. Because he is actually consistent on his positions. What he is saying today is the same thing he has been saying for 40 years.

      Indeed. Bernie voted against the Patriot Act, against the DMCA, against the Iraq War, etc. He has taken principled stands against the legislation that has led to the erosion of civil liberties. Hillary was on the opposite side on all these issues, and only flip-flopped after it became clear that her earlier stance was unpopular.

      I don't plan to vote for Bernie, because I think he would lead the economy off a cliff, but nonetheless, I admire his integrity.

    15. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You try running for office without being a sociopath.

    16. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and the fascist you plan to vote for won't lead us off a cliff? will you be voting?

    17. Re: America by kilodelta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Vis a vis leading the economy off a cliff - there are Presidents who know how to inspire the economy. I suspect Bernie Sanders would be one of them. I mean do you actually think Hillary Clinton or any of the clown car posse of Republicans would do a better job?

    18. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Limberbutt McCubbins.

    19. Re: America by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      The president has little influence on the economy, despite indications to the contrary. Everything is pretty much managed by the Federal reserve system.

    20. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the real war of terror is waged by the United States Government, against the citizens. It is a success, fear being the motivator for giving up rights, privacy, freedom.

      webofnaija.com hmm

    21. Re:America by Jawnn · · Score: 2

      still has not won the *real* war on terror. The terror on 9/11 still inspires fear on the mind of Americans. So the real war is yet to be won.

      Whoever modded parent off-topic is an idiot and has completely failed to grasp why this is such a huge issue. To AC, well said sir. You have summed it up nicely. We have allowed the actions of a few thugs, fourteen years ago, to change our way of life and compromise some of our nation's core principles. The terrorists are winning.

    22. Re: America by HotNeedleOfInquiry · · Score: 1

      Well said. The FAA has enforced it's regulations on pilots for years without giving the pilots any significant recourse or constitutional rights. Until Sen. James M. Inhofe got busted for landing on a closed runway. He was successful at getting the "Pilot's Bill of Rights" passed which established sensible burdens of proof and defendant's rights for pilots charged with violating regulations. Inhofe is considered to be something of an idiot among pilots for landing on the closed runway, but he's also considered "our idiot" if you catch my meaning.

      --
      "Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
    23. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Posting as an AC here, because I know some will view this as troll bait, but it is relevant:

      With $100,000 in costs, a few men willing to lose their lives, and some planning, bin Laden managed to bring down the most successful and respected nation on the planet. Self-hatred, fear, paranoid, witch hunts, and general lunacy have taken the US from its pinnacle to a country that is a laughingstock among nations.

      With this in mind, as a general, bin Laden can be argued to be the best general in two centuries. Russia couldn't drive wedges between the US and Europe, even when the Bear had troops on every continent. Germany couldn't do this during WWII, even though for a few years, they actually brought peace to the Middle East. bin Laden broke the spirit of the US people, and now they are cowed and bickering with politicians taking advantage of their fears.

      The sad thing? Now, because the paths are in place to disseminate propaganda of fear, this mechanism is still in place. Bad guys are after you, the US people suck and don't deserve jobs, day after day. In reality, we have a impotent President, a Congress that needs the pope to not just give a blessing, but an exorcism, and absolutely no solutions for any issues other than "blame the left/right, blame the gun-grabbers/ammosexuals, vote dem/rep next time." Blame doesn't solve jack shit, and pissing contests like this only leave both sides smelling horrifically.

      I pray that the US gets a Churchill next election and not another Chamberlain.

    24. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but only if the voters aren't stupid and scared.

      There's also the issue of choices. We had a mayor that consistently took positions on things. He'd stick with 1/3 of the voters on one issue and and 1/3 of the voters on another issue. He wound up being voted out of office in the primary. One of the huge problems with democracy is that there's more than one issue at any given time. Taking a correct stance can get you voted out of office as quickly as taking an incorrect one. Which is why the pandering happens.

      Unfortunately, pandering to people that are too stupid to vote for their own self interests because they want to prove that they're not stupid breaks things just as badly as lobbying does.

    25. Re: America by haruchai · · Score: 1

      I also admire that he's managed to rise so high despite his principled stands.
      I can't point to a lot of truly honest politicians in my lifetime and almost none who've risen to the Senate.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    26. Re:America by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      Bernie is sounding better all the time.

      What is Bernie's plan for the TSA?

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    27. Re:America by garbut · · Score: 1

      You have to be a heartless psychopath to even get the job.

      Agreed and you have to be in collusion with all the other powerful psychopaths as well.

      --
      Oh, should I have sugar-coated that?
    28. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Pres. also nominates the Sec of Treasury, who *does* influence monetary policy on a non-trivial plane

    29. Re:America by houstonbofh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What is the point of very good karma, if you do not risk it occasionally saying what needs to be said? I do that often. I have a few -1s, and if you read them, thay are just against the popular view. But sometimes, it actually makes it through like your post did. Well said.

    30. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He can do nothing without voter support.

      I wish more voter support would be levied against the TSA. I am angry at my fellow Americans for putting up with it, and not demanding it be shut down. Because of them, I must put up with it as well.

      Lazy bastards.

    31. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That story makes no sense.

    32. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Vis a vis leading the economy off a cliff - there are Presidents who know how to inspire the economy.
      I suspect Bernie Sanders would over-regulate the economy.

      There, fixed it for you.
      It appears that you haven't heard anything that Bernie has said over the years.

    33. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      (Posting as anon for obvious reasons.)

      A not-so-minor nitpick: bin Laden didn't bring the US down - the people already bent on bringing the US down simply used bin Laden's activities as an excuse to accelerate the schedule.

    34. Re: America by pepty · · Score: 1

      The federal reserve sets monetary policy. The President decides whether the economy would best be served by going to the moon, a science fiction based arms race, or a perpetual war in the mid east. At least in the past that was true, now a president's legacy is determined by whether Congress will work with them or spend the entire term entirely focused on how to not work with them. Unfortunately, I think Sanders would wield even less influence over Congress than HRC.

    35. Re: America by judoguy · · Score: 1

      Did you vote for Ron Paul?

      --
      Peace is easy to achieve, just surrender. Liberty is much harder get/keep.
    36. Re: America by pepty · · Score: 1

      The surest way to gain privacy protections is to wait for the privacy of a high-ranking politician to be invaded. When it becomes a problem that makes our rulers' careers more difficult to manage, it becomes worthy of protection.

      Except now Congress ensures those new protections are based on the speech or debate clause or national security - so the protections apply only to them.

    37. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PI pray that the US gets a Churchill next election and not another Chamberlain.

      President Trump would terrorise ISIS et. al. in a heartbeat. Any other person in the Oval Office would kiss the ring of their Muslin overlords.

    38. Re:America by pepty · · Score: 0

      I'd say the best general was probably Cheney or whichever aide decided to fly 20 campaign workers from DC to Florida to engage in a bit of "activism" - which shut down the recount and stole the presidency for Bush.

    39. Re:America by Paleolibertarian · · Score: 1

      Has the second amendment helped US citizens regain their "lost" freedom ?

      Not yet.

    40. Re:America by Lakitu · · Score: 0

      With this in mind, as a general, bin Laden can be argued to be the best general in two centuries. Russia couldn't drive wedges between the US and Europe, even when the Bear had troops on every continent. Germany couldn't do this during WWII, even though for a few years, they actually brought peace to the Middle East. bin Laden broke the spirit of the US people, and now they are cowed and bickering with politicians taking advantage of their fears.

      This is one of the most ignorant things I've read in quite a while.

      A symptom of the broken spirit of the American people is bickering politicians?

      The USSR and USA literally splitting Europe in half with a giant wedge right down the middle didn't involve driving any wedges?

      Nazi Germany brought peace to the Middle East during World War 2?

      And your hope for all of this -- the thing that will solve the fear, paranoia, and the militancy of witch hunts -- is a Winston Churchill???????????? Winston "we should have invaded Russia in 1919 to strangle communism in the cradle" Churchill? Winston "we should have invaded Germany in 1932 to stop them from rearmng" Churchill? Winston "let's gas the Kurds" Churchill? Winston "I've invaded more Middle Eastern countries than the Bush family" Churchill? Winston "we shall never surrender, except for giving away half of Europe to Stalin" Churchill? Winston "I'm the wedgiest wedge wedge wedge the world has ever wedged" Churchill?

      The only hope coming from this post is that the poster is a teenager who knows nothing about history.

    41. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I tend to agree except for one thing: All of this has gotten out of hand due to Obama and his ties to radical Islam . Osama did get the boat moving, but Obama has run with it and used his power to amplify everything that separates us. With a real president in office and not a secret, unofficial operative of the opposition, i think the direction could have been reversed.

    42. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Nice try. No cigar.

      The elites, formerly known in Europe as the Aristocracy, are reasserting their dominance over society. Your Bin Laden story is but a diversion, one of many, the story is Globilization. The American, Russian, South American, European and Asian elites are becoming one World elite. Nations, like religions, have become only useful for controlling little people. Free trade agreements have removed borders for money. TTIP is supposed to be the next step in putting the nation states out of power, and corporate tribunals (and their overlords) into power.

      You're focusing on the wrong game.

    43. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As soon as all the world's citizens stop coming over here in droves we might do that.

    44. Re:America by pepty · · Score: 1

      Not buthurt - ratfuckers gonna ratfuck and all. More pissed at Gore for wimping out. Plus the transition from Clinton to Gore wouldn't have involved the White House actively ignoring intelligence on Al Qaeda from Clinton appointees - which could have negated the whole Bin Laden Great General moment.

    45. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Keep this up, we'll get Adolf Hitler.

    46. Re:America by Barny · · Score: 1

      Actually a good, well-focused psychopath would likely do a much better job of it than the people you have been voting in.

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
    47. Re: America by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      "The president has little influence on the economy"

      Let's test your theory. George W. Bush fabricated a story of WMDs in Iraq and got us to go to war with Saddam. Unless you can show that the presence or absence of military engagement / war doesn't substantially effect the economy, I'm going to say your theory doesn't hold water at all.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    48. Re:America by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Ironically, you have said something important, but like so many you are afraid to say it even on Slashdot. I agree with what you said, but also would point out that it was possible because of people like you who know what the truth, but are afraid to say it.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    49. Re:America by The+Real+Dr+John · · Score: 1

      I love it when people advocate psychopaths running things, as opposed to rational, well intentioned people who care about other people. It it so Merican. Yee Haw!

      --
      A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
    50. Re:America by Foobar+of+Borg · · Score: 1

      That story makes no sense.

      It made perfect sense to me. It's not his fault you are a drooling idiot.

    51. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't one of the attributes you want in a politician a "flip flop" position based on popular opinion ? Isn't that the point of a democracy, representing popular opinion?

    52. Re:America by Barny · · Score: 1

      Not 'Merican' at all. But I know a few high-functioning psychopaths and a little lack of fear/anxiety might be a good change for your leaders.

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
    53. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The option is still available.

    54. Re: America by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      Reagan made many "vague comments" about aliens and claimed he and his pilot chased one when he was Governor of CA.; IMHO I think "Star Wars" was actually more for defense from an invasion than to knock down missiles. I doubt it would have worked to do either goal; it's only now that we are developing lasers powerful enough to do anything to a distant flying object. Reagan also talked about "space shuttles" that could transport "300 people", this was back in the 80's...

      If I was Sanders, and actually got elected, I would just do whatever I could via "executive action" if Congress blocked me. Might as well live up to that whole "socialist dictator" meme the GOP is sticking you with! I don't know just how far the POTUS could push those, but I think some of his ideas (prison reform, federal student loans) could be shaken up just by canceling contracts, Executive branch policy changes, etc.

    55. Re: America by crankyspice · · Score: 0

      I don't get the issue with TSA. They suck, yeah, but they're easily avoided, just fly yourself. I fly at least weekly and haven't had an interaction with TSA in at least 4 years. You can pick up a plane for about the price of a nice Honda (my low hours PA-28-140, STC upgraded to a 180 HP engine and (337'd) constant speed prop, was under $20K)...

      --
      geek. lawyer.
    56. Re: America by DanielRavenNest · · Score: 5, Informative

      > IMHO I think "Star Wars" was actually more for defense from an invasion than to knock down missiles. I doubt it would have worked to do either goal; it's only now that we are developing lasers powerful enough to do anything to a distant flying object.

      I worked on the Strategic Defense Initiative (the proper name for the project) in the 1980's. It was most certainly for knocking down missiles, all the math depended on it. As far as working or not, very few people understand the concept of "layered defense". SDI had 7 layers: two Boost Phase intercepts, three Midcourse intercepts, and High and Low terminal intercepts. Each layer only has to deal with what the previous layer missed. Assume, because the actual numbers were classified and I don't remember them after 30 years, that each layer is 60% effective, meaning 40% of warheads get through to the next layer. With 7 layers, only one in 610 warheads hits their targets. That kind of number is "survivable". Japan survived two warheads, and the US could survive about 15 or 20, due to being a larger country. This breaks the "Mutually Assured Destruction" concept, because the US would have plenty of undamaged assets to shoot back with.

      But you don't need a fully functioning missile defense to apply leverage to the Russians. If you have only two functioning layers, and they are only 40% effective each, only 36% of Russian warheads get through. They have to build 2.78 times as many warheads to destroy their priority target list. The more functioning layers, and the higher their effectiveness, the worse their targeting problem gets, rapidly. The Russians may be deficient in some ways, but they had plenty of good mathematicians. They could see the threat of a layered defense, and they could not afford to build enough missiles to counter it. They could also not build their own SDI system, because Western technology was generally more advanced. So coming to the negotiating table to reduce missile counts was the only viable option, which is exactly what they did in 1991. In that sense, the SDI program helped win the Cold War.

      Whether Reagan himself had a technical understanding of the project was irrelevant. That was between DARPA, Congress, and the defense contractors. As a former actor who did westerns, his job was making speeches other people wrote, and looking tough to the Russians. He was a figurehead for the nation. Tons of smart people did the real work.

      Getting back to your lasers, we had two kinds as *advanced options* in SDI, airborne and space-based. Airborne were a boost phase system, designed to shoot at ICBMs while the rocket was still firing. That makes them an easy target, rockets have huge thermal signatures for targeting. But also they are fragile. Heat the nozzle of a rocket a few hundred degrees while operating, and it can easily fail, same for shock heating part of the fuel tanks. You don't have to melt them, just cause a gas explosion as the fuel boils, it does the rest. Space-based lasers were upper boost phase or early midcourse. They could get a clearer shot when the rocket was in the upper atmosphere, or starting on the ballistic trajectory. Physically the rocket was approaching the same altitude as the laser, so the distance was smaller. Both involved megawatt class lasers based on chemical combustion energy.

      But remember, these were not the baseline, they were advanced options. And the US was making credible progress in laser technology. So it was not a matter of having them ready to use. It was a matter of the Russians believing the nation that beat them to the Moon could develop high powered laser weapons if they put their minds to it. After the Strategic Arms treaties were signed, the push to develop SDI technologies ended, so they have piddled along for the last few decades, and battlefield lasers and railguns are now entering field use. There was no rush because there was no enemy threatening enough.

    57. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OP said "besides military action" which obviously has dramatic economic impact. But the reference was made toward enhancing the domestic economy without spending solely on the military industrial complex.

    58. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In order to lead the economy off a cliff, the economy has to be on a cliff to begin with. Ours is in a deep, deep hole -- oh, unless you're rich.

    59. Re: America by mikeabbott420 · · Score: 1

      That may not be an entirely adequate solution for visiting China the way this mayor did.

      --
      This program was made possible by a grant from the Ultra-Humanite, and viewers like you.
    60. Re: America by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Yeah, let me know when you can do SF to NY

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    61. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think Rand Paul has a better chance to inspire the economy than any other candidate. Of course a President doesn't actually make the laws and can just suggest a budget.

    62. Re: America by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure if you can read, but the person to whom I replied said no such thing.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    63. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The federal reserve sets monetary policy.

      A privately owned bank.

    64. Re:America by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      the war is psychological and the weapons are not physical, nor would the solution be

      Whilst I agree that your sentiment is an accurate representation of the symptoms, I think the actual characterization is that the war is conducted by changing the laws and modifying the intents of the bill of rights. In essence the war is one of *law* where the 1st, 4th, 5th (possibly the 6th and 8th) constitutional amendments have essentially been repealed, effectively suspending due process - exampled here a blatant 4th amendment violation for an elected official. One only has to read the appropriate articles to find that laws that are blatantly unconstitutional are passed with no resistance because both major political parties in the US are the left and right wing of the same political party. Otherwise Obama would have restored due process removed by Bush.

      America is in a constitutional crisis *right now*, these are the times Franklin was warning the American people about with 'a despotic people only fit for rule by a despotic government', yet for all the patriotic vitriol we see complacency winning time and again. The genius of American aristocracy is that it is concealed from the people so they can conduct their affairs with little or no interference whilst propagating the illusion that power rests with the free people.

      This is not an issue of left or right politics, it's an issue of democracy and how long the American people can tolerate living in a police state before dealing with her domestic enemies.

      Of course mod me into oblivion because this cuts through the illusion that any of us a free at all.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    65. Re: America by spauldo · · Score: 1

      Inhofe is considered to be something of an idiot among pilots

      Inhofe is considered to be something of an idiot by anyone who isn't a right wing fundamentalist. Unfortunately, there's a lot of those here in Oklahoma.

      I'd vote against him, but no Republican would run against him, and no Democrat would win.

      --
      Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach either, do tech support.
    66. Re:America by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Having trouble detecting psychopaths, easy solution test them all when they run and make the results public. Due to genetic conditions psychopaths fail many directly measurable emotional response tests, they absolutely can not fake it. Doing that test will solve many problems especially when it is extended out to other government employee like police officers, intelligence services operatives and analysts, doctors, nurses and teachers.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    67. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Being "rich" in a world of poor and starving people is not as "comfortable" and desiderable as you may think. You end up like being a sheep in a woods full of hungry (and angry) wolves, how could this probably end?

    68. Re:America by MrKaos · · Score: 2

      But I know a few high-functioning psychopaths

      No you don't. You've never encountered a psychopath or you would never make such a suggestion. They were probably Narcissists, the only one's self-absorbed enough to make such a boast and they are probably only competent in convincing you of what they wanted you to believe.

      There is nothing about the lack of empathy in a person that makes them in any way, shape or, form fit for any position where they have *any* authority higher than a parking officer.

      Any slight detection of this form of mental dis-function should be automatic disqualification from any role resembling leadership. They simply do to much damage. "High-functioning psychopath" is an oxymoron and anyone misfortunate enough to encounter one would only suggest escaping these "people" at any opportunity.

      We've already seen what they do when they have absolute power and it is more reasonable that they remain installed in power now, that that is why the world is in such bad shape and, that they should be removed as quickly as possible.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    69. Re:America by Megol · · Score: 1

      Are you talking about the Voight Kampff test?

    70. Re:America by The+Real+Dr+John · · Score: 2

      Thanks for setting Barny straight on this. As a neuroscientist I can guarantee that no one in their right mind wants a psychopath or sociopath in charge of anything. Unfortunately they are attracted to positions of power from where they can do whatever they want to the rest of us.

      Like I said in the beginning, Bernie is sounding better every time one of the other candidates opens their mouth.

      --
      A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
    71. Re: America by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Having Bush on vacation for two terms while the previous moves designed to protect the economy were stripped away seemed to have a lot more of a poor influence on the economy than if there was a sitting President who was paying attention.

    72. Re: America by dbIII · · Score: 1

      It was all useless bullshit because the USSR was run by aged leaders who operated on the idea that they could keep going after serious damage just like they did in WWII. They may have been totally wrong, but either way they just ignored the Star Wars idea and just kept cranking out the same warheads and the same missiles at a fraction of the cost of Star Wars (even with the vast number produced by the end) with the idea that something would get through and a damaged USSR could handle whatever it was hit with. If the USSR's economy had not already been an utter basket case before Reagan even started his term the consequences of Reagan's moves to escalate the cold war could have been dire.

    73. Re:America by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      I don't have your qualification, however I've encountered them and found they destroy everything. I hope organizations recognize how damaging they are and take steps to exclude them.

      I could only see a Narcissist or Psychopath thinking that it would be a good idea. In my experiences they have very little competence that is reliable enough to offset the damage they cause.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    74. Re: America by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      No, I want them to already have values which align with my own.

      What you're advocating is a politician who's corrupt and votes for legislation that's against my own interests (like the DMCA, Iraq War, etc.), and then only changes course somewhat after he/she finds out that position is too unpopular, so they change their rhetoric somewhat to try to appeal to the voters and keep getting re-elected. Meanwhile, the shitty legislation has already been passed, and they're not doing anything to repeal it.

      The point of a democracy isn't to elect someone who will do the bare minimum to get re-elected, while passing as much stuff as they can for their corporate benefactors without pissing off their constituents too much. The point of a representative democracy is to elect candidates who share your own values, so that they can spend their time studying the issues in-depth and making sound decisions on them, because they may come up with a different decision after studying the issue for weeks or months than you would after reading some slanted "news" article for 1 minute.

    75. Re: America by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      No. The secretary of the treasury that congress approves influences monetary policy on a non-trivial plane.

      Again: The president is effectively Suggester-In-Chief for domestic matters.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    76. Re:America by Leofcwen · · Score: 0

      Bernie Sanders in the US, just like Robyn Corbyn here in the UK oppose private property rights and support slavery, as long as the slave owners/controllers are the state. The bigger and more intrusive the state becomes the less free and poorer the people become as a result.

    77. Re: America by mschwanke97402 · · Score: 2

      "I don't plan to vote for Bernie, because I think he would lead the economy off a cliff"

      You mean like Bush II and his Big Money cronies did in 2008?

      There is some evidence that shows liberals policies of spreading the wealth around some actually make for a better economy than conservative policies to cut spending, especially on social programs, only to use the savings to cut taxes mainly for the very wealthy.

    78. Re: America by Leofcwen · · Score: 1

      How many are saying that about you?

    79. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      forgive me but given the CEP for radar at the intercept layer is > 4 MILES directed energy as well as kenetic kill is ZERO percent. and of course we know that distance / resolution issue is physics (specifically, Sampling theory and the Nyquist limit) and can NOT be repaired thus, Star Wars was a fraud from day one.

    80. Re:America by The+Real+Dr+John · · Score: 2

      I assume you are rich and paranoid of losing some of your control over others, and you fear being taxed at a more equitable rate. Otherwise, if you are a working person, you are delusional. Is Norway a slavery state? You're comment is absurd in the extreme. It is absurd statements like yours that will help those sitting on the fence to realize that the people in charge in many countries now are irrational, greedy, indifferent and belligerent.

      Bernie Sanders opposes private property? You are either lying, or ignorant. Find me a quote from Senator Sanders that indicates he is not in favor of private property.

      --
      A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
    81. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Changing your opinions based upon the real desires of your constituents may be warranted, flip flopping due to outside influences, read $$$, is not. That, I think, was the point.

    82. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're stupid.

    83. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bull. In fact, the Russians were delighted with Star Wars, since that meant we would lose the economic competitions
      As for Laser / Maser / Kinetic kill vehicles, WHAT IS THE CEP intrinsic in a manuvering boost engine 1/3 of the world away? The Nyquist limit of pulse / response is 400 YARDS. Your kill probabilty never exceeds 10% nor ever will no matter how many backups you use.
      Thus the compete failure of the Patriot as documented by the GAO
        and the utter lack of hard target, unannounced launch kills EVEN AFTER 31 YEARS!!
      Your time at Star Wars was spent selling watered stock to a fat market.

    84. Re:America by ls671 · · Score: 1

      I agree, Bernie Ecclestone for president!

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    85. Re: America by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      The US is actually a republic, not a democracy. Our system is designed for us to have a say that is tempered by the opinions of, hopefully, more knowledgeable and intelligent people.
      Whether it actually works that way, and whether the system is a paternalistic trap set up by slaveholders, is up for debate.

    86. Re:America by Leofcwen · · Score: 1

      I see you resort to cheap shots with no basis in truth in order to try and force your baseless point through. My net worth is irrelevant to the issue. I have no desire to control the lives of others as you claim, just to be left alone by the government. My moral consistency is clear though, just as your belief in big government is equally clear. Here's a video[1] of him claiming the state has the right to steal, er, tax people at whatever level the government chooses. Politicians, especially those on the left love to use the term 'fair share' when it comes to how much people should be forced to pay. My point is that this is a very dishonest phrase to use because they always seem to leave it up to the listener to define what they think of as 'fair'. It seems to me that there are a few ways the term 'fair share' may be interpreted. Since everybody is equal in terms of inalienable rights and before the law (ie, a man or woman), everybody should pay the same flat fee, like a membership in a club. Another is a flat tax which would automatically mean everyone pays the same rate but those earning more would automatically pay more. Or, does fair share mean that those that earn more should be fleeced, er, taxed, at a higher rate than those earning less?

      Nobody that chooses the third option believes in equality or private property because they believe that 'the rich' have less of a right to keep their property than those with less. The first of the three options recognises that we're all equal but would also mean the government would not be able to get much done. Before the taxation level debate is settled though, we need to discuss and figure out what we want the government to do, how much of a role we want it to have in our lives, and how much we want to be involved with it.

      This seems to be something you don't seem to understand, or just not care about.

      [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    87. Re:America by fafalone · · Score: 1

      [...] even when the Bear had troops on every continent.

      The March On The Penguins?

    88. Re:America by The+Real+Dr+John · · Score: 1

      You are hysterically funny. Bernie Sanders is the only person who is going to tax people? You call it stealing because you don't want to contribute to the common good. Just admit it. You don't give a crap about the common good.

      --
      A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
    89. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The same Rand Paul who only drew 50 people at a rally in his home state?

    90. Re:America by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      "Has the second amendment helped US citizens regain their "lost" freedom ?"

      It certainly hasn't caused an accelerated loss of freedoms. Trust me, if the Second Amendment were compromised or limited further, the government would not be less able to take American's freedoms from them.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    91. Re: America by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      "there are Presidents who know how to inspire the economy. I suspect Bernie Sanders would be one of them."

      Wow. His proposals all seem so reasonable unless you consider they rely upon, indeed are, straw man arguments, based on flawed economics, and possibly violate our Constitution.

      "I mean do you actually think Hillary Clinton or any of the clown car posse of Republicans would do a better job?"

      That's not the question for me. I'm afraid of the job Bernie would do. Doing it better is even more dangerous to me. Literally.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    92. Re: America by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      And, BTW, the The Video Privacy Protection Act should be either interpreted or applied to email, cell phone records, etc.

      We solved most of these 'technological' a long time ago. Just need to remind our government of it.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    93. Re:America by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      You all keep using that word.

      I do not think that word means what you think it means.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    94. Re:America by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      "Bernie is sounding better all the time."

      Bernie is promising to use government to change the economy, etc.

      How is this different than the current crop of politicians?

      We've tried this for a while. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is indistinguishable from insanity.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    95. Re: America by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Not difficult, you just won't be able to do it in one flight as you'll have to stop for fuel.

    96. Re: America by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      And sleep for the night.......

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    97. Re:America by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      I pray that the US gets a Churchill next election and not another Chamberlain.

      In a testament to the efficacy of prayer, you're being given a choice of Donald Trump's wig, a deranged god-squad surgeon, and a number of non-entities. Oh, and the third round of a dynasty of hereditary presidents.

      Well done, Bin Laden!

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    98. Re:America by Leofcwen · · Score: 1

      Now it's your turn to attempt humour. Who said that it's only him that wants to tax people? Do try to show integrity here and focus. You have no idea what you're talking about, you just have your eyes focussed on the end goal 'free stuff', whether for you or others. You didn't even attempt to address my points in an intelligent way, just the typical leftist/liberal/statist emotionally charged arguments that unless one's willing to give up whatever the state deems necessary then one hates the poor. What utter nonsense.

    99. Re:America by The+Real+Dr+John · · Score: 1

      Yes, what you say is utter nonsense. Free stuff? You mean like all the corporations get with all their tax breaks, corporate welfare, off shore tax havens and breaking every rule on the books, like good ol' VW cheating on poisoning the air? You mean that kind of free stuff? You are a blowhard and everything you say sounds like it is straight out of Ayn Rand's fantasy book. Free stuff? You are the one who mentioned free stuff, not me. You put words in other people's mouths because you have no argument to make. You are a typical conservative who thinks that they are better than everyone else. Well, you can't even think straight, so you aren't better than everyone else.

      Corporations are the current worst actors in the world today. They are literally destroying the planet for profit. Blaming the world's problems on liberals is the stupidest thing I have heard anyone say in a long time. Conservatives and corporations control all major developed countries now except for a small handful. They are squeezing working people with austerity measures, low wages and no benefits while those in charge reap larger and larger profits for themselves. You have an extremely warped view of the world my friend. Have a great day.

      --
      A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
    100. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great post, thanks for sharing the info.

    101. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A republic is a form of democracy.

      Honestly, don't they teach you anything over there in those killing fields laughingly passed off as "schools" ?

      Humour me.....define "socialism".....this should be good for a laugh.

    102. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL...a heap of hungry and tired Third World Mexicans doesn't really count.

      Still, you're American....can't expect too much from you peasants.

      Been to the dentist lately ?...hah

    103. Re: America by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      https://www.1215.org/lawnotes/...

      My post was specifically in reference to the Electoral college.

    104. Re: America by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      Poor and starving people don't have the big weapons, you're confused who is the hunter and who is the prey

    105. Re: America by wyHunter · · Score: 1

      Yes, and as Obama is doing now.

    106. Re: America by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      You mean by repealing several laws about banks, insurance companies, and investment companies not intermingling and risking the entire banking sector? You mean signing what was basically the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 and the Bank Holding Company Act of 1956? You mean signing the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999? You mean stating publicly that protections enacted during the Great Depression to keep the financial system from collapsing again were outdated and he was happy to reach across party lines and sign Lindsey Graham's bill?

      Oh, that was Bill Clinton. But thanks for playing.

    107. Re: America by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      It was Clinton who signed the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act of 1999 and the Bank Holding Company Act of 1956.

    108. Re: America by countach · · Score: 1

      I don't think they thought they could just go on with life after a nuclear hit. Most of them after all would be in Moscow ground zero.

    109. Re: America by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I disagree. That WWII bury them in bodies attitude was still very much in place among the leadership in the 1980s as shown by how the USSR Afganistan campaign was run among other things. It looks like they expected to lose a lot but keep on going in the minor cities.
      Remember that Stalingrad lost more of it's population than Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

    110. Re: America by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Yes, but what did Bush do about it?
      Blame it on Clinton if you like (also an example of influence on the economy) but Bush could have done something between 2001 and 2008 when it all fell apart, which is my point about how having someone asleep at the wheel is a poor influence on the economy.

    111. Re:America by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      the real war of terror is waged by the United States Government, against the citizens. It is a success, fear being the motivator for giving up rights, privacy, freedom.

      Just out of interest, and certainly no disagreement here, how much of this do you think is driven by America's hidden aristocracy?

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    112. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been reading Slashdot for more than a decade and this is by far the single best reply I've ever seen. Thank you for validating another 10 years of reading for me, it's worth waiting for!

    113. Re: America by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      What has Obama done about it in seven years? Well, he has the SEC forcing health tests on the banks after the collapse happened, but would he have foreseen them any better than Bush?

      It's on Clinton and the Republican Congresscritters who wrote the bill.

      You see, despite people calling the President the Suggester in Chief, it's not the White House that drafts most legislation. These days it's not even the legislature that drafts most legislation. Think tanks, corporations, think tanks hired by corporations, nonprofits, nonprofits who are actually industry organizations for corporations, lobbyists, and other special interest groups write "model legislation". Then legislators at the state and federal level introduce it with minor changes (usually made by their staff) to committee, who then pass whatever the ruling party on the committee wants to the floor, where there's a vote on whether or not to allow the governor or President to consider signing it.

      When have Bush or Obama either one been presented a bill to sign that reverses what Clinton signed?

    114. Re: America by dbIII · · Score: 1

      but would he have foreseen them any better than Bush

      He turns up for work, so yes, most definitely - just as any other President before baby Bush would have.

      You see, despite people calling the President ...

      You see, despite people calling the CEO of GM the carmaker in chief, he doesn't actually weld up those chassis. Does that inform you of how idiotic some of the things written above are? It's not your fault since a lot has been spent on PR about how some sort of superhero at the top is needed instead of the head of a vast org, but without a working head the vast org gets manipulated just as it did under Clinton and baby Bush, under which it all fell apart eight years after Clinton had left the building.
      If Clinton alone was responsible why didn't it happen earlier and why didn't baby Bush take steps to deal with it on those days when he was not on vacation?

    115. Re: America by DeVilla · · Score: 1

      Thanks for this. My father worked on SDI, but at the time he was not allowed to talk about it. Never got the chance afterwards.

    116. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...inspire the economy...

      WTF is "inspire the economy"? I like Bernie far more than the other options (other than Rand Paul), but inane phrases like yours just makes his supporters look like "hope and change" morons.

    117. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jet fuel doesn't melt jets.

    118. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're referring to the Pentagon, the claim is that the jet vaporized on impact, which makes even less sense.

      The wings of a 757 can’t hit a concrete building at more than 500 mph without leaving a mark. And they certainly won’t be vaporized by exploding jet fuel. The heat was intense enough to vaporize the plane but not hot enough to set office furniture or books on fire?

      If a Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon, why didn’t the wings damage the building?

      The upper floors, which should have been hit by the tail section of the plane remained intact. Most windows were not even broken, although the upper floors did collapse about 20 minutes after the crash.

  2. The Gestapo would be proud by fisted · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Way to go, murica.

  3. Summary is flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    The Supreme Court has ruled that warrants are not required or needed at border checkpoints. Fix that wording now editors.

    1. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by dywolf · · Score: 1

      that doesnt contradict the summary

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    2. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by Gryle · · Score: 4, Informative

      What's really scary is that "the border" actually extends 100 into the US.

      --
      Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely sure about the universe - Einstein
    3. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why does that not encourage my confidence, oh yeah the Supreme Court also ruled that strip searching a 13 year old girl at school because she might have had some ibuprofen on her wasn't worthy of punishment.

    4. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, sir, Mr. McCain, sir.

    5. Re: Summary is flat out WRONG by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 3, Interesting

      SCOTUS ruled against Dred Scott, Japanese Americans and all motorists too (/Sitz/). They're still wrong and defending illegal actions. Remember, the People hold the supreme power and give the government limited powers through the Constitution. That government may claim exceptions to those limits, but that's no different than a five-year-old claiming he has no bed time. It's only true if you let him get away with it. Where theory and practice diverge is when the five year old has no problem shooting you in the face to enable his My Little Pony marathon.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    6. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      100 into the US? That's as many as ten tens into the US. And that's terrible!

    7. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That map has always bothered me. I live near Chicago and when I jump into Lake Michigan, I am most certainly NOT in Canada. So what gives? Can anyone explain this to me?

    8. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not so bad, could be 3200 into the US.

    9. Re: Summary is flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's because during the Bush administration, DC was flooded with Bible-over-Constitution type lawyers. A majority of the herd graduated from www.liberty.edu and www.phc.edu. There's a good documentary about it here: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com...

      Their belief is that both local and federal government should be solely guided by Christian beliefs. Any individual rights granted are subservient to those that are for the furthering of the Christian doctrine. The goal is to formulate a single groupthink that glorifies God and protects us from our enemies, individual rights have little use in that setting.

      The effects of this mass influx will take many generations to purge from the US government.

    10. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It also extends 100 miles from any road that connects to the border.

    11. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's really scary is that "the border" actually extends 100 into the US.

      Yeah, but you only have to worry about a customs search as it applies to your electronic devices when you cross the border going from/to another country. Even if the border only extended 10 miles into the country and you lived within that area, you still wouldn't have to worry about searches unless you crossed, or are going to cross over into another country.

      The 100 mile extension relates entirely to immigration enforcement and Customs are still limited to getting warrants and probable cause to search vehicles and dwellings.

    12. Re: Summary is flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The funny part of that is if they did actually push a christian agenda (Christ's agenda), then it wouldn't be terrible. We'd be fighting wars against starvation and poverty and mental illness. They'd accept people as the come and love them regardless of religion or sexual orientation or other beliefs.

      Instead they want to use their "Christian" beliefs to hate on others and push a decidedly not Christ like agenda.

    13. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      SCOTUS lacks the balls to tell the feds that the constitution applies to all of their activities no matter where they are. Crossing the border is a genuine reason to permit the government to go through our belongings. But, the moment you're past the border that should end. Obviously, it gets a tad complicated as you've got international airports that are themselves effectively borders, but once you're past the checkpoint, that should be it. If they want to do more checking, then they need to have a warrant or at least probable cause.

    14. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by NicBenjamin · · Score: 2

      Not in literal terms.

      But the summary specifically mentions no warrant, which means that the first reaction upon reading it is "What the fuck? That is so unconstitutional," when it should be "Why would they need a warrant at the border?" Silva does not seem to understand that searches at the border are, by definition, reasonable and therefore exempt from the Fourth Amendment's warrant requirement.

      What's interesting is the passwords bit. Mayor Silva can't be forced to testify against himself in Court, so no data they get from the devices could be used against him in Court; and he can't be the guy they're investigating.

    15. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by disposable60 · · Score: 1

      Expect an adjustment to include a 100-mile radius around any airport that has a Passport Control or customs facility.

      --
      You're looking for quotes? See my journal.
    16. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As usual, most Slashdotters choose to leap to conclusions instead opting for a more nuanced explanation. If you follow one or two of the links provided on the ACLU page the OP linked to, you'll see that the 100 mile extension is about immigration enforcement only. While things like checkpoints and private property incursions are likely extra-constitutional, the border patrol is still required to get warrants based on probable cause for searches of dwellings, cars, containers, etc. It's not the "unlimited" police power that regularly gets hyped here.

    17. Re: Summary is flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you keep bringing up that useless old constitution all the time? It doesn't mean shit today. You must really have been brainwashed as kids or something. Can you please just forget it and move on?

    18. Re: Summary is flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NO! Crossing the border is a legitimate reason for the US government to verify your identity and that you are a citizen or otherwise entitled to be here.

      Especially if you are a citizen, them checking your belongings to be sure you're not bringing in something illegal or harmful is mostly reasonable. Searching the contents of connected devices, which cannot possibly do physical harm to people and which could cross the border by themselves over the Internet is absolutely unreasonable and is nothing more than a fishing expedition.

      Remember kiddies, until the Supreme Court starts remembering what the Constitution is, when crossing any border of any country, put your data on an encrypted server somewhere and wipe your devices first so they have nothing on them and no connection to anything. If possible carry disposable devices and not your real stuff.

    19. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by houstonbofh · · Score: 0

      Tell that to the many people from California arrested at the border checkpoint in Texas with weed on I-10... These checkpoints are a bad thing, and most Americans live in that border zone. All of the largest cities do. (NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston...)

    20. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by sjames · · Score: 2

      Or he (and many here) disagree with the Supreme court on that.

    21. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by AJWM · · Score: 1

      The explanation is simple: the cartographer responsible for that map is a moron.

      You're right, the orange zone should extend to roughly mid-lake, except for Lake Michigan, which is entirely within the US. Chicago shouldn't even be part of that 100 mile zone (likewise Milwaukee and Green Bay) except that it has an international airport -- which would also mean there could be a 100 mile splotch of orange around pretty much every major city.

      (*It's possible that Great Lakes port cities are considered borders, even though they technically are not. Do Canadian and other international vessels have a right of passage on Lake Michigan? It certainly is not considered international waters.)

      --
      -- Alastair
    22. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, you won't get an argument from me that they're extra-legal and that local authorities have exceeded the original purpose of the checkpoints--to search for illegal immigrants--and turned it into a revenue producing scam along the same lines that police forces have abuse asset forfeiture laws that were originally supposed to be used to fight drug cartel networks. Fortunately, these warrantless searchs are limited to 25 miles from the border according to the ACLU factsheet. However, as this pertains to laptop searches, you still don't have much to worry about. Just don't leave your weed lying around in the RV when you travel through west Texas.

    23. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by lgw · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Silva does not seem to understand that searches at the border are, by definition, reasonable and therefore exempt from the Fourth Amendment's warrant requirement.

      What kind of totalitarian fascist drivel are you spouting there, man? Reasonable? Are you insane? The US Constitution as Amended is perfectly clear that you need a specific reason that a specific person might be guilty of something, as reviewed by a judge, before you can search them. There's no "unless we're scared" exception in there. I checked. Twice.

      * Border checks are usually an unconstitutional search.
      * TSA searches are clearly unconstitutional
      * Searches required before entering a courthouse: blatantly unconstitutional

      The only argument for any of these obviously unconstitutional searches is "but we're scared!" Tough shit: no such exception.

      But there I go again, pretending the UC Constitution is somehow relevant to the 21st century US. Silly me.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    24. Re: Summary is flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Especially if you are a citizen, them checking your belongings to be sure you're not bringing in something illegal or harmful is mostly reasonable. Searching the contents of connected devices, which cannot possibly do physical harm to people and which could cross the border by themselves over the Internet is absolutely unreasonable and is nothing more than a fishing expedition.

      Of course it's a fishing expedition, but let me play Devil's Advocate for a moment.

      It's currently illegal to import a fake Gucci handbag or a truckload of pirated Blu-Rays. Bootleg products affect the profits of US brands and the retailers that sell 'em. That's why we have laws against trademark infringement and copyright infringement.

      What's the difference between stopping a fake Gucci handbag (trademark-infringing product bought for personal use because someone wants to convince their friends they can pay $2000 for a handbag), a pirated Blu-Ray (bought for personal use off a rack in some Chinese alleyway because it's a long boring flight), and a collection of .torrented MKVs (that you .torrented while you were in the US because the Great Firewall is a pain in the ass, but you can't prove you didn't download them while you were in China.)

      I disagree with many of the principles beneath current IP law as much as anyone, but from CBP's point of view, they're all the same thing.

      The precedent I dread is that seizure becomes routine -- all dollar bills have traces of cocaine, and now we have asset forfeiture. All laptops probably have at least one pirated MP3 on 'em, and so now we have everyone's business documents being imaged at the border for analysis and retention - the IP violation being merely the pretext for a wider search.

    25. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      Dude,

      Case law is clear. Border control can search your ass on the border. That's why they can look for weed in your car at the border crossing. It's called the Border Search Exception.

      It's less clear then I thought about the ability to rifle through your electronic doohickeys, because the Ninth Circuit (which deal with cases from Cali), has ruled that the Feds need a a "reasonable suspicion" to read your damn hard drive, but they have failed to explain what that shit means. It's entirely possible they'll rule Mayor Silva is fucked if DHS turns up kiddy porn or something.

      Reread the Fourth. It's quite specific. The algorithm is that if a search or seizure is unreasonable, your right to privacy applies, and that right can only be over-ridden by warrant issued by the Courts. In the absence of an "unreasonable search or seizure" you have no Fourth Amendment rights.

    26. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      Crossing the border is a genuine reason to permit the government to go through our belongings.

      What, is crossing the border probable cause to a crime, and do they get a warrant before searching you? What grants them the authority to conduct these searches?

      Certainly, it is very convenient for them to do, but convenience is not the same as legality.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    27. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      Silva does not seem to understand that searches at the border are, by definition, reasonable and therefore exempt from the Fourth Amendment's warrant requirement.

      Another person who completely misunderstands the 4th amendment's use of "unreasonable."

      This is precisely what "reasonable" means in the context of the fourth:

      no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

      Anything else is unreasonable.

      Otherwise, we have to read the fourth as: "you only have to pay attention to these limitations if you want to", which is both absurd (not an uncommon result WRT the reasoning of lawyers and judges, sad to say) and directly contradicts the logos of the bill of rights in specific, and the constitution in general.

      Finally, just in general, the courts and congress often make very serious mistakes. Something being "law" (or in this case, judicial fiat masquerading as law) is no guarantee that it is sane, right, or constitutional. From slavery to women's rights to the drug war to all manner of straight-up violations of the clear intent of almost the entire the bill of rights, US citizens have been victims of the very worst kinds of sophistry at the hand of the legal system. Unconstitutional border searches fall directly into the class of unconstitutional governmental malfuckery.

      And before someone brings up article 3 awarding the judicial power over the constitution to SCOTUS, let's just take a quick look at what the judicial power is/

      Say there's a law that says, in plain English, "if you get caught with meth and are found guilty, you go to jail, no ifs, ands or buts." Can the judge say "I'll just ignore this"? No. The judge cannot do that. The judge must obey the law. The judge does not have the authority to say, "well, no, what this really means is if you have a "mess in your room", obviously congress has a lisp." The law applies to the judge. The judge does not apply to the law. That is the "judicial power": Enforcement. Likewise, SCOTUS's "judicial power" as awarded in article 3 is to enforce the constitution. Not to re-define it. So when, for instance, the constitution says "shall not infringe", and SCOTUS says "of course the government can infringe because we say so", that is not a legitimate exercise of "judicial power", that is simply intentional constitutional violation by traitorous government actors.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    28. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      Dude, I hope you never write ANY software, because you demonstrated a complete failure to understand a very simple algorithm:

      Reasonable is this: "no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

      Unreasonable is anything else

      Otherwise the whole fourth is optional based upon the opinion of the searcher which is both absurd and, ironically enough, unreasonable.

      The bill of rights is not a list of "well, if you think it's reasonable" items. It is a list of absolute restrictions on government power.

      Case (or any other kind of) law: Any law that is unconstitutional, no matter what level it is formulated at, is unauthorized. Because the constitution is what authorizes government, from the top down. It doesn't matter if said law is made by congress, or the result of some the sophistry of a judge. If the constitution says they aren't authorized to do that, then they fucking well aren't authorized to do that, and they are acting criminally and furthermore have discarded all personal honor, as they have sundered their oath of office.

      And as we all well know, "I was following orders" is not an acceptable excuse.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    29. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude,

      Case law is clear. Border control can search your ass on the border. That's why they can look for weed in your car at the border crossing. It's called the Border Search Exception.

      Oh, well, silly us for holding a different fucking opinion about it. I guess it's settled now once and for all.

    30. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      Let's quote the Amendment here:

      The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects,[a] against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

      Your right to be "secure in your persons, houses, papers, and effects" "shall not be violated" by "unreasonable searches and seizures". That right can be over-ridden, allowing the unreasonable search or seizure, by a warrant issued "upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

      Note that under your interpretation, if a police officer sees someone committing a rape he can't arrest the guy until somebody comes down from the station with a warrant because arrests are "seizures."

      The Courts actually have a lengthy list of types of search they consider reasonable. The upshot is that if they see the crime happen, they don't need a warrant to arrest the perp; if they're in a context or place where of course there're searches (like the border) they can search you; if they need to do shit now, without waiting 20 minutes for some guy to show up with paperwork, they can do shit now.

      Obviously, if you're too poor to afford a lawyer (as most young black men in the maw of the law are), you're not gonna get an evidentiary hearing so the police can make almost any bullshit interpretation of "reasonable search" blessed by the courts; but it's not unusual for the courts to ban evidence against people who aren't too poor.Also note this is precisely how the Founders intended it to work. They would actually open your mail, and read it, without a warrant.

    31. Re: Summary is flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The 10th Amendment says power vests in the Federal govt. first, on all the stated powers and the ancillaries to make those principalities work
      THEn the State gets a grab for whatever they want.
      THEN the people get whatever is left,,,,which is to say NOTHING

    32. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      Note that under your interpretation, if a police officer sees someone committing a rape he can't arrest the guy until somebody comes down from the station with a warrant because arrests are "seizures."

      No, arrests aren't seizures, and no, a police officer doesn't need a warrant to arrest someone. Constitutionally speaking, they do need a warrant to search and/or seize, just as the 4th amendment stipulates. Or else any government actor can do anything they want along these lines, as long as someone, somewhere, is willing to say "Well, hey, Cletus, that seems reasonable to me." In which case, as I have pointed out previously, there is no reason for the 4th amendment to exist, because it it utterly meaningless under such an interpretation.

      The Courts actually have a lengthy list of types of search they consider reasonable.

      Yes, the copious malfeasance of our many dishonorable, sophist, oath-violating judges has indeed become well entrenched. But as with slavery, women's rights, the drug war, and a huge host of other things, they are, as they very often are, completely, utterly, and without even the slightest shadow of a doubt, wrong.

      Keep in mind I am not talking about what the courts say here. I'm talking about the constitution itself. Which is above the courts, because it defines the government, under which the courts operate. No judge can legitimately say "yeah, but I don't think so, so no." Among (the many) other problems with that is that it is an abject violation of their oath, and as such disqualifies them from holding the position. Of course the reality is that the judges and lawyers have captured the system, and whatever they say goes -- but to claim that this is constitutionally valid is just ridiculous. It's simply the usual banana-republic / despotic rule-making: whatever we say, goes.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    33. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      Note that under your interpretation, if a police officer sees someone committing a rape he can't arrest the guy until somebody comes down from the station with a warrant because arrests are "seizures."

      No, arrests aren't seizures, and no, a police officer doesn't need a warrant to arrest someone. Constitutionally speaking, they do need a warrant to search and/or seize, just as the 4th amendment stipulates. Or else any government actor can do anything they want along these lines, as long as someone, somewhere, is willing to say "Well, hey, Cletus, that seems reasonable to me." In which case, as I have pointed out previously, there is no reason for the 4th amendment to exist, because it it utterly meaningless under such an interpretation.

      Check the dictionary. "An arrest constitutes a seizure under the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, and thus the procedures by which a person is arrested must comply with the protections guaranteed by the Fourth Amendment or the arrest will be invalidated and any evidence seized during the arrest or confessions made after the arrest will typically be suppressed."

      I believe I posted quite a bit of information on what, precisely, the Courts have decided constitutes "reasonable." It's got nothing to do with Cletus. People get searches thrown out all the time, assuming they're wealthy enough to have their own attorney.

      The Courts actually have a lengthy list of types of search they consider reasonable.

      Yes, the copious malfeasance of our many dishonorable, sophist, oath-violating judges has indeed become well entrenched. But as with slavery, women's rights, the drug war, and a huge host of other things, they are, as they very often are, completely, utterly, and without even the slightest shadow of a doubt, wrong.

      Keep in mind I am not talking about what the courts say here. I'm talking about the constitution itself. Which is above the courts, because it defines the government, under which the courts operate. No judge can legitimately say "yeah, but I don't think so, so no." Among (the many) other problems with that is that it is an abject violation of their oath, and as such disqualifies them from holding the position. Of course the reality is that the judges and lawyers have captured the system, and whatever they say goes -- but to claim that this is constitutionally valid is just ridiculous. It's simply the usual banana-republic / despotic rule-making: whatever we say, goes.

      Reread the Fourth Amendment. It specifically says that reasonable searches are legal. It specifically authorizes a procedure to legalize unreasonable searches. By use of the legal phrase "search and seizure" it specifically exempts all government information-gathering that is related to the President's Commander-in-Chief power. None of this is Judicial tinkering, none of it is unconstitutional, and none of it was opposed by the Founders or they would have written a very different Fourth Amendment.

      I really, truly, feel for the poor fools who have deluded themselves into thinking their Sixth Grade teacher was not lying through her teeth when she described the Founders solely as champions of freedom; and implied that the Constitution was intended to do anything but create a strong enough state-structure to keep the Brits out with exactly enough freedom to keep the hoi polloi appeased. Anti-freedom elements require to keep said hoi polloi appeased were included with nary a blink.

      The Fourth is actually probably the worst of the lot. It's sold as a "Right to Privacy," when it's written solely as a restriction on data-gathering for legal proceedings.

    34. Re:Summary is flat out WRONG by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Unreasonable is anything else

      No, that's not what the Fourth Amendment says. Let's look:

      The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

      There are two clauses here, one forbidding unreasonable searches and seizures, and one about the issuance of warrants. There is no connection made between the two clauses. There is an implication that a warrant makes any search and/or seizure Constitutional, which is based on general usage at the time. There was, to the best of my knowledge, no general usage that would state that only a warranted search and/or seizure is reasonable. It seems to me that, if that was the intent, it would have been phrased differently. It has been held that there are searches and seizures that are reasonable without a warrant (for example, searching a person for weapons when you've arrested him).

      The Constitution is ambiguous at times.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  4. Good! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think that this is a good thing. Not the idea of people being searched without warrants. I think it's good that a government official, even a lowly one like the mayor of Stockton, suffered this. It is only when government officials are subjected to this outrageous breach of The Constitution, that there is any real hope of it being changed.

    So long as it's only the sheeple complaining, illegal searches will continue to be "permissible". When congress critters start getting inconvenienced and their predilection for gay porn starts being made public, then things will change, for our safety.

    I hope that many more government officials will be forced to endure these absurd detainments and searches.

    1. Re:Good! by onepoint · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Stuff like this makes me nervous about my rights and about my family's right. someone once said something like this, " Then they came after me and because I did not defend the others they we gone and no one was their to help me when I needed help "

      --
      if you see me, smile and say hello.
    2. Re:Good! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't worry about it unless you've previously been the subject of a criminal investigation like Silva. Secondly, the courts have ruled that for now Customs has to have a least a "reasonable suspicion" to search your devices. Of course, I don't think that there's a policy that clearly defines "reasonable suspicion", so until there is one, the courts will probably be deciding on a case-to-case basis.

    3. Re:Good! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 0

      Sadly I don't think Mayor of Stockton is high enough up the chain for anyone who can do anything to give a fuck. As far as they are concerned the system is working - the little people have no rights at the border, it's only once you get into high office that you can travel freely. Otherwise how would they sell that ability to rich people who fund their campaigns, if just anyone with a public profile could get it for free?

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:Good! by koan · · Score: 2

      I hope they get to "endure" a little 1790's France.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    5. Re:Good! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      US Government science researchers returning from China leave their "travel" laptop and smartphone with the DHS folks.

      In other words, take along to China a laptop and phone which you have no intention of using further once you return to the US.

      Problem solved.

    6. Re:Good! by unity · · Score: 1

      Only problem is this copsucking mayor was happy to comply.
      "For his part, Silva said he’s “happy to cooperate and comply with these inspection procedures if they are in fact routine and legal"
      Sounds to me like he was only concerned that he was singled out. But hey, as long as they are doing it to everybody, then its all good.

    7. Re:Good! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "First they came"

      First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
      Because I was not a Socialist.
      Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
      Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
      Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
      Because I was not a Jew.
      Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

    8. Re:Good! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You really butchered Pastor Niemoller's poem there.

      First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
      Because I was not a Socialist.

      Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
      Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

      Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
      Because I was not a Jew.

      Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

      -------------------

      As an aside, if anyone tries to convince you that the nazis were socialists in anything more than name, refer them to that poem.

    9. Re:Good! by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Nothing will happen until several senators from both parties have been subject to the same thing.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    10. Re:Good! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As it correctly should.

    11. Re:Good! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a problem with your reply. I never said I would not defend this politician from having this happen to them. Actually, I pretty much said the exact opposite. Because he was charged with this bullshit, now there will be more people protesting this bullshit (hopefully).

    12. Re:Good! by DutchUncle · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up beyond 5. The higher the government official, the better.

    13. Re:Good! by Cramer · · Score: 1

      So, what exactly do they think they'll find on their electronics that they could not have already transmitted across the internet to machines in the US? This is just fucking stupid. This isn't the 30's; we don't smuggle data in physical form like it's microfilm.

  5. Well now, not surprising by redmid17 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm not a huge fan of the border search exception. Technically DHS and CBP can demand access to laptops or cell phones as part of entry into the country. They don't have the right to detain for passwords. They can hold the equipment and return it later.

    A US citizen has an absolute right to re-enter the country.

    1. Re:Well now, not surprising by v1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A US citizen has an absolute right to re-enter the country.

      A sovereign country has an absolute right to defend its borders. I'm pretty sure the contradiction that arises from these two conflicting statements ends up in a loss for the citizen.

      Them: "You're not leaving here until you give us your passwords."

      Me: "go to hell. and while you're there, tell my lawyer to get over here pronto."

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    2. Re:Well now, not surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As far as the "return it later" - I've seen many articles that say that they are supposed to return it but that there is no evidence that they ever return anything.

    3. Re:Well now, not surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Been to China? Then his computers are probably full of Chinese spyware and keyloggers that he doesn't even suspect.
      So a thorough check and disinfection is probably justified.

    4. Re:Well now, not surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Been to China? Then his computers are probably full of Chinese spyware and keyloggers that he doesn't even suspect.
      So a thorough check and disinfection is probably justified.

      Been to China and held by HomeSec? If it wasn't full of Chinese malware, it's full of Homeland malware.
      Just toss the phone in the industrial shredder before turning it on.

    5. Re:Well now, not surprising by redmid17 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You'd be wrong, unless you're suspected of a crime or something similar. Court cases have already ruled that a US citizen has absolute right to re-enter the country, sans criminal charges pending, even without a passport.

    6. Re:Well now, not surprising by redmid17 · · Score: 1

      They might well be. That doesn't justify detaining *him* until he gives up the passwords.

      They don't suspect him of espionage or trade secret theft do they? My father sure as hell didn't get held up at customs when returning from Russia or China, despite taking a laptop and cellphone with him.

    7. Re:Well now, not surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This is all moot, considering that most of his equipment was probably made in China and infected at the factory.

    8. Re:Well now, not surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Silva was under separate investigations in 2012 and 2013 for sexual battery. He was also alleged to have secretly taped female juveniles changing clothes at his residence. However, no charges were brought due to the prosecutor's decision that there wasn't hard evidence of the allege crimes. My guess is that the authorities are looking for evidence of those crimes as well as any crimes committed while in China.

    9. Re:Well now, not surprising by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      He is definitely guilty of going to a Chinese-government-sponsored Mayor's conference, bringing his actual every-day electronics and not some super-special throw-away ones that will be expected to be bugged, and despite the recent bullshit accord that has got to sound some alarms.

      It could get creepy. He has also been accused of using his position on the school board to get little girls into a bathroom where he had video equipment.

    10. Re:Well now, not surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the US, being accused of a repugnant crime does not exempt one from constitutional rights. If that is the reason for the detention, that makes the incident even worse. Are customs a constitution-free zone, even for citizens?

    11. Re:Well now, not surprising by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      Silva was under separate investigations in 2012 and 2013 for sexual battery. He was also alleged to have secretly taped female juveniles changing clothes at his residence. However, no charges were brought due to the prosecutor's decision that there wasn't hard evidence of the allege crimes. My guess is that the authorities are looking for evidence of those crimes as well as any crimes committed while in China.

      What is the point of looking for evidence on a crime which has already been tried? They can't put him on trial again. That would be illegal. So the search for evidence was "because we can".

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    12. Re:Well now, not surprising by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      Been to China? Then his computers are probably full of Chinese spyware and keyloggers that he doesn't even suspect. So a thorough check and disinfection is probably justified.

      Your computer is just as likely be filled with Chinese spyware and keyloggers while sitting comfortably in your living room as it is in China.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    13. Re:Well now, not surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The 4th amendment has had a border search exception since 1789 because it has been argued that it is reasonable and in the interest of a sovereign nation to secure its borders. It's a well established legal doctrine recognizing the legitimate interest the state has for protecting the public welfare and integrity of its laws.

    14. Re:Well now, not surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is the point of looking for evidence on a crime which has already been tried? They can't put him on trial again. That would be illegal. So the search for evidence was "because we can".

      Geez, I know its completely unreasonable to expect Slashdotters to RTFA, and its probably wishful thinking to expect them to RTFS, but, c'mon, is it too much to ask that you RTFC you replied to?

      However, no charges were brought due to the prosecutor's decision that there wasn't hard evidence of the allege crimes

      See, he never was put on trial because he was never arrested because the prosecutor didn't think he had enough evidence to get a conviction. So that leaves the police to gather more evidence in the meantime. Now I don't know what the statute of limitations are in California for sexual battery and such, but as long as it hasn't been exceeded, the police are free to continue investigating the allegations.

    15. Re:Well now, not surprising by meerling · · Score: 1

      Where it is or isn't, those border thugs will never recognize that in the first place and weren't looking for it anyhow. They wanted something else, certainly not cyber-security issues.

    16. Re:Well now, not surprising by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      He was never on trial. But even if he had been, that would only apply to the specific crime he was tried for: They might hope to find recording of another female juvenile changing, not the specific individual he was charged over.

    17. Re:Well now, not surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you able to read or are you just being an asshole? How the FUCK do you get tried for charges that were never filed? You don't. He was never tried. Spend more time on reading comprehension and less time leaving valueless comments.

    18. Re:Well now, not surprising by vux984 · · Score: 1

      even without a passport.

      The obvious loophole is that the US border services doesn't have to take your word for it that you are a citizen. Nor is their any mandate that they process your claim or evidence of citizenship in any sort of timely manner.

      Q "Why did you prevent this us citizen from entering the country?"

      A "We did not determine he was a US citizen."

      Q "He's been here for 6 months now."

      A "We are not obligated to make a determination; we didn't want to let him go, so we elected not to determine if he is a citizen."

    19. Re:Well now, not surprising by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Well, they can't prevent you from return home since you're a citizen but there's no requirement they let you import anything, so who knows.... your belongings might be stuck in customs for years while your lawyer and theirs fight it out in court.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    20. Re:Well now, not surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find this utterly treasonous of our Government who should be sworn to protect us and uphold the Constitution. Amazing how this "privilege" of your Government demanding access to your private property is reserved only for us US Citizens entering the country under perfectly legal and normal circumstances. Enter from the southern border under cover of darkness or jump the fence in broad daylight and there's little chance you will even be noticed, let alone harassed.

    21. Re:Well now, not surprising by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      What is the point of looking for evidence on a crime which has already been tried? They can't put him on trial again. That would be illegal. So the search for evidence was "because we can".

      Geez, I know its completely unreasonable to expect Slashdotters to RTFA, and its probably wishful thinking to expect them to RTFS, but, c'mon, is it too much to ask that you RTFC you replied to?

      However, no charges were brought due to the prosecutor's decision that there wasn't hard evidence of the allege crimes

      See, he never was put on trial because he was never arrested because the prosecutor didn't think he had enough evidence to get a conviction. So that leaves the police to gather more evidence in the meantime. Now I don't know what the statute of limitations are in California for sexual battery and such, but as long as it hasn't been exceeded, the police are free to continue investigating the allegations.

      So because he would have been found not guilty, they decided not to try him, which leaves him in a state of assumed guilt where they constantly seek evidence against him. That doesn't sound like the proper way to run a legal system. Either somebody was accused and goes to trial or they decide that it is not even worth going to trial due to lack of evidence and they assume you are innocent and leave you alone. An accusation cannot leave you with a lifetime of having to prove you are innocent.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    22. Re:Well now, not surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't be this obtuse. The prosecution actually has a moral duty not to prosecute a case if there is too little or no evidence to secure a conviction. Silva is not in a state of assumed guilt. If he were to go to trial he would be presumed innocent until a jury or judge decided otherwise. Right now two different women have accused Silva of sexual battery, and there has been an allegation that he secretly taped juvenile females changing their clothes at his residence. The police have a duty to investigate those allegations. It should be noted that they had enough evidence against Silva which they turned over to the DA recommending prosecution.

    23. Re:Well now, not surprising by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      Slavery was "the law" for a great span of time as well. It was still 100% wrong. As is the whole misinterpretation of the word "unreasonable" as converting the trivially obvious and quite specific definition of "reasonable" in the fourth to "optional based on any government drone's opinion at the moment."

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    24. Re:Well now, not surprising by redmid17 · · Score: 1

      Actually they are obligated to make that distinction. Only a moron wouldn't think so. That's their job. Even without a passport, credit cards, a driver's license, and all sorts of other documents can confirm your identity. It takes a few minutes to look up whether a person is an actual citizen, longer to prove. Jesus you can get on a plane without government issued ID. You think a CBP agent would risk their job over denying a citizen re-entry?

      Even without those documents, it's relatively trivial to to answer some questions about your identity, have CBP look up a photo ID, and let you in.

    25. Re:Well now, not surprising by vux984 · · Score: 1

      It was a reference to Egypt. Where the law says we can't provide aid to a government formed by coup. Egypt's government was formed by coup, they wanted to send aid, so they decided the law didn't require them to determine whether or not the government was formed by a coup.

      That said:

      Even without a passport, credit cards, a driver's license, and all sorts of other documents can confirm your identity.

      "Can confirm" is entirely beside the point if they don't want to confirm.

      You think a CBP agent would risk their job over denying a citizen re-entry?

      If they were told to reject someone? Then rejecting them would be their job. If they asked "but I have to allow a citizen" and was told "so don't confirm he's a citizen"...

      Even without those documents, it's relatively trivial to to answer some questions about your identity, have CBP look up a photo ID, and let you in.

      Sure, if they want to be helpful. All he has to do look at the credit cards, drivers license, and call it a suspected fake, and send it in to be processed.

      That could take hours, days... months. Sure it could be done in a few minutes if they WANTED to... but what if they didn't want to? What are you going to do about it?

    26. Re:Well now, not surprising by redmid17 · · Score: 1

      You're being asinine. If they end up denying a person for days over ..... nothing, a judge is gonna have their ass for it.

  6. "refused to let him leave" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    The only three lines you need to learn:

    "Am I being detained?"

    "I would like my lawyer present."

    "No comment."

    1. Re:"refused to let him leave" by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 1

      That's all well and good, if you're prepared to spend a night in jail to make your point! Authorities can and do detain people without cause for up to a day, in some cases longer, when people try to assert their rights.

    2. Re: "refused to let him leave" by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      A night in jail isn't much, come back when you have a year or more in jail.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    3. Re: "refused to let him leave" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A night in jail isn't much, come back when you have a year or more in jail.

      And how many other inmates will the guards let into your cell to rape and beat you, during the course of the one night?

  7. Within 100 miles of a border... by QuietLagoon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Isn't their some law that gives border agents essentially unlimited rights to search and confiscate (no warrant required) so long as they are within 100 miles of any US border? I remember seeing something like that a few years ago and thought, gee, I wonder how many people live in houses that are within 100 miles of the border....

    1. Re:Within 100 miles of a border... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Ask and you shall receive, about 200 Million people, including several entire states.

      https://www.aclu.org/know-your...

    2. Re:Within 100 miles of a border... by sribe · · Score: 1

      Isn't their some law that gives border agents essentially unlimited rights to search and confiscate (no warrant required) so long as they are within 100 miles of any US border?

      Founding legal theory is that as long as you're on the other side of the line, "outside" the USA, normal restrictions on government agents do not apply wrt to searches and so on.

      BUT, my understanding is also that NO ONE, not any agent of any law enforcement branch, ever, under any circumstances, can deny entry to a US citizen. They may be able to legally (in theory at least) tell you that if you don't hand over your passwords you cannot enter with your stuff, but if you're willing to tell them, "yeah, OK, have a nice day" and walk away from your laptop, they can't prevent that. (Beyond long enough to search your luggage, verify your passport, etc.)

    3. Re:Within 100 miles of a border... by davidwr · · Score: 1

      BUT, my understanding is also that NO ONE, not any agent of any law enforcement branch, ever, under any circumstances, can deny entry to a US citizen.

      They can't deny you entry, but if there is a warrant out for your arrest or you commit any crime once under "US jurisdiction" they can arrest you.

      A trivial example would be if you attempted to enter the country at someplace other than a port of entry. So, if you are visiting Mexico and want to wade across the Rio Grande on your way back, you won't be deported-upon-entry (assuming you can convince the border patrol you are an American) but you will be arrested for illegal entry or something similar.

      Depending on international treaties, border patrol may even be able to hold you and turn you over to the police of the country you just left if the other country's police were in "hot pursuit" (I don't know if there are any existing treaties that allow for this, but it is a legal possibility).

      --
      Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    4. Re:Within 100 miles of a border... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Wasn't there something about this also applying at international airports in the middle of the country?

    5. Re:Within 100 miles of a border... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      aka basically anyone who lives anywhere remotely relevant in the US....

    6. Re:Within 100 miles of a border... by sjames · · Score: 1

      I'm fairly sure they would have to have an extradition hearing before handing you over. They could detain you for that hearing.

    7. Re:Within 100 miles of a border... by sribe · · Score: 1

      They can't deny you entry, but if there is a warrant out for your arrest...

      Sure, they can let you in, then take you straight to jail. That counts ;-)

      ...but you will be arrested for illegal entry ...

      No. Illegal entry is the act of *foreigners* entering improperly. A US citizen coming to the US is, by definition, never illegal entry.

    8. Re: Within 100 miles of a border... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No.

      Illegal entry is perfectly possible for a US citizen.

      You cannot be denied entry, but you can certainly go about doing so in a manner that is not sanctioned.

    9. Re:Within 100 miles of a border... by acoustix · · Score: 1

      Isn't their some law that gives border agents essentially unlimited rights to search and confiscate (no warrant required) so long as they are within 100 miles of any US border? I remember seeing something like that a few years ago and thought, gee, I wonder how many people live in houses that are within 100 miles of the border....

      And how is it that this law trumps the US Constitution? Specifically the 4th amendment?

      --
      "A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
    10. Re:Within 100 miles of a border... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      The same ones that let the NSA do so as well - they can get away with it without pressure from above holding them to the law.

  8. Actually you are flat out WRONG by raymorris · · Score: 5, Informative

    The recent rulings have been that laptop searches are unconstitutional. The courts have said this is so because a ) laptops and phones contain highly personal information, much more so that suitcases normally do, and b) customs is to be searching for things like products being smuggled in, or drugs. Hard drives can't contain drugs and wouldn't contain smuggled products. Two recent examples include:

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/ru...

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...

    The Obama administration has argued that they don't need a warrant, but the courts have ruled against them.

    1. Re:Actually you are flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I could put drugs in a HDD! They're already adding Helium. You know breathing Helium is a gateway drug to breathing Pure Oxygen!

    2. Re:Actually you are flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. Customs is also empowered to search for illegally obtained intellectual property and child pornography contraband, so they absolutely can search electronic devices.

      2. Teh courts have not ruled laptop searches unconstitutional, they just narrowed the border search doctrine to require the government to have a "reasonable suspicion" (not a warrant) for searching laptops and other digital devices. Before, they effectively didn't need to justify a search at all. They could do it arbitrarily.

      This was all spelled out in the wikipedia article you linked to, lol.

    3. Re:Actually you are flat out WRONG by NicBenjamin · · Score: 2

      Reread your first source.

      In the Ninth Circuit they can search electronic devices with "reasonable suspicion" at the border. The Ninth has not explained precisely what that means.

      Which means that as long as the Obama Administration can articulate some suspicion of somebody involved in the Mayor's conference he went to they've got a case.

    4. Re:Actually you are flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The recent rulings have been that laptop searches are unconstitutional.

      Yawn. Until these clowns are held accountable, and I mean long prison sentences not the insincere "I'm sorry" that we have always gotten in the past, these rulings mean nothing because nothing changes. Ever since 9-11 the US government has been routinely ignoring it's own legal system whenever that system makes a ruling that is "inconvenient" to their quest for a dictatorship.

      * The Patriot Act says that US citizens can be imprisoned indefinitely without ever being accused of a crime.
      * Perjury (parallel reconstruction) is legal for law enforcement. Even when they are caught red-handed the courts refuse to prosecute.
      * Murder is legal for the government. Police shoot down citizens without cause all the time, and when it's caught on camera the officers involved have to take a two week paid suspension. Obama has claimed he has the right to order the assassination of US citizens on his word alone.
      * Law enforcement, particularly the Feds, feel that the law, and the Constitution, do not apply to them. Warrants? We don't need no frickin warrants.
      * Government greed and corruption is so obvious and constant that everyone has come to think it is normal.

      This is not the America that the founding fathers envisioned.

    5. Re:Actually you are flat out WRONG by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      I could put drugs in a HDD! They're already adding Helium. You know breathing Helium is a gateway drug to breathing Pure Oxygen!

      In the UK helium is about to become a controlled substance because some people have used it to commit suicide.

      So I guess these HDD's are going to become contraband and subject to seizure on the basis that they contain a controlled substance.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    6. Re:Actually you are flat out WRONG by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      The recent rulings have been that laptop searches are unconstitutional. The courts have said this is so because a ) laptops and phones contain highly personal information, much more so that suitcases normally do, and b) customs is to be searching for things like products being smuggled in, or drugs.

      Just to be clear, those searches are unconstitutional because they have neither probable cause nor a warrant. They're not done regardless because a judge said mumble mumble.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    7. Re:Actually you are flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the searches are not unconstitutional. Border search doctrine provides an exception to the 4th amendment prohibition against unreasonable search and seizure and has since 1789. What the courts have recently ruled is that Customs now have to have a "reasonable suspicion" of law breaking in order to initiate a search. But "reasonable suspicion" is not the same as probable cause and still does not require a warrant.

    8. Re:Actually you are flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the searches are not unconstitutional. Border search doctrine provides an exception to the 4th amendment prohibition against unreasonable search and seizure and has since 1789.

      Searching a ship or other vehicle run by a business is a very different thing than searching an individual.

      Note that Congress has never had the legal authority to violate the Bill of Rights. It is the highest law in the land. As such, a law passed by Congress such as the 1789 law (which actually predates the Bill of Rights) does not and can not allow violation of the Bill of Rights.

      Searching an individual and their personal possessions, merely because they are crossing a border, is absolutely unconstitutional without a warrant (and that warrant must be based on cause that any educated person would consider reasonable). It's not just a matter of rights arising under the 4th Amendment, but also of rights retained by the people under the 9th Amendment, and reserved to the people under the 10th Amendment. Anything else would violate rights the people of a free country would reasonably have a right to expect in a free country.

      The Bill of Rights (ratified in 1791) thus overrides the earlier and lessor law with respect to individual rights: only those portions of the earlier law that apply to a business are still applicable.

      Every government official approving or carrying out a search in violation of this point immediately and permanently becomes a former government official, without regard to immunity or pardon. Any precedents to the contrary are illegal precedents, immediately and permanently disqualifying the judges involved from holding any position of public trust or responsibility. Every legal professional in the United States is required - by the oath they swear to uphold the Bill of Rights - to recognize this, as is every law enforcement officer, and every senior government executive.

      Incidentally, for any government in the United States to keep seized goods in order to sell them and put money into the budget is, in itself, illegal. The dual rights to ethical government and ethical practice of law prohibit this: even the appearance of conflict of interest is prohibited when alternative exists. It's no different than is the case for fines associated with traffic tickets.

      Similarly, attempting to coerce an individual to give up a personal password is always a violation of rights retained by the people under the 9th Amendment. It's a different situation with respect to a password for government equipment (even there, strictly speaking, since Congress can pass no law infringing freedom of speech, we really need an Amendment authorizing an exception, anything else violates the right to ethical practice of law by creating a contradiction in the legal system).

      The Nuremberg Precedent does apply to US law: it comes in under the 9th Amendment as a right retained by the people. Every government official and every legal professional has an individual and personal responsibility to refuse to obey illegal laws, illegal court orders, illegal executive orders. This includes refusing to recognize as valid any precedent that violates the Bill of Rights, irregardless of hierarchy (whether that hierarchy be military, judicial, or anything else).

      By definition, rights retained by the people are retained by the people: no entity of government, including the Supreme Court, can take away such rights, nor can government entities combine together to do so.

      Yes, this does imply that many aspects of the "War on Drugs" are illegal. US federal and state government officials are routinely breaking the law, and not just with respect to the War on Drugs. That's nothing new. Even as early as the Constitutional Convention, Morris of NY pointed out that slavery violated the right to ethical practice of law (he didn't use those exact words, but that is how we would word things today), and certainly everybody with a functioning brain would agree that the right to ethical

    9. Re:Actually you are flat out WRONG by Lserevi · · Score: 1
      The Wikipedia article seems to indicate that laptop searches are legal -- at least in the jurisdiction of the 9th district:

      The majority also found that reasonable suspicion was not needed since they considered the inspection as a routine search.

      This is inconsistent with the PBS article, however:

      In spring 2013, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the government should have reasonable suspicion before conducting a comprehensive search of an electronic device.

    10. Re:Actually you are flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Two words: stare decisis

    11. Re:Actually you are flat out WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Wikipedia article seems to indicate that laptop searches are legal -- at least in the jurisdiction of the 9th district:

      The majority also found that reasonable suspicion was not needed since they considered the inspection as a routine search.

      The laptop searches are legal (i.e., not ruled unconstitutional) in every jurisdiction. The only difference is in the 9th district where authorities now must have a "reasonable suspicion" to conduct a search of electronic devices. Everywhere else Customs can still pretty much arbitrarily search your laptop. And you've got it wrong about the finding. The majority found that Customs had reasonable suspicion because the appellant was a convicted of possessing child pornography and was flagged to have his devices search when he and his wife were returning from an overseas trip. But that's not the issue of the appeal. The legal question is whether the search itself was reasonable since the laptop had to be confiscated and sent to a facility for forensic examination for a long period of time. The appellant argued that it wasn't, but lost when the court rule otherwise.

      This is inconsistent with the PBS article, however:

      In spring 2013, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the government should have reasonable suspicion before conducting a comprehensive search of an electronic device.

      Well, they found that the government didn't not meet the "reasonable suspicion" standard they set in the case referenced above. In the first case they found the authorities had reasonable suspicion (because of the appellant's prior conviction) and in the second case the government came up short, so the court ruled in favor of the appellant.

  9. I understand by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Funny

    Despite my general distaste for the tactics of the TSA, I understand; I find politicians suspicious, too.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:I understand by fisted · · Score: 4, Funny

      You forgot the "Despite my general distaste for the tactics of the TSA, I understand;"

  10. I understand by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    I find politicians suspicious, too

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  11. Hearts and minds by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    Hearts and minds, baby - that's where you win a war. And they've got us right where they want us.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:Hearts and minds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hearts and minds, baby - that's where you win a war. And they've got us right where they want us.

      By the genitals? Ouch!

  12. What's the mayor of Stockton doing in China? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know, attending a mayor's conference. But seriously, they're bankrupt. He's got no business traveling to China for some junket.

    Shame about his laptops and all, but it would be interesting to know what they're looking for.

    1. Re:What's the mayor of Stockton doing in China? by Eristone · · Score: 4, Informative

      Stockton has a port. Getting cargo shipped to said port generates revenue from dock fees, import fees, transship fees, fees for trucks coming into the port not to mention all the working types. China is one of the worlds largest exporters - so yes, the mayor of Stockton has a reason to be in China, drumming up business.

  13. Taxpayers of Stockton by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The agents must have been taxpayers of Stockton.

    In related news, the DHS required Obama to turn over his passwords before allowing him to keep his phone and laptop when he returned to the country. Same for the guy carrying the nuke control suitcase.

  14. not very bright is he? by musikit · · Score: 2

    people would have missed a mayor. job blow of course not but when a day or 2 passes and the mayor hasnt made contact people will start searching. FBI most likely would have been called. Fox"News" would have reported it and it would have shed some light on the practice. he should have just sit still.

  15. Why did they need his passwords? by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 1

    If the phone was encrypted, I can see why they might need a password for it. But PCs aren't difficult to access without the password, for example, by using the built-in administrator account (which by default has no password), or by physically removing the hard drive.

    Constitutional issues aside, this seems pretty inept. to me.

    1. Re:Why did they need his passwords? by ruir · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Try to yank a drive from any recent macbook pro....

    2. Re:Why did they need his passwords? by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Relatively easy although encryption isn't that hard on Mac's either.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    3. Re:Why did they need his passwords? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the phone was encrypted, I can see why they might need a password for it. But PCs aren't difficult to access without the password, for example, by using the built-in administrator account (which by default has no password), or by physically removing the hard drive.

      Constitutional issues aside, this seems pretty inept. to me.

      Disk encryption is fairly widely used with Windows. It is an visibly promoted feature easily turned on in Win7, on by default in Win8.1 and Win10 for modern hardware, and on by default by almost all PCs administrated by an organization (with non-inept admins). But that aside, there is absolutely no admin account with default no password in any recent versions of Windows, and not trivial to brute force password even with local access (I have tried with the various tools for this on a Win8.1 machine with forgotten password).

    4. Re:Why did they need his passwords? by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 1

      Apple products are used by government agencies only on TV. In real life, it's all Windows, mostly Windows XP.

    5. Re:Why did they need his passwords? by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      Apple products are used by government agencies only on TV. In real life, it's all Windows, mostly Windows XP.

      Really? They say otherwise.

    6. Re:Why did they need his passwords? by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 1

      Your article explains that Macs are only used at FBI headquarters.

      In the field, however, they don't have as much money to spend, so they have to stretch their dollars by buying WinTel-based hardware.

    7. Re:Why did they need his passwords? by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      Your article explains that Macs are only used at FBI headquarters.

      You post claimed that only the fictionalized G-men used Macs, my reply disputes that. Try again on your goal-post moving.

    8. Re:Why did they need his passwords? by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      Neither my desktop PC nor my laptop has an Administrator account, and if they did, I'd have given them a password. They do, however, have root accounts and part of the installation is setting a root password. Hint: not everybody who uses a PC uses Windows; some of us install an OS that isn't designed to be as insecure as possible.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    9. Re:Why did they need his passwords? by meerling · · Score: 1

      Several of the things you said there were incorrect.
      We don't know what that mayor was using, so we can't really say. Of course, he could have an encrypted HD, and a bios password. That'll make most would be digital intruders go home, including the NSA, because unless that sucker has nuclear codes or something super important like that on it, it's just not worth the time, money, and hassle to try and crack it.

    10. Re:Why did they need his passwords? by nogginthenog · · Score: 1

      Come on. Even Windows does not have a default admin account with no password.

    11. Re:Why did they need his passwords? by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 1

      You must be part of the 1%!

    12. Re:Why did they need his passwords? by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 1

      Of course he could have done that. But what are the odds?

    13. Re:Why did they need his passwords? by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 1
    14. Re:Why did they need his passwords? by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      That depends. If you mean financially, no way. If you mean the 1% of computer users with enough sense not to install Windows on their computers because it's broken and insecure by design, then yes, I am and have been for almost a decade now.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    15. Re: Why did they need his passwords? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We know you aren't rich because you care if your computer works. A rich person would just buy a new one.

    16. Re:Why did they need his passwords? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "No password" is not the same as "empty password". If a password is a key, then this is a lock for which no key exists.

    17. Re:Why did they need his passwords? by antdude · · Score: 1

      I thought only Air were like that with the glues, tight spaces, etc.

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    18. Re:Why did they need his passwords? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When performing forensics, they're not going to boot the computer and enable an administrator account. If anything, they'd just yank the hard drive, clone it, and look at the data later. Doesn't do much good if you have disk encryption, though.

    19. Re:Why did they need his passwords? by ruir · · Score: 1

      If only it were true. Air was the first one indeed. Nowadays, after the pro became thinner it is rather ubiquitous along de Mac line.

    20. Re:Why did they need his passwords? by ruir · · Score: 1

      If you are speaking of China government that must be true...I am sorry to burst your bubble, however in faculties the penetration is around 30-50%, and much of the corporate world including Cisco, IBM and HP are shunning desktops to shave costs and giving the employees the choice between MS and Mac notebooks supported by their corporate services. Try to guess what is their choice, it is not really that hard.

    21. Re:Why did they need his passwords? by antdude · · Score: 1

      That sucks. :( I also heard iMacs are bad too.

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    22. Re:Why did they need his passwords? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Key phrase:

      "Not liable for damages caused during search".

      If they want to get the drive out with an acetylene torch, they can, and give you back the melted remains. "Not our problem."

      AC

  16. meanwhile by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The rest of us keep being treated routinely like criminals without the media getting interested, because we aren't the mayor of Stockton.

    Why should this guy get special treatment (by the TSA or by the press) just because he's a minor elected politico?

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    1. Re:meanwhile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The rest of us keep being treated routinely like criminals without the media getting interested, because we aren't the mayor of Stockton.

      Why should this guy get special treatment (by the TSA or by the press) just because he's a minor elected politico?

      Because there is a justice for the rich and beautiful and nothing for the rest of us.

    2. Re:meanwhile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The rest of us keep being treated routinely like criminals without the media getting interested, because we aren't the mayor of Stockton.

      Why should this guy get special treatment (by the TSA or by the press) just because he's a minor elected politico?

      It's a shame this happens to everyone else too. But maybe this can be a wake up call. If it happens to this guy, it can happen to everyone. It really seems like a slippery slope here. Wake up, sheeple!

    3. Re:meanwhile by dcollins · · Score: 1

      You're looking at this the wrong way. When lawyers think about litigating (say: civil-rights or class-action cases), they know it's strategic to look for a good "test case", that is, someone who short-cuts people's biases and generally looks above approach. This is your leverage to get the law changed for everyone; basically shaming the offenders with the most absurd abuse of their power. We should be thankful when there's a case that allows us to get any media attention to these issues.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    4. Re:meanwhile by dcollins · · Score: 1

      Edit: "above approach" -> "above reproach"

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    5. Re:meanwhile by guises · · Score: 1

      This kind of jealous attitude is destructive.

      Yes, he's getting special treatment. Yes, that's bad. Responding with the suggestion that he should be brought down to your level makes the problem worse, not better. The constructive response is: "They should not have done that to him, or to anyone else."

  17. Any influential person who takes devices to China, by Legal.Troll · · Score: 3, Informative

    surrenders them to Chinese authorities without a peep of complaint, and brings them back to the US and is surprised when federal spooks demand to have a look at the physical and software surveillance devices that have been installed into it, isn't paying any attention to the world and has zero grounds to complain TLDR if you're important or powerful, don't willingly allow yourself to become an espionage attack vector for our first or second most powerful enemy

    --
    "Outdated business models" is code for "I don't like paying for things, but want them anyway"
  18. What he should have done ... by mikein08 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    was politely decline to give passwords without a warrant. Then, if he was not released in a timely manner, make life as difficult as possible for the bureaucrats in question. And if his devices are not returned in a timely manner, make life even more difficult for them. There are devious and not so devious ways to do this, and mostly it isn't difficult. Bureaucrats rely on cooperation from the sheep, and the sheep need to stop being cooperative.

    1. Re:What he should have done ... by Solandri · · Score: 2

      What most people are missing is that they don't need a warrant because you're outside the U.S. wanting in. Supreme Court cases have established that U.S. Constitutional protections apply only to people (both citizens and non-citizens, including illegal immigrants) on U.S. soil. Once you're outside the U.S., all bets are off even if you're a U.S. citizen. That's why Bush built a prison in Guantanamo Bay - that's Cuban soil, not U.S., so prisoners there wouldn't be protected by that pesky Constitution. (The SCotUS eventually decided that because of the degree of control the U.S. had over the base, it was effectively U.S. soil and the prisoners there did have Constitutional protections. At which point the prison camps operated in Iraq and Afghanistan by the U.S. military were turned over to those countries.)

      I agree that confiscating his laptop and phone and holding them ransom until he disclosed his password is morally wrong and our agents shouldn't be behaving that way. But until you've been admitted into the U.S., you have very few legal protections no matter who you are.

    2. Re:What he should have done ... by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      What most people are missing is that they don't need a warrant because you're outside the U.S. wanting in. Supreme Court cases have established that U.S. Constitutional protections apply only to people (both citizens and non-citizens, including illegal immigrants) on U.S. soil.

      If he surrenders the laptop, what right does immigration have to prevent a US citizen from entering the country? Surely, he has a presumtive right to entry when he is at the border.

      That's why Bush built a prison in Guantanamo Bay - that's Cuban soil, not U.S., so prisoners there wouldn't be protected by that pesky Constitution.

      Could I murder someone in an airport before going through immigration and not be prosecuted? After all, if it is not US soil, then US laws don't apply. There is a world of difference between Gitmo and an airport.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    3. Re:What he should have done ... by just_a_monkey · · Score: 1

      > There are devious and not so devious
      > ways to do this, and mostly it isn't difficult.

      So how do you do it?

      --
      How inappropriate to call this planet Earth, when clearly it is Ocean.
    4. Re:What he should have done ... by sjames · · Score: 1

      Pure unadulterated sophistry, and un-Constitutional at that. First, I don't recall any region codes on the Constitution. Second, what flag flies over the U.S. base in Cuba? Is Castro in charge on the base?

    5. Re:What he should have done ... by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

      What he should be doing right now is loudly proclaiming the names and all other personal information (home addresses, phone numbers, email addresses, etc.) of the specific agents who did this. Quit giving scum anonymity.

    6. Re:What he should have done ... by dunkindave · · Score: 1

      First, I don't recall any region codes on the Constitution.

      The framers of the Constitution believed it was obvious that it only applied within the US so forgot to mention that it doesn't apply outside the US. Please forgive them.

      Second, what flag flies over the U.S. base in Cuba? Is Castro in charge on the base?

      The same flag flying at Ramstein Air Base in Germany, Camp Fuji Marine Base in Japan, and at Incirlik Air Base in Turkey. In none of these cases is the land the property of the United States. Guantanamo Bay Naval Base is leased from the Cubans and is Cuban property. It is like an Italian student in the US renting an apartment and putting out an Italian flag. That doesn't make the apartment Italian soil.

      One country leasing land from another country however does often confer certain rights to the lessee (depending on the lease terms) that the student in the example doesn't enjoy, such as self-governance, so no, Castro isn't in charge of the base, and it is because of this principle that the SCOTUS ruled that the prisoners there were entitled to US justice.

    7. Re:What he should have done ... by sjames · · Score: 1

      The Constitution is quite clear on the matter. It outlines what the U.S. government is permitted to do. Anything not permitted in the Constitution is forbidden to the government. There is no clause that says outside of the U.S. anything goes.

      Any weak excuses to the contrary are further damaged when the action is taken against a U.S. citizen.

      And as a final death blow, are they trying to claim that if a wanted criminal was spotted in the international concourse of an airport, they would just watch as he boards a plane bound for Argentina because there was no jurisdiction there to arrest him? Or would the U.S. government suddenly assert territorial rights?

    8. Re:What he should have done ... by dunkindave · · Score: 1

      The Constitution is quite clear on the matter. It outlines what the U.S. government is permitted to do. Anything not permitted in the Constitution is forbidden to the government. There is no clause that says outside of the U.S. anything goes.

      No one said there was a clause saying outside the US anything goes, so that is a strawman. What the Constitution does say in Article I, Section 8, is "The Congress shall have Power To ... provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States", so it seems the Constitution does grant the government the power to make laws to protect the general welfare of the US, like searches at the borders to stop things harmful to the country from entering. It is quite clear. Also, it is considered "reasonable" to conduct such searches, so the Fourth Amendment isn't being violated.

      Any weak excuses to the contrary are further damaged when the action is taken against a U.S. citizen.

      And as a final death blow, are they trying to claim that if a wanted criminal was spotted in the international concourse of an airport, they would just watch as he boards a plane bound for Argentina because there was no jurisdiction there to arrest him? Or would the U.S. government suddenly assert territorial rights?

      No, the US has jurisdiction inside its airports (though there are international treaties regarding international travel that limit it a little), so they would have the right to arrest him. But again this is a strawman since that isn't a person trying to enter the US, it is a person trying to leave. Until his plane is out of US airspace, they have jurisdiction over him (assuming he isn't on a diplomatically protected plane). For a person trying to enter, namely what this discussion is about, please see above.

    9. Re:What he should have done ... by sjames · · Score: 1

      No one said there was a clause saying outside the US anything goes, so that is a strawman.

      Re-read the thread, the entire claim of not needing a warrant is based on that 'strawman' AND the claim that the port of entry is not itself U.S. territory. If the latter is true, they have no jurisdiction at all at the port of entry INCLUDING the international concourse of an airport and that 100miles inward from the border they so enjoy claiming. The former is clearly not true.

      The 4th Amendment is a limitation that applies to otherwise Constitutional activities. It is understood to mean they need a warrant for anything beyond a cursory search in all but the most extreme circumstances. Their flimsy claims that the border isn't in the U.S. is just that, they are still restricted from that activity. While I have heard of a logic bomb, they don't blow things up in a literal sense, so your reliance on Article I section 8 is weak as well as far as examining the data on a laptop or phone.

    10. Re:What he should have done ... by dunkindave · · Score: 1

      No one said there was a clause saying outside the US anything goes, so that is a strawman.

      Re-read the thread, the entire claim of not needing a warrant is based on that 'strawman' AND the claim that the port of entry is not itself U.S. territory.

      I re-read it and still don't see anyone claiming that there is a clause in the US Constitution saying "outside of the U.S. anything goes", so your attempt to deflect the label of your argument as a strawman by calling the response a strawman is itself a strawman. Nicely done on using circular logic.

      What someone said was that "U.S. Constitutional protections apply only to people (both citizens and non-citizens, including illegal immigrants) on U.S. soil". That is true, since the protections they have while on another country's soil is dictated by that country, and any treaties that may exist. That is not the same as the interpretation "outside of the U.S. anything goes". The problem here is that entering the US is considered different than being IN the US, namely "on U.S. soil". They are attempting to go from outside the US to inside the US, and the border station is the demarc, and as such is not treated as "on U.S. soil". Since it is not possible to conduct the search in the space between the countries, it is done at the first opportunity in a space considered an entry grey zone if you will. It is this necessary classification that I believe you are debating about.

      If the latter is true, they have no jurisdiction at all at the port of entry INCLUDING the international concourse of an airport and that 100miles inward from the border they so enjoy claiming. The former is clearly not true.

      It isn't true, and no one said that, though obviously you are inferring they did. Again, the issue is ENTERING the US versus being IN the US. Article I Section 8 has granted Congress the power to make this distinction.

      The 4th Amendment is a limitation that applies to otherwise Constitutional activities. It is understood to mean they need a warrant for anything beyond a cursory search in all but the most extreme circumstances. Their flimsy claims that the border isn't in the U.S. is just that, they are still restricted from that activity.

      Again, the Fourth Amendment restricts searches that are "unreasonable". If you are inside the US, then it is understood to mean that without probable cause they cannot search you. This is getting off the topic about border, but we'll continue. Depending on the situation, they may also need a warrant, not "they need a warrant for anything beyond a cursory search in all but the most extreme circumstances". Take for example they receive a report of a robbery and a car description including a license plate. They find the car, pull the people out, and search the car. All without a warrant, and all very legal. Of course I bet you will probably consider any such typically stop and arrest situations as "extreme circumstances", thereby applying victory by definition.

      While I have heard of a logic bomb, they don't blow things up in a literal sense, so your reliance on Article I section 8 is weak as well as far as examining the data on a laptop or phone.

      OK, two things. First, what does the fact the term logic bomb refers to a system configuration or piece of software and not an literal explosive device have to do with this discussion? Are you trying to make a sarcastic claim that the only thing that might reside on an electronic device that is detrimental to the welfare of the United States is a logic bomb? Second, this discussion was mostly about why the government had the right to search the items of people entering the US, with some like sjames claiming that the government has no right to search any items being brought in unless they produce a warrant, which as I have explained isn't true

    11. Re:What he should have done ... by sjames · · Score: 1

      Honestly, you and the U.S. government sound like a cheeky child. No, you may not hit your sister in the house, in the car, at school, in a boat, on a plane, or anywhere else, FULL STOP. You may not hit her with a stick or a sponge or a baseball bat or a pillow, or an old shoe or anything else. Blah blah blah.

      The U.S. government is restricted to doing only what is authorized in the Constitution and and may not do the things forbidden to it by the Bill of Rights in the U.S., in Mexico, in Canada, on the ocean, on the moon, on mars, or anywhere else in the universe, FULL STOP. The laws of other nations may add additional restrictions (and do) when in their jurisdiction. Most commonly it amounts to "you are just a tourist here, you have no authority whatsoever".

      My comments about a clause in the Constitution are based on the fact that the only way their argument (or yours) could possibly work would be if such a special clause existed. Note that it does not. The 4th Amendment is in full effect upon the U.S. government all throughout time and space.

      Any claim to the contrary is just that cheeky (and somewhat petulant) child attempting to declare that yes is no and no is yes.

    12. Re:What he should have done ... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      When you've got plenty of time to waste and are happy to be in the company of self-important bullies for many hours whether you get a result or not your suggestion makes sense. In others giving way and complaining afterwards is far less painful and is less dependant on the people exceeding their authority being honest.

      Threatening the job security of someone who is already operating outside of the rules who has you in their power and can get you charged on their word alone, or can physically harm you with little or no consequences is unwise.

    13. Re:What he should have done ... by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      No. You don't check your Constitutional rights at the door. He's still an American citizen. Just because you're coming back, it doesn't somehow erase that. Heck, they're trying to apply US Constitutional rights to illegal aliens. People that clearly have no Constitutional rights. They're not citizens to have those rights. Of course as always - if you're ignorant of the laws, they can do whatever they want.

      The real joke here - Wonder what kind of porn he had on his laptop.

  19. At least they haven't adopted rectal probes...yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Though the technology is there.

  20. Good, kinda. by Frobnicator · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It is a good thing when high profile and medium profile people get caught in these stupid things.

    When celebrities, including political celebrities, get caught by government aggression it draws a spotlight on the programs that are harassing millions. With the spotlight on them, they tend to withdraw or become legally curtailed.

    Sadly many of the abuses committed by government are against the dregs of society, the people already in trouble with the law, the despicable criminals, drug dealers, child abusers, rapists, murderers, and more. Most of society doesn't care when government abuses these people, which is why so many lawsuits are filed against agencies and officers that people dismiss as just another attempt to get out of being caught. If those same abuses were publicly made against people of celebrity status the programs would be quickly curtailed, or pushed further into the darkness of secrecy.

    Good job DHS, keep targeting popular people. Best thing you can do for the country.

    --
    //TODO: Think of witty sig statement
    1. Re:Good, kinda. by david_bonn · · Score: 1

      A big part of my reaction to this story was anger. Not that it happened, but that I have been putting up with this crap for at least ten years and it isn't news until some bozo from Stockton has it happen to him.

      I understand the border search exemption, but it is obvious to me that their intent (at least when searching my stuff) is to go on a fishing expedition -- twice after a few hours of snooping the homeland security ass^h^h^hofficer began to ask me questions about people who had sent me emails. Questions like "How did I know this person?" and "Why did they send this email to me?" It wasn't like these people were terrorists or drug dealers, they were obviously just on a fishing expedition.

  21. Seize it, but don't ask for the passwords by davidwr · · Score: 2

    Coercing passwords where the law says you can't require the person to give up the passwords is un-American and may even be illegal (I am not a lawyer).

    Coercing them instead of getting a court order requiring the owner to divulge the password when the law says you can get a court order is also un-American - use the courts, that's what they are there for (recent court rulings make me wonder if this sentence even applies anymore if the owner is an US citizen and the request is on US soil or made by US officials at a port of entry as the person is returning to US soil).

    If you, as the front-line Homeland Security guys in the airport - have a legal justification to seize the laptop and your professional training and professional judgment says that there is really a problem that requires seizing it, just seize the laptop, but don't coerce the person to give up his passwords.

    Ideally, you would go to a judge within 24 hours (or in a busy international airport, within 1 hour) of seizing it and explain why you need to keep it. If the judge rejects your argument give it back. If he accepts your argument, the owner should get a "de novo/start-from-scratch" second hearing as soon as his lawyer has had time to prepare a counter-argument.

    By doing it this way, not only would you avoid coercing people, but your bosses would be under political pressure to make sure you, the front-line guys at Homeland Security, didn't abuse their discretion on seizing equipment because they - the bosses that is - know that too may unjustified seizures would eventually make the papers - and not in a good way. They also know that if the political winds turn a certain way, they or their bosses might be hauled in front of Congress to explain things just because some politician wants to score political points in front of the cameras.

    Yes, I know this isn't going to happen this way any time soon. That's why I said "ideally." The closest we can expect any time soon is that law enforcement will stop asking for passwords but that the delays will be so long and the process to get the seized equipment back so onerous that most owners who think they have nothing to hide (and more than a few who naively believe they don't or who stupidly believe that law enforcement won't abuse the password to trawl for crimes unrelated to their initial suspicions) will offer to give them the password just to be on their merry way. Some or even most of them will be let go with their equipment once law enforcement determines that 1) the person is being cooperative and 2) their initial suspicions were unfounded. Word will get around "if they ask for your password, don't fight it, just give it to them."

    Unfortunately (or fortunately, if you value "law and order" and "public safety" more than civil liberties) my hunch is that authorities know that this state of affairs - where the person they have inconvenienced knows that if they really are innocent it's very likely in their best short-term interests to "volunteer information without being asked to do so" - serves the interest of law enforcement in a way that makes it very, very difficult for the person to later claim they weren't acting completely voluntarily.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Seize it, but don't ask for the passwords by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      Your comment is mostly redundant. Almost everything that goes on in America today in courts, politics and enforcement is 'un-American'.

      Got cash in your car? Get pulled over by the cops? Lose the cash. The police are bandits and the courts serve the politicians who are the bandit lords.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    2. Re:Seize it, but don't ask for the passwords by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Coercing passwords where the law says you can't require the person to give up the passwords is un-American

      Uhm, no. It is very American. The U.S. is the only Western country that does this.

  22. Maybe the mayor is a suspect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Folks, before you all go off the deep end about being asked for passwords.. It *is* possible that the mayor is a suspect in a crime. We recently had state legislators who are alleged to have been gun runners, etc.

    It is also possible that his laptop, etc. are owned by the city, state, and not him, in which case, he has no substantive privacy rights with respect to the contents, just like you don't have any substantive privacy rights in your work PC.

    1. Re:Maybe the mayor is a suspect? by tchdab1 · · Score: 1

      According to the stories we have, he was never charged with a crime or told he was a suspect in criminal activity. And so we must proceed as if he is not a criminal and, from my casual knowledge of law and the situation, grant him his full rights and privileges as a citizen of the USA.

      The thinking that "it's possible he's a suspect" just reeks of Bush43 thinking, excuses, and bad leadership decisions that got us unto this heavy-handed, unneeded, and counterproductive security state that we now have.

  23. Welcome to the Stazi States of America by msobkow · · Score: 1

    Welcome to the Stazi States of America. All your possessions are belong to us.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  24. Re:Any influential person who takes devices to Chi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So your first assumption is that China has installed devices in the computer, Why? The idea that any device is secure is so laughable it's absurd, China I dare say has either the same or better tech as the US why would they target a minor official with a device that could be traced or "proven" to be chinese it's so funny that you even consider it a possibility.

    If a First world Govt wants to get your documents they can and you will never trace is back to them if they have any level of competence, The TSA is just playings its "we protect you from EVil terrorist! card again to show that the billions spent on them is worthwhile, while real threats to border security are stopped by everyone but the TSA. (check out what the coastguard dose with a fraction of the budget and with actually results that can be documented, then read about the TSA's ban on Tinfoil in suitcases because of "solar powered bombs"

  25. Re:Any influential person who takes devices to Chi by Legal.Troll · · Score: 1

    Sorry, are you telling me it's just as easy to gain utter control of a device over the interwebs as if you have unrestricted physical access to it? And also you think that the Chinese don't do this? With all that confident knowledge, you should be on the Secret Service. You could have let Obama know it was safe to stay in the Waldorf, because if the Chinese wanted to build an espionage apparatus there, they could have done it already via GoToMyPC !

    --
    "Outdated business models" is code for "I don't like paying for things, but want them anyway"
  26. Cooperating may be in your short-term interest by davidwr · · Score: 1

    As much as I would love to say "be polite but never give any information to police beyond what is required by law if you think they have you on their radar," the reality is that it is frequently in your best short-term interest to do so if in fact you have not done anything wrong and can easily prove it.

    I say "frequently" because there are obvious exceptions. If you think the cop really is out to get you personally or would be happy to find any unrelated reason to make your life miserable (as an example from the past that I hope doesn't apply today: If you have an out-of-state license plate and you've got a good reason to think the local cops are looking for a reason to shake down out-of-state residents) is the most obvious but there are others.

    It should go without saying that it's in everyone's long-term interest if nobody cooperated with police under these circumstances and we as a country developed a "culture of non-cooperation" where it was simply expected that once you had any inkling that the police believed that you might be guilty of something - even a crime not related to the actual or ostensible reason they wanted to talk to you - that you would simply stop talking to them without your lawyer present, and as a result, they would not bother talk to people they suspected were guilty without either getting the person's lawyer or a court involved (such as a summons from a grand jury or a court-ordered deposition*) because it would be a waste of their time.

    *In both cases a person who is actually guilty can "plead the fifth" but a witness who is a "on the police's radar" but who is innocent generally cannot.

    --
    Note - I realize this is slightly off-topic and that it repeats something I said earlier in this discussion, but it needed to be said and it's worth a stand-alone comment.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Cooperating may be in your short-term interest by TallGuy · · Score: 1

      I disagree with your short-term interest argument. Law enforcement does not have your best interest in mind. You do not know what is or is not legal. (Almost) anything can be construed as being illegal. Just shut up and ask for an attorney to be present while they question you.

    2. Re:Cooperating may be in your short-term interest by PPH · · Score: 1

      If you think the cop really is out to get you personally

      Mayor of Stockton, CA goes to China and talks with a bunch of Chinese government and business leaders. What do you suppose he might be bringing back? Perhaps some notes on proposals for joint business deals involving his city. DHS gets their hands on it and hand it over to some developer buddies of theirs. Suddenly, commercial lots get scooped up and prices are bid higher. The Chinese look at the market and figure, "Fuck it. Stockton is too damned expensive. We're going elsewhere."

      What do you think DHS is looking for on laptops coming into this country? That's the opposite direction one would expect any kind of espionage to flow.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    3. Re:Cooperating may be in your short-term interest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spyware on the laptop I'd assume.

    4. Re:Cooperating may be in your short-term interest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do you think DHS is looking for on laptops coming into this country? That's the opposite direction one would expect any kind of espionage to flow.

      You overestimate assets' sophistication. The evidence of their collaboration just kinda accumulates on the laptop. And the giant facility they have for searching people is only at entry, not exit.

      I agree it's more likely the border agents were engaged in economic espionage than trying to prevent it, but not just because of the direction the searchee was travelling.

    5. Re:Cooperating may be in your short-term interest by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      So you've done nothing wrong, you are totally innocent. You have $500 in cash in your car. You get pulled over and the nice cops would like to have a look inside your car. You won't mind being $500 out of pocket, thats a small price to pay for cooperating?

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    6. Re:Cooperating may be in your short-term interest by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      I disagree with your short-term interest argument. Law enforcement does not have your best interest in mind. You do not know what is or is not legal. (Almost) anything can be construed as being illegal. Just shut up and ask for an attorney to be present while they question you.

      The whole point of the law is to ensure that everyone is guilty of something, whether they know it or not.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    7. Re:Cooperating may be in your short-term interest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do you suppose he might be bringing back?

      Communism!

  27. If it's his work PC... by davidwr · · Score: 1

    ... then he may rightfully be able to say "I have a duty to my employer to not reveal the password, I won't reveal it unless my supervisor or a court orders me to."

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:If it's his work PC... by tchdab1 · · Score: 1

      The power and respect of the corporation can be invoked by announcing your loyalty, but should corporate fealty be needed to counteract invasive country laws?

  28. Wobbly Much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One does not have to be a fear monger, considering the recent and ongoing breaches of U.S.-government databases, to appreciate the need to make sure employees and officials of *all* government entities' computers are safe from being hacked unknowingly while overseas.

    This is PC gone wild.

  29. They probably suspected him... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...of being involved in illegal gun running, shady land deals, and strip clubs with motorcycle gangs. After all, the NSA intercepted the video evidence of such a conspiracy in Stockton.

  30. Hard drives and smuggled products by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Hard drives can't contain drugs and wouldn't contain smuggled products

    If you listen to Hollywood, hard drives can contain bootleg movies, which are "smuggled products" in the eyes of Hollywood's lawyers.

    They can also contain smuggled trade secrets and for that matter, smuggled state secrets.

    They can also contain smuggled physical goods. In theory - but likely not in practice - you could build a hard drive that had small quantities of illegal drugs inside the drive itself. The reality is that it's simply not cost-effective for drug dealers to try to smuggle drugs in this way.

    Another possibility is that the hard drive itself is being smuggled. Again, this is likely not cost-effective unless it's something "bigger," such as industrial espionage where you steal an prototype drive from a competitor and put it in your laptop (and clone your original drive to it of course so everyone will assume it's the original unless they look closely or physically inspect it), then waltz back to your home country as if nothing had happened.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Hard drives and smuggled products by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They can, but what kind of idiot would be bringing those things into the US that way? We have this thing called the internet that can bring things like that into the US a virtually undetectable way. They might occasionally catch somebody, but is it really worth invading the privacy of thousands more to do it?

  31. I posted this. Didn't realize I wasn't logged in. by gerald.edward.butler · · Score: 1

    Also, they're investigating what happened to the motorcyle gang leader who ran headlong into a semi-truck at highway speeds.

  32. Land of the free, home of the brave... by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

    Sad... we have become what we fought against...

    This is no longer the land of the free, home of the brave...

    R.I.P USA

  33. Spending a night in jail by davidwr · · Score: 4, Interesting

    if you're prepared to spend a night in jail to make your point!

    My hope is that every American who loves our Constitution would be prepared to do just that.

    My fear is that I, myself, am not.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Spending a night in jail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not? If you've never been to jail, then trying it for a day is definitely going to be a much more interesting experience than whatever you had planned for that day.

  34. whatever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does nobody in your country have a backbone?

    A simple "Go fuck yourself. Your move." to force the police state in waiting to either put up or shut up. Either they ship him to Guantanemo, or release him and give him a hefty compensation package once he gets his lawyers involved.

    Mindless acquiescence isn't going to stop them.

  35. browser history, gmail, facebook, whatsapp, ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Obama's arguments make no sense. Sure they can see the laptop as a container. They can open it and see if there isn't any drugs or explosives inside. The laptop of a person is not just a container. It's a gateway to basically his/her whole existence. Will these people just check the hard-drive? Of course not. They will check the facebook account, the gmail account, the browser history, the messaging history, etc... Access to the laptop doesn't equate to a simple body search without a warrant. It equates to a full free lunch search that would otherwise require tens of warrants to tens of big tech companies.

  36. An example by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Perhaps this example will serve:

    The cops arrive at a bar fight. There are 20 people there. There is 1 person seriously injured an unconscious and a couple of people who were obviously involved who are not cooperating.

    There is reason to believe that of the remaining people, a 1 or 2 others were involved and the cops intend to find out who they were and arrest them for disorderly conduct or possibly more serious charges if the facts warrant. The cops also believe that almost everyone saw what happened. For the sake of this example, there is no "duty to intervene" and there is no sign that anyone is legally drunk, so those who stood by and did nothing will not face any criminal charges and neither will the bar owner or his employees.

    For this example, assume that the witnesses and those involved in the bar fight don't know each other and that their cooperation or failure to cooperate with the police won't have any "social consequences" one way or the other. Whatever choice they make, they will not be banned from that bar and they won't gain or lose any friendships or business relationships.

    Also, assume the cops have a reputation for being professionals who act professionally (contrast to the Waco "Twin Peaks" incident).

    The cops detain everyone on-site for questioning, with the intent of letting all of them except the few guilty ones go as soon as they get things sorted out.

    It's getting late and people want to get home so they can get some sleep so they won't be tired at work the next day.

    If everyone clams up, the police will probably keep everyone there for a few hours before "giving up" and will get everyone's name and address. All potential witnesses - including the as-yet-unknown guilty parties - will get summoned to a grand jury or to a similar proceeding if it's a misdemeanor offense, and eventually (unless people forget, innocent people lie, guilty people lie in a convincing manner, or innocent people fraudulently "plead the 5th" to keep from testifying) things will get sorted out and the facts will come out.

    It is clearly in the short term interest of those who were not involved to cooperate and give accurate statements right then and there. If they do, those who were not involved will go home sooner and may avoid having to go to a grand jury. Those who were involved will spend the night in jail and will know they will likely lose at trial so they will probably plead guilty, which means the witnesses won't have to take a day off of work to testify at trial.

    All in all, for the innocent-bystander witnesses, it's a clear-cut case in favor of cooperating with the police if they are only considering their immediate and short-term need to get home and not have to waste time in court in the future.

    Note - this example probably has flaws in it. However, if you are smart enough to spot them, you are probably smart enough to come up with many better examples that show that, on the whole, it is better for a person who is both innocent and who has every reason to believe he is not "a target of an investigation" or "a target of the police" to cooperate.

    As I said in an earlier post, there are situations where it is clearly NOT in a person's short-term interest to cooperate with the police. My list may have been incomplete. However, once it is complete the remaining situations will be common enough that, unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your perspective), my general statement still stands.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:An example by sims+2 · · Score: 1

      So you're saying if they plead guilty you don't have take off work to sit in the courthouse lobby for 3 hours just to find out they have plead guilty? That's not been my experience.

      --
      Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
    2. Re:An example by SvnLyrBrto · · Score: 3, Informative

      As you say, your case has flaws. The glaring one is:

      > Also, assume the cops have a reputation for being
      > professionals who act professionally

      That's a pretty massive assumption. And I don't see how anybody paying attention to the news could miss the rampant police abuse and misconduct. Perhaps twenty years ago, before cellphone cameras, dash cameras, and body cams; you might be able to make that assumption, simply out of ignorance. But now? You'd be pretty daft to do so. And in your example, I'd operate under the assumption that any questioning of me is an attempt to railroad me into a false charge of drunk & disorderly or disturbing the peace or some such. It's just safer that way. My employer gives paid time off for jury duty or to bear witness in court; so doing so would be no inconvenience to me. And being arrested on a fabricated charge, even if it is minor and quickly dismissed, would be a bigger problem than missing out on a couple hours of sleep.

      Best to treat them like poisonous snakes: Avoid them when possible. Keep any interaction as brief and minimal as possible. And don't try to handle them yourself... leave it to the trained professionals (ie. your lawyer).

      --
      Imagine all the people...
    3. Re:An example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some of the "trained professionals (ie. your lawyer) (i.e. authorities on any subject.)" are incompetent, over worked, lazy, or possibly corrupt. I think you need to understand and take and interest in your own case. Review with a critical eye whatever your lawyer says. Also, suggest methods of defense and see how your lawyer explains why they should or should not be utilized.

  37. Lose lose situation... by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

    I'm very disappointed that he capitulated. What about the privacy of everyone who's corresponded with him? Business plans for land use? Negotiations on zoning or leniency granted to companies for failure to comply with ordinances? Political strategies and information on opponents? Resumes, performance reviews, salary information of staff?

    On the other hand, it looks bad if a politician can't be "clean enough" to hand over his computers to authorities. Even if those authorities are underpaid, undertrained thugs which demand all kinds of rights, but take no responsibility for their failure to protect people.

    They put him in a very, very awkward position.

    1. Re:Lose lose situation... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      They put him in a very, very awkward position.

      He can do a lot more from his office than he can from an interrogation room, so he surely made the right decision. It's disappointing, but fairly logical.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Lose lose situation... by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

      It's hard to imagine how they could refuse him entry.

      "Give us your passwords or we won't let you go."

      "Am I under arrest?"

      "no"

      "Am I free to go?"

      "no"

      "Do you know what it means to be under arrest?"

      "You're not under arrest, you're being detained."

      "Oh, I see, a different word is being used. That makes it okay then."

      "Why am I being detained?"

      "We can't tell you."

      "Can I watch while you use my passwords?"

      "No."

      "What if you insert sensitive material on my computer?"

      "WHAT KIND OF MATERAL?!!!"

      "I don't know, the stuff you're looking for?"

      "WHAT DO YOU THINK WE'RE LOOKING FOR??"

      "Can I have a lawyer?"

      "No."

      "I refuse to talk further."

      "You must talk, else you'll make it VERY HARD ON YOURSELF."

      "Don't I have the right to remain silent or something?"

      "I TOLD YOU. YOU ARE NOT UNDER ARREST. YOU DO NOT GET A LAWYER, and YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT."

      "Ok, here's my political life on file, feel free to screw it all up. Can I have your name to sue you if you leak sensitive information?"

      "No."

      "It's a good thing you're letting me go after examining my data... my constituents have potholes which need filling!"

  38. All your rights are belong to us by tchdab1 · · Score: 1

    from SFGate article:

    Silva was also told he had “no right for a lawyer to be present” and that being a U.S. citizen did not “entitle me to rights that I probably thought.”

  39. Re:Any influential person who takes devices to Chi by SvnLyrBrto · · Score: 1

    If they had probable cause that he was working with or spying for China, they should have arrested and charged him openly; not detained him without telling him what he is suspected of and denying him access to legal council. If they didn't have probable cause, they should fuck off and leave him alone.

    That goes for everyone, not just mayors of third-tier cities.

    --
    Imagine all the people...
  40. McAffee as president makes sense more and more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    His goal of enforcing the consitution and privacy is quite appealing.
    The economy doesn't need to enslave us to foster and it's in auto pilot, I think curbing back government from our life won't change how good the economy is, in fact it will force corporate types to take more responsibilities.

  41. Socalim is organized psychopathy by trout007 · · Score: 0

    It is based on taking things by force from people that created or traded things through peaceful actions.

    --
    I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
    1. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by sjames · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, it's based on making sure the many other people who labored to create those things get their fair share. Otherwise you'll have libertarian pseudo-heroes acting as if their 'great works' were accomplished single handed.

    2. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by The+Real+Dr+John · · Score: 1

      Socalism? Really? How about Capitulism? That is people destroying the planet and kicking workers for fun and profit.

      --
      A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
    3. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by The+Real+Dr+John · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but don't expect capitalists to see that simple fact through the cognitive haze of being money drunk.

      --
      A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
    4. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by lgw · · Score: 1, Informative

      Define "fair share" please. Seriously, pick a percentage. Most business require significant capital, and choosing investments wisely is vital to the economy (see bubbles for why), so capital should get more than 0%, right? So what's the labor/capital ratio for pre-salary profits that seems right to you - what part to labor as pay, what part to capital as net profits? 80% labor? More?

      Once you've committed to a number, look up total US corporate earnings as a percentage of total US salaries, and see if we're actually that different from what you think is fair (publically traded companies are about half of the US economy, and the P/E of the S&P500 is a good stand-in for that). Of course, most small business owners also work their asses off, so you might want to give them some credit (that's the non-public-stock half of the economy).

      Willing to do the homework, or just want to rant in ignorance?

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    5. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by sjames · · Score: 1

      Actually, P/E is a terrible measure these days given the crazy valuations in the market. It would be fine with sane valuations. But I agree in principle that capital is worth more than 0.

      But even minus a specific metric, it would stand to reason that pay should have scaled roughly with productivity in a fair system. But note that pay is stagnant for decades while productivity has risen steadily.

      Another metric would be executive compensation to median wage. That has gone from 30 or so up into the hundreds.

      Small business actually tends to be a bit closer to reasonable since the owner tends to also act as an employee (out of necessity).

      It's funny you mention bubbles. We seem to have a lot of them. That would be capital sucking royally at it's job. What is supposed to happen when you suck royally at your job? When's the last time you saw a former investment banker asking "want fries with that?"?

      Perhaps once the more egregious abuses are hammered out and the question can be discussed rationally and publically, we can settle on reasonable numbers. But first we need to get the thumbs off of the scale.

    6. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by lgw · · Score: 1

      P/E is how you deduce earnings from valuations (which are no more crazy than they were since the invention of the publically traded corporation in the 1600s).

      Another metric would be executive compensation to median wage

      That has everything to do with envy and jealousy, and little to do with how much people actually get paid. If the CEO get paid 300x what the median worker does, but his company has 100,000 employees? Again, math.

      It's funny you mention bubbles. We seem to have a lot of them. That would be capital sucking royally at it's job.

      And almost always they're broke afterwards. Bailouts are the exception, not the norm.

      Perhaps once the more egregious abuses are hammered out and the question can be discussed rationally and publically

      So right, you don't actually care if it's already fair, you just want to parrot talking points like a poorly-written chatbot. Fair enough, you're normal for /. these days.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    7. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by sjames · · Score: 1

      It is clearly not already fair. Perhaps you have Stockholm syndrome.

      Executive compensation isn't a matter of envy, it's a matter of fairness. If the CEO is worth a million a year for 6 hour days and a retirement package that can support him for life, even if he gets fired for non-performance, why isn't the guy putting in 60 hr/week designing the products that the company can't stay in business without? Why not the people actually making the products that the company cannot bring in even a penny without?

      As for the bailouts and such, how many times has Trump folded the tent in bankruptcy? He doesn't look broke to me.

      Al Dunlap has a net worth estimated at $100 million. That after a lifetime of fraud and corruption earning him the 'award' of 6th worst CEO of all time (not to mention a number of lawsuits and SEC fines).That is the norm. The many many people he 'chainsawed' didn't fare that well. I would not call a net worth of $100,000,000 'broke'.

    8. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by Foobar+of+Borg · · Score: 1

      It is based on taking things by force from people that created or traded things through peaceful actions.

      You mean like how all the extra wealth created by the advance of technology has gone into the hands of just a few people? And how corporations don't pay enough tax to support the infrastructure they enjoy? And how many corporations get special tax breaks and subsidies, some even paying no tax and getting refunds?

      Thanks to technology, most working people produce much more than they did a few years ago. The job my mom had when I was growing up doesn't exist anymore since it is not needed. Yet, despite all these advances in productivity, most people cannot even get by on two salaries. Yet, one used to be able to have a small house on a decent lot with one salary.

      Not paying people their fair value based on the work they do is a more pernicious form of stealing.

    9. Re: Socalim is organized psychopathy by Redmancometh · · Score: 1

      "overpaid" exec here...chief information officer. If I got to work 60 hours it would be a blessing. Most executives work literally twice the hours, and cause 10x more to happen per given hour than any employee there. Then we go home and file dailies/weeklies and get 4hrs of sleep.

      Outside of leviathan-esque companies this is mostly true

    10. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 2

      well, then it's lucky for all of us Bernie isn't pushing an actual "socialist" platform. He's an anti-corporatism all the way, to the point ALEC has been attacking him for several months already. By the logic of your post, I'd add "corporatism is financial psychopathy" as we're moving towards a corporate oligarchy here in the US quite quickly.

      And corporations aren't "peaceful" in their actions by any means. They start wars to get to resources, have "accidents" all the time that kill hundreds (if not thousands) of people because they cheaped out somewhere. Outsourcing 10+ percent of your workforce every six months overseas is only "peaceful" to people (and their employees are people too) if your definition of peace is "!=personal physical violence". They poison entire ecosystems, poison their own employees, run entire countries...and it appears the WORST that ever happens is some fines.

    11. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by lgw · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You're supposed to outgrow "fair" by age 8 or so, you know. The world's not supposed to be fair, it's supposed to be righteous, or failing that, just. Fair is pretty lame: imagine a court system in which guilt or innocence was judged by a perfectly fair coin flip. Totally impartial, unbiased, fair, and stupid.

      CEOs, movie actors, and professional athletes all get paid a lot, and for the same reason, but there are so few of each we're not getting less because of it. Is it just? Hard to say: they have a large audience, and when they do well at their jobs they do make a lot of people happy. The idiots get paid well too, but that's life for you.

      But if you keep obsessing on targets of envy or outrage, you'll always be unhappy, as there will always be guys like that. Get over it, if you want to be happy. Better to focus on a system that makes your life better, most people's life better, than to focus on taking away from people. The more you learn to feel joy in the success of others, and the more you do to help others be successful (even those who don't deserve it), the happier you'll be.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    12. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      What about when a CEO fires "just enough" people to get their multimillion dollar bonus, even when it actually hurts the company down the road? The current corporate system has far more problems than just wealth re-distribution. Unethical outsourcing, environmental destruction, collisions to create bubbles, free-for-all commodities markets (like those that caused the mortgage crisis), no real repercussions for any of it. Yet too restrictive of regulatory systems causes competition in less restrictive areas to gain advantage; it's impossible to be "ethical" and still survive as a multi-national corp when your competition has factories in places that mandate suicide nets or employ under-age orphans as a routine business practice.

      No one here on Slashdot could possibly come up with any workable policy on the fly anyway, I'm sure Bernie has quite detailed policies in mind for much of this already. He will still have to work mostly within the existing framework anyway, I have no idea just how much capabilities the Executive branch has in actually affecting real change...it can quickly send us into a war (at least for a while before Congress can even have a say), but didn't even prosecute bank employees who fraudulently changed loan contracts after they where signed.

    13. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by trout007 · · Score: 1

      If the labor agrees to a voluntary wage then they are getting their fair share. It takes a tremendous amount of capital to make a laborer as productive as they are in modern life. The laborer puts nothing on the line. If the company goes under they are just out of a job.

      --
      I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
    14. Re: Socalim is organized psychopathy by sjames · · Score: 1

      "Cause to happen"? You mean "tell other people to do". I have no idea of the size of your company or your compensation, but I did say above that things are different in smaller companies.

    15. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by sjames · · Score: 1

      Socialism focuses on giving "the rest of us" more of the benefits of our labor. It is more the people in opposition like you who seem interested in continuing to take away.

      A few actors make boatloads of cash because they become stars. Most make very little. CEOs make a fortune because tyhey sit on each other's boards and vote each other raises on a quid pro quo basis. Same thing would happen if janitors were responsible for deciding what other janitors get paid.

      As for the rest, it sounds a lot more like hipster cynicism than actual philosophy. Fair is actually hard wired into most people's brains.

    16. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by sjames · · Score: 2

      The laborer agrees to a wage under the gun though. They can't afford to just withdraw from the job market nor can they import new employers from overseas if they don't like the jobs on offer. The playing field is consistently slanted through political manipulation.

      Fundamentally, money attracts money, it's an unstable system that without correction tends to leave a few holding the bulk of it while the rest starve. The next step, of course is all the money loses it's value and the whole thing starts over. Really, that's not good for anyone concerned.

    17. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by jbwolfe · · Score: 1

      Define "fair share" please.

      I can tell you what its isn't. It isn't executives getting paid the current exorbitant salaries- nobody is worth that. And they rarely seem to answer for failure. And it isn't living on $40K-$60K annual income in the US right now either.

      You two seem to be arguing your positions on the premise that socialism and capitalism lie at exclusive and opposite extremes. The two can coexist. We have social security and free market economy, but both are in need of change. Here's some numbers you requested: http://www.deptofnumbers.com/i... and http://www.pewresearch.org/fac... and http://www.pewresearch.org/fac...

      I think they show it is getting harder out there for working stiffs. Would you agree executive salaries are out pacing worker gains?

      --
      Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
    18. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by ultranova · · Score: 1

      It is based on taking things by force from people that created or traded things through peaceful actions.

      By contrast, socialism is about making sure the labourers get to keep the fruits of their labours, rather than having the owning class confiscate them.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    19. Re: Socalim is organized psychopathy by dbIII · · Score: 1
      Now that's way over the top bullshit and you know it - you really only get 120 hours of sleep a month and work 120 hours every week? A late night here and there is working hard but such over the top lies to boast about how your time is far too important to ever take time to take a shit is the sort of misinformation we should not be feeding the kiddies no matter how self important it makes you feel.
      Sure, I know doctors who've done those hours for a couple of months running, actually "causing 10x more to happen per given hour" than you or I have even done, but they can't live like that in the long term and I'll bet you are not either.

      Outside of leviathan-esque companies this is mostly true

      Now that is where your misinformation is getting truly disgusting and where it can actually fool some of the kiddies with little life experience. You should be ashamed of yourself, but you are probably really some nineteen year old political intern doing "social media work" instead of being a CIO and feel no shame.

    20. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Keep on obsessing over outrage, UNLESS you are prepared to live in an unrestrained capitalism where you live in barracks and are fed noodles at the company cafreteria at YOUR expense and THEIR profit.
      No, when the creator of the Mouse got 100 dollars, we should all have known that Capitalists were taking far too much of the pie
      Save the nation. Ban any and all inheritance. No more multigenerational income without labor.

    21. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by lgw · · Score: 1

      Socialism focuses on giving "the rest of us" more of the benefits of our labor.

      You keep missing my entire point: you're already getting 90%+ of the benefits of your labor! There really is just a tiny slice of the pie left going to capital and management*. Socialism in practice works by borrowing money (not only Socialism, of course) to live beyond your means - not economically sustainable. The one exception being countries with huge net exports of natural resources, for them it's a good model (Norway: there's a reason they don't want the Euro).

      As for the rest, I'm mostly quoting the Dalai Lama and the core beliefs of a large religion (and a few confused hippies in the US). He's quite a happy guy all things considered, and quite rational with thoroughly reasoned arguments for his beliefs (and perhaps the only theocrat in history to end his own theocracy). The bit about "righteous is better than just is better than fair" is a core Christian belief, but one shared by most adults.

      *The big exception being "bailouts", which are the worst sort of government corruption, and threaten to destroy America out right if they become normal. We barely survived the Bushbama bailouts to the investment banks and GM, not sure we'd survive corruption at that scale again soon.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    22. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by lgw · · Score: 1

      It's funny, every week on Slashdot I see both

      * The government is totally corrupted by corporations and no longer represents the people; and
      * We need to give the government more power to regulate corporations ... often in the same post! With the current system of elections, the government is useless in regulating except in the most basic and broad ways (way the are directly obvious to voters), and needs to be prevented from doing anything more, as it doesn't (and won't) act in our interests with an additional power.

      Also, your "they terk our jerbs" rant makes you look like a fool, just so you know.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    23. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by lgw · · Score: 1

      I can tell you what its isn't. It isn't executives getting paid the current exorbitant salaries- nobody is worth that

      Other than jealousy and envy, who cares? You're not making less because they're making more, same with pro athletes and movie stars.

      The US GDP is about $60k per citizen right now. Total salaries of all US workers will always be close to GDP - that's just how it works (those retired on a government check get paid from those working, so that nets out). We're simply not that far off from perfectly equal distribution, which makes sense: what we produce is what we consume, give or take some net imports. Only by increased efficiency (technology) do we sustainable improve standard of living for all.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    24. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by jriding · · Score: 1

      How about this one.
      The CEO or any directory level can only have a salary of 3x the average salary of their employees.
      Investment should be rewarded. Having a valid P&L is important. Paying a majority of your employees minimum wage while you take the check for 100 Million a year is not fair.

      --
      love the taste, hate the texture
    25. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by sjames · · Score: 1

      If you think labor is getting 90%, you are living in fantasy land. $5 worth of materials + $0.50 paid to labor becomes a $200 pair of shoes. Do you really think the lady chained to her bench in wherethefuckisthatistan got 90% of the value of her labor? In a properly free market, do you really think the most odious jobs would fetch the lowest pay?

      Labor will capture it's fair share when unemployment is actually 0%. That is, everyone who needs or wants a job has one and if you want labor, you have to convince people to prefer you over their current employer. Meanwhile, corporate profits are way up even as wages remain flat.

    26. Re: Socalim is organized psychopathy by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      So, even if they do 10 times the work and twice the hours they are making considerably more then 10 times the income: http://www.payscale.com/data-p...

      If what you say is true, it explains why things are so bad. Elitists who don't think anyone else can do what they are doing so poorly. You don't get 100% when your putting in the hours and workload your talking about. Especially if the job is thinking, planning, and creative.

    27. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Corporatism and Managementism are not Capitalism!

    28. Re: Socalim is organized psychopathy by OffTheWallSoccer · · Score: 1

      Now that's way over the top bullshit and you know it - you really only get 120 hours of sleep a month and work 120 hours every week?

      Stop making shit up. From his statement he gets 4 hours of sleep after going home, i.e. per *weeknight*, but he could get 10 hours' sleep per night on the weekends, for all we know. And he said execs work twice as much, so if most people work 40 hours, then he is has an 80-hour work week, not 120. Even if "most people" work 45 or 50 hours, he would be working 90 or 100 hours, still less than your 120.

    29. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by stridebird · · Score: 1

      Union Carbide Bhopal. It was actually the first thing that came to my mind on that September morning back a few years. 8000 people died overnight, thousands more over the years since then. By a cost-cutting cheap ass US company that has never been properly held to account for its actions.

    30. Re: Socalim is organized psychopathy by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Come off it - if his mythical week involves only getting four hours of sleep every work night that implies not being able to shift some work onto the weekend and get more sleep.
      It's bullshit and if you cannot see it then I have a bridge to sell you.

    31. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hush child. You're a good doggy, a smart boy...a clever boy !

      Good dog.

      Now, get back to work. You're not being paid to grovel at your masters feet 24/7.

    32. Re: Socalim is organized psychopathy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you put up with it ?

      Seriously.....why ?

      I'm curious. Are they paying you a $ million/year ?

      If not, why do you put up with being a modern day slave ?

      I really want to know. Please...........

      What's in it for you ?

    33. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      You're supposed to outgrow "fair" by age 8 or so, you know. The world's not supposed to be fair, it's supposed to be righteous, or failing that, just. Fair is pretty lame: imagine a court system in which guilt or innocence was judged by a perfectly fair coin flip. Totally impartial, unbiased, fair, and stupid.

      That is not the usual meaning of the word "fair" as you are presumably aware.

      A "fair" justice system means that everyone is treated equally in the eyes of the law, not that you have to have an equal number of innocent and guilty verdicts.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    34. Re: Socalim is organized psychopathy by tehcyder · · Score: 2

      If you are regularly working 120 hours a week and getting 4 hours of sleep a night, you are not performing at anywhere near your best for most of the time.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    35. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      You keep missing my entire point: you're already getting 90%+ of the benefits of your labor! There really is just a tiny slice of the pie left going to capital and management*.

      Even if your numbers are correct, getting 10% from every working person makes a huge pot, especially as it's only shared by a small number of people.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    36. Re: Socalim is organized psychopathy by tehcyder · · Score: 1
      1. OP said that most executives work twice as hard as someone working 60 hours a week. Twice 60 is 120.

      2. If you're working 120 hours a week, you are also working at the weekends, as that's still 17 hours a day over 7 days (over 5 days it would be, um, 24 hours a day and you're getting into Four Yorkshiremen territory there).

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    37. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by lgw · · Score: 1

      The topic is the US, friend. Yes, East Elbonia sucks, but then those jobs are often the best available in-country, so there's no easy answers there.

      In a properly free market, do you really think the most odious jobs would fetch the lowest pay?

      Supply and demand, friend, supply and demand. Jobs that few people can do will pay more than jobs anyone can do, even if they'd only do it as a last resort. (Truly odious jobs do command a premium, of course, but only relative to similar, less-odious work).

      Labor will capture it's fair share when unemployment is actually 0%. That is, everyone who needs or wants a job has one

      You don't deserve a job as a reward for breathing. You must contribute something that others in society want or need enough to pay for. If you have no skills that enable you to do that (and that's a moving target, as automation progresses), you shouldn't expect a job. You could reasonably expect help with the cost of training, however, and the US is in this weird place where we encourage people who need vocational training to instead go to college and get no job skills and $50k in debt. That's certainly a serious issue we need to fix.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    38. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by lgw · · Score: 1

      More than half of Americans own stock, directly or indirectly. It was up to 2/3s before the 08 crash. I fully encourage others to invest as I have, to take ownership of the means of production (I've lived on half my take-home pay for nearly 20 years now, and it definitely adds up).

      However, keep in mind that one equal portion of all the publicly traded stock in the US is only about the same as a year's median wage, and the earnings on that are only about 5%. That's not going to make a real difference.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    39. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by sjames · · Score: 1

      The topic is the US, friend. Yes, East Elbonia sucks, but then those jobs are often the best available in-country, so there's no easy answers there.

      Yes, it is, such as the U.S. corporation that sells the shoes for $200 a pair and refuses to employ a person from the U.S. to make them because they can chain a woman to a bench somewhere else and get it done for slave wages. So the U.S. worker that should be employed isn't and the lady from wherever gets nothing like the real value of her labor.

      You don't deserve a job as a reward for breathing.

      You may not mind stepping over the bodies of those who didn't get a job, but I have a problem with that. If you are going to make having a job necessary to live, you damn well better have jobs available that actually pay enough to live. Otherwise, they are well justified in defying any law necessary to make that living. Other than the disabled, everyone is capable of doing something useful, but there simply don't seem to be enough jobs available for them to all have one now. That condition will continue to get worse.

      As for training, do you suggest they steal the money they need for tuition? Because that's pretty much their only option right now other than do without. Of course, you assume for some reason there will actually be jobs for all of them once they are better trained, but I see no reason to believe that is true. For those that do get employed that way, they will still be paid less than their productivity would justify, just like nearly everyone that does have a job.

    40. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by wyHunter · · Score: 1

      On a per capita basis, highly developed capitalist economies pollute less. Explain that.

    41. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by The+Real+Dr+John · · Score: 1

      The US is one of the largest polluters on the planet, as I am sure you know. Explain that. China is instituting more strict laws now than the US because their air is unbreathable. Fracking has been exempted from clear air and water act provisions here in the US. So what is your point? The highly developed "capitalist" countries that pollute less per capita have much stricter pollution laws than in the US. But even in those countries, like Germany, you have VW going way out of its way to cheat on pollution.

      --
      A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
    42. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by lgw · · Score: 1

      Good luck with your Utopia where no one does productive work (but everyone has jobs). Why you'd make people do needless busywork instead of just giving them money is unclear, but hey, it's your Utopia. I'm sure it will work out as well all all the other Utopias man has tried.

      In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
      By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
      But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
      And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    43. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by lgw · · Score: 1

      But everyone should not be treated equally in the eyes of the law - the guilty should be treated differently than the innocent - that's rather the point, after all. There are many totally impartial and unbiased systems one could contrive (like flipping a coin) that would in no way serve justice, but would be perfectly fair.

      And justice is hardly the ideal goal anyhow. The ideal goal is to do the right thing. Hard to get much agreement on what that is, of course, but for particularly egregious mismatches between the law and the Good we have jury nullification, for example.
       

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    44. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by sjames · · Score: 1

      Any thought of people doing un-needed busywork is your own fantasy since I certainly never proposed it. Personally, I think it would make a lot more sense to reduce the workweek to accommodate full employment. I also never claimed a utopia, just an improvement over the current situation. You *DO* favor improvement, don't you?

    45. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      Exactly. More regulations born from our bought-and-paid corporate subsidiary government just stack the regulations in favor of the companies hiring the Congresscritters.

      What we need is to get corporate money out of politics. The only corporate money to be handled by anyone in the government should be taxes, fines, and contracts to do things for the people. Less regulation helps the corporations. More regulation helps the corporations even more, because it favors the entrenched ones (taxi companies over Uber, cable TV monopolies over Netflix, Clearchannel over Spotify) over the ones doing the business of capitalism -- selling new, improved products that would compete better if given the chance.

    46. Re:Socalim is organized psychopathy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow....you really are their bitch, aren't you ?

      Good doggie......good boy !

      Have a biscuit.

    47. Re: Socalim is organized psychopathy by OffTheWallSoccer · · Score: 1

      Admittedly, I do buy the occasional bridge.

  42. I Love This Sort of Thing by sudon't · · Score: 1

    "Unfortunately, they were not willing or able to produce a search warrant or any court documents suggesting they had a legal right to take my property. In addition, they were persistent about requiring my passwords for all devices,” Silva said.

    I always get a big kick out of hearing the reactions of middle-class people when they run into law enforcement, and aren't treated like middle-class people. They're never prepared for the reality, because they were taught in school that they had "rights", and all that other baloney.

    "Silva was also told he had “no right for a lawyer to be present” and that being a U.S. citizen did not “entitle me to rights that I probably thought.”

    Yep. I tell ya, if middle-class people always got the same treatment as poor folk, it'd be a different country pretty quickly.

    --
    -- sudon't

    Air-ride Equipped

  43. Is he fired now? by tompaulco · · Score: 1

    By giving up his password, he is in violation of his city's computer security protocols. The same is true for probably just about everybody on slashdot. We have no right or authority to give over our passwords to anyone. We also have no right to allow anyone to view any information on our company's computer equipment. In some cases, anyone viewing that information may be in violation of state or federal laws. At my previous position, anyone viewing that information would first have to take an approved HIPAA training class and then sign a release and notify all of the affected parties.

    --
    If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    1. Re:Is he fired now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By giving up his password, he is in violation of his city's computer security protocols. The same is true for probably just about everybody on slashdot. We have no right or authority to give over our passwords to anyone. We also have no right to allow anyone to view any information on our company's computer equipment. In some cases, anyone viewing that information may be in violation of state or federal laws. At my previous position, anyone viewing that information would first have to take an approved HIPAA training class and then sign a release and notify all of the affected parties.

      Exactly. About a decade ago I was flying on domestic flight with Canada and a "security screener" demanded I power-up the notebook computer. I explained it would be a violation of a standing order issued by the military due to the sensitivity of the data on the computer. He said "All I need to see is the boot screen." I replied he was free to contact my CO, General X, and handed him my letter of authorisation. Needless to say the conversation ended immediately.

  44. As long as Obama has to do the same thing by tompaulco · · Score: 2

    As long as they make Obama drag out his laptops and his Blackberry every time he re-enters the country, then I am fine with them doing that to mayors and to us, too. After all, a leader must lead by example, or he is no leader at all.

    --
    If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  45. USA! USA! USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    America has won; it now does a better job of terrorizing its citizens than the Islamists everywhere else.

  46. Re:Any influential person who takes devices to Chi by whoever57 · · Score: 1

    surrenders them to Chinese authorities without a peep of complaint, and brings them back to the US and is surprised when federal spooks ....

    None of which has anything to do with border security and customs. Do you really think that anyone cares enough to spy on the mayor of a small town in rural California?

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  47. which worse Constitutional, feds or your state? by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Which do you think is the lesser of two evils right now, the federal government or your state?

    1. Re:which worse Constitutional, feds or your state? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which do you think is the lesser of two evils right now, the federal government or your state?

      An ill-informed Slashdotter is the most evil thing in this thread.

  48. Re:Any influential person who takes devices to Chi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this.

    US research scientists routinely surrender their "travel" laptop and smartphone to the DHS/TSA/Whatever folks when they return to the US from China.

    problem solved.

  49. If you are crossing the border... by mschwanke97402 · · Score: 1

    ...no warrant is required to search your person and property. Though there is a recent 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruling saying this does not apply to digital content on an electronic device and that people can't be forced to provide passwords, I doubt it stands up when the Supremes rule, we'll see.

    One of the big things the customs people look for on laptops and the like is child pornography. A lot of perverts travel to the far east to play with little boys and girls, taking pictures to remember their fun.

    As far as I am concerned, if you are crossing a border, expect a thorough search and behave accordingly.

  50. And this sort of thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...is why I don't go to the U.S. anymore. I simply refuse to deal with any of this crap.

  51. DHS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I will bet everything I own that they could not find anything hidden on a drive more than 3 directory's deep and embedded in anything at all.
    The Amount of incompetency is like a public educator.

    1. Re:DHS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they hold you for an extended period of time, they copy your raw harddrive data. Once you hand over the password, they can stop trying to crack the encryption. If there was no encryption, then they don't even need your password.

  52. See Electronic Frontier Foundation guide re border by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Defending Privacy at the U.S. Border: A Guide for Travelers Carrying Digital Devices
    https://www.eff.org/wp/defending-privacy-us-border-guide-travelers-carrying-digital-devices

    Apparently, they can do this.

  53. Man bites dog. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    The rest of us keep being treated routinely like criminals without the media getting interested, because we aren't the mayor of Stockton. Why should this guy get special treatment (by [...] the press) just because he's a minor elected politico?

    Dog bites man isn't news. Man bites dog is news.

    They slipped up and used the tactics they usually use on civilians on a civilian official. They don't usually do that, so the event was newsworthy.

    Whether it leads to action against the TSA, just a little more care on their part to identify VIPs, or squat is yet to be seen.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  54. Re:Any influential person who takes devices to Chi by ayesnymous · · Score: 1

    Correct me if I'm wrong but this sort of thing happens regardless of which country you came back from.

  55. Correction - American has *WON* ! by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 2

    ... still has not won the *real* war on terror ...

    Where the hell have you been??

    America has _won_ the war on terror hands down, so much so that all of us are goddamn ***TERRIFIED BY OUR OWN FUCKING GOVERNMENT*** !!!

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
  56. As some added detail: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stockton is the deepest (in both geography and depth) port in California. There is a Port of Sacramento, but as I understand, it is too shallow to recieve oceangoing vessels, making the Port of Stockton the closest transfer point outside of Vallejo for Central and Northern California's international shipping needs.

  57. he was selling IP to China by PJ6 · · Score: 1

    I don't know what all the outrage is all about. This is a good example of the DHS and a few other three-letter agencies performing their primary duty - prevent (and perpetrate) industrial espionage. Why do you think warrantless wiretapping the whole country is so important? It has nothing do do with terrorism, that doesn't even pass the giggle test. It's about serving US business interests.

  58. Constitutional Republic by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    Isn't one of the attributes you want in a politician a "flip flop" position based on popular opinion ?

    The USA's political system is intentionally based on something else.

    Isn't that the point of a democracy, representing popular opinion?

    Yes, it is. But the USA isn't a democracy. It's a constitutional republic. So the highest level concern isn't what the majority wants, instead, it is the constitutionality of the "want.". A concrete example: if the popular opinion, say 75% of the electorate, wants deep south-style-1800's style slavery, the government is prohibited from implementing it even so, by the over-riding authority of the constitution.

    Democracy has been very accurately described as "3 wolves and 2 sheep voting on what's for dinner."

    A republic such as ours is also vulnerable to this kind of problem if the representatives are poorly chosen. The USA is presently deep in the throes of exactly that; in fact, so deep in it that it has also infected the non-elected agencies and bureaus that the politicians control; and further, now the control inputs to the politicians are coming from a relatively small set of moneyed and otherwise powerful interests. This has turned the USA into a de-facto oligarchy.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:Constitutional Republic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Incorrect.

      The US is a democracy. A republic (constitutional or otherwise) is a form of democracy.

      As you're American I understand if you don't quite grasp the concepts involved. I blame your educational system, or lack thereof.

      Carry on.

  59. Congress-care by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    Yes, the healthcare system that congress implemented has had an effect on the economy. Congress-care, as it were.

    Obama suggested single-payer. Congress made very sure he didn't get it.

    Instead we got welfare for the insurance companies.

    Same story, different day.

    The president's own limited power can only really come into effect WRT foreign policy (which options include a broad, thought not unlimited, palette of military actions.) On other matters, you should probably think of him as the "suggester-in-chief."

    Then again, there are executive orders, sigh.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  60. DHS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The TSA is the secret police of the US state. They obey none of the limits imposed on the power of the state by the constitution. The USA may be the home of the brave, but it is no longer the land of the free.

  61. The Handbag Argument by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    What you are arguing here is that following the constitution is inconvenient for the government in that it makes some part of its job (catching contraband) more difficult.

    Now go read the constitution. The entire bill of rights is an exercise in making things more difficult for the government. Can they restrict your speech? No. Doesn't matter if you're calling them a bunch of numb-nutted fucktards. They still can't. There are no exceptions. Can they infringe on your right to bear arms? No. Even if that means you walk into the courtroom with a sword on your hip. There are no exceptions. Can they require you to quarter soldiers in your home? No. No matter what. There are no exceptions.

    Now, ask yourself: WTF is going on when a judge - at any level - or congress - says otherwise? It's as plain as day: They are violating the constitution.

    There is not one word in the fourth that says, or in any way implies, "except at the border." Including the word "unreasonable", which simply is telling you that any process that does not comply with the fourth IS what is unreasonable. The fourth lays out the precise formula for reasonable:

    "no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

    Anything else is unreasonable.

    Otherwise, the fourth has no teeth whatsoever and might as well not be there at all. Which is straight-up absurdity.

    Therefore, no such "at the border" exception actually exists.

    Much less in a band of land extending 100 miles into the body of the country.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  62. Christianity by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    Mahatma Gandhi — 'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  63. A Phoney Assumption by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    Just toss the phone in the industrial shredder before turning it on.

    Just so you know, your phone is almost certainly always on, as long as the battery is in place and holding a charge. The suggestion that you have to "turn it on" has no relation to what the phone will be doing before it is turned on, which is basically anything the software/firmware in place tells it to do. Turning it on means you get to see and interact with the UI, and not much else.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  64. Re:America [Don't Mod Down Important Facts] by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Re-posting this above Goldsteinberg's comment.. np. Anti-Christians are guaranteed psychopaths and sociopaths. Jews are anti-Christians.

    http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=8113013&cid=50655219

    Bernie is sounding better all the time.

    What is Bernie's plan for the TSA?

    Irrelevant. We are at maximum overjew already. Yellen, Bernanke, Greenspan... 18 trillion in debt... We have been living the Jewish dream for a while already, and I don't see anybody cheering for more of it.

    Presidential candidates pledging allegiance to Israel before being elected... seriously?

    Hollywood is full Jewish...

    Dinosaur media full Jewish...

    Social media... well you figure it out... (pretty Jewish)

    Windows 7/8/8/1/10 global spyware? (Jew-like, at the least)

    When you have a cultural minority making decisions for multiple cultural majorities... expect 18 trillion and a bunch of wars against sand people etc. Expect kids/adults to be indoctrinated by whatever fancies a producer's mind when they sell movies and tv commercials. Expect bias.

    Accidentally in charge of banks-that-fail, accidentally in charge of 18 trillion in-the-red economy, accidentally in charge of domestic/international financial instruments, accidentally selling propaganda literally by every possible worldwide propaganda conduit... while at the same time countries oh... like say Germany... grilling Facebook for anti-Semitic posts? Poor Jews after all? Managing the global reserve currency (USD) is so pleb and victimized. (mismanaging)

    http://www.eutimes.net/2015/09/germans-opposing-immigration-on-facebook-facing-jail-fines-kids-stolen-and-job-loss/

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3249667/Germany-state-SIEGE-Merkel-cheered-opened-floodgates-migrants-gangs-men-roaming-streets-young-German-women-told-cover-mood-s-changing.html

    Just all big accidents and coincidences right. All tin foil stories. No way in Hell it could be related right.

    The 1st republican debate on Fox News was sponsored by Facebook and Fox News. It was subscriber only. Seriously.

    So Bernie Sanders' plan should be somewhere between retirement and microphone sales. Nothing about TSA is relevant.

    Relevant is that Judaism is anti-Christian.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/category/tags/otc-derivatives
    http://investmentwatchblog.com/90-of-700-trillion-derivatives-market-contracts-held-by-jpmorgan-goldman-sachs-bofa-citigroup-and-wells-fargo/
    http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/02/16/who-owns-bank-of-america.aspx
    http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/02/20/who-owns-wells-fargo.aspx
    http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/02/19/who-owns-jpmorgan-chase.aspx
    http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/02/22/who-owns-goldman-sachs.aspx
    http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/02/21/who-owns-citigroup.aspx
    http://ftmdaily.com/preparing-for-the-collapse-of-the-petrodollar-system/
    http://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fiatmoney.asp
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu_VqX6J93k
    http://www.bis.org/statistics/derstats.htm