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Western Digital To Buy SanDisk (reuters.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Reuters reports that Western Digital will buy SanDisk in a deal worth roughly $19 billion. In a press release, WD said, "The combination is the next step in the transformation of Western Digital into a storage solutions company with global scale, extensive product and technology assets, and deep expertise in non-volatile memory (NVM)." SanDisk has been in business since 1988, and primarily "manufactures flash memory chips and other digital storage for personal computers, data centers and consumer electronics, including smartphones and tablets." They have over 8,000 employees, compared to WD's ~76,000. This follows another major transaction in the storage market, when Dell bought EMC last week.

99 comments

  1. In other words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    SDDs will not fall below $1/GB for a very long time.

    1. Re:In other words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SDDs will not fall below $1/GB for a very long time.

      Where have you been shopping? Best Buy even has SSD/s > $1/GB

    2. Re:In other words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SDDs will not fall below $1/GB for a very long time.

      Where have you been shopping? Best Buy even has SSD/s > $1/GB

      Fk me. LESS THAN. $1/GB.

    3. Re:In other words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      SSD's are typically right around $0.33/GB on the low end (up to 256GB), with prices closer to $0.30/GB at the higher end (480GB-1TB).

      The best prices right now are around $40 for 120GB, $75-80 for 240/256GB, $150-170 for 480-512GB, and $300-ish for 960GB-1TB.

    4. Re:In other words by r1348 · · Score: 1

      They already did: I bought my 500GB Crucial MX200 for 160€.

    5. Re:In other words by Guspaz · · Score: 3, Informative

      SSDs fell below $1/GB years ago. They've been stuck around $0.30-0.40/GB for a while.

    6. Re:In other words by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      Agreed with parent - my own 500GB Crucial BX100 cost me ~$215 on newegg back in March ($0.43/GB), and now retails on newegg for $180 ($0.36/GB)... a $35 drop in 7 months.

      This leads to a question: Who the frig is stupid enough to still be paying $1/GB for SSD disk?

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    7. Re: In other words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Worse: SSDs soon to be above $1/GB coming soon.

    8. Re:In other words by pushing-robot · · Score: 2

      Many computer manufacturers still charge ~$1/GB for SSDs.

      Gods help you if your new machine takes an unusual SSD or is hard to disassemble.

      --
      How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
    9. Re: In other words by jd2112 · · Score: 1

      Why? Are they the only company making SSDs? Seems to me WD sees that SSDs will eventually replace spinning media for most applications and want to be prepared. I'm surprised it took them this long.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    10. Re:In other words by Krojack · · Score: 1

      Name some? I paid $300 for my Samsung 840 EVO SSD (500GB) back in Dec 2013. Almost 2 years ago the price was under $1/GB

      You can now get the 850 model for $180.

    11. Re:In other words by pushing-robot · · Score: 1

      Companies like Apple, Dell, Microsoft, and HP all charge $0.80-$1.00 per gigabyte, sometimes even more, to preconfigure many of their systems with SSDs.

      If your PC is easy to disassemble and is compatible with any 2.5"/M.2/m.SATA drive you can buy a cheap aftermarket drive like the 850 EVO (I've seen that 500GB hit $135).
      But if your machine is glued together (like the Surface Pro) or uses a non-standard interface (like the MacBook Air) you're pretty well screwed. Even M.2 compatibility is hit and miss, especially with all the variants (30/42/60/80/110mm length, M/B/M+B keying, SATA/PCI-e 2.0/3.0 x2/x4, AHCI/NVMe...)

      --
      How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
    12. Re:In other words by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1

      Many computer manufacturers still charge ~$1/GB for SSDs.

      See my earlier post on this, at the low end you're paying several dollars per GB unless you want to go to no-name Chinese vendors.

    13. Re: In other words by goarilla · · Score: 1

      They also bought STEC in 2013, a manufacturer of mostly PCI-Express based Enterprise Flash drives.

    14. Re:In other words by Agripa · · Score: 1

      This leads to a question: Who the frig is stupid enough to still be paying $1/GB for SSD disk?

      Someone who wants power loss protection of unwritten data?

  2. Another consolation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seems like so & so buys such & such for $(lazy eight AFAIC) - how long can big evaluations be consumed until the idea of competition is irrelevant. Not just competition on an economic sales end front, but competition for jobs, for innovation, for, well, anything/everything?

    Hate to use a cliche but, late stage western capitalism seems to have but one inevitable conclusion :/

    1. Re:Another consolation by sims+2 · · Score: 2

      You remember before verizon bought alltel there was the big five? Alltel had unlimited data both for phones and aircards. After verizon bought them? None of those plans are offered anymore. And the fcc said it wouldn't hurt competition yeah I still don't see that.

      No tmobile does not count that's unlimited 2g only. Although I'm sure verizon would be happy to let me pay for unlimited QNC again If I could find a phone that was still compatible.

      --
      Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
    2. Re:Another consolation by Jax+Omen · · Score: 1

      Tmobile currently sells unlimited LTE, you just have to pay more than their basic plan :P

    3. Re:Another consolation by sims+2 · · Score: 2

      Yes on smart phone's only. plans for hotspots/aircards/tablets appear to max out at 11gb (rather odd imho as verizon will let you select up to a 100gb online) unlimited LTE is not offered.

      --
      Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
  3. More consolidation... by TFlan91 · · Score: 2

    I don't like the recent tread of consolidation in the IT market... This needs to stop.

    1. Re:More consolidation... by Kohath · · Score: 4, Funny

      Ok, we'll stop it. We didn't know it was bothering you. Sorry.

      signed -- Worldwide IT Business

    2. Re:More consolidation... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Of course they won't stop voluntarily. That is why we have anti monopoly laws that needs to be enforced if a competitive market is to remain.

    3. Re:More consolidation... by CODiNE · · Score: 1

      This has our backing as well.

      signed -- The Elders of the Internet.

      --
      Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
    4. Re:More consolidation... by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 3, Informative

      The problem is that stock markets still expect the large companies to post revenue growth at the same rates as they did when they were smaller companies. Of course as they get larger and larger it becomes harder to keep up such growth. Growing a $10M company 5% is a lot easier than a $10B company. So they resort to buying other companies to get their growth. Or layoffs in order to improve their income statement.

      Not that I agree with the methods because they are doing them just to help the stock price.

    5. Re:More consolidation... by geantvert · · Score: 2

      Please! Mark parent as Funny

    6. Re:More consolidation... by Solandri · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The HDD market had some of the slimmest margins in the tech industry - about 1%-2%. The HDD manufacturers just weren't making enough money to even keep up with basic R&D. It needed to be consolidated. The floods in Thailand happened to be the straw that broke the camel's back. Unfortunately, they happened right in the middle of the last recession, resulting in what's probably over-consolidation.

      The WD-Hitachi merger still isn't finalized. China hasn't given their final approval. My brother-in-law is working on this for WD and is pulling his hair out over how obtuse the China government has been.

      WD has been buying SSD manufacturers for a while now. Silicon Systems in 2009, then sTec, Skyera. SanDisk is a much bigger name, but this isn't something they just started doing.

    7. Re:More consolidation... by MachineShedFred · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not entirely true.

      There's the concept of a 'growth' stock versus a 'value' stock. Several tech companies (Microsoft, Apple, others) have transitioned into value stocks by starting to pay dividends, stock buybacks, etc.

      Wall Street doesn't *only* care about growth. There's plenty of companies that have single-digit year-over-year gains that do very nicely.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    8. Re:More consolidation... by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      Wall Street still wants to see Apple and Microsoft to have good growth numbers, Apple especially. Analysts are expecting Apple to have an average annual earnings growth rate of 15%. From the same site Microsoft is expected to grow it's earnings at just over 8%.

    9. Re:More consolidation... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      While GP may have been right in principle, the fact is that Western Digital and Sandisk were in two related, but completely different markets. One made hard disk drives, and only moved into SSDs when the latter started getting popular as a successor to HDDs. The other has been making flash memory throughout its history of all form factors ever defined - Compact Flash, MMC, SD cards, xD cards, Memory Sticks, Micro-SDs, Memory SIMs, you name it!!! Two completely different product genres for completely different industries.

      Just like Telecom and Networking crossed each others paths years ago, or like cellular connectivity and WiFi connectivity have been on a converging path, similarly, w/ things like micro SD and USB drives hitting densities that were not too long ago standard for hard disk drives, and hard disk drives themselves migrating to SSDs, it's taken a while before Western Digital and Sandisk found themselves 'competing' against each other. So those in favor of their merger can legitimately argue that they were not competitors or suppliers who merged, but 2 companies from different genres. I guess Seagate would have to look for options - maybe Lexar, maybe IMFT or others to get stronger.

    10. Re:More consolidation... by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      And the "analysts" repeatedly do not listen to guidance from Apple, and then attempt to penalize them when Apple performs exactly as they predicted. These are the same "analysts" that predicted that the iPhone 5C should be a low-cost entry into the 'race to the bottom' that the rest of the mobile manufacturers have going on, trading margin for market share. Then, when Apple didn't do that (because they aren't concerned with growing market share at the cost of gross margin) they declare that model to be a failure, and that Apple can't compete, etc.

      Then the iPhone 5C proceeds to outsell Blackberry, Windows Phone, and every Android flagship phone in 2014Q4. I'd hate to have a 'flop' that moves 24 million units, that's for sure.

      These so-called analysts don't appear to actually analyze what the company is doing, or even what the company is telling them. I have no faith in their estimates whatsoever when it comes to Apple.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    11. Re:More consolidation... by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Slashdot ate my source citation on the iPhone 5C.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
  4. too big to flash by turkeydance · · Score: 0

    fail

  5. 76,000 Employees? by spudnic · · Score: 1

    What does WD do with 76,000 employees? R&D? Manufacturing? Sales? Distribution?

    That just seems like a lot of employees.

    --
    load "linux",8,1
    1. Re:76,000 Employees? by sirwired · · Score: 1

      Manufacturing I imagine; they do, after all, sell a LOT of hard disks, and that's not the sort of thing you can farm out if you are a hard disk company.

    2. Re:76,000 Employees? by r1348 · · Score: 1

      There's this funny little word, that starts with "lay" and end with "offs"...

    3. Re:76,000 Employees? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even in 2015, manufacturing / assembly is a surprisingly people-intensive process. It's just all in Asia, so you don't really see it.

    4. Re:76,000 Employees? by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      It's manufacturing... Intel employs around 107,600 people to make chips, so...

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    5. Re: 76,000 Employees? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Push legislation to grind them up into kitty litter

    6. Re:76,000 Employees? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Not since all the consolidation, at least. Plus WD actually does create their own storage technologies, and thus would have to create the tools and processes to manufacture.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
  6. Lesson Learned by sunderland56 · · Score: 3, Funny

    What we learned today: Western Digital still exists.

    1. Re:Lesson Learned by nukem · · Score: 1

      They also own HGST.

    2. Re:Lesson Learned by Tukz · · Score: 1

      WD are huge in the regular consumer market.
      Nearly everyone I know buys WD for storage disks.

      --
      - Don't do what I do, it's probably not healthy nor safe. -
    3. Re:Lesson Learned by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      What we learned today: Western Digital still exists.

      Wait you didn't know? But that must mean you use Se.... DUDE backup your data NOW while you still can.

    4. Re:Lesson Learned by HalAtWork · · Score: 1

      I buy only WD, their low power/heat drives are perfect for my NAS and have been completely reliable for over 10 years, after that I don't know because it's way past time to swap out for a bigger drive.

    5. Re:Lesson Learned by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently not this guy...

  7. Emperor WD by tripleevenfall · · Score: 2

    Yes I assure you, we are quite safe from your "competition" here.

    1. Re:Emperor WD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm laughing way harder than I should at this.

  8. Writing on the wall by sshir · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So WD realized that hard drive business is kaput.

    No wonder we're still waiting for a 8TB consumer drive from them. They are curbing research spending...

    1. Re:Writing on the wall by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Kaput? Not really, but you only use hard drives for $/TB which means you get hardly any premium for packing it denser. Also streaming is taking over from storing, people watch YouTube and Netflix (and watch&delete torrents) instead of trying to archive everything. The main consumers of hard drives are now large datacenters (and a few slashdotters) running huge RAID boxes.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    2. Re:Writing on the wall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Flash prices are in freefall and package density is increasing proportionally.

      We're starting to reach the point where flash is out-scaling hard drives on the high end. With hard drives you run in to really hard problems to solve when you try to cram a lot of platters in to a tiny space, and then try to mass-produce the things. Moving parts are the bane of.. Well.. Everything.

      With flash you simply pack on some more chips. We're already starting to see SSDs that have a higher density and larger capacity than any available hard drive. Never mind that they're 10-20x faster to boot.

      Sure they're more expensive but the price halfs every time density doubles. And that's happening every 6 months. I can go to costoco and pick up a high end, fast (120mb read, 40mb write) 128-fucking-gigabyte thumb sized flash drive for less than fifty bucks.

      WD sees the writing on the wall. Mechanical hard drives will be on their way out in the near future and WD does not want to be anchored to a sinking industry.

    3. Re:Writing on the wall by RogueyWon · · Score: 1

      Another factor here is that the "enthusiast PC gamer", long a major consumer of large hard drives, is moving rapidly onto SSDs.

      Too many recent games; Watch_Dogs, Dragon Age: Inquisition and, Far Cry 4, to name some of the most serious offenders, have suffered from in-game stutter when running from mechanical drives. The trend towards open-world gaming and higher resolution textures that's picked up speed since the introduction of the PS4 and Xbox One (which remain the main target-platforms for most games) has shone a light on asset streaming and drive-access speeds on PC, which had previously only been an issue when it came to load-times.

      Gamers are starting to realise that there's no point spending thousands of dollars on motherboard, CPU, RAM and graphics card, only to hobble game-performance by running from a cheap mechanical drive.

    4. Re:Writing on the wall by swb · · Score: 2

      I would say not kaput, but you can probably see it from here.

      If innovations like 3D Xpoint from Intel and other "better" flash technologies happen that improve on durability and performance while keeping prices at or below other flash tech, it sure seems to me that the rotational media market will get even thinner.

      There may be some market for rotational media as a way of providing vast quantity now in very large tiered storage systems, but these kinds of systems are probably already flash tiered.

      But any kind of flash that offers durability closer to rotational media at prices closer to current 3D-NAND type flash disks ought to greatly reduce the middle of the storage market -- SMBs running 1-2 shelves of storage.

      Right now they run straight rotational media for the most part because SLC drives in any kind of capacity (native or aggregate) is frightfully expensive. If something like 3D Xpoint lives up to its hype, these kinds of storage systems will be exclusively flash based even if there is a small premium over rotational media. It's hard to say no to a 10-20% price bump when the value add is a half million IOPS and crazy throughput.

      I would go out on a limb and wonder what will happen to the price of rotational media when the volume demand drops. Does it mean reduced production capacity and increased prices? About the only customers left for it will be those petabyte scale storage systems where floor space demands density not available in flash drive packaging.

    5. Re:Writing on the wall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      starting to realise

      No, that ship has already sailed. The only people still on conventional hard drives for 'important' games are people who play Candy Crush and people who are poor college students.

      thousands of dollars

      I'm giggling because pretty much nobody (in terms of per capita) spends 'thousands' of dollars on a gaming system. And if they were of that absolutely tiny category, it means they were the first adopters.

    6. Re:Writing on the wall by michrech · · Score: 1

      It's hard to say no to a 10-20% price bump when the value add is a half million IOPS and crazy throughput.

      ...not to mention the reduction in power usage.

      --
      bork bork bork!
    7. Re:Writing on the wall by 0123456 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The only people still on conventional hard drives for 'important' games are people who play Candy Crush and people who are poor college students.

      LOL WUT?

      New games are often 30+GB. My Steam folder is well over 1TB. I'm not buying a 2TB SSD that would probably cost more than the games did.

    8. Re:Writing on the wall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sure they don't want to bring out a hybrid drive?

    9. Re:Writing on the wall by Kjella · · Score: 1

      So... how many of those are you actually playing at once? I got 256GB, together with Windows and a bit of other junk it's a little tight but if I just delete the "stalest" game to install a new one I still prefer it over the load times of an HDD. I tend to get addicted to a few games at the time, I never play more than a handful at once. And when I'm "done" I get fed up for a while, if I want to go down memory lane I can reinstall it quite easily later.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    10. Re:Writing on the wall by swb · · Score: 1

      After I wrote the above post I realized I didn't factor in power.

      I don't think most SMBs care about power. From my experience, the power savings for them wouldn't even be a consideration. Most might see their (usually inadequate) UPSs gain a few more minutes of run time and their air conditioning work a little better, but by and large it's not really a thing for them.

      But at the very large enterprise, I'd almost bet the power savings would be worth the investment in additional floor space if they had to add shelves to meet capacity/density to go flash over HDD.

      My sense is, though, that any improvement in flash technology that results in reliability that makes it interchangeable with rotational media will likely be produced in package densities that equal available rotational media. Considering how small existing current flash technology is now, you kind of wonder why you can't get 6 TB SSDs in 3.5" packaging now (besides them costing $3k a pop).

    11. Re:Writing on the wall by hort_wort · · Score: 2

      No wonder we're still waiting for a 8TB consumer drive from them.

      That might be enough to hold Star Citizen. I hope they can get it out in time.

    12. Re:Writing on the wall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      good idea! ssd makers will love you when your ssd reaches its write limit and you have to buy a new one!

    13. Re:Writing on the wall by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because I really want to spend hours and 30GB of my network cap downloading the game again next time I want to play it.

    14. Re:Writing on the wall by sshir · · Score: 1

      There are SSDs which are higher density than HDs. Samsung showed 16gig device few weeks ago: PM1663a

    15. Re:Writing on the wall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldnt hold my breath on Star Citizen coming out anytime soon. It is basically by the same people that did Strike Commander. They were about 2 years late on that one too. Overly ambitious and will under deliver. WC3 shipped only because the new corp overlord made it happen.

      It is why I did not give them a thin dime. They have amazing ideas and some pretty good tech demos at this point. But anything seriously playable is mid next year at best.

    16. Re:Writing on the wall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get better at managing your shit.

      Bet 80% of your stuff hasn't been touched in 2 years...

    17. Re:Writing on the wall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you're delusional or stupid.
      the number of worth playing games over 8 gig is VERY small.

    18. Re:Writing on the wall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only people still on conventional hard drives for 'important' games are people who play Candy Crush and people who are poor college students.

      LOL WUT?

      New games are often 30+GB. My Steam folder is well over 1TB. I'm not buying a 2TB SSD that would probably cost more than the games did.

      That's a bit like, "I'm not buying a car that would probably cost more than the groceries I'm going to use it to carry home would." Sure that's more extreme but you get the idea.

  9. Meh by NominalLoss · · Score: 1

    As long as they don't bother encrypting them.

  10. I gave up on WD hard drives years ago... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    But I recently rebuilt my FreeNAS file server with five 1TB WD Red NAS hard drives for $50 each. A nice upgrade over the Seagate and Hitachi drives that all reported heat-related errors after five years of 24/7 service.

    1. Re:I gave up on WD hard drives years ago... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, Seagate has gotten so bad that WD looks like the superior option. Consolidation is bad because it means fewer choices. Basically all consumer HDs are from WD or Seagate now, or companies they own, so if one company's quality goes in the tank, you don't have many other options.

    2. Re:I gave up on WD hard drives years ago... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Basically all consumer HDs are from WD or Seagate now, or companies they own, so if one company's quality goes in the tank, you don't have many other options.

      Hey, there's still Toshiba.

    3. Re:I gave up on WD hard drives years ago... by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      WD's 3TB Green drives have been problematic for me. I've had about a 33% failure rate. Their other drives have been fine, with some 1TB and greater consumer drives still running after over 40,000 power-on hours.

      Of course it may just be bad luck on my part with the 3TBs.

      Sandisk SD cards, on the other hand, have all kinds of corruption problems with my dashcams, which went away when I replaced them with cards from another manufacturer. Hopefully WD's SSDs won't be so bad.

  11. Free market, anyone? by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The idea behind free market has always been that whenever there is a buck to be made somebody will endeavor to make it

    However, the reality that we live in doesn't work like that --- your exmple of Verizon's acquisition of Alltel which puts further burdens on the consumer, and TFA's WD gobbling up SanDisk are but two of the many examples of how the big corps are fucking up the market place and nobody can do anything about it!

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:Free market, anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The idea behind free market has always been that whenever there is a buck to be made somebody will endeavor to make it"

      The free market is a myth that never existed, people who believe it don't know any history at all behind war and empire.

      Protectionism for the rich and big business by state intervention, radical market interference.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHj2GaPuEhY#t=349

      Trillions in energy subsidies

      https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/survey/so/2015/NEW070215A.htm

      Propaganda in democratic societies

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwU56Rv0OXM

    2. Re:Free market, anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's next? Symantec will buy Central Point? It never ends.

    3. Re:Free market, anyone? by mjwx · · Score: 2

      The idea behind free market has always been that whenever there is a buck to be made somebody will endeavor to make it

      However, the reality that we live in doesn't work like that --- your exmple of Verizon's acquisition of Alltel which puts further burdens on the consumer, and TFA's WD gobbling up SanDisk are but two of the many examples of how the big corps are fucking up the market place and nobody can do anything about it!

      The idea behind the free market is that there are no artificial barriers to entry.

      Free Marketeers have always concentrated on government created barriers and ignored those created by private entities to prevent competition. Because of this, the free market in purity has never worked.

      Bits of the free market work when applied correctly, the same with regulation, the same with capitalism and the same with socialism. However all of these ideologies fail horribly when they're applied to the extreme.

      A few years back, someone tried to set up a "Galt's Gulch" in Chile but somehow never bothered to ask anyone who's actually lived in a developing nation what would happen. Around 2013 it fell apart because none of the brilliant libertarian businessgeniuses who invested in it realised that a 3rd world government is going to fleece them for all their worth. Something even the most dim witted, perpetually drunk, ex-pat living in Thailand or the Philippines could have told them in 2 minutes flat.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  12. 8TB by JBMcB · · Score: 3, Informative

    I interpret their relative slowness to market as doing proper testing before releasing product.

    I had an array of 4 western digital 4TB drives. Added 2 Seagate 6TB drives, as they were the only company that produced them at the time. One failed after six months - replaced that one, the second died after another 4 or 5 months. I quickly bought two 6TB WD drives and mirrored the data before both Seagate drives failed again. The old 4TB WD drives are still running fine, as are the new 6TB drives, two years later.

    --
    My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
    1. Re:8TB by bobbied · · Score: 1

      I interpret their relative slowness to market as doing proper testing before releasing product.

      A hard drive maker TESTING products before releasing it to the masses? You cannot be serious... If you can get the SMART testing to pass in the factory and there are enough good sectors to get you the advertised size, ship it. Time is money, especially in commodity markets like this.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:8TB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe I read on the backblaze blog that the initial round 6TB Seagate drives were an especially fail-prone batch of disks. If memory serves, new lines of Seagate tend to fail more than new lines of WD, but a year or so in to production, the Seagates then matches or exceeds WD reliability.

    3. Re:8TB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everyone has an anecdote about one bad batch or another from every vendor. I've had bad disks from Seagate, and bad disks from WD over the years. When you're buying enough (10 years ago I was buying a few hundred drives a month) you're going to see some serious failures. There was a batch of velociraptors that had an 80% failure rate. Sucked since the batch was like 400 drives. But I've also had plenty of Seagate drives die. Much more their SATA/IDE disks than their SCA/SAS lines, but still plenty of both.

    4. Re:8TB by JBMcB · · Score: 1

      Then again, a high enough failure rate will eradicate the profit margin on your product, especially on low-margin commodity items.

      --
      My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
    5. Re:8TB by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      You do realise storage technology fundamentally changed above the 6TB mark right? It's less about testing the product as testing the new technology.

  13. The real reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They just want to rebrand it so people stop calling it "Scandisk".

  14. bad buys HURT the stock price. See HP by raymorris · · Score: 1

    If your business $1B cash, that adds $1B to its value.
    If your business owns $800 million worth of Sandisk, that adds $800 million to its value.

    Therefore, spending $1 billion to buy a company worth less than $1B HURTS the company's value. See HP for some dramatic examples.

    The value (stock price) increases only if you get a good deal on the purchase, if you buy a company for less than it is worth. So companies make aquisitions when they think they're getting a good deal. Who doesn't like getting a good deal?

    1. Re:bad buys HURT the stock price. See HP by chmod+a+x+mojo · · Score: 2

      Therefore, spending $1 billion to buy a company worth less than $1B HURTS the company's value. See HP for some dramatic examples.

      Not always true. For one example: Company A buys company B for $2.2B, but company B is only "worth" $2B. You say company A is taking a $200M loss. Looks bad at the outset, but looks can be deceiving... read on:

      But what if Company B had the potential to be a $4B value, but lacked, say for the sake of argument, $800M to ramp up production. Then Company A, that has the capital, would GAIN $1B for their investment ( 2.2B + 0.8B = $3B spent for a $4B company ). I would consider this a "good deal" on the purchase, even if it LOOKS bad at the outset.

      --
      To err is human; effective mayhem requires the root password!
    2. Re:bad buys HURT the stock price. See HP by tomhath · · Score: 2

      They still wasted $200M by giving $2.2B for a company that was only worth $2B.

    3. Re:bad buys HURT the stock price. See HP by David_Hart · · Score: 1

      Therefore, spending $1 billion to buy a company worth less than $1B HURTS the company's value. See HP for some dramatic examples.

      Not always true. For one example: Company A buys company B for $2.2B, but company B is only "worth" $2B. You say company A is taking a $200M loss. Looks bad at the outset, but looks can be deceiving... read on:

      But what if Company B had the potential to be a $4B value, but lacked, say for the sake of argument, $800M to ramp up production. Then Company A, that has the capital, would GAIN $1B for their investment ( 2.2B + 0.8B = $3B spent for a $4B company ). I would consider this a "good deal" on the purchase, even if it LOOKS bad at the outset.

      There is also the situation where Company A is at a disadvantage in the marketplace (i.e. behind in technology, etc.) and company B has the technology that they need to compete. The 200 Million extra spend could easily be eaten up by R&D costs and lost market share. This could be a strategic purchase, not a financial one. The Forbes article below says that WD had SSD sales of around $500 million while Samsung has sales over $3 Billion in 2014. It also outlines the SSD technology companies that WD has been buying.

      http://www.forbes.com/sites/gr...

    4. Re:bad buys HURT the stock price. See HP by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Except that in reality, if they want Company B's shareholders to approve the transaction, they need to show them some value. Company B's shareholders could liquidate their shares for $2B on the market any time they want, or they could get $2.2B (on paper, and perhaps more) by approving this deal in a timely fashion and not raising a stink.

      Add it to the cost of business.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    5. Re:bad buys HURT the stock price. See HP by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      But a company rarely pays all cash to buy another company. It offers it's own stock in exchange for the stock of the other company and sometimes it's stock plus cash. This may cause some problems with dilution of the stock as more stocks are on the market but this is partially offset because the expectations for the larger company are higher (or at least should be).

      There are times when you are more than willing to pay above what the market thinks a company is worth. For example if you can lock your competitors out of a technology. Apple, Microsoft, and Google are good at this. Or a company wants to break into a new market. It's often easier to buy your way in so that you have the infrastructure and expertise rather than trying to build it up from nothing.

      Of course there are just some times a company is lead by an idiot and blows a few billion buying a dud (cough, HP, cough).

    6. Re:bad buys HURT the stock price. See HP by KGIII · · Score: 1

      When I sold my business the, now parent, company paid XX in cash and XXX (about 2.5x as much) in shares in the parent company. Some such law prevented me from divesting those shares for 6 months after the sale. I'm not sure if it is the same with companies which are public, mine was not.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  15. Can they create a worth successor to the Fuze? by nikhilhs · · Score: 1

    I loved SanDisk's Sansa Fuze. I prefer to have a separate device for my music. Unfortunately, all the subsequent versions really sucked. I hope Western Digital creates a worthy successor.

    1. Re:Can they create a worth successor to the Fuze? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. Westard Dismal is just as bad as Slavegate. They just bought up Sandisk just to bury them. After all, Westard Dismal hates competition and they want to eliminate all flash storage cuz it competes with their crappy mechanical based storage that forces their sheeple to buy a new fucking drive every year.

  16. $4B - 0.8B = $3.2B value by raymorris · · Score: 1

    I was talking about actual value of the purchase, not book value.

    If adding 0.8B will make it worth $4B, it IS worth approximately $3.2B, in terms of whether or not it's a good deal. That's the value I was speaking of.

    Since it's worth 3.2 to company A, if they buy it for 2.2, they got a good deal. When valuing companies with significant growth potential, you do in fact factor that potential into the value, so much so that it's often a much larger factor than book value.

  17. Cost per MB/GB/TB is ony one measure by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

    This doesn't account for actual usage of drive space, people with 8 TB drives might need 8TB of space, but most people STILL don't need that much space.

    And consider this, in the next 2-4 years, we'll see a huge drop in SSD pricing as new drives come online with new technology giving 16 TB storage with performances exceeding Spinning drives (not to mention new, higher bus speeds needed).

    This is one of the clearest signals that the era of Spinning drives is nearing its end. They will be all but gone within 5-8 years. Add in cloud based storage (BackBlaze style) and you don't need 8TB unless you're a Photographer or hoarder.

    --
    Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    1. Re:Cost per MB/GB/TB is ony one measure by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This doesn't account for actual usage of drive space, people with 8 TB drives might need 8TB of space, but most people STILL don't need that much space.

      There's a real problem at the very price-sensitive low end, where you need to provision an embedded device with just enough storage to boot off and store its logs. Several times we've ended up buying low-capacity SSDs from... not entirely salubrious Chinese manufacturers because they're the only ones that can hit the required price point. Everyone's chasing the high-end as-large-a-capacity-as-possible unit-sales market, but sourcing a consignment of 8GB SSDs where you're ready to order a container-load of them at once is near impossible from known-brand manufacturers.

  18. buying it for less than R&D cost IS financial by raymorris · · Score: 2

    > The 200 Million extra spend could easily be eaten up by R&D costs and lost market share. This could be a strategic purchase, not a financial one.

    The company I work for was just aquired under just such a scenario. The board had three options:

    R&D the needed tech: $40 million
    Lease license the needed tech: $30 million
    Buy a company who had the tech: $20 million

    That IS a financial decision, I'd say.

    Ps - I don't know how many million the actual costs were for the company I work for. I do know that buying the subsidiary made better financial sense than doing the R&D or licensing the tech.

  19. Anecdotes by JBMcB · · Score: 1

    Sure, I've had the odd lemon WD drive, but every Seagate drive I've owned failed before or not log after it's warranty was up.

    I confirmed this with an acquaintance who runs an enormous disk array for a university. They switched exclusively to WD Reds after atrocious failure rates with Seagate drives, and a pilot where they tested Samsung drives.

    --
    My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
  20. WD beta tester by mu51c10rd · · Score: 1

    I am a WD beta tester. I can assure they do beta test their products with real people before release. Best part of being a tester...you get to keep all the gear.

  21. $5/GB overage fees by tepples · · Score: 1

    8 GB is still a $40 overage fee if your ISP charges $5 per GB. If you can't get cable or DSL, you're stuck on satellite or fixed cellular.

  22. Wear leveling by tepples · · Score: 1

    SSDs use "wear leveling", which spreads out writes to all pages. This means even if a page can only be rewritten 5,000 times, you'll write to tens of of thousands of other pages before you write to this one again. Is the total amount that can be written and overwritten to an SSD really that much lower than what is written to a hard drive over its life?