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Australian State Bans Possession of Blueprints For 3D Printing Firearms (computerworld.com.au)
angry tapir writes: Possessing files that can be used to 3D print firearms will soon be illegal in the Australian state of New South Wales after new legislation, passed last week by state parliament, comes into effect. Possessing files for 3D printing guns will be punishable by up to 14 years in prison. The provisions "are targeted at criminals who think they can steal or modify firearms or manufacture firearms from 3D blueprints," NSW's justice minister, Troy Grant, said when introducing the bill in the state's lower house on 27 October. "Those who think they can skirt the law will find themselves facing some of the toughest penalties for firearms offences in this country," Grant said.
Man, what a nanny state. Need to put that defense distributed torrent back up.
And as everyone knows, Australia is entirely peopled with criminals, and criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me.
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
The penalty for having a digital file that can be used in conjunction with a 3D printer to create a gun, or the penalty for not turning over your encryption keys?
So you make sure you know the URL, or you keep the file away from prying eyes. As usual in IT the legislation is long out of date. Meanwhile of course sending the file to upstanding citizens could have some entertaining effects...
Worse. When technology is outlawed, only outlaws will have technology. It will probably be illegal to develop an injection rifle for a wildlife doctor as well.
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
You can have my guns when you pry my thumb drive from my warm, pasty hands.
No no. How about the powerless American liberty-tards who object to things like sentences of fourteen years in prison for a few thousand bytes on a disk?
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
In the commission or a crime ?
Yeah tjhats what i thought. Kneejerk reactions to a non issue.
That's just a busy weekend in NYC or Detroit.
You don't get out much, do you ?
Get back to me when the French death rate hits over 10,000 a year, every year.
For all the Aussies who still value their freedom:
I'm working right now on a ~120MB torrent with all the Defense Distributed stuff, plus a bunch of 3D printed and CNC files for all kinds of guns.
The torrent will be encrypted with TrueCrypt, so your government cannot access it.
Hopefully this will spawn an underground garage gun industry down under.
We've been here before with crypto. The next step is to write the book and publish a gun source in the appendix. Let them start trying to ban the books. It reveals their true nature.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
With the correct program, any file can be used to print a 3D firearm.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Because they are not sent as blueprints. So at that point it's completely legal to have the gcode files for the printer.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Indonesia executes people for simple drug trafficking.
Criminals don't really care about the law because there are two main types of criminals who commit serious crimes: the stupid ones who don't think about the consequences and the smart ones who are willing to take more extreme measures to stop people from holding them accountable.
The one consequence they do tend to fear is a swift death at the hands of a potential victim. That's why increasing the capacity of self-defense for the law-abiding is always a good thing. If an unarmed 6ft tall man gets gunned down trying to rob a 5"2 woman, who cares? He shouldn't have been trying to commit a violent felony. It's not that his life is worth less than her purse, but that when he chose to put her in fear of her life over her purse, he forfeited his right to live in that moment.
When guns are outlawed
Only outlaws will have guns.
Worse. When technology is outlawed, only outlaws will have technology. It will probably be illegal to develop an injection rifle for a wildlife doctor as well.
I can't help wondering .... if laws were outlawed would only outlaws have laws?
How does rendering good people helpless make bad people become harmless?
...for now. I've yet to hear about a 3D printed gun that I would think was safe to be in the vicinity of when it was fired. Simple homemade zip guns are safer. I suppose a machined plastic composite (John Malcovich!) is effective & might slip through a metal detector (not sure how you get the ammo through) but we sure haven't heard much about them.
As the technology progresses this will likely change. But right now the high end 3D printer I have access to in my R&D lab couldn't create a decent, safe to use firearm. It could print out something that looks really cool & would freak people out!
SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT
Why does the law only apply to 3D printers or electronic milling machines? Why not outlaw all blueprints to all firearms, regardless of how they are manufactured?
Seeing the kind of quality most people get out of their 3D printers, I'm not sure it would actually be easier to produce one on a 3D printer as opposed to using more traditional methods.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
It was bad enough, with teenage sons, wondering if I ought to get them on a guest wifi to prevent some pron charge.
Everyone will eventually be a law breaker, at this rate.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
Except that it defines the contradiction of being liberal.
The legislation has definitely not anything at all to do with being liberal - unless you look at it from the perspective of The Ministry of Truth in the Orwellian world. It's all about controlling the thoughts of the population. Also realize that porn with women with small boobs is prohibited in Australia.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
It's about establishing the power to control and ban information, blueprints of 3D printed firearms are just the low hanging fruit of that particular tree.
In a state of anarchy, would having laws be unlawful? I think that's what it boils down to and it is akin to asking if $deity can create a pepper too hot for he, himself, to eat. Or, more accurately, "If perpetual motion machines were invented, would elephants wear pajamas?"
No, no... Now that I reread that, I've nothing to contribute that makes sense. I'm gonna post it anyhow. ;-) I guess, in seriousness, no because we can't realistically outlaw laws because even saying that there is no laws is a law, after a fashion.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Interesting how different countries look at gun control so differently. Here in Texas starting January 1st a person will be able to walk around with revolvers strapped to their side, just like in the wild west.
Next will be a ban for 3D printing files for Mickey Mouse in the USA with jail times up to 99 years.
And Aussies are resourceful too. Remember the guy who made his own bullet proof armour to fight the authorities
Granted, there are reasons why you want to ban that. (and reasons to allow possession of such plans)
But these are exactly the same reasons that there are for restricting any plans for selected kinds of weapon to licensed manufacturers. If someone now only includes machine-printable plastic guns, that's nothing more that short-sighted, hype driven, blind "we had to do SOMETHING"..
bickerdyke
First it was real guns. Then it was plans for guns. Next it will be thoughts about guns.
You left out "PB&J chewed into the shape of a gun".
For the chil'ens, of course.
Not really sure how they are going to enforce this on a individual basis, sounds more like additional rules to throw at people selling them or as crime evidence (like if a robber gets caught with one).
The malware devs out there need to add a feature that downloads various 3d printed gun plans and randomly places them all over the hard drive of an infected user.
Folks can just view them on a webpage not hosted inside Australia while using the browser in Incognito mode. Law successfully skirted.
""Those who think they can skirt the law will find themselves facing some of the toughest penalties for firearms offences in this country,""
Those that will don't really care, do the Australian "authorities" understand criminal behaviour?
Is it just me? Or is Australia going draconian faster than any other Western nation
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
1 blueprint streaming service: you point the machine at an URL and it sends the instructions as needed.
2 break the plans into a number of sections: start with section 1 and then erase 1 when you have 3 done
3 hide the parts needed in a number of other plans
4 edit the plans so that if you follow the plans as written the finished product will not work
any others??
So are they going to attempt to enforce this in the United States via the Trans-Pacific Partnership?
And France has a population that is less than 1/6 of the US.
If you don't want to be a completely douche troll, at least use figures that matter, like per-capita death rates.
I'll give you a hint:
US total gun deaths per 100k population: 10.5
France total gun deaths per 100k pop: 3.01
Also remember that correlation != causation. Venezuela, which is run as basically a totalitarian state until they choose not to be, has outright banned guns with the exception of military and police (shocking, that) and they still have 5x the gun deaths per 100k that the US has.
Making guns illegal doesn't stop people that want to do things that are illegal from doing things illegal. Absolutely nobody in the history of the world has ever progressed along the thought line of "You know, that fucker Doug needs to die, and I'm the one to make it happen. Oops, can't kill Doug - the 90 day lockup for possession of a firearm is just too steep in comparison to LIFE IN PRISON FOR CAPITAL MURDER."
Two of the top ten stats with the strictest gun laws. Obviously the laws are not working http://www.deseretnews.com/top...
Unfortunately most of this is Black on Black crime. We need to provide better education and help everyone understand that #AllLivesMatter
Being that DropBox's servers aren't located in Australia, all someone needs to do is store their files in Dropbox. So Stupid.... Can Australia ban literature too?
[snip] Compromise was tried. [snip]
When? I don't remember that. What did the NRA compromise on?
The more people I meet, the better I like my dog.
Can anyone explain how in earth could such legislation be approved in a democratic country ? It seems to me that one could be thrown to jail for something that he _could_ do if he managed to actually build a gun from the blueprint. I know that in some places there is the concept of "conspiracy to commit a crime" (or something like that), but usually the authorities must build their case on something more tangible...
3D-printed bullets do. Keep the guns and outlaw the bullets!
Well, it was in the 9th Ward here.....you pretty much expect crap like that in that area.
If you aren't in a gang, or buying/selling crack, you really have no business being in that area.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Anarchy isn't chaos; it is literally "absence of a ruler", like monarchy means "one ruler".
Under a system of anarchy there are still common laws, which are discovered, not created. In other words, people understand that it is wrong to harm someone, so the person harming someone will end up paying retribution. All laws are "harm-based", in other words, you're not going to get a fine or jail time if your behavior is not harming others (even if it's self-harming, that's not a crime).
Our government schools have trained us to think "anarchy == chaos" but it's not the case. An anarchic society will be even less chaotic than today's USA society, where your life can be turned upside down over a vegetable.
A good way to "outlaw laws" is to a) make them apply to all, not just "everyone who isn't a ruling parasite"; and b) for any law found to be unconstitutional, the authors and those who voted it into congress, will be held liable for treason.
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
And I'm still seeding the DefDist MegaPack v4.2 and will continue to do so.
Liberty in your lifetime
Knowing that the legal consequences of an action are disproportional to the "crime" does not mean that someone has any intention of carrying out that "crime."
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
And, interestingly enough, many of the counties with the most registered guns have violent rates that equal Europe's. Once again it's not the possession of a piece of metal that causes crime. Just like possession of a pe.n!s doesn't cause ra pe.
If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
A gun without ammo is just a paper weight. Furthermore, the ammo is worth more than the gun as you can just make a zip gun instead. Why buy a 3D printer, wait awhile for the gun to print, when for a fraction of the cost you can make zip gun? You can make so many zip guns for the cost of a 3D printer.
Fines and or jail time for printing items that you don't have a right to the IP is only a few short years away. Unlike downloading music which you can kinda delete and hide, you now have a tangible object. Which is not only harder to get rid of it's easier for a jury to relate to and conceptualize the loss from said activities.
Seriously, there is no knives in any kitchens in those jurisdictions ???
I don't see the whole "ban 3D printed guns" when its just an expensive paper weight without ammo. With ammo, you don't even a 3D printed gun, why bother? Just make a zip gun for a fraction of the cost.
Also realize that porn with women with small boobs is prohibited in Australia.
Well come on now. What kind of sicko likes tiny titty porn?
Go big or Go home!
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
It's not paranoia if he's right.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
It's the only thing I can think of to explain something as completely idiotically stupendously STUPID as this. This should be used as the new definition of incompetence in action.
Many games contain 3D files describing various guns.
Is a 3D wireframe illegal? A 3D surface model? A 3D CSG model?
Somebody please educate the poor lawmakers about what they are actually doing ...
What do you mean? PLA or ABS cows?
I know everybody here wants to get on with the business of rehashing the same old boring arguments about guns, but please notice this is about which IDEAS are illegal to possess. A drawing or blueprint is an idea and a piece of communication. It is not a firearm. In America this would be a 1st Amendment issue (not the 2nd).
Or, more accurately, "If perpetual motion machines were invented, would elephants wear pajamas?"
The answer to that is, "Yes, because bananas can't moonwalk."
This space unintentionally left blank.
The conventional defense against bringing firearms into crowded places (like sports stadiums, political speeches (when four of your presidents get shot (McKinley, Lincoln, TDR, Kennedy) it's kinda an issue), airports) has been metal detectors. If you start making guns that can bypass metal detectors, you open up a new vector of attack in said crowded places.
Given that using firearms in a crowded place to defend people is a Bad Idea (TM) because of collatoral damage, how do you propose we protect people? Americans, after all, have a long history of disarming people in crowded places that goes back to the Old West and further.
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
We've seen this kind of thing before, but it was even more ridiculous when the U.S. government tried to claim that it was illegal to export code that implemented the RSA algorithm.
Those not familiar might be interested in this link...
RSA in 3 lines of perl
This is an ex-parrot!
And you hit the nail on the head of why this system is so rotten and broken:
In my description of anarchy, the laws are agreed upon. They are not handed down by a superior being. In your above quote, the central government does dole out harm as it sees fit. Not "in a just manner", but "as it sees fit".
I don't see how it's extreme to want to eliminate extra expenses. And it's not an endless cycle as you describe, because the participant who are harming others are hopefully learning that "harming others creates harm to myself."
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
I consider myself a libertarian, but I am a minarchist and not an anarchist.
I view the proper role of government as enforcing the contracts that people freely enter into, plus defending people from actual harm.
I've read the Utopian visions of anarcho-captialism, where the free market solves all the problems, but I don't believe in it. How do you solve the "free rider problem" with respect to national defense? When someone is just insane and will not cooperate, how does voluntary arbitration resolve a dispute that person has with someone else?
If you want me to believe in the cooperative model of anarchy running as a smooth society, please give me an actual example from history where a country operated as an anarchy and it worked. (I can give you examples of minarchy that in my opinion worked.)
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
I suppose OZ will next ban nylon chopping blocks on there way to banning fire.
None with points.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Government?
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
Of course they wouldn't! Only a moron would believe something so silly.
Elephants, as any sensible person well knows, wear boxer-briefs...
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
If anyone wants to e-mail the guy (and attach a 3D printed handgun CAD), his e-mail is:
dubbo@parliament.nsw.gov.au
There is a BIG problem in the state of New South Wales with criminals getting hold of guns and using them as part of crimes.
Violent criminal gangs in particular are causing major issues (and shooting each other up all the time).
The new law has nothing to do with wanting to put the 3D printing genie back in the bottle and everything to do with making it harder for these criminal gangs to get more guns to shoot people with.
In addition to banning 3D printed guns, the law also increases the penalty for tampering with serial numbers and identification marks on firearm barrels, extends the penalty to other gun parts (not just barrels). It also does some stuff to penalties for possession of such parts. And it strengthens the penalties for using, supplying, acquiring or possessing a stolen gun (or gun parts).
Oh and the ban doesn't just cover 3D printer plans, it covers plans for use with milling machines and other things too (i.e. any digital plans that can be used to make guns or gun parts are covered)
In the blessed United Kingdom, licences are extremely hard to come by - basically hand guns are outlawed entirely. So, no, get a licence, get a gun doesn't work. Not sure about Australia.
Yeah, he was shot in the legs, captured then hung...
Our government schools have trained us to think "anarchy == chaos" but it's not the case.
You have a class for Anarchy101?
I first learnt the word from my punk rocker friends who thought a funny haircut made you different, despite all of them having similar funny haircuts. I can't recall the word ever being used outside those circles. But saying it's the government that did it, to train you to think a certain way makes it sound exactly like how they used to speak, back when I was 13.
Are knitting needles illegal too? How about cleavers?
What the fuck happened to the world and why are people so shit scared of their own shadows that they feel the need to go crying to the government for yet more authoritarian garbage? They're literally demanding their own prison. I wouldn't have a problem with that, but these fascists are demanding it for everyone else as well, and that has got to stop.
[snip] Compromise was tried. [snip]
When? I don't remember that. What did the NRA compromise on?
You haven't been paying attention. The NRA supported the Lautenberg amendment.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Wasn't that program actually started under the Bush administration?
Well, yes but that's misleading.
So that Obama and Holder ended up taking all manner of shit from the Rabid Right--including a massive anti-Holder PR campaign by the NRA--for continuing to do what their guy had started?
This is the misleading part. The operation that became Fast and Furious began under the Bush administration as Wide Receiver but the program was vastly different under the Obama administration.
There was nearly seven times more guns allowed to walk during the Obama administration than under Bush. The Bush administration ended Wide Receiver in 2007 when they had issues with inadequate tracking. None of the Bush era guns have been used in homicides in the US. The Bush era program notified Mexican law enforcement of guns that they expected would cross the border, that didn't happen under Obama.
Whether you choose to chalk it up to incompetence or malice, there were many differences between Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious that show the Obama administration's operation was a wholly different beast.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
14 years. They found a USB drive in my bedroom that was my Ex-wife's. It has a 3d printer file for a gun. Somehow it's my fault I didn't get rid of it.
Hah, I knew you're lying. The right answer is nothing. You get 20 years for the 3d printer files. Nothing gets you 14 years.
You'll love the gulag after a while.
I used to consider myself a libertarian; I am now fully anarchist. I went through minarchism on my way to my current understanding. Nobody with a gun will tell me what to do, especially not if they're directing me to take actions which harm others. (For now, I am choosing to pay taxes, both because it's the easiest path for the moment, and also because I haven't studied Karl Lentz and Rod Class enough to be able to speak extemporaneously accurately enough in court.)
It depends on what you mean when you say "is just insane and will not cooperate". There would be a variety of remedies; an anarchist society doesn't mean there won't be "holding centers" i.e. private jails/prisons; if someone harms others then a cooling-off period would be prescribed by one of the various companies providing legal services.
There aren't many examples in history, because those who succeeded with this path were generally overtaken by more violent tribes. So I strive for a future that I understand will either never happen, or if it does, will be vulnerable. But then, with each breath I take it could be my last; life is vulnerable. This also ties in with your "free rider problem" regarding national defense.
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.