UK's National Crime Agency Publishes Crazy Cyber-Crime Warning Signs (oomlout.co.uk)

Blacklaw writes: The UK's National Crime Agency, formerly known as the Serious and Organized Crime Agency, has published a list of warning signs that supposedly indicate a child may be heading toward a life of cyber-crime. The list includes late nights and showing any kind of interest at all in programming, even as the UK government pushes coding into the national education curriculum.

Comments

Time, once again, to post...

[wiredog]

Is Your Son a Computer Hacker?

stupid adults

[Thud457]

• Is your child spending all of their time online?
  PORN.
• Are they interested in coding? Do they have independent learning material on computing?
  NERD.
• Do they have irregular sleeping patterns?
  soooo much PORN.
• Do they get an income from their online activities, do you know why and how?
  PORN.
• Are they resistant when asked what they do online?
  PORN.
• Do they use the full data allowance on the home broadband?
  PORN.
• Have they become more socially isolated?
  PORN.

NEXT!

Re:stupid adults

[gstoddart]

Do they get an income from their online activities, do you know why and how?
PORN.

If your kid is making income online from porn, then you have other issues you should be worried about.

Other than that, these warning signs probably describe the teenage years of a large chunk of people on Slashdot.

They basically say "if your teenager uses a computer, is moody, and keeps odd hours you should totally report him as a criminal just in case". The entire thing sounds like it was written by some clueless idiot who doesn't know anything about the life of a teenage nerd.

It's really long on hysteria, and really short on substance.

Re:stupid adults

[bkr1_2k]

Actually it says "Many of these are just normal teenage behavior...showing several of these signs, try and have a conversation with them about their online activities."

It doesn't say report them. To paraphrase, it says 'pay attention to what your children are doing. Be involved in their lives.' You know, normal decent parenting behavior.

Re:stupid adults

[gstoddart]

You know, normal decent parenting behavior.

Do people still do that?

It always seems to me they just leave them alone to become feral little beasts that everyone else has to put up with.

I can't tell you how many people I have seen who can barely control their own kid in public because it's a screeching howling little ball of evil which won't take no for an answer, and that's while they're still young enough to be in a stroller. I can only imagine the vicious little psychopaths by the time they're a few years older.

Then again, I don't have or want kids, so maybe I'm just a little biased.

But I figure by the time you're begging, pleading, and resorting to bribery, you have already lost the battle and your kids are going to walk all over you for the rest of their lives.

And then of course there's the fact that a lot of the people I see with kids were left to be feral little balls of evil by their own parents and haven't got the slightest idea of what to do.

You need a license to own a dog, but any moron can have a kid.

Re:stupid adults

[narcc]

XML has been a huge success, maximizing billable hours for millions of consultants, solutions providers, and developers alike. A rising tide that raises all boats, it has positively impacted the hardware industry as well, allowing them to sell billions in storage, processors, and memory upgrades.

You mean like using XML as a freakin' database?

This ... is ... genius! Just a few of these solutions could increase the demand for developers to such a significant degree that salaries would rise even in popular outsourcing nations. The value you could extract from the right clients could easily rival the GDP of a small country.

God Bless XML!

I love that Independant learning is a problem

[EmperorOfCanada]

"Do they have independent learning material on computing?" I think that in a strange way this fits with the UK initiative to get programming into schools. By making online learning "suspicious" it means that kids will only learn the "proper" way of thinking.

In a way I think that the worst nightmare for traditionalists is if kids start to learn more an more from uncontrolled resources. To a card carrying members of The System they can't think of anything worse than a way for people who won't play by the "rules" to be able to succeed. There are many people who go through life building up a perfect checklist of a resume which includes going to the proper schools. Online learning threatens this to the core.

Re:I love that Independant learning is a problem

[ezdiy]

People may "think in words", monologues in cartesian theater. When one considers language as the means to convey or even ponder ideas, it perhaps makes sense to put a leash on language to limit certain ideas. Why should be programming languages any different? Java, PHP, Javascript support the western democracy. C++ is probably associated with toxic brogrammer culture, but is tolerated for legacy reasons. C is clearly an indication of being on path towards radical extremism.

Re:I love that Independant learning is a problem

[Cro Magnon]

And assembly language could indicate a tendency toward machosism.

Ban soccer moms and helicopter parents

[Opportunist]

That should take care of the problem. I'd have opted for "educating" them, but it seems that's hopeless.

Only one of their 'warning signs' is real

[gurps_npc]

That is, if a kid is getting income from online activity, they should be bragging about it.

All the rest are signs of normal, intelligent, nerd behavior.

Basically, the UK hates nerds and wants to make sure that no British kid ever grows up to start or get anywhere in an e-business.

Sensationalist summary

[gregfortune]

If you actually pull up the article, it has a list of warning signs and then adds:

Many of these are just normal teenage behaviours and don't necessarily suggest a young person is at risk of getting involved in cyber crime. But if a young person is showing several of these signs, try and have a conversation with them about their online activities.

We don't really think there's harm in having a conversation with our kids, do we?

Re:Sensationalist summary

[Jiro]

The list will make parents suspicious of normal things. Suspicion doesn't mean "this is associated with crime every single time", it means "it's pretty likely this is associated with crime". Adding a disclaimer that it isn't associated with crime every single time will do nothing to stop suspicion, since suspicion doesn't mean it's associated with crime every single time.

Furthermore, if the kid isn't already talking to the parents about these things, one possible reason for that is that the parents can't understand. (Seriously, go try explaining even something like open source to a random parent.) Of course, parents who understand so little that the kid can't talk to them are also the kind of parents most likely to believe what documents like this tell them.

And yes, there is harm in having a conversation with the kids here, because failing the kids' side of the conversation can result in serious consequences. Imagine not being allowed to use computers before college because some government document told your parents to "have a conversation" and your parents are so clueless about computers that they ended up thinking they need to cut off your computer access to save you from a life of crime.

other very real warning signs

[nimbius]

1. Does your restless child dress in parachute pants and mumble about "the gibson" as he glides past on his skateboard
2. Has your child been exposed to, or attempted COBOL or worse, obfuscated C?
3. Have you noticed a startling uptick in mid-nineties electronic music? does your child own more than 3 trenchcoats and a virtually endless supply of wrap-around ray-ban sunglasses?
4. and finally, the worst sign, does your child publically question the need for an asinine laundry list of reasons to convict a minor of thoughtcrime?

OMG no!!!

[JustNiz]

>> Are they interested in coding? Do they have independent learning material on computing?

Oh no! my son might be A PROGRAMMER!!!!

Re:OMG no!!!

[onkelonkel]

Football will make a man out of him! If only there was a way to mix football NASCAR and guns, then we'd be 100% sure.

Re:OMG no!!!

[Areyoukiddingme]

If only there was a way to mix football NASCAR and guns, then we'd be 100% sure.

Mad Max?

Seriously?

[hrimhari]

From the NCA link, about interest in programming and spending all night online:

Many of these are just normal teenage behaviours and don't necessarily suggest a young person is at risk of getting involved in cyber crime. But if a young person is showing several of these signs, try and have a conversation with them about their online activities.

What exactly am I supposed to be shocked about?

I might be a cyber criminal!

[Jason Levine]

So I looked over the list, replacing "your child" with myself, and:

Warning signs of cyber crime
Are you spending all of their time online?

Pretty much. I make websites at work, go home, and freelance as a web developer at home.

Are you interested in coding? Do you have independent learning material on computing?

Given that I'm a web developer, I'm very interested in coding. I have independent learning material on computing and know sites where I can find more material.

Do you have irregular sleeping patterns?

Sometimes I go to sleep as late as 1am and then wake up at 6:30am to start my day again.

Do you get an income from their online activities, do you know why and how?

Given that I work as a web developer (both day job and freelance), I make pretty much all my income from online activities.

Are you resistant when asked what they do online?

Ok, I tend not to be resistant when asked what I do online. So this would be a no.

Do you use the full data allowance on the home broadband?

We don't have a data allowance on our home broadband. I do use most of our mobile account's data allowance, though. So maybe score this as half right.

Have you become more socially isolated?

I have no in-person friends that I see regularly. I just see my immediate family (kids and wife) and a few co-workers.

So I'd score about 5.5 out of 7 on their scale. It sounds like I'm well on my way towards becoming a cyber criminal!

Re:RE :: Hacking – this involves...

[Zontar The Mindless]

Even I have pretty much given up on that one.

Hopping Mad

[CaptainOfSpray]

I have written to my MP about this. She isn't the best MP in Parliament (known locally as the Chocolate Teapot, as in "as useful as a..."). But she is a scientist, and what the NCA have done is blatant disregard for government policy. I believe she has the ear of some influential people. With any luck she can cause the NCA some pain.

I would encourage any and all Brits to use They Work For You http://www.theyworkforyou.com/ - an easy and quick way to write to your MP, and say what you think (even if you disagree).