Microsoft CMO Confirms Development of 'Spiritual Equivalent' of Surface Phone (hothardware.com)

MojoKid writes: We all know what Microsoft wants to do with Windows 10. It's supposedly the last monolithic release of Windows and the ultimate plan is to unite hardware from different device categories under a single, universal ecosystem. That includes smartphones, which is an area where Microsoft has historically struggled hard to compete. The release of a premium "Surface Phone" of some sort, however, could prove to be a game changer. Microsoft is aggressively pushing Windows 10 upgrades, and makes no bones about it, all in an effort to get developers on board to build universal Windows 10 cross-platform apps and spur mobile development. In that respect, Microsoft needs to finally make an impact in the handset space and Windows 10 Mobile is the company's one shot to do just that. And it appears that Microsoft is working on what could be essentially a true Surface Phone, or at least something very similar. In a recent interview, Mary Jo Foley pushed Microsoft's Chief Marketing Officer Chris Capossela on the prospect of a Surface Phone and he confirmed the company is working on a "breakthrough" phone that is the "spiritual equivalent" of their very successful line of Surface branded products. Capossela has been with Microsoft for over two decades. He used to write speeches for Bill Gates and is intimately familiar with Microsoft's many products and strategies.

Comments

ok...Apple/Jobs is a religion..i get that

[turkeydance]

so now, the tech world enters Shia/Sunni territory?

Re:ok...Apple/Jobs is a religion..i get that

[PolygamousRanchKid]

"You have found A Spiritual Equivalent of a Surface Phone."

# wield phone

"You are now wielding A Spiritual Equivalent of a Surface Phone."

# turn on phone

"Nothing happens. The battery appears to be dead."

# drop phone

"You can't. The Spiritual Equivalent of a Surface Phone appears to be cursed."

Re:ok...Apple/Jobs is a religion..i get that

[dissy]

The LCD is pitch black. Your data cap is likely to be eaten by a grue.

Re:ok...Apple/Jobs is a religion..i get that

[Black Parrot]

Hey, I love Spiritual Computing as much as the next geek, but I have a degree in Computational Theology, so I speak with authority when I assure that the two devices are not spiritual equivalents.

More like kissing cousins with more than the expected amount of DNA in common.

Re:ok...Apple/Jobs is a religion..i get that

[Anonymous Coward]

This is why you try to make your pet stand in the same square first. Wielding an item without checking BUC status first? Amateur.

Re:ok...Apple/Jobs is a religion..i get that

[angel'o'sphere]

That was old school.
To bad +funny mods don't yield Karma.

Re:ok...Apple/Jobs is a religion..i get that

[angel'o'sphere]

Three things are certain:
Death, taxes and dataloss!
Guess what happened?

(Not by me and not sure if it is correct)

Re:ok...Apple/Jobs is a religion..i get that

[mikael]

That has to be added to nethack as an artifact "The Spiritual Equivalent of a Surface Phone" along with a new character class - the Tech Guru.

Oh noes

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

And I'm sure it'll be another stunning success, just like the last 5 failed phones they tried to force into the market.

Re:Oh noes

[Anonymous Coward]

Honestly. The fact that these guys can still make money is shocking.

Re:Oh noes

[JustNiz]

They don't. Their phone division has always been a massive financial liability. Its just that Microsoft is literally obsessed with the thought of getting into phones.
Any other company acting like their phone division but without their massive safety net would have gone bust 5 times over by now.

Re:Oh noes

[Tablizer]

Wish that happened to the F-35

Re:Oh noes

[whoever57]

Its just that Microsoft is literally obsessed with the thought of getting into phones.

Microsoft knows that its long term future depends on success in mobile, and no, a tablet that is a replacement for laptops is not "mobile".

Re:Oh noes

[rubycodez]

wouldn't a company that knew its ass from a hole in the wall have figured out mobile was important say 15 years ago? WTF?

Re: Oh noes

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft knew 15 years ago and they've been trying all this time. They just failed repeatedly in execution.

Re:Oh noes

[bondsbw]

It did. Microsoft debuted Windows Mobile (then called Pocked PC) in 2000. Microsoft was one of the most successful mobile "smart device" companies before 2007.

Their problems, common to many of their consumer offerings at the time, were built upon complacency and lack of innovation that I believe is the ultimate legacy of Ballmer. He loved his monopolies, and sat on them well past the point of staleness. Good thing for consumers that other companies decided enough was enough and came out with substantially better products.

I don't fault Microsoft for being mobile focused now, I just fault them for waiting so long.

Re:Oh noes

[PopeRatzo]

It could be worse. They might have announced a wrist watch.

Re:Oh noes

[mlts]

It wasn't that long ago when Windows Mobile was the dominant OS in the smartphone arena. To boot, MS and hardware makers did a pretty good job. The HTC Wizard comes to mind, with a week's battery life. It might be laughable by our standards now, since it only puttered at EDGE speeds, and didn't have the latest rev of BlueTooth, not to mention the use of MiniSD cards... but for the time, it was a very nice phone.

Microsoft dropped the ball when the iPhone came out. The biggest problem is that Windows Mobile was designed around a stylus, while iOS and Android were designed for finger gestures. The shift in the UI expectations left MS in the dust, just because all their device apps were not "finger friendly". MS was encumbered with an existing solution, and having to either figure out how to retrofit the latest UI style, or to just toss everything out and start anew.

MS did a good job with starting anew, and they have a competitive device.

As for a spiritual successor for the Surface... this gets me wondering... are they going to try for an Intel x86 type of computer running W10 in a smartphone form factor? If they could pull this off running a real x86 version of Windows 10 and all Windows applications, it would be a game-changer.

Of course, other companies tried this, such as Motorola with the Atrix and Atrix 2... but if a phone could be tossed in a stand or have a USB-C cable connected, and it take the role of a desktop machine with an x86 version of W10, Microsoft would be breaking new ground. It would mean that one wouldn't need to have anything other than a keyboard, monitor, and USB-C hub in order to have a functioning desktop.

There is one missing piece of the puzzle, and that is getting a phone to handle heavy GPU tasks. This is easy. Since MS has their own graphics standard, it would be trivial for them to make something like a LAN version of OnLive, and have smartphones and tablets send the DirectX commands over the network to a render box, and the render box send back streaming video. Since 4k res of streaming video is about 10Mbps, a wireless LAN can easily handle this. If one uses a newer graphics protocol like ZPEG which gets even better compression for the same quality, it would be even less.

If Microsoft pulls this off, where the only GPU needed for a device would be for the basic UI... they would have a major breakthrough market that would be in high demand.

Re:Oh noes

[Anonymous Coward]

It could be worse. They might have announced a wrist watch.

They're saving that for next quarter.

Re: Oh noes

[Anonymous Coward]

What evs. Successful or not the Lumias are better phones than the shit Android phone of the month. Only problem is the apps which is why I'm stuck on a Note 4. Basically puzzles and dragons.

Re:Oh noes

[Anonymous Coward]

Whats in it for me? Their marketing officer must answer that one.

Works better than Apple Strike questionable - one I have Apple and it works fine
Compatibility with Microsoft Strike don't care
The cloud and 365 and Strike - Web browser ;
Corporate roll-out What - allow work to read my phone and to intrude track me?
More secure So you want to compete with Blackberry
What WOULD SELL ME list
Leaks out Apple has a drive-by download all API and was lying about their shit being safe
Tap here, and it behaves and does everything an Apple does, even runs all the apps only better
Buy or Die Campaign. Buy our product or we send someone to kill you.
Hackers announce Microsoft has their shit together and zero day bounties are worth more than apple

Re: Oh noes

[ArmoredDragon]

IMO they'll keep failing at it too. Their current strategy (same applications run on all hardware) is riding on the idea that people will create desktop universal apps.

It's just not going to happen because, first of all, hardly anybody writes desktop applications anymore. If somebody wants to create an app for desktop users these days, it's almost always a web app that you interact with in your web browser.

Second of all, the few desktop apps that people write can't even be done in a universal app due to API restriction. For example, you couldn't create something like OpenVPN Connect for it because universal apps can't tunnel internet traffic (the best they can do is pass instructions to the built-in Windows VPN client, which won't support any VPN protocol that Microsoft hasn't specifically written for it.) So if they do write a desktop app, it's probably not going to run on anything except Windows for PCs, thus not being "universal".

Re:Oh noes

[bondsbw]

As for a spiritual successor for the Surface... this gets me wondering... are they going to try for an Intel x86 type of computer running W10 in a smartphone form factor? If they could pull this off running a real x86 version of Windows 10 and all Windows applications, it would be a game-changer.

There is some demand for it, as evidenced on several tech forums, blogs, etc. IF they could get it into a form-factor similar to today's smartphones, without extra heat and with low energy consumption (at least when not plugged in)... then I would be very interested. I'm personally OK with it not being as powerful as a gaming rig; I would have a separate machine for that.

But it would still have to be a great smartphone, and I wouldn't be willing to give up more than about 50% extra thickness over common models today.

Re:Oh noes

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem is that Microsoft has so much money, and has a cash cow making so much money, that they can keep on throwing lots of money on the project until they finally have what they want: a dominant position in smart phones and tablets.

They are really forcing all those tablets/laptop hybrids and phones to their partners, just like they a forcing their partners to adopt cloud versions of the office stack. I know plenty of people working in some MS oriented shop who claim they don't need anything in a phone/tablet as long is it can use MS Office. According to them the future is not in phone apps, but in Office Apps and apps that run on all devices with different views.

I was working for such a company a few weeks ago, and they were making fun of me because I have an iPhone. They were very evangelic and tried to convince me to switch to an MS phone, but first ... they needed to reboot because of some faulty application. But that was the fault of Nokia, not Microsoft. When I told them that Nokia 'is' Microsoft, the answer was just: 'not yet when the phone was made'.

This is an anecdote in one of the many Microsoft only shops. Many of the decision makers in those small/medium sized companies are evangelizing Microsoft products. Microsoft can't do wrong in their eyes, and anything non Microsoft is ignored and when they have to deal with it, they hire external knowledge. The reason I was hired by that one company is to copy data from Postgresql to Access (yeah, that access that should have been aborted before it was released), so they could switch their new customers to the fantastic invention called SharePoint online. These are apparently really competent engineers. They don't know anything about Posgressql, but Access has no secrets for them. They can make .NET applications that moves data from Access to SharePoint. Apparently that's what their team of 'programmers' does all day: making SharePoint apps. Software solutions that already exist are remade with SharePoint as a developing platform. I didn't even knew SharePoint was used for developing applicatoins. I always thought it was just a collaboration website.

  Well, it was so easy work, just use and adapt my generic code and let it run, test for consistency and deliver the project right before deadline (2 weeks while I finished in only 1 day, their making fun of me, made me let them pay back...)

Conclusion is that many small and medium sized companies are customers of these kind of MS only shops. Their customers don't have and don't want the expertise in IT, and the MS shops just move MS technology and nobody cares (or even understands) about vendor lock in. Just add some successful evangelizing about MS Phones (and of course say that Android is too fragmented and is full of adware, and claim that iPhones are just to play games) and slowly their market will grow. It doesn't even matter that they lose money year after year in the phone division, their desktop monopoly makes the profitable. When the move to the cloud is successful, they don't even have to care about the very low desktop sales. They get free money from the subscribers. Look at the XBox. It lost money for many years and they are still sold.

No other company as this luxury. They need to make money pretty soon. Microsoft should have been divided in multiple companies back in the nineties, when it was clear that they had a monopoly. They still profit from this 'almost monopoly, but just not enough to get punished'.

Re: Oh noes

[Dracos]

MS will continue to fail at mobile, but not because of their strategy. They've been failing at mobile since before the iPhone.

Their mobile failures are just examples of a broader cultural deficiency in Redmond: they don't know how to connect with consumers, and they're too stubborn and full of hubris to realize that. The XBox division succeeded mostly because it was left alone by the top brass (who likely didn't understand a damn thing about it). When MS learns to put aside their preconceptions about buying habits and that consumers don't shop the same way CTO's do, they might have a chance in any consumer market, including mobile.

Re:Oh noes

[SQLGuru]

There is one missing piece of the puzzle, and that is getting a phone to handle heavy GPU tasks. This is easy. Since MS has their own graphics standard, it would be trivial for them to make something like a LAN version of OnLive, and have smartphones and tablets send the DirectX commands over the network to a render box, and the render box send back streaming video. Since 4k res of streaming video is about 10Mbps, a wireless LAN can easily handle this. If one uses a newer graphics protocol like ZPEG which gets even better compression for the same quality, it would be even less.

Doesn't the Xbox already have a similar capability where some games offload their computation to a central server?

Re:Oh noes

[ITRambo]

Their DataLink was a fantastic wristwatch in 1998. I stored my contact list on it. Microsoft abandons good products for pie in the sky ones too often.

Re:Oh noes

[gl4ss]

their mobile operating system used to make money and had 90%+ marketshare in certain segments. ..then they decided it was a good idea to throw all that away, take all the general computing device/hackability features away and market _that_ as a smartphone OS.

and that's how they fucked up the profitable portions of windows ce.

all they needed was a decent user interface, so they copied zunes shitty user interface, called it "new from the ground up", shipped the phone with zune software to manage it(no support for desktop windows's built in phone support they spent 10 years making). and while doing that they took away the access to the lower level under the interface making it in a de facto "feature phone" segment OS from users perspective. and then they tried selling that for top smartphone prices.

also, surface phone? the fuck? microsoft already has lumia's which are as surface phones as anything they could come up with.

or they want the spiritual phone equivalent of surface rt compared to windows phones? like, it would run just a subset of windows phone apps? yeah, that would be great.

I guess they forgot that they ALREADY FRIGGIN HAVE A PHONE ON MARKET THAT HAS A DEVICE TO USE IT ON A BIG SCREEN AND USE CRAPPY WINDOWS RT (windows 10, they say, but hey, it's just the windows store apps that it runs) APPS IF THE USER WANTS TO PAY. how much more of a surface phone can you frigging GET? nobody cares about that phone though, for good reasons.

Re:Oh noes

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, Crackdown 3 will be using this for online play later next year.

Re: Oh noes

[Dutch Gun]

And they damned near hobbled the Xbox One by:

1) Losing their initial focus on their core audience and core use, which is gaming.
2) Their ham-handed, arrogant approach to once-per-day mandatory connected DRM.
3) Their insistence that Kinnect be an integral part of the console before belatedly realizing that it kind of sucked for most types of games.

It was only when the market slapped them down that they backpedaled. Windows 8 was also a similar display of incredible hubris / arrogance, ignoring the very loud early feedback that told them that this was going to be a disaster in the market.

Microsoft has *always* been best at connecting with business clients, really (although they blew that with Win 8 as well). I'd posit that consumers just sort of came along for the ride with Windows since that's where the ecosystem was, but very little they did actually resonated with most of them otherwise.

Re:Oh noes

[swb]

SharePoint is almost an industry unto itself. Probably because it's not useful out of the box without a bunch of coding to make it resemble some kind of workflow or CRM application. I almost never see it deployed without in house talent of some kind because it's one of those things that's never quite done and always needs tweaking.

MS on Intel is an ecosystem and there a reasonably intelligent people at all levels who really don't know anything else, mostly because they don't need to. There's enough customers, product and work to keep them busy and more or less get something done. It's not all that different from IBM or DEC in their heydays.

I think MS partners marching their own customers off to MS cloud solutions is a little weird. It's like giving away your customers to someone else and your customers end up paying more for it. Even if it's just Exchange, that's a whole huge bit of managed service revenue and a not small slice of infrastructure gone and probably forever, as it's the one cloud application that's halfway reasonably priced.

Fortunately the naked greed of cloud computing vendors combined with the unseen complications of "going cloud' for a lot of existing wintel environments makes them so expensive and complex that even naive SMBs won't bite. I just saw a cloud quote for a customer with a clunky, 4-5 VM homegrown app "system" that would make it cheaper to buy all new on site hardware and toss it every 18 months. I guess that's maybe what cloud vendors are doing themselves on the back end, but I just don't see how that kind of economics works.

Re:Oh noes

[drinkypoo]

It wasn't that long ago when Windows Mobile was the dominant OS in the smartphone arena. To boot, MS and hardware makers did a pretty good job.

You are remembering a past that did not exist. WM phones' hardware was shit. I mean, you're completely glossing over the period where WM devices didn't even have nonvolatile storage, aside from space for the OS! Palm never went through that. Nor did the other "smart" phones of the day. That was unique to WinCE of the day. "Sure, we can do it without flash!" No, no you can't, Microsoft. Not when an OS crash can destroy all your files. What a festering piece of shit.

Re: Oh noes

[drinkypoo]

The XBox division succeeded mostly because it was left alone by the top brass (who likely didn't understand a damn thing about it).

The XBox division "succeeded" by pouring money into that hole until it was full. The original Xbox never made a profit, for example, and it was years into the 360 before it was profitable.

Re:Oh noes

[Bruinwar]

You are remembering a past that did not exist. WM phones' hardware was shit. I mean, you're completely glossing over the period where WM devices didn't even have nonvolatile storage, aside from space for the OS! Palm never went through that. Nor did the other "smart" phones of the day. That was unique to WinCE of the day. "Sure, we can do it without flash!" No, no you can't, Microsoft. Not when an OS crash can destroy all your files. What a festering piece of shit.

True, but they did bury Palm. A friend of mine invested some money & developed programs for CE & did OK for a while. All the time he was bitching about how the MS dev forums were begging for more innovation with the platform. All the ideas & suggestions were ignored, CE was left to rot due to complacency.

Re: Oh noes

[angel'o'sphere]

If somebody wants to create an app for desktop users these days, it's almost always a web app that you interact with in your web browser.
You mean on Windows ? Well, that does not really make sense to me.
It is more the way mobile Apps work in our days ...

For Macs an Linux plenty of Desktop Applications get written ... I for my part don't use any SaaS, web based solutions anyway. Does not make sense in Europe (at least not right now) where you are crossing a boarder three times a day (or more often) while traveling.

Re: Oh noes

[ArmoredDragon]

You mean on Windows ? Well, that does not really make sense to me.
It is more the way mobile Apps work in our days ...

Well look at for example, Adobe, who is making a lot of their tools (including photoshop) run in web browsers. Hell, Microsoft is doing the same thing with Office 365.

For Macs an Linux plenty of Desktop Applications get written

I'm sure they do for things that for some technical reason can't be done in a browser, which is especially true with Linux devs who are always pushing the envelope, but it's not like it used to be where *everything* that came out was a platform native app. Hell, even the pirates write webapps, look at sabnzbd, sickrage, couchpotato, rutorrent, etc.

Re:Oh noes

[Anonymous Coward]

WinCE devices without flash storage (or with nowhere near enough to be truly useful) was a hardware decision, not a software one. The software supported flash memory just fine in WinCE 5. It's not like they added support for non-volatile storage in WinMo 6. What they did add was a requirement to have non-volatile storage, since the price of NAND flash was coming down from the stratosphere at about that time (2004-ish when it was in development). Prior to that, a requirement like that would have seen hardware manufacturers ignore WinCE entirely and develop more J2ME crap for a proprietary OS like everyone at the low end was already doing.

Re: Oh noes

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks like we have one of those militant Microsoft idiots here who'll swallow that has a UI with a square on it because it'ss "revolutionary and so productive". Every one of those MS phones were bags of shit that came with a half baked shitty OS. No wonder no devs develop for it.

Re:Oh noes

[Anonymous Coward]

MS did a good job with starting anew, and they have a competitive device.

They started anew so many different times that software written for one version of the OS would not run on the next major release of the phone OS. That burns a lot of goodwill with developers and is why iOS/Android took the lion's share of the market. Think about it, Apple and Android started with ZERO market share, but developers were willing to write for those two operating systems.

Microsoft has a bad habit of killing off ventures that developers come to depend on. Always bringing out a new shiny platform every 1-2 years that will "solve all your problems", while simultaneously obsoleting what was the new shiny just 2 years prior.

Re: Oh noes

[Rob Y.]

XBox succeeded because it was able to leverage a lot of what developers were already doing for PC games to their console. That's where Microsoft has failed miserably in mobile. By supporting only the new metro API's for mobile, they had no real way to leverage their desktop monopoly. The apps simply didn't materialize because they were late to market (as usual), but this time they didn't have the monopoly to grant them success from a position of lateness. Since they couldn't 'force' developers to code for their platform, developers didn't. Surface has succeeded (to the extent it has), because it's a laptop, not because it's a tablet. People buy it for the desktop WIN32 apps that it runs, not for the Metro stuff - which is, at best, an add-on perk. That's why they're trying to force Windows 10 on everybody - but it won't work. The WIN32 apps are going to stay WIN32, and yes, most new desktop apps will be web apps.

So, I read this new 'Surface Phone' thing as an intel-based phone that can actually run WIN32 stuff when plugged into a keyboard, mouse and monitor. That's pretty cool, actually. But it's not going to compete well with the new sub-$400 class of Android phones out there - especially if Android develops the same capabilities. Of course, Android can't run WIN32 code, so there's still a chance. WINE for Android would be nice...

Re: Oh noes

[unixisc]

Microsoft couldn't have succeeded in leveraging their desktop monopoly on to mobile for 2 reasons. First was their choice of CPU - having chosen ARM for the Lumias (okay, it was Nokia who did it), it wasn't gonna run their usual Wintel apps. But even beyond that, the form factor of Wintel apps was never meant for phones, and nothing illustrates that better than the failures of Windows CE.

The apps in the app store are remarkably bad - they tend to crash randomly. Microsoft can't even make a stable Mail & Calendar app, and their store guy was surprised that I was using that. Well, I generally use any default mail app that comes w/ any system that I have - like on this PC-BSD laptop, I'm using Thunderbird. The only good apps that I have on my Windows laptop are the ones where I went to their website, downloaded and installed. In other words, apps that are NOT in their app store.

On a side note, the Microsoft stores in the malls are now stores that have de facto dance floors in front of their big screens. Maybe Microsoft could try getting back into the spotlight by being another sponsor of 'Dancing with the Stars'.

Re:Oh noes

[JustNiz]

Thats always been their whole strategy: let other innovate and them move in when the marketplace is already mature. Wierdley they always do that with a sub-standard copy of whats already been done better by the innovator, and unfortunately somehow stay in business.

Re: Oh noes

[JustNiz]

You must be one hardcore MS fanboi, because I've (had to) use both and its very clear that Lumia totally sucks compared to Android.

Re:Oh noes

[unixisc]

One more thing - they need to discontinue all their phones that have just 8GB of storage, and start at 16GB. 8GB fills up too fast.

Re:Oh noes

[unixisc]

I agree that this phone is not for you if you are just thinking personal use. But as a work phone, it has many things going for it:

1. All the basic apps one would need in a phone. Typing is a breeze on a Lumia - Apple and Android have only recently caught up in that department. Other apps that Microsoft comes w/ are really handy - particularly OneNote. I had a setup where I had OneNote, Office, Maps (at that time, there was both HERE and Bing Maps), and so on. Granted that these are all there on Androids and iPhones as well.

2. The lack of popular apps, except for a few, is a plus rather than a minus when it comes to work. With iPhones and even Androids, people will download a vast array of games and other apps and use the office phone for a whole bunch of personal stuff. And then complain when the office doesn't respect their privacy. Give them a Lumia, and half the things are not there, so that phone is only useful for the employee to do his work

3. Compatibility w/ Microsoft IS a plus, since most office goers use Windows, unless one happens to work either at Apple or Oracle (or maybe Google?) Everybody gets a desktop at work w/ Windows, and so even though Windows 10 does have the Phone companion that supports Android and iOS, having a phone that can natively see any Office developed apps is useful.

So no, I wouldn't get it for personal use: for that, I have my iPhone, w/ which I FaceTime family members. In fact, I don't use the iPhone for anything else. For any work related things, I'd either use a Lumia, or in cases where apps ain't available (like Vonage or Lyft), I'd use Android.

Re: Oh noes

[Anonymous Coward]

I disagree, though I realize this is a contrarian opinion. There is an interesting window of opportunity for Microsoft developing. Hear me out:

1). The Metro/Modern/Live tiles interface works just fine on a phone interface, and for once no one can complain that MS copied that from anyone. It is distinctively Microsoft in origin;

2). Recent WinPhones have received pretty good reviews. The total package, including hardware and all the rest, actually works. Yes, we know that the app picture isn't as good as the iPhone. No one has the app library the iPhone has and that's a fact of life even Android has to live with;

3). MS is aggressively working on a unified OS. Meanwhile, Apple is slowly making iOS more like OSX (and vice versa). It could be that the unified OS strategy is a better choice in the long run. We need to acknowledge though, that a specialized mobile OS has worked well for Apple up until now;

4). Universal apps. The weakness here is that a truly "universal" application design would span all devices and makers, but no one realistically has that. Even Java with Swing never quite made that happen (technical success but a market failure). Web pages with device detection get close, but of course these aren't local apps at all. However MS has come closer than anyone to a multi-device strategy. The key limitation is and remains, adapting the UI to widely varying screen sizes. Even more so than differing CPU architectures, mass storage and memory capabilities, input systems, and the rest.

I'd rate Microsoft's chances of success at only about 30% (within a wide range of uncertainty), but at least it is a chance.

Re:Oh noes

[mikael]

You can't blame them. Look at what a smartphone can do now. HD screen resolutions with a simple HDMI plug in cable. Better texture-mapping than an Ultra-64 or PS2 . OK, not too impressive now, but. Back 20 years, you'd have to fork out $150,000 just to get an SGI workstation that could do texture-mapping. Now that comes for less than $500 using OpenGL ES. Combine that with GPS location, MEMS accelerometers, barometers, temperature sensors, magnetic sensors, motion sensors, allows augmented reality with Oculus Rift. It then becomes absolutely imperative to Microsoft that they must get a share if not take control of the mobile market. Of course, it's rapidly expanding. GPU's and embedded OS's are moving into devices like flatscreen television/monitors, car control systems, tablets, high-end household electrical appliances. Even some keyboards have their own LCD screen.

Now if Microsoft don't try and unify the desktop and mobile phone markets, then someone else will try using API's like The Qt Company(Trolltech), Java or Android. Their first attempt was to try and turn the desktop into a giant mobile phone display. The only other way is to either have the smartphone have a windows system or to have a smartphone emulator on the desktop like the Palm Pilots used to have.

Re:Oh noes

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

One more thing - they need to discontinue all their phones that have just 8GB of storage, and start at 16GB. 8GB fills up too fast.

If they had half a brain they'd start at 32GB or even 64GB. That might help set them apart at least a little bit.

Re:Oh noes

[drinkypoo]

WinCE devices without flash storage (or with nowhere near enough to be truly useful) was a hardware decision, not a software one.

It was a hardware decision necessary to produce an affordable device after you accounted for the additional weight of WinCE as compared to a genuinely slim platform like PalmOS. And yet, a basic device capable of running WinCE tolerably (not well, WinCE never ran well) still cost more than all but the most expensive (and visibly overpriced) PalmOS devices.

Re:Oh noes

[unixisc]

They seem to have leapfrogged 16 - all their phones have either 8 or 32GB. The 32GB ones are fine, although the Icon didn't have a slot for a micro SD: dunno about the others (this may have been a Verizon call). But the 8s are too anemic - at least make them 16.

Re: Oh noes

[graphius]

Where are you finding photoshop running in a browser? I admit the new interface on Photoshop cc looks like crap, but it is still a native desktop app. Or are you talking about the mobile extensions designed for iOS and android?

MS CEO said the same thing about Win10 in 2014

[xxxJonBoyxxx]

>> Random marketing head says now THIS is last desktop OS Um...Microsoft CEO Nadella said that Windows 10 was already going to be this great converged OS...back in 2014. http://www.extremetech.com/gam...

Re:MS CEO said the same thing about Win10 in 2014

[Bite The Pillow]

"Windows 10" is the "OS X" of Redmond. OS X was released in 2001, still has the same name, but has evolved quite a bit. It also means "Ten" in Latin.

Windows 10 is going to incrementally alienate every single desktop user, which is the business user, which is where Microsoft makes most of its money. Headless virtual machines on keyboardless commodity hardware are not going to be administered by tablet, and the stupid tablet interface is really just going to piss people off.

Well, that sounds terrible. Maybe they should have gone with Roman numbers instead of those Arabic ones, given the world today.

Re:MS CEO said the same thing about Win10 in 2014

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait a minute...I heard Windows Phone 6 was going to be the game changer. Then WP7...now it's 10? Perhaps they will succeed with Windows Phone 11?

But I get why they say it will be the spiritual equivalent of surface...the surface machines don't get the bad reviews that the Windows Phones do...so they are hoping the improved marketing speak will work this time.

Re:MS CEO said the same thing about Win10 in 2014

[bondsbw]

the stupid tablet interface is really just going to piss people off.

Then I guess it's a good thing they got rid of their tablet-only interface before Windows 10.

Re:Have you ever wondered

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

if Slashdort is actually an illusion produced by psychedelic microtoads that live parasitically in our ears?

I have wondered that, but I've worked for Microsoft and in my experience they couldn't pour piss out of a boot with the instructions written on the heel, so I don't give that theory much weight.

Microsoft need to just get it

[JustNiz]

No one WANTS a Microsoft-branded anything.
The only reason anyone still uses Microsoft products is because:
1) it came preinstalled on your new computer.
2) Most workplace IT managers only know Windows so automatically force it onto everyone's work computers.

Re: Microsoft need to just get it

[Anonymous Coward]

You're wrong. Anecdotally, I chose and purchased windows 7 for my self built pc and I chose a Microsoft keyboard (natural 4000, outstanding!),l. Anecdotes don't normally count for much, but they can disprove sweeping ill-informed statements like yours.

Re:Microsoft need to just get it

[blackpaw]

If by "no one" and "anyone" you mean "all the other kids in my parents basement", then yes, you are probably right. If none of them are gamers.

Re:Microsoft need to just get it

[fermion]

They definitely need to work hard to move product. I am not sure how anyone believes the Surface is successful. MS revenue appears to be down, and while Surface sales spike, and increase, as each new Surface is released, sales drop the next quarter or two until a new surface is released.

Their one successful piece of hardware, the Xbox, seems to go up and down. The XBox success is that it is not windows, and MS does not do a lot to use Xbox to push MS Windows. From a consumer point of view, the MS ecosystem does not offer a lot of advantages. They are corporate and enterpise, and Windows !0 offer great tools for that, but unless corporate is going to buy windows phones, which they have not done in the past, and make workers use them, they are going to be sunk.

Re: Microsoft need to just get it

[MightyMartian]

Anecdotes still don't count for much. Microsoft could barely be described as a bit player in hardware outside the Xbox division (which I suspect still hasn't paid back the vast investment Redmond has put into it).

Re:Microsoft need to just get it

[gman003]

I'm actually getting a Surface. (A used Surface Pro 2, but still specifically a Surface - I found a use case where Windows compatibility in a super-portable machine with a touchscreen is actually quite useful).

Microsoft is blatantly trying to be Apple, but they actually seem to be doing a better job of it than the modern Apple is. All their devices are reportedly solidly-built and well-specced (either high-end overall, or good specs for the price... yes, their high-end stuff is expensive, but at least it's actually high-end). The Surface Pros are quite popular with artists because they have really good pen digitizers, and work with full-bore art software. They make reasonable compromises - the battery life is as long as it can be while keeping a reasonable size, the performance is as good as it can be while keeping battery life usable. Even the Xbox One is okay. I'm never going to buy one, but I can see that it's good at what it's trying to be, and about half of what it's trying to be is good for some users.

Meanwhile, Apple is making phones too thin for the battery to last a full day, then making an ugly, misshapen battery case to fix it. Making pens that charge off a fixed port, and snap with a harsh enough glance. Making screen sizes that don't evenly scale from their old ones, while having no good way for applications to scale to unexpected sizes. Introducing a variety of models with no clear hierarchy of performance or size or cost. Pointless cosmetic customization, but one-size-fits-all capabilities.

I actually would like to see a straight-up laptop from Microsoft. Not a convertible, not an ultrabook, a laptop - because the other competitors in that market are doing a pretty pitiful job of it. Something like the old Macbook Pros (before they got anorexia-obsessed) mixed with the old ThinkPads - a solidly-built machine, easy to maintain and upgrade, with usable base specs and plenty of customization so you can get what you actually need. (I wouldn't automatically buy such a thing, but I *do* think Microsoft would probably do better than any company currently doing so).

Re: Microsoft need to just get it

[lucm]

Microsoft could barely be described as a bit player in hardware outside the Xbox division (which I suspect still hasn't paid back the vast investment Redmond has put into it).

It's so easy to google you wrong, why do you not take a minute to check before making this kind of empty comment

Re: Microsoft need to just get it

[Anonymous Coward]

If it was so easy, you wouldn't need to mention it.

-1 redundant

Re:Microsoft need to just get it

[ArchieBunker]

I'm still using a first generation Intellimouse. Love the layout.

Re:Microsoft need to just get it

[PopeRatzo]

The only reason anyone still uses Microsoft products is because:

It's the best platform for Fallout 4.

Re: Microsoft need to just get it

[Anonymous Coward]

There are plenty of people who don't even bother to check the easy stuff before posting.

Re:Microsoft need to just get it

[ITRambo]

If Google had Chromebooks and boxes that supported USB printing in an easy to setup way Windows would slowly fade into the sunset.

Re:Microsoft need to just get it

[Anne Thwacks]

Dude - get some Y-fronts - they are way cheaper!

Re:Microsoft need to just get it

[unixisc]

Doesn't the Surface Book fill up that need? What is it about detachable that defeats your purpose?

Re:Microsoft need to just get it

[Anonymous Coward]

Or that most workplace IT managers are forced into using Windows because of _________ application which only runs in Windows, no Mac/Linux equivalent available.

Re:Microsoft need to just get it

[gman003]

It's not the detachable per se that's the problem - it's the limited ability to customize and upgrade which I would want in a full-size laptop, and that is at odds with the need for compactness that a tablet needs. Oh, and also the simple physical size - a productivity laptop ought to be in the 15"-17" range, not 13", if only for the keyboard.

The Surface Book seems like a good convertible ultrabook. The sacrifices they made to make it good at certain things made it less suitable for other things. Nothing wrong with being a specialized product - in fact, what I'm interested in is also a specialized product.

Re:Microsoft need to just get it

[Anonymous Coward]

while Surface sales spike, and increase, as each new Surface is released, sales drop the next quarter or two until a new surface is released.

Oh, you mean exactly like any annually based product release cycle's revenue model.

The Surface model has proven to be successful by Apple's need to release the iPad Pro to compete with it, as well as the surge in marketshare for 2-in-1 devices.

Realistically, you have it completely backwards. The only piece of unsuccessful hardware from Microsoft is coming from their phone division. Literally everything else, from keyboards to laptop-tablets, is doing well. To be fair (not that this is the place to be fair), the Surface Book is likely hard to declare either way at this point, but I have seen multiple sold while doing other shopping.

It's hard to be surprised though. Microsoft had not released a flagship phone since the end of 2013. It's difficult for fans to continue to buy new versions of something that is not released, so I do expect to see a modest surge related to the Lumia 950/XL, which itself was clearly pushed out the door before it was ready just to show that they were working on it (and likely to gain some revenue to show for it). Now that Microsoft has put the phone stuff under the same group that does the other successful hardware, I expect things to improve dramatically; hopefully they will cut any dead weight that has been keeping them stagnant. I suppose it will be interesting to see when Microsoft manages to release their next two flagship phones because I think that will set the pace for Microsoft, beit success or failure (and likely another reboot).

Personally, I think that Microsoft's big shift will be toward putting x64 chips into phones (as done by a few Android phones, but with a bigger purpose). Then, they can allow actual desktop apps via Continuum (the phone-to-PC mode while connected a keyboard, mouse, and monitor/TV), while allowing universal apps for normal phone usage. I doubt that this will be a requirement for all Windows phones, as this would be difficult to do for the low end. However, while I think that's a killer business feature, I really hope that's not all that they do for the sake of competition. It also creates yet another reason to not bother to create universal apps versus just letting users get by with traditional and dated Win32 applications (that do not natively scale for High DPI displays especially).

Re:Microsoft need to just get it

[unixisc]

Laptops are tough to upgrade anyway. If upgradability was a criteria, I'd think one would go for desktops. As for the keyboard, I prefer the ones that still have the numeric keypad section on the right, as opposed to the compact ones where you can only type the numbers from row 2.

Anyway, my point was that if Microsoft started making laptops like what you're describing, they'd start to cannibalize their Surface books. They needn't make EVERYTHING

Re:Microsoft need to just get it

[unixisc]

I miss the split ergonomic Microsoft keyboards. Typing used to be such a joy in the 90s, compared to now

Microsoft is aggressively pushing Windows 10 upgra

[hsmith]

Is that why Windows Mobile 10, or whatever it is now called, got pushed back until 2016? I am sure people will be busting down doors to buy this new phone, maybe they'll break 5% market share in Beruit!

This just in:

[Gavagai80]

Chief marketing officer thinks his next product is good, and spiritually equivalent to things people like. This is credible because he's spent decades writing speeches for Microsoft saying similar things.

What's the difference from a Lumia?

[Svenne]

I read the article, and I'm still not clear on how a "Surface Phone" would be different from a Lumia with Windows 10. I'm sure someone here can explain to me, seeing as I'm apparently not familiar enough with the Microsoft eco-system.

Thanks!

Re:What's the difference from a Lumia?

[ChunderDownunder]

Lumia represents the last of the Nokia/Elop era, whereas a "Surface Phone" is done in-house?

x86 compatibility, perhaps. If they cram an Atom into a phone then when docked you've got a desktop PC in your pocket, with the full win32 back catalogue.

Re:What's the difference from a Lumia?

[Kjella]

x86 compatibility, perhaps. If they cram an Atom into a phone then when docked you've got a desktop PC in your pocket, with the full win32 back catalogue.

That is what I'm hoping for, they saw how Surface tablets/convertibles with ARM processors and WinRT tanked. The one reason to buy Microsoft products is compatibility with the vast, vast amounts of x86 software. If this is yet another ARM phone, just call it a Lumia. It's not a terrible brand and it's an established as a non-x86 platform. They've finally unfucked their brands, if they do it again by launching a new non-x86 product under the Surface name their marketing department should be fired. Out of a cannon.

Re:What's the difference from a Lumia?

[unixisc]

I fully agree w/ this. On the hardware side of things, they made things pretty clean. Like one of their ARM based tablets running RT 8.1 is called a Lumia, not a surface. Using the Surface name for any of their ARMs was a bad idea. Lumia is good, if not great, hardware, and all one needs is the key apps that they commonly use.

I'm not sure whether having an x86 phone would make things better for them in the software department. Like some apps, such as Yelp! and Fandango, are available on Windows Phone, but NOT on Windows 8.x or 10. I tried installing those 2 on my Winbook, and was told that my device is not compatible. Once universal apps catch on, that may change, but right now, Windows Luma, as I'll call it here, has more useful apps than Windows 10 does so far.

Another thing Microsoft needs to do is rein in control of apps, or demarcate them geographically, or something. When I go to the app store - be it the Windows 10 store or the Windows Phone store, I see tons of apps not relevant to the US when I do generic searches. For instance, Olive Garden has an app in iOS and Android that would allow one to order to go, but if one pulls up the same app, one only gets the Olive Garden in Brazil. So they need to have a way of tagging apps according to the country that they would work in.

Re:Microsoft is aggressively pushing Windows 10 up

[chipschap]

But nevertheless Slashdot feels the need to tout it as the Coming Great Thing.

Zune Phone ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Does it have Cortana voice recognition? "Zune phone: check my Bing mail! Zune phone: how do I remove all Microsoft spyware?"

Windows 7 is the end of my Microsoft road

[Anonymous Coward]

I've gone back and forth between Apple and Windows platforms over the years, but Windows 7 is the end of the Microsoft road for me. In addition to the invasive data mining of Windows 10, the endless nagging to upgrade is beyond the pale.

Re:Windows 7 is the end of my Microsoft road

[blahbooboo]

I've gone back and forth between Apple and Windows platforms over the years, but Windows 7 is the end of the Microsoft road for me. In addition to the invasive data mining of Windows 10, the endless nagging to upgrade is beyond the pale.

Yeah disappointing isn't it?unfortunately for pc desktops its the only real option. Guess we both keep running Windows 7 until forced to upgrade by Microsoft abandoning support in 2020

Re:Windows 7 is the end of my Microsoft road

[hambone142]

I loaded Linux Mint and have found it quite usable.

I agree that Win7 is my last version of a Microsoft OS unless they back off on their prying in to my personal computer. I doubt they will.

People in the Yoo Ess are quite complacent regarding data privacy.

Re:Windows 7 is the end of my Microsoft road

[Anonymous Coward]

Win7 is my last version of a Microsoft OS unless they back off on their prying in to my personal computer

You think that Apple doesn't do that too? Telemetry may not be the best thing for privacy, but it will ultimately lead to superior products because the maker will have a "big data" understanding of how people use the products, what goes wrong, what goes right and how to make the best incremental improvements. In the long run, Linux, or at least consumer versions of it, will be at a disadvantage if they cannot or will not do the same. Consider also the issue of long term funding. People have families, mortgages and their kids' college educations to pay for. They cannot afford to work for free. Take Mozilla and their latest begging campaign now that Google has turned off the money supply. My biggest concern with flavor of the month Linux is who's going to pay the support bills in the long run. Apple has iOS, Google has Android and Microsoft has Windows 10. They appear to be in the game for the long haul. Can you say the same about Linux Mint? Mod this troll if you wish, but ask yourself whether or not you're hitching your wagon to a falling star with the Linux consumer ecosystem. With cloud computing it soon won't matter what the servers are and the consumer only sees what's in front of them which is increasingly a tablet or a smart phone, not a desktop or even a laptop. It looks like that device is going to run iOS in some form, probably Android too and maybe Windows 10. Is there any room for a fourth or fifth tier in that market? Maybe, but the odds are stacked against it.

Re:Windows 7 is the end of my Microsoft road

[Anne Thwacks]

Mint vanishes? simple as a pimple - go to Ubuntu-Gnome. Same apps, same performance, marginally different UI perhaps. Moving from one Linux distro to another is trivial (if sightly annoying). Not like moving from Apple to Windows or vice-versa.

MS problem is that they have spent the last 20 years pulling the rug from under their phone users' feet, and expect them not to remember.

Before you get off my lawn, let me remind you:
In the beginning there was a mainframe with no software. Since no one had used one before, no one noticed the lack of software. Then there were loads more, but one or two had an OS and a compiler or two, and before too long, large numbers of potential buyers had been burned. All the manuf's without software were toast.
Then there was a minicomputer. Suddenly the market was 1,000 times bigger. Since no one had used one before, no one noticed the lack of software. Then there were loads more, but only one or two had an OS and a compiler or two, and before too long, large numbers of potential buyers had been burned. All the manuf's without software were toast.
Then there was a PC. Suddenly the market was 1,000,000 times bigger. Since no one had used one before, no one noticed the lack of software. Then there were loads more, but only one or two had an OS and a compiler or two, and before too long, large numbers of potential buyers had been burned. All the manuf's without software were toast.
Then there was a smart phone. Suddenly the market was 1,000,000,000 times bigger. Since no one had used one before, no one noticed the lack of software. Then there were loads more, but only one or two had an OS and a compiler^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H app or two, and before too long, large numbers of potential buyers had been burned. All the manuf's without software were toast.
Now the market is everyone on the planet. Everyone has been burned by crap hardware, lack of support/infrastructure, etc. PT Barnum was right, there is one born every minute, but a market of one is not great if you product relies on volume to fly.

The warm, fuzzy feeling you get from buying MS is like the warm, fuzzy feeling you get from a blow on the head with a blunt object, not like the warm fuzzy feeling you get from a fine Single Malt Whisky

The moral is: if your customers end up feeling shafted, you can only get away with it for so long.

Re:Windows 7 is the end of my Microsoft road

[johanw]

In practice, with "new" UI paradigma's, that will probably be used which user configurable options will be skipped this time.

Re:Windows 7 is the end of my Microsoft road

[macs4all]

You think that Apple doesn't do that too?

Prove that it does.

"Spiritual"

[Tablizer]

It's spiritual because you need a lot of faith to use it.

Windows 10 would shame even Facebook&NSA

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, maybe not. But if this was Microsoft's last big effort to rule them all, they utterly failed with a privacy policy so intrusive, so hostile to their customers.

So, Capossela, take Windows 10 and stick it up your ass. This is one former Microsoft fanboy who isn't going back. Fuck you.

Surface

[Anonymous Coward]

There seems to be this narrative that the Surface is successful in the market. It isn't. The only Surface I have seen in the wild is on the NFL sidelines, and Microsoft is paying the NFL for that. There is no way Surfaces are selling widely.

Re: Surface

[Anonymous Coward]

You are an idiot.

Re: Surface

[Anne Thwacks]

You are the idiot. He is describing his own experience. It may not be the same as yours, but its the same as mine. I have not seen a Surface yet, and the only person I know with a Windows phone thinks it is an iPhone.

Re: Surface

[Anonymous Coward]

The best NFL commercial I've seen for a Surface is when Aaron Rodgers threw one to the ground and smashed it. It really exemplified the attitude that people feel towards these shitty devices.

Re:Surface

[thegarbz]

Tell me about it. These iPads are a flop too. I just got off a train and I didn't see a single iPad. Not one. I saw 2 Surfaces though.

You may not think Surfaces are selling wildly, and in your tiny little world they probably aren't. In the mean time my local government has bought many thousands of them, my partner's school is switching to them for all staff and students (iPads were a flop for real this time not just me being stupid as in the first line) and the more I talk to people the more they are either intrigued by what I'm doing with mine, or completely unimpressed because they already have one.

But hey they only had a $1billion turnover with the Surface Pro 3. I wish I could fail quite that hard.

Been a PC user since 84

[Anonymous Coward]

Between how Microsoft handled the Xbone and Windows 10, they've finally convinced me to get an apple phone and Windows 7 will be my last Microsoft OS.

game changer

[phantomfive]

I don't remember anyone saying, "The iPhone is a gamechanger" when it was released. People said, "this is really cool" or for some, "this is really lame." They focused on the features of the phone, and how it felt. They didn't need to tell people it was a gamechanger, because that was fairly obvious right at the start.

Hypothesis: if you have to tell people your product is a "game changer," then it probably isn't.

Re: game changer

[Anonymous Coward]

When I heard that iPhones had desktop class pocessors, I thought, wow, that changes everything. Finally I can use my phone on the road, and then plug it into my monitor at work or home when I need a desktop OS. No longer relying on the servers to transfer data competly removed any issues regarding sync.

A game changer indeed.

Re:game changer

[intrico]

Not sure if Steve Jobs used the exact term "gamechanger" in that original iPhone keynote, but he definitely did effectively describe it as such.

Re: game changer

[Anne Thwacks]

I can do this with my Galaxy S3. I have yet to find a way to plug a SCSI card into my S3, and I doubt your iPhone is any different in that respect. However, I live in hope of scsi-over-ip being implemented by a third party on Android.
Hell, I would do it myself if anyone would fund me.

Re: game changer

[drinkypoo]

However, I live in hope of scsi-over-ip being implemented by a third party on Android.
Hell, I would do it myself if anyone would fund me.

That stuff is in the normal Linux kernel, how hard can it be to put it back in?

Re:game changer

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it was called the Jesus phone and Apple didn't need to call it a game changer, it actually was a game changer.

Hating on Apple or Microsoft doesn't mean you're allowed to revise history. Both companies for better or worse have changed games at various times.

Seen in the wild already

[Anonymous Coward]

I live in the Seattle area. A week ago a guy handed me his phone to take a picture of him and his family. The phone had "proto.microsoft.com" stenciled on the front. The look of it had nothing to do with a lumia.

Re: Seen in the wild already

[Anonymous Coward]

I almost feel like that guy was from their advertising agency. Was he bearded, his wife wearing cat's eye thick rimmed glasses and the children named Carter & DuPage? I mean... If I had a prototype anything I wouldn't just be handing it to someone trusting they wouldn't run off and sell it to a nefarious criminal organization that traffics in such goods... Like Gawker.

Re:Seen in the wild already

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow... I just went to proto.microsoft.com. It's a registration site for prototype devices they test.

And it's full of grammatical mistakes. If it weren't on the microsoft.com domain, I'd be just sure that they were trying to steal my identity. (Insert joke about Win10 spying on you here.)

I don't understand Microsoft

[MikeRT]

I really don't. They are the only company that could do something like the Atrix lapdock and make it work really well. In fact, the sanest thing for them to do would be to put together a beast of a phone and sell the dock at cost to business customers. Once docked, all of the touch stuff fades away into a full blown Windows 10 desktop experience complete with extra USB ports, wired ethernet, HDMI output, you name it. If they wanted to be really slick, just make the phone pluggable like a PCMCIA card into the dock itself so no one even knows it's a dock.

Re:I don't understand Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

they already made this (check their latest release), the problem is the os is more like surface rt, with no x86 compatability because the power densities and technology still isn't all quite there yet, that said, windows phone is much better from a user standpoint then the others (just look at the handsfree voice options for texting and interfacing with the os, most likely because they own ALOT of patents on this and other areas of research), but no apps, and the stigma that continue to plague microsoft products, wether it's developement tools, or an issue of rights to content, who really knows, but they're pushing hard

Re:I don't understand Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

If they wanted to be really slick, just make the phone pluggable like a PCMCIA card into the dock itself so no one even knows it's a dock.

I've sensed a great disturbance in the force, as if millions of IT managers everywhere cried out at once and were suddenly silenced. Seriously though, how would you feel about giving your employees a computer, fully integrated with the corporate network, that they could easily put in the pocket and walk out the door with? Who knows what they do with it outside of work. That might be a good angle for some consumers, but companies that put property tracking stickers on all of their hardware will hate that idea, not because they care about how much the hardware costs, but rather what's on it and what happens to it outside of the corporate mothership.

Re:I don't understand Microsoft

[drinkypoo]

If they wanted to be really slick, just make the phone pluggable like a PCMCIA card into the dock itself so no one even knows it's a dock.

Every time someone decides to dock a phone into a larger device, it is stupid. The phone needs to be the whole device aside from your input devices. If you need more than that, you're going to need more ports than you can reasonably put on a phone. But needing a proprietary dock is a non-starter. Uptake is never good on those.

The problem is the screen, which always goes to waste. At best it's used as a gimmick. Mostly it's just turned away from the user and not available at all.

Re:Microsoft is aggressively pushing Windows 10 up

[Anonymous Coward]

Speaking as a Windows Phone user: I hope they continue to be unpopular. After 5-6 android devices I'm done playing in that cess-pool and I refuse to touch an iPhone. Until the idiot plebes start using Windows Phone en masse, I'm temporarily safe from constant malware headaches.

Do they mean "not crap"?

[Anonymous Coward]

I was actually a fan of Windows Phone back with Win Phone 7. No really, it had a super great interface, better than iOS or Android. Then they changed the kernel and made Windows Phone 8 non upgradeable from 7. Ok, it's a kernel OS change, like, I get that. But it still hurt. I bought an Android phone and have never had reason to change back, especially not with their crap phones and apparently buggy releases.

But now my phone (just 2 years old!) is too "out of date" to receive the newest version of Android. I knew I should have gone with a Nexus, but it's still bullshit. Besides, some malfunction appears to be suddenly draining the battery like a mynock. So I may be in the market for a new phone. And while I love my Surface Pro 3 and would love a Surface Book even more if I could afford it, I doubt Microsoft will do anything to tempt me away from another Android phone (this time with stock Android though, thanks).

Re:Do they mean "not crap"?

[Anne Thwacks]

You might want to google "Cyanogenmod".

Re:Do they mean "not crap"?

[drinkypoo]

But now my phone (just 2 years old!) is too "out of date" to receive the newest version of Android. I knew I should have gone with a Nexus, but it's still bullshit.

If you didn't buy a phone from a vendor with a substantial fan base, you have only yourself to blame. If you had bought something popular, there would be multiple alternate ROMs available at XDA-Developers. Instead, you bought some cheap piece of shit, or alternately some gewgaw so expensive that nobody can afford it, and now there's no ROMs for it.

That, or there are, and you're complaining about a problem that the community has addressed for you...

Re:Do they mean "not crap"?

[unixisc]

What are the main things you use your phone for? Do you use a lot of apps, be it RetailMeNot or Lyft or Vonage or other such apps, or do you just use it for basic work related stuff? Depending on that would be your answer. If you don't use many apps nor go beyond free games, the Lumia is great. If you do use a lot of apps, go w/ a Nexus. Right now, Marshmallow is only available on that, and it gives you the option of getting something w/ low internal storage, but using a high density SD card as INTERNAL storage.

Also, I know that people's tastes vary, but while Windows 7 had a great laptop interface, it was horrible w/ Windows Phone 7. The Windows Phone 8 interface was great - what ruined the entire experience was Microsoft insisting on shoehorning both things under a common brand. Given that Windows 8 was a phone version of Windows RT - itself badly named - Microsoft should have called it something else - like Metro. While leaving Windows 10 alone.

If they truly wanted x-platform they'd

[Anonymous Coward]

Open source DX so I could finally break these surly gamer bonds.

Re:Microsoft is aggressively pushing Windows 10 up

[hsmith]

lmao, windows is wide open to abuse

Ummm... No Very small slice

[Anonymous Coward]

No the Surface and Surface Pro will be a very small niche of the PC market and the phone will not be in demand.

The average price of a PC continues to drop, consumers want cheap windows junk and that is what they get. Microsoft is trying to take the high end of the PC market, problem is that Apple has those consumers and has had them for a LONG time. Those Apple users will not switch to a Microsoft Surface Pro. The Surface is a POS that uses the Intel Atom chip, why are the consumers going to spend more on something that is slow junk???

The iPad and Android tablet users are not going to buy the surface as they are happy and will continue to buy the same line of products.

Apple iPhone and Android phone users also have NO reason to change.

Who will buy the Windows Surface Phones? Someone who wants a cheap phone that is 1/2 smart and can be used for texting and given to kids. The kids are the ones that cannot demand an iPhone or Android phone, so we are talking pre-high school.

Microsoft will eventually stop this cash bleeding disaster after a few more years of loss. How much pain can they tolerate? I am guessing $50 billion and the shareholders will tell them to stop fishing and go cut bait...

Cut! Cut! Cut!

[smittyoneeach]

You don't drop the phone like a mic.
You beat your forehead with it until bloody.
This is a religious ritual, remember?

Re:Cut! Cut! Cut!

[drinkypoo]

You don't drop the phone like a mic.
You beat your forehead with it until bloody.
This is a religious ritual, remember?

In that case, shouldn't I beat someone else with it until bloody? Maybe I could beat their first born child to death with it, that would be appropriately biblical.

Re:Cut! Cut! Cut!

[smittyoneeach]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatbir

Re:Cut! Cut! Cut!

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it perfectly normal for fanatically religious people to flail themselves with while walking along the road until they bleed. I guess tech people could use USB charging cables instead.

Re:Microsoft is aggressively pushing Windows 10 up

[PhrostyMcByte]

Is that why Windows Mobile 10, or whatever it is now called, got pushed back until 2016?

Pushed back? I'm using it on my phone right now.

I don't want windows 10 or whatever is next

[crbowman]

I'm tired of coming back to my desktop PC and finding Microsoft has decided to reboot it without asking me, thus losing work. I'm tired of constantly being nagged to upgrade to windows 10. I don't want all information shared with Microsoft. I really wish I could but windows 7 and down grade. I only run Windows because some dev tools for electronic design and some games only run there and I can't get PCIe slots without buying an insanely expensive MAC. I think I'm pretty much end of the line with Microsoft. Disclaimer: I run MacOS X and FreeBSD. I'm not unaware of my options but there are some things for which I want a windows PC or I want Windows to die so I don't need a windows machine but just a PC.

Re:I don't want windows 10 or whatever is next

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

I hear you, and I have the same complaints/concerns.

My guess is that I'll be running Linux Mint or possibly Ubuntu once they force the Win10 upgrade down my throat.

Barring that, I'll run Win 7....until my PC dies or drivers are no longer available for whatever new gadget I buy...and I'm thinking tat will happen within a year or so, maybe sooner.

Re:I don't want windows 10 or whatever is next

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't even think PCIe is available on any Macs anymore. There may be an adapter and housing to attach it to Lightning, though.

Re:I don't want windows 10 or whatever is next

[Anonymous Coward]

Good lord, Ubuntu fucked itself up several years ago. Before that is was ok OS, now it's plain awfull. Mint is cool though. The best OS for general use right now seems to be Windows...7.

Re:I don't want windows 10 or whatever is next

[iampiti]

I'm in this situation also: I like Windows 7 but can't stand 10. I'll continue to use 7 as long as I can, then I'll probably go Linux and maybe a secondary Win 10 partition just for gaming.
I'd pay good money to have a Windows 7 with the internals of 10 but I guess Microsoft thinks we're too few to be worth it.

Re:I don't want windows 10 or whatever is next

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

I'd pay good money to have a Windows 7 with the internals of 10 but I guess Microsoft thinks we're too few to be worth it.

Same here, but the whole "telemetry on every mouse-click and keystroke" thing is a little off-putting to me.

"very sucessful line of surface"

[Anonymous Coward]

Ignoring the first two versions entirely I guess.

Has Microsoft actually started to break even after 3 years? Surface RT - MAJOR fail. second try also failed. Surface 3 got more acceptance, but I didn't think it made any money. Surface 4 may have broken even, but still hasn't made up for the previous 3 failures.

Re:"very sucessful line of surface"

[MouseTheLuckyDog]

Don't forget the big outlay tio equip the NFL with free surfaces.
It does raise a question though. Do players get to keep their old devices and use them wherever they did before?

Re:"very sucessful line of surface"

[thegarbz]

Break even from sunk costs, no. Break even from product sales, they did that 2 years ago. The Surface Pro 3 and Surface Pro 4 lines are fully profitable, and profit has been on the steady rise since early 2014.

I like pissing on Microsoft as much as the next guy, but I bite my tongue ever since saying the same thing you just did about their Xbox line many years ago. Now I too wish I had a machine that prints money.

The Original Article is Pure Crap

[Anonymous Coward]

What made the Surface Pro and Surface Book successful was that they ran x86 windows and "full" windows programs because users wanted productivity on their 11" and larger tablets/notebooks.

There's no way that people want x86 windows programs designed for laptops/desktops on a phone form factor.

The average user uses phones as consumption devices and not productivity devices. Android and iOS have the consumption side covered with more apps that you can shake a stick at that are developed expressly for the mobile smartphone platform.

However, there is a small portion of the population that need to do some "productivity" type things on their phones... but just to blurt out a short email or text. Any more than that, then it's more efficient to use a laptop.

The article is a pure Microsoft puff piece. Sure Microsoft needs a "hit" like the Surface Pro on the phone side... but it just ain't going to happen... competition is too entrenched and the ecosystem does not revolve around Microsoft Windows at that level.

So how does it feel Microsoft, now that shoe's on the other foot?

Re:The Original Article is Pure Crap

[lord_mike]

I would disagree with you wholeheartedly... I would be potentially very interested in a "surface" phone, and I think a lot of other people would be too... depending on how it eventually worked, of course. It could potentially be a gamechanger or it could be another flop, but Microsoft is at least going outside the box to try and do something different. There is a decent demand for surface tablets. I don't see why there wouldn't be similar demand for a surface phone if it is done correctly.

Re: Microsoft is aggressively pushing Windows 10 u

[Anonymous Coward]

I am reminded of the Zune. It was a decent piece of hardware but the software sucked. And it didn't play well with anything else.

Capossela sounds familiar

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the guy who famously presented Windows USB support back in 1998: https://youtu.be/73wMnU7xbwE

I hate technology

[WaffleMonster]

Used to be excited about "new" technology because it sometimes had a purpose and offered users value and capabilities. Today all anyone can do is fuck with people. Everyone wants to be a spyware or malware vendor and they don't want to do anything useful in return for a paycheck. Much of the consumer crap being churned out today is not only worthless but hostile and even dangerous.

Why would I want a Windows phone when I'm required to have a MS account, can't use my devices GPS without uploading my location to Microsoft, can't have a local phone book without giving all of my contacts to Microsoft, can't install software not approved by Microsoft, can't use wifi without participating in MS crowd sourced skyhook spying. I'm fed up with the childish games and people constantly justifying their actions by citing who else is doing it too.

The opportunity cost of so much wasted potential is beyond sad.

Re:Microsoft is aggressively pushing Windows 10 up

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been using my 950xl with windows 10 mobile for a month

How do I make bones about it?

[Anonymous Coward]

I was told to make no bones about it but what if I want to? How would I go about making bones?

I still don't understand how anyone

[geekprime]

I still don't understand how anyone can possibly think that every device from cellphones to servers can possibly be used to their own full potential with the same damn user interface.

Either servers are going to be dumbed down or cellphones are going to be missing features, there simply is no way around that. And neither one is acceptable.

Any rational being would recognize that cellphones and servers have such different roles that differing interfaces on them would only help people to realize that there is more (or less) to this device than they know, and to rtfm before they get into real trouble,

Re:I still don't understand how anyone

[drinkypoo]

I still don't understand how anyone can possibly think that every device from cellphones to servers can possibly be used to their own full potential with the same damn user interface.
Either servers are going to be dumbed down or cellphones are going to be missing features, there simply is no way around that. And neither one is acceptable.

You are talking bollocks here. My Android tablet has got a Terminal application, and therefore it has the same interface that I use to administer Linux. Why can't a Windows tablet have the same interface used to administer a server? You can run Powershell on non-server Windows. They both have the same GUI classes. You're full of it.

Re:I still don't understand how anyone

[bingoUV]

Terminal "Application" is not "user interface". The keyboard - could be.

Even if the tablet has a mechanical keyboard, which most don't, the frequent way of usage of a tablet makes it difficult to use the keyboard. E.g. no flat platform on which to keep the keyboard, or just holding on one hand barely supported by another hand or some other pivot, etc.

Re:I still don't understand how anyone

[drinkypoo]

Even if the tablet has a mechanical keyboard, which most don't, the frequent way of usage of a tablet makes it difficult to use the keyboard. E.g. no flat platform on which to keep the keyboard, or just holding on one hand barely supported by another hand or some other pivot, etc.

The onscreen keyboard and onscreen touchpad emulation make it usable even without those things; my Asus Transformer Prime has a physical keyboard and a touchpad, and for apps which support them properly that is glorious. Some apps still assume you won't have a right button even though Android supports it, like Microsoft's latest RDP client... of course.

Re:I still don't understand how anyone

[bingoUV]

Usable. You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

"Spiritual" and "Microsoft" don't belong together.

[Futurepower(R)]

"I've worked for Microsoft and in my experience they couldn't pour piss out of a boot with the instructions written on the heel..."

From the summary: "Capossela has been with Microsoft for over two decades. He used to write speeches for Bill Gates..." That indicates: 1) Bill Gates wasn't able to write his own speeches. 2) What Bill Gates said in a speech was not what he actually thought.

Anyone Remember Windows on Flip Phones?

[Anonymous Coward]

I remember my old Motorola MPX-220 flip phone that ran windows. They just shrank the desktop GUI down to 1.5" for the screen, and removed mouse functionality. It was brilliant.

Re:"Spiritual" and "Microsoft" don't belong togeth

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

From the summary: "Capossela has been with Microsoft for over two decades. He used to write speeches for Bill Gates..." That indicates: 1) Bill Gates wasn't able to write his own speeches. 2) What Bill Gates said in a speech was not what he actually thought.

#1 seems to be a given, but I don't know about #2.

It may just be that Capossela was able to craft a better speech or was a better writer, but it doesn't necessarily follow that he wasn't expressing what Gates wanted expressed. It's likely Gates gave him direction on what he wanted said and that they worked together on the final text. That's often the way it's done.

Spiritual indeed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Spiritual is the word. No normal person uses a windows phone that I know of, I only see them in movies and TV series, where MS paid them to use them. So I guess only gurus and eremites use them.

Re:Spiritual indeed.

[MouseTheLuckyDog]

Don't forget the NFL.
As a Bears fan and a Packer hater, Ioved when Rodgers the that Surface at the end of the Panthers game.

Pissed off two foes at once.

Re:Microsoft is aggressively pushing Windows 10 up

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh, same here. The bloody thing (cheapo Lumia 550) sometimes feels more smooth than my Sony Xperia Z3C (in theory two years' ago premium phone). It has basically confirmed what I've been suspecting all these last two years using android: java (or android) is a pig.

Re: "Spiritual" and "Microsoft" don't belong toget

[Anonymous Coward]

Who cares if he had a speech writer. Tons of people do. Get off your high horse and recompile your kernel

Re:Microsoft is aggressively pushing Windows 10 up

[Anonymous Coward]

So you're speaking as an idiot, then? Not only is Windows and windows phone a cesspool of shit, but so is their ecosystem. Windows has more viruses, malware and ransomware then all of the apps in the Apple App Store and Google Play Store combined. As for windows phone, that stillborn, POS OS has no apps because no one wants to develop for a garbage ecosystem.

Microsoft's struggles

[unixisc]

How would that really be different from their Lumias today?

Microsoft has 2 problem - the first being that it's failed to get mindshare of app devs who otherwise are happy to support both iOS and Android. Almost every app you see out there supports those 2 OSs, but not Windows Phone/Mobile. Their other issue is that they've failed to get clout w/ the carriers so that they rather than the carriers can push phone updates, like Apple does and like Google is starting to do beginning w/ Lollipop. I'm not sure about AT&T and T-Mobile, but Verizon neither promotes the Lumias and just drags its feet on the official updates to Windows 10 for the 735 and the Ikon. Also, Microsoft's Surface Pro w/ cellular support don't support CDMA cellular standards.

How exactly would a surface phone be different from a Lumia? Having Atom or Core CPUs instead of ARMs? The current Lumias are fine in their interface and everything - what they need is to support at least all the popular apps, like Lyft, Uber, Vonage, et al. Once they can get Windows 10 Mobile supported w/ the likes of Android and iOS across the market, their phones will have a greater appeal

Re: Microsoft's struggles

[Anonymous Coward]

Just to throw this out there, uber does support WP

Re: Microsoft's struggles

[unixisc]

Uber is actually split - there is Uber for passengers, and Uber Partner for drivers. Uber Partner doesn't exist on Windows Phones, so if one is a driver, he is SOL. Lyft integrates both aspects, and it's not there on Windows Phone

Re:Microsoft's struggles

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

How would that really be different from their Lumias today?

The only thing I know about Lumias (and WP devices in general) is that the "app store" is a barren wasteland.

And that's fine with me, I'm not an appaholic but I still don't want a Windows phone. They try to push them on us on the Redmond campus and my stock response is "No, no no no no no no no."

Re:Microsoft is aggressively pushing Windows 10 up

[unixisc]

Is that why Windows Mobile 10, or whatever it is now called, got pushed back until 2016? I am sure people will be busting down doors to buy this new phone, maybe they'll break 5% market share in Beruit!

Pushed back? One can already get a Lumia 950/XL, which comes w/ Windows 10 Mobile. Only thing they haven't yet done is upgrade all their other phones to 10. They need to take back the OS upgrade capabilities from the carriers

And I care about the words of Microsoft's CMO....

[Anonymous Coward]

And I care about the words of Microsoft's CMO.... ...why, exactly?

Book: "The Road Ahead" gave no useful information.

[Futurepower(R)]

Here is a New York Times review of a book by Gates and 2 others, The Road Ahead. Quotes:

"... the book he has written with Nathan Myhrvold, a vice president at Microsoft, and Peter Rinearson, a freelance journalist, is bland and tepid."

"The Road Ahead" is in fact little more than a positioning document, sold in book form with accompanying CD-ROM and designed mainly to advance the interests of the Microsoft Corporation.

CMO?

[Anonymous Coward]

Chief Medical Officer?
Chief Moronic Officer?
Child Molesting Officer?

It's worse than I'm saying.

[Futurepower(R)]

You haven't read the books.

Global Mother Fucking Spyware?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is she cute?