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Copyright Expires On Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf
HughPickens.com writes: Adolf Hitler's Nazi manifesto Mein Kampf was originally printed in 1925 — eight years before Hitler came to power. After Nazi Germany was defeated in 1945, the Allied forces handed the copyright to the book to the state of Bavaria who refused to allow the book to be reprinted to prevent incitement of hatred. Now BBC reports that under European copyright law, the rights of an author of a literary or artistic work runs for the life of the author and for 70 years after his death — in Hitler's case on 30 April 1945, when he shot himself in his bunker in Berlin, so for the first time in 70 years, Mein Kampf will be available to buy in Germany.
Authorizing the book's release into the public domain has been a tortuous process. In 2012 it was agreed, after much consultation between Bavarian authorities and representatives of Jewish and Roma communities, that a scholarly edition should be planned in an attempt to demystify the book. Munich's Institute of Contemporary History will publish the new edition with thousands of academic notes, will aim to show that Mein Kampf (My Struggle) is incoherent and badly written, rather than powerful or seductive. From the original book's 1,000 pages, the publisher has produced a two-volume book that is twice as long as the original, with 3,700 annotations. Christian Hartmann, one of the team of five historians who spent several years working on the academic edition, described his relief at being able to analyze the text, even if he felt in need of regularly airing his tiny Munich office in order to cope with the task. "It is a real feeling of triumph, to be able to pick over this rubbish and then to debunk it bit by bit."
Authorizing the book's release into the public domain has been a tortuous process. In 2012 it was agreed, after much consultation between Bavarian authorities and representatives of Jewish and Roma communities, that a scholarly edition should be planned in an attempt to demystify the book. Munich's Institute of Contemporary History will publish the new edition with thousands of academic notes, will aim to show that Mein Kampf (My Struggle) is incoherent and badly written, rather than powerful or seductive. From the original book's 1,000 pages, the publisher has produced a two-volume book that is twice as long as the original, with 3,700 annotations. Christian Hartmann, one of the team of five historians who spent several years working on the academic edition, described his relief at being able to analyze the text, even if he felt in need of regularly airing his tiny Munich office in order to cope with the task. "It is a real feeling of triumph, to be able to pick over this rubbish and then to debunk it bit by bit."
Good to see copyright expiring in real life. Meanwhile the Ann Franck Fonds sues whoever publishes the Diary, 70 years after her fate.
How much of a work can be included for the purposes of critique, and how much does this vary from nation to nation?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
If only we could apply this to other works too...
I'd love it if all copies of The Communist Manifesto came pre-Fisked. It would help people from getting confused their first year in college.
Hire a Linux system administrator, systems engineer,
Why the fuzz over this old book?
The book has been available in almost all countries except Germany, it is available on Amazon in both German and English, and it is of course available on the Internet, e.g. on www.hitler.org. Anyone interested in Mein Kampf can read it for free or for a few dollars. It hasn't caused a neo-nazi uprise anywhere so far, and it won't even if it is published in Germany.
I don't get it.
Hey, Dice and HughPickens.com, what's with all the posts linking to "The Grauniad"?
It's more like an attempt to bury the book completely in the annotations so nobody wants to read it, including scholars. Which is probably the point of the exercise.
"It is a real feeling of triumph, to be able to pick over this rubbish and then to debunk it bit by bit."
It was kind of a... triumph of the will.
Somewhat related: also the diary of Anne Frank is now in the public domain under the same rules, since she died about 2 months before Hitler. This is disputed by the Anne Frank Foundation, who claims that her father was co-author and that the work should thus remain under copyright for at least another 15 years. As a protest, the Dutch original text is now put online by several French politicians.
karma police: arrest this man, he talks in maths; he buzzes like a fridge, he's like a detuned radio. [radiohead]
This is about copyrights actually expiring thus "unlocking" the material from the equivalent of the Disney Vault (_citation_) so to speak; oh, if I only had a dollar for every person on Earth that does not know copyrights have an expiration date...
That being said, in still Pre-TPP Canada, our expiration date is "only" half a century after the entire remaining lifespan of the author, so in this (and in many, many others) Mein Kampf has been in the public domain for two decades, and I don't see a large National Socialist Canadian Worker's Party.
When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
This coming from the channel that brought us Ancient Aliens. It's on TV (and the name of the channel is "history"), so it must be true, amirite?
I was thinking the opposite, just publish it. Our societies are more and more afraid of letting people make up their own minds (however much of a struggle that may be) without guidance and context which add their own, often hidden biases.
After reading that editor's comments, I half expect the book to be published with lots of crossings-out and big red scrawls saying, "WRONG!!! Do it again!!!! F minus".
I hope the added material will try to be measured and reasonable for a critical reader to accept and not just say "Hitler bad". Which he was.
I'd not heard of fisking before (outside file-systems) but I highly recommend Robert Fisk's "The Great War for Civilization".
If only we could apply this to other works too... I'd love it if all copies of The Communist Manifesto came pre-Fisked. It would help people from getting confused their first year in college.
Nothing helps freshmen from getting confused in their first year in college. Take away one source of confusion and plenty of others will take its place.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
It really is the perfect timing. Trump can have people "write" "My Kampf!" with his name on it, and make a fortune selling it to the dummies.
I don't respond to AC's.
Check out El Escape De Hitler on Netflix. It presents a fairly convincing argument that he escaped. If nothing else, it's worth noting the results of the DNA test on the skull fragment in 2009.
Copyright is based on authorship. So, while the main text of Mein Kampf is in the public domain, this new two-volume work will legitimately claim a new copyright. The new copyright will come from all those notes, which were created through acts of authorship. Contrary to the other contemporary story of Otto Frank, editorship is sweat of the brow, while authorship is creativity (see https://www.gutenberg.org/wiki... , for example). Translation does qualify as authorship, since is an intellectual creative act. (Dunno about machine translation...)
In the US, public domain items often have a copyright claim due to a new preface, or introduction or even cover art. Check some of the "Penguin Classics" in your local bookstore for examples. For Mein Kampf, all that added content will create a mixed item, where extracting just the public domain content (minus notes and whatever else is new) will take some effort. Luckily, the public domain text is already widely available without the new notes.
As mentioned, copyright expiry based on life+70 has no bearing in the US for items published prior to 1978 (https://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Gutenberg:Copyright_How-To). Due to GATT, no copyright renewal was required after 28 years for items published outside of the US to get the full copyright term. The translations into English were not made until after the original German, of course. In the US, copyright will expire 95 years after publication based on the current USC Title 17 (which, as we know, TPP might force to change). But that's another story...
- gbn
If only we could apply this to other works too... I'd love it if all copies of The Communist Manifesto came pre-Fisked. It would help people from getting confused their first year in college.
That, and the Quran, Hadiths, Tafseers and Sira - the 'sacred' books of Islam. That is, take all these works, annotate them heavily w/ the critiques of Ali Sina, Srjda Trifkovic, Bat Yeor and others who have studied it from something other than a devotional approach, and then release it. Outlaw the original versions of Bukhari, Ibn Khatir, Ibn Ishaq, Jalalayn, Mawdidi and so on. It would help decontaminate the mind of today's Nazis i.e. non-agnostic Muslims.
They kinda jumped the gun.
Makes you wonder whether that piece is still copyrighted...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Are you agreeing or disagreeing with GPP?
I agree - just publish it. If you're afraid that the population will be seduced by it, you have bigger problems than the book.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Dinosaurs and the Civil War on the History Network
We'd need someone who likes to make entrances from above and has a signature hand gesture...
Did he ever want to convey the impression that he wasn't a racist? I thought the whole point of that book was that the Germans were the master race destined to rule the world.
Disney's lawyers could have told them how to make their copyright last forever.
https://vault.fbi.gov/adolf-hitler/adolf-hitler-part-01-of-04/view
So the FBI docs are fake?
" the Allied forces handed the copyright to the book to the state of Bavaria "
There's your problem right away. They had no right to do that, the guy was never put on trial much less convicted and even if, getting his copyright stolen is not one of any punishments in Germany or any other country.
The Schicklgruber (Hitler's name before they changed it) family should have gotten the money instead.
It's ready for a certain someone to create a derivative work.
"Mein Kampf" was arguably a derivative work itself. There were a lot of others writing similar racialist pamphlets or books in the late 19th- and early 20th- centuries. The only difference is this author had a political career and started a war. Otherwise, he would have just been another forgotten blowhard. IMHO, the book is probably only interesting to historians, in the same way early Marxist or Leninist literature might be... to understand the political debates of the time against the backdrop of the industrial revolution and families being uprooted from their homes to work in cities, etc.
You know who else wrote a book? Hilter!
IMHO, the book is probably only interesting to historians
There is still a Nazi movement in Germany. When I was in school, there were people who liked to read it, although I wasn't sure why. Probably as a symbol of rebellion or something, I was never sure if they liked to read it or just carry it around with them.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
The same for the Bible since there are many different versions, not to mention the Old and New Testaments or the many books the Vatican refuses to acknowledge as part of its history, such as the Gospel of Mary.
If one could get into the underground Vatican library and root around for one day, the amount of contradictory material and hidden treasures of Catholic doctrine being butchered would be very enlightening.
I know someone who's sister does translations of old Latin and has been to the library. According to her, if you don't know the exact title of the book or manuscript you are looking for, the librarians play dumb.
If you do give them the correct name, they get it for you. You are not allowed to go to the shelf/drawer/whatever to get it, presumably so you can't see what else they have hidden.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
If you're afraid that the population will be seduced by it, you have bigger problems than the book.
+5 Insightful . . . probably the most insightful thing that I have read on Slashdot in the last 20 years. Now if my mod points had not only slid down the cracks in my sofa tonight . . .
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
"Mein Kampf" was arguably a derivative work itself. There were a lot of others writing similar racialist pamphlets or books in the late 19th- and early 20th- centuries.
Such as Henry Ford. Much of Mein Kampf is plagiarized from a German translation of Ford's The International Jew.
>Outlaw the original versions
Outlawing books? What THE FUCK is wrong with you?
"Mein Kampf" was arguably a derivative work itself.
Not "arguably" but actually was.
It plagiarized The International Jew (in Germany The Eternal Jew) and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion (which itself is a plagiarized work), the former written by Henry Ford (yes, that one) and the latter funded by Ford in its first widespread US publication.
To say that it's a derivative document is an understatement.
--
BMO
FBI docs describing someone who says Hitler did land in Argentina? I see no reason they'd be fake. I'm sure there are several accounts from people seeing UFOs in FBI docs as well, for example. Evidence it is not.
Fuck off.
Fuck off, coward.
Aaron Rogers?
Holocaust denial modded up to +3. Seems like we've got a rash of neo-nazis with mod points.
Sadly I have none, but please someone mod parent down.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Autism is a helluva drug
-- Counting backwards since 1984!
Even so, whenever you're trying to get that point across, decorum requires that you begin with "I'm not a racist, but..."
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
There is still a Nazi movement in Germany
Hitler's chalet above Berchtesgaden, the Kehlsteinhaus*, is now a tourist attraction, with a nice restaurant and tour guides who are quite upfront about the history. However, it has an ongoing problem with Hitlerpilger, "Hitler pilgrims" who hike up at night and leave little bouquets and love notes for the Fuhrer around the ruins of his Berghof nearby.
*Non-German media call it the Eagle's Nest, after a metaphor attached to it by a visiting journalist circa 1938; but in Germany it is and always has been the Kehlsteinhaus, named for the minor peak it sits on.
The only vague reference to a copyright topic in the summary (and the Guardian article) is
Authorizing the book's release into the public domain has been a tortuous process.
which is of course complete rubbish. The copyright ended according to law on New Years Eve and the book was thus automatically released into the Public Domain. No process needed for that nor was it tortuous. The commented edition which was written by German scholars during the last years (and had to overcome some political problems) is a completely different topic and has nothing to do with the original book now being Public Domain.
So what does this have to do with copyright (except maybe showing that copyright outside the US can still work)?
I agree - just publish it. If you're afraid that the population will be seduced by it, you have bigger problems than the book.
Better still, every book sold could have a percent of the proceeds donated to a Jewish charity. It wouldn't be the first time. I borrowed the idea from a January 1939 newspaper article
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
and the T-Potty
What a really clever retort. I'd have to say that the problem of edumacation extends well beyond your targets. You ever thought about reading a book or something?
I'd love it if all copies of The Communist Manifesto came pre-Fisked
As would I with APK posts. In fact, I feel so strongly about it that I opened a page on my wiki to collaboratively Fisk APK's claims about hosts.
Any reason you pluralized...
Probably to troll grammar National Socialists. You bit.
Would it be better to try for an automatic first post by linking to Tech2?
It is a real feeling of triumph, to be able to pick over this rubbish and then to debunk it bit by bit.
It really sounds like their is nothing scholarly about the edition. More like the Mocking Hitler Edition. Coupled with the original text, which judging by its title, this has to be the most vainglorious and conceited book ever written.
But seriously, we cannot just release a book with undoubtable historical significance. Because, it was written by the losing side in one of the most recent wars we have to deface it first?
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
When can we end this insanity that is copyright? How does anyone think it is a good idea to allow copyright to be used to totally prevent and suspress the use of intellectual property?
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
If you're afraid that the population will be seduced by it, you have bigger problems than the book.
Was there any doubt?
That's why governments are afraid of publishing the book: because the population, by large, is borderline retarded, not from an IQ perspective, but from a "bar height" perspective. Meaning most people would fail the rule called "don't readily believe any shit that's thrown your way".
Note: I don't agree with keeping the book under wraps, but I understand why that was desired.
...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
"A short but well evinced essay that knocks out key supports ought to be plenty to cause a book that is supposed to be badly written and not supported by the facts to be widely cast aside."
Not to mention that we shouldn't do any book burnings, the Nazis did enough of those.
The ally imposed a series of drastic law aiming at censoring nazism the idea of them was to avoid resurgence , thus there is strict restriction on showing nazi symbol in germany, which is why among other wolfenstein new order was censored, and south park too. Those law were never revoked.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Like I suggested, it would be on the same grounds as Mein Kamph. The books I mentioned have a geopolitical agenda not too different from this one. Mr allah's rasool was not too different from der Fuhrer
Just how much faith do you have in the FBI? JFK assassination, anyone?
That's in TODAY'S politically correct culture. In those days, that was the last thing on anyone's mind even in the rest of Europe, never mind Nazi Germany
Since everything that is withheld from the public is interesting per se, I of course did read "Mein Kampf" (in its original book form). It's such a boring disappointment in every way, poorly written, lots of contradictions in itself, the kind of weird writing you'd expect from a political extremist with mental issues.
The only interesting (and saddening) thing about "Mein Kampf" is how much it is mystified by the governments attempts to keep it away from the public. It should have been one of the original sources you read in school - along with Mao's red book and alike. After all, it's better to know for people what kind of writing to expect from people who later become mass murderers.
... moon, planning his return using Reichsflugscheiben, right? It's funny how people cannot accept mundane occurences of death whenever celebrities are involved.
It's more boring and worse writing than Atlas Shrugged, so liking to read it would require some serious dedication. But I think that anyone who is seriously political should read it even so. It's important to understand what makes the enemies of a free society tick.
Like I suggested, it would be on the same grounds as Mein Kamph.
And it would be just as bad of an idea.
Outlawing books is always the wrong answer. Always.
See, freedom isn't free. A lot of Captain Freedom types forget this, but the ideal of free speech doesn't exist because speech is harmless. It's simply a compromise - the oppression of dangerous speech is considered more harmful than the speech itself.
Populations can be and have been seduced by this kind of material. In fact we are talking about a book that is quite famous for doing just that.
If you truely believe in the principle of free speech you need to engage with this fact honestly and say "I am comfortable with the danger". Others (especially minorities) might take a different view.
It was war reparations and the collapse of the German economy in 1931 and then the Great Depression that led to WW2, not a book, and especially not this book.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
There are so many other things on my reading list higher than that, I'm not sure I'll ever make it to reading it.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Hence the continued popularity of Che t-shirts.
Meh... I'm mixed racially, certainly not a skinhead or a Nazi, and I've read it. I even read it while I was still a teen. I did a report on it for a history class. The teacher was, shall we say, right pissed but she was unbiased in her grading. We had a *discussion* about what was and what was not appropriate material to present for in-class reports. That would be the same year I did an entire oral biology report on a sperm whale's penis. It was a rebellious year. It was the early 1970s, it's what we did.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Where do you live that the book is not published? I have an English translation and a copy in its original plastic shrinkwrap from some Soviet Union print shop. I have skimmed parts of the former and, obviously, never opened the latter. I bought it from a collector friend and got a copy of Anna Karenina in the same style of wrapping from him at the same time - though, oddly, I think that one is in German - it's two books and both are wrapped in much the same as the first and in very good condition though the plastic is aged and a bit worn.
Oh, I live in the US. I can get books like that if I want. It's not actually an issue with the government or anything. I don't even imagine that my owning it has put me on any watch lists or anything. Hell, I've even had security clearance with that same government. Whilst there were a bunch of invasive questions on that form, I don't recall them asking if I'd read or owned a copy of the book. At the time, however, I'd have been able to truthfully answer in the negative.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
The parallels are perfect. I know you were modded down since /. is full of the hate America first crowd, but you basically got it right. The only thing I'd correct is drop the qualifier 'Radical' in front of Islam. A lot of stuff in Mein Kamph is there in the Quran and Sunnah, and those are the sacred books of Islam as a whole. In other words, there is no 'moderate Islam' that is even SILENT on Islam's geopolitical goals - let alone explicitly disowning it. And how CAN there be, when their founder Mohammed lived a live very similar to ISIL Jihadis of today
There's a small, but reasonable, argument to be made specifically in regards to this book. Hitler authored (perhaps - there's some credence to the theory that he was not exclusively the author) this book whilst he sat in prison. Well, it was sort of a prison. He had things like guests and quite a bit of freedom but we'll ignore that for now.
Here's the important part:
This book sold like hotcakes. In fact, it made him (and thus the Party) quite a bit of money. This money enabled him to do many things, during his ascent to power. This book also gave him additional fame - fame he might not have had without this book. This book was a significant part of his rise to power, as a contributing factor.
Two reasonable conclusions to make:
This does not, by any means, suggest that I'm advocating censorship of this material - surely you would not think so poorly of me, I hope.
There's some chance, however small, that things might not have gone quite the same way had Hitler never published this book.
Those are the only conclusions that I'm willing to draw. Anything else is speculation and I am not a qualified historian. It is true, however, that the party was kind of well funded prior to this book's publication but Hitler, himself, was not - he also really wasn't that famous outside of his circle until after this book's publication. The book was quit a hit and generated a lot of money for both the publishing house(s) and Hitler.
It's not entirely erroneous to speculate that things may have been different without the *publication* of Mein Kampf. As I think you were saying, it is entirely incorrect to speculate that the *material* in the book was even a major contributing factor to the war. On that we agree. in fact, we mostly agree already - I am pretty sure I'm mostly just adding to what you said.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
You want to outlaw books of a certain nature? While I don't normally entirely agree with you - I don't normally completely disagree with you.
This is a first. I'm sure I needn't write a novella as to why. If I have to then, well, that's a second time. Go home unixisc, you're drunk.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
For amusement, you should read "Another Roadside Attraction" by Tom Robbins.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
A couple of reasons. One is that the people who do are mainly non-White, even though Muslims are not a race and have an even mix of South East Asians, Semites - Arabs, Mongoloids - Turks and Indo-Europeans - Farsis and South Asians, and blacks - North African Bedouin, Taureg and Barbers. So despite the fact that Muslims have as much issues w/ Infidels of similar races - Christian & Buddhist Indonesians and Malaysians, Buddhist and Hindu Bangladeshis, Hindu Indians, Christian, Hindu and Sikh Pakistanis, Christian, Jewish, Zoroastrian and Baha'i Iranians, Copts, Maronites, Assyrians, Barber Christians and so on, to people in the West, such a face-off looks like a racial divide, even if it is not.
Then there is the other aspect of Islam being a recognized religion, and thereby getting the same deference as other religions, such as Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, et al. Totally glossing over the fact that while there are no geopolitical components to the Bible, Torah or other such literature, there very much is in the Quran and Sunnah.
The end result is that on the Left, you have people who want to appease Muslims b'cos they are non-Whites, while on the Right, you have people who want to appease Muslims b'cos they are devoted theists and thereby presumably allies of Christians in the political war against Leftist Atheism.
Except that from what I know, Indians do not have geopolitical designs on the rest of the world. They're even opposed to getting back Pakistan & Bangladesh, since their Muslim problem would then be bigger & stronger than ever before.
Since we're talking India here, why would teaching kids 'Mein Kamph' be preferable to teaching them what's in the Ramayan or the Mahabharat?
I have never met Nazi sympathizers among US Indians. Where should I look?
Like Debbie Schlussel once said, it's high time Jews and others focus less on the Nazis of yesterday, and more on the Nazis of today - the Jihadis.
Hitler's chalet above Berchtesgaden, the Kehlsteinhaus*, is now a tourist attraction, with a nice restaurant
I'd suggest examining that menu really, really closely before choosing to eat there. Maybe skip the meat dishes altogether.
#DeleteChrome
Better Bier und Weisswurst than we ever had hereabouts...
Well, we do have bigger problems than just the book. With people graduating high school unable to read, it's obvious that many more are intellectually disarmed. There are those who will read hate-filled books and be carried along with the message. The failure to get an opposing viewpoint is part of why we're having so much trouble with murderous Muslims today. We don't need more crazies.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
...........I have no comment on that -_-
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
You are so single-minded it's hilarious, yet bordering on worrying. What happened to you? Can a society be that broken that people like you are wilfully released onto the streets? You are getting confused by some very simple terms, and keep on making some rather entertaining spelling mistakes time and time again. Why anyone should listen to your childish hate is beyond me, especially when neither facts nor even spelling agree with you.
I always meant to seek out an english translation and read it. You know, being one of the most famous books in all of history, feels like I should be familiar with more than its title. I mean fuck, I read Uncle Tom's Cabin and I can't imagine Hitler is half as terrible of an author; then again, maybe he is worst.
I always hated how Stowe would stop the narrative to directly talk down to the reader. "The negro is, not by his nature, violent" still stands out 20 years later. I could almost see Hitler being worst about that.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
I am not comfortable with danger, which is why I'm trying to minimize it. And that means not giving the next Hitler wannabe a fully functional censorship machine to silence any opposition with.
They're free to do so, but in the light of the entire human history that makes them either idiots or Hitler wannabes.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Pre existing works were already there, which can take over... They are known as the Sunnah. They have everything - a master race (a different master race - the Arabs, but the same concept), Judeophobia, and a whole lot more. They are to Mein Kamph what BSD is to Linux.
As long as they come out of college with tens of thousands of dollars of debt they'll likely be stuck with their whole life they're going to be "confused" by a system which promises free education.
As long as you have social classes the cycle of the topmost class looting those below it until they go too far and cause a social or economic collapse is going to repeat itself. Banning books won't change that. The idea of a better world is inherent in an imperfect one.
But I suppose we could call it "Capitalism 2.0", if it helps.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
A lot of people have asked, "how was Hitler so good at propaganda?" The answer is, he wasn't......he just tapped into things people were already thinking. Poor Mahler had a tough time of it, and even Mendelssohn, because they were jews.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
I don't know that the scale is necessarily smaller. Sure, Turkey is flexing its muscles vis a vis the Kurds, and enabling people to join ISIS. THAT part is smaller.
But today's Turkey is no longer the Turkey of Kemal, that desperately wanted to re-invent itself as a part of Europe. Part of that fault is Europe's for insisting that Turkey be as democratic as European countries are. Problem w/ that is that the Turkish people are NOT the pluralistic type who tolerate national criticism. For instance, look at their insistence on the denial of the Armenian holocaust. That would have been universally acknowledged as a holocaust had people in the West not been fearful of Turkey taking umbrage. But an 'European' Turkey would have owned up to the holocaust and done what it could to ensure that it never happened again. Also, a European Turkey would have been a pluralistic Turkey, and religious freedom to be not just Muslims, but Christians or other religions as well would also have been there. There wouldn't have been any persecution of either Armenians or Kurds. Problem is that while trying to replace Islamic pride w/ Turkish pride, no attempt was made at a Turkish equivalent of an enlightenment & reformation that would have made Turkey more compatible w/ Europe.
As a result, the European insistence, while resulting in the Turkish army's hold on the country weakening, also resulted in enabling Islamic forces like Erdogan's, who are NOT interested in a future in Europe. Rather, they are interested in reviving Turkey's glorious Islamic past - under both the Seljuq and Ottoman empires. They are rediscovering their Turkic roots and trying to extend their influence to the ex Soviet stans - 5 of which are ethnically Turkic. On the Islamic side - after all, the Ottoman empire was the last caliphate - they are doing what they can to rally Sunni forces around them, and being smack dab next to ISIS in Syria, that is made easier.
So in terms of Syria, what Turkey is doing is a much smaller scale. But if Turkey manages to rally the Sunni world around it, it will be a succession to the last time they did that - under the Ottomans.
I know you'd disagree, but 'Muslims' would be correct. Not all, or even most, of the Jihadi activity that has happened has been Arab. The San Bernardino massacre was done by a Pakistani couple - those people are wannabe Arabs. The Tsarnaev brothers were Chechens - who are Circussian Muslims. While Paris was done by, among others, a Syrian refugee and the Chattanooga by a Kuwaiti, there have been Bosnians (at the Salt Lake mall some years ago), Albanians (at Ft Dix), Iranian (at UNC Chapel Hill) and other Jihadi attacks done by Muslims, but not Arabs. ISIS has been getting support not just from Sunni Arabs - as too many in the West think - but from Sunnis worldwide - Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, the Stans, Libya, as well as Muslim populations in the West. Not to mention people they convert online.
'Radical' is a redundant adjective, given that there is no such thing as 'moderate Islam' that is even silent on Jihad, let alone explicitly condemning and disowning the concept. Only thing I'd agree - this disease is by no means restricted to Liberals. Too many Conservatives - in fact a whole range of Conservatives - are as much in bed w/ the Jihadis as are Liberals. That can easily be gathered from the general Republican establishment reaction to comments on Muslims by both Trump (on banning their entry) and Carson (on not supporting a Muslim for president). Those guys who are equivocal on illegal immigration suddenly get unhinged when anything negative is said about Muslims.
The failure to get an opposing viewpoint is part of why we're having so much trouble with murderous Muslims today.
The majority of Muslims are against murder, same as the majority of Christians. If we're going to hate on all muslims because of the acts of a small minority, then we should also hate on all christians because of the acts of a small minority. Do you really want to go down that road?
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
In Germany, it was a book far more displayed than read. Goebbels did his best to convince everyone that Mein Kampf was the perfect wedding gift, partly so Hitler would make more in royalties. I can't imagine any ordinary person making it through the first chapter, but having one visible was a sign of agreement with the Party.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Goebbels did his best to convince everyone that Mein Kampf was the perfect wedding gift,
That.......is kind of hilarious.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
It was a lot more complicated than that (most things are). Germany was in a bad way, but there were other ways it could have gone. Hitler played a very large role in going from that situation into aggressive war. Mein Kampf wasn't that important as a book, but it's one thing you can read to try to understand Hitler.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
I can never remember what directory mein.conf is located in.
Why just a Jewish charity? Many other groups were targeted by the Nazis and plenty others were impacted by their actions.
You know what I find really weird? 364 comments and NO mention of Godwin's Law. Oh well, someone has t do it!
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Yup. Back then, if you were racist, you didn't claim not to be a racist, since racism was socially acceptable pretty much everywhere. Races were also broken down more finely (without scientific justification, of course), so the Germans and Japanese considered themselves superior races, as compared to, e.g., the French and Korean races.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Donald Trump has his total party platform free of charge.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
however much of a struggle that may be
I see what you did there.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
In the end Che was just a serial killer. He set off on that road to madness and was enabled by powerful outside forces. There are plenty of other homicidal maniacs out there. But college freshmen in the US don't generally wear Noriega, Saddam Hussein, Pol Pot, or Idi Amin tee-shirts.