Microsoft Ends Support For Internet Explorer 8-10 and Windows 8 (venturebeat.com)

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Microsoft Ends Support For Internet Explorer 8-10 and Windows 8 (venturebeat.com)

Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday January 12, 2016 @12:08PM from the done-and-done dept.

An anonymous reader writes: Microsoft today ended support for old versions of Internet Explorer, including IE8, IE9, and IE10, as well as Windows 8. For the browsers, the company has also released a final patch (KB3123303) that includes the latest cumulative security updates and an "End of Life" upgrade notification. In short, the final patch will nag Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 users to upgrade to Internet Explorer: A new tab will automatically open the download IE page. It doesn’t appear Microsoft has plans to push similar notifications for Vista, Windows Server 2008, or Windows Server 2008 R2 users, but this isn’t too surprising: They can’t upgrade to IE11 or Edge without upgrading their operating system. While support for Windows 8 has ended, Windows 8.1 will have Mainstream Support until January 9, 2018 and Extended Support until January 10, 2023.

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Clickbaity summary title by Moheeheeko · 2016-01-12 12:12 · Score: 3, Informative

You cant say Microsoft is no longer supporting Win8 in the title and later in the article clarify that they are supporting Win8.1, they are the same fucking thing, one just has more updates to it.
1. Re:Clickbaity summary title by sunderland56 · 2016-01-12 12:28 · Score: 1, Informative
  
  Legally, Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 are different products. There are certain legal requirements for length of support.
  Personally I'm not that worried; still using Firefox on Windows XP. Works fine.
2. Re:Clickbaity summary title by Curunir_wolf · 2016-01-12 12:31 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  You cant say Microsoft is no longer supporting Win8 in the title and later in the article clarify that they are supporting Win8.1, they are the same fucking thing, one just has more updates to it.
  Not really - it's a different kernel, including boot loader and everything. You can't just say "it's more updates" - that would mean Windows 7 is the same as Windows 10 because "more updates".
  I wrote a certification book on Windows 8 that then had to have tons of revisions for Windows 8.1 because we (and the publisher) decided it was not worth doing a production run for the Windows 8 manuals. Trust me, it's a different operating system.
  
  --
  "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
  --- Jerry Garcia
3. Re:Clickbaity summary title by freeze128 · 2016-01-12 12:55 · Score: 1
  
  Support has ended for Windows XP.... We all know this. Support for Windows 7 will continue until 2021. Why the hell is the article saying that Windows 8 support has ended?
4. Re:Clickbaity summary title by PRMan · 2016-01-12 13:14 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Because you are now required to upgrade to 8.1 or 10 if you want support.
  
  --
  Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
5. Re:Clickbaity summary title by turkeydance · 2016-01-12 13:28 · Score: 0
  
  +1 agree. XP 4 me.
6. Re:Clickbaity summary title by epyT-R · 2016-01-12 13:29 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  Its kernel was updated, yes, but so was winxp's over win2k's.. They all hail from NT. It's really the same operating system underneath all the retread they've managed to layer on top of it over the years.
7. Re:Clickbaity summary title by swalve · 2016-01-12 13:32 · Score: 1
  
  What legal requirements?
8. Re:Clickbaity summary title by arglebargle_xiv · 2016-01-12 14:28 · Score: 2
  
  Except that you'll be forced to upgrade to Win10 by increasingly aggressive MS malware long before then...
9. Re:Clickbaity summary title by rickb928 · 2016-01-12 15:13 · Score: 0
  
  Your car's tires are the same old damned tires. You just wrapped new rubber on the wheels...
  
  --
  deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
10. Re:Clickbaity summary title by viperidaenz · 2016-01-12 15:16 · Score: 1
  
  http://windows.microsoft.com/e... disagrees with you.
  Windows 8 is supported until 2023, as long as you have the Windows 8.1 Update
11. Re:Clickbaity summary title by Golden_Rider · 2016-01-12 15:42 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Windows 8.1 is a "service pack" for Windows 8. Microsoft only supports the "service pack-less" version of an OS for one year after the service pack has been made available. So, if you want support for your Windows 8 machine, you need to update to Windows 8.1. It is the same for Windows 7, by the way. Support for Windows 7 *without service pack 1* has already ended in 2013.
12. Re:Clickbaity summary title by Curunir_wolf · 2016-01-12 15:43 · Score: 1
  
  http://windows.microsoft.com/e... disagrees with you. Windows 8 is supported until 2023, as long as you have the Windows 8.1 Update
  Microsoft marketing. Try checking the actually methods they use to track their operating system and you'll see the truth.
  
  --
  "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
  --- Jerry Garcia
13. Re:Clickbaity summary title by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 16:19 · Score: 0
  
  You know, the IANL kind of legal requirements.
14. Re:Clickbaity summary title by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 16:32 · Score: 1
  
  You mean the random retard on slashdot talking out of his ass requirements?
15. Re:Clickbaity summary title by unixisc · 2016-01-12 16:53 · Score: 0
  
  The expiry date for Windows 8.1 is different from that of Windows 8 - that one
16. Re:Clickbaity summary title by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 17:56 · Score: 0
  
  Not really - it's a different kernel, including boot loader and everything.
  Pedantic distinction without a difference, from the user's perspective.
  
  that would mean Windows 7 is the same as Windows 10 because "more updates".
  
  No. It wouldn't. Windows 10 is not Windows 7.1.
17. Re:Clickbaity summary title by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 18:23 · Score: 1
  
  Huge difference for me - I write music and the forced update to 8.1 somehow causes everything to freeze up for a second once in a while. I literally have to migrate to Apple now or risk being humiliated if I ever take the stage.
18. Re: Clickbaity summary title by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 18:36 · Score: 0
  
  Windows xp latest version is then a different os than windows xp from 2003... the kernels get updates in between too. Dunno what you were certifying about but the book will need updates for 8.1 too. Not that anybody cares about being 8.1 certified now anyways since if you had to have 8 you for same reasons need to have 10 now to run the latest ms dev kit anyways. Ms dev is the only reason to go beyond 7 anyways.
19. Re:Clickbaity summary title by Calydor · 2016-01-12 19:04 · Score: 1
  
  Did you also say that WinXP's support should have been pulled when Win2K's support was pulled?
  
  --
  -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
20. Re:Clickbaity summary title by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 19:30 · Score: 0
  
  No, the requirements specific retards like you wouldn't understand even if they were plastered directly to your face.
21. Re:Clickbaity summary title by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 20:18 · Score: 0
  
  Huge difference for me - I write music and the forced update to 8.1 somehow causes everything to freeze up for a second once in a while. I literally have to migrate to Apple now or risk being humiliated if I ever take the stage.
  Or, perhaps you could take the time to learn the OS, figure out the problem, (most likely a flaky USB driver), fix it, and go on with your life.
  All my production DAWs have been running Windows since '98. They are all upgraded to '10 now, and purring like kittens. The only trouble I have ever had was with third party USB drivers for audio interfaces, and the wireless network card drivers on one laptop. All easily fixed.
22. Re:Clickbaity summary title by thegarbz · 2016-01-12 21:37 · Score: 2
  
  Not really - it's a different kernel, including boot loader and everything.
  So? When do you really consider something new? Linux Kernel updates come out constantly but that doesn't magically include new support agreements for (e.g.) that specific version of Ubuntu. Likewise with the bootloader.
  To be honest as an end user I don't see much more different between Windows 8 / 8.1 and say Windows XP and XP with service packs applied. What changed under the hood is quite different and up to Microsoft, but since they've all but said Windows 8.1 is the equivalent of service packs I find it hard to except an argument that it's not.
23. Re:Clickbaity summary title by Ash-Fox · 2016-01-12 22:36 · Score: 2
  
  When do you really consider something new?
  As a third party to this conversation... When it's considered an upgrade instead of an update.
  
  Linux Kernel updates come out constantly but that doesn't magically include new support agreements for (e.g.) that specific version of Ubuntu.
  Kernel updates, sure. But kernel upgrades usually involve enabling backport repo or such for a reason.
  
  To be honest as an end user I don't see much more different between Windows 8 / 8.1 and say Windows XP and XP with service packs applied.
  
  As an end user, you should know that Microsoft stopped supporting XP before XP SP1, then XP2 etc. (which Microsoft labelled an upgrade and not an update) so while the lines maybe blurred between service packs and operating system release, it's pretty much the same thing when it comes to support.
  
  --
  Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
24. Re:Clickbaity summary title by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 22:45 · Score: 1
  To ensure that all /. content is verifiable, anyone may question an un-cited claim by inserting a simple question, or by using a more comprehensive question.
  If your work has been questioned
  
  If you can provide a reliable source for the claim, please be bold and respond to the question with enough information to locate the source.
  If someone questions your claim and you disagree, discuss the matter in a civil manner. The most constructive thing to do in most cases is probably to supply the reference requested, even if you feel the question was not justified.
25. Re:Clickbaity summary title by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 22:56 · Score: 0
  
  You cant say Microsoft is no longer supporting Win8 in the title and later in the article clarify that they are supporting Win8.1, they are the same fucking thing, one just has more updates to it.
  Microsoft ACTUALLY supported their software??? The next thing they'll tell us is that live unicorns ACTUALLY exist...
26. Re:Clickbaity summary title by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 23:54 · Score: 0
  
  Or he could switch to something that works and not worry about it happening again, and spend the time doing something he enjoys instead?
27. Re:Clickbaity summary title by cbhacking · 2016-01-12 23:56 · Score: 1
  
  Interestingly enough, Win8 Enterprise doesn't actually get the automatic update to Win8.1. You can do an in-place upgrade using install media, but you can't get it from Windows Update, or from the Store, or anything like that. Nor does it nag you to upgrade.
  
  --
  There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
28. Re:Clickbaity summary title by tepples · 2016-01-13 01:47 · Score: 1
  
  they've all but said Windows 8.1 is the equivalent of service packs
  "Service packs" usually don't end support for particular CPUs. Windows 8.1 requires CPU instructions that Windows 8 did not require. Replacing a CPU in a laptop just to run Windows 8.1 is usually impractical.
29. Re: Clickbaity summary title by Billly+Gates · 2016-01-13 03:23 · Score: 1
  
  No but he probably means PCI requirements which are basically handling credit cards which any business does today requires up to date security patches.
  I don't want my identity stolen because the app uses IE 8 and in 2016 still not fucking W3C compliant! Guess that's what happens when you outsource it cheap
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
30. Re:Clickbaity summary title by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-13 03:24 · Score: 0
  
  Replacing a CPU in a laptop just to run Windows 8.1 is usually impractical.
  Why? I've done exactly that in most of the laptops I have ever owned. It's easy.
31. Re:Clickbaity summary title by luis_a_espinal · 2016-01-13 03:24 · Score: 1
  
  The expiry date for Windows 8.1 is different from that of Windows 8 - that one
  Now, now, don't quote facts. That's not how we idiots play in slashdot.
32. Re:Clickbaity summary title by thegarbz · 2016-01-13 04:10 · Score: 1
  
  CPU instructions are frequently optional and don't require it either. This isn't the first time Microsoft has rolled out very CPU specific features in service packs, but this is a case where the instruction must not be optional i.e. a different compilation is required for support such as the 32bit version. To be fair users aren't let without recourse (install an alternate version of windows 8.1) and users affected are running some quite old hardware.
  But then drawing an arbitrary line like will install / won't install isn't quite fair either. Windows XP ran just fine on it's minimum hardware specs. I challenge you to even boot Windows XP SP3 without causing massive amounts of memory paging and tearing out your hair in frustration on the same hardware.
33. Re:Clickbaity summary title by thegarbz · 2016-01-13 04:14 · Score: 1
  
  When it's considered an upgrade instead of an update.
  When is that? Microsoft themselves have said it was an update, but then also they've gone out of their way to avoid calling it a service pack. That would break the convention.
  
  As an end user, you should know that Microsoft stopped supporting XP before XP SP1, then XP2 etc.
  Even with your example I don't see a difference. Windows 8 went out of support before Windows 8.1. I'm not entirely sure what your point was here.
34. Re:Clickbaity summary title by tepples · 2016-01-13 04:22 · Score: 1
  
  I thought laptop CPUs were likely to be soldered down rather than socketed. This article states that some still are this way, especially a MacBook, an Ultrabook, or a netbook. And even on those laptops with a socketed CPU, this forum post states that finding new CPUs compatible with the motherboard or new motherboards compatible with the form factor is difficult. What am I thinking of?
35. Re:Clickbaity summary title by tepples · 2016-01-13 04:27 · Score: 1
  
  I challenge you to even boot Windows XP SP3 without causing massive amounts of memory paging and tearing out your hair in frustration on the same hardware.
  Windows XP Service Pack 3 potentially required a RAM upgrade. Windows 8.1 potentially required a CPU upgrade. On laptops, RAM upgrades are generally more practical than CPU upgrades.
36. Re:Clickbaity summary title by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-13 06:23 · Score: 0
  
  Hitler wrote a book too, doesn't make it factual.
  clearly microsoft's own lifecycle page states that windows 8.1 is part of Windows 8. they title is misleading. why not mention windows 7 support ceased as well. the title is clearly trying to put windows 8 in bad light.
37. Re:Clickbaity summary title by luis_a_espinal · 2016-01-13 06:48 · Score: 1
  
  Not really - it's a different kernel, including boot loader and everything.
  Pedantic distinction without a difference, from the user's perspective.
  
  Pedantic, ill-informed and impractical argument, from a subjective perspective.
38. Re:Clickbaity summary title by viperidaenz · 2016-01-13 07:53 · Score: 1
  
  I hate to break this to you, but marketing determines the difference between an update to an existing product and an entirely new product.
39. Re:Clickbaity summary title by thegarbz · 2016-01-13 09:12 · Score: 1
  
  So the difference between an update and an upgrade is defined by how difficult it is to get to run smoothly on your specific computer?
  My point here is that from the very start of this thread the entire discussion has been quite arbitrary with everyone adding their own pet definition of what it should be.
40. Re:Clickbaity summary title by tepples · 2016-01-13 09:39 · Score: 1
  
  So the difference between an update and an upgrade is defined by how difficult it is to get to run smoothly on your specific computer?
  To me, update means "download the latest list of packages", and upgrade means "download packages newer than the installed packages and install them". But because I was trying to answer outside the context of Debian APT, I'll try to use terms independent of a particular operating system's terminology: "minor upgrade" and "major upgrade".
  You propose to define a major upgrade in part through breaking compatibility with a piece of hardware. I'm inclined to agree. To avoid "you are an edge case not worth serving" comebacks, one might replace "your specific computer" with "the supermajority of computers on which the original product was intended to run". Another definition is whether the proprietary software's publisher charges for the upgrade. Microsoft charged for the upgrade from Windows XP to Windows Vista, from Windows Vista to Windows 7, from Windows 7 to Windows 8, but not for the upgrade from Windows 8 to 8.1, and until the end of July not for the upgrade from Windows 7 to 10 or 8.1 to 10.
  But these are special cases of the more general metric of cost of applying an upgrade. An upgrade correcting a security vulnerability in one service costs far less to apply than an upgrade that requires new hardware, requires a payment to renew the proprietary software license, requires follow-on upgrades of proprietary applications installed on a machine, requires the labor of a clean install, etc.
41. Re:Clickbaity summary title by terjeber · 2016-01-13 22:45 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, 'cause nobody ever has problems with OS updates, right. Particularly not the ones with specialized hardware. Just ask the Apple guys. The music dudes who use Apple never have problems at all. You know, if you define "never" as "with almost every single update of OSX".
42. Re:Clickbaity summary title by terjeber · 2016-01-13 23:34 · Score: 1
  
  'cause who would ever need more than 3.5G of memory, right? Is that you again Mr. Gates?
43. Re:Clickbaity summary title by thegarbz · 2016-01-14 00:52 · Score: 1
  
  the supermajority of computers on which the original product was intended to run
  That's a good one but it only worked in the old days, not so much now. Rolling releases (I'm running Windows 10 but is it the first one or the second one, there are already 2) will break that definition.
  
  Another definition is whether the proprietary software's publisher charges for the upgrade
  That's also a good one, I think I like this one better because it ties it into something very tangibly affecting the user. But in the future of Windows as a service this may also not work. We have some reprieve since the freebies for Windows 7 upgrade are time limited, but if that goes away you're stuck.
44. Re:Clickbaity summary title by swalve · 2016-01-14 13:18 · Score: 1
  
  Who legislates how long manufacturers must support their old products?
45. Re:Clickbaity summary title by toddestan · 2016-01-15 14:39 · Score: 1
  
  Windows 8.1 is kind of a weird beast. In some ways, it's treated like a service pack for Windows 8, and in other ways, it's treated like a different OS than Windows 8.
46. Re:Clickbaity summary title by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-15 17:27 · Score: 0
  
  Butthurt much?
Thanks, MS! by DogDude · 2016-01-12 12:12 · Score: 5, Interesting

I mean it literally: Thanks, MS, for having the longest (free) support time for OS's of any commercial vendor today.

--
I don't respond to AC's.
1. Re: Thanks, MS! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 12:49 · Score: 1
  
  You're welcome!!
  -Microsoft Spy Division
2. Re:Thanks, MS! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 13:05 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah, that's nice of them, I suppose.
  Of course, I cannot update Windows 7 (it tries for an entire day then quits saying "failed; reverting back to prior state"). And it fails at that, too... I have to restore to factory configuration!
  It came to a point I decided to go without Window updates, just to be able to use the minimum I need (that is checking docx files saved by Libreoffice in Office).
  Now that "excellent" thing somehow recovered and started to update on first boot by the morning. I of course powered down (can't bear that thing and I really needed to use the PC -- with Linux, of course).
  As they used to say about Linux, "Windows is free if your time is worth nothing".
  I'll probably wipe the disk and get rid of Windows (the hardware is somewhat powerful) and buy some barebones machine to have the elementary uses I need to make my docs look well at work -- although I expect problems, because the in-house systems at work are mostly compatible only with W7.
3. Re:Thanks, MS! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 13:16 · Score: 0
  
  I think the little guys deserve more credit for keeping support going. Just take a look at something like FreeBSD or Slackware, which are both still getting updates after almost 23 years and don't have multi billion dollar corporations behind them.
4. Re:Thanks, MS! by Darinbob · 2016-01-12 13:18 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  But they are spending developer time shipping out updates to remind you to upgrade to the latest products.
5. Re:Thanks, MS! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 14:45 · Score: 0
  
  FreeBSD's support lifetime for its versions isnt nearly as long.
6. Re:Thanks, MS! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 17:18 · Score: 0
  
  I mean it literally: Thanks, MS, for having the longest (free) support time for OS's of any commercial vendor today.
  Linux doesn't need quite as long a support time, as it can be easier to upgrade. For instance, this fairly new motherboard decided it would no longer converse with my old SSD though I did get it to boot one more time to pull off my home folder. I installed a new version of Linux Mint that was on a flash drive and had everything restored and updated in what an hour or so. Sure, it might not have everything on it, but as soon as you miss something apt-get whatever or apt-cache search to find it and it will generally:
  1) Just work
  2) Not be malware/spyware/virus ridden
  3) cost nothing.
  4) Not require linking my machine in some way with some big corporation.
  The last is important. You can't easily update tablets or phones without (4). The biggest thing I'd like to see in linux is, sadly, visual studio, particularly if they could get all the .NET WPF stuff working. I've spent a long time working with that tool, and actually think they do a pretty good job with such things. I don't see it ever going to happen, since microsoft does not want to help linux. No doubt I could use Eclipse or something else and get used if I really needed to, but it still seems unwise to push for it at work. The average user of software consumes it on windows. Heck, it is apparently possible to make CMake projects that make everything cross platform, though again, unless you used cross platform toolkits that is difficult.
7. Re:Thanks, MS! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 19:24 · Score: 0
  
  But they do spend time to create new spyware to collect information from you and your devices. All this for improving your experience, of course.
8. Re:Thanks, MS! by kammermusik · 2016-01-12 21:26 · Score: 2
  
  Ever thought about running W7 in a Virtual Box on a Linux host (https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads)? I would consider that if I were you, especially if your "hardware is somewhat powerful" (works great for me, though my hardware is not that powerful). Not sure it would solve your update problems, though.
9. Re:Thanks, MS! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 23:34 · Score: 0
  
  The problem with expressions which are not quantified is the relative value they have. In an island, everyone got 2 arrows, but Tom has got 3... he's rich!
  My other PCs all have less than 2GB RAM, that one has more.
  I thought about VBox (and some of my friends use it), but I don't pirate (*) and I'd need to buy a Windows license which is way expensive and, frankly, I'd rather donate the money than spend on a product of obvious dubious quality. And, exactly as you mention, maybe the update nagging would still happen.
  (*) Yeah, when I say I don't pirate people give me weird looks. Even the terminology is idiotic... it's like someone entering a house and taking a photo of an art picture -- and the owner getting pissed off about it, because he wanted to charge tickets for people to see the "art".
10. Re:Thanks, MS! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-13 00:57 · Score: 0
  
  You don't have to pirate -- simply rebuild with linux primary, and running your windows in a vbox with your windows key -- MS will validate that, as that's what i've done. Wiped win 8.1 and reformatted for Ubuntu primary, with Win8.1 in a virtualbox. Works great. no problems.
  Plus bonus -- MS says virtualbox video drivers are not compatible with windows 10, so it can't upgrade (unless I deliberately seek to do it, by removing/changing video drivers etc).
11. Re:Thanks, MS! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-13 01:27 · Score: 0
  
  I'm not sure that I understand that, but you gave me hope... I will try. Thanks in advance, also for bothering to enlighten me.
  > MS says virtualbox video drivers are not compatible with windows 10, so it can't upgrade
  This is treasure, my friend, simply treasure!
12. Re:Thanks, MS! by jmac_the_man · 2016-01-13 02:21 · Score: 1
  
  I love Slackware, but this isn't true. Old versions of Slackware ARE only supported for a few years. Nobody is supporting the 23 year old versions of Slackware.
13. Re:Thanks, MS! by LichtSpektren · 2016-01-13 02:23 · Score: 1
  
  I mean it literally: Thanks, MS, for having the longest (free) support time for OS's of any commercial vendor today.
  I assume this is sarcastic, since this news story is about how Windows Vista (neither free as in beer nor speech) just got fucked before its promised EOL date. But in case you're being serious, I point out that RHEL and CentOS have about the same support life as Windows does. And those are *actually* free.
14. Re:Thanks, MS! by Wdomburg · 2016-01-13 04:36 · Score: 1
  
  Eh? Extended support is ending for Vista on April 11, 2017. The date hasn't changed since at least 2012.
15. Re:Thanks, MS! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-13 14:28 · Score: 0
  
  "MS says virtualbox video drivers are not compatible with windows 10, so it can't upgrade"
  Initially I tried to upgrade but when I realized the benefit of keeping 8.1, I didn't work to find a way (others have) to upgrade. But, yes, as you realized, that means MS can't get sneaky and start an update.
  I'm running Ubuntu 14.04 LTS as the primary partition. I also set up a spare 40GByte Win partition, for reasons I forget. I think just in case the machine wouldn't boot, or some such. But it boots fine, straight into Ubuntu.
  Then if I need windows, I just start up a virtualbox session with win8.1, which has been validated by Microsoft. Which allows me to copy and paste between the two systems. Very handy.
  Plus I also keep an old, working winxp vm, plus I also run an Ubuntu server in a vm, which I use for local copies of online sites (as backup). With 8 GBytes, can run two, but not all three at once. Win8.1 is pretty thirsty on Ram.
  The huge benefit in keeping Win8.1 in a VM, is that you can easily copy and paste the vm folder, as a full backup to a backup disk. Then, if for any reason, problems, just copy back, and away you go.
  I did this recently with the Ubuntu server vm -- I upgraded to the latest linux kernel (4.4) but couldn't get it to work properly, so I just copied back in the server folder, and rebooted the vm.
16. Re:Thanks, MS! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-13 14:37 · Score: 0
  
  Forgot to mention -- when purchased the laptop came with Win8.1 and all four partitions variously used by MS.
  I deleted (with gparted) all partitions except for (as I recall) the boot sector (/dev/sda1), then reformatted the whole disk (~450GB) as ext4 (for Ubuntu), linux swap and 40 GByte for spare win partition.
17. Re:Thanks, MS! by dave420 · 2016-01-15 04:06 · Score: 1
  
  You can download Virtual Machine images of Windows 7, 8, 8.1 and 10 from http://modern.ie./ I use them for their intended purposes (testing websites in different flavours of Windows & IE), but they work just as well for anything else.
18. Re:Thanks, MS! by toddestan · 2016-01-15 14:48 · Score: 1
  
  Windows Vista is (and has been stuck) with Internet Explorer 9 for some time now, as it stopped getting new versions of Internet Explorer once it dropped out of mainstream support. Of course, this means that the headline is also wrong, as Internet Explorer 9 is still supported for Vista users. This is true for other versions of IE 8-10 that are on supported OS's that cannot use a newer version.
19. Re:Thanks, MS! by Wdomburg · 2016-01-19 04:34 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly. Everything is as promised in the lifecycle that Microsoft published years ago, so I have no idea what LichtSpektren was talking about when he said that Vista got f@#!ed before the promised EOL.
  It was never getting a newer version of IE, but the current version will be supported through its extended support period.
20. Re:Thanks, MS! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-21 00:38 · Score: 0
  
  Microsoft CHARGES MONEY for every single "version" of Windows. Slackware doesn't, so feel free to ask for a refund, you entitled little shit.
Oh Happy Days by NaughtyNimitz · 2016-01-12 12:12 · Score: 3, Informative

Finally we can start building proper websites without IE8 hacks.
1. Re:Oh Happy Days by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 12:43 · Score: 0
  
  Amen brother. I have been building websites for 15+ years and it is SOO frustrating to have to build a site that just works and then cludge in a bunch of hacks to make it work with IE.
2. Re:Oh Happy Days by unixisc · 2016-01-12 16:57 · Score: 1
  
  In fact, given that Microsoft has moved to Edge, and that others can use Chrome or Firefox/PaleMoon, isn't it safe to remove support for IE altogether (meaning even 11), and just test your web pages on Chrome, Firefox/PaleMoon, Safari and Opera?
3. Re:Oh Happy Days by Kellamity · 2016-01-12 19:22 · Score: 1
  
  This is perfect timing! I got an issue forwarded from help desk today about a user unable to do pretty much anything in our portal. After investigating, turns out the problem is they are using IE8 and we don't advertise any 'minimum' requirements. I'm going to campaign tomorrow that we officially do not support this browser, and this will be good evidence to support my claim. Otherwise they'll have to pay for an extra week of dev work while I go through everything that isn't working the way it should and figure out a way to re-write it... (mostly CSS issues, but some terrible hidden/disabled field validation problems in there as well, and probably some other shit I haven't found yet...)
4. Re:Oh Happy Days by Buchenskjoll · 2016-01-13 00:00 · Score: 1
  
  According to statcounter IE11 has more than 10% of the market. That's twice Safari's share. But IE11 is more standards compliant, so maybe it's not as necessary as it was.
  
  --
  -- Make America hate again!
5. Re:Oh Happy Days by cbhacking · 2016-01-13 00:02 · Score: 1
  
  IE11 is stull supported, for legacy sites that need things which Edge doesn't provide (like ActiveX, or any of the other ~95% of IE's features that Edge doesn't have). It's mostly used by businesses, but anybody can use it, even on Win10.
  Of course, lots of people still aren't on Win10. You can't install Edge on Win7, or Win8.x. So no, IE11 is definitely not going away yet.
  I really wish they would just let IE use Edge's rendering engine. They could even call it... Edge mode! Fall back to Trident for legacy pages, but use EdgeHTML on everything else; sites that are coded to cutting-edge standards would work, legacy sites (including business-internal ones) would work, and nobody would use that abomination of an overgrown phone browser that Microsoft tried to make the default on Win10 PCs.
  
  --
  There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
6. Re:Oh Happy Days by squiggleslash · 2016-01-13 00:42 · Score: 1
  
  Edge isn't available for anything but Windows 10, and I doubt Microsoft wants significant numbers of its users having to rely on third parties for a browser.
  IE11 wasn't actually all that bad in Windows 8.1 - it made for a very nice mobile browser on tablets. Edge, by comparison (in that one use case, I'm not talking about in general) sucks dreadfully and for some reason they removed IE11's touch friendly UI in Windows 10.
  
  --
  You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
7. Re:Oh Happy Days by Merk42 · 2016-01-13 02:11 · Score: 1
  
  It all comes down to the maketshare, not of the world, but of your userbase.
8. Re: Oh Happy Days by Billly+Gates · 2016-01-13 03:28 · Score: 1
  
  IE 8 doesn't require hacks compared to IE 6. Now that one was a nightmare
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
9. Re:Oh Happy Days by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-13 08:05 · Score: 0
  
  I guess. If you don't care about giving Win XP users the shaft.
10. Re:Oh Happy Days by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-13 17:29 · Score: 0
  
  I don't. They can use Firefox or Chrome though. Probably even Opera.
11. Re:Oh Happy Days by Kellamity · 2016-01-13 17:33 · Score: 1
  
  Workplaces use the web pages I work on. Most are VERY behind with the upgrading and don't allow users to install other browsers. We just upgraded from 8 to 11 at my workplace about 18 months ago. It was a big deal and took about 6 months of planning. Luckily as a developer I can install wherever I want on my own machine! (Though am not allowed on the main network outside of a remote connection....)
  Win 10 and Edge at work? Hmmm.... maybe by 2020?
12. Re:Oh Happy Days by terjeber · 2016-01-13 22:47 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, now we only have to struggle with Safari hacks. Safari is now the new IE6/7/8. Sigh.
13. Re:Oh Happy Days by toddestan · 2016-01-15 14:52 · Score: 1
  
  I've recently hit a few webpages that give me the "your browser is not supported" using a fully updated IE11 on Windows 7*. So it seems that there's a few sites out there that feel it's "safe" to ignore Internet Explorer users already.
  *this is a work computer, so it's not like I can use something else.
Summary not the full story, surprise, surprise. by dstyle5 · 2016-01-12 12:19 · Score: 4, Informative

The actual article is though, which is a nice change from a lot of recent articles on this subject:

"Microsoft announced the old IE version cutoff date back in August 2014. At the time, the company said it would only support the following browser-operating system combinations: IE9 on Windows Vista SP2 and Windows Server 2008 SP2; IE10 on Windows Server 2012; and IE11 on Windows 7 SP1, Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1, Windows 8.1, and Windows Server 2012 R2. Since then, Windows 10 and Microsoft Edge have, of course, been released, so they’re supported as well."
good news! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 12:29 · Score: 0

I am sure there will be a lot of whining and complaining about how dare they do this. All I can say it is about time, MS's relentless obsession with long term support and compatibility while nice and convenient has always had the knockon effect of meaning so much shit never gets updated by people and companies. Google, Apple etc abandon versions years sooner than MS and it leads to far easier support and more consistent platforms.
Couldn't they end support for Windows 10, too? by jfdavis668 · 2016-01-12 12:34 · Score: 4, Insightful

Then it would finally be the year of the Linux desktop.
1. Re: Couldn't they end support for Windows 10, too? by Bing+Tsher+E · 2016-01-12 12:48 · Score: 1
  
  I'd say "that's what it would take" buy MacOS is still ahead of any of the OSes that use the Linux kernel (though not Android, but that's not a desktop OS).
2. Re: Couldn't they end support for Windows 10, too? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 13:38 · Score: 0
  
  "MacOS" (I assume you mean OS X) is not ahead of Android but is ahead of other Linuxes? Sounds like some fanboy bullshit, chin chin.
3. Re:Couldn't they end support for Windows 10, too? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 15:03 · Score: 0
  
  What is this "Linux year" everybody talks about?
  The year when desktop Linux will finally be good enough for the vast majority.
  Fact is it has never been easier to install desktop Linux, the past decade has brought us almost one-click DVD/USB installers as well the ability to try it in a VM or even LiveCD/USB to try it on your hardware. In spite of this its marketshare is still in the very low single digit percentage. Software freedom was supposed to mean that you would have a far superior and innovative crowd-sourced OS but instead we have a system relatively nobody wants. The Linux kernel however has been a runaway success in embedded, mobile and server environments, displacing the dominant Microsoft, Palm and Blackberry (RIM) in the smartphone market but the desktop experience is still a mess.
4. Re: Couldn't they end support for Windows 10, too? by Fwipp · 2016-01-12 16:32 · Score: 1
  
  Install base.
5. Re:Couldn't they end support for Windows 10, too? by unixisc · 2016-01-12 17:02 · Score: 1
  
  I'd say that Linux had an even better chance w/ Windows 8. Although w/ the spying issues around 10, I'm not sure that that 'window' has closed. I haven't seen too many people voluntarily upgrade to 10 - even from 8. And I'm talking about non technical people, who know nothing about all the Telemetry or spying
6. Re:Couldn't they end support for Windows 10, too? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 20:35 · Score: 0
  
  And I'd say you're both wrong. Vista had a great competitor called XP. Windows 8 had a great competitor called Windows 7.
  Actually, so does Windows 10, for now.
  We still need to wait and see if Microsoft will have Windows 9 or 11 (or whatever they will call the next odd-numbered release) ready by the time that Windows 7 support ends.
7. Re:Couldn't they end support for Windows 10, too? by mridoni · 2016-01-12 21:11 · Score: 1
  
  I never had issues INSTALLING Linux
  Neither did I, ever.
  It was after the actual install, when I wanted to use the wireless card, or the sound card, or the second video card on my notebook, or wanted hibernate to work, that I incurred some serious waste of time and ended up using Linux in a VM where it works admirably. Linux is my first and only choices for servers, but on the desktop side it's still lacking, and while this could be justified in 2009, the feeling in 2015 is that that ship has since long sailed.
8. Re:Couldn't they end support for Windows 10, too? by tijgertje · 2016-01-12 21:21 · Score: 1
  
  I have different Linux machines (desktops, servers and laptops) and NONE have any problems accessing the network/internet for years. 8 a 10 years ago yes, at that time I had to compile the wifi-drivers myself but now? click, click, done. Only problem I have is getting the games to function well trough wine........
9. Re:Couldn't they end support for Windows 10, too? by tijgertje · 2016-01-12 21:36 · Score: 1
  
  On what type of hardware are you trying to install Linux? It is true that Linux does not support all hardware, but it supports more then Windows out of the box (without driver CD's). Second video card. Sound like Nvidia? => http://bumblebee-project.org/ Blame Nvidia for this that it took them ages to add support for it in their drivers! I personally never use hibernate (takes longer then cold boot), but standby works without any problems on my pc's and laptop. Still it is dependent on the hardware. If you try to install Linux on a Windows-machine most of the time it will work, but not always.
10. Re:Couldn't they end support for Windows 10, too? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 23:51 · Score: 0
  
  Nope. People would rather use an outdated, unsupported version of Windows than use Linux. That's the problem I have with Linux advocates. They just don't see Linux how the rest of us see it.
11. Re:Couldn't they end support for Windows 10, too? by squiggleslash · 2016-01-13 01:18 · Score: 2
  
  I've not had these kinds of problems for over ten years now, at least with Ubuntu (and apparently Mint, though I've tried that once, but Mint seems to be using Ubuntu for the core install anyway.)
  Yes, there are distros out there that do have these problems, and still have them (Fedora booting into a blank screen the other day because it didn't like my Nvidia card was a disappointment) but we're never going to be in a situation where every version of every installs fine by default. Try a generic, non-manufacturer-supplied, Windows DVD at some point on a random laptop that doesn't have Windows already installed - there's a reason most Wifi cards come with a little CD containing drivers.
  At least as far as Ubuntu and Mint goes right now, I think they exceed Windows right now in terms of "OS that installs with everything working". People only perceive Windows as being better because they rarely actually install it, and even if they do, they usually do so with their PC manufacturer's installer, not with a disk shipped from Redmond.
  
  --
  You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
12. Re:Couldn't they end support for Windows 10, too? by tepples · 2016-01-13 02:38 · Score: 1
  
  there's a reason most Wifi cards come with a little CD containing drivers.
  At least WLAN cards come with working drivers for Windows, even if they are on a disc. A lot of WLAN cards have no easily obtainable drivers for GNU/Linux at all. And a lot of WLAN cards with free PC-side drivers, such as several by Intel and Broadcom, still require a binary firmware for the radio DSP that distributions aren't allowed to include.
13. Re:Couldn't they end support for Windows 10, too? by tepples · 2016-01-13 02:42 · Score: 1
  
  [GNU/Linux] supports more [hardware] then Windows out of the box (without driver CD's).
  And Windows supports more hardware with driver CDs. With Windows, you use the Windows driver on the driver CD. With GNU/Linux, there is usually no Linux driver on the driver CD.
  
  I personally never use hibernate (takes longer then cold boot)
  Does "takes longer" include the time to locate and reopen the documents that were closed when you shut down your computer? And if you had web pages open in tabs in a web browser for later offline reading while you ride the bus, does this include waiting to arrive at your destination so that you can connect to Wi-Fi and reload the pages?
14. Re:Couldn't they end support for Windows 10, too? by tijgertje · 2016-01-13 03:03 · Score: 1
  
  No, but when I want to use the laptop on the way I just put it on standby.
15. Re:Couldn't they end support for Windows 10, too? by tijgertje · 2016-01-13 03:04 · Score: 1
  
  Then complain to the hardware makers that they should include Linux-drivers also on that disk? Not like the makers behind Linux can help it if the hardware makers don't make drivers and don't give specs.
16. Re:Couldn't they end support for Windows 10, too? by Parker+Lewis · 2016-01-13 06:58 · Score: 1
  
  And the next Ubuntu will the one with Unity 8 and Mir. Repeat the pray every release.
17. Re:Couldn't they end support for Windows 10, too? by terjeber · 2016-01-13 22:54 · Score: 1
  
  I am certain that we'll see airborne pigs long before we'll see Linux on the desktop. In fact, if you take all the worst parts of Windows 10, Windows 8.1 and Windows 8 and combine them into the worst UX ever created for Windows, it still beats every single Linux distribution for usability save Android. Linux on the desktop will not even happen after we've vacated earth due to the Sun turning into a Red Giant. Neither will Windows be either, but...
  Say after me: "Linux on the desktop is never going to happen. Ever". Now breathe.
  But then again, I am certain you spoke in jest and the people who modded you "Insightful" simply do not have sarcasm detectors :-)
18. Re:Couldn't they end support for Windows 10, too? by terjeber · 2016-01-13 23:01 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not sure that that 'window' has closed.
  As Zarquon arrives to greet his followers for the second coming, some rabid descendant of a /.er will still be talking about the expected coming of the Year of Linux on the Desktop. In fact, we should rename the entire "Year of Linux on the Desktop" to "The Year following the Second Coming of Zarquon".
19. Re:Couldn't they end support for Windows 10, too? by terjeber · 2016-01-13 23:05 · Score: 1
  
  (without driver CD's).
  If you can get online, no need for any CDs at all. This is no different than Linux. CDs? Really?
20. Re:Couldn't they end support for Windows 10, too? by terjeber · 2016-01-13 23:23 · Score: 1
  
  People only perceive Windows as being better because they rarely actually install it
  I totally disagree. I was on a team that developed some of the first commercial Java software back in the late 1990s. In fact, Sun used our logo (together with many others) on the New York Times ads they used to promote Java back then. Our system was entirely server-stuff, not much need for client-side code (there was a small amount). Our Testing/CI system (built in-house) ran on Linux, and we deployed almost exclusively on Sun. All of our developers ran Windows though.
  So, develop using Java, mostly for Sun and HP, CI and testing entirely on Linux. Why not developers? Because Linux was then, is today, and will continue to be for a long time still, extremely user-un-friendly on the desktop. You talk about making installation work well. That's important, but for a UI that still can't get CUT-COPY-PASTE done well, perhaps the focus should be on UX and hope that over time vendors will pre-install.
  UX on Linux is bad. Really, really, really bad. It shows no signs of improvement. So, my descendants are going to play with their pet flying pigs LONG before Linux makes any in-roads on the desktop. To Linux/UX developers, here are some advice: Drop X. Completely. It's a monstrosity. It's an abomination. It was way cool in 1988 and 1989 because I could have several X-Terms open at the same time. Usability never really got beyond that though. So, drop it. Send it to the bottomless pit of rubbish stuff created by nerds. When X is gone, sit down and develop a UX from ground up. Look to Apple to see what they have done, look at some of the NExT stuff, BeOS etc. Heck, there are even cool things in Windows (the ever more seamless moving from desktop to tablet being a good idea for example) to take into consideration. Create some alliance with Linus, making sure there is ONE, and ONLY ONE, UX allowed on Linux. Have Linus shut down any attempt at allowing choice and options. In UX, choice and options are bad ideas.
  That would be a start. It would be a necessary but not sufficient set of actions to perhaps ever create a usable UX for Linux. Sadly, it's never going to happen. Linus doesn't give a shit about UX, and he (perhaps rightfully) thinks it's going to become irrelevant. We'll see.
21. Re:Couldn't they end support for Windows 10, too? by Ginger+Unicorn · 2016-01-14 00:04 · Score: 1
  
  "Good enough" means it drives 90% of consumer hardware, runs a major browser and an office suite. Linux has been good enough ever since it got wireless drivers/support sorted out. But on 99.99% of all the computers out there, Windows or MacOS are already there when you buy them, and they're good enough too. Desktop linux solves a problem that almost no one really has.
  
  --
  (1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
Very dumb naming for windows 8 by Joe_Dragon · 2016-01-12 12:50 · Score: 2

They needed to call the updates 8.1 8.11 8.12 8.2
1. Re:Very dumb naming for windows 8 by UnknownSoldier · 2016-01-12 14:50 · Score: 1
  
  That would make too much sense, so sadly, MS will never do that.
2. Re:Very dumb naming for windows 8 by darkain · 2016-01-12 15:11 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  8.11 for Workgroups?
3. Re:Very dumb naming for windows 8 by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 18:23 · Score: 0
  
  nice
4. Re:Very dumb naming for windows 8 by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 20:24 · Score: 0
  
  They needed to call the updates 8.1 8.11 8.12 8.2
  Why? Windows 8 was a completely different OS from Windows 7. Windows 10 is more than just an "upgrade" from 8 or 8.1.
  And besides, Microsoft can use whatever version/naming system they like. It's their product. Personally, I think they should have called 10 "Windows ONE", after all, it is the best OS currently available for PC's.
Way confusing by freeze128 · 2016-01-12 12:59 · Score: 0

The summary is saying that users will see a new tab that says "Support for Internet Explorer has ended. Upgrade to Internet Explorer."

WTF?

Do they mean "Upgrade to Edge"?
1. Re:Way confusing by tepples · 2016-01-13 02:49 · Score: 1
  It'd probably take one of these forms:
  Support for IE 7 on Windows Vista has ended. Upgrade to IE 9.
  Support for IE 8 on Windows Vista has ended. Upgrade to IE 9.
  Support for IE 8 on Windows 7 has ended. Upgrade to IE 11.
  Support for IE 9 on Windows 7 has ended. Upgrade to IE 11.
  Support for IE 10 on Windows 7 has ended. Upgrade to IE 11.
My PC should keep working w/o gratuitous UI change by iamacat · 2016-01-12 13:35 · Score: 0, Troll

When I buy a car, I don't expect that I wake up one day and the steering wheel moved to the back sit. Yet that's what Microsoft expects me to do to simply keep using my computer and running same apps and games as I always have.
And if you say "it's for security", wrong again. My car went through multiple recalls which are more complex than just fixing a buffer overflow, yet none of them caused it to turn into a motocycle (Windows 8) or lose a cigarette lighter (media center). What's more, Microsoft is the only one that is THAT bad. OSX, iOS and Android stay at least recognizable though updates. And with Linux I can run twm for windows manager if I want and still not get p0wned.
WRONG! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 13:53 · Score: 0

Windows Server 2008 R2
Is windows 7. It happily, and I mean as happy as a little girl, takes 11.
Liebes meine monkee!
Und now wir tanzen!
time to upgrade by phantomfive · 2016-01-12 13:58 · Score: 1

Guess it's time to upgrade to 9. What?

--
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Re:My PC should keep working w/o gratuitous UI cha by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 14:25 · Score: 1

Perhaps you would be more amused if they turned Windows into a web os with AJAX, that changes every day like Facebook or Amazon..
Re:My PC should keep working w/o gratuitous UI cha by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 14:27 · Score: 1, Informative

Unfortunately rearranging the furniture is pretty much all MS have left to milk money out of windows. Updates stopped providing serious improvements to useability over a decade ago, most of the show-stopping problems have been sorted, so all they can do is keep on with the meaningless "New! Shiny! Steering wheel relocated!" and hope no-one notices.
Re:My PC should keep working w/o gratuitous UI cha by FlyHelicopters · 2016-01-12 14:36 · Score: 1

When I buy a car, I don't expect that I wake up one day and the steering wheel moved to the back sit. Yet that's what Microsoft expects me to do to simply keep using my computer and running same apps and games as I always have.
And if you say "it's for security", wrong again.
Nope, not wrong. Your computer will work just fine without updates...
You don't have to update anything, you can run RTM Windows 8 to your hearts content.
Just don't complain if you get infected/botted or other stuff on the web no longer works.
Re:My PC should keep working w/o gratuitous UI cha by exomondo · 2016-01-12 15:10 · Score: 2

So run an alternative shell/customization environment like Litestep, Cairo, RainMeter, etc... You already said you do it to solve the problem on Linux so why not do the same thing on Windows?
split update? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 16:35 · Score: 0

I see the update lists 2 different kb numbers. can we decline 3124275 in favour of just 3135236, and also decline 3123303?
How about an IE11 for Vista, 2008, and 2012? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 16:54 · Score: 0

So why doesn't the "new Microsoft" back-port IE11 to Vista, Server 2008, and Server 2012? These are OSes that will continue to be supported for years (e.g. Server 2008 is on extended support until 1/2020), so why not make a port and get everyone on IE11? Can't be that tough as Server 2008 is running an NT 6.x kernel...
Why do I bring this up??? Server 2008 is still used in enterprises as it's the last IA-32 server OS. Many 3rd party server applications that were designed for NT 5.x kernels can be shoe-horned to run on NT 6.0 IA-32, but not on NT 6.x AMD64... Given it's almost the same NT kernel as the ones that run IE11, and given Firefox & Chrome can run on NT 6.0, it should be trivial for Microsoft to port IE11 to NT 6.0...
Can we end support for Microsoft instead? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 18:00 · Score: 0

How about we all stop supporting Microsoft instead? Everybody find a distro of Linux you like and migrate over, never be spied on by Microsoft again. Most of the Internet runs off Linux anyway, what's the big deal?
1. Re:Can we end support for Microsoft instead? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 20:32 · Score: 0
  
  How about we all stop supporting Microsoft instead? Everybody find a distro of Linux you like and migrate over, never be spied on by Microsoft again. Most of the Internet runs off Linux anyway, what's the big deal?
  Well, first off, Linux will not run any of the serious software I need to do my job, and it probably never will.
  Second, the Linux "desktop" still looks "amateurish" to me. Actually, it reminds me of Windows 95. Might not make a difference as far as getting my work done, but when you spend a lot of time staring at a computer screen for a living, the "look and feel" is important.
2. Re:Can we end support for Microsoft instead? by tijgertje · 2016-01-12 21:25 · Score: 1
  
  Which desktops are you looking at? You can have a simple desktop in Linux, a fancy bling bling (way better the aero) and everything in between. You can choose the want you want, you know
3. Re:Can we end support for Microsoft instead? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 22:11 · Score: 0
  
  Quality trolling. What's the "serious" software? If if you're a programmer, it really ain't that serious. I feel exactly the same way as you - Windows feels clunky, amateurish and the end result of a massive "not invented here" campaign.
SO WHAT by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 19:43 · Score: 0

It's all shit.
Re:My PC should keep working w/o gratuitous UI cha by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 21:05 · Score: 0

How much of a Microsoft fanboy would one have to be to pay for an OS that needs to have most of its UI replaced by unsupported third party software just to become barely usable, when the alternative comes with several nice UIs to choose from for free?
How much of a Microsoft fanboy does that make the person who suggests doing this?
A little decieving by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-12 22:59 · Score: 0

Its a bit deceiving to say Microsoft is dropping Windows 8 support. When in fact 8.1 is supported til 2023. Even Windows 7 is supported til 2020. I know Microsoft would love for everyone to assume that they better get on Windows 10 or lose support. But in fact, this has been known for a while that all but IE 11 and Windows 8 was losing support. Personally, anyone on any IE version is living in the past, and if your using Windows 7 or 8.1 you better off with Firefox, Chrome or Opera.
Or one of those alternative spinoffs. Even Safari is going the way of Internet Explorer as their html5 scores are dismal compared to other browsers. The new Edge browser is hardly much better and really is just a version of IE on steroids. The only issue with Chrome is that Google tends to drop support for OS's rather quickly.
Firefox does support older platforms longer.
Large companies need to upgrade. by clay_buster · 2016-01-12 23:54 · Score: 1

This is actually good news. We finally have a security vulnerability card to play for reducing the number of browser versions we have to support in business apps. My team has been trying drop "older" browser support in our partner (B2B) applications. 25% are still on IE7/8/9. This really restricts our ability to deliver certain types of functionality. Maybe now our and our partner security teams will gain enough leverage to force an upgrade...
1. Re:Large companies need to upgrade. by tepples · 2016-01-13 08:37 · Score: 1
  
  IE 7, which shipped on Windows Vista and ran on Windows XP, is no longer supported. IE 8, which shipped on Windows 7 and ran on Windows Vista and Windows XP. is supported only on versions of Windows Embedded derived from Windows XP, such as the "POSReady" thing that some Windows XP diehards installed to take advantage of continued security updates to XP-based cash registers. IE 9, which ran on Windows 7 and Windows Vista, is supported on Windows Vista and the version of Server derived therefrom. On Windows 8.1 and 7, only IE 11 is supported. So whether you can ditch IE pre-11 depends on how many users of Windows Vista and Windows Embedded you still have.
Am I reading this wrong? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-13 00:12 · Score: 0

"In short, the final patch will nag Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 users to upgrade to Internet Explorer: A new tab will automatically open the download IE page. It doesnâ(TM)t appear Microsoft has plans to push similar notifications for Vista, Windows Server 2008, or Windows Server 2008 R2 users"
I expected some one to point out this nonsense in the first post, so now I wonder about my reading comprehension. Windows Server 2008 R2 is both getting the nag and not getting the nag. Wtf?
1. Re:Am I reading this wrong? by randm.ca · 2016-01-13 02:31 · Score: 1
  
  I was wondering the same thing...maybe they meant SP2 instead of R2 the second time, but then that still doesn't explain why they'd list Windows Server 2008 followed by Windows Server 2008 SP2...it's a pretty safe bet that if SP2 can't upgrade then neither can the non-SP2 version.
O_o by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-13 01:28 · Score: 0

And having just gotten wifi working on Mint 17.3 (killer wireless NIC was being temperamental), combined with dualboot to 7 pro when needed, I find their tactic to force folks onto an ad platform as effective as a fart in the wind. Hint: not effective.
Laptop hardware support by tepples · 2016-01-13 02:21 · Score: 1

the past decade has brought [...] the ability to try [GNU/Linux] in a VM or even LiveCD/USB to try it on your hardware.
Does this include trying it on a laptop before buying the laptop? Not everybody is satisfied with the limited selection of laptops sold by System76.
1. Re:Laptop hardware support by exomondo · 2016-01-13 10:15 · Score: 1
  
  Does this include trying it on a laptop before buying the laptop?
  Are there that many laptops for sale that Linux doesn't run properly on?
2. Re:Laptop hardware support by tepples · 2016-01-13 10:50 · Score: 1
  
  I don't know if "many", but last time I checked, GNU/Linux distributions had problems with especially the 10.1" and 11.6" segment. There are stories of a lot of things (such as keyboard, touch, and sleep) not working on the ASUS EeeBook X205TA and Transformer Book T100TA in more than one distribution.
Re:My PC should keep working w/o gratuitous UI cha by tepples · 2016-01-13 02:50 · Score: 1

Why should applying security updates require also applying user interface changes?
Bug to add Linux drivers was RESOLVED WONTFIX by tepples · 2016-01-13 04:12 · Score: 1

Then complain to the hardware makers that they should include Linux-drivers also on that disk?
RESOLVED WONTFIX
Historically, hardware makers are more open to complaints about missing functionality in Windows than about such in Linux. If it doesn't say Linux on the box, the manufacturer is not obligated to support its use under Linux.

Not like the makers behind Linux can help it if the hardware makers don't make drivers and don't give specs.
This is why increasing the install base of free operating systems is so important: it makes hardware makers less likely to just write off GNU/Linux users as acceptable collateral damage.
Re:My PC should keep working w/o gratuitous UI cha by FlyHelicopters · 2016-01-13 04:52 · Score: 1

Who says it does?
All this is saying is that Windows 8 is no longer going to be supported.
That isn't any different than Windows XP no longer being supported.
If you install Windows XP RTM, then patch it all the way to April 2014 EOL, the UI doesn't actually change THAT much. Service Pack 2 was the really big change, but that was a long time ago.
Windows 8.1 is a different OS than 8.0. 8.1 is not a "security update", it is an OS upgrade.
As for Windows 7, it largely looks the same RTM vs fully patched.
So really, I'm not sure what your point is.
---
Side example, since you bought up cars... Look at Ford MyTouch in 2011 era cars. It looks very different to the one in 2014 cars. You can actually patch and upgrade the 2011 cars to look like the 2014 cars, and it works MUCH better overall, far fewer bugs. (I know, I owned a 2011 Explorer and MyTouch was a mess the first year or two until it got fixed).
But you DO lose features in the upgrade, there are some things that it did at launch that they had to remove to make it more stable.
So this does happen in cars sometimes.
Re: My PC should keep working w/o gratuitous UI ch by Bing+Tsher+E · 2016-01-13 06:22 · Score: 1

You'd have to be as much of a Windows fanboy as the typical Linux fanboy. And face it, Windows users typically don't have the same tweak's enthusiasm as Linux users.
I dont care. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-13 07:45 · Score: 0

run Linux Mint and IOS now.
Windows 10 apply upgrades no matter what fail.
Winds 10 monkey with you bios boot order.
Windows 10 uninstalls apps that you want to run in the background.
No you keep it there is no app or game I need to run that bad.
Re:My PC should keep working w/o gratuitous UI cha by exomondo · 2016-01-13 10:02 · Score: 1

when the alternative comes with several nice UIs to choose from for free?
Because the alternative can't run my programs...obviously. You realize that is the whole point of an operating system?
Normal people use an operating system not because they are a "fanboy" but because it does what they need. I run Linux but not exclusively because it can't run most of my programs, so I need Windows as well. Windows - like Linux and OSX - has its problems and limitations, I suppose I could complain about it but it's more productive to just find a solution to the issue.
Correct info from MS by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-13 10:58 · Score: 0

Instead this third party link and other speculation in this thread, why not check the actual info from MS themselves:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle#gp/Microsoft-Internet-Explorer
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/WindowsForBusiness/End-of-IE-support
summary of what IE versions are STILL supported as of now and will STILL receive updates on what OS:
Windows Vista SP2 Internet Explorer 9
Windows 7 SP1 Internet Explorer 11
Windows 8.1 Update Internet Explorer 11
Windows Server 2008 SP2 Internet Explorer 9
Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1 Internet Explorer 11
Windows Server 2012 Internet Explorer 10
Windows Server 2012 R2 Internet Explorer 11
Re:My PC should keep working w/o gratuitous UI cha by terjeber · 2016-01-13 23:30 · Score: 1

Microsoft is the only one that is THAT bad
When children speak it can be funny. This is. According to you logic, we should still be using the UX from Windows 3. Ugh! You are too young to remember the vitriol the "Toys 'R Us" UX of Windows XP received. People hated the Windows XP UX every bit as much as they hated Windows 8. Your comment is complete nonsense, and factually wrong too. Apple has dramatically changed its UX over the years, and they have even split it in half where the UX on OSX is dramatically different from the UX on iOS (though the two share a lot of the core).
Yes, Windows 8 - making the desktop like a tablet, was a serious mistake, but even then I was able to enjoy the many benefits of Windows 8 (less resource usage, better performance etc) by simply investing a tiny amount of money and time to make Windows 8 and Windows 7 indistinguishable. Should I have had to, not really, no, but I would rather actually fix the problem then whine about something that was entirely inconsequential.
Re:My PC should keep working w/o gratuitous UI cha by terjeber · 2016-01-13 23:31 · Score: 1

Bovine manure.
Re:My PC should keep working w/o gratuitous UI cha by terjeber · 2016-01-13 23:32 · Score: 1

How much of a fan-boy would I have to be to use an OS with a user-hating UX and no usable applications just to spite Microsoft? Or, let me put it differently, what kind of a MORON would do that?