Netflix Executive Admits a VPN-Blocking Policy Might Be Impossible To Enforce (theglobeandmail.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Netflix's chief product officer Neil Hunt has admitted that the company has 'no magic solution' to subscribers who use VPNs to access content not licensed for their geographical region, commenting that 'It's likely to always be a cat-and-mouse game'. Hunt notes that Netflix can only rely on lists of VPN IP addresses, and that these can easily be changed. However since Netflix subscribers pay for the service via geographically linked credit and debit cards, this article wonders if Netflix really believes that hundreds of thousands of their subscribers are permanently in migration or on holiday — and also that venerable old VPN IP addresses — ones so well-known that they are routinely challenged by services such as CloudFlare — never seem to have any trouble connecting to a Netflix account.

Comments

Netflix doesn't care

[Fwipp]

Netflix doesn't care if people outside the Approved Content Zone are watching (and paying). They only have to pretend to care, to appease the other corporations they're licensing media from.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[gstoddart]

No, I'm sure Netflix doesn't care -- probably because they know they can't do anything about it, and because it's not really hurting their bottom line.

Of course, the media cartel will start pushing for even crazier locks to ensure nobody can ever see something without their express permission.

I doubt they'd ever pull it off, but I can imagine someone demanding hardware fobs with built in GPS or something equally draconian and idiotic. Or having such a system me required to be included in computers.

Because as far as they're concerned, they should have veto rights over every piece of technology on the planet.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[xxxJonBoyxxx]

^^^ This. Plus the smart ones realize that that someone paying $8/month is the best they'll get: if they cut them off at the knees, we, I mean they, will just go back to being 100% pirate.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[xfizik]

And that is fine with me. I really don't care if they care.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[The-Ixian]

As a matter of fact, at some point in the last year or two, Netflix went to a "per screen" subscription model.

This implied (to me anyway) an acknowledgement of the fact that people share accounts with friends and family.

Instead of putting a damper on account sharing, they used the opportunity to offer different screen numbers at different price points.

They could have started banning accounts or locking to a particular IP or something, but they didn't take the heavy handed approach.

It was a really smart move and shows that they are flexible.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[Nikker]

AFAIK being a Canadian subscriber, the US version of Netflix I would have the lions share of content. If so then they would be able to see what content was viewed by users who have registered information from other locations. They could use this to make offerings and tailor their service to other markets.

So really it's not a loss for either the content owners or Netflix, they get to see a preview of demand and negotiate accordingly to bring that to the location that favors them the most.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[lgw]

No, I'm sure Netflix doesn't care -- probably because they know they can't do anything about it, and because it's not really hurting their bottom line.

The Netflix CEO recently gave a speech as CIS where he said "sharing is good". They're happy with multiple people watching a screen, they're happy with parents sharing their password with kids (and the multi-screen option looks cheap to me), because they know people would rather have their own accounts, and likely will when they stop being broke students.

I think he gets it.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[fustakrakich]

Yeah, but maybe they would prefer to save a penny or two in not having to chase down 'violators'. Eh, who cares? As long as the blockage can be circumvented it's all good.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[Coren22]

My Netflix account even has three sub accounts for the same price! Each account has its own preferences and watch list. There is no reason for my kids, or my parents, to go out and get their own accounts as there is nothing they are missing out on by sharing my account.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[grahamtriggs]

There is nothing you can do about people using VPNs, but you could easily make other changes, and not care about the IP address - acknowledging and recognising the people go on holiday.

That's a bigger bugbear with some of these services than the content restrictions - take Mubi. I can download content onto my tablet for offline viewing. But if I happen to turn the network, it realises I'm not in the region that I downloaded the content, and suddenly i can't watch it. Hey, it happens to be that I'm on holiday - let me watch the god damn content that I have paid for and am legally entitled to watch.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[hummassa]

YES. And their monies are better spend licensing content and PRODUCING the great content they are producing. So, geoblocking would be a lose-lose anyway.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

Well, even that is getting stale. Content creators get their money via Netflix. It really only messes with content creators' other deals, like a particular network in a region or country.

This is the same thing that delayed radio stations dumping their streams over the Internet.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[SimonTheSoundMan]

Apple does the same with movies and TV programmes purchased through iTunes. Went to America, purchased a few films to watch, with my British iTunes account. Get home, cannot watch them as soon as I connect with a British IP. Go back to America, all is fine.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[gstoddart]

Legally entitled to watch.

What a quaint notion.

Until you have an offline digital file which doesn't require a network to give you permission to watch it, you have no such thing.

According to the copyright cartel, you're only allowed to watch where and when they tell you that you're allowed. And you're supposed to say "thank you sir" and be grateful they let you watch it at all.

Legally entitled to watch is defined by the lawyers of a greedy corporation. YOU have no rights except the crumbs they choose to give you.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[Anonymous Coward]

Pretty much this.

I wish media companies would hurry up and just get rid of this retarded problem.
The major issue with this system is advertising. Geographically related ads is a stupidly trivial thing to create dynamically in a data stream.
Person streaming from UK, splice UK-related ad streams instead of US, instead of French, instead of whatever. Simple.
The other issue is simply plain stupid tradition, ignorance and greed.

The more these companies try to push back at the ONLY way media is going to evolve, they will just make more pirates.
Online distribution is the superior gene (technically meme). It will go places TV can't.
Interactive TV will also become a larger part of that. It is partially getting there in some trials here and there, but the biggest indication of it right now is indirect interactivity through things like Twitter and Facebook inspiration.
There will still be a place for TV, it will simply evolve to streams that can be created by TV stations or even people.
You could subscribe to a Sci-fi stream, or maybe hard sci-fi, maybe only classic sci-fi.
This sort of system vastly improves on what can be done with TV, and cheaper.
There is no point trying to fight it because it would get you MORE money since people are actually watching things they are interested in!

If they kill it now, they will lose more and more people to piracy.
It will be their loss and then our loss as companies lose money and sales so stuff gets cancelled.
STOP TRYING TO KILL ONLINE.
Get rid of stupid geo-locked crap.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[ttucker]

I came here to write exactly this.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[tlhIngan]

They could have started banning accounts or locking to a particular IP or something, but they didn't take the heavy handed approach.

IP blocking doesn't work - because someone can watch Netflix at home using their home broadband, while someone else is using a mobile connection. Or maybe if they're all together, mom, dad, and the children are each on their own devices using their own data with 4 separate IPs.

That's why limiting IPs isn't feasible - there are very legitimate reasons to have multiple IPs even if everyone is in the same room!

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[Applehu Akbar]

Especially since most violations of the Approved Content Zone are subscribers who are temporarily away from home. It should not be difficult for Netflix to make sure that a subscriber lives in the place where he claims to be, and only a dedicated buccaneer would go to the trouble of keeping up a subscription at a US address while actually living in Thailand. VPN users are going to be Americans who happen to be in Germany the week they want to stream Netflix content that is tagged as US-only.

I'll watch my show where I want to, and the Hollywood lawyers can go f* themselves.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[MightyMartian]

Short of a built-in GPS unit in every computer that can signal where the device is on the globe, what exactly can even the media giants do? They're the ones that have fixated on IP addresses as the be-all and end-all of geolocation, and that is coming home to roost.

Maybe all these media companies should just sell their bloody products on the Internet, regardless of location of producer or consumer, and quit sawing off their own fucking legs.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[sims 2]

Sub accounts? Is that new?

Netflix has profiles for different users on a single account but its not compatible with older netflix clients.

I would not call the profiles features sub accounts though as the profiles are not password protected and you have to trust everyone on your account not to change the password nuke your viewing history or swap to your profile and watch an entire season of mlp.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[The-Ixian]

Yeah, I was shooting from the hip there.

But let's say that they did want to block based on IP.

Netflix could theoretically save the last, say 10, IP addresses you have accessed Netflix from. On the 11th one within a certain time frame, say a month, it would block the stream and require a phone call to customer service who will happily clear out the IP history. I think this would be transparent to most users if the numbers are adjusted correctly.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[CohibaVancouver]

what exactly can even the media giants do?

Tie the content's geo-stamp to the billing address of the account's credit card. Sure, some users can jump through the hoops of getting a foreign card, but most won't bother.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[Anonymous Coward]

Are there legitimate reasons for one device to have multiple public IPs simultaneously? If not, you've missed the fucking point. (And since you need help, the point is that Netflix is aware the people use their accounts on multiple devices simultaneously, and instead of locking you to one video stream at a time, they give options. You're welcome.)

Re: Netflix doesn't care

[Anonymous Coward]

Sub accounts have been around for a few years

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[Anonymous Coward]

Are there legitimate reasons for one device to have multiple public IPs simultaneously?

Yes.
1. You can have as many ip addresses as you like. Rarely done at home because addresses cost.
2. A multi-homed machine (high availability etc) has several network connections, and each necessarily has its own ip address.

Not that netflix can see that you have several devices - if you're behind a NAT router they cannot know. And if you want to include friends that live elsewhere, just set up a VPN for them.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[Anonymous Coward]

Tie the content's geo-stamp to the billing address of the account's credit card. S.

Will never happen. They don't want to shut out customers who get their bills paid by some rich relative overseas. As long as they get their money, they're fine.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[Anonymous Coward]

Netflix doesn't need to care.

The argument for it, just like Steam, comes from the value of the Dollar. When I subscribed to Netflix, it was 7.99CAD, which is now 5.56. So if I watch US netflix I'm practically paying 30% less than the current US price

All Netflix needs to do is respect content laws, and the easiest way to do this is just make all the content available to all regions, and let the user use it as a filtering mechanism. If certain content is "blocked in your country" eg due to censorship, obscenity laws, or licensing issues, then Netflix just needs to warn the user that the content may not have an audio track or subtitle track in their language. Whoever produced the content still gets paid, and if the content ever gets licensed in the region the user actually lives in, they will get the option to see the version for their country.

This works perfectly since Netflix isn't showing "new" content most of the time. It certainly would solve the HBO problem (eg people pirating game of thrones because there is no license, or no HBO in Australia.) It would also solve the majority of reasons people pirate Anime (Japanese Cartoons) since you could just run the Raw version until someone licenses it, and it appeases the nerds who would resort to piracy first anyway.

What Netflix should do, and I don't say this lightly, is also put "Not Rated"/Unrated/Adult content on it, and I don't mean "porn" itself, but rather the kind of content that retailers won't carry because it's too "mature" (eg too much violence, gratuitous language, sexy bits) and make this content only available to devices that aren't "kid accessible", eg the device has to have the "family lock" feature enabled, and devices without such a feature aren't shown the content. So you won't see it on tablet/phone devices, only "private viewing" capable devices like VR helmets and "smart" televisions that can identify who is watching.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[PCM2]

As a matter of fact, at some point in the last year or two, Netflix went to a "per screen" subscription model.

They did? I stream Netflix on my smart TV, with a set-top box type device, and on three or four PCs and tablets, and very rarely my phone -- and I think I pay $8/month.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[Anonymous Coward]

This is actually the worst mechanism because it creates situations where a "US card" will have a "Non US" address and the billing system will reject payment entirely.

Unless you work in a call center and regularly had to deal with people paying by card, you'd probably not know about how credit card authorization works.

Step 1: Get the card from the customer
Step 2: Enter the card on the payment screen (just like your online payment)
Step 3: The backend will verify that the card name and address matches the account.
Step 4: The information will be queried against MC/VISA/AMEX's information, and if it mismatches, the policy is supposed to be REJECT ALWAYS
and this is where the edge cases come in
- Is the number right?
- Is the address right, but the name wrong?
- Is the name right but the address wrong?
- Is the zip code off by one number?
- Is any number transposed?
You can force it to succeed as long as the ZIP CODE is correct, but you're not supposed to.
Step 5: the payment system will ask how much you want to pay
- Verify that the amount to charge is correct, no missing decimal points
Step 6: Payment accepted/declined

And then you see the payment on your card statement 3 days or so later.

So places like Apple that do regional-specific billing can't use a US debit card with a non-US address, for anything. Same with Amtrak. If you want to go through the hassle of having a US debit/credit card so you aren't constantly nickel and dimed on exchange rates (and many Canadians have these cards) you still need a US address, typically a hotel room or trailer park address you stay at a few days per year, or a friend in the US who is authorized to open your mail.

Canadians will go through an awful lot of effort for a tiny gain. This is the same stuff grey-market satellite dish people have been doing for decades. They have a DirecTV and a Shaw Direct box inside their RV, and just switch when the cross the border, or use both. Most seniors only have one or the other, but they have to pay for it year round, so they just use it year round.

Re: Netflix doesn't care

[Anonymous Coward]

Per simultaneous screen.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[nuckfuts]

IP blocking doesn't work - because someone can watch Netflix at home using their home broadband, while someone else is using a mobile connection...

You're missing the point of "IP blocking" in this context. It's not about a user accessing from multiple IP addresses. It's about people using a VPN service to make their connection come in from another country. If some content is not licenced for viewing outside the US, for example, viewers outside the US can use a VPN provider to tunnel their traffic through a US IP address. It is this IP address - one being used by a VPN service provider to tunnel in unauthorized viewers - that Netflix would be trying to block. And yes, it would be effective, although they admit it's "a cat and mouse game" because the VPN provider can switch to using a different IP address.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[fluffernutter]

Furthermore, it behooves the VPN provider to switch addresses frequently because any given one has got to have 50-60% clientèle that are using it for Netflix. Just as it is bad business for Netflix to piss off their customers by blocking them.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[TapeCutter]

Geo blocking has very little to do with advertising. It's all about the content owner selling EXCLUSIVE rights to a TV network, cinema chain, pay TV channel, etc. The exclusivity only applies to a region. It a method for maximising profits in a global market, content owners get to sell as many exclusive licenses as there are regions.When those agreements expire they start selling non-exclusive licenses. Netflix and VPN make a mockery of their exclusive licenses, however Netflix is now a major distributor and a major source of revenue for content owners, so content owners who use geo-blocking now find themselves contemplating killing the global goose that pays the bills. They have been threatening to do so from the beginning, just like a hopeless alcoholic threatens to give up drinking every morning.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[zAPPzAPP]

And what about those of us on a dynamic ip that changes at least every day?

Re: Netflix doesn't care

[bill_mcgonigle]

The Iranians know how to spoof GPS signals quite well. Be suspicious if they start pushing for more geolocation. If you believe the tinhatters, all Intel Management chipsets already have latent 3G hardware which could be repurposed for this use case.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[Anonymous Coward]

You will never be the world-weary cynic you're trying to act like.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[nobuddy]

Exactly what is happening. they know the regional licensing agreements and all that are horsepucky legacy that will die. they just have to give it lip service and minimal action to appease the dinosaurs that won't let go of them.
Soon enough they will either die out or learn to adapt to new media. netflix is big enough that the content creators do not want to lose the venue.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[mjwx]

My Netflix account even has three sub accounts for the same price! Each account has its own preferences and watch list. There is no reason for my kids, or my parents, to go out and get their own accounts as there is nothing they are missing out on by sharing my account.

I have the most basic level of Netflix (My ADSL tops out at 3 gbps on a good day, thanks LNP for killing the NBN) and I can still create several profiles. It's actually rather annoying as I would rather Netflix just logs in with my profile by default.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[mysidia]

Are there legitimate reasons for one device to have multiple public IPs simultaneously?

Yes, it's called being multihomed. Also MP-TCP/IPMP.

Linux and Apple iOS support it for starters, and it can greatly improve network performance.

There are also firewall devices which will balance traffic sourced across WANs.

Or may use a public IP address NAT pool, where different TCP connections from the same end host will be sourced from different public IPs, because they're different connection ID numbers.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[mysidia]

viewers outside the US can use a VPN provider to tunnel their traffic through a US IP address.

It's not a "Cat vs Mouse" game; it's more like a "Cat vs Tick" game

.....Or they can get a friend in the US to provide a private VPN for them to use.

Or they can colocate a personal server in the US, and VPN through that.

Or they can stand up short-term Amazon EC2 compute instances in a US datacenter with a private VPN through that, using the AWS API to turn it on only when they need Netflix.

There are some cloud-based security providers that normal US-based users and businesses proxy their web traffic through for security filtering... I'm thinking services such as Zscaler. But there are other consumer-level web antivirus/anti-malware filtering services that involve traffic proxying

Blocking them all won't really be an option, because it will result in too many upset customers.

More points if the guerila-VPN user gets some AWS Elastic IP addresses that happen to be in the same /24 as one of those major Cloud "Remote Web filtering/traffic scrubbing as a service" providers, for their personal VPNs.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[tepples]

And their monies are better spend licensing content

Perhaps the geoblocking makes the license affordable.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[gstoddart]

You will never be the world-weary cynic you're trying to act like.

LOL ... that's the nicest (and most untrue) thing anybody has said to me all year.

World-weary has a certain grandeur I don't agree with, but the cynic part has been true for a very long time.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[Wycliffe]

It is this IP address - one being used by a VPN service provider to tunnel in unauthorized viewers - that Netflix would be trying to block. And yes, it would be effective, although they admit it's "a cat and mouse game" because the VPN provider can switch to using a different IP address.

No, it's not effective. It's not that the VPN provider CAN switch it that it probably does. It likely has hundreds if not thousands of endpoints. Me, personally, if I wanted a VPN, I would just spin up an amazon or digital ocean image. If they blocked my IP, it would take only a few minutes to spin up another one or in the case of elastic IPs I wouldn't even need to spin up a new instance just assign a new IP to an existing instance. The only way to block VPN would be to start blocking large chunks of the cloud which would also be problematic for netflix as they are using that same cloud to provide their services.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[Midnight Thunder]

Things become a little murkier if you add IPv6, which Netflix supports, by means of AWS. The blocks are huge and variable in size. The challenge of blocking IP ranges is asking what is a fair range to block, without incurring collateral damage? Then add to that the creativity of people looking to get around geographical IP blocks, which certainly makes things a case of cat and mouse.

What really needs to happen is for the media cartels to accept that their 'per geography' distribution models are starting to crack and if they want to keep control, then they need to be a little more flexible?

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[Anonymous Coward]

It's cost per simultaneous screen, not per screen ever used. The cheapest plan only allows one screen at a time and won't screen HD. The next plan does 2 screens and HD, and the most expensive is 4 screen and 4k, IIRC.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[h33t l4x0r]

Wow. I've lived in towns with smaller carbon footprints than you.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[AK Marc]

Yes, but Netflix must realize that three people could be in the same room on three different devices, all connected through a different geo gateway, so that one account has 3 connections to the same physical location that "appear" to be from three different countries. I've bounced between countries a bit getting the show I wanted to work, and Netflix doesn't care, when they could easily find and stop it, if they wished.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[Opportunist]

Even more than that. They DO care. It is in their best interest that you can use VPNs to watch their content. Netflix is one of the few ways someone can see the latest (insert show here) before it gets available in their country due to territory protection. If that wasn't possible anymore, they'd very likely actually lose subscribers. Because, well, why bother if I don't get what I want out of it?

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[silentcoder]

Well, netflix is now available in my country - but I am still using a VPN service for the American version - I simply am not willing to pay the fee for a catalog less than a quarter as big as the one I get now - and critically, one that misses almost every single show I actually watch one it.
Netflix internationally seem to actively avoid including shows already licensed to local television networks - despite the fact that the decision to stream can primarily be driven by the advantages streaming has over centrally scheduled television (like deciding for yourself how many episodes of what you want to watch when).
I can understand the legal and business reasons for that, but for those of us technically adept enough to get around these restrictions - I feel absolutely no guilt whatsoever. I do, after all, pay for the service.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[silentcoder]

Exactly !
Before netflix over VPN became viable here, I pirated tons of shows - not because I have a problem with paying (I actually bought the entire X-files and House series on DVD in the past) but because the local TV stations were always at least one and more commonly 3 years behind - and I wanted to see the things my friends around the world were discussing and see them while the real-world-events being referenced were still relevant.
I also wanted to see some shows which were not released here at all because somebody decided the market would be too small.

Netflix and a VPN solves that problem (a local netflix account would not) so why would I go back to paying for a TV subscription I would hardly use on a schedule I don't control ? And why would I get a local subscription that doesn't have the shows I want ?

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[LordWabbit2]

'per geography' distribution models are starting to crack

It's an old archaic method of licensing and should be scrapped entirely, just like video stores and bookshops are dying out because they have become obsolete. We are a global village now, and it's about time the media cartels pulled their collective heads out of each others asses and smelled the roses.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[Big Hairy Ian]

Netflix doesn't care if people outside the Approved Content Zone are watching (and paying). They only have to pretend to care, to appease the other corporations they're licensing media from.

And the governments of countries they operate in

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[pnutjam]

For example, I have all ssh traffic stick to one IP, so I can get to my computer remotely. Other traffic goes out a vpn. I could also direct traffic to a 3rd or 4th network based on a variety of criteria.

FYI, if you want to do this, don't buy some SMB router that says it supports it, they suck. Use a linux or bsd based device.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[pnutjam]

If your doing this, http://www.flixsearch.io/ is your friend.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because regional content restrictions are total bullshit and everyone knows it.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[IcyWolfy]

You do realise you can set your billing address to anything you want, arbitrarily, anytime?

I do this all the time to get around credit-card geolocation.
I call up my CC company (CapitalOne, Chase, USAA, or Bank of Montreal), and say "I'd like to temporarily change my billing address" and then give them an appropriate out of country address. It's nice if it exists, but it doesn't have to.

And if you have paperless billing, it really doesn't matter at all.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[IcyWolfy]

Not quite correct.

You can call your CC company up and set your billing address to anything you want, in any country.
I've done this hundreds of times over the past 15 years. More so in Canada, just set my billing address to a non-existent US address. (CC has paperless billing)

Or, when I needed something from iTunes, I set my US Capital One card billing address to one in the UK. Capital One has this to an art, in that you can set your Card Replacement Mailing address separate from your Billing Address -- just for this reason. So I keep my card address in US, and the Billing address in the EU.

For US Credit Card Validation, For Zip Code: Strip non-numeric characters, and 0-pad.
So, for the billing address 123 Fake St, Leeds, LS11 7EJ
You can enter the address: 123 Fake St; Leeds; NY, 11700
- And it passes ZIP validatio and US Processor Validation (nearly all explictly state they cannot validate non-US billing addresses, and will always succeed.
- Using NY, just satifies website logic in case they are trying to be "smart" and applying the state's zipcode range;
- Entering the correct Address and City will trigger a successful validation if they are in the few systems (I've never actually seen one in the US that does) that validate non-US billing addreses.

They used to provide this information for Canadians renting cars to the US, so they can figure out what ZipCode to enter on Gas Station Pumps.
( Zip = 2C3 R4L; enter 23400 )

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[IcyWolfy]

>> Netflix ... seems to actively avoid including shows already licensed to local television networks.

Probably because, the local provider has full broadcasting rights to the content in the country, which usually include internet streaming. (those are being split out in newer contracts)

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[david_thornley]

It may make the license affordable, or available at all, since movie and TV show rights are often sold country by country. It's still not in Netflix's interest to enforce it any more than their license says they have to.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[dkman]

I never really thought about it, but that's certainly true. If you're signed up for paperless billing it's not like anything is ever going to get mailed there.

That's also an interesting point about Canadian cards at gas pumps.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for that. I'll try it next time, instead of driving around looking for a gas pump that will sell to Canadians.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[doccus]

...should be scrapped entirely, just like video stores and bookshops are dying out because they have become obsolete. ...

A small point here.. Bookshops obsolete? Please say NEVER! OK.. those crap shops with mall lighting and escalators selling those worthless trash novels and vanity pressings were already obsolete when Mosaic was current (!) , as far as I'm concerned..but those wonderful small bookstores such as we have in Victoria and 'Frisco with a dozen small, 8' high, single shaded lamp, rooms that one can get lost in for days can never disappear. That would truly portend the end of civilization on a level as tragic as the burning of Alexandria...

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[Anonymous Coward]

It's about people using a VPN service to make their connection come in from another country. If some content is not licenced for viewing outside the US, for example, viewers outside the US can use a VPN provider to tunnel their traffic through a US IP address.
 
If they (content providers) don't want money from someone in another country, they shouldn't complain when they aren't getting money from people in that country. They wonder why people pirate stuff.

Re:Netflix doesn't care

[LordWabbit2]

Whilst I agree with you, I fear that the number of bookstores will dwindle, until you get "speciality" bookshops only. Just a sign of the times I'm afraid. I myself gave most of my books to charity when I last moved, smaller place, cost too much to pack them for moving. I only kept my absolute favourites. I get a warm fuzzy feeling walking into a library etc. but you have to agree that soon no one would open a book shop to make a living. BTW that's what I plan to do when I retire, open a bookshop to keep me occupied and active.

China says no

[cloud.pt]

I bet the guys at the big china great firewall dev team are laughing their arses off.

Re:China says no

[xxxJonBoyxxx]

It's like anything we've ever sold to China. They buy ONE, then take it from there.

Re: China says no

[ArmoredDragon]

I doubt that. The Chinese don't care where a VPN ends, which is what Netflix needs to target. What the Chinese target are the entry points, which has to be known in order to even have service.

Re: China says no

[cloud.pt]

Netflix has client apps in any platform that the content is accessed through. You can't simply access Netflix without those, so they're also "entry points", just not at the transport level. If Netflix wised up (which I hope they don't), they may very well enforce regional lockout through a lot of (usually hard to change) system parameters that broadcast a specific device is in a specific country or restricted region (PAL, NTSC anyone?). They just have to look them up and filter there. When I say hard to change, I'm of course referring to consumer electronics OS's (i.e. NOT PCs but PS3/4, STBs, Smart TVs, Mobile Phones or even routers...). Of course there would still be workarounds, but using a VPN is becoming a much easier "workaround" than, say, flash US firmware for a EU TV model/SetTopBox... you know the drill. Getting a VPN configured on a router is not nearly as hard and risky than flashing your TV, nor does it have a on/off switch for that flashing either like you can disable a VPN on demand.

Re: China says no

[Sique]

According to the specs of my TV set, it supports both NTSC and PAL(+). Only SECAM is left out. Of course it's a cheap one, because only a high price brand will make the effort to create specific versions for different markets. The cheap ones go the one-size-fits-all-route. I've seen this happening first with DVD players, where the number of formats they play was somehow inversely proportional to the price tag, and the very cheap ones even left out regio coding.

Who wants geo-blocking?

[Ost99]

Netflix wants global license deals for the content, they have no self interest in blocking VPN users.

Netflix will do just enough to make sure they don't get content pulled by the content owners or jeopardize future content deals. If they can convince the content owners that the VPN problem cannot be solved, all the better for both Netflix and the users.

Re:Who wants geo-blocking?

[Mitreya]

If they can convince the content owners that the VPN problem cannot be solved, all the better for both Netflix and the users.

Or maybe it should be illegal to do Geo-blocking, particularly if it applies to customers who reside in the correct region but happen to be traveling this month. Why should they even need to use VPN to access their paid-for account while traveling??
I am certainly amazed that DVD region restrictions are (apparently) legal. Why does globalization (e.g. H1-B) only work for corporations?

Re:Who wants geo-blocking?

[Ost99]

Yes, absolutely.
Globalization has to cut both ways.

Re:Who wants geo-blocking?

[AHuxley]

Established coax networks in different nations want to bring exclusive shows to hype their ability to release in time with a US or UK release date.
With video online any service can bring that same show to that nation at a lower cost per show or season or series.
Thats why nations keep been lobbied by established national coax or network brands to protect their regional total control over a market.

Re:Who wants geo-blocking?

[Sique]

If I remember correctly, region coding was declared illegal in Australia, and it was declared non-enforceable in New Zealand. The argument at the time that convinced the judge(s) was that only 700 english titles were released for region 4 (South America, Southern Pacific), while at the same time more than 17,000 english titles were available in region 1 (U.S., Canada), and the motion picture industry couldn't explain why they needed that much time for a regional release.

MPAA is that you?

[The-Ixian]

This article certainly seems to be slanted toward the interests of the copyright holders.

I think that as long as Netflix makes a token effort, that is all that is required. As has been stated many times in these comments, "Follow the money"

Why would Netflix be interested being heavy handed about who they sell subscriptions to? There are legitimate reasons someone might be streaming over a VPN. Perhaps the VPN user is worried about ISP snooping or is on a public network.

Anyway, I am not super optimistic about Netflix's future. Now that other content providers have their own distribution systems, they don't really need Netflix any more. I find less and less content on Netflix all the time. I actually find that I am watching my add-free Hulu more than anything these days.

Re:MPAA is that you?

[pr0fessor]

NBC, ABC, CBS, CWTV, MTV, Disney, and more offer streams of recent episodes of their prime time shows with commercials of course or possibly without or with more content for a small monthly fee. Netflix isn't what it used to be but there are plenty of other options, right now aside of from the netflix originals they don't have anything I can't get on hulu or free and legal somewhere else, I cut cable TV a few years ago when all those stations started offering their prime time shows and haven't really felt like I was missing anything.

Re:MPAA is that you?

[rsborg]

NBC, ABC, CBS, CWTV, MTV, Disney, and more offer streams of recent episodes of their prime time shows with commercials of course or possibly without or with more content for a small monthly fee. Netflix isn't what it used to be but there are plenty of other options, right now aside of from the netflix originals they don't have anything I can't get on hulu or free and legal somewhere else, I cut cable TV a few years ago when all those stations started offering their prime time shows and haven't really felt like I was missing anything.

Sorry, commercials are a showstopper for me. YMMV, of course, but Hulu doesn't come close to what I use Neflix for. Which is probably why they're doing so well.

Re:MPAA is that you?

[The-Ixian]

I primarily use Netflix to binge on older TV shows. Since I don't have a cable subscription, I miss many of the "hot" shows. But then will watch them a few years later when they show up on Netflix. I also like some of the Netflix originals; "The Killing" was probably my favorite TV series of all time.

Hulu is great now that they offer an add-free service. Even with the ads, it wasn't anywhere near as bad as regular broadcast TV. But now that it is ad-free and because it has almost exactly the same back catalog as Netflix, my decision then becomes: "who has the better app?" On Roku, the Netflix app is still better than Hulu, but they are pretty close.

The problem with Hulu is that they only keep a week or two of content for new shows, so if you miss more than that, you can't go back and catch up.

Re:MPAA is that you?

[pr0fessor]

I keep Netflix because I like some of their original content, they have back catalogs of entire shows I can binge watch without comercials, and it's organized all in one place as apposed to searching back and forth between dozens of free sites only to watch it with commercials. What I really don't miss is paying $30 for the previously mentioned stations with commercial interruptions when I get the same service free 24 hours later and more conveniently packaged in a stream I can watch at my convenience not on a tv schedule.

Re:MPAA is that you?

[pr0fessor]

Most of those "hot" shows are offered straight off the networks website with commercials of course and you can watch a lot of OTA stations on a live stream from their own site just a tablet with chrome and playon the roku.

Plex has channels for the big networks and can organize your dvd collection to watch on your roku, xbox, play station, etc...

Re:MPAA is that you?

[stephanruby]

ones so well-known that they are routinely challenged by services such as CloudFlare

Also, I am constantly challenged by CloudFlare, but I live in the US.

At least, they could have mentioned a less crappy service.

Re:MPAA is that you?

[Anonymous Coward]

I doubt Netflix is going anywhere anytime soon. Even if you ignore all of the licensed content they have enough good to great original content currently to justify the $10 a month they charge. Here's just a partial list (most of it newly released in 2015):

House of Cards
Orange is the New Black
Bloodline
Daredevil
Sense8
Narcos
Jessica Jones
Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt
Master of None
Chef's Table
Making a Murderer

I believe they are planning on releasing twice the amount of original content in 2016 as compared to 2015.

Re:MPAA is that you?

[The-Ixian]

One thing that I have noticed about some of the TV Network's apps is they require proof that you have a local cable subscription. Since I don't, I cannot use those apps.

I do use Chromecast to stream stuff from my PC and I do use OTA.... (when I am particularly bored).

I have looked at Plex, but I don't want to pay yet another bill. As it is, my cord cutting (between Amazon Prime, Netflix and Hulu ad-free) cost me about as much as a basic cable bill (around $35/month) anyway.

Re:MPAA is that you?

[Wraithlyn]

Now that other content providers have their own distribution systems, they don't really need Netflix any more.

This is exactly why Netflix is going gangbusters on producing their own (high-quality) content.

Once the digital-distribution playing field has levelled somewhat, the content-owners will (once again) hold all the cards. Netflix is preparing for that.

Re:MPAA is that you?

[pr0fessor]

The life time subscription was $49 when I got plex now it's $149... I do enjoy it very much but there are other options that are free and open source now like emby and Kodi although Kodi is not officially supported. At the moment I would still probably buy a lifetime subscription just because I like the interface and channels and it's so much easier to setup than Kodi.

Re: MPAA is that you?

[Anonymous Coward]

Use TVMC

Blocking VPN a bad idea

[Anonymous Coward]

It's very easy to pirate these shows. Netflix should be happy people are paying.

Re:Blocking VPN a bad idea

[pr0fessor]

It's easy to get them free and legal with commercial interruptions of course cable companies should be glad people are still willing to pay for basic cable.

Re:Blocking VPN a bad idea

[91degrees]

Netflix don't give a damn about VPNs. They just need to pay a bit of lip service to mollify their providers. Their providers don't really care too much either. Netflix is giving them money

Re:Blocking VPN a bad idea

[Anonymous Coward]

It's easy to get them free and legal with commercial interruptions of course cable companies should be glad people are still willing to pay for basic cable.

Most places outside the US don't have cable. In NZ, we only have very expensive and crappy satellite service, and pretty good and free terrestrial TV.

What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[mitcheli]

I had to use VPN's to watch my properly paid for Netflix account while I was stationed overseas on a US Military Base. For all intensive purposes, I was on US soil (meeting geographic requirements), using a US leased commercial provider and was a US serviceman using a US form of payment. How much more US can I be besides being on the mainland? Yet, my access was blocked. One VPN later and my viewing was restored. Sometimes we need VPN's to make it all work.

Re: What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[Anonymous Coward]

For all intents and purposes

Re:What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[lgw]

For all intensive purposes, I was on US soil

Given you were on a base, I assume you meant "for all in tents, and porpoises".

Re:What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[Anonymous Coward]

You even munged "for all intents and purposes" like an American. If that's not good enough for Netflix, then I don't know what is.

Re: What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[mitcheli]

Ironic, I always heard it the other way, oh well, no one is perfect.

Re: What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[xxxJonBoyxxx]

It's English. Just wait another fifty years and you'll probably be right.

Re: What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hearing a phrase wrong is not ironic. Do you think ironic means 'unfortunate'?

Re:What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[Anonymous Coward]

I get annoyed with this regional crap even with Steam. I have an address in the US and Europe. I also have credit cards from both sides that I use a lot. Steam has a lot of issues with regional stuff. Sometimes payments won't even go through. Or my favorite, Steam will change the price on me during a sale when I'm in Europe and I have to pay %20 more. My all time favorite was when I was in Australia and I saw the obnoxious prices on Steam.

This regional crap is starting to be very complicated for companies. This isn't the Soviet Union where I have to receive permission to leave my address, but these companies assume it is and try to force me to conform or else.

Re:What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[110010001000]

What a looser. I'll bet he could care less.

Re:What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[Anonymous Coward]

I spent some time on several bases in Europe back in the 90s. As I recall the land and buildings were leased for some large amount of time. Are bases actually considered "US soil" ?

Re:What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[mitcheli]

Depends on the local Status of Forces Agreement in the particular area.

Re: What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

Sayings are a whole nother issue, but I could care less.

Re: What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[Revarg]

DAMN YOU ALANIS MORISSETTE!

Re:What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[Anonymous Coward]

In porpoises? I'm sure there's a law against that.

Re: What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[Anonymous Coward]

I couldn't care less.

Re: What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[Anonymous Coward]

I couldn't care less.

I could.

Re:What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't you mean "intents and purposes"? Pedantic minds want to know!

Re: What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[mjwx]

Ironic, I always heard it the other way, oh well, no one is perfect.

It's a common mispronunciation in the US, the mispronunciation is less common in English speaking countries.

Re:What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[Anonymous Coward]

He could but he won't! (ducks)

Re:What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[mjwx]

What a looser. I'll bet he could care less.

Are you trying to provoke the Grammar nazi's.

Re:What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[Anonymous Coward]

You right about that. I helped get US video content to the cable provider in Okinawa for the US military bases there. When I told the content aggregators, that it was for a US military base, all the hang ups of sending video streams to Japan went away.

Re:What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[Anonymous Coward]

For all intents and purposes, you were in US soil strictly in "political requirements".

Geographically speaking you were in a whole fucking different continent than the United States.

Re:What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[Kellamity]

As an Australian who lived in Canada for a year I was initially excited to see better game prices, then realised I couldn't actually BUY anything with my AU credit card. So couldn't shop in AU store because it knew I was in Canada, but couldn't shop in CA store because it knew I was Australian. ARRGHH!!!

In the end I changed my address to Canada and got a pre paid credit card. Just to play The Old Rebuplic when it first came out, and it's free now... (well that was on Origin, but same thing happened on Steam).

Re:What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[nnull]

The absurdity of this is mind blowing. I've had the same with both my credit cards from the EU and my credit cards from the US. Apparently I can't use my credit card from Europe to purchase games LIVING inside the US because Steam is so retarded that apparently I must be residing there in Europe and have to pay VAT (When this is not the case).

Re: What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you say both versions out loud, they sound almost identical.

A large number of semi-literate baby boomers started typing the incorrect version when computers came about, and so a lot of younger people grew up seeing the corrupted version.

Language is one of the few areas where a collection of idiots can eventually be right due to sheer numbers. If everyone uses the corrupted phrasing, it will become an accepted idiom in time. This is why I stopped studying linguistics; modern languages are all heavily influenced by past idiocy. It offends my sense of justice.

Re:What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[Anonymous Coward]

You could make your argument against any statement of disinterest, so you're stuck with no way to tell someone you don't care.

The statement is intended as a disclaimer of concern. It is inherently hyperbole because, yes, a topic of discussion is inherently being paid more attention than all topics not discussed.

The "couldn't care less" phrase is meaningful because it clearly indicates zero interest in the topic.

If you say "could care less", you are admitting your level of concern could be reduced---which means it is currently greater than zero.

In conclusion, learn what a "figure of speech" is and maybe look less ignorant in the future.

Re: What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[mitcheli]

No, I meant 'ironic'. Apparently yesterday was my day to feed trolls. (sigh). Ironic: adjective. 3. coincidental; unexpected: While I correctly used the phrase in the manner in which I learned it, it was ironic or unexpected and coincidental that the phraseology was incorrect as spoken in other dialects and regions.

Re:What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[Anonymous Coward]

And this conversation is about geoblocking, which is definitely a politicial-boundaries issue. So yes, US military base anywhere in the universe is US territory and the US Netflix should serve content there to US Netflix subscribers.

Re:What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[david_thornley]

Can't you make that at least something like

Is yu trying to provoked the Grammer nazi's?

Re:What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[ttucker]

Not in international waters.

Re:What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[Anonymous Coward]

so you're stuck with no way to tell someone you don't care.

No, there's a difference between I don't care and a superlative statement meaning there exists nothing that I care less about.

Re:What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[Anonymous Coward]

Guys like him are a diamond dozen.

Re: What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[Ramze]

That's not a good definition of ironic. Being incorrect while thinking you were correct just because that's how you learned it isn't irony --unless there's more to the story that you aren't telling us. Expecting to be right when you're in fact wrong alone isn't ironic. Otherwise we'd be drowning in irony every time we make a mistake.

If you had used "intensive" instead of the proper "intents an purposes" (which is a common mistake btw, no worries) while purporting to be an English professor who hates when people can't express themselves properly, THAT would have been irony. (because a snobby supposed know-it-all being wrong about something they should be an expert at is ironic)

Here's a better definition: "happening in the opposite way to what is expected, and typically causing wry amusement because of this."

A marriage counselor filing for divorce would be an example of one type of irony.

A lot of sarcasm is another form of irony -- b/c of the opposite meaning of the words said. There's also situational irony, dramatic irony, and others.

Re: What if you're on US "soil" abroad?

[mitcheli]

At some point we must realize that it is no longer worth arguing over. When we've reached a point that the generally accepted references available to validate the facts of the argument are no longer valid (please by all means, take that up with Dictionary.com). Then we've lost the ability to communicate. If you're dissatisfied with the use of 'ironic', or that 'for all intensive purposes' makes your skin crawl, then I pray that this weekend will be a joyful time for you. I pray that you'll enjoy some activity that will pull you away from Slashdot and allow yourself to have the ability to enjoy what you enjoy the most. Peace be to you and your family.

Now available globally anyway...

[hnodine]

Yesterday Netflix announced availability everywhere except for China. How is this a story?

Re:Now available globally anyway...

[110010001000]

Not all Netflix content is available in all markets. There is a workaround though: Bittorrent.

Re:Now available globally anyway...

[hnodine]

Probably right, living in the U.S. I think I have access to most of Netflix's content. Any idea how much content is available now that they have opened up in so many new markets?

Re:Now available globally anyway...

[Anonymous Coward]

not really. Canada has more current movies, Japan has newer anime, I have seen TV shows in Germany or Holland that they don't have on US Netflix.
It is really strange where you can see what content.

Re:Now available globally anyway...

[aurasdoom]

In european countries you get content that's on Hulu but not on Netflix US, and others from networks that don't stream on Netflix or Hulu. "Suits" comes to mind.

Re:Now available globally anyway...

[Midnight Thunder]

The anime one is interesting and shows how crazy some of these distribution agreements are. I have been watching 'Fairy Tail' on Netflix and it only goes up to episode 49, but on Crunchy Roll, you can't watch the episodes that are currently on Netflix, for this series. This means you need two subscriptions to watch the whole series.

This whole situation feels like going into one store to buy a series on Blu-Ray and then being told that you have to go to the other store to get the other half. This doesn't happen in brick and mortar stores, so why does it happen with online viewing sites?

This is not Netflix's problem to solve

[QuietLagoon]

The root cause of the problem is the ignorance-driven policies of the media content industries, who continue to deny that the world is getting smaller.

.
Media content industries who want to continue to live in the good ole days.

Media content providers who are so afraid of technology that they are unable and {gasp!} unwilling to leverage it for profit.

Re:This is not Netflix's problem to solve

[PPH]

Media distributors (not the content providers) make a pretty good buck dividing the world up into territories. And demanding a cut from the providers to do business in their town.

Pretty much like the mob used to do for garbage, cabs and contracting in places like New York City and Chicago.

Funny

[dyslexicbunny]

To me, that's a sign people want to watch whatever content and there's stupid bullshit in the way of making it a reality.

You'd think that's a sign that we'd just make all content universally available all at once so everyone can enjoy it and discuss it with likeminded people. But there are too many vested interests making that implausible. Sigh.

Re:Funny

[superposed]

You'd think that's a sign that we'd just make all content universally available all at once so everyone can enjoy it and discuss it with likeminded people.

Part of the problem is that "content providers" want to reserve the option to charge _less_ in poorer markets. For example, a lot of U.S. textbooks are sold in China and India at lower prices, albeit on cheaper paper and maybe with a Chinese cover. There is no legal obstacle to importing these books back to the U.S. and selling them at a lower price than U.S. textbooks. So with DVDs, they introduced a technical obstacle: preventing DVDs sold in one region from being played in players made for another region.

With streaming it may be the same thing -- don't allow a streaming account based in one region to be used in another region. I doubt Netflix offers lower-cost streaming accounts in India, but by now I the video producers have the bug for regional segregation.

Re:Funny

[whoever57]

Part of the problem is that "content providers" want to reserve the option to charge _less_ in poorer markets.

And more in other western countries.

Re:Funny

[tepples]

Or perhaps it's that the copyright owners sold long-term exclusive syndication rights to certain programs in certain regions many years ago, before Netflix Instant Watch was a thing.

Re:Funny

[Anonymous Coward]

Part of the problem is that "content providers" want to reserve the option to charge _less_ in poorer markets.

You what?

Maybe this is true for printed media, but everywhere I have been software and movies/DVDs/CDs are MORE expensive than the US. Certainly in my current country of New Zealand, media is much more expensive than it was in the US.

Re:Funny

[Ramze]

That's really odd considering that NZ is the same region code as Australia, Mexico, and all of South America for DVD and Blu Ray. A lot of new release Blu Rays are selling for about $15 US in Mexico (about 50% less than the same title in Region 1 USA/Canada). My guess is that shipping is a big factor... but, then again, they probably make those Blu Ray disks in Asia, so shipping to Oceania shouldn't be an issue.

Maybe NZ is just wealthy enough to pay more?!?!? Try buying from Mexico or Brazil on E-bay instead since you're the same region. :)

Take My Money!

[Anonymous Coward]

I pay for content when I can get it, honestly these services are MORE CONVENIENT than fiddling around with torrents / content streaming sites

Does the industry make more money by blocking content than not?? If so how???

Why even create a pirate economy? To sell DRM which is expensive and easily circumvented??

I don't understand it and I probably never will...

Re:Take My Money!

[txoof]

I pay for content when I can get it, honestly these services are MORE CONVENIENT than fiddling around with torrents / content streaming sites

Does the industry make more money by blocking content than not?? If so how???

Why even create a pirate economy? To sell DRM which is expensive and easily circumvented??

I don't understand it and I probably never will...

Yes, the industry does make more by blocking content. They do this by selling the rights to a show in each market at a value they perceive to be fair for that market. The owners of "Myth Busters" lease the rights to show it in Norway and the Netherlands on Discovery. Discovery wants **exclusive** rights to show the new episodes and whatever rerun deal they've worked out. If viewers in these markets get the show on demand via Netflix that would dilute the audience that Discovery is counting on and thereby decreases the revenue they generate. They are expecting a certain number of eyeballs and sell their advertising slots based on that number.

The owners of a show can negotiate for larger sums for exclusive rights than diluted rights. Not only does Discovery **want** exclusive rights, but they've paid for those rights. It's in the contract somewhere.

I'm pretty sure that sites like FlixSearch will put an end to all this regional nonsense in the near future. Using FlixSearch along with UnoTelly it is possible to find a show in any region and then dynamically switch to that region to watch it. Unless Netflix works out a way around this reliably, I don't see exclusive deals lasting into the future. They just won't be worth it.

Re:Take My Money!

[Anonymous Coward]

Well it's their own fault for sucking at their jobs so much that they created such a situation for themselves. Discovery doesn't simply license Myth busters, they bank roll it. They have exclusive rights to it in the same way Fox has exclusive rights to The Simpsons. Netflix wouldn't even have it available if Discovery hadn't licensed it to them.

This is just good all fashioned double dipping. They want exclusive broadcast rights, syndication rights, then back to exclusive broadcast rights again in "another market". Screw um.

Re:Take My Money!

[Anonymous Coward]

Bingo

The only way to combat piracy is to provide a better product. You can't compete with the price, so make the money worth spending

Netflix has everything sorted and searchable, with all the data filled out correctly. I've never once had to correct Netflix when it tried to attach Batman Begins information (and movie poster for selection) to Michael Keaton's Batman. And subtitles are always done right. With multiple language options, or none except when the characters speak something other than English. Works like a charm, every time.

Netflix also has native apps for basically everything. Sure, I can use the WiiU's web browser to view the Plex page and browse through the options ... but it's jankey as hell, using the slap-dash tablet interface to click and drag my way through thousands of movies, or trying to hit the letter along the right edge to skip down and .. ugh. The netflix app on the same device is well designed, easy to navigate, and fully integrated with all the buttons and such.

And you know what... all that is totally worth $8 a month. No question.

Content providers still get paid

[ZorinLynx]

It's amazing how much of a big deal they make about this, when they still get paid regardless of where you watch.

The content industry seems to put Netflix VPN users right up there with being bad as pirates! Umm, hello, they're still PAYING for their content. And the content owners are being paid, even if the path is different than it would be otherwise.

It's a big mess; we really need to start wiping out geographic barriers to content availability. One world, one internet.

License costs are set based on reach

[Anonymous Coward]

As far as I know, Netflix doesn't license per view. They pay to have a show on their service for a period of time for a target market (mostly on an individual country level). They pay a fixed price for it, no matter how many people actually watch it. This means, if they buy "broadcasting" rights for a show in the US, the price will be made to match the number of netflix subscriptions in the US. If netflix then makes the show available for everyone (when people start to use VPN), the cost per view is then reduced for them. So it means netflix only wins, by making content available outside of the target "area". If all content would automatically be made available worldwide, it would probably mean that the rights owner would (understandably) increase the price.

Re:License costs are set based on reach

[Anonymous Coward]

As far as I know...

So, the basis of your argument is complete speculation?

Re:License costs are set based on reach

[Anonymous Coward]

"The following observation is as the current scope of my aggregate knowledge" has an ambiguity point about first-hand data, but either way it's different from

"the current scope of my knowledge, none of which is evidence-based" (meaning the "knowledge" isn't)

Or is observation based on so-far known data still considered speculation? Because there's no vantage superior to the scope of one's knowledge. Philosophy actually suggests a daemon could have even faked that, one that has fed you everything you've "perceived".

Why should this be an issue for Netflix?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah I know the subject question is specious but seriously the way the summary is written is suggesting that Netflix SHOULD care other than because governments demand it...tell you what, make the government solved the technical problem of this blocking not Netflix...passing laws that are almost impossible to enforce or requires a private company to be your policeman is just wrong.

Netflix simply shouldn't care about their customer's use of a VPN, that's between the user & the government.

Oddly enough I use a VPN to *NOT* watch Netflix US

[GreatDrok]

Personally, I'm really into documentaries and the likes. The problem is Netflix US has all these utterly terrible american style docs which stop every five minutes to recap due to ad breaks which aren't there (in case you haven't seen them, the streamlined Mythbusters are a joy if you know where to get them because they chop out all this crap)

Anyway, Netflix UK has a lot more really good documentaries and since they're for UK viewers, particularly the BBC where there aren't adverts, you get a solid hour of really good information rather than 'Aliens' almost immediately followed by 'Before the break, Aliens'.

If Netflix can switch to a global model all the better but for now I have little choice but to pay a little extra to enable me to fully utilise the service because if I was stuck with the US version I don't think I would care enough to pay the monthly subscription.

VPN around Verizon throttling

[Anonymous Coward]

I live in the US and VPN around Verizon. Am I also a criminal?

Re:Oddly enough I use a VPN to *NOT* watch Netflix

[oldmac31310]

Watch BBC iPlayer with Chrome browser with Browsec switched to browsing from UK. Works great. Not nearly enough archive content available but beats the hell out of those Hitler Channel pseudo-documentaries. And then of course there is bit torrent...

Touched by his noodley appendage.

[truck_soccer]

Thank the starchy lord above that I share an account with the in-laws, because there are about 4 good things to stream on Netflix.

Re:Oddly enough I use a VPN to *NOT* watch Netflix

[SimonTheSoundMan]

Personally, I'm really into documentaries and the likes. The problem is Netflix US has all these utterly terrible american style docs which stop every five minutes to recap due to ad breaks which aren't there (in case you haven't seen them, the streamlined Mythbusters are a joy if you know where to get them because they chop out all this crap)

You'll enjoy this: That Mitchell and Webb Look - Gift Shop Sketch I'm looking for a gift for my aunt.

There is something they could do...

[PhunkySchtuff]

There is something they could do that's more effective than blocking by IP address - not that I want them to start doing this however...

Apple don't do any checking on your IP address, rather they check the billing address of your credit card. It's a lot more difficult for someone living overseas to get a credit card with a US billing address than it is to get a VPN.
Further, they must do some kind of monitoring of the usage of accounts that have a US billing address but the bulk of the content on the account is delivered to overseas IPs. Whilst they don't block it immediately, sooner or later they simply stop accepting that credit card as a valid payment method. It's not like the credit card is cancelled or blocked, as it still works perfectly for other online purchases, it's just that Apple stop accepting it (and don't really say why, other than it's not a valid payment method)

Netflix could quite easily implement checking the billing address on a credit card - this would possibly be even easier than trying to keep up with ever-changing lists of known VPN endpoint IP addresses. It will also stop more technical users who use something like Azure or AWS to roll their own VPN solution that has an endpoint that will not be on any list of known VPN addresses.

Re:There is something they could do...

[Anonymous Coward]

So hard...

https://www.usunlocked.com/

I wish Netflix would do this, actually. Then I could save the monthly fees for a VPN service. It would be a lot easier.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

It's still stupid

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm Canadian, living in Canada. When I signed up for Netflix, I bought a US preloaded credit card, because I wanted to make sure that even if Netflix gets silly about VPNs, I'm protected.

US preload credit cards are very easy to get your hands on. Now you're verified as an American! Heck, I would actually *like* for Netflix to stop fighting VPNs and go with where the credit card is from. It would make it so much easier to get US Netflix.

Whatever solution they go with, unless they get very extreme with it (like, for example, US satellite TV services do, requesting SSNs, requiring their techs to visit you on site, etc) getting US Netflix will only get easier if other methods than geolocation are used. And if they get extreme with it, once you get past whatever method they use (And there's ways around all the methods, for example, you can get a valid US SSN [well, ITIN] by simply asking for one, you don't have to be a resident. Of course, the SSN you are given is illegal to use for getting a job in the US. But they will hand them out anytime.) it only makes getting US Netflix *easier* once you've bypassed the method.

Once bypassed, you'd be watching US netflix anywhere without even needing the expense or hassle of a VPN that might not even work if the internet in your locale sucks (eg: China).

TOS fatigue

[epine]

My preferred local video rental store (still in business as of last week) has 10,000 distinct titles in their back catalog (yes, most of them in archaeamorphic DVD). Any three titles $7 for a week.

Chugging them back on due date: kind of a pain in the ass.

Blowing off this entire discussion thread: all kinds of priceless.

I have a list of 500 highly regarded movies we have already watched, and another 250 highly regarded movies pending in my watch queue. I never come away from the video store with less than three movies from my WQ top ten, and more often than not, it's a perfect three-bagger.

Kind of like the book compared to the e-book. Books actually worked pretty well for a long time, and they still rock compared to e-books if the conversation involves Sony or Amazon, just to name two companies at the beheading head of another personal queue.

Wait

[Anonymous Coward]

So Netflix blocks known VPN IP addresses, which then prevents legitimate VPN customers in those countries from connecting to Netflix?

I couldn't agree more

[Anonymous Coward]

A niece of mine uses my account and if that weren't the case: (a) she wouldn't get an account of her own (under 18; her parents wouldn't pay) and (b) I probably wouldn't bother having my account. I don't use it often enough to justify my alone having it.

I'm grandfathered in with two screens for 7.99 until May. Thereafter I will spend the extra 2.00 to go to 9.99.

wanted: content in different languages

[hindumagic]

I wonder how many people that circumvent the geoblocking are doing so because they want their content in a different language? My wife is from Brazil and we are trying to raise our kids to be bilingual. My daughter complains occasionally, but she only gets Netflix from Brazil in portuguese. It is great for her comprehension and cultural appreciation, being exposed to mostly that for her (limited) screentime. It would be great if they offered all possible languages for their programming. I would pay extra for that option, rather than paying extra for a dns spoofing service. This also applies to subtitles!

Not Ironic!

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, that's NOT IRONIC!
Unless you were trying sarcasm...

Re:Sherlock on BBC iPlayer

[Anonymous Coward]

May I ask which VPN are you using? Most of the ones I see are around $5 a month, and while that isn't a huge amount, it does add up...

You got hit with VAT

[tepples]

Or my favorite, Steam will change the price on me during a sale when I'm in Europe and I have to pay %20 more.

Sales tax in Europe is on the order of 20 percent and typically included in prices. Also commonly included are the cost of translating the manual and the cost of a longer product warranty where applicable.

Re:Oddly enough I use a VPN to *NOT* watch Netflix

[mjwx]

Anyway, Netflix UK has a lot more really good documentaries and since they're for UK viewers, particularly the BBC where there aren't adverts

This and it's not just the Beeb that produces good doco's.

I didn't understand why I've never seen a PBS produced documentary before Netflix... I watched one and found out not only was it preceded by the electronic equivalent of pan handling but the quality was terrible.

Finally, I remember watching a US produced documentary called "WWII in HD" when it should have been called "America in WWII in HD". The British were mentioned as an afterthought, the Australians were mentioned once and the Russians were completely forgotten in 10 x 1 hour episodes.

Eggcorn Alert!

[DesertNomad]

http://grammarist.com/eggcorns...

Depends on how the contract handles enclaves

[tepples]

Unless the geographic restriction in the license from the film's copyright owner was to the effect "the United States and any foreign diplomatic or military territory completely surrounded thereby". Then use on a military base would have fallen into "Afghanistan and any foreign diplomatic or military territory completely surrounded thereby".

Response to Smartflix?

[fgouget]

Interestingly Smartflix has gotten quite a bit of press in France recently...

Neflix just screwed those serving their country

[Anonymous Coward]

For all of us stuck here in this damn dust bowl called Afghanistan Netflix screwed everyone of us. Don't want to let the United States military serving in Afghanistan or Iraq to have too many comforts from home, or any at all. We all pay for our damn Netflix account out here, they take our money every month and now they say we can't use our account. Well let me tell you something, out here with the internet you'd be a damn fool if you didn't run it thru a VPN so you can access your bank and pay your bills. The network is so shady out here and they charge a fortune for some of the crappiest internet speed you'll ever see. And now Netflix goes and blocks those of us serving out here who are away from our families and home. Well why don't they skip their happy ass over here then and do our job. I'd rather be at home enjoying my family any ways. But I guess I'll just have to be satisfied with cancelling my Netflix account and telling them to go screw themselves from all the soldiers who got screwed by them today.

Re:Neflix just screwed those serving their country

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey there little dude.

You're a bit confused, and directing your anger in the wrong direction. The ones you need to be bitching at are the movie industry cartel criminal scumbags, and NOT Netflix.

If they were serious

[Anonymous Coward]

...they'd just tie your account in with your country of residence. I, for example, live in Canada and pay via credit card every month. The fact that I've been connecting to Netflix via a VPN that runs on a VPS in a Chicago data center wouldn't matter a bit if they used a field in my account instead of a geo lookup of my ip address to determine what country I'm in.

This, of course, would lead to other issues, like an overnight popup industry of Netflix address placeholders, but it would at least temporarily shut down the people who want to enjoy the full Netflix catalogue but who are fucked over by shitty local content agreements. It would have an added bonus of not fucking over people like Comcast subscribers who are forced to use a VPN to be able to view Netflix.

The bottom line really is: fuck the greedy pieces of dog shit who run the movie industry. I often wish cancer on them, and you should too.