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California Bill Would Require Phone Crypto Backdoors

Trailrunner7 writes with this except from On The Wire: A week after a New York legislator introduced a bill that would require smartphone vendors to be able to decrypt users' phones on demand from law enforcement, a California bill with the same intent has been introduced in that state's assembly. On Wednesday, California Assemblyman Jim Cooper submitted a bill that has remarkably similar language to the New York measure and would require that device manufacturers and operating system vendors such as Apple, Samsung, and Google be able to decrypt users' devices. The law would apply to phones sold in California beginning Jan. 1, 2017. Of course, "smartphone vendors" wouldn't be able to decrypt voice calls sent using VoIP software that was encrypted outside their domain of influence.

154 of 251 comments (clear)

  1. Only needs to be *sold* without encryption by The-Ixian · · Score: 5, Informative

    During initial set up, flip on encryption... there you go, you can have that one for free Apple...

    --
    My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    1. Re:Only needs to be *sold* without encryption by The-Ixian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Also, the vendor could encrypt something of no consequence with reversible encryption. Then, when the phone gets back to them, they can say truthfully that they decrypted it. Oh wait, you wanted the user's data? Oh, that is encrypted with their own system... we don't have access to that...

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    2. Re:Only needs to be *sold* without encryption by master5o1 · · Score: 2

      Heh, reversibly encrypt the call log data. They already have access to the call log through the mobile service provider.

      --
      signature is pants
    3. Re:Only needs to be *sold* without encryption by drunk_punk · · Score: 1

      I think it's much more realistic that, as soon as you generate any kind of encryption key, that key gets sent to the vendor and DHS. Wouldn't be that difficult to do as long as you've got Google and Apple on board. One OTA firmware push...done.

    4. Re:Only needs to be *sold* without encryption by sumdumass · · Score: 2

      What would stop third-party encryption? I mean other than warranty support and so on.

    5. Re:Only needs to be *sold* without encryption by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      During initial set up, flip on encryption... there you go, you can have that one for free Apple...

      Even if they close that loophole (which it looks like the current proposals do) an even simpler way is to just not carry them in stores in those states. So you just take online orders and ship from states without these laws. And if that's not practical, (i.e. they need foot traffic in the stores) just have two separate SKUs: One for NY/CA, and another for everywhere else. If those people want an uncompromised device, they can just order from elsewhere, and electronics stores would operate kind of like Tesla showrooms when it comes to smartphones.

    6. Re: Only needs to be *sold* without encryption by chaboud · · Score: 1

      It all gets done on device. Every keystroke, touch, file, and secure key (vendor owns the trusted execution environment, too) is subject to exposure. If this were to hold, it would be bad.

      What if you weren't allowed to use encryption online? Or if your front door had to use a federally approved lock for which law enforcement officers had the key?

      This is a cynical (and worryingly effective) attempt to use "terrorists" as an excuse to grossly erode civil liberties.

      So, yeah, fuck this guy.

    7. Re:Only needs to be *sold* without encryption by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      Even if they close that loophole (which it looks like the current proposals do) an even simpler way is to just not carry them in stores in those states.

      That's not going to happen. I admit it would be effective, though.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    8. Re:Only needs to be *sold* without encryption by sl149q · · Score: 1

      Apple could easily afford to simply move their operations outside of California. Now *that* would be an interesting threat.

      Wonder what Oregon or Washington or Nevada would offer Apple to relocate?

  2. Not for sale in the state of California. by sims+2 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Wouldn't be the first time you couldn't buy something in CA.

    --
    Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
    1. Re:Not for sale in the state of California. by twotacocombo · · Score: 3, Informative

      CA is too big of a market to lose, so they'll just make 49-state and CA-only SKUs, as they have with cars, motorcycles, lawnmowers, weedwhackers, etc, due to CARB and their fuckstickery. We even have CA-only guns (M&P Shield CA-compliant model comes to mind). Nothing new to see here, comrades.

    2. Re:Not for sale in the state of California. by Firethorn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      By the same token, California would also be a good spot to have a 'hold the line moment'. Warn all the consumers that new phones won't be available there after Jan 1, 2017. Watch the state explode when people realize they can't get the latest and greatest phones. The bill would be yanked so quickly...

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    3. Re:Not for sale in the state of California. by sims+2 · · Score: 1

      I'm sure the cell phone co's would be happy air commercials and to post ad's in their windows.

      It's just like any time the gov't says anything about guns. Sales are boosted.

      --
      Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
    4. Re:Not for sale in the state of California. by Saithe · · Score: 1

      That would be the ballsy move, and the correct one.

    5. Re:Not for sale in the state of California. by dgatwood · · Score: 2

      It would. Unfortunately, I have little faith in Apple having the cojones to make that move, and unfortunately, they're the only ones who could. Google might try, but I don't think they have the ability to stop all the other Android manufacturers from selling weakened phones in California, so anything they could do would have minimal impact.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    6. Re:Not for sale in the state of California. by sims+2 · · Score: 1

      No one seems to care about truth in advertising especially online? Have you seen the ads? "goverment wants to ban this flashlight" "get your flamethrowers now before they are banned" "new bill introduced to ban assult weapons buy your 1,000 round drums now!" "3d printers used to manufacture guns get them now before they are banned"
      "Unlimited data, talk and text on the 4g lte t-mobile network"
      "Unlimted data on att's 4g lte network"
      "Hulu now ad free"

      I trust the companies to do what is most profitable and this is something their advertising dept can make a day of.

      Sure they would sell us out later down the line too but if they can say a few words and scare people into buying phones yes I have no doubts they would be happy to do it.

      --
      Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
    7. Re:Not for sale in the state of California. by QuestorTapes · · Score: 1

      Actually, Apple might do this. Anyone in California who wants an Apple iPhone can go over the state line and pick one up, or have a friend or family member in another state pick it up and send it.
      After gangs starts running truckloads of illegal Apple iPhones into California (easy enough to do), and California regulators are taking flack for all this inconvenience and extra cost, they'd most likely back down.
      Especially in California, where it's easy for the citizens put a bill on the ballot to repeal this law.

    8. Re:Not for sale in the state of California. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Look at all the gun sales Obama has inspired, considering that his massive plan to confiscate guns is to devote some more resources to enforcing certain existing laws that most gun owners don't seem to mind that much.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    9. Re:Not for sale in the state of California. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Once Apple comes out with a surveillance-compatible iPhone, they're screwed. Other jurisdictions will start requiring it, and Apple will be trapped into selling only the back-doored ones. If Apple sticks to its encryption, it can discourage governments from banning iPhones.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  3. Playing the game again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Don't see a (R) after a politician's name? Must be a Democrat. Want to see if I'm right?

    DING! Winner winner chicken dinner.

    Not that both big parties aren't corrupt as hell, but this is such a petty affectation...

    1. Re:Playing the game again by Tulsa_Time · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Funny how you never see the "D" next to their name in stories like this....

      --
      5 out of 6 people enjoy Russian Roulette & 6 out of 7 Dwarfs are not Happy
    2. Re:Playing the game again by erapert · · Score: 2

      Yes, that's what the GP was pointing out.

    3. Re:Playing the game again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's because if a Democrat does it, all politicians are bad especially Republicans, so there's no need to show the affiliation. If a Republican does it, all Republicans are bad and we need to make sure that everyone knows which party is to blame.

    4. Re:Playing the game again by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 2

      I have always figured that the reason they don't tell you the party affiliation when its a Democrat is because that isn't news, everyone knows that Democrats are petty, corrupt, authoritarian politicians. However, when a Republican does it, it is an exception and therefore news. OK, I don't really believe the latter part of that, but the press clearly does. Otherwise, what possible reason would they have for only mentioning party affiliation when its about a Republican?

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    5. Re: Playing the game again by omnichad · · Score: 1, Troll

      The difference is that Democrats want the federal government to have the power. Republicans want big business to have that much power.

    6. Re: Playing the game again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Really? Is that why Republicans keep pushing for their own forms of their supposedly hated Sharia Law? Is that why they keep on trying to make sure women can't control their own bodies? Because they like small government and want to leave people alone? Because it sure doesn't seem like they want to leave us alone.

    7. Re: Playing the game again by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      Is that why they keep on trying to make sure women can't control their own bodies?

      Is this in reference to that Sandra Fluke thing? Because she made it sound as though birth control pills just have way too much of a cost burden, therefore the government MUST give away other people's money NOW, which was stupid considering that even planned parenthood sells them for about $10-$15 for a month supply, which is about a typical copay that most people pay for generic drugs anyways. (Not only that, but Fluke herself was retarded for going for a law degree, because there's some 4 times as many lawyers graduating per year than there is an actual economic demand for new ones. Given that she recently lost a political election I wouldn't be surprised if she's, for the most part, currently unemployed.)

    8. Re:Playing the game again by Swampash · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's cute how you imply that there's a difference between (D) and (R).

    9. Re:Playing the game again by cfalcon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      He's not. He's implying that when stories come down that involve (R) doing something shitty, it's next to their name, and when (D) do something shitty, it's usually not. You don't have to believe that the parties are different- just that the reporting / summary / writing / whatever is slanted when you see that shit.

    10. Re:Playing the game again by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      It's sad that you don't realize there are differences in the policies you'll get from (D) vs (R).

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    11. Re:Playing the game again by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Was this determined statistically, or is it confirmation bias?

    12. Re:Playing the game again by drkstr1 · · Score: 1

      Yea, two very different sides of the same shit sandwich. That's why our generation doesn't vote. We ain't stupid anymore.

      --
      Fanboy Status: Apache Flex, C#, Eclipse, KDE, Pirate Party, Ron Paul, Slackware, Windows 7
    13. Re: Playing the game again by Alumoi · · Score: 1

      And what's the difference? Want to be successful in the US? Buy a couple of politicians.

    14. Re:Playing the game again by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Typically the (R) platform is supposed to be against doing specific shitty things so when they do the opposite it's news. They push "small government" and extra freedom, unless it's about what people get up to in bedrooms or with reproduction then it's vastly reduced freedom. That and being "strong" by picking on the weak, which is not what the (R) party used to be about.
      I don't have a dog in the fight so don't blame me. I just find it utterly strange, among other things, that an icon of crony capitalism is being put forward as being the answer to crony capitalism. It would all make far more sense if Trump was on Hillary's payroll to fuck up the (R) chances but of course reality is far weirder than that.

    15. Re: Playing the game again by omnichad · · Score: 1

      It's about as big a difference between Republicans and Democrats - not much, really.

    16. Re:Playing the game again by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have gotten any sort of health care reform (even a lame one) or marriage rights under Republicans. There are differences, and I still prefer the Democrats, but there isn't nearly as much difference as I'd like. I'd like to see some major anti-Big-Brother party, personally.

      This doesn't apply to the current election campaign, of course, but over time that sort of thing tends to even out.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  4. California Democrat Outlaws Math by Tulsa_Time · · Score: 1

    Film at 11 Next the law of gravity will be repealed. Then for good measure we will print money out of thin air... oh wait, we do that already.

    --
    5 out of 6 people enjoy Russian Roulette & 6 out of 7 Dwarfs are not Happy
  5. The next step will be.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Next, they will criminalize possession of a phone or other device containing any encrypted data that cannot be decrypted on demand, without assistance from the possessor.

    (When strong and safe encryption is outlawed, only outlaws will have strong and safe encryption.)

  6. Re:Corrupt politicians by turkeydance · · Score: 3, Interesting

    the NSA probably paid nothing. the vendors "paid nothing" as well. this is a $hakedown of the vendors. campaign donations or else.

  7. Re:First guns, now smartphones. by aaron4801 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Encryption is known to the State of California to cause cancer.

  8. Is it too much to ask by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If the topic of a post is about a proposed legislative bill, is it really so difficult for a news organization (or even a lowly Slashdot submitter) to provide a link to said bill so that there might be at least a small chance of informed (hahahahaha) discourse over the particulars?

    No, I'm not new here.

  9. So. by rmdingler · · Score: 1

    The new phones must come equipped with the California admissions package.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

    1. Re:So. by Anomalyst · · Score: 1

      The new phones must come equipped with the California admissions package.

      What will their owners be forced to admit?

      --
      There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
  10. I can't wait... by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

    for the decryption keys to get stolen. Saying, "I told you so, you fucking retard," never gets old.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re: I can't wait... by TheReaperD · · Score: 1

      Republicans are even more adamant about this than Democrats. They just know that in California, if they want a bill to actually pass, a Democrat must put it up for vote as almost anything they put up is shot down on principal.

      --
      "Be particularly skeptical when presented with evidence confirming what you already believe." -
    2. Re: I can't wait... by _Sharp'r_ · · Score: 1

      I can think of at least on prominent Republican who is against it.

      The story is about NY and CA. You don't get more Democrat than that. It's not like they'll pass anything without the Dems.

      If the Republicans are worse, we'd see similar bills across the GOP-controlled states, yet we don't. Republicans aren't perfect, for sure, but wake up a bit to the Dems, eh?

      --
      The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
    3. Re: I can't wait... by fnj · · Score: 1

      The story is about NY and CA. You don't get more Democrat than that.

      Yes you do. Massachusetts is WAY more Democrat than either.

      The California state senate is currently 26 D and 14 R, and the assembly is 52 D and 28 R. The New York state senate is 29 D and 31 R, and the assembly is 104 D and 49 R.

      The Massachusetts state senate is currently 34 D and 6 R, and the house is 125 D and 35 R. It's been completely farcical for a long time. And what that doesn't even tell you is that the R's are completely whipped. They never even make a peep. About anything. in fact almost every one of them is liberal. It doesn't get much more blatantly sold-out one-party rule than Massachusetts.

      Any other complete misconceptions I can help you with?

    4. Re: I can't wait... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Another thing - Rand Paul I can sort of understand people listening to even though he can't get anything done, but tollbooth guy? Why is Christie being considered for anything other than being thrown out the door and never put in a position of trust ever again? Why should we care that he supports a backdoor when we already know he's not fit for office?

    5. Re: I can't wait... by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      I can think of at least on prominent Republican who is against it. [washingtontimes.com]

      I'd say, and guess many Republicans also think that Rand Paul is a RINO. No, not a Democrat in disguise, but mildly-lite libertarian who is running as a Republican because to get anywhere in the US you have to belong to one of the two giant dominant political parties, and the Ds are more hostile towards libertarianism than the Rs.

      Just like Bernie Sanders is a democratic socialist who is running as a Democrat out of convenience.

  11. Re:Corrupt politicians by DaHat · · Score: 1

    How fortunate for these candidates opponents who will soon be receiving contributions in response.

  12. FeinSwine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I can't find the bill text. Is Feinstein a co sponsor, I bet so.

    Didn't we win this battle in 1991?

    1. Re:FeinSwine by nytes · · Score: 2

      Feinstein is a senator in D.C.

      This is being introduced in the state assembly (essentially the equivalent of the House of Representatives, but at the state level).

      --
      -- I have monkeys in my pants.
    2. Re: FeinSwine by TheReaperD · · Score: 1

      Umm... did you fail civics? She is a member of the US Senate, not the California Senate. This is a California state bill. She has no official say in the matter.

      --
      "Be particularly skeptical when presented with evidence confirming what you already believe." -
  13. The land of the free? by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Land of the free? Home of the brave? How's that working out for you?

    Oh, wait, is it brave to cower in the corner jumping at shadows in case the bogeyman comes along? I've lost track?

    Now cue a bunch of people telling us how they're still free. Go ahead, I love a good laugh.

    Papers please, comrade. If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:The land of the free? by nytes · · Score: 1

      California is to the U.S. as Italy or Greece is to the E.U. It's pretty much ungovernable and fails its citizens regularly. Our legislature is ruled by a single party with little input from the other, and they openly debate about how they can leverage various crises to make people vote for tax increases.

      --
      -- I have monkeys in my pants.
    2. Re:The land of the free? by jandjmh · · Score: 1

      Except we have substantial oil resources (and our no-so-liberal governor has had no interest in killing fracking), some of the largest agricultural exports of high value crops in the world, a budget surplus and a growing rainy day fund, silicon valley, world leading genetic engineering companies, a huge aerospace and defense industry, and universities like Stanford, Cal Tech, the whole UC system etc.

      Not so much like Italy or Greece ...

    3. Re:The land of the free? by nytes · · Score: 2

      We have one of the largest economies in the world, but we also have $450 billion in debt.

      --
      -- I have monkeys in my pants.
    4. Re:The land of the free? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Sure thing, you keep telling yourself it's only California, and that these things are unique to them and their wacky ways.

      And then look at how much the rest of America will happily bend over and take it as other governments do the same thing.

      Blah blah blah ... I stand by my point ... land of the free is becoming a bad joke.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    5. Re:The land of the free? by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      You may now have large exports of agricultural crops but to get those you're pumping so much water out of the ground that it's subsiding so much that bridges and roads need to be replaced. Exactly how sustainable in the long term do you think that is?

    6. Re:The land of the free? by hambone142 · · Score: 1

      Let's pull out the old "if it'll save one child's life, it will be worth it".

    7. Re:The land of the free? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Except we have substantial oil resources (and our no-so-liberal governor has had no interest in killing fracking)

      Don't worry, the Saudis are killing that off by pushing the price down far enough to drive out anybody doing anything more expensive than drilling a hole in the sand.

    8. Re:The land of the free? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Guess which part of the National Anthem I haven't sung in over a decade. I'd really like to be able to feel honest about singing those lines.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  14. Leave it to an ex-cop by Mal-2 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Leave it to an ex-cop to seek powers for law enforcement at the cost of individuals. I am disappoint. Not the least bit surprised, but disappoint. If this passes, I would be completely in favor of both Apple and Google saying "screw you guys, we're picking a new home".

    --
    How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
    1. Re:Leave it to an ex-cop by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      Since when has Apple or Google actually been noticeably affected by US law? They certainly don't have to send their money to the US government, why would they have to obey some silly California state law?

      I'd love to see the state government threaten them. Sorry, I meant, "try and threaten them".

    2. Re:Leave it to an ex-cop by Mal-2 · · Score: 1

      They won't... if they sell off their California assets and move out of state.

      --
      How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
  15. Re:Fuck it i'm voting republican by erapert · · Score: 2

    Don't just vote Republican. Vote for someone who has a record of keeping promises to increase our liberty and decrease government power, taxation, and spending.

  16. China would be so proud! by Bamfarooni · · Score: 2

    China would be so proud!

  17. Doesn't matter by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

    None of it matters when you have no idea what the SIM card is doing or the GSM radio. Both run operating systems we have no clues about the capabilities of.

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    1. Re:Doesn't matter by cheater512 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      'Operating System' is giving it a bit more credit.

      And the protocol between the SIM and the phone is public, well known and very simple.
      You can see exactly what it's doing.

  18. Re:Technically feasible, probably already done. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    as anybody else noticed that the whole android O/S is running as a virtual instance under your telephone's SIM architecture?

    What does that sentence even mean?

  19. Re: More proof the Republicans rule CA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    I work with about a 120 people at a startup in downtown SF, and we have 4 known Republicans. They've infested everything here.

  20. Re:Hmmm by v1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If this theoretically passed and you buy a cellphone from another state or country but use it on a plan in California, and the phone doesn't support decryption, would that work?

    "The law would apply to phones sold in California beginning Jan. 1, 2017"

    So, that'd be OK. They don't block possession, use, or carrier registration, just sales by vendors that are located in the state. This may also prevent mail-order purchase from the Apple Store in say, Michigan, because Apple has a "business presence" in California. (collection of sales tax usually works that way) OTOH if you get one off ebay from someone whose store is outside CA, you're fine.

    I'd personally like to see Apple very publicly give the finger to the CA legislature and make it extremely clear in very blunt terms that iPhones not being for sale there is the direct and exclusive result of the residents of the state electing retards and shills to make their laws. Losing CA for a year or two won't hurt them much, and will pay off big in the long run for future sales in CA as the voters stomp to the polls to vote with their iphones.

    This isn't like most of the "extreme" legislation they pass on things like emissions, product safety, and other consumer protection. The public gets NO direct or clear benefit from this legislation, and results in a noticeable impact to a huge portion of the voters in the state. The legislature will try to justify it of course, but there just isn't enough spin available to keep that top from falling on its face.

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
  21. Re:First guns, now smartphones. by reboot246 · · Score: 1

    I'm hoping that one day there won't even be a California.
    Still praying for that massive earthquake!!

  22. Please call or email this idiot? by kheldan · · Score: 1

    I'm not in this guy's district so his stupid web page won't accept my comments, could someone who is in his district please call or email and explain to this guy why what he wants to do will just make law-abiding citizens less secure, not aid law enforcement in any substantial way, and in the end only help criminals and terrorists? Thanks.

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    1. Re:Please call or email this idiot? by ewhac · · Score: 1
      Unfortunately, Jim Cooper's district is in California's central valley, between Sacramento and Stockton. Not the middle of nowhere, but not exactly the center of high-tech, either.

      Your best bet would be to contact the Assemblyman for your own district, inform them of this odious bill, and instruct them to oppose it.

    2. Re:Please call or email this idiot? by kheldan · · Score: 1

      Already did that, and the appropriate State Senator. Just would rather someone (or a group of someones) pull this Copper guy up short.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    3. Re:Please call or email this idiot? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Is there a postal address? There is a service to send dead tree slices to other people, and it will be more convincing (because of representing more effort) than something electronic.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  23. Re: More proof the Republicans rule CA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Sounds like Mozilla. They didn't do adequate background checks before promoting someone, and it was later discovered he contributed a massive amount of money($100 IIRC) to a Republican group.

  24. Re:Hmmm by sims+2 · · Score: 1

    I figure it would be treated the same as a non carb compliant engine. Perfectly legal to own just not to buy or sell.

    --
    Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
  25. Re:Apple by zippthorne · · Score: 1

    And this won't just affect New York and California. Smartphone manufacturers won't produce separate systems for states that require encryption backdoors and those that don't.

    I agree that they probably won't produce separate hardware, or even separate operating systems, but I'd say the jury is still out on whether they'd produce parameterized software with a "pretend encryption" / "real encryption" flag set depending on what state the device is intended to be sold in.

    --
    Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  26. Won't Stop TRUE bad guys. by BoRegardless · · Score: 2

    This just catches the low level criminals and normal people. Mafia, KGB & Israeli Mossad will just use older iPhones and other methods.

    1. Re:Won't Stop TRUE bad guys. by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Think long term.... what are these people going to be using in 15 to 20 years time? If the kinds of tech that could get around this are outlawed now, then it will become increasingly difficult to acquire as the years go by.... as standards evolve and change, older hardware will probably eventually cease to be interoperable with the more current communication technologies.

      Of course, I'm aware that I am probably giving the people who would come up with this kind of bill proposal far more credit than they deserve.

    2. Re:Won't Stop TRUE bad guys. by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      So you are saying that a sound investment may actually be modern high end smartphones that are kept in pristine condition then.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    3. Re: Won't Stop TRUE bad guys. by mark-t · · Score: 1

      I believe that you overestimate both the intelligence and resolve, as well as greatly underestimate the apathy of the general population.

  27. Re:Fuck it i'm voting republican by nytes · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately the Republican party in California is so dysfunctional that they couldn't nominate a viable candidate for dog catcher. They'd have to go to the Democratic party and ask them who they should put on the ballot.

    I'd like to know what kind of reception this bill is getting from the other assembly members.

    --
    -- I have monkeys in my pants.
  28. Re:First guns, now smartphones. by The-Ixian · · Score: 2

    Yeah.... but if even *one* Californian makes it to the Nevada shore... the cycle will start all over again...

    --
    My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
  29. In related news... by seven+of+five · · Score: 2

    Lawmakers pass a bill declaring pi = 3, saving the world many thousands of hours of tedious calculation. Hooray!

  30. Rethink your next US cell phone by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    With the OS having root over any keystrokes before "encryption apps" and a company having designer links in CA.
    Re: "ecrypted and unlocked by its manufacturer or operating system vendor" would be covered by laws like the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA)...
    As for devices been super secure, recall the years of news about "Cops Say They Can Access Encrypted Emails (January 11, 2016 )
    https://motherboard.vice.com/r...
    Note the access news going back a few years...

    Also recall the issue of why any backdoors are really bad for any nations telco system:
    SISMI-Telecom scandal, an illegal domestic surveillance program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... and the
    Greek wiretapping case 2004–05 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...–05
    Weaken any encryption and any staff, ex mil, ex staff, ex contractor, former telco or gov staff, other nations staff, anyone with skills or the cash can get the same deep access...

    Also note the news from Australia about who gets that no court needed "law enforcement" role long term locally.
    61 agencies apply for metadata access (18/01/2016)
    https://delimiter.com.au/2016/...
    "... a comprehensive list of agencies which had applied to receive accreditation as enforcement agencies under the Telecommunications (Interception and Access) Act, which will give them access to make metadata requests."

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  31. Not necessarily... by mark-t · · Score: 1

    Of course, "smartphone vendors" wouldn't be able to decrypt voice calls sent using VoIP software that was encrypted outside their domain of influence.

    Such software would be outlawed, clearly.... it won't stop people who expressly want it from getting it, but it creates a barrier for entry such that most law-abiding and not very technologically competent people will simply not want to be bothered with the inconvenience of bypassing it.

    Of course, in the end, the only people that they will be able to spy on are the people who haven't cared enough about their privacy to worry about it and are probably not doing something that the feds are trying to catch anyways, which means that it will do absolute diddly at helping law enforcement.

  32. I'd give it two weeks, tops by raymorris · · Score: 1

    > I'd personally like to see Apple very publicly give the finger to the CA legislature and make it extremely clear in very blunt terms that iPhones not being for sale there is the direct and exclusive result of the residents of the state electing retards and shills to make their laws. Losing CA for a year or two won't hurt them much, and will pay off big in the long run for future sales in CA as the voters stomp to the polls to vote with their iphones.

    You say a year or two, I'm thinking it would take a week or two for Californians to get awfully pissed as they're told "sorry, it's illegal in California to sell you a smartphone. The only people who can change that are your state reps; here are there phone numbers."

    1. Re:I'd give it two weeks, tops by dead_user · · Score: 1

      The cynic in me thinks that rather than call their congressman, Californians would be calling Apple demanding a phone that was legal in their state.

    2. Re:I'd give it two weeks, tops by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      I agree with you about people calling Apple but the problem is that once the companies comply the first time for any of these laws anywhere then it opens the floodgates and they will have to comply to all of them. Then we're all screwed.

    3. Re:I'd give it two weeks, tops by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Apple has a long history of ignoring what people say they want and trying to pay attention to what they really will want once they know it exists, and has had surprising success at it. They also have passed up millions of sales by not going into the low end of any market. If any company can hang tough, it's Apple.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    4. Re:I'd give it two weeks, tops by dead_user · · Score: 1

      You know what? You're right. I do hope they hang tough.

  33. Re:First guns, now smartphones. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Yeah.... but if even *one* Californian makes it to the Nevada shore... the cycle will start all over again...

    Typical /.-er. More likely it will take one male Californian and one *female* Californian...

  34. Back door for Criminals by EEPROMS · · Score: 1

    The issue politicians forget is when you add back doors to devices you are also adding a back door for criminals and other foreign entities. The reality is government departments are rubbish at securing information for an extended period and once the information is out every criminal and foreign government now has a free pass to all your citizens private information. Also just saying there is a back door alerts criminals and they will start looking for that back door.

    1. Re: Back door for Criminals by omnichad · · Score: 2

      Just wait until they figure out that this enables hackers to ransom/post photos of them with their mistress.

    2. Re:Back door for Criminals by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Politicians don't forget that a back door is a back door; they either never realized it or don't care anyway.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  35. Re:Corrupt politicians by gweihir · · Score: 1

    Naaa, the NSA probably just has some juicy dirt on them. That is how it works in a surveillance-state. No surprises here. Expect full-blown fascism in, say, 20-30 years or so.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  36. Re:Corrupt politicians by sabri · · Score: 1

    How fortunate for these candidates opponents who will soon be receiving contributions in response.

    Yes, especially since he was elected with a staggering 50,188 votes, with his opponent receiving 40,220 votes (source). So, less than 10.000 farmers in California got him his seat. Shouldn't be too difficult to get him out at his next election.

    --
    I'm not a complete idiot... Some parts are missing.
  37. ISIS to the rescue by BradMajors · · Score: 1

    ISIS has just release a new Android encryption App:

    http://www.defenseone.com/tech...

    There is no prohibition in this law against using encryption applications. ISIS will help you get around California's encryption laws.

  38. Re: Technically feasible, probably already done. by omnichad · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When I take out my SIM card, my phone still boots.

  39. Crypto with a backdoor is not crypto by RichMan · · Score: 1

    Unless both a mathematician and sociologist working together can show in a hard proof that crypto with a backdoor is as secure as crypto alone I maintain that crypto with a back door is not crypto so the request is impossible to fulfil and simply moot.

    Like the lawmakers that tried to make PI = 22/7 the request is simply a violation of reality, proving once again the politicians have no concept of reality.

    1. Re:Crypto with a backdoor is not crypto by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Much crypto can be broken, back door or no, provided someone is willing to put the resources in, and it's less so nowadays than previously. Crypto that can be broken is crypto, so what the law attempts to prohibit is good crypto, something like the export controls on crypto a while back, or the NSA insisting that 56 bits of entropy was fine for DES.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  40. Re: More proof the Republicans rule CA by tnk1 · · Score: 1

    You can't Think Different, if you think differently. That would mess up the brand message. Duh.

  41. Works good against average people by OrangeTide · · Score: 4, Interesting

    But fails to penetrate a device used by organized crime, terrorists, a technologically adept pedophile, or a well connected businessman.

    Is Joe the Plumber the threat here? because that's about all this regulation will stop.

    PS - I usually buy my smartphones on aliexpress and import them to California.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re:Works good against average people by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Is Joe the Plumber the threat here? because that's about all this regulation will stop.

      Yes, actually, the police want to be able to decrypt phones from 'average' dumb criminals. They also want terrorist phones, but that is not the only issue.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re:Works good against average people by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      Average dumb criminals tend to make more mistakes than leaving some incriminating txts around. I think the cops are getting lazy and aren't willing to do old fashion detective work anymore, because most of these idiot criminals brag about their crimes to anyone who will listen to them. (I've been on the receiving end of that before)

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  42. Don't Fucking Joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    My aunt's niece’s brother in law's daughter died form a terrible case of encryption, complicated by her WiFi allergies, you insensitive clod!

  43. Re:Two outcomes by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    Globally that was solved in the early 1980s with simple international letters and anti terror agreements hidden away by most federal governments. Every cell phone is open to police as sold by design.
    No nations was going to need to have 2 or 3 production runs. No designer was going to need dual design teams for a US ready or EU ready phone.
    No nation was going to get a secure phone while the global public avoided police ready brands from another nation. Trade cost was not going to be a negative with dual designs and an informed public making selections about crypto branding.
    A cell phone would keep the local radio recording out, some of the press out vs what hardware could be used but be totally open to any police force.
    The "So why waste money protecting it" is really the propaganda needed to ensure people still use a phone with brands that give total access to federal law enforcement and mil for free.
    The other fear is from federal law enforcement that local police will stop talking with a live cell phone mic on or using other features. Internal affairs likes to ensure all local police enjoy their phones at lot too and feel safe with them. They *know* they are safe to have a cell phone powered on at all times as they cannot get access to the same make, brand per generation.
    That court support has to keep on been rejected to keep people talking.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  44. Well, will be buying from overseas then by jeneag · · Score: 1

    Would they be elected/appointed if they say that they will propose such bills before elections? Full of lies. But hey, hopefully a lot of people will just buy phones (unlocked!) from overseas and pay no CA sales tax which is outrageous in itself.

  45. Bring back (East-Euro) Communism by seoras · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I miss the cold war.
    Back in the good old days the "free west", would tout it's political and social freedom as why it was on the side of humanity.
    Something for the oppressed behind the iron curtain to dream of attaining and seeing their over lords for the tyrants they were.
    Then down came the Berlin Wall.
    Today you'd think the history books on the communist era in east Europe were the manuals/manifestos for state control in the West.
    The only thing our governments needs to be better than today is IS.

    1. Re:Bring back (East-Euro) Communism by RyoShin · · Score: 1

      Eh? So you want the era of McCarthyism, routine foreign government toppling, foreign wars--sorry, "conflicts"--either with our direct involvement or using another country's army/"liberators", and sometimes stopping just short of a nuclear WWIII? No thank you.

      While America has certainly had better in many ways in the past, it's also had it worse many ways in the past. (There were also a number of contentious social issues that have improved greatly since that time.) We don't need some foreign giant to act the villain so we can deny it, the American people need to stop denying that our own government is increasingly our villain.

  46. Re:Conflicting with another California Law? by srmalloy · · Score: 1

    Penal Code 1546 just specifies that they're not allowed to get access without a warrant; the arguments that they'll be fronting for the bill is that, without a backdoor, complying with the provisions of PC1546 won't do them any good, because they still won't be able to decrypt the contents of the device. Never mind that the backdoor is only as safe as the rectitude of the people with access to the backdoor keys; create a backdoor and give its keys to the government, and then you have only the government's assurance that they'd never use it for illegally spying on individuals, that every single employee who would have access to this data has the moral qualities of a Lensman, and that no one outside the government could possibly ever get hold of these keys.

  47. Use their own craziness against them by Minupla · · Score: 1

    Use software written in Russia, a VPN service in China and a ISP in the US, by the time they untangle the bureaucratic red tape to decrypt your packets, you'll be safely dead from old age!

    Min

    --
    On the whole, I find that I prefer Slashdot posts to twitter ones because I don't get limited to 140 chars before
  48. Re:First guns, now smartphones. by scarboni888 · · Score: 1

    Never had a need for a gun, anyway so no loss there.

  49. Apple should put out a press release... by goosesensor · · Score: 1

    ... stating they will not be selling iPhones in CA any more. See what happens then.

  50. Re: Technically feasible, probably already done. by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

    Same here. I have a few old phones without SIM cards that I let my kids use as Wi-Fi gaming devices. The phones boot up, connect to the Google Play and Amazon app stores, and run apps just fine. One phone displays a missing SIM warning when it boots, but that's the only difference.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  51. Phew! by iamacat · · Score: 1

    I have been worried that using encryption will attract attention of law enforcement who will know I something to hide. What a tremendous relief that I will now look just like another law abiding citizen using escrow crypto. While at the same time, I will use this escrow crypto for 99% of my communications, including my embarrassing but legal porn collection. And then, just when I hatch my evil plots, I will encrypt a small amount of data with my own crypto, before stamping escrowed one on top.

    Now the government has no reason to suspect me unless they get a warrant, sift through ALL my stuff and manage to realize that a second of noise in a 2 hour movie file contains my real secrets.

    I for one welcome our new technologically illiterate overlords!

  52. Re:Conflicting with another California Law? by ImprovOmega · · Score: 1

    that every single employee who would have access to this data has the moral qualities of a Lensman, and that no one outside the government could possibly ever get hold of these keys.

    I just had to step in and say: I'm SO GLAD to find someone else who liked that series =)

    I also agree completely and believe this scheme is doomed to fail.

  53. This will have about as much chance... by tlambert · · Score: 1

    This will have about as much chance of sticking as the "non-California vehicle emissions fees" they used to charge people for bringing in cars from outside California (i.e. want a phone with strong encryption? Take a trip and buy it outside California.).

    (1) The car emissions fee was declared unconstitutional (it violated the Interstate Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution, just like trying to restrict bringing phones with strong encryption would violate the ICC).

    (2) If you bought a phone with strong encryption outside California because California made them illegal, California would have a hell of a time trying to charge a "use tax" on the thing, since it would be (effectively) a sales tax on an illegal product. Ask the State of Utah how successful its Marijuana Tax Stamp Program was in combatting either marijuana, or the purchase of marijuana without paying the cigarette tax on it.

    Both of the bills -- the New York one and the California one -- are pretty much sponsored by grandstanding morons who apparently feel they are not getting enough press, so they have to try and get something in front of the news organizations in the hopes that it will be picked up on the next slow news day.

  54. Idiot hippie voters by Alypius · · Score: 1

    I eagerly await the day that SF/LA hippies are told they can't buy the new iPhone.

  55. Re:First guns, now smartphones. by cfalcon · · Score: 1

    > Pretty soon you won't be able to buy anything in California.

    You'll be able to buy them little stickers that say something is known to cause cancer to the state of california.

  56. Re:Two outcomes by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

    Apple isn't going to need to worry about doing a run for California and a run for the rest of the country for very long. If they caved in to this law then every other state and/or the federal government would pass a law requiring this (along with every other country seeing that they could get away with it) and there would only be one phone model to worry about very soon. The one with the back door.

  57. so, no phones sold to Caliphonies then, either by swschrad · · Score: 2

    if I was making cellphones, that's what I'd do. cut 'em off like Murderistan. the people would rise up and throw those asshats out of office in two days. probably throw them off a cliff into the sea. pity, some poor shark would die of a tummyache.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
    1. Re:so, no phones sold to Caliphonies then, either by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      Given the similar terms of the bills, it's likely they were written by the same person or corporate group. We are probably seeing the results of a concerted effort to enact spying provisions in every state. If you don't immediately oppose this publicly, you will see politicians in other states assume the public doesn't care, so they may as well take the lobbyist money. Having large tech companies publicly declare they intend to move their operations and jobs elsewhere might also help.

    2. Re:so, no phones sold to Caliphonies then, either by mysidia · · Score: 1

      if I was making cellphones, that's what I'd do. cut 'em off like Murderistan. the people would rise up and throw those asshats out of office in two days.

      Sell them phones with no software on them, and make the user download the code using a USB thumb drive.

  58. Re: First guns, now smartphones. by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 1

    Oh there will never be a shortage of overpriced real estate. You can always buy some of that :)

  59. Re:Corrupt politicians by hambone142 · · Score: 2

    It's another example of California "me too" politicians attempting to appear that they are bettering society.

    Take a look at Leland Yee for similar tactics.

    His sentencing is scheduled to occur next month.

    (Anti gun dude that was caught by FBI trying to ship in illegal firearms in containers from the Philippines).

    He plea bargained to corruption and they dropped the firearms charges.

    This fuggin' state is run by a bunch of nuts.

  60. Re:Corrupt politicians by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

    The news tells us that Germany is a surveillance-state and yet that doesn't seem to stop you from peddling nonsense. Why is that?

    --
    much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  61. Private bill by easyTree · · Score: 1

    Private bill would require ponies for all.

  62. Ponies by easyTree · · Score: 1

    Of course, "smartphone vendors" wouldn't be able to decrypt voice calls sent using VoIP software that was encrypted outside their domain of influence.

    To deliver ponies to the special people in spite of third-party VoIP software, additional coercion would be required.

  63. What's in a name? by Buchenskjoll · · Score: 1

    California Bill, Indiana Jones and Dakota Johnson, You 'murkins are a funny lot.

    --
    -- Make America hate again!
    1. Re:What's in a name? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      California Bill, Indiana Jones and Dakota Johnson, You 'murkins are a funny lot.

      Murkin? Is that a swampy merkin?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  64. Re:Technically feasible, probably already done. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    Is it just me

    Yes.

  65. Re:Corrupt politicians by gweihir · · Score: 1

    Your statement makes no sense.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  66. Trying hard is not success by dbIII · · Score: 1

    He has the advantage, for the sake of celebrity but nothing else, that he can say anything that he likes because he will never be in a position to implement any of his ideas. His own party will not let him.

    It's stating problems to be popular but never offering solutions that will be carried out - an old political trick.
    It's easy to make sense when you say something is wrong and it genuinely is a problem. But that's not a solution. All he's done lately is make a lot of noise, get attention and delay bills for a few hours without actually stopping them.

  67. I wish they all could be ... by dbIII · · Score: 1

    The California state senate is currently 26 D

    I'm disappointed.
    I thought those California girls were supposed to be DD.

    1. Re:I wish they all could be ... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I thought those California girls were supposed to be DD.

      Physiology being what it is, the California girls are probably least likely to be DD... I was going to say I've done well for myself over the years, but a lot of that was in TX, where it's highly likely.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  68. Qualcomm? (MSM, etc.) by DrYak · · Score: 1

    I think, the poster might be referring to some recent Qualcom chipset, where the modem is part of the northbridge.
    Thus some core critical part of the chipset run a firmware that is *NOT in anyway modifiable or accessible by the end-user* (for legal reason).
    Instead that part of the firmware is controlled by the service provider who pushes automatic update over the air (to both the SIM card it self and to the modem).

    Due to its critical position in the chipset, that firmware can also have access to some critical parts like video buffer, RAM, GPS, etc.
    That's often the case with Qualcomm chipsets.
    Replicant has a wiki explaining the difference between good and bad platforms.
    My personal experience: my WebOS powered HP Pre3. Runs on such a Qualcomm chipset. OTA update to the modem firmware will cause THE WHOLE PHONE TO HANG AND CRASH.

    As mentioned by the wiki, there are also phone that use a Qualcomm chipset without a modem (for tablet) and then eventually (for phone) plug an *external modem* into it as it should.
    My personal experience:
    - my Sailfish powered Jolla Phone. According to specs, it runs on a Qualcomm chipset that doesn't have a built-in modem. When my ISP sends an update, the *separate modem* part reboots gracefully, the rest of the phone barely notice it (i just get a pop-up asking me to re-enter my PIN).
    - similar behaviour used to be with my older webOS Palm Pr : used an OMAP chipset (those don't have any modem inside) and a separate modem chip. Phone didn't crash on modem-firmware problem (but, back then, OS wasn't that good at rebooting the modem. Some time turning 3G on/off could do the trick, sometimes I would need to ask the whole phone to reboot. SIM card can be changed live, but won't necessarily work without a reboot).

    To make a metaphor:

    Classic style smartphone chipset :
    (like the Ti OMAPs, the Qualcomm without modems, etc. : modem is a separate chip.)
    It's like your laptop. You have a laptop, you're in charge of your laptop, you connect whatever you want on it. You can install the OS you want on it.
    Like on your laptop, if you want to have connection, you plug a separate thing into it like a USB 3G/4G modem.
    This modem only takes care of the connection.
    If anything goes wrong you can simply unplug and replug the USB modem.
    (Well as the modem in a smartphone isn't a physically separate circuitry, but only a separate chip, you don't actually take it out physically. It requires a bit additionnal circuitry. But the basic image stands: the modem doesn't and can't affect the rest of the system).

    Qualcomm style smartphone chipset :
    (i.e.: with the modem built right into the northbridge of the smartphone chipset):
    It's like your fiber/DSL/cable modem. It has USB ports where you can plug additionnal storage. It has analog ports where you can plug phone handsets.
    BUT it's a device that is basically lent to you by the ISP. The ISP is in charge of remotely upgrading the firmware that runs it.
    The equivalent of "getting Linux to run on it", is plugin an USB keyboard and USB screen on it, and trying to do something with it (or using a raspbery Pi, while using the modem as a NAS to access everything that stays plugged into its USB ports).
    You have access to an interface with you keyboard and screen, the it's still the modem which is in charge of everything, not only the connection, but also all the storage you pluged into the USB port.
    If the ISP wanted (or received a government letter ordering them to), they could access your storage and siphon your data: because it's plugged into the modem's USB port and they are the one in charge of the system running here.
    That the case with some recent Qualcomm-based smartphone, where the modem is in charge of controlling the RAM, the mass-storage, the GPS, etc.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  69. Not the physical SIM card itself by DrYak · · Score: 1

    It's not the physical SIM-card itself.

    See my other answer in this thread.
    And see the Replicant wiki.

    On some chipsets by Qualcomm (which are extremely popular) the *modem part* serves as a northbridge to the chipset.
    It handles some critical component like RAM, sound hardware, and OS is running on a CPU core that is a client to that.

    And for legal reason, the entity responsible for the code running both on the physical SIM card it self and running in the modem firmware is the service provider.

    Regard TFA, that means that even if Google decide to say "Screw you!" to NY and CA legislation, the phone service provider is just one governemnt letter/order away from getting all your data.
    (because, remember: all your data is on a flash medium that is directly plugged into the modem running the service provider's firmware. Your Android is running on a CPU core that is a client to this modem).

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  70. Modem firmware, instead of SIM itself. by DrYak · · Score: 1

    It's not the CPU core and memory that is inside the physical SIM.
    As I have explained in my other answer in this thread, it's the modem part.
    The modem - which for legal reasons runs a 3rd party closed source firmware provided by your service provider - of several Qualcomm chipset works as "sort of northbridge" to the chipset.
    The modem (and its 3rd party firmware) is in charge of several critical parts of the phone, which may include RAM, audio hardware, GPS, etc.
    Android runs on a CPU core that function as a client to this modem an accesses everything thourgh it.

    Replicant have complained about this in the past and documented in their wiki.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  71. Not WRONG but POORLY UNDERSTOOD by DrYak · · Score: 1

    The poster isn't exactly *wrong*.

    He just have poorly understood and reinterpreted in own words, an actual problem that does exists for real:
    Some qualcom chipset have the modem inside the main SoC and that modem works as a "sort of northbridge" for the SoC.
    The modem is in charge of handling RAM, audio hardware, GPS, etc.
    That modem, for legal reason - runs a 3rd party firmware that is provided by the phone service provider.
    Android runs on a CPU core that is client to this modem to access the phone resources.

    See my other answer in this thread.
    And see the Replicant wiki.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  72. Re:Hmmm by houghi · · Score: 1

    Everybody here seems to think that the vendors care. They don't. They know that there are just a minority of people who would want such a phone without encryption. The rest does not care.
    The people do not care that they have less and less rights. Because if they did, we would have seen it by now.

    So out of cost reduction, they just add the back port on all phones, because it will be cheaper. Only if some state or country explicitly forbids back ports will they have no back ports and even that I would not be sure of.

    It is just easier to assume that all phones already have back ports and all that they want is making it legal. Remember: Paranoia is only when you think you are being followed, not when you know you are being followed.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  73. Civil Disobedence? by ripvlan · · Score: 1

    Once these backdoors are put in place - hack the hell out of them. Make consumers nervous that their data can be stolen.

    Then let's see what the politicians want to do.

    Of course - only the data on the phone must be decrypted. If I use, say, Google docs - that data is "in the cloud." does that count?

  74. I WANT a warrent by johncandale · · Score: 1

    I want my speration of pwoers and warrents back. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects

  75. Re:Corrupt politicians by Sloppy · · Score: 1

    Common criminals have much more to gain from this idea than the NSA does.

    It's embarrassing that people are only now beginning to pretend to care about communication security, thanks to NSA getting caught. (Have to say "pretend" because it's not like most people are really doing anything different. But at least they're talking about it. I guess that's something.)

    But if we want to take all the threats that plaintext communications exposes us to (our own government, other governments, organized crime, insurance companies, nosey neighbors, political witchhunters, ad profilers, and yes: even the greatest enemy (our own fears, since even when you're not being watched, if you think you might be watched then you're still not free)) and put all that under the blanket label "NSA," that's fine. Just fucking fine.

    It's bullshit, but it's ok. Whatever it takes to start going things right. If you wanna pretend the NSA is the threat that's ok because at least, they really are a threat. (Not sure they make the top-ten list, but hey, whatever.) Wear the label, NSA. Big Brother, be the proxy for all the little brothers. You'll do just fine, NSA.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  76. Re:Fuck it i'm voting republican by erapert · · Score: 1

    I won't answer your question directly because I know that the very next post will merely deride me for my choice rather than bringing anything constructive to the table.

    I do have a "favorite" and I'm well aware that my favorite isn't perfect and has been hypocritical at times or has certain views with which I don't agree.
    But nobody's perfect, and nobody but me will ever agree with me 100% of the time.

    So I don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good-- especially when my favorite wouldn't impose upon me any of the things with which I disagree.

  77. Re: First guns, now smartphones. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    Guns have approximately no effect on your ability to fight back against the machine. They may stop a crime or get you killed or something like that, but against the authorities they're irrelevant except in the very short run.

    People with small arms can't stand against the Army. They can make nuisances of themselves, if enough of the local population supports them, but that's about it.

    Good crypto is much more effective. Secret, reliable, easy communications are great to coordinate things.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  78. Re:Hmmm by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    I'm not claiming that Apple is morally out of the ordinary, but they do have reasons to really not want back doors, they do have clout, and they have a long record of doing things their way and figuring they'd probably sell well.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  79. Re: More proof the Republicans rule CA by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    Correction: he contributed a massive amount of money to an anti-human-rights campaign. Party alignment had nothing to do with it.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  80. Re:Conflicting with another California Law? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    The first two books were add-ons, and also the "Storm" Cloud book, sometimes referred to as the seventh. Children of the Lens tied in with the first three.

    If you read the central four in order, you get onion layer after onion layer of evil, while Triplanetary starts with Arisians vs. Eddorians.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  81. Re: First guns, now smartphones. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    Clearly, you haven't paid much attention to Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq. They did not succeed in defeating invaders. They did succeed in making their lives complicated, and did a good job in operating where the modern armies weren't at the time. Particularly in an urbanized country, resistance does need to involve winning battles.

    As far as the Revolutionary War goes, the militia were able to win some clashes, but to do any good they had to be able to win battles at least somewhere, which was what Washington's army was able to do after getting trained by von Steuben. They also had access to modern military weaponry.

    Guns aren't going to defend against the government.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  82. Pro-cop politician from Apple-heavy Elk Grove by billstewart · · Score: 1

    Jim Cooper, the Californian, represents a district that includes Elk Grove, site of a big Apple facility, as well as various other parts of the south-of-Sacramento area. His political connections are much more with the Sacramento-area cops than with the Apple employees he represents, unfortunately, and also he's unfortunately a Democrat, so unless he gets a primary challenger, he's going to win re-election. But he's only a first-term Assembly member, so there's still a chance to knock him out.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks