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Ask Slashdot: Time To Get Into Crypto-currency? If So, Which?

Qbertino writes: With the ever-looming cyberpunk future in close proximity, I'm starting to wonder if it isn't time to get myself familiar with crypto currency as a means of trade. Bitcoin is all the hype, but the blockchain has flaws, in that it isn't as anonymous as one would hope for — you can track past transactions. Rumors of Bitcoin showing cracks are popping up and also there are quite a few alternatives out there. So I have some questions: Is getting into dealing with crypto currency worthwhile already? Is Bitcoin the way to go, or will it falter under wide use / become easily trackable once NSA and the likes adapt their systems to doing exactly that? What digital currency has the technical and mind-share potential to supersede bitcoin? Are there feasible cryptocurrencies that have the upsides of Bitcoin (such as a mathematical limit to their amount) but are fully anonymous in transactions? What do the economists and digi-currency nerds here have to contribute on that? What are your experiences with handling and holding cryptocurrency? And does Bitcoin own the market or is it still flexible enough for an technology upgrade?

271 comments

  1. Missed the Boat? by jshackney · · Score: 4, Informative

    Gonna go out on a limb and say maybe that boat left port sometime around March 2014.

    1. Re:Missed the Boat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it's about to sink. Bitcoin and it's ilk are a failed experiment. Interesting, but ultimately dead.

    2. Re:Missed the Boat? by Z00L00K · · Score: 2

      I agree, today Bitcoin payments are a red flag for law enforcement.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    3. Re:Missed the Boat? by timbudtwo · · Score: 0

      Just then how are all the kids going to get their drugs?

    4. Re:Missed the Boat? by Spazmania · · Score: 1, Troll

      How is bitcoin a failed experiment? It was a pyramid scheme. It made a bunch of money for the folks who were in early and got out before it started to collapse. Everybody else gets screwed. Pyramid schemes have been done to death. They're far past the experimental stage.

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
    5. Re:Missed the Boat? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Which is why I've paid for cannabis[0], domainnames, VPSs and bountysources with it?

      It was really volatile until people figured out what it was but it's no worse or better than any other currency. Try owning any random currency during government unrest. It's "collapsed" to all of ~$350. Which is still worth more than your Zimbabwe dollars.

      It's still easier to carry $50 of BTC on my phone than $50 cash and if I lose my phone I can always just go grab the keys and send it to another wallet before the idiot that stole my phone figures out BTC. I can also 'back up' my money to multiple places. I have a few PGP encrypted wallets sitting on VPSes should my house burn down.

      Coinbase has 2 factor auth for everything. I trust it much more than my bank that still uses 1 factor auth. It also looks like it was designed after the year 2010.

      Log in to coin base? 2 factor. Send money over $X amount? 2 factor. Make any account changes? 2 factor.

      Personally BitCoin is a bit too 'heavy'. The full chain is going on 100GB now and in my mind it's the crypto currency equivalent of Gold. Good for long term, but a PITA to deal with daily. I think OP has a valid question and I'd like to know if there are any other ones out there.

      Personally I wouldn't care if Mastercard or Visa backed a currency as long as it could do faster transactions.

      For a 'tech' website Slashdot seems to have its fair share of luddites. "NEW CURRENCY, PYRAMID SCHEME". Teach the kids to code. "IT'LL NEVER WORK, EVEN THOUGH I'VE BEEN CODING SINCE I WAS 4".

      Calm down and evaluate it on a technical basis and it's not that bad, the 'easy' money is long gone but I never intended to get rich on BTC. It's just another currency like carrying around Euro or Pesos, except this one I can backup on a piece of paper, to a flash drive, or elsewhere.

      There are also a lot of newer readers here. Reddit is bleeding users that want real discussion. Twitter is imploding and a cesspool. Even with everything slashdot has been through it's discussions on some topics are still better than anywhere else I've found on the web, StackExchange included.

      If you're really convinced that the whole thing is a scam put up some numbers and reasoning other than just dismissing it as a pyramid scheme.

      [0]. The dark net is kind of interesting, about where the interwebs were in the late 90s. no flash and javascript piazza. At times it actually feels faster than the normal web because of all of that.

    6. Re:Missed the Boat? by mysidia · · Score: 2

      Why are you calling Bitcoin a pyramid scheme? I think it's a perfectly viable way of making electronic payments.

      Why, just the other day I purchased around 1/4 a bitcoin, and used it to buy something.

      I used Bitcoin for this transaction, because I tried Paypal first, and Paypal hung at a "Logging in... screen"

      Something I am seeing more and more often.... I want to buy something on eBay, or from other source, they accept Paypal..... I try to checkout using PayPal, and PayPal's website hangs in Chrome After I enter my Login and Password, It just sits at "Logging in...." forever, Instead of coming up with the screen, where I am supposed to enter the One Time Password from my Keyfob.

      And thus I cannot complete the transaction, Because PayPal's website is So broken, So then I am forced to use a Credit Card, which is Less secure, and paying by Bitcoin is a good alternative.

    7. Re:Missed the Boat? by davester666 · · Score: 1

      and cash.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    8. Re:Missed the Boat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's means it is.

    9. Re:Missed the Boat? by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Gonna go out on a limb and say maybe that boat left port sometime around March 2014.

      Already sailed for Bitcoin, you mean. The time to get into any cryptocurrency is at the beginning, when its units are easy to mine without owning your own silicon fab and power station, and before its transaction system starts to break down as users discover it won't scale.

    10. Re: Missed the Boat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get off my lawn!

    11. Re:Missed the Boat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why are you calling Bitcoin a pyramid scheme?

      Because he doesn't know what a pyramid scheme is.

    12. Re:Missed the Boat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Problem is that if you don't want to be a victim of double-spending, you have to have the entire blockchain. All 100+ gigs of it. On every device that you do transactions with. This by itself is making BitCoin unwieldy.

    13. Re:Missed the Boat? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Gonna go out on a limb and say maybe that boat left port sometime around March 2014.

      To be fair... maybe this question has been lingering in the Firehose for the past year and a half.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    14. Re:Missed the Boat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow you really don't understand what you're talking about do you? It's ok just admit it and i'll explain.

      A double spend is a double spend. It doesn't have anything to do with having or not having a copy of the blockchain.
      What it means is that someone sends you a transaction and then sends the same funds used to fund your transaction, somewhere else such as back to themselves. It is the bitcoin equivalent of counterfeiting.

      In this case, the first transaction to make it into a block is the winner and becomes "real" as far as the rest of the world is concerned.

      So here is what you do. Don't give up the merchandise until the transaction is sitting in a block.
      Unless the blockchain is being forked you'll be fine. Now if you are truly worried.that some blockchain fork might occur then wait for that block to get buried a little. 6 blocks is more than enough to ensure your money stays yours. That might be slower than visa, but it's a helluvalot faster than western union.

      The only people that need the entire blockchain are people that are using the blockchain for research and analysis purposes. These are guys like miners & block explorers. Unless you have real reason to run a full node and the resources to do it there is no reason to keep a ledger of everyone's transactions since the beginning of time laying about. You only need to know about the blocks that directly effect your own balance. These would be blocks where you received or sent funds period. No need for anything more than that.

    15. Re:Missed the Boat? by shurdeek · · Score: 1

      How did you come to the conclusion that bitcoin was a pyramid scheme, and why do you use the past tense? It isn't a pyramid scheme anymore?

    16. Re:Missed the Boat? by shurdeek · · Score: 1

      These are not true. You don't need to have historical data to detect a double spend, and the bitcoin blockchain isn't 100+ gigs yet, it's more like 60.

    17. Re: Missed the Boat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Translation: I made money off of it and I like using it, so I choose to ignore it's dying off.

    18. Re:Missed the Boat? by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      That's fine and all until one of the US Government, the MPAA/RIAA, or whatever authority tells paypal, visa, or mastercard to stop accepting payments to their enemy of the month.

      I've never bought bitcoins (mined all of the ones I have back when it was easier) I've used it to donate to BTN and WCD, which I'm sure the MPAA/RIAA don't like, in which case they can go fuck themselves. That, and cashed out on a bunch of them while the price per bitcoin was stupidly high and made a few thousand bucks.

    19. Re:Missed the Boat? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Heh, I saw the writing on the wall and stopped playing with them fairly early on. However, I'd mined a stack of 'em. 48, I think? I didn't want to pay the taxes on the income and I didn't want to be associated with them in a manner that I might have to account for later, so simply avoided the taxes and donated them all to EFF over the period of a month and a half. Yeah, they were stupidly high value when I donated them too. I figured they might as well be worth it for EFF. At this point, social stigma prevents my association really.

      For now, they're associated with crime - perhaps improperly but that doesn't change the fact that they are. That and I'd rather just avoid the taxes. Who knows what kind of impact it would have had to cash 'em out. Taxes are already a complicated thing and it's not entirely clear (or wasn't - I don't think it is yet) exactly how they'd be taxed. So, off they went to EFF. I'm sure they had more use for them than I and I like EFF. I might have split them with the ACLU but the ACLU did not take BTC at the time. I'm not sure if they accept it now.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    20. Re:Missed the Boat? by r.freeman · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      I agree, today Bitcoin payments are a red flag for law enforcement.

      Yeah, and using crypto, gpg. Or linux.
      Or not agreeing with massive intake of the rapefugees.
      Or questioning what government goes.
      Or trying to factore too large primes...

    21. Re:Missed the Boat? by r.freeman · · Score: 1

      Everybody else gets screwed

      Who gets screwed and how?
      You can now send money to other part of world for cents instead 5-10$ or more as with paypal or WU.
      You could buy now, wait few years, and probably get ahead (just from avoiding the inflation of fiat made-up currencies like USD/EUR) - if you like to take the chance.
      Professional (and hobbyist) forex-traders can still made a money on quick trades same as year(s) ago (though of course you can also lose, so don't play if you don't want to... but it was the same choice for people in 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012...)

    22. Re:Missed the Boat? by mlts · · Score: 1

      The best thing one can do is find another currency, mine it, then exchange those coins for BitCoins. Some currencies are a lot miner-friendly, so that rack of 100 USB ASICs can be powered on and generate more coins and value than the cost of electricity to run them.

    23. Re:Missed the Boat? by Ksevio · · Score: 1

      In a pyramid scheme, the ones at the top profit from the ones at the bottom paying up. It's more like a tree structure passing money towards the root.

      You're describing more of a Ponzi scheme where the ones in first profit and leave. It's like a queue structure with the money being collected as people leave the queue.

    24. Re: Missed the Boat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wtf? you're clueless.

    25. Re:Missed the Boat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why does everyone insist on calling everything they don't like a pyramid scheme. We get it.. you heard that phrase and can repeat it. Way to go.

      BTC made most of the money mid way through, no early. Early miners and traders had to wait a long time for the big BTC boom and the rise to like 1200 per BTC. China banned it, an exchange or three got hacked and now the value is still near 400, that's not so bad for a bunch of numbers that had no real value otherwise.

      The failed part is that BTC isn't anonymous, it's clunky and the transaction times and fees aren't good enough.. but it's still great for an online way to send ppl money without all the bullshit of paypal or needing a merchant account. The fact it managed to create a 5.6 billion dollar underground non regulated decentralized market place is pretty cool.

      The fact it went up to 1200 and down to 400 is just the nature of the beast and to a large degree losing China nail in BTC, but it might be for the best that China popped the BTC bubble before it got too big. It's actually a lot easier to use than a CC once you get setup. It's just like paypal but without all the BS rules or potential charge backs. A deal is a deal in the world of BTC.

      The price has been pretty solid at 300-400 for several months now, so it's actually doing what a new currency/commodity should. It had it's trendy hyped up boom and now it has a more reliable value... for now.

      People need to understand than money isn't real and hasn't been for along time. Even if money was a measurement of work, the fact that pay equality is so huge really makes money more abstract than most people consider. It's just a trust agreement, what you trade doesn't matter much. Newegg takes it, lots of web hosts, DNS hosts, seeboxes and such take it.

      There was never any making money early and getting out in BTC. You're confused or probably just making shit up that fits what you'd like to believe. BTC hasn't collapsed. Newegg didn't even start accepting it until well after it's peak value. I wouldn't put my life savings in it, but it's a cool way to buy stuff or gamble or just confuse people who don't understand that money doesn't have to be tangible.

    26. Re: Missed the Boat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Translattion: I missed the boat.

    27. Re:Missed the Boat? by rundgong · · Score: 1

      It was really volatile until people figured out what it was but it's no worse or better than any other currency. Try owning any random currency during government unrest. It's "collapsed" to all of ~$350. Which is still worth more than your Zimbabwe dollars.

      Why the hell would you own a "random currency during government unrest"?
      That seems like very low bar to compare yourself with.

      According to coindesk the BTC value during the last 12 months has varied from approximately $210 to $450, or somewhere around 100% "volatility".
      Compare to Euros, 1.05-1.15
      China CNY, 0.15-0.16
      Japan JPY, 0.0080-0.0086
      UK GBP, 1.41-1.58
      They are all in the region of 10%

      That makes the BTC look like it is still pretty damn volatile.

    28. Re: Missed the Boat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rather that cherry picking the most stable currencies, how about randomly selecting a bunch of global currencies. Then you'd see that btc is about average for a currency.

    29. Re: Missed the Boat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bitcoin itself isn't a pyramid scheme, but specialized mining hardware was and still is I assume.

    30. Re:Missed the Boat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What exactly are you getting at?

      Can't be that "bitcoin price is too high now", because it's lower now than in March 2014.

    31. Re:Missed the Boat? by michelcolman · · Score: 1

      There's also new initiatives like BitGo Instant that allow instant transactions without the risk of a double spend.

    32. Re:Missed the Boat? by molecular · · Score: 1

      I know this will get some of them hurt, killed or into worse drugs but they can buy them "on the street" like their parents have.

    33. Re:Missed the Boat? by molecular · · Score: 1

      Failed? What collapse? You must have be reading too much Mike Hearn or journalists who don't fact-check any more.

      The ponzi is the fiat debt bubble.

      Bitcoin is sound money.

    34. Re:Missed the Boat? by RPoet · · Score: 1

      Among other inaccuracies which others have corrected, you have the blockchain size wrong. It's currently about 64GB on my node.

      --
      "Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
    35. Re:Missed the Boat? by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      I really like the "anonymous currency" sales aspect that helped get Bitcoin adopted. At best, Bitcoin gives its users security through obscurity - people don't understand how it works, so they think it's untraceable. The very nature of digital currency - especially the no double-spend provisions - make it traceable by design, far more so than cash, precious metals, and even unmarked gemstones. Due to their long history, the traditional currencies have better developed traceability schemes, but when someone really puts their mind to developing the methodology (and really, this is just a matter of convincing the courts that the method constitutes proof beyond a reasonable doubt), tracking down and proving the identities behind bitcoin transactions will be more forensically certain than fingerprinting or DNA evidence.

      And, yes, there are some techniques that users can try to use to try to further obfuscate their identity, but the fact remains, the blockchain is publically available, every transaction ever made is recorded, decipherable, and you can bet already archived by law enforcement.

    36. Re:Missed the Boat? by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Credit cards are backed by the legal system, with liability limits, fraud protections, etc. They have their flaws and identity theft is more than a minor nuisance, but Bitcoin is still a "wild west" currency. If you leave your monetary value in Bitcoin for more than a few minutes, you are taking a far greater actual risk than using a traditional credit card. Which then means that you need to transfer your value into Bitcoin just before making a transaction and then then receiver of Bitcoin needs to transfer their value out of Bitcoin shortly after receiving it - both of these transfers are using traditional electronic banking methods that could have been used to make the transaction in the first place.

      If you're worried about fraud against your bank account, set up one for "less than trustworthy online dealings" that only has as much money in it as you need to conduct a day's business - that's just as secure a "firewall" as using Bitcoin for your risk-facing transactions.

    37. Re:Missed the Boat? by Lennie · · Score: 1

      The Internet was associated with porn at first too, still it got used by everyone many years later.

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
    38. Re:Missed the Boat? by Lennie · · Score: 1

      Dash (an alt-coin/other cryptocurrency) also has an instant send built into it.

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
    39. Re: Missed the Boat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Canadian dollar has lost about 40 percent of its value in the last 2 years. I've seen my dollar worth 15 to 20 percent more than the American dollar and as low as almost 50 percent of an American dollar.

      Please do tell me about the lack of volatility in "real world" currencies.

    40. Re:Missed the Boat? by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · · Score: 1

      Check the value of the Canadian dollar against the American dollar for the last four years. We've lost around 25%.

    41. Re:Missed the Boat? by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · · Score: 1

      It's lower now than march 2014, but it's a hell of a lot higher than march 2011.

    42. Re:Missed the Boat? by ZipK · · Score: 1

      I didn't want to pay the taxes on the income and I didn't want to be associated with them in a manner that I might have to account for later, so simply avoided the taxes and donated them all to EFF over the period of a month and a half.

      Weren't you still responsible for reporting income in the year the bit coins were mined, and then reporting a deduction for the charitable donation? Even if these were in the same tax year, they may not fully offset one another, depending on your total tax picture.

    43. Re:Missed the Boat? by vovin · · Score: 1

      And porn is rapidly becoming mainstream today.
      So perhaps you are implying that if BTC sticks around everyone will be okay with a 'little' criminal activity?
      Not saying I disagree, just saying.

    44. Re:Missed the Boat? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Not according to my accountant, no. I never "realized the asset." Thus it needn't reported.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    45. Re:Missed the Boat? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      That is true and, if you remember, there were loads of people who violated their local blue laws that faced successful prosecution. I doubt that I'd be prosecuted but I'd rather avoid anything that sullies the reputation in that particular direction and at this current time.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    46. Re:Missed the Boat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...Why, just the other day I purchased around 1/4 a bitcoin, and used it to buy something.... I used Bitcoin for this transaction, because I tried Paypal first, and Paypal hung at a "Logging in screen...

      Oh, you paid the Microsoft Tech guys who called you to report a problem with your computer?

    47. Re: Missed the Boat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This was a big win for canadians who bought btc before the slide...

    48. Re:Missed the Boat? by mlts · · Score: 1

      The "once someone is paid, they stay paid" is a feature of BTC. It would be nice if there were an escrow mechanism with a time limit so if Alice sells a vend a goat machine to Bob, Bob puts the BTC in escrow, until Charlie vets that the vend a goat machine made it to Bob's place and is usable, then allows the transaction to proceed, or before a time limit, interrupts the transaction and has the money sent back to Bob if instead of a vend a goat machine, it were just a box of cinderblocks. This will help against one of the more common auction frauds, and it protects the seller (the currency goes into escrow before the product is shipped), and the buyer (the escrow agent validates that they actually got what was in the package.)

      Of course, this isn't perfect... the Bob the Buyer can pull the vending machine out, place some stones, then allege fraud to Charlie so Charlie nixes the transaction... but that goes from common auction fraud which is an everday happening, to actual felony larceny. Escrow does raise the bar though, and given a high enough value transaction, it might be Charlie has his people waiting with Bob for the package to actively validate that all shipped as it should have.

      There is another downside... Charlie's reputation. This was discussed back in the 90s on the cypherpunks list, that if the value of Charlie's reputation was less than what the transaction was, he could collude with either Alice or Bob to fuck over the other party. It might sully Charlie's doings in the future, but if the transaction was valuable enough, hosing one party might just be worth it to the escrow agent, as they could go find another biz after that.

    49. Re:Missed the Boat? by BlackPignouf · · Score: 1

      The full chain is going on 100GB

      Holy cow! Pardon my ignorance, but when do you need this chain?
      Do you need it for transactions?

    50. Re:Missed the Boat? by Lennie · · Score: 1

      Judging by how Bitcoin is doing right now, maybe it will be other cryptocurrencies and not Bitcoin.

      But definitely I see blockchain technology, even if only at the backend of the banking system.

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
    51. Re:Missed the Boat? by Lennie · · Score: 1

      Luckily I'm from Europe, I don't remember any problems with law here.

      We'll have to see if cryptocurrencies will be different. Wouldn't be surprised if some laws will be applied at some point.

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
    52. Re:Missed the Boat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If bitcoin (or any other crypto currency) were going to hit the big time, and become the currency of choice for internet users the world over it would fall over, it's just not big enough. Daily purchases on the internet worldwide are measured in the billions of dollars, bitcoin is already reaching its limit with a few million dollars of daily trading. It's not just a little bit too small, it's several orders of magnitude too small. That's IFF the casual user switches over to it.

    53. Re: Missed the Boat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only someone without a heart could object to accepting refugees who've been raped.

    54. Re: Missed the Boat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds more like your Chrome installation is broken. Did you try another computer/browser?

    55. Re:Missed the Boat? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      Yes and no. The 'chain' is every transaction that ever occurred ever.

      Think of it as the git repo for bitcoin. You can either let someone else host it (and just tell them to do transactions) or you can get it yourself. It all comes down to who you trust and with what.

      But should the internet explode and you lose all trust in everyone else you'll have your own black book of what was spent where. I just use coinbase these days. I honestly trust it more than my bank because it has better security than my bank. I tell them to do transactions on by behalf and they have the computers to do all the dirty transaction bits.

    56. Re:Missed the Boat? by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      I've long thought that a "web of trust" would be far more practical than any crypto-blockchain crap... but nobody thought they could buy illegal drugs and get away with it in a "web of trust" model, so it hasn't had Bitcoin's adoption rate.

    57. Re:Missed the Boat? by ZipK · · Score: 2
      You might have your accountant check IRS Notice 2014-21. Perhaps it didn't apply to you.

      Q-8: Does a taxpayer who “mines” virtual currency (for example, uses computer resources to validate Bitcoin transactions and maintain the public Bitcoin transaction ledger) realize gross income upon receipt of the virtual currency resulting from those activities?

      A-8: Yes, when a taxpayer successfully “mines” virtual currency, the fair market value of the virtual currency as of the date of receipt is includible in gross income. See Publication 525, Taxable and Nontaxable Income, for more information on taxable income.

    58. Re:Missed the Boat? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 2

      associated by who?

      Guess you missed the news that Bank of America, Citi and Deutsche Bank,Goldman Sachs and J.P. Morgan have invested hundreds of millions of dollars into blockchain technology.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    59. Re:Missed the Boat? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Yes, I'm familiar with that. Mostly. I'd never read that in its entirety before, much thanks. But, hmm... I never realized it. It was never taken as a profit. However, even if it had been - I mined it before the regulations regarding virtual currencies were in place. I don't suppose I'm actually obligated to explain the entire details but you might as well figure it out. I have no idea what your tax education level is so I'll word this like I'm talking to someone who understands it about like I do. I do not pay my own taxes and I am not a lawyer. I employ both.

      I, personally, never realized the profit. The hardware is not owned by me, nor was the currency mined for my benefit, but I have access to the hardware. The currency was mined in name of and on equipment which is not my personal equipment. That entity never realized it as an asset. In fact, that incorporated body never makes an asset. It only pays taxes on profits. As the entity makes no profit, it has no income. It does make a small amount of income on a regular basis. Anything that would have been a profit is invested in growth at year's end. Those assets, the investments, never get cashed out and they do not belong to me personally.

      I control that entity. It is a legally incorporated entity. It, that entity, takes as much as it can and dumps it into charitable giving but that only reduces your tax burden so much. So, the remainder goes to overhead and anything left gets tucked away in a long-term investment as a business growth strategy. It sometimes turns a profit but not often. I do not have access to those assets - easily. I could liquidate them but that will take a while. I've never done it, I have no idea what that will entail. I assume it looks like me signing a few documents and waiting a few months for the entity to dissolve and I, the soul investor, will get any monies or assets. I do not see me ever needing to do that. Thus the whole thing will be managed even after I'm gone and I'll be donating money to charitable causes in perpetuity - even after I'm dead.

      Which is a lot to explain when I share the otherwise boring story about having mined some. I also don't bother explaining it in much detail because some people have been known to see "corporation" and flip out without actually reading what it is or understanding it. They know only one type of corporation and they're certain it is evil and they're certain I'm cheating on my taxes. I've been through two audits and have been just fine. Right now, the corporation (it is not a publicly traded corporation nor is it structures as a non-profit) does sometimes end up paying a little in taxes. I'm not that picky and I don't always keep receipts for applicable things - I'm told I do a horrible job at that and that I can/could write off more. I don't usually worry much about. It has multiple sources of income and gives most of it away in yearly donations and anything else goes into fairly mature longer-term investments.

      If I dissolve that corporation then I will realize that income and I will actually be subjected to tax on that. However, there's not much chance at that. So, it does nothing but allow me to give away money that I'd normally give away while still accumulating some assets which should keep it running (and donating) so long as the US economy still functions and land has wealth. Corporations are wonderful things that everyone should learn a little about. I did well for myself so I try to donate a lot. This enables me to put some incoming dollars into a structured and protected entity and that entity does the giving that I'd normally do. Then, when I die, it will be managed by a group of third parties who will get paid a percentage of income to manage it within the rules of the charter. That means that it will be able to keep generating income and keep donating income after I am dead and gone. It's also a lawful way to avoid the "death tax" unless, of course, I dissolve it.

      If you really want to know more, I can explain it a bit more. There's a number of types of co

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    60. Re:Missed the Boat? by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      associated by who?

      Pretty much everyone, including law enforcement.
      The media loves to link Bitcoin to "the dark web" and terrorism.

      invested hundreds of millions of dollars into blockchain technology.

      Blockchain technology is not virtual currency, it's merely a distributed/verified ledger of transactions.

      Lots of companies want to get involved with using the blockchain concept, not all of them want to get involved with using Bitcoin.

      Even SWIFT, the 800 lb gorilla of financial transactions, is trying to figure out how to revamp their business to use blockchain technology as the foundation. Likely a private blockchain which they can control.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    61. Re:Missed the Boat? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      At the time, they had not. At the time, there were a few stories making the rounds and there had been a big FBI mess-up with an underground market and FBI agents stealing them. So, I figured it was a good time to be nice. I stand by that choice. I'd actually forgotten them until a flurry of those stories popped up and had to go power the box on that held the wallet and software.

      So, it's not as if I was doing anything with it anyhow. I always give money to EFF (sometimes more than that) so it was a good thing to do, at the time. I believe they're actually worth less now than they were then but I don't actually recall their exact value when I sold. They were near $600 each so not a whole lot but during one of their spikes.

      It was looking pretty iffy at the time and this way they went to use. I just finished typing a long reply that contains some more details but that was mostly the taxation perspective. I've actually answered that one before. I should probably try to find a way to explain it in a more concise manner. At any rate, no...

      At the time, not too many people or businesses were really putting their name on it. In the public eye it was what they used to buy drugs on the Silk Road and maybe murder people or commit other crimes. Then, the other thing they knew about it was that there were two FBI folks (who may have pretended to be willing to murder someone) who'd also gotten in trouble 'cause they were stealing it. Then, the rest were pissed about the way the government managed dealing with the ones they did confiscate.

      So... Yeah, I'd forgotten I'd even had them so I asked around here and someone said EFF had started taking them. That was convenient. So, they got 'em rather than be associated with that. Make sense? That's a bit long to type so, yeah... That's the gist of it.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    62. Re:Missed the Boat? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      The blockchain is the one of the key pieces that makes up bitcoin. A workable P2P distributed ledger should not be dismissed as "merely" anymore than a printing press be described as merely putting ink of metal an then pressing it into paper.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    63. Re: Missed the Boat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speaking of a missed boat...

    64. Re:Missed the Boat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The coins are traceable, but the they can't be tied back to an individual the way a bank account can. The value of Bitcoin comes from being anonymous, not from being "untraceable" (which is clearly is not).

    65. Re:Missed the Boat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The reasoning was there. The limit to the number of bitcoins means that early adopters(developers) pay the least and their bitcoin value increases the most. The limit on the quantity means it is flawed and unviable in the long term therefore it appears a scheme.

  2. Dude by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're too late... way to late.

  3. Betteridge can tell you. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Ask Slashdot: Time To Get Into Crypto-currency?

    No.

  4. By definition... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...the answer is "NO".

  5. Coins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Collect real currency. Coins. Polish them. Rub them against your manhood. Push them up your back passage. Love money. It's more rewarding.

    1. Re:Coins by tandavanadesan · · Score: 5, Funny

      Collect real currency. Coins. Polish them. Rub them against your manhood. Push them up your back passage. Love money. It's more rewarding.

      Now I know why my mother used to say "wash your hands after touching money, you don't know where it's been".

    2. Re:Coins by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 2

      gives a new slant on "money laundering"

    3. Re:Coins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Upright Citizens:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO1Q7F23DxM

    4. Re:Coins by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Collect real currency. Coins. Polish them. Rub them against your manhood. Push them up your back passage. Love money. It's more rewarding.

      Don't forget to put it all in the laundry when you're done.

  6. With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by tomxor · · Score: 5, Funny

    With the ever-looming cyberpunk future in close proximity

    This is what happens when slashdot is your only source of news and you frequent it too often.

    1. Re:With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by Brett+Buck · · Score: 5, Funny

      I am sorry, but I don't understand that statement. Are you asserting the denizens of slashdot are not an accurate reflection of society at large? Because I find that hard to believe.

      I have surfed the internet extensively, so I know what is really going on in the world. Don't try to pull the wool over *my* eyes!

      BTW, does anyone have a good website about curing Rickets at home? I would prefer a solution that does not involve exposure to sunlight.

    2. Re:With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by Nutria · · Score: 3, Informative

      Milk -- in the US, at least -- is Vitamin D enriched.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    3. Re:With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by Brett+Buck · · Score: 4, Funny

      You're the tool of "big dairy"!

    4. Re:With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by Nutria · · Score: 1

      A more pertinent question is, "Who -- besides dweebs -- says the ever-looming cyberpunk future is in close proximity?"

      This is a perfect example of "[citation needed]".

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    5. Re:With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're the tool of "big dairy"!

      That was too easy, but nonetheless I salute you.

    6. Re:With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Are there nutters who think that's a conspiracy, just like vaccines and fluoride?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    7. Re:With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      s/cit/medic/

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    8. Re:With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by bigfinger76 · · Score: 1

      There are probably one or two now.

    9. Re:With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      which is no help if you're posting from the Ecuadorian embassy in London.

    10. Re:With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by Cyberpunk+Reality · · Score: 1

      If you can't look around the world, at the Web, drones, cell phones, climate change, Amazon, Google, and the TPP (among countless other things) and see that we're living in a cyberpunk dystopia, then you need your brain examined. Would you prefer to have that done via massive applicion of computing power on the datamined records of your virtual presence, via an array of electrodes on your head reading your thoughts, or with a direct computer-brain interface? The former two can be done right now, for the last you'll have to wait for next year.

      --
      Rule 35 of the internet: "If it can be hacked, it will be". - Charles Stross
    11. Re:With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by shawn2772 · · Score: 1

      Are there nutters who think that's a conspiracy, just like vaccines and fluoride?

      Dunno about vitamin D enrichment nutters, but I have run into some who think drinking milk is very bad for you, and that Big Dairy is hiding the evidence.

    12. Re:With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're the tool of "big dairy"!

      Don't talk about my dear sweet mother that way!

    13. Re:With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by nametaken · · Score: 1

      Are you asserting the denizens of slashdot are not an accurate reflection of society at large? Because I find that hard to believe.

      Absolutely. If I want to know what technologies will and will not end up being meaningful, I look at what Slashdot predicts. Then I assume the opposite.

      This methodology is significantly more accurate than chance.

    14. Re:With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trying way too hard.

    15. Re:With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by Nutria · · Score: 1

      You forgot the Dystopian future.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    16. Re:With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are there nutters who think that's a conspiracy, just like vaccines and fluoride?

      Dunno about vitamin D enrichment nutters, but I have run into some who think drinking milk is very bad for you, and that Big Dairy is hiding the evidence.

      Ironically full cream milk is healthier for you then skim milk (low-fat). It has something to do with the fact that apparently a lot of the nutrients in milk are better absorbed when there are fats in the mix...

    17. Re:With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Assuming you're not just kidding, I... I... I don't know if that means I need to get out more or if that means I should do no such thing! :/ Do they mean like regular dairy consumption is bad for you or consumption of absurd amounts is bad for you? Do I really want to know? I'm not even gonna Google that.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    18. Re:With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by Brett+Buck · · Score: 1

      Thank you! Don't forget to tip your waitress.

    19. Re:With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by Jeremi · · Score: 1

      As cyberpunk dystopias go, this one isn't so bad. Hell, they pay me six figures to sit in front of a computer and write programs, something that I like to do anyway. I'll take that over subsistence farming or menial labor any day of the week.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    20. Re:With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Vitamin D fat soluble, that's why they have to enrich low fat products with it. But they are often over enriched/compensated, so in the end it might not matter that the absorbance is lower.

    21. Re:With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but the cyberpunk future is all around us right now. This doesn't make alternative currencies a good idea. Money is given value by the community that uses it. If you are a part of a community, then it makes sense to use the money that is used by that community If you aren't, then invest in something tangible. The problem is if it isn't something you use, then it's not a good investment, and if it isn't durable then it isn't a good investment. That's why real estate is so popular as an investment. But real estate comes with a high tax burden, so it's got to pay for itself at higher than the rate of taxation. Money tends to get devalued by financial manipulations both of government and of financiers. Banks pay interest at less than the rate of inflation. The stock market is chancy. Etc.

      If you're young, invest in yourself. Get yourself a stronger skill set. etc. But avoid accumulating debts. Sorry to give conflicting advice, but there it is. If you learn German well enough you can get a free college education...in Germany. Possibly some other countries offer the same deal. Unfortunately, it's hard to predict what skills will continue to be valuable. Blacksmiths are doing fairly well right now, because few are being trained, and there are those who value their work...but it's easier to get trained as a welder, and specialized varieties of welding are also well compensated. You will notice that I'm mentioning professions that are already in decline, but where the number of practitioners is smaller than the demand for their skills. Rising professions tend to be targeted for automation, flooding the market by low-wage competition, etc. Plumber is probably a good choice if you can manage it, but it can be hard to get training licenses can be problematical. Etc.

      Don't take authorial fantasies as a reasonable prediction of the future. They were never intended that way, only as sketches of possibilities seen from a distant vantage point, and the authors intentionally left out anything that would be boring or detract from the story they were telling. The current world *is* the early cyberpunk era. If you look at the correct pieces of it you can see that. But it's the early part...give it another 5-10 years to get well established...and it will still have most of the people living as they do now...barring, of course, civilization collapsing.

      P.S.: You want to know why Trump is so popular? People look into the future and they get scared, and when they get scared they retreat to versions of the simple beliefs of their childhood. They are right to be scared, but that's the wrong answer. (None of the major candidates is offering a reasonable answer, but Bernie Sanders comes closest. Nothing that involves an economy centered around jobs is going to be a reasonable answer....only a recipe for a collapse of civilization. Notice how much effort is being put into developing various forms of robot soldiers.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    22. Re:With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by shawn2772 · · Score: 1

      I didn't listen long enough to get the details.

    23. Re:With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I understand. I'm going to never, ever Google that. In fact, I'm going to pretend that they were just stoned when you overheard them.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    24. Re:With the ever-looming cyberpunk future by Cyberpunk+Reality · · Score: 1

      That's why its a _cyberpunk_ dystopia, and not a post-apocalypic one.

      --
      Rule 35 of the internet: "If it can be hacked, it will be". - Charles Stross
  7. depends on what you're looking for by Trepidity · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For the short/medium-term future Bitcoin is really the only option if you want a cryptocurrency that you have any hope of using like a currency, to you know, exchange value with other people. The others, aka "altcoins", are mostly still at the stage of tech demos or niche experiments. Which can be fine if you find investigating that scene to be interesting as a hobby.

    1. Re:depends on what you're looking for by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Bitcoin is not only a good hope; it's perfectly viable for many transactions.

      I would not necessarily suggest that you hold onto much BTC, however.

      Problem is BTC has some volatility --- so it is best to keep only the small amount you need onhand to complete transactions in the near future; Replenish by purchasing more, as needed, for additional trading, but don't keep your life savings or a significant percentage of your monthly pay held as BTC.

  8. Monero by CleverBonobo · · Score: 3, Informative

    I've been into Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies since early 2011 after I saw one of the first Bitcoin slashdottings in late 2010. I went mostly "all-in" around 2012 after some trouble with my bank, never looked back, and have happily lived 90%+ crypto ever since. If I was a betting man I'd say look at Monero: http://getmonero.org/ It's definitely not "ready for primetime" just yet, but the foundation is there and is moving in the right direction. Reminds me of Bitcoin in 2011. Good luck.

    1. Re:Monero by Hognoxious · · Score: 0

      I've been into Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies since early 2011 after I saw one of the first Bitcoin slashdottings in late 2010.

      You sound just like a hipster talking about some lame-ass band.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    2. Re:Monero by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 1

      Where do you spend your bitcoin for day to day living kind of stuff? How do you avoid problems with significant value swings that the market experiences since almost no one denominates their goods in bitcoins as the primary price.

    3. Re:Monero by shurdeek · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well I'm a different guy but I also mostly live on crypto.

      > Where do you spend your bitcoin for day to day living kind of stuff?
      If I need to pay for something and the recipient doesn't have a facility to process bitcoins, I use one of the payment processors to do the transaction on my behalf or trade bitcoins for fiat myself and then pay with fiat.

      > How do you avoid problems with significant value swings that the market experiences since almost no one denominates their goods in bitcoins as the primary price.
      I don't care about the fluctuations. I view bitcoin as a superiour source of liquidity and that's more important to me than day-to-day pricing accuracy.

    4. Re:Monero by CleverBonobo · · Score: 1

      Yes perhaps, sorry about that, but I just wanted to acknowledge that it was /. that originally brought Bitcoin to my attention years ago.

    5. Re:Monero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      still kick myself for listening to all the slashdotters making fun of it back then, well done

    6. Re:Monero by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

      I wish I would have bought up bitcoins when they were worth pennies.

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    7. Re:Monero by Khyber · · Score: 1

      No, don't, because it was, and still is, a gamble.

      As of right now, China essentially controls BitCoin. The hashing power and currency concentration they currently hold means that in the future, at a whim, China could knock that currency out.

      And it is in the Communist Government's interest to do so. Just wait until China has accumulated/hoarded enough of the Bitcoin and more of the hashing power. It's going to kill it dead. Those who have not paid attention to general history will learn a painful lesson once more. Greed is what kills any economic/social/political system or currency.

      The technology will live, the currency will fail.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    8. Re:Monero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your 4.5 million digit UID and Twitter stamp suggest otherwise.

    9. Re:Monero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use one of the payment processors to do the transaction on my behalf or trade bitcoins for fiat myself and then pay with fiat.

      You really have to be gay for crypto to do all that shit just for something as simple as paying for something.

    10. Re:Monero by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I totally agree that GP is a Monday-morning quarterback.

      But I'm not sure what good it would do the Chinese government (who aren't communist, by the way) to pull the plug on it.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    11. Re:Monero by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      I view bitcoin as a superiour source of liquidity and that's more important to me than day-to-day pricing accuracy.

      Cash is still King. Very liquid, accepted almost anywhere around the world, doesn't come with the infrastructure overhead for each transaction that bitcoins have ... you can even exchange it for goods and services out at a wilderness campsite with no internet, no electricity, and no computer.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    12. Re:Monero by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Simple:
      Communism. China is a single-party republic ruled by the Communist Party.

      International Relations Theory:
      China is a right-wing Leninist State, not a Communist one. Leninism is the political theory that a single party rules the government and governs all affairs as opposed to individual politicians. The confusion stems from the fact that the single party in China is the Communist Party even though they do not practice Communist political theory, but rather state-directed, right-wing economic and political theory.

      CIA Factbook:
      The CIA classifies China's government as a "communist state". The CIA further defines communism as:

      "a system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single - often authoritarian - party holds power; state controls are imposed with the elimination of private ownership of property or capital while claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people (i.e., a classless society)."

      However, the actual functioning of Chinese society and economy is a bit schizophrenic. In its attempt to become a more powerful economic force in the world and to improve its industrial infrastructure, China's laws about private property and private companies have become more and more capitalist in nature. Property rights are starting to be taken seriously, which encourages private development and private investment in the Chinese economy.

      The communist tendency to control all industry is still at odds with this growing quasi-capitalist economy, and they have not yet worked out the difference between "restrictions for the sake of government control" and "protecting consumers from dangerous products and fraud".

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    13. Re:Monero by prezkennedy.org · · Score: 1

      You should try using cash sometime to pay for something. It's amazing what you can do without a computer. And so simple!

      --
      It started back in Team Fortress Classic
    14. Re:Monero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For certain types of transactions, I tend to agree, for example when using smaller amounts, when trade participants are in physical proximity, when there is a certain level of trust among the parties (to make sure the cash is not counterfeit), when you don't have to do bookkeeping, when you don't travel abroad or when you're satisfied with the loss of purchasing power over the time you hold said cash. For some people, this may be more frequent and relevant than for others.

      It is however a mistake to argue that cash doesn't come with infrastructure overhead. Even if we disregard ATMs (since they integrate with the banking system), there are still vending machines, cash registers, wallets, for more serious users a counterfeit detector, and still both the coins and the notes deteriorate and need to be recycled.

    15. Re:Monero by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Since we're heading into a deflationary period (Japan is already at negative interest rates), there's no loss of purchasing power for cash. Just look at gas prices as one example. Electronics are another.

      Coins last decades, if not centuries, and the new polymer money outlasts the old cotton paper money, and you just have to wipe it clean with a damp cloth. The polymer money is a lot harder to counterfeit - it's not like all you need is a scanner and a color printer any more, not with transparent embedded windows and holograms.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  9. You're too late to make money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At this point, you can pick any of them. Their value barely changes anymore.

    1. Re:You're too late to make money by RPoet · · Score: 1

      Dogecoin literally doubled in value the other week.

      --
      "Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
    2. Re:You're too late to make money by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · · Score: 1

      That's not true, Mooncoin is losing value every day.

  10. Re:Aw look by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

    Billy Idol is too modern, must be Chuck Berry.

    --
    If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  11. Privacy with bitcoin is a work in progress by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bitcoin is still the fastest growing cryptocurrency. Technology to increase privacy is already being worked on such as `Confidential transactions` and methods of mixing coins with other people. Kind of like analogous to Tor and the Internet. Private if need be. I expect any innovations that other currencies come up with will be added to bitcoin and it`s leading position will be hard to topple. It`s killer feature is the network effect and it`s access to more liquidity.

    1. Re:Privacy with bitcoin is a work in progress by Lennie · · Score: 1

      Dash seems like a pretty good implementation of coin-join, directly build into the coin.

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
  12. Off to a bad start by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    With the ever-looming cyberpunk future in close proximity,

    When you start with that postulate, you're probably going down the wrong path.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  13. that's not what it's for by ooloorie · · Score: 4, Insightful
    It's nice that people could make money by "investing" in Bitcoin in the past, but that's not what it's for. Currency speculation is not a good idea for most people, and that includes speculation in Bitcoin.

    Money is for economic transactions. Do you want to buy stuff overseas or online without using a credit card? Then consider Bitcoin. If you don't need Bitcoin for any transactions, don't bother.

    1. Re:that's not what it's for by DogDude · · Score: 1

      Why would you want to buy something online or overseas without a credit card? That 2-3% insurance (credit card fees) is well worth it to me.

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    2. Re:that's not what it's for by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Why would you want to buy something online or overseas without a credit card? That 2-3% insurance (credit card fees) is well worth it to me.

      A lot of stuff people buy online is virtual: software, books, movies, games, in-game resources, where "insurance" isn't that important. Also, while buying overseas may seem wild and risky to you, to people who have lived there (or even grown up there), it's just routine.

  14. Go back in time by Theovon · · Score: 2, Informative

    If I’d started mining bitcoin back when it first started, I might have made a lot of money by now. But I kept procrastinating, and now it’s too late. It now costs more energy to mine a coin than a coin is worth.

    Also, I should have bought Apple stock back in the 90’s.

    1. Re:Go back in time by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 2

      shoot...if people had just gone to the Gavin Andresen's bitcoin faucet back when it was doling out free bit coin by the thousands....

    2. Re:Go back in time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, I should have bought Apple stock back in the 90’s.

      You should have patented the Internet back in the 70s.

      Then you could have called it the Theovon-Net.

    3. Re:Go back in time by codebonobo · · Score: 2

      It now costs more energy to mine a coin than a coin is worth.

      This is absurd, mining difficulty is self adjusting, and the miners definitely are making small profits otherwise they wouldn't be doing it. Sure mining is professional these days so you must be very competitive to be profitable and thus the average user is better off just buying some bitcoins instead.

    4. Re:Go back in time by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Pretty much. In retrospect, I thought Bitcoin was going to be one of those geek idea that just didn't pass beyond geek circles. I was considering getting in on it when it was like $1/BTC and like.. nah... not going to happen. In retrospect it's prety obvious but hey.. it's like the dotcom boom, even if you recognized it as a bubble you could make a lot of money riding it and cashing out at the right time. Bitcoin worked because it was first and everybody was rooting for some crypocurrency to be taken seriously. All the rest seem like "get rich quick" schemes where you keep some to yourself and try to make it valuable. I still use BTC but I have the feeling it has no "natural" level, it could be worth $10 or $100 or $1000 in a while. That doesn't stop it from being used in transactions, but as an investment it's pretty fucked up.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    5. Re:Go back in time by mpeskett · · Score: 2

      Electricity costs vary; it's quite possible that it would cost more to mine using OP's power supply than they would make in mined coins.

      I would expect all the big/serious miners to have deliberately chosen to site themselves adjacent to the cheapest supply of power they can find.

    6. Re:Go back in time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, I should have bought Apple stock back in the 90’s.

      No, you should not have. You should have bought Apple stock in late September of 2001. Actually, you could have bought nearly any stock then and done well. You can do this again if you wait for the next crash, or a stupid scandal. VW stock was looking great right after that emissions bullshit hit the news, and it is bullshit, a synthetic devaluing of a great company that will fully recover.

    7. Re:Go back in time by Lennie · · Score: 1

      That is stupid, the Internet wouldn't be in such wide spread use if it was patented.

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
    8. Re:Go back in time by Lennie · · Score: 1

      1. energy costs are different in different regions, I think what he means is: he is in a region where energy isn't cheap enough
      2. some people still mine it when at a slight loss, because they expect the price to go up

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
  15. Too late. by Toasterboy · · Score: 2, Informative

    Cryptocurrency is kind of like a Ponzi scheme.

    I thought about buying some dedicated bitcoin mining hardware a couple years ago. By the time you factor in cost of electricity, probability of mining a valid coin, and the mechanism by which bitcoin increases the difficulty of mining every time a number of new coins are found, it's a losing proposition as it takes an ever increasing amount of compute power to find each new coin.

    Unless you are mining bitcoin via a botnet and you are stealing the compute and electrical resources used by the mining, it's less than break even on average, at least from a pure production standpoint.

    1. Re:Too late. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cryptocurrency is kind of like a Ponzi scheme.

      Generating the money is only the first aspect of it. Then it's simply about using it...

    2. Re:Too late. by mpeskett · · Score: 2

      the mechanism by which bitcoin increases the difficulty of mining every time a number of new coins are found

      There's a mechanism that scales the difficulty by how much compute-power is applied to the task of mining, but nothing pre-set to make each successive block more difficult to mine - it's just that most of the time the supply of computing power has been growing, so the difficulty kept going up to compensate - there have also been times where the difficulty declined.

      The closest thing to a built-in difficulty increase is a periodic halving of the amount paid for each block, but that's only happened once so far (with the next one approaching some time later this year)

    3. Re:Too late. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cryptocurrency is kind of like a Ponzi scheme.

      the mechanism by which bitcoin increases the difficulty of mining every time a number of new coins are found,

      Bitcoin doesn't increase the difficulty of mining every time new coins are found. This is a common misunderstanding and it's why Bitcoin has no resemblance to a Ponzi scheme.

    4. Re:Too late. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No idea who told you that, but this is complete nonsense.

    5. Re:Too late. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mining by itself might be a negative return, but that's what transaction fees are for. At some point, there will be no more BTC to mine, or the rate of mining will slow so much that a "break even" analysis won't even make sense, and that's why miners can prioritize transactions that include optional fees, and an alternative incentive for them to continue dedicating their hardware and electricity to support the network.

  16. What is your goal? by davidwr · · Score: 2

    Is it to trade with people using XYZ-coin? Then use XYZ-coin.

    Is it to speculate? Sorry, nobody can predict the future. A few centuries ago Tulips were all the rage, but we all know what happened to them.

    Is it market goods and services to XYZ-coin speculators? Then go with XYZ-coin so you can be part of "their community"?

    Is it to promote features like anonymity/privacy or free-as-in-freedom that are probably better in XYZ-coin than in traditional currencies? Then pick any one that meets your "base criteria" in these areas: Bitcoin not good enough for a particular metric you are looking for? Then name the specific feature that BitCoin doesn't provide (or doesn't provide well enough for your needs) and ask Slashdot for help finding an XYZcoin that does.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  17. Cryptocurrency Advice by DanielRavenNest · · Score: 5, Informative

    > Bitcoin is all the hype, but the blockchain has flaws, in that it isn't as anonymous as one would hope for — you can track past transactions.

    Bitcoin transactions record sending and receiving addresses, and the amount sent, and that's it. Privacy depends on how careful you are outside the transaction itself. For example, if you buy something physical online, and give a delivery name and address, the store knows who those bitcoins came from. But compared to a credit card or paper check, which have your name printed on them, bitcoin transactions have the *possibility* of privacy. Cash is no longer anonymous, by the way. Banks and ATMs can scan serial numbers when cash goes out and comes in. Depending how many hand-to-hand transactions happen in between, they can figure out what you were doing.

    > Rumors of Bitcoin showing cracks are popping up and also there are quite a few alternatives out there.

    The Bitcoin Network is still running fine. They are getting close to a limit in the code originally intended to stop spam transactions. That limits the size of "blocks" of transactions to 1 MB. The current arguments are over how and when to raise that cap. A majority of the network has to upgrade to raise the limit. Yes, there are lots of alternatives, because all it takes is to fork the code and slap a new name on it (it's open source). But as this table ( http://coinmarketcap.com/ ) shows, Bitcoin is 7/8 of the market, and only three others have significant market capitalization and trading volume. Building a network of users, apps, etc. for an ecosystem is a lot harder than releasing a new cryptocoin.

    > Is getting into dealing with crypto currency worthwhile already?

    It was for me, but I started in mid-2011 (from an article on Slashdot, in fact). If it is worthwhile for *you* depends on a lot of things. If you send money to family in another country, or international wire transfers, it may be very worthwhile, because of the very high fees from the other methods. If you are an average US consumer with credit and debit cards and want to shop on Amazon, not so much.

    > become easily trackable once NSA and the likes adapt their systems to doing exactly that?

    The NSA can download a copy of the blockchain, just like everyone else. What they have, that the rest of us don't, is all the other data collection that can correlate a Bitcoin transaction to a person or place. Like if you are using a smartphone app to send bitcoins, they know who owns the phone and where you were at the time

    > What digital currency has the technical and mind-share potential to supersede bitcoin?

    What social network is going to replace MySpace? :-). What OS is going to replace Windows? Predicting the future is hard, especially before it happens

    > Are there feasible cryptocurrencies that have the upsides of Bitcoin (such as a mathematical limit to their amount) but are fully anonymous in transactions?

    Bitcoin can be anonymous, but you have to use it properly for that to happen. As I said above, data leakage *around* a transaction is how you de-anonymize it. The same would be true of alt-coins (the general name for cryptocurrencies besides Bitcoin). If you use them to buy something, the seller may leak your info.

    > What do the economists and digi-currency nerds here have to contribute on that?

    Economists in general don't have the software chops to understand how cryptocurrencies work, and have religious beliefs on how economies and money *should* work. Not all of them, but a lot of them. My own opinion is bitcoin is the most developed cryptocurrency, with the most users, apps, mining hardware, etc. The direction in the future won't be replacing bitcoin with another coin, but building layers on top of Bitcoin. It's a communication protocol for scriptable transaction messages, and people have barely figured out how to make use of that. As such, it is similar to the IP protocol stack.

    1. Re:Cryptocurrency Advice by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 1

      Why wouldn't economists have the ability to understand crypto currency?

    2. Re:Cryptocurrency Advice by jareth-0205 · · Score: 0

      If half of what this guy says is true, Bitcoin is in big trouble

      https://medium.com/@octskyward...

      The blockchain issue should have been resolved months ago. It's scary how this is real money that is being controlled by such a small number of completely unaccountable people.

    3. Re: Cryptocurrency Advice by TheReaperD · · Score: 2

      Because most economists are not really strong when it comes to IT. They also have a really poor track record, as a whole, of predicting the future of the economy. Plus, those who remain professional economist are usually the people who have repeatedly guessed wrong as they still need a day job to live. Add to this is the problem that a lot of economists have a quasi-religious belief about how the economy "works." See people who fully believe the crap that the "invisible hand" of the market will correct all discrepancies, given time. This is one of the number one arguments made against any form of regulation and has repeatedly been proven to be bullshit. But, it still gets pulled out every time as the people who believe in it cannot be convinced by any amount of evidence that the "invisible hand of the market" is an economic fairy tale.

      --
      "Be particularly skeptical when presented with evidence confirming what you already believe." -
    4. Re:Cryptocurrency Advice by DogDude · · Score: 1

      Economists don't have to know anything about software to understand the underlying fundamentals (or lack thereof) of "cryptocurrency". Currency is currency. Some techies seem to think that they know everything about everything because they know some tech stuff. If I want insight into currencies, I'll talk to an economist, not a software person.

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    5. Re: Cryptocurrency Advice by Khyber · · Score: 0

      "Because most economists are not really strong when it comes to IT. They also have a really poor track record, as a whole, of predicting the future of the economy."

      And you think a bunch of IT nerds are going to be any good at predicting the future of the economy?

      Most IT geeks fail to remember history, let alone learn from it. That's why we've got the current SJW shit infesting Reddit, Twitter, and crap like Tumblr spreading around and fucking things up. That's why you've got laws going around restricting the internet well past what should be allowed, and bandwidth caps, and more.

      And those IT people have lost all control to higher-up talking heads, all in the name of money. They can't control what they once built. You think they're in any position to even ATTEMPT to control the economy?

      Can I get the number for your drug dealer?

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    6. Re:Cryptocurrency Advice by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Seriously, you didn't see that coming from day one? The deflation was massive clue number one. An anonymous founder is massive clue number two. The ponzi is shiny and techno but it's only the surface part of the stuff in cryptonomicon etc and not indicative of any goods, services or property behind it. There is no promise of value at all, merely a shiny distraction baited for geek.
      Good article though, showing that even the smoke and mirrors are substandard at this point.

    7. Re:Cryptocurrency Advice by jareth-0205 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I didn't get into it mainly because of the fluctuations in value. The 'value store' component of the currency was completely broken. To be honest I trusted the technical side of it, but it seems even that is now highly questionable.

    8. Re:Cryptocurrency Advice by dbIII · · Score: 1

      The technical side did as designed and the early adopters got a lot of people to build up the pyramid.
      Sadly it was never designed to be a solution, it was designed to look like a solution, hence the lack of features required for long term use.

    9. Re: Cryptocurrency Advice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fantastic strawman argument and a wonderful demonstration of putting words in your opponents mouth.

      I actually had to look to see if I had switched threads because you addressed exactly 0% of what he said.

    10. Re: Cryptocurrency Advice by Khyber · · Score: 0

      Your reading comprehension and inference skills must be sorely lacking, then. I suggest remedial education.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    11. Re: Cryptocurrency Advice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't understand how economists think. If they don't understand something, they'll just hire a bunch of mathematicians to do the work for them.

  18. Exchanges Can Buffer You From Fluctuations by mentil · · Score: 1

    There are exchanges that automatically eat fluctuations in Bitcoin value, so they adjust your account so you don't lose anything. The downside is that you don't gain anything on an upturn, either. I recommend YiD MOX (Yugioh: Duel Monsters Online Exchange) but in case the feds raid them or something you might want to hedge your bets with TNAP SOX (Totally Not A Pyramid Scheme Online Exchange) just to be safe.

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    1. Re:Exchanges Can Buffer You From Fluctuations by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Yugioh: Duel Monsters Online Exchange

      Obviously so much more of a professional financial services company than MTGOX (Magic The Gathering Online eXchange) :)
      If this bitcoin stuff was in a novel the editor would throw that part of the plot out due to the characters getting fooled again.

    2. Re:Exchanges Can Buffer You From Fluctuations by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Tired, so took it seriously and stupidly replied before reading the last line.

      You got me big time.

    3. Re:Exchanges Can Buffer You From Fluctuations by Lennie · · Score: 1

      Storing money at an exchange, yeah, that seems like an awesome idea.... (mt gox)

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
  19. There is a war on cash right now by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    We will need to develop something that can provide some kind of direct peer to peer method of exchange to replace it.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    1. Re:There is a war on cash right now by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      We will need to develop something that can provide some kind of direct peer to peer method of exchange to replace it.

      Cash. Preferable in large unmarked bills in a brown envelope. Tradition never gets old :-)

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    2. Re:There is a war on cash right now by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      :-) Maybe you oughta read the header...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    3. Re:There is a war on cash right now by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      If there's such a war on cash, why do they keep printing so much? Oh, wait, the war on cash is the people who make money from processing transactions who are cut out of the loop when cash is used. Nothing to prevent you from using cash ...

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    4. Re:There is a war on cash right now by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Nothing to prevent you from using cash

      That's coming later as more businesses, including your favorite KwikiMart, refuse to accept it. It's already starting with the high-enders in Europe. The industry is putting the squeeze on.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    5. Re:There is a war on cash right now by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Won't happen here because of the definition of legal tender. Same as, unlike Europe, there's no squeeze to ban burner phones or cash cards.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  20. Don't forget the IRS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you think Big Brother is invading your privacy, you are correct.
    If you think he wants to listen in on your phone and email, you are correct.
    If you think he is interested in where you get and spend your money, you are wrong.

    He is not just "interested", he will demand that information with all the force at his command.

    Crypto-currencies are being developed by banls, and they will florish with a back door.
    Find a bank-sponsored blockchain development and spend your time with it.

    Crypto-currencies are the obvious future because they can save the banks a fortune.
    But they will never be acceptable without government tracking and control.
    I could continue but I assume you are familiar with the IRS.

  21. Keep your eye on Zero Coin: The anonymous BitCoin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've been keeping my eye out on Zero Coin. It's basically the mathematical solution for turning BitCoin and/or other / new alt-coins into cash-like anonymity that we don't currently have with BitCoin or any alt-coin. We shouldn't need mixers and the like if this is done right and now we have the proofs so it's mostly a matter of implementation and getting it into the mainstream.

  22. The big banks are getting on the bitcoin wagon by eric31415927 · · Score: 1

    For the purpose of trade, let the banks handle the transaction:
    http://uk.reuters.com/article/...

    Soon, I'll be able to send funds via Bitcoin through my bank's web interface.
    I won't worry about losing my Bitcoin wallet - the bank will take over that risk.
    I'll log in and choose to send regular currency to another account; one of my options will be a Bitcoin transaction.
    My bank and the other account's bank will handle the Bitcoin.
    I'll see regular currency leave my account and the other party will see regular currency enter his/her account.

    1. Re:The big banks are getting on the bitcoin wagon by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      like... the dollar currently?

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    2. Re:The big banks are getting on the bitcoin wagon by eric31415927 · · Score: 1

      I could part with dollars, and my father-in-law could receive Euros without any delay.

    3. Re:The big banks are getting on the bitcoin wagon by Lennie · · Score: 2

      The banks will not be doing Bitcoin, they are staying as far away from that as possible.

      They'll adopt blockchain technology all right, but I'm not so sure they'll adopt a new currency. Maybe some kind of coin only used between banks.

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
  23. Look at past innovations by Powercntrl · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The automobile was more convenient than owning a horse. MP3 is more convenient than dealing with CDs. Try actually using cryptocurrency and it rapidly becomes apparent that it's far simpler just to whip out your credit/debit card, or good old cash. If you're buying something online, PayPal's more or less got your back if the seller screws you over. Ordered an iPhone and received this instead? File a claim.

    The only reason anyone bothers with Bitcoin is because they believe a bigger fool will buy the Bitcoins off of them at a later date, or because they're buying things (contraband merchandise) that they don't want legitimate payment processors knowing about. Most legitimate businesses that accept Bitcoin simply use a payment processor that immediately exchanges the Bitcoins for cash, and generally you're the one eating the transaction fees on both ends (unless you get lucky and Bitcoin fluctuates up in the time since you exchanged cash for your Bitcoins).

    If you really want to live in the brave new world of electronic payments, get a phone with NFC and try using that for awhile. You'll quickly discover it's still more convenient to use a form of payment that's accepted everywhere (cash, credit/debit), rather than remembering which merchants have functional NFC equipment and fumbling with your phone.

    --

    ---
    DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
    1. Re:Look at past innovations by Orgasmatron · · Score: 1

      The only reason anyone bothers with Bitcoin is because they believe a bigger fool will buy the Bitcoins off of them at a later date

      This is absolutely true. Of course, it is also true of dollars, gold, euros, etc. We accept our paychecks in money instead of useful goods precisely because we expect to be able to pass the money on to a bigger fool later (and he accepts it because he has the same expectation, etc).

      --
      See that "Preview" button?
    2. Re:Look at past innovations by DogDude · · Score: 1

      Riiight... the US dollar has such a terrible history, that only a "fool" would use it. Riiight...

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    3. Re:Look at past innovations by codebonobo · · Score: 1

      Paying and tipping online with Bitcoin is far quicker, more secure , and easier than using credit cards. To make a payment with a credit card You have to type a 16 digit account number, exp date , CVV number, name , full address and than you get the wonderful experience of opening yourself up to either identity theft or future credit card fraud. With bitcoin I scan a QR code, click send , enter in 6 digit pin(optional) and done... or click on payment link, click send , and enter in password for wallet on computer. Tipping is even easier as you can simply write some shortcode and tip anyone on any social media platform , I.E>> "+ChangeTip, send $2!" and they don't even have to know about bitcoin to receive it.

    4. Re:Look at past innovations by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      Secure?? How? If your Bitcoin wallet is compromised through buffer overflow in that nice NFC-handling code then your money is GONE. There's no way to rollback BTC transactions. If my credit card gets compromised, I get all my funds back and receive a new card by mail in a couple of days.

      If a bitcoin merchant sends you a bobcat, you're screwed. If a credit card merchant sends me a bobcat, I simply issue a chargeback and get all my money back.

      Where exactly is security?

    5. Re:Look at past innovations by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      What a pain. I take out my chip-and-pin debit card, type in a 4 to 6 digit number and the transaction is approved.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    6. Re:Look at past innovations by codebonobo · · Score: 1

      Where exactly is security?

      I am very careful with my credit cards and have been a victim of credit card fraud twice before and never had any issues with losing bitcoins. If my cell phone gets stolen they cannot spend my bitcoins because of a 6 digit pin, If there is a buffer overflow , or I lose/damage my cell phone I can easily recover my bitcoins with just 12 words. With bitcoin "reversability" is trivial to program in and used with either multisig escrow, or ricardian contracts... I use these all the time. There are multiple ways Bitcoin is more secure against credit cards:

      1) CC are fundamentally broken by design because you need to give over all your personal information in order to make a payment that gets handed off to multiple insecure third parties and stored where hackers/unscrupulous employees can steal at a later date.

      2) Because Bitcoin has no built in KYC , users personal details aren't necessarily included in a tx reducing the risk of identity theft

      3) CC merchants can "accidentally" make unauthorized future charges , where with bitcoin this is impossible.

      4) States can more easily freeze your account, or steal your wealth through inflation, bail ins with credit cards and fiat stored in local banks. Collecting and enforcing taxes(theft) to fund the murder and torture of humans is also easier with credit cards

      5) With bitcoin their are clever ways of dramatically increasing security with hardware wallets, mutisi or Shamir's secret sharing, or using CLTV to secure assets. Nonprofits/Corps could set up an account where is impossible for fraud or embezzlement to happen without the board voting and approving on any tx's

      6) With bitcoin there are clever ways of dramatically increasing security with hardware wallets, mutisi or Shamir's secret sharing, or using CLTV to secure assets. Nonprofits/Corps could set up an account where is impossible for fraud or embezzlement to happen without the board voting and approving on any tx's

      7) Legal Businesses can be destroyed by state pressure shutting down their account and cards. Research into Operation Choke-point.

      I understand that you believe that all you have to do is ask for a chargeback or pay the 50 dollar deductible to cover fraud with credit cards but this is false. Theft and fraud with credit cards is pervasive(far more than with bitcoin) and all users pay for it indirectly with merchant processing fees, and other fees.

  24. Interesting problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The essence of cash is having something that is hard to duplicate, but can be unambiguously passed on to someone else.
        The mystical part where folks put value in something that does not represent a useful thing in the real world is another subject.

    For Crypto currency, the system needs to permit the a potential new owner to verify that the torch of ownership is being exclusively passed to him.
    The tools available to him to do this are a public database (the block chain), anything private in the coin, and maybe the public key efforts of others.

    Getting both unambiguously passed and privacy seems an unsolved problem. Here is a scheme (probably with holes?) which may provide food for thought to improve the balance between these two competing goals:

    If the coin had a unique identifying number, then this number could be used to look into the block chain to provide a list of all the previous transactions on that coin.
    Encryption, using keys in the coin, could authenticate this record and make it viewable only by the holder of the coin.
    Given this, the potential owner should be able to verify that the transaction list in the coin matches the whole public list for the coin.
    He could then add a transaction passing the torch to himself.
    An external observer would get the public list of encrypted transactions, but not have the keys to open them, unless he was able to eventually acquire the coin.

    Note that the torch can be passed, not so much to an owner, but to whoever can view the data in the coin.
    Holder N can see everything up to transaction N. The N+1 owner should be the only one knowing the added bytes for N+1 until he passes on the coin.

    Maybe eventually somebody will get all the details right, or come up with a proof that says it can't be done. Should be an interesting technology to watch evolve.

     

    1. Re:Interesting problem by hyc · · Score: 1

      Read the cryptonote.org whitepaper, this *is* a solved problem.

      --
      -- *My* journal is more interesting than *yours*...
  25. Boat still hasn't left port by Solandri · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Bitcoin made a lot of progress on the technological front, but its economics is flawed because it limits the number of bitcoins which can be mined, and makes them progressively harder to mine as more are found. This is the same flaw behind using gold as your currency standard, and will cause the same problem - economic instability via repeated bouts of deflation. Basically, because the amount of gold (bitcoins) doesn't grow as quickly as the size of the economy, prices for things in that currency start to go down.

    Vastly simplifying the economy into one currency and one product, today there are x bitcoins and you make y widgets. The price for a widget is thus proportional to x/y. Tomorrow, the number of bitcoins hasn't increased as quickly as your economic activity is increasing. There are 1.2x bitcoins, but you make 1.5 widgets. The price for a widget becomes proportional to 1.2x/1.5y = 0.8x/y. In other words, deflation - a widget is only worth 80% what it was yesterday.

    Now apply the same principle to all goods and services, and the price of everything is going down (actually the price of bitcoins is going up). Once people start to understand what's happening, they stop buying things. They want to wait until the last possible minute, until they absolutely need an item, to buy it because the longer they wait (the longer they hold onto their bitcoins), the less it will cost. This slowdown in economic activity causes a recession, which decreases the number of widgets that are made until once again their price goes up (because not enough are being made to meet demand), which starts the same process over again. Economic instability.

    That's why every major economy has abandoned the gold standard for a fiat currency. Yes a fiat currency can be abused if the people in charge of it are corrupt. But used properly with the money meted out at about the rate the economy is growing, prices remain stable and so is the economy. Just look at the list of recessions in the U.S. pre-1933 and post-1933 when the U.S. went off the gold standard. The economy has been much more stable with a fiat currency. That's what needs to happen with a cryptocurrency for the "boat to leave port." If someone can come up with a cryptocurrency which is independent of central control, yet its supply increases at roughly the same rate the economy expands, that is the boat you want to get on. It just won't be as lucrative for early adopters as bitcoin because it won't be a ponzi scheme.

    1. Re:Boat still hasn't left port by codebonobo · · Score: 1

      they stop buying things. They want to wait until the last possible minute, until they absolutely need an item, to buy it because the longer they wait (the longer they hold onto their bitcoins), the less it will cost.

      I understand this is what your intuition tells you, but the data reflects the exact opposite. During periods of rapid deflation (appreciation due to adoption) in bitcoin charitable donations and spending on good and services actually spikes up from the data coming from btc payment processors. They speculate this is because of the "wealth effect" where people are more comfortable spending and donating because they feel wealthier(as they are).

      If someone can come up with a cryptocurrency which is independent of central control, yet its supply increases at roughly the same rate the economy expands, that is the boat you want to get on. It just won't be as lucrative for early adopters as bitcoin because it won't be a ponzi scheme.

      Those alt crypto tokens you propose already exist and "compete" with bitcoin. Bitcoins dis-inflationary model thus far is superior.... time will tell I suppose. Please look up the definition of a ponzi scheme also as it doesn't apply to Bitcoin.

    2. Re:Boat still hasn't left port by jdavidb · · Score: 0, Troll

      The above analysis is completely flawed. For a better understanding of the gold standard, see https://mises.org/money.asp

    3. Re:Boat still hasn't left port by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately his comment gets a score of 5 and yours gets a 2. This is because people are generally fools whose opinions are based on a vast echo-chamber of disinformation, instead of critical thought.

    4. Re:Boat still hasn't left port by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am challenging this, because on the average, the economy might seemed to have recovered... but if you look at main street, and not Wall Street, it paints an extremely different, and far worse picture.

      For example, unemployment. The numbers are lower, because if someone isn't employed for more than 6-12 months, or under-employed, they don't count. There are a lot of people working 2-3 shit jobs just to try to pay the rent. (I live in a state where bestiality is legal, owning 5+ dildos is a state jail felony... and even here, a 1bd/bath apt rental costs $1300 anywhere near the capital city. If it is like this in a flyover state, then it is far worse in areas of the US that actually matter.)

      A Wally World opened up in a nearby town about a year ago. For the few jobs they had, they had 500+ people applying for them.

      We can just look at Slashdot and read about the difficulty for finding work. Stories of CS grads having to enlist in the Army, with whatever MOS the recruiter needed the most. Stories about NASA engineers who can't find any work in their field because a bargain-basement foreigner on a H-1B or H-2B visa doing their jobs and filling out the requirement for diversity requirements. Stories about people who are extremely competent losing their houses because they got laid off, and just can't find work. These stories are from 2015... not 2008.

      So, all in all, even though the job loss has stopped... people laid off are not working still, and if they do, they are working for far less pay.

      So, when someone says that the days of recessions are over, or the economy is recession-proof, they need to check their facts. A few people are making it big... the rest of the population getting poorer and poorer.

    5. Re:Boat still hasn't left port by TapeCutter · · Score: 2

      First let me say I agree with your post, rapid deflation is as bad or worse as rapid inflation. Stability is desirable however it also has problems, "growth" is in many ways just another way of saying "increased efficiency. So today's widget should be cheaper than yesterday's because it's cheaper and easier to make than yesterday's widget. This may in turn spur more growth since you would expect the number of widgets sold to increase as their price decreases. In this way society as a whole benefits from growth, stopping that "natural" deflation means that those who control production reap ALL the benefits of growth. This is what people are currently pissed off about, the last three decades have seen little or no real wage growth, all that growth has gone into the pockets of those few who control production. Sure they helped create that growth, but no more than the people who clean the executive bathroom who gave them the time to do so.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    6. Re:Boat still hasn't left port by shurdeek · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This post mixes several phenomena and omits other factors relevant for the positions. For example, "Once people start to understand what's happening, they stop buying things.". There are situations where a falling price level and a drop in consumer expenditures correlated positively, but there are also situations where they correlate negatively. I for example tend to behave exactly the opposite way as you describe: when the price of bitcoin is falling, I tend to cut my expenditures, and when it's rising, I tend to increase the expenditures. It's not the only factor influencing my decisions of course.

      A while ago, two economists working at the Minneapolis Fed published a paper: https://ideas.repec.org/p/fip/... where they analyse the empirical link between deflation (i.e. a falling price level) and depression, and find that outside of the Great Depression in the 1930s they can't find such a connection. They write: "A broad historical look finds many more periods of deflation with reasonable growth than with depression and many more periods of depression with inflation than with deflation."

      As the Austrian school explains, the business cycle is caused by fractional reserve banking, and the recession is a necessary consequence of the misallocations that happen during the boom preceding the recession. But since mainstream economic schools lack a theory of capital, instead they view the business cycle through aggregate values, they can't assess the argument this way.

    7. Re:Boat still hasn't left port by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes, let's trust a link to a right wing libertarian propaganda institute instead of reality. If you assume gold is more 'real' than any other currency, you've already lost. Gold is just fiat currency with a fixed supply.

    8. Re:Boat still hasn't left port by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and post-1933 when the U.S. went off the gold standard.

      The US technically didn't go off the gold standard until 1971 when President Nixon finally closed the gold window at the Federal Reserve to foreign governments. Before that time foreign governments, especially the French, could and did demand gold in return for dollars.

    9. Re: Boat still hasn't left port by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because of corruption we can't have nice economies. Analyze that. The only way I feel it will work is if it is both anonymous and robust enough to be secure from the thieves

    10. Re: Boat still hasn't left port by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here is a commentary from 2014 about how decentralization helps the developing world. Or more likely, how they are being taken advantage of by the current banking systems.
      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=97ufCT6lQcY

    11. Re: Boat still hasn't left port by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Security from thieves is one thing, how about security from hoarders?

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    12. Re:Boat still hasn't left port by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      Austrian religion (it's not a "school"), as usual does not make predictions. It doesn't use models so it can't do that.

      According to mainstream economy, deflation happens because consumers DO NOT HAVE MONEY to spend. So the producers have to cut prices to sell at least _something_. This in turn leads to wage decreases and layoffs. And this in turn leads to consumers having less money. Rinse, wash, repeat.

      Reality is often a little bit messier - wages rarely fall in nominal values, they tend to stick at zero growth. So nominal deflation doesn't appear, instead no-flation (1% inflation) happens. See: "European Union", "Japan".

    13. Re:Boat still hasn't left port by shurdeek · · Score: 1

      > Austrian religion (it's not a "school"), as usual does not make predictions. It doesn't use models so it can't do that.
      Austrian approach does not view economics as science, rather as a deductive study. So it cannot make predictions. This is why it clashes with mainstream economics, which attempts to be a science. I will leave open the question whether economics can or cannot be a science, rather I'll point out that I often see ideological assumptions (in particular the belief in central planning) bundled into what purports to be science.

      > According to mainstream economy, deflation happens because consumers DO NOT HAVE MONEY to spend. So the producers have to cut prices to sell at least _something_. This in turn leads to wage decreases and layoffs. And this in turn leads to consumers having less money. Rinse, wash, repeat.
      You probably wanted to say "recessions happen because customers do not have money". Deflations (in the sense of falling price levels) occur in other situations too (for example increases in productivity that outpace the increase in the money supply) and don't necessarily have the effects associated with recession.

      The Austrian approach (see http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Aus... ) to the business cycle is based on three issues: cluster of entrepreneurial errors, capital goods prices fluctuating more than those of consumer goods, and why the cycle tends to happen around changes in the money supply.

      Let's take your argument, the customers losing money. Why are there whole sectors of economy that are unable to foresee this? If they foresaw it, they would have adjusted their production structure to the falling price level. But it comes unexpected to whole sectors rather than merely individual businesses. Your proposition does not explain why. The Austrians argue that this is due to faulty price signals caused by the changes in the money supply.

      > Reality is often a little bit messier - wages rarely fall in nominal values, they tend to stick at zero growth. So nominal deflation doesn't appear, instead no-flation (1% inflation) happens. See: "European Union", "Japan".
      This does not explain, among other things, why:
      1. There are situations where a falling price level does not cause a recession (say in the consumer electronics sector, or the examples from the Atkeson/Kehoe paper I linked)?
      2. Whole sectors cannot foresee this and adjust in advance?

    14. Re:Boat still hasn't left port by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If only the devs of cryptocurrencies know the future of the planet, then they could make your algorithm to automagically factor in inflation.. GREAT IDEA BRO!

      Where do you think inflation comes from? Do you think it comes from space? Is it a force of the universe? Does history show that the planet is a perfectly stable marble floating around a warm fuzzy fireball?

      No? Well then you can't predict inflation, you can only adjust for it and a cryptocurrency should not be adjusted. You make the currency and it is what it is, people can adjust values to inflation much easier than the devs can predict inflation. If you start tweaking it people will lose confidence quickly.

      The big problem with crypto is that the people holding trillions of dollars don't really want a competing unregulated semi anonymous money system. If they did, we'd already have one, not more of less exactly the opposite. Being able to verify and track purchases is pretty sweet and you can't do much of that without the good old charge back. BTC Is a neat work around to a much bigger problem that BTC itself can in no real way address... the worlds banking monopolies. If we want to change that, we simply vote, which is vastly more powerful than a few billion dollar market in alternate currency.

      Still, it's not a scam. It's holding value and some big name places take it. A simple online wallet like Coinbase can make the payments in 2-3 clicks.

      BTC is also a lot more secure because instead of your CC number being saved in hundreds of different servers for all the different retailers, there is nothing to save and steal for later use. Hackers have to target the online wallets which means less points of failure for users/customers in the BTC model than in the CC model. CC information gets stolen and used for fraud all the time. With BTC that info doesn't get put out there and no personal info is needed.

    15. Re:Boat still hasn't left port by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please look up the definition of a ponzi scheme also as it doesn't apply to Bitcoin.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    16. Re: Boat still hasn't left port by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realise that the definition of "fiat currency" is that the supply of money is not fixed, right?

    17. Re:Boat still hasn't left port by jdavidb · · Score: 1

      There is nothing right wing about mises.org

    18. Re:Boat still hasn't left port by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Deflation is essentially the pyramid scheme that everyone is posting about.

      In a deflationary currency, people who hoard the currency gain value over time. If you get in at the beginning and hold large quantities for a long time, then you've got a tremendous value advantage over later starting players.

      If you notice, no _real_ currency stays deflationary for long - the rich already have too many ways to get richer, they don't need deflationary currency to give them another advantage.

    19. Re:Boat still hasn't left port by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Mild inflation - keeping currency availability constant on a per-capita basis as population grows - might be considered a desirable economic stability target. Whether or not population growth is desirable is probably leaving the field of economics and getting into (bigger, more important?) questions of ecology and balance of power between nations.

      In reality, a certain degree of uncertainty has always been present in western economies, communism as implemented in the USSR did remove a great deal of uncertainty (fixed rents and food costs), but that didn't do great things for the economy overall. It did provide people with a very different perspective on life and a great deal of security that they could at least depend on their sucky old building, unreliable heat and bad food to always be there for them - but in that implementation improving one's own standard of living was almost impossible to achieve, so most people didn't bother to try and things stagnated/deteriorated while the west moved forward.

    20. Re:Boat still hasn't left port by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      The thing I notice most consistently in economic discussion is the lack of agreement over virtually everything, except that fact that the people running things don't really know what they are doing.

    21. Re:Boat still hasn't left port by Lennie · · Score: 1

      No just means you are early after the comment was posted, the moderators aren't magic. It's at 4 now.

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
    22. Re:Boat still hasn't left port by Lennie · · Score: 1

      I think it not only happens when they don't have money to spend, but also when they don't want to spend.

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
    23. Re:Boat still hasn't left port by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The reason is that deflation is only bad when combined with the effects of contraction of fractional.
      People spending less when the economy contracts is exactly what is needed: there is less to divide so people must become most austere.

      The common quoted allusion to the gold standard is misdirection; gold has been fractionally reserved since the time of the romans, and the gold standard was never truly adhered to by any government since those ancient times.

      Bitcoin cannot easily be so reserved; and thus it functions to restore the natural role of deflation and inflation to beneficial signals of market state.

    24. Re:Boat still hasn't left port by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is that if a currency only becomes inflationary, it changes who owns the currency to people who have the resources to have as little as possible in the currency, or have investments that have interest rates based on the inflation rate to counteract it. If a currency inflates and deflates, it winds up being more fair than one which only will get smaller over time because it becomes a game of selling short.

      This is why we see all major currencies with a measure of "healthy" inflation built in. For most people with bank accounts, it means their dollar is worth less, but for others who can move currencies offshore, it means their buying power is stronger.

    25. Re:Boat still hasn't left port by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're assuming that deflation is a cause of "problems" like falling prices when the falling prices and deflation are symptoms.

    26. Re:Boat still hasn't left port by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      Austrian approach does not view economics as science, rather as a deductive study.

      Well, yes. It's a religion, or more appropriately a cult. It has a set of pre-determined conclusions and finds excuses for them. E.g.: "Economy is doing great - a good time to cut taxes on the rich and reduce social safety network!", "Economy is sputtering - need to reduce taxes on the rich and kick poor people more, so they work harder!", "Economy is crashing - that's because taxes were not reduced enough, cancel taxes on the rich and force all those lazy poor to work for slave wages!".

      So answer this simple question: when is it a good time to raise taxes and improve social safety net?

      You probably wanted to say "recessions happen because customers do not have money". Deflations (in the sense of falling price levels) occur in other situations too (for example increases in productivity that outpace the increase in the money supply) and don't necessarily have the effects associated with recession.

      No. I was precise in my description. Deflation happens ONLY when consumers have no free money to spend. I've actually studied ALL the documented episodes of deflation in the last 120 years in all of the countries. Out of 60 cases there was only ONE exception (Sweden, 1992) where a nominal deflation coincided with economic recovery, and that's only because deflationary processes had been arrested by a quick and decisive stimulus actions, helped by increased export revenue.

      Deflation does not always lead to Depression-scale slowdowns, but it's never associated with good times.

      1. There are situations where a falling price level does not cause a recession (say in the consumer electronics sector, or the examples from the Atkeson/Kehoe paper I linked)?

      There are no such situations.

    27. Re:Boat still hasn't left port by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Well, yes. It's a religion, or more appropriately a cult. It has a set of pre-determined conclusions and finds excuses for them.
      It would be beneficial if you provided actual arguments.

      > E.g.: "Economy is doing great - a good time to cut taxes on the rich and reduce social safety network!", "Economy is sputtering - need to reduce taxes on the rich and kick poor people more, so they work harder!", "Economy is crashing - that's because taxes were not reduced enough, cancel taxes on the rich and force all those lazy poor to work for slave wages!".
      This has nothing to do with the Austrian school. I don't know where you get this from.

      > So answer this simple question: when is it a good time to raise taxes and improve social safety net?
      This is a normative question. It has nothing to do with either science or economics. Also, it implies the belief in central planning, exactly as I worried earlier.

      > No. I was precise in my description. Deflation happens ONLY when consumers have no free money to spend.
      This contradicts empirical data, even though I explained when it is not the case.

      > I've actually studied ALL the documented episodes of deflation in the last 120 years in all of the countries. Out of 60 cases there was only ONE exception (Sweden, 1992) where a nominal deflation coincided with economic recovery, and that's only because deflationary processes had been arrested by a quick and decisive stimulus actions, helped by increased export revenue.
      So why do Atkeson and Kehoe contradict you, and why have we had a falling price level in consumer electronics for decades while the sector is growing?

      > There are no such situations.
      I think you're a troll. You haven't replied to any of my questions and you contradict emprical data. Paradoxically, you label my position as cultist while behaving like one yourself.

  26. Re:Aw look by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you say so grandpa.

  27. All blockchains track users. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is the nature of the process and why it works. It is how it verifies trades. It is also why it is useful for keeping land record and especially dealing with corruption in transactions. Perhaps a lot more reading will help you understand block chains.

  28. Bitcoin, Ethereum or Monero by Canth7 · · Score: 1

    There are only two cryptocurrencies with any real momentum today: Bitcoin and Ethereum. The former has a huge head start, while Ethereum is more ambitious and attempts to offer a broader platform for running smart contracts. On the fringe you can add Monero or possibly Zcash (doesn't exist yet) as more privacy centric options. If you believe that any of these have a chance for broader adoption and use then you're still very early in the game as far as investments go. On the other hand, they could all fail and go to zero.

    1. Re:Bitcoin, Ethereum or Monero by TeknoHog · · Score: 2

      On the fringe you can add Monero

      Fringe? IMHO, Monero is the Microsoft of second generation cryptocurrencies -- it's the big, slow, conservative choice of Cryptonote coins. For a leaner and generally more interesting alternative, have a look at Boolberry, but keep Monero in mind for long-term investment. (At the moment, a Monero node is taking over 14 GB of virtual memory on my machine, Boolberry "only" 4.)

      It looks like the OP is a newbie to cryptocoins, so let me elaborate a bit. Traditional 'altcoins' are based on the Bitcoin codebase, so for things like proper anonymity, look for independently developed codebases such as Cryptonote (whose implementations include Monero and Boolberry) and Ethereum.

      For mining profitability, Boolberry and Ethereum on GPUs are doing nicely at the moment, Bitcoin and Monero not so much. Of course, this may change rapidly and you need to do your homework. Good old bitcointalk.org is still a useful hangaround for learning about coins, though many notable coins have their own forums for more detail.

      Bitcoin is still the gold standard in value of cryptocoins, technically viable and well accepted by merchants. Forget about mining it, but don't dismiss it otherwise. For example, the programming aspects of Ethereum were largely present in Bitcoin already, it's just that Ethereum takes these to the front stage and makes them easier to use.

      http://iki.fi/teknohog/hacks/c...

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    2. Re:Bitcoin, Ethereum or Monero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The VRAM issue was fixed. The latest Monero update represents over a year of work and thousand of comits. It is the shit!

    3. Re:Bitcoin, Ethereum or Monero by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      The VRAM issue was fixed. The latest Monero update represents over a year of work and thousand of comits. It is the shit!

      I always build my daemon from the latest github. Anyway, this isn't the only issue making it slow/heavy/conservative when compared to something like Boolberry.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    4. Re:Bitcoin, Ethereum or Monero by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Bitcoin is still the gold standard in value of cryptocoins

      Oh, the irony, oh the absurdity ... the gold standard died decades ago ...

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    5. Re:Bitcoin, Ethereum or Monero by hyc · · Score: 1

      You're talking about two very different things. The old Monero (pre-0.9) kept the entire blockchain in RAM and so required huge amounts of RAM to be installed in the machine. The current version uses LMDB which is a memory-mapped database. The mmap may use a huge chunk of *virtual address space* but it never uses more than the currently available amount of RAM.

      It is vastly more efficient than the old code. It also vastly more efficient and more reliable than LevelDB, which is used in Bitcoin.

      --
      -- *My* journal is more interesting than *yours*...
    6. Re:Bitcoin, Ethereum or Monero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here are two daemons (mainnet and testnet) on OS X: http://i.imgur.com/ty6bkRX.png

      Here's a daemon (mainnet) on Windows: http://i.imgur.com/nPIELl9.png

      Also I respect crypto_zoidberg, but to say that Monero is conservative compared to Boolberry is just absurd. There are dubious design decisions around its minimum mixin flag on transactions, its land-rushed alias system, and its permanent signature pruning. It's also basically abandoned because the author wanted to mess around with creating a PoS currency - doesn't exactly bode well for any potential future.

    7. Re:Bitcoin, Ethereum or Monero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I always build my daemon from the latest github.

      If you always build your daemon from the latest master, you must have failed to update for the last 6 months at least.

      Does BBR really need 4GB RAM to run? Wow!
      People report the monero daemon using less than 100MB nowadays, and I myself have it running between 100 and 300MB on http://moneroblocks.info. (which currently is the only blockexplorer that shows the participating inputs in the ring-sig ;) )

      Also, sync time with an SSD and decent network connection gets done in a couple of hours.

      Don't take my word on it, people! Go try it out: https://getmonero.org/downloads/

      Anyway, this isn't the only issue making it slow/heavy/conservative when compared to something like Boolberry.

      Do you want to enlighten us?

      Or maybe you think that active development makes things go "slow/heavy/conservative"?

      https://github.com/cryptozoidberg/boolberry/graphs/contributors
      https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/graphs/contributors

    8. Re:Bitcoin, Ethereum or Monero by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      You're talking about two very different things. The old Monero (pre-0.9) kept the entire blockchain in RAM and so required huge amounts of RAM to be installed in the machine. The current version uses LMDB which is a memory-mapped database. The mmap may use a huge chunk of *virtual address space* but it never uses more than the currently available amount of RAM.

      Ah, I didn't realize that. I recently reinstalled Monero when I got a big-ass machine with tons of RAM, and I wasn't sure if its performance was due to the hardware or other improvements. (Previously, it was a pain to use on machines with a measly 8 GB memory.)

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  29. I'm selling my poop by goombah99 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Like bitcoin only a certain amount of my poop is minted each day. It's cant be forged because it's loaded with my DNA. and when I die theres a maximum amount that will be in circulation. Like cash it's not traceable. You can divide it finely. Anybody want to invest?

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:I'm selling my poop by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Like bitcoin only a certain amount of my poop is minted each day. It's cant be forged because it's loaded with my DNA. and when I die theres a maximum amount that will be in circulation. Like cash it's not traceable. You can divide it finely. Anybody want to invest?

      I'm in, send me a pound or two at the ummm current market value.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    2. Re: I'm selling my poop by Mike+Buddha · · Score: 1

      Corn coin!

      --
      by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
    3. Re:I'm selling my poop by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Shitcoin!

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    4. Re:I'm selling my poop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You claim to have worked for Microsoft. Prove it, or did we get you in another lie JustAnotherBLOWHARDDoucheLIAR?

    5. Re: I'm selling my poop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why are you a moron?

    6. Re: I'm selling my poop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      s/^.*blowhard.*$/shit post/I

    7. Re:I'm selling my poop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go away, APK.

  30. Ethereum for general purposes, more details within by JeffreyBPetersen · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Bitcoin is all the hype, but the blockchain has flaws, in that it isn't as anonymous as one would hope for — you can track past transactions. Is Bitcoin the way to go, or will it falter under wide use / become easily trackable once NSA and the likes adapt their systems to doing exactly that? Are there feasible cryptocurrencies that have the upsides of Bitcoin (such as a mathematical limit to their amount) but are fully anonymous in transactions?

    There are a number of properly anonymous cryptocurrencies now. Dash (formerly Darkcoin) and Monero are current market leaders. Zerocoin is a notable new contender as it uses zero-knowledge proofs which are as good as you can get on anonymity. Bitcoin on the other hand would require dramatic changes which are very unlikely to receive support from the institutions involved with it.

    So I have some questions: Is getting into dealing with crypto currency worthwhile already?

    Only if you're a fan of economics and programming. It's still very much in the experimental phase of technological maturity.

    Rumors of Bitcoin showing cracks are popping up and also there are quite a few alternatives out there. And does Bitcoin own the market or is it still flexible enough for an technology upgrade?

    There's currently a holy war going on between different groups of Bitcoin developers on how to upgrade network protocol, which is sorely needed given Bitcoin's dinosaur status in the field. Looking at that there's definitely not much flexibility. There's also not much of a market to own yet, so despite its network effects, Bitcoin could easily be dethroned by a cryptocurrency with actual momentum in becoming useful beyond largely experimental purposes.

    What digital currency has the technical and mind-share potential to supersede bitcoin? What do the economists and digi-currency nerds here have to contribute on that?

    Ethereum has by far the strongest development community at the moment. It's also designed to maximize flexibility in what it can be used for, giving it abilities to adopt new features as needed without requiring agreement among those using it (pick and choose which features you want to use for all but the most fundamental).

    What are your experiences with handling and holding cryptocurrency?

    Dodged a couple exchange collapses, scary stuff. Keeping wallets local, encrypted, and with multiple backups is a considerably safer experience and doesn't require too much involvement. Getting holdings in the first place is also a hassle.

  31. Yes by DoctorBit · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The best time to get into crypto-currency is six years ago. The second-best time is today.

  32. Good idea, but not ready for primetime by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

    I like the idea of a crypto-currency, but like the title says, I don't think it's ready for primetime. At the moment there are too many holes and ways for things to go bad with a crypto-currency. Maybe some or all of these holes will be fixed, maybe not.

    Based on the current state of computer security, though, I don't see how some of these holes can ever really be closed, or at least mitigated to a significant degree of safety.

    The attack surface for a crypto-currency seems large, very large. That's kinda scary to anyone thinking of putting money into any crypto-currency.

    Also, there doesn't seem (as yet) to be a mechanism to replaces losses incurred by innocent parties. So far it seems like if the clearinghouse or "bank" or repository gets cracked, you're just screwed. That's not true of ordinary banks, if someone robs or defrauds a bank, you still have your money.

    Unfortunately, the very nature of current crypto-currency models doesn't appear to allow for any kind of insurance to be put in place. Part of this may be due to the fact that current models have a built-in limit to the amount of currency that can ever be minted. That seems like a flaw to me (although I'd be the first to admit I'm no expert on crypto-currencies).

    Seriously, I like the idea of a crypto-currency, but I see what appear to be some serious, real-world problems that seem like they would hamper its widespread adoption.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    1. Re:Good idea, but not ready for primetime by mlts · · Score: 1

      Right now, we are seeing version 1.0 and version 1.1 of cryptocurrencies.

      I can see a version 2.0 of a cryptocurrency coming out, with some features to help:

      1: Escrow. It would be nice if a third party, Charlie, could be part of the transaction, and Alice and Bob's transaction it wouldn't be completed until Charlie gives the OK. If Charlie doesn't give the OK, Bob doesn't get the currency... eventually after a selected timeout, the coins wind up back with Alice. Or, it could be configured the other way, where Bob gets his coins if Charlie doesn't step in and say "no" after a period of time. Of course, there can be collusion between Charlie and either Alice or Bob to fuck over the other party, but having the -option- for an escrow service so both parties are happy would go far in making a currency usable for trades.

      2: Auditing. The ability for a party to tag their own expenses with their own ID for something, so they can in the future run through the blockchain, and find all occurances of that ID. It would be equal to the "For:" line on a checkbook.

      3: Refunds. The ability for both parties to reverse a transaction, on the premise of the item in question being returned. This will go a long way in proving ownership of something if it gets questioned.

      4: Disabling spending of currency for a period of time. This adds a "timelock" value, so if the currency owner is going to be gone for six months, even if someone has access to the wallet, the coins can't be spent. Of course, once the time expires, it becomes a race between the legit owner and anyone else who has access to the wallet's private key, but it is a way to ensure coins are not going to be gone while someone is on a trip. Of course, this value should be limited to a fairly period of time (6-12 months), so coins are not tossed out of the economy permanently.

      5: Similar to #4, but disabling spending of coins for a period of time... but allow them to be re-enabled if another wallet or private key gives the go-ahead. This way, one can have one wallet that coins go in, set a time lock, but still have an offline wallet that can re-enable use of the coins should the need arise.

      6: A way to mark part of the transaction as sales tax (with the receiver agreeing on that), so the sender is showing that the 110 units they are paying, 100 are for the product, the rest are going for taxes like a VAT or the like. Similar to #2, but covering the tax angle. In case of audit, it would be easy to just show the blockchain and that the receiver acknowledged that the tax was properly paid.

      7: A way to preen the blockchain after a period of time, say seven years of older transactions, but still keep the crystallographic integrity of the entire thing. This way, eventually, the blockchain size will tend to stabilize as soon as old transactions get expired.

      I'm sure there are other ways, but adding some cryptographic tricks (like escrow and moving coins out of play for a period of time) will definitely add to currency security.

    2. Re:Good idea, but not ready for primetime by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      I think these are all good ideas.

      As crypto-currencies mature I'd love to see these be implemented. Each new feature can bring its own problems, of course, but overall I think what you mentioned would make for a much more secure, reliable, and trustable currency. I think trust is key to generating widespread adoption by the average person.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    3. Re:Good idea, but not ready for primetime by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many of these features already exist in bitcoin. Bitcoin transactions also are based on a scripting language, so it is relatively easy to create new transaction types and features.

    4. Re:Good idea, but not ready for primetime by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      Many of these features already exist in bitcoin. Bitcoin transactions also are based on a scripting language, so it is relatively easy to create new transaction types and features.

      True. However, the distributed programming aspect is much more prominent in Ethereum, while the Bitcoin community is still largely focused on simple payments.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    5. Re:Good idea, but not ready for primetime by molecular · · Score: 1

      What "holes" you talk about are there in cryptocurrency?
      Also: there is no clearinghouse or "bank" repository that can "get cracked"

      honestly, I think you should "get your hands dirty" and play with some bitcoin or other crypto. Doesn't have to be more than a dollar worth, so it's not as bad when you lose them in case something goes bad.

    6. Re:Good idea, but not ready for primetime by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody cares what you think. You don't even know what thought is. Real critical thought is a foreign concept to you. I see you claim to have worked for Microsoft. Care to back up that claim as truth or did we get you in another lie JustAnotherBLOWHARDDoucheLIAR?

    7. Re:Good idea, but not ready for primetime by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You claim to have worked for Microsoft. Prove it, or is it yet another lie from you JustAnotherOldBLOWHARDDoucheLIAR?

    8. Re:Good idea, but not ready for primetime by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Doesn't have to be more than a dollar worth, so it's not as bad when you lose them in case something goes bad.

      Well there's a ringing endorsement if I ever heard one.

      What you wrote is exactly why people like me are leery of crypto-currency...the whole "in case something goes bad" thing, which doesn't seem to ever happen when I deposit my money in a bank.

      Bank gets robbed: I still have my money.
      Bank goes under: I still have my money (FDIC).
      Bank goes out of business: I still have my money.
      I lose my debit card: I still have my money.
      Mutant reptilians from Jupiter blow up the Earth: Okay, ya got me there, in that case my money is gone.
      Madonna comes out with a new album: I still have my money.
      My computer get haxor3d: I still have my money.

      Until something-coin can offer the same relative security as a bank, I'll pass. I like the idea, but it's too risky for now.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    9. Re:Good idea, but not ready for primetime by molecular · · Score: 1

      > > Doesn't have to be more than a dollar worth, so it's not as bad when you lose them in case something goes bad.

      > Well there's a ringing endorsement if I ever heard one.

      > What you wrote is exactly why people like me are leery of crypto-currency...the whole "in case something goes bad" thing, which doesn't seem to ever happen when I deposit my money in a bank.

      You wouldn't believe the amount of noobs complaining that "the price has dropped since I bought in, this wasn't supposed to happen" or "I forgot my wallet password, can you help me?". That's the most common "bad things" that can happen. That's why I suggest a very small amount to begin with so they can learn.

    10. Re:Good idea, but not ready for primetime by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      You wouldn't believe the amount of noobs complaining that "the price has dropped since I bought in, this wasn't supposed to happen"

      Wait, there's risk involved? :) lol

      Seriously, though...I know the dollar fluctuates and that's normal, but the value of Bitcoin (for example) seems to be wildly variable. Over the last 4 or 5 years it's gone from under $10 up to ~$1200 and is now (today) under $400...that kind of volatility seems crazy scary to me....if my bank balance was subject to that kind of real-world fluctuation I'd be freaking out every day. "I had $10,000 in the bank yesterday and today it's down to $2800...WTF?"

      or "I forgot my wallet password, can you help me?". That's the most common "bad things" that can happen.

      I hear you (and that's good advice) but if I lose my wallet somehow, no matter what, my money will still be in the bank. Even if someone uses my bankcard I'll still get my money back. Losing a wallet, virtual or otherwise, should never result in a financial disaster or an irrecoverable loss of funds.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    11. Re:Good idea, but not ready for primetime by molecular · · Score: 1

      I hear you (and that's good advice) but if I lose my wallet somehow, no matter what, my money will still be in the bank. Even if someone uses my bankcard I'll still get my money back. Losing a wallet, virtual or otherwise, should never result in a financial disaster or an irrecoverable loss of funds.

      Bitcoin is digital cash. You lose it, it's gone. That's part of the design, a feature, not a bug. A feature I happen to like: double spend protection, no replacing of lost/stolen Bitcoins out of thin air.

      There are, however, ways to protect funds from loss by stupidity (hd fail and no backup or misplaced pw, involuntary encryption maleware) and/or theft: Multisig can really help here.
       

    12. Re:Good idea, but not ready for primetime by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Bitcoin is digital cash. You lose it, it's gone. That's part of the design, a feature, not a bug.

      That's a feature I'd pay not to have.

      If my bank loses my money, they'll replace it and in the end I still have my money. I like that feature.

      The last thing I want is for my bank to call me and say, "Errr, yeah...you know all that money you had in your account? Well, umm, we lost it, and it's gone forever."

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  33. Monero by djleo · · Score: 1

    Is getting into dealing with crypto currency worthwhile already?

    Yes

    Is Bitcoin the way to go, or will it falter under wide use / become easily trackable?

    Bitcoin is possible to get and use anonymously (LocalBitcoins or some ATMs) but it is cumbersome to manage anonymity by default. Recommend buying a small amount of Bitcoin and converting it into Monero using Poloniex or ShapeShift.

    What digital currency has the technical and mind-share potential to supersede bitcoin?

    Monero is a very interesting crypto currency because it is based on mathematical proofs. The maths is too heavy for me but I believe its community has the mind-share potential to supersede Bitcoin.

    Are there feasible cryptocurrencies that have the upsides of Bitcoin (such as a mathematical limit to their amount) but are fully anonymous in transactions?

    While Monero doesn't have a fixed limit like Bitcoin does, some see this as an advantage. A common criticism of Bitcoin is what happens when all the coins run out; what if not enough people pay transaction fees and miners are not incentivised enough to continue securing the network. In Monero there's a small (0.3) block reward that continues to be issued. Monero does have anonymity and soon full anonymity with confidential transactions bringing anonymity to not only the addresses but the amounts too.

    What are your experiences with handling and holding cryptocurrency?

    Mined Bitcoin in 2011, invested in 2012, travelled the world in 2013 - 2014, got hacked in 2014, now using cold storage.

    And does Bitcoin own the market or is it still flexible enough for an technology upgrade?

    Bitcoin currently owns the market but I don't think the governance is flexible enough to upgrade to the anonymised technology that Monero uses - see block size debate.

  34. The Benefits And Dangers Of Breaking Paradigms by ytene · · Score: 1

    One of the things that interests me about crypto-currencies would be the potential they have for acting as a foreign-exchange vehicle. Say you want to go on vacation overseas. You buy some Bitcoin in your local currency, fly to your destination, then exchange your Bitcoin for the currency of your destination... It doesn't sound like much, but in theory your actions have just bypassed one of the more lucrative parts of international finance - foreign exchange. When you have credit cards charging ~2% for foreign currency transactions (a joke - multiples of what it costs them) you can see how Bitcoin will very quickly accumulate detractors - ***because the established players have so much to lose from a successful cryptocurrency***. It is interesting to see the different strategies being taken at the moment - every major bank in the world is exploring the use of blockchain currency, whilst (for example) the European Union is discussing outlawing use (usual four horsemen story). Answering the OP's question is going to depend on the use being contemplated. As an investment? Too late. As a practical, utilitarian mechanism to make life easier and cheaper? Probably too soon.

    1. Re:The Benefits And Dangers Of Breaking Paradigms by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Yes a lot of people thought of that pre-2000 and a lot of effort went into doing something like you describe. The banks actively opposed it and no workable end-run around the banks has been found yet.

  35. Gulden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Check Gulden out for a currency that is still small enough to get into but is showing some real potential.

  36. ATTENTION: Editor shortend my question - here's th by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    German officials recently suggested to make all transactions larger than 5000 Euros illegal in cash. It's only a proposal, but definitely some back-room grey-suits machiavellian attempt to introduce the concept of ultimate transaction tracking in the long term. We all know how this goes. With all this and the ever-looming cyberpunk future in close proximity, I'm starting to wonder if it isn't time to get myself familiar with crypto currency as a means of trade.
    Bitcoin is all the hype, but the blockchain has flaws, in that it isn't as anonymous as one would hope for â" you can track past transactions. Rumors of Bitcoin showing cracks are popping up and also there are quite a few alternatives out there. So I have some questions: Is getting into dealing with crypto currency worthwhile already? Is bitcoin a way to go or will it falter under wide use / become easyly trackable once NSA and the likes adopt their systems to doing exactly that?
    What digital currency has the technical and mind-share potential to superceed bitcoin? Are there feasible cryptocurrencies that have the upsides of bitcoin (such as a mathematical limit to their amount) but are fully anonymous in transactions? What do the economists and digi-currency nerds here have to contribute on that? What are your experiences with handling and holding cryptocurrency? And does bitcoin own the market or is it still flexible enough for an technology upgrade? May the discussion begin ...

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  37. Timothy still pushing bitcoin? by dbIII · · Score: 1

    No, it is not time to start using a cryptocurrency.

    The time is after some trust can be put in those backing the currency - not necessarily backed by gold like in "cryptonomicon" but something of value to provide an assurance that it is not a bubble.

    1. Re:Timothy still pushing bitcoin? by DanielRavenNest · · Score: 1

      Bitcoins (the accounting token) is backed by the Bitcoin Network of nodes, software, mining hardware, and all the other stuff that makes it useful. Without the network, bitcoins are just entries in an un-editable database.

      This is similar to UPS shipping labels, which by themselves are just sticky paper with some stuff printed on them, of no inherent value. But they are backed by a network of shipping terminals, trucks, and other stuff that makes the labels useful for moving packages, so people are willing to trade money for the labels.

      Instead of packages, the Bitcoin Network moves monetary value from place to place, and it does this very well. In one test, it moved some bitcoins halfway around the world, six times, in an hour, for a few cents in fees. The usefulness is why people will trade other money for some units of the accounting token.

  38. Follow the money by dbIII · · Score: 1

    Bitcoin is possible to get and use anonymously

    Doesn't the blockchain list the previous transactions? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that make it the least anonymous currency on the planet?

    1. Re:Follow the money by DanielRavenNest · · Score: 1

      Transactions only contain the sending and destination addresses, and the amount of bitcoin being transferred. They don't contain any personal information. As long as you don't leak your identity by activity *around* a transaction, they can be anonymous. For example, Coinbase is a company that sells bitcoins to individuals, and you can link your checking or credit card to fund the purchase. So Coinbase knows which coins you bought. But if you buy them in a private transaction from an individual for cash, less info can be revealed.

    2. Re:Follow the money by dbIII · · Score: 1

      So you are fine so long as your ISP doesn't know who you are. I suppose that is anonymous for a certain value of anonymous but I think my point stands and not all bitcoin users understand that the tracking information is there and it is the least anonymous currency on the planet.

    3. Re:Follow the money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It logs anonymous transactions... Unless you know who owns the wallet IDs, you won't be able to tell who sent what to whom.

      It's like if credit card transactions only logged your card number. Except that there's no bank to ask "who does this card belong to?", and it's trivially easy to get a new card number (or hundreds of card numbers), instantly at no cost.

  39. Depends on what you want to achieve by Cybertoy · · Score: 1
    There's numerous ways to answer your question. Let me take a stab at some of them:

    - You want to get into bitcoin because you want to "invest" in it: Bitcoin is very volatile. Study the charts and make your investment decision just like you would when buying stock. It's extremely high risk. The way things are going there's a good chance you loose everything if you are not willing to get out with a loss. The contrary might be true as well though. Since there's no crystal ball this is a hard prediction to make. Just see all the other comments.

    - You want to hoard money in bitcoin instead of a bank account: Don't do it. See above.

    - You want to use bitcoin for payments: For this purpose bitcoin is fantastic. You can send bitcoin around the world in milliseconds. So buy some bitcoin worth the amount you want to pay and send it off to wherever you want to make the payment to. Remember it's not 100% anonymous though as the payment can be tracked - as mentioned in some of the other comments as well. There's a chance of governments trying to fight bitcon but we will see how successful that is. I myself run a small webpage selling digital services that accepts bitcoin (as well as paypal) and I have more than 50% of my customers paying with bitcoin. Comparing bitcoin to other crypto currencies: bitcoin has the most acceptance. I doubt that any other crypto currency will ever achieve that level of acceptance. Once exception might be if a central bank would decide to issue their own crypto currency and tie it to their FIAT currency (e.g. USD, EUR, ...) in which case I think it would take off like a rocket. Chances of that actually happening though are very slim.

    - You want to get into the blockchain technology: This is independent of bitcoin. Bitcoin is just one use-case for blockchain technology. The blockchain technology has high potential and I would absolutely recommend you get into the technology and become a blockchain expert. If you know the ins and outs of the technology there's probably numerous jobs for you out there.

  40. Bitcoin *WAS* the way to go by koan · · Score: 1

    Unless you live by a hydroelectric dam and have spare capacity on a super number cruncher it's a waste of time.

    I imagine any "crypto" currency that's useful will become difficult to get/use based on my ever escalating Bitcoin experience.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  41. BitShares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Check out Openledger:

    https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/

    Everytime a trade is made on that exchange, BTS is spent on the blockchain.

  42. Uh no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you wanted to be part of the cryptocurrency farming, you should have spent a fortune on computers and video cards back in 2009 when everyone and their dog wanted to start one. That boat as long since sailed.

    If you get into cryptocurrency farming now, it will just be a waste of energy (indeed many farmers were raided when the electric utility suggested the power use was due to an illegal grow-op) , and owing cryptocurrency is tantamount to gambling.

  43. Dogecoin has built-in inflation by Crowd+Computing · · Score: 1

    If someone can come up with a cryptocurrency which is independent of central control, yet its supply increases at roughly the same rate the economy expands, that is the boat you want to get on. It just won't be as lucrative for early adopters as bitcoin because it won't be a ponzi scheme.

    There's actually one rather popular cryptocurrency with built-in inflation. But I'm not sure how seriously you'll consider a business that deals in "doggie" money.

  44. Re:Aw look by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

    It's because they didn't know how to spell "dystopian".

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  45. You don't need cryptocurrency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bitcoin and other formats are the currency of choice of drug addicts. If you're a pothead, go for it. But if you're a normal person who isn't struggling with a drug addiction then bitcoin makes little sense.

    Ask yourself why you need a currency that is largely used by and redeemable only for use on the black market. Chances are if you're a regular law-abiding citizen you aren't interested in that.

    1. Re:You don't need cryptocurrency by hyc · · Score: 1

      Nonsense. They're just ahead of the curve, the same way the porn industry is always ahead of the curve in video technology. (Multiple camera angle DVDs? Yeah, first used in porno...)

      it will all become mainstream down the road. You may think it's only of interest to an undesirable fringe of society, but reality is they're the early adopters because they are social pioneers.

      --
      -- *My* journal is more interesting than *yours*...
  46. Re:ATTENTION: Editor shortend my question - here's by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

    German officials recently suggested to make all transactions larger than 5000 Euros illegal in cash.

    Kind of hard to stop it from happening ...

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  47. Re:ATTENTION: Editor shortend my question - here's by Lennie · · Score: 1

    That would have been a more clear question.

    --
    New things are always on the horizon
  48. My definition of financial bubble by TarPitt · · Score: 1

    I used to define a financial bubble as when the guy in the cubicle next to you brags about how much he made in his investments. When that started to happen, I knew the market was ready for a correction.

    Now my definition is "When Slashdot starts offering investment advice"

    To answer the OP, "Sell every crypto currency you have right now"

    --
    If your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd murder you in your sleep
  49. Flawed argument and Environment by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 1

    This slowdown in economic activity causes a recession...until once again their price goes up

    If you were talking about a normal 'fiat' currency then yes I would agree. However if you have an absolutely fixed supply of currency then deflation is not an abnormal condition but the steady state. In such a condition I'm not sure that your argument holds because there is no point in holding off for when prices start to rise because they will not, at least not be any significant amount.

    Even if you are right and steady-state deflation encourages people to hold off on purchases until they really need something perhaps this is not a bad thing. Reducing consumption is a good thing to do given the limited resources of the planet. As for the stability of the economy look at the UK recessions. The US is a relatively new country which had a rapidly developing and changing economy over the period you give also the measure used changes with different periods in the article you linked. If you look at the UK list then, except for the great depression, there is no real difference in the depth of the recessions but there may be some indication that there were fewer, but longer, recessions before 1931 when the UK came off the gold standard. So I don't see the evidence to support your assertions.

  50. You're about to be robbed of your dignity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject Mr. webmaster: This exposes your CRUDE motives asshole http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    APK

    P.S.=> "It's going to be a PLEASURE watching you DIE, Mr. Anderson..."

    ... apk

  51. Re:ATTENTION: Editor shortend my question - here's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Monero is the most anonymous cryptocurrency currently; it has been in use since April 2014. Go to http://getmonero.org/ and http://reddit.com/r/Monero to read more.

  52. To be honest... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To be honest, you'd be better off if you just glued your forehead to your crotch.

  53. Only bitcoin! by JamesHolliberg · · Score: 1

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