Jeep/Chrysler's New Gearshift Appears To Be Causing Accidents (roadandtrack.com)

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Jeep/Chrysler's New Gearshift Appears To Be Causing Accidents (roadandtrack.com)

Posted by timothy on Tuesday February 9, 2016 @10:33AM from the what's-it-look-like? dept.

bartle writes: The new gearshift design for the Jeep Grand Cherokee appears to be causing rollaway accidents: 121 crashes and 30 injuries so far. The gear shifter is designed to look and feel similar to a traditional automatic gear shift lever but it is meant to cycle through the gears rather than move directly to a certain gear. A driver who is used to placing their vehicle in park by pressing the shifter all the way forward may instead be setting it to neutral before exiting the vehicle. The NHTSA is investigating.

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So what should we do? by thechemic · 2016-02-09 10:34 · Score: 2, Insightful

Should we hold back progress in to protect people from injury, should we penalize the RTFM challenged individuals, or something else?

--
Let's make like a bird... and get the flock outta here.
1. Re:So what should we do? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-09 10:37 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I dunno. Is this gearshifter 'progress' or is it just a gimmick gone wrong?
2. Re:So what should we do? by thechemic · 2016-02-09 10:42 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Well... instead of taking action one time with one lever, they "simplified" it, and now you have to actuate the same mechanism several times in order to achieve the same result. This would definitely be considered "progress" in the eyes of Apple.
  
  --
  Let's make like a bird... and get the flock outta here.
3. Re:So what should we do? by bev_tech_rob · 2016-02-09 10:44 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Why is re-inventing the wheel called progress? What is wrong with the old system? Like the article says, most folks have committed that shifter operation to muscle memory years ago. Why change the way the shift works 'because it is new' ?
  Like working a helpdesk in IT, users are creatures of habit and when you start moving their cheese, this kind of stuff happens.
  
  --
  You're messin' with my Zen Thing, man.....
4. Re:So what should we do? by penguinoid · 2016-02-09 10:54 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Just wait til you hear my idea -- just do the shifting from a touchscreen! I'll link you the Kickstarter once I've filed the patent.
  
  --
  Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
5. Re:So what should we do? by sims+2 · 2016-02-09 10:57 · Score: 2
  
  Well there's a reason why we don't use the P-N-D-L-R layout anymore. Mainly it was dangerous and got people killed.
  Also you do realise modern vehicles imitate the clicking noise the bimetal blinker switches made just because people expect it.
  I've got a chevrolet that has a problem with multitasking it can't play the seatbelt warning at the same time as the turn signal. so I get this funny click click click click ding ding click click click click....Like no one's going to notice the turn signal magically went silent.
  
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6. Re:So what should we do? by Kozar_The_Malignant · 2016-02-09 10:57 · Score: 2
  
  The old MOPAR push button tranny actuator is prior art.
  
  --
  Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
7. Re:So what should we do? by hawguy · 2016-02-09 10:58 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  And if you're never allowed to move their cheese, you could never effect "progress" could you. Sometimes you have to move their cheese, and sometimes you have to let "this kind of stuff" happen. Sometimes you even have to do it with very small incremental changes. Since you used the helpdesk reference, perhaps just like the small incremental changes in every iterations of Windows.
  You can move the cheese, but don't replace it with a box of poison that looks just like the cheese.
  If they want to change the UI for a shifter, they should make it completely different, not make something that looks, and superficially feels the same while in actuality it's quite different. What they did is akin to wanting to have a joy-stick instead of a steering wheel, but instead of just putting in an obvious joystick, they made it look just like a steering wheel.
8. Re:So what should we do? by Grishnakh · 2016-02-09 11:04 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  He was definitely implying that this new design was progressive. It was not, it's an utterly stupid gimmick, as others have said here. It looks too much like a traditional AT shift lever, but functions completely different, and worse, for no good reason. There's a good reason that most cars these days have standardized on a particular control layout: it works well, people are used to it, and standardization is valuable when people change vehicles. People do rent cars from time to time, or drive other peoples' cars, and making confusing differences just to be "cool" and "edgy" is just going to cause problems like this. This doesn't mean you should avoid change that's actually beneficial, but this shift lever is not an example of this, it's an example of a really stupid change that makes things worse.
  Also, if you are going to make a change to commonly-accepted controls, this is a prime example of why you shouldn't try to make it resemble an existing method too much. Make it noticeably different, and people will pay attention, rather than assuming it works the same as what they're used to.
9. Re:So what should we do? by Thelasko · 2016-02-09 11:08 · Score: 2
  
  1) Nobody RTFM when they buy a new car
  2) Nobody RTFM when the rent a car
  The industry had standard, and Chrysler deviated from the standard. The benefit to deviating from the standard is nonexistent. The drawback is a safety concern.
  
  It reminds me of push button start. Once you get over the "Gee Whiz" factor, it's a safety concern.
  
  --
  One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
10. Re: So what should we do? by BarbaraHudson · 2016-02-09 11:14 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Yes, motorcycles use sequential shift standard transmissions - but they don''t disguise it to look like an ordinary gear shift. For motorcycles, one foot works the shift lever, the other the rear brakes. No mistaking that. Also, since it uses a clutch, there is no "park" - just stick it in gear.
  
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  "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
11. Re:So what should we do? by djbckr · 2016-02-09 11:14 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I'll chime in with a great example of moved cheese: The Prius. The "shifter" is nothing like any other, and yet it's intuitive. It had a separate button for park (as I recall - I got rid of it). It was very straightforward to use, yet completely different than a standard PRNDL shifter.
12. Re:So what should we do? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-09 11:19 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  My girlfriend has a Charger that has one of these shifters. I've been driving for 20 years, and the times I've driven her car, I have mistakenly put it in the wrong gear several times.
  The problem isn't that the shifter operates differently, it's that it feels like a traditional shifter and operates completely differently. Change the mechanism so that it's a push button, dial, switches, whatever. Just not the way automatic transmissions have traditionally been if it's going to act differently.
  Having said that, I absolutely hate that part of her car, although I like most of the other features of the car.
13. Re:So what should we do? by sexconker · 2016-02-09 11:26 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Corvette owner dying in the car because he didn't know about the mechanical release levers on the floor, the targa latches on the roof or the hatch release in the rear...
  To be fair the most recent case I heard about involved an elderly man and his dog. The man was found with the owner's manual in his lap, trying to find out how to open the door without a functioning electrical system. The mention of the latch location is buried somewhere on page 67 or some shit. It should be in the first few pages.
14. Re:So what should we do? by bill_mcgonigle · 2016-02-09 11:34 · Score: 2
  
  There has to be something to distinguish the Chrysler transmission from the pack, other than that they all die at 90,000 miles.
  
  --
  My God, it's Full of Source!
  OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
15. Re:So what should we do? by Dan+East · 2016-02-09 11:41 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  This reminds me of the worst interface design I've seen in a long time. This Holmes heater: http://www.amazon.com/Holmes-H...
  Brilliant idea. One single button. You have to push it repeatedly to go through every temperature setting with low fan, then press it repeatedly to go through all the temperatures again in high fan speed. Absolutely the stupidest design I've ever seen. I would like to see them design a computer keyboard. Those brilliant minds would give us a keyboard with one button you press repeatedly a hundred times to enter a single character.
  
  --
  Better known as 318230.
16. Re:So what should we do? by HornWumpus · 2016-02-09 11:42 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Almost as good an idea as the Kegel shifter.
  
  --
  John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
17. Re:So what should we do? by thechemic · 2016-02-09 12:03 · Score: 2
  
  I am sorry you're obese, but the solution is indeed eat less.
  
  --
  Let's make like a bird... and get the flock outta here.
18. Re:So what should we do? by KGIII · 2016-02-09 12:12 · Score: 2
  
  It is your job to know full, safe, operation methods prior to operating the vehicle. Yes, it means needing to learn a few things and cars have man differences between them. I have more than one car that you probably couldn't even figure out how to start, never mind get into motion. Learn to operate the vehicle prior to operating the vehicle.
  
  --
  "So long and thanks for all the fish."
19. Re:So what should we do? by Just+Some+Guy · 2016-02-09 12:30 · Score: 2
  
  Also, the (possibly trained) driver isn't going to be the only person to ever sit behind the wheel. Valets, mechanics, and friends will all take turns driving over the years. Is Joe Driver going to remember that the pattern he's learned and committed to muscle memory over months of driving is unexpected, and to warn everyone he gives the keys to? This is bad UI, pure and simple.
  
  --
  Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
20. Re:So what should we do? by drinkypoo · 2016-02-09 12:32 · Score: 2
  
  The old MOPAR push button tranny actuator is prior art.
  and also a much better plan, I wonder why they didn't just use push buttons. it woulda been chrysler retro, which would have fit the trend in Jeep styling.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
21. Re:So what should we do? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · 2016-02-09 12:33 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  "Siri, please shift into park, please." "And open the pod bay doors, while you're at it."
  
  --
  Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
22. Re:So what should we do? by Asgard · 2016-02-09 12:42 · Score: 2
  
  However the rental scenario is apt -- I'm unlikely to read through a car manual in the lot to check that there are no gotchas with the gas pedal / brake if they resemble what I'm already familiar with. A critical control that behaves significantly differently then all others of the same appearance is bad user design, also known as the principle of least surprise.
  Sort of like replacing the function of the disk 'save' icon with a disk 'wipe' function -- yeah someone could read the entire manual but its sneaky to do that.
  If it is going to behave significantly differently it should look/feel significantly differently.
23. Re:So what should we do? by citizenr · 2016-02-09 12:55 · Score: 2
  
  Sounds exactly like Hakko soldering gear, you pay >$500 for soldering station and end up with 1985 alarm clock/wristwatch type of interface for setting up temperature.
  
  --
  Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
24. Re:So what should we do? by thechemic · 2016-02-09 13:21 · Score: 2
  
  Eat better? So solving America's obesity problem requires earing with a higher level of skill? No, the solution is to EAT LESS: less high calorie foods, less junk food, less junk drinks, less less less. The Impy the Impiuos Imp can find 472 different "better" ways to shove Mc Donalds into his face, but none of them will help him solve his obesity problems.
  
  --
  Let's make like a bird... and get the flock outta here.
25. Re: So what should we do? by pixelpusher220 · 2016-02-09 13:22 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  We're not talking about the rare concept of trying to unlock an auto transmission when the alternator dies so you can push the thing.
  
  This is OPENING THE FUCKING DOOR.
  
  --
  People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
26. Re:So what should we do? by c-A-d · 2016-02-09 13:25 · Score: 2
  
  I think the Edsel predates that with the push buttons to select gears on the steering wheel.
  
  --
  some karma... and kinda lukewarm about it.
27. Re:So what should we do? by thechemic · 2016-02-09 13:25 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  If you're the type of person that buys a 3500 pound object that can go 100+ MPH and fail to read the manual which results in the injury of another individual, you're an idiot.
  
  --
  Let's make like a bird... and get the flock outta here.
28. Re:So what should we do? by eth1 · 2016-02-09 14:18 · Score: 2
  
  Corvette owner dying in the car because he didn't know about the mechanical release levers on the floor, the targa latches on the roof or the hatch release in the rear...
  To be fair the most recent case I heard about involved an elderly man and his dog. The man was found with the owner's manual in his lap, trying to find out how to open the door without a functioning electrical system. The mention of the latch location is buried somewhere on page 67 or some shit. It should be in the first few pages.
  That's even worse than my Boxster, where they've locked the battery under a trunk lid that requires battery power to open...
29. Re:So what should we do? by Immerman · 2016-02-09 14:46 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Ugh, yeah, I hate those sorts of design decisions. I challenge the assertion that it's a brilliant idea though, except perhaps in a "sounds good in advertisements" way - there's a reason buttons tend to show up in groups, because individually they are an *extremely* limited interface.
  You can't efficiently choose between more than two states with a single button - cycling is pretty much your only option without a non-trivial tap-code. And that means, on average, cycling through half of the states to get where you want to be. Multiple buttons can be used to reduce the problem by cycling through orthogonal options, or even offering a discrete button for each state.
  Personally I prefer multistate switches: Twist the knob (or slide the slider) to the position that reflects your desire and be done with it. One single motion chooses between several options, and once you establish muscle-memory you can achieve precise results as soon as your hand finds a single control, even in complete darkness.
  But sadly cost is typically a high design priority, and buttons are usually cheaper to integrate into a device than multistate switches, and the fewer the buttons the cheaper. Which leads to cool-sounding ad copy being used to spin cost-cutting compromises into slick-sounding "features"
  
  --
  --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
30. Re:So what should we do? by Dog-Cow · 2016-02-09 19:59 · Score: 2
  
  You win the smug asshole of the century award. Your prize aught to be a one-way trip off the nearest cliff, but unfortunately the Universe doesn't work that way.
31. Re:So what should we do? by AmiMoJo · 2016-02-09 22:01 · Score: 2
  
  I have both digital and analogue Hakko irons. I think you misunderstand what the interface is designed to do. To be fair, the English manual doesn't explain it all that well.
  Hakko irons are used in production environments. You don't want stray button presses to alter the iron temperature. You want a very definite sequence of inputs to do that. The newer ones have a little plastic key that blocks input when removed, but they retained the old button press sequence because people were already familiar with it.
  It's kinda like the emergency/parking brake in a car. Often you have to do two things at the same time to release it, e.g. hold a stiff button down and move a lever. You don't want it to be too easy to disengage.
  
  --
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  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
32. Re:So what should we do? by MrDoh! · 2016-02-09 22:03 · Score: 2
  
  Reminds me... BMW i3 Wifey hates me tootling around in my Smart Car, and for some reason though the BWM i3 would be better. Went to the showroom, and... so unintentionally hilarious. Sales guy is smooth, he's got the answers to all the obvious questions, the range, the option of the small gas motor for extra range, the 'if all your doing is driving 10 miles there and back, you'll be fine' stuff. And we got to the 'gas cap' thing, the cover over the power socket that you actually plug the power into. It's electrically operated. The showroom car was totally flat, "err, how do you open the power cap thingy if it's battery operated but the battery is flat?" "hmm, that's odd, but let me show you the... " "no, hang on, this is kinda a bit design issue for me, if I can't open the cap..." "yes, yes of course, let me look into that for you while we get you a test drive" and he calls over the other sales guy to handle that, as he then goes crazy at the 'youngsters' "I WAS AWAY TWO WEEKS, YOU HAD ONE JOB, ONE JOB! MAKE SURE THE ELECTRIC CAR WAS PLUGGED IN! If any of you idiots lose me this sale, you're all fired" lots of arm waving, wildly gesturing, probably thought we couldn't hear him outside through the glass, but the whole showroom was watching, and I was offering helpful commentary. We went for a test drive, back in 15-20 minutes and 5 young sales associates and the first guy were clambering all over the car, pushing/prodding everything you could thing of, all the optional extras were on the floor as they continued to look. The test drive sales guy realises what's happening and takes us to look at the different models, and one last look over the shoulder see's the 5 people still all over the car, one of them underneath the car, as the head sales guy is flipping furiously through the think manual. 10 minutes later, we're back, the port is open and the power cable is plugged in, no lights on the car yet, they must have /really/ let it drain out "oh, all sorted?" "oh yes, no problem at all really, there's just a tiny hidden button behind the rear seat that you need to press, no problem at all really..." Sure everyone in that showroom knows where the manual cover pop open button is now though.
  
  --
  Waiting for an amusing sig.
33. Re: So what should we do? by Hognoxious · 2016-02-09 22:39 · Score: 2
  
  adnausium
  
  Can't find it. Is it one of the transition elements?
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
34. Re: So what should we do? by Coren22 · 2016-02-10 01:50 · Score: 2
  
  Reading the article (I know..), this is a very odd shifter lever. It isn't a manual gear shift, it is P R N D/S (the newfangled automatic manual selection transmission), but it always returns to center, it doesn't stay at the park position. Also, if they car isn't in park, it doesn't shut off the engine, which is an odd design choice as well. I am not entirely sure how you actually put it in park, it sounds like you hold the button and push it all the way forward, but that seems like it would just work and not be weird enough to put people off. I'm really not sure what is going on here.
  
  --
  APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
35. Re:So what should we do? by UnderCoverPenguin · 2016-02-10 06:58 · Score: 2
  
  I don't like the "time sensitive" touch switches either. My GF and I recently installed a different kind. If you tap it, it adjusts the light level according to where you tapped the switch pad - bottom fades to off, top to 100% on, elsewhere, proportionately. If you slide your finger up, the level increases proportionately to how far you slide your finger. Similar for sliding your finger down. Makes sense and is designed to resist accidental change by ignoring touches of more that 2 fingertips of area and slides not close to vertical.
  
  --
  Don't try to out wierd me, three-eyes. I get stranger things than you, free with my breakfast cereal. --Zaphod Beeblebr
Emergency Brake? by RoknrolZombie · 2016-02-09 10:34 · Score: 2

Isn't that why they have an emergency brake?
1. Re:Emergency Brake? by Woldscum · 2016-02-09 10:55 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Also because standard transmissions unfortunately are going the way of the dodo. The CVs and new 5,6,7 and 8 speed auto transmissions get better MPG than the standards. Wild ass guess that 75% of the drivers in the US cannot drive a standard transmission and never use the emergency brake. And I bet that number is in the 95% range in the SUV owner (Soccer moms) group.
2. Re:Emergency Brake? by Kozar_The_Malignant · 2016-02-09 11:00 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  The best anti-theft device you can have in your car is a manual transmission.
  
  --
  Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
3. Re:Emergency Brake? by rmdingler · 2016-02-09 12:46 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  One additional clear advantage of the standard transmission is the degree with which you have to be actually engaged with the process of driving.
  To be fair, sometimes driving a familiar automatic gets downright, er, automatic... and you actually forget you're driving some number of tons of metal down the boulevard.
  
  --
  Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
  Ernest Hemingway
Key Lock by bartosek · 2016-02-09 10:41 · Score: 2

My Kia won't let me take the key out of the ignition unless the shifter is in park. You're saying my econobox has more safety features than a luxury Jeep?
1. Re: Key Lock by adolf · 2016-02-09 10:48 · Score: 2
  
  Have you tried removing the key in neutral?
  
  --
  Kid-proof tablet..
Re:User error by HornWumpus · 2016-02-09 10:50 · Score: 2

If you're hitting second gear in 'stop and go' you are doing it wrong.
My guess, you've never driven a stick in your life, but know you don't like them.

--
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Re:User error by bobbied · 2016-02-09 11:22 · Score: 2

Correct for city driving. But this is a more recent development and it's not that much more. If you can keep the engine in the most economic sweet spot longer, you will get better gas mileage. It's hard to do that as effectively with a finite number of gears, even with flawless picking of the shift points by the driver..
However, if you are doing highway driving, the manual wins, every time.

--
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Re:User error by David_Hart · 2016-02-09 12:07 · Score: 4, Informative

Correct for city driving. But this is a more recent development and it's not that much more. If you can keep the engine in the most economic sweet spot longer, you will get better gas mileage. It's hard to do that as effectively with a finite number of gears, even with flawless picking of the shift points by the driver..
However, if you are doing highway driving, the manual wins, every time.
Not true...
This used to be true because Automatics had torque converters with a slip system and Manuals didn't. Manuals lock into a gear and have no slip. Automatics have a slip mechanism that allows the car to stop at a light and not stall. This slip system also meant that there was some slip at higher speeds resulting in poorer fuel mileage in older Automatics.
However, modern Automatics have the ability to automatically "lock" the torque converter into a gear at higher speeds. This negates the advantage that manuals had at highway speeds.
http://www.cartalk.com/blogs/t...
In fact, a lot of the old arguments for selecting a Manual have dropped by the wayside as Automatic transmission technology has improved. There are really only two remaining arguments for get a manual, the first is that cars with manual transmissions cost a bit less and the second is that, for many, they are fun to drive... That last one will never go away...
Ah, here we go. by Dereck1701 · 2016-02-09 12:09 · Score: 2

"In Fiat Chrysler vehicles equipped with this shifter design, opening the driver's door when the car is not in Park triggers a chime and an instrument cluster alert, and the engine cannot be turned off with the car in gear"
I'm guessing "chime and alert" is a roundabout way of saying the car screams at you "hey moron, you left the car in gear!" the dash lights up like a Christmas tree.
Re:User error by bobbied · 2016-02-09 12:26 · Score: 2

Locking Torque converters have been the rule for a LONG time, like since the 70's... With all due respect for the guys from Car Talk, this *helps* with the efficiency, but there still is some energy losses due to the necessity of running the automatic part of the transmission. You have to keep the shift clutches engaged, that takes hydraulic pressure which implies a pump is running someplace. You also must circulate the transmission fluid to keep the various things lubricated and cool, which takes some power too. Power consumption in the transmission means less power for driving getting to the wheels.
I'm not saying the differential between the automatic and the manual is all that much these days, it's not, but if you are on the highway the manual is going to be better. Now if you want to argue that it's unlikely that your average skilled driver would be able to achieve better gas mileage in a mixed environment of city and highway driving on their manual, that for 99.9% of drivers would do better on an automatic, I can only agree with you. However, just straight out driving down the road at highway speed, not shifting, that manual is going to be hard to beat, all things being equal.

--
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Keyless ignition by jbwolfe · 2016-02-09 13:14 · Score: 3, Insightful

Anyone recall the Toyota driver whose accelerator got stuck (for whatever reason) and he reported he could not turn the engine off because it had a keyless ignition. Family of three lost their lives. Car makers need to avoid creating a paradigm that offers no benefit.

--
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
I own one of these. . . by Zobeid · 2016-02-09 13:22 · Score: 2

I own one of these vehicles, and I can attest that the shifter design is awkward and confusing. The shifter paddles are another gripe, since they're effectively useless on this type of vehicle, but it's easy to hit one without realizing it when making a turn, then you have to figure out what's wrong, and then figure out how to get it out of manual mode. And the design fails are not limited to the shifter. All the controls in this vehicle are a user interface disaster. After owning mine for more than a year, I still find it awkward, and the touch screen interface for the infotainment and climate control still befuddles me at some times and infuriates me at others. And just to add an extra special touch of irritation, the stereo automatically comes on playing satellite radio whenever the vehicle is started, and there's no way to configure it not to. I've just learned to hit the mute button every time I start the car.
The utter failure of the Jeep's user interface was really pounded home to me when I was loaned a Tesla Model S for a week and a half. The huge touch panel looked alien at first glance, but I mastered most of its functions just by poking at it for about five minutes, and everything was golden after that.
This is NOT new by Archfeld · 2016-02-09 15:36 · Score: 2

For any of you 'gearheads' this is just a reincarnation of the old school ratchet shifter. I had a 'cuda when I was in HS, a loooong time ago, that had this type and a pistol grip shifting knob. It was cool then, not really sure what I think about it now...

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errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?