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Jeep/Chrysler's New Gearshift Appears To Be Causing Accidents (roadandtrack.com)
bartle writes: The new gearshift design for the Jeep Grand Cherokee appears to be causing rollaway accidents: 121 crashes and 30 injuries so far. The gear shifter is designed to look and feel similar to a traditional automatic gear shift lever but it is meant to cycle through the gears rather than move directly to a certain gear. A driver who is used to placing their vehicle in park by pressing the shifter all the way forward may instead be setting it to neutral before exiting the vehicle. The NHTSA is investigating.
Should we hold back progress in to protect people from injury, should we penalize the RTFM challenged individuals, or something else?
Let's make like a bird... and get the flock outta here.
Isn't that why they have an emergency brake?
It's difficult to find vehicles that even have a manual anymore. I love driving them! 'Merica... fuck yeah!
Let's make like a bird... and get the flock outta here.
These POS cars are typically rental cars. I frequently work with people who get them as such, and on every trip there is always an "oops" tryigng to change gears.
I'm all for progress and change but sometimes you need to think about what happens when you change something that hasn't really changed in a generation.
My Kia won't let me take the key out of the ignition unless the shifter is in park. You're saying my econobox has more safety features than a luxury Jeep?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
I guess it's time to shift gears and try something else.
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
If you're hitting second gear in 'stop and go' you are doing it wrong.
My guess, you've never driven a stick in your life, but know you don't like them.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
In this day and age of auto-parking and self-driving car it seems trivial to have software look at inputs like vehicle speed of zero, the shifter being moved (even if it doesn't make it into Park), the engine off, the door being opened, the human no longer in the seat, etc., and just electromechanically engage the parking pawl. If someone needs neutral, provide an override.
returning to its center position once you've selected your gear.
Who thought THAT was a good idea? So they thought it would be a good idea to have a shifter be in the same position REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT IS IN NEUTRAL, DRIVE, REVERSE, OR PARK? Man, I'm amazed that got beyond the first round of design review.
It's difficult to find vehicles that even have a manual anymore. I love driving them! 'Merica... fuck yeah!
What's worse, those goddamn 'murricans went over to Germany and took over ZF Friedrichshafen AG where they make t. They also made them install these shifters on some Audi cars.
http://www.zf.com/corporate/en... Gehrdehrm 'murricans!
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Great list! Now try to expand it to include a large sedan, full-size pickup truck or minivan.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
I would imagine a little bit of poetic licence behind their "few feet" remark. Personally, unless traffic is already stopping before I start accelerating it's time to upshift.
Christ america, what is wrong with manual?
1995 is calling, and wants you back.
These days, manuals get crappy fuel economy; autos beat them every time. Autos also beat them in performance: they can shift much faster than you can.
Face it, technology has improved and rendered manual transmissions obsolete.
And they're getting better still: pretty soon, we can expect CVTs to mostly replace traditional automatics. That is, until electric cars render transmissions completely obsolete.
Correct for city driving. But this is a more recent development and it's not that much more. If you can keep the engine in the most economic sweet spot longer, you will get better gas mileage. It's hard to do that as effectively with a finite number of gears, even with flawless picking of the shift points by the driver..
However, if you are doing highway driving, the manual wins, every time.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
What? That doesn't even make sense.
In stop and go, you give it power in first for a second, than coast as far as traffic will let you.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Bullshit. The automatic can't read your mind, hence it's always trying to catch up with what you want. They are good for straight lines.
Automatics have caught up on fuel economy. But at the cost of being terrible drive by wire cars in both cases. I rented a Sentra that overrode my throttle stomp until it decided the steering wheel was straight enough, I would never buy a POS that did that.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
It all depends on the traffic. I often used to get stuck in stop and go that was a few car lengths at a time. I would be coasting at abysmally slow speeds, unless I step up to 2nd or really push the RPM.
The Cherokee was bad enough.
They (Chrysler, GM, Ford, Rover, Toyota) 'as a group' have succeeded in making trucks drive like cars. Only downside, ruined them as trucks/offroad.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Correct for city driving. But this is a more recent development and it's not that much more. If you can keep the engine in the most economic sweet spot longer, you will get better gas mileage. It's hard to do that as effectively with a finite number of gears, even with flawless picking of the shift points by the driver..
However, if you are doing highway driving, the manual wins, every time.
Not true...
This used to be true because Automatics had torque converters with a slip system and Manuals didn't. Manuals lock into a gear and have no slip. Automatics have a slip mechanism that allows the car to stop at a light and not stall. This slip system also meant that there was some slip at higher speeds resulting in poorer fuel mileage in older Automatics.
However, modern Automatics have the ability to automatically "lock" the torque converter into a gear at higher speeds. This negates the advantage that manuals had at highway speeds.
http://www.cartalk.com/blogs/t...
In fact, a lot of the old arguments for selecting a Manual have dropped by the wayside as Automatic transmission technology has improved. There are really only two remaining arguments for get a manual, the first is that cars with manual transmissions cost a bit less and the second is that, for many, they are fun to drive... That last one will never go away...
"In Fiat Chrysler vehicles equipped with this shifter design, opening the driver's door when the car is not in Park triggers a chime and an instrument cluster alert, and the engine cannot be turned off with the car in gear"
I'm guessing "chime and alert" is a roundabout way of saying the car screams at you "hey moron, you left the car in gear!" the dash lights up like a Christmas tree.
: they can shift much faster than you can.
Some do, some don't. The big problem with autos is when you need to shift by more than one gear: my transmission will spend about 2 seconds dropping through the gears before it gives me power.
pretty soon, we can expect CVTs to mostly replace traditional automatics.
Nope - they have fundamental problems with reliability. A transmission that needs a belt is fundamentally a bad plan. Electric cars will come first.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
One of the first things President Obama did after arriving in the White House was to steal Chrysler (the company that made Jeeps) from its shareholders, many of whom were middle class retirees, and essentially GIVE the company to Fiat. The price Fiat paid was essentially a token, and the President's team insisted the buyer be a foreign company. They company's "Jeep" brand had already been degraded during the Chrysler/Daimler years when a Euro-designed vehicle was re-branded as a "Jeep" (the The Jeep Liberty) and presented to the public as a newer better Cherokee (which it is NOT). The Liberty was bad enough, but the stuff rolling out now under the name "Jeep Cherokee" are just cars pretending to be SUVs and have little in common with what everybody used to think of as a "Jeep". As for a bad user-interface? It's a FIAT with the name "Jeep" stamped on it!
There wasn't anything special about those older Jeeps that you mention. Yeah, they looked more rugged, but that was about it. What has always differentiated Jeeps from other trucks is the 4WD system. All of the models that you mentioned have some form of the Jeep 4WD that are probably just as or more capable than the older systems. On top of that, Jeep continues to offer their higher end 4WD system on various trim levels (i.e. the Trailhawk). For example, I've seen many examples on youtube of people taking a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited (my car) off-roading and it holding it's own.
My thought is that you've never tested the capabilities of the modern Jeep and that it's the looks that you don't like...
Locking Torque converters have been the rule for a LONG time, like since the 70's... With all due respect for the guys from Car Talk, this *helps* with the efficiency, but there still is some energy losses due to the necessity of running the automatic part of the transmission. You have to keep the shift clutches engaged, that takes hydraulic pressure which implies a pump is running someplace. You also must circulate the transmission fluid to keep the various things lubricated and cool, which takes some power too. Power consumption in the transmission means less power for driving getting to the wheels.
I'm not saying the differential between the automatic and the manual is all that much these days, it's not, but if you are on the highway the manual is going to be better. Now if you want to argue that it's unlikely that your average skilled driver would be able to achieve better gas mileage in a mixed environment of city and highway driving on their manual, that for 99.9% of drivers would do better on an automatic, I can only agree with you. However, just straight out driving down the road at highway speed, not shifting, that manual is going to be hard to beat, all things being equal.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Yes ,but... trucks and SUV's have become soft and squishy because that's what buyers wanted. Women wanted to drive big trucks, but didn't want their delicate bottoms rattled on bumpy roads. As a result, you can't get anything to play off-road in unless you spend an additional bucket of cash in the aftermarket. Shame, but that is how the market works.
ZF has been making occasional lemons since at least the nineties. ZF5HP42 anyone?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
However, if you are doing highway driving, the manual wins, every time.
To some extent this ended with the ZF8 and it is well and truly over with the ZF9. They give the ZF9 four overdrives, the lowest one is 0.48:1. The automatic now kicks the manual's ass. It's also over with the new crop of CVTs; they don't manage the same kind of mileage as the ZF 9HP because they can't quite manage the same deep ratio, but they're still better than a normal automatic.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
"These days, manuals get crappy fuel economy; autos beat them every time"
Find me a non-hybrid that beats my 1987 manual transmission Tercel's 40+ MPG.
I have yet to see one at any dealership.
I severely doubt that you got 40+ MPG in an 87 Tercel. The Manual version was rated at 37 highway. Down hill on windy day, maybe... (grin)
But, for arguments sake, take a look at the Hyundai Accent. It gets 38 MPG for the manual and 37 for the automatic for highway driving.
There, found you a non-hybrid automatic that matches your Tercel... it even comes with Bluetooth, welcome to the 21st century... (grin)
Bullshit. The automatic can't read your mind, hence it's always trying to catch up with what you want. They are good for straight lines.
Bullshit. The automatics all support a manual mode now, whether it's implemented in your car or not. A very fast human driver can shift in maybe 250ms, average is maybe 500ms and in most vehicles closer to 1s. A mediocre automatic transmission shifts in 400ms (the good ones from the nineties will manage this) while a very good one will do it in 200ms. But about since the same time they went to five-speed, they also became dynamically controlled. While typically retaining a classic limp mode, such transmissions also dual-engage gears while shifting, making most shifts basically imperceptible. A driver can make a tiptronic shift while under power in a corner without upsetting the balance of the vehicle, something you can't do even by heel-toe shifting.
A good automatic transmission is better than even an expert human with any manual short of a dogbox. Even a SMG is faster than a dogbox. A DCT is an order of magnitude faster than a SMG. There is nothing faster than a DCT... which can be fully automated. The latest ones are even said to be fairly smooth when they do that.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
As a result, you can't get anything to play off-road in unless you spend an additional bucket of cash in the aftermarket. Shame, but that is how the market works.
Luckily there are absolute shitloads of trucks just lying around waiting to be hopped up, and available for little to no money. You can get OBS F-Body trucks literally all day... out here in California they're even close enough to "no rust" as makes no difference. How many do you want? You're going to rip out the powertrain anyway, right?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
OK.. Doesn't matter anyway.. Last time I looked at a car lot for a manual transmission, I barely could get my 6'7" self into *any* of the cars that could be purchased without the automatic. By the time I'm back in the car market there will be nothing left I can afford to drive with a manual transmission and about all I will fit into is a large sized SUV or truck. If only the cheep old VW Bugs had air-conditioning, but who can spare enough horses to run the compressor and fan in that contraption... Way fun to drive and I actually fit in it, just don't live where you need AC or heat, and as close to the desert as I live.....
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
There wasn't anything special about those older Jeeps that you mention. Yeah, they looked more rugged, but that was about it.
There was something special about older Jeeps. They were cheap to modify, and they had more flex. Leaf springs are heavy and have inferior ride, but they offer more suspension travel and they mounted them under the axles... so you could cheaply use a shackle flip kit to do a suspension lift. On the other hand, they typically didn't come with locking diffs. The modern vehicles use EBD to maintain traction while crawling at low speeds, which means they can actually traverse things that the older stock vehicles can't. On the gripping hand, who goes off-road with an old Jeep without getting at least one locker?
The problem now is just finding donors for modification, though. At this point it might actually be cheaper to buy a tube frame. There are a few tube buggy frames under 5k...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Well, I'm also 6'7" and I certainly don't fit into the old beetle. I am still working to transition from my old W126 300SD to a D2 A8. Gets about the same mileage on the freeway, and I don't drive around town much. You might consider looking at Subarus though, I used to have a GC5 Impreza and I fit very well into that. Before that I had a S13 240SX Fastback, which had massive legroom but which was a little short on headroom.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Locking Torque converters have been the rule for a LONG time, like since the 70's... With all due respect for the guys from Car Talk, this *helps* with the efficiency, but there still is some energy losses due to the necessity of running the automatic part of the transmission. You have to keep the shift clutches engaged, that takes hydraulic pressure which implies a pump is running someplace. You also must circulate the transmission fluid to keep the various things lubricated and cool, which takes some power too. Power consumption in the transmission means less power for driving getting to the wheels.
I'm not saying the differential between the automatic and the manual is all that much these days, it's not, but if you are on the highway the manual is going to be better. Now if you want to argue that it's unlikely that your average skilled driver would be able to achieve better gas mileage in a mixed environment of city and highway driving on their manual, that for 99.9% of drivers would do better on an automatic, I can only agree with you. However, just straight out driving down the road at highway speed, not shifting, that manual is going to be hard to beat, all things being equal.
As you said, the difference is minor, approximately 1 MPG if we believe the numbers from the manufacturers. Personally, I consider that a very minor advantage, if not a draw when it comes to comparing the two. However, if you listen to most manual transmission fans, you would think that the difference was 10MPG. Those days are long gone...
Drivers still depress the accelerator to the floor thinking they're stomping on the brakes. When it comes to designing automobiles for the masses, the consequences of every possible mistake should be anticipated. Then budget for the inevitable liability.
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
But they still run in to reliability issues long before manuals and cost a hell of a lot more to maintain and repair.
Oh bullshit, autos don't need any more maintenance than manuals. You change the fluid once in a blue moon and that's it. Repair costs, sure, *if* there's a problem. On any decent car, the auto lasts the life of the car.
Also, electrics will never render transmissions obsolete.
Tesla has proven you wrong.
Anyone recall the Toyota driver whose accelerator got stuck (for whatever reason) and he reported he could not turn the engine off because it had a keyless ignition. Family of three lost their lives. Car makers need to avoid creating a paradigm that offers no benefit.
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
I own one of these vehicles, and I can attest that the shifter design is awkward and confusing. The shifter paddles are another gripe, since they're effectively useless on this type of vehicle, but it's easy to hit one without realizing it when making a turn, then you have to figure out what's wrong, and then figure out how to get it out of manual mode. And the design fails are not limited to the shifter. All the controls in this vehicle are a user interface disaster. After owning mine for more than a year, I still find it awkward, and the touch screen interface for the infotainment and climate control still befuddles me at some times and infuriates me at others. And just to add an extra special touch of irritation, the stereo automatically comes on playing satellite radio whenever the vehicle is started, and there's no way to configure it not to. I've just learned to hit the mute button every time I start the car.
The utter failure of the Jeep's user interface was really pounded home to me when I was loaned a Tesla Model S for a week and a half. The huge touch panel looked alien at first glance, but I mastered most of its functions just by poking at it for about five minutes, and everything was golden after that.
Nope - they have fundamental problems with reliability.
Honda and Subaru disagree with you. Even the new Civic has a CVT now. Subaru's been using them for years.
I can't beat it, but I can get fairly close.
My automatic '09 Honda Fit (pretty much the equivalent of the Tercel hatchback except, IIRC, the Tercel had two doors vs. the Fit's four) regularly gets 35+ MPG. Mind, that's actual use, not the manufacturer's estimated MPG.
-- I have monkeys in my pants.
The easier it is for it to screw up. I remember when the F-16 first came out, there were problems with the fly by wire system. Pilots were OVER correcting their flying, because they were use to the air pushing on the elevators, tail etc to give them feedback. Once they redid them, the problems stopped. Might be the same issue here. People are "use" to the traditional PNDL stick and aren't use to the electronic "no feedback" one. I drive a standard transmission. Have all my life. I always use the PARKING BRAKE when I exit the vehicle, even though I leave it in first gear, even on a flat surface. I don't know, but to me, that's why it is called a PARKING BRAKE. Just a little more safety. My work supplied vehicle is an automatic transmission, but I still use the parking brake out of habit.
We need a government program to buy puppies for all the UI/UX designers.
Then they will have something to fuss over, and will stop breaking our interfaces.
Making an interface that makes it easy to think you are in park when you are not is NOT progress, it is a regression and the market (and lawyers) are busy properly stamping it out.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
This vehicle has an electronic gear selector. You move a lever forward or backward to select the gear.
There is a large display on the instrument cluster that tells you what gear you are in.
We've had this vehicle for 3 years with no issue. It took my wife and I approximately 1 trip to become comfortable with the new selector.
There is no problem with this design - drivers simply need to pay more attention to the act of driving instead of the million other things drivers do when they are behind the wheel.
If you're hitting second gear in 'stop and go' you are doing it wrong.
My guess, you've never driven a stick in your life, but know you don't like them.
I LOL'd, I learned to drive in San Fransisco, more often than not your at a stop sign headed up hill. Second gear was never an option, it was always pull the emergency brake in front of the gear shift (VW) and place it in first gear; when time to continue a matter of engaging the transmission and releasing the brake.
You could be driving a Land Rover
Have gnu, will travel.
For any of you 'gearheads' this is just a reincarnation of the old school ratchet shifter. I had a 'cuda when I was in HS, a loooong time ago, that had this type and a pistol grip shifting knob. It was cool then, not really sure what I think about it now...
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
You get (for as you say little or no money):
A 3/4 ton Dodge (can be wrecked).
A 1/2 ton Dodge.
A Toyota truck or 4 Runner hopefully with solid axle in front.
A Suzuki 4x4.
Then you move the running gear (and brakes) down one truck, being sure to save engine from 3/4 ton dodge before discarding wreck. Throw away the Suzuki axles. 3 pretty capable 4x4s for 5 or 6 grand and a bunch of wrenching and welding. You should be able to take your pick, sell the other two and put money in your pockets.
Unless you're really good at welding drive-shafts, those are going to be a big expense.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Are you sure? My CVT sits below 2000rpm at 70mph. I don't think I've seen a manual gearbox with a low enough ratio to acheive that. Highway driving is where the fuel economy is best with a CVT, as city driving uses a lot of acceleration and idling, where the CVT loses its advantage of keeping the engine in its most efficient range.
They didn't remove the gear indicator... Pay attention to it.
Be fair, nobody really plays off-road in brand new trucks anyhow. By the time they are ready to be banged up, they need work anyhow.
Of course you see the exceptions. YouTube is full of brand new, endoed, F-350s etc. People watched one too many commercials.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Whatever. I know if i place the selector all the way forward i am in park. Asking people to check the dash every time is only fun for people addicted to screens.
Furthermore, it isnt better and they seem to have recognized the problem already and changed the design:
Quietly change it without telling customers why. Where have we heard that before... Luckily no one died at least, but these big boys never admit it when they make a mistake. And those cars are still out there for the next 30 years.
-
Heal and toe under power? Is that some drifter move? It's just a downshift unless you are also braking, hence heal and toe...I don't subscribe to 'never powerbrake', but haven't been in the situation where I was already power braking and decided I needed to grab a gear (without upsetting the balance of the car doing donuts?).
You can argue about weather a paddle shift dual clutch is a manual or an automatic, it's 1% of the market. Most slushboxes remain slushboxes. They are sitting in top gear at a red light and don't even start to downshift until you gas it and intake vacuum drops, computer controlled but still the same old.
Don't even start about engine braking through a torque converter. The one thing no automatic can do is anticipate the corner, even the automatics with shifters take them as 'suggestions'. Shift kits are nothing new.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
steal Chrysler (the company that made Jeeps) from its shareholders
Haha, you capitalist ideologues make me laugh. What was the alternative? Apparently it was "too big to fail", but that was the only other option, which would have put hundreds of people out of work and closed the company for good. Where were the shareholders when the chips were down? Oh that's right, cashing in their shares before they tanked, thus ensuring they tanked.
As for Jeep being a Fiat, so what? Almost every car is made by someone else these days. BMW makes Rolls Royce and Mini, Land Rover is an Indian company, and so on. In fact, the US has owned most of the world's supposedly local brands through Ford and GM for most of the 20th century (and had no compunction in closing down many of them when things got tough, not giving a fuck for the workers of Saab, Vauxhall, Holden, etc). How does it feel now that the boot is on the other foot? Why is it like this? Because capitalism, that's why. If you don't like it, vote for a better system.
They should have replaced the gearshift with Slashdot Beta.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Idiots Unable to Comprehend How to Operate Jeep/Chrysler's New Gearshift are Causing Accidents
See, looks all the better when fixed properly.
In other news, people who can't operate a vehicle, shouldn't.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
Heal and toe under power? Is that some drifter move?
No, you don't get it. You don't have to heel and toe to keep the car stable while making a shift under power. This is useful in turns with both decreasing and increasing radius.
You can argue about weather a paddle shift dual clutch is a manual or an automatic, it's 1% of the market.
It's a growing segment, and it will continue to grow as true manuals continue to fall off.
Most slushboxes remain slushboxes. They are sitting in top gear at a red light and don't even start to downshift until you gas it and intake vacuum drops, computer controlled but still the same old.
Well, no. Nobody has been basing transmission control on vacuum in a very long time. We've been using torque estimation since the nineties.
Don't even start about engine braking through a torque converter.
Why not? It's only 10% less.
The one thing no automatic can do is anticipate the corner, even the automatics with shifters take them as 'suggestions'.
When you are shifting manually, there is no suggestion. It just does what you asked for.
Shift kits are nothing new.
Shift kits don't do what you seem to think. They just change shift characteristics, and they don't exist any more... that is, not for new designs. The new slushboxes are too complex to be operated by a simple control system. You would destroy them doing that.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
If you're hitting second gear in 'stop and go' you are doing it wrong.
Or you have lots of torque, and/or you're driving something supremely old with a granny gear, like a '62 chevy with a 292 straight six. You wouldn't use first in stop and go traffic unless you were pulling a load up a hill.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
As for Jeep being a Fiat, so what?
It has completely ruined the brand for serious off-roading by going all unibody. That's fine, that's their prerogative, but the truth is that while the base vehicle is more capable off-road, they have destroyed the modification potential. Hell, it even makes sense, they're trying to sell more vehicles, not less of them. Focusing on a niche market would be stupid. Doesn't change the fact that their original core audience is going to have to go somewhere else now. They're spending their cachet.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Caddy makes a big expensive sedan with a stick. Pretty much every full-size pickup is still offered with a stick, with at least one of the powertrain options. Minivans though, that's over. There are packaging considerations.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I pull the lever DOWN when I want to put the HAMMER DOWN and I push the lever UP when I want to put the car up! This is my own opinion and does not represent my employer.
Everyone was ready to lambast VW for the diesel emissions scandal.
But, even with plenty of evidence other manufacturers were engaging in similar practices, everything seems to have been forgotten and we're back (mostly) to normal. Even that scandal wasn't caught by standard testing, but by a third-party.
At the end of the day, the manufacturers still do whatever they want and good luck to the consumers. If this kind of thing happens to a relatively expensive vehicle like this, I can't begin to imagine what "innovations" to trim costs on cheaper models might be doing, even though they don't have this kind of press coverage.
"I decided I could write something better than everything out there in two weeks. And I was right." - Linus Torvalds
Of course things are rarely equal. For example (outside of big rig trucks) manual transmissions seem to top out at 6 gears, while most automatics are now at least 7 with some having 8, or even 9 gears. (A far cry from the old 3 speed automatics).
That gives a better chance that the automatic can select a more ideal gear ratio for your speed than the manual. Potentially having the engine at a better RPM could more than offset the parasitic losses of the automatic transmission.
...you wouldn't understand. https://www.google.com/search?... The same thing that I think to myself as I see these cars dead along side of the road.
Old imports got incredible fuel economy. They also weighed as much as a go-kart, had zero safety features, and spewed emissions like they were going out of style (which, in fact, they were). Apples and oranges.
TFA says 400K vehicles, 3 model years, 314 incidents.
Figure 365 days/year, 2 trips/day, we're talking ~ 1 billion trips.
That's an incident rate on the order of 300 per billion trips.
The problem isn't that it's "that hard".
The problem is that this design has pushed the incident rate up to 300/billion.
When you are talking incidents per billion, telling humans to "pay attention" won't help.
The Jeep doesn't have a key as such. It just has a fob that you can keep in your pocket.
If you're the type of person that buys a 3500 pound object that can go 100+ MPH and fail to read the manual which results in the injury of another individual, you're an idiot.
Let me guess. You don't go out of town and rent cars do you? I sometimes do. Rental cars rarely have the manual with them. My most recent rental was in late September and I wish that car had the manual with it. I wanted to connect my iPhone to the car's audio system so I could get Google Maps to give me directions over that instead of the iPhone's own speaker. The problem was that previous owners had filled up the audio system's slots for Bluetooth connectivity and the audio system was so poorly designed (it was a Toyota by the way) that I could not figure out how to delete the old entries. I tried everything I could think of to get the old entries deleted and while I could select them, no button I pushed would actually delete them. I had no choice but to use my phone's speaker which was very much inconvenient.
Macbook Wheel
Automatics also tend to have a heavier transmission. Any extra weight can add to reduced mileage. While I don't see this as much on modern cars, I *have* noticed that the automatics seem to go through brakes faster, which is likely due to a combination of having to brake more while stopping/stopped (transmission pulling forward instead of in neutral like many manuals) and because most people don't gear down on a slope in an auto like they would in a manual.
My main reason is control. My last auto always felt like the car wanted to drive me as soon as I took pressure off the brake. On varying road conditions, being able to pop the clutch has saved my bacon a few times. The more common situation is when I'm just starting to accelerate and push pressure on the gas, and something/somebody darts in front of my car. It's faster to pop the clutch and cease acceleration than release the gas and then brake. This has worked well when some Darwin-award-nonimee racing down a heavy slope on a skateboard (and/or often black clothes) at night runs a red when I'm starting to proceed through a green.
Use the handbrake, thats what its for!
Yes, and they aren't great. Friend of mine is an engineer at a car company - these are experiments to see if the reliability problems can be solved (and the Civic had a CVT ages ago, BTW, a friend drove one). At low enough power they work OK, but a belt is just no substitute for gears for durability and ability to scale up power-wise. Mercedes would love to offer a CVT for the S Class - even smoother power delivery - but it just can't be made to work, at least not yet.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
I'm not saying the differential between the automatic and the manual is all that much these days, it's not, but if you are on the highway the manual is going to be better.
You're 100% wrong, for new cars. Go look at *any* 2015-16 car offered in both manual and automatic and compare the highway fuel economy (and the city economy too, while you're at it). The automatic will *always* beat the manual.
There's a simple reason for this: modern automatics have at least as many speeds as manuals, and their tallest gears are taller than those on the manuals. The manual simply cannot get equivalent fuel economy when it's running the engine 1000rpm higher in 6th gear. And there's a simple reason for this: automatics are close to lugging the engine, but they don't dip low enough to cause problems because they just downshift when they need to, since they can do it in milliseconds. Manual drivers can't, so they make the gear ratios lower so a driver stomping on the gas in 6th when passing on the highway actually gets some throttle response instead of lugging the engine. Also, I think there's an assumption that manual drivers just don't care about fuel economy so they intentionally pick lower ratios (and final-drive ratio) for better performance.
#3: Would-be car thieves that never learned to drive stick will fail at stealing your manual-shift vehicle or just leave your it alone. It's not completely theft proof, but it dwindles the pool tremendously, doubly so if the vehicle in question is a generic vehicle (not something high dollar/rare)
What model year was the CVT car? 150k miles is probably 10 years' worth of use unless you drive a ridiculous amount per year. CVT tech has improved in the last 10-20 years I'm sure, especially if Honda is adopting it.
I easily got 40 MPG. The L20 version I had, with unibody construction, was a 3-door with a 3A-SU engine, roughly one ton (why it came with a 750 kilogram jack, beyond me.) It had good acceleration, too, and able to hit 55MPH in second. It was a speedy little buggy.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
whose driving instructor did NOT tell them to use the parking brake, even with an automatic?
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
Ones I can name right now.
Chevy Corvette Chevy Camaro Chevy SS Ford Mustang Dodge Challenger Dodge Dart Dodge Viper
civic si
miata
subaru brz
porsche 911
porsche cayman
fiat abarth
bmw m series
golf r
cadillac ats-v
jaguar xe
focus rs
mini jcw
aston martin vantage
and, just to round out the list, Ram with the Cummins diesel.
and wrangler rubicon
ironic how many of these manuals are made by fiajeepler, given the topic.
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
Great list! Now try to expand it to include a large sedan, full-size pickup truck or minivan.
ram with the cummins diesel. that's about it.
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
The Cadillac CTS is a mid-size sedan. The large sedan, the XTS, is only available in automatic.
As far as I know, the only full-size truck with a stick is the Cummins <strike>Dodge</strike> Ram (and I didn't realize that was actually still available until other posters pointed it out). I don't think that manual-transmission F-X50s or Chevy/GMC X500s (where X in the range [1, 3]) exist anymore, let alone a manual Toyota Tundra or Nissan Titan.
For minivans, packaging considerations should be surmountable -- the Mazda5 managed it (very nicely, I might add -- Mazda5s are fun to drive), and there's no reason (in theory) that a "5 on the tree" setup couldn't happen. The real reason is that manufacturers think nobody wants it.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
I don't understand why almost no one uses their parking brake when parking. It's designed to prevent exactly these types of situations.
That is the benefit you dolt.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
You need to replaced the bug seats.
Replace them anyhow (Google 'VW bug ejection seats').
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Automatics don't just do what you ask. They won't overrev the motor by downshifting inappropriately (that's a _feature_ for the slushbox drivers that like them). They also won't just shift as soon as you click, sometimes they do sometimes they don't. They will get around to it.
Every slushbox control computer I'm aware of still reads manifold vacuum.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
An 87 already had an oxygen sensor and fuel injection or a computer controlled carb.
The were 95% as clean as any car today. You need to go to pre 1975 to find the really dirty motors.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Last I looked, the service interval for a CVT belt was 50k miles. I doubt he got 150k with the original belt.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Wranglers and Rams still have frames.
Those are the only real 4x4s Fiat/Chrysler make anyhow.
Cherokees etc have always been 'mall utility vehicles'. You basically never see them on trails.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
I've stood behind an 87 tercel and I've stood behind a new toyota. There is a difference you can smell. 1975 was one inflection point in emissions with the addition of catalytic converters, 81 was another point with the addition of three way converters, 94 was another with the Phase 1 standards, etc. The high mileage tercels were still carburetted, and there's a reason nobody tries to meet current emission standards with a carb. The new cars are definitely cleaner, and most of the emissions controls reduce MPG. (Other things have improved MPG, like aerodynamics, variable displacement engines, etc., so it's not a straight line downward.)
The big one was O2 sensors. That car was only slightly dirtier then a new car. Of course the one you behind was likely broken.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'